Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
June 24, 2018, 08:33:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: As you may have noticed, this is a very old backup, I'm still working through restoring the site.  Don't be surprised if you post and it all goes missing....
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 ... 165
  Print  
Author Topic: American History  (Read 29572 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #405 on: June 24, 2007, 10:51:40 AM »

Thanatopsy,

The mark of an educated American has always been his (and usually it's a he until recent times or in my experience) ability to quote either Shakespeare or the Bible as needed for an occasion. The epitome of this characterization is found in the tv series MASH, in the character of Charles, the hauty Bostonian doctor in the later part of the series.

During much of the 20th century, High School literature included one Shakespeare play per year. Ninth grade began with Romeo and Juliette, and 12 th grade culminated with MacBeth. I don't remember what was inbetween. Last year, one of my sisters, who teaches English in a Catholic High School in Michigan, did Romeo and Juliette with 10th graders, and was sharply criticized by the principal who said the students had complained that Shakespeare was "too hard" for them.

At about the beginning of the Web, I had access to a text based interactive site called a MOO (Multi-object oriented environment). I had a class of all females (a rarety in special ed) who enjoyed the online environment, and we set about to do a Shakespeare in the Moo using the play The Tempest. We ran out of school year before we got much further than designing the costume of the characters, but my girls had much fun programming the dressing and undressing of the characters in a small variety of costume, all described in text. It was funny to see the girls sitting at the computer, acting out the motions of putting on one garment or another, before typing in the steps to dress their character. The kids were learning the basics of programming as well as period language of Shakespeare. A few years ago, I could still find "Shakespeare in the MOO" using a search engine, because it was bult into a MOO core that moved from site to site (The MOOs were such a temptation to dictatorial governance, that one rarely lasted too long before it split, an opposition group would secure a new core, and go on, always dragging Shakespeare in the MOO and the Crystal Classroom with them.) I just tried to find it with google and it didn't come up, so I guess that core finally died.

So, dear Thanatopsy, Shakespeare has always been alive and well in The Colonies and the resultant Republic. I was a bit confused by your reference to an "Antebellum" period. We usually use that term to describe the period after the Civil War, especially here in Virginia, rather than the period after the Revolutionary war or any subsequent wars.
Logged
thanatopsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 501



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #406 on: June 24, 2007, 07:58:39 PM »

True, Shakespeare was taught in NYC high schools. Interestingly, this is how Black teens from Brooklyn who played basketball adopted the "we" or speaking in the third person.  After all, Brooklyn's  official name is King's County and the sport made them feel like royalty.

When I moved to Minnesota to attend law school over 20 years ago, several of my classmates and I were treated to a church sponsored presentation of Shakespeare at Minneapolis' Guthrie Theater.  We had a group of 8 people and I was the only person in that group who had read any of the bard's work (only one of my mates had even heard of him!). 

As for Antebellum, I have always understood it to be a reference to the years before the Civil War --- my old Webster's Dictionary (so old that the cover just fell off darn it!) specifically indicates that it is that period.  Postbellum is the term for the years after that war.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2007, 07:47:04 AM by thanatopsy » Logged

''Love much & be forgiven''

- - - Margaret Fuller
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #407 on: June 24, 2007, 08:33:37 PM »

Than,

Oops, my bad! I got my prefixes mixed up! You are right, ante means before not after.

I think much depends on where in the US you are looking. In areas with a strong English/Irish/Welsh immigration, Shakespeare was probably part of a library for those who had libraries even of a few volumes. In states, like Minnesota, where the immigration was not heavily English, the bard may have been overlooked. Virginia, where I live now, was an English colony, moreso than Pennsylvania where I grew up (William Penn was English, but the Germans were the predominant immigrant group). I will ask on the Virginia History list how the bard was perceived in "antebellum" Virginia, and whether his writings were typically a part of plantation libraries. Will get back to you when I hear back on the list.
Logged
bosox18d
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 918


Bayn Solomon just straight up sucks bum


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #408 on: June 25, 2007, 02:25:26 AM »

The Mention of Tyrone Power brings to mind a little history.Back in the 80's and early 90's a friend of mine had a buddy who had bought Powers old sloop named "The Black Swan" after the flick.I don't know how my friends buddy came to own it or if it had been restored as it had been around since at least the 50's but I sailed several day trips on it out of Melbourne,Fl. in the 80's and it was a beautiful boat.The guy and his wife who was a reporter first for USA Today and then the Miami Herald moved the boat and themselves down to Key West when she got the Herald gig as the Keys Reporter.I saw it last in the mid 90's and it still looked great. 
Logged

"If it keeps going like this,the Zamboni driver is going to be the first star"
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #409 on: June 25, 2007, 01:48:27 PM »

Thanatopsy,

So far, I have received four replies to the query about the presence of Shakespeare's writing in colonial and pioneer locales. All referenced a work entitled: Highbrow/Lowbrow ... and pointed out that Americans in the hinterlands and the frontiers were well acquainted with Shakespeare and it was typically among the small libraries that folks toted faithefully from one location to another. Shakespeare troops traveled the countryside putting on their productions in this and that backwoods town, and, if they messed up their lines, the audience was sure to correct them.

I think you can feel assured that your previous perception of lowbrow yanks was in gross error.

Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #410 on: June 25, 2007, 01:57:46 PM »

thanatopsy re#473

"Minneapolis' Guthrie Theater."    I remember when that cantilevered theater was first installed.

