Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
January 23, 2018, 12:56:19 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: As you may have noticed, this is a very old backup, I'm still working through restoring the site.  Don't be surprised if you post and it all goes missing....
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 266 267 [268] 269 270 ... 300
  Print  
Author Topic: Movies  (Read 34264 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4005 on: April 24, 2008, 01:28:58 PM »

Posted before I scrolled back and oil, I think you're description of the scene does it justice, I remember that scene, too, and having to rewind to figure out WTF, but there's a lot of that in "Ticker," evidently ("From the director of 'Ticker'") Pyun's proudest moment with "big stars" in the film, but you know dude's got some stories to tell from JCVD in full coke blast at the time of the Pyun film, and Seagal ("he's impossible"), and "Cyborg" with the guy that used to be married to Diane Lane.  Kurosawa??  Totally awesome.  I just read the bio myself and now may have to see his entire body of work, in sequential order.  I love, love how "creative restraints" often require him to shoot two movies at the same time to utilize existing locations.  You only get to blow something up once, right, too, and in "Submerged," Seagal (you see his face) does a semi-dive (presumably to a mattress off-screen (does his own 'stunt') even though he is clearly 50 yds. away from the actual explosion.  Priceless.

Bart, sigboth is more like "Angelina Jolie on Pizza," and Jbottle has been variously described as "movie stars" and "sports figures" as varied as Hugh Grant (when there was floppy hair) or Phil Mickelson (as I gained weight), and handsome as neither.  I used to jokingly say that I look like a young James Spader on the NYTFF, but that was mere folly or wishful thinking.....

The funniest I've ever gotten was:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1719375872/nm0001306
Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4006 on: April 24, 2008, 01:34:38 PM »

Oh, and enjoyed the scene, oil.

Sigboth:  I can't believe you're not more excited about the sequel...

Jbottle:  No, no, of course I am, I'm amped up, like really psyched, I'll be totally "geeked" by the time it gets here, why??

Sigboth:  No, just the ten tickets...

Jbottle:  Yeah, I'm still wondering if they are going to make a "Derailed II:  Off the Rail Again..."  or whatever because I saw the original a bunch...

Sigboth:  I still don't get that whole "Derailed" thing...

Jbottle:  You don't??  I was pissed they didn't come out with the action figures, happy meal, give me something, people, right??
Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4007 on: April 24, 2008, 01:38:16 PM »

One more:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1887148032/nm0001306
Logged
harrie
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1143



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4008 on: April 24, 2008, 01:46:35 PM »

You raise a valid point, barton.  But after years of watching movies both for education and for pleasure, I enjoy and appreciate both ends of the film quality spectrum equally.  While watching a top-notch film can be extremely rewarding on many levels, so can letting go and just enjoying a really, really bad film. It gets even funnier when you ask yourself:  Does anyone set out to make a bad film?  Realizing that one probably sets out to make the best film they can, and that, say, Ticker is the best that Pyun could do….well, for me it just intensifies the chortling. 

It’s not my intent to sound mean in that I laugh at bad movies and their makers, though maybe I am.  While I do not by any means advocate watching only bad films – as in most things, I believe in a healthy balance – I think one can develop a case of myopia by watching only “quality” films as well. In other words, watching too many bad movies can make you fall into a rut; but there’s a rut just as big on the other side of the movie-watching street. 

I’ve also run into the situation where people – people whose opinions I usually respect -- rave about a flick to no end and said flick does great box office, etc.  Then I finally see it years later and guess what?  It outright sucks and becomes watchable only for the line “Nobody puts Baby in the corner” or something dopey like that.  For that particular scenario, Dirty Dancing comes to mind, but it’s happened with other flicks as well.  Taste is indeed relative, even for the general public, millions-of-happy-movie-goers-can’t-be-wrong crowd; and sometimes movies that are generally considered good (note I didn't say great), just aren't. 

Anyway, I’m all over the place as usual. But I maintain that watching bad flicks can be a rewarding experience; and I say that without shame. 

And I’m not sure how sex at the movies came up, but all I know about it is be careful who else is in the theater – just ask Pee Wee Herman.
Logged
harrie
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1143



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4009 on: April 24, 2008, 01:48:03 PM »

And I'm loving the jbottle/sigboth scenes, by the way.
Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4010 on: April 24, 2008, 02:48:38 PM »

Good points, harrie.

Barton:  To answer your question I arrived at the straight-to-video organically, because I was in high school during the height of the video-rental era, there was a mom and pop store in the smallish town I grew up in and before girls and beer really got started I would get together with my guy friends in the time when we could drive at night at age 15 (now it's 16), there was no Blockbuster at the time, just three rental stores at different traffic points around town. 

