Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: American History  (Read 29312 times)
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weezo
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« Reply #1680 on: December 17, 2007, 09:28:44 PM »

Bob,

Come to think of it, it was '67, since John was born in '66 and he wasn't a year old yet when we were in Jersey City. Can't remember the name of the street, but there was one you could walk and go through several towns, ending in in West New York, which was quite upscale compared to Jersey City. I remember seeing angry looks on people faces that summer, and my then husband, having an issue going into some neighborhoods with a Virginia license plate on the car. But, he also had issues with the mafia, who preferred to do the bookkeeping for their business within the family, and he was in the business of sellig a bookkeeping service to small businesses. The best part of being in Jersey City, was taking the subway over to Manhattan and flitting around there. I was quite a walker back then, piled both boys on a stroller, and covered lots of area. I was young and naive enough to not know it was supposed to be a scary time.

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Dzimas
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« Reply #1681 on: December 18, 2007, 07:35:25 AM »

Bob, it is interesting that some of the public schools in New York have opted for an experience-based curriculum.  I can't remember what they call it specifically, but the curriculum has been adapted to the immediate environment of the schools and the kids learn as much as they can through direct experiences.  I think Adams would have approved of something like this.

I'm not sure if this is it or not,

http://insideschools.org/fs/school_profile.php?id=950
« Last Edit: December 18, 2007, 07:42:49 AM by Dzimas » Logged
madupont
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« Reply #1682 on: December 18, 2007, 02:46:22 PM »

Quote
I did spend the summer of 66(?)


Summer of '67. I worked in Newark at the time--several blocks from the heart of the riot and being in local and state politics at the time, spent much of my time helping to restrict the riot to Newark. I lived in East Orange at the time. It was a very frightening thing to see and be a part of.


Interesting, my husband was doing the same thing very much about the same time in the Midwest
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madupont
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« Reply #1683 on: December 18, 2007, 02:54:26 PM »

weezo,

You asked about this previously.

http://www.nba.nbi.dk/

Should provide the leads you are looking  into.
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weezo
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« Reply #1684 on: December 18, 2007, 03:43:38 PM »

Maddie,

Thanks muchly for the link, but on going to it, I have no idea what I asked about that this answers. Was he a Famous American Scientist? Did he do research into the origins of man? Have I forgotten what this was about?

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madupont
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« Reply #1685 on: December 19, 2007, 12:24:39 AM »

]
Maddie,

Thanks muchly for the link, but on going to it, I have no idea what I asked about that this answers. Was he a Famous American Scientist? Did he do research into the origins of man? Have I forgotten what this was about?




You were trying to find an example for your web-site, to demonstrate planetary application as a lesson for children (and had asked if Princeton had any such teaching materials for young people.  I frankly don't know that they do because there have been so many changes in that town in the last ten years since leaving there. I even discovered that Morven had beautified itself beyond anything I could imagine. But I was referring to the kind of things that used to show up each week in the Princeton Packet keeping us informed of latest developments in, as I most recall,"string theory", and such).

Niels Bohr seems to have been on campus at some point, long before I poked around, although I did  have an orientation with a little old lady of an age which I seem to be experiencing now for myself, who showed a small group of us around campus during Reunion Days when the Old Boys come back to campus to parade for the matriculation of the current crop.  Our guide was the widow of someone in the physical sciences back then and the subject came up from the question of another guest upon hearing the guide's remark.

I had first read Bohr about 24 years previously.His diagrams of the application of the energy of atomic particles to the nucleus, although not something I would expect to need to work with, made sense to me in what I knew of the theory of planetary motion as soon as I looked at the illustrations of his diagrams.  I believe that was what you were looking for but I gather you were approaching it from the point of view of gradation of strengths and how to demonstrate that in a way easily grasped for young students, whereas I was looking at their relative motion and how that changed the strength of their effects upon each other as physical energy.

"Niels Bohr was a Danish physicist who made fundamental contributions to understanding atomic structure and quantum mechanics, for which he received the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1922. He was also part of the team of physicists working on the Manhattan Project."....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niels_Bohr

There are a number of articles listed at the bottom of that web-site page, which might give you further ideas of what you could develop for educational purposes.
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weezo
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« Reply #1686 on: December 19, 2007, 07:31:34 AM »

Actually, Maddie,

You misunderstood what I was working on. I was wondering how to best illustrate to children the concept of millions of years, the numbers. I was not (at this time) looking for theories for the planetary beginnings - I was looking for the understanding of the scope of time required for the evolution of man. It is difficult for children who have only lived for a dozen or less years, to comprehend the distinctions of decades ago, hundreds of years ago, let alone millions of years ago. I had asked if your Princeton had done any work on the evolution of man, not the evolution of the planet and solar system. I may ask the questions you presumed down the line when I move from working on Biology to working on Physics, but right now I haven't even started a link for physics - I'm just working on Biology and have made a few simple tools for Chemistry on the current knowledge of elements. I don't think I even mentioned the Chemisty work since that was done last month. Perhaps you are responding to something I posted early last month???

Perhaps I shared some concern about the current theories of atoms when I was working on chemistry. While the standard explanation is that atoms act similar to planets, there is a more recent theory that suggests that electrons do not have regular circular orbits around the nucleus, that instead they randomly bounce at and off the nucleas in contrast to Boehr's theory.

Whatever your motivation, thanks for the link. I'm sure it will find a use for it sometime in my work on the website. I really was looking for theories that would be understandable to children, not the list of accomplishment of a single scientist. The accomplishments would belong on my Famous American's site, not the science site.

For now, lets return to the discussion of American History and books about same. I am reading The Divided Ground, and becoming thoroughly discusted with the failure of political leaders to rein in the abuses of the Land Speculators who professed the "right" to dispossess the Natives of their real property to line their pockets.

