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Author Topic: Jazz  (Read 2778 times)
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rmdig
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2007, 04:50:59 PM »

chipstern

As I said, his discography is huge.  But I don't like the way he plays the drums.
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chipstern
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« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2007, 05:50:38 PM »

That fact did not elude me. 

Not trying to change your mind. 

Just stating the case for his eminence among musicians and fellow drummers, such as moi. 

Who do you like on drums?  I'm sure we can agree on several. 
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rmdig
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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2007, 06:21:02 PM »

You mentioned Motian drumming for Bill Evans.  I like Marty Morell's work with Evans.  I also like Steve Gadd, Alex Acuna, Bill Bruford, Herlin Riley, and others. 
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Dzimas
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« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2007, 01:36:40 AM »

Interesting that Motian is what drew you back into the jazz forum, chip.  It would be nice to revive this forum, and am glad to see you making comments rmdig.  It has been a long time since we have had any life in this forum, including the NYTimes.  Of course, Motian was on Bill Evans classic recordings, Waltz for Debby coming to mind.  The On Broadway series is a good one.  Sound of Love.  Misterioso. 
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rmdig
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« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2007, 09:47:00 AM »

I have a CD (had it on vinyl) of one of the few recordings Bill Evans did on Columbia -- The Bill Evans Album.  This was one of the first jazz albums I ever bought -- I would have been about 17 at the time the album was released.  If I remember correctly, Bill, Eddie Gomez and Marty Morell performed on Johnny Carson one night - the album had won a Grammy and I guess Helen Keane, who produced the recording, had Bill milking that for all it was worth.  My father used to let me stay up and watch Carson with him until midnight.  He didn't like the performance at all; I seem to remember thinking the music sounded really weird to my ears.  Since I was into "weird" sounds in those days, I immediately bought the album and listened to it a lot.  When I listen to it now I have no idea why it might have sounded weird.  I know Marty Morell didn't like the album or the album cover and maybe he also didn't think much of Helen Keane.  He also didn't think his play was all that great. 

At about the same time or maybe a few years later I was staying up to watch Hugh Hefner's late night show that often featured the Modern Jazz Quartet.  I bought a lot of their records, too.   
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chipstern
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2007, 02:46:46 PM »

I have a CD (had it on vinyl) of one of the few recordings Bill Evans did on Columbia -- The Bill Evans Album.  This was one of the first jazz albums I ever bought -- I would have been about 17 at the time the album was released.  If I remember correctly, Bill, Eddie Gomez and Marty Morell performed on Johnny Carson one night - the album had won a Grammy and I guess Helen Keane, who produced the recording, had Bill milking that for all it was worth.  My father used to let me stay up and watch Carson with him until midnight.  He didn't like the performance at all; I seem to remember thinking the music sounded really weird to my ears.  Since I was into "weird" sounds in those days, I immediately bought the album and listened to it a lot.  When I listen to it now I have no idea why it might have sounded weird.  I know Marty Morell didn't like the album or the album cover and maybe he also didn't think much of Helen Keane.  He also didn't think his play was all that great. 

At about the same time or maybe a few years later I was staying up to watch Hugh Hefner's late night show that often featured the Modern Jazz Quartet.  I bought a lot of their records, too.   

On those Columbia recordings, Bill played with A Fender/Rhodes, did some charts by George Russell...

I was never crazy about Marty Morrell or Elliot Zigmund.  Good drummers, but a little...mmmm, chattery and bizzzzee for my tastes, least ways with Bill.  I liked Bill's odd latter recordings with Philly Joe Jones and the Verve bit with Shelly Manne. 

I lurk around this Forum from time to time, but not too much action.  I just happen to have a passion for Motian, who many fans and drummers can't abide with because of what they preceive to be his lack of technique or clunkiness.  For me, the quality of expression and the overall arc of the music is more vital than the sheer technical aspects.  Paul is not not technical, he is musical. 

