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weezo
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« Reply #435 on: August 28, 2007, 11:21:41 PM »

Bandwidth is probably not the correct word. I should probably have said server capacity. In any event, someone somewhere is paying for us to use these forums, and it would certainly be nice to use this service efficiently. Repeating post on several forums, copying the exact same message, is not efficient use of the resources.

Remember the days before water restrictions?
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #436 on: August 29, 2007, 12:56:29 AM »

Penis Envy

Speaking of penis-envy, here’s the website where Bosox got his butt-fuck photo he's so proud of. It’s a really skanky atrociously racist and sexist website. If you even remotely thought Bosox’s “he-likes-it” photo was in poor taste, well, just look at these other ones posted there. As Whiskey says, context, context, context. The context of these other photos certainly does illuminate Bosox’s aesthetics if you ask me. Good for a laugh or two—if you got nothing else to do tonight.

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/525-armpit-tattoo.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/rapistsketch.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/859-delusional.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/670-yeah-baby.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/737-nice-bush.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/125-stormtrooper.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/521-thislookswrong.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/515-im-safer-in-iraq.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/917-sexy.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/639-dirty-mind.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/522-saycheese.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/235-big.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/702-yeah-baby.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/730-mean-dog.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/353-hard.jpg

http://media.davesdaily.com/pictures/250-zipit.jpg
« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 10:19:09 PM by pugetopolis » Logged

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« Reply #437 on: August 29, 2007, 04:38:37 AM »

Notes on Sanctuary

Those images tonight—I stayed up and looked at most of them. I didn’t really much feel like Horace Benbow—Sanctuary’s idealistic attorney defeated by the power of evil and corruption.

“…there’s a corruption about even looking upon evil, even by accident: you cannot haggle, traffic, with putrefaction.”—William Faulkner, Sanctuary

I have none of Horace’s illusions about justice or the sanctity of Southern manhood or womanhood. The photos reminded me more of drive-in kitsch and ‘50s sexploitation movies. I wish I could call them campy—but camp has too much class.

Popeye raping Temple Drake with a corn-cob back in the ‘30s may have been a shocker—but all the slasher movies and schlock since then have put Sanctuary, Miss Lonelyhearts and The Day of the Locust in different light.

“Her horrible corn-cob rape by Popeye does not intimate her moral collapse; it merely releases her from the restrictive convention which society has imposed upon her.”—Edmund Volpe, A Readers Guide to William Faulkner, New York: Farrar, Straus & Giroux, 1965, p. 144.

That’s the way I feel about the Bosox images—released from the restrictive conventions society has imposed on me. Each photo—not just pure representation but a different slant, angle, look at things today. The pictures evoke a kind of “verbal cubism” about America—tonight I seem to be in the right narcissistic self-involvement mood to discuss them with myself.

“But as he pivoted on Father Abraham and flags, he moved toward works which took over his inner life to the exclusion of everything else.”—Frederick Karl, William Faulkner: American Writer, New York: Ballantine, 1989, p. 357

Starting with the “armpit-tattoo”—I thought that was a good one. That guy could just as well be a young modern Popeye thug or whitey hip-hop ghetto gangster. Actually he looks more like a typical cute lounge lizard stud—he’s even got a couple of hickies around his pussy armpit. The nightclub scene could just as well be right out of modern Memphis…

“I took a little time out, and speculated what a person in Mississippi would believe to be current trends, chose what I thought was the right answer and invented the most horrific tale I could imagine and wrote it in about three weeks…”—William Faulkner

These photos have a lot of Popeye, Horace and Temple Drake possibilities—just waiting for the right aslant prose, the right sense of place which is not quite place, the right sense of time which is not quite time. Pick a photo—any photo. Write a story about it.

Each photo a “containment”—a story in itself.

Perverse sexuality, money, nonlinear narrative, wasted time, self-righteousness, Ruby Lamar the ex-hooker, Fonzo and Virgil Snopes, Miss Reba’s brothel—the novel sputters. It’s old stuff now…part detective-novel with a gangster theme. So many young handsome Popeye Pumphreys since then—pulp fiction novels, films, porno.

