Escape from Elba

Sports => Basketball => Topic started by: Admin on April 15, 2007, 09:34:51 PM



Title: Knicks
Post by: Admin on April 15, 2007, 09:34:51 PM
Discuss the Knicks chances this year.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 21, 2007, 05:07:12 PM
Just checking in. I couldn't post before.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 22, 2007, 01:53:09 PM
Discuss the Knicks chances this year.

The Knicks have no chance this year.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 22, 2007, 02:11:12 PM
where is everybody


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 22, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
where is everybody

At KnicksMecca


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 22, 2007, 09:52:47 PM
 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) ::) :P :-[ :-X :-X :-\ :-* :'(SDFASFWow whats all
Quote
this
stuff do
?*%$?!
[/sub][/tt](http://www.centralmediaserver.com/woai/knicksnuggets.jpg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2007, 12:32:46 PM

http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/
 (http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/)

has these NYTimes regulars:

Jaqdavisone
Bodiddley
Thebizneverloses
Chipstern
FWK00
Lesterdog
Carlos123
Facilitatorn
Theng
Kam77
PrezIke


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 23, 2007, 04:26:30 PM
It just ain't quite the same though, is it Kam? I miss the Times forums. I even miss Phil1c!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 23, 2007, 04:49:35 PM
Lester...

Connectivity is still here to bother you.

My prediction....Denver beats Spurs...

Larry Bird does not get fired...even thought he should for gutting a finals team...

McHale should also go

Nets sweep raptors!



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2007, 05:02:11 PM
It just ain't quite the same though, is it Kam? I miss the Times forums. I even miss Phil1c!

It sure aint.  We are a sad and sorry lot at the moment.  Cast away like the children of babel. But chip has told us of promised lands in the not too distant future thanks to Emann.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2007, 05:03:06 PM
I stole this from another forum, Bwahahhaa:

November (6-11 record)
.353 win %
98.2 ppg/45.5 FG%/42.5 rpg/17.8 apg/73.7 FT%

December (7-9)
.438 win %
100.0 ppg/44.6% FG/47.6 rpg/19.8 apg/69.5 FT%

January (7-8)
.467 win %
102.1 ppg/48.3% FG/43.1 rpg/20.4 apg/74.1 FT%

February (6-5)
.545 win %
97.3 ppg/46.3% FG/40.4 rpg/18.4 apg/76.5 FT%

March (5-9)
.357 win %
92.1 ppg/44.6% FG/41.4 rpg/18.0 apg/64.5 FT%

April (2-7)
.222 win %
92.1 ppg/44.8% FG/43.4 rpg/17.6 apg/73.7 FT%

The cold start and the injured finish tell the tale.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 23, 2007, 05:09:55 PM
the above would seem to implicate Steve Francis


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2007, 05:18:27 PM
December January February this was a .500 team.

Isiah must be pissed that we're not in the playoffs.
I think thats why he said no big changes next year.
He wants to prove it to his boss that he's right.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2007, 05:20:52 PM
the above would seem to implicate Steve Francis


Francis is a goner. Despite Isiah saying we'll keep him.  I think that was said to try and flush out last minute trade offers before we waive him just before the start of the regular season.   Likely waived.

I think it'll be addition by subtraction since that leaves the backup PG spot to the steady Collins. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 23, 2007, 05:22:10 PM
So, what did I miss?

NYTimes forums are dead, ok.  I prefer the posting format on this site of exiles to that of FWK's blog (though I could do without the "frills" here).  This place seems the closest we may get to the Times.  I like that there are other subjects to post on, adding the benefit that other posters may wander in to join the discussion. 

I don't really see why this couldn't become the permanent solution. its the posters that make the forum after all.  Get them over here. 

But if Emann's site is to become our home, I'm ok with waiting a month or so to talk Knicks.

Oh, and as for implicating Steve Francis in the losing at the end of the season?  Right you are.  Hopefully we will find what Orlando did, that subtracting Franchise brings immediate benefit.  Unfortunately I don't think we can hope for a player like Ariza in return. 

A big wet kiss from LB.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 23, 2007, 05:35:58 PM
So, what did I miss?

NYTimes forums are dead, ok.  I prefer the posting format on this site of exiles to that of FWK's blog (though I could do without the "frills" here).  This place seems the closest we may get to the Times.  I like that there are other subjects to post on, adding the benefit that other posters may wander in to join the discussion. 

I don't really see why this couldn't become the permanent solution. its the posters that make the forum after all.  Get them over here. 

But if Emann's site is to become our home, I'm ok with waiting a month or so to talk Knicks.

Oh, and as for implicating Steve Francis in the losing at the end of the season?  Right you are.  Hopefully we will find what Orlando did, that subtracting Franchise brings immediate benefit.  Unfortunately I don't think we can hope for a player like Ariza in return. 

A big wet kiss from LB.

Welcome Newbie!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 23, 2007, 05:38:36 PM
Lester...

Connectivity is still here to bother you.

My prediction....Denver beats Spurs...

Larry Bird does not get fired...even thought he should for gutting a finals team...

McHale should also go

Nets sweep raptors!



And Golden State beats Mavs.
Nellie is the coach we shouda kept. But JVG manipulated the situation to get him fired and the Knicks on a long run of mediocrity. And please don't credit him for the 1999 run. We got to the finals inspite of JVG, and thanks to the players he didn't like.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 23, 2007, 06:52:37 PM
K-9 I still got your ride. Loving it. Sawed the top off and turned it into a convertible.

Rembee welcome back. Ya didn't miss nothing but a heaping helping of excuses. Hope you're enjoying married life.

Carlos Agree 200% on JVG


Sad, all these colors don't make up for the lack of critical mass......
 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 23, 2007, 09:12:24 PM
December January February this was a .500 team.
Funny what you took away from that.
My impression from those numbers was that we only had 1 winning month out of 6.
I'm also not sure how December's 7-9 qualifies as .500.
Seems you get 35 wins (or to be generous 36) playing at that pace.
But I guess we've gotten used to lowered standards and making excuses.

Blame Francis if you like.
But why stop there?
Jeffries had an awful year, in keeping with his career.
Frye regressed and couldn't be counted on.
Crawford underperformed, at least compared to the expectations of many. 
Really he's just not very good.
Q did his Kurt Thomas impersonation, playing great out of the gate and becoming a crip by the New Year.
Nate didn't learn discipline yet.
JJ is still impersonating a basketball player.

On the plus side:
Curry improved his offense, reduced his fouls, and improved his stamina.
But still can't hit his FT's, doesn't play D, and boards like a SF.
Marbs made a much greater effort on D, and played hurt.
But he's starting to fall apart, and will be on the slide before we ever develop into any kind of playoff threat.
Lee became a man.  Balk and Collins showed they belong in the league.
Randolph Morris was acquired.
And we had a winning month, and a two month period where we played .500 ball.

Next year, expect Bucks, Bobcats, and Celts to be improved.  All had significant injuries this year, and have as much talent as we do.  Indy also missed the playoffs but is a better team than we are (though they are slipping).  Hell, the Hawks (with Joe Johnson and Josh Smith) could be a trade or two away from contending for a playoff spot, and they have alot of young trade chips.  This was the easiest year to ,make the playoffs.  Don't expect next year to be so soft.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on April 24, 2007, 12:03:21 AM
Damn,

This feels like a cyber USSR.

Remove: Francis, Jeffries, James
Bait: Frye, Nate, Crawford

Acquire: Shot blocking thug PF or dead eye shooter

Then hope to hell Collins develops a jump shot this summer and have him become the starting PG, move Marbury over to SG. Off the bench, Lee, Balkman, and Crawford if he is still a Knick. If Seattle stays in Seattle, possible they might pony up something for Nate and/or Crawford. The Northwest lives in high school and college, and both those guys bring up fond memories for the Seattle area


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 24, 2007, 07:58:20 AM
Next year, expect Bucks, Bobcats, and Celts to be improved.  All had significant injuries this year...This was the easiest year to ,make the playoffs.  Don't expect next year to be so soft.

And does this not go both ways?  I would call the Knicks' injuries in the final quarter, after the team had clearly started to hit its stride, very significant, no?

Injuries on the Knicks are just excuses while we have to watch out for every other team that was injured because that was what was holding them back, do I understand?  Hey, Lets play the next year game with the Knicks...Curry found his stride 15 games in this season, I expect him to be on from the start, adding to the win total.  David Lee will, fingers crossed, be healthy and continue to improve.  There was a point last season when I wondered if we could win any games without his hustle and double-double, and we had to play the last 25 without him.  Ditto Crawford, who lets not forget was our high scorer, drew tons of attention from the opposing defenses, and was a 4th quarter magician (even if some would say he still "underperformed").  Mardy and Balkman showed great improvement and should play larger and more steady roles for us next season, and Frye should be over his sophomore slump and be inspired to compete.  Hopefully Richardson's surgery was as successful as those types of procedures have been in the past (any news on that while I was away?) so that we get consistent production from our best two-way player.  JJslim couldn't possibly play any worse, and look for us to add by subtracting Franchise.

I agree Marbury's breaking down is a concern for next year.  At the same time, he was averaging something like 38 mpg.  We pick up a shooting-guard in the draft (as I expect us to) play Mardy more, add in a healthy Crawford and Marbs doesn't have to carry that kind of load.  He also started the season a little out of shape, which didn't help of course.

Back to the present...I don't know if we could have reached the magic number of 40 wins had we stayed healthy, but it was at least possible.  Someone posted on the now petrified NYT board the records of other teams that had won despite injuries.  Thing is, most of those teams were winners before and weren't in the middle of a rebuilding process.   This team lost key performers just as chemistry was starting to really come about.  Dismiss that if you like, but I'll stick to reality.

For me this is a little past the point.  I'm looking at the improvement, and this team was showing it during those .500 months.  Not just in the record, but in the play on the court against quality opponents.   Its a shame they weren't able to build on that later in the season.  But how can you when you don't have the personnel?

yeah, shame on Isiah for continuing to show faith in his charges.  But I'm with him.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 24, 2007, 08:49:58 AM
Only Isaihs team could get blamed for losing despite only having 40% of his starting lineup. Im with Isaih I think this team would have made the playoffs only if we had a few more bodies.  I think Curry developes a jumpshot next season (we saw glimpses of it toward the end of the season)making him more productive, Collins is the starting PG next season, the reason we lost so many games this year was because Stevie dribbles to much and really doesn't play within the offense look at the losses and you will see when stevie went down we started winning and playing consistently.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 24, 2007, 09:19:09 AM
Only Isaihs team could get blamed for losing despite only having 40% of his starting lineup.

I hear you.  Most of his starting line-up gone, a real contender for 6th man gone, and forced to play a ball-hog who exaggerated his injury for most of the season because he wasn't starting.

There were some who were also blaming Dolan's proclamation of faith in Isiah after he extended his contract.  Yeah, it was the contract extension, not the injuries to Crawford, Lee and Richardson which coincided with it.

So, as I'm trying to jump-start things here on the board...After we won 10 games more than last season while underachieving due to injury, can the Larry Brown supporters admit that he deserves at least a large share of the blame for last season's debacle?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 10:41:23 AM
The end of a sorry season is not the best time for launching any Knick forum but I tracked down mister.earl.  Hope this old friends shows up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 24, 2007, 12:34:31 PM
Only Isaihs team could get blamed for losing despite only having 40% of his starting lineup.

The Positive Polly's have become Pardoning Pauline's

What has happened to the tough, win or shut-up Knick fan?  How many excuses are you folks going to stomach?

This team wasn't any good when we were at full strength and yet some are willing to caulk the whole thing up to injuries?

Let's not even discuss the upcoming lottery!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 12:49:21 PM
Only Isaihs team could get blamed for losing despite only having 40% of his starting lineup.

The Positive Polly's have become Pardoning Pauline's

What has happened to the tough, win or shut-up Knick fan?  How many excuses are you folks going to stomach?

This team wasn't any good when we were at full strength and yet some are willing to caulk the whole thing up to injuries?

Let's not even discuss the upcoming lottery!


Where i don't agree is where you say we weren't any good before the injuries.  We were bad before the brawl but you can chalk that up to a new coach.  After the brawl for the next 40 games we were a .500 team.  A playoff team at one point.  Then the last twenty games we saw the injuries take their toll.

Its not unreasonable to expect, and demand 41+ wins next season.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 24, 2007, 12:53:55 PM
Badblak I never thought this team was great but I did think we came a long way and have some pieces that could catapult us back into contention.  What you knick fans tend to do is look at the here and now instead of viewing the whole picture. Lets look at the beginning when Isaih took over  adn stop looking at the win/lose record for a second we have a very young roster with some talent that needs to be nurtured, look at players like Gilbert  Joe Johnson or TJ Ford  young players who came into thier own not quite allstars but players who taught thier value up.  To me Mardy, Lee, Balkmann N8 and even Frye have the potential to become good solid players but the one thing thats missing and the one thing so called knick fans don't allow is TIME TO GROW. NOw get off Isaihs back and lets stay the course PLAY THE YOUTH


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 24, 2007, 01:01:02 PM
What has happened to the tough, win or shut-up Knick fan?  How many excuses are you folks going to stomach?

This team wasn't any good when we were at full strength and yet some are willing to caulk the whole thing up to injuries?


Caulking the whole thing up to injuries?  What does that even mean?  Have you heard anyone claim that we might be anything better than a 40 win team at full strength?  Do you really think that even the most ardent pom-poms are satisfied with that?  Are you really as numb to the idea of
improvement as you seem to be?  23 wins was this team's ceiling according to some, then it became 33, with injuries just a lame excuse.  What about next year?

Speaking for myself and not the rest of the pom-poms, (or what was it, Pardoning Pauline’s?) I have no problem with fans that may hold this team to I higher standard that I might, or expect greater improvement faster than I might.  You want to be tough on the guys, knock yourself out.  You think it’s your god-given right to have a playoff team after a 23 win season?  I'm not going to judge.

Where I have a problem is that this isn't really where the criticism (from most, I think) is really coming from.  A vast majority of those dismissing the injury talk as "lame excuses" were the very same who dismissed this team as worthless before they had played a game this season, dismissed the preseason team-building efforts from Isiah as blowing against the wind, the same guys who were crowing about how we weren't any better than last year after comparing the records three weeks into the season.  For those guys, the injuries aren't an excuse, true.  For them they are an opportunity, a chance to dismiss the obvious improvements the team made.  For them, the 3-15 finish (or whatever it was) was manna from heaven.

Yeah, it’s a fact that injuries happen.  It’s also a bloody fact that teams lose games because of them.  For every team that overcame injuries I could show you ten that didn’t, or isn’t that where that phrase “overcoming injuries” comes from?

The larger win total is insignificant says the Dawg and FWK.  I don't think it’s insignificant to be in the playoff race until the last few weeks vs. out of contention with three months to go in the regular season.  

We weren't any good at full strength says BBM.  Well, they weren't world-beaters, true, thanks for the analysis.  But I don't think a team that had built a winning record at home despite starting out 1-6, a team that was clearly developing chemistry, an identity on offense, and a young core for the future while battling quality teams down the stretch and losing (and winning) razor close games is as worthless as some so-called fans would like them to be.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: tysonnnyc on April 24, 2007, 01:02:47 PM
The positives for me are Balkman, Collins, Lee and Curry's development (needs to continue this development and get his behind on the boards).

This off-season I'd like to see Francis, Nate, Jeffries and Crawford moved.  All four of these guys annoy the hell out of me with either their immaturity, lack of defense or selfish attitude.  Frye can go, but only as a centerpiece of a package to get a go-to guy in here, like Jermaine O'Neal.  Otherwise, I'm not looking to run him out.

I hope to see a backcourt rotation of Marbury, Collins, Q and one other... preferrably a dead eye shooter.  Up front I'd like to see Curry, Lee, Balkman and a new go-to guy up front.  However, I have a feeling that either Lee or Balkman will be moved to get someone like Jermaine in here.

Question for you draft gurus - Any dead-eye shooters within range of our 23rd overall pick?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 01:17:33 PM


Question for you draft gurus - Any dead-eye shooters within range of our 23rd overall pick?

Italy's Marco Belinelli
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-A4N9-ti8&NR
NBA Comparison: Ray Allen


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 01:24:08 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r2WueJDD7c

To watch him shoot jumpers, This link is better


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 24, 2007, 01:25:27 PM
 Only Isaihs team could get blamed for losing despite only having 40% of his starting lineup.
[/color]

 Most of his starting line-up gone
[/color]

40 % my rear end. By my reckoning he had 80% of his preferred starting lineup for most of the pathetic finish including BOTH his franchise (list price paid) players : Marbury, Francis, Jeffries, X, Curry. And if you add in Snacks as X (who the budding hall of fame coach seemed to prefer over Lee) that makes 100%.

p.s. welcome to the new home BBLK


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 01:28:37 PM


Question for you draft gurus - Any dead-eye shooters within range of our 23rd overall pick?

Italy's Marco Belinelli
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-A4N9-ti8&NR
NBA Comparison: Ray Allen

And then there's this Morris Almond kid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxABT1q1V4I


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 24, 2007, 03:07:25 PM
Talk about just like home! I just lost my first post!

Let's try again!

improvement as you seem to be?  23 wins was this team's ceiling according to some, then it became 33, with injuries just a lame excuse.  What about next year?

This is lame.  Because it fails to, as Jaq said, look at the whole picture.  Sans last year's debacle, what's the franchise’s record since Isaiah came onboard?  The answers is around 33 wins.

So Isaiah took an old, unathletic, overpaid, poorly coached (since the coaches were fired this is a safe assumption) roster turned it over twice and produced an athletic overpaid, properly coached (again, an assumption) roster with the same win total?  Is there something wrong with this picture?

I'll give to Zeke, his drafting is amazing and that's not what's held back this franchise.  It's his trades and free-agent signings (yes ALL of them) that are killing us.

Case in point, Mardy Collins.  Mardy showed us this season that he's got all the tools and could be a great two-way player.  But what do we do with him next year? How many minutes is he going to get on the guard-heavy (expensive guards at that) roster?

The dreck is chocking the franchise.

A vast majority of those dismissing the injury talk as "lame excuses"

It probably wouldn't be view as lame if it didn't come on the heels of excuses like, Post-Traumatic LB Syndrome, our schedule was too hard and my personal favorite, the FANS.

an identity on offense

Nice try!  But you do know that there's a whole 'nother part of the game called D.E.F.E.N.S.E. right?

Nah, you're probably right, all is well, nothing to complain about.

Let's just practice patience!  FOR ANOTHER SEASON!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on April 24, 2007, 03:18:10 PM
So is our pick fixed at #23 or is it incumbent upon Chicago’s performance in the playoffs?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 24, 2007, 03:34:53 PM
p.s. welcome to the new home BBLK

Thanks Les!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2007, 03:44:12 PM
Salut tout le monde.

I feel bad posting here because FWK has put in a lot of work over on knicksmecca. He deserves credit. I'll probably pull double duty until emann's site is up.

Who runs this joint? Is there moderation? Can I go to the Middle East section and ask questions like "Did we ever determine who was at fault, the Arabs or the Israelis?" just to see what happens?

I agree with that bad black man, there is too much dreck on this rostor. It holds the yutes back. Snacks should not play ahead of Randolph Morris next year. And Francis should not be allowed back in the home dressing room in New York.

Nate failed to impress at any point this season. He's gone.

My gut tells me Frye is gone too. But these players will NOT get traded: Curry, Lee, Steph, Jamal. Plus Q cannot be moved, and it is unlikely that Snacks, JJ Slim can be moved or that Humpty or Mardy would be moved. I think Malik and Morris are gone if there is a blockbuster. Irrespective of what Isiah says, he will try make exploratory calls about superstars...unfortunately, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Lenny Wilkins are the people to call. And they are all probably loathe to return Isiah's calls. Same with whoever runs the joint in Denver, where there is one high-priced big too many.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 24, 2007, 03:44:17 PM

40 % my rear end. By my reckoning he had 80% of his preferred starting lineup for most of the pathetic finish including BOTH his franchise (list price paid) players : Marbury, Francis, Jeffries, X, Curry. And if you add in Snacks as X (who the budding hall of fame coach seemed to prefer over Lee) that makes 100%.


Some strained math there, dawg.  I was gone, but seems like we didn't have Marbury for the last 8-10 games really.  If Francis was Isiah's preferred starter then why didn't he start him when he was "healthy"?  He gave it a shot, then moved on, leading to Franchise’s mysterious season ending (but then not) arthritis.  Or don't you remember that?  Crawford was starting and leading the team in scoring.  Jeffries was the projected starter before the season, but usually started the game on the bench when Richardson was healthy.  Isiah preferred snacks to Lee?  Guess that’s why he played him 4 minutes to Lee's 33.  

I get the argument that you want to make...if it wasn't for injuries and suspensions forcing Isiah's hand, that would be our starting line-up and we should have expected to play at a 2-15 clip all season.  I don't buy it, and I suspect you don't either.  But I get why you are trying.

Kind of like the argument that if we hadn't let Rose and Taylor go (or hadn't made it clear that they wouldn't get the PT leading them to request an out) then we would be a 23 win team again.  


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 24, 2007, 03:44:53 PM
Pick is fixed.



(This is a test to see how the modify function works.)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 24, 2007, 03:51:21 PM
Badblak  a team doesn't just rebound right away after trading away their franchise player historically, look at chicago took them years to get back into contention, the celtics, detroit and a few more teams. I guess my point is rome wasn't built in a day and when Isaih first got here fans like you was putting the pressure on to win now hence the bad trades and mle signings but now he realize thats not the way to go so against your better wishes we're allowing the youth to play gain experience allow the dreck to come off the cap.  Isaih is a young GM who came in gun happy but have since learned a lesson and is approaching the job with patience and diligence.  


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 24, 2007, 04:02:34 PM
Badblak  a team doesn't just rebound right away after trading away their franchise player historically, look at chicago took them years to get back into contention, the celtics, detroit and a few more teams. I guess my point is rome wasn't built in a day and when Isaih first got here fans like you was putting the pressure on to win now hence the bad trades and mle signings but now he realize thats not the way to go so against your better wishes we're allowing the youth to play gain experience allow the dreck to come off the cap.  Isaih is a young GM who came in gun happy but have since learned a lesson and is approaching the job with patience and diligence.  

WOW!  Now it's my fault?

jaq, Letting the dreck come the cap is exactly what I wanted.  Even after he turned over the roster the first time I wanted him to stand pat and let the team gel.  Alas, Zeke wanted to put his stamp on the team and get rid of every vestige of the Dim Layden era, no matter what the cost.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 04:05:37 PM
Salut tout le monde.

I feel bad posting here because FWK has put in a lot of work over on knicksmecca. He deserves credit. I'll probably pull double duty until emann's site is up.


Welcome aboard.  FWK's work was indeed crucial in holding us together since the Yahoo site held so little appeal.  I don't feel bad though.  I contribute to both forums.  I posted a link from here to FWKs site and a link from his site over to this one. Whichever one takes off is the one i'll visit more. I think this place is more of what we're accustomed to but i wasn't averse to the blogs either.  Ultimately its up to the quality of posts.

 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 24, 2007, 04:09:03 PM
I like FWK's site.  But, it's just a little too much for my taste for posting purposes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 04:09:56 PM
(http://www.nba.com/media/celtics/telfair_legends400300.jpg)

Celtics ditch Telfair.

"I wanted to let you know that we have removed Sebastian's nameplate from his locker in Waltham. The facts and circumstances of his case have not been determined but he does not have a Celtics locker and we do not anticipate that he will," Celtics managing partner Wyc Grousbeck wrote in an e-mail to the Boston Globe on Tuesday.

Why?

"The players on the Celtics have been explicitly warned, this year, to obey the team and league gun prohibition as well as state laws. We take this very seriously and will act accordingly once the facts have been determined,"



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 24, 2007, 04:23:06 PM
Thats it we dump Francis and scoop us Telfair let him and Mardy battle for the starting job.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 04:27:12 PM
Thats it we dump Francis and scoop us Telfair let him and Mardy battle for the starting job.

Is Telfair an upgrade from Nate? I'd rather take the headcase i know over the one i don't.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 25, 2007, 07:09:42 AM
Quote
Whichever one takes off is the one i'll visit more. I think this place is more of what we're accustomed to but i wasn't averse to the blogs either.  Ultimately its up to the quality of posts.

This place is better for the freeform running back-and-forth we're used to and has fewer barriers to post-a-bility. FWK's is nice for single topic excursions and he deserves much credit for keeping things alive. The trouble with both and probably Emann's upcoming joint is that unlike the Times site, I don't know how they grow new posters. The nice thing about the Times is that someone would be reading the paper, click on discuss the knicks, and boom, we had new blood. Of course, we didn't have this:

Rembee: He kept starting Jeffries until the poor boy looked like he was going to break into tears in the tip-off circle. It was public humiliation.

Now Rembee, you're correct in that I don't believe the letter of my arguments, but absolutely the spirit, and I really do think Zeke was about five minutes away from being fired until the brawl suspensions forced his hand and saved his @$$. Patrick was in the red seats every night for awhile and that wasn't no coincidence, as Xeno speculated.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 25, 2007, 07:22:32 AM
Nate v. Telfair.

Nate all the way. Unfortunately, Nate doesn't have a lick of sense, can't play defense or find an open man. I believe Nate is bait at this point.

Remember all the bashing LB took for giving it to Nate. We'll maybe LB blew the season and is a cantakerous ego-driven fool, but with him, you had hope & the possibility that he would turn guys like Nate into players. That's what I find truly depressing about Zeke's "just-good-enough-to-keep-the-job" season. NOTHING that I saw leads me to believe he's the right person to coach and develop the nice talent he found in the draft.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 25, 2007, 09:41:09 AM
I think Zeke did a great job nurturing our talent but a few things were happening this season, first of all he had to change the state of the players because of the mental damage LB had inflicted( I know they're men they shouldn't feel emotions).  Secondly he had to change the culture and create a winning atmosphere and last but not least he had an omen over his head from his azzhole boss which had the media and fans influenced by the media critiquing his every move. Every lost magnified - every win downplayed so he wasn't just trying to nurture the youth I also believe he was trying to also keep his sanity and whats funny is he almost pulled it off man I wish we could have made the playoffs just to see ol no mustache Vecsey eat crow and look even more stupid then he does on nbatv.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 25, 2007, 11:17:22 AM

I really do think Zeke was about five minutes away from being fired until the brawl suspensions forced his hand and saved his @$$. Patrick was in the red seats every night for awhile and that wasn't no coincidence, as Xeno speculated.

...or maybe he was in line for an assistant coaching job, or maybe he was brought in to give advice to Isiah's charges as Magic and Micheal Ray Richardson were, or maybe Pat was in the Garden to watch a Knick game.

As long as we are wildly speculating...Don't you think if Zeke's head was minutes away from rolling the suspensions, no doubt due to Isiah calling for the hit on Anthony, would have in fact pushed Dolan to make that call?  A huge brawl and bad press for the Garden would have been the perfect opportunity to give his new coach only 10 games to accomplish what he publicly stated would take a season.  You really think he would have instead said "hmmm, well, let’s wait to see how they play after this."  No sale on that one.  Though I do find it amusing how easily you transfer your own desires onto Dolan.  I wouldn't admit to having that much in common with the man.

As for Thomas' development of the players...I think his strength as a coach is building a team mentality, not necessarily the development of individual players.  This is true.  He isn't a guy who is going to break down a player’s tendencies to rebuild him in his image, he takes a players strengths as a starting point.  This seemed to work with the young talent in Indiana, but with problem children the reigns are not tight enough.

And LB's record with problem children?  Take a real look at his record with young players before believing the hype that he is teacher, especially his record in Philly.  He Always looked to move his problem children somewhere else rather than coach them.  Did it in New York too with Ariza, and would have liked to do it with Frye and Robinson.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 25, 2007, 11:30:39 AM
Fire Sale in Seattle?  They just fired their Coach and Reassigned their GM.  They've stated their readiness to re-locate to another town.  And they have a player who may just be the most sought after Free Agent Small Forward.

Well I thought i'd share this little bball morsel: I was reading a Seattle fan forum and they're resigned to the fact they're losing Rashard Lewis and actually happy to go after Gerald Wallace because he "actually plays defense".



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 25, 2007, 11:36:41 AM
One thing folks may have forgotten but I have not is....The knicks could not stop anyone and where falling behind early in every game....Isiah inserted Big Snacks as you call him to give them a defensive line that would not put the Knicks behind every freakin game at the start.  

It worked...... Snacks did not play lots of minutes but his big butt presence at the start of games helped hold the the Knicks down when defense was the call of the day.  

 i dont know what you guys are looking at but Big Eddy Curry is not your most intimidating defensive center around...teamed with "I am soft as jello Channing Frye" and you have what Clyde calls Matador defense...guys just blowing by the the knicks guys with no shot blocking...  

The Knicks need a guy that plays hard nose defense....much like Artest without all the drama... The defense needs to be respected next year right now teams like the Nets and jason Kidd and jefferson as well as scott skiles have no respect for the Knicks defense...

If I was Isiah I would get Artest at all cost...JKidd and teams like the bulls need to see the knicks make some stops...win some games they thought we would lose...and really show dramatic gain....That my Knick friends starts with defense... Balkman and Collins are a start!   The knicks have enough offensive weapons!  Lets get some stops!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 25, 2007, 12:05:33 PM
With Balkman and Jeffries and even Q... what extra defense is Artest going to bring to the table at SF?  He'll just cancel out what we have now.  If we're building around Curry, then Lee/Frye are not good enough defensive PFs. And other than Collins and maybe Marbury, our backcourt has no defense either.

We need a PF who can rebound like Lee and play D.  Jermaine O'Neal, or Emeka Okafor would help.  Maybe the Bobcats land Oden and would trade Okafor for N8, Lee, Frye and the 23rd pick.


Title: Bassy
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 25, 2007, 12:32:08 PM
Why the hell would we want Telfair? For starters, him and Stephon don't see eye-to-eye. Second, he was a bench player on a 20-win team. He's a worthy project, but he's 4 years away and New York City is not the place for Bassy from Brooklyn to take a journey to find himself as a basketball player.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on April 25, 2007, 12:45:26 PM
Kam

Couldn't agree more. I mean really, both Balkman and Jeffries showed some promise at shutting down SFs. Q was the better two way player. But our problems lied with no defense Frye next to Curry. If Curry stays he needs a defending sidekick. The apathetic look alone from Frye made me want to toss something at my TV.

Hope Collins takes a zillion shots over the summer and practices getting it to Curry, especially the lob.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: tysonnnyc on April 25, 2007, 12:58:44 PM
Kam, thanks for the links.

As for Artest, not only is he a better defender than anyone we have, he is one of the best 2-way players in the entire league.  He would provide much better defense than Jeffries (who was suspect, IMO, all year), Balkman and Q.  In addition, Artest can play SG.

For me, the only problem with getting Artest is he would probably cost the Knicks some of the assets needed to get a PF like Jermaine, provided Indiana would even deal with Isiah.

Who would you rather have guarding the likes of Kobe, T-Mac, Wade, Rip etc?  Balkman, Q or Artest?  And keep in mind our perimiter defense sucks.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 25, 2007, 01:07:15 PM
I still want Artest so here's my trade scenario for the day we trade Frye,Francis and N8 to CLeveland for Drew Gooden and Larry Hughes,  why do they do it because they like Frye and it gives them a three point threat and scorer to play next to Lebron. Then we trade Crawford and Jeffries for Artest and Shareef Raheem.  Our Projected starting five before the draft.

PG  Steph
SG  Hughes
SF  Artest
PF   Shareef
C    Curry

thats a hell of a lot of defense to mask any if not all of Currys defecencies


second unit

PG  Mardy
SG  Q
SF   Balkman
PF  Lee
C   Randolph


Thats enuff Offense and defense to net us about 10 more wins and give a team a fit in the playoffs


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2007, 01:12:08 PM
Good to see badblk and trains here.

I agree with Kam that we need defense at the PF next to E-city.
But also we need defense at the SG next to Marbs.

I think the Artest train left the station, but I can see getting a two-way player at the SF.
Jeffries can't score and Balk can't shoot.  Artest at least can post and shoot and is an offensive threat, as well as a threat to be offensive.  That's why I like Q.  Rashard Lewis or Gerald Wallace would be great.  But SF is not the highest priority.
We really need better starters and defenders at the 2 & 4.

As for Seattle, Connectivity makes a valuable point.  Any deal for Rashard, Ray Allen (I think highly unlikely and he's too old for us), Sene, Petro, or Ridnour involves dealing with Lenny Wilkins, who we kicked to the curb.  Not going to be easy.
Petro and Frye could be a nice PF combo next to Curry.

Jaq said:
Quote
Isaih is a young GM who came in gun happy but have since learned a lesson and is approaching the job with patience and diligence. 
Good point, but I think part of Isiah's lesson was forced upon him, when Uncle Dolan took away the checkbook.

Lastly, Telfair has moves and quickness, but poor shooting, lack of finishing, no defense, and not good decision-making.  Nate is better, though Telfair still holds out the promise of becoming a decent-to-good point guard.  While Nate will always be a midget-SG microwave type.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 25, 2007, 02:19:18 PM
Who said Q was a great defensive player?  he is out more than 60 games over the past 2 seasons due to injuries...  he is not the answer....and is not available come playoff run time....Balkman is a good player and I would play him over Q but he is a rookie....  Lets face it Artest is what we need.... We could also use a guy like Jermain ONiel who when healthy is the best offensive playing big man in the East.

The thing that scares me is it looks like after all the bull...The checkbook may be closed from Isiah....If that is the case its a stupid blanket thing to do...because now is the perfect time to make a move on Artest, ONiel, Garnett,Webber, Lebron, Carter, Artest is not welcome in Sacremento says he wants to retire, Oniel should want out in Indy,they went down from a payoff contender to a bottom dweller, Garnett is a trooper but he is waste-ing  his career with the Timberwolves! 

After watching last night Kobe may want out soon!   THE LAKERS STINK -If I see two players in the world perfect for the Knicks its Kobe and Lebron....I see a lot of changing of the guard going on...Chicago is ready to pass Miami, Suns (Raja gets last laugh) over the lakers...

Did everyone see how Nash could not even get in the ballgame because Barbosa is playing so well?.... Nash is the 2 time MVP and Barbosa must be destroying him on practice.... 

I like the Nuggets in that series but I see the Spurs winning tonight its Duncans Birthday tonight....its in San Antonio....If they lose again at home its over...so bet the house on Big Timmy tonight...   Lou Deng and Ben Gordon destroyed an injured DWade who is at times a liabilty to his team cuz his strength just not there...

Bottom line is the Knicks need a defensive stopper and at least one player that can shoot consistantly from the outside...like kapono or steve Blake...if isiah does not upgrade or as he says improve...he will be out ....this team still is not completed.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 25, 2007, 02:57:33 PM
Do we really think Isaih is staying put this summer I sure hope we don't also I believe Dolan was seriously thinking about canning Isaih which is why he closed the book but I now believe he is convinced Isaih is the man wherefore giving him full run of the team. Isaih first said he would trade his mama if the right deal came along and think that still stands this is not the team that will be playing for the ring next season its a short list on a few players. I believe  Crawford, N8, Frye, Jeffries, Malik and maybe Lee or Balkman are all on the block  the last two because we'll have to give to get.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 25, 2007, 02:59:59 PM
Say what?

- Artest is a headcase and has messed up his last two teams badly.  And these days he's no longer content to just D up, but wants to be featured with the ball and jack threes.  Pass.

- Nash on the bench might have had something to do with the 30 point lead.  Besides he did his night's work already, dropping 14 dimes in 25 minutes.  Barbosa is what we wish Crawford could be.

- Blake has a pretty shaky outside shot.  He is a good distributor and hustles though.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 25, 2007, 05:01:01 PM
bodiddley

We need defense... Is Jared the answer?   No!

Artest will do what his main man and guy that will restore his career Isiah says!  I have not seen a player that Isiah can not reach.  I dont blame Artest for what happened in Detroit...he did not want to fight Ben Wallace...and nobody could save the Kings by the time he arrived out there.   Living in a place like sacremento will mess up any marriage when you are from the city... Rons attemps at 3 ptrs would be stopped by Zeke... I honestly believe Ron Artest could find a home at the Garden where they reward hard work defense.  But the Knicks cant stop anyone right now...if they could stop NJ or orlando or Toronto or milwaukee they would be a shoe in to go to the playoffs...Thats all the knicks are missing...

I listened to this forum taught up Channing Frye...what a bust.  now you pass on Ron Artest the toughest SOB in the league?   Dumb...ask Oakley what he thinks I bet he says get some defense.

connect out.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on April 25, 2007, 07:03:05 PM
You got to admit, that trade that Indy made was just awful. I can't believe they brought in those scrub pushovers. J Oneil was pissed at the time and if he does want out, surely Isiah would be the answer. Zeke has turned into a pretty cool players coach.

If Zeke has a choice of where to trade his assets, it has to be with Indy. Maybe they'll take Frye and package for Oneal. I can live with Balkman/Q/Jeffries at the SF spot, I can't be happy with Frye though. He's just too laid back to be Curry's sidekick. Its possible even this Morris kid was nabbed as trade fodder to Indy, they'll want low priced potential. My two favorite yutes on this team are Lee and Balkman, hopefully we can keep those two because they are hustle guys who play above the rim.

And yes, Artest is the easier acquisition, he's also riskier and provides less.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 25, 2007, 07:38:40 PM
OK, I admit I like Carlisle because of the Cavalier connection but take a look at this and let me know your thoughts...

http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2007/04/carlisle.html

Would never happen, of course, and I think Isiah retains both hats as long as he is in NY.  But like I said, I like Carlisle.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 25, 2007, 08:01:39 PM
Funny to think about the connections....Carlisle gets passed up for the Pacers coaching job for Isiah...Carlisle takes head coaching job for Isiah's former team the Pistons...Carlisle builds up the Pistons only to be replaced by one Larry Brown...Carlisle replaces Isiah on the Pacers when Bird becomes GM..........to be continued?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on April 25, 2007, 09:11:36 PM
Potential early trade scenerio

http://mvn.com/nba-knicks/2007/04/25/trade-speculation-starts-early/

We move Frye/Crawford/Jeffries for Oneal

I'd do this trade instantly. We get better defensively underneath, we add an underneath scorer, and we get better defensively on the perimeter by subtraction. If this goes through, I hope Clyde is working overtime on Mardy Collins. I think Marbury could be a solid SG...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 25, 2007, 09:38:39 PM
Indy will be insistent that any deal for O'Neal will have to include Tinsley. And Crawford can't be moved. Let's say Frye/Francis/Jeffries/Nate for O'Neal/Tinsley/Greene. They save bit time money.

Then let's trade Malik and Morris for Artest, since Sacto is desperate to unload Ron Ron.

We would need to replace Malik's interior defense and leadership, and I like Dale Davis. He's tough and he's experienced.

And I think Carlisle is a brilliant Xs and Os guy. Nice post Rembee, I'm with you.

So...Coach Carlisle will be able to trot out a very familiar lineup of Tinsley/Q/Artest/Davis/J'Oneal. I say Q because he offers the outside shooting and tenacious D that Stephen Jackson might have provided.








Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 12:22:20 PM
NO













BAD
























APPLES


Title: Re: Knicks need Ron Artest!
Post by: connectivity999 on April 26, 2007, 02:13:53 PM
Who said no bad apples?

You guys act like you putting together a boys chior.

This is basketball....defensive respect is needed in this game...


Read my lips!

We need some STOPS!    wouldnt it be nice if the GARDEN CROWD WAS YELLING DE - FENCE! , DE - FENCE! AND THE KNICKS ACTUALLY CAME THROUGH?

Read any blog from the players in the playoffs now....All they are saying is we need to get some STOPS!!!   If we can hold them to 80 points we can win.... If we can contain this player or that player we would win?   The Knicks need defense and or a real Star like jermaine ONeil or Ron Artest....

Ok whats the worst that can happen he beats up a few guys....Isiah has his back

Artest when he was in favor in Indiana...was loved big time....he will not back down...The Garden is one of those places that would bring the best out of Ron Artest because the fans ask so much from you....Ron would go the extra mile for the team...he would be a protector for Curry...he would be a rebounding maniac...along side w/Lee the Knicks would rule the boards...If you double on Marbury or Curry or Crawford...Ron can hurt teams offensively also...

ONeil is a great choice but my choice is Ron...he actually was better at times than jermaine when they played together...    We need stops! Put artest on JKidd or Vince or those soft ass Chicago Bull guys...  We would shut up all that chatter from Skiles and jason Kidd and that soft ass jefferson.

I cant wait to beat NJ.


Title: David Lee at SF
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 02:22:10 PM
David Lee should start and both Q-rich and Jefferies need a change of scenery.  Check out the top unit in terms of +/- for the Knicks.  The units that play the most, were the worst performers except in one scenario:  When DLee and Frye join Curry in the frontcourt.

http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com/2007/04/best-5-man-unit-that-plays-most-starts.html


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 02:23:16 PM
I have to agree with c9.

There's no REAL fight in this team.  Getting down by 25 and then scrambling to come back and lose by 6 is fools gold.  We need someone that's going to get into the opposition's drawers and in the face of any teammate that won't do the same.

How times would Steph let the opposing pg blow past him before Ron-Ron is up in his grill?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 02:33:31 PM
First thing we do is make Mardy Collins the starting PG.  15-6-6 with a defensive ethic is enough proof for me.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 02:47:40 PM
That's cool, but but who sits?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 02:55:01 PM
In reality - noone

Isiah will continue his open player policy - allowing for each guy to NOT know a role, but think there is LIGHT for them.

He will NOT deal from excess, NOT thin the herd to a manageable number.

He likes his ASSETS too much for his own good.  He is INCAPABLE of deliveringbad news to a player, thus will not curtail anyone's playing time any more than he needs to.

And we will again be a MESS.

Oh, you menat what would I do?  Let's not get into that again.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 03:00:19 PM

How times would Steph let the opposing pg blow past him before Ron-Ron is up in his grill?

How long are we going to have to hear the old, and never really true, chestnut of guys "blowing past" Marbury?

Here is an update for those who missed this season...1) Marbury wasn't guarding the opponents pg, but usually their sg, 2) He was at numerous times this teams best back-court defender, putting in effort that was usually respectable and sometimes spectacular (see his defensive performance against Ray Allen) and 3) It was Marbury who was "up in the grill" of his teammates when effort or focus was lacking.  Really, with Crawford and Francis to pick on, the continued obsession with Marbury is telling.

We need better defensive players, period, starting with a shot-blocker.  We don't need an Artest getting all up in playas grills.  We saw where that got Indiana, and it didn't seem to do much for the Kings.






Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 26, 2007, 03:18:07 PM
marbury plays defense...and Ron will get in the opponents grill not his teamates...

As for a shot blocker who?  jermain is a 6'10 6'11 guy....garnett is also PF size...

Not a whole lot of shot blocker sout there...

lets get the best available player...starting w/Ron since the Kings want him gone so bad....  Jermaine ONiel will be harder to get...Larry legend wont give him up cheap...

Garnnet is staying put for now.  What the hell are you guys talking about?  There is nobody out there.  Steal Ron now!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 03:23:14 PM
If Artest can be had for Jerome James or Jared Jeffries.... or to a lessser extent Quentin Richardson or Malik Rose then count me in.  In other words, if SAC is desperate to dump him for something and we're the only suitor...

Because Ron could be out of the league.  He already has a 73 game suspension.  NBA likes to give bigger suspensions the more trouble a player gets into. So whats next? A two-year BAN the next time Ron does something crazy?

So i'm all in favor of Ron for my undesirables.  Sure... why not.

But nothing of value must go.  Didn't we learn from the Ariza trade?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 03:24:36 PM
He likes his ASSETS too much for his own good.  He is INCAPABLE of deliveringbad news to a player, thus will not curtail anyone's playing time any more than he needs to.

And we will again be a MESS.


More fantastical nonsense.

Rose and Taylor were let go when Isiah made it clear to them they weren't going to get the PT after Q-Rich and Lee's strong preseason .  Isiah chose Crawford over Francis leading to Franchise's "season-ending arthritis in the knee".  Zeke had the veteran Rose sitting on the bench (a guy who had started 35 games the season before) in favor of David Lee (and no, Rose wasn't cool with that).  Isiah had plenty banked on Jared Jeffries but didn't hesitate to seriously curtail his minutes when he didn't perform.  Same with Frye.  Nate's loose cannon was shelved for much of the season and finally...yes, even the teacher's pet Stephon Marbury was benched at key times at the beginning of the season when Isiah didn't like the effort he was seeing.  That helped turn Stephon's season around.

So I don't want to hear it, kiid.  Your delusions didn't fly on the NYTimes board, they ain't going to fly here.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 03:27:56 PM
I am not all for getting Artest (I'd see what the price is, but be very wary), but I als don't think you can blame him for the team not melding.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 03:29:02 PM
"Didn't we learn from the Ariza trade?"

Yeah - that we had excess to deal and dealt it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 03:30:50 PM
How do you throw around the word delusional after touting Turnstilebury's defense?

Talk about revisionist!  That's almost as rich as when you tried to slide that crap in about LB wanting to get rid of Frye yesterday.

Just becuase you type it don't mean it's turn. No matter how many times you type it!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 03:34:28 PM
"Isiah chose Crawford over Francis"

This never happpened.  Stevie had the ball when he was healthy.  The injury opened the Craw door. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 03:42:36 PM
How do you throw around the word delusional after touting Turnstilebury's defense?

I can't help you if you didn't catch many games last year.

Marbury was a solid defender last season, especially given that he was routinely guarding bigger shooting guards, not the point guards you claim were blowing by him.  

That's almost as rich as when you tried to slide that crap in about LB wanting to get rid of Frye yesterday.

I can't help you if you don't read the papers.

Brown wanted to trade Frye, this is as solid as anything you can take from the rags that cover the team in this city.  Take from that what you want, but given the man’s history of personnel decisions, not surprising he wanted to move a still developing rookie for an established vet.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 03:46:15 PM
UCONN announces Thabeet will return to school

NBAdraft.net has us taking McRoberts, which I guess I could live with.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 03:47:27 PM
First, you can't start quoting the papers just because it suits you.  Secondly, would you care to post a link of this mythical article you speak of.

The defense thing I'm going to leave alone becuase you've obviously been at the kool-aid again.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 03:48:05 PM
I mean, damn.  Even a recent Lupica article well quoted by the negative nancys made reference to LB wanting to move Frye.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 26, 2007, 03:49:36 PM
Its starting to feel like home in here I second the motion for Artest he is just what we need on this team, a few years ago people was having this same argument about Sprewell before he came and rescued our beloved knicks.  Id take Artest in a minute and some of the trade proposals you guys are offering is insulting Artest is definetely a top ten talent and Id make them an offer they can't refuse.  I  think J Oneal is playing like he's in his twilight years where big men become more of jumpshooters and try to shy away from contact. We need a young hungry Forward somebody like Chris Wilcox from seattle or Maxiel from detroit.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 03:51:22 PM
I mean, damn.  Even a recent Lupica article well quoted by the negative nancys made reference to LB wanting to move Frye.

If it's recent then it should be very easy to produce a link.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 03:53:29 PM
Id take Artest in a minute and some of the trade proposals you guys are offering is insulting Artest is definetely a top ten talent and Id make them an offer they can't refuse.

We got Sprewell for the an over the hill John Starks. I'm not trading anything good for a guy with two strikes already.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 26, 2007, 03:54:08 PM
speaking of delusions, the only thing I saw in the paper was the standings

the Knicks desperate to win head-and-shoulders with a whole pack of teams desperate to lose

but if LB HAD tried and succeeded in getting Zeke to move Frye it would have been a first for the King of Cap, Selling High instead of Getting Fleeced.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on April 26, 2007, 04:01:41 PM
Its starting to feel like home in here

All we need now is:

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Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 04:07:59 PM
"Brown wanted to trade Frye.........."

And why is it you are not open to the possibility that this could have helped us?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 04:08:55 PM
LB now rumored to Memphis, by the way (sorry if this was posted already)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on April 26, 2007, 04:10:24 PM

I can't help you if you didn't catch many games last year.


I was busy at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center having my prostate enlarged.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 05:07:47 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2007/04/dolan_full_of_excuses_and_some.html

Brown wasn't convinced that Channing Frye could be a big-time power forward.

This is the recent piece I was referring to, but I would have to dig deeper to reference the dispute Brown and Isiah had over trading him.  I’ll have to do that later.

And of course, kiid, one can’t dismiss the possibility that trading Frye last year might have helped, certainly in the short run and probably if the rumored Frye-Odom trade was true.    The point was made in reference to Brown being overrated as an educator…he’s more like a Texas school principle, kicking out the problem kids to improve his graduation rates. 

You can trust his ability to evaluate young talent (and it could still turn out that Frye is an all-out dud)  Problem is Brown has been wrong more times than right in the past (just ask Orlando how Milicic and Ariza have worked out for them) so I don’t think you should take Brown’s opinion of a rookie as a given after half a season.  That’s all.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 05:09:03 PM
Where is Mister.Earl? Where is Chipstern? Where my boys at?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 05:10:12 PM
".....kicking out the problem kids..."

If only Bird thought of this sooner.

AS OPPOSED TO COLLECTING EM, EH? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 05:10:36 PM
The Principal is your pal.

Sorry, I was educated in Texas.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 05:12:20 PM

If only Bird thought of this sooner.


Channing Frye...Ron Artest.

Sorry, don't see the connection.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 05:18:49 PM
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/knicks/archives/2007/04/by_marc_berman_7.html

Frye’s trade value has plummeted. I will give Brown kudos on that one – he told Isiah last season Frye’s trade value may never be higher and he tried to make a handful of deals that featured the rookie, including one for Lamar Odom....Marc Berman


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 05:23:17 PM
I'll take my slap like a man Rem.  But it does seem once again that LB was a sage.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 05:33:05 PM
But it does seem once again that LB was a sage.

Once again?  Like with Ariza you mean?

Sorry, but I can't give the guy credit for possibly being right (still early to make that call i think) for just doing what is his MO, seeking to trade guys that in his opinion don't get it, won't ever play the right way (ie his way).  Not when that attitude sunk Philly by sending away guys that turned out to be real talents, not when that attitude had solid players on the bench like Milicic in Detroit and Lee here in NY.  Not when that led to a disastrous Francis for Ariza trade that we are going to be paying for down the line.

A sage?  no.  And not a teacher either.  The guy knows his basketball, but he is an impatient task-master with an itchier trigger finger than Isiah's.  And we all know that’s saying something.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on April 26, 2007, 06:18:23 PM

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But everyone who hears these sayings and believes them, will be like a foolish man who built his forum on the silicon: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that forum; and it fell.  And great was its fall.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 06:22:07 PM

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But everyone who hears these sayings and believes them, will be like a foolish man who built his forum on the silicon: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that forum; and it fell.  And great was its fall.

A good point was brought up.... i forget who it was who said it...  the NYTimes brought a steady trickle of newcomers to the forum due to the perpetual "Discuss the Knicks" link on the sport page.  I wonder if this place will continue to grow.  Will Nagel, Emann et all eschew Elba for a nation divided?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 06:27:47 PM
"seeking to get rid of guys that will never play the right way (ie - his way)........"

Had a 5 year deal.  Don't kill him for wanting those years to be as productive as possible

Or maybe a coach with his resume should have asked his boss how to coach the current personnel


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 26, 2007, 06:54:26 PM

A good point was brought up.... i forget who it was who said it...  the NYTimes brought a steady trickle of newcomers to the forum due to the perpetual "Discuss the Knicks" link on the sport page.  I wonder if this place will continue to grow.  Will Nagel, Emann et all eschew Elba for a nation divided?

There's a way to get around that.  We all troll other message boards, if you meet someone interesting and knows hoops, invite them over.

I did that with Rem a few years back, saving him from juvenile ESPN boards.

Did you ever say thank you Rem? I don't think so.  ; )


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thelefant on April 26, 2007, 07:29:22 PM
What's that someone said? Collins as starting point?

Now that's something I'd like to see. Uh, it does mean Francis goes off somewhere, right? Cause when that man comes on the court, hope runs to the exit.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 26, 2007, 07:35:34 PM

I did that with Rem a few years back, saving him from juvenile ESPN boards.

Did you ever say thank you Rem? I don't think so.  ; )

Really?  I thought I had.  A year back we reminisced when you came back after being off the board for a while.  I thought I gave you credit then for bringing me to the NYTimes boards.  I remember it was the never ending and completely pointless Houston vs. Sprewell debate that had the two of us going at it a little like we were today.

Anyway, a long overdue thank you.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 26, 2007, 08:32:12 PM
Speaking of shotblockers and defensive bigs, my heart sinks a little when I see a frontline of Camby and Nene putting up strong numbers against SA in the playoffs.  I thought that was going to be our frontline of the future.  I came to the NYTimes board a few months before that draft, because I was worried about the direction the Layden Knicks were headed, and thought that draft offered us some hope.  Seems like a long time ago.

In other disappointments, if you look at the Sweetney draft the following year, the first 8 players taken include four bonafide stars and four fairly solid players, with a severe talent drop-off beginning at the 9th pick (ours, used on Mike Sweet-and-Low-to-the-Ground).  Nobody of note after the 8th pick (exceptions: David West at #18 & Diaw at #21) until the last two picks of the first round -- Barbosa and Josh Howard.  Then we took Lampe with the next pick, to kick off the 2nd round.

[btw, whatever happened to 2nd rounders such as James Lang, Jerome Beasley, and Malick Badiane?  Or from other years, Christian Drejer 6-9 210 SG (Den) 1982; Chris Taft, Erazem Lorbek (great name)?]


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 08:45:25 PM
I told earl about us over here, but he can't drag himself away from ultimateknicks!  Tryin to do some good i suppose.  Those unwashed heathens over there don't deserve him or his poetic eloquence.  But he gives it to them. Not us  :(

PS: Animated emoticons suck


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2007, 03:10:38 AM
Hello all.

I'd take O'neal or Artest for any combo not including Lee, Curry, Q, Balkman, Colllins or Marbs. This is our core going forward. I'd also look to draft a shooter and bring back Frank Williams or bring on Jay Williams ifhis rehab has progressed enough to give cheap back court depth. I think we are stronger at SF with Q and Balkman and even Mardy able to play there than we are with our PFs beyond Lee. If JO is available for Jamal, Jefferies and Frye Zeke should definitely pull the trigger. I wouldn't be sad to see Craw back but with Curry JO wouldn't need to be the primary post banger on offence just on the other end and this might make the Knicks a better fit for him at this stage of his career than many other teams in terms of health and longevity.

How would this be for an offseason: JO trade, Matt Carrol as MLE (I know Zeke said he wouldn't) and Dominic Maguire with #23 as our pippen/tmac in training


It so nice when service IS available


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 27, 2007, 08:51:54 AM

I did that with Rem a few years back, saving him from juvenile ESPN boards.

Did you ever say thank you Rem? I don't think so.  ; )

Really?  I thought I had.  A year back we reminisced when you came back after being off the board for a while.  I thought I gave you credit then for bringing me to the NYTimes boards.  I remember it was the never ending and completely pointless Houston vs. Sprewell debate that had the two of us going at it a little like we were today.

Anyway, a long overdue thank you.

All these years and you still can't read my sarcasms? Very disappointing.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 27, 2007, 09:04:42 AM
You know the more I think about it we don't need J Oneal we need a bruiser at PF, I think a frontline of Oneal and Curry is no different then Frye and Curry. We need someone who plays hard and lives in the paint someone like a bigger Lee. My choice is either Chris Wilcox who I think we can get or Jason Maxeill   Maybe Isaih can holla at his boy dumars and he look out for him and give us maxiel on the cheap.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 27, 2007, 09:43:00 AM
Jaq 9.6 boards and 2.6 blocks don't qualify as a bruiser? I think even his career numbers of 7.8 boards and 1.9 blocks are firmly in  the bruiser category and are definitely more bruiseresque than anything we can expect from Frye. Don't let the gaudy offensive stats fool you, homey can bang with just about anyone. Injury history is the biggest caveat, that and his enormous salary which runs two years past Marbs. He's actually more expensive than the three guys we'd be trading over his last two years (Houston/Marbles numbers in 09 and 10). Fortunately Jeffries and Crawford each run a year beyond O'neal so longterm we'd save. He'd be a great role model for Curry, Morris and Lee in terms of what it takes to be a great big man and already has a great releationship with Isiah. The money is absurd though, which might make nutty artest a safer bet despite his issues (two years at 8 mil - expires with marbs and franchise)


Title: Time to trade?
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 27, 2007, 10:55:56 AM
Mike Dougherty frames the question right:

Usually, when a team dumps a head coach it’s because the move is easier than changing the entire roster. Indiana and Seattle, though, might be ready to start from scratch. Both organizations are looking for a new head coach.

Does that mean they will be conducting fire sales as well?

Time will tell, but if somebody pushes the panic button only established veterans with high-end contracts are likely to be dangled. Knicks coach Isiah Thomas has indicated he doesn’t plan to shake up his own roster, but phone calls are still being made.

Of course, there is a potential disconnect.

In order to land somebody like Jermaine O’Neal or Ray Allen, the Knicks are going to have to part with some young players. Do they have anybody Indiana or Seattle wants? Yes. David Lee or Renaldo Balkman or Mardy Collins.

Perhaps all of the above.

Rashard Lewis will likely be a free agent. He might come a little cheaper in a sign-and-trade deal, but Thomas would still have to part with a couple of young players along with a veteran to make the salary numbers match.

The question is, are the Knicks close enough to being a legitimate contender to give up young players that will be part of the rotation for the next eight years along with a useful veteran for a player who figures to be helpful over the next four seasons?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 27, 2007, 11:00:43 AM
Happy to see kid carter back.

I think he brings up a couple key points:

- LB *may* have been right about trading Frye early. Of course, the Dougherty Conundrum (are we close enough to trade potential for proven talent) was still in effect last year
- LB had a 5 year deal, but was not given a chance to create anything over his 5 years. He may have had a plan

Of course, LB absolutely lost his mind. And lost the confidence of his team and his superiors in the process. I think this will be an abberation, and expect more restraint from him in his next stop.

I think Isiah will consolidate talent if he has the opportunity. But the players we want to give up, Nate and Frye, are not the ones other teams will want. So I don't think we will see any major changes. That doesn't necessarily mean Isiah doesn't see the value of trimming the herd, it may just mean that no palatable options are out there.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 11:21:16 AM
Palatable options are out there.  They just ain't easy to get. Or always predictable.

A year ago reports were the the Utah Jazz would do anything to dump Carlos Boozer.  He would have been perfect next to Curry.  We may have another chance this year with AK47.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2007, 11:33:42 AM
Nate and Frye, and I'd add Crawford and Jeffries.
Unfortunately, most of them need the first half of next season to establish value.
Might have to give up Lee or Balkman to get something we want.
If you are getting Jermaine, than you only need to keep one of Frye or Lee to backup the bigs, and Frye can also play center.
If you are getting Rashard, than Balk is less needed, unless we can palm off Jeffries in the deal.

I guess my point is don't fall in love too much with role players and depth.
First you get the quality starters, then you can work some hustle/role players around them.
You only need 6 or 7 quality players, along with two more who can spot in and handle minutes.  I'm focused on our starting five, rather than be seduced by how much depth we have.  Sure I want to keep Lee and watch him develop.  But he has value league-wide right now.  How does he project out?  Can he be an average starting PF handling 30+ minutes a night?  Could he be a better than average starting PF?  If the answer is no, you have to consider packaging him for an above average starter who isn't too old..

Not convinced?  Think of it this way, we just added Randolph Morris and we'll get another late 1st rounder in a deep draft -- likely a decent PF prospect or a shooter.  How many young guys and role players do we need?  Lee, Frye, Balk, Nate, Collins, Morris, and 1st rounder.  Jeffries clearly a role/bench guy as well.

Btw, any thoughts on where R. Morris would go in this draft if he was eligible?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 27, 2007, 11:40:23 AM
No palatable options are we crazy Artest will be out there for the taking, Cleveland wanted Frye last season. I like Gooden and think he plays big around the basket and puts up good numbers even though he's not the focal part of thier offense -- and if I can dump Francis in the process Id take Larry Hughes who is also a two way guard, Imagine Steph, Hughes, Artest,  thats enuff defense to mask currys defecencies. Those are all players we can get and all would be upgrades and the only large contract would be Hughes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 27, 2007, 11:41:04 AM
Boozer.  That was my best call all year.  It looked like a big risk before he played like a M-A-N all year long.  AK96 looked allright in Game 3.  Picked up fouls a bit too fast, but he was flying all over the court, a hair away from disrupting numerous plays.  Oddly enough, Giricek seems to defend TMac better.  AK plays TMac tight, so TMac drives more, while GG plays him a little looser, so TMac goes for the jumper, and usually Giricek gets a hand very close.





Title: Re: Time to trade?
Post by: rembee on April 27, 2007, 11:44:17 AM
The question is, are the Knicks close enough to being a legitimate contender to give up young players that will be part of the rotation for the next eight years along with a useful veteran for a player who figures to be helpful over the next four seasons?


That is the central question.  At this point the Knicks really have two options...

One, you pursue a trade for a player like O'Neal by dangling some of the young players who have trade value and hope that coupling him with Curry and Marbury will allow you to make some noise for the next couple of years.  But what happens after that?  

Two, you sit tight and build from within, making deals to thin the herd wherever possible while holding on to your young core and maintaining salary levels until 2009.  At that point we would likely be around the cap after resigning Marbury to a reasonable veteran deal and holding on to our current crop of young players (Isiah has already said he doesn't plan on using the MLE this year, maybe at this point we don't)  This leaves us one trade away from winning enough cap space to bring in a top free-agent in a sign-and-trade (Jamal Crawford with two years 18 mill left on his deal, Richardson with one year 9 mill left, for example).  Obviously, long-term, a better option but it depends on the liklihood of our being able to sign that final piece in free agency.

As for a deal for Rashard Lewis....Seattle would want a contract that saves them money.  At this point the only package I can see that would do that and work would be Malik Rose + Channing Frye.  I don't think Seattle goes for that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on April 27, 2007, 11:50:17 AM
Quote
Cleveland wanted Frye last season. I like Gooden and think he plays big around the basket and puts up good numbers even though he's not the focal part of thier offense -- and if I can dump Francis in the process Id take Larry Hughes who is also a two way guard....
Oh, excellent trade proposal, but tell me, what doctor is going to perform the surgery to remove Danny Ferry's brain?  Because short of that....  Let me clue you in: Cleveland needs to get better to win the title, but trading the second and third best players on a 50 win team for two huge stinking piles of poo isn't going to make them better.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 12:05:52 PM
Quote
Cleveland wanted Frye last season. I like Gooden and think he plays big around the basket and puts up good numbers even though he's not the focal part of thier offense -- and if I can dump Francis in the process Id take Larry Hughes who is also a two way guard....
Oh, excellent trade proposal, but tell me, what doctor is going to perform the surgery to remove Danny Ferry's brain?  Because short of that....  Let me clue you in: Cleveland needs to get better to win the title, but trading the second and third best players on a 50 win team for two huge stinking piles of poo isn't going to make them better.

(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:OOk_nmFCG4t-vM:http://www.minutecity.com/sitebuilder/images/word/lol.gif)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 27, 2007, 12:18:24 PM
Yo kam whats funny


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 12:20:46 PM
Yo kam whats funny

I got a serious chuckle at WP calling Franci-Fry a steaming pile of poo.  I took more enjoyment out of that than I should've i guess.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 27, 2007, 12:28:15 PM
Wow WP's got an avatar.  This place might not be so bad.  Is that a post count privilege?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 27, 2007, 12:32:59 PM
I have to say NO to J. O'neal. He seems to be injured a lot lately and haven't he had enough of that?  For me  Artest still the way to go b/c we fulfills so many of our needs, primarily defense and toughness.

Yeah the risks are great but so are the rewards.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 27, 2007, 12:33:25 PM
Funny, I was thinking the opposite.  If more cats on here start using avatars and moving over to FWK's place.

Or was that me failing to pick up your sarcasm again?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 27, 2007, 12:42:58 PM
No, that was genuine.  Avatars are fine, as long as they don't get out hand (see RealGM).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 12:48:36 PM
Avatars are stupid.  1 out of 10 are usually cool.  The rest are either bouncy-breasts (uhmm why am i complaining again?) or some 3 second video clip or animated-gif.

That said, they're not a post count thing.  You just gotta poke around the site a bit more.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 27, 2007, 01:03:47 PM
What are you testing you whole photo collection? That's the third time you've changed that thing in the last five minutes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 01:09:16 PM
What are you testing you whole photo collection? That's the third time you've changed that thing in the last five minutes.

I had to find the one that was juuuust right.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 27, 2007, 01:20:01 PM
Avatars are fine, as long as they don't get out hand.

Of course they will get out of hand, thats their nature.  Who can resist the siren call of obnoxious graphics that distract from true content?

FWKs got that too, but might be the lesser of two evils.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 01:24:33 PM
I agree.  I'd rather this place was more like the Times. No emoticons.  No avatars. No Marquee.  What I like about FWKs site is that you can upload an image.  Here you can only point to one.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 27, 2007, 02:03:14 PM
I hope everyone realises I was kidding when I suggested hiring Carlisle and trading for JO, Ron Ron, and Tinsley and then signing Dale Davis.

Avatars are distracting, but I think this neutral, bare bones site will promote an understated approach from most posters. Real GM is louder (and younger).

Kam - why is the Answerman so addicted to ultimateknicks? That's bizarre.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 27, 2007, 02:05:47 PM
Of course, the first poster to come with an avatar of John Starks, Mark Jackson or Clyde Frazier will earn the adulation of posters, despite what is presently being avowed.

---

The Rockets have quite a bit of pressure on them for game 4. And the Mavs and especially the Heat are under the gun today. I think all three will prevail. I also like the Raps over the Nets tonight.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 02:12:10 PM
I hope everyone realises I was kidding when I suggested hiring Carlisle and trading for JO, Ron Ron, and Tinsley and then signing Dale Davis.

Avatars are distracting, but I think this neutral, bare bones site will promote an understated approach from most posters. Real GM is louder (and younger).

Kam - why is the Answerman so addicted to ultimateknicks? That's bizarre.

That board is full of cynics and haters.  Earl is a missionary.  He is trying to convert them.  Fighting the good fight, you know?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 02:14:01 PM
Put it this way:

Earl is to UltimateKnicks as Kidcarter was to the NYTimes.  The one everyone else can't stand and thinks is crazy.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on April 27, 2007, 03:08:19 PM
Crazy Earl, we could all log on to ultimateknicks and still not shift the balance of some of the foolishness that goes on there.

I read it and I realize where djsun gets all his material.  Its not like they don't know bball.  They are just so convinced that things can't get better.  This team has reached its ceiling...until it does better the next year. 

They rant about the injustice of being New Yorkers and not having a top team, then turn around and defend Layden for not being such a bad GM.

Earl can have 'em.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 27, 2007, 03:11:45 PM
I miss The New York Times Forum.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on April 27, 2007, 03:23:06 PM
That board is full of cynics and haters. 


In the past I’ve been guilty of that myself.

For instance, I was dating a supermodel but I’d always complain about the hairs that she left in the shower drain.

She finally left and now I’m stuck with this metal chic that has a tattoo the size of a Trans Am hood decal.

(BTW:  When it comes to making out, whenever possible put on side 1 of Led Zeppelin 4.)

So I’ve made a concerted effort to see the positive side of things.

For example:

When I started the day my coffee mug had some nasty crap inside of it.  And now?  Three or four cups of coffee later and its almost completely gone.

Instead of dwelling on the fact that the Knicks haven’t won anything since the Pliocene era (or was it the Miocene), now I live in a world where the Knicks are contenders, theater floors are not sticky and Roberto Clemente’s plane lands safely every time.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on April 27, 2007, 03:44:11 PM
Crazy Earl, we could all log on to ultimateknicks and still not shift the balance of some of the foolishness that goes on there.

I read it and I realize where djsun gets all his material.  Its not like they don't know bball.  They are just so convinced that things can't get better.  This team has reached its ceiling...until it does better the next year. 

They rant about the injustice of being New Yorkers and not having a top team, then turn around and defend Layden for not being such a bad GM.

Earl can have 'em.

Yeah, It's like dealing with folks who take giant swigs of the kool-aid. Willing to jump through all sorts of hoops not place ANY blame at the feet of the GM/coach.  No matter how evidence there is to the contrary.

I can see how'd that'd be frustrating.





C'mon!  Now y'all know I wasn't talking about any of you!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2007, 02:18:24 AM
For the avatar adverse, you can customize your experience to block all avatars.
Just click on PROFILE, then select "Look and Layout Preferences" on the left hand side.
Scroll down a bit and there are boxes to check to block avatars, signatures, and other things.
I find the big blocky signatures to be distracting (especially as they are repeated with every post), and went ahead and blocked those.

Now if I can just figure out how to stop the site from tallying and informing me of the total time I've spent logged in, things'll be pretty spiffy.
Do we have an ignore feature here?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bosox18d on April 28, 2007, 03:10:14 AM
Click on Profile,then personal message options and you get ignore for other posters just like the old NYTimes forums.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2007, 09:18:06 AM
Click on Profile,then personal message options and you get ignore for other posters just like the old NYTimes forums.
That seems to be just to block Messages from specific users.
Though I appreciate the response.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2007, 09:59:31 AM
From SI:
Quote
The Kings never have had an identity as a strong defensive team, but the bottom fell out this season. Sacramento didn't defend any one (allowing 103.1 ppg, seventh worst in the league), and didn't rebound (last in the NBA).

So the Artest supporters have to explain how Ron Artest is going to transform the Knicks into a good defensive team.

Kings have similar personnel, with Mike Bibby and Kevin Martin, not too different than our one-way backcourt.  Though this year's Marbs was a better defender than Bibby.  They have Brad Miller, a more physical player and better defender than Curry.  And SAR/Kenny Thomas are not terrible defenders. 

Maybe Artest can shut down a star wing.  But we got killed on the perimeter and by speedy points.  Not sure Artest helps much there.  And we had no weak side shotblocker intimidator, again an area where Artest would have only limited presence. 

You can point to chemistry and the magic of Isiah, but alot of the chemistry problems in Sacto was Artest.  Especially his insistence on getting as many shots as Bibby and Martin.  Isiah is coach and GM, not sure he has time to be Artest's buddy/next-door neighbor/father-figure/counselor as he took on with Marbury when he first came aboard.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 28, 2007, 11:49:40 AM
Quote
So the Artest supporters have to explain how Ron Artest is going to transform the Knicks into a good defensive team

Marbs and Collins make for a pretty good defensive back court shift capable of playing pretty heavy minutes and providing proportional offence from their possitions. Q and Balkman also provide good wing defence though they are limited by durability and offensive production respectively. To get as much D as we need from them with our current line up you wind up running Q into the ground in his case or surrounding Balkman with offensive players (read jumpshooters) who on our roster don't defend (Crawford and Frye). Artest would give us our best wing defender who could log heavy minutes while providing offense, shift down to the PF against the Jamisons and Marions getting us extra possessions with steals rather than blocks. Curry generally outscores the opposing center rotation (not just the starter) his problem is providing help which is less of a problem if the players on the perimeter can contain their men. Everyone but Curry and marbs mentioned here boards above their possition add Lee to this equation (though his possitional D is suspect) and we cover the defensive glass as well as anyone. This alone would improve things though not enough to make us a very good defensive team. Major offseason progress on D from our front court players would be needed to take us to that level along with one more defensive guard.

On the flipside, Ron does bring chemistry problems and these are not just lockerroom and legal issues. I remember reading complaints about him in SAC this season hogging the ball breaking plays and freelancing, killing on court chemistry. So I want him only if Isiah is confident he can get through to him and check or redirect these tendencies and if we can send off our players who break our offence in the trade or in complimentary moves (Craw, Frye, Jefferies and Francis)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 28, 2007, 02:16:40 PM
Ron's behavior clearly a coaching thing.  I don't think he steps out of line on Thomas.

Maybe the Freddie Weis thing works out and Ron becomes a Knick AFTER a needed epiphany.

We still own Freddie, right?  :)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 28, 2007, 11:52:48 PM
Clearly Artest would be a distraction in NY.
New York media would be all over his many dumb pronouncements.
Last I heard Ron said he was going to retire or play in Europe anyway.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 29, 2007, 10:04:25 PM
Anybody remember those long running Nash/Kidd v. Starbury arguments........?

Anybody remember those Paxson/Thorn v. Thomas GM arguments........................?

oof


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on April 29, 2007, 11:20:46 PM
This team will improve with the maturation of Collins, Lee, and Balkman..........but I believe that for any major improvement next year we need 1 solid trade. Either we need a dead eye shooter or shot blocker underneath. And with all the players, addition by subtraction is necessary. Francis can score but not the type of player that works well with these Knicks. So what Thomas is saying is a smoke screen simply to keep the price down, who would say we are desperate and need a trade?

And as bad as the injuries were, they ultimately upped the trading value of a lot of late draft picks....We need to thin the herd and we need 1 better player, I think we can accomplish this in a wash contractually so that Dolan pulls the trigger. Heck, Larry Johnson should be coming off the cap soon, no?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on April 30, 2007, 01:15:42 AM
Either we need a dead eye shooter or shot blocker underneath

Shot blocking is overrated that's why Chicago as if they need it are picking number 9 in the juiciest draft in Memory. And don't you forget it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2007, 01:26:49 AM
Quote
.but I believe that for any major improvement next year we need 1 solid trade.
Either we need a dead eye shooter or shot blocker underneath
Well, I'd say that'd make two players we need. 
Hmm, a shotblocker and a shooter?
I've got it!
Raef LaFrentz!
And he'd blend right in with our highly paid Knicks.
These days a guy making say $4M or $6M feels out of place on the Knicks, as he just can't keep up.

One trade gets us into the playoff race.
Two trades, if done right, get us into the playoffs.
We've got enough greenery, we need to see if Isiah and his minions can acquire the requisite vets.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 30, 2007, 08:56:15 AM
Wow all these teams getting swept in the playoffs Im thinking summertime there may be a lot of yard sales going on.  Chicago looked awesome against Miaimi but the heat is an older team that plays poor perimeter defense and did all year and that was the one team that was a bad matchup for them.  Mark my words CHi-town is dead in the next round because jumpshooting teams always implode. Here's my trade for the day  Steve Franchise and Channing Frye( I only use Frye because he's one of our most tradeable assets) to the clippers for (guess who) Tim Thomas, Correy Maggete and Aaron williams Why do they do it to get rid of Maggette who's been a cancer in the lockerroom. Here's one you may or may not like We trade Malik Rose, N8 Robinson,Jamal Crawford and David Lee to seattle for Chris Wilcox, Earl Watson and Damien wilkins why do they do it to save money in the long haul.

New lineup for 2007-2008
goes as follow

PG Steph
SG Maggette
SF Thomas
PF  Wilcox
C.  Curry


Second unit

PG Mardy
SG Wilkens
SF Q
PF Jeffries or Randolph
C  Randolph or JJames


Title: ron
Post by: Zupey on April 30, 2007, 08:57:03 AM
I have similar feeling re artest as I did with Spree. There is something I realy like about redemption (and I'm not a christ follower...) and I think this was ment to be from day one. Spree was transformed in NYC. So will Ronron. BTW- my first post after leaving the NYT


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on April 30, 2007, 11:21:52 AM
Two types of guys kill us. Camp out 3 point shooters a la Carrol or Kapono, which needs to be fixed by obsessive work on defensive rotation AS A TEAM. There is no player trade that will solve this. The other is tweener forwards playing the 4 Marion, Jamison, Harrington, Odom, Deng, Nocioni, guys who can take our 4s outside to shoot or put it on the floor. We have nobody on the roster that matches up with this kind of player. Ron matches up perfectly with these guys as well as giving hell to the Pierces and G Wallaces of the league.

GS and Dallas is a thing of Beauty. I actually found myself pulling for the Bullies against the Heat. How pretty would GS and Phoenix be in the next round?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 30, 2007, 01:01:03 PM
If Raef were heathy, he sure would help.

Not that there are minutes available. 

Quandary:

Bad team, yet most minutes for next season already spoken for.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 30, 2007, 01:37:58 PM
You guys need to read between the lines...Q is a liabilty!

Kam, So Ron Artest has 2 strikes in your book. So what? If you knew basketball really you would be a millionaire not a forum contributor...   Ron artest is widely respected for his tough play league wide...his problems stem from a one in a lifetime fight in the stands and a town and City, Ron Ron and his family did not blend well with...Ron offered to retire if he couldnt get traded out of Sacremento.... if the Knicks listen to morons like you they would get chior boys like Frye instead of studs like artest....

Grow some hair on your chest...


More on Q --- who will retire soon in my book.

DALLAS - It's been clear since last week the Knicks would not get Quentin Richardson back. But the agent denied he was headed for back surgery. Apparently, the latest developments only transpired yesterday when swingman Quentin Richardson consulted with a . Miami doctor who read all the MRIs and C-scans and decided he should have disk surgery at once

For scheduling reasons, Quentin underwent disk surgery immediately yesterday in Miami that will put him out for the season but the club expects him to resume his career next year and be back for training camp ready to roll.

Isiah told us this morning they've known all along since the trade that Richardson would eventually have to have disk surgery, but they went through with the Kurt Thomas trade anyway. Quentin hadn't talked to us for nearly two weeks, which was a clear sign he wasn't returning.

Richardson, 27, whose contract is not insured against a career-ending back injury, has missed the last seven games with a chronic disk problem and it was reported last week he could be out for the season.

"It's season-ending but not career-ending,'' Thomas said.

The Richardson trade was a risk they were willing to take. They gave up Kurt Thomas in exchange for Richardson and the rights to Nate Robinson, a late add when the Knicks discovered his contract was not insured for back trouble.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 30, 2007, 01:59:41 PM
If the knicks get Ron Artest I see the line up looking like this.

Curry C
Lee PF
Artest SF
Crwaford SG
Marbury PG

Nate bench
Balkman bench
Collins bench
Jeffies bench
Frye bench
JJames bench
New Rookie... bench

How they match up with NJ - Ron and lee grab 25 rebounds a game
Ron takes the fear out of Curry and makes him play hard...vs the Mikki Moores of the league...When guys like More and Kidd get all up in Curry or Lee or Fryes face Ron will be there to say back off or deal with me....

Teams dont want it with Artest...

vs Raptors...Ron shuts down Bosh...

vs Millwaukee Ron shuts down all of that..

vs Boston we make a major leap...The Celtics have nothing for Ron..He scores at will..If the Boston Center comes out to him we pass to Curry...

Ron makes the Knicks better instantly...from a toughness perspective as well as he will add 15 pts and 12 rebounds a game...

