Escape from Elba

Sports => Basketball => Topic started by: Administrator on July 30, 2018, 11:32:43 AM

Title: Knicks
Post by: Administrator on July 30, 2018, 11:32:43 AM
Discuss the Knicks chances this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2018, 01:05:56 PM
At least 3 of them have a good chance of being turned away from a nightclub for being underaged.

Bon anniversaire, Frankly Bones. May your hard work pay off exponentially.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:26:42 PM
Yikes.  I guess all past history just got wiped.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 01:33:50 PM
Yikes.  I guess all past history just got wiped.

Facil and BoD didn't get wiped, anywho. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:37:47 PM
Hopefully the Search Feature will work better in this iteration.
The Past was always there, just largely inaccessible.
Title: Meanwhile...
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 01:38:00 PM
There was a YouTube posting about our Platinum Pup, Kevin Knox. 

At the conclusion, there was a picture of the coach/mentor Kevin has been working out with. 

ROD STRICKLAND.

Interesting, no?

Would indicate that he is still working really hard on his handle. 

Keep growing young man, keep growing. 

6'9"

6'11" would be sweet. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 30, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
Hoopshype had something about that, mentioning that Strickland is Kyrie's godfather (?), and connecting rather far apart dots I presume.


Melo continues to sound like a doofus.
His initial response to this Summer was he wouldn't take a buyout and wouldn't accept subsequently getting waived.  His pride was in his own way.  Coming off the bench is not on the table for him, because he doesn't consider team success, but just his own desire/want/self-estimation. 

Othersowise, glad they got this place back up and running.  I thought it might be down for weeks.
Title: Wubalubadubdub!
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2018, 02:24:09 PM
We out here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 03:21:36 PM
Hoopshype had something about that, mentioning that Strickland is Kyrie's godfather (?), and connecting rather far apart dots I presume.


Melo continues to sound like a doofus.
His initial response to this Summer was he wouldn't take a buyout and wouldn't accept subsequently getting waived.  His pride was in his own way.  Coming off the bench is not on the table for him, because he doesn't consider team success, but just his own desire/want/self-estimation. 

Othersowise, glad they got this place back up and running.  I thought it might be down for weeks.

Perry got rid of his contract.  No way the team could move forward with such a me-Me-ME presence. 

Perry got back some decent assets: Kanter...Mudiay...Robinson. 

Melo heading where he wanted to be.  Knicks heading where we want them to be.

Kevin Knox and Timmy Hardaway will get to be the Alpha Dawgs while Kristaps is rehabbing.  Hezonja will get an opportunity to show what he's got under the hood with consistent minutes.  Kornet gets real minutes to make a case for himself both as a back-up center and a genuine NBA stretch-4.  Mitchell Robinson has the opportunity to make a case for himself as one of our BIGS of the future.  Enes Kanter will have an opportunity to be a dominant presence at the five-spot, an offensive focus in the blocks (and, God willing, like Embid, at long-range) and to demonstrate to Coach Fizdale and GM Perry's satisfaction that he can be more than a one-trick pony (well, two tricks, with low post scoring and an elite level of rebounding) and that he can evolve into a dependable defender and rim protector.  The PG scrum of Ntilikina-Burke-Mudiay will get to battle for minutes and survival.  While pups such as Dotson and Vonleh get to make a case for themselves as rotation players. 

Baby steps. 

Onwards.   
Title: We are all mere pups
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2018, 04:53:21 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING DWEEBS
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 05:54:53 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Dweeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I thought Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2018, 06:42:04 PM
I saw something about a php command being out dated and deemphasized like the triangle offense and the GOP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 07:51:49 PM
............and the Obamas.
Title: Indy
Post by: chipstern on July 30, 2018, 08:40:03 PM
MSG replaying an early November game at the Garden where Knicks took on the Pacers. 

Occurred to me while taking it in, that both O'Quinn AND McDermott, and their back door game chemistry, are together again on the 2018-2019 Pacers. 
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 08:45:45 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 30, 2018, 08:48:59 PM
Kid might find real thoughts are infiltrating his echo chamber.

The Pacers also grabbed Tyreke Evans for a very solid free agency. Does Nate have Reke play the 3? Does O’Quinn displace Young as a starter?

