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Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 34156 times)
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madupont
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« Reply #2220 on: October 18, 2007, 02:05:44 PM »


Right now at this very moment it's

Alejandro AmenĂ¡bar's The Others...


Was this the one with Niocole Kidman?  If so -- agree that it was a splendid film.  Sort of like Sixth Sense though in that you can never watch it a second time the same way...fun to watch it a second and third time to see the complexities that you missed.


I think so too. Many people did not get how or why what Kidman assumes is that little girl under the filmy veil (as in dress-up play for little girls) turns out to be an old lady.  There are very few really occult films in this world. Occult implying that there are things that are veiled or occulted from obvious casual view of the passing disinterested stranger who is merely strange to the experience and cannot interpret or could not interpret anymore than numerous other five-sense experiences, that they are unconsious about, allowing for mental cognition that becomes intellect.

Sixth Sense, if we are thinking of the same film by Shyamalan, never captures
this knowledge but only suggest hallucinatory phenomena.  I think that was what I was trying to capture in a previous discussion of his work and inadequately conveyed. He is too caught up in the appearances of things and keeps re-examining this issue in film after film.  There is a specific Hindi term for this in matters of differentiating the form of things from the reality or the existence, I can not recall the word, but it is part of doctrinaire Brahmanic philosophy and, as a film-maker, he has been trying to deal with this for years without succeeding.

Anything taken for a hallucination in The Others is proceeding out of Kidman's acting ability because she is more than adequately skilled in manifesting the psychology that is unconscious to the character that she is acting.  I don't know where she got this from but she does it every time.  It must have been a real pain for her to have to work opposite Tom Cruise who never developed any psychological depth. Did you ever see that ditzy thing she does  in The Stepford Wives for her scenes with Christopher Walken.   That's what I'm talking about as the span between one actor's ability and another's. 

I don't think that Shyamalan is able to induce this "suspension of disbelief" in his actors so that they have any idea what they need to do to make the hallucinatory material believably occult. I suspect they think of it as making a horror film and that's it; something to scare teenagers into continuing to come back to the box office.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 02:08:49 PM by madupont » Logged
harrie
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« Reply #2221 on: October 18, 2007, 02:16:22 PM »

madupont, I'm catching up on yesterday's reading and thought of you (I think it's the Jerry Orbach connection) when I read this.  The article's a little strange, but sweet IMO.  It probably belongs in Theater, but I never go in there, so I'm putting it here. Besides, Kitty Carlisle -- bart, she wasn't in your quiz? -- was in some movies....


http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119258092844161347.html?mod=blogs
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2222 on: October 18, 2007, 02:40:06 PM »

  It must have been a real pain for her to have to work opposite Tom Cruise who never developed any psychological depth.

Smiley 

Day & Night
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2223 on: October 18, 2007, 02:41:33 PM »

I also liked Stanley Tucci as Frank Nitti

He was born to play a gangster.  I'm pretty sure I saw him as Lucky Luciano in something else?
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #2224 on: October 18, 2007, 02:51:38 PM »

Billy Bathgate
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madupont
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« Reply #2225 on: October 18, 2007, 03:24:31 PM »


madupont, I'm catching up on yesterday's reading and thought of you (I think it's the Jerry Orbach connection) when I read this.  The article's a little strange, but sweet IMO.  It probably belongs in Theater, but I never go in there, so I'm putting it here. Besides, Kitty Carlisle -- bart, she wasn't in your quiz? -- was in some movies....


http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119258092844161347.html?mod=blogs


What? We have a theatre?  

(It's all right, harrie, I go in there once in awhile every few months but I don't think that the administrator keeps the replies which are indicative of just what mood I am in that time.)

By the way, Deborah Kerr has just passed away; in my shoes wouldn't you say,"Tea and Sympathy"?

I particularly like the way that the little lady who goes to funerals (in summer) makes the acquaintance of her husbands by reading the obits.

She has a real show-biz attitude about it.

I can tell you why I know so much about some Old Movie Stars(but not others)
and this may sound very weird but when Spalding Gray died and I and a friend were talking about his depressions and that he often did his performance at the McCarter Theatre in Princeton because he was very much a kind of Princeton person, and I was commiserating with my friend because they were in some way related that I don't really quite recall, I just plain came out and asked her, "Do you suppose he was named after his mother's family?"