Let admit it....The Knicks had a problem with backing down and quitting vs tough teams..  withRon there to show them there is nothing to be afraid of...The knicks will benefit from Rons fearlessness...  Look at Stephen Jackson?  Illtake a guy with tremendous talent and courage anyday of a guy with great potential...but hasnt proved his worth yet...Thats the problem with basketball today too may Sunday GMs...and this attitude of lets clean up the NBA...is so stupid...

Its a contact sport for Christs sakes...Let them Play...I know Shaq is ready to retire when he cant even use his tremendous gurth to get an inside basket...and skinny guys like Bosh are treated as super stars...

In NY we demand a certain amout of defense....When we need a stop we need a stop!  if the players cant produce a decent defensive stop at crunch time...Isiah will never get to the playoffs.

Knicks do not listen to these guys that do not play basketball....for they dont know what the hell they are talking about...Ron Artest is great, Randy Moss is great, Stephen Jackson is great, Latrell was great until they blackballed him for saying he wouldnt take any money under his standards...

admit it?  it was a sin for Spree (who a defense lacking team could have used) had to sit out the whole season.  Imagine after taking the Knicks on his back and bringing them to the finals (along with Houston and Camby) he does not have ajob..

If that same fate awaits Ron Artest because of Playa hatas like Kam it will be the end of the real NBA and I will resort to watching College basketball only...untel Stern is removed.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 30, 2007, 02:43:46 PM
Connect thats a great point Stern is turning the nba into the wnba a real sissy sport even the calls now don't make sense I see so many flops its ridiculous.  I swear the refs dictate who win the game and I bet that old ref who was fired protested or something and stern got him band from america.
I wish we could get Artest that would be great and also Chris Wilcox is on top my list of PF to go after, or even Haslem as Miami will be given players away knowing Riley one bad year he'll blow up the whole team and start from scratch.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2007, 02:46:44 PM
Yo connectivity, stop with the insults.  If you had READ my post you would not react that way.  And on the real, don't question my bball intelligence by bringing up the argument i'd be a millionaire and not on this forum, when you're just another chump with an opinion on this forum.

Now if you really have any hair on your chest, then man up and accept that you were dead wrong on my opinion with artest.  I want him if he is there to be had.  I don't want to spend too much to get him.  If you don't respect the opinion of others what are you doing on a discussion board?

Take your anger to RealGm.

If Artest can be had for Jerome James or Jared Jeffries.... or to a lessser extent Quentin Richardson or Malik Rose then count me in.  In other words, if SAC is desperate to dump him for something and we're the only suitor...

Because Ron could be out of the league.  He already has a 73 game suspension.  NBA likes to give bigger suspensions the more trouble a player gets into. So whats next? A two-year BAN the next time Ron does something crazy?

So i'm all in favor of Ron for my undesirables.  Sure... why not.

But nothing of value must go.  Didn't we learn from the Ariza trade?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 30, 2007, 02:48:00 PM
Jaqd - if the NBA really is moving towards (or has already moved towards) an era with less contact and less physical defense, than Artest loses considerable value. His calling card is his hard-nosed perimeter D. On offense, he disrupts the offense too much by holding the ball and shooting out of turn, somewhat negating his positive contributions on that end. In that sense, he's another Steve Francis on offense.

BoDiddley - I don't get your fascination with Bonzi Wells. He's been despised by almost every coach who's had him, and he's now been run out of Portland, Memphis, and Houston unceremoniously. He's a powerful player with (sometimes) impressive stats, but I'd suggest the overall impact he has on a team is negative.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on April 30, 2007, 02:51:22 PM
"Let admit it....The Knicks had a problem with backing down and quitting vs tough teams..  "

That was not at all our a problem for the Knicks. Rather, the boys failed have a professional enough attitude to bring it all game, every game, irrespective of the opponent (as we lost too many games to the leagues less-talented teams) or the game context (as we started many games in a lethargic fashion only to make a furious comeback that often, though not always, fell short).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 30, 2007, 03:29:30 PM
Kam

Talk to the hand as my little one says...

The knicks need defense...

Question for you Mr GM...

If not Ron Artest defensivewise then who?

Wilcox is not going anywhere but las Vegas...Bonzi Wells is decent but not really needed...  Webber is a stud but will be back in Detroit, Garnett will not be leaving the Twolves...

get me a better answer than ...I know the Knicks need defense but ....I dont perticulately like Ron Artest cuz he has had a fight and doesnot feed his dog...

What about how he manhandled Detroit to the point that Ben Wallace wanted to fight.... How would you like being traded to Sacremento?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on April 30, 2007, 03:31:17 PM
I never heard that Artest disrupts the offense okay maybe once or twice but what I've heard is he wanted to be featured in the offense sometimes somewhat the way Isaih would utilized Q Rich in the post and if it was effective Isaih would feature you until they found an answer.  Plus what I've noticed is barring Frye and Steph Isaihs offense played to the players strength to get the most out of that player. He wanted Steph to be his point guard and freelance when the game dictated it. I think Artest would have same freedom as long as Curry gets his touvhes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2007, 03:40:17 PM
Way back in the late 20th Century, Bonzi and Shawn Marion caught my eye and became favorite players from their rookie years on (1998 and 1999 respectively).  To me, Marion initially seemed to be the next James Worthy, while Bonzi was like a smaller Terry Cummings.  I just thought that Bonzi had tremendous talent, strong enough to post smaller guards, while quick enough to drive past bigger guards.  Last season's playoff series against the Spurs is indicative of what Bonzi could've/should've been doing his whole career.  Careerwise, he did have a knee injury and got caught up with the Jailblazers antics.  But basically he wasn't mature enough and never had his head screwed on properly to take full advantage of his ability.  A shame.  It's hard to get too enthused about Bonzi at the moment, but I'd call it a buy-low moment.  Rockets got him on a cheap one year deal.  We could get the same.  If he's a distraction than you just trade him or buy him out.

DisConnect, who averaged more rebounds last season Artest or Curry?

Btw, Marion is one of the reasons we didn't draft Artest.  Artest bagged out on a couple of workouts scheduled against Marion, who had killed him in an earlier workout.  Word got around that Artest was ducking/afraid of another draftee, and GM's questioned Artest's toughness.  Not that Freddie Weis looked tough, but Artest's stock dropped due to Marion.  (At that time of course noone knew that Marion would be a perennial all-star, one of the best athletes in the league, and a complete stud).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2007, 03:56:45 PM
Darius Rice with 52 points (and 11 of 19 on 3's) in a championship game.  Don't care if it's D-League or Z-League, that should get him a camp invite.  Maybe we should take a look.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 30, 2007, 04:11:15 PM
bodiddley

I would say Ron could outrebound Curry anyday of the week.. 
But like most situations if your not happy playing where you are your numbers will slip.

When the Knicks got curry ...he was a fire sale...nobody wanted an overweight Center that could not take too much exersize due to a heart condition.

And nobody wanted Q Rich due to the fact no Insurance on his badly injured back.

Those are two players that will not be traded due to the fact no team in there right mind besides a desparate team (like the Knicks at the time)would want or need them.

if Curry was such a good rebounder how come Lee a Rookie out rebounds him every game?  We need at least ONE All Star and Ron Artest was an All Star not too long ago.  And dont give me...Curry or Lee will be an All Star next season cuz we dont know...   I bet there are a lot of teams out there that would love to steal Ron Artest.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on April 30, 2007, 04:18:28 PM
Darius Rice with 52 points (and 11 of 19 on 3's) in a championship game

I was saying the same exact thing when I saw those stats in the paper this morning...

We could use a hungry guy that can space the floor...Riley had no problemo with bringing in a D-Leaguer....ie Starks...Mason..and they worked out pretty well.

The balls goes into Curry who is double teamed...he gives to Artest who drives see player waiting to take the charge and  dishes to marbury who drives the lane...he is quickly doubled an kicks out to Darius Rice who nails the 3.

Interesting....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2007, 04:50:24 PM
I love Ron Artests game.  The fact is RonRons next NBA-infraction could get him suspended for life.  That doesn't make me a hater, that makes me risk-averse.  We already have longterm $$$ allocated to the Q-risk (back), and the E-risk (heart).

If we can dump some bad contracts (Pick a JJ any JJ) and take Ron off Sacto's hands then fine.  If the price the Maloofs want is too high, then i say **** 'em.  We'll use our resources elsewhere.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on April 30, 2007, 05:46:27 PM
Go Nellie

Even if his Warriors can't finish off the Mavs. That's a coach. And he could  be our coach and the Knicks a Championship team if not for the turd JVG manipulating things to get Nelson fired and himsefl promoted.

Well, water under the bridge... Go Knicks!!!

On the RonRon thing, I'm with Kam. I think we can get him without giving up too much. And I want us to keep Lee in any case.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 30, 2007, 06:58:02 PM
ARTEST is dirt cheap ($$) the next 2 seasons.  NO way he comes cheaply in swap, if only for the reason that SAC knows the value you are getting.

A Randy Moss moment (get the f**k outahere trade) you will not see.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on April 30, 2007, 09:23:26 PM
ARTEST is dirt cheap ($$) the next 2 seasons.  NO way he comes cheaply in swap, if only for the reason that SAC knows the value you are getting.

A Randy Moss moment (get the f**k outahere trade) you will not see.

We have plenty of youth to develop.  I'd trade a JJ, Frye andOR Nate, and our 23 pick.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on April 30, 2007, 11:27:40 PM
Connect, my point is that Artest is not a major rebounder.  Nor should he be.  Playing the 3 primarily, Artest is defending more away from the basket.  For a 3, Artest rebounds well, and can grab a board in traffic, but mostly you need your interior players doing the boardwork.  Q is a very good rebounding wing player as well.  Of course we are already a strong rebounding team. 

Basically I'm with Kam.  If Artest comes cheaply enough, then okay.  When Indy was conducting a Ron-Ron fire sale, I was a big advocate of getting him on the cheap.  Now that he's messed up in Sacto, I'm a lot less enthusiastic.  Besides, it seems that all of our defenders (Q, Jeffries, Balk) play the same position.  I'd be more interested in getting a defensive 4 or 2.  Though we could get Artest, try to move Jeffries, and switch Q mostly to the 2.

As for spacing and 3-point shooting, I'm right there with you.  Right now our perimeter shooters are our ballhandlers.  A spot-up 3-point shooter would help open things up and help cut down on turnovers.

Chuck Hayes Watch: took a charge with 13 seconds left and Houston up by 2, securing the win.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 01, 2007, 12:13:33 AM
Ya'll know my feelings on Artest which is basically I'm on Board for the right price. Did any one see the passing by Kerilinko against Houston during Utah's little run tonight?

Here's a two mover to thin the heard.
Jefferies and Crawford for AK. Almost a dollar for dolar match.
Malik and Frye for Artest.

Curry
AK
Artest
Collins
Marbury

Lee
Balkman
Q
N8

I'd also throw in Morris for either Douby or a S&T CJ Miles. And sign Elton Brown out of the D league


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 01, 2007, 10:23:08 AM
"When the Knicks got curry ...he was a fire sale..."

hahaha. Two unprotected lottery picks!


Title: RonRon
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 01, 2007, 10:28:58 AM
As I've said before (and kid has also said it recently) - if Isiah thinks he can tame Ron Ron, and he'll know if he can, he will acquire him. If Isiah has reservations, than I don't think he will incur that risk (and nor would I want him to). I don't think Zeke is as desparate as he has been in the past. I trust Zeke more on this one than on any other player in the league.

Bo - I know you have a fascination with Chuck Hayes. I love his game as well, and see some of Renaldo and JJ Slim in Hayes; although the latter is more rugged and strictly an interior player, there is a similar level of grit and intensity. Hayes was a bit of a champ at Kentucky too, carrying one of the weaker Wildcat teams of recent years.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 01, 2007, 10:31:12 AM
Who would you rather have Curry or Tyrus Thomas?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 01, 2007, 10:35:10 AM
We also gave up our pick this year.

If it's the #9 pick and Corey Brewer and Al Horford are off the table, I'll take Curry. But my issue is more that we were the only bidders and we still gave up unprotected picks. Noone in the NBA does that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 01, 2007, 10:35:17 AM
It's not just Tyrus Thomas, it's Tryus Thomas plus whoever they get in this draft.  Which is dhaping up to be a VERY good draft btw.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 01, 2007, 11:18:30 AM
Very rare that anything gets to #9 even in a good draft but we'll see.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2007, 01:24:42 PM
We also gave up our pick this year.

If it's the #9 pick and Corey Brewer and Al Horford are off the table, I'll take Curry. But my issue is more that we were the only bidders and we still gave up unprotected picks. Noone in the NBA does that.

and TT - and Sweetney


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 01, 2007, 01:27:26 PM
I hear Isiah was seen lunching very happily with Tyra banks recently....when they left the resturant Tyra jumped behind the wheel of Isiahs truck and drove them away, Isiah laughing it up all the while...

Isnt isiah married?  This dude is getting more girls than me...Im mad.

Anyway jamal should have his share of babes this summer...

as well as david Lee and Q.

I wonder if Clyde will be teaching Collins the famous headfake make body contact and bank in the short jumper that made him famous....

I know he will be getting him to the line more...for in the act of shooting fouls...I heard Clyde remark that Collins needs to throw it up there once the opponant makes contact..to get to the line more.

The Spurs vs Suns series should be a doosey...

Duncan is looking real strong these days...perhaps the best Big man in basketball...

Anyone disagree?  Shaqs done...Howard in Orlando is big and strong but green...

Garnett has slowed...Dirk is flappable....

Amare Stoudlemier is the only guy out there ready to take the challenge...

(I personally like Amare but I dont think he is strong enough after coming back from the injury) Duncan blocked his shot in the last meeting...

xfactors....Nash...Matrix and the brazilian blur....barbosa.  (raja) diaw.

the Spurs are not bad either..

It will take year before the knicks will have the poise to beat a San Antonio in the playoffs no matter who they get!  ask Denver.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 01, 2007, 01:32:48 PM
Wheres lesterdog at?  My patriots picked up Terrell Owens....If he is serious, him and Tom Brady should hook up for a lot of touch downs...

I bet lester is a Jet fan right? 

any way stick a fork in the Yanks this year...done.

Lebron is still one pace to be the next Micheal Jordan,,,

He makes it look easy doesnt he?

Sublymenal lebron clockwork orange commercial.... Fantastic....

SNAP! lester dog wake up...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2007, 01:47:22 PM
I hear Isiah was seen lunching very happily with Tyra banks recently....when they left the resturant Tyra jumped behind the wheel of Isiahs truck and drove them away, Isiah laughing it up all the while...

Isnt isiah married?  This dude is getting more girls than me...Im mad.

Anyway jamal should have his share of babes this summer...

as well as david Lee and Q.

I wonder if Clyde will be teaching Collins the famous headfake make body contact and bank in the short jumper that made him famous....

I know he will be getting him to the line more...for in the act of shooting fouls...I heard Clyde remark that Collins needs to throw it up there once the opponant makes contact..to get to the line more.

The Spurs vs Suns series should be a doosey...

Duncan is looking real strong these days...perhaps the best Big man in basketball...

Anyone disagree?  Shaqs done...Howard in Orlando is big and strong but green...

Garnett has slowed...Dirk is flappable....

Amare Stoudlemier is the only guy out there ready to take the challenge...

(I personally like Amare but I dont think he is strong enough after coming back from the injury) Duncan blocked his shot in the last meeting...

xfactors....Nash...Matrix and the brazilian blur....barbosa.  (raja) diaw.

the Spurs are not bad either..

It will take year before the knicks will have the poise to beat a San Antonio in the playoffs no matter who they get!  ask Denver.

Forgot the big Chinaman


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 01, 2007, 02:18:40 PM
Did you say that I forgot Yao Ming?

Boozer abused Yao so badly last night that I thought he was going to give up for a minute...Boozer was using Yao like I would use lesterdog...

If it wasnt for McGrady putting Houston on his back they would have surely taken a loss.

Yao is over rated...he really should work on his upper body strength...

He is just too weak to get it up...

I would have yao doing pushups the entire off season...as well chasing chickens (an old boxing technique that makes you quicker on your feet)

versus a big body, one on one like Shaq. Yao is ok, but vs smaller quicker guys...yao is just another big stiff that can shoot foul shots.



Title: Dogs
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 01, 2007, 03:39:53 PM
It's so hard to believe in an underdog that I'm still hesitant to predict that the Warriors will beat the Mavericks. This despite the fact that everything that has happened this season (especially this second season) would suggest Bay City will roll. There is so much pressure on Dallas tonight. It will be interesting to see how the first few minutes play out, and also how the Mavs respond if the game is close with 3 minutes to go.

I think there is a lot of pressure on Houston to not choke in game 6 (and then game 7).

I think there is some pressure on Phoenix tonight, but I'm not worried about them.

I think Denver needs a bench.

I think Cleveland needs some offensive creativity in the next round.

I think Toronto needs an injury or two for their opponents.

I think Chicago is probably upset at the rest Detroit is getting - Chicago is young and hot, both of which would miltiate towards short, not long rests. Detroit is creeky and just finished an uninspiring series.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2007, 03:47:20 PM
Did you say that I forgot Yao Ming?

Boozer abused Yao so badly last night that I thought he was going to give up for a minute...Boozer was using Yao like I would use lesterdog...

If it wasnt for McGrady putting Houston on his back they would have surely taken a loss.

Yao is over rated...he really should work on his upper body strength...

He is just too weak to get it up...

I would have yao doing pushups the entire off season...as well chasing chickens (an old boxing technique that makes you quicker on your feet)

versus a big body, one on one like Shaq. Yao is ok, but vs smaller quicker guys...yao is just another big stiff that can shoot foul shots.



Yeah - nice win by UTAH - :)

But you might recall I promoted Boozer like no other, so I am glad he has performed well.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 01, 2007, 03:52:19 PM
Yao at 24 and 12 this series

Timmy at 19 and 10

We'll keep an eye on it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 01, 2007, 04:09:56 PM
Wall Street Journal on Don Nelson vs. Mark Cuban

May 1, 2007 12:08 PM


Peter Waldman of the Wall Street Journal reports that the relationship between the coach and his former boss is extremely bitter.

The crux of it is their legal wrangling: as has been reported, Don Nelson and his lawyers say Mark Cuban and the Mavericks still owe Nelson some $6.6 million. When Nelson signed his original contract with the Mavericks, before Cuban owned the team, he agreed to help the team's cash-flow by taking a chunk of his pay later. Now he'd like that money, but Cuban feels Nelson quit on the team, and isn't inclined to give it to him. Lawyers are on the case, and at some point it will likely go to arbitration.

It's not just about money, though. It's also about style, personality, and judgment. Waldman relates an anecdote (subscription required):

But just as the Nelson-Cuban revival was peaking -- in the NBA's 2003 Western Conference finals -- it started to fall apart. With the Mavericks facing elimination by the San Antonio Spurs, the coach and owner exploded at each other over Mr. Nelson's refusal to fulfill his boss's wish to play an injured Mr. Nowitzki, according to Mavericks officials close to the team's owner.

Mr. Nowitzki had suffered sprained ligaments in his left knee in the third game of the best-of-seven series, but, with the Mavericks trailing three games to one, was cleared by team doctors to play again. Mr. Cuban confronted Mr. Nelson in the coach's office and demanded the star forward return to the court, Mavericks officials say.

Mr. Nelson refused, insisting that playing the young German with the ligament injury would jeopardize his career. The coach also confided in friends that he had promised Mr. Nowitzki's parents, when the Mavericks signed the young man at age 19, that he would look after the seven-footer in Texas like a son.

"You're just looking for excuses to lose," fumed Mr. Cuban, according to two people who heard the blowup. Mr. Nelson threw the Mavs' owner out of his office, these people say.

There's another angle too. Reportedly Nelson's Golden State contract is set up so that he currently makes less than what he would have made by staying in Dallas. But if the Warriors do beat the Mavericks, Nelson will essentially make up the difference with a bonus.

Should be a good game.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 01, 2007, 11:54:29 PM
Okur has done a real nice job D-ing up on Yao.  He keeps Yao 10 feet plus from the basket (usually) and then when Yao gets the ball his only real move is the face up jumper.  Yao has a slight hitch in his shot, which usually doesn't matter when shooting over smaller players.  But Okur is taking advantage of it to get his hand on the ball.  Okur has managed to block about 2 or 3 of Yao's jumpers per game. 

Tough match-ups for Yao.  He can't guard Okur out to the 3 point line (and you don't want Yao that far away from the basket anyway).  And Boozer is a tough cover because he is relatively quick and has been making his jumpers (except for last game).   Still Yao is getting his.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2007, 12:59:31 AM
Great second-half by Golden State, only to lose their poise down the stretch.
In a very close 4th Q, GS suddenly ripped a 9 point lead with 2 1/2 minutes left.  Then they gave up two 3-pointers to Dirk (okay that can happen) and a drive by Devin Harris that got an And1 which he missed.  But up by 1 with 1 1/2 minutes left, the Warriors went away from their passing and ball movement which got them on the brink of winning.  Instead, they go one-on-one with Richardson and then Stephen Jackson both missing tough jumpers.

Then they really lost their poise, with rushed shots, Baron Davis fouling out on an intentional foul on Dirk, fouling Dirk instead of other poor free throw shooters, Matt Barnes dropping a rebound out of bounds after a Josh Howard missed free throw, etc.  Finally culminating in Stephen Jackson pushing Dirk over on a rebound and then getting a tech for clapping and carrying on. 

Btw, Matty Barnes had a superb game, despite the botched rebound and a poor defensive rotation.  Excellent 3-point shooting from both teams.
But the Warriors had a fine chance to close things out.  Up by 9, they should have employed the let-anyone-but-Dirk-beat-you philosophy, and not allowed 3-pointers.
But they are an offensive team, and not great defenders.  So I'd argue that it was really a few wasted late offensive possessions that allowed Dallas to win. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2007, 02:01:50 AM
Very rare that anything gets to #9 even in a good draft but we'll see.

For the last 6 drafts (I arbitrarily started at 2001), there has been an all-star level player either picked at #9 or available at #10 in 4 of the past 6 drafts.

  • 2001 - Joe Johnson @ #10
    2002 - Amare @ #9; Caron Butler @ #10
    2003 - _________
    2004 - Andre Iguodala @ #9
    2005 - Bynum @ #10
    2006 - _________

It's hard to evaluate Bynum yet as he's just 19.  But he projects out as an above-average starting center, with all-star potential.   

Here's a look at Number 9 and beyond over the last 6 drafts:

2001 Draft
(aka the High School draft w/ Eddy Curry @ 4)
#9 Rodney White
[# 10 Joe Johnson; #13 RJ; #19 Zach; #25 Gerald Wallace; #27 Tinsley; #28 Parker ...  #31 Agent 0]

2002 Draft
#9 Amare Stoudamire
[#10 Caron Butler; #23 Tayshaun Prince;; #24 Nenad Kristic ...  #35 Boozer]

2003 Draft
#9  Mike Sweetney
This year, the talent really dropped off steeply right after #8.
[#18 David West; #23 Boris Diaw; #28 Barbosa; #29 Josh Howard

2004 Draft
#9 Andre Iguodala
[#15 Al Jefferson; #17 Josh Smith; #24 Delonte West; #26 Kevin Martin; #31 Varejao]

2005 Draft
#9 Ike Diogu
[#10 Andrew Bynum; #17 Danny Granger; 18 Gerald Green; + Warrick; Jack; Head, D. Lee]

2006 Draft
#9 Patrick O'Bryant
# 10 Saer Sene
[#13 Thabo Sefolosha; + Douby, Sergio Rodriguez; Rondo, Marcus Williams]

So, besides just the actual Top Ten picks, there are always 3-5 other top players in the remaining first round picks.   And during that 6 year stretch, Arenas, Boozer, and Okur all went in the second round.

The Sweetney draft in 2003 was one of the most top-heavy and thinnest.  The 2006 draft looks pretty weak right now, though someone will undoubtedly break out over the next few years.  Though I don't expect it to be Pat O'Bryant or Sene ... but who knows. 

In the deep 2001 draft, there were 6 all-stars in the next 22 picks (after #9) -- roughly a 30% chance of blindly picking an all-star at #9 -- plus starters such as Tinsley, Troy Murphy, and Dalembert.  If this draft approaches that level, and having had draft guru Isiah doing the pickings, then ....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2007, 02:23:54 AM
Igoudala 2004 and Marion 1999 were #9 in two very deep top-heavy drafts. 
Amare McGrady and Nowitski are other examples of great uses of the #9.

But outside of those guys there are few true luminaries found at the 9 spot since 1991

Joel Pryzbilla
Samaki Walker
Mike Sweetney
Rodney White
Patrick O'Bryant
Clarence Weatherspoon
Ed O'Banon
Eric Montross
Rodney Rogers
Ike Diogu

So... about a 33% chance the pick lands a future All-Star given recent history


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2007, 02:27:16 AM
Whats with all the PFs and project Centers taken at 9?  Nary a guard to be found.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2007, 03:06:56 AM
So not rare at all.

I think it's also useful to look at #10 picks, the guy taken next.
For instance, Rodney White turned out to be a #9 bust, but Joe Johnson went #10.
Even when an all-star went #9, such as Amare and Marion, the very next picks were Caron Butler and Jason Terry respectively.  Pretty good consolation prizes.  Kurt Thomas and Eddie Jones were nice #10's, following poor #9's.  Allan Houston and Robert Horry pretty good #11's after poor 9's and 10's, etc.

It all depends how deep the draft is, how many other teams make early mistakes, and the needs of the teams drafting.  General draft wisdom seems to be that after the blue-chips are taken, than you roll the dice with the best BIG available (usually from 8 -13, then pick the best wings left (usually 13-19), then go with little guys/point guards (19-25).  Last draft followed that general pattern.


Title: Here's an interesting article I fould posted on another forum about David Lee
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 02, 2007, 09:35:12 AM
The New York Knicks locker room looked rough to say the least with a week left in the regular season and tip-off at Continental Airlines Arena about an hour away. Seventy-eight games in the books and half the roster on the mend, one couldn't help but think past the New Jersey Nets and towards what next year could bring.

This isn't how Isiah Thomas envisioned his backcourt when he started the season. Playoff promises morphed into wounded players plight before his eyes.

Steve Francis laid on the trainer's table getting his right knee massaged while Stephon Marbury lounged on a table to Francis' right with his cell in hand, patiently waiting his turn for treatment.

Feet away, Quentin Richardson sat sporting a black pinstriped suit sans jacket thumbing buttons on his Blackberry. He was probably texting someone about his jacked-up back. Jamal Crawford, nearly healed, opted for a courtside chat with reporters complete with a Knicks' team official meticulously documenting each word in an issued held hand device provided for such paranoid occasions.

Handle with care. Slightly damaged. Whatever label you slap on it, few imagined the Knicks baron playoff dreams would play out like this, David Lee included.

Lee stood flanked by a handful of beat writers in the corner of the locker room wondering what's next for the super sophomore. He thought the same himself as he rambled about taking time to heal, not rushing things, and what the offseason would bring.

A mysterious mismanaged calf injury had kept the teams leading rebounder thinking hard. Ironing out the shady details of the ailment was the norm and a never-ending topic of conversation mixed with the usual conspiracy theory.

He returned in a meaningless game against the Portland Trailblazers stating before hand he wanted to be there for his team and it was his decision to play against doctor's wishing otherwise.

It had been eleven games since Lee was last on the court. And in an embarrassing loss to the Blazers, this year's Rookie-Sophomore game MVP wasn't exactly valuable or even much of a player. All year he averaged a double-double. But on a rainy night in late March at the Garden Lee managed to go scoreless with 5 rebounds in 10 minutes.

It would be another six games before Lee was back on the court for the Knicks this time playing 20 minutes in a loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves where he finished with 6 points, 8 rebounds, and looked gimpy running up and down the court.

Suddenly the story changed. Gone were the cliché's of being there for the team. They were replaced by following doctor's orders.

The next night would be the last game of the season in which Lee appeared. It was early April and Eddy Curry hit a memorable three-pointer in front of the Knicks bench to send the game into overtime in Milwaukee where New York eventually won. David watched from the bench after logging only two minutes and twenty-four seconds and committing a pair of turnovers.

Lee's season, which started and played out like a dream early on, finished in a painful sweaty nightmare. Speculation surrounded his injury, the timing of it, his questionable return, and how the Knicks handled the situation. Some believe Lee's crown had grown to big and tarnished around his teammates. Others say Thomas favored playing prized rookie Renaldo Balkman instead of Lee when times got hard on the boulevard. Truth is trapped somewhere in the middle.

That is the lasting memory, regardless of the Knicks' fan favorites accolades.Now Lee finds himself truly on the outside looking in.

According to a source close to the Knicks for over the last decade, Isiah Thomas may consider packaging Lee in a move to lure a true low post defender and scoring threat to play alongside Thomas' franchise cornerstone, Eddy Curry.

Lee becomes expendable considering what Balkman was able to contribute in limited minutes with intense energy that Thomas absolutely loves: 68 games averaging 4.9 points and 4.3 rebounds in 15.6 minutes per game. Those stats are parallel to what Lee did his rookie year. And Lee's success this season merely rose as the minutes on the court did as well. More important is what the dreadlocked wonder supplied nightly. It's called intangibles. They don't show up in the final boxscore but they register in the minds of the Garden faithful who still give Charles Oakley standing ovations when he's in the building for the exact some reason.

Knicks' fans eat Balkman up.

Yes, Lee is cast out of a similar mold. But considering trade value and stockpiling at the forward position in New York, Lee becomes a pawn in the Knicks offseason trading game.

Last week after the Indiana Pacers said good-bye to Rick Carlisle, the Indianapolis Star' Mike Wells wrote how Jermaine O'Neal is willing to be dealt since the franchise is obviously rebuilding. A trade scenario involving the Knicks' Jamal Crawford, Channing Frye, and Jared Jeffries was pitched in the article. The dollars work. But for Larry Bird to be truly interested in abetting Isiah Thomas, with whom a feud reportedly runs deep, the players must make sense.

David Lee included in a deal for O'Neal would surely be appetizing to the Pacers team president, regardless of the combination Thomas puts together involving other Knicks players.

The Pacers get a young hardwood hustler who loves to clean the glass and comes complete with a Midwest work ethic. And the Knicks get Jermaine O'Neal.

It's that simple, something the Knicks season was far from.

Isiah Thomas repeatedly admitted up until exit interviews were held at the Knicks' practice facility how he likes the team assembled and how he doesn't see any changes occurring this offseason besides individual growth. As much as folks around Manhattan and the surrounding boroughs would like to believe Zeke, something has to give.

Starting with Steve Francis' buyout isn't a bad idea. Moving Nate Robinson and Channing Frye should be next. And believe it or not, David Lee's time in New York might as well be added to the long list of to-do's. Acquiring a player of Jermaine O'Neal' caliber comes along sparingly, much like the Knicks' playoff appearances.

That's a long time.

If the promise land is truly the destination for Isiah Thomas and the New York Knicks, taking immediate self inventory and cleaning a corner of the house is necessary.

It just happens to be time to spring clean around David Lee's corner.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 02, 2007, 11:44:00 AM
Fascinating article, but I'm not so sure that Isiah is as down on Lee as people make him out to be.

---

Just checked out the campaign trail section of this forum. Unbelievably bad. People name-calling and absolutely nothing of substance discussed. A shame. Just out of curiosity, who do people think will win the candidacies for the Dems and the GOP? Who do they want?

Apologies if unlike the Times Forum this type of discussion is frowned upon.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 02, 2007, 11:48:03 AM
Quote
Just out of curiosity, who do people think will win the candidacies for the Dems and the GOP? Who do they want?
I think we've fairly firmly established that ngc doesn't want Clinton....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 02, 2007, 02:57:24 PM
Fascinating article, but I'm not so sure that Isiah is as down on Lee as people make him out to be.

---

Just checked out the campaign trail section of this forum. Unbelievably bad. People name-calling and absolutely nothing of substance discussed. A shame. Just out of curiosity, who do people think will win the candidacies for the Dems and the GOP? Who do they want?

Apologies if unlike the Times Forum this type of discussion is frowned upon.

Huckaby over the skirt.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2007, 03:07:54 PM

Huckaby over the skirt.

The thoughts of a full member.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 02, 2007, 07:09:47 PM

Huckaby over the skirt.

The thoughts of a full member.

LOL

I like Mike Gravel, not that he has a chance, too damn honest


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 02, 2007, 07:22:28 PM

Huckaby over the skirt.

The thoughts of a full member.

LOL

I like Mike Gravel, not that he has a chance, too damn honest

And a little old. But i agree.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 02, 2007, 11:11:08 PM
Amare picked up his 2nd foul with 5 minutes left in the 1st Q.
So in comes good old Kurt Thomas.
Buries a 16 footer from straightaway.
Gets the Nash pass from the top of the key and passes to Diaw on the baseline for a dunk.
Gets posted on the left block by Kwame Brown and blocks his shot.  Brown fouls KT on the rebound and goes to sit with two fouls.
Bynum then tries to post up Kurt and gets an offensive foul for ramming into him.
19 year old kid isn't going to trouble Kurt.
Kurt misses a jumper, than makes another.

The KT show!

Kurt in 6 1st Q minutes:
8 points on 4-5 shooting; 2 assists, 3 boards; 1 block; and a turnover while rushing the inbounds pass after a made basket.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2007, 11:45:15 AM
When the Knicks had a team worthy of going to the conf. finals every year, people in New York were not happy.  We villified Patrick Ewing even when the Knicks were winning 50-60 games a year.  "Hey big fella, take it strong to the hole, draw the foul" was the cry and when he would instead shoot those jumpers, not talk to the media much, etc... we killed him  We said the Knicks were better without him.

The Phreakin Suns have their best shot at the ring this year.  This is the year its got to happen for them.  I think they can win it all. However if they come up short again, i will really get tired of hearing them praised.  Instead i will lead the charge at how they're just another also-ran loser like the Sac Kings.

Make it to the Finals at least ONCE phx!   Damn i'm tired of hearing you being built up and winning nothing.  At least JKidd willed his inferior team to the Finals (twice).


Title: Two fouls
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 03, 2007, 12:23:50 PM
There's been some chatter on how coaches should react when stars get two fouls in the first quarter. Mitchell pulled Bosh in game 1, Raps blew a lead, and Sam gets roasted. Nellie let Baron play with 2 in game 3 (I believe), Warriors won, Nellie is proclaimed a genius. Sam pulled Bosh again on Monday night and it worked but noone said anything.

My feeling is it is better to pull the star, especially if he is guarding anyone halfway decent offensively. The temptation will be there for the opposing team to attack the player in foul-trouble with the aim of drawing yet another foul. Plus players with 2 fouls tend to be too hesitant defensively and can hurt in that way also.

Sit or play with two fouls - your thoughts?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2007, 01:37:22 PM
Centers with two fouls should go to the bench.  Otherwise the hoop is unguarded.  Wings and Forwards could be left in the game depending on their matchup.  If you're guarding Bruce Bowen and you've got a couple and your name is Kobe.. then you should probably keep playing.

Too many variables though, like the efficacy of your backup, the time remaining in the quarter, how much rest you will need for later in the game etc.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2007, 01:50:48 PM
"Full member"... I'm not too thrilled with the word choice here.  I swear i'm not doing anything icky behind the keyboard.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 03, 2007, 02:50:52 PM
"Full member"... I'm not too thrilled with the word choice here.  I swear i'm not doing anything icky behind the keyboard.

Slaving over a hot keyboard

Kamjaya, have you been perusing those Tawana Brawley websites again?

 :)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 03, 2007, 03:28:05 PM
Newbie

I still have a way to go before I match "The Horowitz of Horrible” whose LB series clogged up the NYTimes Forum like a backed up sewer line for more than a year.

Here’s an old review:

"Inspired by late avant-garde composer John Cage, the Series entitled As Dull As Possible has already been going on for 13 months - although all that has been posted so far is the sound of the author’s bellows being inflated.

In what was originally to be a 20 word post, the author decided to take the title literally and work out how long the dullest possible post could last.

He settled on 639 years because 639 is the number of Jews that the author believes were actually killed in the Holocaust."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 03, 2007, 03:54:19 PM
Slow day today huh so I'll set it off--- Kobe is a coward instead of just admitting they lost to the better team and later go talk to management about the make up of the team he blast his teammates.    I thought the lakers overachieved this year by a milestone Phil did a helluva job with that cast of misfits, how the hell he made a team out of those players is unbelievable,   but they played hard all year made the playoffs and got beaten by a better team period.  Why didn't kobe beef during the break when they had a decent record, why didn't he ask management to make a move then.  Now that the dust is cleared and he and management are starting to realize it takes more then one to make it happen now they wanna throw the supporting cast under the bus.  I love Isaihs style he  keeps all his dirty laudry in house which is exactly why the media hates him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 03, 2007, 04:18:33 PM
The off-season should be crazier than ever.  Miami has to make a move, LA has to make a move.  If Dallas is bounced by GS (although i think that ship has sailed on nellie's crew)-- THEY too might make a move.

I love it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 03, 2007, 05:15:10 PM
Slow day today huh so I'll set it off--- Kobe is a coward instead of just admitting they lost to the better team and later go talk to management about the make up of the team he blast his teammates.    I thought the lakers overachieved this year by a milestone Phil did a helluva job with that cast of misfits, how the hell he made a team out of those players is unbelievable,   but they played hard all year made the playoffs and got beaten by a better team period.  Why didn't kobe beef during the break when they had a decent record, why didn't he ask management to make a move then.  Now that the dust is cleared and he and management are starting to realize it takes more then one to make it happen now they wanna throw the supporting cast under the bus.  I love Isaihs style he  keeps all his dirty laudry in house which is exactly why the media hates him.

Thanks for setting it off

I'll keep it going -

You're an idiot


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 03, 2007, 06:17:00 PM
You're an idiot

WOW!!!

Nothing like a pleasant fellow pontificating


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 03, 2007, 10:32:50 PM
Hmmm, as per usual...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 03, 2007, 11:13:25 PM
I hope these new posters, like this "chopstern" character, know something about hoops.

Kobe is, as ever, self-indulgent.  It's all about him and his wants.  As though nobody else in the org wants to win or knows what needs to be done.
Lakers put together a decent team with some flaws.  Two versatile all-stars in Kobe and Odom.  A big man rotation of Mihm, Bynum, Kwame and Turiaf has size and is competitive.  But Mihm fell apart and Bynum is still very young.  Kwame has arguably the best body in the NBA, but hands of stone and seemingly limited heart and mind.  Tauriaf always hustles and looks good when I see him.  Well, actually he looks like Joe Cocker, but a fine back-up.  If Mihm stayed healthy and started, Phil could have hidden the flaws of Kwame and Bynum better. 

Luke Walton is also a strong role player, when healthy.  But the Lakes tried to get by with Smush and Shammond at the Point, and those guys aren't very good.  Farmar seems like a smart player but with limited athleticism.  If healthy, they are as competitive with Houston and Denver.  Just need to get a decent point.

In other playoff news, I said that Denver would likely win one game at most.  Turned out to be the first game, in SA, but I was right.  I think the AI myth has been deflated.
Jazz and Rock going a 7th game.  Think it's been all home wins so far.  AK47 looked fine.  Check out his stat line.  Had a great help block on a short Yao jumper, and scored to key baskets down the stretch.  Also, hounded Tmac into a turnover and a miss or two late in the 4th Q.   I'll take the expensive Russian's stats over 10-day community-service, 3-year probation, 5 911's-per-year Artest.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 12:59:06 AM
The off-season should be crazier than ever.  Miami has to make a move, LA has to make a move.  If Dallas is bounced by GS (although i think that ship has sailed on nellie's crew)-- THEY too might make a move.
Oh ye of little nads.
After GS just missed knocking Dallas off in Game 5 in Dallas, you didn't think the Warriors had a chance at home in Game 6?
Stephen Jackson apparently going nuts.
I started gamecasting just before he hit four straight 3's in the 2nd Q.
Dallas on life support, down 20 with 6 minutes left.
Dirk 2-12 and 6 points.
Whoa Nellie!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2007, 02:09:16 AM
BO - I was wrong. LOUD wrong.  And frankly happy.  Thought Dallas had that eye of the tiger back but GS and Nelson and that home crowd did a heckuva job.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 08:24:02 AM
Kid's comment was rude but pretty damn funny.

---

Mavs will probably go out and grab Sam Cassell (you heard it here first!), but bet they wouldn't mind Jamal Crawford either. Only thing is, outside of Devin Harris (who has much more value than Craw), I don't see anything possible deal between the Mavs and Knicks.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 04, 2007, 09:03:13 AM
Hey kid HA HA HA Ya MAMA,  Now dallas is gone man was I glad to see the nuggets get bumped just because of the hate I have for George Karl he's a jerk.   I was thinking  OLe Karl doesn't like JR and Camby is always hurt and have a big contract they're trying to get away from.  Here's my proposal  Marcus Camby and Jr Smith for Jamal Crawford and N8 Robinson.   Both players would fit well in Karls uptempo drive and kick offense.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 09:20:27 AM
The Nuggets deal you mention jaqd is niether cap-feasible nor fair on paper nor realistic when you take into account how much bad blood there is between the Nuggets and Knicks.

I don't how much history there is of reigning DPOYs getting traded. Reggie Evans and Eduardo Najera are definitely superfluous at this point, there's no market for K-Mart, and I think they keep Camby and Nene.

I'm still in shock that the Mavs are out.

I hope the Rockets can win game 7. Have a feeling they might be able to get it together enough to make a series out of the conference finals if they can make it there.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 04, 2007, 09:41:33 AM
Warriors make history by ousting Mavs

Davis and Jackson shot the ragtag Warriors right into the second round, capping perhaps the NBA's biggest playoff upset with yet one more memorable performance on their home floor.

Davis willed his team on one good leg, shaking off a strained hamstring to score 20 points, Jackson made a franchise playoff-record seven 3-pointers, and Golden State became the first No. 8 seed to capture a best-of-seven playoff series with a 111-86 victory over the NBA-best Dallas Mavericks in Game 6 on Thursday night.

Whoa, Nellie, what a shocker!

"We made NBA history tonight and that's the best thing about it. We did it as a team," Davis said. "I'm so proud of my teammates and proud to be a part of this franchise."

Coach Don Nelson's emotional bunch of castoffs beat his old organization by holding likely league MVP Dirk Nowitzki to eight points and 2-for-13 shooting, after he saved the Mavs with 30 points in their six-point Game 5 win Tuesday. The Warriors, making their first playoff appearance in 13 years, will open the second round Monday night at either Houston or Utah.

"This is a pretty special place to be right now," Nelson said.

Jackson - who avoided a suspension for Game 6 after two ejections in the series - hit four 3-pointers during a decisive 24-3 third-quarter run and finished with a playoff career-high 33 points.


"I wanted to be aggressive," Jackson said. "Baron came out and told me he wasn't feeling as good as he had in previous games, and he wanted me to carry us. I wanted to stay focused, not worry about calls, not get too emotional, just bring my energy with my play."


Davis also added 10 rebounds and six assists. He sat down with 2:19 to play, throwing his arms in the air to the fans who chanted "MVP!" When the final buzzer sounded, the Warriors hugged as confetti streamed onto the court.

Andris Biedrins had 12 points and 12 rebounds, not to mention a handful of key hustle plays, Matt Barnes took advantage of his first start of the series with 16 points, 11 rebounds and seven assists, and Jason Richardson added 15 points, five rebounds and four assists.

"It feels great, that's the only words I can say," Richardson said. "I don't know when I have to pinch myself or wake up from this dream. This is everything I wanted. I wanted this for our fans, for our organization, for ourselves. We work hard and we deserve it."

Josh Howard scored 20 points and Jerry Stackhouse had 14 of his 20 points in the first quarter for the 67-win Mavericks, who along with volatile owner Mark Cuban had high hopes of going deep in the postseason after their remarkable regular-season showing.

The Warriors became only the third eighth seed to upset the No. 1 and the first since the opening round went from best-of-five to the current format. The Denver Nuggets (1994) and the New York Knicks (1999) are the only other teams to win a series.

After years of failure and its share of unsuccessful personnel moves, Golden State is suddenly as big in the Bay Area as Barry Bonds' home run chase across the water in San Francisco.

"Baron toughed it out," Barnes said. "He's our leader and nothing's going to stop him right now. We've got a lot of talent and a lot of heart and we're looking to do a lot more damage."

The Warriors lured Nelson out of retirement to turn around a franchise that hadn't been to the postseason since he took them there in 1994 during his first stint as coach, dropping former Stanford coach Mike Montgomery in late August after two losing seasons.

Back home, Golden State won again behind its deafening, towel-waving crowd that Mavs coach and former Warrior Avery Johnson described this way: "If you haven't been to the playoffs in 13 years, your fans are going to be pretty crazy."

And the "We Believe" mantra that now rocks Oakland - Mickael Pietrus led the team out of the locker room holding one of the bright yellow T-shirts sporting the logo - has even caught the attention of celebrities like rapper Snoop Dogg, popular guitarist Carlos Santana, actors Woody Harrelson, Owen Wilson and Kate Hudson, and golfer Fred Couples. They were all in the stands for the clincher - and a few even headed to the celebratory locker room afterward. Ron Artest stopped by to offer his best, too.

"The fans gave us so much energy," Richardson said. "It felt great that we actually put them away like that. We played great defense tonight."

Nowitzki missed his first eight shots, bricking consecutive 3-point tries late in the second quarter before hitting a 16-footer for his first basket of the game with 38 seconds left in the period. Dallas trailed 50-48 at the break but couldn't match the Warriors' energy in the third. The Mavs went 5:07 without scoring as Golden State turned it into a rout, leading 86-63 going into the final 12 minutes.

"We were there at halftime," Johnson said. "We were only down two. We just came out and had one of our worst third quarters this year. ... This is a very disappointing end to the season."

The Warriors traded for Jackson in January in an eight-player swap with the Indiana Pacers to pair him with a healthy Davis as this playoff-starved franchise tried - and ultimately succeeded - to end the NBA's longest postseason drought.

Johnson, groomed by Nellie to be a head coach, said the Warriors had "10,000 pounds on their right arms up there in Oakland" to close out a series Golden State led 3-1, but 20,677 screaming fans from every corner of Oracle Arena put all the pressure on the cold-shooting Mavs.

The Warriors hadn't won a best-of-seven series in 31 years, since beating Detroit in a first-round series in 1975-76 - the year after winning their only NBA championship in California. Golden State had lost its last five best-of-sevens and hadn't won any playoff series since beating San Antonio 3-1 in the first round in 1990-91.

Johnson brought his team back to California immediately after Game 5 so the Mavs could get more comfortable in the Warriors' raucous confines, while Golden State spent the night in Dallas.

Dallas' first seven made field goals were 3s, 4-of-6 from Stackhouse in the opening period, and the Mavs were 0-for-14 from 2-point range before Jason Terry's jumper at the 11:22 mark of the second quarter.

"Great regular season, but a disappointing finish in the playoffs," Terry said. "We all take fault in our mistakes, but you have to give credit where credit is due. That's a hot team."

Barnes earned his first start of the series over Monta Ellis and played through a pulled right hamstring, just like Davis.

The Mavs, who lost in last year's NBA finals, became the first time to win 65 games and fail to win at least one playoff series. Even worse, it came against Nelson, who spent 10 seasons helping taking Dallas from among the league's worst teams to one of the best.

"This is not like last year was," Cuban said. "Losing the finals was really painful. This is just the first round."




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 04, 2007, 09:45:08 AM
Are you guys willing to pay $54 for this fight?

I want to see it but I dont want to pay the $60 bucks...

I might have to wait a few days and catch it for free...

But I say Floyd will win, he is just too fast and young.

But i like Oscar...he is a true gentleman and champ, if Floyd doesnt come with his A game he could take a humbilng loss...

LAS VEGAS (AP) -- After three months of verbal sparring, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Oscar De La Hoya are just about ready to shut up and fight.Boxing's best pound-for-pound fighter and its most popular champion said little to spark controversy or antagonize each other Wednesday at the largest media gathering before their fight for De La Hoya's WBC 154-pound title Saturday night.

"I think I'm out of words," De La Hoya said at the MGM Grand Hotel and Casino. "There really isn't much more to say. There's only one thing left to talk about, and that's the result."

That hasn't been the case during the colorful buildup to fight week. The innovative promotions for boxing's most anticipated fight in a half-decade included a widely praised HBO reality show, popular videos distributed on YouTube and an all-out blitz on every other media format.

After Mayweather (37-0, 24 KOs) taunted and threatened De La Hoya -- and hung a replica of the Golden Boy's Olympic gold medal around a chicken's neck -- during their 11-city promotional tour, the fighters' Las Vegas extravaganza was decidedly muted. Mayweather said only a few words on the dais, and De La Hoya (38-4, 30 KOs) was equally brief.

"I'm hungry, I know what it takes and I'm ready to go out there and die in the ring," said Mayweather, who wore $1 million in diamond jewelry.

The only vintage trash-talking came from Roger Mayweather, Floyd's uncle and trainer, who attacked the fighting credentials of Freddie Roach, De La Hoya's respected trainer. Roach didn't acknowledge Roger Mayweather's jabs with a reply.

"Don't miss this one. It might not be too long," Roach said.

Though Mayweather claims to see fear in De La Hoya's eyes, both fighters seemed calm and comfortable. Those feelings could be due to their eight-figure paydays for what could end up being the most lucrative fight in boxing history.

Richard Schaefer, the chief executive of De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions, said the MGM Grand Garden Arena already has sold each of its 16,200 seats, and six casinos on the Las Vegas Strip already have combined to sell 15,700 seats at closed-circuit viewing parties for the mass of boxing fans heading to town this weekend.

Though both fighters seemed mellow, both realize a portion of their legacies hang on the outcome. Both have intimated it might be their last fights, though Mayweather said he would be open to a rematch depending on the outcome.

"I've got a lot of money. I'm fine," Mayweather said. "I wasn't chasing fame, and I wasn't chasing money. I was chasing respect, and going out as a legend


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 10:41:35 AM
Hey kid HA HA HA Ya MAMA,  Now dallas is gone man was I glad to see the nuggets get bumped just because of the hate I have for George Karl he's a jerk.   I was thinking  OLe Karl doesn't like JR and Camby is always hurt and have a big contract they're trying to get away from.  Here's my proposal  Marcus Camby and Jr Smith for Jamal Crawford and N8 Robinson.   Both players would fit well in Karls uptempo drive and kick offense.

Ha ha ha ya mama?

Ouch.

I like Minnesota and Houston, with LAL always a treat.  Dallas being out means little to me. except we get to watch the whining criminal bi*ch Steven Jackson another week or so.

Will be interesting to see the Dallas changes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2007, 10:46:48 AM
Kid's comment was rude but pretty damn funny.


I didn't really think it was funny at all.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2007, 11:02:12 AM
Dallas and Miami .. first time in 50 years that the two previous finalists both get bounced in round 1.  Even more remarkable now because these are 7 game series.  What was it 50 years ago? Best of three? five?  anyone remember? hehe.

Both teams, safe to say, will be over the cap and having to make trades.  In other words, with draft choices in the late 20s, these teams are in the same off-season boat we're in. Only way to get better is to roll the dice for those guys.  At least we have the improvement of our youth to look towards.

The Lakers and Clippers will do something.  Sacramento will have to do something.  Francis will be collecting two paychecks next season.  One from the Knicks to go away, and a full MLE from a team like the HEAT or LA.

What can we do to facillitate these teams making their moves and how do we benefit?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 11:13:16 AM
Kam - well, I'm not saying it was at the level of peantu_buddha or lesterdog, but it was alright. I'm just glad jaqd didn't take it too hard.

kid carter - as someone who declared about 14 months ago that "any gm who doesn't take Morrison #1 needs to have his brain checked" I'm curious your thoughts about the below argument of who, among rotation players, was the worst player in the NBA. Note that Big Snacks did not play enough to qualify.

http://sonicscentral.com/apbrmetrics/viewtopic.php?t=1319


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 11:24:03 AM
WELL..................

Where to go first................

a)  don't misquote me.  I didn't have Morrison one.

b)  Bobcat fans that want to cut and run with A'mmo' crack me up

c)  Was he the worst rotation player in the league?  I haven't looked, but he did struggle more than I figured.  But plenty to build on.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 11:30:43 AM
Quote
I hope the Rockets can win game 7. Have a feeling they might be able to get it together enough to make a series out of the conference finals if they can make it there.
I doubt it.  I prefer Jazz to Rock, but Utah tossed away home court the last week of the season.
Should be a good Game 7.  Not sure that TMac and Yao know what it takes to go deep.  After Battier, Houston relies on a lot of inexperienced role players like Rafer, Head, Hayes, and average vet Howard.  I'm expecting Rockets to advance due to home court, but if Okur is hitting from outside, Utah can take it.  Good chance for Deron Williams to break out.

I think the Suns and especially the Spurs can beat Houston without too much trouble.
Houston generally play tight low scoring half-court games.  Which is exactly what the Spurs like ... and execute better.  Suns v. Rocks would be a fun contrast, but JVG teams always have those significant offensive lulls, and I doubt they can hold the Suns under 90 points.

Anyway, I'm pulling for Utah.  I liked what they put together, but last year they had lots of injuries.  Now the Boozer/Okur combo, along with Deron at the point is a strong team.  AK is having some trouble fitting in, and they are mostly using him on the perimeter.  Harpring and Giricek are a pretty tough tandem.  I like GG's confidence so far in the playoffs, and his surprisingly good D on TMac.  One of the best starting 5's in the league.  They also have vet experience with Fisher.  Plus a nice crop of yutes, Millsap, C4 Miles, and Brewer.  A well-balanced team.  Probably my 2nd favorite team after the Knickerbockers.  (Though I also root for the Suns.  Love Marion and enjoy watching Amare and Nash).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 11:30:53 AM
Now this

http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/news?slug=mb-curryline_0607&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&league=fantasy/nba

is funny


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 11:40:06 AM
The few games I saw Ammo play, all of his jumpers hit the back of the rim.  Looked like he was trying to hard.  I kept waiting for his teammates to to position themselves for the rebound 8 feet out.

I'd gladly trade Jeffries for Morrison.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 11:41:33 AM
Now this

http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/news?slug=mb-curryline

is funny
Funnier than calling somebody an idiot?
Wow, this I gotta see!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 11:49:03 AM
Hey Kid - Thanks for the response. I'm near certain you had Ammo #1 around January or February of 2006. If your mind changed over the course of the following months, that's perfectly legitimate cause Bargnani and Tyrus were not on the radar at the time (although Aldridge and Gay were, and they were the other two most often mentioned).

Lots of shooters struggle in their first year. I'd like to have Ammo on my team for when he blows up next year. I fear his defensive weakness however.

Bo - Everyone would trade JJ Slim for Ammo. That's too easy (and unrealistic). Would you trade Crawford for Ammo? Frye? Balkperson?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 12:24:58 PM
Lots of shooters struggle in their first year. I'd like to have Ammo on my team for when he blows up next year. I fear his defensive weakness however.
Bo - Everyone would trade JJ Slim for Ammo. That's too easy (and unrealistic). Would you trade Crawford for Ammo? Frye? Balkperson?
I was just playing the I'll trade my worst starter for yours game.
Especially since Ammo was being talked about as the worst of the worst starters.

I don't really want Morrison.  We have enough developing youth.
And don't need another defensively challenged player. 
But his shooting should come around, and he has good size to shoot over defenders.

I don't miss too many ops to drop Crawford, but the numbers wouldn't work anyway.
Yeah, I'd take Ammo's upside for Balkman's hustle.  Doubt Balk has that much value.
I'm getting the feeling that either Lee or Blakman goes in a trade, and at this point, I'm more attached to Lee (though he has the greater value to make a deal work).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 04, 2007, 12:26:05 PM
Would you trade Crawford for Ammo?

How much ammo we talkin'?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 12:36:10 PM
Bo - cap not a necessarily concern in a deal with Charlotte. So Crawford for Ammo works.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 12:39:51 PM
What can we do to facillitate these teams making their moves and how do we benefit?

Good question Kam. Worth thinking about.

For starters we can peddle Francis to the Clippers for Maggette and anyone (Tiny Tim, Sam I Am). Maybe they want to unite the brokebackcourt. I include Frye or Nate, not Lee, and probably not Balkman. Not sure how else it would need to be massaged.

Maybe Dallas wants some moxie and, thinking Cassell is too old and Bibby too expensive, will agree to trade Dampier and Harris for Crawford, Frye and Snacks. I don't think that's giving up too much cause Harris is deadly on-the-ball defender, in the J-Kidd/Earl Watson mold.

What about Francis & Frye for Kwame, some toss-in and their pick this year? Not sure where I stand on Kwame, to be honest.

Even brainstorming in fantasyland I can't quite fathom a deal with Miami.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 12:44:01 PM
Hey Kid - Thanks for the response. I'm near certain you had Ammo #1 around January or February of 2006. If your mind changed over the course of the following months, that's perfectly legitimate cause Bargnani and Tyrus were not on the radar at the time (although Aldridge and Gay were, and they were the other two most often mentioned).

Lots of shooters struggle in their first year. I'd like to have Ammo on my team for when he blows up next year. I fear his defensive weakness however.

Bo - Everyone would trade JJ Slim for Ammo. That's too easy (and unrealistic). Would you trade Crawford for Ammo? Frye? Balkperson?

I don't think Morrison is on our radar.

I had Shelden Williams as the Knicks pick if we had #2.  Yeah - true - I may have had A.M. one before I knew of Bargnani and Thomas (and Williams for that matter)


Title: LB Supporters
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2007, 12:49:13 PM
Matt Barnes anyone.  Six games and Larry banished him.  And Trevor was delusional. 

Yet Larry nurtured Jackie Butler and trashed Eddy Curry.  Jackie came to camp so out of shape, he played a total of 11 games for the Spurs. 

LB is like your bi-polar girlfriend. 

Let's put his 20-20 rear view canonization to rest, shall we. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 12:58:11 PM
Quote
Maybe Dallas wants some moxie and, thinking Cassell is too old and Bibby too expensive, will agree to trade Dampier and Harris for Crawford, Frye and Snacks.

Makes no sense for Dallas.
Frye plays the same type of game as Dirk, just less well. 
While Crawford is a poor man's Jason Terry. 
Not to mention they'd be crazy to give up their defenders for more offense.


Title: Re: LB Supporters
Post by: badblkman on May 04, 2007, 01:04:31 PM
Matt Barnes anyone.  Six games and Larry banished him.  And Trevor was delusional. 

Yet Larry nurtured Jackie Butler and trashed Eddy Curry.  Jackie came to camp so out of shape, he played a total of 11 games for the Spurs. 

LB is like your bi-polar girlfriend. 

Let's put his 20-20 rear view canonization to rest, shall we. 

Yup, and Channing Fyre had a ROY season under LB but under Zeke, meh.

I can see clearly now...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2007, 01:05:51 PM
Quote
Maybe Dallas wants some moxie and, thinking Cassell is too old and Bibby too expensive, will agree to trade Dampier and Harris for Crawford, Frye and Snacks.

Makes no sense for Dallas.
Frye plays the same type of game as Dirk, just less well. 
While Crawford is a poor man's Jason Terry. 
Not to mention they'd be crazy to give up their defenders for more offense.

So, when the MAVS has KVH backing up Dirk they went to the Finals.  Why not FRYE to the MAVS as KVH replacement. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2007, 01:06:51 PM
Does Dallas consider: Frye+Nate+Balkman for DHarris? 


Title: LB: Re-Writing History
Post by: chipstern on May 04, 2007, 01:14:07 PM
Not sure who, likely Dawg, was giddily espousing the genius of LB for wanting to trade Frye at peak value for Lamar Odom, as if Lakers would've done it.  

Thought this issue was dead, but Isiah-Baiters know a good thing when they see it.  So we revisit the dubious notion of Larry's nurturing hand for talent.  

I was one of Larry's enthusiasts, so my dissappointment in him is all the more pointed.  Like a neurotic old Jewish mother.  Or a bi-polar girlfriend.  

So Trevor Ariza, a nice athletic, hard-working SF with defensive prowess and proficiency (though offensively dubious) was delusional...we'll overlook his growth curve with the Magic.  

And of course, Jackie Butler's upside and work ethic far exceeded that of Eddy Curry.  We'll overlook how hard Eddy worked to get in shape, while Jackie came to camp so larded out with a new contract, that he appeared in only 11 games for the Spurs.  

Matt Barnes anyone?  

Larry loves you one minute, loathes you the next.  Larry started Matt, then gave up on him after only six games, and had Isiah banish him shortly thereafter.  

Meanwhile...

Nellie gets roughly 10 points, 4.5 boards, 2 assists and 1 steal a game out of a Larry-reject in 23 minutes a night.  (Renaldo getting roughly 5 and 5 in 16 minutes).  

Also worth noting that a 20-something caucoid in my cab a year or so ago, claiming a close family connection to Steve Mills, noted that Larrpy was apoplectic and confrontatory during his final job review with the Knicks, and that his dismissal was not a done deal, but he yelled contentiously at his bosses, demanded the waiving of half the roster, and a increased powers.  

In other words, he wanted to be fired, class.  

Whatever Isiah's manifest failings, he has attempted to nurture the talent he has.  Steph is his boy, and yet Steph saw the bench when he didn't get with the program.  SM played D and played hurt.  N8 was an Isiah fave, yet Isiah tried to get him with the program, with varying degrees of success.  

By the way, while I love Jermaine, his body is beginning to break down at 28, based on what, 11 years in the league.  and I would be very hesistant to offer Indiana the ranch, and take back Tinsley.  I smell a McDyess.  And the notion as raised by some here of not only offering Frye, but Crawford and Lee!  Go f#ck yourselves.  

i Worth noting that I oppossed Bo D. on his Boozer Quest, so what do I know.  

(http://)


Title: Re: LB Supporters
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 01:19:14 PM
Matt Barnes anyone.  Six games and Larry banished him.  And Trevor was delusional. 

Yet Larry nurtured Jackie Butler and trashed Eddy Curry.  Jackie came to camp so out of shape, he played a total of 11 games for the Spurs. 

LB is like your bi-polar girlfriend. 

Let's put his 20-20 rear view canonization to rest, shall we. 

"Six games and Larry banished him"

ISIAH banished him.


Title: Re: LB Supporters
Post by: Kam on May 04, 2007, 01:23:40 PM
Matt Barnes anyone.  Six games and Larry banished him.  And Trevor was delusional. 

Yet Larry nurtured Jackie Butler and trashed Eddy Curry.  Jackie came to camp so out of shape, he played a total of 11 games for the Spurs. 

LB is like your bi-polar girlfriend. 

Let's put his 20-20 rear view canonization to rest, shall we. 

"Six games and Larry banished him"

ISIAH banished him.

He sucked!


Title: Re: LB: Re-Writing History
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 01:23:52 PM
Not sure who, likely Dawg, was giddily espousing the genius of LB for wanting to trade Frye at peak value for Lamar Odom, as if Lakers would've done it.  

Thought this issue was dead, but Isiah-Baiters know a good thing when they see it.  So we revisit the dubious notion of Larry's nurturing hand for talent.  

I was one of Larry's enthusiasts, so my dissappointment in him is all the more pointed.  Like a neurotic old Jewish mother.  Or a bi-polar girlfriend.  

So Trevor Ariza, a nice athletic, hard-working SF with defensive prowess and proficiency (though offensively dubious) was delusional...we'll overlook his growth curve with the Magic.  

And of course, Jackie Butler's upside and work ethic far exceeded that of Eddy Curry.  We'll overlook how hard Eddy worked to get in shape, while Jackie came to camp so larded out with a new contract, that he appeared in only 11 games for the Spurs.  

Matt Barnes anyone?  

Larry loves you one minute, loathes you the next.  Larry started Matt, then gave up on him after only six games, and had Isiah banish him shortly thereafter.  

Meanwhile...

Nellie gets roughly 10 points, 4.5 boards, 2 assists and 1 steal a game out of a Larry-reject in 23 minutes a night.  (Renaldo getting roughly 5 and 5 in 16 minutes).  

Also worth noting that a 20-something caucoid in my cab a year or so ago, claiming a close family connection to Steve Mills, noted that Larrpy was apoplectic and confrontatory during his final job review with the Knicks, and that his dismissal was not a done deal, but he yelled contentiously at his bosses, demanded the waiving of half the roster, and a increased powers.  

In other words, he wanted to be fired, class.  

Whatever Isiah's manifest failings, he has attempted to nurture the talent he has.  Steph is his boy, and yet Steph saw the bench when he didn't get with the program.  SM played D and played hurt.  N8 was an Isiah fave, yet Isiah tried to get him with the program, with varying degrees of success.  

By the way, while I love Jermaine, his body is beginning to break down at 28, based on what, 11 years in the league.  and I would be very hesistant to offer Indiana the ranch, and take back Tinsley.  I smell a McDyess.  And the notion as raised by some here of not only offering Frye, but Crawford and Lee!  Go f#ck yourselves.  

i Worth noting that I oppossed Bo D. on his Boozer Quest, so what do I know.  

(http://)

Ever think Trev LEARNED something from his Knicks experience?



Title: Re: LB Supporters
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 01:33:34 PM
Matt Barnes anyone.  Six games and Larry banished him.  And Trevor was delusional. 

Yet Larry nurtured Jackie Butler and trashed Eddy Curry.  Jackie came to camp so out of shape, he played a total of 11 games for the Spurs. 

LB is like your bi-polar girlfriend. 

Let's put his 20-20 rear view canonization to rest, shall we. 

"Six games and Larry banished him"

ISIAH banished him.

He sucked!

Not really

But Zeke developed the manlove for Woods.  Can't say if melanin was involved, that he wanted to get "more athletic" or whatever


Title: Re: LB Supporters
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 04, 2007, 01:46:02 PM

LB is like your bi-polar girlfriend. 


he wanted to be fired




He wanted to see other people.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 04, 2007, 02:52:55 PM
The Mavs loss to Golden State tells you something about Dirk.

Dirk cant get it done...I would not give him the MVP this year...

I would stay with Nash...  Dirk let little compared to him - Steven Jackson destroy him from Game 1.

Jackson has heart that I must give him...He handled Kobe vs the lakers and Dirk vs the Mavs...

jason terry cant handle Baron either.... The Warriors knew they would win...

And tell Mark Cuban to pay Nellie his owed moneys...Who does he think he is not paying his ex coach?  The Dolans?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 04, 2007, 03:29:26 PM
A real good flow today EY kid kiss my bumper, jus kis it.   This is going to be a good summer and the more trade scenarios I come up with  I start thinking we should stay the course barring a rebounding PF,Ron Artest and a dead eye shooter I think we have a nice core of young impressionable talent that at times looked ready for primetime. Considering this year was just to boost confidence and instill teamwork in the work I think this year was a success and we don't need to blow up the whole squad and start over. Here's my grades (barring injuries) for this year

Coach-            B  was stubborn at times and didn't put the best 5 on the floor

Steph-            A  Played unselfish, great defense and was truly a leader
Crawford-        B- at times played out of control but was our best clutch shooter
Q-                  A   before the injury he was our best defender and all around player
N8-                B - clutch shooter good range just needs to mature
Jeffries           C-  only because his injuries in the beginning of the season hampered a good pickup next year will be better
Collins             B-  good poise for a rookie played under control but has no jumpshot for now
Frye               C    good player good range  but lost his confidence should be ready next season
Lee                 A   played with a lot of heart good hands and a a knack for the ball
Balkman           A   See Lee's Reviews
JJames             C   I think a good backup center just needs to get in shape if he can play for 20 minutes like he does in 5 he'll be aiight


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 04, 2007, 03:31:03 PM
I wasn't finished

Curry              B  really changed his game around just needs to learn how to pass out of the double team
Francis            can go to hell


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 04, 2007, 03:39:29 PM
Kam, Mavs already have Austin Croshere in the honorary KVH role.

Chip, Jermaine played sparingly his first 4 years in Portland.
He has missed significant time the past three seasons. 
Has been nearly a 20 & 10 man the past 6 years when he has played.
Also blocks shots.  And would be a nice complement to EC on both ends.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 04:09:04 PM
Not sure how complimentary JO and CUrry are. Both need the offense to run through them in order to be effective (Curry on the low block, JO on either the low or high post). Also, not sure JO would be too happy about guarding the likes of Bosh, Jamison, Nocioni, Nowitzki, Amare etc 15 feet away (or more) from the basket. And he's injury prone.

I do think that JO gives us the shooting touch we need in a 4. And his shot-blocking addresses a major issue. And while he is definitely a better player than Curry, he may be willing/able to adjust to his game to fit around that of Curry.

I'm just saying this isn't Kobe or Duncan - it is possible for us to pay too much for JO. I'd have to see the price tag before endorsing the purchase.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 04:35:03 PM
If it improves the 8-man, no price too high


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 04, 2007, 04:43:49 PM
OK, more realistic grading for a team that finished with 33 wins and wilted badly at the end.

B+ Eddie Curry-came into his own, still a bit weak on defense
     Jamal Crawford-superstar potential, can score and bring wins
    David Lee -Breakout year for a stud under the boards

B Starbury-Stepped up but still does his best work when on an island, Looks great when the team is losing and everybody else becomes invisible

C Francis, Rose,- nothing to write home about

C- Cato-filler

D Q injured slug,N8-a liability on defense

F Jeffries, Jones- two big negatives saved from NBA extinction by the generosity of the leader

Inc. Balkman, Collins, Morris, Frye regressed after a good rookie year?




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 04, 2007, 05:41:13 PM
Nicely done


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 04, 2007, 05:55:31 PM
Well, except for the Q rating. He was a revelation for the 55 games or so he was healthy.

It was 55 games, right?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 04, 2007, 08:02:51 PM
Matt Barnes anyone.  Six games and Larry banished him.  And Trevor was delusional.

MATT BARNES

Nelly used him like Larry, STARTED him, then BANISHED HIM when the new guys showed up, then BROUGHT HIM BACK when he needed him. A good coach, coaching. No BS.

TREVOR was DELUSIONAL
and probably owes whatever NBA career he will have to Larry.

Keep sucking on your bones and pretending its steak.

K-9 I'm coming for you in due time.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 04, 2007, 08:30:50 PM
K-9 I'm coming for you in due time.

Lesterdog Goes to the Shrink


Lesterdog:  “Doctor, I think I’m a dog.”


Psychiatrist: “Why that’s strange.  What makes you think you’re a dog?”


Lesterdog:  “Well, when I go to the grocery store and I see all those cans of dog food, I feel compelled to buy them all and take them home and eat them.

Furthermore, I sleep on the floor.

Not only that, but sometimes I run after cars and I bark at cats.”


Psychiatrist:  “Boy, you really do have a problem!  In all of my years of practice, I’ve never had a patient quite like you. 

Tell me…

When did all of this begin?”



Lesterdog:  "When I was a puppy."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 04, 2007, 08:45:58 PM
I hope these new posters, like this "chopstern" character, know something about hoops.

I doubt it Bo.

He’s probably one of those light-in-the-loafer-lefties lookin’ for the Culture Club forum.

If that’s the case, the only hoops he’ll know about are the ones hanging from his earlobes.


It’s clear what the Knicks need.

They need a sniper like Manu.

Did you know…I've heard that Manu is able to use his nose in much the same way a marksman would use the sights on a rifle.

I wouldn’t make too much of it though.

I’ve hit similar shots into the play ball bin at Wal-Mart and that thing is close to twenty feet high.


Title: Can I Get a Witness?
Post by: lesterdog on May 05, 2007, 01:29:59 AM
breaking news-breaking news-SEPT. 10 TRIAL DATE FOR ISIAH-breaking news-breaking news
By MARC BERMAN

May 2, 2007 -- Knicks coach/president Isiah Thomas will spend his summer preparing for the NBA draft, free agency - and trial.
A trial date of Sept. 10, in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, has been set for former Knicks marketing chief Anucha Browne-Sanders' sexual-harassment suit versus Thomas.
Legal sources predict the trial to last two weeks, allowing Thomas to be ready for Knicks' training camp Oct. 1 in Charleston, S.C. Sources deny settlement talks took place recently.
"There's going to be a trial," one legal source said. Browne-Sanders declined comment.


But when will he be tried for blaming the fans for his own failure?

Is it right to be treated so bad
When you give it everything you had?

You Go Anucha, Free Us From Our Pain!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 05, 2007, 01:37:35 AM
Buddy did my shrink talk to you? Cause if so that's breaking the patient-doctor confidentiality whatchamacallit.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 05, 2007, 01:52:19 AM
Q has been chronicly injured for the past two years with a bad back. 49 games this year, 55 games last year. He had  back problems with the Clips. Maybe up to a C+ grade but not a good sign for the future. Another bad signing for IT. How can someone who shows such good skills drafting be so clueless with veteran pick-ups? Anyhow looking at the draft SF looks like the primary need.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 05, 2007, 10:11:41 AM
I actually think between Q, JJ Slim and Balkman we're not going to find an improvement at the 3 in the draft (i.e. no Brewer). I'd eye a dead-eye shooter who will play the 2. Ultimately, I think Crawford in the starting lineup is not a ideal proposition unless Jason Kidd is your point guard.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 05, 2007, 10:42:07 AM
I actually think between Q, JJ Slim and Balkman we're not going to find an improvement at the 3 in the draft (i.e. no Brewer). I'd eye a dead-eye shooter who will play the 2. Ultimately, I think Crawford in the starting lineup is not a ideal proposition unless Jason Kidd is your point guard.

Thats a crazy notion... Jkidd on the break with the ball... or in the halfcourt setting up Eddy Curry ALL DAY LONG? 

The NETS need to move kidd before brooklyn.  We have youth to trade.  Having Kidd on the Knicks for two years with EC and one other scorer ala Crawford and some garbage men would make for a very good team.  We probably don't get any further than the ECF but it would be fun to watch.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 05, 2007, 10:55:48 AM
biz, no secret that I agree about Crawford.  He could be valuable as an instant-offense third guard.  But he taint no Point, and shoots too poorly for a shooting guard.  And there's the small matter of the other end of the court.  Is $7M too much for a third guard with holes in his game?  His salary will start rising up to $9M and the illusion of "potential" will dissipate as he ages into his late 20's.   That's why it's best to move him now while he still appears to have upside (hopefully to some teams), and while his contract looks okay for a starter who can light it up on occasion.

I thought O'Neal complements Curry because he prefers to play the 4 and facing the basket.  JO'N also boards and blocks which Curry doesn't do so well.  A strong PF could ease the burden on Curry to perform.  Seems to me when both of your Bigs demand double teams, the defense gets stretched and stressed greatly. 

Playoffs:
Detroit-Bulls looks like a primo matchup.  I think Detroit will win, but only if their guards perform.  Seems Rip has been in a semi-slump.  Alot of people looking forward to the Prince-Deng matchup.

I seem to have had alot more faith than those candy-assed Nets fans.  I'll go with Nets over Cavs, but it's going to be important for the Nets to board and not let the Cavs Bigs do too much damage.  Z is lackadaisical, and Collins should be able to push and bump him off his game.  Gooden is problematic, but Mikki Mouse is playing well.  Watching the Netizens beat the Rap, I knew that Nachbar wasn't going to get the last shot.  I liked how after the game, Vince admitted that he was the decoy on the last play mostly because he had taken a bad shot on the possession before.  That was a stupid 3-point attempt.  Vince often seems to succumb to rash thinking in the last minute or two.  I'm a big RJ fan, so that was very sweet.  [Fwiw, Marion, RJ, Butler and Bonzi are the probably the only players I actively root for]

I'm going with the Suns in 6.
GS likely to have a let-down in the next round. 
Not to mention some tired hobbling players. 
Hope the Jazz keeps playing, but I'm very apprehensive.




Title: History Revisionism, KIID Style
Post by: chipstern on May 05, 2007, 03:08:09 PM
But Zeke developed the manlove for Woods.

Loud wrong, dude.

Qyntel was referred to the Knicks by Herb Brown, Larry's brother. 

Still, who am I to refute your learned references to manlove?  It's all good. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 06, 2007, 12:27:05 AM
Good Utah win.  Led through 3 1/2 quarters and took the crowd of out it for most of the game.  It came down to Utah making a few baskets and then getting a mess of offensive rebounds in the last two minutes.  Hard for Houston to score if they don't have the ball.

Inexcusable that the rockets didn't foul when there was 11 seconds left, down by 2.  Tmac and Battier had Deron Williams trapped in the backcourt and should have attacked going hard for the steal or taking a foul.  Instead they both looked somewhat tentative and unsure of the strategy.

Looking forward to the De La Mayweather fight.
Live on Chinese Tv.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 06, 2007, 11:57:13 AM
That was a thrilling game 7. Think the Rockettes lost not due to the failure to foul but the two offensive rebounds that gave Utah a 45 second possession (that ended in a bucket).

I feel for T-Mac.

In related news, JVG is retiring. At least that's what Vescey says. Larry Brown badly wants that Houston job (in which case Rafer is probably as good as gone, and Steve Francis loses his #1 destination).

Golden State must be happy- they match up much, much better with Utah than Houston.


Title: Speed
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 06, 2007, 11:59:37 AM
Did the quicker team win every playoff series? Is that what the new NBA is about?

If so, where does Eddy Curry fit in?

Seriously, watching Yao and Shaq and even Howard bounced in favour of quicker players makes you wonder what Knicks team is best - the one centered around Curry or a quicker team with guys like JJ Slim, Lee, and Humpty cutting, hustling and grabbing offensive rebounds.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2007, 03:25:04 PM
I love watching JKidd go up for a layup and get swatted from behind.  Cle 1 NJ 0.


Title: Re: Speed
Post by: Kam on May 06, 2007, 03:34:09 PM
Did the quicker team win every playoff series? Is that what the new NBA is about?

If so, where does Eddy Curry fit in?

Seriously, watching Yao and Shaq and even Howard bounced in favour of quicker players makes you wonder what Knicks team is best - the one centered around Curry or a quicker team with guys like JJ Slim, Lee, and Humpty cutting, hustling and grabbing offensive rebounds.

You bring up a good question.  But who says EC can't run up and down if we chose to play that style?  Might help him drop some extra baggage he's carrying as well.  I'd like to see him in the shape he was in a couple years ago. He has bulked up a lot as a Knick.

On Van Gundy... looking at him speak last night in the post game I could tell he was done.  They really badly need a PG.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on May 06, 2007, 10:32:25 PM
Papabear Says

Hey thats right Papabear is back on the scene!!! Don't be surprised if Tracy McGrady becomes a Knick and Francis goes to Houston. With 2 superstar a Yao and McGrady and Houston couldn't do anything.. I also think that Zeke has the talent to find a diamond in the rough. That is a pure shoter, a dead eye shoter at #23. We may get KG. Minny ain't going nowhere and they don't want the Lakers to get KG so lets make a deal. Maybe Fry can grow in Minny.

