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Question: Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation with Iraq?
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Author Topic: Iraq in Transition  (Read 3151 times)
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luee
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« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2007, 04:21:51 PM »

I never mentioned any other country. Just the one society that openly calls for "death to America", defies the UN by building nukes, and supports world terrorism. Not a blowing off the map, just a regime change. The entire area including Iraq would be stabilized by a different more modern, non-theocratic leadership. One that is more capable of accepting the realities and responsibilities of twenty-first century life.


http://globalpolitician.com/articledes.asp?ID=3023&cid=2&sid=4
Iran: It’s Time for a Progressive Revolution
Amil Imani - 7/2/2007
The thuggish revolution in Iran, better known as the Islamic Revolution of Iran, was anything but a progressive movement. This was a conscious assault on the 2500 year old Persian Empire and the progressive Iranian people in the twentieth century. This untimely revolution outrageously installed the most oppressive theocratic Islamic system known to the history of mankind.

(Amil Imani is an Iranian born, pro-democracy activist who resides in the United States of America. He is a poet, writer, literary translator, novelist and an essayist who has been writing and speaking out for the struggling people of his native land, Iran. Amil Imani's Home Page: www.amilimani.com. He also contributes to Family Security Matters, Islam Watch and American Thinker. )
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martinbeck3
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« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2007, 12:56:47 PM »

Here we can observe how Iraq is transitting specially in the subject of women being unsubjected and democratized

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czlVpKgOAmQ
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madupont
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« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2007, 03:03:36 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/07/04/london.alqaeda/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Militant: 'Those who cure you will kill you'
When I first looked at this title, I thought it was another one of those stories about "Hospital Infections" !
And, realized after reading it, had skipped over a UK firstPost yesterday referring to this subject. My guess is that for many decades, I have overlooked "the bad news" as some speculation about a problem still way off in the distance that I didn't have time to read about right now because I was too busy,exactly the way people are kept in the US, when the news was actually something nearly upon us that "We" were ignoring.
We think our leaders are taking care of it but they are ignoring as Bush did many times over because of an agenda not openly democratically discussed because that wouldn't be good for their(administration's ) private interests for whom we as citizens are something to be manipulated to their own ends.  While the media were hyping his war in the wrong place and the wrong time(just as his father had done before him,for the profit involved), the President's administration could have been bolstering Homeland Security --and diplomacy instead of the Yack machine of propoganda.  We have allowed our government to be stolen from us by private interests,  too busy to look after out interests as a society. History has been taught to us in such a way that we accept a "Paternalistic" template of  "conservative" government; and unfortunately, the other children who have accepted this for generations,perhaps centuries, from the British Empire and other empires both European and sometimes Asian before them in the historical past, have woken up to a nightmare in reality and are resisting dominion. While we are still asleep, at the wheel?
Story Highlights
Militant in Jordan told Anglican cleric: 'Those who cure you will kill you'

Warning now taken as reference to UK terror plot

Some of UK terror suspects recruited by al Qaeda in Iraq, sources say

Britain plots could be blueprint for attacks in U.S., official
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jbottle
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2007, 02:14:41 AM »

Enough combustion turns silicone to glass.  Sand, in a multicultural way is another way of saying "glass" to people who feel like acing where you live it you live on sand.  Nothing personal from South Carolina, we are sufficiently prepared.
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luee
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2007, 11:37:33 PM »

The doctors of death are on the go, with their strange mixture of science and voodoo. Schooled in all the essentials of the healing arts plus a love for the great sacrifice. Looking for the giant wounded snakes and howling dogs and at the end the paradise promised by their ayatollah. Into the pubs of merry old and the airport of the Scots with their pasteled Benzes and super jeep they go armed not with black bags but nails, petrol, explosives and some sort of incomprehendable timing device. 

No lifesize posters on Atta Blvd. or eternal prayers for these bunglers. No tripping the life fandango with houris. They were not trained here says the head of the lovers of martyrdom brigrade in Teheran. Must have been Jordan or Palestine, maybe Egypt or Pakistan.
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tjaxon
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2007, 08:47:46 PM »

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Actually the Saudi leadership has been one of the biggest supporters of the US in the Muslim mideast and have never proclaimed "death to America" or supported the use of suicidal death squads in a war against the infidels. OBL and his followers are considered outlaws and renegades in SA and have a price on their heads.

The Saudi leadership is a big supporter. They are also one of the most hated governments of all by their own citizens. A recent poll of Saudi men between the age of 25 and 41 showed that over 95% consider bin Laden's goal of punishing America for supporting Israel and building bases on holy land. Not all agree with his method, but share his vision.

