Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 40711 times)
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harrie
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« Reply #960 on: July 06, 2007, 08:19:35 PM »

Ok, but haven't you had the experience of being around technical professionals in a field (be it medical, or engineering, or accounting or whatever) where two people are communicating with each other and you don't have any idea what they are talking about?

Or of two people from a different socio-economic status than yourself communicating in a language you don't understand (whether you consider them to be above or below your station)?

Once in awhile you may have the feeling that they are doing it on purpose to try to impress onlookers or whatever (therefore are "affected") but clearly there are different terms that evolve and apply within different groups. That's just the nature of the world isn't it?

I agree, yar is jargon of sorts; and I grew up on boats, too, though I didn't grow up on the Philadelphia Main Line.  (I can still drop/haul an anchor and tie a good bowline.)  For me, it's not so much the use of the word as the unnatural-sounding way in which Hepburn says "yar." And I know she grew up on the water (in Old Saybrook, CT), so it should sound natural coming from her. But to me it doesn't, it seems to stick out like a sore thumb.

Now that I start thinking about it, though, I think a lot of Hepburn lines sound funky, stilted, fake -- so maybe my issue is really with Hepburn, not with The Philadelphia Story.  Tha may be blasphemy, but that may be where I actually stand.
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #961 on: July 06, 2007, 08:28:40 PM »


Now that I start thinking about it, though, I think a lot of Hepburn lines sound funky, stilted, fake -- so maybe my issue is really with Hepburn, not with The Philadelphia Story.  Tha may be blasphemy, but that may be where I actually stand.

To paraphrase another old sailor:  "You gotta feel how you gotta feel"  Nothing wrong with that...

But now for the real test...How does William F. Buckley, Jr. strike you?
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #962 on: July 06, 2007, 08:32:57 PM »

He might surprise you...

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp

Her character in this movie reminds me of Buckley in some strange way.  All arrogance and puffed up as he often is...and yet, I think that is the point of The Philadelphia Story.  If we try to understand what makes people who they are and why they think the way they do, we're halfway home...  We shouldn't rush to judge.
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harrie
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« Reply #963 on: July 06, 2007, 08:34:27 PM »


To paraphrase another old sailor:  "You gotta feel how you gotta feel"  Nothing wrong with that...

But now for the real test...How does William F. Buckley, Jr. strike you?

See, he's all lockjawed and stuff, but in that case it doesn't bother me.  I'm talking about delivery only -- that doesn't mean I agree with anything he says.

Sometimes Hepburn strikes me as very stagey -- that is, she's not talking to Cary Grant (or Jimmy Stewart, or whomever), but to the back row of the theater.  The theater that isn't there, because this is a movie. 
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harrie
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« Reply #964 on: July 06, 2007, 08:37:32 PM »

He might surprise you...

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp

...If we try to understand what makes people who they are and why they think the way they do, we're halfway home...  We shouldn't rush to judge.

Okay, I don't disagree with everything Buckley has said.  But don't try to reason with me -- it won't work. 
(just kidding, in case there's any doubt)
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #965 on: July 06, 2007, 08:39:08 PM »


To paraphrase another old sailor:  "You gotta feel how you gotta feel"  Nothing wrong with that...

But now for the real test...How does William F. Buckley, Jr. strike you?

See, he's all lockjawed and stuff, but in that case it doesn't bother me.  I'm talking about delivery only -- that doesn't mean I agree with anything he says.

Sometimes Hepburn strikes me as very stagey -- that is, she's not talking to Cary Grant (or Jimmy Stewart, or whomever), but to the back row of the theater.  The theater that isn't there, because this is a movie. 

I actually do know what you mean here...   she has a rather overly dramatic delivery at times and in this movie I couldn't tell whether she didn't know how to portray the role of the social elite, or the director was asking her to perform in a way that he felt was appropriat3e for the role, or whether she was uncomfortable playing herself.  That caused me to do a little research on her at the time, because I honestly wondered which was the case...
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harrie
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« Reply #966 on: July 06, 2007, 09:02:09 PM »

You have a point -- for me, it might be more of a Cukor issue.  I also hate Hepburn's delivery in Holiday, though I like the movie well enough.  Guess who directed....Cukor again.  So maybe Hepburn's just his victim in the movies where I take issue with her performance. 

In Bringing Up Baby, I thought Hepburn was just shrill -- but the whole movie was, most of the time.  I absolutely heart Cary Grant, but even he annoys me in BUB.  I did actually like Hepburn very much in Desk Set and The African Queen; so I'm not an across the board Hepburn hater.
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desdemona222b
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« Reply #967 on: July 06, 2007, 10:34:52 PM »

harrie -

I took some online test purporting to discern what accent you have a few months back - sorry but I don't have link.  It was really funny because it told me that my distinctive accent was pure Philadephian.  (I have a generic southern accent!)
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madupont
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« Reply #968 on: July 07, 2007, 02:27:44 AM »

Hepburn did not have a Philadelphia accent. She was from Connecticut and there is something much worse that her inadvertently carrying her theatrical skills to the movie set, which was all it was you know; it was a period transition from going to theatre to going to the movies and she was trained in the theatre. The something worse is:

Watching Cate Blanchett imitate her in  The Aviator for the sake of Leonard Di Caprio.