Papabear





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 03:04:45 AM
Papabear Says

Hey thats right Papabear is back on the scene!!! Don't be surprised if Tracy McGrady becomes a Knick and Francis goes to Houston. With 2 superstar a Yao and McGrady and Houston couldn't do anything.. I also think that Zeke has the talent to find a diamond in the rough. That is a pure shoter, a dead eye shoter at #23. We may get KG. Minny ain't going nowhere and they don't want the Lakers to get KG so lets make a deal. Maybe Fry can grow in Minny.

Papabear




I would see if they'd take Francis for: Howard, Alston, Sura.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 07, 2007, 10:02:24 AM
 [ R U M O R S ]
O'Neal a Knick?
Jermaine O'Neal has told the Pacers he wants to be traded to the Knicks, according to the Chicago Tribune ... Warriors to keep Matt Barnes? ... Chuck Hayes wants to stay with the Rockets ... Clippers, Timberwolves and Mavericks interested in Theodoros Papaloukas? ... Larry Brown an option for the Rockets?
 

Nash was bleeding like a son of a gun,,,

Lets see how he does once he is all stitched up?  Nash will be fine..but Timmy has Amares number..

Spurs will take the West.

Detroit looks good in the East.

Go Knicks


Title: Frannie
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 07, 2007, 10:13:46 AM
Hey Kam

"I would see if they'd take Francis for: Howard, Alston, Sura."

Gotta disagree ...how does that make us a better team? Why take back contracts that run longer than that of Francis? Juwanna Man doesn't get time ahead of Frye or Lee. Alston doesn't get time ahead of Steph and probably shouldn't steal time from Mardy (leaving Nate and Craw aside). Then there is the whole concept of bring Skip back to NYC....not sure that's a good idea. Hell Toronto was too close to home.

T-Mac is not going anywhere.

The Chicago Tribune guy that said JO wants to come to NY is notorious, and not in the Chris Wallace way. More like in the Mitch Lawrence way. Not getting my hopes up.

Besides, even if JO did tell Donnie and Larry Legend that he wanted a one-way trip to Gotham, what compels Pacers management to oblige? Perhaps their general disinclination to deal with New York (and Zeke in particular) is addressed somewhat, but I don't see a sweetheart deal by any means.



Title: Re: Frannie
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 11:48:15 AM
Hey Kam

"I would see if they'd take Francis for: Howard, Alston, Sura."

Gotta disagree ...how does that make us a better team?


Well you have three smaller deals instead of one so it makes you more flexible.  Buy out two, trade one. Keep one, trade one, buy out the other.  Buy out all three for smaller sums than it would take to buyout Francis etc.

Other reasons:
Howard can play Defense a lick and his contract ends at the same time as Francis.
Sura can shoot a lick and help out our backcourt overall. He's an ending deal. Can be traded as a throw-in.
Alston we can cut or try to trade. 

What do we lose if we're otherwise just going to pay Francis $30mil to go away and hurt us from another team?  At least this way we send him West.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2007, 12:00:51 PM
Already too many injuns


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 12:33:17 PM
Already too many injuns

And Francis is an injum who doesn't fit but still wants to hunt.  At least Howard-Alston-Sura can be put thru the food processor however we see fit.  Waive or buy-out all three of them and still save money.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2007, 12:55:58 PM
Whothehellisgonnaplayandwhen?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 01:01:21 PM
Whothehellisgonnaplayandwhen?

You're dumb.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 07, 2007, 01:25:22 PM
If I was right about how great Shane Battier and Jeff Van Gundy are, the Rockets would still be playing. I don't blame T-Mac. I need to do some reassessing, however.

I'm with kid, although I would not have used the term "injuns". No more players who need the ball in their hands unless they are difference makers.

Can anyone fancy a JO deal that is realistic? Best I can figure is:

O'Neal, Tinsley
for
Crawford, Francis, Frye

Just not sure what they would want with Francis. And I think that Dolan, Zeke and Curry love Craw too much to move him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2007, 01:33:59 PM
I reject any deal with the convict Tinsley in it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: vookaleer on May 07, 2007, 01:52:43 PM
if Garnet is movable- Crawford, Lee and Frye would work out nicely- in terms of players and salary (I believe)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 07, 2007, 02:33:50 PM
I reject any deals with kidcarter8 in it...

seriously though....who cares if they where involved in the Detroit fiasco?

Give me Artest, Stephen jackson and Tinsley anyday for Frye, Lee, balkman, Nate, Francis, Craw ect...

Artest is a defensive force and respected enough to make stops...You have seen what jackson can do...ask Dirk.

Tinsley is better that any PG the Knicks have....(the knicks dont have 1 true PG) Craw, Nate, Francis and Marbury are all scoring guards or 2s.

I dont know where these guys come from (the moral minority) judging characters like they never got into anything in there lives....

lester dawg...You cant guard me...as a matter of fact you remind me of Big Snacks making a comment about steak sandwiches and meat on a bone...just admit it you have a weight problem...you cant wait to eat!

You and Eddy Curry should tack on 30 or 40 pounds this off season...



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 07, 2007, 02:44:07 PM
Steve nash looked like a slab of meat from Rocky!

MVP , keep your guards up... or duck! 

Did anybody see jason Kidd get his shot rejected by that player from the Cavs?

Kidd thought he was all alone to score the easy fast break layup...and out of nowhere just like Tayshon Prince on Reggie Miller.....REJECTED...REJECTED...KIDDS SHOT IS REJECTED....

Its time to break up the Kings,,the Rockets the Mavs...the Twolves the lakers ..

between...I would take that Durant over Oden...Thats like passing on MJ for hakeem...

Both safe picks...but Durant is a real keeper...

OK Baron Davis lets do this one more time!  Those hicks form Utah cant stop you...

Lets send Utah to a early vaction too...   


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 07, 2007, 03:10:34 PM
Frye, Lee, Crawford and our pick for Garnett thats a good trade Id do that if I were gm,then Malik and N8 for Artest

Lineup

Steph
Q
Artest
Garnett
Curry

second unit

Mardy
pick up a sniper from the nbdl
Balkman
Jeffries
Randolph




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 03:16:06 PM
pick up a sniper from the nbdl

Or the draft, right?  Almond or Belinelli might slip to 23.

Artest and Garnett for Crawford, Rose and our 2005 draft class?

Sign me up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 07, 2007, 03:26:11 PM
Isiah...

make it so...


I was watching the Malik Rose story om ESPN ...Garnnett is tailormade for NYC...

There are at least 3 players that can make an instant upgrade to any of the NBA teams playing overseas...

At least consider...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 07, 2007, 03:33:33 PM
Frye, Lee, Crawford and our pick for Garnett thats a good trade Id do that if I were gm,then Malik and N8 for Artest

So we eat our young yet again?  The cycle continues.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 07, 2007, 03:41:15 PM
Would be a shame to waste Garnett with this cast


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 03:46:08 PM
Frye, Lee, Crawford and our pick for Garnett thats a good trade Id do that if I were gm,then Malik and N8 for Artest

So we eat our young yet again?  The cycle continues.

As a rule you should not trade young for old(er) but Miami lost Caron Butler and lived.  Sure, they are now paying for it, but going all-in also has its advantages.  Like not watching another player (Frye) regress and lose value.  Youth is great.  Realized potential better.

Garnett and Curry wouldn't be a waste.  We'd be right in that ECF mix with CHI and DET.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 07, 2007, 03:50:55 PM
These are the same folks who will argue that this is a great roster that Zeke has put together and it just needs to gel.  Yet, there now they're ready to trade half of it away.

The Positive Poly's know no depths.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 07, 2007, 03:52:45 PM
badblk its not eating the young its using what you got to get what you want we want a ring Garnett is an allstar who's never injured probably got a good 3 years left in him more then enuff time for contracts to expire and then go young again but not after some real good battles for the East.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 07, 2007, 03:57:45 PM
How is trading away three players with 10+ years left for one player with 3 years left not eating your young?

Also, it's not as if we're one player away.  This is a 33 win team.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 04:33:28 PM
These are the same folks who will argue that this is a great roster that Zeke has put together and it just needs to gel.  Yet, there now they're ready to trade half of it away.

The Positive Poly's know no depths.

Stop painting with such a broad brush. I don't know who you're talking to "these people". I'm right here man.

Most Knick fans agree that you can't develop all the kids at once and it makes sense to condense this lineup down to a core 8-9 guys.  We have some pieces to play with who are cheaply signed and they all happen to be young.  And as far as youth goes, its not an absolute. For every player who makes it as a 1st rounder, another one doesn't.  You wanna be positive about youth, ask those ATL Hawk fans or any other really young team.  You can't expect ALL your draft picks to become the real deal. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 07, 2007, 04:36:36 PM
I tend to think that jaq's lineup would be a strong contender to get to the finals once or twice presuming Artest is reasonably healthy and reasonably sane. So maybe that's saying that they have no chance.

Anyhow, jaqd was giving our draft pick away while Kam was drafting Belinelli (whom I like).

If the pick is gone, I say sign a sniper from Europe. Igor Racokevic comes to mind. Or even the Greek star that just lost with CSKA. Either would demand 3 year $10-12 contracts. Either would fit nicely with that second unit. Plus, better to go with a vet than a rookie if we're bringing in RonRon and KG and basically putting all our chips in for the next three seasons.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 04:42:09 PM
I tend to think that jaq's lineup would be a strong contender to get to the finals once or twice presuming Artest is reasonably healthy and reasonably sane. So maybe that's saying that they have no chance.

Anyhow, jaqd was giving our draft pick away while Kam was drafting Belinelli (whom I like).

If the pick is gone, I say sign a sniper from Europe. Igor Racokevic comes to mind. Or even the Greek star that just lost with CSKA. Either would demand 3 year $10-12 contracts. Either would fit nicely with that second unit. Plus, better to go with a vet than a rookie if we're bringing in RonRon and KG and basically putting all our chips in for the next three seasons.

I'll say this about the Superstar scheming and dreaming going on today (hey its summer and we're out of the playoffs so let us have our fun) it probably is not enough to just get Artest alone.  You need a KG there or someone to threaten to kick Rons ass.  KG is more intense than anyone.  Ron would have to submit to the KG alpha dog, especially since Marbs would have KGs back.

So its KG AND Artest or neither.  All-in or all-out.  None of this in-between appeals to me.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 07, 2007, 06:36:08 PM
  You can't expect ALL your draft picks to become the real deal. 

What more proof do you need from David Lee? The guy is a sure double double every game. Right, he ain't KG but, like bad says, he has at least ten prime years left in him, he's only going to get better.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 07, 2007, 07:40:17 PM
So we eat our young yet again?  The cycle continues.

I wouldn't worry about it BBLK. It's not as if  half a dozen other teams can't put together better packages should J.O or KG really be in play. I mean when the Bulls can start out any package with Nocioni, one of last year's rookies & our #9 pick, we're not even in the running with Frye, Francis, Craw combinations......




K999 Mix Floyd Mayweather with Street Sense and you have an idea of my strength & stamina, if not appearance.


Title: Injuns & Chiefs
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2007, 07:49:56 PM
Kiid used precisely the right word.  We already have too many injuns and not enough chiefs.  Look at what Baron Davis' leadership has wrought in GS.  

As for all of these trades, I am with Badblackman on this one.  And Kiid.  yeah, if the right trade came around, sure...

But the willingness of our fans to eat their young is pitiable.  Over the side for a 33 year old?  Who has won what exactly?  You get what you reap.  

Yeah, for Jermaine O'Neal, I'd be willing to give up Frye.  As for the rest of the package, Francis makes money numbers fit but likely doesn't get it done.  I don't think Isiah will trade Jamal in any event (even though I respect Bo Diddley's lack of affection for JC), so our #1 would probably be a  must.  And Nate, because Indy sure needs a scorer.  Lee?  No friggin' way.  

But take back Tinsley?  Not because of his alleged ganster leanings, but because HE CANNOT STAY HEALTHY!!!.  And because he takes time from Mardy.  Just trading in one Francis for another.  

And no, I do not think he is better than Steph, or even Jamal, and Mardy has show enough that I want to open up time for him.  We need a pure shooter, not another barely ambulatory point.  

As for the character issue, Nellie has fined Stephen Jackson a number of times for NOT GETTING IT, but it is Baron Davis' leadership, and Nellie's tough love and free-flowing game that has Jackson excelling like Spree did in our Eastern Conference Championship year.  

In Indy, no, it did not work.  But in GS?  Jackson is playing at an all-star level on offense AND DEFENSE!  He spanked Dirk, and made the MVP settle for outside shots.  Nellie's Warrior are playing like a pack of wild dawgs, and I love it.  Playing D, too, in case no one noticed.  

Finally, on all of these trades, we need to thin out the roster, not bring in more bodies, Kam.  Sura is a cripple, Alston is redundant and didn't get it done in Houston, and Juuwan is just too old.



Title: Dawg
Post by: chipstern on May 07, 2007, 07:52:53 PM
And yes, as Lester suggests, it is moot. 

Nocioni, the Bulls' [Our] #1, and Ty Thomas would be far more tempting. 

Though Dawg is neglecting to include the big numbers' contracts that make it work, isn't he? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 07, 2007, 09:05:44 PM
Look at Sweetney.  You couldn't get a 2nd rd pick for him now.  Channing Frye has had his "sell high" moment and is rapidly approaching the obsolescent status that is Sweetney. Both of them top 10 picks. 

We traded Sweets after two years and if we package Frye/Nate we can get our SF upgrade or PF upgrade. 

regarding my Francis package to Houston. I figure we could waive all three of those guys, at least it gets Francis to our preferred destination in Houston where he can't inflict much pain on us.  Get the motive?  Exile him to an elba of our choosing.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2007, 03:42:19 AM
Sweetney and Frye comparison unpersuasive.   Frye has height and a good shot, and without conditioning issues.  Maybe Frye needs to be utilized better.

If J O'N has an opt out after next year, he has power.  Indy could lose him for nothing after one more year of missing the playoffs.  And other teams won't give much value if he is only under contract for one more year.  So he can choose where he will go in a sign and trade.  Big Op for Isiah's laser-focus.

I've been saying since the first week of the season that Utah is a solid team.  Little rest and preparation, but they overcame Nellie's Warriors.  That's how you beat a small running team: dominate the boards, get to the free throw line, and don't give up too many 3's.  Doesn't hurt to have AK blocking everything in sight.  It's official, I want AK47.  Will settle for O'Neal. 

Unfortunately I only got the Detroit game, and Pistons were up by 15 when I tuned in late in the 1st Q.  Bulls looking small and limited.  Ty Thomas led a 4th Q comeback that fizzled.  Bulls need to make some serious home adjustments or that series will be over soon.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 08, 2007, 03:49:16 AM
Speaking of eating our young, one of our undigested Layden yutes just resurfaced:

Quote
Panathinaikos won its fourth Euroleague title by beating defending champion CSKA Moscow 93-91 Sunday.

Ramunas Siskauskas made two clinching free throws with 5 seconds left, sending the 18,000 fans at the Athens Olympic Hall into wild celebrations. It was a record sixth title for coach Zeljko Obradovic with four different teams and his second with Panathinaikos since 2002.

Panathinaikos led 46-36 at halftime after a big second quarter, when the Greek club tied a Final Four record by scoring 28 points. Nikos Hatzivrettas and Milos Vujanic combined for 12 points to help Panathinaikos build up its lead.

Is KBY in the house?  Any other info on Milos' season or number of functioning knees?


Title: Re: Dawg
Post by: lesterdog on May 08, 2007, 06:42:45 AM
Though Dawg is neglecting to include the big numbers' contracts that make it work, isn't he? 

he is, but I'm not one of those trade checker guys.

Just pointing out that as an entry point, bench material from another team is probably more appealing that 2/5 of our starting lineup. Zeek would likely have to sweeten the package with two or three unprotected number ones.

.


..


NO     ZEEK      MY GOD NO
DON'T DO IT ZEEK


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: ex.regis on May 08, 2007, 09:35:48 AM
Q: Which player do the Knicks have to get rid of this offseason?
* Nate Robinson
* Steve Francis
* Stephon Marbury
* Other


A: Yes

When one gets down to the Planck scale, some 19 orders of magnitude smaller than the elementary particle scale, quantum effects take over completely. The continuous space-time universe becomes discrete (current thoughts go) and there is no longer a half way from here to there. Planck time, some 43 orders of magnitude smaller than a second, is also conjectured to become discrete. Time no longer moves anywhere but becomes for each discrete three dimensional (or eleven dimensional) island a family of discrete time sub-islands, stationary. There is no time as we know it, all moments are equal and laid out before the Planck scale observer (whatever that might be), and we are present at the underpinnings of our universe, our galaxy, our birth and death, our Knick four dimensional instances, our Knick conquests (rarely seen), and our Knick disappointments -- each present forever more, since the Big Bang (if since makes sense), arranged in any order we wish.

I wish for a championship. I find the pieces I want (in my mind) from the Planck-scale-universe, I massage them, I whisper to them and they whisper back -- the chipmunk-cheeked Allan, the sly Reed wink, the earnest Bradley push-off, two Braun hands getting set, a Sprewell tomahawk, a Smith tap, a Guerin grimace, Ewing's extra step, a competent coach pointing -- all before me, all reality at this level -- and last season and the season before and the season before and the season before all fade -- gone from my universe. The power!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 08, 2007, 09:40:39 AM
We can only give up two picks at a time, and Utah has our pick that is highly protected until 2010, until which it is completely unprotected. Stephon deal.

Pat Riley made the short-term gain / long-term pain deal that Kam is espousing and it worked (although the pain is yet to come). I'm all for an all in strategy that includes more than one of KG, JO, RonRon or Ray Ray. Added to Steph and Curry who aren't going anywhere.

ChipStern my question for you - if the kam/jaqd proposals were accepted (and I agree that it is a tad hopeful), don't you think that lineup would contend for the Eastern Conference title for at least 3 years? That's a 50-win team, right? Maybe 55 if Curry continues to improve like you yourself have said he would....Curry/KG/RonRon/Q/Steph with Mardy/Humpty/JJ Slim/Morris/Snacks off the bench + 1 FA signing at the 2 (I say either a Euro sniper or Mo Pete).

I say that lineup matches favourably with Detroit or Chicago.


Bo - Kirilenko was quite available 10 days ago. But his value is retreating to normal levels now. The dream is dead.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2007, 10:20:19 AM
We can only give up two picks at a time, and Utah has our pick that is highly protected until 2010, until which it is completely unprotected. Stephon deal.

Pat Riley made the short-term gain / long-term pain deal that Kam is espousing and it worked (although the pain is yet to come). I'm all for an all in strategy that includes more than one of KG, JO, RonRon or Ray Ray. Added to Steph and Curry who aren't going anywhere.

ChipStern my question for you - if the kam/jaqd proposals were accepted (and I agree that it is a tad hopeful), don't you think that lineup would contend for the Eastern Conference title for at least 3 years? That's a 50-win team, right? Maybe 55 if Curry continues to improve like you yourself have said he would....Curry/KG/RonRon/Q/Steph with Mardy/Humpty/JJ Slim/Morris/Snacks off the bench + 1 FA signing at the 2 (I say either a Euro sniper or Mo Pete).

I say that lineup matches favourably with Detroit or Chicago.


Bo - Kirilenko was quite available 10 days ago. But his value is retreating to normal levels now. The dream is dead.

".....until 2010, whenit is completely unprotected."

Don't remind us


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 08, 2007, 10:55:36 AM
Chip did you say?

Nellie's Warrior are playing like a pack of wild dawgs,

Why like dogs?

Just interested to know?

Thanks


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 12:01:40 PM
Chip did you say?

Nellie's Warrior are playing like a pack of wild dawgs,

Why like dogs?

Just interested to know?

Thanks

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a simile is just like a cigar. -Kam


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 08, 2007, 01:22:32 PM
Quote from: connectivity999 on Today at 10:55:36 AM
Chip did you say?

Nellie's Warrior are playing like a pack of wild dawgs,

Why like dogs?

Just interested to know?

Thanks


Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a simile is just like a cigar. -kam

..............................................................................

So what your saying is: It is what it is?

They are a pack of wild dawgs?

I dont see it that way.

I see a team where all the players in the 5 can put the ball on the floor like a guard, all the 5 can shoot the 3 ptr - They make a lot of akward outside shots from 3 pt range.

they defend 7ftrs pretty well considering the tallest player is Harrington.

They look to shock the world...

I dont see anything but how my Dawg Jackson outplayed Dirk...How does that happen?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 01:34:12 PM
connectivity-

The Warriros blueprint reminds me of what Riley said a few years back before Miami had Shaq.  They asked him why he had so many swingmen who often played at the same time...Eddie Jones, DWade, Caron Butler, Rasul Butler to name a few... and he said that unless you have a dominant superstar its best to field a team of players who are flexible, fast, play multiple positions and generally cause matchup nightmares for the other team.

athletic, quick, agile, multi-position players sounds an awful like Nellie's mad dawgs.  I don't think it was meant as a slight against Baron's boys.  JRich is living up to the hype.  Still... they choked again in the final three minutes as in Dallas.

Utah might just be better.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 01:35:14 PM
Q: Which player do the Knicks have to get rid of this offseason?
* Nate Robinson
* Steve Francis
* Stephon Marbury
* Other


A: Yes

When one gets down to the Planck scale, some 19 orders of magnitude smaller than the elementary particle scale, quantum effects take over completely. The continuous space-time universe becomes discrete (current thoughts go) and there is no longer a half way from here to there. Planck time, some 43 orders of magnitude smaller than a second, is also conjectured to become discrete. Time no longer moves anywhere but becomes for each discrete three dimensional (or eleven dimensional) island a family of discrete time sub-islands, stationary. There is no time as we know it, all moments are equal and laid out before the Planck scale observer (whatever that might be), and we are present at the underpinnings of our universe, our galaxy, our birth and death, our Knick four dimensional instances, our Knick conquests (rarely seen), and our Knick disappointments -- each present forever more, since the Big Bang (if since makes sense), arranged in any order we wish.

I wish for a championship. I find the pieces I want (in my mind) from the Planck-scale-universe, I massage them, I whisper to them and they whisper back -- the chipmunk-cheeked Allan, the sly Reed wink, the earnest Bradley push-off, two Braun hands getting set, a Sprewell tomahawk, a Smith tap, a Guerin grimace, Ewing's extra step, a competent coach pointing -- all before me, all reality at this level -- and last season and the season before and the season before and the season before all fade -- gone from my universe. The power!

Welcome ex.

Now where are earl and emann with those ribs?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: vookaleer on May 08, 2007, 01:39:51 PM
I like Craw and Lee

but let's face it- if Curry is going to be the dominant player Zeke swears he's goign to be- he needs an immediate interior presence that Frye, Jeffereies, Lee, Malik, Bakmna, etc can't provide.

KG does. 

There is nothing wrong with trying to get KG without losing Lee.  Craw would have to go- he's the only player where the salary swap would be doable.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2007, 02:01:30 PM
Quote from: connectivity999 on Today at 10:55:36 AM
Chip did you say?

Nellie's Warrior are playing like a pack of wild dawgs,

Why like dogs?

Just interested to know?

Thanks


Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a simile is just like a cigar. -kam

..............................................................................

So what your saying is: It is what it is?

They are a pack of wild dawgs?

I dont see it that way.

I see a team where all the players in the 5 can put the ball on the floor like a guard, all the 5 can shoot the 3 ptr - They make a lot of akward outside shots from 3 pt range.

they defend 7ftrs pretty well considering the tallest player is Harrington.

They look to shock the world...

I dont see anything but how my Dawg Jackson outplayed Dirk...How does that happen?



Biedrins


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 08, 2007, 03:43:06 PM
Andris Biedrins is playing well...he blocks a few shots for them...I like that guy

I looked at the stats and GS lost Q1, won Q2, basically tied Q3 and got outplayed by homecourt advantage in Q4.

Its going to be a blowout in GS, Mark my words!

If Utah cant put these guys away in blowout fashion at home...GS will gain confidence and look to totally take the momentum in GS (home).
------------------------------------------------
Chicago looked totally outclassed in that series.  Hienrick is getting destroyed by Rip...PJ Brown was sitting on the bench fumming..

I know he was like...why is Nochionni in the game and cant hit a shot...when PJ knows he can play in a hostile playoff environment and hit the 15 footer regularly...Scott Skiles needs to make some adjustments and he should start by bringing in a new starting 5

Duhon PG
Deng SG
PJ Brown PF
B wallace C
Tyrus Thomas SF

Bring Gordon off the bench, make him earn his minutes...and stay out of foul trouble.
Noccionni should come in and hit the 3 or sit
Hienrick needs to calm down and take high percentage shots only...

Defensively put Deng on Rip
Tyrus on Tayshon
PJ on rasheed
Ben Wallace on Webber
Duhon on Chauncey

I see a sweep coming together...if Hienrick and Gordon dont get it going.  Detroit is in Chicagos head!

I hope Steve Nash fixed his nose

I want the Suns to win...but Tim Duncan knows he can out play Amare now...
I say start Barbosa bring Nash on slowly....

NBA basketball fantastic!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 04:16:29 PM
It would be nice if 6th man of the year barbosa could've kept his team afloat.  What a joke that vote was.  Barbosa couldn't milk a bucket out of that high-powered offense when it counted?  Yeah, guess not. 

Rooting hard for the Spurs


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 08, 2007, 04:37:49 PM
Scoring against the Spurs in a close playoff game is no easy feat. I wouldn't be so hard on Leanardinho, Kam. But I agree that Nash would probably have done a better job.


---

Renaldo didn't make the All-Rookie Second team, unfortunately. Surprised that Herrmann and Marcus Williams and Craig Smith made it ahead of Humpty. But alas, I've not reviewed the stats, just going by feeling, which is often tendentious.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 04:50:21 PM
Scoring against the Spurs in a close playoff game is no easy feat. I wouldn't be so hard on Leanardinho, Kam. But I agree that Nash would probably have done a better job.


---

Renaldo didn't make the All-Rookie Second team, unfortunately. Surprised that Herrmann and Marcus Williams and Craig Smith made it ahead of Humpty. But alas, I've not reviewed the stats, just going by feeling, which is often tendentious.

Would any team trust Barbosa to start as their PG?
Would any decent team?  Damn the NBA hype machine.

Tmac and YaoMing need to stop filming commercials.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2007, 05:05:03 PM
a-hole of th week:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05062007/sports/van_gundy_retires___again_sports_peter_vecsey.htm


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 05:13:25 PM
a-hole of th week:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05062007/sports/van_gundy_retires___again_sports_peter_vecsey.htm

There's always next week kid, i'm pulling for ya


Who is it you're angry at: Vescey or JVG?  I thought JVG wasn't under contract anyway.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2007, 06:40:02 PM
Vescey jumps the gun.  He's LOST in this town now, sadly trying to get his name back in the spotlight.

Jeff has a non-guaranteed deal, which HOU can nix after 6/30.

Pete decided he'd state that Jeff was leaving.

Guess what -

1)  Jeff may very well leave, mutually deciding with the Rockets that a new deal is not best for the organization (coaches generally do not coach the last year of their deal)

2)  PV's a moron one way or the other.. He says Jeff had decided a while back he was gone.  Pure mythology.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NYKnicks12 on May 08, 2007, 09:36:00 PM
Been nostalgic all day today...  37 years.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 10:52:25 PM
Some ..ok most.. of you might laugh but here's a crazy notion i'm about to propose...

We all are witnessing how PHX panicked and started KT in game 2 against Duncan, first play, slides right by slap on wrist by Durty Kurty for the foul.

It got me thinking ... the guy who defends Duncan really well that the Suns could use is... Malik Rose!!  Seriously!!

How about a package of N8/Malik to PHX? For something good.  Don't they have a lotto pick this year?  Is this notion too far-fetched?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 08, 2007, 11:09:40 PM
For Pat Burke - done.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 08, 2007, 11:27:30 PM
For Pat Burke - done.

Boris Diaw's star has fallen a bit.


Title: Suns
Post by: chipstern on May 09, 2007, 01:26:14 AM
Pretty good spanking by Phoenix. 

Nash is a champ. 

KT made Duncan work for every point. 

Sorry Kam, but I'm pulling for a Phoenix-Detroit final. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 09, 2007, 01:35:35 AM
I'm wishing for that very same matchup.

How about a package of N8/Malik to PHX? For something good.   Is this notion too far-fetched?

Not at all. Let's ask for Kurt Thomas. Tonight's game made me nostalgic for undersized centers who could play a lil' defense.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 08:59:23 AM
Cleveland vs Detroit

The winner of the Suns /Spurs vs Utah/GS

I say San Antonio vs Detroit....

I would like to see the Bulls vs the Suns but not going to happen


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 09, 2007, 09:00:05 AM
Some ..ok most.. of you might laugh but here's a crazy notion i'm about to propose...

We all are witnessing how PHX panicked and started KT in game 2 against Duncan, first play, slides right by slap on wrist by Durty Kurty for the foul.

It got me thinking ... the guy who defends Duncan really well that the Suns could use is... Malik Rose!!  Seriously!!

How about a package of N8/Malik to PHX? For something good.  Don't they have a lotto pick this year?  Is this notion too far-fetched?

Yeah, but Malik couldn't perform that consistent pick and pop like KT does.  Watching him hit that 15ft jumper over and over again brought back great memories.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 09, 2007, 09:03:12 AM
Good point Kurt thomas would have been the perfect compliment to Curry, he defends and he'll give Curry and out when he's double teamed because he's a smart ball player who knows where to be to rescue a bad shot or collect a pass from a double team . That 15 footer of his is as sweet as pie. BIG UP KURT THOMAS always a knick in my book.   NOw where can we find a younger version of kurt.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Dzimas on May 09, 2007, 10:44:19 AM
I guess the Knicks forum has become the de facto NBA forum, which explains all the posts.  What is with it Houston?  They look so good in the beginning but peter out in the end of their series.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 09, 2007, 11:51:44 AM
Dzimas - Good question. Possibilities I see:

1. JVG overcoaches, so the players are not equipped to take over to think on their own when plays break down (don't buy it)

2. Like Avery, JVG is incredibly intense. The team adopts this intensity and becomes tightly wound-up, which hurts them as the pressure increases. Just as Dallas has choked two years running (some merit)

3. Houston is in the wrong conference (some merit)

4. Not athletic enough, especially in the power positions (some merit)

5. Lack of a floor general with a high bball IQ. (some merit, but you would think Battier, McGrady and Yao would cover for that)

6. Poor leadership by McGrady (nope)




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 09, 2007, 11:53:38 AM
Jaqd - I think David Lee may be able develop a reliable 15 footer. If Camby and Mikki Moore can do it, it is certainly possible. But we have no rotation player at the moment who offers us that type of low-post D


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 12:20:45 PM
NBA.COM HAS
Roy
Hibbert
Georgetown
7-2
Junior
coming to Knicks in Mock NBA draft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVUJ4-uy1dk


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2007, 12:45:53 PM
IF we ever did take Hibbert three things would happen:

1. The G-TOWN supporters of the Knicks would love it.  Isiah wins some sentiment and good will towards himself.
2. Ewing would more likely return in some coaching /mentoring capacity.  Remember we had Kareem a few years back?
3. Lee or Frye or both are bait for a wing.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 01:06:40 PM
There are 29 teams waiting for Kevin Garnett to force his way out of Minnesota. The Lakers want to pair him with Kobe Bryant. Chicago is convinced that Garnett would put them over the top and the Knicks, seeking instant credibility, want a face for their franchise.

And while the league dreams, Garnett continues to demonstrate why he is the rarest of superstars. Rather than complain and demand a one-way ticket out, Garnett places a premium on loyalty and says he wants to help the Timberwolves rebuild.

"I've always had great respect for Kevin," Isiah Thomas said yesterday. "He's a throwback kind of guy because he has really taken responsibility for wanting to do it for the team he plays for. He's not looking to hitch a ride to a championship.

"He wants to do it on his own. There have been a lot of great players who have tried to hitch rides to get one and haven't been successful at it. You've got to admire his loyalty to his teammates and his organization. He always leaves it up to the organization to make a decision as opposed to him making a decision."



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 01:18:51 PM
Meanwhile....

Isiah Thomas is shuffling the legal lineup for his off-the-court battle with fired Knicks exec Anucha Browne Sanders.

Out is veteran attorney Peter Parcher, who represented shock jock Howard Stern in his fight with CBS Radio and rapper R. Kelly in his spat with Jay-Z. In is Laurie Berke-Weiss, former president of the New York Women's Bar Association.

Parcher couldn't be reached for comment, and a representative from Berke-Weiss' firm declined to comment. Court papers filed in Manhattan Federal Court yesterday confirmed the substitution.

It gives Thomas an all-woman legal team for his upcoming fight with Sanders, who accuses the Knicks coach of asking her for sex, cursing her and refusing to let players participate in her marketing campaigns. Thomas is also represented by Sue Ellen Eisenberg, a Michigan attorney who specializes in employment and discrimination law.

Thomas spent his entire playing career with the Detroit Pistons.

Sanders, 43, was fired in January 2006. At the time, the Brooklyn native and college hoops star was one of the highest ranking female executives in the NBA.

A trial date has not been set.

Madison Square Garden executives have cast Sanders as a disgruntled employee whose claims are "frivolous and groundless."

 ----------------------------------------------------------------
Lesterdawg didnt you apply for the Bobcats job?  but they said Lester you dawg now accept it...

answer from lester: But Im calling you from my new comcast internet phone....

No: lester You dawg now...tatoo not come off.

A TASTE OF HERB: Knicks assistant Herb Williams was one of several candidates to interview for the Charlotte Bobcats' head coaching job, according to the Charlotte Observer Web site. Williams, who is also expected to interview for the Indiana Pacers' vacant head coaching position, has a good relationship with Michael Jordan, the Bobcats' director of basketball operations.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The general consensus is that the Lakers, with Kobe Bryant apoplectic about change (and I can't blame him), will make a big-time play for Garnett, who lives in Malibu and is friendly with Bryant. Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak seemed to concede prospect Andrew Bynum and everyone else but Bryant is available, though friends of Garnett insist he won't seek a trade and the Timberwolves, losing millions, will keep him and then save his salary if he leaves.


Do something and do it now," said Bryant, who is an old 28, having come in as a teenager and having played in 131 playoff games (Michael Jordan had played in 70 playoff games at the same age). "We are going on three years of still being on ground zero. When I re-signed here, they promised they would build a contender and build a contender now. I don't want to have to wait anymore."

Option B is said to be Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal. But sources say O'Neal already has told the Pacers he wants to be traded to the Knicks and former Pacers coach and close friend Isiah Thomas. Would the Pacers take Stephon Marbury or maybe a package with Steve Francis, Jared Jeffries and Channing Frye and the Bulls' first-round pick, which the Knicks own in the swap?

And would Minnesota now swap Garnett for Nowitzki? That would give Dallas the tough guy they feel they need after shriveling up for the Warriors, and it would give the Timberwolves a star and a good guy.

If the Lakers fail, Bryant has an opt-out after the 2008-09 season and the Bulls could be well under the salary cap by then.

Bryant told me he was serious about going to the Bulls before he re-signed with the Lakers, and highly regards the Bulls' organization and the way the team is being built. He's one player who has no fear of stepping into the Jordan legacy. In fact, he'd likely embrace it.

"I hate to even think about me going someplace else," Bryant said.

But he could, if all else fails.


bada Bing...
HBO's "The Sopranos" devoted a large part of last week's episode to character Tony Soprano gambling and a Stackhouse shot costing him. After the Nets beat the Raptors on Friday, actor James Gandolfini, who plays Soprano, was in the Nets' locker room. No action by the commissioner yet.


Title: Damn K9 You Beat Me To the Zeek-A-Mouse Gets Lawyered Up Post
Post by: lesterdog on May 09, 2007, 01:36:37 PM
breaking news-breaking news-Isiah Dumps His Attorney in Harass Suit-breaking news-breaking news

Brite Side: Maybe he'll be too busy fending off Anucha to trade David Lee for some broken-down old has been never was

and no, I ain't going down to Charlotte but I'd love to bring Gerald Wallace up here!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 09, 2007, 01:54:15 PM
Connectivity - Hibbert to the Knicks is nonsense. He's a top 7 pick. We draft 23rd.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 02:52:12 PM
Biz

see for yourself...
http://www.nba.com/features/draft2007_consensus.html

1. Greg Oden - memhis
2. Durant - Celtics...(knicks are in trouble if the get this kid)
3. Al Horford - Bucks
4.Brandon Wright - Hawks
5. jaokim Yoah - Sonics
6. Yi Jailin - blazers
7. Corey Brewer - Clipps
8.Lulian Wright - Bobcats
9.Roy Hibbert - Hoyas - NY KNicks (may be conveyed to Chicago)

so its the knicks pick they owe to chitown...sorry.


Gerald Wallace has stepped it up....its almost like he is on steroids or something...

anyway he is playing like Lebron or kobe...interesting


Title: Re: DRAFT
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 09, 2007, 02:59:02 PM
I like the last 4 players in this projected first round.

COOK very intriguing

http://nbadraft.net/


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2007, 03:43:42 PM
I think we should make a trade before we make the pick. 50/50 the pick gets traded in that deal.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 04:19:25 PM
Daequan Cook

6 ft 5
210

This guy has got to be good he is the same size as me...

seriously though...he looks like somebody the knicks could really use now...

Javaris Crittenton sounds good but no outside shot

Aaron Gray sounds good 7ft 1

Glen Davis really should have left last year...they have Big baby at #53.  He is a scorer....

Question: Could the Knicks use Big baby?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2007, 04:33:08 PM
Hey connect,

Whats wrong with your game that you're not in the NBA


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 09, 2007, 04:55:39 PM
injury to knee...

not quite good enough, take your pick but i love the game...how about you how come your not really coaching?

I can still take the dawg tho...ruff ruff


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 09, 2007, 05:10:27 PM
injury to knee...

not quite good enough, take your pick but i love the game...how about you how come your not really coaching?

I can still take the dawg tho...ruff ruff

Why waste my time on kids games when i can waste my time talking about kids games. Waitaminute... my life's been wasted!!

Who says I'd have to coach anyway, i think i'd cross you and that gimpy knee over!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 09, 2007, 06:20:37 PM
Q

What is with it Houston?  They look so good in the beginning but peter out in the end of their series.

A

Bad coaching


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 10, 2007, 12:00:47 AM
Where the knix pick, Marcus Williams seems to stand out. A shooter and scorer at SF. Q will be coming off back surgery and not much behind him. JC and Marcus would be a nightmare to defend.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 10, 2007, 12:32:26 AM
With Thomas on the floor, the Suns outscored the Spurs 61-40. Duncan scored 29 points, but Thomas wore him down in the fourth quarter, when Duncan was 1-for-4, and Thomas contributed 12 points, four rebounds and three steals. Stoudemire, unburdened from guarding Duncan most of the game, erupted for 27 points and stayed out of foul trouble.

Thomas, quiet and professional, was ready for this opportunity. "It's about being a veteran player," he said. "Whenever they call my number, I try to be prepared."

The Spurs will undoubtedly see more of him in the series, which resumes Saturday in San Antonio. "He's a heck of a defender," said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich. "He always has been."

That's not how he came into the league. At Texas Christian his final year, Thomas led the nation in scoring and rebounding. But he was drafted by the New York Knicks, where defense under Pat Riley and then Jeff Van Gundy was Thomas' ticket into the lineup.
"For me to play, I had to play defense," he said.

My how things change. With Zeke, it's the other way around.


Title: Dawg Pounding
Post by: chipstern on May 10, 2007, 12:39:15 AM
Chuckle.

Kirilenko's death widely exaggerated.

Deron Williams is a MAN.

Milsap!

Boozer appears to have recovered from his bad Hammy.

Utah just wearing them down.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 10, 2007, 01:29:03 AM
But he was drafted by the New York Knicks

really? Try again mr. factually incorrect.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Dzimas on May 10, 2007, 02:33:16 AM
Could this finally be the Suns' year?  They really look good, and game two showed that they are much deeper than they have ever been.  Detroit looks rock solid.  I think Cleveland will face the same wall Chicago finds itself up against.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 10, 2007, 08:49:39 AM
I still can't believe cleveland is playing this well, this team really sucks on paper besides Lebron the supporting cast doesn't seem like its capable of playing as well as they have. I mean Hughes is explosive as long as he stays healthy and Gooden is playing like a man possessed and to think halfway thru the season Lebron wanted his coach fired go figure.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2007, 09:52:39 AM
".......sucks beyond Lebron..."

Maybe in star power.......

Shows you a couple of things:

a) what can be accomplished with a REAL star (Isiah thoiught he was getting a Lebron type with Marbury)

b)  shows what a solid gameplan can accomplish.  2-way basketball in Cleveland.  Solid halfcourrt cerebral ball.
Isiah wants a track meet.  Niiiice.  Real nice.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 10, 2007, 10:56:30 AM
BTW - you know I have always liked Gooden.  As with Boozer, just taking the masses a while to come around to his skilz.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 10, 2007, 11:20:03 AM
I like the Brazilian they got.  Anderson Verajeo. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 10, 2007, 11:47:55 AM
Don't sleep on Pavlovic(h?) either he's finally developed some floor game.

As always this time of year, at least since 99, I'm seeing a bunch of guys I'd love to see on my squad. AK47, Boris Diaw, Kurt, Matrix or DoGooden would go very nicely next to Curry with Lee playing Caddy. Barnes, Jrich, Pavlov-ic(k?) Pietrius, Harpring would fill out our wing rotation. The trouble is that these guys are all performing well late into the playoffs, pricing them out of our range.

I think we are best off looking for help among the knocked off, like SAC, SEA, LAC, and Minny for example.

I'd put the odds of a pretraining camp trade of some kind at about 70% and at about 50-50 for one on draft day.

Also with Turiaff, Petro, Diaw, Gebalde, Batum, Pietrius, and Parker France has a good looking national team. If only Freddy Wiess had panned out. Ces't La Vie...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 10, 2007, 01:21:52 PM
I would have done something different...

I would have full court pressed Utah after both gaurds went down.  To allow a big lug like Kirilinko to bring the ball up and play make like a point gaurd is not acceptable.  PRESS THE HELL OUT OF HIM and make him turn it over.

When Deron went out Baron was supposed to use and abuse his replacement. Dee Brown..

when the Dee Brown goes down you start licking you chops because Derek Fisher was not available.
You Press them , Full Court Press! 

Those bigs for Utah are starting to wear down the smaller GS squad. It wont be long now before they are down 3 to 0. 

Meanwhile what if Lebron and crew beat Detroit?   what if Utah beats the winner of the Spurs / Suns?

Utah is getting more and more confident...they execute as well as San Antonio and they have size.

Check this out:

Boozer vs Duncan - Duncan...(actually Booker has probably avaeraged more than Timmy so far)
Okur vs the Ellison - Okur
AK47 vs Bowen - AK47
Deron vs Parker - Parker (but not by much)
Girichec vs Barry - Even

They match up well... Coaches are about even.

I like Ginobli and Milsap... as well as brewer and Horry.

I would really love to see this great match up in the west.

baron says they gave that game away and can still win it.  Well BDiddy its time to show and prove.

Derek Fisher , Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Lindsey Hunter, What in the world was the lakers thinking of?

I can undrstand Kobe and Shaq cant get along, Ok you trade Shaq...but why get rid of all the best role players in basketball?  These guys show they still have more in the tank.  Dumb move LA.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2007, 02:24:06 AM
Cavs still only an above average team. 
They just got the lucky road.
A depleted Wiz team and a thin Nets squad.
Detroit will murder them (in 6).

As for Houston, they have too many inexperienced players.
Nobody there has had playoff success.
And two weak starters (PG and PF).
Utah is a better team.
Not sure why folks sell them short.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 11, 2007, 10:53:27 AM
Bo - I think you said it well in the other thread, it's a matter of big names. Yao and T-Mac are bigger than Boozer and Deron, irrespective of which team was better suited for playoff success. I think the Rockets face a tough road, by the way. Hard to improve at PG and PF with the assets they have. And I'm not convinced another coach is going to do a much better job than JVG, unless they get Larry Brown (don't get started...he was the wrong coach for this job/organisation, but he may well work in Houston).

Detroit absolutely manhandled Chicago yesterday. That second-half was demoralising for Chicago fans - they were booing early and often.

By the way, beating a team in six games is not "murdering" them. That's a reasonably close series.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 11:37:04 AM
Cleveland took Detroit to game7 last year.  This year the Pistons have Webber though, so we shall see.   All i know if that the EC playoffs have been very boring so far.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 11:41:43 AM
“Renaldo is like a bar of soap,” said Frye.

“You can’t grab hold of him. He’s just everywhere. That energy…Simply amazing.”



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 11, 2007, 12:15:15 PM
All i know if that the EC playoffs have been very boring so far.

Damn shame we didn't make it to the show. Imagine the excitement.

Game 1: Pistons hammer Knicks 66-49. Post game: Isiah complains about Pistons' "gratuitous 4th quarter scoring."

Game 2: Zeek has Mardy, Drunken Master, and JJSlim goon Rasheed in waning moments of 65-57 loss. Nate spontaneously whips it out and pees on Chris Webber who is being hogtied by JJFats.

Game 3: Down 3 suspended starters (Big Snacks has been starting as well, though D.Lee is healthy and available), Knicks lose 82-51 at home. Post game: Isiah focuses on "unsupportive" garden crowd when talking about the loss rather than Eddy Curry's NBA record 17 turnovers.

Game 4: 91-63 and off to summer vacation. Afterwards, Zeek is unavailable for comment on the advice of his new lawyer, but issues statement praising  team for putting up a good fight, notes they overcame being coached by Larry Brown as recently as 12 months ago. Dolan extends extension and pronounces Zeek "GM for Life". Quoted as saying: "If it works well enough for Mugabe and Zimbabwe, it's good enough for the Knicks."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 12:23:40 PM
Nate spontaneously whips it out and pees on Chris Webber

Spit-Take! The fact that you could even think this up shows how bad Nate's rep has gotten.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 11, 2007, 01:04:42 PM
Scarily, the most believable part of the whole scenario......


Title: If it does happen, look out East.
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 01:34:16 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski

Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:53 pm EDT

SALT LAKE CITY -- As Jermaine O'Neal tries to conduct some public damage control about his understood desire to leave the Indiana Pacers, his old teammate, Golden State's Stephen Jackson, says he knows how badly O'Neal wants a trade from Indy.

"I don't think he has any patience (left), but Jermaine is the ultimate professional," Jackson told Yahoo! Sports on Wednesday. "But he wants to get out of there because all of the guys they brought in to build the team around him are gone now. Me, Ron (Artest) and Al (Harrington). I've heard rumors that (Jamaal) Tinsley wants to leave, too.

"I just hope J.O. gets put in the best situation because he is a great player."

O'Neal, 28, is playing semantics with his trade request to Pacers executives. Request? Demand? Whatever he wants to call it, it's been made clear to Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird that the 6-foot-11 All-Star would rather leave than stay. At the top of his list of destinations are the Los Angeles Lakers to join Kobe Bryant and the New York Knicks to be reunited with Isiah Thomas.

"I talked to him a while back, and he was saying that if he did get traded he would want to go to those two teams," Jackson said. "Isiah and Jermaine are good friends. If it does happen, look out East. Him and (Eddy) Curry in the paint are going to be a monster. But him and Kobe will be a monster, too."

With as much success as the eight-player mid-season trade involving Jackson and Harrington has brought Golden State, there is only more pressure on Walsh and Bird to get maximum value for O'Neal.

After finishing 35-47 and missing the playoffs for the first time in a decade, the Pacers appear to be in full rebuilding mode. O'Neal wants no part of starting over with the franchise.

"It's going to have to be the perfect deal (to get O'Neal out), because you know from the deal they made with us (landing Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy) it didn't work out for them," Jackson said. "They don't want to make a bad deal again. I think it would have to be a perfect deal.

"Hopefully it works for him because you play so much better when you're somewhere you want to be, in a place where you are wanted. That's why I'm having so much success here, because they've embraced me like a newborn."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2007, 01:57:11 PM
Full rebuilding mode?  Indiana?

Bulls*it

Check the roster, peeps.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2007, 02:20:58 PM
Bo - I think you said it well in the other thread, it's a matter of big names. Yao and T-Mac are bigger than Boozer and Deron, irrespective of which team was better suited for playoff success. I think the Rockets face a tough road, by the way. Hard to improve at PG and PF with the assets they have. And I'm not convinced another coach is going to do a much better job than JVG, unless they get Larry Brown (don't get started...he was the wrong coach for this job/organisation, but he may well work in Houston).

By the way, beating a team in six games is not "murdering" them. That's a reasonably close series.
Yeah, I was kind of making fun of my own prediction.  I think Detroit is better and will beat the Cavs, but LBJ & Co. will put up a fight.  Though D in 5 wouldn't surprise me either.

I think Juwann is an ending deal, so he could be moved at the deadline to a team needing a PF and looking for cap relief.  I actually thought Spannoulis would play well and be the starting PG by January.  Not sure what happened with him.  A month back I caught replays of the World Championships, and there was Spannoulis taking charges from Dwade, running pick and rolls, driving for layups, and hitting outside bombs.  Then he'd come in for a few minutes for Houston and throw the ball away, commit fouls, etc..  I also thought Bonzi was a nice pickup, contract year and all, and he was out of shape and injured.  Houston needs some revamping.  But put a good passing PG along side Yao, TMac, and Battier (and Head), and the Rockets could look pretty good. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2007, 02:27:55 PM
Burying the Nets?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 11, 2007, 02:47:04 PM
I actually claimed the Nets would win the series, because I'm not impressed with Cleveland.  But the Nets are just so lightweight up front that it's hard for them to win.  Unless Kidd is going to get 20 rebounds.  Also I thought Kidd looked a bit slow and distracted in Game 2.  Might be more banged up than he's admitting.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 11, 2007, 05:53:52 PM
Hey Kid - you jest at the thought of the Pacers rebuilding. I understand it is difficult to look to next year without knowing who their coach will be (Stan Van Gundy is my prediction) or whether they sign any key free agents, but how positive do you think things look for them?

EC Top tier: Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Miami
Second tier: Toronto, Washington, New Jersey
Third tier: Everybody else. Orlando, New York and Indiana only slightly ahead of the other teams, who pass these three teams if they get Durant or Oden.

I would suspect one would have to put a lot of faith in the team developing well with a training camp etc (since Murphy and Dunleavy did not have this) or expect a "leap" from either Granger or Diogu to expect them to jump a tier.

My suggestion is to trade JO, shedding Dunleavy and Tinsley in the process for contracts that end in two years. Blow the whole thing up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 11, 2007, 06:29:02 PM
Tier, man the East has Detroit and thats about it. Granted, the Knicks have trouble with scoring teams like Washington and always the Nets. Toronto is rising, but how far?

The Knicks need something mean next to Eddy Curry and a solid 3pt shooter. Francis is not part of the solution. Nate only stays if he learns to play defense. Eddy also has to seriously cut down on the turnovers, thats why the Knicks looked good without Curry for stretches, because those turnovers are like -2 points, with the easy transition buckets.

Francis needs to go, his outside shot is too suspect and he doesn't create assits. Unfortunately, Indy will want Crawford so we already need to think shooter replacement. Would love to keep Lee and Balkman. Seen enough of Jeffries and have serious reservations about James ever yielding anything. Looks like Morris was a steal though he might be needed in a trade.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 06:59:19 PM
Isiah might be thinking that with Morris and Balkman, Lee is bait.

Crawford, Lee, Frye, the #23 pick, and Malik (salary purposes) for JO?

With JO, every other PF on our roster is going to take the hit in minutes so they can go.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 11, 2007, 07:03:28 PM
Dolan extends extension and pronounces Zeek "GM for Life".

BTW,

What were the terms of Isiah’s extension, if anybody knows?

I want to begin the necessary psychological preparations.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 07:07:02 PM
SL:

Curry
Oneal
Balkman
Marbury
Collins

Backups:

Morris
N8
JJ-slims

IL:

Francis
JJ-fats


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 11, 2007, 07:29:51 PM
pronounces Zeek "GM for Life".

If 8th place for a day is the standard that Dolan has for the Knicks, Isiah just might be GM for life.

Dolan has the same "close enough" standards as Isiah’s mother’s spelling teacher.

Is it possible that Isiah is Oprah’s brother?

[Both possess mispelt (sic) Biblical names.]


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 11, 2007, 10:39:11 PM
SL:

Curry
Oneal
Balkman
Marbury
Collins

Backups:

Morris
N8
JJ-slims

IL:

Francis
JJ-fats

Whothefok is Morris?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 11, 2007, 11:05:20 PM
Randolph Morris. 6'11, 265 C, Kentucky

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=32 (http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=32)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 12, 2007, 02:05:38 AM
Damn Kam, thats a lot to give up for J.Oneal...........I just get a little worried with the Knicks being so snake bitten, J. Oneal will be end up being out the season with a hang nail or something and we'd have an empty cupboard. I'd have some reservations giving up Lee in the deal. Frye and Crawford, fair enough. Throw in Morris as potential incentive. If we give up both Frye and Lee, who backs up the PF slot? What if Oneal gets injured? Hmmmmm. Of course, we all know Oneal ends up in LA cuz Bird is an anti-NY scumbag.

Should be an interesting off-season. I'd be shocked if the Knicks didn't let loose 1 trade, Zeke is sure unpredictable so whatever we think will happen, probably won't.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Dzimas on May 12, 2007, 02:58:30 AM
Looks like another 7-game series for the Jazz.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2007, 03:09:24 AM
Damn Kam, thats a lot to give up for J.Oneal...........I just get a little worried with the Knicks being so snake bitten, J. Oneal will be end up being out the season with a hang nail or something and we'd have an empty cupboard. I'd have some reservations giving up Lee in the deal. Frye and Crawford, fair enough. Throw in Morris as potential incentive. If we give up both Frye and Lee, who backs up the PF slot? What if Oneal gets injured? Hmmmmm. Of course, we all know Oneal ends up in LA cuz Bird is an anti-NY scumbag.

Should be an interesting off-season. I'd be shocked if the Knicks didn't let loose 1 trade, Zeke is sure unpredictable so whatever we think will happen, probably won't.

trains. i'd like to keep LEE too but you gotta figure Bird will demand him. Maybe they rather take Morris than have Frye.  Fine by me i guess. And don't worry bud. The cupboard won't be bare.  This will let Isiah the GM find some players beating the bushes and whatnot.  Hungry role players.

Curry, JO, and Marbury give us three scoring options on the floor and Balkman and Collins provide the counter-balance on the defensive end.  Plus JO is rock solid defensively.


Title: Trade Winds
Post by: chipstern on May 12, 2007, 12:37:51 PM
Crawford, Lee, Frye, the #23 pick, and Malik (salary purposes) for JO?  

There are no words.

I am appalled. 



Title: Re: Trade Winds
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2007, 01:24:06 PM
Crawford, Lee, Frye, the #23 pick, and Malik (salary purposes) for JO?  

There are no words.

I am appalled. 



Think in through.  We would be getting an elite PF on defense and offense.  All our other PFs would take a major hit in playing time and trade value.  Plus you have to give (Lee,Frye) to get.  Giving them Crawford and Malik balances out salary and makes us better by getting us out from under the JCraw no-defense, erratic shooting contract.

Collins and Balkman would have time open up for them to play. N8 and Morris would get time to play.  Marbury could move to the SG while the Collins adds to the defense at PG.

WE'D INSTANTLY BE REAL CONTENDERS.

But go ahead, be appalled your 33 win team is being broken up.


Title: Re: Trade Winds
Post by: bodiddley on May 12, 2007, 01:33:01 PM
Crawford, Lee, Frye, the #23 pick, and Malik (salary purposes) for JO?  
There are no words.
I am appalled. 
Well, Indy already has alot of big men, including Foster for rebounds, Harrison at C, Diogu, Murphy.  Also Granger and Dunleavy at the SF.
So they don't really have room/need for two more borderline-starting Bigs.  And they need shooters/ball-handlers.

I'd do Craw, Frye, #23, and Nate (swapping Nate for Lee).
Or give them Lee but keep Frye (who is able to play both PF/C).
If we give them Lee, I'd like to dump a JJ contract on them, instead of Malik.
Likely Indy would want to dump Dunleavy or Tinsley in any deal.

Also, we'd probably need it to be a s&t as O'Neal has an opt-out after next season.  Can't give up a lot of yute for a one year rental.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 12, 2007, 02:47:27 PM
all this talk of JO and we're forgetting about the low budget we also should aquire Im talking bout none other than RON RON,  consider him a knick next season no one else wants him and NY would be the ideal place to rebuild your stock. Throw whatever trades you want at indy for JO but do not forget to save a chip for ol ron ron.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 12, 2007, 04:29:08 PM
all this talk of JO and we're forgetting about the low budget we also should aquire Im talking bout none other than RON RON,  consider him a knick next season no one else wants him and NY would be the ideal place to rebuild your stock. Throw whatever trades you want at indy for JO but do not forget to save a chip for ol ron ron.

Sacramento will hold onto Ron i think until the trade deadline.  Then decide what to do with him because his next year he could opt-out of his 8mil guarantee.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 12, 2007, 04:56:53 PM
Guys that are true distractions will be dealt with this summer. Both Ron Ron and Francis are knocking on that door. It will be hard for Zeke to get value back for him, they know we'll cut and run and then they can get him cheap. Of course, there is a pecking order for him then?....but he can refuse and sign anywhere. Why pick up the huge salary?


Title: Re: Trade Winds
Post by: rembee on May 13, 2007, 11:31:21 AM
Likely Indy would want to dump Dunleavy or Tinsley in any deal.


If they are serious about rebuilding, yes.  But Kiid is right, look at their salary structure and it doesn't look like a rebuilding team.

Kiid and I had a conversation about this (what seems like) years back about KG, and the T-Wolves dumping Wally along with him to cut salary.

Now the Pacers are holding pretty hefty long-term contracts on Tinsley, Dunleavy and Murphy.  That’s $30 million/year of salary until 2011 for three uninspiring players (Bird and Thomas may have more in common than either would like to admit), not the profile of a rebuilding team.

Still, their total salary isn't that high, and if they managed to save money on O'Neal's deal they would instantly be in play in the free-agent market.  They have a few young players you can start to picture as part of your core, particularly Granger.  But Murphy and Dunleavy don't figure to be part of that core once it picks up steam (that’s my opinion, Bird probably thinks they will be) so while they would not need to dump the salaries of the two players they acquired in what I think was the worst trade of the last few years, man it would sure help. 

I'm sure Isiah Thomas would oblige, too, if Bird would deal with him.  Problem is we don't really have contracts that would save Bird money.  Rose is the closest thing we have to an ending contract and he is owed almost $15 million over the next two seasons.  That would mean that practically (like us) they wouldn't be players in the FA market until the end of the 2008/09 season .  So the Knicks might not be a good fit.  Isiah likely would offer David Lee now that Balkman is looking like a viable player who brings many of the same qualities, and that would be the one player in the deal Bird might actually be interested in.  He is a better player than Diogu and Foster while both of those guys could probably be moved in another deal.  Even if you do add Crawford and Frye (forgetting if that is a good deal for us for a moment),  is that enough talent to match up with O'Neal in what would then pretty much be a talent-for-talent deal?  I'm doubtful.

By the way, yes, O'Neal has an option on his contract next year, but at almost 20 million (with over 44 million coming the next two years) he would be crazy not to pick it up.  So I don't think the rental issue should enter into the thinking.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 14, 2007, 02:32:04 AM
Hey rembee, no fair bringing facts and figures into our speculation.
I've been a little lazy on looking up stats and info lately (partly summer, partly computer woes).  Didn't realize JO'N was making so much. 

Utah!  Just wish I could see these games.
This is the thinnest playoff coverage of the decade in China.
I seem to only get Suns-Spurs live.
And nothing seems to be rebroadcast (I think).

Interesting in the Phoenix series how both teams have their SF defending the point.
Surprised that hasn't gotten more attention. 
Odd how last game the Suns didn't seem to realize that Ginobili almost always goes left.
I hate when I have to shout defensive instructions to the Tv.


Title: Progress
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2007, 06:40:53 AM
Trying to recollect...

Was it in the post-fight epoch that we beat Utah and Detroit in close games? 

One victory against the Bulls and a few spankings, a couple of wins against Cleveland.  Did we beat GS?  I think we beat Miami twice.  Competitive against Phoenix and Dallas in at least one game before fading. 

Not all bad. 

Not sure that Isiah is going to be Trader Vic. 

Give to get, Kam?  Fair enough.  Your trade is still utterly absurd.  But hey, knock yourself out. 

I could see anyone you mentioned included in a trade, but not ALL + a #1. 

As for Morris, give me a break.  You think we should trade Lee and Frye and depend on this kid?  I liked what I saw, too, but he has a long ways to go. 

Is next weekend the lottery or the following week? 



Title: Re: Progress
Post by: rembee on May 14, 2007, 07:36:09 AM

Was it in the post-fight epoch that we beat Utah and Detroit in close games? 

Immediately afterwards, with Marbury hitting the game-winning lay-up on Okur, followed by the David Lee tip-shot to beat Charlotte in OT.  It was Crawford who roasted Detroit in overtime for that win.

Kind of the Knicks season in a nutshell...stepping up to challenge the top teams, then playing down to the level of their competition in a letdown, though that Charlotte game happened to end in a moment that will go down in Knick history (or at least destined to be endlessly repeated in the hyped-up MSG ads).

So how does Isiah get these guys to play like every game is against Detroit?




Title: Re: Progress
Post by: lesterdog on May 14, 2007, 09:02:36 AM
So how does Isiah get these guys to play like every game is against Detroit?
Well, for starters:

a) Start your hustle & rebounding monster rather than either of your hapless midlevel free agent pickups.

b) play defenders and shotblockers Renaldo Balkman and Jerome Cato as frontcourt reserves rather than going  four guard with chumps like Stevie Francis and Nate Robinson.

It ain't brain surgery, if you have a brain


Title: Some kind of contagious disease must be affecting hall-of-fame NBA coaches:
Post by: lesterdog on May 14, 2007, 09:08:16 AM
Buss also acknowledged he doesn't like it when Phil Jackson puts down his players in the press (he plans to talk to him about it) and claimed the Zen Hen had a say with the team's makeup in the last few years. Last summer in an organizational meeting, Buss revealed Jackson signed off on the team and said he could go far with that roster.
"For Phil to make comments about being frustrated about the personnel is a copout," Buss said.


If I'm Buss I fire his ass and replace him with a bunny luv type like Zeek. Actually just replace him with Zeek. Lakers will finish 33-49, but they'll COME TOGETHER AS A TEAM.



Title: Re: Progress
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2007, 01:47:29 PM
Trying to recollect...

Was it in the post-fight epoch that we beat Utah and Detroit in close games? 

One victory against the Bulls and a few spankings, a couple of wins against Cleveland.  Did we beat GS?  I think we beat Miami twice.  Competitive against Phoenix and Dallas in at least one game before fading. 

Not all bad. 

Not sure that Isiah is going to be Trader Vic. 

Give to get, Kam?  Fair enough.  Your trade is still utterly absurd.  But hey, knock yourself out. 

I could see anyone you mentioned included in a trade, but not ALL + a #1. 

As for Morris, give me a break.  You think we should trade Lee and Frye and depend on this kid?  I liked what I saw, too, but he has a long ways to go. 

Is next weekend the lottery or the following week? 



"Is next weekend the lottery or the following week?"

Why would we care?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 14, 2007, 01:48:10 PM
Kam - that is giving up an awful lot. JO is not Tim Duncan. He doesn't guarantee us a spot in the ECFs and ensure that we are legit contenders for the title. Further, if he gets injured (a likely scenario given his recent history), there is little on the bench behind him.

As a person, JO is one of my favourites in the league, mind you. Along with Elton Brand, Ray Allen, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, and Etan Thomas he is one of my favourites because, like the rest, he's got character and he usually is thoughtful when he speaks. But Jalen Rose was my absolute favourite player in terms of what he had to say, and he wasn't a fit here either.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 14, 2007, 02:26:51 PM
You guys are always looking for role models, Im looking for a competitive team that plays new yawk style of ball. Id take Artest. Wallace , Stephen Jackson and whatever other malcontent you can think of to bring the ballz back the mecca. I want more get up in ya face emotions from my knicks not these lil wussy foot characters who play with no passion. Yall will take them just because they have good character but Im looking for players who know how to play ball.  PERIOD


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2007, 02:39:42 PM
Well, there's ball and then there's BALL.

Know the difference and we'll talk.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2007, 03:55:09 PM
Kam - that is giving up an awful lot. JO is not Tim Duncan. He doesn't guarantee us a spot in the ECFs and ensure that we are legit contenders for the title. Further, if he gets injured (a likely scenario given his recent history), there is little on the bench behind him.

As a person, JO is one of my favourites in the league, mind you. Along with Elton Brand, Ray Allen, Chris Webber, Allen Iverson, Steve Nash, and Etan Thomas he is one of my favourites because, like the rest, he's got character and he usually is thoughtful when he speaks. But Jalen Rose was my absolute favourite player in terms of what he had to say, and he wasn't a fit here either.

Giving up a lot?  Depends what your goal is and your timeline:

David Lee, and the #23 pick is the core of an attractive package but not enough. Malik and Craw are filler, and either Frye or N8 to seal the deal.  I don't think thats giving up a lot to get a franchise changing talent like JO.

Other than JO, who can we get at PF that could create that killer combo with EC?

Boozer? Okafor? Brand? Garnett?

None of them are available.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 14, 2007, 04:05:20 PM
I don't think we need a scorer at 4. We need a gritty rebounder. And I'm not convinced that JO is that guy.

The best guys in the league to place next, in my opinion, to Curry are not necessarily the ones you mention, but Marcus Camby, Nene, Ben Wallace, PJ Brown, Tyson Chandler, Emeka Okafor perhaps Nick Collison or Andris Bierdins. Anyhow, Lee does not provide the shot-blocking that most of these guys do, nor the position defence. But the possibility that he can learn the latter is cause enough for me to hold back trading him for JO unless we think we can have a contender in the next 3 years. I'll give up each and every one of our youth if we have a genuine chance at a title. I'm not convinced JO next to Curry provides that.

KG, on the other hand...

Also, I don't consider Crawford or Frye filler, though I would like to see both moved for pieces that fit better.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 14, 2007, 04:11:26 PM
-  JO

-  next to Curry

-  with a straw different than Marbles

Nash wasn't coming, but we weren't interested anyway, which says plenty.

Behooves management to consider all backcourt options, inclusive of dealing the LOT OF EM.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2007, 04:37:44 PM
JO gets you 9 boards and 2 blocks. Between Curry and JO you will get 35-40 points a night no problem - if JO is good to go...

I still would not do it

I am with Jaq

We should put something out there for RON

My perferred deal also includes Reef as well

something like Jefferies, Frye and Rose for Artest and AbdurRahim or N8 Frye and Rose for the same...

We get a force of nature or a short term disaster in Ron and a Vet PF with an 15 footer to back up Lee in Reef.

Curry Morris
Lee Reef
Artest Balkman
Collins Q
Marbs Craw

Oh yeah we'd have to dump Francis to avoid the headcase critical mass


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2007, 04:44:10 PM
What I like best about that is the 4 man rotation of perimeter defenders

Artest Balkman
Collins Q

You could call them Kobe's long night

Our starting unit's strengths would be perimeter D and Interior O. Its a strong team that would wear a lot of clubs out over 48 minutes

I'd also rather have Diop than Morris as my backup Center, that would answer the major deficiency left which would be shotblocking


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2007, 04:47:03 PM
Last thought

for RON insurance, draft this guy http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2045 (http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2045)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2007, 04:54:37 PM
Diop re-upped with Dallas.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2007, 04:57:31 PM
The best guys in the league to place next, in my opinion, to Curry are not necessarily the ones you mention, but Marcus Camby, Nene, Ben Wallace, PJ Brown, Tyson Chandler, Emeka Okafor perhaps Nick Collison or Andris Bierdins.

PJ's about to retire and has long expressed his disdain for the NY Knicks.  I don't want him.
Marcus Camby and NeNe hilario you can forget as Denver will be loathe to deal with us.
Plus, we had our shot with those guys once.

Ben Wallace and Tyson Chandler are expensive and don't have enough offensive game to justify trading away big chunks of your future for.

Okafor Collison and Biedrins are young enough and cheap enough.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 14, 2007, 05:10:32 PM
Kam we don't have the chips for those guys. Maybe Collinson in some kind of package, but otherwise our small salaries aren't good enough, even Lee and our draft pick is too mediocre.

Sacto HAS TO jettison Ron before a quality coach will agree to come on board. Lets kick a team while its down for once


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 14, 2007, 05:51:43 PM
Other than JO, who can we get at PF that could create that killer combo with EC?

Jeez, I don't know, how about David Lee for fuck's sake? 

Starters: Curry-Lee-Q-Jamal-Steph

Reserves: Frye-Jeffries-Balkman-N8-Mardy

11-15 [Watch This Space for Further Developments]: Malik Rose, Randolph Morris, Jerome James, Kelvin Cato, Steve Francis

Not sure if I wouldn't reverse Balkman for Q.  Lee and Balkman both need to develop something akin to a midrange jumper. 

Might Knicks buy out Francis AND Jerome? 

At this point, Makes more sense of Channing to be pencilled in as back-up center, where he would be more effective on offense with Eddy on the bench, and Jared (or Malik or Randolph) could be his caddy. 

Lot of ifs, obviously, not the least of which is Quentin's health, Lee's health, Jamal's health, Stephon's health, Frye's head, Jeffries' head, N8's head. 

But Mardy's emergence means Stephon can play some SG and less minutes overall or he will breakdown even further, though clearly, time is catching up.  And Jamal ain't going anywhere...I know his limitations, and I am in the minority, but I like his game. 

What are the chances of Eddy developing a dependable jumper, and Frye a consistent box game? 

What are the chances...of some DEFENSE, huh? 

Cue Lester and theme music...if I only had a brain.....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 14, 2007, 06:06:53 PM
Other than JO, who can we get at PF that could create that killer combo with EC?

Jeez, I don't know, how about David Lee for fuck's sake? 

Starters: Curry-Lee-Q-Jamal-Steph

Reserves: Frye-Jeffries-Balkman-N8-Mardy

11-15 [Watch This Space for Further Developments]: Malik Rose, Randolph Morris, Jerome James, Kelvin Cato, Steve Francis

Not sure if I wouldn't reverse Balkman for Q.  Lee and Balkman both need to develop something akin to a midrange jumper. 

Might Knicks buy out Francis AND Jerome? 

At this point, Makes more sense of Channing to be pencilled in as back-up center, where he would be more effective on offense with Eddy on the bench, and Jared (or Malik or Randolph) could be his caddy. 

Lot of ifs, obviously, not the least of which is Quentin's health, Lee's health, Jamal's health, Stephon's health, Frye's head, Jeffries' head, N8's head. 

But Mardy's emergence means Stephon can play some SG and less minutes overall or he will breakdown even further, though clearly, time is catching up.  And Jamal ain't going anywhere...I know his limitations, and I am in the minority, but I like his game. 

What are the chances of Eddy developing a dependable jumper, and Frye a consistent box game? 

What are the chances...of some DEFENSE, huh? 

Cue Lester and theme music...if I only had a brain.....


David Lee aint the answer to our defensive deficiencies in the frontcourt for trucks sake.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 14, 2007, 10:05:44 PM
There should be plenty of trade scenerios this summer. Miami, Dallas, and now the Nets may need some serious overhaul.

The injuries were a blessing in disguise, guys like Balkman and Collins have trade value or keeper value. We have alot of youth to add to any trade. The negative is that we get stuck with some guys who haven't shown it and have biggish contracts like James and Jeffries.

As much as like our players I have a hard time believing Thomas will remain completely still, there is going to be some opportunities knocking...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NYKnicks12 on May 15, 2007, 12:36:11 AM
This Suns team is showing a lot of grit in this series. What a victory.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 15, 2007, 09:15:24 AM
What a game!   The Suns did the impossible...they could have easily just let this one get away from them.they where down by at least 7 in the final minutes...


Nash is a great player he willed the Suns on...Amare did not stop playing...Barbosa and Raja and the Matrix!

Kurt Thomas may be the key to this series....with his pesky defense on timmy and his step out and shoot the 15 footer with accuracy. 

Suns win in San Antonio with all the dirty plays by Bruce Bowen with all the great plays by Ginobli and Barry..

The Suns may have taken San Antonios best shot last night ...and still won.

These are the games that turn series around.  Lets see if Pheonix goes on to win it all from this point forward.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 15, 2007, 09:44:42 AM
Great game last night wow don't sleep on Nash he earned those mvps, this guy wasn't losing last night he played with grit it was inspirational I can see Mardy playing same way.  With all the trade speculation going on not sold on JO and secondly Bird would sooner eat pigeon poop before he'd do a deal with Isaih, a more realistic deal is one with sacto for Artest like Jared, Malik and Frye for Ron and rahim and then Jamal, James and Lee to seattle for Chris wilcox and Earl watson.  The new knick line up

PG Mardy
SG Steph
SF Artest
PF Wilcox
C  Curry

second unit

PG Watson
SG Q
SF Balkman
PF Rahim
C  Morris


Not to mention whatever young gun we get from the draft.
thats a combination of youth and veteran leadership to guide this ship to the Eastern conference finals


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2007, 09:51:56 AM
Jamal, James and Lee to seattle for Chris wilcox and Earl watson

Don't like this deal.  I'd trade Lee only for a rare talent.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 15, 2007, 10:25:45 AM
Jaq

Im with you on all those trades, Rookies ans 2nd year players do nothing but flaunt potential for the future...We took the time to develop the worth of these guys dont stop trading and making the team better because the press says Isiah is trader vic....

Lee, Jared, Frye all potentially talented.

Wilcox, Artest proven guys...and needed for the Knicks to keep pace with the East.

A Curry, Artest, Wilcox front line would be a big up front team.  Hard to match up against, hard to score on.  Jermaine ONiel wants to come to the Knicks but as somebody said...Larry Bird and a lot of teams wont do a deal to help Isiah.  So dont count on JO coming to NY.  If there is a firesale in Sacremento or if the Seattle franchise is up for sale and they look to get rid of some assets...lets take advantage...

But lets not pursue guys because of thier charracter or or because they look nice in a Knick uniform... We want players here...all we need are players!  Again, We need some stops!   We need Artest.  and if big Wilcox is available for some 1st season potentially good knick also-rans like Lee , Frye or Jeffries...by all means lets get better...lets get more veteran savvy...lets show something new to offset Bostons top10 pick, The 76ers top 10 pick...The nets are already good, Chicago is already good, Cleveland is already good...Detroit is already good,

The point Im making is the KNicks cant stand still and not do anything.  We must get better by adding some proven veteran players... we must, or suffer terrible losses and coaches getting fired.  There will be a lot of coaches vying for Isiahs job next season if the knicks start out the gate slow.

if the knicks dont get better , Isiah could be a gonner.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 15, 2007, 10:50:42 AM
Both teams made a lot of mistakes in the last few minutes.  Dim Bumpkin got called for a couple travels and charges late.  I kept wondering where the Nash-Amare pickandroll was, and then they unleashed a few in the last minute.  Was also wondering why Marion doesn't shoot the ball or get involved in the offense.  He's mostly being guarded by Finley and Barry.  Should be able to blow past those guys, or shoot over them, backdoor or oop them now and again.  Maybe it's all the work trying to chase Parker around.

For most of the game, Parker was having a much easier time than Nash of running the offense.  Suns outrebounded the Spurs, with noone but Duncan pulling down boards for SA.  Was surprised the Suns took so few 3's.  Barbosa seemed to rush a little, and he missed free throws.  Nerves?  Diaw's jumper looked real shaky, but he looked good moving to the basket.  Kurt's J looked smooth.  Amare has to ease up some and let a few baskets go.  His goal should be to play 40 minutes a game.SA doesn't look so hot when Duncan or Parker sits.  And what's with Ginobili?  Pretty solid funk except for a few minutes in Game 3 after his eye thang.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 15, 2007, 10:51:17 AM
Kam whats wrong with that trade its not really to much talent Lee had a breakout year granted, but he's not a franchise player (yet) with that seattle trade we kill 2 birds with 1 stone we get a defensive minded big who can score next to curry and we get  the point guard that everyones been claiming we need since we got Steph.  Frye has potential but doesn't fit well in Isaihs gameplan. If we give up Frye for Artest Id do that in minute even if Artest is a headcase he's a proven scorer and the NY crowd would have him going all out in the orange and blue jerseys not to mention that would make us instant contenders for the east.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 15, 2007, 11:10:32 AM
I don't see any chance in he** Isiah deals Lee.

But then again I didn't see why he'd deal Keith either.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 15, 2007, 11:22:11 AM
The last couple of years we've had so much shuttling of players in and out of this team, guys still getting to know each other. I can see Isiah tweaking this team, I'd be surprised if he makes wholesale changes. A stud defender/shot blocker, maybe a shooter. You got to give to get, but do we really know the ceiling on players like Lee and Balkman? Even Nate could be an amazing player some day - once he learns how to be a pesky defender and grows up a bit.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 15, 2007, 11:37:25 AM
You guys want to risk what could possibly happen in the future for guys we know can play right now?

Lee....has potential yes. Frye potential yes , nate potential yes, but all backup players.

Ron Artest before the league deminished his worth was an AllStar or at least a real star player...Wilcox has performed well this past few years...the knicks really need a real PG that can get the ball safely into Curry and hit open jumpshots and control the offense...I believe Collins can do some of these things but is still real green and at times has problems with being punked by the opposition.  Watson is a vet.

balkman is great 2nd year player to keep.  Q is garbage....Jerome is garbage.....jared is not what we expected....Francis is out one way or the other... Crawford can play but is to inconsistant.... Question: Will Isiah pull the trigger?  He better cuz these knicks the way they are now...will not go far.  Maybe make the playoffs baring injury.  One thing we know for sure is Q will be hurt by season end...Crawford and Frye are skinny and injury prone types...Nate is too little...Collins is too green,,,Balkman is not a starter...Curry is a puppy...  Marbury is solid....

Im with you jaq lets make some trades.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 15, 2007, 12:11:31 PM
Did Nash get fouled too hard and will Amare and those that left the bench get suspened?

I say let them play..that fiasco with the knicks and PJ Brown/Charlie Ward was ugly...we dont want that again..let the players win or lose the game on the floor.

Besides Spurs are dirty too....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 15, 2007, 02:21:23 PM
Horry should miss a game.  Sad - he's never been one to do such a thing

I'd hope - to be consistent with losing Ewing back in the day - Amare would sit.

