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Exiles of the New York Times
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madupont
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« Reply #450 on: December 30, 2009, 08:25:11 PM »

Hi, Maddie.  When are you going to tell weezo that Diane isn't your name?   Cheesy

My friend says emergencies are sent to Slidell Memorial, which has a state-of-the-art trauma center.  Bet you anything that emergency room didn't handle trauma back in the day.  She said she assumes LSU interns share Tulane Hospital with Tulane interns now.


She's like a little kid who does what the "big" kids do; heard it from her closest friend that she met at the nytimes.com who had dug it up, "she" says although it was actually the old friend's new friend who bragged about it first and that he was sending "she" to read correspondence under that name and report back to him.  It was very high bragging.  I had to get the detective in charge of protecting research in jeopardy,  when  such messes  are  contrary to the statutes of California.

My youngest sister mentioned driving me out with more than a few stops on the way meandering through the Southwest, which means I can go through it myself and establish what's what, after visiting a few old friends, then I can check out a few new places new to me at least that I've been wanting to do, "play with my son" as we are a generation apart. Depending what I get done before then. Putting everything in storage is one thing; moving it another.

You know, I was as surprised as anyone( after nytimes.com , where people looked at your tag and tried to approximate what they thought it was, everything from madu to madhu) when donotremove began calling me Maddy.  I am pretty sure that when valle-inclan asked me what my cybernym meant that I told him it was what my mother called a, "nom de plume" and that it was my cousin's name  who may or may not still be living in Austin,Texas at a very advanced age, I can't write to her as she has suffered from macular degeneration although her in-laws there said that she used the computer for awhile. (I think because you could increase the font size comfortably to read).

However, I explained to  "admin" a few times that I was under the impression from reading through the info for this site( after a fellow former poster from nytimes.Western Europe forum had talked me into signing up here) that it said something about using posters  names injudiciously would get you expelled.  No response. 

(Said former poster at nytWE  simply didn't have the time; after all, his job kept him too busy in Paris with a view of the Luxembourg Gardens from his office and then there is the month long summer vacation  to the Cote d'Azur or religious occasions where you hike  to look at Neuschwanstein castle  for a few days with the old friends before going back to the Riviera to meet new friends or, job related trips to Martinique. And this guy is a "Socialist" in a Sarkozy government!)

So actually I did tell weezo that she had the wrong name(but then weezo isn't her name either and now she insists that she never gave her name to all of us with her family recipe collection).

Which reminds me....

But, nice talking to you, and that is only part one. There's another part two about real names versus pseudonyms; and possibly a part three but I forget what that was about. It will come to me, later,(oh, then there are the guys who think it is the height of something or other to call me
"madpoint"!
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barton
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« Reply #451 on: January 02, 2010, 01:29:23 PM »

The occasional chats here (in Meander, or Pets, or the Science threads) about eating animals, and the ethical issue of if animals suffer as we would in factory farming conditions, came to mind as I recently picked up "Kinds of Minds" by noted cognitive psychologist and philosopher Daniell Dennett.  I really recommend this as the most lucid book I've encountered on the whole matter of animal minds and what, if any, sentience and awareness they might have -- and what we can possibly know about this.   Some chapters, as one on "Intentionality" get into some pretty deep philosophic waters, but one can skim past them and still follow pretty well what he has to say about consciousness and what it's about.

 
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Donotremove
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« Reply #452 on: January 02, 2010, 02:02:36 PM »

Barton, thanks for the recommendation of "Kinds of Minds".  Speaking of animals and the eating, or not, thereof, Temple Grandin will be starring in a documentary on HBO in February, she of the "correct way to kill livestock."

Now if we could just cut down on meat eating to the point where factory farming would not be necessary . . . .
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knoxharrington
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« Reply #453 on: January 11, 2010, 12:26:07 PM »

Loss of farm land will probably do the job.  When it gets to where we need the 50% now growing feed crops, to grow people crops, it will force us to be more vegan.

I've read Dennett somewhere, but always have trouble with that whole "we're just chemicals and neurons sparking" stuff.   

