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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 40789 times)
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jbottle
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« Reply #1890 on: September 12, 2007, 01:43:34 PM »

I thought there was a movie made of "The Moviegoer," but off to the IMDB.
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madupont
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« Reply #1891 on: September 12, 2007, 01:51:29 PM »

barton,

I agree with you, about your original post but I was so blown away by this production as art; I wrote a poem in this genre back when my friends were in the jungle, and having known a few Mayans guess what?

That is the way they speak, except for Rudy Youngblood(?)whose tribe where he comes from I forget.

Personally, I liked the colloquial incorporation , particularly,"Hey! I am Walking Here".  With a tree crashing down, it seemed very fitting; not only to express the personality but the overall cultural values. Remember, we are talking about a babbling child covered in sores who is a seer, talk about "magic realism; they don't get heavy with her because they already have.  My European friends who have interacted in the Mayan villages, including hidalgo temple hunters in the Guatemalan rain forest have a wide range of views on the good-naturedness, helpfullness but also old religion aspects of interacting with the Maya. But for a people who take atahuasca to be able to see and talk like that little girl did, you take what you get. When my white friends try that stuff, I do try to keep them out of the house but don't always succeed because they figure they can walk through walls, and they inevitably just wait until I am not around because it means the same thing to them. So I do understand why "Walking Here" stands back when confronted with reality's magic you might say.  Whatever works because obviously this is a culture that left bands of children following after enslaved adults and you ponder are they going to end up like the European version of great literature with all these young'uns on an island until they end up with Piggy's head on a stick?  My personal view has always been the Mayans did not disappear, anthropologists have since discovered that is the case, all those deserted kids survived in the forest more or less with a drop-out rate as aptly demonstrated by the adults in this film.

I certainly agree ,"On the whole, though, the film is too kinetic for dialog to be that much of a concern." as was readily conveyed by how they address other unseen people as soon as they sense their presence. And how this triggers the nightmare or prophetic dream; and why the Senior's admonition that you do not let fear enter in. Interesting value system.

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madupont
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« Reply #1892 on: September 12, 2007, 01:52:25 PM »

I thought there was a movie made of "The Moviegoer," but off to the IMDB.


Me, too. jbottle
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1893 on: September 12, 2007, 02:35:59 PM »

Seems like it never got released,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120761/
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jbottle
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« Reply #1894 on: September 12, 2007, 02:43:44 PM »

Yeah, looks that way.  I did see that Donal Logue is in pre-production to direct "The Second Coming," with Bill Paxton attached presumably in the lead, could be interesting.
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #1895 on: September 12, 2007, 03:15:50 PM »

Finally rented Apocalypto.  Thumbs up for cinematography and a kind of simplicity of storyline that moved along nicely -- together, the result was something rather spellbinding.  I did question the need to have everyone learn their lines in Mayan, especially when the subtitle would occasionally be a modern clanker -- in one place, a guy is mortally wounded, and someone says, "He's fucked!"  Really?  Is that how Mayans would express that?  On the whole, though, the film is too kinetic for dialog to be that much of a concern.


"Apocalypto" *** SPOILERS ***

Good point re: "He's fucked" - I must have noticed that since I did read the subtitles, but at the time it didn't register as a distraction for me.  

I guess I was just too enthralled or whatever with the performances of the cast members, only one of whom (the guy who played the bad guy, Zero Wolf) had any acting experience whatsoever.   I was particulary moved by the performance of the guy who played the character who was the butt of the jokes in the beginning of the movie - the "big galoot" guy with the fertility problems, etc.  

When the bad guys ravaged the village and they had him tied up and were having their way with his wife in front of him, that was a tough scene to watch, no doubt.  Usually when I'm watching a movie and something bad is happening, it doesn't really bother me because I know they're all actors and the guy who is stabbing the other guy with a knife will be eating donuts at the snack table with that same guy 5 minutes later.  

It's not a "refusal to suspend disbelief" issue or anything like that, it's just how I see it.  It doesn't prevent me from enjoying the movie - on the contrary, and by way of example, I like a lot of monster movies, including "The Descent", which I liked a lot.  However, I didn't find it "deeply disturbing" or "tough to watch" just because these monsters were scary-looking and trying to kill the scared and screaming protagonists, etc., because hey, it's a monster movie, and they'll all eat donuts together at the snack table later, etc.  

Anyways, back to "Apocalypto", I found that village-ravaging scene to be disturbing/tough-to-watch, notwithstanding the whole donuts/snack-table thing, simply because of the acting the big-galoot guy did during the scene in which he's made to watch his wife being violated.   The act of the village being ravaged and women being violated is very bad, but the donut/snack-table notion still would have been there for me (again, that's not a bad thing at all - it's just always been in my movie-watching disposition) were it not for the fact that I was so moved by the big-galoot guy's reaction.

Maybe I'm giving him too much credit because I knew he was a novice actor - i.e., maybe if it was an actor whose work I had seen, his performance in that scene wouldn't have resonated as strongly with me, I don't know.   In any event, that's part of what I liked so much about "Apocalypto", in addition to, just generally, it was really really good-looking.  Mel Gibson is as crazy as a football bat, no doubt about it, but the guy really does know how to make a really good-looking movie.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 03:20:48 PM by oilcanboyd23 » Logged
ponderosa
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« Reply #1896 on: September 12, 2007, 03:31:39 PM »


Personally, I liked the colloquial incorporation , particularly,"Hey! I am Walking Here".  


