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Exiles of the New York Times
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Poll
Question: Who should be cut?
Jack - 0 (0%)
Sessions - 10 (50%)
Noah - 4 (20%)
Kuz - 1 (5%)
Beasley - 4 (20%)
Dotson - 1 (5%)
Total Voters: 20

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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 120085 times)
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bodiddley
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Bring it to Jerome


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« Reply #14895 on: June 20, 2008, 12:18:55 PM »

jpd, sounds like a great experience.
I was trying to steer my family towards a summer vacation in Turkey, but didn't get much traction.  In fairness, they were partly worried about it being too hot in July/Aug.  [My second choice, Ethiopia, was dismissed out of hand].

I feel a little guilty because the Euro tourney is on here every night and I've only watched a few minutes at most.  I'm pretty much down to hoops and boxing when it comes to sports I watch and follow.

I'm surprised that Westbrook has become something of the consensus.
Randolph sounds more iffy and further away.
Gordon sounds relatively solid.  Have heard that he can play defense.
DJ seems like a wild card.
Even Joe Alexander sounds pretty impressive.

Moving down, to get some cap & tax relief, wouldn't be bad if we could still get one of those players.  Just need to do the homework and feel confident about who can make the leap.
We need a 10 year starter, if not a star.

For the record, I'd prefer keeping the #6, and tabbing Westbrook (if Mayo is gone).
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14896 on: June 20, 2008, 12:23:20 PM »

First off, if Mayo or Bayless drops to 6 I think it is clear the team doesn't trade down unless there is a sweetheart deal.

Secondly, some players might conceivable fall to, say, 12 or 13, if we were considering a trade down: Randolph is the most likely bet, but Alexander and maybe even Gallinari if New Jersey and Milwaukee pass. Others I just cannot see lasting that long: Gordon, Lopez, Augustin and given the recent hype, Westbrook.

So if it's Randolph you want, you may be able to pick him, dump Jeffries and nab a second-round pick in the process.

Risky business though.

Bo - you should feel guilty.

Ike -interesting stuff, thanks for sharing. What drives a native New Yorker to give up on the city, by the way?
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #14897 on: June 20, 2008, 12:25:59 PM »

Not by draft position - strictly talent

http://sports.yahoo.com/s/nbadraft;_ylt=AhdhEUYwkP4qCG0Ucbwxucy8vLYF
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bodiddley
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Bring it to Jerome


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« Reply #14898 on: June 20, 2008, 12:29:25 PM »

Weems and Forbes upped their stock a lot in Orlando.
And Bill Walker might also drop into the 2nd round.
Somebody else will slip.

We can always invite Hill to our summer league.
I think we are at 15 now.
So someone needs to be moved to make room for our draft pick.
I'd guess we set Jerome adrift.
Mardy or Balk could be thrown into trades.
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bodiddley
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Bring it to Jerome


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« Reply #14899 on: June 20, 2008, 12:45:04 PM »

I like trying to imagine how some of the players will fit in to a new team.
For instance, everyone has talked about Hibbert to Utah.  Makes ssense.
But the Yahoo mock has Hibbert to SA, which also intrigues.
And Chalmers to NO would be perfect for them (if he's available).

Seems noone is sure where Arthur, Speights or Batum will go.
Though the consensus seems to have Donte Green ahead of most (all?) of them.
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14900 on: June 20, 2008, 01:53:42 PM »

I think we are at 15 now.
So someone needs to be moved to make room for our draft pick.
I'd guess we set Jerome adrift.
Mardy or Balk could be thrown into trades.

Have 13 signed. Fred Jones and RanMo FAs. But there will be trades, and Jerome is likely to be waived.
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tomverve
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« Reply #14901 on: June 20, 2008, 01:55:17 PM »

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-080620

Hollinger's regression analysis suggests Anthony Randolph will be a bust. Even if the system is only of heuristic use, such an extremely low ranking is a big red flag. Hope we don't take a flyer on that one.
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nagel100
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I want Westbrook!!!


