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Question: Which player in the mix at #9 do you wish most to see as a Knick?
Carter - 4 (40%)
Trae - 2 (20%)
Knox - 0 (0%)
Shai - 0 (0%)
Mikal - 4 (40%)
Sexton - 0 (0%)
BobWill - 0 (0%)
Miles - 0 (0%)
MPJ - 0 (0%)
LW4 - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 10

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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 199468 times)
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bodiddley
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« Reply #17175 on: January 01, 2018, 05:17:57 AM »

Kemba will get paid, but I doubt there's a big market for his services.  So he might get around $18M - $20M, but not a max.  Not that many teams need a starting PG or have the money for a FA.  Besides I just don't see what CHA's game plan is without him.

They have $23M committed to Dwight for next year.
And Zeller has 3/$43 left after this year.
So Willy arrives there to the same C clog as NY.
What's the point?

From NY's perspective, getting a solid PG entering his prime, makes sense.
Can decide about re-upping Kemba after a one year trial (I would).
Who cares if Franc starts in his 3rd year or 5th?
Franc also has size to play SG in a 2 PG alignment.
In which case I'd move Courtly (Sell High) and try to get a real SF (hopefully a switchy 3&D type).

Bottom Line: CHA needs Kemba and doesn't need Knick scraps.

Chip, I'm pretty sure it's been the last 5 or 6 years where the salaries only have to match within 25% (unless I dreamed that).
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bodiddley
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« Reply #17176 on: January 01, 2018, 05:24:53 AM »

OKC?
Lost at Home to DAL.
SMiff Jr. with 11 in the last 1:40.
Westbrook missed a pair of late 3's.
Rustbrook with a big Trip-Dub, PG & Melo shot well.
And still they lost to the Dirks in OKC.

Roberson out -- Huestis started.  O Pts in 19 mins.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #17177 on: January 01, 2018, 11:54:59 AM »

Lakers:  Kuzma (7-20) had 2 shots blocked in the final minute after game was tied at 142.

Randle (available) and Hart had huge games for LAL.
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chipstern
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« Reply #17178 on: January 01, 2018, 12:04:36 PM »

Lakers:  Kuzma (7-20) had 2 shots blocked in the final minute after game was tied at 142.

Randle (available) and Hart had huge games for LAL.

Why would Lakers want to offload Randle? 

He's a load.  Their O'Quinn.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #17179 on: January 01, 2018, 12:25:30 PM »

Final year and they know what he will cost.

Randle/Clarkson package would be nice but we likely dont have the goods for it.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #17180 on: January 01, 2018, 01:28:05 PM »

Randle is interesting.
But inconsistent.
Gets blocked and stripped down low a ton.
Some games or sequences he dominates.
Other time he looks overmatched.
Useful player on a reasonable contract.

Lakes have Kuz and Nance Jr as cheaper options.
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chipstern
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« Reply #17181 on: January 01, 2018, 02:51:15 PM »

Randle is interesting.
But inconsistent.
Gets blocked and stripped down low a ton.
Some games or sequences he dominates.
Other time he looks overmatched.
Useful player on a reasonable contract.

Lakes have Kuz and Nance Jr as cheaper options.

Our own Once & Former Kuz just signed with Olimpia Milano.  

Clarkson's a nice player; his contract is for 12 million.  Same as Lee.  

Younger, but I'd rather keep Lee.  

Courtney's leadership is important to this team going forward.  

Not sure I buy into the BoD sell high paradigm.  Obviously Lee and O'Quinn are being floated out there, as well as they've been playing.  

If by February 15th we look like we are going to miss the playoffs, well, who knows.

But I mean, realistically?  Who has open cap space?  We'd have to take back 12 million, 16 million if you include O'Quinn, and for what?  Are we even going to be able score a second tier PG?  And the likelihood of pulling off a deal for a # 1-13 first rounder is beyond remote.  Why would a lottery team invest in a veteran like Lee?  Obviously a contender might, but are they going to have cap space?  Even an expiring contract and a #1 seems kind of a reach.  