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barton
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« Reply #454 on: January 15, 2010, 11:43:23 AM »

Everyone has trouble with that -- even Dennett acknowledges that the human mind naturally makes dualistic explanations of the universe, i.e. distinguishing between matter and spirit.   It's so woven into our languages that it's almost impossible not to think that way. 

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madupont
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« Reply #455 on: January 15, 2010, 03:47:58 PM »

Loss of farm land will probably do the job.  When it gets to where we need the 50% now growing feed crops, to grow people crops, it will force us to be more vegan.

I've read Dennett somewhere, but always have trouble with that whole "we're just chemicals and neurons sparking" stuff.   




Strangely enough, Knox, it already has before loss of feed crop land. We are importing our vegetables, that never fail to show up weekly at the nearest supermarket, from countries to whom we distributed the toxic substances we are no longer allowed to use within the US for application to cultivated fields. 

How's this for fancy> I "eschew" buying these but I may not be able to eat particular vegetables as they replace US grown. They are already canned and frozen in Peru,  for off-season use in the US.   I am not talking about general benefits here when I say that I lose the medical benefits of specific vegetable like asparagus when I can not include it in my diet because it is grown in Peru.

So like the movement that was established to eat food produced in season preferably close to home (to avoid high transportation costs based on petroleum fuel).  I eat asparagus very quickly through the main season of production harvested in New Jersey(which also produces blueberries and cranberries. That reminds me I better bake some before they go bad, cranberries with walnuts in a loaf-pan or something of the kind.

Anyway, then I move on to the next vegetable in season. I already avoid eating meat mainly from species that require you to have a vaccine as antidote to the flu which they seem to catch and proved fatally terminal.  Ever wonder why the farmers who handle them because they raise them do seem to get this disease even when the animals themselves do not seem to have it?

One of the greater mysteries of the Christian religion which picks and chooses what they want from the teachings of Christ(please, I am being ironic here, so don't label me for pointing this out)  have a handy way of forgetting that he apparently cured some woman  of some devilment that had taken over her body and wow, when he cast them out -- they simple ran over and off a cliff noticeably as pigs. The woman lived. He didn't.

I've also been avoiding meat from the slaughterhouse where they  zip it through a meat saw cutting into the bone.  After spending  time in conversations with an Amish butcher, purveyor of Amish suppliers' slaughtered beef through that late 1990s early 2000s period of the European mad cow period, comparing present methods compared to how my grandfather went about it by stunning the animal by hitting it on the head, after a decade my friend the butcher tells me he no longer can guarantee that he knows whether a particular cut of meat comes from an animal that was organically fed.  It makes a difference as I notice the Amish still will still feed offal(the entrails of slaughtered beef
to chickens  by throwing it out in the chicken yard). 

Strangely enough when my grandfather was done with the morning  milking  of the  herd of dairy cows, he took a portion  across the front yard in front of the house and over to his pigs who were raised European style  having their own fields of cabbage as their run from their "caves" of stone built into an embankment to support a corn-shed. He would pour the milk in the mash barrel with grain for their breakfast. In other words, pigs then ate pretty much the same kind of breakfast that people now eat today, cereal with milk.

(I'm of European breakfast - coffee and breads - descent.)

Maybe that Julie Powell was on to something taking up chasing butchers because she rued her own non-dexterity and they were so precise; so, she studied by apprenticing herself, after her first book on Julia Child and her own ( Julie Powell ) conquering  of all the recipes Julia Child ever learned  to cook.  She was amazed how they could rapidly and precisely cut through where the cartilage will be at the ends of joints so accurately. Which of course is what it takes. This way she doesn't have to write a third book.
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desdemona222b
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« Reply #456 on: February 02, 2010, 12:09:12 PM »

The occasional chats here (in Meander, or Pets, or the Science threads) about eating animals, and the ethical issue of if animals suffer as we would in factory farming conditions, came to mind as I recently picked up "Kinds of Minds" by noted cognitive psychologist and philosopher Daniell Dennett.  I really recommend this as the most lucid book I've encountered on the whole matter of animal minds and what, if any, sentience and awareness they might have -- and what we can possibly know about this.   Some chapters, as one on "Intentionality" get into some pretty deep philosophic waters, but one can skim past them and still follow pretty well what he has to say about consciousness and what it's about.

