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[Espnthree]

Everyone is morally responsible for their own acts. Tony is normally anodyne at best if not outright stupidly naive, especially when it comes to white Christians, Celebrities and the people of Battle Mountain, but sometimes the anodyne escapes people. Hamas and only Hamas, is responsible for its unspeakable acts of last Sunday, regardless of provocation. Israel, and only Israel, is responsible for any of its acts in pursuit of a justified military reaponse that violate international law.

You somehow combine cheap insults about Tony with a total misreading of the laws of war.
Israel is totally justified in wiping out Hamas. If Israel does not attack, Hamas will keep attacking
If you are naive about this remember Israel is not required  to stop  protecting its own citizens in order to spare Palestinian children.
As to the totality of the conflict there will never be Peace in the  Mid East until the jihadists are annihilated.
There is no law of war that makes victory a crime

And you willfully misread my posts, which has nothing to do with a war against Hamas but rather the treatment of Palestinian civilians and potential war crimes against them.

I didn

"I mean, how long does it take to check your own work?"

My error.
I did not misread anything
Hamas put its own citizens into military targets,such as schools, etc.
Israel cannot be held responsible if citizens die when military targets are destroyed.

Nice dodge. That is both correct and not a response to the point I was making.

Andrew McCarthy in National Review

in times of War courtroom proof that a target is a strategic enemy asset is not required before attacking. Again, targeting is a judgment call made by military professionals based on experience and battlefield intelligence. The United States armed forces do not conduct a trial or seek a judicial warrant based on probable cause before striking terrorist havens in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Yemen. Why, as Iraq War vet David French pointedly asks, would we expect Israel while fighting an existential defensive war against terrorists who repeatedly attack its territory  to abide by self-defense restrictions we would not tolerate for ourselves?

Again, also correct and not a response to the point i was making. But you never really care about honestly responding to anyone else's point.

Then you had no point.
It is part of your consistent MO

But you never really care about honestly responding to anyone else's point. You just pretend there was not one. It is the only card in your hand.

But then you should revisit the discussion.
If you maintain Israel is morally responsible for its actions that is not a point in dispute.
Collateral damage when destroying military targets in war is not a War crime.
This is the point you refuse to acknowledge, as do nearly all Palestinian sympathizers.
American, Israeli, and other Western military forces do not wage war by targeting and terrorizing civilians, including raping women, murdering the defenseless, or taking hostages and using them as human shields.

[Oiled]

Sure, Israel is only fighting Hamas soldiers.  And they honor the Geneva Convention!

BBC, today:

Hundreds of people have been killed in an Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza, according to Palestinian officials; the Israeli military says it's investigating the incident.

[Hairy Lime]

Everyone is morally responsible for their own acts. Tony is normally anodyne at best if not outright stupidly naive, especially when it comes to white Christians, Celebrities and the people of Battle Mountain, but sometimes the anodyne escapes people. Hamas and only Hamas, is responsible for its unspeakable acts of last Sunday, regardless of provocation. Israel, and only Israel, is responsible for any of its acts in pursuit of a justified military reaponse that violate international law.

You somehow combine cheap insults about Tony with a total misreading of the laws of war.
Israel is totally justified in wiping out Hamas. If Israel does not attack, Hamas will keep attacking
If you are naive about this remember Israel is not required  to stop  protecting its own citizens in order to spare Palestinian children.
As to the totality of the conflict there will never be Peace in the  Mid East until the jihadists are annihilated.
There is no law of war that makes victory a crime

And you willfully misread my posts, which has nothing to do with a war against Hamas but rather the treatment of Palestinian civilians and potential war crimes against them.

I didn

"I mean, how long does it take to check your own work?"

My error.
I did not misread anything
Hamas put its own citizens into military targets,such as schools, etc.
Israel cannot be held responsible if citizens die when military targets are destroyed.

Nice dodge. That is both correct and not a response to the point I was making.