“But in the South art, to become visible at all, must become a ceremony, a spectacle; something between a gypsy encampment and a church bazaar given by a handful of alien mummers who must waste themselves in protest and active self-defense until there is nothing left with which to speak.”—William Faulkner

This circus atmosphere is the thing that stays—whether it’s Mississippi, the Beltway, some airport bathroom with a senator fucking around, some slimy queer right-wing minister on the make in a motel parking lot…

This Popeye, Horace and Temple Drake road show doesn’t stop does it?

Sanctuary is just a cheap pulp fiction pot-boiler like Faulkner said—or was that just a put-on?

Faulkner had just about as much artistic guilt and literary snobbism as a flat tire.

Or was there something else going on?





« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 10:19:39 PM by pugetopolis » Logged

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« Reply #438 on: August 29, 2007, 09:58:59 PM »

Finished Absalom redux.  I guess I'm ready. 

Communication is very important to me and although Faulkner is very capable he doesnt do it efficiently.  This is certainly not a book suitable for social beings who might respond to a question now and then, fit a sentence between innings or wipe before everything is dry and crusty.

His characters all have the same voice whether Canadian collegiate or woefully uneducated southern spinster.
The "Shreve sounds like grandfather" doesnt cut it.

I rooted for Bon and hoped he would appear in the finale, I dont know why Henry had been there 4 years and I have no idea why Quentin dies in 1910 and I await anyone's interpretation of the title that doesnt have to do with the "other".


Reader:

I have no idea about Stiles and baseball.  Do you?
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« Reply #439 on: August 29, 2007, 10:18:23 PM »

Quote
I rooted for Bon and hoped he would appear in the finale, I dont know why Henry had been there 4 years and I have no idea why Quentin dies in 1910 and I await anyone's interpretation of the title that doesnt have to do with the "other".


I wondered how Rosa knew he was there.  But to find out why Quentin dies (and is resurrected) in 1910, you need to proceed to "The Sound the the Fury."
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johnr60
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« Reply #440 on: August 29, 2007, 10:27:00 PM »

The author has till the final period to present hios case.
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« Reply #441 on: August 29, 2007, 10:34:56 PM »

[...] I rooted for Bon and hoped he would appear in the finale, [...]

Oxoby, Robert J., "On the Efficiency of AC/DC: Bon Scott versus Brian Johnson" (May 2007). University of Calgary Economics Discussion Paper No. 2007-08

Abstract:     
We explore the effects of listening to the music of AC/DC in a simple bargaining environment.

http://www.econ.ucalgary.ca/fac-files/rjo/wp0807.pdf

***SPOILER ALERT***

Brian beat out Bon
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #442 on: August 29, 2007, 11:42:11 PM »

AC/DC Faulkner

“Both Absalom and The Sound and the Fury hint broadly and unsubtly about the homoerotic tension between Quentin and Shreve. The triangle comprised of Bon, Henry and Judith specifically replicates in a slightly more obvious manner, that triangle made up of Quentin, Caddy and Dalton Ames in the earlier novel.”—Noel Polk, Children of the Dark House: Text and Context in Faulkner, Jackson: University Press of Mississippi, 1996, p. 141.

Thanks nnyhav—but wrong AD/DC. The topic is AD/DC Faulkner.

Faulkner critics are moving from race to sexuality lately to interpret TSATF and Absalom, Absalom. The AC/DC relationships between Bon and Henry as well as between Quentin and Shreve haven’t been explicated in detail like other literary topics.

The fact that “incestuous miscegenation” plays a key role in Absalom will automatically disqualify certain uptight readers who refuse to discuss homosexuality in regard to Faulkner’s novels.

If there’s a spoiler alert—that’s it. I’m interested in communication too—and most of you know me from our NYTimes discussions. Hoffman and I are on the same wavelength—and so is Reader. I remember, John, that we had a fairly good discussion with Johan Huizinga and The Autumn of the Middle Ages monthly forum several months ago.

If everybody’s read Absalom, I’m ready to go. If not, I would prefer to wait. Reading chapter by chapter thru a complex book is a linear waste of time as far as I’m concerned. It would help to have already read TSATF as well—but that’s asking for the moon.

