Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
June 18, 2018, 03:28:42 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: As you may have noticed, this is a very old backup, I'm still working through restoring the site.  Don't be surprised if you post and it all goes missing....
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 118 119 [120] 121 122 ... 165
  Print  
Author Topic: American History  (Read 29319 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Dzimas
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4500


I thought you said your name was Nobody.


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1785 on: January 29, 2008, 07:19:38 AM »

I'm still waiting on my copy which apparently took a slow boat from America, but you guys start without me.  These days I am a slow reader.
Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1786 on: January 29, 2008, 11:53:41 PM »

This is the story behind the story, or the Monday Surprise, which followed the Sunday Surprise, be sure to hit the link as well to recommended further info from Washington office of the New York Social Register from which they publish in Manhattan any little thing that might make the East Coast elite a tad bit jealous of something they missed out on by not putting up with Washington,D.C.

(that second link gives you a fuller perspective on the in-fighting that has always taken place)

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/node/3868
Logged
Dzimas
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4500


I thought you said your name was Nobody.


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1787 on: January 30, 2008, 03:58:38 AM »

No sooner do I give up hope that Oppie would arrive anytime before Spring than the American Prometheus shows up on my doorstep this morning.  Hopefully, I will get a fair amount read by Feb. 10.
Logged
barton
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2604


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #1788 on: January 30, 2008, 12:26:05 PM »

Started Howard Zinn's magnum opus this week and am fairly blown away. 
Logged

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
nytempsperdu
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 402


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1789 on: January 31, 2008, 12:17:48 AM »

Say more, barton, please--haven't read Zinn, only about him/his approach. Am winding up 1968 and collecting possibles to follow The White Album.
Logged
barton
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2604


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #1790 on: January 31, 2008, 12:24:34 PM »

Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" has become a classic of demythification and telling history with the objective of telling the story of ordinary people rather than accepting the POV of power elites and, generally, "the winners."  IOW, the history of the U.S. isn't the history of abstract entities like states or nations or corporations.

What grabs me about it is the clarity of the writing and the depth of treatment of what forces really drove people.

 
Logged

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1791 on: January 31, 2008, 01:56:53 PM »

Barton,

I read Zinn several months ago and still have the book on the shelf, if you want to discuss it, I can reread it to bring myself up to date on it. I did find it a fascinating book and quite telling on the back side of the issues we were taught one way in school. It's always good to get the other side of a situation!
Logged
thanatopsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 501



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1792 on: January 31, 2008, 09:42:07 PM »

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but, didn't we consider the possibility of discussing Zinn?  If I recall correctly, some said it was too large a book and that its length and depth would be too burdensome.

Perhaps some here would like to reconsider it for a future discussion.
Logged

''Love much & be forgiven''

- - - Margaret Fuller
Dzimas
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4500


I thought you said your name was Nobody.


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1793 on: February 01, 2008, 08:54:09 AM »

I see Zinn has updated his tome on a People's History of the United States,

http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-1492-Present/dp/0060528370

It has been bantied about since the early days of the Am History forum in the NYTimes, but we usually end up deciding on a book that deals with a particular era.  The idea of telling history from the point of view of the underclass is nothing new.  Bernard de Voto's books are great in this regard.  But Zinn certainly hit a soft spot when this book first came out in 1980.  Anyway, you can read the book at this website:

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 11:15:30 AM by Dzimas » Logged
MrUtley3
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 7673

X'Cessive Mercenary


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1794 on: February 01, 2008, 12:07:15 PM »

Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" has become a classic of demythification and telling history with the objective of telling the story of ordinary people rather than accepting the POV of power elites and, generally, "the winners."  IOW, the history of the U.S. isn't the history of abstract entities like states or nations or corporations.

What grabs me about it is the clarity of the writing and the depth of treatment of what forces really drove people.

 

It's a nice collection of documents.

But it's not what one would call comprehensive.