Andrew McCarthy in National Review

in times of War courtroom proof that a target is a strategic enemy asset is not required before attacking. Again, targeting is a judgment call made by military professionals based on experience and battlefield intelligence. The United States armed forces do not conduct a trial or seek a judicial warrant based on probable cause before striking terrorist havens in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Yemen. Why, as Iraq War vet David French pointedly asks, would we expect Israel while fighting an existential defensive war against terrorists who repeatedly attack its territory  to abide by self-defense restrictions we would not tolerate for ourselves?

Again, also correct and not a response to the point i was making. But you never really care about honestly responding to anyone else's point.

Then you had no point.
It is part of your consistent MO

But you never really care about honestly responding to anyone else's point. You just pretend there was not one. It is the only card in your hand.

But then you should revisit the discussion.
If you maintain Israel is morally responsible for its actions that is not a point in dispute.

You need to review bambu's comments. And your own, then. Because you have both disputed that.

Collateral damage when destroying military targets in war is not a War crime.
This is the point you refuse to acknowledge,

It is in fact a point i have always acknowledged.

as do nearly all Palestinian sympathizers.
American, Israeli, and other Western military forces do not wage war by targeting and terrorizing civilians, including raping women, murdering the defenseless, or taking hostages and using them as human shields.

Unfortunately, sometimes they do.

[facilitatorn]

Sure, Israel is only fighting Hamas soldiers.  And they honor the Geneva Convention!

BBC, today:

Hundreds of people have been killed in an Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza, according to Palestinian officials; the Israeli military says it's investigating the incident.

Red got his first and last ever hardon watching frothy Fox coverage of the post 9-11 misinvasion of Iraq.

The mindset, whether stroke induced or stroke inducing, has stuck with him ever since.

[bambu.]

Sure, Israel is only fighting Hamas soldiers.  And they honor the Geneva Convention!

BBC, today:

Hundreds of people have been killed in an Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza, according to Palestinian officials; the Israeli military says it's investigating the incident.

Maybe rockets were being fired from the hospital or next door, near it.

[facilitatorn]

Maybe it was Maybelline.

[Hairy Lime]

Sure, Israel is only fighting Hamas soldiers.  And they honor the Geneva Convention!

BBC, today:

Hundreds of people have been killed in an Israeli strike on a hospital in Gaza, according to Palestinian officials; the Israeli military says it's investigating the incident.

Maybe rockets were being fired from the hospital or next door, near it.

Maybe they fucked up.

[facilitatorn]

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/10/17/2199998/-Pro-democracy-parties-oust-Poland-s-hard-right-government-in-historic-victory?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web

[Oiled]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/israel-gaza-mass-evacuation-ethnic-cleansing

Human rights expert Kenneth Roth comments on what motivates the present Israeli government. 

[Espnthree]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/israel-gaza-mass-evacuation-ethnic-cleansing

Human rights expert Kenneth Roth comments on what motivates the present Israeli government.

What credibility does Kenneth Roth, an avowed hater of Israel, have?

[bambu.]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/israel-gaza-mass-evacuation-ethnic-cleansing

Human rights expert Kenneth Roth comments on what motivates the present Israeli government.

How else is Israel going to clean out from Gaza all the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas militants who invaded Israel and committed all the atrocities...and are still firing rockets into Israel?
And find and destroy all the Hamas rockets/weapons to stop them from attacking Israel?
Find all the tunnels.

Israel denies bombing the hospital, says it was a failed rocket launch by Hamas/PIJ.

[Espnthree]

Everyone is morally responsible for their own acts. Tony is normally anodyne at best if not outright stupidly naive, especially when it comes to white Christians, Celebrities and the people of Battle Mountain, but sometimes the anodyne escapes people. Hamas and only Hamas, is responsible for its unspeakable acts of last Sunday, regardless of provocation. Israel, and only Israel, is responsible for any of its acts in pursuit of a justified military reaponse that violate international law.

