Escape from Elba
Exiles of the New York Times
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Author Topic: Fiction  (Read 25254 times)
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #525 on: September 07, 2007, 10:03:54 PM »

reader:

Meanwhile, your ursidic comments on Faulkner ring true. 

I  believe this is not a reflection of the talents of writer, but of the reader.


I have no idea what ursidic means...

I searched thru dictionaries, the net, google...zip.

Maybe it's a fancy hoity-toity Jungian word for a bowel movement...

Too bad you didn't even try reading Absalom...maybe your comments would have been more germane.

And informed...like with Beowulf and Johan Huizinga...

I'm surprised and somewhat disappointed in you, John...

The thing that amazes me about many Elba and NYTimes readers is that they come into a book discussion acting like know-it-alls demanding writers like Faulkner conform to their own bourgeois conceptions of what the writing project is, what the book says and how other readers should read that books...

That's kinda bossy don't ya think...I call it sheer ignorance.

Give me a ghetto kid without any education or attitude...they don't even have to know how to read.

Let them watch and listen to Faulkner or any other writer on You-Tube or DVD read their work...

And they understand...a lot better than many so-called educated baby-boomers or child-idiots...

Don't take it personally...my "Anima" made me do it.

I'm like Nabokov...I despise Freud as a fraud...






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weezo
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« Reply #526 on: September 07, 2007, 10:39:20 PM »

Puget,

There was something about your reference last post to the understanding of the ghetto kid who couldn't read that took me back to a year when I was teaching American Lit to my LD and EMR students, and we were slogging through some heavy stuff. The Scarlet Letter by Hawthorne was listed as a MUST READ for the course, and I knew that it would be hopeless to try to drag my kids through reading it, so I got a copy of the old silent version of the movie, and they LOVED IT. They chattered on for days about the various significances in the story.

By contrast, we had a copy of The Pearl in the lit book that I was using, and tried, in two years to get a class through it with no success. Again, I got the movie, but they found that just as hopeless. I didn't bother to try The Pearl a third year. There is so much other good stuff out there that engages kids so much better.

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Lhoffman
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« Reply #527 on: September 07, 2007, 10:55:19 PM »

Here's my confession, Reader....I had to use the chronology at the back of my edition and pre-read the end notes as well. 

I have to disagree with you Johnr.  I think Faulkner purposely made this difficult.  Long sentences, speakers who share the same voice, unreliable narration....very tough going.   



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Lhoffman
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« Reply #528 on: September 07, 2007, 11:00:16 PM »


Like that thicket wood, I can't find a trail in Absalom. 


Well, maybe that's the idea.

Memory is a labyrinth. It's not linear. It's not cause and effect.

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Lhoffman
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« Reply #529 on: September 07, 2007, 11:02:33 PM »


Like that thicket wood, I can't find a trail in Absalom. 


Well, maybe that's the idea.

Memory is a labyrinth. It's not linear. It's not cause and effect.


Memory....not particularly reliable, either. 
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johnr60
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« Reply #530 on: September 07, 2007, 11:12:33 PM »

I do surprise and often disappoint, I do not cut and paste well.  I dont know what ursidic means, I made it up, but I'll bet reader knows and my post was directed to him. 

The following was posted quite some time ago.  I cant find it so here's a repeat:


puget
 
Of course Faulkner is a fine writer.  I have read Absalom at least twice, the last of these recently and have said what I think of the work with little response (only hoffman, if memory serves). 

If I have not responded to your stuff on homosexuality, the other and Borges and Faulkner, it's not because I did not read them, it's because I do not relate to them. Certainly I view them as an opinion which I allow without feeling a need to disagree, even though I do.

In the meantime, I would suggest that ignorance is a term that any true educator would be extremely careful in using.

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johnr60
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« Reply #531 on: September 07, 2007, 11:14:46 PM »

hoffman

nothing would be further from my mind than Faulkner making it intentionally difficult for the reader. 
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #532 on: September 07, 2007, 11:17:15 PM »

Absalom is fiction...not nonfiction.

Fiction and fairy tales don't have to be reliable...reliable to what?

Reliability means repeatability and scientific proof in the sciences...

But reading and writing aren't sciences...