Sets up Kurt.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 15, 2007, 05:51:28 PM
kid - I keep thinking of Ewing missing that game. My prediction is that the League lets 'em play, which will only embitter me further. That Ewing suspension was devastating.

jaqd - Chris Wilcox is not a strong defensive player. So in your Jamal/Snacks/Lee for Wilcox/Watson trade, we get an excellent on the ball defender who shoots 38% (we already have Mardy to do most of that) and we get a wildly inconsistent PF who can block shots but is a reliability defensively and cannot hit the outside J any better than Lee. And we lose our top clutch player. I think it makes us weaker in the frontcourt and the backcourt.

Don't trade Lee unless a) you're getting a true stud (Jermaine O'Neal counts, Ron ARtest, all things considered, does not) or b) we're on the verge of a breakthrough into contention status (which we most certainly are not). Nate and Frye and Morris don't get that kind of treatment. Balkman does, although the second year is usually very telling. Not sure yet about Mardy.


Title: Shocked & Sickened
Post by: chipstern on May 15, 2007, 07:07:59 PM
It's only fantasy, and chin music in good fun, but I am frankly shocked, really, how many of you are ready, willing and eager to toss Lee over the side. 

And I see NO PARALLELS with VanHorn, other than the familiar Kiid-Pigment-Obsession.  Steve Novak anyone?  And I liked VanHorn when he was here.  Thought Lenny did a good job and he was coming around when Isiah off-loaded him. 

Lee is a man.  I see no reason why his defense and jumper cannot improve as dramatically as his foul shooting did in the off season. 

Some of your memories are shorter than your______

And some of these trades.  That proposal for Artest was a beauty.  YIKES!  Artest is a fire sale.  Rumor mill has Denver in pursuit, with Kenyon Martin part of any discussion.

I mean, a wheelbarrell full of our youth for Artest and [AND!!!] Abdur-Rahim.  Yeah, Lee ain't tough enough or a good enough defender, let's get Shareef in there.  And he is how old?  And led the Kings to what exactly?  And is going to be 31.  Check out his stat line for last season, mokes. 
10 & 5 in 26 minutes.  FT shooting down.  Nice offensive player, but down where Eddy works. 

10 & 5, which is basically what Frye did, and some of you have already have him shipped out for Earl Fucking Watson!

Lee had 10.7 & 10.4 in 30 minutes.  And just turned 24.  Higher FG%, .815 FT shooter.  Nearly 2.0 assist a game. 

Oh, and while I love Jermaine, he willbe 29 in October, has 11 years in the league, and the last three years he has only played in 44, 51 and 69 games respectively.  if his name were camby, Knick fans would have him on a barge to a Staten Island Landfill.  Still, I can understand why we covet him.  At 6'11", he averaged 19.4 & 7.4 with 2.4 assists and 2.6 blocks.  I mean, I GET IT, I GET IT!





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 15, 2007, 08:17:45 PM
Jaq, biz put it well when he said don't trade Lee unless you're getting a proven stud.  Wilcox is a risk. J'Oneal if healthy (none of his injuries are particularly bad or career threatening) is not.

Artest... i'm not against acquiring Ronnie.  I'm not against buying a ticket from a scalper to get into a game.  difference is, with the scalper if he sells me a fake, i'm only out a few bucks.  its only money.  But you're talking about sending some nice trade bait to Sac for Ron who might turn out to be the first guy in a while to get permanently thrown out of the NBA.

I'm really not liking the sideshow act Ron brings with him.  He's like crazy-eyed Kurt x10.  If he grows up and assumes the mantle of a tru professional, then i'll welcome him back home with open arms.  But if he screws up and brings more shame to this franchise i'll have no mercy on the men who brought him here.

Besides, do you think Dolan would go for it? What with the Sprewell memories...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on May 15, 2007, 11:42:56 PM
Papabear Says

If Zeke don't make some trades and get better he is done in New York. The Castopo or police state Sterns and Stu Jackson Suspended Amir Stotamire for one game. The NBA just gave San Antonio the series. They run the NBA like a police state. If I was Amire I would take the NBA to court about this one.Sometimes rules have to change, and this is one time an exception should take place. Suspend them for a half a game or something but don't give the series away. San Antonio was the agressor Stottomire and the Suns must suffer. That sucks.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 15, 2007, 11:52:45 PM
Papabear

Reminds me a bit of the old NHL, some scrub ass picking a fight with the other team's star. The defender always loses.............

Makes you wonder when San Antonio has a complete police state lockdown on their bench, like the word went out or something. Makes for a big opportunity for y'all to root for the old Knick, Kurt Thomas. I miss the ole pull the shorts trick!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Dzimas on May 16, 2007, 12:37:40 AM
Pathetic ruling, but one can one expect from Stern and Jackson.  Horry throws an elbow like that and you have to expect players to rise from the bench.  To suspend Amare is pure nonsense, who was coming back into the game anyway.  You simply can't come down on teams this way when so much is on the line, especially in a pivotal game five.  I would like to think that emotion will carry Phoenix past the aging Spurs, which seem so frustrated they can't keep up with the Suns that someone as experienced as Horry has to resort to a cheap foul like that one.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 16, 2007, 08:47:55 AM
Dzimas - No way Arame was going back in the game. Knicks fans distinclty remember the Ewing suspension for a very similarily small infraction. Laegue is just being consistent.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 09:01:18 AM
the ruling is typical Stern bs...I say the Suns win anyway.

As for trading Lee, if it happens I'm calling enough, buying a J.Kidd jersey and waiting for the Nets to show up in Brooklyn. Guy improves by leaps and bounds, no reason whatsoever to assume we're anywhere near the ceiling of his talent. 

There's a lot more pleasure in watching young players  improve than seeing aging superstars slowly decline. That being the case, i'ts probably a given that Zeek moves him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 16, 2007, 09:19:54 AM
Nothings a given its summertime we're just flickin our bic see if we can make fire. Granted there has to be some trades this summer and believe it or not I think our stock is high right now I mean even isaihs stock went up he came in third place for coach of the year.  In order to get better we're gonna have to let go one of our energy rookies I personally Love Lee and Balkman but a white boy who can play the gms around the league are probably licking thier fingers hoping they found the next great white hype (no disrespect intended) So I think they'll covet Lee just my opinion


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 09:55:44 AM
Well if you can get Utah or Boston to pay 3x what Lee's worth, go right ahead, but otherwise...

Some people are making the assumption that Balkman and Lee are interchangeable energy players, they're not, they're complimentary. Balkman's a much better defender, Lee's a much better passer and the likeliest of the two to develop the mid-range jumper (in fact, he developed it under Larry and lost it under Zeek).

You keep those two together instead of using them for bait,  throw in Mardy, and you have the beginnings of a young team building an identity, something we ain't had in a million moons.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 10:22:38 AM
First, Devil's Advocate...As of right now, Balkman and Lee are not complementary.  You have those two on the floor together, you have two guys who don't have an offensive game, allowing defenses to leave them and crowd Curry.

Lee is a better passer, true.  But Balkman's D gives him an edge over that.  Taz proves to be as adept at cleaning the offensive glass (looking at his rpm numbers, its possible) then he has the edge over-all.

If both of these guys don't ever prove to be much more than high-energy hustling tweeners playing the same position we don't need both of them, not when the team has such obvious needs elsewhere, and not when Lee has such high trade value.

Stepping out of the role...This isn't to say I don't want to keep both of them at this point.  I agree that both of their games are evolving, and I expect Lee to show us more.  There were rumors going into camp last year that Lee had worked on his jumper and was using it to roast the competition in Summer League.  Hopefully he keeps working at it to the point where Isiah feels comfortable featuring it in the offense, taking Lee further away from the basket where he was creating havoc with those offensive boards.

And Balkman is an unpolished ball of athleticism at this point.  I love his all-arms defense and hustle, but what happens when he gets beyond that and really learns to play the game?  We'll know a lot about him after this year.  Will a sophomore slump set in (ala Channing Frye or Trevor Ariza) once he is asked to play within a set role, or will he flourish within the constraints?

I'd trade Lee right now for a young shot-blocking and rebounding stud to put next to Curry.  Problem is, I don't know who that is.  It isn't looking like AK47 is coming available and no, JO don't fit that bill.

So in the end, I agree, lets keep them together and see how things develop.  Maybe Frye boosts his value this year as well, and all of a sudden we can spare some of our valuable 2nd and 3rd year guys to fill some holes while still maintaining a young core.  Onward.

p.s.  I thought you were going to check you hater persona at the door when you came here, Les.  Guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.  I anxiously await the popcorn updates.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 10:51:09 AM
Nobody suffered more than Curry when Lee went down, period. period. period. Big-man to big-man. Lee got him the ball better than anyone outside of Craw.

On the other hand, how many times did Balk FEED Curry in the post? I can't remember a single occurence.

As for the crowd problem, it's not as if Eddy Curry knows how to exploit double-teams when our "shooters" are in there. In any case, David Lee WILL shoot the midrange next year, end of story. We already know he can do it.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 11:31:08 AM
Nobody suffered more than Curry when Lee went down, period. period. period. Big-man to big-man. Lee got him the ball better than anyone outside of Craw.

This isn't addressing the point, lester.  We saw last year that with Taz and Lee on the floor (or when one was in there with Jeffries) teams collapsed in to Curry more and earlier than otherwise.  You claim the two are complementary, I think its never a good idea to have two guys in you line-up that opposing teams don't have to guard, period.  period.  period.

As for the crowd problem, it's not as if Eddy Curry knows how to exploit double-teams when our "shooters" are in there.

I disagree.  Curry passed out of the post just fine, and he was getting better.  The ball would eventually get passed back to him, or he'd pass it to Frye or Jeffries who would pass it off like its infected, or it would get to Craw who would drive in a bit to take his patented off-balance mid-range jumper.  To really exploit the double teams we need more guys cutting to the basket without the ball.  We didn't see that.  That’s on Isiah, not Curry.  Or we need to see more passing around the arc to find the open man once Curry makes that initial pass out of the post.  We did see some of that.  Not enough.  It also wouldn't hurt to get a damn shooter in here.

In any case, David Lee WILL shoot the midrange next year, end of story. We already know he can do it.


We do?  OK, well, lets hope you are right.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2007, 11:48:58 AM
I don't get it Knick fans.  Ewing and the Knicks were screwed by a dumb technical ruling eons ago, so the Suns and Amare should too.  I want to see the best players play, not Stu Jackson altering line-ups for nothing.

The purpose of the rule is too avoid fights from escalating.  Players (and often coaches) naturally react.  Here assistant coaches prevented any players on the bench from doing anything or getting too close to the problem area.  No worries, no suspension. 

And what a dumb rule is it anyway.  Bench players have to be confined to an imaginary zone, while the players in the game can push and shove and do whatever.  Raja Bell pushes and flails and escalates things.  He merely gets a tech.  Bench players are suspended for getting up and heading towards the situation and doing nothing.  Dumb.  And of course the perverse incentive is for a role player thug to whack a starter and hope other good players get involved.  I guess you might as well schedule your fights for when the other team is resting their starters and make sure to get into it closer to their bench.

Disappointing.  TV viewers should (somehow) arrange a boycott of Game 5.  That would change league policy quickly enough.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 16, 2007, 11:51:11 AM
Robert Horry has been viewed as one of the best clutch players in NBA history. He has been a part of six championships with the Rockets, Lakers and Spurs. He has made a number of late-game changing shots despite not being a big-time scorer, but Monday’s might be the best assist to win a series he has ever made.

The flagrant assault Horry put on Steve Nash in the Game 4 lost against Phoenix could possibly propel the Spurs to the Western Conference championship.

In one play when the game was seemingly over, Horry could have eliminated Amare Stoudemire, Boris Diaw and limited Steve Nash if he woke up this morning bruised and sore from the cheap shot Horry laid on him. I am extremely disappointed in Horry, but the true colors of individuals will always come to light when faced with embarrassment. Horry basically acted like the guy who brings his ball to the park and didn’t get picked to play, so he takes his ball and goes home.

I understand why he was disappointed. The Suns beat the Spurs at their game and especially when San Antonio thought they had control with an 11-point lead in the fourth quarter. The problem I have with Horry is this is the precise reason why he is considered to be one of the best clutch players ever. He has broken hearts of opposing fans and sent opposing teams to the locker room with despondent thoughts after making late-game winning shots when they thought they had the game won. Now when the shoe is on the other foot, he resorts to taking out the smallest and most important player for the Suns. I wonder… If that was Kurt Thomas, would he have sent that message to him?

I must admit Horry was one of my favorite players, but only based on his unselfishness. Suns fans have never liked Horry, though, because he forced a trade to the Lakers after the Suns acquired him and Sam Cassell from Houston for Charles Barkley. I will have a hard time understanding his meltdown and why a player who had no impact or confrontation in the game causes such an uproar at the end of it.

Because of it, the Suns are in deep trouble if Stoudemire and Diaw are suspended. Stoudemire’s argument is that he was checking into the game. Well, we will see if Stu Jackson believes that argument and what he decides.

Is it fair? No way. Will it be an even tradeoff, Horry for Amare and Diaw? No way. The league has a zero tolerance policy for leaving the bench area, but they have made adjustments before and in this case they should.  If they don’t, then why shouldn’t Pat Burke or Kurt Thomas provoke Tim Duncan into a confrontation or fight in Game 5. This series is about to get real ugly and the league better set a precedent soon. We have seen some flagrant acts  get overlooked in a number of series so far without suspensions and to finally suspend  two players for doing nothing will ignite the bonfire that’s been building in every semifinal series so far.

If the Spurs are rewarded with these suspensions, Robert Horry will add another clutch moment to his career and the Suns will have to beat a very good San Antonio team in Game 5 without their top scorer. I think that, at best, is wishful thinking and the Suns would have to get a second win in San Antonio to get to the next round.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Dzimas on May 16, 2007, 12:10:38 PM
I've always liked Robert Horry so I will assume that flagrant foul was more out of frustration than anything else.  After all, the Spurs blew a 5-point lead down the stretch.  He was the last person I expected to throw a forearm shiver in a game.  Bowen yes, Horry no.  What galls me is the way Popovich so casually dismissed it.  Seems the Spurs are at the end of their rope, going up against a better team and resorting to whatever it takes to get them to the NBA finals one more time.  I agree the rule is ridiculous when it gives the advantage to the team that instigated the bench clearning. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 12:21:15 PM
Quote
In any case, David Lee WILL shoot the midrange next year, end of story. We already know he can do it.
Quote
We do?  OK, well, lets hope you are right.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=260102018
Lee's very first game as a starter.
FG 10/11
Here are the shots:
David Lee makes 8-foot hook shot
David Lee makes 20-foot jumper (Nate Robinson assists)
David Lee makes jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)

David Lee makes slam dunk (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes slam dunk (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes layup (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes 19-foot jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes driving layup (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes layup

Anecdotal, whatever, I love the fact that the same folks who howl "eddy curry is 23, he can improve" about someone who improves at the pace of an oil tanker stuck in ice are sure  Lee will remain some kind of offensive liability. He isn't right now. Check the per48s, best lineups, winning percentage as starter whatever you F'n like.

 Anybody who pulls down boards to spur the break (and makes the best outlet pass on the team), never lets the ball stick in his hands for more than a millisecond, finds the open man everydamn time, and can finish the miracle tip play ain't NO KIND OF LIABILITY.

If you wan't to trade Balk go ahead, but that's equally foolish as he's probably the next mf'n Gerald Wallace.

WATCH portland will probably lift 'em both and two number ones for Zach "the black hole" Randolph and Darius Miles.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2007, 12:23:06 PM
Totally agree, connect.

And for whoever was touting Stephen Jackson, did you notice how his meltdown at the end of the 3rd Q set the stage for the 4th Q collapse?  Actually GS was lucky, because Utah was up 4 but then somehow managed to miss 3 straight free throws courtesy of Jax (1 tech and 2 from the flagrant foul).  GS showed a total lack of poise in a close game, which is what you get when you have stupid fools like Jax, macho fools guys like Baron Davis, and Matt Barnes along for the foolishness.  I thought it was exactly a lesson in why you don't pick up an Artest.  You shouldn't rely on a questionable mentality in tough situations.

If you want to gamble on Artest, you need a stable group of players and personalities around him, like Detroit when they picked up Sheed.  Instead we have Nate and possibly reformed Marbs and Jerome, and erratic performers like Crawford and Q and Frye.  Not the right mix.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 12:43:33 PM
The next game as starter he takes one shot: 1/1
David Lee makes 17-foot jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)


The next game as starter he goes 4/5:
David Lee makes 20-foot jumper (Nate Robinson assists)
David Lee makes 19-foot jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes two point shot
David Lee makes 20-foot jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)


The next game as starter he goes 2/2:
David Lee makes 20-foot jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes 2-foot two point shot (Nate Robinson assists)


The next game he goes 3/4
David Lee makes 17-foot jumper (Stephon Marbury assists)
David Lee makes driving layup
David Lee makes driving dunk (Jamal Crawford assists)

Efficient part of the offense during THE BEST STREAK OF BALL played by the Kknicks since Zeek's arrival. It ain't no coincidence that we WIN when Lee's in.
True, that was back when we had a coach...but I'm still very confident he'll be banging the 18 footer next year for SOME team.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 16, 2007, 01:11:42 PM
Sup everyone! Still too busy these days to spend too much time here, or on other forums (Sorry, FWK) but I had some crazy thoughts about a fantasy mega 3-4 way deal involving the Knicks-Kings-TWolves-Indiana. For lack of better judgement, considering all of the work I have to do here is a deal that might be worth it for all teams. It involves Curry, who I am a fan of, but I just wanted to see what people would think of this deal:

On RealGM: http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=3804209
Works on ESPN.com Trade Machine as well (although their data is not set for next year yet): http://tinyurl.com/yv6aqz

New York Knicks

Incoming Players
   
Jermaine O'Neal
Ron Artest

Outgoing Players: Channing Frye, Jared Jeffries, Quentin Richardson, Eddy Curry

Sacramento Kings

Incoming Players

Channing Frye
Danny Granger
Quentin Richardson
Ricky Davis

Outgoing Players: Brad Miller, Francisco Garcia, Ron Artest

Indiana Pacers

Incoming Players

Jared Jeffries
Kevin Garnett
Francisco Garcia

Outgoing Players: Danny Granger, Jermaine O'Neal, Marquis Daniels, Orien Greene

Minnesota Timberwolves

Incoming Players

Brad Miller
Eddy Curry
Marquis Daniels
Orien Greene

Outgoing Players: Ricky Davis, Kevin Garnett

Explanation:

For New York:

They get two players who resepect and have been highly coveted by Isiah, instantly turning the team into an Eastern Conference force. The teams' defense improves significantly and brings more polished players in their prime to match with Marbury and the young high energy guys like Lee and Balkman as the energy guy off the bench. It also cleans out the logjam of borderline starter PF/SF's allowing Lee to start with O'Neal at center and Balkman to get more minutes spotting Artest. James now gets to get real minutes as a backup 5 along with Morris & Rose as 3rd stringers with a chance for Morris to develop on the court if James can't play too many minutes.

For Sacramento:

They get rid of their headache in Artest, and Miller coming off an injury plagued season and is making pretty big bucks for a team with no real star, or big scorer. Losing both saves the Kings BIG money down the road allowing for them to develop young guys for cheap instead. With Frye and Granger they get two players who are known on the West Coast, can score and have potential to be stars at positions that they really have no one young to fill the shoes. They lose Garcia, but Granger is a real SF that can rebound and shoot, and they already have Kevin Martin making Garcia somewhat redundant. Frye can the play center, which some have said might be his true position, and in Sacramento the pressure will be significantly less than in NYC. They get a short term headache in Davis, but he sure can score, and his salary comes off the cap the next year anyway. Add he, Granger and Frye to Bibby and they have a decent Western Conference up-tempo scoring type of lineup similar to the C-Webb Kings that combined with their other vets makes them at least competitive while they wait for young guys to grow and draft new players.

For Indiana:

Indiana moves from possible playoff team with chemsistry problems to Eastern Conference force, with KG in the East. Indiana also gets another possible Reggie Miller in Garcia, who can spot Dunleavy minutes, and lessening the blow of losing Granger, and bring back their home boy Jeffries as a defensive stopper at SF/PF who could resurrect his career again in his home state and won't get into any trouble. They also rid themselves of one more of the headaches, Daniels, only leaving Tinsley to remain from the lot.

For Minnesota:

The KG era finally comes to an end, but they get two big men who are ready to contribute now down low, including the emerging star in Curry, who instantly gives them a go-to guy in the post. Being away from the spotlight of NY or Chicago can allow Eddy to prosper without constant criticism from media hounds and nasty fans. They pair he and Miller down low, who's nice mid-range jumper should compliment Curry's inside presence, giving the T-Wolves two threats down low to go with their young gun, Foye. They then get a good role player in Daniels when they really have no 2 guard ready to play now. He can play while McCants develops. Daniels, who doesn't need to score to be effective, which with Curry, Foye, Miller and Craig Smith gives them a good potential starting 5. If they want to go for more shot blocking they still have Blount off the bench or as a starter, bringing in Miller or Curry off the bench of they like.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 01:12:41 PM
Anecdotal, whatever, I love the fact that the same folks who howl "eddy curry is 23, he can improve" about someone who improves at the pace of an oil tanker stuck in ice are sure  Lee will remain some kind of offensive liability.

Come on, Les.  Read my post.  I expect this kind of bombastic nonsense from ultimateKnicks. not here.

I think I made it clear that I think both players will improve.  I think you are getting defensive now because you can't defend the basic premise of your original post, that somehow David Lee and Balkman are complementary.  They aren't.  They may be, someday, not now.

As for your breakdown of Lee's offense...interesting.  I took a quick look at 82games.com for the two years.  Lee did indeed take a few more jumpers under Brown but not many more (30% vs. 23% of his offense). 06 he shot an impressive 44%, but in 07 he shot 29%.  So you want improvement, it aint here.  He took more shots in 07 (400 vs. 230), meaning its the more accurate measure of his shooting ability.  

As for David Lee being a liability on offense...sorry bub, its just a fact.  Defenses sag off of him because they will dare him to take that 30% jumper all day next to Curry's 60% hook-shot, or 95% dunk.  

DL gets the jumper back up to 44% with more shots and more defensive attention...I'll be cheering along with ya.  So relax.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 16, 2007, 01:13:32 PM
Lester - those stats are amazing! I'm sure no sane person would have ever given inconsistent minutes to Lee after a streak like that, right?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 16, 2007, 01:16:09 PM
ike - that's a lot to give up, plus we still wouldn't necessarily be contenders. I say no blockbusters unless they push us over the hump.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 16, 2007, 01:28:03 PM
Nice deal for Sacto.
Apparently you think Garcia is a player.
Looked to me like a lightweight who gets pushed around and needs more aggressiveness/confidence.
I was unimpressed with him in the few games I saw him play.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 01:54:11 PM
As for the Passing in the war of Balkman vs. Lee (as this is the way Lester seems to like it):

Balkman had exactly as many assists as Lee did his first year, in a minute less.  So why you so sooo Balkman ain't gonna impooove tooo, huh?  Dat really gets my goat!

As for quality of passing?  55% of Lee's passes last year are close to the basket or Dunks.  Balkman, 45%.  Both very good numbers, and not as far off of eachother as you claim.

Que the rabid dog, foaming at the mouth...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 16, 2007, 03:06:43 PM
For New York:

They get two players who resepect and have been highly coveted by Isiah, instantly turning the team into an Eastern Conference force. That alone makes it worth it.


The teams' defense improves significantly and brings more polished players in their prime to match with Marbury and the young high energy guys like Lee and Balkman as the energy guy off the bench. It also cleans out the logjam of borderline starter PF/SF's allowing Lee to start with O'Neal at center and Balkman to get more minutes spotting Artest. James now gets to get real minutes as a backup 5 along with Morris & Rose as 3rd stringers with a chance for Morris to develop on the court if James can't play too many minutes.

If we could trade Eddy Curry for JO that would be great...I am not sold on Eddy he continues to be inconsistant most of the times...statwise he may show great improvement but look at the knicks record under his lead...not much improvement...Eddy also plays no defense if we can get JO to score and ron to play defense ...we could get some stops and score the ball better with Jermaine oneil.

That would be an improvement...I say trade baby trade...

You guys are crazy not to bite all over this trade!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 16, 2007, 03:53:08 PM
No point in turning us into the Indiana Pacers of old, just older.

I'm only considering trades that are aimed at building around Eddy Curry.

Bringing in Ron and JO but sending out EC would send the message the knicks have no plan.  At least stick to the premise that the knicks are building for the future around Curry.  If you trade him for older parts you're not building anything, and you're good enough to make the playoffs and never get a high pick.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 16, 2007, 04:40:01 PM
Kam, I think the trade would imply a 3 year plan. Marbury, Artest and O'Neal all have 3 or 4 years left on their contracts, so there's their window of opportunity. I mean, Marbury isn't getting any younger, nor are Artest and O'Neal (who will be 28 & 29, respectively early next season) so why not take those three in their prime and try to win, with a strong supporting cast of vets and youth?

It's not necessarily the Indiana Pacers of old because too many other players are different. Plus, that Indiana team was an EC force, and they didn't have a PG with Marbury's ability. That team relied on Artest to score more than he should, where as Marbury and Crawford can more than pull their weight as 2nd options after O'Neal. The Pacers had Harrington (who was inconsistent and didn't get a lot of minutes) and later relied on Steven Jackson (or Brad Miller). There are too many other players that are different on the Knicks to say they are the same, but that Pacer team did win 61 games in 2003-04, and was one of the top 2 teams in the East (along with the Pistons). Although the trade of Harrington for Jackson seemed okay for them at first it was Steven who was part of the melee in Detroit in 04-05. They simply never recovered from that incident (as well as, arguably, trading Harrington), as Artest demanded to be traded early the following season and chemistry problems persisted, along with tension from their more conservative fanbase about the makeup of the team.

Artest and O'Neal were key to their success and would instantly put the Knicks in a position to be a top East squad, with Marbury at PG, an up and coming player like Lee starting at PF and Crawford at the 2. Francis/Nate/Collins spot Marbury and Craw, Balkman for Artest/Lee, Morris/Malik for Lee, and James for O'Neal, with roster space for our draft pick and two free-agents (mid-level and low level exceptions) if so desired.

I like Curry and want to see him grow, but this is a deal I would probably do if it were available, from the Knicks perspective.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 04:44:56 PM
Lester - those stats are amazing! I'm sure no sane person would have ever given inconsistent minutes to Lee after a streak like that, right?

Well remember Biz, at that point in time, Zeek had assembled about 75 wonderful frontcourt guys for our roster, all of em needed a few minutes if only for "showcasing"



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 05:12:47 PM
So how did "showcasing" a 23 win team work out for us?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 05:16:49 PM
clearly not too well since now we got Grand Whinemaster Zeekadore running the show doing basically everything LB wanted but at half the speed. Of course, the worst part is he will be coaching for perpetuity......


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 05:29:00 PM
"Everything LB wanted..."

That revisionist chestnut is still floating around?  I was hoping that had gone out with the trashed NYTimes forum posts.

One has to wonder...Maurice Taylor wanted out when it became clear, with all the talk of a consistent line-up, that he wasn't going to get the PT.  Not sure about Rose, but with Q-Rich tearing things up pre-season very likely he wanted the buy-out as well.  Steve Francis' injury mysteriously flared up after he had returned to a hot team and a handful of 15mpg cameos that made it clear that Zeke was going with Crawford (still, you're right in a way, as Zeke gave Brown's idea of a Marbs+Franchise back court a while lot more time than Brown did)...so I'm wondering...might it be when a coach solidifies a line-up and it becomes clear that certain players don't fit...this concept of "showcasing" mysteriously gives way to a team trying to actually win games.

Might that be a coach doing his job rather than positioning himself for his next one?

You be the judge.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 16, 2007, 05:58:04 PM
Lester - you are actually defending LB taking Lee out of the lineup? Are you suggesting that Zeke forced him to do it in order to showcase someone? Who? And for what possible rationale?

Sorry - I'm inclined to stick with my current thesis - LB was a brilliant coach who cracked under the pressure of a lineup of misfits who did not afford him the respect he expected and deserved. He cracked horribly under these conditions, costing us 5-10 wins, several draft spots (who saw Tyrus last night!?!??), and a year of progress.

I also find it ridiculous that you give LB credit constantly for all that Lee did under LB (which wasn't that much, mind you), but give Zeke ZERO credit for all that Lee did under him, which was simply blossom in that 6th man role. That doesn't strike you as specious? It wouldn't seem to you that perhaps, in addition to Lee's hard work (which WILL be recognised come contract time, if he doesn't prove to be injury prone), Isiah managed to do a good job in identifying a comfort zone for Lee, an area in which LB failed miserably?

Or are we back to "LB didn't fail, he was showcasing"?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 16, 2007, 06:01:45 PM
Ike,

First of all, check out straightbangin.blogspot.com's 25 greatest hiphop albums list. Very entertaining.

Secondly, I don't believe that Pacers Redux team of yours contends for a championship at this point. Injuries have taken their toll on both RonRon and JO (and Stephon), plus Ron is no where nearly as effective as he was back then. This would not be a 61 win team with a very good chance of making the finalsm certainly not with those injury concerns.

Unless the Knicks are getting over the hump, why no keep Eddy (and the rest of the youth)?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 16, 2007, 06:42:30 PM
I don't think you can Put JO and Ron back together. There was a LOT of bad blood that developed in Indy from the brawl to the Peja trade. JO seemed to take it as Ron hurting and disrespercting "his" team. Don't think there is enough trust there for them to navigate a new situation together no matter who the coach is.  Otherwise I thought the 4 way was interesting. I could see each team's scenario working out.

If I belived Zeke would allow fair competition at possitions 2-4, assuming Marbs starts and gets bulk minutes at the point and Eddy starts and gets bulk minutes at center, I wouldn't feel bad starting the season with the guys we have on the roster and giving people time to seize roles through hard work and improvement and consolidate or go in a new direction with the ones who don't.

one of Lee, Frye and Morris will be a more than satisfactory starting PF. Smart money is on Lee being the most complete/exceptional though Frye has the tools If his D and confidence come around though he'll never be great on the move or a good passer.

If Q comes back pain free and a little lighter to give us 65-70 games of 13 and 7 and defensive focus we'll ne fine and Balkman is just a jumper away.

If Craw can fully commit to D and improve his decision making at the other end he sould start. He has the spark. On the other hand, Collins of the last 10 games was a more complete player than Craw has ever been. N8 can provide a spark.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 16, 2007, 07:12:50 PM
Takinng another slant -

Is there a team who could theoretically be intersted in trading down in this draft?

Who would be a target for us at say 11-15?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 07:42:52 PM
Lester - you are actually defending LB taking Lee out of the lineup?

Better to have put him in and taken him out than never (suspension,injury excepted) to have put him in at all.

I  find your critique of Larry's year pretty much spot on. Except I don't think Larry was working on a one-year plan and would have bounced back right fine once much of the deadwood was trimmed.
 
You're right though. I don't give Zeke credit for doo-doo*2 except for coming up with a creative excuse every week.

LB turned Marbs into a two-way player, not Popcorn Man. Nate regressed. Jamal regressed. Frye, ha. Trying his best to save his own ass, benefiting from Q's healthy back (til it crack) and Eddy's improved conditioning, he managed to eek out a few more wins than  a guy who wasn't even bothering to count W's.



*I give Zeek a teeny tiny almost subatomic particle of credit for teaching Eddy not to drop his shoulder into the defender's chest quite so much and for improving his passing 11.5%

2I give Zeek heeps of credit for helping to build two of the teams still alive in the playoffs




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 08:30:18 PM

Better to have put him in and taken him out than never to have put him in at all.


I have a lot of respect for Lee's game, but to average 11ppg and 10 rebs while never playing?  Man, I don't even know how to calculate those rebounds per minute numbers.  But whatever they are, they gots to be good.

Except I don't think Larry was working on a one-year plan and would have bounced back right fine once much of the deadwood was trimmed.


Right!  It was Maurice Taylor and Jalen Rose (who LB wanted) holding us back to 23 wins!  Thats my story and I'm stickin' to it!  No worries proving that, though, Brown himself made sure that he wouldn't be coming back for a second pass at that.

BTW...

LB turned Marbs into a two-way player for about ten games before he poisoned the relationship and the respect for the coach that Zeke helped build that season.  Notice how at the start of the year when Zeke wasn't getting the effort from his point he employed a few well-timed benchings rather than personal attacks in the media to get results.  See, thats what a Coach does.  And yes, Steph looked better on D this year.

Nate regressed?  He looked damn good before the fight and the last month of the year, shooting 46%, scoring 17ppg.

Speaking of last months, LB gets credit for turning Craw's game around based largely on his performance those last two months after shooting 37.5% and 39% in January and February respectively.  This year Jamal was getting more assists, more free-throws, more points and was shooting 42% while developing great chemistry with the team's go-to guy the two months when the team was starting to click before his injury but not only does Zeke get no credit for that, Jamal regressed!

Benefited from Q's healthy back; Good one.  Wonder why he got surgery at the end of this year.  He played more games, in fact,  under Brown.  Maybe Q benefited from consistent minutes and not having the reigns put on his 3-pt shooting.

And you have to wonder if a promise from Zeke that he would get more minutes and not be forgotten about by his teammates (while being benched for the 4th quarter in favor of Jackie Butler) had anything to do with Curry coming in to camp relatively in shape and ready to play at the start of the year.

Lester, man, I'd seriously question your judgment but I know you don't even believe your own BS.  So I know you're cool.

So, what new on the popcorn message boards?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 16, 2007, 08:39:17 PM
Though I got to say, watching Marcus Williams doesn't put me in the mood to defend Isiah right now.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 16, 2007, 09:26:17 PM
So, what new on the popcorn message boards?

Surprisingly little. D&T stopped shipping a number of seasonal chocolate-coated products on account of the hot weather, but that's not news, they do it every year about this time. Managed to get a write up in the Evansville Courier-Press.

We'd hear Daddy get out the pan, and Mother busying about the kitchen, getting out the bowls, the salt. Maybe, just maybe, we'd get a Coke, too. And if we were really lucky, a tablespoon or two of butter was drizzled over those hot, popped kernels of corn before it was divided four ways. We'd all settle in to watch "Father Knows Best"* without even knowing we already were living the ideal life.

On Saturdays, we walked to the Ross Theater. It didn't matter what was on the screen; Saturdays were show days. It cost a quarter to get in, and we had a quarter to spend for "treats." We felt like royalty.

Fifteen cents immediately went to popcorn. It wasn't often we blew the whole quarter on buttered popcorn. That dime left over went for candy two 5-cent choices (Milk Duds? Red licorice?), or one 10-cent "big ticket" item (a two-pack of Reese's cups, maybe?). But candy was shoved in the pocket for "later." It was the popcorn we all clamored for.

"Show popcorn" didn't taste quite like Daddy's popcorn, but it was awfully good. The air was filled with those wonderful aromas. Even the seats at The Ross smelled like popcorn. It's memories like these that keep chef Ed Doyle working away in the test kitchen at Dale and Thomas Popcorn.




* Hey Rembee wasn't that your tagline for a while? Or "father drives best"? Or "take the keys away from dad? I can't remember now, those NYT days were so long ago.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 16, 2007, 10:35:29 PM
Kid - I would trade Frye & our pick for the rights to draft Corey Brewer in a heartbeat. Would do it for Mike Conley Jr too, though I am a Mardy fan.

Presuming those deals wouldn't be on the table, I would trade Nate/Morris and our pick for Nick Young (preference), Acie Law, or Tiago Splitter. I think all 3 players will end up getting drafted too late.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on May 16, 2007, 11:53:08 PM
Papabear

Hey guys you are in dream world if you think that Larry Bird would do any trade with the Knicks and Zeke.If bird was getting the better part of the deal he wouldn't pull the trigger.
Bird hate Zeke.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2007, 12:10:48 AM
Papabear

Hey guys you are in dream world if you think that Larry Bird would do any trade with the Knicks and Zeke.If bird was getting the better part of the deal he wouldn't pull the trigger.
Bird hate Zeke.

Papabear

Kam

Hey, weren't you 12432d6 on the NYTimes forum? Nice to see you in exile as this new 'Papabear' identity.

Kam

ahh i get it now,  its like an <tag>html</tag>


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Dzimas on May 17, 2007, 02:12:28 AM
David Lee is a real workhouse and I think the Knicks are lucky to have him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 17, 2007, 09:04:49 AM
I think this knick squad is a playoff squad already with the cast we currently have. If no trades happen this offseason this is what I would hope is going on behind the scenes. Eddy and Frye are working out together Eddy's showing Frye how to post and loft that soft hookshot and Frye in turn is teaching Eddy the mechanics of a sweet jumper.  Mardy and N8 are working together N8s showing Mardy how to shoot and Mardy showing N8 how to play defense, Allan Houston is running a shooting camp and attending are Jeffries, Balkman, Collins, Curry.  If these little adjustments are made we be at least the 6th seed in the east.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 17, 2007, 09:05:31 AM
also at houstons camp would be Lee. My Bad


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 17, 2007, 09:19:05 AM
facilitatorn  
Question: Where do you get this information you are spewing?

Ron and Jermaine not getting along? I never heard that, ever.

Besides this is Isiahs team and if Jermaine where to come to his favorite coach he would put aside those petty differences and make it happen what do you mean not enough trust?  That is garbage...I want you to show us any where in the media that says Ron Artest and Jermaine ONiel had a problem with each other.

facilitatorn wrote:
I don't think you can Put JO and Ron back together. There was a LOT of bad blood that developed in Indy from the brawl to the Peja trade. JO seemed to take it as Ron hurting and disrespercting "his" team. Don't think there is enough trust there for them to navigate a new situation together no matter who the coach is.  Otherwise I thought the 4 way was interesting. I could see each team's scenario working out.


Lester, man, I'd seriously question your judgment but I know you don't even believe your own BS.  So I know you're cool....

Lester dont hate Isiah, congratulate
besides he had Dolans blessings ...Larry screwed up. he is gone we dont want to go back to LB stuff....LET IT GO.....LET IT GO.... ISIAHS THE COACH NOW...LET IT GO.


PrezIke

I like your trades....The Knicks better listen to you!  
A 3 year plan. Marbury, Artest and O'Neal all have 3 or 4 years left on their contracts,
Sounds like Duncan,Parker, Ginobli, so there's their window of opportunity.

I mean, Marbury isn't getting any younger, nor are Artest and O'Neal (who will be 28 & 29, respectively early next season) so why not take those three in their prime and try to win, with a strong supporting cast of vets and youth?That is a winning combo....anybody that says that core and team is not better than the non playoff making limp to the finish team we just embarassed our fearless leader Isiah with is not looking at what we are up against next season with teams improving and lots of tradable players going on the market....let seize the opportunity to steal a great player this upcoming year.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 17, 2007, 09:26:45 AM
Hey Rembee wasn't that your tagline for a while? Or "father drives best"? Or "take the keys away from dad? I can't remember now, those NYT days were so long ago

It was "Let Dad Drive" I think, directed toward those who were calling for Zeke's departure two months into his job following the now infamous KVH trade.

Man, those were the days.  My own patience would have run out a few seasons ago if not for Houston's retirement, Brown's incompetence, and the infusion of youth all earning Isiah a little extra time behind the wheel.  I was, after all, one of those who took it for granted this franchise would be mired in the muck for five years after we signed Houston to a max contract.

But another losing season next year (or even a losing record before the trade deadline) and we gots ta start looking at changes. Big changes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 17, 2007, 11:58:16 AM
Connect you asked...

facilitatorn 
Question: Where do you get this information you are spewing?

Ron and Jermaine not getting along? I never heard that, ever.

I just remember it probably from SC chatter at the time, so I did a little digging, and this seems the most on point, make of it what you will...

If Pacers don't deal him, Artest will stay inactive
Walsh says forward won't play again this year for Indiana

By Mike Wells

Indiana Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said if he can't make a suitable trade for Ron Artest, he will leave the former All-Star forward on the team's inactive list.

Walsh said Friday he's heard from about 15 teams interested in Artest but that the Pacers are not going to jump at any offer.

"If we don't get a deal to our liking, we'll leave him on the inactive list," Walsh said.

The inactive list allows teams to change rosters on a game-to-game basis, but Walsh said

Artest will remain there for the rest of the season -- if he stays with the Pacers. Artest will still be paid his $6.8 million this season.

Artest's agent, Mark Stevens, was quoted in Friday's USA Today saying he hoped Artest could remain with the Pacers.

"Hopefully it won't get done, and we can iron out the differences and work past this," Stevens told USA Today.

Walsh's comments Friday seem to make that scenario unlikely.

Artest returning to the active roster would cause friction inside the locker room. Several Pacers have said Artest has damaged his relationship with his teammates. Forward Jermaine O'Neal reiterated his comment from earlier this week Friday when he said the business relationship with Artest is over.

"The most disappointing part is he hasn't called anybody; no players or anything," O'Neal said.

"Players don't forget stuff like that. We've been very forgiving to him.

"I will never play with him again. We can't ever play together."


A spokesman for the National Basketball Players Association said the union plans to challenge Artest's $10,000 fine for public comments about his desire for a trade.

"We don't consider this to be a public trade demand," said Ron Klempner, associate council for the players association. "It wasn't calculated and the player didn't have an agenda."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...53/1004/SPORTS (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...53/1004/SPORTS)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 17, 2007, 12:22:44 PM
Your link to the story does not work...so it leads me to think its all made up...


Artest told the Star he wouldn't mind playing for New York or Cleveland. He's from Long Island City, N.Y., and former Pacers assistant Mike Brown is Cleveland's head coach.

"If I go to the West Coast, I would come back to New York after my contract is up," Artest told the Star. "I would go to Cleveland. I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind LeBron James. There's a lot of players I wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind."

James appreciated Artest's interest. Artest shut him down in Indiana's 98-76 win on Thanksgiving Day.

"You've got to be flattered because he knows we're an up and coming team," James said. "Any team in this league could use a guy like Ron Artest."

Jackson said the Pacers didn't foresee Artest's desire to leave.

"I think it shocked us all," Jackson said. "Ron's his own man. You really can't tell what's going through his mind ... I'll see him down the line, I'll still give him a hug and still tell him he's my boy."

http://mvn.com/nba-knicks/2007/05/07/oneal-demands-trade-to-the-knicks/

O’Neal Demands Trade To the Knicks?

Sources say O’Neal already has told the Pacers he wants to be traded to the Knicks and former Pacers coach and close friend Isiah Thomas. Would the Pacers take Stephon Marbury or maybe a package with Steve Francis, Jared Jeffries and Channing Frye and the Bulls’ first-round pick, which the Knicks own in the swap?”

If O’Neal has in fact demanded a trade, that is a major development in the chances the Knicks land O’neal this off-season. Two weeks ago, I discussed O’Neal and the possibility of the Pacers looking to deal him and the rumblings were already starting. Now with the news that he has told the Pacers management he wants to land in NY, talks may start to heat up as we approach June and then the NBA draft.

Smith mentions a possible deal for Marbury or Francis, Frye and or Jeffries and the first round pick. If Francis was in that deal, sign me up. I do not think Isiah will deal Marbury in a deal for O’Neal. With Eddy Curry, O’Neal, and Marbury the Knicks would definitely be a playoff team and in the weak Eastern Conference, who knows how far they could go.  I honestly do not think Indiana would bite on that deal. I think the Knicks would have to sweeten it up quite a bit.

I would expect Indiana to ask for Jamal Crawford as the guard and then maybe Frye with an expiring contract like Malik Rose and a draft pick. One player with some intrigue is Jared Jeffries. While he struggled with New York, he is only getting the mid-level exception, can play multiple positions and is a good defender. I think even with Crawford in the deal, the Knicks have to make that deal and I think it would be a very tempting offer for Indiana as well.

Remember fans, when stars are dealt, very rarely is equal value returned to that team. Just take a look back at the deals that involved some of the biggest names in the game such as Allen Iverson, Vince Carter, Baron Davis, and many other stars that have been traded in the last five years. For Indiana, they would get back two possible starters if Frye and Crawford were involved. Frye still has a lot of upside and Crawford is capable of averaging 20 points a night. With an expiring contract and a draft pick, Indiana would be on the road to rebuilding, which is what they need to do.

For the Knicks, they would receive the compliment to Curry they so desperately need. Another low post scorer, who is a great rebounder and defender. For those who do not think they can co-exist, I disagree 100%. I think the presence of O’Neal would make Curry even better. No longer would he be double teamed as he was down the stretch this year. Both players would benefit from playing alongside each other.

The one question that will come up, is what if Indiana says no deal or we are going to make a deal with someone else unless David Lee is involved. The Knicks would be faced with a tough decision but I think it is easier than some might think. David Lee is a good player, a fan favorite, does all the little things and gives his all 100% of the time.  O’Neal is a superstar, one of the top 10-15 players in the entire NBA and a franchise player.

While Lee is 24, O’Neal is only 28, so that is not as big a difference as some may assume. In addition O’Neal is a player that can carry a franchise and is a star and a consistent All-Star. He loves Isiah Thomas and wants to reunite with him in NY. While it would be hard to see Lee go, their first round pick last year, Renaldo Balkman can do a lot of the things that Lee does. He can bring energy off the bench, effect the game without touching the ball, make a big steal, start the fast break, finish and rebound. The emergence of Balkman, has made Lee expendable if the right deal came around.

Lee will never be a franchise player and if the Knicks can hold on to him and still get O’Neal, that is an amazing job by Isiah Thomas. The two big names being mentioned in any blockbuster deal for the Knicks this summer have been O’Neal and Kevin Garnett, who will be the topic of my next article this week. If the Knicks were to ever get either of those players without giving up Lee, Lee would permanently be on the bench as the backup power forward and never start for the Knicks.

Lee is a great role player and if the Knicks make no deal, should be their starting power forward next year. In that role I think he can average a double-double and possibly win the rebounding title. Even with those numbers, the Knicks still may find themselves a superstar who can score and defend short of making the playoffs or making any noise in the playoffs.
Lee’s trade value has never been so high and it may never be as high as right now. If the deal for the right star comes along, Isiah must not be hesitant to pull the deal and trade a good starter or great role player for a superstar.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 17, 2007, 12:54:16 PM
I think this knick squad is a playoff squad already with the cast we currently have. If no trades happen this offseason this is what I would hope is going on behind the scenes. Eddy and Frye are working out together Eddy's showing Frye how to post and loft that soft hookshot and Frye in turn is teaching Eddy the mechanics of a sweet jumper.  Mardy and N8 are working together N8s showing Mardy how to shoot and Mardy showing N8 how to play defense, Allan Houston is running a shooting camp and attending are Jeffries, Balkman, Collins, Curry.  If these little adjustments are made we be at least the 6th seed in the east.

You're out of yer bleedin mind


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 17, 2007, 01:37:17 PM
Lester Im officially challenging you to a game...You represent LB Ill represent Isiah...for all the marbles...If I win NO MORE LB chat...If you win continue to idolize Sir Larry all you want... as a matter of fact you can have Kam or your side Im massacre you both...

I kind of recall an actor Paul Newman is his name he also sell popcorn do you dislike paul or only zekes kernals?

kam you made comment about crossing over my gimmpy knee?
I will squash your shot to the backboard so tight as in blocked....well you get the meaning...

Lester are you really a knick fan?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2007, 02:06:52 PM
Your link to the story does not work...so it leads me to think its all made up...


Story IS true.  Saw the same words come out of his mouth on ESPN. 

BTW, I've been known to throw a pump fake or two.  Don't go crashing your noggin into the backboard and embarrass yourself.  I love playing against guys with 'hops'.  They're usually too eager to show off.


Title: Let's Trade Lee Feeding Frenzy
Post by: chipstern on May 17, 2007, 02:10:23 PM
Yes, dimwits. there is a precedent. 

Lonnie Shelton for Marvin Webster.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: yankguy on May 17, 2007, 03:02:12 PM
That wasn't a trade.  The Knicks did not willingly give up Shelton.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 17, 2007, 03:34:24 PM
Kam wrote:
I've been known to throw a pump fake or two.  Don't go crashing your noggin into the backboard and embarrass yourself.  I love playing against guys with 'hops'.  They're usually too eager to show off.


I do get up like David Thompson....


Chester the ma lester  i mean Lester dawggggg.....

me and isiah against you and larry....
lol


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2007, 03:39:35 PM
Kam wrote:
I've been known to throw a pump fake or two.  Don't go crashing your noggin into the backboard and embarrass yourself.  I love playing against guys with 'hops'.  They're usually too eager to show off.


I do get up like David Thompson....


Chester the ma lester  i mean Lester dawggggg.....

me and isiah against you and larry....
lol

Look out for Larry, I hear he can dribble.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 17, 2007, 03:57:05 PM
Fantastic SA / Suns game last night. Probably one of the best games I've seen in a long long time. Unfortunately, the Suns didn't win. KT giving it his all, everyone on the Suns trying to stop the dynamo who is Duncan, while trying to escape the 3pt shooters and score against the leagues best defensive team. I look forward to the Suns getting some fresh troops back from the bogus suspension. I like the Suns, dislike the Spurs, dislike the Nets, consider Cleveland to be fakes (but still rooting for them in this round). Wish the Warriors could of won, but man did they make Indy look bad in that trade.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2007, 04:11:18 PM
I like the Spurs.  Why does everyone like the SUNS and feel they got jobbed?  I'm sick of hearing about the SUNS.  I hope they lose.  I like the team of professionals in San Antonio.  They remind me of those mentally strong Pistons teams of the late 80s.  Borderline dirty.. okay.. this is a physical sport.  This is the playoffs. 

Everybody is killing the NBA because Amare couldn't play.  If it was some scrub missing the game, no one would've said a thing.  Dumb ass Nash flops his arms above his head, AFTER he's already fallen and all his momentum released.  Don't flop. and Stop snitchin!


Title: re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 17, 2007, 04:27:03 PM
Interesting debate on slate.com on whether it is wrong for Paul Shirley to root for white american NBA players, given that he is one and that they constitute 6% of the NBA.

I say there is no denying that fans and the media are biased towards white players, and the majority of America can't be wrong. Well, I guess they were when they voted in Bush.

I have a buddy who definitely cheers for black quarterbacks (he's black himself). Is that any different? Any better?

I think I know what kid thinks. Curious if anyone else finds this an issue


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2007, 04:40:36 PM
I don't worry about who Paul Shirley roots for.  Although i will say its dumb to as a rule root for a certain type.  What if the entire NFL goes to having black quarterbacks?  Who do you root for then?  In Basketball, as a fan with a preference, its not a big deal. In the real world it is.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 17, 2007, 04:46:21 PM
Quote
Chester the ma lester  i mean Lester dawggggg.....
me and isiah against you and larry....
lol

Gimme two weeks. Still breaking in a fresh pair of STARBURYS.
Initial impression: Exceptional value for 14.95. Exceptional.


Quote
Look out for Larry, I hear he can dribble.

We will only be doing this if there is a porto-san adjacent to the schoolyard.


Quote
I like the Spurs.  Why does everyone like the SUNS and feel they got jobbed?

Because of all the whiney floppers, Manu is the whiningest floppiest, floppingest of all, The King of Eurofloppers even though he is South American, and because Bowen is a dirty player, not a physical player, and someone should really bust his ass real good, and because NOBODY wants to see another Pistons-Spurs series, and because people are sick as f of Dictator David Stern and his halfwit henchman Stu Jackson and how they've ruined NBA and hopefully they'll go on a long sea voyage and never come back.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 17, 2007, 04:53:16 PM
from a Simmons article linked in the NBA forum:

Is that basketball? Hell, no! In fact, when I was a little kid -- and I swear to God, this happened -- a guard named Mike Newlin flopped to draw a charge from the great Dave Cowens, a fiery Hall of Famer who played with a remarkable level of passion and fury, to the degree that he burned himself out after 7-8 years. Completely and utterly outraged that Newlin committed such a phony act of sportsmanship, Cowens berated the ref who made the call, yelled at him some more, then started running back on defense when he noticed Newlin dribbling up the court. Now, our seats were at midcourt, so this happened right in front of us and nearly caused me to pee my pants -- as Cowens was running, he snapped and suddenly charged Newlin like a free safety, bodychecked him at full speed (much, MUCH harder than Horry's foul on Nash) and sent poor Newlin careening into the press table at about 35 mph. Then he turned to the same ref and screamed ...

"NOW THAT'S A F------- FOUL!"


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 17, 2007, 11:43:03 PM
Ty Thomas with the brain freeze.  Bulls get slapped back.  Pistons beat the fro.  Now make that pick fall 9-12.  Back to the drawing board Pax.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 18, 2007, 08:45:47 AM
Chicago thought they had the winning formula HA HA. Good series gave detroit all they handle for a minute I was surprised when they beat miami because jumpshooting teams usually live and  DIE with the jumpshot.  THen again Miami was a poor perimeter defensive team and they were slow getting to the perimeter thus giving chicagos band of shooters enuff time to spot up and get a clear look at the basket thus the high percentage, detroit was having none of that, big up Dumars for putting together a squad of savvy vets who play with passion and play the game to win. Billups gone next year so that superpower is about to implode soon more room for the knicks.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 18, 2007, 10:11:13 AM
jaqd - Billups ain't going nowhere.

Depending on what else the Lakers do, Webber could end up in LA.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 18, 2007, 10:50:34 AM
 Manu : I occasionally attempt to draw charges in basketball games. As embarrassing confessions go,  my girlfriend once refused to watch our team play basketball games because, "Every time someone bumps into you, you fall over and roll around like you've been tasered." This is, of course, a complete exaggeration. As a  white man, whose lateral movement has been described as "glacial," the charge is a weapon of convenience, a poison-tipped dart in the quiver of the non-athlete.

And, if you're a smart basketball player, you know that referees the world over love to call the charge. But you have to sell it. Squeal, grunt, and collapse to the floor as if you've just been shot by a round of canister from a War cannon. Do so, and referees will reward you with the charge call. Especially referees in NBA games, In fact, if you go to a college game, trust me, it's rare that referees even call blocks anymore. The charge is a sexy call. There's something about putting the hand behind the head, blowing the whistle, and throwing out the arm that appeals to lower-tier referee's inner diva. This March, while watching a US high school play here in San Antonio, my friend Tardio and I counted 13 consecutive charge calls with nary a block. Thirteen!

I will continue to flop....



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 11:19:02 AM
I am sorry if i'm about to offend anyone but i've had it with all the whining that passes for commentary here.  There is such a thing in Sports called gamesmanship.  As wikipedia tells us, the term originates from Stephen Potter's 1947 book, "Gamesmanship: The Art of Winning Games Without Actually Cheating"

It happens in all sports.  In our game, some even refer to it as savvy veteran play, as related to BasketballIQ.  What Knick fan doesn't enjoy it when Malik Rose pulls the chair out from under a guy who is posting him up?  And what matter that Malik may have had a handful of jersey helping pull the man down?  We appreciate the guile. 

In the NFL, you have Wide Receivers angling for Pass Interference calls.  In MLB, you've got all sorts of marginal cheating going on like stealing signs or pretending to throw to one base, pretending the ball got by you to fool a base-runner, pretending to check your swing to fool an umpire.

I like it when i see brains and guile trump athleticism. Maybe I have this opinion because I'm 5'10, 160.  Obviously i'm no physical specimen or court adonis and so maybe I appreciate the hard-scrabble hustlers that play with some grit and some dirt. 

It aint the Olympics, its team sport.  The most athletic, most physically gifted might have some claim to victory in pure Olympic events, but in a team game with trainers, coaches, and players all trying to push the team to the next level... alls fair. ALL IS FAIR.

Whine and complain all you want, but do it when YOUR team doesn't practice gamesmanship.  If they're smart, they would try and win by any means legally available to them within the confines of the game.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 18, 2007, 11:51:24 AM
kam..

The NBA tries to make the game apealling to even little guys like you...How else would you stop my flying tomahawk jam when it has you in its sights?

You better flop and flop real hard...  cuz if you try coming up to the clouds you may catch a nose bleed.... and become posterized like Kerelinko...

I myself like the game in its earlier form...when a PF could be a PF...

When he could wrestle with and rough up little guys like you...

If Cowens where playing today he would be totally disgusted with how wimpy the league has gotten... play the game..

If you cant go up there and block that shot get a real 7ft center who can block shots.

I liked to leave a big size 13 ($14.95 Starbury) footprint right on Ginobli's chest and stomp him into roadkill if he tries to flop on me...

Cowens would be proud!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 12:19:58 PM
How else would you stop my flying tomahawk jam when it has you in its sights?

Hard fouls happen. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2007, 01:29:16 PM
I like the Spurs.  Why does everyone like the SUNS and feel they got jobbed?  I'm sick of hearing about the SUNS.  I hope they lose.  I like the team of professionals in San Antonio.  They remind me of those mentally strong Pistons teams of the late 80s.  Borderline dirty.. okay.. this is a physical sport.  This is the playoffs. 

Everybody is killing the NBA because Amare couldn't play.  If it was some scrub missing the game, no one would've said a thing.  Dumb ass Nash flops his arms above his head, AFTER he's already fallen and all his momentum released.  Don't flop. and Stop snitchin!

Bruce Bowen is the most underrated player in the NBA andf should be on Team USA.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2007, 01:30:57 PM
from a Simmons article linked in the NBA forum:

Is that basketball? Hell, no! In fact, when I was a little kid -- and I swear to God, this happened -- a guard named Mike Newlin flopped to draw a charge from the great Dave Cowens, a fiery Hall of Famer who played with a remarkable level of passion and fury, to the degree that he burned himself out after 7-8 years. Completely and utterly outraged that Newlin committed such a phony act of sportsmanship, Cowens berated the ref who made the call, yelled at him some more, then started running back on defense when he noticed Newlin dribbling up the court. Now, our seats were at midcourt, so this happened right in front of us and nearly caused me to pee my pants -- as Cowens was running, he snapped and suddenly charged Newlin like a free safety, bodychecked him at full speed (much, MUCH harder than Horry's foul on Nash) and sent poor Newlin careening into the press table at about 35 mph. Then he turned to the same ref and screamed ...

"NOW THAT'S A F------- FOUL!"


Great story.  Nothing beats being right there.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2007, 01:39:20 PM
Van Gundy fired


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 18, 2007, 01:48:39 PM
Van Gundy fired

Isiah extended.

It's a Travis-sham-mockery.

Weakness corrupts, absolute weakness corrupts absolutely.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 18, 2007, 01:55:46 PM
And I thought the expression... “The whiter the bread, the sooner you’re dead” ...was a reference to food.


Title: what if...
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 02:26:26 PM
Larry Brown and the Grizzlies land Gred Oden in the draft. Then trade Oden to the Rockets for Tracy McGrady and a future #1 top-three protected pick.  Brown the promptly quits the Grizz and is hired as Coach of the Rockets where he has Oden and Ming and a cast of no-names who he can mold into his ideal defensive unit.

The Grizz get T-Mac to pair with Pau Gasol.  They trade both for Kevin Garnett.  He faces ending his career in exile in memphis or opting out. He opts out of his deal and signs a three year MLE with Kobe and the Lakers.

Kobe finally wins his 4th ring and KG retires into the Sunset.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 18, 2007, 03:27:44 PM
Quote
Bruce Bowen is the most underrated player in the NBA andf should be on Team USA.

Quite possibly true. A tremendous defender who developed a shot. He is, however, also an extremely dirty player. Kicking for the achilles, among other things, is not on.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 18, 2007, 03:39:11 PM
1st team all-defense a number of years.
Limited offense, but can knock down the corner threes.
I think he's rated correctly as a top defender and solid kick-out option.

One other cheap thing Bowen does:
if his man gets past him, often Duncan is there to slow the ballhandler down.  Bowen will often bump or nudge the guy from behind with his body.  The refs seem not to call it, but even a slight push from behind is enough to mess up a shot.

Towards the end of last game, Nash blew past Bowen on the left baseline.  Bowen grabbed Nash's trailing arm, messing up Nash's balance and causing him to miss the layup.  Nash was pissed the ref didn't see it.  Crafty little foul by Bowen.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 03:42:33 PM
Bowen was razor-close to being a knick about 7 years ago.  Miami claimed him off waivers because they were a game behind us in the standings.  Thank Pat Riley.


Title: Happy Memories of the season that was
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 03:47:36 PM
(http://www.nba.com/media/knicks/celebrate_300.jpg)

http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/top20_070510.html (http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/top20_070510.html)

Top 20 Knicks Peformances Of The 2006-07 Season
by Tom Kertes

EDDY CURRY at Milwaukee 4/7/07, Knicks win 118-113 in OT
The 6-11, 285-pound Curry  scores 43 points on an unbelievable 17-20 shooting, pulls down 13 rebounds, and adds 2 steals.  Then ties the game in regulation with 0.9 seconds left on the clock with his ONLY three-point field goal (on his lone attempt) of the season. “Mardy Collins did a great job looking for me, ”an overwhelmed (but vainly trying to appear nonchalant) Curry says of his miracle three. “Other than that, it’s just shooting.”

JAMAL CRAWFORD vs. Miami 1/26/07, Knicks win 116-96
3 points in the first and 49 points over the next two and a half quarters. He is taken out of the blowout with 6:57 to go.  “I just got into a nice rhythm,” understates the smiling JC. “We were rolling pretty nicely on all cylinders,’’ adds forward David Lee. “But it makes it a lot easier when one guy simply can’t miss.’’



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 04:44:03 PM
Keepers -youth rules

Curry
Lee
Balkman
N8
Collins


My keeper starting lineup of the future.

Everyone else is bait. Some less trade-able than others.  Of those i don't mind having these two-way vets:

Star
Rose
Q



Francis, Morris, Frye and the JJs are all emminently disposable.

Now i have no idea where Crawford fits. Is he a part of our future, or a part of a trde package? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 18, 2007, 05:37:00 PM
Kam - Malik is strictly a one way vet

BoD - nice analysis of Yi on the other forum (can't be bothered to post in two different fora). I'm down on Yi in part because of what you've been saying by him. You're like my secret advance scout. As such, hopefully the Celts draft him 3rd overall and he blows up in his second contract somewhere outside of our division.

Besides, I'm way too enamoured by the games of Al Horford and Corey Brewer to consider these other cats (either of the Wright dudes, Yi, Noah, Hibbert, Jeff Green, Hawes) until they are gone. Conley Jr's got a nice game too.

Cross your fingers gents. 22 May is right around the corner.


Title: Simmons
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 18, 2007, 05:41:11 PM
I have to say Bill Simmons has been killin' it with his basketball blog. He doesn't need to be right to be eminently entertaining. And his love draft blogs and other lists have revolutionised sports writing. He's hopelessly tendentious, his pop culture references lose me sometimes - I've never seen half the shows he discusses - and I hate the Celtics and could care less about baseball and football, but I have to ask: is there a more important sports writer out there?

And when will he jump the shark? He's already had a cartoon that flopped, he's already pretended to take up soccer and then uncermoniously ditched the idea, he's already been threatened by Zeke (what the hell were you thinking Isiah?), and he's now got a podcast that doesn't work very well because it rehashes what he's already written about. Yet he's still the king.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 18, 2007, 05:58:51 PM
Kam - Malik is strictly a one way vet

BoD - nice analysis of Yi on the other forum (can't be bothered to post in two different fora). I'm down on Yi in part because of what you've been saying by him. You're like my secret advance scout. As such, hopefully the Celts draft him 3rd overall and he blows up in his second contract somewhere outside of our division.

Besides, I'm way too enamoured by the games of Al Horford and Corey Brewer to consider these other cats (either of the Wright dudes, Yi, Noah, Hibbert, Jeff Green, Hawes) until they are gone. Conley Jr's got a nice game too.

Cross your fingers gents. 22 May is right around the corner.

Malik has that E.S.P. with Eddy Curry. Not as nice as Crawfords lob, but still. Guys who can pass, can play.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 18, 2007, 06:12:57 PM
I don't mean to gloat about JVG being fired, but wasn't it about time somebody realized he's just an incompetent manipulator?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2007, 10:44:24 PM
Keepers -youth rules

Curry
Lee
Balkman
N8
Collins


My keeper starting lineup of the future.

Everyone else is bait. Some less trade-able than others.  Of those i don't mind having these two-way vets:

Star
Rose
Q



Francis, Morris, Frye and the JJs are all emminently disposable.

Now i have no idea where Crawford fits. Is he a part of our future, or a part of a trde package? 

I think Isiah is in great disagreement with you about Morris

My guess is he plays him often.  Upside (looking like a genius) is too great not to.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 18, 2007, 10:46:36 PM
I don't mean to gloat about JVG being fired, but wasn't it about time somebody realized he's just an incompetent manipulator?

Don't be a phallus.  This was an extend or fire situation.  An extension would have been very very expensive.

Vescey loooks like a total moron, saying Jeff was leaving them high and dry.  PUTZ!

Adelman rumored.  I wish him well.  Look forward to Jeff back in the booth, though Wil Perdue'll be pissed again.  :)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 19, 2007, 12:43:21 AM
Wow. What a series tainted or not. Duncan unreal. Popovich is some f'n coach. Shame is we had one of the the same magnitude and now we're stuck with the slimey mediocrity that is Isiah Thomas because GM Zeke chose to back a player who probably hasn't had as many big games in his life as Duncan or Nash have in a single playoff series (and who Duncan, should he have ever had the misfortune to have had him on his team, would head-towel-whip into submission in about 11 seconds after his first self-pitying, coach-killing burp) instead.

Ah, the good fortune some well-run franchises have. Maybe it all would have turned out different if JVG's head had rolled, as it should have, rather than Ernie's.

Actually, for all the accolades Phoenix management gets, their big mistake was trying to save a few bucks and selling those draft picks instead of picking up the Nash backup they desperately need. The little marvel wears out about this time each year after all those 46 minute nights.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 19, 2007, 05:37:38 AM
Biz, on the flipside:

Yi does have some bona fide b-ball skills (a mid-range shot and a Garnett-like turnaround J from within 12'), while he certainly can run&jump and looks very good in the open court.  Also a legit 7 footer.

Plus playing in the CBA (China) for 3 years is equivalent to being a junior in college.
While I'm down on his demeanor, he must be competitive enough to have successfully met expectations, improving every year from a blue-chip young prospect, to a solid player, to a legit star this season (a question is whether he did this from 17 to 19, or was it from 19 - 21).  He also has some international experience against higher-level competition.
He rebounds well here, but has trouble maintaining position.
While he's mostly about finesse, I like it that when he gets bumped or banged by the Americans here, he has enough toughness to get riled up and compete harder for the next few plays, even if sometimes it results in fouls.

So as a prospect, there is a lot to like.  And I imagine he looks good in workouts (some team should try to get Yi to workout against Noah).  For me, it's mostly his somewhat sulky attitude, his pronounced tendency to play in spurts and disappear, and his current tweener status that turn me off. 
I'll actually be pulling for the guy, but I'm wary.

[Then again, I remember doubting TMac's languid manner and seeming lack of fire]



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 19, 2007, 03:24:21 PM

Actually, for all the accolades Phoenix management gets, their big mistake was trying to save a few bucks and selling those draft picks instead of picking up the Nash backup they desperately need. The little marvel wears out about this time each year after all those 46 minute nights.


LOL, i find this funny because they have the 6th man of the year in Barbosa.  And, because i suggested the same thing as you lester.  Barbosa aint the answer there. He is a product of their system.  PHX could use a Mardy Collins.  Or N8 Rob.  N8, like nash, can at least shoot the three.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 19, 2007, 10:59:15 PM
They sure could of used N8 last night. Spurs ability to deny penetration AND the perimeter was, wow.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 19, 2007, 11:33:52 PM
IT is one of the few that appreciate n8. Sub NBA like the JJs. Obviously a liability on defense because of his size and always out of control. Maybe someone off the bench for a quick pick-up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 20, 2007, 02:30:12 AM
From what I've seen, N8 has really just barely touched his potential offensively as far as breaking down defenses. Can you imagine if we actually used him in a coordinated way, where the big guy down low was even somewhat picked off?

Defensively, well thats another story. He is going to have to learn and also have the desire. At some point someone needs to get super real with him, like the next contract may not happen the way it could happen cuz' court time is dependent on you not only scoring, but seriously outscoring your opponent. He's a young, strong, majorly athletic player, I'd hate to give up on him so soon - because he has some special skills.

If we had a Duncan or even a Camby down low, half of our players we wouldn't even be having a chastise conversation about because their deficiencies would be somewhat covered up. As it stands now, Frye and Curry are like turnstiles down there, so its a big issue - thus we look to someone like Mardy Collins to shore up the exterior defense. For me, the yute that needs to be replaced in one form or another is Frye...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on May 20, 2007, 11:41:31 PM
Papabear Says

Fry will have a break out season next season. Fry is a smart Kid and we put him on a pedistil too soon. Fry will be OK. We need a pure shooter who can defend. Q may be finished. N8 hopefully will grow up New York don't like clowns.
I think that New York should retire John Starks number. WHY???  To show all future Knick players and fans what a true hard working Knick looks like. He came from the developement league and became a Knicks star. And Starks heart is about always being a New York Knick. Thats what Starks is about.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 20, 2007, 11:58:18 PM
Papabear Says

Fry will have a break out season next season. Fry is a smart Kid and we put him on a pedistil too soon. Fry will be OK. We need a pure shooter who can defend. Q may be finished. N8 hopefully will grow up New York don't like clowns.
I think that New York should retire John Starks number. WHY???  To show all future Knick players and fans what a true hard working Knick looks like. He came from the developement league and became a Knicks star. And Starks heart is about always being a New York Knick. Thats what Starks is about.

Papabear

Marbury wears "3" now.  Deal with it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 21, 2007, 10:27:31 AM
wow I am still amazed at the run cleveland has made it has to be the coach, this team is by no means stacked --its really a mediocre team, but as I've watched the games I come to realize thier strategy seems to be stay close until the 4th quarter and then they either unleash Lebron or Hughes and it has been working.  This made me look at the knicks and I thought our problem is we don't have a closer, we really don't have anyone who can take over the game in the 4th quarter and bring home the W, someone who can create thier own high percentage shot or draw double teams and get the ball into the hands of the next best option.  Last thought LEBRON JAMES is a man-- a Phenom --and if he keeps working on his game he may turn out to be the next best thing since EH HUH  Jordan.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 21, 2007, 01:38:08 PM
You're just not properly judging talent.

Cleveland has PLENTY of it.  And the proper role guys to boot.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 21, 2007, 02:46:07 PM
Quote
wow I am still amazed at the run cleveland has made it has to be the coach, this team is by no means stacked --its really a mediocre team, but as I've watched the games I come to realize thier strategy seems to be stay close until the 4th quarter and then they either unleash Lebron or Hughes and it has been working. 
You're just not properly judging talent.
Cleveland has PLENTY of it.  And the proper role guys to boot.
I agree, you are misjudging the talent of the teams that Cleveland has played.
Washington missing two all-satrs still put up a decent fight, and a New Jersey team with Mikki Mouse and nobody at the 5 still did okay against Cleveland.  Maybe Cavs have played down to their opponents level, but they haven't looked god this post-season.

The Cavs are an above average team in a weak Conference.  Their front-line is big but limited.  Varejao a nice bench guy.  Hughes is hugely overpaid, very athletic but erratic, and of course injury prone.  LBJ should run for president.  But they have a serious void at PG which hurts them alot.  I've always liked Donyell Marshall, but he's gotten creaky, defenceless and erratic.  A reasonably good team, probably around the level of second-tier teams out West, such as Utah and the Rockets.

Detroit is better and probably the Bulls as well. 
I'm hoping Cavs step it up and make a good series for Detroit.
Spurs in 5.  Detroit in 6.
Though I'm pulling for Utah.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 21, 2007, 03:00:41 PM
Im thinking for ratings sake the refs would make this series work but Cleveland has nothing for Detroit, Detroit will treat them like a cat with a mouse play with it until it gets tired then snap its neck and leave them for dead.  On the other side I think Utah is stacked and it seems to me when Deron plays more of the traditional pass first point guard instead of shoot first point guard his team wins. They need to get Okur off early and let Boozer feed off him that is when they are most dangerous. Im thinking this series is going to seven and could possibly go either way.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on May 21, 2007, 03:29:22 PM
Jaq

The closest we have for the 4th is Crawford. One thing about JC it didn't matter what he did in the qtrs 1-3, the 4th was a new ball game for him (not necessarily positive) - but at least JC never looked tired in the 4th quarter and wasn't afraid to hoist up the 3pt shot and get himself hot.

I agree that Cleveland really isn't anything special, except they didn't get ruffled by the Nets. I could see the Knicks beating Cleveland but not beating the Nets - its not only matching up, but the way the Nets take pride in being the NY team, they bring it.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 21, 2007, 04:11:46 PM
I say Tayshon prince puts the clamps on Lebron tonight....

Rasheed should also come up big...

Pistons win game 1.

I cant wait for part2 Utah vs Spurs...
I think Utah will play them tougher over the next few games..as the where starting to get the Spurs number
AK47 will start posting Ginobili
Deron will start going at Parker a lot more...

Okur has to hit some shots to draw Duncan away from the basket...Milsap has to play harder

I hope Utah can beat these guys...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 21, 2007, 05:48:36 PM
Poll
Question:    Which player do the Knicks have to get rid of this offseason?

Nate Robinson    - 2 (12.5%)
Steve Francis    - 12 (75%)
Stephon Marbury    - 0 (0%)
Other    - 2 (12.5%)

   
I change my mind.  I'd rather keep Steve on the Injured List.  We can send him home so he doesn't infect the team with his anger at the demotion.  We keep his trade value (what there is) intact and spread the word he's rehabbing his knee for a strong season (and contract run) in 2008.  All it costs us is a roster spot. 

The alternative would be to buy out his contract and see him play for some one else.  Isiah has said they don't want to buy him out if he is healthy.  So that sets up an interesting situation. 

What i dont want to see is Francis on the court anymore. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2007, 05:30:15 AM
I just don't think Utah has the experience or confidence to beat the Spurs.
Utah actually won a lot of games this season with 4th Q rallies.
And they are a strong home team.  Could be a home team series.

I think the Suns made a mistake by not going to Marion more, especially when guarded by Finley.  I think Utah has to trust AK's offense against Finley and other smaller players.
I'd also have Deron go at Parker aggressively.  Spurs can't really afford foul trouble to any of their Big 3.  Boozer has to draw his defender out like he did to Yao.  Boozer can shoot and is a good passer from the high post.

I'd have Okur post Duncan, clear the side and then have Okur slowly back out to the 3-point line.  Let the Spurs adjust to that.  Also, I always think it's a good idea to knock Parker on his ass the first time he drives inside (calling Paul Millsap).  Boozer, Okur and Millsap need to set hard picks on Bowen around mid-court when he is harassing the PG.  Suns got a few good ones in on Bowen the last two games.  Giricek looked incredibly slow while trying to guard Ginobili. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 09:32:18 AM
Francis actually played pretty well most of the season.

Is there a theory that he was soft - that he should have played more?

If not, more needs to be said about which guard in the league Stephon could actually gel with.

Which guard during his career has looked best as his runningmate?

Has there been one that played his best career ball with #3?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 22, 2007, 09:53:56 AM
Kid    Francis is a ball hog who dribbles way to much and then pass with the shotclock running down killing the offense.  I mean do yall ever quit with the marbury bashing, this man played hurt, passionate unselfish ball all season and yet he still can't get no props LEt the brother live he was not the cancer last season in fact he was part of the cure and I believe next season with this years growth and belief in Isaih Steph is gonna take his game to a higher level not just for himself and Isaih but for all you haters who found every excuse in the book to make him the problem.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 10:06:46 AM
Kid    Francis is a ball hog who dribbles way to much and then pass with the shotclock running down killing the offense.  I mean do yall ever quit with the marbury bashing, this man played hurt, passionate unselfish ball all season and yet he still can't get no props LEt the brother live he was not the cancer last season in fact he was part of the cure and I believe next season with this years growth and belief in Isaih Steph is gonna take his game to a higher level not just for himself and Isaih but for all you haters who found every excuse in the book to make him the problem.

Higher level?   I thought he was the best PG in the league.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2007, 10:07:18 AM
I say Tayshon Prince puts the clamps on Lebron tonight....
Rasheed should also come up big...
Pistons win game 1.

Connect:
Mighty fine prediction.

Unfortunately I missed the game.
Looking for one of those 1 hour replay things, but not sure when/if that will occur.
Though there's a Shane Battier commercial on, so there's some hope.

Hope you're right and Utah gets more physical.
They also need to move the ball around.
If Okur starts hitting, that can make life tough for the Spurs.
I just think the experienced teams, Spurs and Pistons, will win.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 22, 2007, 10:11:36 AM
Have to concur with you Jaq, Kiid's playing gymnastics with logic is instructive.

For two months Francis was the absolute personification of everything Marbury has been criticized for over the course of his career…pounding the ball, not looking to pass, not playing any semblance of defense, running a losing team and pointing the finger elsewhere when things weren’t going right.  But to kiid, Francis was playing “well”.  The Knicks go on a grand losing streak when Francis returns and who does Kiid point the finger to?  Everyone’s favorite punching bag Marbury.  

So once again its clear…its not about the basketball with Stephon, its personal dislike.  That’s fine, of course, just call it what it is.

And I agree with Kam….hold on to him until his agent forces a trade somewhere that gets us something, anything (save a longer contract) in return.  Till then, let him rest those knees.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 10:22:48 AM
I say Tayshon Prince puts the clamps on Lebron tonight....
Rasheed should also come up big...
Pistons win game 1.

Connect:
Mighty fine prediction.

Unfortunately I missed the game.
Looking for one of those 1 hour replay things, but not sure when/if that will occur.
Though there's a Shane Battier commercial on, so there's some hope.

Hope you're right and Utah gets more physical.
They also need to move the ball around.
If Okur starts hitting, that can make life tough for the Spurs.
I just think the experienced teams, Spurs and Pistons, will win.

NBATV usually replays the previous night's game in full at noon.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 10:25:48 AM
Have to concur with you Jaq, Kiid's playing gymnastics with logic is instructive.

For two months Francis was the absolute personification of everything Marbury has been criticized for over the course of his career…pounding the ball, not looking to pass, not playing any semblance of defense, running a losing team and pointing the finger elsewhere when things weren’t going right.  But to kiid, Francis was playing “well”.  The Knicks go on a grand losing streak when Francis returns and who does Kiid point the finger to?  Everyone’s favorite punching bag Marbury.  

So once again its clear…its not about the basketball with Stephon, its personal dislike.  That’s fine, of course, just call it what it is.

And I agree with Kam….hold on to him until his agent forces a trade somewhere that gets us something, anything (save a longer contract) in return.  Till then, let him rest those knees.


