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Question: As you look back on your elementary and high school education, is it your impression that children today get a better or worse education than you did?
Better
Worse

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weezo
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« Reply #795 on: June 20, 2008, 12:47:09 PM »

Josh, thank you for putting that sarcasm note at the bottom. I'm sure there will be plenty of folks who will blame the school and want to insist on more "Just say no" level instruction to beat it into their heads.

To me, this seems like part of the "herding" instinct of adolescence. Sorta like a pact that results in beating up someone else in front of a video camera.

Josh, I am curious how the school handled the need to continue schooling for these girls during their pregnancy and immediately afterwards. Locally, when the numbers are one or two a year, homebound teachers are provided. My experience in that role is that until the birth the girls will attend to their schooling, but once the baby arrives, schooling takes a serious backseat.

I wonder if the pact included any decisions how they would go on with their lives, or if it was based on hopes, wishes and dreams. Do any of your students know inside details on the pact? Or were they outside of it and as shocked as the rest of society?

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kidcarter8
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« Reply #796 on: June 20, 2008, 12:50:50 PM »

Hope no one is blaming the education system for those girls getting pregnant.

One assumes they have parents.

I have teen daughters, and neither one would consider the idea of getting pregnant at this time to be in their best interests.

They didn't learn that in school.

So girls born to GOOD parents never get pregnant?
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thecap0
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« Reply #797 on: June 20, 2008, 01:01:26 PM »

Hope no one is blaming the education system for those girls getting pregnant.

One assumes they have parents.

I have teen daughters, and neither one would consider the idea of getting pregnant at this time to be in their best interests.

They didn't learn that in school.

So girls born to GOOD parents never get pregnant?

So boys born to GOOD parents never gt girls pregnant?

I, for one, hope that every sperm donor in these cases is required to pay 18 or 21 years of child support, whichever the laws of MA provide for.
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weezo
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« Reply #798 on: June 20, 2008, 04:04:12 PM »

Cap,

I am probably naive, but am assuming that that is a given. It is possible that welfare could pay the girls for the years until the boys are educated enough to contribute to the child support at a decent level, and then collect from the boys/men when they are solvent. But, yes, just because the girls wanted to get pregnant is no excuse whatsoever to relieve the boys and men of their responsibilities. I wonder if the men in their twenties are college students who thought they were getting something free?

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josh
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« Reply #799 on: June 20, 2008, 04:24:09 PM »

1) Assuming that you are naive as a given seems unkind to yourself.

2) While demanding that the 'sperm donors' contribute to 18 years of child support is legally likely to happen, a lot of the fathers-to-be are 16 themselves and have nothing to contribute. The community itself is down at the heels to a large extent with relatively poor employment prospects, as I understand it - fishing industry.

3) Welfare has its limits.

4) I suspect as the stories come out, we may hear a pattern of deception designed not so much to ensnare potential partners, but to merely acquire exactly what Cap called them - sperm donors. Further, that most of the moms-to-be may have given no thought to the impact on their 'partners' of the pregnancy, up to and including proof of statutory rape in such cases.

5) At least the school has an in-school child care program that could allow the moms to continue high school - as earlier student-moms are doing, including at least one who tried to talk some of them out of it.

6) I doubt any of them older guys are college students, or if college students, then community college at most. This is based primarily on geography of that area, rather than any belief that college guys would be more clueful than that.
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weezo
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« Reply #800 on: June 20, 2008, 05:53:25 PM »

2) While demanding that the 'sperm donors' contribute to 18 years of child support is legally likely to happen, a lot of the fathers-to-be are 16 themselves and have nothing to contribute. The community itself is down at the heels to a large extent with relatively poor employment prospects, as I understand it - fishing industry.

3) Welfare has its limits.

I was basing the welfare supposition on what happened in my own case. While I was in college and my ex chose to work for minimum wage, I collected welfare, which was charged against him after I graduated and began to teach.  But, welfare may be set up differently in Massachusetts. It may be different now in Virginia. But, I would think that something would be done to allow the boys to finish their education before the had to take on the full responsibility of supporting these babies.

It would not surprise me to learn that the girls in the pact considered the boys "sperm donors". It sounds like adolescent thinking! <grin>  I remember making the decision that instead of becoming a doctor as I'd planned on for year, I wanted to get married and have children, and said, "I don't need a college degree to change diapers", never realizing that I may at some point have to support the children on my own, or that diaper changing was a short-term job followed by parenthood with more responsibilities.

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kidcarter8
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« Reply #801 on: June 20, 2008, 06:47:41 PM »

I wonder if the men in their twenties are college students who thought they were getting something free?



Are you talking about shoplifting the pooty?
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weezo
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« Reply #802 on: June 20, 2008, 07:07:44 PM »

I wonder if the men in their twenties are college students who thought they were getting something free?