One of the nice things about the NYTimes Readers Group was the discipline of having a tight timeline to discuss the books. This is the first readers group discussion I’ve thought about here in Elba. That gives us flexibility to do Absalom in different ways. I'm open to that and look forward to it.

I’ve pretty much already shared with Fiction my own redux version of Faulkner—I’m hoping to get my hands on some of the papers delivered at the July Yoknapatawpha Conference at Ole Miss. The conference topic was Faulkner and Sexuality—which is what I’m interested in. I’ve prepared a bibliography for those interested. Please see the conference call for papers annoucement in my next message.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 10:06:26 PM by pugetopolis » Logged

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« Reply #443 on: August 29, 2007, 11:44:25 PM »

Faulkner’s Sexualities—Faulkner and Yoknapatawpha Conference  July 22–26, 2007

http://www.outreach.olemiss.edu/events/faulkner/

William Faulkner grew up and began his writing career during a time of great cultural upheaval, not the least aspect of which was in the realm of sexuality. Every normative notion of sexual identity and sexual relationship was ripe for reexamination, every form of behavior and utterance probed for its sexual implication. Not only does Faulkner explore multiple forms of sexuality throughout his work, he also studies their implications within various social, economic, and racial concerns. Quentin Compson’s obsession over decaying social standards in The Sound and the Fury is complicated by the incestuous desires seemingly designed to purify what he regards as sexual violation. Same-sex attraction in Absalom, Absalom! is both the screen for racial hatred and its hidden core. Sexuality and trade in The Hamlet antagonize and inspire each other. Above all, the sexual and psychosexual dimensions of race relations is always a factor, a straight and/or queer dynamic inseparable from an intimacy that underlies even the most violent situations.

The cartoon pictured here on the conference was drawn by Faulkner and appeared in a 1924 Ole Miss publication called The Scream. Prior to the beginning of his career as a novelist, Faulkner as visual artist was already bringing together some of the issues of sexuality he would probe so deeply in his fiction: the male “gaze” as a form of sexual objectification, the “blackness” of sexual mystery, the interaction of heterosexual and same-sex dynamics.

The 34th annual Faulkner and Yoknapatawpha Conference—“Faulkner’s Sexualities”—will explore for five days of lectures, panel discussions, tours, and social gatherings some of the complex possibilities of his treatment of sexuality. Among the scholars who will be appearing at the conference are John Duvall of Purdue University, Jaime Harker of the University of Mississippi, Catherine Gunther Kodat of Hamilton College, Deborah McDowell of the University of Virginia, Gary N. Richards of the University of New Orleans, Dawn Trouard of the University of Central Florida, and Michael Zeitlin of the University of British Columbia.

Some of the themes and tentative titles of the conference papers, illustrating how diverse and wide-ranging the sexualities of Faulkner’s fiction can be, are Duvall’s “Faulkner and Black Sexuality”; Harker’s “‘A Summer of Wysteria’: Female Homoerotics and the Reconstruction of the Southern Family”; Kodat’s look at the question of how Faulkner reads queer theory; Richards’s study of same-sex desire in Faulkner’s early fiction, including Mosquitoes, in the context of New Orleans culture; Trouard’s “The Best Time They Never Had: Faulkner’s Bored Women”; and Zeitlin’s essay on the relations between Faulkner’s treatment of sexuality and the Cold War.
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« Reply #444 on: August 30, 2007, 12:21:46 AM »

Reading Absalom, Absalom is a whole 'nother story when you add in the Quentin's feelings for his sister Caddie.  What was Quentin really thinking as he froze in his dorm room and regaled Shreve with the story of Henry/Judith/Bon?  And how does the whole Shreve/Quentin/Caddie interrelationship influence his re-creation of the Colonel and Henry/Judith/Bon?
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« Reply #445 on: August 30, 2007, 04:14:35 AM »



Hoffman—since you enjoy book cover art, here’s the cover of the original 1929 Cape & Smith edition of Faulkner’s The Sound and the Fury. Here’s another even better example from Between the Covers Rare Books

http://www.betweenthecovers.com/btc/reference_library/title/1000043

A first edition sells for $15,000.00. Here is the ABAA listing:

