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Exiles of the New York Times
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Question: Who should be the next US President?
Bob Barr
John McCain
Ralph Nader
Barack Obama

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josh
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« Reply #10305 on: June 22, 2008, 02:30:06 AM »


Libertarianism is a by product of people disappointed with how far the current political parties have gotten from the Original Idea, as embodied by the Constitution.

That said, they can be as intransigent and loony as the farthest left moonbats, if given their rope.

More looney than neocons like you, Jake?  That's hard to believe.  Anyway, judging by the 397,265 votes Badnarik got last time around, I don't think there is anything to worry about in the Libertarians.  Although, he came pretty close to Nader's total of 465,650 votes.  Together they got 0.7% of the national vote.

I'm not too worried Dzimo.

I'm far more worried about the feather brained socialists with their own Presidential seals.

As an aside -- shall we go back to attacking each other?   Are you that lacking in intellectual rigor?

Pity.   But then, "mean Jake" is easier.  Wink

Well, no.

You shan't go back to attacking each other. I'm sorry I missed the earlier ad hominem.

But, Dzimas and Jake, both, talk about points. Be disparaging of presidential candidates, policies, proposals, posturing, and the pundits' prattle, but attacks on each other are out.
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« Reply #10306 on: June 22, 2008, 05:59:52 AM »


Here's your problem.  Medicare is broke, and getting broker.

On what do you base this assumption? How is it broke? How is it getting broker?
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Dzimas
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« Reply #10307 on: June 22, 2008, 07:39:27 AM »

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In the meantime, why would you believe it "bizarre" that the petroleum industry, which is, after all, focused on producing petroleum, would continue to be interested in that field?

For one thing, Jake, they consider themselves energy companies, not just oil companies,

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/products_services/solutions_for_businesses/energy_na/shell_energy_portal.html

but then I guess you are still a dinosaur when it comes to the changing face of energy these days.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 12:36:08 PM by Dzimas » Logged
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« Reply #10308 on: June 22, 2008, 07:47:32 AM »

Not for nothing, but I've made a lot of money these last few years investing in those energy companies.

And I don't regret it one bit. That money will go to help educate my children, who may find alternative energy sources or help create new ways to help our society progress.



 
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« Reply #10309 on: June 22, 2008, 10:59:26 AM »

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Are you that lacking in intellectual rigor?

Yes, you see, you just don't understand Diz. Our 'Lib' friends are not particularly interested in our current reality. With them it's as if Bush never really happened. Anyone who brings that up is some sort of 'fanatic'. They want to have some sort of half-assed debate with you about economic theory. How unregulated, unfettered capitalism can't be beat--when you're sitting in a classroom. The fact that we have just gone through almost eight years of  exactly that apparently doesn't count with them.  Meanwhile, the fact that our economy is swirling around the toilet bowl getting reading to take the plunge is just.....'inconvenient' to their arguments. The idea that someone might refer to our ruler as 'The Worst President Ever' is just hyperbole. In fact, if there was anything bad about our soon-to-be former rulers, in their estimation (I would guess), is that they were not severe enough in the pursuit of their policy ends.
But then again, there is an upside to 'debate' with a 'Lib' (if you consider having your arguments dismissed as 'poor logic' or 'not relative', to be debate). And that upside is is that you can always rest assured that nothing these so-called Libertarians purpose or aspire to will ever come to pass--at least in this country. As the Nut-ball Kings of the far right it would appear that their colossal individual egos would preclude them from actually organizing in any meaningful way (most probably why they secretly admire the long-gone Socialists, whom they profess to hate).
So it's year after year of trying to convince the hugh majority why it's a privilege to be ruled by the tiny minority...why any idea of decent health care is for you....just silly. Why that whole idea of a middle class was just a mistaken dream by that fever-ridden invalid, FDR....blah, blah, blah.
You might think that sooner or later they would move somewhere where their ideas might reach more 'fertile' ground (like Paraguay, for instance), instead of trying to get a population the size of the U.S. to follow them, but I guess they don't want to learn Spanish.
But maybe they will be going anyway. I see on the news a wave of arrests starting to spread out from this Bear Stearn thing (creeping socialism, no doubt, for some). I just call it justice.
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« Reply #10310 on: June 22, 2008, 12:17:08 PM »

Hmmm, I thought I left a post in regard to "intellectual rigor," but it seems to have disappeared.  Oh well, wasn't that important anyway.

