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Question: Do you favor or oppose the legalization of marijuana?
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josh
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« Reply #105 on: December 31, 2007, 09:45:44 PM »

About 3 weeks ago, Roberto expressed the opinion that alcohol is not addictive. He also noted that there is no cost to society in keeping drugs illegal. Roberto said he would do some research into what I'd said and discuss it with me in here, so I figured to get the ball rolling.


I was wondering what the folks in here think about it.

Is alcohol addictive? (Have any links that you would recommend?)

Is there a social cost to keeping drugs illegal? How would that be determined?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2007, 09:48:32 PM by josh » Logged

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playa
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« Reply #106 on: January 01, 2008, 02:24:42 PM »

If drugs and alcohol are a disease, is the only one that can bought and sold.

If alcohol and drugs are a disease, it's the only  disease  that provokes crime.

If alcohol and drugs are a disease, it's the only one without a germ or virus.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease, it's the only one that needs your consent.

I believe it's a spiritual problem that needs a catergory  to be understood.



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josh
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« Reply #107 on: January 01, 2008, 03:14:20 PM »

If drugs and alcohol are a disease, is the only one that can bought and sold.

If alcohol and drugs are a disease, it's the only  disease  that provokes crime.

If alcohol and drugs are a disease, it's the only one without a germ or virus.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease, it's the only one that needs your consent.

I believe it's a spiritual problem that needs a catergory  to be understood.

There are diseases that provoke crime and which require your consent to acquire, and certainly that don't require a germ or virus. This does not mean that you are mistaken about there being a spiritual component.

However, the piece that your description misses is that alcohol and drugs are not diseases.

Addiction is the disease.
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playa
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« Reply #108 on: January 01, 2008, 03:40:43 PM »

If drugs and alcohol are a disease, is the only one that can bought and sold.

If alcohol and drugs are a disease, it's the only  disease  that provokes crime.

If alcohol and drugs are a disease, it's the only one without a germ or virus.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease, it's the only one that needs your consent.

I believe it's a spiritual problem that needs a catergory  to be understood.

There are diseases that provoke crime and which require your consent to acquire, and certainly that don't require a germ or virus. This does not mean that you are mistaken about there being a spiritual component.

However, the piece that your description misses is that alcohol and drugs are not diseases.

Addiction is the disease.

My point was many called drugs and alcohol diseases because they don't have any idea on what catergory to put it in.

So to help patients understand, they refer alcohol and drugs as a disease.

I taught spirtuality classes and saw many come clean and stay clean after their 90 day stay.

Many came to realize it was a spiritual problem  that they had and not a disease.

Many were told they had this addiction disease and would always have it for life.
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weezo
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« Reply #109 on: January 01, 2008, 05:20:50 PM »

Out of sheer curiousity, what is the germ or virus that causes Bipolar Depression, a mental "disease" which can be mitigated by the correct cocktail of drugs?

Yes, I know that folks have maintained their were "spiritual" cures for depression and other mental illnesses, but I have never, ever, heard someone claim that schizophrenia was ever cured spiritually. Depression, like addiction, can go away on its own without obvious treatment, or can require contant treatments for lengthy periods of time.

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playa
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« Reply #110 on: January 01, 2008, 05:45:33 PM »

I beg to differ I have heard of many who have committed themself to God and those mental illnesses have deceased.

You would probaly call them miracles, but there are places where troubled people go and leave changed for life . http://www.freedomvillageusa.com/

listen to the program at (9:30 pm night mon-fri )http://wdcxfm.com/

Just click on listenlive at9:30 pm  tonight or every day morning at 6:15 am or 11:30 am.

PEACE

I'm talking schizophrenia, bipolar, people  that were on many meds that they took daily.

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« Reply #111 on: January 01, 2008, 08:30:07 PM »

Playa,

During my life, I have sometimes found myself too much "in the know" about the frauds perpetrated by religious "leaders". Just because some guy on tv says some number were "cured", does not mean it actually happened, and that the doctor treating them agree that the illness is completely cured. And, it would not mean that the illness was not in a natural "remission" and will pop up again in the future. And, I would not accept as evidence an illness that went away, and "came bacK when the person fell out of grace." That would just indicate a typical remission that is common in mental illnesses.