If you want a good piano trio more  or less in the classic vein, with some drumming we can all agree upon, get a copy of The Essential Jo Jones on Vanguard.  Has a nice Basie-like session, and an amazing trio with brother Ray and Tommy Bryant on piano and bass.  The Bryant brothers' nephews in Philly are guitarist Kevin, trombonist Robin and trumpeter Duane Eubanks.  Ray still with us, and brings a lovely element of gospel and blues into apowerful pianistic conception.  Their set features Ray's lovely "Cubano Chant" and Papa Jo's great drum feature on "Old Man River" which was his showpiece, and among the best, if not the best, drum solos I've ever heard--a great storytelling vehicle. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrKShqNkcnI

Here is a miniature version of it (with Roy Eldridge, The Oscar Peterson Trio and JATP in a 1957 broadcast from the Nat "King " Cole Show...magical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeYXfmgHU9c

And here is Max Roach at his creative zenith doing three of his drum compositions in 1968

There is a recent release, EB3, which features a CD and DVD of the same live performance, I am reviewing for Playbill featuring Robin Eubanks on trombone and electronics, with Kenwood Dennard, a simply astonishing drummer of great rtehnical and imaginative skills, who herein often plays drum kit with one hand and both feet, while using his left hand to play bass lines on a keyboard synth.  Sheeeeeet...I told Kenwood he needs to pee into a cup. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLxNIMeaq_k

Here is him on a much more elaborate electro-acoustic kit than the minimalist kit he now employs doing a one-man band thang, rapping, singing, playing synth and grooving at a Zildjian Clinic.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecjYZ-7VQkU

Finally here is some really cool footage of Big Sid Catlett and Gene Krupa.  Doesn't get any cooler than Big Sid.  Like he was walkin' the dawg.  Ho Hum. 

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madupont
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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2007, 03:08:11 PM »


Motian was the drummer in Bill Evans premier trio with Scott LaFaro.  "nuff said. 

Playing goes nowhere?  Might more poetically talk of how he is a jazz impressionist, able to play the pulse as well as in a more time-oriented manner, creating a free-flow of colorations and accents and rhyhmic signposts and milestones without necessarily having to commit to straight-time patterns.  Paul can swing and state the One with the best of them; he can also demarcate a pulse without locking the improvising ensemble into any discernible groove.  One always has a feeling of a flow, of tensiona and release, but the time is more implied than stated in a marvellously personal style of broken field running. 

He is immensely musical.  Check out his work on the recent Nonesuch release Bill, Frisell, Ron Carter, Paul Motian.  Musicians love to play with him for the manner in which he HEARS THE MUSIC.  Paul does not have the most eleaborate floor routine or employ a lot of technical flummery--he is like a modern jazz Baby Dodds, and a great listener.  Pauls's work on pianist Frank Kimbough's Palmetto release, Play, with bassist Masa Kamaguchi, is also superb. 

I once characterized Paul's avant garde stylings by dubbing him "...the patron saint of spastics."  He has a way of playing free form that is completely unique.  Again, a great listener, who lets the music happen all around him, with unpreditable syncopations and punctuations that break up the flow into odd little groupings and build tension without stepping on anyone's toes.  A great orchestrator and colorist. 

If you want to hear Paul rock out as it were, in a more groove-oriented manner, he comprises a pretty interesting power trio with Jack Bruce and John McLaughlin on Carla Bley's Esacaltor Over The Hill, and his work in the Keith Jarrett Quartet with Charlie Haden and Dewey Redman was quite powerful. 

Paul is also a very fine composer and has led a number of original ensembles, including his multiple guitar Electric Bebop Band and his longstanding trio with Joe Lovano and Bill Frisell.

No Paul's playing is not to everyone's taste, but he is an original stylist and a great listener with his own sound who does not indulge in any discernible rhythmic cliches. 

Not your bag.  Cool.  Somebody must like him. 

Fucking A: 



Bill Evans Trio
Pierre Favre
Fredy Studer
Nana Vasconcelos
John Gilmore
Gary Peacock
Charlie Haden
Carla Bley
Keith Jarett
Paul Bley
Electric Bebop Band
Geri Allen
Joshua Redman
Kurt Rosenwinkel
Joe Lovano
Bill Frisell
Oscar Petitford
Thelonius Monk
Zoot Sims
Lennie Tristano
Sonny Rollins
John Coltrane
Charlie Haden
Keith Jarret
Ed Schuller
Electric Be Bop Band
Trio 2000
Tony Scott
Gil Evans
Art Farmer
Lee Konitz
George Russell
Stan Getz
Coleman Hawkins
Roy Eldridge
Scott LaFaro
Chuck Israel
Paul Bley


Had to print out all of this as I just didn't know where to draw the line in order to get the quote! But my comment has to do mostly with what you express in first paragraph after your opening lines and again in your third.

You see, I used to have this argument regularly with Dave Bailey, when I was in the city to study at Martha Graham and my idea of "jazz dancing" was at variance to line dancing, probably because in this newly Nina Simone period, "Downtown", the class that I really enjoyed was Talley Beatty where we got to work with at least three women drummers, with three different sizes of drums in the Haitian tradition, mambo,papa,and boulie.