(she didn't know)..."Because, my great-aunt was talking with her old friend, Ken Spalding (of the Spalding sports equipment dynasty) when some other people had told her she "ought to be in pictures" (she did have a Billie Burke voice; and like the lady in the news-story, and Kitty Carlisle who made a lot of movies, televison shows, and appearances, she was of that far generation when Alfred, or is it Albert?,Spalding played ball and started up his sporting goods in Chicago. She may have been ten years younger.

"Good Heavens, Hazel, no!", the younger Spalding heir replied. " Why ever not?", she responded.  He drew himself up and answered,"They would never receive you at the country club again."

It was true, in those days, movie actresses were fallen women, and that was taken for granted about women in the "theatre"; I was appalled to discover that as late as the 1990s that was still the prevailing attitude among people who don't know all that much about it except that a young female actor has to make her living and has a job to do.  This was said by an executive of one of the pharmaceutical biggies whose young son couldn't understand why she just couldn't be his girlfriend and available all the time because after all they would get married.  Food for thought in more ways than one.


But then, after great-aunt Hazel had told me about Spalding's reply, waiting for me to demonstrate that I  pondered whether she meant that dialogue or not, because she had  what was called "a Gothic sense of humor" of the Dick Cavett sort, she continued with her punch line.

"Spalding and I were lovers, you know..." (unlike Jacob, who was a dear friend?) "...but, he was much too athletic.  In bed.  It was like he was riding to  hounds. So, I married Harry instead who was much more understanding of such things."

I was often the Buster Keaton, dead pan, to her provocative small talk humor of the music hall variety.



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madupont
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« Reply #2226 on: October 18, 2007, 03:31:44 PM »

Zounds, trojanhorse and kidcarter, Nicole Kidman was astoundingly glamorous, in Billy Bathgate.
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2227 on: October 18, 2007, 08:05:24 PM »

Zounds, trojanhorse and kidcarter, Nicole Kidman was astoundingly glamorous, in Billy Bathgate.

I recall Billy Bathgate but don;t remember her in it...funny...


I think this is the other movie that I saw Stanley Tucci playing a gangster in ...right?
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madupont
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« Reply #2228 on: October 19, 2007, 12:03:44 AM »

Many of us didn't really yet know who she was, at the time.
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jbottle
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« Reply #2229 on: October 19, 2007, 01:52:39 AM »

It's official that Rabin is stalking me, I mean, I've basically on the NYTFF and here given him many of the films that need to be revisited on the "it's not really that bad front," but that's my imagination getting ahead of me because I think I should be doing the series instead of NR.  That piece they did on "things you might have missed" or whatever was funny only because if you weren't 17 when Nevermind came out and were already listening to Mudhoney, which basically everybody was, who had any sense, and "Into the Drink," yeah is both an ironic commentary on the fatalism of the metal ideal and a hero cry to empty the shitty rental of all the alcohol there. 

Note:  I once after a Jim Beam induced wrestling match was in a smash up with a curb (not driving, but said turn here too quick) which blew out two, what '88 Accord coupe righty tires, he didn't miss by much, but yeah, I was like "we need to split," and he was already running and we laughed all the three blocks home.

We were listening to Mudhoney at the time.

But "Strange Days" did have a sort of allure to it, hell, I thought it would be a hit when I saw the trailer (probably for that dinosaur Spielburg one, II, where I didn't know what else to do with the girl, but something seemed to prolong the agony, bid...

"Strange Days," refer to Nathan Rabin's "My Year of Flops" series, indeed, had the kind of trailer that made you think it was going to be the first millennial internet web slacker movie, and then the screenplay devolves into a boring noir with an LA badcop backbone.