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Iran is the only country that actively recruits "lovers of martyrdom", supports terrorism world wide, calls for "death to America" at every public gathering, and defies the UN on nuclear regulations.

It isn't the country you should fear, but elements within. For that matter, Hizbollah and Al Qaeda are much more guilty of that, and neither are based in Iran.

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I never mentioned [bombing] any other country. Just the one society that openly calls for "death to America", defies the UN by building nukes, and supports world terrorism. Not a blowing off the map, just a regime change. The entire area including Iraq would be stabilized by a different more modern, non-theocratic leadership. One that is more capable of accepting the realities and responsibilities of twenty-first century life.

Actually, you mentioned bombing Tehran. It isn't the society that calls for "death to America", defies the UN by building nukes, and supports world terrorism, it is a segment of the leadership, both political and religious. One might note that our ally Pakistan has nukes, supports and protects al Qaeda and other terrorist groups as well.

Come to think of it, don't we have nukes? Don't we support Israel? Why don't they qualify as terrorists? After over a thousand extraordinary renditions, some might think that Bush and Cheney qualify as well.

Were you aware that over one million Iranians held a candle light vigil after 9/11?
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luee
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2007, 08:39:46 AM »

It isn't the country you should fear, but elements within. For that matter, Hizbollah and Al Qaeda are much more guilty of that, and neither are based in Iran.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-middle_east_politics/iran_hizbollah_3772.jsp

Ali Khamenei the "death to America" guy. A religious cult controlling through fear of the unknown, with snakes  and satans behind every rock. Another supreme ruler crackpot ruling by divine right leading his followers down a path of Nihilist self-destruction. Ending the control would be a good thing for modern civilization and the good people of Iran.

(Currently, for a substantial number of the world's Shi'a population and particularly for Hizbollah, that person is the Iranian spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. He is known simply as Rahbar (in Farsi, "the leader" or "the one who shows the way"). Khamenei does not hold any official position, but he is the ultimate source of religious-political authority in Iran and by definition the one person that all Shi'a who believe in him as the jurisprudent must obey and follow. )

Could you kindly supply a reference to your most hated Saudi leadership, Al Qaeda ( From OBL hiding in his bunker crying for his children)?


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tjaxon
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« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2007, 06:50:20 PM »


Could you kindly supply a reference to your most hated Saudi leadership,


Gladly.

State of War by James Risen

Nemesis by Chalmers Johnson

Blowback by Chalmers Johnson (you may not agree with his politics, but his attribution of facts is excellent)

Imperial Hubris by Anonymous (after Michael Scheuer retired as an intelligence analyst for the CIA, it was revealed that he was the author

Those are the most recent, the ones still on my bookshelf. One could include  numerous articles by both current and ex-intelligence personnel, along with many conversations with people I met and/or knew from my 20 years at Halliburton who worked in the Middle East, including S.A., Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, and India.

I felt the same way as you after the Iranian hostage crisis. Meeting a man who the Shah had had imprisoned (on a whim) made me delve deeper into trying to understand the reasoning behind the assholes who would do such things. I still don't, but do understand this: The driving force behind the radicalization of Islam is not jerks like OBL, Khomeini, Kamenei, and Ahmadinejad, but the perception of the actions of the US in supporting dictators and repressive governments such as in Saudi Arabia, and our unconditional support for Israel, whether they are right or wrong. The US government, with the help of American corporations, is making a bad situation worse.
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luee
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« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2007, 02:30:47 AM »

(The Saudi leadership is a big supporter. They are also one of the most hated governments of all by their own citizens. A recent poll of Saudi men between the age of 25 and 41 showed that over 95% consider bin Laden's goal of punishing America for supporting Israel and building bases on holy land. Not all agree with his method, but share his vision.)

I do not understand the statistic. or the statement  Yes they do not like Israel. But that does not mean they hate their government. Seems like a bogus statement. Wonder how the poll was worded. This article says the Saudi leadership is tremendously popular at home. Al qaeda BS, who are those authors?


http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mamoun_fandy/2007/03/mamoun_fandy.html
The situation needs a fresh approach and maybe a new actor. This is where the Saudis enter. Riyadh does not have any of Egypt's inhibiting factors. In addition, it enjoys a surplus income of $70.7 billion dollars this year alone. It also has a new leadership that enjoys tremendous popularity at home. Because of this popularity, some Saudis believe that King Abdullah can take the Saudi system anywhere he wants on both external reform and foreign policy initiatives. King Abdullah could go down in history as the most popular king of Saudi Arabia, one Saudi told me. This aggressiveness and fresh blood is another advantage for Riyadh.
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tjaxon
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« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2007, 09:41:06 AM »

Al qaeda BS, who are those authors?