Francis v Marbury

Much different standard.  I defend Francis' CONTRIBUTION, much like I did Anderson and some others

Not calling either an ALLSTAR


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 22, 2007, 10:32:37 AM
Cleveland never cease to amaze me this squad of misfits have showed they can play with the best of them and damn near pulled off the upset--what a game last night I find myself rooting for them just because I hate when older players like Webber jump on a good team and try to win a ring instead of taking a team to the top like the oldheads use to do.  Steph is the man and if we put a point guard like Mardy next to steph and allow him to play off guard he would reak havoc for the opposing squads because as a 2 guard Steph is an allstar waiting to happen---AGAIN-  If we wind up doing nothing this year and stay the course my starting lineup would be

PG  Mardy
SG  Steph
SF   Q
PF   Lee
C    Curry

second unit

PG  Crawford
SG  N8
SF  Balkman
PF  Jeffries
C    Frye

with appearances by morris


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 22, 2007, 10:58:11 AM
So kiid, is it not a problem when a player is no longer an all-star but plays as though he thinks he still is and demands that kind of role on the team?

As Marbury takes a back seat to the emerging talents on the Knicks, is it reasonable to think Franchise will as well? 

Even if he does, do we need both Marbury and Franchise with Marbs obviously playing the better ball of the two?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 02:22:40 PM
Yeah

Sounds like you are talking Marbury pre '06-'07

Steve started, came off bench, whatever.  Don't recall complaints


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 02:39:37 PM


Even if he does, do we need both Marbury and Franchise with Marbs obviously playing the better ball of the two?
[/quote]

no


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 22, 2007, 02:40:15 PM
But I'd rather deal knucklehead Nate


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 22, 2007, 02:48:22 PM
NBA Draft 2007 Lottery Is Here

Tonight at 8:30 ET on ESPN, one lucky team will win the No. 1 pick in June's NBA Draft. Follow our Consensus Mock Draft to see where Kevin Durant might land.

Question: Do you think the Knicks got thier moneys worth in the Eddy Curry trade/

Chicago recieved Mike Sweetney, Tyrus Thomas and tonights number 9 pick for the Big 19 pts and 8 rebounds per game Eddy Curry.

Somehow I dont see this as the Knicks making out well.

I know we where desperatly in need of a center with jerome james as our starter...Eddy seemed like dream...now he needs lots of work to get him to be what we expected...I know teams where licking thier chops at Jerome James starting in new York.  I think the knicks will be alright if they get one or two of the big 3 players available...Garnett, jermaine ONiel or Pao Gasol..(Ron Artest should be an easy signing)

Lets make it happen and surprise some teams this year.

Oden goes to Memphis--gasol available
Durant goes to Boston...Knicks fall behind Boston in standings if trade is not made.
Bucks, hawks and Sonics improve via draft...

Im not saying that the Knicks dont have a good young core now...but If we dont make a trade we could be left behind as teams all around us improve dramatically..

What say ye forum?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 02:49:35 PM
N8's like a young steve francis.  N8 can drive and finish with contact.  N8 can also shoot fairly from three.  N8 could grab 5 rebs a game if he wanted.  The problem with N8 is he has shown no PG instincts whatsoever and no defensive consistency aside from going for broke steals and blocks.  He is too concerned with the trivial.  That makes him young.  Not necessarily a knucklehead for life, but likely never to be a real PG.  It takes a certain kind of team to be a good fit for N8.

Can we deal with him or do with just deal him?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 02:53:08 PM
Don't forget we got AD in that trade, who netted us one Ro Balkman.

Trade was: EC + Balkman for 2 lotto picks, 2 2nd rounders and the Sweetener.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 22, 2007, 03:23:43 PM
Kam you did not answer my question

Did we make out on that trade or did we lose out?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 03:55:59 PM
If we have seen Eddy's ceiling already, then we lost the deal no matter how the picks turn out.  The opportunity of having two lotto picks is worth more than a Center who doesn't even score 20pts per game.  Doesn't even rebound 8 per game.  Doesn't even block one shot per game.  Doesn't register more than an assist per game.  Turns the ball over three times and plays matador defense.

For the deal to work out, we need Eddy to start playing like we traded two high lotto picks to get him. On both sides of the floor.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 22, 2007, 04:09:24 PM


Sounds like you are talking Marbury pre '06-'07

No.  When Marbury came here this became his team, for better or worse, and he was still playing at an all-star level.  This includes Larry’s year.  When Stephon was playing “well”, we were winning.  When Crawford was playing “well” we were losing.  Same goes for Franchise. 


Steve started, came off bench, whatever.  Don't recall complaints

Franchise was threatening Larry after he was here for a month.  True, no complaints this year, just disappeared with a phantom injury when he wasn't getting the PT.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 22, 2007, 04:15:16 PM
Question:
If we dont make a trade do you guys think we could be left behind as teams all around us improve dramatically..

Kam your thoughts are welcome...

lester are we being left behind?

Our big gamble is what if Lee and Nate and Balkman all take a Frye like downgrade in performance?  

The thing the Knicks dont do is establish the youths talent value based on the past years performance and shop that value real hard to get something that is veteran and has a real track record of doing the job...  

The thing I see teams doing is moving the aging superstar vet when they think he is on the downside of his career before he demands a big renewal contract...

Lets take advatage of that by trading some youth not all.

To quote Yogi berra-
Youth has its advantages but experience aint one of dem...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2007, 04:18:06 PM
Kid - I normally respective your judgements of basketball players' contributions, but I wholeheartedly disagree about Francis. Irrespective of his stats, the team just seemed to play worse when he was on the court. Poor ball movement, poor rotations on D, too many turnovers, even the energy was not that great. The only thing that seemed right was spacing that resulted from Stevie's mid-range shooting and driving WITH the basketball (he did not move much without the basketball).

In almost every respect, especially on D, Stephon provided far superior contributions. Not saying Stephon should be the benchmark for point guards, but it's there that the debate seems to have focused.

---

I'm terribly nervous about the lottery.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 05:13:57 PM
Francis actually played pretty well most of the season.

Is there a theory that he was soft - that he should have played more?

If not, more needs to be said about which guard in the league Stephon could actually gel with.

Which guard during his career has looked best as his runningmate?

Has there been one that played his best career ball with #3?


Ask and ye shall something something...

http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=502 (http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=502)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 05:18:45 PM
Bill Simmons NBA lottery write-up


excerpt


10. BULLS
(No. 9 in the Ping-Pong order, via the Knicks)

Bad Luck -- 0
Front Office Competency -- 10
Loyalty/History -- 8
Level of Devastation -- 0
Overdue Good Karma -- 0
Tanking Karma -- 10
Rigging Potential -- 0
Entertainment Value -- 10

Final karma score: 38

Comments: If this spot comes up and Chicago's logo isn't in the No. 10 envelope, it immediately becomes the most dramatic lottery moment of all-time. Every Knicks fan would cease breathing for the rest of the lottery. That's no exaggeration. Whether they'd ever start breathing again remains to be seen. Still, does it seem fair that a top-eight playoff team with a great future -- the same franchise that launched two rebuilding plans in four years and made nine top-seven picks in seven years -- could stumble into a franchise player by fleecing the most incompetent GM in recent NBA history? I say no.

(Note: I had to give the Bulls a "0" for rigging potential simply because there could be rioting in Manhattan if Isiah caused the Knicks to lose either Oden or Durant. It would be like the Ewing lottery, only the exact opposite. You might even see Knicks fans storming MSG holding fire torches with their shirts tied around their heads. I'm assuming the league wants to avoid this scenario.)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 22, 2007, 06:08:01 PM
Biz, my man, I'm poopin' bricks.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 22, 2007, 09:40:52 PM
Trade was: EC + Balkman (+ spending an extra $15M on Jalen Rose) for 2 lotto picks, 2 2nd rounders and the Sweetener.

I think this is important, because we got the late 1st round pick (Balk) only because we took on a huge salary, and that player (Rose) did nothing for us.  Also, Ad's ending contract wasn't even necessary because we had Penny's ending deal already.
Conclusion: disingenuous to add the Balkster to the deal.

EC + AD (who helped us until his wife, etc.) for ...


Title: Testicles Intact
Post by: chipstern on May 22, 2007, 09:46:04 PM
Kam, we disagree.  

Love you, but Eddy is coming along nicely.  Room for improvement?  You bet.  But how about the improvement he showed this year, and by the way, look at the stats--and he basically averages 20 points and 8 boards a game.  Hello!

Oh, and Isiah's testicles are no longer in play.  Something good awaits us at #23.  Bulls got #9, God bless 'em.  

Portland gets Oden, which means Aldridge is the PF and Zach Randolph will be getting a new home...with Outlaw at SF (Darius Miles anyone), and Foye and jack in the back court with Martell Webster hopefully maturing?  Nice fucking front line.  Godd for the Blazers.  God giving them a Mulligan on Sam Bowie.  

And Durant going to Seattle?  Rashard Lewis, hello sign-and-trade!

So who does Atlanta pick at #3.  Another forward is my guess.  Maybe a trade?  

Not giving Bulls the #1 or #2 was only exceeded by my pleasure in Heinsohn's sour pisspuss with the #5 pick.  Still, Celtics will get a ball player.  So will Memphis.  Maybe West drafts the center from Georgetown, so Gasol can play PF.  

I was kinda rooting for the Wolves to get Oden.  

Who do Bulls pick at #9.  A PF beast.  Like their roster.  Maybe they get Noah?  Think he lasts that long?  


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 22, 2007, 09:52:20 PM
Disingenous is too polite, a lie is closer to the truth. Ending contracts were swapped in the trade, either could have been used w/toronto. In any case, anyone could have had balkman for $2 mil instead of $30 as phoenix was handing out picks to any willing buyer. Balk is further evidence of Zeek's ability to fleece himself.

Anyway.....

Congrats Lenny. You deserve it.

Congrats Portland. You deserve it. Stayed with the "hardass" coach who did terrible things like call out the players and made them play D rather than back the mutineers.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 22, 2007, 09:56:28 PM
Quote
lester are we being left behind?

but of course!

By the way, Eddy's 20 per minus the 19 he gives up on defense and turnovers were probably worth approximately TWO wins to us, or exactly enough to put us in the ODEN slot.
I'd still make that trade

My butt!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 10:00:52 PM
Trade was: EC + Balkman (+ spending an extra $15M on Jalen Rose) for 2 lotto picks, 2 2nd rounders and the Sweetener.

I think this is important, because we got the late 1st round pick (Balk) only because we took on a huge salary, and that player (Rose) did nothing for us.  Also, Ad's ending contract wasn't even necessary because we had Penny's ending deal already.
Conclusion: disingenuous to add the Balkster to the deal.

EC + AD (who helped us until his wife, etc.) for ...

If you're going to count pennies and split hairs, we also lost the headcase that was Tim Thomas. I count that as a plus too. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 22, 2007, 10:05:06 PM
yeah that was a plus, til Zeke went out and spent $13 mil per year to replace him with the incredible shrinking Jared Jeffries


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 22, 2007, 10:19:44 PM
yeah that was a plus, til Zeke went out and spent $13 mil per year to replace him with the incredible shrinking Jared Jeffries

jj gets 6


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 22, 2007, 10:23:51 PM
x2 for lux tax 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 22, 2007, 11:16:06 PM
If Curry doesn't tip that shot in against Charlotte in game 82 for the 1 point win, that's possibly New York and not Portland that "wins" the lottery.

So Curry saves the Curry trade, but in a strange, less satisfying fashion.

Chip - I think Atlanta takes Conley with the 3rd pick. Possibly Horford if they think they can partner him with Shelden up front, but I can't see them passing YET again on a point guard. The real question is who does Memphis take at 4: Brewer, Horford, Yi, or Brandon Wright. I like the players chances for success in that order.

I suppose Portland could go for Durant, but I suspect they take Oden and trade Zach to Dallas in a complicated deal that also involves Jarret Jack going to Dallas and Jason Terry going to Portland.

Hope this saves basketball in Seattle. That city has hoops history.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 12:26:16 AM
This draft was just what the Leastern conference needed to stay mediocre for years to come. Yay for the Knicks.


Title: Biz
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2007, 01:45:48 AM
Portland takes Oden.  Bank on it. 

You kidding me.  Durant will be a star, yummyyummy, and would be #1 in any other draft, but not this one. 

They may indeed trade Randolph, but not Jack, no way--Nate's type of player.  More likely they try and hold a fire sale for Darius the Inglarius Miles. 

Dallas?  Why would Portland want Jason Terry.  Terrific offensive player, but not a steady Eddie like Jack.  Zack?  Where's Dirk play? 

According to HoopsHype, Bulls will be at $46,782,085 for 2007-2008.  What's the cap?  Like somewhere in the mid-to-high 50s?  Deng is the SF of the future, so Nocioni in a sign and trade?  Add Duhon.  Don't think Paxson is too keen on trading #9 pick.  Maybe their 2008 #1?  Or toss in Selfolosha.  Randolph is a head case, and I could see him butting heads with Skiles, but without Curry Bulls are pretty desperate for a post scorer, and Zack has a formidable inside-outside game.  Nocioni at SF would be nice match for the Blazers.  But hey, maybe they keep Zack and LaMarcus is a sixth man a la Frye behind Oden and Zack, and they offload Pryzbilla. 

Any way you slice it, Portland has hit the jackpot.  Roy is a star, Jack is solid, Webster might yet mature into a pretty solid big guard.  They have lot of size upfront.  Outlaw and Miles at SF. 

Anway, can we stop jerking off about how we coulda had Oden or Durant.  That is BS.  

Who we take at #23?  Who might drop?

HoopsHype has taking Ante Tomic, a 7'2" Croatian.  Don't see it...to much of a project.   

More likely we narrow it down to (if they drop) Marcus Williams from Arizona, Morris Almond from Rice, Marco Belinelli from Italy...all big guards (Williams projects as a swing SG/SF)...Rudy Fernandez...who score off the ball and from midrange and long range.  Any of these guys would be a solid addition.   

And God Forbid Jeff Green or Brandon Rush fell, more in the classic SF mode. 

One would think that drafting Randolph Morris would narrow us down to SF and SG prospects, but even bigs like Tiago Splitter or Josh McRoberts might fall. 

All of you suicide cases should try and remember that last year in a relatively weak draft Balkman was there at #20 and Mardy at #29.  Something solid will be there at #23.

Even Lester will be happy...but not for long.   


Title: Too Funny
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2007, 02:01:07 AM
The NY TIMES is too fucking much. 

Read Beck's article on the draft, and West's comments about how he hates the lottery, as well he should, with the worse record int he league, in football, he's have had the #1 pick, case closed. 

Anyway, saw some Knick links, including DISCUSS KNICKS. 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Dig...this is the last post on our old FORUM. 

liquid5ilver - 3:14 PM ET April 9, 2007 (#45852 of 45852)
If you're going through hell, keep going
You can continue your discussions at:
http://forums.escapefromelba.com/


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on May 23, 2007, 04:55:58 AM
Papabear Says

We will get something at #23 who can help us right away.I think Zekes bench mark for starters must be that everyone is capable of knocking down shots, keeping the defense of other teams honest. We better get that pure shooter because without it we are a 30 game winning team and Zeke will be gone.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on May 23, 2007, 04:57:16 AM
Papabear Says

Hey this blog site may be a winner.

Papabear.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 23, 2007, 08:58:43 AM
Isn't it hilarious West thought he'd trash the season and get the best player NO SO. I love the makeup of the draft you can trash your season at your own risk HA HA HA. This oughta be a lesson to the masses of nba GMs who try to play dirty ball, you don't get rewarded for trashing your season --while other team are fighting for a playoff spot your giving away wins.  The media is hilarious the bulls had a 1 percent chance of getting the number one pick and yet they made it sound like it was lock for them. Curry played his best ball of his career and as the season went on I started seeing a little mean streak in him, demanding the ball getting in the guards faces, if this continues and Aguirre helps him develop a midrange shot and show him how to just clog the paint (you don't have to block every shot just contest it)  then we still come out on top.  Lastly I think we trade this pick personally but if we don't IN ISAIH WE TRUST he'll find us a player you can bet on that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 09:33:38 AM
Don't forget we got AD in that trade, who netted us one Ro Balkman.

Trade was: EC + Balkman for 2 lotto picks, 2 2nd rounders and the Sweetener.

I was wrong before:

Trade was: EC23rd pick + Balkman for 2 lotto picks, 2 2nd rounders, ($15mil) and the Sweetener.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 09:52:02 AM
This draft was good for us in terms of playoff possibilities in the years to come.

Boston must pick 5th.  76ers 12th!  Earlier this year we thought Oden and Durant would be in our division.  Now they're not even in our conference.  Atlanta is the only EAST team (3rd and 11th picks) that stands to really improve from the draft.  Other competitors included the Bucks @ pick 6th, Bobcats @ pick 8th, Bulls @ pick 9...

Really good for NY.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2007, 11:07:19 AM
I think the "sky is falling" crowd forging opionions that the teams not getting Oden or Durant are losers are jumping the gun.

Plenty of excellent talent at least 6 deep.  C's and Grizz are fine.  West a lummox for immediately making his #1, whoever it may be, feel inferior.

Do C's take Connelly, Brewer if he's ther or the big?  Hmmmmm


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: yankguy on May 23, 2007, 11:19:43 AM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 23, 2007, 12:29:44 PM
If the nets resign Carter they may want to dump Jefferson for a big man how about Malik and Frye for Jefferson they get two big men and we get our SF


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 12:41:32 PM
If the nets resign Carter they may want to dump Jefferson for a big man how about Malik and Frye for Jefferson they get two big men and we get our SF

Never in a bazillion years does Rod Thorn hand the Knicks RJ.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 23, 2007, 12:49:19 PM
Biz, my man, I'm poopin' bricks.

That will teach you to eat houses.

I strongly recommend a stool softener.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2007, 01:04:02 PM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 23, 2007, 01:38:42 PM
West a lummox for immediately making his #1, whoever it may be, feel inferior.
First off, West is outta there.
Secondly, inferior to what, Oden and Durant?
I think most prospects can identify priorities and rank based on a numbered list.

Though West should probably have realized going in that his team had only a 25% chance of getting the top pick, meaning that the chances were 3 times greater that another team would get it.  Also, why should losing heavily or assembling a bad team entitle a team to the best player in the next draft.  And lastly, the Griz were far from being the least talented team last season.  Gasol's injury and trading away a savvy vet (Battier) for a raw youth (Gay) had alot to do with their record.

I agree that getting the #4 pick is still pretty damn useful, and is actually a subsidy given by the league, since only the first three spots are lotterized.  Picking at the 4th spot might require a little more skill and acumen, but there should be a future all-star available there.

And if you are so big on the next big China import, you might want to learn his name: Yi JianLian (Yee Jee-in Lee-en), or simply Yi.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 23, 2007, 01:58:12 PM
Definition of true love: My wife just got me an official Balkman Road Blue Jersey for my B-Day. It'll be here in 10 days, mas o menos.

That being the case I still want Isiah to take another SF with the 23rd pick. A player named Dominic McGuire.

This is from a Draft Express write up of a private workout with him last week..

Quote
The reason for the improvement he’s seen, besides the hard work he’s been putting in 6 times a week over the past 7 weeks, lies in the improved mechanics Moss has implemented in his shot.

On film, it’s easy to tell that McGuire would do a great job creating separation from defenders and taking advantage of his explosive leaping ability by just jumping in the air as high as he could and then releasing his jumper from an inconsistent vantage point from shot to shot, often on the way down.

Moss has eliminated the hop in McGuire’s spot-up set-shot, getting him to set his feet and release the ball fluidly and fundamentally with good arc and follow-through and a clean snap of the wrist. The results were evident throughout the workout (even if he’s not a finished product yet)-- and if McGuire can find a way to shoot at or near the 70% we charted in this drill from the college 3-point line in NBA private workouts, he will help himself tremendously in the eyes of scouts.

Being an athletic and highly versatile 6-8 wing who rebounds (9.8 per game), blocks shots (3.6 per game), passes (3.3 assists), runs the floor and is highly active makes him an intriguing prospect for sure, but being able to knock down open spot-up 3-pointers on top of that makes him that much more valuable, potentially.


I'd like to go into next year able to put two defensive freaks on the wing at all times even with injuries. Mcguire is part of that equation. I think we already have 2 guys who make it tough for wing players in Q and Balkman. I'd like to add Artest and Mcguire to this, keeping Eddy and Lee down low and Marbs, Craw, and Collins as primary guards.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 02:05:39 PM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 23, 2007, 02:08:10 PM
 Sean Williams   http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/bviewplayer.asp?Player=47673
  
 Class:Junior
 
 Hometown:Houston, TX
 
 High School:Mansfield
 
  Height / Weight:
6-10 / 235
 
 Position:Forward
NOTES

5 - Number of games this season in which 6-10 Boston College junior Sean Williams has had at least seven blocked shots (including two double-digit games)  

Misfired: Sean Williams' off-the-court problems. As Hibbert began to dominate, it was tough to wonder what would have happened if Boston College still had Williams. The 6-foot-10 center was blocking five shots a game when he was kicked off the squad for violating team rules in mid-January. Williams would have more than likely slowed down Hibbert and given the Eagles a much better chance at making a deep run.

Has led the team in blocked shots each of his first two seasons; set a school single-season record with 63 blocked shots in 2004-05; blocked 55 shots in 2005-06 (third on the school's singleseason list).
Has blocked three or more shots in each of 17 games - 10 games as a freshman and seven games as a sophomore.
Recorded at least one blocked shot in each of the last 15 games.
AS A SOPHOMORE


Played in 27 games, including 15 ACC contests.
Averaged 3.1 points, 3.4 rebounds and 2.0 blocked shots per game; averaged 2.7 points, 2.9 rebounds and 1.8 blocked shots per game in league contests.
Scored in double figures once.
Ranked among ACC leaders (conference games only) in blocked shots (third, 1.80/game).
Led or tied for the team lead in blocked shots 21 times and in steals three times.
Recorded five or more rebounds in each of nine games; blocked two or more in each of 16 games.
Registered seven points, seven rebounds and a career-high nine blocked shots in a career-high 35 minutes of action in the team's double-overtime win at NC State (2/25); swatted two shots in the first half, four in the second half, one in the first overtime and two in the second overtime.
Totaled 13 points, five rebounds, two blocked shots and two steals in a win at Holy Cross (1/17).
Averaged 3.0 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2.0 blocked shots per game in the Eagles' three ACC Tournament contests; blocked two shots in each of the three games.
Averaged 3.3 points, 5.0 rebounds and 3.0 blocked shots per game in the team's three NCAA Tournament contests; swatted five shots in a second-round win over Montana (in Salt Lake City); posted seven points, seven rebounds and three blocked shots against Villanova in the regional semifinals (in Minneapolis).
AS A FRESHMAN


Played in 27 games, including all 16 conference contests.
Averaged 4.1 points, 3.5 rebounds and 2.3 blocked shots per game; averaged 4.1 points, 3.3 rebounds and 2.3 blocked shots per game in league contests.
Earned Big East All-Rookie Team honors.
Gained Big East Rookie of the Week honors (Jan. 10) for his efforts against Connecticut and Providence.
Scored in double figures in two games.
Grabbed double-digit rebounds in one game.
Recorded one point-rebound double-double; totaled 16 points and 10 rebounds (seven at the offensive end) - both career highs - in a home win over Providence (1/8); shot 7-for-7 from the field.
Ranked among Big East leaders (conference games only) in blocked shots (third, 2.25/game).
Led or tied for the team lead in blocked shots 20 times, in rebounding once and in steals once.
Blocked eight shots in a win at Providence (1/26); also tallied four points and two rebounds in 27 minutes of action.
Registered six blocked shots, two points, two rebounds and two steals in the team's win over UCLA in the John R. Wooden Classic in Anaheim, Calif. (12/5).
Posted six points, five blocked shots and four rebounds in a home win over Seton Hall (2/23).
Began his career with a seven-point, seven-rebound, four-blocked shot outing in the season opener against Maine (11/19).
Tallied eight points, six rebounds and three blocked shots in 26 minutes of action in his Big East debut - at Connecticut (1/5).
Averaged 8.5 points, 5.0 rebounds and 1.5 blocked shots per game in the team's two NCAA Tournament contests in Cleveland, Ohio; notched 11 points and seven rebounds in a first-round win over Pennsylvania (3/17).
HIGH SCHOOL


Averaged 16.0 points, 10.1 rebounds and 5.6 blocked shots per game as a senior at Mansfield High School; set a district record for single-season blocked shots.
Captured All-Region and All-District first-team honors in 2003-04.
Earned 2003-04 District 4-5A Defensive Player of the Year honors; was also selected as the district's top newcomer (he played just one season at Mansfield).
Gained Class 5A Region 1 first-team honors from the Texas Association of Basketball Coaches.
Played summer ball with the Dallas Mustangs in 2003; played for coach Tony Johnson.
PERSONAL


 
 
 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 23, 2007, 02:12:53 PM
Damn connect and we can get him for free sign me up I don't care how much pot the brother smoke sheeeiiittt you check my urine I'll be band from working the register in mcdonalds.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 23, 2007, 02:16:05 PM
And if you are so big on the next big China import, you might want to learn his name: Yi JianLian (Yee Jee-in Lee-en), or simply Yi.

I like that guy a lot.

I’m going out on a limb to say that he’ll even be better than what’s-his-face who plays for that team in Houston.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 23, 2007, 02:24:00 PM
Marcus Williams  -  Current Team: Arizona, Sophomore 
Physicals:
H: 6' 7"
W: 205 lbs
Bday: 11/18/1986
(20 Years Old)
 
Rankings:
Round: 1 Pick: 23 in 2007 Mock Draft
Rank 5 in NCAA Sophomores
Rank 4 in Top-20 '07 SGs

Williams projects to be a consummate NBA swingman, being versatile enough to do a little bit of everything NBA teams expect from the position. The most impressive aspect of his game thus far would probably be his mid-range game. Williams has excellent shooting form with a high and quick release, high elevation on his jump shot, and with his long arms, the release point on his shot is unblockable by most. He can get his shot off in an instant with very little space, and he uses a nice combination of crossovers and fakes to get the little separation he needs to get his shot off. Equally impressive is that he’s able to get the shot off on the move when it would appear he doesn’t have great balance, though he does a good job keeping his body upright even while moving. He’s not entirely consistent with this aspect of his game yet, but he’s farther along with it than many players ever get, and considering he’s shooting 54% from the field in a feature role this year, it’s tough to get down on his shot selection.

Another area where Williams really excels is moving without the ball, specifically getting open underneath the basket by slipping behind the defense. He does this probably a handful of times every game, and even if he catches the ball on the baseline under the rim, he still usually manages to find a way to get the ball in the basket, using a combination of his length, flexibility, and his savvy in using reverse lay-ups and the backboard to score from places many other players can’t. He also does a good job cutting through the lane without the ball, and shows a good touch around the rim, using his creativity to finish even in tight traffic.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2007, 02:36:51 PM
pASS PASS PASS PASS PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's 20.  Need some men on this team


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 23, 2007, 02:39:53 PM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.

Piss off, pal.  He's a Chinaman.  Go change your pad.


Title: Wayman Tisdale
Post by: chipstern on May 23, 2007, 02:40:57 PM
Apples and oranges my brother.  Tisdale.  Primarily a low post fireplug, and Robinson a different physical type as well.  

Durant remineds me more of Danny Manning, Len Bias...long and lithe.  Much taller and longer than, and far, FAR better ballhandler  than either Tisdale or Robinson, and better at creating off of the dribble...borderline PG skills, who can board and pass, qucik release, take you facing the hoop from midrange or the dressing room.  

His upside is WAY HIGHER.  Ask Bobby Knight.  This kid is the real deal.  Rashard Lewis just lost his leverage and his SF job.  He is out of Seattle, unless Seattle sees Durant playing some SG and PG.  

By the way Kam, it was two lottos, two number 2s, plus Sweetney AND Tim Thomas...

That BC big sounds lovely but volatile, along the lines of Eddie Griffin.  As a non-draft pick roster invite?  Sure.  

But we need a Richard Jefferson or Allan Houston-type, someone who can punish double teams and zones for collapsing on Eddy.  

And I look for Channing to bounce back not by bounced out of town.  

Lester...I can feel your pain.  I just don't buy your line...sorry...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 02:41:02 PM
pASS PASS PASS PASS PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He's 20.  Need some men on this team

Any rookie drafted at 23 is gonna be in the same boat. 20, 21, 22... what matter. None are "men" in that sense yet.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 02:42:03 PM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.

Piss off, pal.  He's a Chinaman.  Go change your pad.

This isn't a guy who built the fucking railroads here. This is a guy...

TBL? anyone?? "he peed on my rug!"  Get a clue kidereeno.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2007, 02:43:29 PM
I think the "sky is falling" crowd forging opionions that the teams not getting Oden or Durant are losers are jumping the gun.

Plenty of excellent talent at least 6 deep.  C's and Grizz are fine.  West a lummox for immediately making his #1, whoever it may be, feel inferior.

Do C's take Connelly, Brewer if he's ther or the big?  Hmmmmm

Well said Kid. I think C's should take Brewer - I'm convinced he's destined for multiple all-star appearances. But I'm happy to say they will probably take Yi.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2007, 02:47:51 PM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.

Piss off, pal.  He's a Chinaman.  Go change your pad.

That's idiotic Kid. Get over yourself.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 23, 2007, 02:57:28 PM
Guys I am not seeing too much from Isiah on what he plans to do...He is playing he cards close to his vest...AND THATS A GOOD THING.

I see isiah making a trade for a veteran Big and maybe a long range shooter...

I think the Knicks want to keep a balance of veterans and youth...

The Knicks (which alot of folks would disagree) are right on the verge of being a good team, this draft and trade season is very important for NY.  We must do well...but we must do something...to stand pat would be to fall behind while folks are improving...lee balkman, marty, nate..are all good additions on the youth front..it give us energy and trade bait (something we have not had in a while) to make some changes...Isiah is learing that you dont highly publisize the inquiries he makes to other teams and he should deny offering up his players as well...

I see a lot of activty happening this offseason...Garnett, Artest, O Niel, Vince, Zach, a bunch of west Coast players..
There is also the pool of incoming college players....and the International players out there..

Lets view the tape and discuss our weaknesses and strengths to determine what we really need.

Defensive stops is onething...  Shot blocking is another...Solid consistant outside shooting including the 3 point shot... A point guard with true playmaking skills...say 10 assist a game...

One last thing that is really hard to get these days...a All Star Player..or real superstar!

lets make it happen


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 03:03:12 PM
For all the DLee believers. 
Trade Frye+N8+JJ2 to seattle for Rashard Lewis.

Trade Balkman and Morris for a first rounder in the teens. 
Use our two first round picks to draft a shooter at the SG and a shot blocker like Williams

Marbury / Collins
SG / Craw
Rashard / Q
DLee / Malik
Curry / Williams


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 23, 2007, 03:54:42 PM
The more I read on Williams the more Im liking this guy he is just what we need at PF, I mean starting next ot Curry and since WIllaims made a mistake and we know how people love to persecute atheletes who made mistakes we may be able to get him and then all we'll have to do is offer sacto Jeffries and Frye for Artest and we'll be ready for the big dance.

PG Mardy
SG Steph
SF Artest
PF  Williams
C    Curry

second unit

PG Crawford
SG Q
SF Balkman
PF Lee
C  Morris

I like that ten with N8 and whoever else we scoop up on the bench


Title: G'TOWN
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 03:56:40 PM
Hibbert staying in School another year, but Jeff Green is IN the draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2879914 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2879914)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2007, 03:57:58 PM
Kam - Nick Young and Tiago Splitter might be available in the teens. Either would be interesting. If we take Young, I say draft Jason Smith with the late pick. If Splitter, take Almond or Fernendez with the late pick.

Jaq, Kam - I don't see Isiah taking Sean Williams. Isiah has been pretty focused on team guys, not headcases, in his last several personnel moves. Don't see him shifting gears for a player with limited impact such as Williams. Remember, he has to coach these guys.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 23, 2007, 04:19:25 PM
Chinaman?
Sounds like kiid has started watching Deadwood afterall.
It's clearly offensive terminology, but is such a bizarre word that it's curiously fascinating.

On a sidenote: the term "yellow" for Chinese was similarly derogatory in nature/usage, but I was surprised to learn that in China it's perfectly acceptable.  The reason: in Chinese "yellow" is a broad color category which also includes what we differentiate as various shades of brown.  Hence the Yellow River, Yellow Sea, etc.

On a further tangent, my favorite English words from Chinese are shanghai, kowtow, and coolie.  The latter a direct reference to the Chinese railroad laborers, though these days usually used in the phrase "coolie wages" to describe hard work for low pay, but not necessarily the physical labor it originally meant.  I guess when an IT guy talks about coolie wages, it's like an NBA player calling himself a rebellious slave.  Okay, I don't know where the hell this is going, but kaolin, litchi, and shantung are also good, but less used/useful, words from Chinese.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 23, 2007, 04:25:01 PM
wow is there any subject that is taboo all you guys must be scholars.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 23, 2007, 04:27:32 PM
Senior National Team Managing Director Jerry Colangelo officially announced Wednesday in Las Vegas, Nev., the addition of Carlos Boozer (Utah Jazz); Tyson Chandler (New Orleans Hornets); Kevin Durant (University of Texas); Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets); Mike Miller (Memphis Grizzlies); Greg Oden (Ohio State University); Tayshaun Prince (Detroit Pistons); and Deron Williams (Utah Jazz) to the Senior National Team roster.

Colangelo also confirmed that seven USA Senior National Team players would be unavailable to compete this summer because of injuries. Those players included Gilbert Arenas (Washington Wizards); Joe Johnson (Atlanta Hawks); Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings); Lamar Odom (Los Angeles Lakers); Chris Paul (New Orleans Hornets); Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) and Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat).

As I said when we announced the first group of players for the Senior National Team, we’re not trying to put a collection of all-stars together but our goal is to put together as good of a basketball team as we possibly can. With the addition of these nine players, I believe we’ve strengthen our program in several areas, especially rebounding, defense and shooting," said USA and Duke University head coach Mike Krzyzewski.

The eight announced players will join 17 players previously named to the USA Basketball Senior National Team and who are expected to participate in 2007. Those USA players include: Carmelo Anthony (Denver Nuggets); Shane Battier (Houston Rockets); Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons); Chris Bosh (Toronto Raptors); Bruce Bowen (San Antonio Spurs); Elton Brand (Los Angeles Clippers); Kobe Bryant (Los Angeles Lakers); Kirk Hinrich (Chicago Bulls); Dwight Howard (Orlando Magic); LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers); Antawn Jamison (Washington Wizards); Shawn Marion (Phoenix Suns); Adam Morrison (Charlotte Bobcats); Michael Redd (Milwaukee Bucks); J.J. Redick (Orlando Magic); Luke Ridnour (Seattle SuperSonics); and Amaré Stoudemire (Phoenix Suns).

Krzyzewski is leading the USA Senior Team for 2006-2008, while Syracuse University (N.Y.) and Hall of Fame coach Jim Boeheim, Phoenix Suns head mentor Mike D’Antoni and Portland Trail Blazers head coach Nate McMillan will serve as assistant coaches.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2007, 05:28:54 PM
32 players mentioned, and not a knick in the lot. There used to be some talk of Channing Frye, whose game may translate well to the international game, but his sophmore slump crushed all that.

Not one Knick!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 05:32:00 PM
32 players mentioned, and not a knick in the lot. There used to be some talk of Channing Frye, whose game may translate well to the international game, but his sophmore slump crushed all that.

Not one Knick!

No biggie.  Our guys can rest.  Those other guys usually get hurt the year after.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2007, 06:43:00 PM
And it's not like we have players on other Olympics-bound teams, as New York is, along with Miami, one of only two teams without any international players. Unless you count Nate, who presumably is from Mars.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 23, 2007, 09:18:31 PM
When does ABC start taking the games prime time? Hopefully no time soon - I can't stand that Pussycats Dolls interlude, and the TNT crew is far superior, as is, to a lesser extent, the ESPN crew. The network crews (even with NBC and before that CBS) have always been so terribly bland.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 23, 2007, 11:25:32 PM
This is great for Portland and Seattle.  Count them among the lucky small market teams to get a Superstar.  The Spurs are a case in point.  These franchises probably NEED the ultra-mega-star more than the Big Market teams like Boston and New York.  The NBA as a whole may suffer, but its good for those small markets, which is ultimately also good for the league, though in a different way.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 24, 2007, 08:51:01 AM
The small market teams getting the best players are killing the nba, it use to be rivalries, I mean good ones too that people wanted to see like boston against the lakers, New york against Miami, Detroit against chicago  I mean real good storylines and exciting basketball ---games you really had to watch or you wasn't down with the IN crowd.  Now we got series like Detroit against cleveland WACK   san anton against utah WACK.  Stern need to stop worrying about these small market teams and start concentrating on the Teams that made the nba like none other than YOUR NEW YORK KNICKS.  Imagine the buzz if we'd got Oden or Durant that would be on the front page like it was more important than the war.


Title: Dont cry for Oden
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2007, 10:21:17 AM
He wouldn't have made it in NY anyway.  Not with this:

After talking with confidants about Portland winning the No. 1 pick, Oden expressed relief that he was going to a smaller market. He never has been enamored with the bright lights and big city. He was born in Buffalo, raised in Indianapolis and had little appetite for the suffocating pressures of, say, Boston.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: liquidsilver on May 24, 2007, 10:40:40 AM
Quote
These franchises probably NEED the ultra-mega-star more than the Big Market teams like Boston and New York.

I don't know about that, I think having the Knicks and Celtics in the hunt is great for the game.  Bring back the days of yore.  The complexities of the salary cap system is killing teams.  That we had to carry Vin Baker on the books for three years that he didn't play for us is ridiculous.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2007, 10:44:17 AM
32 players mentioned, and not a knick in the lot. There used to be some talk of Channing Frye, whose game may translate well to the international game, but his sophmore slump crushed all that.

Not one Knick!

STEPH STAY HOME!

LOL


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2007, 10:46:03 AM
When does ABC start taking the games prime time? Hopefully no time soon - I can't stand that Pussycats Dolls interlude, and the TNT crew is far superior, as is, to a lesser extent, the ESPN crew. The network crews (even with NBC and before that CBS) have always been so terribly bland.

I'm looking forward to the JVG - Mark Jax mix


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 24, 2007, 10:55:03 AM
I think Isiahs going to play on the Olympic team...afetr all he is the only All Star we have. ;D ??? ::) :'( :'(


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2007, 11:00:14 AM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.

Piss off, pal.  He's a Chinaman.  Go change your pad.

That's idiotic Kid. Get over yourself.

Apologies to Kam.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2007, 11:01:50 AM
Quote
These franchises probably NEED the ultra-mega-star more than the Big Market teams like Boston and New York.

I don't know about that, I think having the Knicks and Celtics in the hunt is great for the game.  Bring back the days of yore.  The complexities of the salary cap system is killing teams.  That we had to carry Vin Baker on the books for three years that he didn't play for us is ridiculous.



I agree that its better for the NBA as a whole to have the big market teams be strong.  But its much better for Portland fans and management as well as Seattle that those fan bases not lose their franchises.  The NBA can't afford to lose the Pacific Northwest market.  Its good for the League to have competetive teams everywhere.  So this isn't necessarily bad for the league, and wouldn't even be an issue if the Celtics and the Knicks weren't so mismanaged.  

If Boston, NY, Chi, Philly, LA all had strong teams, then no one would cry over this lottery result.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2007, 11:09:38 AM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.

Piss off, pal.  He's a Chinaman.  Go change your pad.

That's idiotic Kid. Get over yourself.

Apologies to Kam.

The Dude: Walter, what is the point? Look, we all know who is at fault here, what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: Huh? No, what the fuck are you... I'm not... We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude.
Donny: What the fuck is he talking about?
The Dude: My rug.
Walter Sobchak: Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
The Dude: Walter, this isn't a guy who built the fucking railroads here. This is a guy...
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about?
The Dude: Walter, he peed on my rug!
Donny: He peed on the Dude's rug.
Walter Sobchak: Donny you're out of your element! Dude, the Chinaman is not the issue here!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: liquidsilver on May 24, 2007, 11:10:31 AM
I think the ping-pong ball system is ridiculous.  Just because Houston went and tanked their season so that they could get the top pick, now every bottom dweller has to be punished as a result.  The commissioner should have handled it on the administrative side rather than penalized everyone for one team's transgression


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2007, 11:16:16 AM
I think the ping-pong ball system is ridiculous.  Just because Houston went and tanked their season so that they could get the top pick, now every bottom dweller has to be punished as a result.  The commissioner should have handled it on the administrative side rather than penalized everyone for one team's transgression

The thing is, i haven't seen someone suggest a better system that is tank-proof.  It can't be done.  The NBA comes pretty close to making its draft system tank-resistant.  Thats all you can ask for.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 24, 2007, 11:41:23 AM
I think the ping pong system is great and should be used in all sports you should not be awarded for trashing your season.  Some teams still need the cellar teams to win games at the end of the season to determine thier playoff position and if your just tanking the season so you can get a high draft pick your tampering with the rest of league.  What happened with this draft is great and it should serve as an example to all teams PLAY TO WIN.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 24, 2007, 11:48:55 AM
kam

what the heck are you talking about/

Re: Knicks
« Reply #608 on: Today at 11:09:38 AM »

Chinamen?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 24, 2007, 11:56:25 AM
When david stern gets finished with this league thier wont be any physical play left in the league...offensive fouls will rule the day...teams wont be able to improve based on salary cap woes...the west coast will maintain the dominance over the East simply because the East cant improve without taking on a tremendous amount of luxury tax...

I say soon there will be a non physical fast paced International league that includes all the Olympic countries... 

based on all the new hoops stadiums going up all over the planet


And the USA wont be dominant..

we owe it all to Stern the genious.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2007, 01:09:15 PM
Just my 2 cents...I'm not as sold on Durrant as everyone else seems to be.  I don't see his game being all that different than were guys like Glen Robinson and Wayman Tisdale (dominant scorers all over the court) who also came out of college early.  Both turned into decent pros, but hardly franchise players.   That said, Durrant's the clear #2, but not getting him doesn't seem to be the biggest loss in the world.

Yeah, why would anyone want that 7 foot Chinaman with a handle?

Dude, "Chinaman" is not the preferred nomenclature.

Piss off, pal.  He's a Chinaman.  Go change your pad.

That's idiotic Kid. Get over yourself.

Apologies to Kam.

The Dude: Walter, what is the point? Look, we all know who is at fault here, what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: Huh? No, what the fuck are you... I'm not... We're talking about unchecked aggression here, dude.
Donny: What the fuck is he talking about?
The Dude: My rug.
Walter Sobchak: Forget it, Donny, you're out of your element!
The Dude: Walter, the chinaman who peed on my rug, I can't go give him a bill, so what the fuck are you talking about?
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about? The chinaman is not the issue here, Dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude. Across this line, you DO NOT... Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please.
The Dude: Walter, this isn't a guy who built the fucking railroads here. This is a guy...
Walter Sobchak: What the fuck are you talking about?
The Dude: Walter, he peed on my rug!
Donny: He peed on the Dude's rug.
Walter Sobchak: Donny you're out of your element! Dude, the Chinaman is not the issue here!


LOL

One of these days I'll see the flick.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 24, 2007, 01:09:29 PM
So the already stacked Western Conference now gets the two players most likely to be superstars? Crazy. However, I am not on the bandwagon for getting rid of the lottery as now seems to be the popular sentiment. I don't see how it can be changed much to improve things.

The NBA made it more difficult for the last teams in the lottery to win (http://www.nba.com/history/draft_evolution.html) after Orlando won the lottery twice in a row after being the closest team to not make the playoffs in 1993 (with a .500 record), by adding ping pong balls (in 1993 Orlando had 1 chance in 66 of winning the lotto and did) and changing the number of chances of winning. This  decreased the chance of the team with the best record winning (from 1.5% to .5%) and increased the chance of team with worse record winning (from 16.7% to 25%). Then adjusted the chances after the Grizz and Raptors entered:

Quote
1996-2003: 13-team Lottery
In October of 1995, the Board of Governors increased the number of teams participating in the Lottery from 11 to 13 to account for the addition of expansion teams Toronto and Vancouver. Starting in 1996, the team with the worst record in the Lottery continued to have a 25% chance (250 combinations) of winning the first pick, teams two (20%; 200 combinations) through six (6.4%; 64 combinations) have slightly fewer chances, team seven (4.4%; 44 combinations) has the same number of chances and teams eight (2.9%; 29 combinations) through 12 (0.6%; six combinations) have slightly more chances. The number of chances for team 13 (0.5%; five combinations) did not change. Tied teams split the number of chances and a blind draw determines which team receives an extra chance if the combined number of chances can not be split evenly.


I keep reading and hearing people compare the NBA lottery to drafts in other sports, but their is a significant difference between Prof. basketball and the other major professional sports. That difference is that in the NBA it can take just one great player to turn a teams' fortunes around. In baseball, hockey, or football one player is rarely going to suddenly make a bad team good, but in basketball a superstar seems more likely to do that. Actually it might be interesting for someone to conduct a study on this (for fun, of course...although I would not be shocked to hear prof. franchises to have already done such work) but the observational, conventional wisdom suggests this to be true, I believe.

Jerry West, who also read says he hates the lottery, may share the sentiment amongst many who have (or are of fans of teams with) the worst records in the NBA on a given year, or think about how they might feel as a team with one of the worst records and not get the pick they want or feel they "deserve," but I have a hard time seeing any major changes that could improve the current system to make it any more "fair" and avoid consequences of making the draft more like the other major sports. I mean, even with a lottery system teams like Boston, Milwaukee and Minnesota (as documented in the Beck article and elsewhere) are still willing to tank games late in the season for a shot at guys like Oden or Durant. Boston even tried it in the Duncan sweepstakes as well, and lost out, as have other teams in the past.

I believe it is far more likely that if there was no lottery we'd see even more teams who would tank their seasons earlier than March or April if they were far out of playoff contention. Perhaps even teams who were in contention for the last playoff spot or so (like the Knicks this past year), but had an injury to a top player might be willing to tank the rest of the season in a year where there is a supposedly "deep" draft. Maybe that's what fans want, and sometimes I think I'd be for it, but wasn't the lottery instilled as a means of keeping fair play as long as possible during a season? Basically, you could have a few teams that the conventional wisdom says are far better than everyone else...and then one year a guy like Oden is available. What would prevent teams who come into a year not expecting to win starting to tank in December after a bad losing streak? The Bulls started the season 0-9 two years ago, no? The Warriors this year were out of playoff contention until they traded for Harrington-Jackson. Miami might have decided to tank when Wade got injured and sit him the rest of the season, perhaps trade Shaq, and then hope to get Oden or Durant. Unless fans want nearly half the league trying to lose games intentionally at some point in the season, which is what may happen.

I think keeping the system essentially the way it is makes the most sense.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 24, 2007, 01:12:10 PM
When david stern gets finished with this league thier wont be any physical play left in the league...offensive fouls will rule the day...teams wont be able to improve based on salary cap woes...the west coast will maintain the dominance over the East simply because the East cant improve without taking on a tremendous amount of luxury tax...

I say soon there will be a non physical fast paced International league that includes all the Olympic countries... 

based on all the new hoops stadiums going up all over the planet


And the USA wont be dominant..

we owe it all to Stern the genious.

LOL

Won't be dominant?

Likely won't be in - and if we are, it will be C level US talent


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 24, 2007, 01:22:37 PM
I say just let patrick ewing attend the nba college draft...put the fix in so that NYC wins the #1 pick

patrick says wow...we havent been so lucky since the knicks selected me.

the league should look to improve the knicks, celtic, lakers, 76ers, or fans will soon tune out..

ask anyone..they are not interested in the rest of the playoffs...

utah vs the spurs?

what a boring mess...

we need knicks vs boston...or lakers vs nyc, or chicago vs 76ers...

lets trade garnett, artest, j oniel, all to the East Coast to even a few things out..

If they come the knicks better get one or two of them 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2007, 03:42:37 PM
kam

what the heck are you talking about/

Re: Knicks
« Reply #608 on: Today at 11:09:38 AM »

Chinamen?


http://www.amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/ (http://www.amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/)

Tremendous script.  All-Star cast: Jeff Bridges, John Goodman, Steve Buscemi, Julianne Moore, Tara Reid, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and FLEA from the Red Hot chili Peppers.

Ve vant ze money, Lebowski.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 24, 2007, 06:17:16 PM
I just saw a Spanish playoff game, R. Madrid vs Pamesa Valencia. Madrid has a terrific player from the DC area who can do anything we want of a true 2. Makes 3s at 50%, drives and gives plenty of assists. He can also defend and he's itching to be called up to the NBA. His name is Louis Bullock. Does anybody know why no NBA team seems to be interested?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 24, 2007, 08:35:55 PM
He's probably 6'2"


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2007, 01:43:46 AM
6'1" actually

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/draft/draftboard/players/54.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/draft/draftboard/players/54.html)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 25, 2007, 10:27:52 AM
Short, and if he's from the '99 draft class, then he's approaching 30.
He might be peaking now, but if you figure he'd need 2 or so years to adjust to the NBA ...

I hope Seattle stays put because of their history, but realistically the PNW could lose one of those teams without much problem.   30 teams is alot, if not too many, and there are viable alternatives: OK City, KCity, Vegas might all support a team quite well.

Kam, the Coens have a new pic coming out soon.  No Country for Old Men, based on the Cormac McCarthy novel.  Just got great reviews when screened in Cannes last week.  I still favor Raising Arizona over Lebowski for their comedies (with O Brother a close third).



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 25, 2007, 12:26:40 PM

Kam, the Coens have a new pic coming out soon.  No Country for Old Men, based on the Cormac McCarthy novel.  Just got great reviews when screened in Cannes last week.  I still favor Raising Arizona over Lebowski for their comedies (with O Brother a close third).


I haven't watched O Brother or Rasing Arizona as many times as i've watched TBL. But on your rec i'll take another look.


Title: Vincent Carter
Post by: Kam on May 25, 2007, 12:29:40 PM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252007/sports/knicks/knicks_in_vin_now_mindset_knicks_marc_berman.htm (http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252007/sports/knicks/knicks_in_vin_now_mindset_knicks_marc_berman.htm)
Quote
The Knicks plan to revisit trade discussions they held with the Nets before the Feb. 23 deadline.

"They will do their due diligence with him," the source said of Carter.

The Knicks would have to work out a sign-and-trade agreement with the Nets. The Knicks, however, are wary of Carter's reported interest in getting a 3-year, $60 million deal - which they consider a long-term investment on a 30-year-old on the downhill portion of his career.

Thomas has stated the Knicks are not looking to use their $5 million mid-level exception on a free agent and aren't interested in adding to the payroll and luxury-tax bill.

Before the trade deadline, the Knicks offered the Nets a package of Channing Frye, Malik Rose and Jerome James (the latter two of which own bad contracts for their production) for Carter. The Nets declined, though they like Frye. It is believed they also asked about rookie Renaldo Balkman, who would look great on the fastbreak with Jason Kidd.

The Knicks also have young center Randolph Morris to peddle. But the Knicks are reluctant to give up two young core guys in a sign-and-trade for a 30-year-old. As a Raptor, Carter requested a trade to the Knicks in the summer of 2004.

The Knicks' best hope is for under-the-cap Orlando or Charlotte to try signing Carter outright, leaving the Nets scrambling to do a sign-and-trade. If he can't sign Carter, Nets chief Rod Thorn does not want to lose him for nothing.

The Knicks also want to shop point guard Steve Francis, who wants a buyout. But Thomas is reluctant to buy him out because he still thinks Francis can play. Plus, after the spate of injuries that ruined the season in March, and because Stephon Marbury and Quentin Richardson have chronic ailments, Thomas cherishes depth.

If the Nets should trade Kidd, Francis is someone they would have to look at as a temporary stopgap.   :o

Thomas has told confidants he believes the Knicks are one "star" from contending for a championship, feeling all other pieces are in place. That is why they plan to explore trades for a top big man to play alongside Eddy Curry: Pau Gasol, who asked for a trade in January; disgruntled Jermaine O'Neal, who wants to be traded to the Knicks; or Kevin Garnett, who could opt out in 2008.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 25, 2007, 12:44:40 PM
http://www.amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/ (http://www.amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0118715/)

Tremendous script. 
Which can be read here (http://www.angelfire.com/movies/moviefreak/lebowski.html)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on May 25, 2007, 12:46:37 PM
Personally I'd prefer that the lottery apply, in weighted form, to all 14 non-playoff spots, not just the first three.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 25, 2007, 03:20:44 PM
Bullock isn't approaching 30 he actually just turned 31, and with his size it will be a hard sell for the NBA, with 2 guards who are sometimes 6' 8".

I love the Cohen Bros. but would still rate the B.L. over Raising Arizona as their best comedy, if not one of the best ever as a re-watchable comedy which I always take into consideration for greatness. My favorite of all, however, is 'Miller's Crossing' which I have heard is good news for those (like me) who are very much looking forward to 'No Country For Old Men' as I know some have written that it should please fans of MC. I'd put 'Fargo' in there as my top 3 Cohen Bros. films. I have to go see 'Paris Je T'aime' as well (of which they wrote and directed one segment), but it's a bit odd to see at this point in my life, so I'm a bit torn even though I want to see it in the theater.

As for our Knicks...In case you didn't read this New-yo-centric silliness:

Quote
May 25, 2007
Sports of The Times
Poor Decisions? Knicks Deserve a Mulligan
By WILLIAM C. RHODEN

As the N.B.A. playoffs grind forth, Madison Square Garden is dark once again.

The Knicks recently completed their sixth consecutive losing season, and their fourth since Isiah Thomas became team president.

With Memorial Day approaching, N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern has to devise a solution to the league’s New York conundrum.

How long do you allow this franchise to perform poorly? How long do you allow a flagship franchise to be at or near the bottom?

The Knicks are one of the N.B.A.’s pillar franchises. They have the largest payroll but also probably the bleakest outlook for winning a championship any time soon.

Some optimists predict that by the 2009-10 season the Knicks will be under the salary cap in a substantial way and therefore in position to acquire the star player who will lead them to a long-awaited title. But that’s two more seasons — 164 games, 18 more months — of losing and just missing. Two seasons, at least, before they can come out from under a suffocating salary-cap manhole.

What is a commissioner to do?

I suggest that the league wipe the slate clean.

The N.B.A. should act like the World Bank and treat the Knicks like a developing nation. The league needs success in New York and there is only one way to achieve that: The N.B.A. has to forgive the Knicks’ debt.

Last season, the Knicks had a payroll of more than $120 million, the largest by far in the N.B.A. The Knicks are perennially so far over the league’s salary cap that it will be a long time before they can obtain the sort of transcendent player who can lead them to a championship.



The salary cap was installed nearly two decades ago as a way to prevent teams in larger markets from outspending smaller-market teams and buying up the best players. But the cap hasn’t stopped the Knicks from ill-advised spending, from habitually becoming entangled with bad contracts, flawed players and star-crossed coaches.

There is a precedent for this sort of relief. In the summer of 2005, Stern persuaded the owners to include an amnesty clause in the collective-bargaining agreement: a one-time opportunity for teams to waive one player and avoid having him count against the team’s luxury-tax calculation. The salary, however, was still counted against the salary cap.

“The owners fought me on that,” Stern said yesterday.

But the commissioner persuaded the owners to grant amnesty for the good of the league.

So why not suggest this more invasive, one-time amnesty to the owners, by erasing the Knicks’ salary-cap and luxury-tax excesses? For the good of the N.B.A.

Allow the Knicks to dump four contracts (say, Steve Francis, Jerome James, Jared Jeffries and Malik Rose) and move under the salary cap.

The Knicks are an important team for the N.B.A. Talk all you want — as Stern did yesterday — about all the franchises being the same, about all being equal, about no franchise being more important than another.

But New York, Chicago, Boston and Los Angeles are the preferred cities to go deep into the playoffs, to reach the finals — to maximize television revenue.

In a peculiar way, however, it’s good business for the N.B.A. to have a spendthrift team like the Knicks exceed the cap and pay the luxury tax. The tax is distributed to teams that are under the cap, providing them with additional income. These are the teams that are beating the Knicks and spending less money in the process.

Stern wasn’t hearing it. Two years ago, he said, he believed amnesty “was an appropriate time to reset a little bit, with emphasis on a little bit.”

A similar move now, he said, “would be too large a gesture, and that would be too disruptive in the context of a new collective-bargaining agreement.”



Stern suggested that his misgivings with my World Bank-Developing Nations analogy notwithstanding, this was an issue of rewarding competence.

Why should franchises that have budgeted and exercised fiscal restraint have to bail out a New York franchise that has made stupendous blunders over the years in pursuit not so much of a championship, but of packed arenas and big-name players.

“What do you say to teams that are under the cap, have managed under the cap and are doing very well competitively?” Stern said.

I’d say patience may be a virtue in San Antonio and Salt Lake City, but it’s not a virtue in New York.

Here is what else I’d tell those teams: For years you guys sent your washed-up, overpaid players to the Knicks. The Knicks became the destination of choice for a parade of bad contracts — Penny Hardaway, Jalen Rose, Antonio Davis, Francis. New York helped out the N.B.A. Now it’s time the league gives a little something back.

Forgive the Knickerbockers’ debt, commissioner. Give a little power to the people.

E-mail: [email protected]

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2007, 04:12:26 PM
D League MVP and free agent Dijon thompson is a bit taller than 6'2". He's 6'8" and shot 52% from the floor and a hair under 40% FROM THREE. Go get him Zeke. Me likey the free chips

http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/dijon_thompson/index.html (http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/dijon_thompson/index.html)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 25, 2007, 04:46:08 PM
Bullock isn't approaching 30 he actually just turned 31, and with his size it will be a hard sell for the NBA, with 2 guards who are sometimes 6' 8".

OK, ok, he's old and small. But a damn good player, and cheap. I think we could use him just for the 3s when teams are triple teaming EC. BTW, he does not play like an old guy, awful fast


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 25, 2007, 05:52:16 PM
If you say so Carlos. He's exactly the same size and 2 years younger than Derek Fisher for whatever its worth.


Two years ago I liked and made some noise for Boris Diaw before the Suns got him. I figured we could sign him for below the MLE at the time. It turns out that that would have been a very good price and after last year he got extended at 9mil per. over the last two years he's averaged 11 pts 5.5 rebs and 5 assists shooting over .525. is this worth 9 mil per in this market?

I'd trade Jefferies and Frye for him or swap him for Jamal straight up. Maybe Pheonix gives us a pick back as well... He actually does what Jefferies was supposed to do interms of intangibles and "glue". Not an SF, a PF can split time and pair up with D Lee.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 25, 2007, 07:44:12 PM
Bullock scores 21 ppg. I couldn't find stats for assists and bounds, but I would say about 5 and 3. Of course the Spanish ball is not the NBA, but it's not bad and they play less minutes.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 26, 2007, 05:04:40 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070523&sportCat=nba (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070523&sportCat=nba)

I laughed hard twice.  Am i evil?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 26, 2007, 10:50:31 AM
Do you guys see any way Rod Thorn would be compelled to trade Vince to NYC? Short of a package that included both Lee and Balkman?

I just don't think Francis & Frye will get it done (even if Morris or Nate is thrown in). They are better off letting him walk to Charlotte.

Granted, as much as I can't stand Wince Harder (just like everyone else), there's no denying his talent. This team would be a lock for the playoffs if that deal got done. But how much farther?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 26, 2007, 03:40:41 PM
 ::)

The Vince Carter story is not real.  And hardly worth squandering our resources over. 

No sale.  Lock for he playoffs? 

I don't think so.   


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 26, 2007, 03:47:17 PM
I feel better about trading for 32 year old Ray Allen and Seattles 31 and 35th pick for (Craw, N8, James, #23) signed at 16mil, 17.3mil, and 18.7mil

Prefer that over the package (Balkman, Lee + ???) we'd have to give NJ for 30.5 year old Vince Carter at 60mil for the next three.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 26, 2007, 09:08:24 PM
If the Knicks ever make the playoffs will everyone at MSG be given t-shirts as G-State and Utah do? Or are we too cool for that?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on May 27, 2007, 11:07:11 AM
Just curious as to how the posters here feel about Nick Fazekas. The guy put up terrific numbers. Is he non-athletic because he is a caucasion American? If he was Bosnian would he be a lottery pick? 

Full Name: Nick Fazekas
Birth Place: Arvada, CO
Height: 6-11
Weight: 240 lbs. Position: Forward
Class: Senior 

PPG 20.4 | APG 1.8 | RPG 11.1
Profile GameLog


Season Averages
SEASON MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2003-2004 26.9 12.6 7.6 .5 .9 .50 .5 1.3 2.1 .528 .771 .358 1.40
2004-2005 31.5 20.7 9.4 .9 2.2 .43 .6 1.6 1.8 .502 .789 .327 1.49
2005-2006 31.8 21.8 10.4 2.1 1.8 1.15 1.1 1.5 1.8 .529 .846 .290 1.42
2006-2007 30.3 20.4 11.1 1.8 2.0 .88 .8 1.5 2.3 .568 .848 .431 1.49


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 27, 2007, 06:42:14 PM
Is there truth to the rumors that JVG wants to replace Popovich? According to unnamed sources JVG explained that the Spurs would have never lost game 3 under his leadership. "Pops just didn't know to ask for more effort from his players. Besides, he used too many of them. A rotation of 5 is more than enough. And he disrespected Tim by pulling him when they were only 18 down and still had 4 minutes to go"


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2007, 10:05:06 PM
Carlos - That's a joke, right? That doesn't  sound like JVG. What's your source?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 27, 2007, 10:14:43 PM
Kobe says if Jerry West doesn't come to La La Land, he wants out?

I'll play Nagel: We offer Crawford, Francis, Frye, Lee, Nate and the #23 for Kobe, Radmanovic and Vujacic. Sign Jason Kapono with our full MLE, then Bo Outlaw and Roger Mason as practice players.

Marbury / Collins / Mason
Kobe / Kapono / Vujacic
Q / Renaldo / Outlaw
JJ Slim / Radmanovic / Malik
Curry / Snacks / Randolph

Save your breath Chip Stern, I'm only exercising my right to fantasize. I know Chicago and Boston can offer more.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 28, 2007, 01:58:18 AM
 ???

Thanks for saving my breath, Biz...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kozaitis on May 28, 2007, 10:28:51 AM
hey, folks. it's been years. hope all is well. i figure i'd just jump in and ask

people do not really want Vince Carter, do they? he CANNOT finish anymore. his whole game was his explosiveness with his legs, and his springs are shot. i could envision Zeke, being the stubborn bastard that he is, swinging a deal to show people how smart he is, but that contract is too big for Dolan's taste is my guess. [aside: is Isiah Thomas the NBA's Bobby Valentine?]



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 28, 2007, 06:26:44 PM
Carlos - That's a joke, right? That doesn't  sound like JVG. What's your source?

Biz, my source wants to remain anonymous. But it adds that Tim is not really sure he was disrespected by Pops. Apparently he said "Good try Jeff, but I'm not plotting to get Pops fired on your behalf". Another idea JVG has been ruminating to improve the Spurs involves reactivating Charlie Ward. "Tony Parker is not veteran enough to be playing major minutes. Nobody should start before his fifth year", he said.


Title: Bo Diddley's Horror
Post by: chipstern on May 28, 2007, 07:23:53 PM
 :o

A recent NBA.com interview with Bill Bradley revealed that his favorite current Knick is Jamal Crawford. Hard to believe that a player who was known for his old-school fundamental approach to the game would appreciate a freewheeling, improvisationalist such as Crawford. But Bradley says he sees control within the chaos.  

"I like the way he moves on the court," Bradley told NBA.com. "He is a shooter – I always like shooters. But he also seems to know how to move. He can move a little bit without the ball."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2007, 12:18:43 AM
Yes to Vince minus Stephon















But that aint happenin


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 29, 2007, 04:47:18 AM
Is there truth to the rumors that JVG wants to replace Popovich?

Well it's clear from these playoffs that Pops needs to go. That "hardass" routine is definitely wearing thin.  SA will see the light and go the Isiah route sooner-or-later. I'd be surprised if the Spurs haven't already been talking to him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 29, 2007, 08:41:48 AM
Chip - that's excellent. I would have assumed Dollar Bill would have gone for the LJ/Q type of player.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 29, 2007, 09:54:09 AM
Im a basketball fanatic and I love a good ball game-- I can even watch an overseas game or two but these conference finals are the most boring games I've tried to watch in along time. Its crazy because its good teams playing good ball but for some reason SPurs and Jazz or Cavs and Pistons don't get me excited. Maybe its just me and Im real curious as to how the ratings are for these finals We need the Knicks in the big dance not because Im a fan but because we need teams people wanna see.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 29, 2007, 10:49:21 AM
Carlos - That's a joke, right? That doesn't  sound like JVG. What's your source?

Biz, my source wants to remain anonymous. But it adds that Tim is not really sure he was disrespected by Pops. Apparently he said "Good try Jeff, but I'm not plotting to get Pops fired on your behalf". Another idea JVG has been ruminating to improve the Spurs involves reactivating Charlie Ward. "Tony Parker is not veteran enough to be playing major minutes. Nobody should start before his fifth year", he said.

hahaha


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 29, 2007, 11:17:57 AM
May 29, 2007 -- One year ago, Isiah Thomas arrived at Orlando’s pre-draft camp not talking to Larry Brown after the Knicks missed the playoffs with a final record far below .500. The Knicks were a rebuilding team whose lottery pick belonged to the Bulls.

Tonight, Thomas arrives in Orlando for the pre-draft camp still not talking to Brown after the Knicks missed the playoffs with a record 16 games below .500. They are a rebuilding team whose lottery pick (No. 9) belongs to the Bulls.

The difference is Thomas earned a new, long-term contract to continue as president/coach because owner James Dolan bought into this young corps headed by cornerstone center Eddy Curry.

In one year, the Knicks went from Team Titanic to Team Rhetoric. The results were still lousy, but the words sounded better, with Thomas’ Pollyanna replacing Brown’s gloom and doom.

Thomas and a brigade of a dozen Knicks scouts, coaches and personnel men descend this week on Milkhouse Gym on the Disney World grounds, where Thomas fell in love with an unknown, Renaldo Balkman, last May.

About 60 draft prospects, mostly late first-rounders and second-rounders, will participate in drills tonight and play games the next few days. The likes of Greg Oden, Kevin Durant and other top-10 phenoms will undergo physicals and endure interviews.

With all the league’s GMs in town, Orlando also becomes a fertile ground to lay groundwork for draft-night trades and July dealings.

The Knicks have the 23rd pick (the Bulls’ selection), but are not married to it. They have two particular needs - acquiring a rugged, defensive-oriented power forward to play alongside Curry and a sweet-shooting perimeter threat to capitalize on the low-post double-and-triple-teams the Knicks’ center receives.

At No. 23, the Knicks could have a shot at the draft’s best long-range shooter, Rice guard Morris Almond. Boston College shotblocker Sean Williams, kicked off the team for alleged marijuana use, will be in Orlando, as will Pittsburgh center Aaron Gray. Arizona scoring small forward Marcus Williams is another candidate.

With five first-rounders on the roster from the past two drafts, plus Randolph Morris, Thomas can afford to trade the pick. Thomas, who has not made a trade since the Trevor Ariza-for-Steve Francis disaster 15 months ago, plans to investigate multiple scenarios - making offers for big men Jermaine O’Neal, Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett, all three of whom are under contract but could be moved in the next six weeks.
Channing Frye, Francis, Malik Rose and Jerome James will be shopped religiously.

On the free-agent swingman chart, Thomas will do his due diligence on Vince Carter, Rashard Lewis and Charlotte’s Gerald Wallace, whom Thomas attempted to acquire three years ago before the expansion draft. But the depressing part of this upcoming summer is Thomas may not have the pawns to acquire anybody of elite status.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 29, 2007, 11:22:16 AM
The Knicks own one pick in next month's draft, and there's been greater speculation about what they're going to do with that pick rather than whom they're planning to select with it.

The NBA's predraft camp opens here tonight, and Isiah Thomas and his scouts will be present during the next few days to view some prospects. The Knicks' only pick is No. 23 overall, the result of the swap of their ninth overall pick with the Bulls as part of the Eddy Curry trade.

 Thomas, who will be available to the media this week for the first time since the Knicks' 33-49 season ended in April, rarely reveals his draft plans. At the end of the season, he said he would go for the best player available.

Some might take that to mean trading the pick in a package for a veteran player -- Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Rashard Lewis, etc. -- who could offer immediate help. But if Thomas can't make that type of deal (and several persons with knowledge of the situation have said he isn't overly optimistic that he can), you can bet he'll look to employ his trademark out-of-the-box thinking when making another late first-round pick.

Three players he appears to have on the radar include 6-7 swingman Derrick Byars of Vanderbilt and 6-10 power forwards Josh McRoberts of Duke and Sean Williams of Boston College. According to a person with knowledge of the situation, each is on a list of players who have been invited to attend private workouts at the MSG Training Center next month.
Byars might be the most intriguing. He was the SEC player of the year and put in a lot of work before his senior season to go from a relative unknown to a projected first-round draft pick.

McRoberts, a versatile and tough big man, would be a prospect the Knicks could try to develop to complement Curry in the frontcourt. Williams has limited basketball IQ and a history of off-the-court troubles, along with Renaldo Balkman-like athleticism and a reputation as a world-class shot-blocker, which the Knicks lack.

Expect Thomas to make the unusual pick, as he did last year when he took Balkman, projected to be a second-rounder, with the 20th overall selection. Balkman played well in the second half of the season, proving himself to be a useful NBA player and a quality energy guy off the bench. Thomas was spared any future criticism for taking Balkman and passing over Marcus Williams (who then was taken by the Nets) because of how well Mardy Collins, the Knicks' 29th overall pick last year, played down the stretch.

From the potential availability of all-star talent such as O'Neal, Gasol, Lewis or even Kevin Garnett to deciding the future of Steve Francis, this will be a busy offseason for the Knicks.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on May 29, 2007, 11:24:25 AM
And last but not least...

A trial date of Sept. 10, in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, has been set for former Knicks marketing chief Anucha Browne-Sanders' sexual-harassment suit versus Knicks' coach/president Isiah Thomas.

Legal sources predict the trial to last two weeks, allowing Thomas to be ready for Knicks' training camp Oct. 1 in Charleston, S.C. Sources deny settlement talks took place recently. "There's going to be a trial," one legal source said. Browne-Sanders declined comment. The distraction of the trial could impact Thomas' ability to properly prepare for the NBA Draft, although that will take place in June, well before his trial begins.


Title: Fantasy Land
Post by: chipstern on May 29, 2007, 11:43:14 AM
 ;)

Okay Kiid fantasizes about Vince without Steph.

Biz, concocts elaborate multi-player scenarios, as does Kam, who, yes...is evil.  

Not.  

My fantasy?  

Of all the players out there, the one I most covet is not Jermain or Kobe or Kevin...not sure we have the pieces or that the complete gutting of our franchise would be worth it.  Rashard Lewis, my #1 fantasy, will command a max, and again, seems unrealistic.  

NEWSDAY's conjecture is as follows:  

6-7 swingman Derrick Byars of Vanderbilt and the 6-10 power forwards Josh McRoberts of Duke and Sean Williams of Boston College appear to be on Isiah's list. Each will be invited to attend private workouts at the MSG Training Center next month.

Byars was the SEC player of the year and emerged from anonymity to develop into a projected first-round pick.

McRoberts is a versatile and tough big man who could grow next to Curry in the frontcourt.

Williams is criticized for limited basketball IQ and off-the-court problems but has Renaldo Balkman-like athletic gifts as well as a talent for shot-blocking
.

One can also assume that the Italian, Almond and Wiillams will be on the radar.  

On my radar?  

GERALD WALLACE   of the Bobcats.  

He has improved every year (check out his FT%, upto nearly 70%), from a pure defensive specialist, to a geuine offensive threat.  He still plays tough D, but last year averagesd around 18 points a game, with 7.2 rebounds. 2 steals, 1 block, and 2.6 assists.  He is tough, high energy. committed, healthy--and will only be 25 in July.  

Says here that Bobcats keep him, and why not.  But might they be tempted?  Channing Frye might be a good fit here, and I am on record as wanting to keep him, but if Channing were to be traded, this is the type of player we need to get back.  Bobcats have Okafor and Scott May, but both have had injury issues.  having a player who could give them serious minutes at PF-C would be a plus.  Adam Morrison could fill in those lost minutes at SF, although, hell, pretty big drop in defense and other intangibles.  Still, Charlotte has two first rounders, so...

Anyway, my fantasy, and feel free to shoot it down, as I would yours...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 29, 2007, 11:59:47 AM
Do people here think the Knicks are getting any of the top guns? Perhaps indulgently, I've tried to qualify and quantify the likelihood Zeke makes a deal

KG - no chance Knicks put forth the best offer. Also, with McHale in charge, have to assume the Wolves will hold on to him while his value dips even further (remember, they could have had at least Deng, Chandler and Tyrus last year). 0.001% chance a deal gets done.

JO - small chance Knicks put forth the best offer (i.e. one that includes Lee and takes back Tinsley's knees and contract). Realistically, Knicks would have to acquire JO at a premium considering they are in-conference, there will be numerous other suitors, and that Larry Bird will be disinclined to trade JO to the coach O'Neal is said to prefer to Bird's choices. 5% chance

Pau - does he even fit? Why is anyone talking about him? The Grizzlies are asking for the moon. 0% chance

Wince Harder - Putting aside questions of his notorious glass jaw, the fact that he renders Crawford redundant, and the fact the Wince is neither a good fit defensively or offensively with Eddy Curry, why the hell would Rod Thorn trade a popular* player in advance of the Nets move? The only reason I see this being done is if Thorn thinks Wince hurts a teams chances at winning (possible) and Orlando is throwing big money to steal Wince (possible) and that Thorn thinks Francis & Frye is a better offer than, say, the Clippers can provide (less possible). 15% chance  

Ron Ron - I think Miami and the Lakers will be the most ardent suitors, although the Clippers are an outside possibility in some sort of rehash of the Maggette deal (though you have to think Maggette has won the argument against Dunleavy). Miami has little to offer other than J-Thrill's expiring contract and a pick that is better than ours. This would leave them without a point guard. I can't see them moving Dorell Wright. The Lakers have Kwame and the #19 pick, but are in the same division. Knicks would have to offer Frye and one of Malik/JJ Slim/Snacks (probably Rose). If Isiah thinks he can tame RonRon - let's say 50% chance he's here. If Zeke's got doubts, 0%.

Nene/K-mart - Not sure if we can put together a deal that would tempt the Nuggets. They have a gap at the 2 guard, but need someone more defensive-minded than Crawford. Also, they will look to dump salary. Won't be surprised to see Nene in Atlanta. I think we will live to regret not trading Francis for K-Mart. 1% for Nene, 10% for K-Mart (would have to be for Francis, who has the shorter contract)

Ray Ray - no chance they move Allen now that they got Durant. 0% chance

Rashard Lewis - Have to think a team like Charlotte will step up with a better offer (sign-and-trade that includes a future 1st round pick and no contracts going back, for example). Tough to concede, but maximum 5% chance

Zach Randolph - Z-Bo and Curry are a terrible mix. 0% chance

I think that does it for big names. Aside for RonRon, I'm guessing there is little Isiah can do other than tweak. Thoughts?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 29, 2007, 12:04:46 PM
Dang, forgot about Wallace. Thanks Chip.

The only way we get Wallace is if Orlando or Milwaukee offers more than the mid-level, and Charlotte is compelled to look into a sign-and-trade. Our offer would probably look like Frye & Nate & Malik (or Jeffries, whom I believe Jordan drafted). But that's an unlikely scenario. Charlotte probably will have the luxury of not being caught in a bidding war. We will offer 5 years and $30 million, but that will be at least $15 million short.

But I agree, I would love to have Wallace on this team.

5 % chance.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 29, 2007, 12:08:27 PM
Keep Steph...screw Vince. I wanna see Marbury with a more developed Curry next year, and perhaps a more consistent shooter or another big offensive option down low who can shoot. Too bad we're stuck with Francis. I'd go for Ray Allen, if we can, or Rashard Lewis. Put one of those with Marbury, Lee and Curry, and we'd have a nice squad for a couple of years with Lee and Curry as the future with Balkman (hopefully).

I think Marbury gets a bum rap for a lot of b.s. outdated reasons.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2007, 12:29:04 PM
Biz...

The Sonics might want to go withthe full-on youth movement.  Losing Rashard (very likely) and bringing in a 19 yr old Rookie probably doesn't sit well with 32 yr old Allen either.

The sonics, if staying in Seattle will want local favorites (N8, Craw, James) to help pack the seats and bring down the overall age of the team.

Thats my justification why they'd at least consider a trade.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 29, 2007, 12:42:57 PM
You guys are thinking to big getting all these big names are really just to sell tickets BUT in NY if you win you don't need big names just hustle players. Heres my trade for the day we trade Jeffries and Frye for J R Smith and Reggie Evans why do they do it they some bigs who can fill in while Camby and Kmart heals they're ailing bodies during the season--Why we do it we get an up and coming SG with hops and reckless abandon and a PF who can rebound and play defense next to Curry.  Then we Trade Jamal Crawford and Pick to sacto for Ron Ron.

Starting lineup

PG Steph
SG JR Smith
SF  Balkman
PF  Evans
C   Curry

Second unit

PG  Mardy
SG  N8
SF  Q
PF  Lee
C   Randolph

Thats a lot of energy coming off the bench to keep the other team running then we still got snacks and Francis for emergency purposes


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 29, 2007, 12:45:04 PM
I mean starting lineup

PG   Steph
SG  J R Smith
SF   ROn ROn
PF   Evans
C    Curry

second unit

PG  Mardy
SG  Q
SF  Balkman
PF  Lee
C   Randolph


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2007, 12:57:50 PM
Keep Steph...screw Vince. I wanna see Marbury with a more developed Curry next year, and perhaps a more consistent shooter or another big offensive option down low who can shoot. Too bad we're stuck with Francis. I'd go for Ray Allen, if we can, or Rashard Lewis. Put one of those with Marbury, Lee and Curry, and we'd have a nice squad for a couple of years with Lee and Curry as the future with Balkman (hopefully).

I think Marbury gets a bum rap for a lot of b.s. outdated reasons.

So...

if we have Steph and get that shooter, who is the go to guy in a close game late?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2007, 12:59:43 PM
Re:  "bum rap":

It's not about attaching blame.  It's about envisioning successs - and eventually a title.