By the way, and bosox -- at #475, as well, Did you know that Tyrone Guthrie was a relative of Tyrone Powers. He's in the same line of descent, which is why I included all three of the Tyrone Powers, in order of descent, in that post above with the drawings and photos that Lhoffman had posted from an archived link.

Like any other profession, the theatre is rife with families who remain in the theatre because they have been exposed to it, as a normality, all their life.

What some people refuse to understand when they go into "show business", like say somebody really wants to be a "movie star" but they really don't have any acting experience and nobody has ever told them that they will need it compared to behaving like a celebrity which they eventually find out they are not, is that: today in the Industry of movie-making competitiveness or combativeness as the case may be, those families went into the "pictures".

You don't just break into the business.  Pay attention to the credits as they roll by and you sometime begin to notice a familiar name or two, or more and then it really starts to boggle your mind that all these people on the set and in the background of the actual production are there because of a family member at some point who did something else and knew somebody who....

I always thought that Johnny Depp's performance as, Ed Wood, was a rather perfect example of this complexity.

And bosox! The Black Swan inspired the first crush I ever had, destined not to be a lifetime crush from childhood on, Tyrone Power died early of a heart-attack at about age 44 and I hadn't actually realized this until reading the bio above. I just thought that he went on making movies forever, while I had something that kept me from getting to the movies.

Since I had to practice music, like it or not at a certain age, I developed a substitute crush momentarily on Cornel Wilde as Chopin because I played a lot of his music (and, then was expected to dance to it, too?); so that, at the time I already was extremely smitten by the versatility of Gary Oldman, Beethoven was a guaranteed shoe-in. How I ever managed to miss Oskar Werner as Mozart is unforgivable.  Tom Hulse is no substitute but a thing on to himself.

Okay, bosox, so how was the interior of the ship?
Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #411 on: June 25, 2007, 02:06:22 PM »

weezo, re:#476

Trouping around the countryside was normal for Moliere as well. Remember when Shakespeare mentions this in Hamlet who couches the players what lines to say, he had no idea what fun the French were having on the other side of the Channel, excuse me, chanel.
Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #412 on: June 25, 2007, 11:05:52 PM »

Ps.  Make that Hamlet as coach.
 
It was Moliere who was couching the players. Known for it, in fact.
Logged
bosox18d
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 918


Bayn Solomon just straight up sucks bum


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #413 on: June 25, 2007, 11:16:16 PM »

As far as below deck on the Black Swan it's been awhile but I recall some beautiful teak and some or all of it was upholstered in snakeskin.I spent almost all the time on deck the times I was on it.
Logged

"If it keeps going like this,the Zamboni driver is going to be the first star"
thanatopsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 501



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #414 on: June 26, 2007, 08:31:01 AM »

Thanatopsy,

I think you can feel assured that your previous perception of lowbrow yanks was in gross error.




Actually, that was a point I was trying to make. Up to this time I had been led to believe that the USA populace in the hinterland was largely illiterate and provincial. Writings such as those of Tyler and others largely gave that impression. McReynolds's book Beneath The American Renaissance and Cliff, however, have set the record straight.
Logged

''Love much & be forgiven''

- - - Margaret Fuller
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #415 on: June 26, 2007, 08:54:24 AM »

Thanatopsy,

Education and literacy were the goals of many if not all of the founding fathers. Thomas Jefferson was perhaps the most eloquent in stating that the preservation of our hard-won liberties rested on creating an educated population. He is often credited with the origins of our public school system. The problem lies in the definition of literacy. Even today there are critics of the public school system that insist the schools are turning out "illiterates". Certainly these students have not acquired the robust level of education that was common in historical times for college graduates, but they are also not at the point where they cannot read whatever it is that they choose to read.
Literacy seems to be defined by the eye of the beholder.
Logged
thanatopsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 501



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #416 on: June 26, 2007, 05:29:37 PM »

Good point.  Jefferson also advocated free education and that is an idea that remains as timeless as ever.
Logged

''Love much & be forgiven''

- - - Margaret Fuller
thanatopsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 501



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #417 on: June 26, 2007, 09:11:06 PM »

Shakespeare Wallah
(1965)

by
Leonard Maltin

Shashi Kapoor, Felicity Kendal, Geoffrey Kendall, Laura Liddell, Madhur Jaffrey, Utpal Dutt.
Directed by James Ivory.

Playboy Kapoor, who has an actress-mistress, romances Felicity Kendal, a member of a two-bit English theatrical company touring Shakespeare in India. Simple, poignant drama.


...


Merchant-Ivory movies were among my favorites.  This little remembered gem was a goody and shows the universality of Shakespeare's work.

Logged

''Love much & be forgiven''

- - - Margaret Fuller
Bob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 671


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #418 on: June 26, 2007, 09:29:16 PM »

Good Evening:

I'm back. Surgery done. It was  quite an ordeal and even now I'm unable to sit in one position for too long or to concentrate very well. I was in  the hospital for 2 weeks. I'll read all of the posts as soon as I can and start posting again soon. I see we're into SHAKESPEARE RIOTS--are we also contnuinh with the Taylor volume?

While in the hospital I got NIXON AND KISSINGER. I couldn't get to read, so I'll have to start re-reading SHAKESPEARE tomorrow.
Logged
Lhoffman
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1989


View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #419 on: June 26, 2007, 09:39:32 PM »

Bob...glad to see you back, and I hope you zip back into shape as quickly as possible.  Smiley
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 ... 165
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!