Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 33358 times)
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #675 on: June 23, 2007, 05:11:40 PM »


I've always thought the line "Someday this war is gonna end" was significantly more significant.

Smiley yes, good recall...

I remember waiting for the rest of the thought...which of course never came...
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #676 on: June 23, 2007, 05:14:11 PM »

a fat old guy muttering about existential malaise while banging this hot young chick.


actually...I think you just reminded me why I liked it...something to aspire to... when I'm old and senile...  Smiley
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #677 on: June 23, 2007, 05:15:58 PM »

More by rote than recall. Saw it a dozen or so times. That was before the Redux version came out.
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jbottle
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« Reply #678 on: June 23, 2007, 05:35:00 PM »

"That's why this scumbag lurker lurks. Boyd 'n Bottle. Bottle 'n Boyd."

The fuck are you talkin' about?
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #679 on: June 23, 2007, 05:37:21 PM »

"That's why this scumbag lurker lurks. Boyd 'n Bottle. Bottle 'n Boyd."

The fuck are you talkin' about?

Uh, I'm a scumbag lurker. I get a kick out of your and oilcan's musings.
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harrie
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« Reply #680 on: June 23, 2007, 05:38:39 PM »

I was an AOR jock in the 70s and our format was replaced by "disco" in the late 70s

So like, Dr. Johnny Fever posts here?  Awesome!

I did not get Last Tango in Paris. I just didn't see why anyone would spend one minute with Brando's insufferable character -- and I love Brando, by the way -- much less a young, attractive woman who put up with some of the crap, verbal and otherwise, that he dished out.
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jbottle
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« Reply #681 on: June 23, 2007, 05:44:00 PM »

Oh, okay chaunce, I'm always welcoming to the scumbag lurker from the dank corners of cyberspace community...
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #682 on: June 23, 2007, 05:48:31 PM »

I just didn't see why anyone would spend one minute with Brando's insufferable character -- and I love Brando, by the way -- much less a young, attractive woman who put up with some of the crap, verbal and otherwise, that he dished out.


ahh...but people do just that in relationships, don't they?   Sometimes, things seem so obvious to the outsider looking in, but when you are the one in that relationship, you are idealizing the other party and seeing them the way you want them to be -- endlessly hoping that they will change those few bad traits on their own or that you will be able to ultimately change them by showing them the way...

In the end it is nearly always equally a commentary about the abused as it is about the abuser.  There is something both parties are seeking and this is where they are currently "stuck" in their search.  Usually something in childhood and something comfortable about the person they are with...

How many of us voluntarily choose to do the work to escape from these all too common traps vs. just continue to live and complain about our plight...
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madupont
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« Reply #683 on: June 23, 2007, 05:55:04 PM »

Trojanhorse  re:#671

I only forget whether or not in the end, her mortality cured him of his penchant for enacting suicidal attention-getters.  Remember the old homily,"Suicide is a cry for attention(if not help)".[because you are not going to get any] Or, was that the film where it ends with his doing a Thelma and Louise, sort of like half of Jules et Jim?

Wouldn't you be bored at that age,with a mother who didn't have any time to relate to you whatsoever other than to correct some "socially unacceptable" habit you seemed to have when she bothered to look? I think, he is just deliriously  enlightened to discover a "kindred spirit" in this other strange little person who is not only old enough to be his mother but probably old enough to be his grandmother and so unlike his mother in any way.

He's obviously over-privileged as an only-son, which technically makes him a momma's-boy with nothing to do, who is just superfluous in every way. This has quite often produced absolute monsters, out of control socially because they don't have to get along; historically, they can, dare I say it,rule the world! or, think they can.  I spotted one show up here the other day, hasn't been seen since.

I think, though, the carefully orchestrated fake hanging was just part of Cort's "schtik". I seem to remember something about his family being in the business, vaudeville and burlesque that is, but I may be wrong.  In a way , the character that he plays, Harold, was a forerunner of someone like Philip Seymour Hoffman envisioning Capote who was in reality that strange little man in adulthood of the boy Harper Lee describes in --To Kill a Mockingbird, as having the same emotionally neglected pouting, tantruming,sissified characteristics of Bud Cort's Harold. (Which is why, I secretly feel that, although the other film made about Truman Capote, while perhaps not being as good a film in all considerations, was a better characterization of his flippant behaviour, by a little known British actor.)