Kate Hepburn nonetheless was  not just playing elite. She was, and she may have been trying to approximate the accent from down here because she went to school here at Bryn Mawr and would have had contact with others at school who came from the Main Line.  About every year or so, I wander down that way because it is a direct bee-line, and then I look around and say, "Gawd, am I glad, I decided that Bryn Mawr looked funky and having seen better days because this is really a touchy area to live in. If we ever have a social disaster, which of course we can any minute, some blatant act of you know what and people freek, that is not the place to be located.".

Does anyone think Grace Kelly had a Main Line accent?

Ps. I absolute loathe Buckley, but I will finish reading the article because he seems to be on to something. I hate him because he was so impressive when I was young. He made one want to be an intellectual. Just not a crude, nasty mean-spirited unevolved human being like he was.

He must be taking some very interesting medication these days, nothing ordinary, because a year or so ago, I read that periodical and happened upon a page where he was giving a little test to who ever, I think it was directed at children. Now, imagine to yourself what kind of children read
the National Review? There are some, you know. In his childhood, he was the kind of boy who would have been reading it.  Anyway he was being very condescending like Uncle William F and I decided, he has got to be senile. Since he is now apparently much improved, that is some combo his half dozen doctors are prescribing unless he is take trips overseas for clinical growth hormone.

Let's face it, he is not Gore Vidal.  It's all in your parentage, somehow. Who was William F. Buckley,Sr. ?  Never mind, I don't really want to know that much about them.  One junior and senior has been quite enough recently for one life time but then multiply it by the total population here and there, and there too.
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madupont
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« Reply #969 on: July 07, 2007, 02:42:41 AM »

harrie, re:#970

"Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference. "

Hate to break it to you, it is Billy Wilder's fault. He not only directed this play transposed to the movies (It used to be Sabrina Fair, and  I knew the lines from understudy or holding the book, can't remember)but he wrote the script.  I never liked Holden anyway. Looked forward to seeing him in Sunset Strip and it was a big let down.  He always did these cornball roles like, Picnic.

Bogart deserved to get the girl.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #970 on: July 07, 2007, 04:25:34 AM »

William Holden was great in Network.  For that matter so was everyone.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #971 on: July 07, 2007, 04:29:21 AM »

I thought Hepburn was great with Tracy in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, but I can't say I'm awestruck by her.  I don't know what kind of accent she has, but it always struck me as upper crust.  I liked the scene in Aviator were Hughes is invited out to the family estate and can't stand the sight of the food, or the company for that matter.
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whiskeypriest
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« Reply #972 on: July 07, 2007, 07:56:21 AM »

Quote
And The Philadelphia Story -- much as I love it -- contains one of those script things that drives me nuts.  It's that whole "My she was yar..."  and "Am I yar..."  and stuff.  It's just so affected sounding, IMHO.
It's probably been mentioned, but I think she was supposed to sound affected.  Tracy Lord has the upper class upbringing that is supposed to clash with Mike's working class background.

I love TPS unreservedly.  The dialogue is sharper than a seprant's tooth, and Grant is wonderful in it.

Quote
Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference.
You dis Billy Wilder.  I am forced to have to ask you to step outside so that I may defend his memory.  Up with your dukes, ma'am!

Actually, Sabrina is my least favorite Wilder, even with Audrey (sigh), my favorite of the Hepburn twins.  But it is so much better than the remake that I blame the source material for being hopeless.  Also, Wilder was in that neverland between his two great writing partners - Charles Brackett and I. A. L. Diamond, so perhaps that is what's missing.

mad -

Holden is great, especially in Sunset Blvd. which is in demonstrable fact the second greatest movie ever made.  You are just so very wrong.

I am surprised that in the Gerund Movie discussion, no one mentioned Romancing the Stone, and jbottle's favorite movie, Romancing the Bone.
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What does it matter?  All is grace.
harrie
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« Reply #973 on: July 07, 2007, 10:55:38 AM »

harrie, re:#970

"Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference. "

Hate to break it to you, it is Billy Wilder's fault.

I....I.....I just couldn't bring myself to face that possibility.  Despite that one clanger, I run a close second to whiskeypriest in devotion to all things Wilder.  Except for certain aspects of The Fortune Cookie, too.  I'd better stop right now.  Though if whiskeypriest is whupped from moving, maybe I'll do well with the fisticuffs.
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barton
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« Reply #974 on: July 07, 2007, 12:03:24 PM »

Romancing the Stone did cross my mind, in the gerund/noun movie title chat, but I didn't mention it. 

Somewhere between the late 80s and the mid-90s, Kathleen Turner underwent some kind of transformation that caused me to be a little concerned about her health.  I don't follow celebrity lives, but I have wondered if she had some kind of drug problem at that time.


And, while I'm on this bleak subject, I hear that Christian Bale is taking on yet another scarecrow "tuna and apples" role, which I find kind of alarming.  You are pressing your luck, Mr. Bale.


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