Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 53328 times)
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harrie
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« Reply #690 on: June 23, 2007, 06:19:50 PM »

I just didn't see why anyone would spend one minute with Brando's insufferable character -- and I love Brando, by the way -- much less a young, attractive woman who put up with some of the crap, verbal and otherwise, that he dished out.


ahh...but people do just that in relationships, don't they?   Sometimes, things seem so obvious to the outsider looking in, but when you are the one in that relationship, you are idealizing the other party and seeing them the way you want them to be -- endlessly hoping that they will change those few bad traits on their own or that you will be able to ultimately change them by showing them the way...

In the end it is nearly always equally a commentary about the abused as it is about the abuser.  There is something both parties are seeking and this is where they are currently "stuck" in their search.  Usually something in childhood and something comfortable about the person they are with...

How many of us voluntarily choose to do the work to escape from these all too common traps vs. just continue to live and complain about our plight...

Trojan, I know what you're saying, and I've been there at least once too often.  So under those circumstances, I walk; and I have very little patience for those who don't. 

I've seen LTIP once, and a while ago, so I'm fuzzy on some stuff.  But I could more understand putting up with the crap if the relationship was established and somehow morphed into, for lack of a better word, an abusive one.  If I recall correctly, the relationship was not an existing one; and at the first jerky thing Brando said, I'd find myself saying "Seeeya." 

And in fact, Brando's character pissed me off, so I flipped in and out of LTIP, making myself go back because it was one of those films you're supposed to see.  So admittedly, I could have missed all the good parts; but of what I saw, I was just kind of nonplussed. (And also admittedly, my going back to LTIP could be construed as classic abusee behavior -- me going back time and time again, just like Maria Shriver Schneider [Ahnuld will be so relieved!] -- but I'm not going there.)
« Last Edit: June 23, 2007, 06:39:35 PM by harrie » Logged
madupont
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« Reply #691 on: June 23, 2007, 06:26:53 PM »

I often thought the character of Larry Darrow in The Razor's Edge I reminded me of Hemingway and I found it particularly interesting in the film version with Bill Murray, that they made him an ambulence driver.  It's been many many years since I read the book, but I don't recall him being an ambulence driver in the book.

Not sure if  Maugham knew Hemmingway personally or not, but he always asserted, I beleive, that he didn't make much up in the novel...probably a complilation of 2-3 people

Compare Murray's version with that of Tyrone Power(1946). Then see what you think.  Maugham was as likely to put Ambulance Driver into the personnae because he was himself a doctor. Weird but true. Thus, you get --Of Human Bondage, with Bette Davis, while Maugham was young enough to tussle with this idea but only an idea since he was quite gay and didn't know how that would fly with his profession?  How he had time to write all his stuff is unimaginable. I started reading him very early in life when I ran into a stash in a public library, particularly the short stories.

Starring Tyrone Power, you have a supporting cast of Gene Tierney, Anne Baxter,CLIFTON WEBB,Herbert Marshall, and Elsa Lanchester. And it is very dark and hypnotic to say the least. Although I did gain a new respect for Bill Murray from seeing him in this role and discovering he was an actor and not just a comic.
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jbottle
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« Reply #692 on: June 23, 2007, 06:27:20 PM »

A friend of mine always goes "Europe!?!," like, huh, that must be, uh, "Europe..."

Bertolucci, in his culture there is always the girl that you sleep with and then the mother of your children:  It's the US/Puritanical deal that makes this an uncomfortable idea generally, i.e. "That's just.....Europe," which doesn't acquit "Last Tango..." from being boring, but if I recall it was very well lit, and I haven't seen it in a while to be fair...
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jbottle
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« Reply #693 on: June 23, 2007, 06:37:11 PM »

Actually, "Harold and Maude" had every right to be laughable because it was a go for broke black humor joke, and it succeeded, that's a testament to Hal Ashby, and when you think he made that and Shampoo and The Last Detail in about as short a time as Robert Towne wrote two of those and Chinatown, you have to wonder whether creativity for writers especially, comes in these bursts, or whether it is creative freedom that allows for the creativity, or whether nobody has more than three good books, movies, etc., in them, and even the greats, other than Shakespeare, I mean, who made more than three good albums, movies, acting gigs, obviously paintings are excluded and nevermind because Scorcese and De Palma have each made at least four great movies, okay, I quit...
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madupont
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« Reply #694 on: June 23, 2007, 06:53:25 PM »

jbottle, #696

"to wanting to inquire, basically, how she was able to get old,"

Thanks! I had forgotten about that aspect; it was actually in the dialogue.

Now what is this about Bertolucci's culture:
"there is always the girl that you sleep with and then the mother of your children:"

You could have fooled me.  I think the first thing that i saw of his was --
1900 (with  Donald Sutherland as the known actor. The unknowns were Robert De Niro and Gerard Depardieu!)  although one or the other of these latter actors has a mother who is shown en-haloed for all practical purposes and redeems Italian motherhood from the perpetual strega of other film directors.   In fact, when ever I can get away with it,the Bertolucci version, as I try to get into character with that image, because it works.  I suppose that is because my husband had an Italian mistress.

But honestly I can't see Bertolucci's films as you describe them. The Last Emperor;The Sheltering Sky; Stealing Beauty, etc.?

1900 was to me very male-based while primarily political.  Are you sure you are not thinking FELLINI?

