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Poll

What do you expect on Wednesday?

Reports of protests are overblown. A few incidents around the country, but nothing major.
- 5 (45.5%)
A few major incidents in capitals, but nothing much in DC.
- 5 (45.5%)
A major incident in DC, but nothing much around the country.
- 0 (0%)
More than 10 capitals have major upheavals, but nothing much in DC.
- 0 (0%)
A major incident in DC plus more than 10 capitals with significant upheavals.
- 1 (9.1%)
More than half the capitals around the country have problems with protesters, but DC is quiet.
- 0 (0%)
DC has major problems, while more than half the capitals around the country also have considerable trouble with protesters.
- 0 (0%)
Huge disruption to the day.
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Voting closed: January 19, 2021, 10:49:21 PM


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Author Topic: Trump Administration  (Read 1617537 times)

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52770 on: October 08, 2020, 12:57:56 PM »

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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52771 on: October 08, 2020, 12:59:12 PM »

They aren't big on civil liberties

But the people who are fighting the restrictions that are intended to keep everyone safe sure are. 

Which is why they plotted to kidnap Governor Whitmer.  Civil Liberties!

A plot egged on by Trump (Free Michigan!) and one that I bet you and Trump on some level will defend as justified.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52772 on: October 08, 2020, 01:02:41 PM »

Quote
President Trump's campaign manager issued a new statement today announcing they agree to a suggestion by Joe Biden's campaign to delay the second debate by a week so it can be in person.

"The [Commission on Presidential Debates] and the media cannot hide Joe Biden forever. Americans deserve to hear directly from both presidential candidates on these dates, October 22 and 29," Bill Stepien said in a statement.

Pretty wry that they are accusing folks of trying to hide Biden, when it is his suggestion they are agreeing to.

But business as usual for the Liar-in-Chief and his henchman.

Truth is that Biden is as well served by the delay as not. He doesn't need any help from it while avoiding any losses from one.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52773 on: October 08, 2020, 01:04:10 PM »

America has a disturbing large number of ignorant toddlers who have never understood conditional freedom.

Is it a lack of understanding, or is it that they see "Civil Liberties!" as a bludgeon against their political opponents, much like they see the "Constitution!"

Because those very same people have no issues restricting the freedom of others to do what they please when it suits them.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

NeedsAdjustments

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52774 on: October 08, 2020, 01:09:28 PM »

"The [Commission on Presidential Debates] and the media cannot hide Joe Biden forever. Americans deserve to hear directly from both presidential candidates on these dates, October 22 and 29," Bill Stepien said in a statement.

These people are too-fucking-much.

Biden is doing Trump a huge favor giving him a platform he can (try to) use to change political momentum that obviously already heavily favors Biden, when Joe could have just insisted on a remote format that doesn't suit Trump's "debate" style.  And, btw, is risking his own health to do it.

So their response is to turn around and lie about the issue in order to insult...

Just assholes.
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"When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."  -  The impeached "president" on Feb 27, 2020

josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52775 on: October 08, 2020, 01:14:15 PM »

https://knightfoundation.org/articles/four-in-five-americans-concerned-misinformation-will-influence-election/

69% of Americans believe that Donald Trump is spreading a great deal (58%) or a fair amount (11%) of false information. They don't mean "fair" as opposed to "unfair," but as in more than "a little," but less than "a great deal."

And even GOP members are ostensibly opposed to that happening - but it's why it's only 69%, as a ton of GOP folks are in denial, even when Trump says "I downplayed the coronavirus" and "I didn't downplay the coronavirus," insisting neither of those was a lie.
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52776 on: October 08, 2020, 01:19:21 PM »

In a real political forum,  where you have honest discussion of issues rather than just defusing shitbombs lobbed in by hyperpartisan trolls,  I could see this being a good time to talk about how freedom is defined,  and how the Social Contract affects absolute freedom.   Only a solitary Hunter-gatherer can do whatever they want... and they pay the price of no constraints in terms of danger,  possible starvation,  loneliness,  and having life stripped down to bare survival mode.   The rest of us face constraints,  for the sake of the community good and buffers against danger.   America has a disturbing large number of ignorant toddlers who have never understood conditional freedom.

No reason we can't have that discussion, Barton.

One of the fairly regular arguments is that society increases some freedoms, while restricting others, rather than solely restricting them - or at least that it has the potential to do that.

There are three primary constraints on the hunter/gatherer as I was taught it: environment, health, and other people. The first two align with your danger/starvation. The third one is not about loneliness, but competition for those scarce resources.