O’Quinn, Turner, Evans, Oladipo, and Collinson gives them an offensively versatile unit with double decker rim protection.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: Kam on July 30, 2018, 09:44:02 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

Improved quote function - better visibility.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 10:31:25 PM
Celts get ZIPPO for Abdel Nader.....

(player they received has been waived)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 30, 2018, 10:34:19 PM
Pacers

Collison, Oladipo, Bogdonavich, Young, Turner

But I'd sure be looking for Sabonis to challenge Young.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING DWEEBS
Post by: carlos123 on July 30, 2018, 10:47:13 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Dweeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I thought Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

C'mon Chico, you love to read what I write. I know you're just pretending. Lo sé
Title: Porzingis on track to return by Kristmas
Post by: Kam on July 31, 2018, 12:33:59 AM
He’s going to come back a different monster,” Sanders said in the installment. “His skills are more like a small forward. He was hard to deal with before, but he’ll be much harder to deal with after. He’s got the sense of urgency of a veteran going after his last contract.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:36:44 AM
Workin out with Summer Sanders - that doesnt suck.

- always believed we would see Porzingis before midseason
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 01:16:07 AM
No rush for KP.

I forgot about Sabonis. He could indeed start. It wouldn’t be a bad move.

With Evans on board, one of Collison or Bogdonovic is going to wind up coming off the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
I was watching video of Vonleh playing perimeter D. He may not get a lot of steals or blocks, but he really gets low, hustles his ass off moving his feet while keeping balance and position.

With KP out for most or all of the year, our best lineup might be Robinson Vonleh Knox Hardaway Ntilikina. This isn’t an opening night starting group with the players being so raw, but it’s got key defensive standouts, guys who get shots off, who run in transition, who board and put back, and are better athletes than their size should permit, not that they’re not big for their positions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 05:03:34 AM
That team might be able to win a Championship . . . in Summer League.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on July 31, 2018, 08:18:46 AM
Hoopshype had something about that, mentioning that Strickland is Kyrie's godfather (?), and connecting rather far apart dots I presume.


Melo continues to sound like a doofus.
His initial response to this Summer was he wouldn't take a buyout and wouldn't accept subsequently getting waived.  His pride was in his own way.  Coming off the bench is not on the table for him, because he doesn't consider team success, but just his own desire/want/self-estimation. 

Othersowise, glad they got this place back up and running.  I thought it might be down for weeks.

Perry got rid of his contract.  No way the team could move forward with such a me-Me-ME presence. 

Perry got back some decent assets: Kanter...Mudiay...Robinson. 

Melo heading where he wanted to be.  Knicks heading where we want them to be.

Kevin Knox and Timmy Hardaway will get to be the Alpha Dawgs while Kristaps is rehabbing.  Hezonja will get an opportunity to show what he's got under the hood with consistent minutes.  Kornet gets real minutes to make a case for himself both as a back-up center and a genuine NBA stretch-4.  Mitchell Robinson has the opportunity to make a case for himself as one of our BIGS of the future.  Enes Kanter will have an opportunity to be a dominant presence at the five-spot, an offensive focus in the blocks (and, God willing, like Embid, at long-range) and to demonstrate to Coach Fizdale and GM Perry's satisfaction that he can be more than a one-trick pony (well, two tricks, with low post scoring and an elite level of rebounding) and that he can evolve into a dependable defender and rim protector.  The PG scrum of Ntilikina-Burke-Mudiay will get to battle for minutes and survival.  While pups such as Dotson and Vonleh get to make a case for themselves as rotation players. 

Baby steps. 

Onwards.

All looks good other than the PG situation (as I posted before re- Frank not looking like he will ever be more than a great promise...). That is a weak spot- where we'll need to improve via draft or trade. And needless to say will happily eat my hat on that one...
Title: Zup The Down Staircase
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 09:30:10 AM
I think our pups will benefit from a consistent system, unbridled competition, and team mates who can create their own shot. 

Worth noting that while Fizdale is willing to toss his pups into the deep end of the pool, to make their way and own their mistakes, Hornacek/Rambis basically abdicated player development.  Jack was a solid sender, and a positive presence, but Frank should've gotten more burn. 

