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Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: American History  (Read 29355 times)
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #1470 on: November 09, 2007, 12:45:20 PM »

Anne....Henry Adams does have interesting things to say about Virginians....
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weezo
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« Reply #1471 on: November 09, 2007, 08:19:38 PM »

Laurie,

Can you provide some examples?
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #1472 on: November 09, 2007, 08:57:37 PM »

The funny thing is, he doesn't appear to be at all impressed (although he can't quite work out the whole George Washington thing).  On the other hand, he wasn't that impressed with Harvard, either.

But Dzimas....I'm glad you suggested this book.  It is quite enjoyable.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 09:49:38 PM by Lhoffman » Logged
weezo
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« Reply #1473 on: November 09, 2007, 10:43:37 PM »

Ah, so Adams looked down his nose at Virginians as well as Boston Old Family.

Look forward to what else you find in this book....
 
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Bob
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« Reply #1474 on: November 10, 2007, 01:42:51 AM »

I see we're into the Adams book already....I think its important in reading and assessing Adams and his book to remember that it is essentially a book on the world he lived in and his impressions of things as he saw them a various times of his life. His impression of Virginia--not Virginians--was the impression he formed at a very early age when he first entered the Commonwealth and is not necessarily the impression he kept  for the rest of his life. His impression of Harvard is the impression he had of it as a student there and I think, from my previous readings on education in that era, is somewhat on the mark. It is the impression of a 17 year old who intensely disliked school in general from the "get-go" and it was not the impression he kept throughout his life.

Additionally remember that the book is actuallly a companion to Mont-Saint-Michel and Chartres and is a book which explains his theory of history and about his views on education in his era--that is why it is entitled THE EDUCATION.... The two books should be read together. The impression that is just an autobiography evolved from the publisher adding the phrase to the title page  on his own--and the error stuck to this day.

His theory of history involved the concepts of Unity, the highest form of which was achieved during the Twelfth Century Mont-St Michel... and multiplicity-achieved by the Twntieth Century THE EDUCATION..

I don't want to get too philosophical or theoretical here and destroy people's enjoyment of the book--I'm pointing these aspects out so the readers might better understand some of the sections which seem not to make much sense.


For a clearer explanation, get the 1931 Modern Library Edition and read the Introduction of James Truslow Adams (no relative of Henry, in case the thought arises).

If it looks as if I go around reading the introductions of various editions of EDUCATION, you're right--I  Do!!

The history of this book and its development are as important and as fascinating as the book itself.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 01:47:22 AM by Bob » Logged
Dzimas
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« Reply #1475 on: November 10, 2007, 02:15:08 AM »

Your reading room sounds very cozy robert.  I wish I could find that peace and quiet when I read.  Usually, I'm reading while the kids are watching cartoons or my wife one of her favorite Lithuanian programs.  They don't like me reading, so it can be a very challenging process.  I thought I would have today to read (part of it anyway), but I find out we are supposed to work today since we got an extra day off last weekend for All Saints Day Weekend.  Takes me 2-3 weeks to get through a book like Henry Adams.  Such is life.

I can see the tit for tat taking place here, weezo.  You've decided to dump on poor little Henry since some of us dumped on Menzies and his grandiose theories about Chinese exploration.  I suppose all is fair in reading discussions too.
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Donotremove
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« Reply #1476 on: November 10, 2007, 02:54:17 AM »

Bob, the NYT has started a reading group called "Reading Room" with selected participants.  Their first discussion was "War and Peace," which is now ending.  The December selection is "The Education of Henry Adams."  To read this discussion group's posts, click on Reading Room in the online edition of the New York Times Book Review (out every Sunday and left up all week.)
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1477 on: November 10, 2007, 04:56:36 AM »

NYT has started a reading group called "Reading Room" with selected participants.  Their first discussion was "War and Peace," which is now ending.  The December selection is "The Education of Henry Adams." 

How quaint.  Seems like their blogs didn't prove as fruitful as they hoped.
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Bob
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« Reply #1478 on: November 10, 2007, 05:27:38 AM »

Isn't that fascinating....I see they have a comments section. I'll post something and see if it pops up. I'll also follow their discussion.

It seems its not a discussion open to the public as their old one's were. rather, it is a fixed panel of distinguished or prominent individuals wit public comments encouraged but restricted in some way. When you read the Frequently asked questions one of the responses is that they  seek to restrict the frequency of an individual's participation.