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« Reply #14902 on: June 20, 2008, 02:22:12 PM »

tom,

that is very interesting.

the Love info is worth looking at.

He says he is the second coming of brad Miller.

only issue is Miller is really a legit 5 at 7 Foot and Love is really 6'9" if you are generous.  We already have an under-sized 4 in Lee.

that being said here is a comment  worth reading

Love, I think, has an All-Star skill set. The only question about Kevin is his explosiveness around the rim and his ability to run the court and play with the better athletes. Now, to say that, he’s always played well against athletes and certainly his combine scores are impressive. So maybe Kevin’s got us tricked and he’s a better athlete than we realize. Strength goes a long way and both these players have great physical strength. I think that is one of their greatest attributes. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Kevin Love in an All-Star game by any means.”

“I think both of these players ( Love and Mayo)are going to do everything that they can do to be the best players that they can be. They have great work ethics. They’re serious about the game and I think they want to great. They don’t want to just play, they want to dominate and be great. I think the deciding factor will be the fit – which player lands in the best system for his skills and his ability and has teammates who can compliment what he can do.”

-Jerry Meyer, National Analyst, Rivals.com

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nagel100
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I want Westbrook!!!


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« Reply #14903 on: June 20, 2008, 02:23:20 PM »

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/
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KBY
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« Reply #14904 on: June 20, 2008, 02:35:38 PM »

Ike,

sniff sniff, I'm hurt, sniff sniff  Wink

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Germany but Berlin is a great city, no matter if it's for shopping, culture, clubbing, haute cuisine, you'll find something for your enjoyment

As for moving, before leaving the states ever tried going to San Francisco? That city and Vancouver are absolute outstanding but different taste I guess.
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14905 on: June 20, 2008, 02:42:54 PM »

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=DraftRater-080620

Hollinger's regression analysis suggests Anthony Randolph will be a bust. Even if the system is only of heuristic use, such an extremely low ranking is a big red flag. Hope we don't take a flyer on that one.

Wow Tom, sobering stuff. Thanks
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chipstern
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« Reply #14906 on: June 20, 2008, 03:36:47 PM »

Would be a slamming fit for the Blazers, but I would be stunned to see DJ Augustin fall past Indiana, who have tired of Jamal Tinsley's comic impressions of Moises Alou...

I do not agree that Westbrook is a second tier talent.  At all.

In confrontations with Mayo and Bayless, he proved a relentless defender.  He has incredible hops and athleticism, tremendous competitive intensity, can get to the rack and is an incredibly committed defender.  Also seems like a really good character guy.  And draft workout reports indicate his jumper is better than advertised and improving.  Old schoolers will remember that Clyde's offense did not emerge over night, but that the other fundamentals were there.   

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/1968.html

As you can see, in Clyde's rookie season, he split time with Howard Komives and his FT % was on .655, which steadily improved over each season.  Again, start with solid fundamentals, and build from there.  Westbrook has got them...

Would we get an immediate lift from Westbrook in terms of W-L?  Hard to say.  But I think he has a Walt Frazier-styled upside, comes prepared to do all the dirty work, and lacks only flight time to develop offense. 

Also, much as I like DJ, the thought of Westbrook getting after Nate, Jamal and Steph in practice (especially N8) brings a smile to me chubby baby face. Defense is contagious, but you need someone to set the tone.  N8 with this athleticism in particular could raise his defensive profile considerably. 

Westbrook has PG skills, but Collison was THE PG.  Again, more flight time. 

I think Bayless is closer to D'Antoni's ideal, and that Mayo has more offensive upside (also a committed defender), but Westbrook is a competitor.  And would make a lovely consolation prize for all those still beating their breasts as to how we could've lost more games (I fail to see how we could have tanked more thoroughly than we actually did). 

