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Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: American History  (Read 29568 times)
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nytempsperdu
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« Reply #1500 on: November 11, 2007, 10:40:36 PM »

Scrolling backwards, I came to this "after" a post on Norman Mailer and at first thought he was the subject:

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People around him found him overbearing at times and insufferable. But like you, I like him. I like your phrase "fear overbalanced by ego." His ability to double back on himself and make the judgements he did is close to unique among prominent men and women.

Wonder if Henry Adams and Norman Mailer have been linked before?  Seems unlikely...

As for the Adams family, the only other writer Adams I know of was NY journalist "FPA" Franklin P. Adams, 'cause I used to love to read about and writings of the Algonquin Round Table crew.  Bob, can you find out if he was of the same family?  (And I too consider your library/reading room a little slice o' heaven--the best kind since death isn't a requirement of entry.)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2007, 02:25:06 PM by nytempsperdu » Logged
thanatopsy
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« Reply #1501 on: November 12, 2007, 08:25:20 PM »

``Thanatopsy will have to look into the account of how The Naked and the Dead, post-period, was survived.``


Naked & Dead  was especially popular during the Vietnam war era because of all that ugliness that I discussed above. But recently, its truth has fallen into disfavor as people have succumbed to right wing notions of war's mythic beauty and ''justifications''.  With media control firmly in the hands of right wing propagandists, the truth has not been revealed about Bush's criminal war on Iraq.  Thankfully, there are quite a number of people who take the initiative in seeking those truths [thanks, I should say, in large measure to the Internet].  This is why books such as Mailer's will long play a role in enlightening people and thereby exploding the right wing myths.
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madupont
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« Reply #1502 on: November 12, 2007, 09:33:37 PM »

Thanatopsy,

This may surprise you, considering that Norman Mailer died just two days ago, but a year ago he was still out there on the circuit and I am only sorry that I missed attending at a community college up in Berks county because I didn't have a ride or way to get there.

My sister-in-law who had been visiting me a couple of weeks had to be back on her way home to Michigan because people were expecting her along her route. While she was here, I took her to a place known as the Book Barn in Chester County just north of Longwood because I was sure it would interest her. I think she went through all five floors of the old Quaker barn but I couldn't handle the precarious climb anymore plus the dust was getting to me. There is no way they can manage to more than periodically clean all those five floors of books enough to fill a barn. So I sat that out for awhile and would walk around a bit when I noticed a clipping or print-out that had been tacked up on the wide door frame as you come in the front door where the pot-bellied stove is the only heat in the entire place.

The notice said that Norman Mailer would be at such and such school to speak on...(have you guessed it?) the war and what should be done about it.  They expected a big turn-out, and there was definitely a reason for coming here because the people lack information on the reality of the war. This is often said about places where the media are under Republican ownership, although protests had begun by the time that Bush arrived here relatively  unannounced prior to his election of 2004. Local sponsors knew and prepared but it was not generally known (for reasons of discretion).  While he was having inane conversation(?) at the Amish, to introduce himself, and they listened solemnly as they  usually do to outsiders (they are very serious people although often quite jolly), a group of naked protestors arrived just short of the cross street where some Businessman had erected a podium for the Bush arrival. The Amish never batted an eyelash.  The police escort directed the protestors to get down on the ground, face down. Historically, the Amish had once been in this position themselves, which is why they came here to Pennsylvania.

My only reason for explaining all that is to clarify why Norman Mailer would have been continuing to do what he had been doing when he protested at the Pentagon and wrote,Armies of the Night, during the Vietnam war, or wrote what he did in Naked and the Dead.

But it is true that very many of the people who would attend the conference at which he was speaking were informed by the internet as we have been. Yet, they knew that if they went to hear him, it was more than curiosity, that he would tell them how to go about what they could do.

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caclark
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« Reply #1503 on: November 13, 2007, 03:32:18 PM »

Reading With the Stars

Donotremove,

It does provide comic relief to hear that the New York Times after diligent screening was able to locate for their Reading Room a few people whom it deems qualified to read books and comment on them. The Times could have a real hit on their hands if they adopt a format in which at the end of each week, the commentators vote one of their group off the panel.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 03:53:13 PM by caclark » Logged
Lhoffman
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« Reply #1504 on: November 13, 2007, 07:34:25 PM »

Clark....LOL....I am so over it.  Cheesy
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nytempsperdu
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« Reply #1505 on: November 13, 2007, 11:16:17 PM »

I'm looking forward to the Reading Room discussion of the Henry Adams--here's a link to an online version I like (maybe a Harvard library book scanned in?) with editor's note by Henry Cabot Lodge (1918)

http://books.google.com/books?id=-wlMNK9UfTQC&printsec=titlepage&dq=the+education+of+henry+adams&psp=1#PPR7,M1

I may be able to keep up on the reading in the NYT Reading Room since I can access it at work as I cannot this site, and I like the idea of enlisting different readers for different books.  Since I have no illusions that my observations on any given topic would be of interest to NYT readers, I can "lurk" at will without feeling any need to contribute.  Thanks much to the poster who alerted us to the Reading Room, though discussion here will be of great interest as well.

