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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 40833 times)
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barton
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« Reply #2430 on: November 02, 2007, 11:24:06 AM »

Yeah, Shannon's boss was brilliantly played.  I've worked in an office job, and he seemed completely real.  I think the movie, generally, had a good humorous take on the hypocrisy we all have, to some degree, about what we eat.  I think White has some clever camera work, as when Shannon and her niece visit the rescue-farm, and he lets the camera observe the chickens milling around in such a way that most viewers, I think, are going to find it hard not to say to themselves, "It's just a bunch of chickens."   He sort of does that with his people shots, too -- a kind of naked observation that lets their characters show, sometimes to great comic effect.


As for plants, I sort of doubt they feel pain, but that whole debate is moot, given that we have to eat something to survive.   The only diet you could eat that wouldn't be taking a life of some kind would be fruit, potatoes, and nuts, whose harvesting doesn't kill the plant.

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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2431 on: November 02, 2007, 11:39:51 AM »

As for plants, I sort of doubt they feel pain, but that whole debate is moot, given that we have to eat something to survive.   The only diet you could eat that wouldn't be taking a life of some kind would be fruit, potatoes, and nuts, whose harvesting doesn't kill the plant.

Bingo - and that, I think, is the whole basis of the "cruelty free" thing.  Eat to live, don't live to eat, etc.  It's the idea that we are humans and intelligent/advanced and so forth, and if a diet of fruit, potatoes and nuts is enough to sustain us, then we should be intelligent enough or advanced enough or whatever to just eat those things and thereby avoid cruelty to the greatest degree we possibly can. 

Sure, you can't avoid cruelty entirely.  Even the president of PETA has squished a bug or two, even if only by accident.  Heck, we all probably eat microscopic bugs all day long without even knowing it.   But all of that notwithstanding, I think the "cruelty free" concept is that you just do your best not to hurt anything, and you just NAILED it with the whole fruit/potatoes/nuts thing.  PETA disagrees with you, and says that a vegan lifestyle can be cruelty-free.  I don't see how that's possible when the whole plants-pain thing is only a theory.  Like you, I doubt that plants feel pain of any form, or the plant-equivalent of "pain," whatever that may be, but I have no way of knowing for certain.

In any event, I'll keep eating meat because it's delicious and I'm hooked. 

« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 11:42:45 AM by oilcanboyd23 » Logged
madupont
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« Reply #2432 on: November 02, 2007, 11:54:39 AM »

Did I just wander into Food Matters?

jbottle,re:#2442

"because you need to focus in on who becomes the one obsessed.  If you start off, "I don't like Josh Hartnett," a fair knock, then you are unlikely to be drawn into one of the better movies made this year. "

harrie,re:#2446
"jbottle, you're right.  Not handling Josh Hartnett well is a lame excuse to dump a movie, especially a DePalma --which I guess I either didn't realize, or forgot or whatever.  But Hartnett's just so distractingly
bad!"

I'm willing to go fifty/fifty on this. jbottle said a mouthful:"you need to focus in on who becomes the one obsessed", because (contrary to popular opinion created by most reviewers) it was,"one of the better movies made this year".

Like Harrie, I wasn't even thinking Di Palma since that reminds me too much of a guy with whom I went to high-school when they were making a gesture to the Italian community(what if it turned out to be him?);and, yes, I agree with her that "Not handling Josh Harnett well is a lame excuse to dump a movie".  Of course, I may have misinterpreted but I thought she was saying that Di Palma had not handled the actor well and thus "dumped" the movie; but, maybe she really meant she couldn't handle Josh in the role,as he was looking like a cub detective in a Joe Friday episode of Dragnet because of dual influx of influences. And maybe she was using the term like my friend formerly in San Francisco, last home-based in San Diego, who used the expression "dump" in numerous interesting ways from "let's split this dump" to expressing that a movie should be dumped on. She was the one who turned me on to Terence Stamp, or Toby Dammit by Fellini,also known as Don't Lose Your Head to the Devil

When John Gregory Dunne writes the story as speculative fiction with a movie in mind of course because that is what Dunne and Didion did for a living out there in Hollywoodland (I liked that latter for Adrian Brody, sorry, And the girl who looked like the Black Dahlia), Dunne puts in a detective as a main character who becomes Robert Duvall ; obviously, Di Palma can't hire him all over again.