Steph may have upped his value a bit second half of last season.  Good time to pack him up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 29, 2007, 01:49:07 PM
jaqd - Apparently several Nuggets players asked Karl to remove JR Smith from the lineup in the playoffs. Plus Scott couldn't stand him. I think you have to be careful bringing in players that other players and coaches cannot stand. This is not Stephen Jackson - dudes loved playing with S-Jax, it's law with which Jackson had issues.

But I like your general idea of bringing in hustle players - like Reggie Evans. I think he is superfluous on the Nuggets right now. Same with Earl Watson in Seattle. The only thing is we have to be careful how many players we have on this team who cannot create their own shot, as we cannot play too many of those guys at the same time (clearly Balkman and JJ Slim already fit this bill, and Lee and Q get points but cannot generally create their own shots).

--------

Prez Ike - on a scale of 1 - 10, your avatar gets a 15. Maybe an 18.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 29, 2007, 03:19:12 PM
Que the rabid dog, foaming at the mouth...

Mr. Vick:  Can he fight?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 29, 2007, 03:24:53 PM
hey, folks. it's been years. hope all is well. i figure i'd just jump in and ask

people do not really want Vince Carter, do they? he CANNOT finish anymore. his whole game was his explosiveness with his legs, and his springs are shot. i could envision Zeke, being the stubborn bastard that he is, swinging a deal to show people how smart he is, but that contract is too big for Dolan's taste is my guess. [aside: is Isiah Thomas the NBA's Bobby Valentine?]



what happened to newrintrah?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 29, 2007, 03:53:07 PM
What does it mean to be the NBA's Bobby Valentine?

He's a beisbol manager, right?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 29, 2007, 04:03:11 PM
A trial date of Sept. 10, in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, has been set for former Knicks marketing chief Anucha Browne-Sanders' sexual-harassment suit versus Knicks' coach/president Isiah Thomas.

Can't wait. The trial should provide us with lots of top-notch front page fodder....Check out the MSG defense in the OTHER sex harrassment suit they are fending off:

Rangers cheerleader sex-crazed, say attorneys
BY THOMAS ZAMBITO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Wednesday, April 18th 2007, 4:34 PM

An Ex-Rangers cheerleader who is suing Madison Square Garden for sexual harassment was cast yesterday as a
mentally ill pervert
by Garden attorneys who claimed her sex-obsessed behavior upset fellow skaters.
Courtney Prince's bipolar disorder created a sexually charged atmosphere that left some members of the Rangers City Skaters uncertain about their looks, and had others ready to quit, the Garden claimed in papers filed in Manhattan Federal Court.
In the sweeping counterattack, Garden attorney Melissa Rodriguez said Prince's behavior "is not surprising as she suffered from
bipolar disorder, a classic symptom of which is hypersexuality."

If Zeek the Freek tries that S* w/ Nuchie, he's gonna get pummeled. She's bigger than he is.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2007, 05:35:37 PM
Yes to Vince minus Stephon
But that aint happenin

kiid, can we please speak proper English, I mean, this aint like you

LOL


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2007, 05:41:39 PM
Is there truth to the rumors that JVG wants to replace Popovich?

Well it's clear from these playoffs that Pops needs to go. That "hardass" routine is definitely wearing thin.  SA will see the light and go the Isiah route sooner-or-later. I'd be surprised if the Spurs haven't already been talking to him.

Good try lester, but it aint working. You just stick with Anucha, better chance that way. On another twist of the JVG post-season explorations, the same unnamed sources confirm he was offered the national coaching job for the basketball Sudan team. JVG promptly rejected the position explaining "I'm not going to move to South America at this point"


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2007, 05:44:41 PM
Carlos - That's a joke, right? That doesn't  sound like JVG. What's your source?

Biz, my source wants to remain anonymous. But it adds that Tim is not really sure he was disrespected by Pops. Apparently he said "Good try Jeff, but I'm not plotting to get Pops fired on your behalf". Another idea JVG has been ruminating to improve the Spurs involves reactivating Charlie Ward. "Tony Parker is not veteran enough to be playing major minutes. Nobody should start before his fifth year", he said.

hahaha

Thanks Prez, glad you liked it


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on May 29, 2007, 05:48:08 PM
Keep Steph...screw Vince. I wanna see Marbury with a more developed Curry next year, and perhaps a more consistent shooter or another big offensive option down low who can shoot. Too bad we're stuck with Francis. I'd go for Ray Allen, if we can, or Rashard Lewis. Put one of those with Marbury, Lee and Curry, and we'd have a nice squad for a couple of years with Lee and Curry as the future with Balkman (hopefully).

I think Marbury gets a bum rap for a lot of b.s. outdated reasons.

YOU GO PREZ !!!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on May 29, 2007, 05:49:37 PM
Can't wait. The trial should provide us with lots of top-notch front page fodder....

For instance,

When asked about the charges of inappropriate conduct Thomas retorted, “Even if they’re true…it’s not like the broad was earning coolie wages.  Besides…I don’t drink and I don’t chew and I don’t go with girls who do.  Put that in your hair and rub it!”





OK, So I made it up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 29, 2007, 06:14:58 PM
Keep Steph...screw Vince. I wanna see Marbury with a more developed Curry next year, and perhaps a more consistent shooter or another big offensive option down low who can shoot. Too bad we're stuck with Francis. I'd go for Ray Allen, if we can, or Rashard Lewis. Put one of those with Marbury, Lee and Curry, and we'd have a nice squad for a couple of years with Lee and Curry as the future with Balkman (hopefully).

I think Marbury gets a bum rap for a lot of b.s. outdated reasons.

So...

if we have Steph and get that shooter, who is the go to guy in a close game late?

Depends on who it is. Personally I would like Marbury to be a #2 option at the end of games, so I prefer Ray Allen, but maybe it depends on the matchup. Is Rashard Lewis a go-to guy? Not sure. Plus you can put Crawford out there (although I assume he'd be traded for one of those two).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 29, 2007, 06:21:49 PM
Re:  "bum rap":

It's not about attaching blame.  It's about envisioning successs - and eventually a title.

Steph may have upped his value a bit second half of last season.  Good time to pack him up.

kid, I suppose it's that like you said Marbury upped his value as the season went on. Is it not perhaps a coincidence that this took place after he may have accepted his role as the #2 guy behind Curry last year? After dealing with Brown's attempt to change his game and then part 2 with Isiah doing a much better job of convincing, I think, Curry's improvement, as well as the teams' record after getting more used to the new Steph of being aggressive when needed, but otherwise running the team via Eddy worked reasonably well.

The team was playing over .500 ball for a while until injuries messed things up, and Marbury was doing a really nice job of picking his spots, mostly when Curry was either struggling, or in foul trouble, which is what should be happening, IMHO. Now ad a go-to player and the Knicks are a good team, with some of the what's left after a trade of the young developing players like Lee, Balkman and Mardy, (my preference for keeping) Nate, Frye (who I have a bit less confidence in) and Morris, who we don't know much about. Plus whoever we get in this year's draft.

Point is the bashing of Steph is played out and not relevant after how he seemed to honestly change last year and the team was winning more. Let's see how he and a hopefully improved Curry and other youngins and maybe a trade or 2 work in a still wide open East in the near future.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 29, 2007, 06:40:46 PM
You may have seen a change.  I didn't.

And we sure didn't win more.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 09:33:45 AM
Seattle press reporting today that the Knicks will offer Crawford and either Nate or Frye in a deal for Rashard.

Still can't see it happening.

Paper also reported that Isiah hugged Lenny and they had a short conversation. No word on whether Wilkins proceeded to vomit or not.

----

Some other hoopshype tidbit suggested that the Blazers, in an attempt to draft Mike Conley Jr, would trade Randolph for Theo Ratliff and the #5 pick.

Where do people get this nonsense? Why would Ainge bring in a player that does exactly what Al Jefferson does, only at a higher salary and with a higher use of illicit drugs? Why would he trade his pick to Portland in order to get clowned for the second year in a row? And why not just draft whichever of Al Horford or Corey Brewer or Mike Conley falls to his lap?

It's nonsense like this that reminds me that the first paragraph, while it was reported, may have no truth to it whatsoever.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on May 30, 2007, 10:06:38 AM
Paper also reported that Isiah hugged Lenny and they had a short conversation. No word on whether Wilkins proceeded to vomit or not.

More important question: Did he say "Can I get some love?" during the hug? Zeek should know better. This is no time for a SECOND lawsuit.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 10:07:58 AM
Is there any truth to the rumor that Lenny and Isiah aren't friends anymore.  How mad can Lenny be after getting paid millions for not working?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 10:32:46 AM
Lenny's got loot. But he can't have loved getting disrespected the way he did.

Hey Kam - do you ever see Su or Answerman in any of the other virtual fora?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 10:39:35 AM
they're holding it down at ultimateknicks.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=21201 (http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=21201)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 30, 2007, 10:41:51 AM
Biz, Isiah is probably offering, doesn't mean Seattle is buying. Though replace Nate with Frye and I think you get close.

The Sonics would probably want Lee, at the very least we would need to include Balkman and/or our 23rd pick.  I think I would consider just about any deal that doesn't have Lee going out.  

Two of our youths plus the pick is a steep price to pay, but probably worth it for a young two-way SF who fills our need for a strong defender and jump-shooter.  You have to figure in how much he gets signed for, though.  I'm still hoping to be under the cap in 2009.

Two factors...1) How badly might Lewis want to play here.  My guess?  Not very.  and 2) How badly does Lenny want Crawford.  He's coached him, and who knows, he might like him.  If he does, then despite (1), this deal may not be out of the realm of possibility.  No matter the personal relationship between Isiah and Wilkins.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 10:56:01 AM
From a bball standpoint,  Crawford makes sense for Seattle if they're planning on Ray Allen going elsewhere soon via trade. But why not just let Rashard walk and save the money?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 11:00:37 AM
I'm not sure I consider Rashard a 2-way player or a strong defender. He's heady, he's consistent, he's light's out and a tough matchup. Offensively, he's a perfect fit for Eddy, and has high pick-and-roll potential with Marbury. I think Lee, Balkman and Q are players that would fit will with the Curry & Lewis nucleus (with the assumption that Steph is back as well). So I'd be willing to give up Frye, Nate and Craw for Rashard. Happy to replace whomever we draft at #23 for Nate.

Still don't know that Seattle would actually want Crawford. And still don't think that is the best offer Seattle receives, assuming either Charlotte or Orlando offers to break the bank for Lewis. Interestingly, Vince resigning with New Jersey probably helps our case, as that leaves the Cats and the Magic with fewer offers.

I used to pine for Earl Watson - but perhaps Mardy is our Earl Watson?

Jaqd jones for Chris Wilcox, but I'm not sure he and Eddy would make a good pair - very low basketball IQ there.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on May 30, 2007, 12:51:06 PM
I do like wilcox and how do everyone seems to know every one elses basketball IQ< I think Wilcox is a bruiser someone who can clean the glass(when he gets minutes) and would compliment Curry well considering he's a weak rebounder. If Curry is the nucleus of this team then we need players who can camaflauge Curry's weaknesses but this Williams cat in the draft ID take him because he looks like a more durable Marcus Camby, just what the doctor ordered.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 30, 2007, 01:33:08 PM
Chris Wilcox doesn't give us what we need...

David Lee is better.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2007, 01:37:44 PM
Jaq how many pizz tests did camby fail?

I'm hoping the Seatle Rumor pans out and the Sonics get no better offers. I'd love to see the Curry Lee Lewis front line though we'd be very thin in the back court. I still think that Craw, Nate and Frye is a good price, just wish there was a way to get Watson back as well.

On another note D-Mac (Dominic McGuire) is killing it at the predraft camp according to Draft Express


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2007, 01:40:12 PM
Craw Frye and Malik (8 + 2 + 7 mil) for Watson and Lewis (6 + 11 mil)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on May 30, 2007, 01:45:05 PM

On another note D-Mac (Dominic McGuire) is killing it at the predraft camp according to Draft Express

Everyones on the look-out for the next Renaldo Balkman.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 01:52:55 PM
How the hell did it come to this?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2886927


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 30, 2007, 02:41:20 PM
Soooo, what do the Knicks gove for Bryant?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 30, 2007, 03:01:51 PM
Lakers want to rebuild and Stephs only got two years left on his deal. ;)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 03:17:41 PM
As I said a few days ago:

Crawford, Francis, Frye, Lee, Nate and the #23 for Kobe, Radmanovic (bad contract) and Vujacic (stiff). Jackson has always liked big guards, including Crawford & Francis specifically. Sign Jason Kapono with our full MLE, then Bo Outlaw and Roger Mason as hard-working practice players.

Starbury / Mardy / (Mason)
The Second Coming / Kaponovic / Sasha
Q / Humpty / (Outlaw)
JJ Slim / VladRad / Malik
Curry / Big Snacks / (Morris)

Easy 50 wins next year. Maybe 55. Definite top contender in the East, for the next several seasons, no less. With Isiah drafting the role players. Excuse me while I go take a cold shower.


Reality check - The Bulls can (and should) offer a resigned PJ Brown, Gordon, Deng and Tyrus Thomas.  No way Knicks can beat that offer. Besides, I think Chicago is Kobe's pick. Big Ben/Nocioni/Thabo/Kobe/Hinrich and Duhon and the #9 pick is nasty.

p.s. Kobe only met with 4 teams in the summer of 2004: The Clippers (the right decision, as I said at the time), the Lakers (the wrong decision), the Bulls (the next decision), the Knicks (my dream decision)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 30, 2007, 03:33:49 PM
Yeah...

As much as I have always disliked Kobe, I have to say two things.  First, at least some of the things he said on that SAS interview sounds too much like the classic corporate cover-your-behind politicking that I see at work everyday for him to have made it all up.  Essentially, they make a move, then pin it on someone else, then deny every doing so, and then blame it all on someone elsewho is either no longer there, or is not in a position to come out and tell the truth.  Maybe he's lying, but maybe not.  And if not, I can't blame him for wanting out.

Second, the only way I start to like him is he gets to wear orange and blue.

Zeke needs to lobby him real hard - Kobe will go where he wants to go, so we need him to want to come to us.  We'd have to give up half the shop, but as long as we keep Eddy, David or Renaldo (preferably both, but that ain't happening) and Steph, I don't care who else goes.  We'd be in a great position to contend in the East for at least four seasons.
.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: badblkman on May 30, 2007, 03:40:47 PM
This is THE best player in the game.  You give the Lakers whoever and whatever they want to get him.  Think about it, he took a team with Smush Park and Kwame Brown to the playoff, in the West no less.

P.S. Since Kobe is under contract he can't be lobbied.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 30, 2007, 03:52:04 PM
This is THE best player in the game.  You give the Lakers whoever and whatever they want to get him.  Think about it, he took a team with Smush Park and Kwame Brown to the playoff, in the West no less.

P.S. Since Kobe is under contract he can't be lobbied.

You don't lobby him, of course. You merely speak to your old friend Magic Johnson, who has substantial influence on Kobe, and tell him how this can get done.  I bet you that's what Zeke's doing right now.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 03:55:48 PM
Kobe and Curry is enough in the East.

Anyone else can be traded.  Not that it will suffice, but thats what we should offer.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 03:56:11 PM
Then get Phil somehow to Coach and we're set.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 04:03:26 PM
Marbury, Lee, Frye, Nate & our #1 this year for Kobe & Radmanovic works, but it may not be enough.

Kobe
Craw
Balkman
Curry
Jeffries

Collins
Radmonivic
Q
James

This gives the Lakers no big deals after 2 years (Odom & Marbury expire), meaning major cap room, and a shiteload of young talent.

Lee
Bynum
Nate
Frye
Evans
Turiaf
Farmar
The Knicks #1 this year (#23)
LA's own pick (#19)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 30, 2007, 04:03:56 PM
For what it's worth, I think we need to keep as a minimum:
- one of Frye or Curry, preferably Curry
- one of DLee or Balkman, preferably DLee
- Mardy Collins

The rest of the current roster I would make available in any combination.  And if we keep the pick, draft Marco Belinelli as a designated sharpshooter.  All the best teams in the league have Europe-trained players on their rosters,and there is a reason for that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 30, 2007, 04:09:16 PM
Posting both here and on ultimateknicks.com is demanding.... someone should merge the forums...  :)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 04:12:36 PM
Semper - get out of ultimateknics!

DLee is the most marketable asset the Knicks have. He's as good as gone if we get Kobe (which we won't...he's going to Chicago...but we can still dream). I'm hoping to keep Balkperson.

PrezIke and I have posted similar deals. That team would kill most of the hapless East. Seriously - look at Cleveland. They might win the East, and half their team is terrible.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 04:12:40 PM
Posting both here and on ultimateknicks.com is demanding.... someone should merge the forums...  :)

hahaha...yeah, well...as easy as that would be I think the makeup of the posters is too different. UK is more frequently posted, but can get too nasty for my tastes, so this place acts like a haven when I get a headache from the super negative nancies.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 04:16:17 PM
Looking at that potential roster makes me think about how that is a VERY similar Phil Jackson LA team of the early 2000's. 3 good defenders (Kobe, Balkman, Jeffries) a PG who can nail the clutch outside jumper (Craw) and the monster post threat (Curry) to go with Kobe. What would be perfect then would be to pluck him away to coach the Kobe/Curry Knicks and let Isiah go back to being GM...

Let me keep dreamin...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2007, 04:16:43 PM
I'd do eithier PrezIke's or Semperknick's deal from our side but where doe's it leave the Lakers?

Semper: Bynum, Frye, Odom, Mo Evans and Crawford? Bynum, Odom, Balkman (no damn it, I just got his jersey!!!) Crawford and Farmar? Not awe inspiring

Prez: Bynum, Lee, Odom, Evans, Marbs? perhaps...

I think they get better offers, but more likely they kiss and make up after the playoffs


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 04:23:59 PM
I'd do eithier PrezIke's or Semperknick's deal from our side but where doe's it leave the Lakers?

Semper: Bynum, Frye, Odom, Mo Evans and Crawford? Bynum, Odom, Balkman (no damn it, I just got his jersey!!!) Crawford and Farmar? Not awe inspiring

Prez: Bynum, Lee, Odom, Evans, Marbs? perhaps...

I think they get better offers, but more likely they kiss and make up after the playoffs

I dunno man, Kobe sounded pretty damn serious, like someone who just had enough of being in a relationship with someone for a long time (I know that one all too well...haha). He said it in a very calm way, and when asked repeatedly by Steven A Smith if there was anything that could be done to change his mind he said "No" repeatedly in a very calm voice.

Sure, it's plausible that LA makes deals to get Kobe to stay, and that might work, but maybe teams don't want to do that because they know Kobe wants out, so why should they do the Lakers any favors, when they could possibly get Kobe on the cheap instead.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 04:27:05 PM
Prez - I think Francis, not Marbury, would be included in the deal.


Can anyone confirm the rumour that Chris Sheridan on ESPNews reported the Knicks are at the top of Kobe's list? I think Sheridan is easily the worst reporter ESPN has - he's constantly wrong. But I can't help but to get excited whenever I hear any of this.

---

Would you guys trade Curry + Craw + Lee for 81 ?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 30, 2007, 04:33:10 PM
Agree on Sheridan, he's rarely on target with anything he says.  But I still hope Magic is already out there whispering into Kobe's ears how great he would look on the world's greatest piece of hardwood....

But amazing how with one interview the entire focus of the offseason temporarily shifted away from the conf finals, Oden, Durant, and back to "what's up with Kobe".  Pure starpower.
 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 04:36:56 PM
I'm pretty sure Magic would try to convince Kobe to stick around in LA.

Is it tampering if Stephon hollas at his boy Kobe? The (former) Lakers star was the first guest star on Starbury's "Star on Stars" show.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 30, 2007, 04:44:13 PM
I thought Zeke and Magic were real tight these days... isn't that how he got him to give Marbs an earful ?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 05:14:30 PM
k, but Magic owns a small portion of the Lakers. His priority is the Lakers, not Isiah.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 05:27:04 PM
Biz, I tried to work out the same deal substituting Francis for Marbury and it doesn't work under the cap rules. The Knicks would have to throw in another player, but everyone else makes too much money if you want to keep Balkman, and then the Lakers don't really have anyone that I think they would rather lose to get Francis instead of Marbury. With Steph, at least they could put a competitive product on the floor for two years with he and Odom, Lee, Evans & Bynum, with Frye, Nate, Kwame and their two picks from this coming draft (assuming we throw in our first rounder) where as with Francis they would really be conceding to suck. If that deal went down, Odom would be one unhappy dude, and he didn't look too happy after the PHX series as it was with the comments he made. They would have to find a way to trade him, I think.

Essentially trying to include Francis in the deal sans Balkman is much harder numbers wise.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 30, 2007, 05:36:57 PM
If we clear the shelves for Kobe and throw in the needed draft pick(s?) we will need to restock. Here are some D leaguers we can call up to fill in the we'd create in a 4-2 or 3-1 trade


Elton Brown
Dijon Thompson
Julius Hodge
Stephen Graham
Kevin Lyde


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 05:47:33 PM
Biz, I tried to work out the same deal substituting Francis for Marbury and it doesn't work under the cap rules. The Knicks would have to throw in another player, but everyone else makes too much money if you want to keep Balkman, and then the Lakers don't really have anyone that I think they would rather lose to get Francis instead of Marbury. With Steph, at least they could put a competitive product on the floor for two years with he and Odom, Lee, Evans & Bynum, with Frye, Nate, Kwame and their two picks from this coming draft (assuming we throw in our first rounder) where as with Francis they would really be conceding to suck. If that deal went down, Odom would be one unhappy dude, and he didn't look too happy after the PHX series as it was with the comments he made. They would have to find a way to trade him, I think.

Essentially trying to include Francis in the deal sans Balkman is much harder numbers wise.

Well Ike - this works (in theory...if the Dan Patrick story is true, Kobe's Knick chances just went 1 in a 10,000 to 0 in 10,000). Anyhow it works with Kobe, VladRad, and Sasha and/or Cook. No need to trade Marbury (who has little value to the Lakers anyway) or Balkman.

Los Angeles Lakers - Incoming Players

 Channing Frye
Salary: $2,325,000  Years Remaining: 2   PTS: 9.5  REB: 5.5  AST: 0.9  PER: 10.50
 
 Jamal Crawford
Salary: $7,200,000  Years Remaining: 5  PTS: 17.6  REB: 3.2  AST: 4.4  PER: 14.60
 
 David Lee
Salary: $926,040  Years Remaining: 2  PTS: 10.7  REB: 10.4  AST: 1.8  PER: 20.31
 
 Nate Robinson
Salary: $1,185,480  Years Remaining: 2  PTS: 10.1  REB: 2.4  AST: 1.4  PER: 15.28
 
 Steve Francis
Salary: $15,070,000  Years Remaining: 3  PTS: 11.3  REB: 3.6  AST: 3.9  PER: 15.19
 

Outgoing Players: Vladimir Radmanovic, Sasha Vujacic, Kobe Bryant, Brian Cook

New York Knicks - Incoming Players
 Vladimir Radmanovic
Salary: $5,215,000  Years Remaining: 5  PTS: 6.6  REB: 3.3  AST: 1.2  PER: 11.02
 
 Sasha Vujacic
Salary: $973,920  Years Remaining: 2   PTS: 4.3  REB: 1.5  AST: 0.9  PER: 11.67
 
 Kobe Bryant
Salary: $17,718,750  Years Remaining: 4  PTS: 31.6  REB: 5.7  AST: 5.4  PER: 26.13

Brian Cook
Salary: $1,817,141  Years Remaining: 3   PTS: 6.9  REB: 3.3  AST: 1.0  PER: 14.83

Outgoing Players: Channing Frye, Jamal Crawford, David Lee, Nate Robinson, Steve Francis


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 05:58:31 PM
I just watched Pardon The Interruption on ESPN (I never watch ESPN anymore, except for big news or games) with some LA reporter who said that Kobe did tone down the rhetoric somewhat after speaking on a few other talk shows but he thinks that Kobe is serious about wanting to leave, and that it is more likely that the Lakers may be forced to move him after next season since he can opt out after the next year.

The Jerry West thing (which that guy Wilbon [?] was so sure would be magic) he said was not going to work because the Lakers have so few assets that it isn't like he can make some kind of miracle happen out of nothing and over the cap.

He then said "If I see 212 on the phone I'm not answering because the Knicks have nothing that the Lakers want." Which I think is complete typical b.s. about the Knicks from the press. Wilbon (?) said before that "You know the NY Knicks want to peddle off all of their players..." as if there are zero players that Isiah wants to keep. Shows you, IMHO, how ridiculous the anti-Knick rhetoric is in the sports talk world. I'm sure the Lakers wouldn't like Lee and Curry as part of a package (not saying the Knicks should do that). I swear some of these dudes don't watch any games or watch very few at all.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on May 30, 2007, 06:05:40 PM
Biz, I tried to work out the same deal substituting Francis for Marbury and it doesn't work under the cap rules. The Knicks would have to throw in another player, but everyone else makes too much money if you want to keep Balkman, and then the Lakers don't really have anyone that I think they would rather lose to get Francis instead of Marbury. With Steph, at least they could put a competitive product on the floor for two years with he and Odom, Lee, Evans & Bynum, with Frye, Nate, Kwame and their two picks from this coming draft (assuming we throw in our first rounder) where as with Francis they would really be conceding to suck. If that deal went down, Odom would be one unhappy dude, and he didn't look too happy after the PHX series as it was with the comments he made. They would have to find a way to trade him, I think.

Essentially trying to include Francis in the deal sans Balkman is much harder numbers wise.

Well Ike - this works (in theory...if the Dan Patrick story is true, Kobe's Knick chances just went 1 in a 10,000 to 0 in 10,000). Anyhow it works with Kobe, VladRad, and Sasha and/or Cook. No need to trade Marbury (who has little value to the Lakers anyway) or Balkman.

Los Angeles Lakers - Incoming Players

 Channing Frye
Salary: $2,325,000  Years Remaining: 2   PTS: 9.5  REB: 5.5  AST: 0.9  PER: 10.50
 
 Jamal Crawford
Salary: $7,200,000  Years Remaining: 5  PTS: 17.6  REB: 3.2  AST: 4.4  PER: 14.60
 
 David Lee
Salary: $926,040  Years Remaining: 2  PTS: 10.7  REB: 10.4  AST: 1.8  PER: 20.31
 
 Nate Robinson
Salary: $1,185,480  Years Remaining: 2  PTS: 10.1  REB: 2.4  AST: 1.4  PER: 15.28
 
 Steve Francis
Salary: $15,070,000  Years Remaining: 3  PTS: 11.3  REB: 3.6  AST: 3.9  PER: 15.19
 

Outgoing Players: Vladimir Radmanovic, Sasha Vujacic, Kobe Bryant, Brian Cook

New York Knicks - Incoming Players
 Vladimir Radmanovic
Salary: $5,215,000  Years Remaining: 5  PTS: 6.6  REB: 3.3  AST: 1.2  PER: 11.02
 
 Sasha Vujacic
Salary: $973,920  Years Remaining: 2   PTS: 4.3  REB: 1.5  AST: 0.9  PER: 11.67
 
 Kobe Bryant
Salary: $17,718,750  Years Remaining: 4  PTS: 31.6  REB: 5.7  AST: 5.4  PER: 26.13

Brian Cook
Salary: $1,817,141  Years Remaining: 3   PTS: 6.9  REB: 3.3  AST: 1.0  PER: 14.83

Outgoing Players: Channing Frye, Jamal Crawford, David Lee, Nate Robinson, Steve Francis

Biz, that works technically, but why would LA want Crawford? This is a more sideways deal from their perspective I think, becasue Francis sucks, but then they have to pay Craw after Francis' deal is done. Jamal has game but he's not a great asset for a team that will essentially stink at his age (27), where as the deal with Marbury is a short term hold the fort/rebuild strategy for 2 years where they then are BIG TIME under the cap in '09 and with a bunch of young players. Craw makes too much money for his talent making him hard to trade with making close to $10 mil for a 2 more years. I think they would want nothing to do with him, IMHO.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 06:31:15 PM
How about the Lakers 3-way Craw over to Charlotte for a 2nd round pick? Charlotte gets $3mill from us.



Title: Circle Jerk
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 07:12:00 PM
Yes, by all means, let's gut our team so that Kobe can go from one first round exit team to another, and while we are at it, let's bring in all of the crapola he has currently dragging him down in LA.

Bah, humbug.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 07:17:02 PM
(http://www.plosin.com/images/display/mdRight.gif)

Taps For Knicks Fans

The Lakers are not dealing Kobe.  Book it. 


Title: A Weak Fantasy Life.
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 07:25:05 PM
Okay, I'm a Kiljoy. 

(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d28/xxmyfataldesirexx/97FS9803.jpg)

Try fantasizing on this.  You have as much chance as the Knicks of getting Kobe. 

To dreeeeeeam, the impossible dreeeeeeam

(http://www.fen.bilkent.edu.tr/~sevincli/images/don-quixote.gif)


Title: I Miss...
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 07:32:50 PM
(http://www.hooplog.com/images/johnson_910626_350.jpg)

Come home, Larry!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 07:39:47 PM
We did it. We blew a gasket in his brain.  Now, without shame or remorse, CHIP finally gets the chance to break out his stash of kiddie-porn.  You sure she's 18?


Title: Re: I Miss...
Post by: Kam on May 30, 2007, 07:40:45 PM
(http://www.hooplog.com/images/johnson_910626_350.jpg)

Come home, Larry!

I don't miss that shirt.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 30, 2007, 09:26:46 PM
Wow, what a series of graphic images, each more amazing than the last, culminating with the LJ shot. Kam - don't front on the white pants either.

Chip - noone here actually believes Kobe is coming to the Knicks. Most don't think he's leaving the Lakers. But I'd think it would be strange if we didn't afford ourselves at least a few hours of fantasy brainstorming various trade concoctions.


Title: Fantasy
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 09:37:43 PM
I know, Biz, it's just that I will never quite get over how quickly some of us are willing to throw every young-un on the team under the bus at the first hint of an available superstar, no matter how many times in the past we have mortgaged our future for an aged star. 

(http://community.aaps.k12.mi.us/asyaweb/monet-venice.jpg)

It's like taking a beautiful picture and turning it into a sneak preview of hell.  

(http://scalzi.com/bosch3a.JPG)

Clearly, Isiah is going to try and make some moves, and while I am in the distinct minority here, I really don't want to summarily dump all of our youth, metaphorically tossing out the babies with the bathwater.   

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/48/131688364_13926392fd.jpg)

No more eating of our youth...


Title: Nice Image
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 09:40:58 PM
No message attached, just a wonderful picture of a charismatic, dynamic player. 

(http://www.lsu.edu/lsupress/Books/Jacket%20Images/Ruffin%20Images/RuffinUnderOaksPeteMaravich.jpg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 30, 2007, 10:43:27 PM
Wow, what a series of graphic images, each more amazing than the last, culminating with the LJ shot. Kam - don't front on the white pants either.

Chip - noone here actually believes Kobe is coming to the Knicks. Most don't think he's leaving the Lakers. But I'd think it would be strange if we didn't afford ourselves at least a few hours of fantasy brainstorming various trade concoctions.

Heh

Don't bother

These idiots won't give up Stephon to get Kobe.

Some won't even give Nate and Frye


Title: This Idiot
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 11:19:54 PM
(http://www.ket.org/pressroom/2001/39/REDS___1040.jpg)

Sure, this idiot would trade Channing and Nate for Kobe.  I ain't that daft.

And I would trade Steph, too. 

However, trading Channing and Nate and Lee and Jamal and the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus and our #1 pick seems a tad excessive. 

(http://www.acfp2000.com/Sections/Family/MARY%20AND%20BABY%20JESUS.gif)

And Jesus grew up to be one heck of a point guard.  But Mary was the Ultimater Soccer Mom, so... 

(http://purgatorio1.com/wp-content/pics/jesussavessoccer.jpg)

Forgive her Kiid, for she knew not what she do.   


Title: Execution
Post by: chipstern on May 30, 2007, 11:29:03 PM
(http://z.about.com/d/civilliberty/1/0/G/1/-/-/beheading500.jpg)

Man, San Antonio putting Utah to sleep. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2007, 08:00:10 AM
Chip - really?

You would not give up Lee + Frye + Nate + the #23 pick + Crawford + Francis + Isiah's mom for Kobe + VladRad?

Assume for the sake of argument Cupcake in LA is willing to bite. You wouldn't want this deal? How could one possibly say no?  Isn't the goal to win a championship? Wouldn't Kobe + Curry + Balkman + Q + Steph (and Mardy, JJ Slim, and VladRad) be enough to keep us in the Eastern Conference equation for at least 4 years?

You wouldn't do that deal?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 31, 2007, 09:16:12 AM
I would take Isiah's mom out of the equation - she does not command a big salary, and has a history of keeping her boy on the straight and narrow - which we sure could use come the free agant signing season.  No more JJs please, son.

Otherwise, I am on board for this deal.  All things considered, it puts us in the top 4 of the East instantly, and with Kobe's ability to change games, we would have a shot to come out of the East.  As much I it would break my heart to see DLee go - we would still have The Balkmaniac, although I would prefer to keep David - and if we get to the East finals, I would get over this somehow...

Marbs would still come off the books after two years, so we could maybe see cap space. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 31, 2007, 09:43:56 AM
Some interesting words from Wojnarowski (Yahoo Sports):

"Jerry Buss has no inclination to ever trade one of the rare few ticket sellers in the sport, and Bryant doesn't want to leave Los Angeles.

Sure, he has his moments. He thinks about it. When he woke up Wednesday morning, he had gone back to that deep-seeded desire he's long had to take his act to Madison Square Garden. It was no coincidence that he chose Stephen A. Smith's New York radio show on Wednesday to say that he wanted a trade out of L.A.

Whatever. Bryant isn't leaving, but if he did, several league sources believe he wants to play for the New York Knicks. And that includes one high-ranking Western Conference executive, who said, "I think he would only go to New York."

Wherever he would go in the Eastern Conference, that team would immediately be a conference championship contender. Kobe with almost anyone would be comparable to the Cavaliers with LeBron. A third team, maybe even a fourth, would be needed to create a circumstance where Bryant could be traded to the Knicks. There's no way Buss could sell Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford, the core of a 30-win East garbage bin, as the Lakers' new era."


Other than the Curry in Hollywood part - Isiah ain't trading Eddy Curry, not even for Kobe - the rest of it rings true.


Title: Re: This Idiot
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2007, 09:58:32 AM

Sure, this idiot would trade Channing and Nate for Kobe.  I ain't that daft.

And I would trade Steph, too. 

However, trading Channing and Nate and Lee and Jamal and the Virgin Mary and Baby Jesus and our #1 pick seems a tad excessive. 

And Jesus grew up to be one heck of a point guard.  But Mary was the Ultimater Soccer Mom, so... 

[/quote]

I'm moving anyone they want, minus....................




















Curry
Collins
Any #1 pick


Title: More likely scenario...
Post by: chipstern on May 31, 2007, 10:46:16 AM
(http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/ian_thomsen/02/16/notes/Thomas-Dolan-2.16.jpg)

While I would target Gerald Wallace, from what I am reading, Rashard Lewis is a more likely scenario on Zeke's radar, and I could surely live with that...

(http://img.sports.tom.com/img/assets/200502/050212142033Rashard-Lewis.jpg)

What would it take? 

My man Channing Frye for certain.  Sonics have a couple of young centers in Sene and Petro and that big white kid (Robert Swift?), who all have some upside, but Frye's skill set is more mature and advanced, and would certainly jibe with Chris Wilcox and Nick Collison at PF, and Durant at SF, assuming Seattle takes him, and why the truck not?  Gotta figure Channing would be way more comfortable being the center on that front line, then Eddy's complement in NY. 

Who else?  My guess is that Seattle is pretty stocked at PF-C, has Damien Wilkins as a SF-G, and would be more inclined to look at Knick guards...either Jamal, Nate or Mardy. 

Reckoning would be that Isiah would try and pawn Nate off on them, as a cheaper alternative than Jamal.  They have Ridnour and Watson at the point, and N8 might be a fit.  Think Nate makes more sense as an offensive spark coming off the bench behind Ray Allen, Luke Ridenour and Earl Watson.  Jamal more of a featured player. 

Does Frye, N8 and say...Malik get it done?  Mmmmm, probably not.  Jerome James.  Haha.  Jared Jeffries could perhaps fulfill the defensive role player function he was supposed to do with the Knicks.  Not completey far-fetched, as one would think he might be a Lenny Wilkens-type player, more effective in a more limited role. 

Frye, Jeffries and N8 seems in the ballpark...a pretty fair deal.  Gives Sonics some real depth at C-PF-SF-SG.  Lenny says he wantes to resign Rashard, but with Durant coming (assuming Portland takes Oden, and why not?), I think that is posturing.  Neither of them makes sense as a PF, save in spot duty.  Don't have the bodies. 

Numbers are about right.   Frye, Jared and N8 add up to $9,354,840.  Rashard was paid $9,350,649 in the final year of his contract.  Dead on match there, and 15% of three Knick salaries is $1,403,226, so Knicks could start out Rashard at between $10,000,000-$10, 758,066 and bump him up a million per for say five-six years.  Think Dolan would go for it. 

Question is does Lenny go for it? 

Ray Allen is signed for $16-17.4-18.8 through 2010.  Ridnour and Watson at the point both due around $6.5 through 2010.  Damien Wilkins due $3.3 through 2010.  Which is why I think N8 makes more sense for them than Jamal. 

Would thin out the herd, some. 

Curry-Lee-Lewis-Jamal-Steph

Morris-Rose-Balkman-Quentin-Mardy

Stevie-Jerome


Maybe if we keep our #1, McRoberts or that BC kid falls to us, as Lewis would preclude the pressing need for an outside shooter...Rashard can fill it up.  Figure Stevie might be eager enough to accept a bargain basement buyout? 

(http://www.jesuswalk.com/greatprayers/images/hezekiahs_prayer_woodcut622x600.jpg)

Let us pray...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2007, 10:53:05 AM
If we deal Frye, I need a 4 back in the deal or in something subsequent.

Like Lee off the pine.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 31, 2007, 10:57:02 AM
Vescey espousing the rumor of JO to LA for Odom and Bynum.

Kobe gets his O'Neal back.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 31, 2007, 10:59:21 AM
...and 15% of three Knick salaries ...

25%!!!!!   get it right!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2007, 11:00:25 AM
Runningmate for Mardy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/javariscrittenton.html


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on May 31, 2007, 11:00:35 AM
Stevie due to make 16.4 and 17.1 through 2008-2009.  

Steph due to make 20.1 and 21.9 through 2008-2009.  

How bad does Stevie want out?  That's a lot of money to leave on the table.  

If someone gave him the MCE for five years, that would evenout.  

However, Stevie just turned 30 on 2/21.  While Steph turned 30 on 2/20.  

How freaking weird is that?  

Unless Francis is willing to accpet a really big hit on a buyout, gotta figure he is a Knick next year, as Isiah looks for depth in back court, considering Steph, Stevie, Quentin and Jamal are ALL COMING OFF OF INJURIES.  Only Mardy fully ambulatory.  

Cannot fathom Isiah (and Glen Grunwald, don't forget about him) being able to pawn off Stevie on anyone, not with those salary numbers.  And unwanted bodies we'd have to take back.  

Would Dolan take a big hit to be done with him?  I think Isiah still sees Stevie having some game in him.  Though clearly he ain't what he once was.  

Neither Stevie nor Steph, our aging twin Pisces, figure to play the kind of minutes they did in the past.  


Title: Kiid
Post by: chipstern on May 31, 2007, 11:13:49 AM
Don't know if he falls our way, Kiid 

Nor is it likely McRoberts falls.  But what if he did?  Or Tiago Splitter, who is a very defensive-oriented player. 

Isiah might make a reach on the Sean Williams kid from BC, marijuana nortwithstanding.  Balkman was seen as a major reach, and he worked out okay.  Williams is a defender who bounds and blocks shots.  Not seen as a character hustle player in the same way as Renaldo though.  Perhpas Knicks could trade down, grab another pick, and still get him.  Then we could look at getting a shooter if one should fall that far, like Almond. 

Be quite a gamble.  Does Williams turn into Theo Ratliff/Chris Wilcox or Eddie Griffin/Keon Clark? 

Due dilligence needed herein. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2007, 11:39:38 AM
Gotta look to deal up, puppy.

Sad, ain't it?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2007, 11:44:07 AM
Chip I'm hoping this is the year it slowly becomes the Mardy show. Confidence over the last month plus mentoring from Clyde and Temple instilled work ethic makes me believe he can maintain his impact and improve his efficiency given the minutes.

Following the hot rumor, if we can get Lewis for something like N8, Frye and Rose we have a pretty interesting down the line 5

Curry, Lee, Lewis, Collins, Crawford

Though I think its more likely we see Craw as part of the deal

Curry, Lee, Lewis, Collins, Marbs works for now, but we will need another guard to partner with Collins for the future. I think Kidd's choice of Jarvis Critterton isn't a bad one. We'd be swapping one 6'5" erratic yet talented guard for antother at a much lower price. As far a embryonic combo guards go, I'd take a look at Petteri Koponen from Finland. We can stash him for a year and when he does blow up you can sport a "Playboys" jersey when you catch him at the garden.

The Finn for THE WIN



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on May 31, 2007, 11:47:40 AM
Runningmate for Mardy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/javariscrittenton.html

Yeah, that kid looks good.  I have never seen him play but some people have spoken very highly of him - not sure he's even there at 23. 

The only caveats would be that his NBA comparison is Stevie Franchise, and he went to Georgia Tech just like you know who....   :) :) 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 31, 2007, 12:03:16 PM
lemme guess...

Mark Price?
Kenny Anderson?
Jarrett Jack?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2007, 12:05:00 PM
Bosh

(he's young, could have another growth spurt)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on May 31, 2007, 12:43:49 PM
Of course last week I posted that I didn't wwant someone so young, so............................

Rudy Fernandez maybe looking better


Title: Draftwerk
Post by: Kam on May 31, 2007, 03:14:17 PM
Two guys on the radar here had sub-par Day 1s at Orlando.

Daequan Cook, SG, Ohio State
6 points, 8 turnovers, 3-for-10 shooting

Cook may have more raw talent than anyone else at the camp, but he's also the youngest player here and it really showed.

He displayed poor shot selection, forced way too many plays and ended up looking very much like a kid who needs to go back to school.

I know he says he's staying in the draft, and some team may take him late in the first round based on his upside, but Day 1 was a pretty big disappointment.

Dominic McGuire, F, Fresno State
4 points, 2 rebounds

I've never understood some of the hype surrounding McGuire, and he did nothing to justify it. He struggled to score on Demetris Nichols, a guy not known as a defensive stopper.

Whatever his game is, it was difficult to see in this setting.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on May 31, 2007, 03:28:08 PM
For what its worth, DraftExpress had this to say YESTERDAY about Dmac after day 1 of the camp.  Today was technically day2 but the first day of real games. Yesterday there were scrimmages but no real games.

It is way too early to be drawing conclusions, but there may not be a better prospect in Orlando in terms of raw physical tools. McGuire was a man on a mission throughout the first session, looking to attack the basket off the dribble and blowing by his man fairly easily. McGuire dazzled all in attendance with a stunning put back dunk, and looks to be on the verge of a huge camp. Now McGuire must answer questions about his jump shot, which may be easier said than done at this point. The answers will start in the drills tomorrow…

After getting 4pts today with 2 rebs, they had this to say:

Early buzz recipient Dominic McGuire was quiet, scoring just 4 points and grabbing 2 rebounds for the game.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on May 31, 2007, 05:36:19 PM
As a super odd thought what if Isiah drafted Coby Karl?

Imagine Daddy's face on draft night

George would have to wathc his mouth as Zeke would control the next 4 years of his kid's life



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2007, 06:13:11 PM
If we deal Frye, I need a 4 back in the deal or in something subsequent.

Like Lee off the pine.

As long as Eddy can't clog up the middle on D, gotta agree with Kid.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on May 31, 2007, 06:18:15 PM
As a super odd thought what if Isiah drafted Coby Karl?

Imagine Daddy's face on draft night

George would have to wathc his mouth as Zeke would control the next 4 years of his kid's life



haha....since Coby ain't likely to get picked until late in the 2nd round, it would be great if Isiah purchased the pick. High comedy.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on June 01, 2007, 01:36:09 AM
Huge game in the East as the Cavs possibly change the Eastern dynamics if they eventually win the series. The Pistons will have to do some serious soul searching and wonder what they are doing with their veterans like Wallace, Dice, and Weber. If Detroit blows it up and leaves the Cavs as the best team in the East, man its wide open, especially as the Knicks have matched up well against the Cavs.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on June 01, 2007, 04:01:34 AM
True.  Definitely (even if Detroit pulls this one out somehow) there seems to be a change of guard in the East - with Miami, Detroit both facing some serious age/fatigue/committment issues, Cleveland and Chicago may emerge as replacement powerhouses.  Orlando will bo good also.  Indy going nowhere fast, New Jersey on its last legs (Kidd's legs, that is), Washington not really a long-term factor unless they do a lot of work on their roster...

All we need to do is get good.  Then it will all be much simpler.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2007, 09:29:53 AM
Every guy on Washington knows their role.  No merry go round for minutes.  3 All Stars.  Mix  of young vet and projectable talent. 

Don't thinkm that roster needs much work to be a playoff team again.  Or maybe you meant to get to 50-52 wins.

Donovan - fresh off my list - to Orlando.  Beautiful.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2007, 09:32:20 AM
East is -

Toronto and NJ

Chitown and Cleveland

DETROIT

Washington

That leaves 2 slots

Orlando and Miami have legs up.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on June 01, 2007, 10:17:10 AM
Every guy on Washington knows their role.  No merry go round for minutes.  3 All Stars.  Mix  of young vet and projectable talent. 

Don't thinkm that roster needs much work to be a playoff team again.  Or maybe you meant to get to 50-52 wins.


Exactly what I meant - they have enough to hang where they are, but some serious upgrading to do (especially down in the post, and overall defensively) before they can move up to match with the best in the East. 



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 01, 2007, 12:30:37 PM
Lebron is a man I watched that game last night in orr saying we need a manchild like that I know there's one lurking in the shadows somewhere. Anyway all of this talk of Kobe is bullshit, Kobe is squeezing management nuts again and if I was Isaih I wouldn't even speak on it.  Now what we should be doing is putting together a package to get ROn Artest on the cheap maybe Jared and N8 for ROn ROn. Then we trade Malik Rose and Channing Frye to Atlanta for Sheldon williams and Speedy Claxton.  Then we'll be ready to make a run

Starting lineup


PG Steph
SG Crawford
SF Artest
PF  Williams
C  Curry

second unit
PG  Mardy
SG  Q
SF  Balkman
PF  Lee
C   Morris


and we'll still have Speedy on the bench


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 01, 2007, 01:06:24 PM
Lebron played so great last night that I honestly think they think they can pull this off.  Gibson is a steal...he can play and get to the line and make them.
There where times when Gibson looked better than Hughes.

Lebron was about to get at McDyess last night good thing they held him back.

Do you think lebron will be tired for his next game/

I have seen Lebron use Billups...burn Tayshon, Dunk ob Rasheed and go at McDyess....This guy has no fear of Detroit.  Macsiel is a young stud that Detroit needs to get in the game. 

Next game in Cleveland....Lebron will be looking to roll...dont let Gibson and Gooden get going...

Big Z has been quietly playing very well also...if Varajao and pavlovic come to play its a wrap.  Funny thing is in my opinion Detroit matches up with San Antonio better than the Cavs... I guess we will see...but the next Jordan is lebron not Kobe or Wade or Carmelo... 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2007, 02:12:22 PM
I am interested to see what SUPERSTAR Billups has to offer the next game(s).


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 01, 2007, 02:42:47 PM
SUPERSTAR Billups played well last night however coach Flip doesnt seem to be sticking with what works...

When Billips is going well he wont keep going to him...Macsiel and Webber also have played well and he stopped going to them also....

Detroit is veteran tean who has been here before...So itw will be a great game in Cleveland..

May the best team win!

I like Lebron but think the Pistons match up with the Spurs better...

Tayshon better wake up


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 02:52:43 PM

I like Lebron but think the Pistons match up with the Spurs better...

Tayshon better wake up
Cleveland was 2-0 against the Spurs this year, and had the best record against the West of all EC teams this year.  Just for the record.

As a Cavs fan, the only teams I could not see them beating were the Mavs and the Suns.  The Spurs would be and should be heavily favored - if for no other reason the one advantage the Cavs have had throughout the playoffs (that of having the best player on the floor) is not that big an advantage against Duncan - but an upset would not be that shocking.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on June 01, 2007, 02:59:12 PM
Yes,

Cleveland team is growing on me, guys that hustle and their star can't shoot - and they are winning and playing better and better - peaking at the right time!..........put me down for wishing them the win it all, very tired of the same old Spurs and Pistons. Thats no knock on James, he is willing wins, imagine when he develops a MJ or Kobe jumper - yikes!

Jaq - you might be onto something with the RonRon fire sale, heck Thomas has been pretty good about holding his cards and making the least expected move. Artest right now is the dark horse....I have no problem with the Seattle trade though. Keep Lee unless we get top tier star....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on June 01, 2007, 03:48:37 PM
Some good points on the blogs about not killing the cap as we have the opportunity to be under in 2 years for the first time in forever. Kobe can also opt out of his contract then and we can get him fo' free. So how destructive would the Lewis signing be (in terms of cap and yutes)?......Perhaps the cap goes up in a couple of years and we could still be under with Lewis signed?.........and maybe we can get away with giving up Fyre and an expiring contract, possibly Nate. Though I suppose having Francis, Crawford, Q, ect....would be too many with addition of Lewis.

Also, and here's a reasonable point ----- the Knicks are fun to watch right now, they may not have the savvy to win close games or get that big stop or nail that big bucket ----- but they enjoyable to watch. If we stood pat and enjoyed the games even losing close but hustle games, the Knicks could get a couple more solid draft picks before the slew of FAs become available when we finally go under the cap. We also continue to market our youth, keep the studs, try to move the redundant pieces when the Kobe's of the league finally become available to us......


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 01, 2007, 04:46:22 PM
I think Cleveland SA would be fun.
As for us I rank getting Lewis, getting Artest and standing pat in that order.

Dmac bounces back: 11 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 4 turnovers, 4/6 FG


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on June 01, 2007, 06:03:54 PM
the Knicks could get a couple more solid draft picks before the slew of FAs become available when we finally go under the cap.

Isiah has already traded away 38% of our draft picks through 2010.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2007, 06:29:09 PM
Collins
Lee
Balkperson
Frye
Nate
Morris

Let Isiah trade 38% of picks (only one a first rounder) over the next four drafts. We don't have room for all those yutes anyway. As long as Isiah nails the picks he does make and the trades make sense, I'm not sweating a silly little stat like 38%.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 01, 2007, 06:40:22 PM
Which one fo those is a future allstar?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 01, 2007, 07:08:11 PM
Which one fo those is a future allstar?

Which one of (or should I say fo?)our posters is suddenly voting to get rid of Stephon?
 ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 01, 2007, 09:34:16 PM
David Lee, actually.

But the point is to not to keep picks as a rule or to fret we don't have enough youth. The point is to be open about making deals. Like you yourself said, if it improves our first 8, make the deal. If it costs us picks, makes the deal. This isn't the Layden era - we have assets.

(just protect the picks properly this time)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 01, 2007, 09:45:22 PM
How about Channing Frye (and possibly our draft pick) for LeBron?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 01, 2007, 09:48:24 PM
This forum needs an enema


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 02, 2007, 08:38:48 AM
Thanks for sticking your head in and diagnosing that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 02, 2007, 09:21:04 AM
This is a pretty fantastic site:  http://www.nba.com/encyclopedia/moments/60moments.html


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 02, 2007, 11:07:06 AM
Papabear Says

If we can get Lewis without giving up too much then let's do it. Lewis alone wont make us a contender. You must understand that a Lewis in Seatle is much different then a Lewis in New York. Everyone want's a peace of the Knicks. All teams will play Lewis harder than he played in Seatle.
We in New York are good at destroying our young. Example: If Fry didn't have a breakout season as a freshman and he just played ok, his Southmore season would not be in question. As a matter of fact we just might be betting the house on Fry. Fry had a dissapointing southmore season so we want him out.
I would just get rid of who we don't need and get a pure shooter for our 23rd pick and away we go.
Hey I love this blog site and it's good to read opinions from you guys again.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 02, 2007, 03:13:41 PM
....begin transmission...

Papabear Says
Hey I love this blog site and it's good to read opinions from you guys again.
Papabear

the blog love you back. mahalo!!!


...end transmission...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on June 02, 2007, 05:13:04 PM
Maenwhile in the Rocket land....

Rumours that Houston offered Shane Battier and their pick (26th) for Rashard Lewis to bring him home. Clyde Drexler reported to have been lobbying Lewis hard.

They als offered to swap Juwan Howard for Mike James, and send Bob Sura's contract to GOlden State for Sarunas Jasikevicius. 

They are serious about this uptempo thing...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 02, 2007, 06:07:34 PM
If I were Seattle, I'd be all over that Battier deal


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 03, 2007, 06:20:26 AM
If I were Seattle, I'd be all over that Battier deal

Except that if you draft Durant, he's your SF, which is also Battier's natural position.  Seattle needs a PG and a big man who can actually play.  I think they sweeten any Lewis trade by tossing in Petro or Sene, trying to get back more.

A bit odd for Houston as well, since Rashard has basically the same game as TMac.

Sounds all queer to me.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 03, 2007, 10:24:24 AM
Papabear Says
Here's what we need to do in order to get Lewis work out an agreement with or point guard Steve that we will buy out his contract only if he has and agreement in placy to go to Seatle. Trade Fry and who ever else and our draft pick if we want him that bad. We can forget about getting Jermain O'Neal for Indy because Larry bird is so stupid with hate for Zeak that no talk no deal with the Knicks. Zeke will have a problem making deals with a lot of teams. Bird would rather give O'neal away for free before he deals with Zeke. I think that our only hope is to find a diamond in the rough at our 23rd pick. We won't get any star to good player out there. It's a hate thing and don't think these GM are not talking. Hold Zeke (one of the few black GMs around). Zeke won't get a deal this summer. Now remember what I said!!! He won't get a trade, and if any it will be a low level deal.
Sorry guys I'm just making it real---no deal. But hey that does not mean we can't dream and play pretend.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2007, 12:49:32 PM
Bo - Actually, I think Battier and Durant can co-exist quite well. I'm not too concerned about both being nominally "threes". In a small lineup, one or the other can play the four, in a big lineup, Battier guards the two, and both shoot well enough to ensure quality spacing on the offensive end. Anyhow, the deal doesn't really work cause Battier doesn't earn enough. And the pick will be made before Lewis becomes a free agent. I'm just saying if I were building a team, I'd like to have a guy like Battier around. He's like our Q, only better.


Title: LeBron
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2007, 12:50:36 PM
Guess which free agent is not leaving Cleveland in a couple years to come to New York, irrespective of how much we get under the cap?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 03, 2007, 02:12:47 PM
No bigger Battier fan than Bo.  But that deal makes no sense to me on either end.

For the draft, it looks like a lot off guards will be available down low in the draft, as per usual.  I want a shooter.  Stuckey, Belinelli, Afflalo, Almond.  All seem able to hit from outside.  Any of these the next Allan Houston?  Afflalo apparently defends as well.  Can anyone who has seen these players weigh in.  The other name seems to be Marcus Williams, or perhaps any PF who drops. 

Or maybe once we land Rashard then we just need a rebounder/defensive 4.
(yeah, right)



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2007, 02:50:01 PM
Hey Bo - why focus on a 2? At pick #23, with depth galore (and conceding that we need a stronger starting 5), I'm all for drafting the best player available, irrespective of position. I will admit that an offensive 5 or a defensive 3/4 tweener may seem a bit redundant with our lineup, however.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 03, 2007, 04:36:38 PM
It looks like a number of shooters will be in our range. 
Of course last year it was PG's and Isiah mostly took a pass.

Reason #2: I'm not a Crawford fan, and don't like the Marbs/Craw pairing.
Also, except for our low-salary yutes,  Craw is one of the few players we have that has trade value.  With Eddy down low, I want someone to consistently hit threes.

After an SG, I'd like a defensive big, but doesn't look like too many of those around.
Really I think our team is a mess.  The pieces don't fit.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2007, 07:29:13 PM
Bo - I agree about the pieces not fitting, though I'm not as down on Crawford as you. I just don't think he should start, his chemistry with Marbury notwithstanding.

But given where this team was a few years ago, it was never going to be easy to find talented pieces that fit. Isiah chose to focus on the former aspect - talent - as opposed to the latter. His reasoning appears to be that in order to win a championship, marginally talented pieces that fit well just won't cut it. Instead, he seems to have focussed on raising the talent level, giving himself more chips, and moving from there.

If this team stays as is, it's not going anywhere in the medium term. We might improve, but we won't make a conference finals let alone win a ring. This is why I don't agree with ChipStern who appears reluctant to support any deal that coughs up our yutes. I agree that as it stands, it's not a finished product. And I agree that since the pieces don't fit, they will never mature into a finished product. There has to be trades at some point, to satisfy the "pieces that fit" portion of the argument.

(That having been said - the Francis deal was the worst type of acquiring-talent-for-the-sake-of-it deal.  Both Isiah and LB certainly seemed to have conceded that.)


Title: Meanwhile....
Post by: lesterdog on June 03, 2007, 07:49:43 PM
Former NBA point guard and current TV analyst Mark Jackson is thought to be the front-runner for the Grizzlies' GM post.


Griffin is staying put; Jackson now leads pack
By Ronald Tillery

Mark Jackson, a former NBA point guard-turned-television analyst, appears to be a leading candidate to join the Griz. Boston's Chris Wallace and former Denver boss Kiki Vandeweghe have also interviewed. Former Chicago Bulls point guard and executive B.J. Armstrong remains a possible candidate.


We're stuck w/Piston retreads while Knicks with brains head south. Another opportunity squandered.
Marky Mark don't start two guys named J.J. over.........or rather, don't sign em.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on June 03, 2007, 07:54:07 PM
really it makes a person completely dyspeptic


Title: Best Player Available?
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 03, 2007, 10:49:59 PM
Mike Dougherty gets my vote as the best Knick blogger....Knickerblogger is okay too, but Dougherty is the only actual journalist that is worth reading. Isola, Berman, and others are garbage.

Anyhow, he wrote about the upcoming draft today, and suggested Knicks will be after the "BPA". Plus, he advocated moving up into the lottery, a strategy that I know Kid has espoused in the past. I'm all for it if involves Frye, Morris or Nate. For the others, it would depend on the pick. Who wants to move their pick? Atlanta? Maybe New Orleans? Maybe Charlotte (maybe we trade Crawford and Frye for the 8th pick)?


Let’s start by setting the stage. Isiah Thomas already has six players with two years of experience or less—Channing Frye, Nate Robinson, David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, Mardy Collins and Randolph Morris. There is no longer any need to get younger.

It would make a lot of sense to deal up in this draft, and not a couple of spots. Way up. Get a lottery pick if possible.

No matter who the Knicks end up with, that player isn’t likely to crack the rotation. Thomas is looking to add somebody with noteworthy potential who can be used to lure a marquee name down the road, or take over a specific role when he deals somebody higher on the depth chart.

That means he’s going after the best available player with the 23rd pick.

It sounds like Thomas is thinking beyond next season, and the season after that. At the pre-draft camp in Orlando, he talked a lot about having enough cap space in two years to pursue an impressive free agent class.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 04, 2007, 08:07:48 AM
I don't know, biz.  I dont think a trade-up is in the cards for a couple of reasons:

- Trade our number 8 pick (+ Crawford?) from two years ago after a bad season to try to crack the lottery again this year?  I know this is a deep draft, but its still the NBA draft, littered with busts as well as gems.  We could just as easily be trading "down".  That said, I would trade Channing Frye for Joakim Noah right now.  But no one would be listening.

- Isiah seems a lot more comfortable in the underdog role i.e. picking up gems late in the draft when expectations are low.  There are going to be some decent guys available to us at 23 (or even later if we try to get another late pick) including some front-court possibilities:  Splitter, Sean Williams, Avis Wyatt.  Zeke will have confidence that the guy he picks there will be a player.  You trade up using Frye (+ Crawford?) all of a sudden that pick better be a player, or else.

- I get the argument; how many youths can you play and still expect to compete for a playoff spot.  But then how does sending out a known quantity in Frye (+ Crawford?) give us any more confidence that this will work?  You get a key front-court player then what are we doing with Lee and/or Balkman?  You get a key back-court player what happens to Robinson and/or Collins?  No, like it or not if we trade the pick we are probably going to snag more veteran help.

...and meanwhile, this Kobe rumor isn't going to die.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 04, 2007, 09:13:06 AM
Kobe is not going nowhere he's going to die a laker( book it ) next Lebron and his sidekick put on a clinic the other night and I guess its time to start throwing some detroit players into the pool of trade rumors Im thinking Jeffries, N8 and Frye for Tayshaun and Maxiell. Why do we do it -- for the obvious reasons -- why do they do it -- for the sake of change that team is over and if saunders get a job somewhere else that should tell you about the owners in this league.


Title: Tradesies
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 04, 2007, 09:20:20 AM
If we could trade up to #8 and grab Jo Noah to play next to Eddy Curry, that would be worth it in my eyes. Would give up talent, yes, but looking for pieces that fit.

Also, if Isiah really is looking long-term and wants to get under the cap in two years, then we need to trade one of Curry, Jeffries, Snacks or Crawford. We may need to move two of them. In such a long-term plan, trading up for, say, Mike Conley, would also not be a bad idea (although that would indeed render Mardy moot).

I'm not saying that a trade-up is going to happen, although I am saying I would be intrigued if it did happen. Mostly, however, I'm saying that this team, as constructed, cannot contend for the championship. Even if you accept that a contender can be built around Curry (and the jury is out), we don't have the right pieces to fit around Curry. Something has got to give, either this year or next. Surely Isiah knows that. He's just plotting when the right time (in his eyes) is to make the move.

jaqd - If Dumars made that deal, everyone would assume he'd be shot in Detroit. Good GMs usually don't deal talent like Tay away "for the sake of change". But if it works, sign me up.


Title: Trade-up
Post by: rembee on June 04, 2007, 09:44:23 AM
Also, if Isiah really is looking long-term and wants to get under the cap in two years, then we need to trade one of Curry, Jeffries, Snacks or Crawford. We may need to move two of them.

Nope.  The Knicks could sit on their hands and be roughly $10 million under the cap in 2009-2010.

I'd be intrigued if a trade-up happened too.  And in theory it sure would be nice.  But I can't think of a realistic scenario that a) I like and b) another team might consider.  Last draft maybe moving Frye moves us up.  In this "magic" draft and after hte year he had he does not.  Add in Crawford and you start talking about a lot of salary exchanging hands.

I think the observation that we need to start moving some of our young talent for better fitting young pieces is a good one.  i don't disagree.  And sure, if we can include some of our larger contracts to do that, sweet.  In theory, its great.  So, now what?

I'd be immensly surprised, by the way, if Kobe died a Laker.  He is clearly not happy with the organization and he has a few valid reasons to feel the way he does.  I think the Lakers are going to try to bring in an ON or KG to pacify him, so maybe he doesn't force a move this year.  But baring that move vaulting them into true contention (and I'm not sure it does) Kobe is out of there in two years.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 04, 2007, 10:03:59 AM
Who is ON? Jermaine?

$10 mil under the cap is still $3-5 mill too little. Plus we have draft picks coming in. But I agree that it's tough to fathom a deal. You wouldn't do Crawford & Frye & the #23 for Charlotte's #8. I'm presuming they wouldn't do it if we swapped Nate for Frye.

How about the #9 pick? We could offer Eddy Curry, but we'd have to get Ty Thomas in the deal as well.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 04, 2007, 10:20:25 AM
$10 mil under the cap is still $3-5 mill too little.

For what, exactly.  LeBron James?  Carmelo Anthony?  Chris Bosch?  Fill-in-the-blank?  Reality is that none of those guys are going to get signed outright.  If they are moved at all it’s going to be in a S&T.  There will be precious few teams that are going to be the $16-18 mill below to start their contracts, and guys of that stature get to pick where they end up.  As long as we are under the cap we can S&T without sending a lot of salary back to the other team and while we might need a young guy or two and/or a pick to sweeten the deal that would be a small price to pay for bringing in a guy like that.

And if its not one of those guys?  Being able to offer a long-term contract starting at $10 million is a great place to be.

wouldn't do Crawford & Frye & the #23 for Charlotte's #8.

In principle, no.  Draft picks are like magic beans to some fans, every guy in there is a future all-star.  But he could end up being another...Channing Frye.  And after only having the kid for two years on our roster, I'm not sure that would be such a bad thing anyway.

But regardless, Charlotte wouldn't do it, and neither would Isiah so no need to go into it further.

Blowing up this roster for draft picks isn't going to happen.  Isiah was re-signed on the promise of this roster being a playoff team next season, and Crawford was the second biggest piece of that roster.  As  long as Dolan is in charge, that’s just how things are going to be.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 04, 2007, 10:25:53 AM
Good one Biz hilarious, but so far Ty just looks like an average PF who might be good --no love lost there.  I think if we let Curry mature ie. this year he upped his scoring and stamina --next year he ups his rebounding, --third year he ups his defense --we'll be okay. Its much like Frye the guy had one bad campaign and everyone including me has the guy on the next boat out of town. The vigors of the big city will take it toll on anyone BUT maybe just maybe if we allowed our rookies to grow instead of shippping them out and constantly badgering them we 'd be on to something. Just think the crowd was booing this young squad for two years in a row that will take its toll on anyones game more or less rooks and sophs. I think if they survive the first two years it makes the players stronger after awhile they then can handle NY demands. Maybe Frye grew up this summer and can handle the barrage of boos, maybe N8, lastly don't think constant booing and name calling don't effect  a persons game because it can, Thats why Oden said he didn't wanna start out in a big market city he needs time to develop. Look at Kwame a superstar gone bad.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 11:01:23 AM
The last time the Spurs played the Cavs
The cavs won! 78 to 82

Cavs Rally Late to Sweep Spurs
Cleveland 82, San Antonio 78
CLEVELAND, Jan. 2 (AP) -- For three quarters, defenses dominated. In the final one, chaos ruled.

LeBron James scored 19 points, Larry Hughes added 18 - 13 in the fourth - and the Cleveland Cavaliers smothered and frustrated San Antonio from end to end during a rugged 82-78 win over the Spurs on Tuesday night.

Hughes hit three 3-pointers in the fourth and Damon Jones scored eight points in the final 1:35 as the Cavs, who have struggled on the road, improved to 14-3 at home and beat the Spurs for the second time this season.

They did so by harassing San Antonio all 94 feet, holding the NBA's second-most accurate shooting team to just 38 percent from the field, a season-low 28 field goals and only 10 points in the third quarter.

After scoring just 44 points in the first three periods, the Cavaliers scored 38 in the final 12 minutes.

"Somehow, someway, we stayed with it,'' said Cleveland coach Mike Brown, a defensive guru who learned about stops and schemes as an assistant under San Antonio's Gregg Popovich. "We all showed grit. We won the game the right way.''

Jones scored all 11 of his points in the fourth, and Anderson Varejao added seven rebounds, including four on the offensive end when he outhustled and outmuscled San Antonio's big men under the basket.
Tony Parker led the Spurs with 26 points - 14 in the fourth - and Tim Duncan had 18 points and 15 rebounds.

San Antonio played the final six minutes without Popovich, who was assessed two technical fouls and ejected following a wild sequence that began with Duncan complaining about contact. Assistant coach P.J. Carlesimo ran the club down the stretch.

"I felt there was an inconsistent whistle,'' said Duncan, who finished 6-of-15. "They got more points at a time which calls and shots were starting to go their way.''

Despite shooting just 36 percent from the floor, the Cavaliers won their third straight over the Spurs, the first time they've done that since 1988.

"It's big for us,'' Hughes said. "I've never been on a team that beat those guys twice. It's definitely good to beat a Western Conference power a couple times.''

Maybe it was the return of the old ball or maybe it was just good old-fashioned defense, but neither team could get its offense untracked as the Spurs entered the fourth holding a 50-44 lead.

The Cavaliers finally started to find their range and caught the Spurs at 52-all when Hughes drained a 3-pointer while being fouled by Manu Ginobili with 9:45 remaining. Cleveland pushed its lead to 64-59 on two free throws by Varejao.

On San Antonio's next possession, Duncan had his shot down low blocked by Donyell Marshall, and as the teams left the floor for a timeout, the Spurs' center pleaded his case for a foul to referee Kevin Fehr, who didn't want to hear it.

That's when an enraged Popovich got involved. With his assistants running after him, Popovich bolted onto the floor, sidestepping the Cavs' mascot, Moondog, near midcourt as he sprinted in the direction of Fehr, who immediately tossed him and gave another technical to Carlesimo.

"I wanted to make it easy for him because that can be embarrassing for an official if he's not sure if you want to go or not,'' Popovich said. "I thought he did a great job.''

Jones made two of three free throws and the incident seemed to fire up the Cavs, who went up 73-67 on Jones' jumper with 1:35 to go. James then missed the second of two free throws, but Varejao's aggressiveness caused Duncan to tip the ball out of bounds.

Jones then made the Spurs pay by hitting a 3-pointer to make it 76-67.

Parker kept San Antonio close by making four driving layups in the final 45 seconds, but the Cavs hung on despite making just 6-of-10 free throws.

Notes: James doesn't rate his dunks so he wouldn't put a number on his soaring slam over Duncan when the teams played on Nov. 3. However, he'd love a copy of the poster if there was one. "I'd put it in my son's room,'' he said. ... Marshall strained his neck in the fourth quarter. ... The Cavs play nine of their next 10 on the road. ... Popovich believes the hubbub over the return of the old ball will quickly fade. "It's just like the dress-code complaints - they'll go away,'' he said. ... Parker's fiancee, actress Eva Longoria, attended the game. ... The Cavs are 21-6 the past two seasons when Hughes scores at least 15. ... Duncan has 18 double-doubles this season.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 11:07:53 AM
I am going with the cavs baby all the way!

this is the earlier win...In San Antonio..

SAN ANTONIO, Nov. 3 (AP) -- LeBron James dunked over Tim Duncan with a snarl, an early statement of a rugged night. And by the time it was over, the Cleveland Cavaliers got out of San Antonio with their first win in the Alamo City since 1988.

James scored 35 points, hitting a key layup and free throw late in the fourth to help snuff a San Antonio rally and lead the Cavaliers to an 88-81 victory Friday night.

I was 4 years old the last time we beat San Antonio [on the road],'' James said. "I think for us to become one of the powerhouses which we've been preaching, we've got to go out there and walk the walk.''

But James' night wasn't as easy as it might have looked when he powered over Duncan for the early slam and scored 15 points in the first quarter.

The Spurs, one of the most dominant homecourt teams in the NBA, slashed a 13-point deficit in the fourth down to four and might have won if not for an 18-of-34 effort shooting free throws.

"I wish I had a nickel for every time somebody asked me if free throws are a concern,'' Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "[They have] always been an Achilles' heel.''

Duncan finished with 25 points and 12 rebounds and scored 14 points in a five-minute span to spark the rally. But he struggled badly from the line, going 9-of-19.
"I've shot a million free throws over the summer,'' Duncan said. "But it's nothing like actually getting in a game, banging around and then having to calm yourself down.''

James, who missed five consecutive shots in the Spurs' rally, hit the layup then made one of two free throws for an 86-79 lead with 42 seconds left. His outlet pass for a dunk by Larry Hughes, who had 18 points, finished it off.

"We showed poise down the stretch,'' James said. "They made a run and we were able to withstand it.''

James, who scored 44 points in a game against the Spurs last season, started strong Friday night against Spurs defensive specialist Bruce Bowen.

The Spurs managed to quiet James in the second quarter, holding him to four points, but couldn't find an offensive rhythm to take the lead. Duncan and spark-plug guard Tony Parker were mostly quiet, combining for 10 points.

James finished the half with a highlight layup, again driving past Duncan for an off-balance shot that he finished with a giddy-up dance in front of the Cavaliers' bench.

"He was fantastic,'' Popovich said. "He's a physical specimen and that's the least of his attributes.''


Cleveland led 62-56 going into the fourth. James started the final period on the bench but sloppy play by the Spurs helped the Cavs stretch the lead to 69-56 with free throws and a 3-pointer by Hughes.

When James started missing, the Spurs started their comeback when Duncan hit a free throw and a dunk.

James said he had known about the Cavaliers' long streak of frustration in San Antonio.

"I think for the franchise, it's great to get that off your back,'' he said. "This is a great win for us. The Spurs are the best team in the league.''

The Spurs have lost only 19 times on their home court since 2003, but two have come in the last two games. The Spurs lost to Dallas in Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals last season.

The Spurs, who beat Dallas in their season-opener, are in the middle of four games in five days.

"It's kind of tough,'' guard Manu Ginobili said. "You're a little rusty and your legs are not the same as January or February.''

Notes: Before the game, Spurs forward Robert Horry spoke to the crowd and pledged to try to win another NBA championship. "We'd like to welcome you to another edition of the Spurs show,'' he said. ... The Spurs signed James White on Friday. White averaged 3.8 points and 2.0 rebounds in eight preseason games with Indiana. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 04, 2007, 11:31:28 AM
Hey jaqd - you're absolutely right about giving youth time to develop, especially in New York. My problem is that if you are going to build a team around Curry, you need some pretty specific pieces, because Curry is a rather unique player (for better and for worse).

Keeping in kind that Curry is:
- an excellent back-to-the-basket scorer,
- someone who is fantastic at drawing fouls and incurring the penalty,
- an average-at-best-rebounder,
- a non-existant help defender,
- an average man-to-man defender in the post who cannot step outside to cover the perimeter,
- not a particularly high-energy player,
- an average "basketball IQ"
- and a below average passer, especially out of the double-team

I would say you need (barring a very dramatic turnaround in Curry's game):

- a point guard that is a strong defender, can make the entry pass, can hit the open shot
- at least one wing that is a dead-eye shooter that demands constant attention. Both wings need to be at least good on-the-ball defenders
- a perimeter player that can create his own shot late in the shot-clock
- a PF that is both strong and agile enough to cover the inside-out PFs in the East (Bosh foremost among them). The PF needs to be effective without occupying the low-block, cause Eddy's already there
- a shotblocker that can play the 5 but also play PF alongside Eddy
- some high energy players, and players that are good offensive rebounders
- players that can get to the line and hit their free throws
- players with reasonably high basketball IQs

Channing Frye doesn't fit in here. Nate Robinson doesn't fit in here. David Lee and Renaldo Balkman and Mardy Collins do fit in, but I'm not sure that Lee, who is definitely the best of the bunch right now, will ever be anything more than the first big man off the bench as long as Eddy is here because he doesn't defend well enough nor does he provide the shot-blocking presence that is lacking.

If the goal is to win a ring, Frye cannot start next to Curry. Lee cannot start next to Curry. And the bench is not big enough for both Frye and Lee (in fact Lee may balk at playing off the bench long-term, if the rumours are true). So something has to give. Does anyone disagree?

---

Spurs in 4. It will probably be 5, but that's too easy a pick. I'll go out on a limb.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 04, 2007, 11:37:15 AM
We all know regular season and the playoffs are two different pills to swallow, I think the cavs are riding a high right now so it should be a competitive series BUT did you see all those whistles that game against detroit its almost like stern knew Lebron in the finals would be a better sell then the pistons and spurs. Lets keep it real if its no big cities in the big dance no one wants to watch --- and if its a small market the only alternative is to sell a star Lebron is the next coming of Jordan he's still a year or two away but he's starting to realize it and when it sinks in look out nba because stern and his posse of zebras are going to make it known who's league this is.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 11:47:47 AM
Biz says ....Spurs in 4. It will probably be 5, but that's too easy a pick. I'll go out on a limb

I will remind you of your prediction after the Cavs win more than 1 game...

Jaq...yes playoff basketball is much more presure than regular season but..the Cavs have made it to the Finals...they must be able to play a little bit...

Go King James!

I like what lebron had to say about the Knicks and Coach Thomas....

lebron is a class act....



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 04, 2007, 12:15:31 PM
what did bron say


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 01:15:51 PM
$10 mil under the cap is still $3-5 mill too little.

For what, exactly.  LeBron James?  Carmelo Anthony?  Chris Bosch?  Fill-in-the-blank?  Reality is that none of those guys are going to get signed outright.  If they are moved at all it’s going to be in a S&T.  There will be precious few teams that are going to be the $16-18 mill below to start their contracts, and guys of that stature get to pick where they end up. 

----------------------

NASH was signed outright.

The particular player's want factors in.  Dallas never had the chance at a sign and trade


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 01:16:07 PM
So Kobe Bryant wants to be traded to Pluto, Kobe and Shaq are best buddies, Jerry Buss has become Lindsay Lohan, and basically all heck has broken loose in Lakerland.

Three years removed from his ugly feud with Shaquille O'Neal, Bryant has turned his toxicity on the entire Lakers organization, specifically the general manager he is trying to get fired, Mitch Kupchak.

"I've been quiet long enough," Bryant told The Philadelphia Inquirer in a story published yesterday.

Really? Bryant's comments came only a couple of days after he directly insulted Kupchak by suggesting to ESPN The Magazine that Jerry West should be brought back to fix the team.

He backed off the comments when speaking to The Los Angeles Times, saying, "I love being a Laker. I want to retire a Laker. I want to fix this thing, or at least help any way I can."

Then came a Times story Monday in which a "Lakers insider" was paraphrased about Kobe's insistence on being separated from Shaq three years ago.

So Kobe, ostensibly offended by a throwaway line in the 20th paragraph of a newspaper article, has been keeping a grueling media schedule to set the record straight: Buss told him back in 2004 that he was trading Shaq because he didn't want to pay him, not because he couldn't get along with Kobe. Shaq was quoted as saying he believes Kobe "1,000 percent."

And here we thought Kobe was from Mars and Shaq was from Venus.

"I think Shaq's being kind, frankly," said a former GM familiar with how the Shaq-Kobe situation went down. "I think they made a decision that they could keep one or the other. Part of the reason they made the decision was financial. But the other part was that Kobe was in a public feud with Shaq."

Now Kobe is saying that the Lakers' brass - read, Kupchak - lied to him about how quickly the team would try to make another championship run. He fails to mention that he signed with the Lakers because they could pay him $136 million and the Clippers couldn't.

Anyway, the "help" Kobe spoke of came yesterday, and you have to at least give him props for his multi-platform approach to creating a media firestorm.

On the same day his most definitive trade demand was printed in his hometown Philadelphia paper, Bryant unburdened himself even further in a couple of rambling, inconsistent interviews on ESPN Radio.