Make people on drugs if they're on drugs...I mean...why couldn't the metaphor of virtual reality be a thing on the level of moneterily and otherwise, like dope, like hey, do you want this meth or this Jessica Biel thing where she's on top of you...I kind of thought that's where they were going, and it was fucking hinted at in that awful one of the last Natalie Wood movies with Dennis Quaid, but more like tapping into the brain experimentally, vs. whatever Woody Allen and the Freudians were doing in the 1970's, hell, I was in support of SCIENCE, but it turned out to just be a snuff film joke and a "why can't we all just get along" joint, a fiasco, but not so miscast, but more not thought out.  I mean, I felt for Angela Bassett with the Compton scenes as much as I went, what, why is Ralph Fiennes not have an agent with any sense, etc., bravo for sales to the audience of one, lousy proto-noir with an eye toward the boilerplate.
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madupont
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« Reply #2230 on: October 19, 2007, 01:59:30 AM »

I didn't notice Tucci in the cast, while over at imdb and laughing my ... well, you get the picture.  IT CAME BACK TO ME BIT BY BIT, as I read viewers reviews. This is a Dutch Schultz picture of the Bronx, strictly Jewish mafia and maybe the numbers racket per se; I had a girlfriend who said her father did numbers(in fact that was how I met her because she came out from the East Coast to the Midwest to stay with her mother and get to know her better; she had been raised entirely within one of her father's "other" families.

I knew there was a reason that I didn't like this movie and it is Dustin Hoffman as Dutch Schultz.  But, they gave themselves a very good playwright to do the screen-writing, Tom Stoppard, who was at the time, the  British genius next in line following Jonathan Miller; which is why viewers have very mixed reactions to this film.

You see, the one image that I immediately have when you say Billy Bathgate is Nicole Kidman either getting into a dress or getting out of a dress, I'm not sure which but it was the opener -- and it is a little like the topic we had in celebreality today, oddly, because the first thing that you get at this film is Kidman stark naked and things stay that way. People were not used to this and she is very uninhibited. In fact, she made it an art on Broadway, and in films for which you have to remember that she came here from Australia and did oodles of work there both in films and tv.  

Billy Bathgate seems to be the film that she made like the meat between two pieces of white bread  both with Tom Cruise, Day of Thunder, about racing cars -- and Far and Away, more racing but prairie schooners.

What I am looking forward to is a film that she is working on that is another one of her literary genre films, The Reader, in which Nicole plays one of those women who worked in concentration camps because it was in the neighborhood.  It will be a wowser; unless they pull it. David Hare, who previously did the screen-writing of things like, Plenty, for Meryl Streep to perform when she was Nicole Kidman's age, will be doing the screen-writing for The Reader. Or, probably already has.

I checked again and guess who Stanley Tucci was? Lucky Luciano who sticks it to Dustin Hoffman by leaving him the dregs of the action. This was the kind of movie (that still is) for which they place the warning remarks, "some full frontal nudity and sexual content"..."as well as violence".   Since Nicole is the nude, and we know that Luciano made it to Italy(deported) but redeemed himself with the US because of his war effort, we have to guess whether it is Hoffman taking out somebody in an intimation of Sparks Steakhouse or does he get rubbed out? From all intimations of Dutch Schultz's penchant for violence, he must be the perp.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #2231 on: October 19, 2007, 07:18:02 AM »

Anyone seen,

The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808724433/info
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ponderosa
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« Reply #2232 on: October 19, 2007, 10:12:44 AM »

Anyone seen,

The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808724433/info

Haven't walked out of a movie since Addam's Family, but left this one after ninety minutes. I kept hanging on waiting for something to happen but knowing going in that it ran two hours plus I grew restless and left. It looked pretty cool and there is some interesting stuff going on, but it moves very slowly. Maybe I'll rent it down the road and see how it ends.  Shocked
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2233 on: October 19, 2007, 10:41:55 AM »

Many of us didn't really yet know who she was, at the time.

yeah, no, I remember her from when I first saw Dead Calm.  She's not someone you tend to forget.  Did she play the role of the girlfriend of the gangster?  I'll be darned but I just don't remember it being her...
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2234 on: October 19, 2007, 10:45:47 AM »


I checked again and guess who Stanley Tucci was? Lucky Luciano who sticks it to Dustin Hoffman by leaving him the dregs of the action.

I knew I remembered him as Luciano in some movie and when you brought up Billy Bathgate it sort of rang a bell.

When you just brought up Dustin Hoffman it reminds me of him in another gangster role also, but it was in the cartoon-esque, Dick Tracy.
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