Maybe BoD can re-open his deal for Jaylen Brown, given his superb lines of communication with other GMs.  

O'Quinn has a reasonable contract, and an opt out this summer. 

As a rental for a playoff run, he might fetch a late first rounder, and open up playing time for Wily and Noah, much as I would hate to see him go.  O'Quinn has heart and grit, though if the estimation is that we won't be able to afford him next summer, well, then buy cheap sell high is more applicable to Kyle than Courtney.  And given that Kanter picking his option is NOT A LOCK, we really need to get Wily in the thick of things, defensive shortcomings and all.  I believe Enes WANTS TO BE A KNICK, but who knows.  Money talks. 

I think the most likely move is to promote Frank Ntilikina to a starter, let him take his lumps, drop Sessions, sign Trey Burke, and let him and Jack duke it out for reserve minutes. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 02:59:33 PM by chipstern » Logged
kidcarter8
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« Reply #17182 on: January 01, 2018, 07:20:49 PM »

Sorry, guys

If you want a player in deal, Hernangomez is the key.

Unlatch yourself from this guy - or realize we are what we are - and may downsize if anything for second rounders.
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chipstern
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« Reply #17183 on: January 01, 2018, 10:31:44 PM »

Sorry, guys

If you want a player in deal, Hernangomez is the key.

Unlatch yourself from this guy - or realize we are what we are - and may downsize if anything for second rounders.

W-R-O-N-G

Think again.  

Wily is young, gifted and cheap.  

Making a piddling 1.5 Million Per Season through 2020 with no options.  

Is also KP's best friend on the team, going back to their Euro-League bonds.  

Downsize for second rounders?

Heh.  

Why would we do that?  

We [Phil] gave up two #2 picks to draft Wily.  

Read my lips.  

Unless someone knicks, er, KNOCKS us out with a deal, Wily is not going anywhere.  

Plenty of room for growth. 

Kyle AND Enes can both opt out this summer.  

We could lose one...we could lose both.  

Trade Wily?

Heh Heh.

Which would leave us with naught but Noah.  

Of course, we could be looking at KP as our 5 going forward, but I believe the Knicks (and KP) view Porzingis more on the order of a Dirk Nowitzki, than a Rick Smits.  

I mean, I recognize that you are a lot smarter than any of us, but we've yet to see you present a compelling, realistic scenario for us going forward with a garage sale.  
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 10:42:11 PM by chipstern » Logged
bodiddley
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« Reply #17184 on: January 02, 2018, 12:05:08 AM »

Wily is young, gifted and cheap.  
Is also KP's best friend on the team, going back to their Euro-League bonds.

Well, that was my reasoning why we wouldn't cut Kuz . . .
So I settled on Dotson.

As for Courtly, he's 32 and turns 33 before the start of next year. So his timeline doesn't matchup with KZ, Franco, TimJr.
Sure you need some vets to balance things.
But we've got Noah, Jack, KO, Kanter.
I'm wary of a guy playing his best ball at 32.

While it's worked so far, I'd rather have a genuine SF than a second SG masquerading as an SF.  SF is a key defensive position, if the guy is able to switch up and down (a la Jaylen, Dray, Covington, etc)

Courtly has already regressed after a hot start. 
NOV: 49% FG; 48% on 3's; 3.9 REB, 3.2 Ass
DEC: 43% FG; 38% on 3's; 3.1 REB, 2.5 Ass
Now, Lee played better when Tim Jr was out there, and is better suited as a 3rd option, so it's probably best to wait til Tim is back.
Courtly took 3 more FG's per game with Tim Jr.s out, with an efficiency
drop.
I was surprised to see that Lee's #'s are basically the same as last year, except for 2 more shots per game, and slight upticks in assists, turnovers, FTA's, and a much better FT% (95%!).  Lee has been more aggressive and involved, and has been more useful this season.  But next year he's age 33, year after 34.  = Decline.

