Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Movies  (Read 52814 times)
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2715 on: December 03, 2007, 08:16:06 PM »

au contraire.  ultimately the source of pure evil in NCFOM cared nothing about the money.

He didn't "care" about it in the sense that Moss was inspired to take it or Wells was inspired to find it, etc., but the money was still the source/cause of the evil, which came in the form of Chigurh.  He had principles, a twisted code, etc., but he still viewed himself as having been hired to retrieve the money. 

That's why he was particularly agitated with the man behind the desk in the big-city office ("Man Who Hires Wells" is the name of the character in the credits, I think), even going so far as to derive satisfaction by standing over him to watch him bleed to death after he shot him.  The accountant standing behind him explained that the shot man figured it would be better to send more than one person after the money, and Chigurh stops him with "That's foolish.  You pick the right tool for the job."

Chigurh is pure evil/violence/etc., but there's no getting around the fact that it was the money that brought him upon Moss. 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2007, 08:29:20 PM by oilcanboyd23 » Logged
oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2716 on: December 03, 2007, 08:24:58 PM »

Money figures in to "Jaws" in that nature vs. civilization, particularly the tourism economy of the beach community that is at risk, is the central conflict that pushes the action.  It's what makes a sheriff chase a shark, a community hire a marine biologist and a salty dog to chase the boogeyman away:  $$$.

Word.

---

MAYOR VAUGHN

Amity is a summer town.  We need summer dollars.

---

I totally agree that money caused deaths in that they should have closed the beaches, etc., but I don't know if that rises to the level of being the source/root of the evil.  That the shark ate people wasn't caused by money, but it was aided by it.   I think there's a difference there - oh, and not that there's anything evil about the shark being hungry, he's just trying to sustain himself, etc., but still.
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2717 on: December 03, 2007, 08:26:33 PM »

Of course, it becomes more about these different perspectives on the shark, law, science, and the knowlege that the sea doesn't care about either in Quint. 

Mark it - and let's not forget Quint's whole thing with the USS Indianapolis, the delivery of The Bomb, effect on global, uhh, economic... uhh...
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jbottle
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« Reply #2718 on: December 03, 2007, 11:01:52 PM »

I had forgotten about the delivery of the bomb talk in the movie...it's one of those movies where characters necessarily begin to *level*, like "The Edge," maybe, or maybe not, but to the extent that they bring a world view that is queer or contradictory to the other guy, there's that education and especially on a boat, or in the wild, escalated feeling of trust or distrust.  I've never thought of "Jaws" as being that allegorical at all, by the way, it's kind of like in "The Edge" where Charles says that he always wanted to do something "unequivocal," there's you and the shark, or the bear, and it's a sort of a relief from civilization and equivocation, but not for long because the bear or shark is fairly unequivocal as well.
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Urethra_Franklin
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« Reply #2719 on: December 04, 2007, 12:21:02 AM »

I'm not exactly sure what it is about Coen brother films, but the dialogue just seems much more "authentic" to me.


They're the most creative screenwriter(s)/directors of this generation.
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« Reply #2720 on: December 04, 2007, 12:28:05 AM »

Has anyone heard of a prequel to "The Departed" being released in the near future?  I remember hearing a rumor.....
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2721 on: December 04, 2007, 10:41:29 AM »

I'm not exactly sure what it is about Coen brother films, but the dialogue just seems much more "authentic" to me.

Word!!  A common complaint of their detractors is that the dialogue is "mannered" or "too written" or something, and I totally disagree.   I think they're mistaking excellence for overcooking.   

Take "The Big Lebowski" for example, and count the Dude's "uuhhh"s and stammers and pauses and so forth, like in the limousine scene when he explains the "she kidnapped herself, man..." to the Big Lebowski, and then think about the fact that ALL of that is written in the script.    I also like the story from the extras on the "Fargo" DVD, in which Peter Stormare recalls Ethan Coen falling out of his chair when he said the line, "Where is the pancake house"?  Ethan said "cut" and politely asked Stormare to review the line with him, the correct reading of which was, "Where is pancakes house?"  Stormare said he assumed it was a typo, and Ethan assured him, no, we don't make typos, let's try it like it's written, etc.

