Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
June 23, 2018, 01:43:25 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: As you may have noticed, this is a very old backup, I'm still working through restoring the site.  Don't be surprised if you post and it all goes missing....
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 126 127 [128] 129 130 ... 165
  Print  
Author Topic: American History  (Read 29520 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Dzimas
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4500


I thought you said your name was Nobody.


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1905 on: February 17, 2008, 01:52:52 AM »

As I understood, Kitty was pretty much at the end of her marriage, and was quite a charmer herself.  She made it known she wanted to be with Oppenheimer, and Robert couldn't resist the attraction.  From all accounts she was as beautiful as Jean, so let's not forget Oppenheimer's aesthetic tastes, beauty attracts, plus she had been very active in the Communist movement, if seemingly more for romantic reasons.  But, it is bothersome that they turned out to be such lousy parents, especially given that Robert gave so much to his students.  He seemed initially very drawn to his son, which is as far as I am in the book at the moment.  The authors note that Kitty was somehow unable to form an attachment to their son.

The authors do a good job of highlighting the Communist activities occurring at the time, and how Oppenheimer seemed to be attracted to the movement in general.  As I remember reading, he pretty much lost interest in Stalin after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ribbentrop_Pact

as many American communists did.  His focus at the time seemed to be getting Jews out of Nazi Germany, donating heavily to this cause.  The authors note that he was no longer afraid to express himself as Jewish, a sign of new confidence, probably because he felt secure in his job.  The authors speak alot of the subtle and not-so-subtle anti-Semitism at the time.  Maybe one of the reasons for settling in California was because the anti-Semitism was less apparent in a more open society?  All though, the authors noted that Cal had its conservative streak.
Logged
madupont
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 5413


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1906 on: February 17, 2008, 06:03:08 AM »

I missed this reference in #1942 about the Rhodes book and "Slizard".

Could that be Leo Szilard ?
Logged
Dzimas
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 4500


I thought you said your name was Nobody.


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1907 on: February 17, 2008, 07:03:04 AM »

Hoffman, thanks for Oppenheimer's piece on Einstein. 
Logged
Lhoffman
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1989


View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #1908 on: February 17, 2008, 12:17:18 PM »

I missed this reference in #1942 about the Rhodes book and "Slizard".

Could that be Leo Szilard ?


LOL....Thank you Mudopant....Yes, apparently I need a better editor.  At first I thought you were going to tell me you knew him, but then I realized you were kindly pointing out my spelling error.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 12:41:55 PM by Lhoffman » Logged
Lhoffman
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1989


View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #1909 on: February 17, 2008, 12:24:42 PM »

Jews in America at that time had to walk a thin line.  It is my understanding (corrections welcome) that many turned to Communism because of the anti-semitism of the Nazis.  Then a few years later, Communism became The Big Threat and activities and donations that were related to helping European friends and relatives were held against them. 

When the Soviets developed a bomb of their own, Americans quickly forgot the price they had paid in WWII in fighting the Germans. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 12:29:24 PM by Lhoffman » Logged
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1910 on: February 17, 2008, 01:11:12 PM »

Laurie,

In Kurlansky's book about Jewry, he suggests that Americans scrapped anti-semeticism in Germany very shortly after WWII ended. The Truman book said we began to consider the Soviets the enemy as early at as 1945/46 - almost before the ink was dry on the treaty we signed. But, anti-communism got a huge boost when the Soviet's developed their own atomic bomb. Somehow the reasoning was that it was not only OK for us to have one, and it was OK for us to begin to base our military projections on using atomic bombs to "save on manpower", but it was outrageous for the Soviets to have the same technology as we did. I'm not sure how the military squared it in their heads that it was in their interests to have the military supercede the presidency and the constitution, yet insist that the Soviet's were dangerous because their totalitarian government could attack us without having to clear if through their own people.

Logged
thanatopsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 501



View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1911 on: February 17, 2008, 01:41:06 PM »

War broke out and President Roosevelt wasted no time in authorizing scientific research that would match or exceed Nazi military engineering advancements. While the title ''Rapid Rupture'' may seem frivolous, the campaign to advance the splitting of the atom for military purposes was not. But there was a major problem: many American intellectuals were decidedly leftist and there was uncertainty as to whether they represented a potential threat to the nation's military  interests. The FBI kept dossiers and wire taps on some of these potential trouble sources. Indeed, some of them were more than just possible trouble as their loyalty was to the Stalinist regime.

The FBI's monitoring led to the ''Chevalier Affair'' {ch 14} which could well be the most significant part of Prometheus:

No one could get a complete picture on what happened at a gathering at Opp's home in the winter of 1942. Evidently, there had been talk of possibly sending some critical research information to the Soviets as the behest of an Eltenton --- the rationale for this being that they needed the material with which to defend itself against the Nazi onslaught with the idea that it would augment the trust among the allies and further enhance the war efforts successes.