He reiterated the trade demand and said his agent has relayed it to Kupchak. He took another shot at Kupchak by saying he'd back off the trade talk if West were brought in. Then he strangely admitted that Phil Jackson was able to talk him down with assurances that his "trust issues" with the organization would be addressed.

Within hours, Bryant went from "At this point, I'll go play on Pluto," to "I want to be a Laker. I want to be here for the rest of my career."

Once all the posturing dies down, Kobe won't be going anywhere - unless all of this gibberish has earned him a shot at Rosie's seat on "The View."

"I think Kobe's talking out of frustration right now and he's not thinking this through," the former GM said. "It would be hard to acquire Kobe and not decimate your team. If he gets traded to a team like Atlanta, is he going to be happy?"

Bryant has a no-trade clause, which of course he would waive only if the Lakers found an acceptable destination. He also has a $13-million trade kicker, which his new team would have to pick up in addition to the $89 million he has left over the next four years. He can opt out in 2009, leaving $47 million on the table.

Would Portland trade the No. 1 pick (Greg Oden) and Zach Randolph for Kobe? Maybe. Would the GM-to-be-named-later in Seattle trade the No. 2 pick and Ray Allen for Kobe? Maybe. But his name better be Jerry West.

Would the Knicks . . . OK, stop. Only one scenario is more farfetched than that.

"It would almost be poetic justice if Kobe wound up in Miami with Shaq," my former exec said.

Kobe has a better chance of playing on Pluto, and he would hate it there, too. There are no radio stations.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 01:30:55 PM
For me, right now, if I'm building my team on the broad shoulders of Eddy Curry, then I need a guy with broader shoulders to help him carry the load. Patrick Ewing needed Charles Oakley. Eddy Curry needs the same. Mr. Dirty Work. Doesn't need the ball. Can hit the jumper. Will hit opponents who venture into the paint.

Perhaps it's someone who right now is hiding on someone else's bench. Someone like Jason Maxiell, who had been relatively under the radar in Detroit until the playoffs. He can block shots, he rebounds. Dunks the spit out of the ball any chance he gets. Great hustle around the paint and great size. Doesn't cost a lot, either. His deal, which extends to 2009-10, maxes out at 2.7 million. Chump change on the Knicks payroll.

But, because he's young and inexpensive, why would Joe Dumars want to remove him from a potential championship roster and toss him to his buddy Isiah? Perhaps with McDyess and Sheed and C-Webb already clogging up the minutes in the paint, Dumars sees Channing Frye as a better fit off the bench with the drive-and-kick style the Pistons play. Or Nate Robinson as a backup point guard who can replace the aging Lindsay Hunter and learn some maturity and control from Chauncey Billups


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 04, 2007, 01:36:45 PM
Cavs in 6.  And by "Cavs" of course, I mean the Spurs but cannot bring myself to actually post it.  Let's go CLEVELAND!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 04, 2007, 01:39:24 PM
Connect thats exactly what I was thinking but I was hoping we can somehow pry Tayshaun away, maybe Dumars look out for his boy since he won a ring in this decade he can survive off that achievment in detroit.  I agree Maxeill is worker Bee sort of like that young PF  from Utah Paul Milsap he's another one I would like to get to play next to Curry. These guys play like Camby less the injuries go after rebounds and attempts to block everything in the paint --its amazing those type of players are becoming extinct and the finesse Charles smith type of PF is taking over the league.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 04, 2007, 01:50:59 PM
rembee is generally right from earlier. The point is that EVEN if the Knicks stay pat with their current roster, meaning sign no more players, resign their young guys (Lee, Frye, Nate, Balkman, etc.) and let the contracts of Marbury, Francis, Rose, etc. run their course the Knicks will be a good amount under the cap in '09. Sure, that on it's own is not enough to sign Kobe, Lebron, Mello, but Isiah/Grunfeld could make moves to move guys to get more under the cap.

I actually think that the Knicks don't need to, nor do I think its as likely, to get one of those guys in a sign-and-trade because of a few factors:

1) the amount of extra dollars a star will get from playing in NY I would think already covers the extra money lost by leaving their respective team. I have no current evidence to show how true this is (which would be nice to see) but there were those crazy reports about Lebron getting A LOT more money from NIKE if he plays in NYC. Even better for attracting such a player, is that by signing a guy outright that player can not only get similar or higher earnings, but the Knicks wouldn't have to give away any talent to do so. NY, by default, is always going to attract guys who want to be stars because they can shine brighter around the world and get more money. Sure, the standard of living in the area is higher, but the earning potential is also probably far greater. Now, for Kobe, in LA he already has that shine, and wants to play somewhere that can win. I think the evidence is there that the Knicks, if not able to get him in a trade, could get Kobe for little or no compensation to LA if they have most of their current core of youth.

2) Another potential argument against the sign-and-trade idea is two fold. First, the CAVS are not going to sign and trade Lebron for peanuts to the Knicks unless he demands to go to the Knicks. Is there any indication that he would actually do that? Now, if the Knicks had a team with a better outlook with Curry, Lee, etc, and could convince him he would make more money and more respect as a superstar by playing in NY, why bother to sign and trade and give up players that decrease the likelihood he leaves Cleveland? For Kobe, it's a similar situation except I think he seems more likely to want off his team, and be interested in NY. Any situation where the Knicks seem to have a better outlook for winning makes them more likely to get him, I suspect, because it seems that Kobe wants is to prove he can win W/O Shaq.

Who knows what will happen, but there is certainly reason to believe one of these scenarios COULD happen, and are not just some crazy pipe dream.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 04, 2007, 01:52:02 PM
Nash was signed outright to a contract starting at $9 million per.  Not Anthony-Bosch territory.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 02:17:19 PM
Malik, Nate, and Bulls pick tothe Kings for Ron Artest....

Francis, Frye, and Lee to the Pacers for Jermaine O'Neal....

David Lee & Channing Frye for

Emeka Okafor & Charlotte's 1st round pick.
--------------

Channing Frye/Jamal Crawford/Nate Robinson

for

Andrei Kirilenko

We clear up a little of our scoring guard glut and get one of the best defensive players in the league to bring steals and block shots. He can also score when needed.

On the flip side, AK-47 has been a huge disappointment so far this year. He's got a large contract and has taken a back seat to Okur and Boozer. The Jazz' frontcourt seems to be secure to the point where he would become expendable. Instead they get 2 dynamic scorers to join Deron Williams in the backcourt. I also still believe Channing Frye has some value as a skilled young player with good character. Definitely a player Sloan would love.


Thoughts?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 04, 2007, 02:20:38 PM
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) ? Utah Jazz owner Larry Miller said Andrei Kirilenko, his highest-paid player, is "putting himself on thin ice" with inconsistent play and complaints about his role on the team.

Miller said he cringes during some of Kirilenko's jump shots.

"I'd almost like to call his bluff, say 'OK, automatically we're going to leave you out there. You're going to take 20 shots a night five games in a row. And then we'll see,' " Miller told radio station 1280 AM.

"That would resolve the issue," Miller said Thursday. "He's either going to make them or he's not."

After a meeting with coaches Tuesday, Kirilenko said he sometimes doesn't feel like he's on the floor.

"I just go back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and I go to sleep," he said.

Miller didn't like it.

"I would have to say he's putting himself on thin ice," the owner told the radio station. "The combination of not playing very well and shooting his mouth off ? that's not a good combination."

Come on Isiah, buy low and grab this guy while he's at a low point in his career.[/i]


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 04, 2007, 02:39:29 PM
I wouldn't mind AK but not as our SF Id much rather Artest for that, he can play the PF next to Curry a lengthy agile shotblocker who can hit the midrange jumpshot is just what the doctor ordered but at SF we a guy who can stretch the D and be a threat at all times when Curry is on the floor. I think AK is JJ with a bigger contract and a higher basketball IQ.


Title: Hanging With My Homies
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2007, 03:02:57 PM
(http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/may292007/hanging_noose_310.jpg)  Boy oh boy, none of you seem to give David Lee credit for any kind of growth arc.  Damn!

I agree with whomever said Rashard Lewis or stand pat.   

(http://images.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/_photos/2005-02-23-in-nova.jpg) I have a feeling that Sean Williams of Boston College is on Zeke's Radar, a big, athletic shotblocker [6'10, 235] who can defend.  Particulary if through some miracle he can bring Rashard in.   And some scenarios have Tiago Splitter falling down into our neck of the draft. 

The player I would try and move up in the draft for is 6'8" Jeff Green of Georgetown, but I do not see that as realistic. 

And some of the proposals I saw to move for Noah?  Do you guys really see him as an upgrade over Frye?  What am I missing here? 

Nor do I see Artest coming herem unless it is in some sort of fire sale, and even then, you cannot depend on him.  Pity, because he is just what we need, but what a loose cannon. 

PS: How bizzare is the whole Billy Donovan scenario?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 03:15:49 PM
Frye-Noah is like Jason Williams-Derek Harper


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2007, 03:48:36 PM
what?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 04, 2007, 04:04:31 PM
Chip it isn't as if one has to not give Lee credit to mention him in a trade. Any mention of him in a deal seems to make you cringe...what gives? It ain't that cut and dry, bro. I don't think we should go for Lewis, honestly. He's not a superstar IMHO, and that's what the Knicks are, and have been lacking since we lost Ewing. Sure there are the Detroit's of the world, but I don't know if we are that kind, or will ever be that kind of team. Our core is SCREAMING for a superstar. Put them on this team with enough parts intact (i.e Curry, Balkman, Collins, and if lucky some of the Lee, Nate & Frye group) and we have a real competitive squad, not a marginal "maybe" team as we have now.

You gotta give to get, and for as much as I love Lee's game, I'd move him in two seconds if it meant getting Kobe or Lebron to pair with Curry, as long as we can keep Balkman and Collins I'm good. If we get to keep Frye, that's great too. I'd rather see what happens with the Kobe situation, either getting him now at 28 under his current contract or at 30 for say a 4-5 year deal, pending how he plays over the next 2 years or see if we can get under the cap for '09, with (at least most of) our current young core and compete for Lebron, Bosh, Anthony, than sign Lewis to a 6 year deal at 28 years old with Marbury (who I have repeatedly stated I liked last year). 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 04:38:40 PM
Chip it isn't as if one has to not give Lee credit to mention him in a trade. Any mention of him in a deal seems to make you cringe...what gives? It ain't that cut and dry, bro. I don't think we should go for Lewis, honestly. He's not a superstar IMHO, and that's what the Knicks are, and have been lacking since we lost Ewing. Sure there are the Detroit's of the world, but I don't know if we are that kind, or will ever be that kind of team. Our core is SCREAMING for a superstar. Put them on this team with enough parts intact (i.e Curry, Balkman, Collins, and if lucky some of the Lee, Nate & Frye group) and we have a real competitive squad, not a marginal "maybe" team as we have now.

You gotta give to get, and for as much as I love Lee's game, I'd move him in two seconds if it meant getting Kobe or Lebron to pair with Curry, as long as we can keep Balkman and Collins I'm good. If we get to keep Frye, that's great too. I'd rather see what happens with the Kobe situation, either getting him now at 28 under his current contract or at 30 for say a 4-5 year deal, pending how he plays over the next 2 years or see if we can get under the cap for '09, with (at least most of) our current young core and compete for Lebron, Bosh, Anthony, than sign Lewis to a 6 year deal at 28 years old with Marbury (who I have repeatedly stated I liked last year). 

Lee's not a superstar - no - but you don't deal the guys that complete the puzzle for when you GET that star.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 04:47:39 PM
what?

Didn't get that one, eh?

Oh well


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2007, 05:00:35 PM
yeah, no. pretty bad analogy.  ???


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 05:22:57 PM
Yeah

unless you know hoops


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2007, 05:52:27 PM
Actually no. If you can't back up your thoughts it proves you don't know A) English B) Exposition.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 04, 2007, 06:49:40 PM
Kidd are you trying to say that JWill and Frye are soft while Noah and Harp are Manly men and true Ballers? That's what I got from the analogy. As for the Noah and Frye comparison I am inclined to agree though time will tell.

Here's a nutty one for you

From Wash: Twan and Hayward + 16th Pick

For: Jamal, Malik, Frye and N8.

They get depth and young depth which is what killed them last year and they get rid of a guy who was turning their lockerroom into The Contender season 3.

We get a an all star spread the floor foward to play next to Curry (for one season after which we have no chance at signing him) as well as a shot blocker and rebounder who is effective in short minutes and the 16th pick.


Title: Kiid Logic
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2007, 06:52:13 PM
So...

One-dimensional offense versus gritty all-around game.  

Fair enough.  However, what offensive game has Noah displayed.  Good defender and rebounder, good finisher on a transition team, but has yet to display a post-up game or a consistent jumper.  

So the metaphor should have been...

Jason Williams-KC Jones

(http://www.nba.com/media/history/kc_jones_layup_200.jpg)


Title: Lee & Rashard
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2007, 07:11:29 PM
Hello, yes, I would include Lee in a deal for Kobe or LeBron. 

But we ain't getting Kobe or LeBron. 

At the very least, Lee is exactly the kind of get it done role player like Phil Jackson or Mike Riordan that helps you compete and win games. 

Personally, I think he has a lot more upside than many of you give him credit for.  Before he got hurt he was like an automatic double-double, night in night out. 

As for Rashard, if he ain't a superstar, he is damn sure an All-Star.  Look at his stat line, thank you.

http://basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html (http://basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html)

Improves every year.  Shoots a high pecentage from the field, including close to 40% from three-point land, and converts FTs to the tune of around 84%, getting you around 6-7 rebounds a game and 2 or 3 assists. 

He is only 28, healthy, 6'10" and at his peak as a player.  Would give us a dangerous outside presence who can also score down low. 

I mean, what the fuck is there to compain about here?  That he ain't Lebron? 

I would sure love to see a frontline of Curry-Lee-Rashard. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 07:14:13 PM
Kidd are you trying to say that JWill and Frye are soft while Noah and Harp are Manly men and true Ballers? That's what I got from the analogy. As for the Noah and Frye comparison I am inclined to agree though time will tell.

Here's a nutty one for you

From Wash: Twan and Hayward + 16th Pick

For: Jamal, Malik, Frye and N8.

They get depth and young depth which is what killed them last year and they get rid of a guy who was turning their lockerroom into The Contender season 3.

We get a an all star spread the floor foward to play next to Curry (for one season after which we have no chance at signing him) as well as a shot blocker and rebounder who is effective in short minutes and the 16th pick.

You guys keep offering DICK for stars


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 07:23:37 PM
Actually no. If you can't back up your thoughts it proves you don't know A) English B) Exposition.

You've become a total jackass when responding to me ever since I started posting on the political boards

Get a grip

And NO - I won't explain my posts that are EASY to decipher.  This is not second grade.


Title: Re: Lee & Rashard
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 07:25:47 PM
Hello, yes, I would include Lee in a deal for Kobe or LeBron. 

But we ain't getting Kobe or LeBron. 

At the very least, Lee is exactly the kind of get it done role player like Phil Jackson or Mike Riordan that helps you compete and win games. 

Personally, I think he has a lot more upside than many of you give him credit for.  Before he got hurt he was like an automatic double-double, night in night out. 

As for Rashard, if he ain't a superstar, he is damn sure an All-Star.  Look at his stat line, thank you.

http://basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html (http://basketball-reference.com/players/l/lewisra02.html)

Improves every year.  Shoots a high pecentage from the field, including close to 40% from three-point land, and converts FTs to the tune of around 84%, getting you around 6-7 rebounds a game and 2 or 3 assists. 

He is only 28, healthy, 6'10" and at his peak as a player.  Would give us a dangerous outside presence who can also score down low. 

I mean, what the fuck is there to compain about here?  That he ain't Lebron? 

I would sure love to see a frontline of Curry-Lee-Rashard. 

Re:  Mr Lee

See, this is the differing thought process -

Chip willing to give a Lee to geta  star, while I have Lee an untouchable, though I don't even have him starting.

The role guys are often tougher to come by.  Keep them like GOLD when you have em.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2007, 07:53:22 PM
Whatever. Grow a pair. 

Your own medicine tastes bitter, eh?

As for offering crap for stars I agree with you.  There's plenty of that going around.  We're not getting the squeeky clean super stars for our re-cycle bin. LeBron etc... fuggethabout. Guys like Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace are discussed because they are tarnished stars whose teams may be tired of their antics and technical fouls. 

I'm inclined to agree with Chip. No deals unless someone else is in fire sale mode.  Isiah can do his diligence, as is due, but unless we shed salary or its a two-year contract... why?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 04, 2007, 08:01:41 PM
Actually no. If you can't back up your thoughts it proves you don't know A) English B) Exposition.

You've become a total jackass when responding to me ever since I started posting on the political boards


No i've known about your politics for a while.  The fact you're a red-sox fan is what i take issue with.

About your Derek Harper analogy.  Derek Harper could play.  He wasn't just a souped-up hustle guy.  Noah has a motor that you have to love but i wanna see him prove it before i put him up there with Derek as a two way player.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 04, 2007, 08:17:32 PM
Whatever. Grow a pair. 

Your own medicine tastes bitter, eh?

As for offering crap for stars I agree with you.  There's plenty of that going around.  We're not getting the squeeky clean super stars for our re-cycle bin. LeBron etc... fuggethabout. Guys like Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace are discussed because they are tarnished stars whose teams may be tired of their antics and technical fouls. 

I'm inclined to agree with Chip. No deals unless someone else is in fire sale mode.  Isiah can do his diligence, as is due, but unless we shed salary or its a two-year contract... why?

Bollocks

This team needs disassembling

New starting 1-2, minimally


Title: Untouchable
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2007, 09:30:52 PM
To me, Lee is damn near untouchable.

I am willing to concede his inclusion in a deal for a Tier One Elite

But that is a most grudging admission. 

I agree that guys like Lee and Balkman and Collins are like GOLD.  And that every team needs players like them...much as Varejao and Bowen in the finals.   



Title: Re: Untouchable
Post by: rembee on June 04, 2007, 10:14:22 PM

I agree that guys like Lee and Balkman and Collins are like GOLD. 


Gold...as in valuable in a trade.

I' m willing to give up Lee for less than a star, as long as it is a guy who is as good at shot-blocking as Lee is rebounding.

Balkman gives us much the same.  May not ever get to the level Lee was even last year in some categories, but he is a better defender.  The two play the same position, one can be moved.

And before Chip posts a reply coupled with an unflattering jpeg depicting me as, I don't know, Richard Nixon or George Bush...I like Lee a whole lot.  But I am buying the argument that a Lee+Curry starting front court doesn't get it done.  We don't get a can't miss deal?  I'm fine with hanging on to Lee to see if it works.  Just don't think it likely.


Title: Rembee The Beautiful
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2007, 11:29:32 PM
Richard Nixon.

Nah...

(http://www.hollywood-celebrity-pictures.com/Celebrities/Jenna-Jameson/Jenna-Jameson-29.JPG)

I think better of you than that...

Now, Kiid...

(http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/7/78/Popeye.jpg)

Keep Lee


Title: Re: Untouchable
Post by: lesterdog on June 04, 2007, 11:43:25 PM
Gold...as in valuable in a trade.

Figures you'd want to trade the only three guys I want to keep.

I like Lee a whole lot.  But I am buying the argument that a Lee+Curry starting front court doesn't get it done. 

Then ditch slow learner. The other day I'm out on the playground breaking in the Starburys and I shoot around with some 9 year olds. Teach 'em to block out in 15 minutes. Seriously, what's up with that? 15 minutes vs. 7 years in the league.

Chip-when you figure out how to make the Marquee Tool run from LEFT to RIGHT let me know.


Title: Rembee Logic
Post by: chipstern on June 04, 2007, 11:59:06 PM
Don't buy your argument that somehow Lee and Balkman are interchangeable, and that therefore, one is GODLEN BAIT.  

Yes, Lee can play SF, but he is a step or two slow to guard quicker SFs, and is a more natural fit at PF, where his quickness and athleticism lets him compete.  

Balkman can guard SGs and PF, but he is a little slight to bang with PF, and is better suited to run with the gazelles as a SF.  

And what the heck, having surprised us all with his cool command and abillity to defend and penetrate, let is dub Mardy as trade bait, too.  

Trades are too often fool's gold.  And the Knicks' history of bad trades doth give me pause.  

(http://www.yossin.com/Alice/thinker.jpg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2007, 12:03:47 AM
(http://depts.washington.edu/neurosur/ptcare/images/ellenbogen/mri_5.jpg)

Working on it Dawg.  


(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2112790/2/istockphoto_2112790_left_straight_right.jpg)


Title: Left Vs. Right
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2007, 12:08:28 AM
(http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/night-of-the-hunter.jpg)

How's this, Dawg?


Title: Hey, Dawg
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2007, 12:25:39 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/05/sports/basketball/05wnba.html?ref=sports (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/05/sports/basketball/05wnba.html?ref=sports)

Lester, you down with these lads as part of our future coaching staff?  Or future head coach? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 05, 2007, 04:48:38 AM
Quote
see if we can get under the cap for '09, with (at least most of) our current young core and compete for Lebron, Bosh, Anthony
Except Cleveland, Toronto, and Denver can pay them more, respectively, than New York can.  The only way they leave in '09 is if they decide they cannot win a championship where they are and want to move on.  And frankly your getting under the cap is going to leave you with the type of team they wouldn't want to go to.  The only way you get one of those guys is going to be a sign and trade.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 05, 2007, 08:06:00 AM
Rembee - I've said that a Curry-Lee frontcourt doesn't work as well. But Lee could be dynamite off the bench (as Kid suggests). Question is whether his ego is willing to accept that.

Lesterdog - What could we get for Curry?


Title: Re: Rembee Logic
Post by: rembee on June 05, 2007, 09:30:22 AM
And what the heck, having surprised us all with his cool command and abillity to defend and penetrate, let is dub Mardy as trade bait, too.  

(http://www.yossin.com/Alice/thinker.jpg)

Why would we trade the only guy we are grooming at Point Guard?  Don't try to paint a rational argument as crazy talk.

Balkman and Lee may play different positions but they do the same thing.  They give you hustle and effort, offensive rebounding, and an opportunistic offense predicated on superb abilities to finish above the rim and run the break.  Taz may never be the rebounder Lee already is, but he will be close.  And I don't think Lee has Balkman's potential to be a true lock-down defender.  Sorry, thats key. 

We need a shot-blocker/ defender next to Curry.  Sure Lee could play off the bench, but  aren't we always talking about how we need to upgrade our starters?  Lee  is our most valuable trading chip to do that.  You aren't getting a quality starter without giving.

As Chip always says, its just chin music.  If I'm Isiah I'm not actively looking to trade Lee, and I see him as part of the core right now.  But it wouldn't take an all-star to pry him from me either.  Say we were offered Andris Biedrins.  Just to throw that out there as an example.  You would turn that down?  I wouldn't.


Title: Re: Untouchable
Post by: rembee on June 05, 2007, 10:31:52 AM
Figures you'd want to trade the only three guys I want to keep.

Then ditch slow learner.

Unless we somehow ditch "slow learner" for another dominant scorer, you could say Lee+Balkman don't work either.  You aren't going to succeed with a front-court of three offensively challenged players.

Again, we need starters.  Curry is a starter, potentially an all-star starter.  I can see Balkman starting with another defensive specialist at the 4.  If we keep Lee that would mean he is a 6th man.  Would he accept that role?  It’s a question.

Curry-Balkman-Lee could work if Lee develops a reliable jumper and Balkman evolves into a top help-defender.  I'm not even saying this couldn't happen, either.  Barring a trade that makes sense for us (or Frye stepping up) this may be what we go with.


Title: Re: Rembee Logic
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2007, 10:41:46 AM
And what the heck, having surprised us all with his cool command and abillity to defend and penetrate, let is dub Mardy as trade bait, too.  

(http://www.yossin.com/Alice/thinker.jpg)

Why would we trade the only guy we are grooming at Point Guard?  Don't try to paint a rational argument as crazy talk.

Balkman and Lee may play different positions but they do the same thing.  They give you hustle and effort, offensive rebounding, and an opportunistic offense predicated on superb abilities to finish above the rim and run the break.  Taz may never be the rebounder Lee already is, but he will be close.  And I don't think Lee has Balkman's potential to be a true lock-down defender.  Sorry, thats key. 

We need a shot-blocker/ defender next to Curry.  Sure Lee could play off the bench, but  aren't we always talking about how we need to upgrade our starters?  Lee  is our most valuable trading chip to do that.  You aren't getting a quality starter without giving.

As Chip always says, its just chin music.  If I'm Isiah I'm not actively looking to trade Lee, and I see him as part of the core right now.  But it wouldn't take an all-star to pry him from me either.  Say we were offered Andris Biedrins.  Just to throw that out there as an example.  You would turn that down?  I wouldn't.

Re:  ways to improve the starting five

Sure, you could deal Lee.  That would actually be quite easy.  But why take the easy way when a little extra work might give you a starter without dealing Lee?

Let teams ask for him.  Who knows - a dela might, just MIGHT pop up that you have to do.  But acrtively shopping Lee for a former All Star should not be Plan A.


Title: Re: Rembee Logic
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 05, 2007, 10:51:54 AM

But acrtively shopping Lee for a former All Star should not be Plan A.
[/quote]

Good point. I guess it becomes more difficult when we say who the incoming player in. Kobe is a no-brainer. But what about KG? Rashard? Jermaine? Vince? Rasheed?

I think the last two are definitely not worth giving up Lee. I could justify the first three, although I am torn about how well Jermaine fits with Eddy (as well as his injury history).

How much would it cost to get Rasheed? He doesn't make much sense for this team unless we also get Rashard Lewis.


Title: Re: Hey, Dawg
Post by: lesterdog on June 05, 2007, 11:03:28 AM
Lester, you down with these lads as part of our future coaching staff?  Or future head coach? 

Don't taunt me. Yeah, I really want 4 ex-piston coaches. Pistons embodied everything I hate. Whiney Bullies, the worst kind. I like 'em tough without the whine. Knick style pre zeek. Oakman style. Dumars was cool though.

Rembee - I've said that a Curry-Lee frontcourt doesn't work as well. But Lee could be dynamite off the bench (as Kid suggests). Question is whether his ego is willing to accept that.
Lesterdog - What could we get for Curry?

Well I'm clearly minority, but I like Lee and Curry on the floor together. That combo was part of the more inspiring ball we played last year.
I think Lee makes Curry better.
But, if you insist, maybe something like Childress-Pachulia-#11 pick for Slow Learner.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2007, 11:43:32 AM
I think you can be a pretty good defensive team without blocking a ton of shots. You will need to get steals and draw charges and keep the opposition shooting below their average. We have players who  already do these things at three positions, in Q, Balk, Mardy, and Steph (last year). Curry needs a lot of work on this since his position is the anchor for the D. Lee I believe could do this at PF though he would be sacrificing focus on the defensive glass for focus on helping and closing out his man. I do think he needs to find a better balance between the two. Everyone mentioned here except Curry also pushes in transition and makes plays (though not necessarily shots) in the half court. More importantly, Q, Balk, Mardy and Lee all worked hard on the floor last year. If they can maintain or raise their level of heart and hustle it sets a GREAT tone for our team. I'd have to add in Malik though he is less on the level of competition skillwise and bodywise than the other guys. I'm willing to give Curry and Crawford a chance because each can carry the offence singlehandedly for long stretches - a rare and wonderful thing. N8 is in the same mold but has a smaller impact. Want to wait for more info on Randolph Morris and think Cato is a good fit a t back up 5 for the next 2 or 3 seasons. Everyone else can,and if they have any return value should, dangle. Thats both JJs, Frye, Francis. Thats two bad signings a too too stupid trade and a homegrown high pick (did I just get homegrown and high into the same sentence? Shows you where my head is at this morning) 4 players  I would gladly send packing for roster spots, not even draft picks - roster spots (Hodge, DijonThompson, and Elton Brown could all be had together for less than a JJ.

By the way if you are signed for a JJ (new term for full MLE) you can quit after 2 years and live comfortably for the rest of you life on the interest. For two years on the Francis nipple (slurp slurp), all the little Lesters, Lovas, and Kidds who are not yet even twinkles can already retire. Ain't sport grand?


Title: Re: Rembee Logic
Post by: rembee on June 05, 2007, 11:49:16 AM
Childress is injured and don't talk about Zaza.  He's about as good a defender/rebounder as Curry.  I suppose the #11 has some value but still, no deal.

But acrtively shopping Lee for a former All Star should not be Plan A.

No kiiding, who said it should be?  In fact I think my threshold for trading Lee is a lot higher than Biz's.  I'm not looking to trade Lee for KG or O'Neal.  Maybe Rashard.  I mentioned Andris Biedrins which is perhaps totally unrealistic but at least he is the type of player we need.


Title: Rembee's Logic
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2007, 12:28:35 PM
WOW!

After all of that impassioned reasoning, and who would we trade David Lee for? 

Andris Biedrins.   ???

I am going to try and be cool. 

You got it, Rembee. 

When Lee went down, teams were able to cheat on Curry.  How is Andris just the type of player we need.  Kindly explain how on any level he is an upgrade on Lee, let alone Channing Frye? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: tysonnnyc on June 05, 2007, 12:46:21 PM
I'm in agreement with kid in that I envision Lee as a 6th or 7th man... similar to a Rodman/Salley type of role player on those old Piston teams.  I also agree with kid when he says you hold onto those role players - the ones you identify being part of the final puzzle.

The way I see it, Collins, Lee, Balkman and Curry are building blocks... Curry and Collins are starters when this team is contending.  Balkman could be an eventual starter, assuming we don't trade for Rashard (I'm not a big fan of Rashard - we don't need more guys who don't defend).  Lee is a big time game changer/impact player off the bench.

What I'd like to see the Knicks do is somehow use the other pieces to nab a starting 4 who defends without giving up Lee and Balkman.  Any combination of Frye, Crawford, Nate, Malik, James and Francis can all go.  None of these guys is an answer to anything.

The Knicks also need a shot-blocker and a sniper - fill one of these holes via the 23rd pick. 

If Francis is not moved before or during the upcoming season we will be looking at him and Steph both entering the final year of their contracts this time next season.  Then we have decisions - let them expire in hopes of being players for Lebron, Wade etc. or use them as trade chips if it looks like none of the big free agents will be on the move.

We have to keep an eye towards 08-09 and find a way to ADD to the core of Curry, Lee, Balkman and Mardy.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: tysonnnyc on June 05, 2007, 12:48:59 PM
Btw, I forgot to mention Jared Jeffries.  He can go too. 

Correction, he MUST go.


Title: Re: Rembee's Logic
Post by: bodiddley on June 05, 2007, 01:24:02 PM
WOW!
 How is Andris just the type of player we need.  Kindly explain how on any level he is an upgrade on Lee, let alone Channing Frye? 
Chip, do you watch other teams play?
Biedrins scored and boarded like Lee (9.5 & 9.3 in 29 minutes, w/ 60% on FG).
The Buzzsaw (my knickname for him) is also 3 inches taller than Lee, three years younger, and has freakishly long arms.  He looks and plays like AK47's younger (taller) brother.  Biedrins just turned 21, defends hard and averaged 1.66 blocks per.  He doesn't need the ball, can defend Centers or PF's, and is an excellent on putbacks.

Basically, he's a taller, younger David Lee, who also happens to defend and block shots.  Only drawbacks are that Biedrins is a bit foul-prone for now, which he should improve with experience.  And he can't shoot FT's.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 05, 2007, 02:22:18 PM
Well, can't add anything to that.

It’s a fantasy anyway, we have less of a shot at Biedrins than we do KG.  Just using him as an example of the kind of player we need to be looking for, and the kind of player I would be willing to trade Lee for.

Jermaine O'Neal need not apply.


Title: RemBeeBop
Post by: chipstern on June 05, 2007, 02:33:48 PM
God bless, homes.  Andres has his points, but I prefer Lee.  Much prefer Lee.  I think he has more upside and has made more significant strides in upgrading all aspects of his game.  Was almost as lame a FT shooter coming in as Andres, and now he hovers around 80%. 

We agree to disagree. 

Rasheed Wallace speculation is interesting.  What, however, might the cost be?  [Gulp]. 

Lots of posturing all over the place.  Wouldn't be surprised if there were no deals made.  And if Isiah went to camp with the horses he has in the stable. 

Question?  Is Randolph Morris a center or a power forward?  Or both. 



Title: Re: Rembee Logic
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2007, 03:02:46 PM
Childress is injured and don't talk about Zaza.  He's about as good a defender/rebounder as Curry.  I suppose the #11 has some value but still, no deal.

But acrtively shopping Lee for a former All Star should not be Plan A.

No kiiding, who said it should be?  In fact I think my threshold for trading Lee is a lot higher than Biz's.  I'm not looking to trade Lee for KG or O'Neal.  Maybe Rashard.  I mentioned Andris Biedrins which is perhaps totally unrealistic but at least he is the type of player we need.


How about we look for the NEXT Bierdrins?  Are we even in the mix for that type player?  Usually, I mean - under Zeke.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 05, 2007, 03:22:46 PM
We need a starting PF
We need someone to shoot from distance.
We need cap flexibility in two years.

I like the notion of trading for Rasheed Wallace and his 2yr contract.

I'd give up Crawford and a JJ.  Maybe add Frye or N8 or Morris to sweeten the deal.  Try to also pry away Detroit's draft pick.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 05, 2007, 03:31:53 PM
Hey Kam - Craw, Frye, Jeffries for Sheed and the #15 sounds great and does wonders for our cap in two years...but what would Detroit want with Craw when they have Rip? And isn't JJ Slim just a crappier version of Tay Prince? I don't see the inclusion of Snacks helping out any.

Tyson - Nice post earlier today.

Prez Ike - I checked your website and there was no mention whatsoever of Aunt Jackie. And you call yourself a New York DJ????


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2007, 03:35:43 PM
You can't really believe Wallace wouldn't be extended.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 05, 2007, 03:54:33 PM
Biz I disagree that may be a good trade for Detroit I think what killed them this year and last was depth, after the starting five it was a significant drop off in talent and the starting five is getting older playing heavy minutes if they had a bench and Im not talking about Chris (jump on the bandwagon)Webber. That would be an upgrade to thier bench and then they can concentrate on keeping the core of starters together for another run.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 05, 2007, 03:57:30 PM
No Kid, you are right. Teams rarely "blow it up", because the experiences have not been that successful. Chicago is the most obvious example, but Memphis and Orlando  can also be considered case studies.

Then again, so can Portland....

But, yes, Detroit will probably stay the course with both Sheed and Billups.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2007, 04:06:02 PM
Sheed and Delfino for Frye Jefferies and Rose. Monitary and statistical wash. We get a wonderbar compliment to Curry and Lee on the front line and a young wing who can stroke or slash. We abandon ship on a young player with great potential in Frye who can run pick and pops till the cows come home with Chauncy and Rip and will have Maxiel to get his so soft back. Jeffries gives front court depth and all three are good character no headache hard workers. The fiscal pain is JJskinny for two years beyond Sheed and Malik and not for a huge number in the scope of the deal. Guys like Rose and Jefferies are good plug ins for a team that will loose Davis and doesn't know what it will get out of Webber over 82 games. Can Draft offence with 15th and 27th picks.

We have
STARTERS
Curry
Wallace
Balkman
Qrich
Marbury
BENCH
Lee
Delfino
Collins
Crawford
N8

With Morris, Snacks and 23 waiving towels... And Francis on a peacekeeping mission to stop the Genocide in Darfur




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 05, 2007, 04:11:56 PM
Det will have

STARTERS
Webber
McDyess
Prince
Hamilton
Billups

BENCH
Frye
Maxiel
Jefferies
Dupree
Murray
Hunter
15
27
Johnson


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 05, 2007, 04:34:49 PM
If I understand kiid correctly, he means that Wallace would be extended here should we get him in a trade that clears up our longer-term contracts (he isn’t due for an extension from the Pistons for another year).

If I have that right…No, I do not believe the Knicks would squander new found cap space on a declining 35 yr old, not with a delectable free-agent class coming up.

But to answer your point Biz…Detroit trading Wallace does not mean they are Blowing Things Up.  They would still have Billups, Prince and Hamilton, and if they trade Rasheed for a productive player they have to believe that they could still compete.  Depending on how down they are on him, they could even view the trading of Wallace as addition by subtraction.  At least that is the current (and probably inaccurate) speculation.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 05, 2007, 05:28:31 PM
If I understand kiid correctly, he means that Wallace would be extended here should we get him in a trade that clears up our longer-term contracts (he isn’t due for an extension from the Pistons for another year).

If I have that right…No, I do not believe the Knicks would squander new found cap space on a declining 35 yr old, not with a delectable free-agent class coming up.


But if we lose a longterm deal in the trade like Jeffries or Crawford then extending Rasheed (for say 3yrs 24mil) wouldn't be so bad.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 05, 2007, 05:34:45 PM
Rembee - that makes more sense, as for the life of me I cannot figure out what they could get for Billups in some sort of radical transformation that would make sense for Detroit. The teams that desparately need Billups wouldn't seem to be in a position to offer too much to Detroit:

Houston, Dallas are not good trade partners.
Lakers could offer Billups, but that might be a lateral move for LA.
Portland maybe too young to make the move for Billups.
Milwaukee is in the same division

Orlando and Atlanta are possibilities. If Dumars was so inclined, he could quite possibly extract Frye & Francis from NY in a trade for Sheed (and, let's say, the early Detroit pick) and then swap Billups to Atlanta for the rights to the #11 pick after the fact, Childress and a nice trade exception.

Francis / Rip / Tay / Dice / CWebb (presuming he comes back)
with Nazr, Frye, Childress, Delfino, the #11 and the #27 off the bench. Presume the latter two are Acie Law and Aaron Gray (more or less as per draftexpress). Plus there is the trade exception for a deadline deal. Detroit stays competitive and gets much younger.

I'd say it could work but that frontline is terribly creaky and weak defensively. So, I'm back to they keep both Billups and Sheed and try adding Mo Pete via free agency or something.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 05, 2007, 06:04:50 PM
For what its worth,

I caught a Frank Isola interview on the radio today.  I think it was with Mike Missenelli on Espn 1050am.  Mike doesn't want Rasheed but Isola was talking about how when Isiah first got here, his top two targets were AI and Rasheed.  Isiah likes Rasheed and would welcome someone with playoff experience on the team as Jamal Crawford and Eddy Curry are currently leading the NBA in players who've played the longest without making the playoffs.  Isola thinks Rasheed started acting up in Detroit because he wants to be traded.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2007, 06:44:21 PM
Right.

He's never acted up anywhere else.  :)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 06, 2007, 10:26:25 AM
I Like Sheed don't get me wrong but once again this does not seem like the answer to our problem Are we in the business of taking everyones headache to try and make us better, I hope not-- the only headache I would take on at this time is ROn ROn because I feel he instantly makes us better, now if we can somehow prye Maxiell from detroit whom I see as a much better fit next to curry shheeeiittt I even like DIOP next to Curry. My fantasy pickup to play next to Curry is Camby I think he is the perfect specimen to cover ALL of Currys deficencies but he's fragile.  The knicks do need to make moves this summer but I hope we don't trade just for the sake of trading I want us to trade so we can get BETTER not for headlines. MY opinion  No to Sheed, No to Oneal, Yes to Garnett, No to AK47 Yes to Boozer, Yes to Udonis, Yes to Maxiell.


Title: Peja
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 06, 2007, 10:43:34 AM
Given that we need a shooter and that he has the worst contract in the league, I'm surprised noone in the media has suggested trading for Peja.

I don't actually want him, I just saw the New Orleans write-up on draftexpress and started thinking about Tyson Chandler. Despite their failures in Chicago, I think that Chandler is ideal next to Curry now that both have improved. In fact, I'm a bigger fan of Chandler than Curry (then and now). Jaqd - you mention Camby, Chandler is the younger version. NO won't be shopping him, and if they did, Peja would have to go for cap relief (e.g. they would want Frye, Francis and Malik for Peja and Chandler...even then they might want more).

But Peja's contract is brutal. He'll be earning 16.5 million 3 years from now. For a guy with a history of poor conditioning, poor playoff performances and back injuries, that's a terrible investment. Which is to say, only a matter of time before we acquire him, gentlemen....

Seriously, good thing Isiah is at least talking about the cap every now and again.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 11:11:37 AM
I Like Sheed don't get me wrong but once again this does not seem like the answer to our problem Are we in the business of taking everyones headache to try and make us better, I hope not-- the only headache I would take on at this time is ROn ROn because I feel he instantly makes us better, now if we can somehow prye Maxiell from detroit whom I see as a much better fit next to curry shheeeiittt I even like DIOP next to Curry. My fantasy pickup to play next to Curry is Camby I think he is the perfect specimen to cover ALL of Currys deficencies but he's fragile.  The knicks do need to make moves this summer but I hope we don't trade just for the sake of trading I want us to trade so we can get BETTER not for headlines. MY opinion  No to Sheed, No to Oneal, Yes to Garnett, No to AK47 Yes to Boozer, Yes to Udonis, Yes to Maxiell.

You contradict yourself saying don't trade for headaches, then in the same breath you're trading for Artest.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 06, 2007, 12:26:20 PM
No I didn't contradict myself what I said was the ONLY headcase I would trade for is Ron Artest because I feel he fills a need for this team. The rest are redundant I think Frye is just as good and have a higher ceiling then Sheed, JO and AK.  We should only acquire these guys if they're on the cheap. I never understand why more teams don't dig into the NBDL and scoop up that raw, hungry talent thats ballin in that league. I bet we can find the perfect compliment to Curry in that league and it won't cost a fortune.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 12:41:37 PM
I think Frye is just as good and have a higher ceiling then Sheed, JO and AK.

Oh. That explains a lot.  I think you are in the minority with your view.

Also, calling Rasheed Wallace a headache would require calling Ron Artest a brain tumor.  At least Rasheed has managed to keep himself in the NBA, to win a TITLE, and to compete for Conference Finals with teams in different conferences as a major piece to their puzzle. 

He brings with him something none of the other guys mentioned possess:   An outside jumper out to three (and we have few guys who can spread the floor for EC), an inside-outside game (he isn't competing with EC for the post) AND a contract that gives us flexibility.


Title: Why?
Post by: chipstern on June 06, 2007, 12:45:51 PM
Rasheed would be ideal if he were 28 or even 30. but he is going on 33.  What the fuck, are we challenging Cleveland in the ECF next season.  

Tyson Chandler?  Love him.  An excellent complement to Eddyin Chicago...still think they blew it iin giving up on both of them. We ain't getting Tyson.  Why would New Orleans even think of giving him away?  Marcus Camby?  No chance.  

Again, I am against willy-nilly offloading our youth in big dumper trades some of you are proposing.  

Oddly, I am in semi-accord with Kiid and Lester.  Kiid sees us needing to re-vamp the 1&2, and I believe both he and Lester are jiggy with Mardy as a building block.  

I think Isiah is viewing Steph and Stevie as expiring contracts, and as players to be supplanted at the end of their contracts.  I think he would trade either of them if the right deal came up.  

Likewise most of the team except Eddy.  

I am hoping that Josh McRoberts, Tiago Splitter or Sean Williams is there for us at #23, as I would rather find a big in the draft than trade all of our young guys for Rasheed, whose defense and shot-blocking and rebounding and long-range game would certainly complement Eddy.  But trading youth for age?  Come on.  

If none of these guys is available, then I would be looking at Marco Belinelli [6-6 200 SG Italy 1986], Arron Afflalo [6-5 215 SG UCLA Jr.], Marcus Williams [6-7 207 SG Arizona So.] or Morris Almond [6-6 214 SG Rice Sr.].  

I just don't know how realistic it is to pull off a deal for this team, and rather than make a deal for a deal's sake, I would just as soon stand pat.  

I would love Rashard, but don't know if Seattle wants to pull the trigger on that.  

I think Jermaine is a pipe dream.  Someone mentioned Boozer.  Good luck.  Garnett?  Tell me about the rabbits, George.  

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15209 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=15209)

Kiid, what do you think of Almond?  A senior and a big-time scorer.  Follow thelink to his 2006-2007 stat line.  Pretty friggin' impressive.  A couple of games where he drained 18-20 free throws.  great stroke from long range.  

C: Curry, James, Cato

PF-C: Frye, Morris

PF-SF: Lee, Jeffries, Rose

SF-SG: Richardson, Balkman

SG: Crawford, Robinson

PG-SG: Collins, Marbury, Francis

Thirteen players.  Cato likely roster player as practice-emergency-Eddy mentor.  

Cannot have the revolving door we had the past two seasons.  Need to tighten and settle down rotations, to thin the herd, and get better balance.  

All of this conjecture is fascinating, but I am utterly baffled as to how isiah re-shuffles this deck if at all.  And most of the trade talk, including my own, seems very...dubious.  Isiah has his work cut out for him.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 12:49:21 PM
What the fuck, are we challenging Cleveland in the ECF next season. 

With a motivated to prove the world wrong Rasheed Wallace next to Eddy Curry.

Why not?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 06, 2007, 12:51:42 PM
Frye and Sheed are similar in terms of offense and rebounding.  Frye's jumper may not have the range, but when he has confidence in it its at Sheed's level, and could be used to spread the floor with EC.  Too often, though, Frye would pass up open jumpers last year.

Sheed gives us the gritty defense and shot-blocking that Frye may never provide, though.  And experience in the big dance.

No, Chip, we aren't competing for the EC championship next year, but it sure would be nice if some of our guys got some first round experience, no?

Rasheed gets us that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 01:08:10 PM
You guys saw Rasheed make game winner in the playoffs.  You know what he is.  A STUD.  33 yrs old, but he's better than what we got now.;

We don't know if CFrye will ever have the balls of a Wallace.  Frye has made one big shot in his career, and that was to send the game into OT against the Pistons.  Frye is reluctant to shoot.  Rasheed will shoot.  Rasheed is man enough to deal with the scrutiny if he missed.  I'd rather have the guy that misses than the guy thats afraid to shoot.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 01:15:01 PM
What the fuck, are we challenging Cleveland in the ECF next season. 

With a motivated to prove the world wrong Rasheed Wallace next to Eddy Curry.

Why not?

Because there is no team in this team. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 06, 2007, 01:15:48 PM
Sheed? Vince?
Geez, we missed out on these guys last time (when many here didn't want them), and now there's interest?  Color me baffled.

I've seen Almond referred to as the best shooter in the draft.
Arron Afflalo has dropped into the 2nd round on draftexpress.
Not sure why, but it might have something to do with the queer spelling of both of his names.

Draft express has the following rumor:

"The rumor emerging is that Portland can secure the #11 pick belonging to Atlanta, in return for Jarrett Jack if they so desire."

Makes sense.  Atlanta needs a point and doesn't need another 6'6" - 6'10" yute.
DE has Acie Law available at #11, but Jack defends and takes care of the ball.
Would likely mean that Portland will give the ball to Sergio Rodriguez.  Portland is still in the process of going young.  Atlanta needs to start getting results from its youth.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 01:22:19 PM
"Kiid, what do you think of Almond?"

I think he'd have a chance at running with Mardy down the line.  Wingspan, stroke and hi bb IQ?  Cool.

Knicks would not play him enough.  That would bother me.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 01:34:36 PM
Nate the Nut, B Roy and some other guy we might want to deal up for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHjRxsM6pdQ&NR=1


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 01:36:08 PM
Sheed? Vince?
Geez, we missed out on these guys last time (when many here didn't want them), and now there's interest?  Color me baffled.

I've seen Almond referred to as the best shooter in the draft.
Arron Afflalo has dropped into the 2nd round on draftexpress.
Not sure why, but it might have something to do with the queer spelling of both of his names.

Draft express has the following rumor:

"The rumor emerging is that Portland can secure the #11 pick belonging to Atlanta, in return for Jarrett Jack if they so desire."

Makes sense.  Atlanta needs a point and doesn't need another 6'6" - 6'10" yute.
DE has Acie Law available at #11, but Jack defends and takes care of the ball.
Would likely mean that Portland will give the ball to Sergio Rodriguez.  Portland is still in the process of going young.  Atlanta needs to start getting results from its youth.

A) ATL can just draft fellow GA Tech alum Javaris Crittendon.
B) Rasheed for two years. Complement to EC.  Why confused?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 06, 2007, 01:47:50 PM
What the fuck, are we challenging Cleveland in the ECF next season. 

With a motivated to prove the world wrong Rasheed Wallace next to Eddy Curry.

Why not?
You know, Sheed couldn't get by Cleveland with Billups, Prince, Jefferson.... That's why not.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:06:28 PM
FIRST OF ALL:

CLEVELAND is luckier than good.  Beating the punchless Wiz (sans Arenas and Butler)?   The center-less NETS with Vince with a foot already out the door?  A Detroit team without their defensive identity (Big Ben and LB) .  Cleveland has a bunch of aging players: Hughes, Snow, Ilgauskus.  Gooden has regressed.  Varejao is nice.  Gibson might be a flash in the pan..  Shannon Brown TBD.

Secondly, Detroit didn't have a post offense featuring someone who commands double-teams every single time.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 02:07:50 PM
Have fun with this one, Whisk.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:09:14 PM
And Rasheed done beat the CAVS plenty.  He has won everywhere he has gone.  Don't take your little underdog team and make me root against them.  I like the underdog.  BUT when their fans beat their chest over nothing, well... now i kinda want to see them swept.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:10:36 PM
By the way 'whisk',

Who is Jefferson?

Kid:

Shaddup


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:17:31 PM
Whiskey, Chip, Kid... anyone else in love with the Cavs....

The Cavs roster isn't stocked with so-so players with bright futures. A lot of these cats are as good as they'll ever be. Larry Hughes, Ilgauskas, Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones won't be making leaps. Drew Gooden's scoring is down 3.3 points per game from his career high in 2004-05. And let's not get too carried away about Daniel Gibson yet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/070606&sportCat=nba (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=jones/070606&sportCat=nba)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 02:23:25 PM
Don't have to be in love with the Cavs (recall I was saying not to count Jersey out at 1-3) to know the limitations of Isiah's Knicks.

BTW - YES, Cavs have LBJ, but let's realize what they stressed from a coaching/GM standpoint.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 06, 2007, 02:25:07 PM
By the way 'whisk',

Who is Jefferson?

Kid:

Shaddup
My pet name for Rip Hamilton.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:30:29 PM
Cavs play Defense and have LBJ. Good enough in the East these days. They're like the Baltimore Ravens of the NBA when they had Lamal Lewis on offense and the rest of the team strength was in the O-line and Defense.

I see the CAVS as low hanging fruit.  Forget our beloved hometown Knicks... any team in the East (some with the right move or two, others as they stand today) could challenge for the ECF next year.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 06, 2007, 02:32:22 PM
FIRST OF ALL:

CLEVELAND is luckier than good.  Beating the punchless Wiz (sans Arenas and Butler)?   The center-less NETS with Vince with a foot already out the door?  A Detroit team without their defensive identity (Big Ben and LB) .  Cleveland has a bunch of aging players: Hughes, Snow, Ilgauskus.  Gooden has regressed.  Varejao is nice.  Gibson might be a flash in the pan..  Shannon Brown TBD.

Secondly, Detroit didn't have a post offense featuring someone who commands double-teams every single time.
They had the second best record in the East, you know.  "Luck" so often translates into talent when viewed by the jealous.   Did the Knicks even sniff the playoffs?  You think Rasheed Wallace is going to get them up to 50 wins?

 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:35:29 PM
Whiskey,

No. Rasheed alone wont.  Rasheed with Eddy Curry might just be the most dominant tandem in the East next year.  Either way, they'll be a playoff team with the right guy next to Curry.  The right guy happens to have to be a pretty special player... but those players are available if you want to pay the price for them.  I see RW in Detroit at a crossroads.  I'm not sold on him coming back.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 02:38:23 PM
Jealous?

You're coming onto a Knick board buddy puffing out your chest.  I'm merely giving you the bums rush.     :) 

I do like and root for LBJ.  Especially against those dastardly forces of evil.  I'm speaking of course about ...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 03:13:57 PM
Whiskey,

No. Rasheed alone wont.  Rasheed with Eddy Curry might just be the most dominant tandem in the East next year.  Either way, they'll be a playoff team with the right guy next to Curry.  The right guy happens to have to be a pretty special player... but those players are available if you want to pay the price for them.  I see RW in Detroit at a crossroads.  I'm not sold on him coming back.

ARE YOU PLAYING LEE AT THE 3?

BECAUSE YOU KNOW SHEED AND EDDY WILL BE THE WORST REBOUNDING 4-5 EVER KNOWN TO THIS LEAGUE.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 03:16:07 PM
AND..........................

Many of us just don't like that you're..........


























bankin on a bad guy


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 06, 2007, 03:20:06 PM
Jealous?

You're coming onto a Knick board buddy puffing out your chest.  I'm merely giving you the bums rush.     :) 

I do like and root for LBJ.  Especially against those dastardly forces of evil.  I'm speaking of course about ...
Puffing my chest?  I merely noted that thinking Wallace was going to get you past Cleveland when a much better team with Wallace couldn't was not a realistic assessment of your team.

Rasheed is going to be 34 before the season starts next year.  That's a year older than the "aging" Ilgauskus and six years older than the "aging" Hughes.  Without the surrounding talent that Detroit offered, is he going to be as good offensively?

With Wallace, the Knicks would still be no match for Cleveland, Chicago, Miami (assuming Wade is healthy) or Washington with Butler and Arenas healthy.  I think the Knicks need more work.  Curry is a nice building block, but I'd rather have Dwight Howard, for one, or Chris Bosh for another.

Brownie points for naming the Eastern Conference team with the best record against the West, at 19-10.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 03:39:09 PM
About 12 of the wins vs nonplayoff West teams


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: liquidsilver on June 06, 2007, 03:42:39 PM
What was the Knicks record against the West?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 03:44:33 PM
11-19

More losses vs West patsies


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 03:50:38 PM
SA

Portland, Minny, Memphis, Seattle,

SA again

Sac, Clippers, G State, G State, Clips

Lakers, Lakers, NO,

HOU, Sac, Memphis,

UTAH

Minny

Not a great lot.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 04:38:47 PM
Once again whiskey, I'm not concened the Knicks are going to have to "go through" cleveland in the years to come until your GM brings in some surrounding talent.  Why should LBJ stay in Cleveland if he is good enough to take any team to the Finals. 

Which team has more talent to surround LBJ?  The Knicks or the Cavs? 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 04:39:43 PM
David Lee would be the 6th man or traded in the deal that gets us our Stud 4.  This aint second grade kid, remember?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 04:43:24 PM
Once again whiskey, I'm not concened the Knicks are going to have to "go through" cleveland in the years to come until your GM brings in some surrounding talent.  Why should LBJ stay in Cleveland if he is good enough to take any team to the Finals. 

Which team has more talent to surround LBJ?  The Knicks or the Cavs? 

I don't know - let's start with.........




The white center cant be equal to the black one, can he?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 04:57:18 PM
Rasheed aint a bad guy. He's just drawn that way.  The portrayal in the media is of this out of control snarling mean black man.  But you could say that about Kurt Thomas a few years back.  Different guys have different levels of self-control on the court.  That doesn't make you a bad guy.  It means you care.

Say what you will about Rasheed, he wants to win.  He knows how to win, and has won in two different places.  He's an old lion.  But Rasheed in EC's ear everyday spurring him on aint a bad thing.

I'm tired of what passes for an argument sometimes about players.  Rasheed and the Pistons beat the CAVS last year and now we're hearing how he isn't good enough to beat the CAVS.  I mean what?  Two weeks ago Detroit was up 2-0 and people had them in the finals.  No love lost between Rasheed and Flip. If Flip returns i doubt Rasheed will be happy.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 06, 2007, 05:22:43 PM
He's won in 2 places

LOL

What, don't wanna count PAL?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 06, 2007, 05:35:58 PM
What three teams has Rasheed played for in the NBA?

Right, you forgot ATL.

And I saw fit not to mention them.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2007, 12:23:09 AM
And the Bullets too! My how we forget. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 07, 2007, 09:25:42 AM
lebron is ready to run wild tonight....

Go King James

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRhcUnrUEiA


Title: What does this mean?
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 09:30:30 AM
Alan Hahn from Newsday:

"In making my usual calls and checking around about what the Knicks may be up to on several fronts (not just trades and the draft, wink-wink) I have noticed in my notes that more than once I've been told by different people that "we'll know more in about a month" regarding the direction of the Knicks in the offseason.

Hmmm..."

That's not very helpful....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 07, 2007, 09:44:34 AM
Biz Im taking that to mean Isaih is probably shopping the draft pick and if he doesn't get any good bids for it he'd just draft Williams and put his shotblocking ,weed smoking, rebound grabbing, offensive putback-ing ass next to curry and trade Frye and Jeffries to sacto for ol Ron Ron.

PG  Steph
SG  Craw
SF  Ron ROn
PF  WIlliams
C    Curry

that works for me


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2007, 10:17:41 AM
Wouldnt be boring


Title: Draft
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 10:44:48 AM
jaqd - Apparently the Knicks were not among the teams that went and watched S.Williams work out recently. Marc Berman doesn't write an article without mentioning Isiah's interest in Williams, and certainly the whole "gamblin' man" credo suggests someone like Williams, but I'm not so sure Isiah wants to coach any headcases, let alone two (Williams, Tru Warier).

Rembee was pushing for Daequan Cook a few months ago. That sounds like a high upside pick. So would Javaris, but he'll be gone by 23. Too bad if he is fixated on hitting a home run- although Isiah did nab Ariza, his real talent is finding role players that have fallen through the cracks (Collins, Lee, Balkman were all great value picks). In this draft, that might be Byars, Dudley, T.Green, maybe even Pruitt.

If Fernendez or Splitter falls to 23, would Isiah pass? It seems the Knicks have (unfortunately) sworn themselves off foreign players since the Weis debacle and before that the long-forgotten Turkcan fizzle.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2007, 11:10:10 AM
Don't sleep on Mirsad!


Title: Re: Draft
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2007, 11:34:03 AM
jaqd - Apparently the Knicks were not among the teams that went and watched S.Williams work out recently. Marc Berman doesn't write an article without mentioning Isiah's interest in Williams, and certainly the whole "gamblin' man" credo suggests someone like Williams, but I'm not so sure Isiah wants to coach any headcases, let alone two (Williams, Tru Warier).

Rembee was pushing for Daequan Cook a few months ago. That sounds like a high upside pick. So would Javaris, but he'll be gone by 23. Too bad if he is fixated on hitting a home run- although Isiah did nab Ariza, his real talent is finding role players that have fallen through the cracks (Collins, Lee, Balkman were all great value picks). In this draft, that might be Byars, Dudley, T.Green, maybe even Pruitt.

If Fernendez or Splitter falls to 23, would Isiah pass? It seems the Knicks have (unfortunately) sworn themselves off foreign players since the Weis debacle and before that the long-forgotten Turkcan fizzle.


Isiah was not here for Weis

If he is dead set against Euros, that cannot be the reason.

I don't think he rules Euros out totally, but he clearly favors a different type player.


Title: Must Love Euros
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2007, 11:44:22 AM
Cezary Trybanski.



Title: Re: Draft
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 11:47:05 AM
What I've heard, kid, is that the organisation as a whole was quite turned off of Euros following Mirsad/Fredercic in 99. Of course, if Isiah felt strongly he should be able to exercise his will. He was able to pass on Marcus Williams and live to tell, after all.

But my point is that while passing on Marquinhos or Ersan Ilayova  or Yaroslav Koralve seems to have been prudent thus far (any might yet blossom), I'd think that Splitter and Fernandez come far more game ready. Both, I believe, are 22, with top-level Spanish league experience. I assume Splitter won't fell far past the 15th or 16th pick, but Fernandez might be in the mix around our pick. Same with Belinelli, although he is a bit more of a project. I'd be quite intrigued if we ended up with any of the three.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 07, 2007, 12:41:18 PM
We drafted Lampe and Vujanic.  We looked at Nickoloz at camp last year.

Word from Grunwald is that they like Splitter but were weary of the buy-out situation.  We also need a shot-blocker if we are going to go with a big man and word is Splitter isn't one.

Isiah's type last few drafts have been defense oriented players ready to contribute right away.  Aren't a lot of European players that are going to fit that.  If we go with a jump-shooting guard in this draft, however (which I am rooting for) there are some options from over-seas.

Though I’d still take Cook, Almond or Law before them.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 07, 2007, 12:53:41 PM
Knick Draft Trivia:

Since Patrick Ewing was drafted in 1985, only two Knick draft picks have averaged over 10 points per game in their careers.  Name them.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 07, 2007, 12:56:39 PM
Channing Frye is one.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 07, 2007, 01:00:58 PM
Nice job.  I thought Frye might slip under the radar.
There's one more.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 01:01:17 PM
Action Jackson must be the other.


Thanks Rembee for pointing out my short memory on Euros. I'm wary of Almond, admittedly not having seen him play, because I've read that the other aspects of his game may hinder his ability to stay in the league. Mind you, Matt Carroll (former Knick camp invitee) and Jason Kapono have proven this year that if you can shoot exceptionally well you find a place in this league. Granted, Trajon Langdon couldn't...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 07, 2007, 01:02:37 PM
Nope.  Strickland.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 07, 2007, 01:16:58 PM
Rod Strickland, indeed.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 07, 2007, 01:31:08 PM
Amazing how poorly the Knicks have drafted in the past, due in some part of course to our being a solid playoff team for about 15 yrs.  Not that this is an excuse.

Meanwhile Frye, Lee and even Nate and Balkman (if they get the PT) all potential 10 ppg + players.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 07, 2007, 01:34:23 PM
From what I understand about Almond, he's expanded his game several times over his college career to adapt to newer larger roles. If its clear that he needs to defend to get on the floor my hunch is he will figure out how to get it done. He'll never be quick, but I think some of his defensive weakness stems from him conserving energy for the offensive end where he has had to carry his team for the last two years. I think Marcus Williams would be a better pick with a lower offensive ceiling but more support skills (lobs, boards, etc.), he'd also need work on D.

I wouldn't mind a Euro this year either even if we stashed him, Splitter, Belinelli or Fernandez.

Straw poll: which front court combo would you preffer to work with Curry?

Wallace
Balkman
with Lee off the bench

or

Lee
Artest
with Balkman off the bench

By the way, just got my road blue Balkman jersey. Will be wearing it draft night. No trading him now EVER



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 07, 2007, 01:35:09 PM
Yeah, it struck me that Frye is one of our best draft picks of the past 20 years.
Of course a number of years we traded our pick away.
Or in Isiah's case we've essentially traded down.


Title: Re: Draft
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2007, 02:33:31 PM
What I've heard, kid, is that the organisation as a whole was quite turned off of Euros following Mirsad/Fredercic in 99. Of course, if Isiah felt strongly he should be able to exercise his will. He was able to pass on Marcus Williams and live to tell, after all.

But my point is that while passing on Marquinhos or Ersan Ilayova  or Yaroslav Koralve seems to have been prudent thus far (any might yet blossom), I'd think that Splitter and Fernandez come far more game ready. Both, I believe, are 22, with top-level Spanish league experience. I assume Splitter won't fell far past the 15th or 16th pick, but Fernandez might be in the mix around our pick. Same with Belinelli, although he is a bit more of a project. I'd be quite intrigued if we ended up with any of the three.

Neither Belinelli nor Fernandez should be seen as a project

But again - any READY guard I'd like to have playing time for right away.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 02:34:04 PM
Bo - Wow, Frye as the best pick?

I think Frye is probably Isiah's fifth best pick as a Knick. I've put in italics who I wanted the Knicks to draft at the time:

1. Lee at #30 Chris Taft
2. Mardy at #29 Mardy Collins since we passed on Williams. Otherwise, Steve Novak
3. Ariza at #43 Romain Sato
4. Balkman at #20 Marcus Williams
5. Frye at #8 Danny Granger
6. Nate at #21 Jarrett Jack

I would have blown the Taft pick pretty badly, although I stand by my Granger and Jack picks.

(p.s. Lee + Mardy + two years of Malik for Nazr is a quite the haul, in hindsight)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 07, 2007, 02:49:35 PM
All this draft talk…

I can almost smell the Spam on Emann’s grill now.

As for me, I’ll be having the usual…grilled cheese prepared on a radiator.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 07, 2007, 03:55:42 PM
Damn I hope Mardy, Lee,Balkman and Jeffries are all somewhere right now on the court just shooting thousands and thousands of jumpers from all angles on the court.  If they all develop jumpers (mardy out to the 3 point line) we can very well stay pat and allow our boys to grow inhouse. Just imagine If Frye and Curry are working out together Curry's showing Frye his post moves and Frye in turn is showing Curry the correct form to hit a 15 footer. Marbury got N8 by the tip of his ears explaining to him that this city don't tolerate no boneheads showing him how to change his image and explaining his new love for defense.  If all this was going on all would be right in knickland.  I CAN DREAM GODDAMMIT


Title: Draft Night...
Post by: connectivity999 on June 07, 2007, 04:02:08 PM
Macey lampe......lampe......lampe......lampe......lampe......

what a joke!  Knicks fans wanted someone good anybody!

The crowd went crazy over some 6'11 Dufus that never played a single game...

Isiahs picks have been better...

90% of Rookies need 4 years to develop, so if its help you need it ussually will come from a veteran player... And Vets cost money...which we are way over the cap on...Plus after all that LB stuff we dont have the green light from the Dolans anymore. to buy at will...I havent seen anything but the new college kid we picked up on a steal. 

Knicks do the right thing and make a few veteran trades this off season...
forget the rookies.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 07, 2007, 04:47:47 PM
What Fernandez are you guys talking about? Rudy Fernandez? I'm watching him play right now. Pretty good player, good scorer and passer. He just took a bad fall on a spectacular dunk, hopefully nothing major, but he's out of the game.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2007, 06:42:13 PM
Wow!  That's what I cal up to the minute scouting!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: ericmoto on June 07, 2007, 08:18:41 PM
After his rookie season, Frye didn't know what he needed to be doing since the coaching situation was rough and he had come off of a good year.  So to show that he was doing something, he hit the weight room and gained a bunch of muscle that may or may not have changed his body enough to contribute to the slow sophmore start.

Frye has shown that he's willing to work.  Remember his quote on draft night about living in the gym and shooting free throws at 2am if they wanted that?  I feel like now that there are clear holes and roles on this team, he very likely may be working on something that will make his presence more felt next year.  Aside from David Lee, I am hesitant to give anyone on the roster more credit for offseason work.

I know that it's just summer fun to trade the whole roster, and I was also disappointed at the rudderless year he just submitted, but maybe Frye isn't a guy we ABSOLUTELY need to be running out of town right now.  Just saying.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2007, 08:36:57 PM
We have actually heard Isiah say he probably wouldn't be involved with adding a big name to the roster.  HE said he would try, but that it was not likely.  I don't see him making a trade of Frye UNLESS its for a big namer. So therefore i conclude the probability of Frye (or anyone) being traded this summer to be slim.

Likely we stand pat. The Francis situation and the draft pick are the only change agents on the horizon.

3 weeks and counting til we see the first change.


Title: Combine
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 08:49:05 PM
Durant declared the worst athlete in the draft

Conley Jr impresses with his physique and athleticism

Corey Brewer benched his own weight numerous times 11 times

Jared Jordan, Julian Wright and Ali Traore failed to impress

Josh McRoberts showed up with 13.7% body fat (of greater concern, apparently he is rumoured to have a bad back that precludes weight lifting)

DJ Strawberry ranked #1 athletically

Greg Oden is fast as hell for a big man

http://www.draftexpress.com/measurements.php?year=2007&sort2=&sort=13

Keep in mind this stuff is panned by a lot of analysts. For example, Renaldo Balkman was quite middle of the pack last year, and Tyrus Thomas was outside of the top 20.


Title: Re: Combine
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 07, 2007, 08:55:19 PM
This is interesting - from draft express last year:

Balkman’s game is not much unlike current NBA player Trevor Ariza’s. They have the same knack for rebounding, the same long and athletic physical attributes, the same energy on the floor, and the same raw perimeter game. Ariza is a better ball-handler than Balkman, and has recently developed a larger semblance of a mid-range jumper, but otherwise, Balkman could play a very similar role for an NBA team that Ariza does, providing energy in the passing lanes and on the break while contributing some slashing and rebounding offensively.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 07, 2007, 09:04:07 PM
Balkman is the better ball handler and rebounder/shot blocker.
Both finish well.
Ariza shoots better.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2007, 02:29:08 AM
Balkman also seems to have a great understanding of the game both in terms of where to go and ball movment. Last year his impact transcended his basketball skills which bodes well for his future assuming he attacks the offseason with the same energy he brings to the court and is able to expand his game

We need a serious front court defender. I don't see Lee or Frye getting there anytime soon, or Curry obviously. I think we can get the shooter we need in the draft. We're gonna need to trade for a stopper and one of these guys needs to be part of the deal though probably not Curry

Cavs need more Iso and less picks to give LBJ room to operate if they are going to have any chance


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 08, 2007, 08:18:58 AM
Once again whiskey, I'm not concened the Knicks are going to have to "go through" cleveland in the years to come until your GM brings in some surrounding talent.  Why should LBJ stay in Cleveland if he is good enough to take any team to the Finals. 

Which team has more talent to surround LBJ?  The Knicks or the Cavs? 
Right now?  Cleveland.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 08, 2007, 09:26:19 AM
Balkman also seems to have a great understanding of the game both in terms of where to go and ball movment. Last year his impact transcended his basketball skills which bodes well for his future assuming he attacks the offseason with the same energy he brings to the court and is able to expand his game

We need a serious front court defender. I don't see Lee or Frye getting there anytime soon, or Curry obviously. I think we can get the shooter we need in the draft. We're gonna need to trade for a stopper and one of these guys needs to be part of the deal though probably not Curry

Cavs need more Iso and less picks to give LBJ room to operate if they are going to have any chance


I think Balkman could be a 30-minute a night guy on a strong team, given the right cast.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 08, 2007, 09:38:11 AM
I also made a a hundred Frye trade scenarios but I agree with Kam that Frye may not be as bad as people are portraying him and may or may not be on the trading block, agreed he had a semi bad year --I kinda blame that on Isaih because at times with Curry on the low block Frye looked lost and seemed to me he didn't know exactly where to position himself when Curry made his move. I think this year Isaih should instill more motion offense do not allow players to just stand around while Curry makes his moves--- everyone except the 3 point threat should be moving giving Curry numerous passing options should the double or triple team comes. Ironically you would think Frye with that sweet jumper would be the perfect match (on offense) for Currys post up game. GO FIGURE


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2007, 09:42:17 AM
FRYE last season was playing like he has to defer to everyone.  Other teams began leaving him open and FRYE would kinda stutter with the ball before passing it off to a teammate like a hot potato.  What happened to his confidence?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 08, 2007, 10:12:18 AM
Jazz owner almost sound like he just want to get rid AK and if thats the case I'd make him a swap trade, Id offer Jerome James,Jared Jefrries and Malik Rose for AK47 and Gordon Giricek. They do it because the owner is sick of Andre and they get a better backup center then Collins who sucks, they get a good lockerroom guy in Rose and they get a agile SF who is almost Identical to Ak with less the attitude. Why do we do it we get an active SF/PF (I'd play him at the 4 in situations)who blocks shots and rebounds and we get a outside shooter in Giricek.  His contract wouldn't matter because it'll be the same as Maliks and James contract it'll just be a lateral move as far as contracts.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 08, 2007, 10:22:00 AM
oy


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 08, 2007, 10:44:03 AM
I found this interveiw posted by Allan Hahns with David Lee on Ultimate knicks. One part of the interview stuck out to me and makes me agree with the masses WE SHOULD KEEP DAVID LEE.

here's some highlights of the conversation David had with Joe and Evan. You can hear the whole thing at the WFAN website.

- He said playing the sixth man role took some time to adjust to, but he learned to embrace it. "Basically, it's all a mental game."

- He's shooting 1,000 jumpers a day and also working on his ball-handling to improve two weak areas of his game. "I'm definitely not going to get worse at it," he added


I think back to the allstar game, David was active and was everywhere and he just has a knack to be wherever the ball is kinda reminds you Dennis Rodman before the operation.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 08, 2007, 10:50:48 AM
Jaqd - Jazz would never trade AK for dreck. Francis & Frye, maybe. But they would probably ask for Malik, Craw & Frye.

I wonder if we could get them down to Malik, Craw & Nate (or Morris). I'd do that in a heartbeat, although the need for a shooter at the 2 would become even more important, and even though Jeffries, Renaldo and Kirilenko would probably be a bit too much redundancy.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 08, 2007, 10:53:11 AM
Hey Lester....

The long-speculated return of Patrick Ewing to the Knicks as an assistant coach became a far stronger possibility Thursday. A spot on Isiah Thomas' staff is now open after Phil Ford, who came to New York as one of Larry Brown's assistants, left to take a similar job in Charlotte with fellow North Carolina alum Michael Jordan and his new head coach Sam Vincent.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjcmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcxNDc5MDYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 08, 2007, 11:03:22 AM
Good luck to Phil in his going home.  Gotta believe he was never comfortable here.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 08, 2007, 11:32:17 AM
Balkman is the better ball handler and rebounder/shot blocker.
Both finish well.
Ariza shoots better.

Based on my observations of Trevor before he left the Knicks, Balkman is a far better finisher in my view. Ariza could dunk, but when he went to the basket he had no moves whatsoever.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 08, 2007, 11:53:00 AM
Tony Bullet head Parker was unstoppable...Ginobli played very smart and TiMMay did work...he is a stud.

It is not a lost cause...Mike Brown coach of the cavs was a big time video guy his entire career and will see something to build apon...

Things I see...

Larry Hughes is injured and noncompetitive...he cannot shoot or defend...
Boobie Gibson was stating to score heavily on Tony Parker...he also made numerous steals when he got playing time...let Boobie Play!  lead with him or lose the series....bottom line.

Lebron is triple teamed and forced to shoot way outside of his range...he can make a couple of 3pt but thats not his game...Pass the ball Lebron!

My  man Gooden was making progress on the Spurs...keep going to him.

Big Z and Lebron are struggling....let pavlovic and Gibson take over until it opens up for Lebron..

If the Cavs want to win they better sit Hughes and maybe play Snow sometimes as well on defense.

One name for you Daniel Gibson get him the ball.

have a great weekend.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 08, 2007, 01:08:33 PM
AK47 is available because his contract is bloated and his effectiveness is down.
We could get him at a discount, because who else will absorb his insane $$$?

Here is some of the discussion with the Utah GM:

Quote
Changing the subject, assuming no team wants to take on the $63 million Andrei Kirilenko has left on his contract, the Jazz have to hope that Kirilenko can recapture his game between now and the start of training camp in October.

    O'Connor said: "With Andrei, I think he needs to go back and maybe even look at films of where he was two, three years ago, how he effected the game without scoring and understand that that's his strength."

    There also is the hope that Ronnie Brewer will be able to contribute more next season
. In some ways, Brewer's development was hindered by the Jazz's success, as Sloan couldn't just let the rookie guard take his lumps.

    "I think he'll be eons ahead of where he was," O'Connor said, adding, "Obviously, he's gifted athletically. He could become a good defender. He knows what he has to do now."

I'd give them The Craw, JJ and Malik for AK and CJMiles (or Giricek maybe).
-------------------------

As far as Cavs are concerned, this seems like a recipe for disaster:

Quote
My  man Gooden was making progress on the Spurs...keep going to him.
Big Z and Lebron are struggling....let pavlovic and Gibson take over until it opens up for Lebron.
If Pavlov gets too aggressive he takes it into the defense too much and gets rejected or turns it over.  Gibson basically gets open due to LeBron.  Gooden is basically a Juwan Howard type -- a guy who appears to have the tools but none of them are sharp enough.  He's a role player and starts to look like a bum when he has to do too much.  He comes alive once every 5 games or so.  That's what he is.
Lebron did pass, and the other Cavs didn't get the shots down. 
I actually missed the decisive 3rd Q, but the first half both teams missed a good deal of open shots.  LeBron only started chucking (and making) 3's when things looked bleak to get the Cavs back within striking range. 

I think the Cavs have to get Z involved more.  He can defend Duncan one-on-one, and when he is able to score, than he gets more active and boards as well.  His jumper can also pull Duncan away from the basket. 

Interesting to note how Varejao was so effective against Sheed, but got completely chumped by Duncan on both ends.  Matchups are always important, but Duncan plays smart, has a varied arsenal, and keeps a cool head.  And damn is Tony Parker slick.  I always think that the first time he goes in for a layup you have to knock him on his ass hard.  But he's pretty tough, fast and crafty.

First time in forever that I'm rooting for the Spurs.  Or at least since Artis Gilmore and George Gervin on tape delay.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 08, 2007, 01:50:36 PM
If yall think for one minute that Stern hasn't summoned the zebras to the zoo and passed out the jordan rules yall are crazy, Listen game one and two real games three thru 5 the zebras got all the control. This series will go to 7 strictly because stern wants to stretch the season as long as possible.  Although its more interesting to me now that the cavs and not detroit are in the big dance GO FIGURE


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2007, 02:03:30 PM
Speaking of spurs I'm going to use Sean Elliot for a segue here about the U of Arizona's penchant for spitting out SF//SGs at about 6'7" and 200lbs who blossom at the next level. Its either something in the water out there or that guy Lute... This isn't predictive or probative, but I thought it was interesting

                                PPG    RPG   APG  FG/3PT%
SEAN ELLIOT               19.2   6.1    3.4   51/42
RICHARD JEFFERSON     11.2   5.0    2.8   49/36
ANDRE IGUDALLA(sp?)    9.6  ~5.0   3.4   42/27
LUKE WALTON              9.1    5.1    4.5   42/28

MARCUS WILLIAMS       16.2   5.6    2.2   48/36

Seems like Lute got equivalent production though one year less time with Williams than the others on this list. If he can be near as productive in the league as his predecesors at Arizona that is great value for #23, however pedigree can be a weak predictor as with Duke big men: Laetner, Brand, Boozer, Williams is up and down.


Title: Reality: The X FACTOR[s]
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2007, 02:55:33 PM
Kirilenko?  (http://www.sbac.edu/~media/images/questionmark.jpg)

The player I saw two years back would've been nice.  But his inconsistency and mental state is such that he enters the Rasheed zone. 

Agree that we are kinda too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, and could use a better balanced roster, but again, other teams mental cases and whiners for our youth. 

With someone like Frye, while I would be willing to include him in the right deal, I don't see the real deal coming along. 

I think it is way too early to give up on Frye. 

It's how we use him, and the opportunities we afford him...make it clear what is expected of him. 

Along those lines, I am not surprised to hear Lee shooting 1000 jumpers a day and working on his ballhandling.  LEE IS THAT KIND OF YOUNG MAN!

