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Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: American History  (Read 29393 times)
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Bob
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« Reply #1380 on: October 27, 2007, 02:47:43 AM »

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I think the tales of cannibalism in Native Americans are just that - tales - born of prejudice, misunderstanding, and sometimes pure malice towards those who could not be conquered and enslaved as desired.

On the other hand--here's the other view:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_19_52/ai_65805908
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Bob
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« Reply #1381 on: October 27, 2007, 02:49:31 AM »

Though dated, here's yet another view:

http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/encyclopedia/cannibalism.htm
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1382 on: October 27, 2007, 04:04:23 AM »

So, I take it our discussion on Conquering Gotham is officially over and that we should be considering new books for discussion.
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Bob
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« Reply #1383 on: October 27, 2007, 04:07:34 AM »

Lastly, a counter-view to what I posted, but I think an objective view of the subject, is found in Jake Page's  IN THE HANDS OF THE GREAT SPIRIT. His view is that although the practice may have occured among North American Indians, definitive proof seems to be lacking. I hesitate to quote directly from  the text as it is an 8 page exposition of the problem, concluding in part as follows:

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Some important facts --such as who was eating whom--and the motives will almost surely prove ever elusive. The evidence, however widespread it may turn out to be , will be believed by some and rejected by others.
 (Page, 119)

And I think that is probably the most objective conclusion anyone can come to---the issue will just have to go drifting through some sort of historical ozone until it can be better explored.

I looked through the books I have (25 of them) which cover Indian history and can find no history of consistent cannibalism , either as a relgious practice or a cultural practice, among North American Indians east of the Mississippi.  Jake Page's conclusion seems the fairest one at this point.
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Bob
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« Reply #1384 on: October 27, 2007, 04:28:33 AM »

Dzimas:

I like your idea to read POWER BROKER, but it's so long and is confined to New York. Those not familiar with the city would probably get lost in it . Having lived through the last days of Moses, I remember the almost daily news reports about him and his projects.

Thanatopsy suggests something on Transcendentalsm. I can go for that. The suggestion is to read a  Hawthorne biography. The thought  entered my head that if that's not acceptable, there's a biography of Herman Mellville or we can something directly on the subject.

I'm reading THE MOST FAMOUS MAN IN AMERICA, a biography of Henry Ward Beecher. It's very good so far. That would take us from about the 1850's on...and through the Tilton Scandal starring  Victoria Woodhull, et al....

Thanks for posting Jonnes' reply to your question. She was very nice to entertain questions. Her next book, she tells me, is about the Eiffel Tower.We'll await its publication. Her other book, EMPIRES OF LIGHT: EDISON, TESLA AND WESTINGHOUSE AND THE RACE TO ELECTRIFY THE WORLD is excellent.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 04:30:26 AM by Bob » Logged
weezo
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« Reply #1385 on: October 27, 2007, 07:48:33 AM »

Bob,

Of the books you listed, only the one on Edison would be of interest to me.

The Cross of Iron was suggested back when I did the poll, and received one vote. I thought it would end up being considered, so I got it, but am now surprised that it has been overlooked. It is a very interesting book, and much more tuned to history than books on writers.

Thanks for the articles on cannibalism among the North American Indians. It does not seem either than the practice was wide-spread, or that there is much conclusive evidence of it.  It remains, to me, in the same area of mythology in which others assert that 1421 exists.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1386 on: October 27, 2007, 07:50:12 AM »

Power Broker would be too much, I think.  I'm parital to Leviathan,



http://www.amazon.com/Leviathan-History-Eric-Jay-Dolin/dp/0393060578/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-7886885-8579000?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193485737&sr=1-1
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madupont
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« Reply #1387 on: October 27, 2007, 02:07:18 PM »

Thanks, Bob for all this good resource material.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/f_presence.html#top 

from--http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/nfldhistory/FrenchOccupationandFrenchShoreofNewfoundland.htm

under --
http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/index.htm

Topic came up in another consideration when I mentioned to Dzimas about the practice of exporting potential wives from France, with their small endowment from the King, to improve the settlement of "New France".  The Newfoundland material of course also refers to St.Pierre which comes up whenever we speak of Patrice Laconte or Juliette Binoche in the Movie forum.

DZIMAS, take a look at this in regard to Jack Kerouac (whose later travels alerted him to his family origins from Bretagne before their emigration to the New World of Canada and then south to Lowell)
http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/pictures/textile.htm
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thanatopsy
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« Reply #1388 on: October 27, 2007, 05:51:43 PM »

Some time ago we also discussed the possibility of discussing codfish and their impact on the universe:

http://www.longitudebooks.com/images/book_large/OCE10.jpg


...


maddie,


re "pot polishing"  - the term sounds familiar: I believe it was used in the PBS or History channel broadcast about southwest tribes and referred to precisely what you are mentioning


...



I also like the possibility of reading about  Henry Ward Beecher.

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weezo
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« Reply #1389 on: October 27, 2007, 06:10:49 PM »

Than,

Yes, we did talk about reading Cod, Salt, and the Basque History of the World. I got copies of all three books, and have started the Basque History. It is easy reading and quite interesting. I could go along with Cod, Salt or both.
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thanatopsy
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« Reply #1390 on: October 27, 2007, 11:54:30 PM »

OK.  But now that I think about it, the Cod book was a world history subject and may be more suitable for that section of the forum. If it is approved of in the near future, I'll join you there.
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weezo
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« Reply #1391 on: October 28, 2007, 12:26:36 AM »

Than,

I was thinking that was brought up on the World History forum, but it may have been this forum before the split.

I am reading a second translation.version of Cabeza de Vaca, and this is very definitely American History. It is also very much of an action-adventure story! It is possible that the Morroccan slave who is one of the survivers of the expedition, was the first enslaved African to set foot on the North American continent.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1392 on: October 29, 2007, 07:15:10 AM »

I would also be up for The Last Days of the Incas,



http://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Incas-Kim-MacQuarrie/dp/074326049X/ref=pd_bbs_2/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193656440&sr=1-2
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Bob
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« Reply #1393 on: October 29, 2007, 08:48:29 PM »

I've been eyeballing the INCA book up ever since you first brought it to my attention. Are there any other takers----I also like LEVIATHAN, which I've read already---

Did I mention there's a new biography of ALICE ROOSEVELT LONGWORTH?
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weezo
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« Reply #1394 on: October 29, 2007, 09:09:39 PM »

Incas looks very interesting, but, at least on Amazon, too pricey for my purse. Used, it's $32. And it's hardback which means I can only read on it a short spell at a time. The other books by the author look interesting, but I'd want to flip through the book to see if it's worth the price. Would want a good collection of color plates for the price.

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