The store we used stocked a lot of schlock, but as an adolescent boy/teen, we loved "Top Gun," "Rambo," ran into "Taxi Driver," "The Party Animal," whatever looked interesting we would rent, and it didn't take long (you would rent at least two in case one "sucked" you had a backup) to start to swerve off into every direction.  We were a little geeky and all going to college so we saw all the spring break movies even as we would discover "Butch Cassidy," "The Graduate," "Ordinary People," "An Officer and a Gentleman," everything, especially "Taxi Driver," though, but yeah it was a journey of discovery that was an education in film in a way, and we saw all the action movies, and all the "Dirty" Harry Callahan films, and the Sergio Leone/Eastwood films, and what was often unsatisfying about mainstream films, loved "Pretty in Pink" at the time, sure, but basically you can only watch "Taxi Driver" so many times without veering off into uncharted territory like "Porky's" and bad action films and you begin to appreciate the lack of slickness in some movies, even as you liked "Footloose."

One of the first movies I saw that was rated "R" was "Dressed to Kill," and I had no idea that it was as good as it is at the time, I thought that I was simply drawn to the lurid subject matter but then we saw "Body Double" which was routinely dismissed and you know, things that start to creep into your consciousness that you can like what you want to like is that sort of intellectual certitude that you start to develop.  We saw "Platoon" and "Halloween" and "Planet of the Apes" and "Outland" and "Alien" and "A Clockwork Orange" and "Apocalypse Now" (especially) and you got the idea how wildly different subjects could be approached, and the idea that creativity is often a apt substitute for dollars.

So, we basically saw everything, and I continued in college and after to peruse the video stores for gems, obsessively reading every title, but you can't keep up with everything forever, but I don't consider it a waste of time to check things out that might not normally come to my attention, out of either boredom or curiosity.

There's also the fascination when big stars are in unheralded films that go awry like "Supernova," and turns out, it's pretty good.  "Red Planet," "Malice," "Unlawful Entry," where they are almost designed as guilty pleasures, as the domestic thriller that emasculates the "dad" figure somehow and is a tale of humiliation, building thriller like "The Temp," etc., each year has films that are cheaper to make and unheralded that provide noir thrills, "Breakdown."  So there's that kind of movie that's actually a good movie that is a guilty pleasure on the theory of "it's hard to make a even a 'bad' moive," and these types succeed in some way of self-awareness, fun stupidity, or exploitative noir thrills. 

Depending on your sense of humor, it's hard to draw the line then, between "diamond in the rough," and "guilty pleasure." 

And then you have "Submerged" and "Ticker" and other B-movie or straight to video movies that you see just to see where incompetence becomes sort of interesting or where corners are cut or there is excessive scenery-chewing or it was supposed to be "Pulp Fiction" when they started, it's fun to imagine how it came together when stars fall to the level of STV, but sometimes there's something interesting going on.....take "8MM," where you can see Nic Cage the man Nic Cage being miserable being in that movie, beyond the acting, and the performance that results veers between apathy and hammy.

Is "The Devil's Advocate" a "good movie" or "a guilty pleasure" or a "terrible movie," unbelievably silly.  I say "good movie" and same way "Point Break." 

There's a fine line to me where there's kind of a distinction without a difference.

The bottom line I guess is "Am I amused?" or "Am I witnessing genius?"  One or the other is great, but when it's both like the Coens or DePalma, or someone doing crack genre fare ("The Last Boy Scout," Tony Scott) that is post-modern in a way, then you don't get to call it a "guilty pleasure," because it did what it set out to do, or where what resulted was the best that could be done with material elevating it from average in some way.

I don't like serial dramas on TV, so I can't go there with you, don't like the commercials, and stick to news and sports on TV, but I don't seek out bad movies because I've seen all the good ones, but to see what happens when you make a bad movie, and how you do it, and hope for a few good laughs or some incredulousness to result.

The worst is when a movie is just lousy, like "Domestic Disturbance," a noir sub-genre that I usually like, and insults the viewer with few jokes and where it's clear that it was a short shoot on no money and a big star to cash in, eventually on DVD.

"Basic," same thing, compare that with "The General's Daughter," which is a well-crafted tawdry cheap thrill guilty pleasue that they actually spent money on.  Is "Double Jeopardy" a good movie when all Bruce Greenwood has to do is fake his death, frame his wife, collect the dough, and then pop up in upper-crust New Orleans society because he changed his name to Deveraux?  Tell me how Ashley Judd gets that pistol on the plane, keeps it as she is tossed off a car ferry in her car and then the gun pops up without us seeing her pull it out of the car?  Great stuff.  Good movie?  No.  "Fun." Sure.  "Guilty Pleasure," hell if I know.