 

Hi, Barton -

Tell me more!  I've wondering about this topic since Temple Grandin mentioned in her literature that she doesn't believe animals necessarily experience pain in the same way humans do.
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barton
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« Reply #457 on: February 03, 2010, 10:54:03 AM »

It's been a month or more since I read it...let me think a moment (being the conscious self-aware being that I am)...

Well, he talks about how animals may act as if they have a "concept" of something, but that we may just be projecting that onto them.  Language lets us form ideas that are not rooted in the here and now, ideas outside of the immediate moment and instinctive responses.  He looks at what species, if any, can do this.  Someone might project "fear of death" onto a cow as it walks the ramp into the slaughterhouse, but it may have no idea of its own demise and simply be acting anxiously because of certain immediate things around it, e.g. being separated from its herd, hearing loud noises, bad smells, etc.  It may feel fear, but its fear wouldn't be specific in the way that ours would be. 
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desdemona222b
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« Reply #458 on: February 04, 2010, 06:16:06 AM »

Interesting.  That kinda jibes with Grandin's assertion that cows going to slaughter really freak out because they're being forced to walk into a dark area, so they balk and so forth.  I noticed after that that my old dog, who is partially blind, won't walk into a darkened area either.  The behavior is consistent and makes sense.

I remember when I was a kid, a tornado came along one night and blew away about a quarter of the town, but it all happened miles away and we weren't aware of anything other than the fact that we had some storms.  The family dog crawled under the bed hours before this happened and refused to emerge until the next morning.  So this kind of thing isn't really as uncanny as some people think.
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knoxharrington
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« Reply #459 on: February 05, 2010, 12:20:38 PM »

Grandin will be on NPR's "Fresh Air" this evening. 
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Donotremove
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« Reply #460 on: February 05, 2010, 02:57:55 PM »

The movie about Grandin will air on HBO tomorrow night, Saturday, at 8PM Eastern.
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barton
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« Reply #461 on: February 06, 2010, 01:35:40 PM »

Claire Danes!  Almost makes me want to get cable.
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weezo
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« Reply #462 on: February 06, 2010, 05:54:03 PM »

Dianne/Maddie,

Whatever gave you the notion that coffee and breads are a "European" breakfast? Have you wholely forgotten about porridge?
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madupont
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« Reply #463 on: February 07, 2010, 05:38:39 PM »

Donotremove
The movie about Grandin will air on HBO tomorrow night, Saturday, at 8PM Eastern.


That was a daunting experience, in more ways than one. Did anybody else thus far consider that Claire Danes may have gone a bit overboard in the intensity of her acting, as the viewing accumulated.

(I mean that I understand how autism is emphatic and can get over-loudly more and more intense in expression.)  The change-over in Danes' appearance at present with that of her character: Temple Grandin was quite daunting for me as she so strongly resembled an older cousin of mine who also lived in Arizona for a considerable part of her life, used to make the rodeo circuit, until the family relocated to San Francisco.  

I have completely forgotten whether she returned to Arizona or is she in New Mexico after marrying a scholar in Native American tribal relationships,as I last heard from her just a few years prior to the death of my mother.  Something that she happened to mention and the way that she emphasized it, caused me to recall a good deal more than I found pleasant about our earlier, younger lives.

Outside of that diverting from the program itself dramatic as it was, I think the person who most surprised me in a role so unusually different than her usual casting to "type" was Julie Ormand as the mother. Which reminds me, I want to read her book; it was recently mentioned in one of the reviews of the "upcoming" tv drama, that I had read just in the last few days.
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harrie
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« Reply #464 on: February 07, 2010, 06:29:40 PM »

I did not see the Danes-Grandin flick because I will not pay the HBO ransom; but here's a link to Ms. Grandin speaking in person.
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/program/289706-1 

Ms. Grandin is quite intense, and Ms. Danes may just have been capturing the character that is definitely there (much as it pains me to cut Ms. Danes a break).
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