When James Ellroy tells the story of the two detectives whom we end up seeing living as a duo with Scarlett Johansson in the angora sweater, they do not sound anything like Di Palma's dynamic duo who are just not rough enough guys to be handling this material when you understand that Ellroy has seen these detectives almost all of his life since the day that his mother did not come home from a date.

To be sure, Di Palma allows one of them to get obsessed about something, and the other to get obsessed about women(both Johansson and Swank) which is of course what you can expect out of Harnett. He should be dumped on or dumped, which ever your preference but he did not spoil the over all movie for me. I got that. Harnett even plays the scenes with really nice composure at the table of the crazy family that you have to  believe were Di Palma's Homage to The Addams Family which I think was a big mistake. They should have been taken more seriously for a real Film Noir.  Face it Hilary Swank did her part, while the director made a mad choice that doesn't feel right because it cut corners (no pun intended). Always remember Raul Julia would have handled this characterization differently since he was an actor.

Swank and Johansson carry this movie, The playmate that James Ellroy had in mind for Scarlett  Johansson was Nick Nolte, who apologizes for his face(which he probably fell on), when he didn't need to because Ellroy would probably not have found that disqualified him, the character was an LAPD boxing champion which you do not see come across with Di Palma's direction. Ellroy's detectives lead a far more seedy yet glamourous film noir life of the times than Di Palma updated us into.  Di Palma's dicks are lightweights who look and behave at times like highschool boys or at least frat boys which I seem to recall something about where Harnett got his start but in any case they would not have been in a weight class to handle what they would have had to around LA in any direction.  I remember checking the neighborhood lay-out and wow! those were the days! There was still space to build real houses back then.

The apartment used for a house (for the triangle motivation) was straight out of Maya Deren and I liked that touch because that is real Obsession.
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2433 on: November 02, 2007, 12:47:20 PM »

  Do you think it will ever be solved? 

No.

Based on what I have seen so far it sounded like a "message" that was being sent.  And given that the detective working the case was killed, it sounds like someone pretty powerful wanted the story to stay quite.

I think the teory was that  she was killed in a bath tub and was comletely cleaned up. I believe she was even completely drained of blood.  So likelhood even of any DNA that could be found now would be extremely remote.

The only chance now would be someone that survived and knew the true story coming forward to talk now. 

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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2434 on: November 02, 2007, 12:54:13 PM »


As for plants, I sort of doubt they feel pain, but that whole debate is moot, given that we have to eat something to survive.   The only diet you could eat that wouldn't be taking a life of some kind would be fruit, potatoes, and nuts, whose harvesting doesn't kill the plant.


Sure but then you get into the whole "when does life begin" debate...   Is it ok to eat eggs?  Why then seeds?
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TrojanHorse
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« Reply #2435 on: November 02, 2007, 12:58:41 PM »

Swank and Johansson carry this movie


Interesting.  Now that you mention it...I think you're right.   I thought Swank was fantastic.  And while I don't really care for Johansson typically, there is no denying that she is well sutied for this type of role as her particular "look" is most remininscint of this 40s/50s era IMO.  Her acting style lends itself better to that era also...not sure that is a compliment...but it seems to be true.
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barton
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« Reply #2436 on: November 02, 2007, 01:10:29 PM »

Trojan, are store eggs fertilized?  I know little about such matters, but don't they just give the hen some kind of drug that makes her lay eggs, sans rooster contribution.  I know this is a film thread digression, given it's only slender relevance to "Year of the Dog," but what the heck. 

I respect Oilcan being honest about being "hooked on" meat.  Refreshing, after hearing so many people hem and haw about being "semi vegitarians" or whatever.   It's much easier to be veg'n if you were a kid like me, who tended to view the meat portion as less interesting than the other stuff on the plate.   Seemed like there'd always be a piece of steak that was this gray and overly chewy lump, not very tasty.  And chicken I usually liked more for what was coating it or drizzled on it.  Chicken by itself seemed tasteless.  It's likely that my parents were not great cooks.