I have to say I admire the utter lack of subtlety of Jake.  He hits you in the head with a ball-peen hammer each time he posts.   You hear guys like Pearle, Wolfowitz and even Bolton talk, they actually charm you with their subtlety of arguments, which I guess is why they are so popular among BBC guest speakers.  Jake doesn't bother with such erudition, which is refreshing, as it comes straight from the gut.  But, I have to say this latest literary twist is a nice touch.  Kind of leaves you wondering if he has more to say.
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« Reply #10311 on: June 22, 2008, 01:04:07 PM »

I always get the impression that the Libertarians want the government to be BY and FOR the corporations and business, and that they just don't care that they, themselves, will have to sacrifice their position in society to become just one of many PEASANTS in that regime. They evision themselves rising to stardome if only all the unpleasant common folks are suppressed without realizing that they, themselves, are just as common and just as likely to be supressed.

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« Reply #10312 on: June 22, 2008, 01:53:29 PM »

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doesn't bother with such erudition, which is refreshing, as it comes straight from the gut.

Every once in awhile one of them overcomes his 'inherent shyness' and will tell you what he really thinks. And that is that they, as a class, are the real rulers of America. They are the movers and shakers among our population. They own the businesses. They have the money. It is from them and through them that anything worthwhile in this country happens. It is because of their (obvious) intelligence and ideas that all of this occurs. We, as the worker (drone) class, should be happy to be allowed to gather up a few of the crumbs which fall (trickle down) from their plates. But we, damn it, are not happy with their obvious and generous largess. Like ants we try to swarm together (organize) in ways that are clearly in conflict with the Darwinian model. Some, by way of their obvious abilities and talents (and not by anything like inherited wealth or tilted rules or lack of conscience), are born to lead while others, well....they are allowed to go wait in the emergency room if there's really something wrong with them. What's wrong with that? In fact it's generous, no?
P.S.
Of course it is obvious that my feelings on this matter have been warped by envy, bitterness and jealousy, so there is no way that anything I say on the subject could be true. Just wanted to state the obvious before someone else we know does. Wink
« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 02:02:08 PM by Driver125 » Logged
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« Reply #10313 on: June 22, 2008, 11:47:14 PM »

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,1019,amis-delivers-fatwa-warning-to-obama,30119
(this, above, is the old Ed Luttwack spiel used at nytimes  in the last month which aggravated the public posters no end. They don't buy it. He published in a contribution to Opinion. Their blog should still be available.)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/i-despise-islamism-ian-mcewan-faces-backlash-over-press-interview-852030.html
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« Reply #10314 on: June 23, 2008, 12:34:08 AM »

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But, I have to say this latest literary twist is a nice touch.  Kind of leaves you wondering if he has more to say.

Oh, it is not that unusual to see conflicting or contradicting emotions peacefully co-existing in the same body. I believe it might have been Churchill who felt that it was so common among the Germans as to virtually constitute a national trait (in this case the combination of sentimentality and cruelty within the same persona). Hence quotes like "The Germans are always at your throat or at your knees". (Easy German-lovers: It was Winston who said it, not me!).
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Dzimas
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« Reply #10315 on: June 23, 2008, 01:41:11 AM »

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They are the movers and shakers among our population. They own the businesses. They have the money. It is from them and through them that anything worthwhile in this country happens.


Along these lines,

PHOENIX - John McCain hopes to solve the country's energy crisis with cold hard cash.

The Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting is proposing a $300 million government prize to whomever can develop an automobile battery that far surpasses existing technology.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080623/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_energy

Interesting that the sum is roughly equivalent to Cindy's total worth.  Is he offering Cindy as the prize? 

You have to wonder about a guy who doesn't take time to find out that such batteries already exist and the onus is on the car companies to produce cars along these lines,

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Of course, we all can't expect to drive a car as nice as a Tesla.  For us worker drones there is this "pimped" up Geo,

http://www.ecomodder.com/blog/2008/01/30/a-672-electric-car/

Now how hard could that be for GM to do?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 01:49:52 AM by Dzimas » Logged
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« Reply #10316 on: June 24, 2008, 07:16:56 AM »

You have to wonder where the $300 million is going to be coming from.

 
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« Reply #10317 on: June 24, 2008, 07:18:46 AM »

I mean there are rules for distributing government funds...You'd think a Senator would know that. Then again, McCain never bothers to show up for his day job, so maybe he isn't aware of the rules.
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« Reply #10318 on: June 24, 2008, 07:19:43 AM »

Out of your pocket, by dear Utley - out of YOUR pocket!
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Dzimas
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« Reply #10319 on: June 24, 2008, 10:42:57 AM »

I see Obama is starting to put some distance between himself and Johnny Mac.  RCP has him up 6.6% now,

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

So, Mackie tries to go for hot button energy issue without offering any viable alternatives.   Tossing candies to the masses and hoping that it translates into votes come November.  Mack is no man with a plan.  More stop-gap proposals for what is a seriously leaking economy and looming energy crisis that will make '73 look like a walk in the park.

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