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josh
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« Reply #112 on: January 01, 2008, 09:01:30 PM »

Playa,

During my life, I have sometimes found myself too much "in the know" about the frauds perpetrated by religious "leaders". Just because some guy on tv says some number were "cured", does not mean it actually happened, and that the doctor treating them agree that the illness is completely cured. And, it would not mean that the illness was not in a natural "remission" and will pop up again in the future. And, I would not accept as evidence an illness that went away, and "came bacK when the person fell out of grace." That would just indicate a typical remission that is common in mental illnesses.

Conversely, while my sentiments echo yours on the fraud end, my examination of the placebo effect and other results of faith, even without the divine element, prevent me from simply assuming all such results are false. In particular, the morphine experiments in India were striking.

But Playa, in the process of making your point, I think you have made mine. Faith-based healing has taken place around substance abuse, but it has as surely been involved in healing for cancer, infection, and many many others. Given that, how then are you distinguishing addiction from these other diseases?
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« Reply #113 on: January 01, 2008, 09:20:02 PM »

Every schizo knows that a tinfoil hat is a good "kitchen remedy" for what ails ya.
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« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2008, 03:16:58 AM »

In general, does you think that "drugs" is "catching on"??
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« Reply #115 on: January 25, 2008, 05:27:52 PM »

In general, does you think that "drugs" is "catching on"??

Caught a ride with some Salvia the other day for the first time. Lawdy! Be careful, kiddies.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml
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« Reply #116 on: February 04, 2008, 05:37:02 AM »

Just stick with what works....








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MrUtley3
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« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2008, 07:56:13 PM »

About 3 weeks ago, Roberto expressed the opinion that alcohol is not addictive. He also noted that there is no cost to society in keeping drugs illegal. Roberto said he would do some research into what I'd said and discuss it with me in here, so I figured to get the ball rolling.


I was wondering what the folks in here think about it.

Is alcohol addictive? (Have any links that you would recommend?)

Is there a social cost to keeping drugs illegal? How would that be determined?


Wait. roberto said something and then failed to back it up with anything? How is this news??
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playa
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« Reply #118 on: February 11, 2008, 06:23:42 AM »

Out of sheer curiousity, what is the germ or virus that causes Bipolar Depression, a mental "disease" which can be mitigated by the correct cocktail of drugs?

Yes, I know that folks have maintained their were "spiritual" cures for depression and other mental illnesses, but I have never, ever, heard someone claim that schizophrenia was ever cured spiritually. Depression, like addiction, can go away on its own without obvious treatment, or can require contant treatments for lengthy periods of time.



If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only one contacted by an act of your will.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only disease that's habit forming.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only disease spread thru advertising.

My point was if you go to a rehab center this is what catergorythey put drugs and alcohol addiction in.'

I'm talking drugs and alcohol. Wink
« Last Edit: February 11, 2008, 06:26:59 AM by playa » Logged

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josh
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« Reply #119 on: February 11, 2008, 08:02:14 AM »

Out of sheer curiousity, what is the germ or virus that causes Bipolar Depression, a mental "disease" which can be mitigated by the correct cocktail of drugs?

Yes, I know that folks have maintained their were "spiritual" cures for depression and other mental illnesses, but I have never, ever, heard someone claim that schizophrenia was ever cured spiritually. Depression, like addiction, can go away on its own without obvious treatment, or can require contant treatments for lengthy periods of time.



If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only one contacted by an act of your will.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only disease that's habit forming.

If drugs and alcohol are a disease it's the only disease spread thru advertising.

My point was if you go to a rehab center this is what catergorythey put drugs and alcohol addiction in.'

I'm talking drugs and alcohol. Wink

You are redundant.

And, to reiterate, addiction is the disease.

And gambling can also be addictive, is also encouraged (but not spread) by advertising, and is also contracted by an act of one's will.

Sexually transmitted diseases are also encouraged by advertising and are contracted by an act of one's will.
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