I thought the difference between game 1 and game 2 of summer league was promising.  Frank needs to look for his own offense more often, though I thought it was interesting that when pressed, Coach Fizdale indicated that in terms of Ntilikina's development, he doesn't want to completely contradict Frank's base instincts and who he is as a player. 

A delicate balancing act. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2018, 10:14:37 AM
Celts get ZIPPO for Abdel Nader.....

(player they received has been waived)

Payroll got lighter

It was a planned salary dump.

Nader was guarnteed $$, Purvis was not.

No room for Nader as Bird got 15th roster spot.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 11:17:25 AM
I wish we traded for Rubio when available.
We would have some stability at PG.
Would make the whole team function better.
And we'd be further along.


Seems if you had someone on ignore previously, they are still on ignore in the new version, despite no explicit Ignore button. 
So I'm guessing you can go into your Profile Settings and add someone to Ignore from there.  But I haven't actually looked into it.



Title: Forum
Post by: Kam on July 31, 2018, 12:01:37 PM
It seems we lost some people or there are those that haven't made the switch to the new forum.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:07:00 PM
I wish we traded for Rubio when available.
We would have some stability at PG.
Would make the whole team function better.
And we'd be further along.


Seems if you had someone on ignore previously, they are still on ignore in the new version, despite no explicit Ignore button. 


Cool.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
I wish we traded for Rubio when available.
We would have some stability at PG.
Would make the whole team function better.
And we'd be further along.


Seems if you had someone on ignore previously, they are still on ignore in the new version, despite no explicit Ignore button. 
So I'm guessing you can go into your Profile Settings and add someone to Ignore from there.  But I haven't actually looked into it.

Love Rubio.  Indeed. 

You are PRESUMING that the second-hand sources we were privy to were actually...correct

Ostensibly, the Wolves were willing to trade Rubio for Rose. 

Ostensibly, Phil Jackson was insisting on the Wolves adding Bjelica to the package. 

I'm not sure I buy into either scenario. 

Trades, that go down, it would seem, time and time again, are not played out in the media. 

Having said that, a great facilitator...a good rebounder and defender. 

A career .385 FG%.  Upped his efficiency considerably last season. 

Better team mates?  Better system?

Reminds me of the tears which flowed when Dolan put the kibosh on the Kyle Lowry deal, as if the Lowry who evolved under Coach Casey, would have done vaguely as well in our chaos oven. 

I'm happy with our current PG scrum. 

And if, God forbid, Kyrie Irving came available in the summer of 2019, well, que sera, Ricky Rubio. 

PS: I'm not feeling all that confident that Kyrie represents a real option for us.  Celtics are capable of getting to the NBA Finals.  Of course, Porzingis-Knox-Irving could make for a viable contender, but I do not see Irving leaving the Celtics. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:25:03 PM
Knicks werent sure at the time if Rubio would be better for us than Rose.  Recall Derek was once very very good

When it became apparent we DID benefit from the deal, it was too late.

No, I dont believe Phil demanded Bjelica.  May have shown interest, sure.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 12:26:36 PM
Chip - does Kyrie really want to live in Boston when he has his choice of......well...........the entire NBA nation pretty much?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2018, 12:57:43 PM
I'm not sure why KI wouldn't want to live in the Boston area, I suppose he could live on Nantucket or the Cape and jet to Logan and get to the TD Garden in about 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 01:06:45 PM
Chip was implying that having a shot at KI coming up is better than having had Rubio and having him still.

“I’m happy with our current PG scrum.”

Works for me as well.

Seasons’ first halves change people’s opinions and plans.

I’m just happy we have two solid guys who can defend our to the perimeter.

Waiting to see if Fizz spin has an actual engine behind it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:11:43 PM
 
You are PRESUMING that the second-hand sources we were privy to were actually...correct

Ostensibly, the Wolves were willing to trade Rubio for Rose. 
Ostensibly, Phil Jackson was insisting on the Wolves adding Bjelica to the package. 

I'm not sure I buy into either scenario. 
Trades, that go down, it would seem, time and time again, are not played out in the media. 