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madupont
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« Reply #1687 on: December 19, 2007, 01:13:03 PM »

You're right you had asked about Bohr prior to your question about how to demonstrate evolutionary population in relation to time. But I thought it best to contact you here where you are rather than Education forum where you hadn't been since Dec.1st. You might not notice it there as it would have my name on the post rather than that the post was addressed to you.
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weezo
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« Reply #1688 on: December 19, 2007, 04:26:18 PM »

Maddie,

I would have seen in on education, since, when I get on this forum, I click on "Show new replies to your posts", which shows the replies on forums I have posted on only. Anything posted on education gets my attention whether I reply or not.

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« Reply #1689 on: December 20, 2007, 05:16:23 PM »

VOILÁ! KUDOS! & HOORAY!!

I finally finished reading the book!!!


Now, I'm going to try to make some more sense of it by re-reading certain portions (confession: I have fallen terribly short of this goal at this point).


OK, here's a summary and I hope this makes some sense: it appears HBA is bemoaning the decline of certain values (Foundational principles such as those affirmed by his Father and Grand Father, as well as other principles affirmed by the Church, and by Western civilization such as Roman and Greek philosophers). He fears that technology is advancing at such an accelerated rate and snowballing to such an extent that society is ill equipped to deal with these changes. Finally, it appears HBA is suggesting that the 20th century will see such advancements, such radical changes that these could possibly bring about a corruption that will prove irreversibly destructive.

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« Reply #1690 on: December 20, 2007, 05:30:37 PM »

Oh, mine don't do that weezo, when I click posts not  yet read, I am as likely to get the hockey scores. I don't read just replies to my own posts but with general interest as to what others have to say about various topics.  Besides, my post would not register as a reply to your post, since  you posted on this quite awhile back, considering how many posts come into American history; where you posted the question to me, at that time.
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« Reply #1691 on: December 20, 2007, 06:42:59 PM »

Having no knowledge of science, I never heard of Siluria, Silurian, or Pteraspis which are terms that frequently appear in Education. According to a Murchison who was a prominent scientist in that era, Siluria is the earliest era that gave rise to life forms such as:




http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/trilobite/siluria.html


What is astonishing is that HBA appears to be suggesting that mankind or perhaps the known universe has not actually evolved or progressed from that era.  He indicates that perhaps La Fontaine was correct by suggesting that the wolf is more 'moral' than humanity. ''It was quite certain that no complete Natural Selection had occurred back to the time of Pteraspis, and that before Pteraspis was void ... {Adams} could  detect no more evolution in life since the Pteraspis ... a force of nature ... since the reign of Pteraspis nothing had greatly changed ... {who} grins horribly from the closed entrance {of history} ...

pp  179-182, 207, 227, 237

Thereafter, HBA uses the creature as a symbol of permanence such as friendship {p 243}, and antiquarian ideals {p 278 et seq}. I find all this to be terribly confusing. Illuminating certainly, as it reveals his deep cynicism, but god awful confusing!
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weezo
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« Reply #1692 on: December 20, 2007, 08:10:42 PM »

Maddie,

You misunderstand. When you click on "Show replies", you get the latest on any forum to which you have posted. I am not one bit interested in sport and never read them. I also do not have the time to devote to the international forums. I would never get anything done if I read all the forums. But, if you post on the education forum even if not a direct reply to something I posted, I will see that there are posts on education and the last was from you.

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weezo
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« Reply #1693 on: December 20, 2007, 08:33:10 PM »

Than,

Although I have not read "Education", I have been doing some research on the evolution of man. Adams may have just lived too early to see the research explode in the 20th century. Mankind is now believed to have emerged late in the Triassic period, and certainly evolved as man changed from the great apes from which he started. The web site is not too far along yet, but you may want to visit http://www.educationalsynthesis.org/mrsp/science/Biology/Humans in the coming weeks/months and see what I have learned. And, humanity is just one of the species that changed from what it was originally. Perhaps the problem for Adams is that evolution can take a long time. I doesn't just happen in a few generations. Man made small steps that each took over a million years each, in its progress to the large brained, meat & plant eating, small toothed being without much body hair, and with a pelvis that supported bipedal walking. In Adams' lifetime, he would not see much, if any "evolution" happen in any species, unless perhaps in insects or single-celled bacteria/viruses where evolution does seem to happen more quickly.  Emergence of viruses, as for example, the flu viruses, seems to happen every year or two causing our medical folks to reinvent the "flu shots" every year against whatever virus has emerged.

The wolf was not anywhere near the earliest animal around, and it, too, has evolved into the various species of dogs that we use for chores and as pets, as well as remaining in its own form as a wild animal.

Seems that this is another area where Adams didn't know his a** from a hole in the ground. Perhaps his "Harvard Education" was to blame, but, if I were to depend on the science I learned in high school, or in college, I would be totally incapable of doing a website on science for today's school children. Science moves ahead rather rapidly (in my lifetime) and if one is going to speak about science, one has to find out what is happening TODAY, not rely on what one learned a few decades back.
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Dzimas
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« Reply #1694 on: December 21, 2007, 04:57:33 AM »

Weezo, I see you are still "smarting" from the beating Menzies took in this forum, but need I remember you again that this is a memoir not a history and as such Adams shouldn't be held accountable for his views on evolution, especially when they were developed during a time when the Origin of Species had only recently made its way into print.  Assuming he even read it.  I think the point Adams is trying to make is that we haven't evolved very much as a moral animal and that technology threatened to consume mankind with its breakneck speed.  This isn't much unlike the arguments we have today over using dead fetuses for stem cell reproduction and other scientific developments that challenge our sense of being.
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