James Risen is a journalist who specializes in the CIA. Chalmers Johnson is a professor who is acknowledged as one of the foremost experts on Asian affairs, who has written several books detailing the consequences of American involvement in Eastern and Middle Eastern affairs.

Michael Sheuer is a recently retired CIA intelligence analyst who specialized in tracking Bin Laden and al Qaeda. He probably has a better grasp of al Qaeda, OBL, and Middle Eastern politics than any non-Islamic around.

Of the three, Risen is the one most dependent on anonymous sources, being a journalist. The other two can back up their facts, and justify their opinions. Any who read their works with an open mind will come away with a new view of politics and problems in the Middle East.
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luee
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« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2007, 05:53:57 AM »

Self guilt and paranoia sell books but OBL is not well liked in his home country. If they got a hold of him I am certain they would amputate a few of his limbs publicly before chopping off his head.

Do 'Wahhabis' Like Osama Bin Laden?
"So my advice to al-Masari, al-Faqih, Bin Laden, and all those who traverse their way is to leave alone this disastrous path, and to fear Allah and to beware of His vengeance and His anger, and to return to guidance and to repent to Allah for what has preceded from them…"

- Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz, Saudi Arabia
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tjaxon
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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2007, 09:13:54 AM »

Self guilt and paranoia sell books but OBL is not well liked in his home country. If they got a hold of him I am certain they would amputate a few of his limbs publicly before chopping off his head.

Do 'Wahhabis' Like Osama Bin Laden?
"So my advice to al-Masari, al-Faqih, Bin Laden, and all those who traverse their way is to leave alone this disastrous path, and to fear Allah and to beware of His vengeance and His anger, and to return to guidance and to repent to Allah for what has preceded from them…"

- Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Bin Baz, Saudi Arabia


Bin Baz was a supporter of the al Saud house, so it makes sense that he would not like bin Laden. (He also issued a statement declaring the earth is flat - most Saudis know better) Having died in 1999, I suspect he isn't a good judge of what most Saudis believe currently.

Not being liked by his own government is a source of strength for OBL, since the house of Saud is considered to be puppets of the Americans by many Islamists.

Just to make this clear, I am not defending OBL or what he has done. I just think you need to know your enemy, understand what their goals are. So much of what has been written in the Western media and is generally accepted as truth is at odds with what is believed in the Middle East. I also think the government has underestimated him, and in many ways played right into his plans, beginning with the invasion of Afghanistan.
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luee
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2007, 04:08:27 PM »

Afghanastan was a great victory. 9-11 was vindicated to a small degree and one terror command state was wiped off the map. I am certain OBL never expected to spend the remainder of his days hiding in a spider hole crying for his children. I suppose he expected a Jimmy Carter response or maybe a long drawn out replay of the soviet excursion. Iraq would have been a positive if after Saddam was overthrown the US did not dismantle the army and take up sides with the primitives against the Bathists. Blunder after blunder since.

Anyway a good way to despose of a lot of cold war materiel and try out the new stuff.
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tjaxon
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2007, 10:17:24 PM »

Afghanastan was a great victory. 9-11 was vindicated to a small degree and one terror command state was wiped off the map.

Dude, tell me you're kidding. We went in without securing the borders, allowing the majority of al Qaeda and the Taliban soldiers to cross into Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Iran. We took out their antiquated air force, which Cuba could have done just as easily, and took the capital. We installed a westernized puppet who is looked on with disdain by the majority of the population, and will be overthrown the day the US pulls out of Kabul. The tribal leaders who controlled the country still do, to the point that a $25 million dollar reward has had no effect in one of the poorest countries in the world. The population is even more conservative now than when we went in, and just biding their time until they can put the Taliban back in power, though it will probably be under another name. al Qaeda is stronger in Afghanistan now that it was then, as well.

That isn't a victory, my friend. We made the same exact mistakes the USSR (and Britain) made, and look what happened to them. When we blew the operation at Tora Bora, we lost what respect we had left from the Afghanis.
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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2007, 04:01:15 AM »

What, we should not have attacked them because they were so primitive? We should have made nice after 9-11? That is what warfare is about winning, destroying your enemy. They had no air force they should not have flown planes into the WTC. Warlords over Talliban and OBL any day.  What same mistake?  The US was attacked and fought back. Yes they hate us so much. The giant snake devil thing started by Khomeini. The US would love to have Omar and OBL marching back. We should withdraw just to let that happen.
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