Lots of things leak out.
Allegedly Phil was holding out for an extra piece.  And Minny was unwilling.  Then just before deadline Phil finally agreed to the 1-4-1 Rose-Rubio swap but Minny was annoyed, had moved on, and said No.
That's what has been reported.

Not exactly verification, but Minny did subsequently expel Rubio and add Rose.

I'm no fan of Kyrie's.  But that's another discussion.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 01:20:42 PM
https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmer-fredette-return-nba-160531208.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/jimmer-fredette-return-nba-160531208.html)

Jimmer and Team Fredette play semifinal Thursday 9 PM on ESPN
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:26:00 PM
A Rockets fan twitter feed or somesuch speculates that HOU wants to trade Ryanderson's expiring for a longer contract belonging to a wing defender, to replace Ariza (and protects them from Melo's deficiencies, I'd add).

The 4 targets they came up with:
Quote
Bazemore, Courtney Lee, DeMarre Carroll, and Nic Batum were the targets we identified.

Batum would be a nice target and a realistic CHA salary dump.
DMC had a nice year for BKY, after an injury-plagued TOR stint.
Courtly fits in with the Rockets style, and it helps that he doesn't need lots of shots.  But why would the Knix take on Ryanders $20.4M?

Courtly and Lance for Ryan Anderson?
We'd get outside volume shooting while KZ is out.
And more importantly ditch $20M off next year's payroll.
have first crack at re-signing Ryan at a reasonable level if he fits in.
Gives HOU 2 wing defenders.  They have a few roster spots open (and should add a backup PG)  Edit: they added MCW.

I'd do it.
We had trouble finding value for Courtly last year.  Reportedly Knix were hoping to acquire a 1st rounder which nobody was willing to give, despite Courtly having a strong 1st half of the season.
He's a year older, so good deals aren't going to be easy to come by.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 01:33:58 PM
Pacers

Collison, Oladipo, Bogdonavich, Young, Turner

But I'd sure be looking for Sabonis to challenge Young.

I think this is it, although Reke will close a lot of games. Sabonis perhaps as well, although it's unclear if Myles/Sabonis on the court simultaneously is two-fifths of the Pacers' best lineup.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:34:35 PM
Rockets Post-trade:
Chris Paul / Harden / MCW
Harden / Gordon / Gerald Green
PJ Tucker / Courtly
Melo / Lance
Capela / Nene

Basically, Lance replaces Luc M&M; Courtly replaces Ariza (sizing down a little there); and Melo replaces Ryan Anderson.
Side benefit: Melo already knows Courtly and Lance.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 01:38:26 PM
A Rockets fan twitter site or somesuch speculates that HOU wants to trade Ryanderson's expiring for a longer contract belonging to a wing defender, to replace Ariza (and protects them from Melo's deficiencies, I'd add).

The 4 targets they came up with:
Quote
Bazemore, Courtney Lee, DeMarre Carroll, and Nic Batum were the targets we identified.

Batum would be a nice target and a realistic CHA salary dump.
DMC had a nice year for BKY, after an injury-plagued TOR stint.
Courtly fits in with the Rockets style, and it helps that he doesn't need lots of shots.  But why would the Knix take on Ryanders $20.4M?

Courtly and Lance for Ryan Anderson?
We'd get outside volume shooting while KZ is out.
And more importantly ditch $20M off next year's payroll.
have first crack at re-signing Ryan at a reasonable level if he fits in.
Gives HOU 2 wing defenders.  They have a few roster spots open (and should add a backup PG)

I'd do it.
We had trouble finding value for Courtly last year.  Reportedly Knix were hoping to acquire a 1st rounder which nobody was willing to give, despite Courtly having a strong 1st half of the season.
He's a year older, so good deals aren't going to be easy to come by.

Courtly earns 13m next year, Lance has about 1m guaranteed, so it doesn't save us any money, it saves Houston $7m.  Not worth it for simply more shooting for a lottery bound team.

This deal makes no sense for the Knicks unless we are talking serious draft compensation. Similarly, don't see the Nets or Hawks biting. Hornets, maybe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 01:54:07 PM
Oh, I saw Lance listed as $7M for next year.
If we can bail on Lance for just $1M next year, then it isn't any help.
Also, I thought Anderson was expiring.  The article I read only mentioned his next year's salary, so I didn't check to see he had another year at $21M after that.
With 2 years left, it's just a bad contract we don't want.