{Ahem ... pardon me for coughing but that does not sound like a plausible scenario to me.}

What precisely was said or how it was presented was and remains under dispute to this day.  The FBI got wind of it and the details became highly significant in the Senate McCarthy hearings and in Opp's security clearance hearings in the 1950s, especially because Opp was less than candid about the details. As the reader will learn later on, Opp made a big mistake by lying about the details in order to save his neck. This proved to be quite critical to him and his career.
Logged

''Love much & be forgiven''

- - - Margaret Fuller
Lhoffman
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1989


View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #1912 on: February 17, 2008, 02:11:58 PM »

Quote
Opp made a big mistake by lying about the details in order to save his neck. This proved to be quite critical to him and his career.

Not to mention the betrayal of his friend Chevalier, who claims he never quite understood why Opp behaved as he did.
Logged
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1913 on: February 17, 2008, 03:13:30 PM »

With some indulgence here, a week or so ago we were discussing the communists (as you are now), and I wondered if comunism was extremely different from our version of democracy and whether China allowed elections as the Soviets had. Someone here suggested I misunderstood the Soviet system, and assured that China did not allow elections. Period.

Well, one of my sisters just called to tell me that in a few hours she will be on her way to China on business. I jokingly said that then she could find out all the things about communism that we are told, but are not true. She said she'd recently read a book written by someone who hiked around China and learned that the Chinese do indeed have elections to elect local officials. It is a secret ballot, and the people, when he asked them who they voted for, said it was a secret. I didn't catch the name of the book or author, but it may have been written by a journalist. She says it was written in 1995, and probably published in 2008.

So, there are local elections in Communist China. Whether parties or just individuals may be in the book if someone figures out from the above what the book is.

Just thought you'd like to know the reality from on the ground. If Jacqi learns any other little know facts about life in a communist country, I will be happy to pass them on.

Seems to me there was a lot of propagandizing going on in this country during the forties/fifties and regarding the danger, or lack of same, from communists. You may want to keep this in mind as you are reading about Oppie's adventures with the FBI.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2008, 03:18:10 PM by weezo » Logged
Bob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 671


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1914 on: February 17, 2008, 05:41:33 PM »

One of the things I like about the book in general is how the author  slowly, almost in in a Hitchcokian way,escalates the Chevalier incident. What was a passing incident  earlier in the book becomes, of course, the  main driver for his final demise.
 Nobody will ever know the what really happened.Even when the participants were alive it would have been impossble to decipher the facts from the viewpoints. It's one of those "he said, she said"  situations and in a court of law it becomes a matter of credibility for he jury to decide. Unfortunately Oppenheimer's credibility was a matter of controversy by the time the issue came to a head and his  lies worked against him. It was the McCarthy Era and accusation equalled conviction. as Nixon said to David Frost: "I gave them the sword and they used it."  That's what Oppenheimer did and it killed him publicly. (I never realized Lewis Strauss, who I used to admire, was such a bastard).

I have the Chevalier book here somewhere. I'll dig it out later and see how credible he was...I never really read it when I got it years ago.
Logged
Bob
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 671


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1915 on: February 17, 2008, 05:47:14 PM »

Weezo: Quantum theory (or Mechanics, if you will) is the leading theory regarding how the universe works. it is "the study  of the laws that apply to the behavior of phenomena  on a very small scale, the scale of molecules and atoms." (PROMETHIUS, page 42) As I pointed out, Einstein thoughht it flawed and spent the rest of his life trying to formulate its invalidity and to devise what he called a Unified Theory. Today, over the past several years a new theory  has devloped---String Theory....I'm not a physicist--don't ask me to explain that one.
Logged
rmdig
Guest

« Reply #1916 on: February 17, 2008, 06:17:20 PM »

What is the Einstein book obliquely referred to in earlier posts?  I happen to be a little more than half way through Ronald Clark's biography of Einstein but that was published in the 1970s.
Logged
Lhoffman
Superhero Member
******
Posts: 1989


View Profile WWW Email

Ignore
« Reply #1917 on: February 17, 2008, 06:18:25 PM »

rmdig....Walter Isaakson
Logged
weezo
Poll Manager
Superhero Member
****
Posts: 3431


Resue when he was a cute little kitten


View Profile WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1918 on: February 17, 2008, 06:21:01 PM »

The title of the book is "Einstein" and it is written by Walter Isaacson, copyright 2007, and the blurb on the cover says it is the first biography of Einstein since all of Einstein's papers have been released. It is a very interesting book.

Logged
Shirley Marcus1
Newbie
*
Posts: 14


View Profile

Ignore
« Reply #1919 on: February 17, 2008, 08:48:30 PM »

Hi all
I have greatly enjoy American Prometheus I think it is a fine book over all.

"No question that Prometheus is a fine read."

Thanks Bob for your later post.
Thank you Dzmis for your contributions also.
All in all Thanatopsy your detailed comments on Oppenheimer are so very helpful always.


``I thought the Oppenheimer book particularly fine, and am certainly looking forward to the Einstein in hopes that it is close to being as well researched and written. ``


No question that Prometheus is a fine read.

 Einstein was an international figure. If possible, for those who are interested in discussing his bio, please do so in the World History section. Let's keep this section for American historical figures.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 126 127 [128] 129 130 ... 165
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!