In any case, acting out his hilariously suppressed Oedipal complex produces one of the most memorable film scenes of that genre ever produced. I mean, it is delightful in comparison to Helmut Berger.  It didn't seem to bother Ruth Gordon in the least, to play it as it lays, because she's beyond all that as a professional and, besides, I forgot to mention, she was a member of the Algonquin Round-table.
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #684 on: June 23, 2007, 06:10:39 PM »

There is something both parties are seeking and this is where they are currently "stuck" in their search.  Usually something in childhood and something comfortable about the person they are with...

The documentary subject in Annie Hall talked about very much the same thing. I'll try to dig up the dialogue.
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madupont
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« Reply #685 on: June 23, 2007, 06:13:03 PM »

trojanhorse, re:#690

Of course that is what --Last Tango in Paris is about.  Was it Bertolucci's film? I can't remember.  If you recall, like the reverse of my take on Harold and Maude, there are definitely scenes of how the young actress(what ever happened to her career?) wants to get even and punish her father. I seem to recall that she either has his military hat, or he is seen in it at some point.

Recently a book was reviewed about a novel by Edith Templeton, which I read  a few years back.  It is still being discussed from the point of view that she didn't dare publish it at the time that she wrote it, since it deals with the same idea of relationship found in Last Tango in Paris.  I can't even recall the title a week or so later after seeing it probably at the nytimes.com.

Brando's character's reasoning was something else again, do you recall,after you get used to the Parisian hotel, there is also a suicide scene. In the bathtub. I am trying desperately to recall, if this was not his character, I have a vague nudge to my memory that this was a wife who got away from him.  So to speak.

Jbottle just doesn't get what I do well remember about this film. It was coming out of the theater afterward and listening to the mumblings of greasy fat old guys mumbling about their existential malaise and what they were mumbling was their public disassociation of what was depicted (which of course they knew that was what they were going to see when they paid for their ticket.  One does not go to a Brando movie without knowing the flavour of the season that he is into. I am thinking of his -- A Dry White Season, obviously. His social-consciousness often takes a turn into a more personal sphere that he seems to be working through for himself as long as he is an actor anyway and can do it publicly what's the harm in that?)

This was a god-send of voyeuristic  wish fulfillment for guys who were Brando's age but had never been in so good a shape as he had been before it all shifted.
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #686 on: June 23, 2007, 06:13:59 PM »

Sorry, that's the documentary subject in Crimes and Misdemeanors.
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #687 on: June 23, 2007, 06:16:00 PM »

Professor Levy: You will notice that what we are aiming at when we fall in love is a very strange paradox. The paradox consists of the fact that, when we fall in love, we are seeking to re-find all or some of the people to whom we were attached as children. On the other hand, we ask our beloved to correct all of the wrongs that these early parents or siblings inflicted upon us. So that love contains in it the contradiction: The attempt to return to the past and the attempt to undo the past.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097123/quotes
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jbottle
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« Reply #688 on: June 23, 2007, 06:16:13 PM »

I don't think "Harold and Maude" was all that deep, it was just kind of a version of the odd couple where the tension comes not because the subtext is that they are queer but sexually inapproprite in age partners.  It sets up as a series of suicide gags, really, and is redeemed by Ashby's measured approach to the material.  We don't really have to know why Harold wants to kill himself; that much is obvious, whether he is a precocious intellectual, moody art weirdo in the making, ignored & spoiled rich kid, etc., there are pretty good reasons to want to kill yourself all around, other than the basic humanity and rapport he seems to enjoy with Maude, which is enough to distract him from suicidal gesture to wanting to inquire, basically, how she was able to get old, and I think at the time it had a lot to do with realizing that there are a legion of malcontents and intellectuals of all ages and that turning 30 doesn't make you conservative and that John Lennon didn't invent karma, that's kind of what I got out of it...
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jbottle
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« Reply #689 on: June 23, 2007, 06:19:09 PM »

"Jbottle just doesn't get what I do well remember about this film. It was coming out of the theater afterward and listening to the mumblings of greasy fat old guys mumbling about their existential malaise and what they were mumbling was their public disassociation of what was depicted..."

Yeah, that's what I said, that it sucked...
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