The object is to dance as you are describing Motian but it is the old chicken and egg thing, knowing we get it from the drummers, do they also catch it from us?
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rmdig
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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2007, 04:15:43 PM »

"On those Columbia recordings, Bill played with A Fender/Rhodes . . ."

You're right, half way at least.  He either begins on the Fender/Rhodes and then switches to acoustic midway through a song or the other way around.   

I've been listening to a Clifford Brown/Max Raoch recording on EmArcy -- Clifford Brown and Max Roach at Basin Street.  The liner notes seem to suggest that these are live performances but I'm not so sure they are.  The takes date from 1956 and feature at least three long Max Roach solos.  Also features a young Sonny Rollins on tenor.
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chipstern
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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2007, 05:17:35 PM »

"On those Columbia recordings, Bill played with A Fender/Rhodes . . ."

You're right, half way at least.  He either begins on the Fender/Rhodes and then switches to acoustic midway through a song or the other way around.   

I've been listening to a Clifford Brown/Max Raoch recording on EmArcy -- Clifford Brown and Max Roach at Basin Street.  The liner notes seem to suggest that these are live performances but I'm not so sure they are.  The takes date from 1956 and feature at least three long Max Roach solos.  Also features a young Sonny Rollins on tenor.

They are not live recordings, but they certainly are A-LIVE.  Fantastic music on every level. 
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chipstern
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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2007, 05:22:16 PM »

There most certainly is a give and take between drummers and dancers, dancers and drummers. 

Not necessarily tap or popular dance, either. 

Papa Jo Jones used to show me all sorts of references he adapted to his drum routines, that derived directly from tap routines, particulary an ending he used to employ, to wrap up a solo turn or a break, that he took from Bill "Bojangles" Robinson. 
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madupont
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« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2007, 06:29:32 PM »

That's funny, i was just posting donotremove the other night about The Village Gate (and the Village Vanguard) back in the days when Toots Thielemann went back and forth from there to Hamburg where John Lennon tried to figure him out on the lunch set. But, at the VG, Toots would lead or follow Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee. Then the forum crashed.

Bojangles was my childhood at the movies but I did not grow up to be Shirley Temple. That was the style of dance that they did bring back to the Gate in the late Fifties, before Savion Glover,  but because of the Hines brothers and called it "Jazz Dancing", although that is not what I had in mind when speaking of the percussive possibilities of counter-rhythmic flow, a little more on the lines of Gil Evans, Bill Evans, and Monk's Crepescule.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2007, 04:41:50 AM »

Nice site for anyone into drumming,

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummerchoice.html

includes some great videos of most drummers at the peak of their abilities. 

I was impressed by Brian Blade, when I saw him in Vilnius with Wayne Shorter last year,

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Brian_Blade.html

Looks and sounds like a young Max Roach.  Sadly, Wayne Shorter has seen better days.


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rmdig
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« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2007, 05:02:26 PM »

I got my copy of the Clifford Brown/Max Roach Compilation -- Alone Together: The Best of the Mercury Years.  My this is good.  A little bit of everything.  Hard to believe that two great trumpeters -- Clifford Brown and Lee Morgan -- didn't make it out of their 20s. 
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madupont
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« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2007, 11:55:55 AM »

I would never have guessed that Lee Morgan was only in his twenties when I knew him. He seemed much more mature. But of course he wasnt; that's why he died so early.
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« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2007, 07:46:18 PM »

I saw Dianne Reeves at the Met Museum of Art last night and it was a thrilling experience.  For one thing, the venue there is pretty small and intimate (even with a balcony).

I only knew Reeves through Good Night and Good Luck and that was enough.  What a personality, not to mention, voice.  She adlibbed, and communicated really warmly with the audience.  Natural talk; not stilted like many singers do between songs.  I haven't seen a singer this connected to an audience since Frank Sinatra.  She was accompanied by two fantastic (and I mean fantastic) guitar players: Russell Malone (who was awesume) and Romero Lubambo, who excellent.  And what a job she did on James Taylor's "You've Got a Friend."  At times she sounded "gospel" and reminded me of Morgana King.  I usually dislike scat but in Reeves' case, I'll make an exception.

I might go see her again when she appears in DC at the Kennedy Center.  I didn't find out about that until  after I sent for my ticket from the Met.

A really great experience. 
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