Are you talking about shoplifting the pooty?

Whaaaaatttt Huh??
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #803 on: June 21, 2008, 11:36:26 AM »

Hope no one is blaming the education system for those girls getting pregnant.

One assumes they have parents.

I have teen daughters, and neither one would consider the idea of getting pregnant at this time to be in their best interests.

They didn't learn that in school.

So girls born to GOOD parents never get pregnant?

You'll find out when your own daughter comes of age, the numerous difficulties of navigating the stream of adolescent parenting, kid.

Bottom line, too many parents walk away from their kids at exactly the time the kids need them the most. They presume because they can do many things, that the kids know what they're doing. Which is the primary reason why so many kids are at risk for pregnancy, drugs and alcohol, suicide, etcetera...

Abdicating your personal responsibility and making it society's comes from a lack of good parenting--YES, it does!

Irresponsibility breeds irresponsibility. As a general rule.

Not a hard and fast rule, but certainly a general guideline.
 
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #804 on: June 21, 2008, 12:11:10 PM »

Yep.



























And you missed the point, which is...................................










GIRLS BORN TO GOOD PARENTING STILL GET PREGNANT, ALBEIT AT AN ARGUABLY LOWER RATE.






Cheers.
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #805 on: June 21, 2008, 02:42:47 PM »

Utley...I do wish you the best, but as your girls are still in their teens, you have a long ways to go.  Best not to say anything about your parenting skills until they hit at least 25.  There but for the grace of God go I, etc.

Although speaking as one who has done time at the front,  I will give you some advice that your daughters will absolutely hate.  Encourage them not to begin dating for as long as possible.  When they are interested in any boy, instead of allowing the daughters to go over the boy's house, with a possible lack of supervision, have the boy over to your home instead.  Eat dinner with them, sit and watch movies with them in your living room, play video games with them, sit in the next room while they do their homework, talk to the boy and let him get to know you as a person rather than as just the father of a daughter he wants to do.   The boys who think this is an outrage probably don't have good motive in the first place, and they will not bother with your daughters.  The ones who are willing to play by the rules probably have good intentions.  But you have to remember that even the "good ones" have grown up with sexually charged perceptions put forth by the likes of MTV.  No matter what you say, the culture that your daughters are growing up in is not the culture you grew up in.

And be prepared to listen to your daughters on how you don't trust them and how old-fashioned you are.  Far better to listen to this than to a squawling baby at 2 am, because even girls who understand that it is not in their best interests to get pregnant are human, and humans tend to make mistakes....some of which have more life-altering consequences than others.

The other thing to know, and you probably do being in education, is that girls who have good relationships with their fathers and who have solid goals tend to be more forward thinking than girls who just drift with the moment. 

I'd agree that daughters of good parents have a better chance at life in general.  But these days it seems that many parents have become confused about the nature of their roles.  They seem to want to view themselves as friends rather than as mothers or fathers. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 02:53:42 PM by Lhoffman » Logged
MrUtley3
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« Reply #806 on: June 22, 2008, 07:41:25 AM »

I'd agree that daughters of good parents have a better chance at life in general.  But these days it seems that many parents have become confused about the nature of their roles.  They seem to want to view themselves as friends rather than as mothers or fathers. 

I agree with you, especially on the last score.

Saw a tribute in a 5th grade yearbook the other day from a mother to her daughter: "BFF".


Made me spit out my coffee.
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #807 on: June 22, 2008, 07:45:06 AM »

Yep.



























And you missed the point, which is...................................










GIRLS BORN TO GOOD PARENTING STILL GET PREGNANT, ALBEIT AT AN ARGUABLY LOWER RATE.






Cheers.

Sorry, didn;t miss your "point".

Just didn't think it was so deep and meaningful...nor greatly added to the conversation.

Drink up.

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thecap0
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« Reply #808 on: June 22, 2008, 09:25:34 AM »

I'd agree that daughters of good parents have a better chance at life in general.  But these days it seems that many parents have become confused about the nature of their roles.  They seem to want to view themselves as friends rather than as mothers or fathers. 

I agree with you, especially on the last score.

Saw a tribute in a 5th grade yearbook the other day from a mother to her daughter: "BFF".


Made me spit out my coffee.


Agreed.

I have 5 kids, and I was never a "Friend" to any of them; I was their FATHER, which meant that many times it was necessary to tell them things they would rather not have heard.

They are now solidly engaged in their lives, families, and careers.

They and my grandchildren are the lights of my lives, and I'm pleased to say they are being PARENTS to each of the little critters.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #809 on: June 24, 2008, 10:48:38 AM »



I have 5 kids, and I was never a "Friend" to any of them;

Funny stuff.

I constantly call my son my best friend.  And I think he will be quite quite fine for it.
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