OTOH, we have sufficient evidence of barter for better tools for those hunter/gatherers to suggest that the "constraints" of society go back a ton further than anything that resembles most of today's world.

Yes,  thanks for your optimism,  Josh.   You are right about constraints going way back -- I actually had to imagine an outcast H-G in order to picture less constraint.   But,  yes,  most of them (as I understand anthropology lit)  had fairly strict social rules that kept the band together, fostered shared beliefs and rituals,  and allowed some leisure time.   I recall reading a study of HG in remote areas that found that they actually had more leisure time,  with as little as 20 hours per week devoted to subsistence activities.   

To have a complex high tech society where we can,  for example, sit in a chair up in the sky and go from Seattle to Boston in a few hours,  or access millennia of accumulated human knowledge from a small rectangle in our hand,  we make many tradeoffs.

The Whitmer plot sounds like raw material for a Coen Brothers script.   
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bambu.

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Re: Important fundamental rights
« Reply #52777 on: October 08, 2020, 01:20:17 PM »

The freedom to get sick and die.
The liberty to infect others.

Important fundamental rights ...

So many Americans say.
And not only Americans.
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Go woke, go broke.

josh

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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

barton

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52779 on: October 08, 2020, 01:21:05 PM »

America has a disturbing large number of ignorant toddlers who have never understood conditional freedom.

Is it a lack of understanding, or is it that they see "Civil Liberties!" as a bludgeon against their political opponents, much like they see the "Constitution!"

Because those very same people have no issues restricting the freedom of others to do what they please when it suits them.

Room for both, I'd say.   There are conniving partisans and gullible rubes,  both.   
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barton

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Re: Important fundamental rights
« Reply #52780 on: October 08, 2020, 01:29:15 PM »

The freedom to get sick and die.
The liberty to infect others.

Important fundamental rights ...

So many Americans say.
And not only Americans.

It's a basic confusing of the right to take personal risks (which I defend)  and the right to risk the lives or longterm health of others. (which I don't).    What we're seeing is akin to inexperienced hikers who irresponsibly climb something unprepared and insufficiently skilled and then require a rescue that endangers the rescue team.   
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josh

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52781 on: October 08, 2020, 01:46:58 PM »

Quote
The Trump campaign agreed with the Biden campaign that an in-person town hall could be held Oct. 22 instead. The Trump campaign also proposed pushing back a debate already scheduled that day until Oct. 29.

In a statement, Biden spokeswoman Kate Bedingfield flatly rejected the latter idea.

“Donald Trump doesn’t make the debate schedule; the Debate Commission does,” she said. “We accepted the three dates — Sept. 29, Oct. 15, and Oct. 22 — in June. Trump chose today to pull out of the October 15th debate. Trump’s erratic behavior does not allow him to rewrite the calendar, and pick new dates of his choosing.”

“We look forward to participating in the final debate, scheduled for October 22, which already is tied for the latest debate date in 40 years,” Bedingfield said. “Donald Trump can show up, or he can decline again. That’s his choice.”
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The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury." ~Lindsey Graham

kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52782 on: October 08, 2020, 01:47:20 PM »

Obviously NBA Commissioner Adam Silver has been pouring over the sad TV ratings for its  Championship series:
We’re completely committed to standing for social justice and racial equality and that’s been the case going back decades. It’s part of the DNA of this league. How it gets manifested is something we’re gonna have to sit down with the players and discuss for next season. I would say, in terms of the messages you see on the court and our jerseys, this was an extraordinary moment in time when we began these discussions with the players and what we all lived through this summer. My sense is there’ll be somewhat a return to normalcy, that those messages will largely be left to be delivered off the floor.

And I understand those people who are saying ‘I’m on your side, but I want to watch a basketball game.’


Which puts him ahead of you and Kid, since neither of you are on the same side as Silver.

I dont care about the NBA ratings or the messaging
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52783 on: October 08, 2020, 01:53:39 PM »

Harvard/Harris is roughly monthly, so you may have a bit of a wait. Not sure what Monmouth's plan is. IBD says you have to wait until Monday.



not much

These three will be telling.  As will next Ras poll - seeing if it changes trend.

Clock ticking, surely.  Trump campaign insists polling is unimportant but there is some level of "Iwanttobewiththewinnersism" - where appearance that Biden will win forces a vote or thousand that way.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Trump Administration
« Reply #52784 on: October 08, 2020, 01:55:48 PM »

By the way - Rasmussen ha Senator Harris ahead 50-45 per cent pre-debate, with the question being - "if something happened to the other candidates and the election was today - Pence vs Harris, who would you choose?"
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