Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Movie Club  (Read 21969 times)
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barton
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« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2007, 11:32:41 AM »

TBYoOL is a great film, would be glad to see it again.  Or a Lynch film (can it be post-Ehead??).  Or a film by Kubrick, Wilder, Hitchcock, Huston, Kieslowski, Altman, Antonioni, Bunuel...to name a few guys who haven't let me down too much.

Jbottle needs to be read with the notion in mind that he might be joking.  And it's hard to be funny if you are constrained by propriety and political correctness at every turn.  I think we need to allow everyone some cave-ins in the creative mining expedition called "humor."

 
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2007, 11:32:58 AM »

American cinema in that era (including Wyler with The Best Years of Our Lives, Jezebel, Wuthering Heights....epics all) certainly had a different feel than Post WWII German cinema.  After the war, many German films were confiscated the American Office of War Information and replaced with films whose aim was to make the German people feel responsible for the atrocities committed during the war. After the propaganda phase, most German films that were accepted for showing were films that showed Germany as a nation in physical and moral ruins..  The film industry didn't begin to recover until the 60's.

Here's an example of what the OWI was looking for...one of the first movies in production in Germany post-war.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.filmportal.de/df/3b/Uebersicht,,,,,,,,BFA5C6B00A76445DBD4D7145886FD86A,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DUnd%2B%25C3%25BCber%2Buns%2Bder%2BHimmel%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

« Last Edit: September 14, 2007, 11:34:45 AM by Lhoffman » Logged
Dzimas
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« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2007, 11:55:24 AM »

You are right, barton. 

Hoffman, I think it would be interesting to look at some of the Hitchcock movies of that era, Foreign Correspondent, Saboteur, and Lifeboat coming to mind, not to mention, Carol Reed's The Third Man, particularly in the way these films viewed the Germans.  As I remember, Hitchcock got into some hot water over Lifeboat.   I hadn't realized that Lifeboat was based on a story by John Steinbeck.  I think we might even lure whiskeypriest into the discussion if we take on The Third Man, which Criterion has been so nice to restore for us.
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jbottle
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« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2007, 01:58:02 PM »

There was nothing homophobic about my ravings last night, migh've been a return of near incoherency-boy, which I generally regret, but the effort, however weak, to have a good time is the general aim.

Tarantino, if those representations about his comment on cinema today are correct, seems headed in the direction of Peter Bogdanovich, bloviating film critic who also made two good movies.  I hope not for QT, because RD and PF are two of my favourtite movies ever.  I'll even give him "Jackie Brown," which I thought was average but the consensus is that it was good, so, sure. 

Not having made a good movie in ten years doesn't leave somebody with his talent much credibility about film storytelling, and sound more like the coked-up loudmouth who spews bullshit on Conan every now and then.  But I don't care if he's an asshole if he makes good stories, but he should practice what he preaches.

The "Kill Bill" films are terrible, and what might've seemed like an okay adventure to do once, by the second one it's trainwreck "throwing good money after bad," if that's the return to auteurism, they can have it.  The Coen Bros. seem to have no trouble making studio friendly fare and then doing something more daring.  Maybe that's the sort of storytelling QT is so envious of not doing.  It would put his comments into a reasonable refrain anyway.  Too bad.
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2007, 02:06:11 PM »

“One never knows when the blow may fall.
When I saw Rollo Martins first I made this
note on him for my security police files:
“In normal circumstances a cheerful fool.
Drinks too much and may cause a little
trouble. Whenever a woman passes raises
his eyes and makes some comment, but
I get the impression that really he’d rather
not be bothered. Has never really grown
up and perhaps that accounts for the way
he worshipped Lime.”

—Graham Greene, The Third Man

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“Other people's obsessions
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madupont
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« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2007, 04:18:46 PM »

Dzimas,

Hans Albers is not exactly an example (if you don't mind the double negative going from English to German?) of a non-verneinen actor somehow rehabilitated.

If there is one thing that strange little film,The Good German, clarified, which was certainly not consistent in the lighting, how decisions were made as to who was whom was a tricky business.

About the only reason Fritz Lang is different from Charlie Chaplin is obvious, Modern Times was a comedy that I saw, and Metropolis, which I also saw was surreal modernism since Lang was perhaps a social critic considering his mother was merely a Catholic convert; for the Nazis. He got out in '34, like those I have known because, to the Nazis, he was a Jew just like his mother.  Charlie Chaplin would have categorically fit into their scheme of things too. I was not as amoured of him as my father's generation who needed to laugh but I was fascinated by Peter Lorre for the rest of my life and, on viewing again recently, I can really appreciate Fritz Lang's technique with excuse the expression,"shooting actors" when he creates drama.