If I couldn't have dairy, though, I'd die.  And no teats have to be murdered to make milk.

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desdemona222b
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« Reply #2437 on: November 02, 2007, 01:14:23 PM »

But I thought you were vegan, Bart.  Guess I misunderstood.

I've tried to cut down on the amount of meat I eat, and I've succeeded somewhat, but I find that I get terribly hungry if I don't have a little meat with my meal.

I'm just testing one of the formatting symbols here to see what you get.
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desdemona222b
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« Reply #2438 on: November 02, 2007, 01:15:07 PM »

I see that when you put in the grid symbols nothing happens.
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madupont
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« Reply #2439 on: November 02, 2007, 01:50:27 PM »

TrojanHorse,re: #2456

Exactly, why I said that the end solution in the latest film,The Black Dahlia, should not have been a cover story played for laughs.  Ellroy posits that someone pretty powerful and describes the house. The little that I read on the movie makings was that this thread described in the book was altered when the role was filled with Hilary Swank, not because of her but she does either offset  or set-up the lesbian factors Ellroy writes about.          

We do see Swank's character coming from a remotely(in more ways than one) wealthy family.  The back story makes clear that a scene employed in the film (in fact there are several audition films of Betty Short, according to this latest version and in it which seems to be fed from Dunne's book because he is most familiar with film making, that never in fact existed.   Point of the back sheet from the case files, if there were studio or non-studio, as implied in this film,"hobbyist porno flics", they would be worth a fortune; and just maybe they were? The detectives on the case suggest going all the way to the border crossing into  Mexico to find this ring of illicit film-makers in the fictional writing. What we see in the film of Dunne's work, with Duvall on the case, and De Niro holding his hand because they are brothers (like Dominick and John Gregory Dunne), is some explicit footage suggesting the porno industry as a back-street out of town industry. Explicit in that the camera shoots a setting.

In The Black Dahlia you get an explicit movie of two hired actresses that gets "cut" at the showing to Harnett's superior officer, implying the superior is a prude, who turns around and sacks Harnett, takes him off the case or suspends him which Ellroy referrs to in his book. Ellroy has to have a motive for why these two cops take turns hanging around 'the house' for this psychological menage a trois filled out nicely by Johansson.

'I think the theory was that  she was killed in a bath tub and was completely cleaned up. I believe she was even completely drained of blood." Ellroy writes of finding the blood-stained scene of the crime. Dunne also comes up with that out of town/out of state  and he makes it political with a little old blood for production values when it gets filmed; although Ellroy has been up there in the Mullholland Drive territory. Di Palma doesn't get permission to use much in the way of locations so he has to work on a lot  and play make believe visually.

What I was suggesting to harrie was that the body publicity for the film made us grow accustommed to seeing was not what was found. No journalist pictures were ever published. In the film,The Black Dahlia, they tease you with apparent overhead shots that zoom up again so that you get the effect of seeing the body with a neat mid-line cross section. It is as stark white with dark hair against darkening lighting as the camera goes upward as if this was the Lulu shot in '29 as pugetopolis describes Pabst.

The body was face down in the empty lot, with various theories why the nearest of the nearby suspects would have done a bipartite "section" to easier transport the body to the lot theoretically a block away from where he lived.  Fascinating.

But when the body was turned over it became apparent that she had lain in that position for a period of time because blood had collected in the tissues on the upper or rather the ventral surface of the body and not on the dorsal surface (and you would not have had that aesthetic picturesque neat shot of the post-mortem exam explanation to the cops,etc.) to make the film "interesting".

As I said earlier, I enjoyed transcribing autopsies because they are like poems complete. As the doctor in charge dictates his procedure, he gives a complete description of everything he observes; and essentially, you have an accurate picture of that person's entire life in one document of some brevity.  What I did not enjoy was the depression that ensues from transcribing post surgical mistakes made upon the living when you transcribe in a hospital setting. I was glad when that job was over.