History is always about people...he tries to take the common people and elevate them to extraordinary status, and that is worth reading and thinking about.

I think a valuable book to read is from about 30+ years ago: "Working" by Studs Terkel.

You really get a sense of classism and social inequity of the period when it was written.

One final note. If you have access to old copies of Mad Magazine--especially from the 1950's through about 1980, you have some phenomenal history in your hands. What a society pokes fun at can surely tell you lots about its values.
Logged

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?
barton
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2604


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #1795 on: February 01, 2008, 01:08:11 PM »

I agree that Zinn covers so much that it makes more sense for a group to read a chunk, on a particular topic.  I myself am guilty of skipping around in it and it may be years before I will have read the whole book.

Thanks for mentioning Terkel, btw -- he's in a teetering pile somewhere and I really want to get back and read him.
Logged

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1796 on: February 01, 2008, 02:49:37 PM »

Dzimas,re:#1840

This has taken me hours to reference but I have mentioned before "Mentalities" of the school of Annales, which I first heard about in 1989 Easter conference at Princeton,Bicenntenial of the FrenchRevolution.

This work was done in the History department of --
École Nationale des Chartes
based at Paris, which is the school for archivists and librarians.  Unlike our system of university education, in France, you work study, and go from your first university courses to work for the government in a Bureau for a number of years, so you can relate to what your education is about as you continue it.

I began today's research with this which relates to our reading in World History of 1968 for something of the major event that caused the May uprising of students in Paris (which by now has 6 divisions of the Sorbonne all located in and around Paris). This  is the event:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_massacre_of_1961#8_February_1962_Charonne_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Duby
Duby was in many ways the most visible exponent of the Annaliste tradition, emphasizing the need to place people and their daily lives at the center of historical inquiry

Histoire des mentalités
Duby was also a pioneer in what he and other Annaliste historians in the 1970s and 80's came to call the "history of mentalities," or the study of not just what people did, but their value systems and how they imagined their world.

[Phillip Aries also worked with Duby, I believe he published with him in the book that I am always trying to find for thanatopsy on the Roman and Greek influences in North African, their settlements, and effects upon the Mediterranean basin, colonizing in France and developing a port city there as well as their other western development in the Iberian peninsula. The development of Languedoc about which I discover something new, everytime that I take the time, that the man who made his capital at Toulouse(much, much after Pontius Pilate was deceased and gone from the Cote d'Azur) went there to govern because he was the cousin of St.Louis, King of France.

But,"Mentalities" works with the working-class, not with kings or governors per se.]

see, also: re: Annales,

Fernand Braudel--http://www.indianoceanworldcentre.com/mission.brudel.html

My point is that I THINK the French may be the forerunners on this line of thought pre-ZINN; but, then Howard Zinn has been around a long time and could readily have beat them to the punch in regard to ordinary people and their work here in the U.S.


Logged
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1797 on: February 01, 2008, 04:21:31 PM »

Zinn was not a difficult book to read. It went rather smoothly. The point of his work is similar to Tuchman, to show how the same mistakes are made over and over, generation to generation. Those who find it offensive to consider "the common people" as people worthy of study, will not enjoy the book. But those who who tire of reading only about the "elite", will welcome it as refreshing.
Logged
nytempsperdu
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 402


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1798 on: February 01, 2008, 11:31:13 PM »

Thanks barton et al re Zinn, which is one I definitely will relish but have no idea when.  It reminds me (and apparently the folks at amazon.com) of Lies My Teacher Told Me  I and many I knew read back in the day
http://www.amazon.com/Lies-My-Teacher-Told-Everything/dp/1595583262/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201926367&sr=8-1

Logged
barton
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 2604


View Profile Email

Ignore
« Reply #1799 on: February 02, 2008, 12:31:25 PM »

Catching up on reading will become easier when you have achieved Superhero status, my son.

 Wink
Logged

"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
Pages: 1 ... 118 119 [120] 121 122 ... 165
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!