Something of Henry's childhood sickliness reminded me of TR, something of the passage beginning "Boys are wild animals" reminded me of parts of Huck Finn, up through "Boys naturally look on all force as an enemy, and generally find it so,"...though he then differentiates boys of New England:  "but the New Englander, whether boy or man, in his long struggle with a stingy or hostile universe, had learned also to love the pleasure of hating; his joys were few." 

"The pleasure of hating"?  Hmmm.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2007, 11:32:28 PM by nytempsperdu » Logged
nytempsperdu
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« Reply #1506 on: November 13, 2007, 11:30:56 PM »

Maybe someone will remind me what was the screen name of Rodney Welch on the old NYT forums--I see he has commented on W&P.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1507 on: November 13, 2007, 11:32:24 PM »

Maybe someone will remind me what was the screen name of Rodney Welch on the old NYT forums--I see he has commented on W&P.

Philostrate.
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nytempsperdu
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« Reply #1508 on: November 13, 2007, 11:32:59 PM »

Of course, thanks so much Dzimas!

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madupont
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« Reply #1509 on: November 14, 2007, 07:27:02 AM »


Reading With the Stars

Donotremove,

It does provide comic relief to hear that the New York Times after diligent screening was able to locate for their Reading Room a few people whom it deems qualified to read books and comment on them. The Times could have a real hit on their hands if they adopt a format in which at the end of each week, the commentators vote one of their group off the panel.



It took a minute but you do have a real tv sense of humor. I was just exchanging opinions with Trojanhorse on this over in Television forum. But it wasn't until the following post commented, that I had to reread you again and note the heading: Reading with the Stars.

I wish them luck to keep up with their new duties but this tendency to get the authorized version smacks of the bad old 1950s again.

Some may be,"...so over it".  I certainly am not.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1510 on: November 14, 2007, 07:48:39 AM »

Reading With the Stars

Donotremove,

It does provide comic relief to hear that the New York Times after diligent screening was able to locate for their Reading Room a few people whom it deems qualified to read books and comment on them. The Times could have a real hit on their hands if they adopt a format in which at the end of each week, the commentators vote one of their group off the panel.


Excellent!
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caclark
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« Reply #1511 on: November 14, 2007, 11:57:55 AM »

It is quite a coincidence that the NYT Reading Room selected The Education of Henry Adams just a week after Elba's American History forum made that very choice. They just finished discussing War and Peace over there. Alternating between fiction and non-fiction was of course the pattern for the old Reading Group selection. Maybe the Times is trying to win back alienated readers whom they hope to persuade to sit at the back of the bus as a select panel takes the wheel. It seems to me that the old gray lady has been going through an identity crisis for the past five years or more in trying to figure out how to reinvent itself.

You don't generally think of the Times as a newspaper that suppresses dissenting views. But I couldn't get my post past the censors when they asked for reader reaction to the Don Imus flap a few months back. I wrote that I'd never heard the expression "nappy-headed ho," didn’t know what it meant, and wondered why, with all the coverage the story was getting, no one in the press was bothering to explain the term. I criticized the press in general for again blowing an incident out of all proportion for the sake of cheap sensationalism. I submitted the post twice and it never got posted. I don't know why my post was judged unsuitable. Many of the views on Imus that were getting posted were angry, shrill, and frighteningly crazy. What a sorry state of affairs to think that I stood a better chance of having my view posted if I'd only sounded like someone who was deranged.

That was my last experience with a New York Times moderated forum.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1512 on: November 14, 2007, 02:42:07 PM »

I suppose the Times thinks it is having an enligthened discussion in its closed door reading room.  I just don't get all this pretentious nonsense.  If people want blogs they can always go to Rosie O'Donnell.
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Donotremove
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« Reply #1513 on: November 14, 2007, 03:46:55 PM »

Caclark, ditto on the moderated comments (and, they're all over the place, stuck at the bottom of this and that) being overly "moderated" (and to odd criteria to boot--seems to change minute by minute.)  I posted one that appeared, but the next one--different instance--never saw the light of day.  Of course, if the comments already number into the dozens, I read the first 10 or so (if I'm interested) and don't bother to comment.  Who's going to read through nearly 100 comments on some "hot" topic (button pushers, I call 'em)?

The comment that didn't make it was about some dude that had formerly been with World Bank giving some economic advice.  My attitude is that anyone who's been with World Bank is not someone you'd really want to be listening to.  So, I said so.  Guess the NYT is a World Bank enthusiast.   Smiley
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Bob
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« Reply #1514 on: November 14, 2007, 04:35:09 PM »

Quote
here's a link to an online version I like (maybe a Harvard library book scanned in?) with editor's note by Henry Cabot Lodge (1918)

Here's a piece of trivia: The editor's note by Henry Cabot Lodge was written by  none other than Henry Adams himself. WEhen cabot Lodge saw it he was puzzled and wondered why Adams would do such a thing, but said nothing to him. The editor's note was in the original unpublished version of 1907, I believe, which is when Adams originally wrote the book and distributed among a selected number of people for comment. The 1918 text was the first edition--it having been published  after Adams' death.
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