But the short answer is that I guess I was weaned on low budget action movies out of a lack of options.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 11:49:15 PM by jbottle » Logged
harrie
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1143



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4011 on: April 24, 2008, 04:45:58 PM »

Eloquent as usual, jbottle. 

And you remind me of a film prof who once told our class that you could learn as much from a bad movie as from a good movie, even if what you learn is what not to do.  I may have taken that advice to the extreme, however.
Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4012 on: April 24, 2008, 07:34:31 PM »

Why thanks, yeah, I don't do it as much as I used to but you have to give a shot to films that seemed like a good idea at the time, and when you get caught in the IMDB loop where you are seeing what that other level of commerce is and who knows each other, it's kind of interesting, I mean, even if it goes straight to video, you are the star of that movie, and egos get involved.  I like that Pyun was spotted by Golem and Globus (sp?, don't know the ethnicity I think Arab Oil Money), where you see what can happen by throwing money at bad ideas and you know, the changing status of the players, it's all fun, and every movie is a disaster waiting to happen and everybody is looking for someone to blame it on as it goes bad, and then when everything goes wrong with the weather and you end up with "Apocalypse Now" you see what human invention is capable of enduring, so maybe my appreciation of B-movies is that people want to make movies and are driven by that idea out of a love of movies, and sometimes it's just terrible, the result, but you get to put Ice-T on the box even though he gets offed in under a min., it's the old "store" model that I was also weaned on, you read the back cover, see whether the front looks cool or not, in a way I think that people will be robbed of the experience of shopping for movies the way you shop for food, because in the old way they would have 5 copies of platoon and we would rent the same copy of "Party Animal" and were responsible for having to adjust the tracking, etc., if it's possible to miss videotapes, what I really miss is going to the store with other kids and arguing over which movies to get, I like going to "the record store," too, you can kind of see the miscalculation begin with the "box-art," just something the computer can't really do for you.

I also don't know why I'll watch all of "Goodfellas" when I happen across it on TV, I guess it's that same kind of "look what I found" instead of "on demand" which I don't have and simply putting in the DVD which I do have.  It's somehow really compelling when you are channel-surfing to find something that's really good by accident.

But I never would've seen "The Music of Chance" unless I went there and saw it and got it, thinking that it might be a guilty pleasure, when it turns out to be incredible.

And you have to factor in that Hollywood frequently doesn't understand how to value product, they get snowblind and it's all snow, and "Glengarry Glen Ross" doesn't get nominated for an Oscar, and so many things that you should know about don't get known.

I know I'm running my mouth today but the way the market is contracting lends more to a "go big" or "make something interesting," so when fewer people are going to the pictures putting Martin Lawrence into a fat suit and Robin Williams into an RV become more appealing than ever, but many things that aren't obviously brilliant art fare going wider, are getting passed over and I mean good genre fare like "Breakdown," I think that there's a part of the movie world that can't connect with an audience because of economics, and at the lower end of the economic scale, the straight to DVD, becomes increasingly interesting, I just don't have time to get the drop on everything anymore.
Logged
oilcanboyd23
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1613



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4013 on: April 24, 2008, 09:27:50 PM »

...and I mean good genre fare like "Breakdown,"...

Great call - You could have given me all day to think of an example of a movie for which "good genre fare" is an accurate definition and I wouldn't have come up with a better example than "Breakdown". 

And by "better" I don't mean "better movie," but rather a better example to use in answering the question of "what do you mean by 'good genre fare'?"  If someone asks you that question, all you have to do is say yup, for desert-noir/thriller, look no further than "Breakdown". 

It's like okay, east-coast yuppies fall victim to psycho truck drivers on a desert highway, and yeah, no thanks, I've seen that type of movie before, I'll pass, etc.  Then you say, but no, in this one you've got all the right actors (I miss JTW big time), each used properly in a movie that, sure, it touches all the bases - that's why it's "genre fare" - but it does so efficiently and without a false note anywhere. 

Stephen Thompson at The Onion ("...just a skillfully constructed, smartly conceived, escapist thriller that does just about everything right...") and Ebert ("...taut, skillful and surgically effective...") both sort of concede something while praising "Breakdown", like yeah, expectations should be kept in check when you're looking at a desert-noir/highway-thriller movie, but here we have something good.   Any time you say, "Yeah, sure it's a _____ movie, but it's taut, skillfully constructed, does everything right, etc.," you might be onto good genre fare. 




« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 09:32:34 PM by oilcanboyd23 » Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4014 on: April 24, 2008, 11:18:56 PM »

jbottle,re:#4006 "...there I said it..."  He wasn't even prompted to but I guess if you are talking to "High Times" you are going to eventually have to address "the green bud."

But I digress."



I DID THAT LAST NIGHT,against my better judgement

Now, however I am invited to participate in intellectual discussion which I have to present my regrets about not being able to (and what will that sound like?) but I reviewed a book recently which  has been taken seriously so I guess that I had better meet that commitment first.  If I could just fit in a nervous breakdown somewhere, that would be splendid.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 11:22:40 PM by madupont » Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4015 on: April 24, 2008, 11:22:38 PM »

Right on, and why aren't they making Kurt Russell dangle from a bridge anymore??

Why isn't Goldie Hawn the second wife of a landslide President who falls into office where she has to kind of take the reigns??

Why isn't there a thriller about ordinary things without claiming to be a "black comedy," I mean why isn't the machine working on all cylinders??

You look at the pipeline of these studios and you would think they were Merck or whomever about to go off-lablel and lose the "Viagra" dough, I mean, what does the year look like:

1:  Lesbo challenges authority.

2:  Queer challenges authority.

3:  Helen Hunt raises a child with autism before finding out that he can count cards.

4.  Bruce Willis has post-traumatic stress disorder from Iraq and is an uneasy fit as a car salesman with optimistic boss Jeff Foxworthy.

5.  Child buys a product in the 1970's that claims to propel him into the future with the help of AA batteries, he believes it, and winds up a really lousy done rock band and rather than go through adolescense, has to repair the youth that he didn't get to misspend, but the milf's, oh yeah...

6.  Ashley Judd is a cop on the edge of retirement and her old man is offed by a sicko, also a cop, who discouraged her from being a cop because she was a talented pianist.  After her boyfriend in flashback is killed by an unlikeable white thug, she abandons the piano in favor of a 9MM.  

7.  Harrison Ford is a fishing tour guide who unexpectedly finds love with Diane Lane when her husband (ironically) leaves her for an older woman (his high-school sweetheart), but is frightened to reveal that he supplements his income by a part-ownership of a local strip joint where a murder has recently occurred.

Give me movies.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 11:54:43 PM by jbottle » Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4016 on: April 24, 2008, 11:39:53 PM »

Yes, what was,"Prince of Tides" about? Wasn't Barbara a psychiatrist in that?  It was a fashionable idea at the time, the woman psychiatrist. Was it actually in Conroy's story?  I am now suspicious of everything Streisand has done. NOW THAT YOU'VE REMINDED ME....
Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4017 on: April 24, 2008, 11:57:51 PM »

"Prince of Tides" is 40 yr. old goes to NYC to rescue depressed suicide gesture sister "Savannah," meanwhile finding out from her Jewish shrink that he has issues of his own and teaching her child football and her fancy guests not to bring a Stratavarias around a redneck, and then whatever happens from there.
Logged
jbottle
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2389


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #4018 on: April 25, 2008, 12:55:37 AM »

Gosh, I feel like I really stepped on the forum today (no you didn't, jbottle, you should co-author the Albert Pyun bio, baby, you had the 'science...'), but those of you familiar with incoherency boy will know how what is swimming in my saltwater is part of the same paradox that informs you, so I did want to say that, yeah, I talked too much today, but honestly I don't give a shit, and friends, you know this.  I'm just trying to focus on a subject.

I kind of like the Duchovny film where he bluffs his way into blimp captain during a University of Virginia lacrosse match, and then decides that, hey, I am a blimp captain, and what a view.  "Black Sunday" meets "Side Out."
Logged
barton
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2016


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #4019 on: April 25, 2008, 11:01:44 AM »

Jbot, I'm going to give you a break and think of you as Vince Vaughn for a while.  I'm still located somewhere between Ed Norton and Duchovny, and handsome as neither.  I play better blues guitar than either, however. 

Quit Netfux and back to my 'hood video store.  Netfux got slower and slower, the final straw being the Omaha distribution center didn't have Cabin Boy and had to ship from New Jersey and it took four days.  New Jersey?  Also, other semifinal straw, their customer support is really poor.  (as in, impossible to reach)

 
Logged

"Nothing more foolish than a man chasing his hat!"
Pages: 1 ... 266 267 [268] 269 270 ... 300
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!