So is Frye.  I am not willynilly willing to simply dump him.  Certainly not for someone else's rejects. 

Perhaps, based on what we have seen, Lee is a much better match for Curry up front. 

If Lee can develop a consistent 12-15-18 foot jumper, a la Charles Oakley, and can get to the rack off the dribble as a cutter off of a Curry pass, then we could live with Balkman at SF.  And both Lee and Blakman proved dynamic coming off the bench. 

It will be interesting to see what we have in Morris, who Isiah in his self-serving way keep touting as his second first round pick. 

If Morris can evolve into an effective low-block player, than Frye could be the main big man option on a second unit. 

Least ways, if we are going to shop Frye, let's build up his value, not give him away off of an inconsistent sophomore year.  His rookie year was not a mirage.  His role chaged, and so did his body.  Let the kid mature. 

We have a lot of ifs, certainly regarding the health of key players like Quentin and Steph and Jamal.

If...ifffffffff....

Curry-Lee-Quentin-Jamal-Steph

Frye-Jeffries-Balkman-N8-Mardy

Morris-[#23]

James-Francis....[?]

So many X-FACTORS

(http://www.town.midland.on.ca/media/thumbs/question.jpg_1399_thumb346x507.jpg)

* Marcus Williams would be a nice picup at #23.  So would Almond.  More I think about it, unless Zeke is really sold on a big like Williams, or Tiago Splitter falls in our laps...we need a PURE FRIGGIN' SHOOTER!

* Morris is a BIG X FACTOR?  What kind of big do we have?  Is he a more natural low-post presence than Channing?  What is Channing working on in the off-season? 

* Who we draft at #23 [assuming we keep the pick]?

* What is the end game with Stevie Francis?  Do we negotiate a buy-out?  Can he be a happy contributor as a role player? 

* How much responsibility do we put on Mardy?  He proved he can carry some of the load.  God knows, we can no longer play Stephon more than 25-20 minutes a game.  Steph can contribute, but we cannot ride him into the turf like we did with Larry Johnson. 

* Does N8 mature?  Does Jeffries get over the jitters of his first season?  Does Balkman step up and develop enough offensive skills to take over the SF slot? 

* What role does Jamal play?  Starter or sixth man? 


Title: Worst Athelete?
Post by: chipstern on June 08, 2007, 03:05:38 PM
Think Seattle is going to pass on Durant at #2 because he can't bench press 185 pounds?

Give me a fucking break. 

If we had Durant at SF next to Curry and Lee next season we could start selling tickets to the Easter Conference Finals.    

All of this combine bullshit?  Lot of guys measure wellin football combines: bench press, vertical leap, 4.3 fourty. 

But are they FOOTBALL PLAYERS? 

Lot of people questioned Matt Leinhert's athleticism and Vince Young's mechanics.  Think Houston regrets passing on Vince?  What about all of those teams who passed on the USC kid? 

Durant is a basketball player?  Bench presses?  He is 19 years old.  He'll get bigger, and he'll get stronger.  But his basketball skils are off the map!


Title: Re: Worst Athlete
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 08, 2007, 03:27:54 PM
Chip - I think the argument is that the combine works well in the NFL because everything is scripted and specialised. But hoops is so free-flowing, that it is difficult to translate results from isolated, monitored tests to game situations. I think Durant being rated the worst athlete when he is quite obviously a great athlete will put to the death the concept of the combine being important in decision making.

Incidentally, I have always found the more methodical, deliberate sports (football, baseball, golf) terribly boring to watch, and have always been more interested in the more dynamic, free-flowing, motion-based sports (basketball, soccer, hockey). That's me personally - I understand there is a cultural importance to baseball and football in America.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: PrezIke on June 08, 2007, 03:44:57 PM
just to follow up on bo's Knick Draft Trivia. Someone on UltimateKnicks made the correct point that Gerald Wilkins (drafted by the team) also averaged over 10 ppg his career and Mark Jackson averaged 9.6 ppg.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 08, 2007, 04:03:00 PM
I think Durant's first year is going to be very similar to Ammo's especially if he go to a team without an established 1 and 2 option. Seatle would be fine if they keep Rashard. Kick outs and opportunistic baskets should be his diet untill he's been through the wringer a few times. I think he'll have trouble with NBA Defenses focusing on him and SFs and PFs both will use him on the other end. That aught to piss him off enough to transform himself for a monster year 2...

Chip I think you are overstating Steph's decline he should probably get low starters minutes, right around 30. It would also help if he were the second best defender among our guards on the floor and defend the weaker offensive player.

I would like to win with this iteration of the Knicks, but it is not the final product. At the begining of 09-10 baring any major moves we will have 10 players under contract and be about 16 mil under the cap (SALARIES OF 41 MIL, CAP OF 57 MIL GIVE OR TAKE)  not counting rookies. between rookies and extensions we can get back to the cap as long as we are a dollar under, allowing us to sign a free agent for as much as we please (At which point we'll be back over the cap). Lets say we find 2 more rookies who stick in that time period, that puts us a 12 players and about 44 mil. If we can trade Craw and Jefferies for Wallace we save 15 mil in 09-10 giving us 32 mil to extend our players and chase free agents and then we could still offer a budding superstar a max contract. All our recent draftpicks plus Curry, James and Q only come to 25 million thats 2 of everything, compliments to the best player available at all possitions except center (Curry doesn't really compliment another center). If Marbs and Wallace are still part of the picture and want to see it through, the can sign on for old timer contracts in the 4-8 mil range for 2-3 years without breaking the bank or the plan.

In the mean time our core, the guys who will do the grunt work on the post 09-10 teams need to use the interveening two years to grow together and win as much as they can. It will help us if they play hard and above talent and remain fun to watch.


Title: Lenny
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 08, 2007, 04:36:13 PM
Looks like Lenny might be done already in Seattle. That was quick.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-25-33/That-Was-Quick--Lenny-Wilkens.html

If so, that marks the third time in about 5 years that Lenny has been given the boot more or less for having the appearance of lacking assertiveness.

Also, anyone notice that Jeff Van Gundy has divorced on painful terms in Houston, just as he did in NY?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on June 08, 2007, 04:49:05 PM
Hey Lester....
The long-speculated return of Patrick Ewing to the Knicks as an assistant coach became a far stronger possibility cWVlRUV5eTcxNDc5MDYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Hope so. Sure beats adding another pisston.

BTW Jaq, I think your outline for the upcoming actions of Stern's Zebra crew is pretty high probability.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2007, 05:11:11 PM
Once again whiskey, I'm not concened the Knicks are going to have to "go through" cleveland in the years to come until your GM brings in some surrounding talent.  Why should LBJ stay in Cleveland if he is good enough to take any team to the Finals. 

Which team has more talent to surround LBJ?  The Knicks or the Cavs? 
Right now?  Cleveland.

At SF only.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2007, 05:24:32 PM
I sure hope the refs fix it so this series goes long.  Heaven knows the CAVS can't get it done on their own.  They look awful.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 08, 2007, 06:49:14 PM
Patrick on the Knicks Bench.... I like it.  But then will he be Herb's backup?  The irony.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 09, 2007, 05:40:43 AM
just to follow up on bo's Knick Draft Trivia. Someone on UltimateKnicks made the correct point that Gerald Wilkins (drafted by the team) also averaged over 10 ppg his career and Mark Jackson averaged 9.6 ppg.
Dominique's little brother did indeed.
See what I get for relying on an ESPN stat chart (in fairness to them it only listed 1st round picks and who would've thunk that the 'bockers had a good 2nd round pick in their past?).  I almost looked up Kenny "Sky" Awkward, as his stats were mysteriously listed as N/A, which is possibly a paid service ESPN offers to less successful former players.

Wilkins was drafted the same year as Ewing, but being a 2nd rounder was indeed drafted after Ewing.  I always think of Wilkins in the run of guards we drafted pre-Ewing (Tucker &Walker) and followed by the post-Ewing search for a point (Mark Jackson, Strickland, Anthony, and finally Chollie).  And yes, Mark Jackson nearly averaged career double-digits and undoubtedly would have if he didn't play for 50 years, until he became perfectly spherical.   I thought that was a fun "almost" in the answer.  Of course his career assist numbers are stellar.

I tell you, I'd trade Crawford straight up for the same age Darrell Walker.  Wilkins too though they are similar.

Simmons says:
Quote
Our announcers for tonight: Mike Breen, Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy, one of my favorite three-man booths in recent memory.
So we are represented in the Finals after all.


Title: Bo Dids & Dont's
Post by: chipstern on June 09, 2007, 03:10:02 PM
Damn, Bo, you starting to sound like Mirasja on the subject of Tim Thomas. 

Guess we agree to disagree, because I still like Jamal. 


Title: Ron Artest could be headed to Houston
Post by: Kam on June 09, 2007, 03:34:54 PM
One possible destination for Ron Artest this summer? Houston, to be reunited with his former coach Rick Adelman.

I'm told the Rockets have been quietly putting out feelers about Artest, and the price might be right. I hear it would cost the Rockets Bob Sura (he has only $1 million in salary protection next year), Kirk Snyder, Vasilis Spanoulis and this year's first-round draft pick.

With Artest entering a player option year on his contract in the summer of 2008, it may be time to take the risk.


-Chad Ford


I say that a bunch of ending contracts (Sura, Snyder, Spanoulis) and the #26 pick for Artest is a nice move for Houston.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on June 09, 2007, 05:09:01 PM
I tell you, I'd trade Crawford straight up for the same age Darrell Walker. 

Hey wait, that was my trade....but for Marbury..but I wouldn't do it anymore...but I might do it for Craw. His arms are damn near as skinny and long as Darrell's but grab 90% less steals. I like Craw too Chip, but how many years can we wait until he becomes SOMETHING?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 09, 2007, 05:17:33 PM
Why are you guys only thinking Tiago Splitter and Rudy Fernandez? La Bomba Navarro is a much better player and he can really shoot, from any distance. Anyway, Rudy's team (Joventut) is about to eliminate R. Madrid in the semifinals. Navarro plays for Barcelona (they're one game away from the finals). I don't know if he'd want to play in the NBA. But someone should ask him.


Title: Re: Bo Dids & Dont's
Post by: bodiddley on June 10, 2007, 01:27:56 AM
Damn, Bo, you starting to sound like Mirasja on the subject of Tim Thomas. 
Guess we agree to disagree, because I still like Jamal. 

I've actually done a very good job of suppressing my disdain for Jeffries.  I thought he was a worthless player in Washington, but warily liked that we were finally bringing in some defenders.  So I've kept quiet and hoped JJ Skinny can fulfill a role for us.  I'll try to hold off until mid-season before declaring him a complete bust.

Crawford has some value around the league (he did go for 50 and stick game winners against a few other teams), and is one of the few contracts we have that others may take (besides our yutes who have to be packaged or otherwise can only bring back minimal salary).  Imo, Crawford has poor shot selection, low FG % and poor defense (ie a sloppy game based around athleticism).  I don't think he is going to help us win.  I want to improve our backcourt, and I don't see Marbury being moved.

Biz, Berman (fwiw) agrees with me that we need to target a SG shooter in this draft.  He believes that that's Isiah's plan, and recs Almond. 
http://tinyurl.com/ys5coc
Sidenote: Berman's readers must be idiots.  One comment after the article suggests trading our 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick for two 2nd rounders.  A truly dumb idea even if such a possibility existed.  Two other posters ask about an AH comeback.  Berman sure attracts the hoops informed.




Title: Espagnol
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 10, 2007, 01:47:40 AM
Why are you guys only thinking Tiago Splitter and Rudy Fernandez? La Bomba Navarro is a much better player

Navarro is Wizards property


Title: Sigh
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2007, 12:47:49 PM
Ostensibly for financial and chemistry reasons, the Phoenix Suns are looking to offload Shawn Marion. 

Zounds.     


HoopsHype has a piece where they intimate that Boston could trade their #5 pick along with Theo Ratliff and one of their guards as cap filler for Marion. 


Title: Re: Sigh
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 10, 2007, 01:08:51 PM
HoopsHype has a piece where they intimate that Boston could trade their #5 pick along with Theo Ratliff and one of their guards as cap filler for Marion. 

Chip - I'd be surprised if they compromised their ability to contend with such a deal. Horford/Noah/Brewer with the 5 pick sounds great on Phoenix, but Marion is near impossible to replace.  Not sure Steve Kerr wants that to be his first move...

If they absolutely had to do the deal, they would presumably also rid themselves of Marcus Banks in the same deal.


Title: BizM
Post by: chipstern on June 10, 2007, 03:41:18 PM
I can't fathom it either, becuase ot me Marion is the among the premier SF in the league.  He scores, he rebounds.  What the fuck? 

Still, the could play Diaw at SF, Stoudamire at PF and put Noah at center, alebit a thin center, but one who can run the floor, finish, pass and play a little D.  More of a natural PF, but that is the trend, save for Shaq, Curry and soon Brother Oden. 

Issues have surfaced with Stoudamire as well, but JesusMaryJoseph, would they offload him? 


Title: Re: Canadiense?
Post by: carlos123 on June 10, 2007, 05:54:57 PM
Navarro is Wizards property

Do the Wizards want/need him?


Title: DerMarr Johnson tasered
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 12:47:41 AM
DerMarr Johnson was charged with resisting arrest and interfering with police during a disturbance outside a nightclub.
Police said they used a Taser to calm the six-foot-nine player.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46443/20070611/nuggets_forward_tasered_arrested_outside_nightclub/ (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46443/20070611/nuggets_forward_tasered_arrested_outside_nightclub/)


Title: Nick Young or Morris Almond? Mid range or Long range? USC or Rice?
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 02:19:00 AM
http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/workouts_070607.html (http://www.nba.com/knicks/news/workouts_070607.html)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 11, 2007, 07:49:49 AM
I've not seen Almond play, but I think the call is absolutely Nick Young.

I'd be willing to trade multiple picks and youth to nab Corey Brewer, who I think is going to be in that Deng/Howard/Igoudala/Prince stratosphere....


Title: Getting Whacked
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2007, 08:15:51 AM
Last night's Soprano episode might befuddle cognitvely challenged dimwits like the Post's Stasi, but I was really enthralled...didn't gift wrap the whole thing for those types who like neat, predictable made for TV packages...

Lots of lovely details, including Paulie and the cat, Tony and Silvio in the hospital, the whacking of Phil Leotardo (and the family accord in that spooky industrial space), the curious accord between Tony and the Feds, the intimations of flippers and grand jury indictments to come, the Heinz Ketchup bottle blockage, the overall ambiguity of the final stanzas, and the jump out of your chair, fuck-me, MY CABLE WENT OUT/cut-to-black of the ending. 

I don't hink you can read in anything more to the ending, though clealry, Meadow's parallel parking and the trucker visiting the john created an expectation...the audience out-guessing the director, as Buster Keaton used to put it, and the directro double crossing them. 

JOHN FROM CINCINNATTI was interesting, but I miss DEADWOOD.  Still, one more season of THE WIRE to come. 

Thanks to David Chase for not taking the pat way out with THE SOPRANOS. 

The Knicks?

Be nice to have a second rounder, huh? 

Don't think Nick Young falls our way.  I sure do like Almond.  And McRoberts.  But I see the Nets taking him. 

Would Isiah make a giant reach for Glenn Davis, to give New York a twin baby Huey Front Line?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 11, 2007, 08:37:38 AM
I doubt Isaih goes for Big baby, he was down on sweetney who was a little overwieght but could post up and rebound,besides if you look at the majority of Isaihs pick ups and you can see he wants hieght on the court. I think if he can find a 6'11 point guard he would snatch him up in a heartbeat.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 11, 2007, 11:20:07 AM
Wow The Spurs are really giving it to the Cavs! 

Is this series a 4 game sweep?


Can Cleveland at least win one at home?

The big 3 for San Antonio are great especially that Tony Parker...he is the series MVP so far in my opinion.

Cmon Lebron you can do better than this....


Title: Rumors
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2007, 11:45:33 AM
Intimations of bad boyz to come...

Over on HoopsHype, for what it's worth, and probably not much, speculation abounds, including isiah's interest in Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace, who both would obviously have interest in coming to NY. 

I'm of two minds here...if they can be shoplifted, I have interest, say for the sake of argument, if Detroit had interest in Stevie Francis, as they could use some back court depth.  Or Artest for, oh, Malik Rose and Nate Robinson.  Or you could substititue Jared Jeffried...again, I'm not keen on offloading N8, despite him being a head case, as he had some pretty amazing offensive outbursts at season's end, and has turned into a good three-point shooter. 

But we need to thin out the herd in the back court. 

So, just for the sake of argument, and this is trade chin music at its lowest form of douche baggery...

IF we pulled off the two highly unlikey trades I fanatasize about...and drafted Almond at #23...

C: Curry, Morris, James

PF-C: Wallace, Frye

PF-SF: Lee, Jeffries

SF-SG: Artest, Balkman, Richardson

SG: Almond

PG-SG: Marbury, Crawford, Collins

Curry-Wallace-Artest-Richardson-Marbury

Frye-Lee-Balkman-Crawford-Collins

Jeffries-Almond

Morris-James

(http://www.stevehiggs.com/artwork/fullsize/daydreaming.jpg)

My fantasies are about as lame as any other...just a peaceful, daydreamy morning up here in the Heights...



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 11, 2007, 12:15:38 PM
The Knicks have to start recruiting Champions....Domestic or International...College or NBDL  but the topps the Champs...Guys that are doing the damn thing and winning...Draft some of those Florida guys...bring in the best coaching assistants available

Draft the best Euros from the International league Championship teams...MVPs...like Manu.

Is anybody lighting up the NBDL for 30 a game in a winning championship kind of way?  These are the guys we need - we dont need guys willing to wait 4 years to develop.   With the salary cap and the Dolans locking up isiahs spending purse...I dont see the Knicks improving.   

if the knicks dont improve they will come in last place...

Whos better?
The Knicks or

nets?
celts?
76rs?
cavs?
Wizards?
Bulls?
raptors?
Bucks?

After the draft and trades the knicks will not be better than any of these teams>

What are the knicks thinking of?

Are they just waiting 3 seasons to end all these bogus lame long term contracts?

marbury's contract is a bit overpaid.
so is francis, so is Jerome james so is Q rich so is Crawford..

The knicks have inflated mediocre players into big salary guys thinking thats the only way to get them into NY.

God help the NY Knicks!  We could surely use a miracle!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 11, 2007, 01:07:06 PM
COnnect he just told you the miracle Rasheed Wallace and Ol Ron ROn that works for me. We already have a decent bench but we might have to give a little more not by much because Riley is desperate but the heat really don't have anything of value on that squad.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 11, 2007, 01:15:41 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

PG who lights up from 3

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/bobbybrown.html


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 01:42:02 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

PG who lights up from 3

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/bobbybrown.html

Can sometimes be too flashy, falls in love with the jumper instead of attacking the rim.  Sounds like N8. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 11, 2007, 01:46:32 PM
The heat won it all last year!

They have DWade a one man team.....the have Shaq attack....he has a TV show and will be in good condition...Miami will win the East. Whos going to beat them with a healthy Wade?


I hope the Knicks get rasheed...but the Pistons will be idiots to get rim of Wallace after losing Big ben last season....I bet Rasheed stays in Detroit.  Artest will be moved.... I bet jermaine Oneil stays in Indiana...that new coach is not stupid....he better keep his best player if he plans on sticking around...

Knick will get a college player or two....marbury will continue to be the best player on the team...

if the knicks stay pat ...as I think they will with the additions of 2 college kids...marbs is best palyer, Curry is second...Crawford and Lee are 3rd....

Balkman is the sleeper...he has game...

Knicks are very bland....there is no Star Power...Allan Houston is still on the books lets make him play.
lol :D ;D ::)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 11, 2007, 01:47:29 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmm

PG who lights up from 3

http://www.nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/bobbybrown.html

Can sometimes be too flashy, falls in love with the jumper instead of attacking the rim.  Sounds like N8. 

More playmaker


Title: Hey Carlos123
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 04:46:22 PM
The New York Knicks will play Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv in a preseason game this year at Madison Square Garden.


Title: Re: Getting Whacked
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 04:47:40 PM
Last night's Soprano episode might befuddle cognitvely challenged dimwits like the Post's Stasi, but I was really enthralled...didn't gift wrap the whole thing for those types who like neat, predictable made for TV packages...
JOHN FROM CINCINNATTI was interesting, but I miss DEADWOOD.  Still, one more season of THE WIRE to come. 
Thanks to David Chase for not taking the pat way out with THE SOPRANOS. 

Do you mean to say that there is only one season remaining in the Wire? I had not heard that.


Title: Kiid [BB]
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2007, 04:48:28 PM
There's gold hanging out in the second round, if you know where to look.  

Michael Redd...Carlos Boozer...

Good call, Kiid.  Looks like a Tony Parker-type.  

Be nice to have a second rounder, wouldn't it?  Especially in such a deep draft.  

isiah was a little too magnanimous in giving away our second rounders.  

Oh, well...wonder if there's another first rounder in our future.  For sure there are team who do not want to pay a first round salary.  

Morris Almond is kinda by obsession at the moment...would Isiah take Marco Belinelli?  Excellent handle...can create his own shot and hit from long range...

(http://www.stevenellis.com/steven_ellis_the_complete/images/wallace_curveball.jpg)

I'd be happy with either, but I fully expect a curve-ball from Isiah.  Hopefully it catches the corner of the plate.  


Title: HBO
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2007, 04:51:49 PM
(http://www.hbo.com/deadwood/img/castandcrew/actors/ianmcshane.jpg)  The Wire has one season remaining, and while Deadwood supposedly will return in the form of a couple of made for TV movies, I'm not holding by breath. 



Title: Re: Hey Kam
Post by: carlos123 on June 11, 2007, 04:53:55 PM
The New York Knicks will play Maccabi Elite Tel Aviv in a preseason game this year at Madison Square Garden.

So what?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 04:56:05 PM
I thought you might have something to share about their team man?  They beat the Raptors a couple years back on a last second shot by Tony Parker.  Anthony Parker that is.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 04:58:49 PM
CHIP-

The Wire has been my favorite show.  Every season has been so good.  It just puts regular TV cop-drama shows like Law and Order to shame.  And i like Law and Order.

Deadwood was brilliant in its first season. I thought they ended it just fine right there. Second season was okay...  didn't have to be.

Is Rome over too?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 05:07:19 PM
I thought you might have something to share about their team man?  They beat the Raptors a couple years back on a last second shot by Tony Parker.  Anthony Parker that is.

One of the guys i wanted the Knicks to draft, Will Bynum (PG - GA Tech), plays for Maccabi.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 11, 2007, 05:22:50 PM
CHIP-

The Wire has been my favorite show.  Every season has been so good.  It just puts regular TV cop-drama shows like Law and Order to shame.  And i like Law and Order.

Deadwood was brilliant in its first season. I thought they ended it just fine right there. Second season was okay...  didn't have to be.

Is Rome over too?

yep


Title: Rome
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2007, 05:48:43 PM
Rome wrapped up all of its plot points. 

Octavio Casear grew up and cemented his power. 

Anthony and Cleopatra committed suicide. 

Vorainus reconciloed with his children and died from wounds he received in a skirmish he and Titus Pulos engaged in with Roman troops to protect Cleopatra's son. 

Titus Pulos convinced Octavio that he had cut the son's throat, and when last seen was walking off with Cleopatra's son, and explaining to that he, not Julius Caesar was his actual father.  Great show.  Sorry it's gone, but they wrapped it up quite nicely.  The story was over.   

Deadwood has more to tell, and so does The Wire.  I love the way The Wire finished up, with evil prevailing, an McNulty about to return to the fray. 

Still can't get over what a bunch of dimwits people are concerning The Sopranos ending.  Just watched it again, and was noticing how them music worked...as Meadow enters, and we see Tony staring up at her, the lyrics go, "Don't stop."  And it's over. 

By the way Kam, that is not the reprobate gambler in the booth. 

The message was enjoy the good moments, as A.J. recalled his father saying...and there it is...Carlos' son who poured sulphuric acid on a fellow teens toes was busted, his father has flipped and a grand jury indictment awaits...Phil Leotardo is dead in the feel-good whack of the year...everyone is back to making money...Paulie and the cat take in the sun a Satirella's...Tony has acknowledged the continuing influence of his mother on his depression to a new therapist...the family gathers around the hearth for a meal...and we take leave of them and their lives, pretty much where we came in. 

The idea that Tony needed to be whacked or that some other equally conclusive plot point needed to be shoved down our throat, is retarded and so are the people who are dissappointed. 

This was a show that defied expectations all along, and that was its greatness, that and the textured nature of this gangsters, neither romanticized nor demonized, like Willie The Shae's great tragic protaginists.  We are never allowed to forget that these are gangsters. 

And of course the humor...that dark, dark humor:  Paulie and the cat; Tony and his lawyer with the ketchup bottle; the SUV running over Phil Leotardo's face. 

Let the people who were bummed by the ending go back to reality TV and the soaps. 

The Sopranos  was written and performed by adults, for adults...  


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 11, 2007, 07:48:10 PM
I thought you might have something to share about their team man?  They beat the Raptors a couple years back on a last second shot by Tony Parker.  Anthony Parker that is.

Sorry kam, I don't get to see their team, they would only show them here if they played a local team in the euroleague which finished about a month ago or if they went to the final four, which they didn't.


Title: Mad Mardy
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 11, 2007, 08:48:50 PM
What do you guys think? Fair assessment of Collins or a tad harsh?

http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=508


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 11, 2007, 08:49:25 PM
Yeah Carlos, i read they just missed making the final four.


Title: Collins Report Card
Post by: chipstern on June 11, 2007, 09:19:08 PM
I think the bloggers are in love with the sound of their own voice.  I know I am.

Mardy Collins' end of the season run was significant, considering how little burn he got beforehand. 

Many players have come into the league with a questonable jumper, and have improved immensely. 

What I like about Mardy is that he is an opportunistic scorer, and steady presence, who doesn't force the action.  He had a nice way of setting up Curry in the blocks, with passes that arrived just in time, and in such a manner as to allow Eddy a good chance of mkaing a strong post move.  He ran the offense well, didn't force the action, gave the team some coherence, made his team mates better...he also played good defense and rebounded well. 

Again, harsh?  How about moronic.  You can always improve your jumper.  Mardy showed why Temple's Chaney loved him, and why the Knicks drafted him.  Hell, Walt Frazier likes him, and sees a strong upside.  That's good enough for me. 

Like all of the Knicks young players, how hard he works...equates with how far he goes.  As for his offense, yes, he needs to improve his FT shooting, because he showed a gift for getting to the basket.  And Clyde spoke of helping him develop a go-to move and fake from midrange. 

Mardy Collins is the least of our problems. 


Title: Re: Mad Mardy
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 11, 2007, 10:13:33 PM
What do you guys think? Fair assessment of Collins or a tad harsh?

http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=508

harsh

But the guy who said we need to make room at guard or Mardy's a zero is right on/


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 11, 2007, 10:15:08 PM
Don't know about you but I am taking 15-6 and 6 from our starting point if he defends the position with aplomb and our othert guard is trhe higher scorer.

Thus dealing Stephon or Crawford is still my move


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on June 12, 2007, 02:12:20 PM
I agree Kiid, Mardy is a better compliment to Marbs or Crawford than they are to each other, especially if his set shot comes along. Question, what can our front court do to toughen up and improve offensively and defensively in the offseason and early going of the regular season if we don't make any moves?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2007, 02:14:18 PM
From the Post:

Marbury wants a WHITE SHOOTER.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2007, 02:46:05 PM
(http://www.radekaphotography.com/images/Six-Shooter-Peak-large.jpg) Kiid, God bless...you are nothing if not...well, Kiid. 
(http://www.wvculture.org/hiStory/thisdayinwvhistory/0528.jpg)

I believe for those who might want your input translated into less potentially divisive terms...

Stephon said someone like...(http://www.opengroup.com/sports/images/(SC)Steve_Kerr_Photo.jpg)

Steve Kerr

That is to say, someone who can flat out SHOOT. 

Like a Jerry West, or a Drazen Petrovic or a...

(http://nbadraft.net/profiles/largepics/mbelinelli02.jpg)

Marco Belinelli

(http://www.gio.lastampa.it/php_library/Image.php?FILE=bb_basket.jpg_8P1rz7.image_jpeg&WDTH=393&HGHT=231)





Title: Jonathan Givony on Marco Belinelli
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2007, 02:54:27 PM
Considering that this was his last day here before flying out to workout for the Washington Wizards on the 12th, we made sure to pay extra attention to the exploits of the highest rated 2007 draft prospect at the camp. The end conclusion was that he certainly seemed to play better than he had the day before, even if it still didn’t seem like he really wanted to be here from his body language.

Belinelli made much more of an effort to attack the basket by putting the ball on the floor, drawing eight fouls for his effort as well as picking up 5 turnovers in the process. He showed a very nice first step and decent ball-handling skills, dunking the ball emphatically in transition (reminding us of his excellent athleticism), and also causing some foolish turnovers.

He mixed in his shooting touch quite a bit on the way, shaking his man violently and executing some very complex off the dribble fade away moves, contorting his body exaggeratively to make things probably more complicated than he needed them to be. His stroke is a thing of beauty when he decides to set his feet and follow through on the simple catch and shoot, as he did quite nicely on one opportunity when left wide open. In the NBA 3-point shooting drills Belinelli wasn’t quite as good as you may have thought, going 3/10 on the first series and then 7/10 on the next.

All in all, this probably wasn’t the kind of camp Belinelli needed to really push his stock higher than it was coming in here. He’s a solid player, but pulling out of the draft and working on having a much better year next season (both individually and team-wise) doesn’t sound like that bad of an idea anymore.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 12, 2007, 03:35:32 PM
Have I got some deals for you!!!

Nagel100



Title: The Full Monty
Post by: chipstern on June 12, 2007, 04:21:30 PM
Monty is back. 

Be scared.  (http://www.magneticmediafed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/montyhall.jpg)

Be very scared...  


Title: Welcome Nagel100
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2007, 04:28:02 PM
We await your deals and your rules.


Title: Trade exceptions
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2007, 06:00:52 PM
Can someone please explain how trade exceptions work?


Title: Re: Trade exceptions
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2007, 06:15:52 PM
Can someone please explain how trade exceptions work?

Being too lazy to look up, i'll just guess:

Team A is over the cap, Team B is under.

Team A trades player X to Team B and does not get a player back, or gets one back who is making far less money.

This creates an imbalance in salary but its okay and legal since Team B is under the cap.

This creates the trade exception.

Maybe thats how it happens?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2007, 06:18:04 PM
And the amount of the exception must be the difference of the two salaries involved in the trade.

The trade exception expires one calendar year after it was awarded.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 12, 2007, 08:07:17 PM
Kamiar - to be more specific, here is my question:

Let's say we trade Crawford to the Hornets for a future first rounder.
Then we trade Frannie to the Hawks for a couple second rounders.

We should now have two exceptions. I believe both are for the mid-level exception, as that is the max (but I am not sure). I understand they only last one year, but can they be combined with each other? With other players? Can parts of them be exchanged with other exceptions/players?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2007, 09:23:21 PM
teams cannot use a Traded Player exception to sign free agents; it can be used only to acquire existing contracts from other teams.  For another, teams cannot combine a Traded Player exception with other exceptions (such as the Mid-Level exception or the 125% plus $100,000 margin from another trade) in order to trade for a more expensive player.  For example, a team with a $1 million Traded Player exception cannot combine it with their $2 million player to trade for a $3 million player (see question number 72 for more information on combining exceptions).

72. Can exceptions be combined when making trades?

Only to a very limited extent.  Teams can use different exceptions to acquire multiple players in the same trade if those players could also have been acquired individually using those exceptions.  For example, a team may trade a $5 million player for a $5.5 million player and two 10-year veterans earning $1 million each on minimum-salary contracts.  The minimum salary exception is used for the two minimum-salary players, and the $5.5 million player is acquired using the Traded Player exception ($5.5 million is within 125% plus $100,000 of $5 million).  This is allowed, since those players could have been acquired separately using those same exceptions.

What is not allowed is using two different exceptions for the same player.  Here is something that is not allowed: A team has a $5 million player and a $1 million Traded Player exception from a previous trade, and wants to add the Traded Player exception to the 125% plus $100,000 margin from their $5 million player ($6,350,000), in order to trade for a player making $7,000,000.  This cannot be done.

If a team has Traded Player exceptions from two previous non-simultaneous trades, then they can't combine them into one big Traded Player exception.  For example, suppose in the last year a team traded a $5 million player for a $4 million player (generating a $1.1 million Traded Player exception) and separately traded a $3 million player for a $1 million player (generating a $2.1 million Traded Player exception).  They cannot now combine the two into a $3.2 million Traded Player exception).


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2007, 09:26:41 PM
I take from the above that you can't combine a player on your team with an exception and you can't combine exceptions.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 12, 2007, 09:30:19 PM
So if we have traded someone and we have a $5 mil trade exception from it... we can turn around within a year and acquire a player(s) through a trade(s) where the only thing going out is the traded player exception.  The team(s) we trade with would obviously be motivated to purely dump salary for this trade exception in order to get under the tax threshold or the cap.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2007, 12:33:37 AM
Bron was fouled !


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2007, 12:34:29 AM
Good lookin Kam!

I wonder why the NBA makes it hard to trade players. Why have such rules? Why have base-year compensation?


Title: Chipstern
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 13, 2007, 02:14:44 AM
chipstern
Jr. Member

Posts: 60


     Worst Athelete?
« Reply #952 on: June 08, 2007, 03:05:38 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Think Seattle is going to pass on Durant at #2 because he can't bench press 185 pounds?

Give me a fucking break.   


Mr. Stern,

       I don't appreciate this type of language.  I was lead to believe that this was a family forum.  My 6 year old son read your post and has been using the word non-stop.  My hand will be forced to report you the next time such an incidence occurs. 

Good day,

-Detective Winslow


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 13, 2007, 02:16:48 AM
P.S.

I will never buy another one of your albums again.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2007, 02:18:32 AM
Somehow i don't believe that Detective Winslow has a 6 year old son.  I do think he knows a thing or two about enemas.  And try explaining that to a 6 year old! 


Title: BPA
Post by: thebizneverloses on June 13, 2007, 08:29:03 AM
http://knicks.lohudblogs.com/2007/06/12/a-visit-with-isiah/

Isiah says he will draft for need, rather than take the best player available. Not my preferred strategy.


Title: Re: BPA
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 08:51:57 AM
http://knicks.lohudblogs.com/2007/06/12/a-visit-with-isiah/

Isiah says he will draft for need, rather than take the best player available. Not my preferred strategy.
Well, near as I can tell, the Knicks need the best player available, so maybe it'll work out.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 13, 2007, 09:04:00 AM
The cavs are done.

the sweep is coming- get out Lebroom

Lebron was fouled on that last play

too bad....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 13, 2007, 09:15:45 AM
boz-just in case the Cavs don't pull off the greatest comeback in NBA history, and second greatest in all of sports, and I'm still rooting for the under-Cavs to do just that, have Clevelanders thought up the "name" of this epic sporting contest?  You know like "The Fumble, "The Shot" or perhaps most famously:

!   
!
THE DRIVE
!
!
!
!
!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2007, 09:20:40 AM
The no-call


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2007, 09:20:58 AM
The sweep


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on June 13, 2007, 09:23:46 AM
IMO connectivity999 might have nailed it with LeBroom


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 09:24:00 AM
boz-just in case the Cavs don't pull off the greatest comeback in NBA history, and second greatest in all of sports, and I'm still rooting for the under-Cavs to do just that, have Clevelanders thought up the "name" of this epic sporting contest?  You know like "The Fumble, "The Shot" or perhaps most famously:

!   
!
THE DRIVE
!
!
!
!
!

The Ass Kicking, maybe.  We also have Red Right 88, and most memorably for me, The Useless Pile of Horse Excrement Shaking off Sandy Almoar Three Times Because the Chicken Shit was Afraid to Throw His Fastball Only To Wind Up Getting Beat on his Third Best Pitch.  Still working on distilling that last into something pithier.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 13, 2007, 09:38:48 AM
Isiah wants to pull big trade
Posted: Wednesday June 13, 2007 06:39AM ET
Knicks president/coach Isiah Thomas has not approached the Lakers yet with a firm offer for Kobe Bryant, though he admitted at Orlando's pre-draft camp he concocted a series of tentative offers. Sources say the Knicks would be atop Bryant's and Jermaine O'Neal's wish lists. Bryant has a no-trade clause and can nix any deal.


Buss hinting of Kobe departure
Posted: Tuesday June 12, 2007 09:55AM ET
Johnny Buss, the oldest son of Lakers owner Jerry Buss, sent a bulletin to friends on his MySpace.com page that contained a peculiar reference to the team's nine-time All-Star. 'If you've been following the Kobe drama, I want to let you know it's not really drama -- sometimes we all need to make a change in our lives and that's all it is,' Buss wrote. 'Popular or unpopular, when it's time, it's time. Good luck Kobe wherever you go!"


Could it possibly happen?

The Garden would go ApeShit!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 13, 2007, 09:53:07 AM
Might have to see my first live Knicks game since '93


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 13, 2007, 10:32:00 AM
I think I posted this on the NBA forum here instead of the Knicks forum.

oh well. not exactly sure how this forum works yet.  Kam. who did we lose from the times forum and is there another spot our guys landed?

anyway first rule is not to trade for anyone who is CLEARLY!!! not an upgrade.


Rashard is my number one pick with a Crawford/ Nate/Frye/Rose  package a possibility for Lewis and Watson.

This will take some time to get into after being gone for so long.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 13, 2007, 10:45:21 AM
My number one priority is to add ol ROn ROn, someone who wants the spotlight and will be pumped by the garden faithfuls, not the DJsu's who boo just for the sake of booing.


Title: Re: BPA
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 13, 2007, 10:48:52 AM
http://knicks.lohudblogs.com/2007/06/12/a-visit-with-isiah/

Isiah says he will draft for need, rather than take the best player available. Not my preferred strategy.

bout time


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 13, 2007, 11:19:39 AM
Late in the first round you always draft for need.

In our case, there will be precious little opportunity for our drafted player to play next season as it is.  If we take a player in a position where we are stacked he'll just spend the season on the bench. That doesn't do us any good. 

Of course, if we don't move Franchise and Richardson comes back healthy, not much chance our pick is going to play anyway.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 13, 2007, 11:54:09 AM
If the Knicks pass on Ron Artest they dont want to win in my book....

You must do as San Antonio and the Jazz did, wait for the good teams to dismantle and pick up thier good veteran role players such as Horry, Fisher, Finley ect....

If Ron become available a player that at times outplayed Jermaine Oniel the smart teams will look to grab him...if he becomes a headcase bench or waive him....it wont be the 1st time.

But the knick seem like they dont know what they want to do.

Do they take thier pick and wait a few years for him to develop?

or do the use mid level

or do the make a multi player trade

do the bankrupt the future by looking to win now...and trade away the yoots?

Isiah most likely is playing the media game and keeping knick interest alive...but only plan to add the 23rd pick...They seem to be serious about looking at the draft guys closely...

I bet thats all they plan to do, because so many other teams have way more to offer for a true talent than the knicks...Francis..untouchable....Curry bad heart....Q Rich uninsured back......Nate too small....


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2007, 12:03:19 PM
not exactly sure how this forum works yet.  Kam. who did we lose from the times forum and is there another spot our guys landed? This will take some time to get into after being gone for so long.

Nagel100 we were just waiting for you and now the gangs all here.

Actually not quite... guys like boykins, rnmcknnon, kingston_ave, xen0ph0n, and phil1c... all got whacked.  Djsu too. Sad.  :'(

FWK has his own preferred spot. http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com (http://knicksmecca.blogspot.com)

BoDiddley, Chipstern, Carlos123, NYKnicks12, Trains1, badblkman, lesterdog, thebizneverloses, rembee, tysonnyc, PAPABEAR, even kozaitis have shown up here.  As has PrezIke, kidcarter8, jaqdavisone, connectivity999, semperknick, and facilitatorn.

Buddy the Leper, Ex.Regis, ThinkingPlague, Muammar-al-q, Ericmoto, extravatrek, Aleeda23, Emann22, MisterEarl... all sorta lurk in the background.  We await their picking up of the orange and blue courtesy phone.

If i missed any of the old gang, i apologize.  At least this place has an EDIT button!

no really.... where's flinter  ??? 

kby you ask? DJsu, Mister.Earl, PrezIke, Semperknick, Knicksbabyeah, Rembee, tomverve, and myself are also over at ultimateknicks.com. 

S-c-a-t-t-e-r-e-d


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 13, 2007, 12:46:19 PM
exactly Kam and I have yet to see forum unavailable please try again later as you lose all the text you've just spent an hour typing. I think this spot should remain home for the lost nytimes forumites I've adjusted quite well to this site and love the format of it.


Title: Also...
Post by: chipstern on June 13, 2007, 01:15:21 PM
Can add hyperlinks and photo images...unlimited editing or delete options for your own post...can enunciate and or spell out...

efyouseekay...


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: phill2c on June 13, 2007, 01:37:47 PM
Actually not quite... guys like boykins, rnm, kingston_ave, xen0ph0n, and phil1c... all got whacked.  Djsu too. Sad.  :'(

Life ain't the same without my other half, his hardworking wife, and his good friend the "fuctor"

burp......................fart................belch


Did phill1c ever really exist or did I invent him? Can't seem to remember now. Ahh well.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2007, 01:46:11 PM
Anyone heard from flinter?

or should I say exmachina?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 13, 2007, 03:43:02 PM
how do yall do them graphics


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 13, 2007, 03:53:58 PM
how do yall do them graphics

these?

Thats from this button (http://escapefromelba.com/forums/Themes/default/images/bbc/move.gif)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 13, 2007, 06:52:20 PM
Kam  thanks for the info.  Hello to all.

with the draft coming up there will be endless stories about deals.  It seems like Zeke will be monitoring all of them

thank goodnesss.

Rashard is my first pick in a deal ( Frye/JC/Mouse)
and I would add Webber as a 20-25 per minute guy. I know this will not be popular but Chris fits in with Curry being the focus down low.  Remember he will only be a rotation piece with Lee grabbing major minutes. As long as he costs nothing I think he makes the right one-year guy to help the offense from the high post. Limited role only.  he could be a back-up for Curry as well.

Balkman gets minutes at the 3 with lewis.   




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: ericmoto on June 13, 2007, 08:18:43 PM
Buddy the Leper, Ex.Regis, ThinkingPlague, Muammar-al-q, Ericmoto, extravatrek, Aleeda23, Emann22, MisterEarl... all sorta lurk in the background.  We await their picking up of the orange and blue courtesy phone.

I'm here, I'm here.  Frankly, I'm just flattered to be acknowledged in the usual band of idiots.  However, I have been somewhat consciously avoiding the blue and orange phone lest it be someone calling to tell me we've blown it up again for another change of course.

Honestly, I enjoyed watching this season.  Right up until the injuries took away everyone's pride (I know it was bad timing, but some people just laid down) but Mardy.  Anyway, I'd rather have another losing season that I enjoy watching and feel is building toward something - having our own pick, having a final year to evaluate which of the yoots are keepers - than wake up to that deja vu nightmare press release I've been reading over and over since the day Riley got Xavier McDaniel:

We're just waiting for everyone to gel.

I get gooseflesh just typing it.

I'm hungry for Almond!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on June 13, 2007, 11:57:08 PM
Zeke with the smoke screen, "Almond ain't no Allan Houston" ?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 14, 2007, 01:35:47 AM
Papabear Says

If we get Lewis and get rid of Crawford who could average over 20 points a game and we get Lewis who can average 20 points a game. Where is the rest of the extra points are going to come from??? We need a pure shooter who can defend. Fry deserves another shot!!! AWAHHHH wait a sec--- Trade him of we cam get what we need. We won't be able to trade our people until we show that they can play.
Hew it't 1:35  I better go to bed and get some sleep.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on June 14, 2007, 06:42:48 AM
Mike James to Houston, Juwan Howard to Sota. Straight up, or with throw-ins.

Onwards and...sideways. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 14, 2007, 08:57:49 AM
Semper that trade is not news thats garbage for garbage, It seems like Houston is just trying anything to blow it up, I still think Bonzi has some worth b4 last season he was killing on the kings playing like an allstar. Here we go my trade for the day.  If we can't get Ron ROn or Lewis this would be a great trade for both teams considering they're about to trade Howard.  Bonzi wells and Shane Battier for Jared Jeffries and Channing Frye. Why do they do it --they do it because they need a replacement PF for Howard and a defensive SF to make up for the lost of Battier. WHY do we do it  We aquire  a starting SG who can take the ball to the basket and get easy looks for Curry as well as a Defensive SF who can shoot the three and defend 3 positions and Lee gets the start and Morris could get his minutes. With the 23rd pick the Knicks select williams to round out the lineup.


starting lineup


PG   Steph
SG   Bonzi
SF   SHane
PF   Lee
C    Curry

second unit

PG  Mardy
SG  Crawford
SF  Q
PF  WIlliams
C   Morris


with Balkman and N8 being our energy off the bench


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: semperknick on June 14, 2007, 09:03:54 AM
Agree this trade is a lateral swap of spare parts.  Not going to do much good or bad for either team.

Also agree that Battier would be a great guy to get, but I don't see this happening.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 14, 2007, 09:06:22 AM
Battier for Frye after they just traded away thier aging PF and all they have to do is throw in Bonzi I think they;ll do that trade and I think its a good trade for both teams they get youth to add to that aging roster we get veteran help to add to our youth[


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: connectivity999 on June 14, 2007, 11:31:43 AM
Morris Almond

The biggest asset that Almond brings to the table is obviously his ability to shoot the ball from the perimeter. He is absolutely automatic when he has his feet set, which he has no problem doing awfully quickly when coming off screens. He gets his shot off quickly, has nice form, and releases the ball quite high. Morris is such an excellent shooter that once the ball left his hand, those in attendance were all expecting it to drop. Off the dribble he is outstanding going to his left, although he usually settles for a pull-up jumpshot instead of taking it all the way to the cup. When he does decide to take it to the rim going to his right, he generally does a great job of finishing, drawing a foul, or finding an open teammate after breaking down the defense.

What makes the Rice senior an even more attractive prospect is his ability to get to the foul line, where he goes nearly 10 times per game. He converts 86% of his free throw attempts, making him a player you don’t want to foul at the end of the game,


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 14, 2007, 12:36:20 PM
good morning from the left coast.


I'd package the pick in a deal.  Frye is our #1 assest to deal.  Lee makes him trade bait IMO.

Lewis is my #1 choice but in the summer any deal is possible even Ron Artest.

possible deal might be Artest for Frye/Jeffries  for Ron

thoughts?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 14, 2007, 12:53:20 PM
Semper that trade is not news thats garbage for garbage, It seems like Houston is just trying anything to blow it up, I still think Bonzi has some worth b4 last season he was killing on the kings playing like an allstar. Here we go my trade for the day.  If we can't get Ron ROn or Lewis this would be a great trade for both teams considering they're about to trade Howard.  Bonzi wells and Shane Battier for Jared Jeffries and Channing Frye. Why do they do it --they do it because they need a replacement PF for Howard and a defensive SF to make up for the lost of Battier. WHY do we do it  We aquire  a starting SG who can take the ball to the basket and get easy looks for Curry as well as a Defensive SF who can shoot the three and defend 3 positions and Lee gets the start and Morris could get his minutes. With the 23rd pick the Knicks select williams to round out the lineup.


starting lineup


PG   Steph
SG   Bonzi
SF   SHane
PF   Lee
C    Curry

second unit

PG  Mardy
SG  Crawford
SF  Q
PF  WIlliams
C   Morris


with Balkman and N8 being our energy off the bench


CHUCK










HAYES


Title: Nagel, If You Are Going To Fantaszie, Friggin' Fantasize...SUPERSIZE!
Post by: chipstern on June 14, 2007, 02:08:51 PM
I would not give up Frye for Artest.  Jeffries and Nate perhaps.  Seems way too generous for a player of his stature.  Would he make a difference?  Could cut both ways. 

But a DIFFERENCE MAKER?

Come on Nagel.  If you are going to cash in Frye, it has to be for something SIGNIFICANT. 

Monty Hall would be horrified with you. 

(http://www.letsmakeadeal.com/images/mh-1975.jpg)

Try this...and the numbers work...

Our #23 draft pick...Channing Frye...Steve Francis...Nate Robinson...Renaldo Balkman...for...

(http://ichris.ws/files/kobe-bryant-81.jpg)


You could fotz around with other players, but Philly got a lot less for Barkley, and Milwaukee a lot less for Jabbar, and the Knicks a lot less for Ewing (who was admittedly well past his prime)...

For the sake of argument...Francis can hold the fort for two years until they draft or develop a PG (Farmer).  They can use our draft pick to take pure shooter like Almond...they keep Bynum and Odom. 

Bynum-Frye-Odom-Almond-Francis

Kwame Brown/Chris Mihm/Ronny Turiaf-Luke Walton/Brian Cook-Balkman/Radmonovic-N8-Farmer

Would the Lakers go for it?  Could end up with three starters and two solid bench players.  Nothing to vaguely replace Kobe, but a pretty good influx of talent, and a core of players to work with. 

Would Kobe insist on NY and force a move? 

Us in this fanciful scenario. 

Curry-Lee-QRich-Kobe-Steph

Morris-Malik-Jeffries-Jamal-Mardy

James


Thins out the herd but leaves us a touch thin off the bench, and I hate to give up Frye or Balkman, but Kobe is one of the TOP Five Players in the league. 

Still, figure Lee for 35 a game at PF...Morris and James and Malik could at least give us 15-20 between them. 

Jeffries becomes more effective at SF and PF as he was in Washington with stronger offensive players to defer to.  And assume for the sake of argument that with Kobe and Stephon, Lee theoretically hitting a midrange jumper and Sniper Quentin healthy...think Eddy might get some nice one-on-one opportunities in the block? 

Could go to three-guard with Mardy/Steph-Jamal/Q-Kobe. 

Would I offer a similar deal for Jermaine or Artest or Rashard?  I would not. 

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002P5U.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)

Anyway...still raining...still dreaming...how you like this, Kiid?   


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 14, 2007, 03:43:44 PM
chipster

goodness  you have not only mastered this format but have clearly taken over my role as dealer supreme!!!

First of all I'm all for your Kobe deal.  Kobe is Kobe.  However, Frye for Artest?  Let's forget Ron's issues for a sec.  let's just look at skill set and how he would look with Curry and Lee. 

You don't think the best defensive 3 in the league is worth Channing Frye?

Plus he can give yoy 15 points per and exactly the attitude we need.

I would make this deal even though Lewis is my first choice.

Besides I'm way behing Chip and just warming up.  I still have half my brain in tuscany!!!!!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 14, 2007, 04:28:34 PM
Wow you guys are amazing with the post how the hell do yall do all those fancy smancy things put a brother on I wanna add some fly post like that every once in awhile


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2007, 04:39:42 PM
Jaq,

If you go to CHIPs post and hit the quote button, you will be able to see how its done.

You saw that picture floating by of Kobe?

You need one of these (http://escapefromelba.com/forums/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif)
Inside one of these (http://escapefromelba.com/forums/Themes/default/images/bbc/move.gif)

like so(http://escapefromelba.com/forums/Themes/default/images/bbc/img.gif)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 14, 2007, 04:53:23 PM
kam, what the hell is the pic under your name. I'm getting dizzy just trying to figure it out. Is it a Dali or something?  :o ???


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2007, 05:11:33 PM
kam, what the hell is the pic under your name. I'm getting dizzy just trying to figure it out. Is it a Dali or something?  :o ???

(http://bp1.blogger.com/_OzsBJ-p7dCM/RnGIxl5ku6I/AAAAAAAAAAo/bVv2slEkacE/s400/07pp1463-m.jpg)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2007, 06:43:05 PM
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/savedbygraceon1225/BernardKing.jpg)

Eight 50 pt games in his career.  He even had two consecutive 50 pt games.

The All-Time SF for the NYKnickerbockers.  Pretty much out the door when Ewing came around.  Thanks Al Bianchi.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2007, 06:45:49 PM
I came around as a fan in 83 so...

Kam's All-Time Knick Starting Lineup (of guys i watched play) :

Mark Jackson
Allan Houston
Bernard King
Charles Oakley
Patrick Ewing



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 14, 2007, 07:26:04 PM
kam, thanks for enlarging the photo. Now I know it's not a Dali  ;D

Now, I'd have Marcus Camby on your lineup, no offense meant to Oak man


Title: Here Ya Go Kam....
Post by: lesterdog on June 14, 2007, 11:06:45 PM
(http://thedraftreview.com/history/drafted1977/images/bernard-king.jpg)          (http://pr.tennessee.edu/alumni/photopages/athletics/king_bernard_large.jpg)      (http://nydnhalloffame.com/ssp/albums/album-14/tn/Photos_0018_Layer%2019.jpg)      (http://obzorov.net/novosti/bernard_king_small.jpg)         (http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1984/0507_large.jpg)   (http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/p/01/225/01225_kingphs008012.jpg)       (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/sports/year_in_sports/photos/02.01.jpg)


http://www.nba.com/history/king_50.html (http://www.nba.com/history/king_50.html)


Title: Re: Here Ya Go Kam....
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2007, 11:46:00 PM
(http://thedraftreview.com/history/drafted1977/images/bernard-king.jpg)          (http://pr.tennessee.edu/alumni/photopages/athletics/king_bernard_large.jpg)      (http://nydnhalloffame.com/ssp/albums/album-14/tn/Photos_0018_Layer%2019.jpg)      (http://obzorov.net/novosti/bernard_king_small.jpg)         (http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/1984/0507_large.jpg)   (http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/p/01/225/01225_kingphs008012.jpg)       (http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/sports/year_in_sports/photos/02.01.jpg)


http://www.nba.com/history/king_50.html (http://www.nba.com/history/king_50.html)


Post of the Year.


Title: BK30
Post by: Kam on June 14, 2007, 11:47:55 PM
And still better than LeBrawn.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 15, 2007, 01:30:38 AM
Sure thing - Camby over Oak.

LOL

-------------------

Clyde

Dollar

BER-nard

DD

The Big Fella

---

Mark

M. Ray

ALLAN

Oak

W Reed

--------

Ticky
Staahhhks
T Knight
Joe C
The Eraser
(just for fun)

-------

Next!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 15, 2007, 10:03:33 AM
Travis Knight?  Was he ever a Knick?

-----------------------------------

And guys, you are like kids in a candy store experimenting with the graphic capabilities of the forum and I solute your industriousness and creativity.

But for my tastes, its a bit of an eyesore that distracts from the quality discourse to be read written in this boring old (occasionally bolded) typeface.

Plus it makes it damn hard to browse the page at work.

Just some thoughts.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: jaqdavisone on June 15, 2007, 12:27:47 PM
I was reading ultimate knicks webpage and someone said the knicks will not make the playoffs with current cast we have, I beg to differ this team was actually playing some good ball towards the middle of the season, People laughed at Isaih for trying to build team chemistry and get the players to trust one another--look at Q and Steph last year they were at each other throat,this year they were high fiving and we heard no beef out the camp.  IF our keys players and contrary to what everyone says about Crawford he was playing the best ball of his career we were on to something the games were exciting all the way til the buzzer sounded. TO me it looked like were a player or two away from being right in the middle of the pack. I strongly believe if it wasn't for our crew going down we'd beat out Indiana,atlanta and the nets.  If we can get Ol Ron Ron without gutting this team and draft Williams we'll be right in the middle of the conference.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 15, 2007, 12:32:05 PM
Travis Knight?  Was he ever a Knick?



LOL

Toby, baby.

Had that one season where he WAS virtually the Knicks


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 15, 2007, 01:03:57 PM
Isn't he still getting paid?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: rembee on June 15, 2007, 01:27:39 PM
Whew, thanks kiid.

For a second there I thought that nightmare might actually have been a reality.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 15, 2007, 01:28:32 PM
From the Post:

Marbury wants a WHITE SHOOTER.



Just then, the entire forum broke into song!

[Singing] Ebony and Ivory…


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 15, 2007, 01:49:39 PM
Everyone knows we need a BLACK shooter in order to be successful.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 15, 2007, 01:50:15 PM
Travis Knight?  Was he ever a Knick?

I remember Travis Knight in a Knicks uni, though I can’t remember any of these Knicks teams from the 70’s.

I’m pretty sure that I was busy listening to Paul McCartney’s Wings Over America album for the 10,000th time.  I’m such a huge McCartney fan. 

Here’s a bit of trivia. 
I bet you guys didn’t know that Wings WAS NOT Paul’s first band!
Yeah, I know, isn’t it amazing?
I was shocked to hear that he was involved with some project called The Bead Holes as far back as the 60’s. 

It’s probably no longer in print and I bet none of it’s very good but I’m going to look into getting some of this stuff.


Title: Houston, We Have A Problem
Post by: chipstern on June 15, 2007, 03:00:23 PM
Former NBA player arrested for indecent exposure  

OKLAHOMA CITY -- Former NBA player Byron Houston was arrested Wednesday on an indecent exposure charge.

A woman called police around 5:45 p.m. Wednesday to report that a man was masturbating at an intersection in northwestern Oklahoma City, police Master Sgt. Gary Knight said. Officers found Houston in the driver's seat of a vehicle with his underwear on the floorboard, and the woman positively identified him, Knight said.

Houston was arrested on counts of indecent exposure, engaging in a lewd act and driving with a canceled license. He was held at the Oklahoma County Jail on $4,000 bond. The district attorney's office had not filed charges Thursday.

The 37-year-old Houston, Oklahoma State's career scoring leader, averaged 3.9 points and 3.0 rebounds in his four-year NBA career with Golden State, Seattle and Sacramento.

He pleaded guilty to three counts of indecent exposure in 2003 and is a registered sex offender. He most recently updated his registry in March, according to the state Department of Corrections' Web site.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on June 15, 2007, 03:27:16 PM
How very NY Post of you..............


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 15, 2007, 03:29:11 PM
Friends,

There has been a disturbance in the Forum.

I sense the presence of none other than Jpdtez.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Buddy the Leper on June 15, 2007, 03:51:20 PM
Chip,

Let’s not rush to judgment.

I’m sure there’s a really good explanation as to why Mr. Houston was masturbating at an intersection in northwestern Oklahoma City.

Besides, whatever happened to picking your nose at an intersection?

I miss those days.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 15, 2007, 06:10:49 PM
Sure thing - Camby over Oak.

LOL

-------

Next!

kiid, do you have any reason to expound, other than LOL or Next?

I mean, you sound pretty childish (as in kid) and uninteliigent (as in no reason for your expounding). Your really remind me or the fascists we run out of here, because they really had no balls once they were not inmune, and no brains, as they never had them.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 15, 2007, 07:10:14 PM
Chip,

A few years ago, my high school principal was busted while masturbating BUTT NAKED on the interstate.  His name is Mr. Blizzard.  Show some empathy!  The most boring experience next to watching the Knicks is driving.  Some people like to listen to music, smoke reefer, chew gum, or in certain cases, play with their one-eyed monster while driving 80 mph.  C'mon, give Mr. Houston a break.  It's like trying to give yourself a blow job. Everyone's tried it at least once.




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 15, 2007, 07:22:52 PM
This forum is by far superior to the NYtimes.


Title: Isiah to Kidcarter - We need a White PG
Post by: Kam on June 15, 2007, 07:26:47 PM
From the Post:
Marbury wants a WHITE SHOOTER.


Chad Ford Chat Wrap:

Jordan (PHX): Do you see the suns possibly using a pick to take Jared Jordan as a replacemnet for Nash. Seems that people are saying hes a great pure point gaurd.

SportsNation Chad Ford: He is a great pure point guard, but he's not the athlete or shooter than Nash is. It's not out of the question that he goes in the first round (we keep hearing that Isiah loves him) but he's more likely a second round pick.


Title: Mind Playin Tricks on Me
Post by: Kam on June 15, 2007, 11:50:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/nnRS-3AyGUs (http://www.youtube.com/v/nnRS-3AyGUs)

I ain't goin out without a fight!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2007, 02:04:00 AM
Teams starting to tweak their rosters:

Quote
The Detroit Pistons traded Argentine guard Carlos Delfino to the Toronto Raptors on Friday for second-round draft picks in 2009 and 2010.

Raps continue to add international players.  It'd actually be pretty cool if there was one NBA team comprised totally of foreign players.  Would have a different style and be a draw around the league (for curiosity if nothing else).  And since the Raps are in a completely foreign land, they'd be the best team to do it.

As for Delfino, I never saw too much game there.  But maybe it was just in the Detroit system where he looked lost.  Still he was a fairly young player on a cheap contract, and insurance in case Rip or Tayshaun get injured.  I guess Detroit was unlikely to re-sign him.  Good pick-up for Toronto.  Those 2nd rounders are still quite a ways off and low cost to see if Delfino can fill a role for them.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2007, 02:39:53 AM
Quote
Charlie Ward, the Heisman trophy winner who decided to play professional basketball rather than football, is the new basketball coach at Westbury Christian.
Ward has been named an assistant at the school which is located in Southwest Houston.

 If nothing else, you can bet they'll have the best prayer-circle around.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 02:49:05 AM
bo,

Would you take Oprah up the brown for $1,000,000?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 02:52:47 AM
Are you the real Bo Diddley?

If so, you were great at Buffalo Run Casino.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 16, 2007, 10:50:20 AM
Sure thing - Camby over Oak.

LOL

-------

Next!

kiid, do you have any reason to expound, other than LOL or Next?

I mean, you sound pretty childish (as in kid) and uninteliigent (as in no reason for your expounding). Your really remind me or the fascists we run out of here, because they really had no balls once they were not inmune, and no brains, as they never had them.

Kiss my ass, chico


Title: Re: Mind Playin Tricks on Me
Post by: lesterdog on June 16, 2007, 11:51:42 AM
http://www.youtube.com/v/nnRS-3AyGUs (http://www.youtube.com/v/nnRS-3AyGUs)

Gracias Amigo!



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 16, 2007, 12:02:26 PM
Teams starting to tweak their rosters:

Quote
The Detroit Pistons traded Argentine guard Carlos Delfino to the Toronto Raptors on Friday for second-round draft picks in 2009 and 2010.

Raps continue to add international players.  It'd actually be pretty cool if there was one NBA team comprised totally of foreign players.  Would have a different style and be a draw around the league (for curiosity if nothing else).  And since the Raps are in a completely foreign land, they'd be the best team to do it.

As for Delfino, I never saw too much game there.  But maybe it was just in the Detroit system where he looked lost.  Still he was a fairly young player on a cheap contract, and insurance in case Rip or Tayshaun get injured.  I guess Detroit was unlikely to re-sign him.  Good pick-up for Toronto.  Those 2nd rounders are still quite a ways off and low cost to see if Delfino can fill a role for them.
Actually, unless they've signed, oh, Bill Wennington, I believe Toronto's team is composed entirely of foreign players.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 16, 2007, 12:32:28 PM
Chris Bosh and TJ Ford will need to be traded.
Maybe in a deal for Dirk and DJ Mbenga.

Think I read something that MoPete had left for Charlotte.
At least I can't imagine that I'm having dreams involving MoPete.
Never liked his game, though he did step it up last year (contract year effort?).

I supoose Anthony Parker can be considered an honorary foreigner, as he played overseas long enough.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 12:36:41 PM
Kobe still wants out!  hoopshype.com


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 16, 2007, 12:46:31 PM
despite reports in today's LA times that Kobe wants out the Buss family will never allow that to happen.  They can make a trade today if they want to give up Bynum and Odom for jermaine.  They will do that before they give up Kobe and that deal will keep Bryant in L.A. 

Lakers have 2 years before Kobe can opt out and waiting for Bynum to develop is not worth it.  I say make the Indy deal and see what Kobe and Jermaine can accomplish with a support group.  They could add a Webber for little money or some other one year player.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 16, 2007, 01:12:57 PM
I would think it would be mutual that Webber and Detroit extend their relationship

Have to wonder, on Kobe. what's the delay in Isiah making an offer - or could it be one has been made and has been kept away from the press?  (Shame on you, Vescey - make something up already!)


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2007, 02:04:12 PM
Should see if LA will take Curry for Bynum and Odom.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 02:31:24 PM
LA will take that deal the day Chipstern votes a republican into office.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 16, 2007, 02:57:35 PM
money does not work and they won't do that.

kiid?  Ok  new forum.

Webber will be either with NY, LA or at home. IMO


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 03:09:34 PM
Carlos123.  Your post in response to kidcarter was useless and incoherent.  I would rather read what kidcarter has to say any day before wasting my eyesight on your retarded ramblings.  Go stuff a spicy chimichanga up your fat ass.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2007, 03:10:12 PM
I thought Odom and Curry make comparable $$$. 


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2007, 03:14:51 PM
Kwame and Bynum for Curry.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 03:19:26 PM
Eddy makes about $8 million and Odom $12 million. 

How about Franchise, Frye, Robinson, perhaps Morris, and a couple of future draft picks for Kobe and Turiaf?  I honestly think both teams would be better off.  Stevie still has a few good years left.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2007, 04:42:42 PM
Kiss my ass, chico

You're once again showing your intelligence. Just your kind of argument!


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on June 16, 2007, 04:45:18 PM
.  Go stuff a spicy chimichanga up your fat ass.

Look who's talking about retarded.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 16, 2007, 06:34:55 PM
Papabear Says
Hey guys watch you language. You can say things with out actually spelling is out. Let's make this blog a class A 1 blog.
It's a thing called respect to the person who put this blog together. Those whe can respect this blog, the owner should first warn him and after 2 warnings, remove him or her from the blog. The New York Times didn't put up with it so why should this blog.
KEEP IT REAL AND CLEAN

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 16, 2007, 06:39:12 PM
SORRY SPELLING CORRECTION


Papabear Says
Hey guys watch you language. You can say things with out actually spelling it out. Let's make this blog a class A 1 blog.
It's a thing called respect to the person who put this blog together. Those who can't respect this blog, the owner should first warn him and after 2 warnings, remove him or her from the blog. The New York Times didn't put up with it so why should this blog.
KEEP IT REAL AND CLEAN

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 06:48:23 PM
Papabear:

Sorry.  I guess things got a little out of hand.  Carlos123........I'm sorry.  I hope I haven't offended anyone here. 

P.S.

Is the word penis fair game?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 16, 2007, 07:05:35 PM
Papabear Says

I'm not trying to hold you back but see this example.
--- You stupid f##king dog.----

Now everyone knows what I'm talking about without really saying it.

Hey!!! what about Mr. Bryant coming to New York??? This deal should be done for the sake of basketball. New York is the Mecca and we need a Super Star.

HAPPY FATHERS DAY TO ALL YOU  PAPA'S little bears.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 16, 2007, 07:12:06 PM
F$#* the Spurs


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2007, 07:58:35 PM
F--- You.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on June 16, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
F is no fun without uck.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 16, 2007, 08:17:37 PM
Papabear Says

The only way that Kobe will get the respect he needs and deserves is to come to New York and hears why.
1. Chicago--  Michael Jordans town forever plus championships in the past 10 yrs
2. New Jersey-- Always second fidel to New York no matter how many game they win.
3. New York will be his team and to bring in a championship!!! He will go down in history maybe bigger than Jordan just by winning 2 more chamionships in New York.
4. Kobe will own the town, all he have to do is smile and keep his nose clean. also play some good basketball.
5. Los Angeles is a little anoid with Kobe.
6. The Los Angeles team didn't try hard because everything was about Kobe.
7. With Kobe in New York the NBA ratings will go up.

Lets get this deal done. I think that New York is Kobe's first choice and it ain/t about money for Kobe Now.
If we get Kobe I want to see Kobe coming in town on a Black Horse with a Kings Author's Knights uniform on trotting to MSG. OUR HERO

Papabear



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 16, 2007, 08:24:50 PM
Papabear Says

In reference to the cuse words give this blog the respect you gave The New York times. You all knew what would happen at the times. Let's have some fun and show some respect.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 17, 2007, 12:37:58 AM
ESPN's Bucher has Kobe going to CHICAGO pre-draft


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: papabear on June 17, 2007, 02:05:45 AM
Papabear says

Kobe in Chicago!! It wont work, He'd always be playing in Jordans foot steps. He needs his own steps and thats New York.

Papabear


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2007, 06:34:25 AM
Reading some draft comments, I realize that US scouts have little idea about Yi Jian Lian.

I mostly see him compared to Yao Ming, because both are 7 foot Chinese.  But Yi is a forward-tweener and won't be a center.  Yao also has more fundamental big man skills, while Yi is an athletic type (hoping to be in the Garnett mold).  Actually to call him the CBA version of Garnett wouldn't be a bad comparison.

Fox Sports has Yi going 8th, which is reasonable, but the writ-up is silly:

Quote
8.    Bobcats    Yi Jianlian    7-0, 240    PF    China    
Some compare him to Andrea Bargnani while others mention Toni Kukoc. He's skilled and athletic and will give the Bobcats a solid offensive threat — and someone who can make shots from the perimeter.
Yi is not an outside shooter.  One of the few players in the CBA (China) who doesn't shoot 3-pointers.  Yi has range out to about 16 feet.  Has a good mid-range game, and most effective on turnaround J's from within 10 feet.  One concern is that he prefers to take them from the center of the lane, which likely won't be so available in the NBA.  Yi also scores on putbacks and on drives from the high post.  Is also good on the break.  Quick with long strides.  I compare him more to Lamar Odom.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 17, 2007, 11:22:00 AM
a deal that works

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=981~110~2429~2381~3032~885&teams=4~4~13~13~13~13

the problem is Kobe will be no better off in Chicago than in L.A.

the real deal is Kobe saying he will leave in 2 years and forcing Lakers to take this deal.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2986~165~255~2754~2772~981~110&teams=13~13~13~13~13~18~18

of course Knicks would throw in at least 2 #1 picks.

Bottom line I don't think Kobe gets moved at all and Knicks should focus on Rashard offering Frye and Crawford or Artest offering Frye and Jeffries.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 17, 2007, 11:36:39 AM
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

the Nagel rule lives.  assuming Kobe opts out in 2 years we are there for him.  We are in position to sign him long term.  That gives him the leverage he needs to force a deal NOW.  Chicago is not NY and there is the Jordan legacy.  In NY he can create his own legacy. 

so what does he have to work with?

Marbury and Curry of course.  However, Zeke could add a Webber for next year as well.  anyone care to comment on a
Kobe/Marbury/Q/Webber/Curry starting line-up?



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2007, 12:21:34 PM
I see both Nbadraftnet and draftexpress list Yi's birthday as Oct. 27, 1984,
meaning he's 22 and 23 when the season gets rolling.
I found the Draftexpress NBA Comparison amusing:

Quote
Comparisons:
Best Case: Pau Gasol
Worst Case: Channing Frye

They think he's a PF/C, while I'd peg him as an Odom/Tim Thomas type of SF/PF forward hybrid.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2007, 12:23:53 PM
Seems we worked out Belinelli, Fazekas and Cook last Wednesday.
Any word on how that went?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on June 17, 2007, 12:40:19 PM
I thought it was fairly lame of Kobe to get his little drama in gear during the NBA Finals.

This is kind of cool, though I can't say I understand how it was put together or what a yellow triangle means:
(http://www.draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1181876042.jpg)

Notice that all of our guards are below average defenders, with Crawford even in the poor defense/poor offense quadrant.  I'm unsure how JJ Skinny rates as a slightly above average on offense.

Anyone know how to make that bigger?
Here's the Url: http://www.draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1181876042.jpg

Actually, the whole breakdown of the Knicks is worth reading:
http://www.draftexpress.com/blogs.php?blogid=12&a=2115&mod=comment

I agree agree agree on the Frye and Craw comments:

Quote
Channing Frye took a step back from his explosive rookie season, but still has the best overall potential of all the Knicks youth and should be more productive on a team with more stability.  Frye has excellent shooting touch and is smart with the basketball. On a functional team with a tight rotation he should become an excellent offensive option from the high post, capable of executing plays.

Quote
Jamal Crawford continues to show a positive attitude and a dedication toward improvement, but he is still a hit-or-miss proposition when it comes to his ability to read the court and make intelligent basketball plays. As spectacular as he is, Crawford must grasp the fundamentals of decision making before a winning team would consider him to have any value at the price he’s paid.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 17, 2007, 02:16:32 PM
http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

the Nagel rule lives.  assuming Kobe opts out in 2 years we are there for him.  We are in position to sign him long term.  That gives him the leverage he needs to force a deal NOW.  Chicago is not NY and there is the Jordan legacy.  In NY he can create his own legacy. 

so what does he have to work with?

Marbury and Curry of course.  However, Zeke could add a Webber for next year as well.  anyone care to comment on a
Kobe/Marbury/Q/Webber/Curry starting line-up?


What do you intend to give up to get Kobe?  I suspect Curry is the only player the Knicks have that is going to draw any interest at all - if even he draws much - you cannot trade a first round draft choice next year, and you are going to have to match salary going back to LA for a trade to work.  What do you intend to give up that any GM in his right mind is going to want?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 17, 2007, 02:36:49 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2986~165~255~2754~2772~981~110&teams=13~13~13~13~13~18~18

I'll repeat my previously stated offer for you.

is is a fair offer?

I'll let you be the judge.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 17, 2007, 02:51:15 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2986~165~255~2754~2772~981~110&teams=13~13~13~13~13~18~18

I'll repeat my previously stated offer for you.

is is a fair offer?

I'll let you be the judge.
One of the three best players in the game for five guys you really, really want to get rid of.  Oh yeah, it'll work, provided you remove Kupchak's brain first.

Why would LA want to make that deal?  What's in it for them?  The chance to become the third team to be bitterly disappointed in Stevie Franchise?  The thrill of watching Jamaal Crawford not play defense against Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli four times a year for the next five years?

LA will want a great player, expiring contracts and draft choices.  You give them none of that.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 17, 2007, 03:57:30 PM
like I said before i don't think Kobe gets dealt at all but This deal would also include draft choices and other than Stevie( money must be included) the rest do have talent. 

You never get equal value in trading a superstar be it Jabbar, Erving, Barkley etc.

as I said  I prefer to think about Lewis or Artest.  Your post has merit.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: nagel100 on June 17, 2007, 03:58:27 PM
By the way I don't want to get rid of Lee or Balkman.

OK?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 17, 2007, 04:10:53 PM
like I said before i don't think Kobe gets dealt at all but This deal would also include draft choices and other than Stevie( money must be included) the rest do have talent. 

You never get equal value in trading a superstar be it Jabbar, Erving, Barkley etc.

as I said  I prefer to think about Lewis or Artest.  Your post has merit.
Knicks cannot trade a first round draft choice until the 2009 draft, right?  Or did the league do away with the Stepien rule that forbade trading away first round choices in consecutive years?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: trains1 on June 17, 2007, 05:29:59 PM
I don't think you can get back even talent when a superstar demands a trade. Was the Shaq trade in even kind?


Title: Marbury Trade
Post by: chipstern on June 17, 2007, 05:53:07 PM
Knicks still owe Utah (via Phoenix) a #1 from the Marbury Trade. 

There were various levels of Lottery Protection, growing less expansive with each passing year until 2010, when the pick is there's....PERIOD. 

Speaking of trades...


Title: No Statute Of Limitations On Stupidity: A Knicks Fable
Post by: chipstern on June 17, 2007, 06:06:39 PM
In light of Tony Parker’s MVP performance, upstaging the anticipated coronation of King LeBron, is it worth recalling the galling, appalling legacy of Stormrin’ Mormon Icon Dave Wreckit and his only misbegotten son, the never to be forgotten, potatoes au rotten, Unseemly Dim Laden? 

(http://www.kipaddotta.com/images/spilt-milk.jpg)

As in couldashouldwoulda...ohnevermind. 

My mind, in a healing process, had banished such thoughts, but through the use of sacred vespers and the laying on of hands, I was able to recall yet anew, the Erik Strickland and Patrick Ewing deals. 

As I recall, Peter Vescey was the only scribe to call out Wreckit, Scribes’ Hack Hall of Fame fave, for his role in setting this franchise back to pre-Bronze Age/Darrell Imhoff/Barry Kramer/Art Heyman standards of wrecklency, by leaking the Ewing Trade to Lupica, thus inspiring Mark Cuban and Nellie to talk Joe Dumars out of accepting all of Seattle’s gaaaar-baggge, and dooming us to accept it instead. 

Now Dim Laden, already reeling under the blow back of re-acquiring John Wallace for an appreciative Jeff Wan Runty (who showed his gratitude by burying the defensively challenged Wallace under the bench), traded Wallace and that years’ Knicks’ # 1 to Dallas for one Erick Strickland.  Wan Runty, still attempting to shorten his rotation to three players, all named Larry Johnson (about to permanently break down under the weight of carrying the team and Wan Runty on his shoulders piggyback style),   found little use for Strickland, and this is where the visionary aspects of Dim Laden’s masterful wheeling and dealing began to propogate exponentially.  (http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/johnson_larry0530.jpg)

We are too weak to delineate all of the brilliant variations on the Ewing deal that Wreckit and Dim Laden concocted , nor the salary cap implications (such as Chris Dudley and our #1 for the earthly remains of Luckless Longley and the Glenn Rice for Shandon Anderson-Howard Eisley debacle, eventually for good measure dropping hoops doorstop Travis Knight’s eminently tradable ending contract in training camp to make roster space for Slavko Vranes the Whoopingcough Crane), but having already committed Wallace (a former #1 pick) and that year’s #1 to Dallas for Erick Strickland, Dim Laden re-routed one of the #1’s from the Ewing trade (the Lakers’ I believe) to Vancouver for Othellla Harrington. 

Having just cashed in THREE MOTHERFUCKING #1 Draft Picks on Othella Fucking Harrington, Dim Laden presented this latest gift to appreciative horticulturist Wan Runty, the Luther Burbank of the short rotation, and zen master of the Black Hole Offense, who knew from past experience, just what to do with this new Dim Laden seedling...plant it under the bench. 

Somehow that stray #1 which was burning a hole in Dim Laden’s pocket was rerouted to Atlanta in the trade that off-loaded Abudur-Rahim and brought a lottery #1 (Pau Gasol) to the Grizzlies, and Atlanta, not content to sunder their own future, ended up re-routing the #1 from the Strickland-Harrington trade to Indiana, as recompense for God knows’ what.  Donnie Walsh, took this gift at the bottom of the draft to choose (at #27) Jamal Tinsley. 

Picking next, at #28, the Spurs chose a young European PG who was purportedly on Dim Laden’s radar screen. 

His name?

Tony Parker


Why torture myself again in such a manner?

Well, firstly, while one cannot cry over spilt milk, one still has to bend over to wipe it up.  In this case, some of it leaked under the fridge and left a sour stench. 

(http://sportsmed.