Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Question: Which player in the mix at #9 do you wish most to see as a Knick?
Carter - 4 (40%)
Trae - 2 (20%)
Knox - 0 (0%)
Shai - 0 (0%)
Mikal - 4 (40%)
Sexton - 0 (0%)
BobWill - 0 (0%)
Miles - 0 (0%)
MPJ - 0 (0%)
LW4 - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 10

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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 200675 times)
carlos123 (+ 1 Hidden) and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
KBY
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« Reply #14940 on: June 22, 2008, 12:27:42 PM »

a) Dutch usually lose in crunch time eventhough they played better, unfortunate but has happened quite a few times. This time the Russians played better and indeed with more belief in themselves. That said, our defense was running late constantly which is a recipe for disaster.

b) All series, shows, movies unless it's for kids is subtitled.

c) sports commentary, NBA in particular, is original when you catch/record the live showing. The rerun is usually with Dutch commentary. Most annoying though of the sports1 guys is that they for some reason assume you haven't seen or read anything about the NBA since the last broadcast and have the need to update the viewer while not giving enough attention to what's actually going on on the court.

European sports events gets dutch broadcasters, but you can flip to the bbc or eurosport and try your luck.
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tomverve
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« Reply #14941 on: June 22, 2008, 01:27:43 PM »

TomV - My issue with Costas is that he is not a hoops fan. Watch him talk about beisbol and he knows what he's talking about and he does it with passion. When he talked about basketball, it was forced, there was zero insight, and there was no connection with the game. You can tell guys like Breen and Marv and Kevin Harland love the game.

I can understand those who find Scott's schtick gimmicky, but I find most hosts staid. They approach sports as if it were a news-magazine (superficially in terms of substance, and without a connection to those involved), whereas Scott approaches it like my friends do (and I do) - a very fun game enjoyed most when taken incredibly seriously. I find him better on ESPN than on ABC.

To me Costas came off as a bit corny and deliberate at times, but also with some elements of elegance. I don't know his baseball work as a point of comparison but he seemed excited enough when he called the games. And what flaws he did have, for me, didn't totally distract me from his positives. On the whole that's already enough to rank him above most commentators.

I can't stand Breen anymore because his cloying puritanical attitude. In between defending every ref's call and tisk-tisk scolding a player for immature conduct, he may as well remind all the kiddies to eat their greens and wash behind the ears. And everytime there's a scrum for the ball we have to endure Mikey launching into his 5 minute monologue about how you can jump on a guy's head for a loose ball without getting called for a foul. Another pet peeve is he often says a player "rushed" a shot when they missed, when in fact the shot wasn't rushed at all-- it just missed. I guess I'm just way too overexposed to Breen. But then, I never got annoyed by Marv once.

Same goes for a lot of commentators. Tom Hammond used to call all those Knicks games in the late 90s after Marv shamefully got the axe. He was just OK, and his tendency towards levity that came off as goofiness didn't help (also didn't help that he was often paired with Bill Walton). Mike Tirico is another common one lately, but he's just more boring than anything else. Costas wasn't perfect but still seems superior to a lot of the dreck they turn out to call games.

As for insight, I don't really count on any commentators to deliver insight. Kind of like counting on a cashier for sage life advice; it's just not what they do. When they do it's a bonus, and uniformly it comes from color commentary from former coaches. JVG and Hubie Brown being the best IMO. Used to like Doug Collins a bit too, but he became far too repetitive in the end. Yeah yeah, closing out quarters Doug, we get it.
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tomverve
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« Reply #14942 on: June 22, 2008, 01:34:12 PM »

Kevin Harland I like though. His only problem was he used to get inappropriately excited at times, though he's cut down on that. One time long ago I remember him exclaiming in that excited tone of his that Sherman Douglas was one of the best shooting guards in the NBA.

