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4 (33.3%)

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0 (0%)

Not really

1 (8.3%)

Not in the slightest

1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Voting closed: February 15, 2022, 10:51:36 AM

[facilitatorn]

What did the guy who sold bad steaks and fake education to anyone with more money than sense do with something actually valuable like boxes of national secrets in his possession? Trump is a natural if incredibly sleazy salesman. You can say he is pathological about it.

On the insurrection track, who flips harder, Rudy or Lindsey?

[facilitatorn]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/15/los-angeles-district-attorney-george-gascon-recall

Nope.

Reform the police.

Keep marching.

[josh]

Josh. You do understand that everything in the Warrant are items generated by the Trump Presidency and therefore, BY LAW, property of the
U S Government?
Once you acknowledge that we can move on to more relevant questions.

You seem to have a difficult time grasping either how court cases work or the meaning of "classified" when applied to documents.

The term classified is irrelevant.So are you

1) You have no idea whether all of the documents were generated by the Trump admin or not. They may include material generated during one or more prior administrations.

Well neither the National Archives nr the DOJ agree with uou.

2) The materials belong to the federal government, but are not necessarily available to be seen by the public. Indeed, that lies at the crux of the dispute, don't you think?!

in a word , NO

3) As soon as they were seized by the FBI as part of a case, the specific materials are theirs and the court's to control until the court or a higher court rules otherwise. Is that not your understanding, as well?

Of course not. fBI was only retrieving government  property.

Whether Trump administration or Obama's or whoever's, control of the items rests with the judge.

No, it is a matter of law.

a) Classified is very much at issue, though not the only thing at issue. Or, as you put it, the National Archives and the DoJ disagree with you.

b) You have no basis for your opinion. You either are taking somebody else's word for it, guessing, or only focusing on paragraph c of Attachment B of the Warrant:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

b.. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20.2017, and January 20, 2021; or

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.

(a) and (b) could contain material from any administration. (c) is the only one explicitly about Trump's administration. Note that (a) and (b) also specify classified documents/materials, contrary to your claim.

I see you admit to not thinking. You seem to be disputing that the availability for the public to see these is at question. You sure are an odd duck.

You claim that control of these materials is a matter of law. Oddly enough you, Trump's attorney's, and the DoJ all agree on that. However, the DoJ disagrees with you and with Trump's attorneys. That puts it in the judge's court - which is what I said.

And sure, the FBI was retrieving government property which President Trump was illegally keeping. It's still the court's to control, no matter how often you argue the point.

[kidcarter8]

This says Trump,is not getting the affidavit and also Trump is fucked.


https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.59.0_4.pdf

Lets go!!

[kidcarter8]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/15/los-angeles-district-attorney-george-gascon-recall

Nope.

Reform the police.

Keep marching.

It's a VICTORY that he gets to keep his job in the middle of his first term.

Low bar indeed.

[Holly Martins]

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/07/25/farewell-global-liberal-cannibalistic-pedophile-conspiracy

[Hairy Lime]

Josh. You do understand that everything in the Warrant are items generated by the Trump Presidency and therefore, BY LAW, property of the
U S Government?
Once you acknowledge that we can move on to more relevant questions.

You seem to have a difficult time grasping either how court cases work or the meaning of "classified" when applied to documents.

The term classified is irrelevant.So are you

1) You have no idea whether all of the documents were generated by the Trump admin or not. They may include material generated during one or more prior administrations.

Well neither the National Archives nr the DOJ agree with uou.

2) The materials belong to the federal government, but are not necessarily available to be seen by the public. Indeed, that lies at the crux of the dispute, don't you think?!

in a word , NO

3) As soon as they were seized by the FBI as part of a case, the specific materials are theirs and the court's to control until the court or a higher court rules otherwise. Is that not your understanding, as well?

Of course not. fBI was only retrieving government  property.

Whether Trump administration or Obama's or whoever's, control of the items rests with the judge.

No, it is a matter of law.

a) Classified is very much at issue, though not the only thing at issue. Or, as you put it, the National Archives and the DoJ disagree with you.

b) You have no basis for your opinion. You either are taking somebody else's word for it, guessing, or only focusing on paragraph c of Attachment B of the Warrant:

a. Any physical documents with classification markings, along with any containers/boxes (including any other contents) in which such documents are located, as well as any other containers/boxes that are collectively stored or found together with the aforementioned documents and containers/boxes;

b.. Information, including communications in any form, regarding the retrieval, storage, or transmission of national defense information or classified material;

c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January 20.2017, and January 20, 2021; or

d. Any evidence of the knowing alteration, destruction, or concealment of any government and/or Presidential Records, or of any documents with classification markings.

(a) and (b) could contain material from any administration. (c) is the only one explicitly about Trump's administration. Note that (a) and (b) also specify classified documents/materials, contrary to your claim.

I see you admit to not thinking. You seem to be disputing that the availability for the public to see these is at question. You sure are an odd duck.

You claim that control of these materials is a matter of law. Oddly enough you, Trump's attorney's, and the DoJ all agree on that. However, the DoJ disagrees with you and with Trump's attorneys. That puts it in the judge's court - which is what I said.

And sure, the FBI was retrieving government property which President Trump was illegally keeping. It's still the court's to control, no matter how often you argue the point.

I think we are burying the lede here. RedDickJimmEspn is admitting that Trump was in possession of documents that belonged to the US government and that he held on to those for months after being notified to return the documents, and months after, through his attorneys, telling the Feds he did not have them. So RedDickJimmEspn is admitting at last that the warrant to take government property wrongfully held by Trump was justified.

[kidcarter8]

I think we are burying the lede here. RedDickJimmEspn is admitting that Trump was in possession of documents that belonged to the US government and that he held on to those for months after being notified to return the documents, and months after, through his attorneys, telling the Feds he did not have them.

 

Yeah - total mystery, that.  What was he thinking?

[LarryBnDC]

This says Trump,is not getting the affidavit and also Trump is fucked.


https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.59.0_4.pdf

Lets go!!

To trial!

[Hairy Lime]

I think we are burying the lede here. RedDickJimmEspn is admitting that Trump was in possession of documents that belonged to the US government and that he held on to those for months after being notified to return the documents, and months after, through his attorneys, telling the Feds he did not have them.

 

Yeah - total mystery, that.  What was he thinking?

If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is these two things. First, that you can kill anyone, and second DO NOT LIE TO THE FBI. They do not take it well.

[josh]

Well. three items that were seized have been returned to Trump:

Two expired passports and one active passport.

Of course, passports belong to the government, too.

[Hairy Lime]

Well. three items that were seized have been returned to Trump:

Two expired passports and one active passport.

Of course, passports belong to the government, too.

Note that Donald Trump complained about the FBI "stealing" his passports AFTER the FBI notified him it was returning them.

[kidcarter8]

This says Trump,is not getting the affidavit and also Trump is fucked.


https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854/gov.uscourts.flsd.617854.59.0_4.pdf

Lets go!!

To trial!

Alright!  Let's  do this!

[kidcarter8]

Well. three items that were seized have been returned to Trump:

Two expired passports and one active passport.

 

Cool.  What next?

 

[josh]

Well. three items that were seized have been returned to Trump:

Two expired passports and one active passport.

 

Cool.  What next?

Hearing on Thursday about the request t\o have the affidavit unsealed.

I recommend against holding your breath for it or betting the farm.