You somehow combine cheap insults about Tony with a total misreading of the laws of war.
Israel is totally justified in wiping out Hamas. If Israel does not attack, Hamas will keep attacking
If you are naive about this remember Israel is not required  to stop  protecting its own citizens in order to spare Palestinian children.
As to the totality of the conflict there will never be Peace in the  Mid East until the jihadists are annihilated.
There is no law of war that makes victory a crime

And you willfully misread my posts, which has nothing to do with a war against Hamas but rather the treatment of Palestinian civilians and potential war crimes against them.

I didn

"I mean, how long does it take to check your own work?"

My error.
I did not misread anything
Hamas put its own citizens into military targets,such as schools, etc.
Israel cannot be held responsible if citizens die when military targets are destroyed.

Nice dodge. That is both correct and not a response to the point I was making.

Andrew McCarthy in National Review

in times of War courtroom proof that a target is a strategic enemy asset is not required before attacking. Again, targeting is a judgment call made by military professionals based on experience and battlefield intelligence. The United States armed forces do not conduct a trial or seek a judicial warrant based on probable cause before striking terrorist havens in Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Yemen. Why, as Iraq War vet David French pointedly asks, would we expect Israel while fighting an existential defensive war against terrorists who repeatedly attack its territory  to abide by self-defense restrictions we would not tolerate for ourselves?

Again, also correct and not a response to the point i was making. But you never really care about honestly responding to anyone else's point.

Then you had no point.
It is part of your consistent MO

But you never really care about honestly responding to anyone else's point. You just pretend there was not one. It is the only card in your hand.

But then you should revisit the discussion.
If you maintain Israel is morally responsible for its actions that is not a point in dispute.

You need to review bambu's comments. And your own, then. Because you have both disputed that.

Collateral damage when destroying military targets in war is not a War crime.
This is the point you refuse to acknowledge,

It is in fact a point i have always acknowledged.

as do nearly all Palestinian sympathizers.
American, Israeli, and other Western military forces do not wage war by targeting and terrorizing civilians, including raping women, murdering the defenseless, or taking hostages and using them as human shields.

Unfortunately, sometimes they do.

Sometimes?
Name them

[FlyingVProd]

Blessed are the peacemakers, we must fully fund the Peace Corps and we must always work for peace in the world.

Certainly I approve of improving human rights, as was the case when Poland obtained freedom from the USSR, but it must be done peacefully as was the case with Poland and Lech Walesa.

We can improve China peacefully with healthy evolution, and we can improve Iran peacefully.

40% of the children in public schools in Beverly Hills are from Iran, we need for them to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America every morning and we need for them to understand what our pledge means. We also need to teach them all of the good things that America has done for the world, with good human rights, and worker's rights, and inventions, and a huge middle class, and we stopped Hitler, etc. We need to teach the people from Iran about the good things that the USA has done, they have heard all of the bad things and now is our chance to teach them the good things about America. We have them here now, so now is our chance to teach them about the beauty of America and about the good things that we stand for.

God gave me the daughter of a Chinese general as a roommate and we made peace. Now we have the Persians coming to California in droves and now is our chance to teach them about the beauty of America and to make the peace.

Blessed are the peacemakers, and we must always invest in peace.

Salute,

Tony V.

[FlyingVProd]

What if the Palestinians wanted to move to Illinois? What if 1 million Palestinians moved to Illinois?

We have almost 1 million Persians in Los Angeles.

We need to teach people the ways of peace.

For me, I have Jesus as my savior, and I am a crusader, and when the Persians come to Hollywood then they are on my Turf. We need to teach them to love America the way that my Mother loves America.

Blessed are the peacemakers, and we can bring the Palestinians right to the doorstep of Americans, what happens if the Palestinians all want to move to Illinois?

Salute,

Tony V.

[bambu.]

Experts in my world said today that with the US stretched by the wars in Israel and Ukraine, China will strike in Asia Pacific in 5 or 6 weeks time, first attacking Taiwan, then other countries.
Oh well, it was always going to happen...not like there was't any warning.
It's good that I have been able to enjoy living down here for the nearly 8 decades I have.
Sad it will be ending with a war.