Ian Eagle is another quality guy. Hope ABC or TNT picks him up.
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14943 on: June 22, 2008, 03:43:05 PM »

Well, we'll have to disagree on Costas. I always resented that he called Jordan's "last" shot on Byron Russell in game 6 versus the Jazz. I needed to hear Marv on that one, saying "Michael Jordan with the dagger!".

Quick fact: Chuck D of Public Enemy lists Marv Albert as one of his top vocal influences. Says Marv's flow as an announcer was monotone but effective and Chuck D based part of his cadence on Marv.

My favourite colour guy, even more than JVG, is Bill Raftery. He's peerless. Does CBS college (#2 behind the that curmudgeon Billy Packer). Raftery also does some NBA studio analysis, so I bet he could be lured over to the NBA, and he'd add an air of elegance.

Raftery always has great lines (like accusing a player of setting up a picnic when he's 3 in the key)...I guess some could find them annoying, but I love them. I also like that he challenges himself to see how fast he can say man-to-man.
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chipstern
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« Reply #14944 on: June 22, 2008, 05:21:36 PM »

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Eight-Rules-for-Draft-Night-Success-Let-History-Guide-2934/

Thought of you guys when I glanced at this epistle on DRAFT EXPRESS. 

Just wanted you to know I am not completely insensitive to your arguments...only slightly insensitive...

Enjoy.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 05:23:14 PM by chipstern » Logged
carlos123
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« Reply #14945 on: June 22, 2008, 05:57:55 PM »

Q/

Where's Carlos?


A/

Watching Spain eliminate Italy. We'll have to avenge the Dutch now against Russia, though I doubt our friends from the Netherlands would appreciate it. They only hate the germans more than us, but we like them. KBY, I know we were awful, but come on, that was more than 3 centuries ago. Anyway, I'm counting the days before I get back to the city.
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #14946 on: June 22, 2008, 08:37:57 PM »

Hey Carlos - in my best kidcarter voice:

CASILLLLLLLLLAAAAAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #14947 on: June 22, 2008, 09:00:30 PM »

Heh

Didnt really have to save that one.

Congrats to the Spaniards.  19 straight without a loss?  Pretty damn good.
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chipstern
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« Reply #14948 on: June 23, 2008, 01:25:31 AM »

I'd way rather have Gallinari than Randolph (we already have one Randolph, why tempt fate), and for that matter Wilson Chandler better come back ready to be at least as good as Joe Alexander is going to be. 

We're already kinda crowded at SF, still, I wish you could genetically graft Chandler onto Balkman onto Jeffries, and somehow add a skilled SF.  Wilson had better come ready to rumble...I hope he is healthy enough for summer league--it's been two months.  But I am envious of Milwaukee getting Alenxander...Skiles will have a nice frontline with Alexander, Yi and Bogut (with Villinueva and Mason coming off the pine). 







Tell you what: I am at peace with the sixth pick.  Mayo, Bayless or Westbrook are going to fall right into our laps to Captain the Good Ship D'Antoni. 



But for all the times I've evoked Walt Frazier, the most logical parallel, and why I am excited about Russell Westbrook (and Kiid is going to chuckle about now) is...well, think a more skilled, athletic Charlie Ward   

Mayo and Bayless come with more refined/varied offensive games, but the fundamnntal tempo and intensity at which Westbrook plays is really pretty well-suited to what we've got and what we need--especially on defense.  We don't need Marcus Haynes at PG, what we need is a steady hand on the rudder who can create some drama in the paint, and kick out to Jamal and N8...and Steph (hey...motherfucker is still a Knick), or work with big men trailers Lee, Randolph, Curry and Chandler. 

A lot of us are conflicted because we need everything.  But Steph is transitting, and the idea of Westbrook competing against Jamal, N8 and Steph in practice (especially NATE), like lockdown in Rikers, does mke my skin tingle.  No Westbrook doesn't have the freakyscary vision and intutition that Rose has, or the bottomless well of offensive options May and Bayless offer. 