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martinbeck3
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« Reply #2722 on: December 04, 2007, 11:07:29 AM »

I agree,the Coens are the very best and Frances McDormand their best actor.
I can watch Fargo forever.
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BorisBartenov
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« Reply #2723 on: December 04, 2007, 11:11:20 AM »

That way of speaking defines Stormare's character -- a certain inarticulate quality.  I hadn't caught that, but I'm sure my brain picked it up at some level.  And three films later, lo, there is a guy named Pancake.  Just like there's a hotel called Barton Arms in "Miller's Crossing."  

And what were the nihilists (including Stormare) eating at the restaurant, in TBL -- could it have been....?

I'm so hungry now.


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harrie
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« Reply #2724 on: December 04, 2007, 06:55:11 PM »

Technically it was lingenberry pancakes and sree picks in blanket, but yeah. 

(Everyone probably already knows this, but Jeff Bridges has a link to the script on jeffbridges.com.) 
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jbottle
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« Reply #2725 on: December 04, 2007, 07:05:01 PM »

The Onion's Coen guide failed to appreciate what the Coens do with enough clarity or distinction.  The order of the "essential" films didn't even include "Miller's Crossing," arguably their best film, and included "The Man Who Wasn't There," which is good, but not at all on the level of "Barton Fink," MC, "Raising Arizona," saying at one point that the film hasn't aged well when it hasn't aged appreciably at all, and is every bit as good today as then.  When was a comparably wildly funny movie made since for that matter?  Also, to get tied up on the first scene of the Clooney studio one which I believe they only co-wrote was especially short-sighted, and equally out of place was the praise of "The Hudsucker Proxy," a failure with some good jokes and a terrible screwball comedy broad performance by JJL who was the same as her Dorothy Parker except on meth and less droll and depressed.  (She was actually good in "Ms. Parker..." but the construct of the interspersed poetry readings was cringe-inducing)  I just thought for a primer it failed to identify the best from the middling, and what I consider to be true though most disagree, that "Fargo" is probably their 5th or 6th best film behind "O Brother, Where Art Thou?"

I don't know, it just seemed like they failed to "get it" outside of the idea that the detractors usually hate and criticize exactly what fans enjoy.  It seemed underwritten and not thought through all the way, even if "Fargo" is better than I think.
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2726 on: December 04, 2007, 07:30:36 PM »

The Onion's Coen guide failed to appreciate what the Coens do with enough clarity or distinction.

I agree, but it was still nice to see the effort.
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jbottle
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« Reply #2727 on: December 04, 2007, 07:59:31 PM »

Oh, yeah, but it was written as more of a "puff piece" about filmmakers the writers at the Onion respect more than that, I think they probably realize that it was a little shallow even at the point of conception of the article, and they're not given to lengthy dissections of a body of work or anything, so it just looked like something cranked off the top of somebody's head in about an hour, but still, yeah, I agree that if it can get somebody to see "Barton Fink," great, I guess I was just upset that they didn't hail MC as a work of near unparalleled genius.  Really enjoy the "my summer of flops" that turned into "my year of flops" by Rabin, I guess he's got a book there if people buy those kinds of books anymore.
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madupont
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« Reply #2728 on: December 04, 2007, 08:01:35 PM »

Harrie, I adore lingonberries from the jar over "fat little pancakes" with sourcream on the side.  I guess it's that season.
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oilcanboyd23
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« Reply #2729 on: December 04, 2007, 08:44:22 PM »

Really enjoy the "my summer of flops" that turned into "my year of flops" by Rabin, I guess he's got a book there if people buy those kinds of books anymore.

That was a great idea.  I also like "Films That Time Forgot" (which includes an entry on "The Party Animal"), but MYOF is better.  Rabes nailed "O.C. & Stiggs" (Secret Success, of course) with a very thoughtful analysis, even though he did eschew a thorough look at the lobsters element, and more egregiously, the bird-sh*t scene at the Schwab wedding.
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