I'm not desperate to move Courtly, but I'd certainly gauge what he is worth.  And see if it's possible to snag a younger SF.  I see it as the smart long-term move -- if a good return could be found.

I'd be willing to trade Willy, but it seems like the opposite -- a Sell Low moment on a young player.  Willy seems like a very good sweetener in a trade, but on his own likely fetches little.  There's a C glut out there, and most teams want a defensive Big who can switch out to the perimeter, bonus if they can bang in a 3.  But Willy has a David Lee game.





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bodiddley
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« Reply #17185 on: January 02, 2018, 12:20:34 AM »

Okay, my Insane Deal O' the Day:

Knicks trade:
Courtly
KOQ
Willy
(and if they want, one of Baker/Lance/Beaswax)

FOR
.
.
.
Paul George + whoever they want to drop to make roster spots:
(Collison, Dakari, T Ferg all cheap -- Arbines/Singler and we add in Baker)

OKC is sputtering and likely not going far in these playoffs, and PG won't re-sign to stick around with Russ "One Ball and It's Mine" Westbrook.  So they bail on PG, and add a mess of role players, also wisely bumping Roberson from the starting lineup.

Westbrook - Courtly - Melo - Grant - Adams
Felton - Roberson - Huestis - Pat Pat - KOQ
Gives them more depth and better shooting.
KOQ can play while PatPat sits and gets healthy

Knix would get a studly SF who can be the 2nd option, and switch across multiple positions.  The risk is PG not resigning.  But you'd think he'd be interested in a NY team on the rise.  I guess have to get some assurance from PG's camp that he'd be up for sticking with the Knix longterm.  And not dead-set on LA.

So ... it's a Big Gamble for both teams, which is why it is unlikely to materialize.
 
OKC doesn't really have a backup plan if PG leaves for nothing after this year.  So we give them a boatload of role players to surround Westbrook and make up a bench.
NYK gets the best player in the trade by far and just has to convince him to re-sign.  With PG, NYK easily makes the playoffs, and becomes interesting.  We move up into that WAS/DET/MIL second level tier.

Jack - Tim Jr - PG - KZ - Kanter
Franc - Baker - McD - Beez - Noah
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 12:59:00 AM by bodiddley » Logged
facilitatorn
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« Reply #17186 on: January 02, 2018, 12:51:08 AM »

That doesn’t really seem like something OKC would be very likely to do.

I’m still chasing Harkless, who I see developing into a 3rd or 4th option with desirable defensive characteristics, so if we’re shifting pieces as important as Courtney and trusting Timmy and Dotson to man the SG spot with help from Frank, here’s a deal that might help both teams

Courtney & Willy for Moe Harkless & Ed Davis

We’d have

Kanter O’Quinn Noah
KP Beasley Davis
Harkless McBuckets Thomas
Hardaway Dotson Baker
Frank Jack Sessions

Davis expires after this year and could be a nice fit next to KP defensively and by having another long quick guy on the floor. We’d be giving up Lee’s steady effectiveness and nack for timely plays and Willy’s potential for length and athleticism on the wing and in the frontcourt. 
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« Reply #17187 on: January 02, 2018, 01:29:16 AM »

didn't George actually says the lakers were his desired location?


   
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bodiddley
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« Reply #17188 on: January 02, 2018, 10:22:21 AM »

Yes, indeed.
And OKC has to be getting somewhat nervous.
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chipstern
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« Reply #17189 on: January 02, 2018, 11:48:42 AM »

Yes, indeed.
And OKC has to be getting somewhat nervous.

First.

Why would OKC do this trade?

Secondly, you trade BOTH O'Quinn AND Wily, leaving us with Noah as our only back-up center, and with NOTHING if Kanter bolts in the summer of 2018.

Who could possibly argue with logic like that? 
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