Tell you what, as far as getting out in the open floor and RUNNING, Russell Wetbrook can motor, and while he doesn't have the handle that DJ has, he seems (seems) to have a solid package of skills and a positive spirit, and boy, do we need some spirit. 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 03:45:00 PM by chipstern » Logged
thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14907 on: June 20, 2008, 03:59:39 PM »

Westbrook can also finish in traffic. Not at the prolific rate Eric Gordon does, but he's good nonetheless.

But my favourite Westbrook trait is that he has that Rajon Rondo-type ability to get his hands on loose balls in the air and on the ground. At least from the couple games I saw. That can't be taught. And Rondo had that at Kentucky even in his last year when he couldn't hit the side of the barn from the perimeter.

What I did not ever see is proof that he manage call an effective floor game at the college level. Let alone the NBA level. He has all the other tools to succeed as a point in the NBA. But vision is, arguably, the most important trait.

Does Westbrook have it? A plurality of this forum appears convinced he does. I'm convinced enough to spend the 12th pick on him...but am I sixth-pick-convinced?

I'm sixth-pick-convinced Eric Gordon and Kevin Love are excellent fits for the D'Antoni offense and will contribute to the win column as early as 2009-10.
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14908 on: June 20, 2008, 04:08:58 PM »

Bo - you asked a month back for people to post their picks for draft busts and steals. I'll do you one better: here is my entire draft board. I adhere strictly to the Best Player Avaliable approach in general, buy my two exceptions are if you are a contending team and you need a specific skill set (if picking outside the lottery...anyhow, not the Knicks), or if the player you are about to pick in the lottery causes a redundancy with your franchise player and the two cannot play together at the same time (again, not the Knicks since we haven't had a franchise player this decade). A trade is preferable to a reach in either instance.

I used the tier system. So you draft by need/fit within a tier, but the tier's are based on talent. Augustin fits a need more than Eric Gordon, but I have Gordon ranked two tiers higher. Or, the fact that we could use a big man to off-set to forthcoming Zach Randolph trade would not be enough to make me pass on Brandon Rush in favour of Robin Lopez.



Top tier
Rose/Beasley

Thrilled if they fall to us
Mayo/Bayless

The back-up plan
Gordon/Love

Guys to target if we trade down in the lottery
Westbrook/Gallinari/Alexander

Good lottery picks
Augustin/B.Lopez/Arthur/Randolph

Top 20-picks
Ajinca/Koufos/Speights/Jordan/Rush/Douglas-Roberts/Batum/Hendrix/Hibbert

Late first rounders
Greene/Asik/Hickson/R.Lopez/C.Lee

Second-round gems
Chalmers/B.Walker/J. Thompson/Ibaka

Other second round possibilities
Hardin/McGee/DJ White/Pekovic/Anderson/D. Jackson/Dorsey/Weaver/Foster/Lofton

Don't see an nba future
Forbes/Jawai/Kaun/J. Crawford/Roby/Jefferson


So I guess when compared to their "normal" draft positions, I have B.Lopez, Jordan, Greene, Speights, McGee, Jawai, and Jefferson lower than most. I would specifiy McGee, Jordan and Jefferson as the three about whom I am the most sceptical.

In terms of players I have rated higher than their normal draft positions: Westbrook, Rush, Ajinca, Hibbert, Douglas-Roberts, Hendrix, Hickson, Lee, Asik and Walker. If any of those dudes drop to the second round, Walsh needs to start spending some of Dolan's money.
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theng
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« Reply #14909 on: June 20, 2008, 04:16:36 PM »

nagel, chip:

IMO, the 1st tier talents cutoff is at 2nd....followed by "almost 1st" tier talent at 3rd and 4th. That is why columnists and sports writers have so much problem getting a consensus on the rest of the draft order after 2nd pick.

No matter how you slice it, Westbrook is a 2nd tier talent...at best!

And comparing him to Rajon Rondo definitely does not help.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2008, 04:20:55 PM by theng » Logged
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