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Author Topic: Christmas - Separation of Church and State?  (Read 1650 times)
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2007, 02:10:46 PM »

Problem with Christian organizations that do good works?

Nope.
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2007, 02:21:57 PM »

 
Problem with Christian organizations that do good works?

Nope.

nice of you to keep working at missing the point.

I understand that you may not wish to discuss this on its merits...since proselytizing is a large part of the Christian mission.

But the fact remains that our government is based on the Constitution, not how "good" somebody's "works" are.

I wish you luck in your journey as you continue to struggle what the American Revolution was fought for, and the philosophy of the Enlightenment Thinkers that led to the framework of the Constitution.

When we choose to ignore what it says and what it means, we do so at our own peril.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2007, 02:27:29 PM »

You are not in favor of civic programs?
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caclark
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2007, 02:45:38 PM »

Whether a group receiving these funds is Christian or not is beside the point. The Bush Administration had no business whatsoever initiating this program and the fact that they did just further calls into question George W. Bush’s fitness to be President. Just consider the very concept of faith-based programs.

Faith-based?

Is it now the prerogative of the Federal Government to implement new Government programs that are based on faith?

Knock, knock, knock. Hellooooo! Is anyone at home in there?

What I'm most curious to know is whether or not George W. Bush as a high school student ever took a basic course in American Civics. It's not the prerogative of the President of the United States to even appear to be telling religious organizations what they are to be about, much less dangling taxpayer money to entice them.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 02:49:08 PM by caclark » Logged
josh
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« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2007, 02:52:20 PM »

And of course you consider this money spent as "propping up".

Why is a Christian group less worthy than a non-religious organization?

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the faith-based initiative passed over (as it were) non-Christian groups.

So, the question needs to be turned around:

Why are Christian groups considered to be more worthy than non-Christian groups?
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2007, 02:54:45 PM »

'Democrats also said they want to repeal a Bush-backed measure that requires US groupsrecieving faith-based funds to have a policy opposing prostitution.'

Can't make this stuff up.  Those Dems sure are good'uns, eh?
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josh
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« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2007, 02:58:13 PM »

'Democrats also said they want to repeal a Bush-backed measure that requires US groupsrecieving faith-based funds to have a policy opposing prostitution.'

Can't make this stuff up.  Those Dems sure are good'uns, eh?

I suspect that the measure that is under consideration has many other features besides that one. Got a bill number so I can look it up? Or a bill name or a sponsor?

Though, there is an irony here, since the US used to own a brothel.
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caclark
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« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2007, 03:15:36 PM »

"Democrats also said they want to repeal a Bush-backed measure that requires US groupsrecieving faith-based funds to have a policy opposing prostitution."

I hadn't heard that but if it's true just as it's put there, then I'm in complete agreement with the Democrats. It's not the prerogative of the President of the United States to try to manipulate religion in any area of belief. I don't think that’s too complex a concept for even a mediocre mind to grasp.
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josh
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« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2007, 03:27:51 PM »

I don't think that’s too complex a concept for even a mediocre mind to grasp.

Is that really necessary?
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caclark
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« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2007, 03:31:28 PM »

Is that really necessary?

No. It was entirely discretionary.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 03:33:52 PM by caclark » Logged
josh
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« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2007, 03:36:41 PM »

Is that really necessary?

No. It was entirely discretionary.

*sigh* Can I ask for more discretion? It is far to easy to end up mudslinging at one another, rather than discussing the points.
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caclark
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« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2007, 03:41:27 PM »

"It is far to easy to end up mudslinging at one another, rather than discussing the points."

Your point is well taken. But when I consider the general sneering and heckling tone of a certain someone's posts, I'm not going to feel too bad about kicking that SOB in the nuts every now and then.
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Donotremove
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« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2007, 04:02:44 PM »

MrUtley, I have a BIG problem with my tax dollars going to faith based charities, groups, whatever.  My two US senators are Republican.  My one daily newspaper is Republican.  Texas state government is Republican.  I have one ally.  The US congressman (in this case, congresswoman) is a Democrat.  She does what she can.  Besides writing letters, what else would people in my same circumstances do?

I have a big problem--even if it's for my candidate--of churches preaching politics from the pulpit.  And still enjoying tax excempt status. 
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liquidsilver
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« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2007, 04:03:27 PM »

Problem with Christian organizations that do good works?

Nope.

The issue is that they don't follow federal guidelines for employment practices yet receive federal monies.  In effect, it gives them the right to discriminate with federal dollars
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josh
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« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2007, 04:17:56 PM »

"It is far to easy to end up mudslinging at one another, rather than discussing the points."

Your point is well taken. But when I consider the general sneering and heckling tone of a certain someone's posts, I'm not going to feel too bad about kicking that SOB in the nuts every now and then.

If it ever did anything but exacerbate the situation, I might feel the same way. But it doesn't.
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