Borges and the Tower of Babel...the mirrors...Tlon...

What could be more labyrinthine than a writer's imagination?

What is a Labyrinth?

Acausal? Synchronicity?

Naw not that...that sounds too Jungian...

Ain't no Ariadnian Thread in & out...

Borges says it's hopeless...

Faulkner...I dunno...










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“Other people's obsessions
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #533 on: September 07, 2007, 11:27:35 PM »

Absalom is fiction...not nonfiction.

Fiction and fairy tales don't have to be reliable...reliable to what?

Reliability means repeatability and scientific proof in the sciences...


Reliability....each narrator presents a different Sutpen.  Who is right?  All?  None?  Part of what makes this difficult is the constant sifting through alternate realities.

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pugetopolis
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« Reply #534 on: September 07, 2007, 11:31:11 PM »


If I have not responded to your stuff on homosexuality, the other and Borges and Faulkner, it's not because I did not read them, it's because I do not relate to them. Certainly I view them as an opinion which I allow without feeling a need to disagree, even though I do.

I don't feel a need to disagree with your heterosexualist breeder agenda either...even though I think it stinks.

Quote

In the meantime, I would suggest that ignorance is a term that any true educator would be extremely careful in using.


Please don't threaten me. I'm not a teacher or member of Academe...like you seem to be.

I'm a writer and published poet...I speak for myself. I'm a member of the Nation Writers Union...

I'm not an academic whore...did you lick ass for tenure? Or did publish and perish do you in?

So don't lay that "don't ask don't tell" keep-silent routine on me...

And don't tell me what I can say or not say on the Internet.

After this week, I don't care about poeple like you...

Why cast pearls before swine...that's right, swine.
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“Other people's obsessions
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weezo
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« Reply #535 on: September 07, 2007, 11:43:22 PM »

Puget,

I thought you said you preferred being a lover not a fighter? Then you attack John, when he is politely answering your question. He didn't say anything negative about your preferred sexual style, but you sure loaded your response with negatives!

As to writing vs academia, there is more than one purpose for writing. I don't know if John is in academia or not, but you sure shot a lot of venim at that possibility. Why?

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pugetopolis
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« Reply #536 on: September 08, 2007, 02:09:25 AM »

Forget it.

Wild Palms is cancelled.

Have a nice weekend.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2007, 02:18:59 AM by pugetopolis » Logged

“Other people's obsessions
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josh
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« Reply #537 on: September 10, 2007, 11:44:34 AM »

Not everything's logical and right brain like John thinks.

Just a quick obsessive note:

Logical normally maps to left brain, creative to right side, in that dichotomous view of the world.
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martinbeck3
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« Reply #538 on: September 10, 2007, 01:20:46 PM »

Puget, for me The Wild Palms are ON .They are real hot news.

I can smell the places,see them,feel them.Awesome writing ( nothing new to you,I suppose, but it´s so good to discover a Master Writer.

I read half the book in one long shot Sunday afternoon.I think it is wonderful ,anybody can understand it who can read though I have more questions than answers and some funny things I found in the Borges translation.

Question 1: why is Faulkner´s character-the doctor- so angry with bourgeois society? He destets it. He reminds me of Steppenwolf who detested but at the same time longed for it (when he ,another Harry, walked along the streets and looked into the interior of the homes and  saw the little plant on the satircase and imagined the hands that had placed it there).The Dr.´s wife is the pattern on which Cortázar used for his Maga in Rayuela (Hopscotch).

Question 2: some chapters,the ones that refer to the doctor and his wife are called Las Palmeras Salvajes , the others -the ones of the prisoners- "El Viejo" (the old man).Borges on a note says it refers to the Old Man River,I think he is right because the river is always present in those chapters (couldn´t help remembering Katrina and my own tour through the region). 

Question ·: when will I know the reason for two parallel plots?

...and much,much more soon.My copy is scribbled all over.
sht. now I HAVE to work !

   
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pugetopolis
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« Reply #539 on: September 10, 2007, 10:04:30 PM »

Logical normally maps to left brain, creative to right side, in that dichotomous view of the world.

You're right. I've corrected my post. Thank you.
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“Other people's obsessions
are more often funny than tragic.”
—Vincent Canby, The New York Times
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