Faulkner, William. The Sound and the Fury.
New York: Cape & Smith, 1929. First edition Patterned boards, white cloth spine. Slight shelf wear to edges, a very nice copy. Dust jacket with minor breaks on the folds, slight wear at the extremities, red on spine faded, front fairly bright. 
Price: $15,000.00

http://search.abaa.org/dbp2/search.php

Perhaps down the line we can get into the cover art and artist—which is an interesting story in itself.
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« Reply #446 on: August 30, 2007, 04:29:53 AM »

Reading Absalom, Absalom is a whole 'nother story when you add in the Quentin's feelings for his sister Caddie.  What was Quentin really thinking as he froze in his dorm room and regaled Shreve with the story of Henry/Judith/Bon?  And how does the whole Shreve/Quentin/Caddie interrelationship influence his re-creation of the Colonel and Henry/Judith/Bon?

What was Quentin really thinking as he froze in his dorm room and regaled Shreve with the story of Henry/Judith/Bon?

In Quentin’s reconstruction of Absalom’s narrative, both Sutpen and Henry perform the very acts that in TSATF he, Quentin, cannot. Thus Absalom, Absalom is, among other things, Quentin’s fantasy in which he simultaneously enacts the preservation of his sister’s honor and the destruction of the darker impulses toward incest and homoeroticism that he cannot face.

“It is very much worth noting that none of the narrators in Absalom, least of all Quentin, proposes that Henry kills Bon for the same reason that Quentin wants to kill Dalton Ames, though it would seem natural: not to prevent incest or miscegenation, but to preserve that part of the family honor resident in his sister’s maidenhead. To put it another way, like Quentin, Henry may just want to control his sister’s body, to try to contain Judith’s sexuality, as other Faulkner males have done. I believe that we have not explored this possibility because we have heretofore, in Absalom, been so completely caught up in race, and I’d suggest, as an aside, that our collective failure, as Faulkner readers, to face the gender problematics of Absalom stems from the same collective need to evade the issue as Quentin and Shreve evince: that is, for Faulknerians, race seems to be easier to deal with than gender.”—Noel Polk, Children of the Dark House: Text and Context in Faulkner, Jackson: University Press of Mississippi, 1996, p. 141.

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« Reply #447 on: August 30, 2007, 05:25:53 AM »

Reading Absalom, Absalom is a whole 'nother story when you add in the Quentin's feelings for his sister Caddie.  What was Quentin really thinking as he froze in his dorm room and regaled Shreve with the story of Henry/Judith/Bon?  And how does the whole Shreve/Quentin/Caddie interrelationship influence his re-creation of the Colonel and Henry/Judith/Bon?

And how does the whole Shreve/Quentin/Caddie interrelationship influence his re-creation of the Colonel and Henry/Judith/Bon?

There’s a complex double three-way implied by Absalom—the Quentin-Caddy-Dalton triangle and the Henry-Judith-Bon triangle. These double three-ways are rife with homo- and heteroerotic implications for the characters and, perhaps, for the author. The former we can read into the text for; the latter we can discuss along the lines of modern biographers and postmodern critics. Some very interesting material.

Here is how the three-ways work for both TSATF and AA. Here is an often-quoted key-text:

“In fact, perhaps this is the pure and perfect incest: the brother realizing that the sister’s virginity must be destroyed in order to have existed at all, taking that virginity in the person of the brother-in-law, the man whom he would be if he could become, metamorphose into, the lover the husband; by whom he would be despoiled, choose for despoiler, if he could become, metamorphose into the sister, the mistress, the bride.”--William Faulkner, Absalom, p. 80.

Does Colonel Sutpen know that Bon and Henry are lovers? Do Bon and Henry confess to or in some way display a homosexual relationship? They pretty much stuck close together during the Christmas visit and at Ole Miss--and of course later in New Orleans and during the Civil War. They pretty much ignored Judith during that fateful Christmas visit; that might have been enough for Sutpen to reject Bon and for Henry to reject Sutpen and ride away with Bon.