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madupont
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« Reply #695 on: June 23, 2007, 06:56:26 PM »

chauncey.g  #695

Best part of Crimes and Misdemeanors, Jerry Orbach as Jack Rosenthal.
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #696 on: June 23, 2007, 07:10:10 PM »

chauncey.g  #695

Best part of Crimes and Misdemeanors, Jerry Orbach as Jack Rosenthal.

Do you mean you didn't think much of the film and Jerry Orbach's portrayal saved it for you? Or was his participation the icing on a wunnerful cake?

I believe it is one of if not Woody's finest. I agree that Orbach kicked much butt as the mobster with a clean conscience. I've mentioned before (back at the nytimes, i believe) that casting him as Martin Landau's brother was a stroke of genius. Or just so damn obvious that I coulda cast it.
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #697 on: June 23, 2007, 07:22:20 PM »

Hey Chauncey G - Did you get your handle from "Being There"?  I remember liking it a lot, but it's probably been 10 years since I've seen it.

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madupont
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« Reply #698 on: June 23, 2007, 07:26:04 PM »

chauncey.g  #695

Best part of Crimes and Misdemeanors, Jerry Orbach as Jack Rosenthal.

Do you mean you didn't think much of the film and Jerry Orbach's portrayal saved it for you? Or was his participation the icing on a wunnerful cake?

I believe it is one of if not Woody's finest. I agree that Orbach kicked much butt as the mobster with a clean conscience. I've mentioned before (back at the nytimes, i believe) that casting him as Martin Landau's brother was a stroke of genius. Or just so damn obvious that I coulda cast it.

I thought it was a great film, probably went to see it for Angelica Huston. Landau is always impressive. But it seems to me that this film was even before his work on, Law and Order. Or, am I wrong? Orbach that is.  I go along with your take;  while having forgotten how matter of fact he was about his commitment.

Just thinking back on it makes me realize how I probably missed some of the best acting around at the time, since I connected to his vibe late in the game. It may be that he reminds me of a lot of the flavor of New York as I knew it,just by being himself.
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #699 on: June 23, 2007, 07:28:55 PM »

Hey Chauncey G - Did you get your handle from "Being There"?  I remember liking it a lot, but it's probably been 10 years since I've seen it.



Yes. That's another flick I watch repeatedly. The vhs I have includes some outtakes of Chance asking the docotr (or is he a nurse?) if he is Raphael. Hilarious stuff.
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madupont
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« Reply #700 on: June 23, 2007, 07:40:03 PM »

trojanhorse, re:#690
"Recently a book was reviewed about a novel by Edith Templeton, which I read  a few years back.  It is still being discussed from the point of view that she didn't dare publish it at the time that she wrote it, since it deals with the same idea of relationship found in Last Tango in Paris"

And obviously it was somewhere else than the nytimes.com because checking for it realized, that where-ever I recently found it under my nose, it had been lifted verbatim from the review of March 2003.

 
http://tinyurl.com/2evv2q

Gordon, by Edith Templeton
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jbottle
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« Reply #701 on: June 23, 2007, 07:59:57 PM »

"Being There" is a great movie but a weird movie for me, bacause I knew that it was out from seeing the ads and playing, I guess in 1981, at a theater a bike ride away when I was 12 or so...so I asked a buddy to go to the like 3:30 showing, but he was late, and so I was standing at this corner, and then I walked to his house and he was kind of a ding-dong and was oh, yeah, I forgot, so we went.  I didn't really think about the fact that it was a pretty adult movie, so I was thinking it was a Peter Sellers comedy but it was very political and darkly comic.  I remember understanding most of it, the joke that any idiot could be President by spouting aphorisms, but I was largely confused, and clearly not at a movie my mother would have approved of...I think I thought about that movie a lot, though, and in trying to figure it out I didn't want to not understand the point most of all, and then I kind of went from there with loving movies.  Yeah, I remember the outtakes where he is on the guerney or whatever and it was a good way to end the movie, and great performance or whatever, but I don't think it's a perfect film, I think it's a strange film, but ultimately shooting for something it doesn't attain, or not knowing the true mark.
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jbottle
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« Reply #702 on: June 23, 2007, 08:29:06 PM »

I'm splitting hairs because it's a great film, I originally took my tagline from Jbottlerocket, but reduced it because of the immediate connection to a film that I love, and didn't think of yours in that way, and my abbreviation has gone on as emblematic of my love for "the bottle," which I cannot deny, but it ain't the whole story.  I'm not at all dismissive of "Being There," but it remains a kind of mystery to me because it's connected to my childhood in a way.

Anyhow, just saw the "Mohawks" part of the Irish film, and it held up well as a song and as a scene, pretty well done considering that if it doesn't, the movie looks cheap, and it looks great, I mean "Breakfast..." of course, couldn't think of the name right away but the concert scene works and those never do.
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jbottle
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« Reply #703 on: June 23, 2007, 09:20:02 PM »

I think that if you say "Pull out the wife-beater, Freddy..." as Funk reaches into his bag, he's going to stop in his tracks, and then you follow up with "You're the man, taco..." 

"Eminence front, sweet cakes, focus for bunny treats..."
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chauncey.g
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« Reply #704 on: June 23, 2007, 09:40:03 PM »

"Being There" was pretty much just a Peter Sellers vehicle for me when I first saw it. And though I was already in my 20s when it came out, I was just a stoner and heavy drinker who had just flunked out of school with absolutely no direction. Hmmm... not a whole lot has changed except that I gave up drinking.
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