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Author Topic: Religion and Politics  (Read 6992 times)
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2007, 05:36:42 PM »

MrUtley...Fallwell called himself a Christian, i.e. a Disciple of Christ.  In what way would you characterize his behavior as Christlike?

Like Christ, he was able to get a lot of people to follow him.

That's about the only way he was like Christ.  I think he was more of a self-serving slimeball.  We wonder how many people died because of his preaching hate and bigotry.

Wonder how many died thinking it was what Christ wanted??? Bet that number is far greater.

Falwell understood his flock.

You don't seem to be willing to concede that.
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Kam
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« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2007, 05:58:35 PM »

Interesting to me he was the son of an atheist.
I remember him pandering to his flock when he blamed 9/11 on the gays.
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samiinh
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2007, 06:29:15 PM »

Interesting to me he was the son of an atheist.
I remember him pandering to his flock when he blamed 9/11 on the gays.

He did years of pandering that put tons of money in his pockets.  He was an evil person with very bloody hands, IMHO.
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2007, 07:49:58 PM »

Interesting to me he was the son of an atheist.
I remember him pandering to his flock when he blamed 9/11 on the gays.

He did years of pandering that put tons of money in his pockets.  He was an evil person with very bloody hands, IMHO.

Pandering for money makes him evil??

Hope you put Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in that category, too.
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"That guy over there played with Ty Cobb," said Phillies bench coach Jimy Williams, pointing to Chase Utley. "He's been here before."  quoted in the Boston Globe
MrUtley3
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2007, 07:50:50 PM »

EXCUSE ME>>>>

REVERANDS Jackson and Sharpton.

Mea Culpa.
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"That guy over there played with Ty Cobb," said Phillies bench coach Jimy Williams, pointing to Chase Utley. "He's been here before."  quoted in the Boston Globe
Lhoffman
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2007, 07:52:53 PM »

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Falwell understood his flock.

You don't seem to be willing to concede that.

Christ may have understood his flock, but not in the manipulative way that Falwell did.  I've thought that people were first interested in the historical Christ because he spoke out against corruption in government and organized religion.  

Also, he was fairly anti-elitist.  He seemed to be comfortable when surrounded by the "lowest" elements of society (tax collectors, smelly fisherman), probably not too many from that crowd filling the pews in Va.   And I would assume he had a far better sense of humor than Falwell...look at the story of the Gadarene pigs....very ironic, very witty...and why would a bunch of nice Jewish farmers be raising pigs anyway?
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Lhoffman
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2007, 08:04:15 PM »

MrUtley...I'm not big on Sharpton and Jackson, either.  It's not that they are hypocrites.  It's that their humanity gets in the way of doing the things they know are right....a problem most humans face.  What I dislike about them is their blatant mixing of politics with religion. 
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2007, 08:07:48 PM »

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Falwell understood his flock.

You don't seem to be willing to concede that.

Christ may have understood his flock, but not in the manipulative way that Falwell did.  I've thought that people were first interested in the historical Christ because he spoke out against corruption in government and organized religion.  

Also, he was fairly anti-elitist.  He seemed to be comfortable when surrounded by the "lowest" elements of society (tax collectors, smelly fisherman), probably not too many from that crowd filling the pews in Va.   And I would assume he had a far better sense of humor than Falwell...look at the story of the Gadarene pigs....very ironic, very witty...and why would a bunch of nice Jewish farmers be raising pigs anyway?

I disagree. Passing yourself off as the son of God is a pretty blatant manipulation of a populace ripe for a Messiah.

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"That guy over there played with Ty Cobb," said Phillies bench coach Jimy Williams, pointing to Chase Utley. "He's been here before."  quoted in the Boston Globe
MrUtley3
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« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2007, 08:09:54 PM »

MrUtley...I'm not big on Sharpton and Jackson, either.  It's not that they are hypocrites.  It's that their humanity gets in the way of doing the things they know are right....a problem most humans face.  What I dislike about them is their blatant mixing of politics with religion. 

And this makes them different than Falwell or Pat Robertson, how?