You have to realize my father was a professor of anatomy and I made my first visit to Gross Anatomy, where he taught, in my second year of high-school. He had by then been training me to type up all his teaching resources in surgical procedure, for card catalogue since we were pre-computer, ever since I was thirteen for about the next eight years. No social security from that job. There were side-benefits however as we went out to a medical convention in San Francisco where they were probably still discussing the case of The Black Dahlia, as it was just two years after that occurred, and for the very good reason that it had caused a major upsetting disturbance in the entire medical community of California!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 02:04:16 PM by madupont » Logged
madupont
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« Reply #2440 on: November 02, 2007, 01:57:38 PM »

Don't worry Barton. I couldn't eat meat for months after that visit to Gross Anatomy.    My father always used to urge me to eat beef as a "young lady", which i realize now was because many young girls my age at that time developed anemia or "green sickness"; but also he had a deprived childhood and he was making up for lost time.  He would wince when I'd prefer to eat seafood; of course, nowadays, you have to be very specific where that comes from to get anything healthy to eat.

Don't worry, you are probably not that much of a fussy eater. My husband was a complete vegetarian.
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harrie
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« Reply #2441 on: November 02, 2007, 02:15:59 PM »

maduont,
...I thought she was saying that Di Palma had not handled the actor well and thus "dumped" the movie; - No

but, maybe she really meant she couldn't handle Josh in the role - Yes

I'm sorry, I just don't like him, or perhaps I should say his work, and I don't know how he keeps getting hired.  Who knows, maybe TBD will change my thinking on that.


bart,
Sorry to pass on your Year of the Dog comments previously.   I will watch this some day, but can't for about two reasons:  1) I lost a great dog in the past year; and much as I don't want to be one of those whiny people who tears up at the thought of her, that's still where I am.  Once I get past that, YotD is on.  (For the record, Old Yeller and Homeward Bound are permanently banned at my house.)  And 2)  I'm afraid I'll see myself in the PETA-like characters they skewer.  Which would be nothing new, because we all have our idiot moments, etc. 

Speaking of Molly Shannon "who knew?!" moments, she showed up in Marie Antoinette as a noble lady of some kind.  It was distracting, because we spent a minute or two saying "Is that Molly Shannon?  Looks like her.  Gotta be.  What's she doing here?" etc.


I too am a meat-eating hypocrite, but lobster is my most egregious sin.  I'm such a sissy I won't even kill my own - I make the hubby do the dirty work and I leave the room and everything.  But I'm right there with the melted butter when it's time to chow down.   I feel shame.  Moreso, I feel the craving for a large cockroach of the sea coming on.

Desdemona, in the preview mode, the print after you hit the grid symbols looks a size larger than the print before. 

« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 02:38:44 PM by harrie » Logged
oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2442 on: November 02, 2007, 02:19:06 PM »

Once I get past that, YotD is on.  (For the record, Old Yeller and Homeward Bound are permanently banned at my house.)  And 2)  I'm afraid I'll see myself in the PETA-like characters they skewer.  Which would be nothing new, because we all have our idiot moments, etc. 

I didn't perceive anyone as getting skewered in "YOTD".  I didn't find the movie to be judgmental of any of the characters. 
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Donotremove
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« Reply #2443 on: November 02, 2007, 02:38:20 PM »

Barton, chickens (hens) lay eggs as a natural function of being a female chicken.  They do not need be fertilized by a male chicken (rooster.)  The hormones fed to chickens is for tenderness of the meat and larger growth (range chickens are skinny as compared to "factory" chickens.)  BTW, that big breasted turkey in your freezer waiting for Thanksgiving?  He/she is bred to that big breast with the help of hormones and other drugs.  In fact, the BB turkeys have to be killed at X point since their legs can no longer support that unnatural weight.

All the same, I'll be having turkey for thanksgiving.
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harrie
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« Reply #2444 on: November 02, 2007, 03:02:35 PM »

I didn't perceive anyone as getting skewered in "YOTD".  I didn't find the movie to be judgmental of any of the characters. 

Okay, maybe my bad. From some of the reviews and other stuff I read, I thought Molly Shannon's experience was treated as a descent, as in descent-into-madness type of thing, hanging with those .  But if you say it's not there, okay -- I'll cross off Reason #2.
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