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[We value thoughtful comments representing a range of views that make their point quickly and politely. We make an effort to protect discussions from repeated comments – either by the same reader or different readers.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 05:42:40 AM by Bob » Logged
weezo
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« Reply #1479 on: November 10, 2007, 09:29:27 AM »

Dzimas,

If I were going to do a tit for tat, I would be reading Henry Adams and criticizing it from knowledge. As it is, I am not reading the book because the writing style is entirely too flowery, too wordy. By comparison, the translation of Cabeza de Vaca are written in a straight-forward manner, dripping with meaning from every word. Words are in the text because they carry significant meaning. They are not merely decoration for the page. Education around the turn of the 20th century, was quite different from education today. The progressives were just taking their stands, and much of education still centered in teaching basic reading and math and ending education at that point.

 
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« Reply #1480 on: November 10, 2007, 09:53:57 AM »

``get the 1931 Modern Library Edition and read the Introduction of James Truslow Adams ``


That's the copy I started using but, alas, I find the print far too small for my aged eyes.

JT Adams' attributes HB Adams' successes first and foremost to his family heritage. This is a comment that I personally find to be most apropos.  You likely recall that when I first joined the NYT History book forum, my first question was which is the most under-rated figure in American history? And you likely recall  I said it was John Quincy Adams (a few years later, there was a C-SPAN broadcast of a history convention scholars in Ohio who confirmed my view) who is said to be a great influence upon his grandson.

In a subsequent C-SPAN broadcast which dealt with Education, several call-in viewers said that while they greatly admired the bio, they believed Mont-Saint-Michel was HB Adams' greatest book.

What a great shame it is that we learned so little about the Adams  in school and in college. In all of the USA's history, no family has contributed more to our great nation's successes than has that great family.
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madupont
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« Reply #1481 on: November 10, 2007, 10:24:50 AM »


Bob, the NYT has started a reading group called "Reading Room" with selected participants.  Their first discussion was "War and Peace," which is now ending.  The December selection is "The Education of Henry Adams."  To read this discussion group's posts, click on Reading Room in the online edition of the New York Times Book Review (out every Sunday and left up all week.)


The thought that occurred to me, immediately, when checking it out, is that this is what should have happened from the beginning and that it never should have gone into the hands of an editor of an on-line edition who seemed truly bored with literature as compared to what current best-sellers were listed by the trade as necessary to post in public libraries across the nation.

The example that stood out to me was the day that I dove into the discussion of the then recent novel of Philip Roth,The Human Stain, already knowing because I'd read the first Bliss Broyard account(Dancing with my Father) of the man we looked to as a contributor on the writing scene in the late 1950s.  I waited to see how people related.  I also found no admission of knowledge coming from the on-line editor of this feature for the discussion of books that Anatole Broyard had been the critical editor in Literature at The New York Times back in those earlier days and was a man who wrote every day of his life with The New York Times. Before we were quite through with Roth's "novel", I catalogued everything that I could find available of Broyard's literary reviews at the NYT.

Today, his daughter is back in the Book Reviews with her newest account of who he was and her family's history, along with "a human interest story" of her visits to family both black and white in New Orleans.

But the saddest news of all, I posted at Celebreality, the death of Norman Mailer, this morning.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 10:28:19 AM by madupont » Logged
Dzimas
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« Reply #1482 on: November 10, 2007, 10:40:58 AM »

But Dzimas....I'm glad you suggested this book.  It is quite enjoyable.

Thank Thanatopsy.  He was the first to recommend it.  The Wills book will compliment it nicely,

http://www.amazon.com/Henry-Adams-Making-America-Garry/dp/0618872663/ref=sr_1_1/103-7886885-8579000?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1194709231&sr=8-1
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Bob
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« Reply #1483 on: November 10, 2007, 11:31:23 AM »

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9781400067329&itm=1

Mailer is dead. I just spoke to his literary executor, who is a local professor and author, last week and was signing his latest book (published just two weeks ago), which he co-authored with Mailer, which has Mailer's views on the Almighty---so the death to me is shocking to say the least. The last time I saw Mailer he was literally hobbling on two crutches and in obvious pain--but he lectured at Wilkes University and did quite well. It's the end of an era of sorts. Normal Mailer was prominent when I was in grade school--50 or so years ago.
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Bob
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« Reply #1484 on: November 10, 2007, 11:38:18 AM »

Quote
That's the copy I started using but, alas, I find the print far too small for my aged eyes.

Take it the nearest Xerox Machine and print it out at 150% of size. It'll only take you about 2 days and maybe a hundred dollars, but its worth it Roll Eyes

Hopefully you can locate another edition. The one I'm using is the 1974 edition with the Ernest Samuels Introduction and Samuels' notes in the back. The print is standard and the notes, coming from Samuels (his major biographer) are most helpful.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 11:41:29 AM by Bob » Logged
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