All of these 'reverands" and Popes and what-have-you who wish to enter politics or comment politically, then hide behind the cloth, to me, are the worst kind of phoneys.

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"That guy over there played with Ty Cobb," said Phillies bench coach Jimy Williams, pointing to Chase Utley. "He's been here before."  quoted in the Boston Globe
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« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2007, 08:17:57 PM »

MrUtley...not different at all.  That's why I don't put much stock in organized religion.   If I ever find a church that follows the ideals in Micah (And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?),  then I'm there.  Otherwise, I worship on my own.

As far as Christ passing himself off as God's son, there are people who have believed in Christ as Saviour for 2000 years, and there are those who haven't.  It's not an argument I involve myself in.
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2007, 08:21:15 PM »

MrUtley...not different at all.  That's why I don't put much stock in organized religion.   If I ever find a church that follows the ideals in Micah (And what does the LORD require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God?),  then I'm there.  Otherwise, I worship on my own.

As far as Christ passing himself off as God's son, there are people who have believed in Christ as Saviour for 2000 years, and there are those who haven't.  It's not an argument I involve myself in.

Oh, it's not an argument. It's a fact.

The people running around telling you "The Way" to heaven is only through Christ have a lot of blood on their hands.

It's not stigmata, either.
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« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2007, 08:29:40 PM »

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The people running around telling you "The Way" to heaven is only through Christ have a lot of blood on their hands.

Inarguably true of some, but certainly not all. 

The topic of religion often brings out the very worst of people, I think for two reasons.  First, religious values are usually very deeply held.  Comments perceived to be negative often trigger a sort of fight or flight response.  Second, there are a lot of people who have been seriously wounded by the church.  When religious issues are brought up, old pain has a way of rising to the surface. 

You might be surprised to know that many believers share your negative perception of the church.
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« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2007, 08:55:25 PM »

All of these 'reverands" and Popes and what-have-you who wish to enter politics or comment politically, then hide behind the cloth, to me, are the worst kind of phoneys.


Is it possible for a religious leader not to be political?  Or are such self-described persons deluding themselves?

What about Dr. King?  What about Jim Wallis, the liberal Christian Evangelist who speaks of a "moral budget"?  They were/are involved in politics.

Re Falwell.  It would be nice if his passing also signified the passing of an era.  Maybe when looking back ...
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MrUtley3
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« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2007, 08:58:01 PM »

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The people running around telling you "The Way" to heaven is only through Christ have a lot of blood on their hands.

Inarguably true of some, but certainly not all. 

The topic of religion often brings out the very worst of people, I think for two reasons.  First, religious values are usually very deeply held.  Comments perceived to be negative often trigger a sort of fight or flight response.  Second, there are a lot of people who have been seriously wounded by the church.  When religious issues are brought up, old pain has a way of rising to the surface. 

You might be surprised to know that many believers share your negative perception of the church.

I'm not surprised about many believers sharing negative views of the Church.

And you're right, it's not "all" the people who have blood on their hands. Just most of the preachers. 
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"That guy over there played with Ty Cobb," said Phillies bench coach Jimy Williams, pointing to Chase Utley. "He's been here before."  quoted in the Boston Globe
MrUtley3
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« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2007, 09:00:28 PM »

All of these 'reverands" and Popes and what-have-you who wish to enter politics or comment politically, then hide behind the cloth, to me, are the worst kind of phoneys.


Is it possible for a religious leader not to be political?  Or are such self-described persons deluding themselves?

What about Dr. King?  What about Jim Wallis, the liberal Christian Evangelist who speaks of a "moral budget"?  They were/are involved in politics.

Re Falwell.  It would be nice if his passing also signified the passing of an era.  Maybe when looking back ...

I don't have a problem with religious people being political. I have a problem when their politics is foisting their religious views on the rest of the populace. That's theocracy, not democracy, IMO.

 
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"That guy over there played with Ty Cobb," said Phillies bench coach Jimy Williams, pointing to Chase Utley. "He's been here before."  quoted in the Boston Globe
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