But that blue collar Charlie Ward 'tude (and let's give some props to feisty Chris Childs, even though Ernie might've pushed harder for Reggie or Timmy), that defensive edge Riley and Van Gundy inculcated...but with an athletic mojo those gritty old school Knicks didn't have.

Hey maybe I am wrong and PJ Carlissimo decides he'd rather have Westbrook than Bayless, or Minny and Memphis decide to go big with Love or Randolph or Gallinari or Lopez (who figures to otherwise free fall right into Larry Brown's lap). 

Or Donnie pulls off some sort of heretofore unimagined Trifecta of wheelingdealing involving the sixth pick. 

Hey we had First-tier talent/tear-stained brain of Stephon Marbury. 

The Second-tier package of talent (competive character and sheer athleticism)that Westrook embodies not only looks safe but smart...even propitious. 



Sometimes you don't get what you want, but you get what you need. 
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 01:28:36 AM by chipstern » Logged
chipstern
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« Reply #14949 on: June 23, 2008, 02:00:15 AM »



So, does George Carlin get a state funeral like Tim Russert? 

God's speed. 

And how about Russert's kid? 

Carlin only 71. 
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chipstern
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« Reply #14950 on: June 23, 2008, 02:41:30 AM »

Latest conjecture over on Jonathan Givony's Draft Express site have a revised 1-15:

Bulls: Rose

Heat: Beasley

Wolves: Mayo

Sonics: Lopez

Grizzlies: Love

Knicks: Bayless

Clippers: Gordon

Bucks: Alexander

Bobcats: Westbrook

Nets: Gallinari

Pacers: Augustin

Kings: Randolph

Blazers: Ajinca

Warriors: Green

Suns: Rush

Nets [21]: Mareese Speights

Interesting. 

Like I said, if any of 3-5 go for the big over a guard, Mayo or Bayless is going to fall to #6. 

I'm at peace with Westbrook or Bayless.  What's not to like? 

Go Knicks!
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KBY
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« Reply #14951 on: June 23, 2008, 03:57:59 AM »

lol Carlos,
I don't think there's any bad blood between the Dutch and the Spanish. Although I'm doubting whether it's the Spanish or the French who are responsible for changing the Dutch flag. It was orange (last name royalty), white and blue.

We don't even hate the Germans anymore, not that much anyway.
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KBY
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« Reply #14952 on: June 24, 2008, 05:10:27 AM »

knicks knacks

Quote
Three days and counting

It's Monday and a little more than 72 hours until the draft _ and there's more chatter surrounding your Knickerbockers.

Today's, courtesy of ESPN.com (which, in case you missed it, didn't get it right when it reported Carmelo Anthony and his agent planned to talk to the Nuggets about a possible trade out of Denver) comes this possible scenario:

David Lee and Malik Rose to Memphis for the Grizzlies' 5th overall pick plus the two years and $13 million remaining on Brian Cardinal's contract.

No confirmation or denial from either side on it at this point.

Which would mean the Knicks would have the No. 5 and 6 picks to spend, deal, whatever. But no D-Lee. Plus two years worth of a guy even the Griz don't want.

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts on that and the following theories as to how Thursday will play out for The Don and Co. if they simply spend the No. 6 pick:

We continue to hear two things:

1. They've fallen back in love with Danilo Gallinari and are going to grab him, no matter who else is available.

2. They hope to end up with one from among a trio of guards: O.J. Mayo, Jerryd Bayless, Russell Westbrook, in that order. Mayo will likely be gone by No. 6, Bayless looked to be a lock for Seattle at No. 4, but now there's talk the Sonics may move up to grab Mayo or just pick Westbrook.

A corollary to this second theory is that The Don will trade down and draft Texas point guard D.J. Augustine.

It's all quite fluid and might not be determined until teams draft and trade above them. And if they somehow make the Lee deal, they could conceivably do both things, Gallinari and a guard.