So what I am hearing when asked to compare just these two films by these two machters is somewhat different.  That the American authorities  helped along resurgent naziism in 1952 with this: " . . . 'Since the end of the last world war, I have been the object of lies and propaganda by powerful reactionary groups who, by their influence and by the aid of America's yellow press, have created an unhealthy atmosphere in which liberal-minded individuals can be singled out and persecuted. Under these conditions I find it virtually impossible to continue my motion-picture work, and I have therefore given up my residence in the United States.' For sale in Hollywood were Chaplin's studio, offered at $900,000, his house at $150,000 and his yacht at $27,500. "

Really,Dzimas, take a look at that quote posted at 2:06 PM, and read the "sub-text".  Several of us have been tar-brushed with homophobia and now they are jerking the idea of Movie Club  around on a chain to discuss the film they already dissected in their inimitable style at the nytimes.com     When you say, "I think we might even lure whiskeypriest into the discussion if we take on The Third Man, which Criterion has been so nice to restore for us." (in an earlier post). I actually hope he is enjoying Oktoberfest at Kluczynski Federal plaza, which began this week.

"I want to talk about The Third Man (1949)…

And other classics like Pandora’s Box (1929)…"

I was around for all that zither music and Orson back in '49 and what's to be said for all the mystery of it.

Pandora's Box, however, came up in your mention of interest in Weimar (arts in general) and I happened to have gathered the pertinent stuff on Lulu for my sister-in-law whose grandson was in a Chicago production;we intended to see the production on the road in Philadelphia  a year ago.  "Lulu" was of course American;the Leni Riefenstahl material was coverage originally at The New York Times but I got to see many of those films too.  Contrary to popular belief UFA kept on working and Hans Albers, from the link that lhoffman suggests(http://tinyurl.com/2z3qhs ), is well known for his work with Leni.

"His most famous song "Auf der Reeperbahn nachts um halb eins" (On the Reeperbahn at 12.30 a.m.) is the unofficial anthem of the colorful neighborhood of St. Pauli, which is known for its brothels, music and night clubs" imdb   (because he is of course known for Der Blaue Engel)






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madupont
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« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2007, 04:22:42 PM »

Ps. the Chaplin quote is from Times magazine, April 14,1953
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desdemona222b
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« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2007, 04:31:32 PM »

Could we talk David Lynch for a minute?  Does anyone understand his movies?  I like their weird, surrealistic touch but then he goes throwing dwarves in and I'm thrown off.  Note - this is not a dwarfophobic post, I don't care what anyone says.
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barton
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« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2007, 04:40:55 PM »

The dwarves represent, in essence....small people.  OK, I haven't made a lot of progress with the dwarves.  But there are plenty of Lynch movies that are not loaded with dwarves, so one can delve into his canon without having to deal with that particular symbolism.  As a general thing, it's useful to know that Lynch is obsessed with the 1950s and views American life in that era as taking on some of the qualities of a freakshow.  Not to say that everyone in his films is necessarily a Diane Arbus subject, but that he creates a sort of myth of that time which serves as a big bag full of archetypal weirdness, i.e. you can make really good dream stuff (i.e. surrealism) out of it, with characters that are, in various ways, exaggerated and grotesque.  And the veneer of suburban or small town normality serves to heighten the effect of the grotesquerie as it bleeds through the surface.

 
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2007, 04:48:11 PM »

Lynch is obsessed with the 1950s and views American life in that era as taking on some of the qualities of a freakshow.   

Just the 1950s? Wake up and smell the coffee.

Welcome to Freakshow (2007).
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“Other people's obsessions
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2007, 04:55:03 PM »


...and now they are jerking the idea of Movie Club
around on a chain to discuss the film they already
dissected in their inimitable style at the nytimes.com 

When you say, "I think we might even lure whiskeypriest
into the discussion if we take on The Third Man, which
Criterion has been so nice to restore for us." I actually
hope he is enjoying Oktoberfest at Kluczynski Federal
plaza, which began this week.

I was around for all that zither music and Orson back
in '49 and what's to be said for all the mystery of it.


“A number of names were simultaneously flung
at Martins—little sharp pointed names like Stein,
round pebbles like Woolf. A young Austrian with
an ardent intellectual black forelock called out,
“Daphne du Maurier,” and Mr. Crabbin winced and
looked sideways at Martins. He said in an
undertone, “Be kind to them.”