In Spanish, "¿Adonde andas?" literally translates to "Where are you walking?" but is understood simply as "Where are you?"
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #1897 on: September 12, 2007, 03:34:00 PM »

In Spanish, "¿Adonde andas?" literally translates to "Where are you walking?" but is understood simply as "Where are you?"

In Russian, they say "Me they call Ivan" instead of "My name is Ivan".
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ponderosa
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« Reply #1898 on: September 12, 2007, 03:43:28 PM »

In Spanish, "¿Adonde andas?" literally translates to "Where are you walking?" but is understood simply as "Where are you?"

In Russian, they say "Me they call Ivan" instead of "My name is Ivan".

"Me llamo Juan." My name is Juan. "Me conocen por Juan." They call me Juan.

(or something like that. i learned spanish... er, tex-mex, on the streets. flunked most every class i took)
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madupont
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« Reply #1899 on: September 12, 2007, 04:13:17 PM »

Ponderosa, i did make the distinction between the two kinds of scene, those dealing with the unknown presence of animal,hostiles,non-hostiles, and the polite protocol but I don't get "where are you walking? as response to a tree crashing to the ground along  captive-march since the Adonde  is the  to where for the andas of going.  I should get an "yo soy",  if they were speaking Spanish which is not what I heard.

Atahuasca anyone?
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #1900 on: September 12, 2007, 04:16:06 PM »

Atahuasca anyone?

Never on the first date.
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ponderosa
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« Reply #1901 on: September 12, 2007, 04:22:17 PM »

Ponderosa, i did make the distinction between the two kinds of scene, those dealing with the unknown presence of animal,hostiles,non-hostiles, and the polite protocol but I don't get "where are you walking? as response to a tree crashing to the ground along  captive-march since the Adonde  is the  to where for the andas of going.  I should get an "yo soy",  if they were speaking Spanish which is not what I heard.


If a Tejano is speaking of that which he do not know does anybody understand?

Ma. I wasn't making reference to trees falling in the forest. Just offering what little I know of Spanish.
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #1902 on: September 12, 2007, 06:13:36 PM »



Javier Bardem
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“Other people's obsessions
are more often funny than tragic.”
—Vincent Canby, The New York Times
madupont
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« Reply #1903 on: September 12, 2007, 10:25:34 PM »

Ponderosa, i did make the distinction between the two kinds of scene, those dealing with the unknown presence of animal,hostiles,non-hostiles, and the polite protocol but I don't get "where are you walking? as response to a tree crashing to the ground along  captive-march since the Adonde  is the  to where for the andas of going.  I should get an "yo soy",  if they were speaking Spanish which is not what I heard.


If a Tejano is speaking of that which he do not know does anybody understand?

Ma. I wasn't making reference to trees falling in the forest. Just offering what little I know of Spanish.


Well, yes, I have friends from there too at Crystal City,Texas but they refer to themselves as Chicano and not Tejano.  And what little I studied of Spanish was before 1950. Many of them, especially women gathered at my home for reasons intrinsic to women. They bring various things with them so we don't have to go out again and we stay together about three days, some coming from longer distances and some less; as I am sure you probably know, they are used to traveling since birth. Some travel back regularly to the Northern states of Mexico to visit relatives. We used to joke in the city-communes when gathering on Sundays for football games in the park, it was Michoacan Moguls vs. Oaxaca Wizards.
I had a huge supply of copal at the time. A friend of mine who had been traveling back and forth to India had previously lived at Chiapas, at the base or entry point to the Yucatan peninsula but I met my first Mayan through the auspices of the USCPFA who had gone as a part of a delegation to China. People both in Yucatan and coming from the US  were there in the former case to uncover temples but in the later case as artists to copy records.

By coincidence, this is in the news today and you can see what I mean about the language being more varied and much older than Tejano --

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/11/world/americas/11guatxx.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

"... obvious to anyone who scrutinized the details of the embroidery on the traditional Mayan clothes she wore to campaign. She is a Quiche Mayan, from the midwestern highlands. Her indigenous language is different, unintelligible to a local Tz’utujil speaker. Nineteen other Mayan groups live in Guatemala, each linguistically distinct."

Apocalypto was, of course, not filmed there but in Costa Rica.
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #1904 on: September 13, 2007, 01:35:38 AM »



I don't get your snarky tone, today.

Please don’t pay any attention to me…even the gods get snarky every once in awhile.   Wink  The thing is this—I’d like to see something a little more in-depth. Not the usual quibbling over the Menu…“I like this movie—I hate that one…” “I like this actor—I don’t like that one…” “Too much action here—not enough dialog there…”

To me films are the ultimate Artform…ever since Lang’s Metropolis & Pabst’s Pandora’s Box…Perhaps I take films too seriously…Like when Javier Bardem’s name comes up—I think of Reinaldo Arenas and Before Night Falls (2000)…I think of poets and writers—versus the State…Borges and Pound ending up fascist pigs…Reinaldo Arenas done in by the Left…

That’s one thing I miss about the NYTimes…In-depth serious discussions by a Readers Group…Each month—an intellectual discussion with my peers…A Moviegoers Group—perhaps that’s what I'm suggesting...Like the double-header in the History Forum...World History and American History...Perhaps that’s what I was doing with Eraserhead

Movies are like Books…They're not just Entertainment Tonight for me…

The Third Man is the key to the Other
« Last Edit: September 13, 2007, 06:47:04 AM by pugetopolis » Logged

“Other people's obsessions
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