But as one general manager said the other day, much of this is just the standard pre-draft talk.

Except, two years ago, that talk ended up with five of the top eight players drafted getting traded on draft night.

So strap on your seatbelt. And pass along your thoughts.
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chipstern
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« Reply #14953 on: June 24, 2008, 06:48:54 AM »

That's an interesting scenario, which Isola commented in the News as well...

Lee + Rose for the #5 + Brian Cardinal.  Who was the proponent of the BC trade: the Biz, Kam...I can't remember. 

Well, I would feel a lot better about his trade if it somehow included Kyle Lowry...but...and you all know how much I love Lee...but...

And this might surprise y'all, but yeah, while I don't know how much creedence I would put in this  rumor, I would sign off on this...

Surprise...

Having the #5 and the #6 would offer the Knicks a whole lot of options, including trading down or trading up...

Or keeping the pick and seeing who falls...

Again, the Wolves and Seattle are the wildcards. 

If the Wolves took Mayo and Seattle took Bayless that would mean the Knicks could pick UCLA team mates Kevin Love and Russell Westrbook.  Much as I love Lee's rebounding and intensity,he still has a ways to go to be a consistent outside shooter, gets his shots blocked too much inside...could he improve?  Damn right he could. 

Cardinal could hit the long three once upon a time, but he is pretty rusty at this point.  As cap fodder, he might even be an effective role player off of the bench.  Still, that's a stretch. 

But Love is pretty damn intriguing: a great passer and shooter, with a long-range and midrange game, and can get his shot off inside.  I think concerns about his "athelticism" are way overrated.  He has an intellectual grasp of the game an plays hard; he can board and he can be effective inside or outside--which means he could play with Eddy or Zach (at least in the short term). 

And at #6 Knicks could then take Westbrook (or Alexander or Lopez or Gallinari and leverage those picks to squeeze something out of Milwaukee who are keen on Alexander, Charlotte who would certainly like Lopez to pair with Okafor and the Nets who seem to like Gallinari). 

Another scenario. 

McHale supposedly loves Love, and Seattle might be inclined to take Lopez over Bayless.  Or Westrbook for that matter. 

Which means that both Mayo and Bayless could drop in our laps.  We could take one or both, or some combo of them and Westbrook, or take Mayo at # 5 and pick Gallinari or Alexander at #6, either to keep or to trade.  Would the Nets consider some package where they give up the #10 and #21?  Then we could possibly take a flyer on projects like DJ Augustin and JaVale McGee, giving us a pure point and a potential shot bocker off of the bench. 

All interesting scenarios, and having the #5 and #6 would certainly give us a lot more options.  And maybe buy a late first rounder? 

Wolves and Sonics would have some interesting choices. 

If the grab Mayo and Bayless, I would be happy to snarf up Love and Westbrook. 

Anyway, IT IS JUST A FUCKING RUMOR, and if something were to go down, I doubt that we would be hearing about it in advance.  But an interesting notion. 
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KBY
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« Reply #14954 on: June 24, 2008, 07:36:05 AM »

Well it's just a rumour and it's probably bogus but there are three things I rather like about it

a) the willingness to take on any contract if it lands us an asset, as long as it ends in two years.

now that's what I'm talking about, love this angle. Who cares what our cap will look like in the upcoming two years, as long as there's a clear set point for the cap flexibility. Use the deep pockets of the Knicks, let Cardinal ride the pine who cares, he might even be useful but that's not the point.

b) we will sorely miss Lee BUT he is in his last year of the rookie contract

as long as you're not winning anything, it's better to have a rookie scale contract then anything else. Think about what number you'd need to resign Lee as yet another contract you'd need to subtract in order to achieve the goal of capspace for the 2010/2011 fa Walhalla.

c) options

having the 5th and 6th is a fast revamp of the team.


Donnie will still have to move Curry or Zbo before the season starts but it will look a lot different by this move.
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