Other narrators have suggested that possibility; throughout, Quentin’s father has given us—and Quentin—an effeminate and foppish Bon plus a Henry dazzled by the sophisticated cosmopolite. Quentin also seems to act effeminate and gay during several encounters at Harvard; his relationship with Shreve is very close and intimate. Shreve continuously presses Quentin to open up the other three-way narrative and tell his story through them; it reminds me of a deposition sometimes with Shreve asking questions, wanting proof, asking for exhibits, probing for motivations and explanations that sometimes even Quentin hasn't thought of or even wants to know. Often the story has a strong homoerotic subtextual undertow to it; often the omniscient observer knows more than Quentin does about the 50-year-old earlier affair that he's been sucked into. Shreve is relentless; he ends up a doctor but perhaps should have gone into law.

So it's a double three-way or love triangle; a complex but interesting way to explore not only race and miscegenation; but also other matters like the queer text of brotherly incest, incestuous miscegenation and brother-sister-lover relationships. Quentin seems fascinated yet repelled by the the Henry-Judith-Bon love-triangle which went a lot further than the Quentin-Caddy-Dalton triangle. If you may recall from TSATF, Dalton and Quentin wrestle on a bridge, but Dalton is gentle with Quentin because he sees a lot of Caddy in Quentin: his goodlooks, his young impetuous personality, his perhaps closeted desire for Dalton the handsome lover of his sister. Quentin struggles with all this; he ends it all by jumping off another bridge where neither Dalton or Shreve can save him. It's a tragedy -- whether one calls it unrequited love or closetry...

I think that an open-minded reading of Absalom will reveal Quentin as a closet case -- much more closety and in a state of denial than Henry Sutpen was with Bon. When he says "I don't hate it," he's not just expressing his feelings about the South but he's also talking about his own sexual struggles and disposition. He does hate himself for being gay; that's why he jumps off the bridge. Perhaps getting too deeply into the other love-triangle pushed him over the edge? Of course, there are other readings but to me Absalom is like a more gay rereading of TSATF. It's another way Faulkner could complexify a novel so that the strange depths of human feelings and relationships can be more fully explored by both author and reader. Many of Faulkner's friends in New Orleans and Mississippi were gay; and they played very important roles in his career as a writer. Context, context, context. Which is another reason for getting into this topic.

Back at LSU this complexity flummoxed me; and it still does. But being more mature now and having gone through some similar relationships, I find both Absalom and TSATF to be ahead of their time in terms of gender issues germane to me.







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« Reply #448 on: August 30, 2007, 12:40:10 PM »

Quentin and Henry, with their backgrounds and educations would have been quite familiar with the histories of ancient Greece and Rome.   Much of the Antebellum social heirarchy seems modeled around that of patrician Rome and ancient Greece (often extended even into architecture).  Put in this context, and considering the ethos and mores of ancient Rome and Greece, the ideas of incest or homosexuality would be less shocking than they would have been to the common everyday churchgoing folk.   Miscenegation would be the ultimate taboo, as the antebellum South, (as did ancient Rome and Greece) put a high value on social class and structure.

As to Quentin being more closeted than Henry and Bon....perhaps this is related to the idea of the twilight of the gods....the south as a dying civilization in the wake of the Civil War.


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« Reply #449 on: August 30, 2007, 05:05:26 PM »

....the south as a dying civilization in the wake of the Civil War.


Yes, but I’d go a little bit further and say that perhaps the ultimate taboo was “incestuous miscegenation” which Faulkner looks at with his novels.

TSATF—the Caddy, Quentin, Dalton ménage-a-trois.

Absalom—the Bon, Henry, Judith ménage-a-trois.

Dysfunctional families tho aren’t limited to the South—either antebellum or now.

Perhaps it’s just that Southerners like Faulkner, Capote, Harper Lee, Eudora Welty, Walker Percy, Tennessee Williams come from a storytelling tradition that flows like a summer breeze through the wisteria and bougainvillea vines on a verandah at night and there’s nothing else to do except sip a julep and tell the Story…

over and over again


« Last Edit: September 02, 2007, 10:09:32 PM by pugetopolis » Logged

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