—Graham Greene, The Third Man


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“Other people's obsessions
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jbottle
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« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2007, 05:01:02 PM »

I thought Mulholland was about how dreams and dreams of Hollywood success provide excape from and delusion about how grim reality is in life or in Hollywood.  The idea of being discovered vs. being exploited, the freedom of dreaming vs. the certitude and finality of life, desire for love vs. furious lonely carnal masturbation, the implication of the viewer and the filmaker in exploitation of lovemaking between women and the beauty of two beautiful women making love, the Nancy Drewish girlish curiosity vs. a rotting corpse, I think overall it was about the horror of willful or survivalistic and necessary delusion colliding with disillusionment and fear.  But that's me.
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2007, 05:07:15 PM »

"Inimitable style"  Smiley Smiley Smiley   Anyone can analyze a movie when they "know" everyone involved in the thing....just "call" them up and ask what they were thinking.  Course if they're all dead, I suppose one contacts a medium..... Wink

But, I would definitely go for The Third Man.  

List of movies I like:
Pan's Labyrinth
The Third Man
Before Night Falls
The Best Years of Their Lives
(maybe compared to a German or French film from Post WWII)
Hitchcock as suggested by Dzimas
Eraserhead is good stuff...but that chicken dinner gets me every time.   Anyone see Lynch's 6 minute short on vomiting?

What was the problem over Lifeboat?  Issues of authorship?


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pugetopolis
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« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2007, 06:35:50 PM »

Anyone see Lynch's 6 minute short on vomiting?


The Short Films of David Lynch (2005) is an interesting DVD—for those moviegoers curious not only about Eraserhead but also about how an artist becomes a filmmaker:

“…a true iconoclast, his interest in moviemaking began not with an interest in film, per se, but with a eureka moment in which he saw one of his paintings tremble and decided to make one that intentionally moved. (Given all that can be traced back to this bolt of lightning, is Lynch Frankenstein or the monster?) That first piece, 1967's Six Men Getting Sick, was a feat of engineering, a 40-second 16mm animation projected continuously onto life-size casts of Lynch himself with the aid of a specially-rigged take-up spool. The DVD, alas, offers a pale simulation of the original exhibit (a four-minute/six-revolution loop backed by wailing sirens), and in and of itself the self-explanatory clip is hardly innovative—the theme of purging being a cliché among beginning animators and experimental filmmakers alike. As archaeology, though, it's fascinating to see traces of John Hurt's Elephant Man prosthesis in Lynch's Francis Bacon figures.”

http://filmfreakcentral.net/dvdreviews/eraserhead.htm

Six Men Getting Sick (1967) is a sculpture more than a film.

When I first saw it I thought of the Lady in the Radiator and some of the other scenes in Eraserhead. Lynch’s father was a research scientist for the U.S. Department of Agriculture—so one sees Lynch's imagination morphing out of that into something else.

“I always wanted to be a painter, and I was drawing and painting all along,” Lynch says.

He went to the Corcoran School of Art in Washington DD on weekends—then to the Boston Museum School. Then Europe—then the Philadelphia Academy of the Fine Arts. He was most impressed by the achievement of action painters like Jackson Pollock, Franz Kline and Jack Tworkov. Francis Bacon and Edward Hopper later.

The Six Men Getting Sick loop cost $200—shown on a sculptured screen on which 3 human shaped figures protruded, intentionally distorting the projected image.

“There were lots of things moving and happening—it was a very active film. There would be all this wild business happening, and then they would get sick. And then it would start all over again.”

Eraserhead is full of such neo-noir sculptural tableaus…which makes it difficult sometimes for the usual moviegoer to get into. But one's you get into it--it's hard to get out.   Smiley

But then if you know where Lynch is coming from…you know where he’s going…
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madupont
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« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2007, 07:06:30 PM »

 Speech patterns from English to German and vice-versa

 But those you get into-- it's  hard to get out. 

"But one's you get into it--it's hard to get out."  quote,re:#43


Lhoffman
Re: Movie Club
« Reply #42 on: Today at 05:07:15 PM »"Inimitable style"       Anyone can analyze a movie when they "know" everyone involved in the thing....just "call" them up and ask what they were thinking.  Course if they're all dead, I suppose one contacts a medium.....

HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh?
My last word on that subject:
Companies (Exact Matches) (Displaying 1 Result)  1. Dupont
 (Post Production Services and Facilities)

http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=Dupont
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