Maybe they can flip Anderson to CHA for Batum's even more bloated 3 year deal.  Batum would be great for HOU.  He's been miscast as Scottie Pippen in CHA.  But as a 3rd or 4th option who can focus more on defense and facilitating, he'd be terrific.  If he stays healthy that is.
Batum is an upgrade over (the lost) Ariza.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on July 31, 2018, 02:00:50 PM
A Rockets fan twitter site or somesuch speculates that HOU wants to trade Ryanderson's expiring for a longer contract belonging to a wing defender, to replace Ariza (and protects them from Melo's deficiencies, I'd add).

The 4 targets they came up with:
Quote
Bazemore, Courtney Lee, DeMarre Carroll, and Nic Batum were the targets we identified.

Batum would be a nice target and a realistic CHA salary dump.
DMC had a nice year for BKY, after an injury-plagued TOR stint.
Courtly fits in with the Rockets style, and it helps that he doesn't need lots of shots.  But why would the Knix take on Ryanders $20.4M?

Courtly and Lance for Ryan Anderson?
We'd get outside volume shooting while KZ is out.
And more importantly ditch $20M off next year's payroll.
have first crack at re-signing Ryan at a reasonable level if he fits in.
Gives HOU 2 wing defenders.  They have a few roster spots open (and should add a backup PG)

I'd do it.
We had trouble finding value for Courtly last year.  Reportedly Knix were hoping to acquire a 1st rounder which nobody was willing to give, despite Courtly having a strong 1st half of the season.
He's a year older, so good deals aren't going to be easy to come by.

Courtly earns 13m next year, Lance has about 1m guaranteed, so it doesn't save us any money, it saves Houston $7m.  Not worth it for simply more shooting for a lottery bound team.

This deal makes no sense for the Knicks unless we are talking serious draft compensation. Similarly, don't see the Nets or Hawks biting. Hornets, maybe.

Correct you are. 

Anderson Trade makes zero sense unless Houston is willing to pony up draft picks. 

An considering that their pick would fall somewhere between 25-30, and we are saving them serious money, I'd think two #1 picks sounds about right. 

Having said that, why don't we simply get one of those printer guns and fire it repeatedly into our foot. 

Anderson is due 21 million dollars in 2019-2020. 

Yes, by all means, let's take away floor time from Kornet and dump our veteran leadership for a one-dimensional shooter who just turned 30, and pay him his bloated salary as opposed to signing a top free agent in 2019. 

Genius. 

PS: I do get tired, Tired, TIRED of the constant pissing upon Lance Thomas, whose defensive skill set and leadership and abillity to hit the odd three pointer (not unlike Trevor Ariza, no) is apparently not deemed sexy enough for Knick fans.  DUH. 

PPS: By all means, if Thomas and/or Lee could be moved ending contracts or cap space or draft picks, sure, why not...we're in rebuilding mode.  But Anderson was a lousy option in 2017, is a lousy option in 2018, and will be a fucking albatross in 2019...again, a good role player, a drop dead shooter, but motherfuckers complain about Hardaway and Noah's contracts?  Are you shitting me? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on July 31, 2018, 02:21:30 PM
http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24245142/nba-first-league-betting-sponsor-deal-mgm (http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/24245142/nba-first-league-betting-sponsor-deal-mgm)

The NBA has become the first major U.S. sports league to sign an official betting sponsor.

On Tuesday, commissioner Adam Silver announced that the league struck a deal with MGM that will give the gaming company rights to use league highlights, names, logos and its direct data feed, as well as exclusively market itself as the official gaming partner of the NBA and WNBA.

Industry sources pegged the deal to be for three years and at least $25 million.


The next step for the Godfather is to get some of the vig.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on July 31, 2018, 04:01:56 PM
Oh, I saw Lance listed as $7M for next year.
If we can bail on Lance for just $1M next year, then it isn't any help.
Also, I thought Anderson was expiring.  The article I read only mentioned his next year's salary, so I didn't check to see he had another year at $21M after that.
With 2 years left, it's just a bad contract we don't want.

Maybe they can flip Anderson to CHA for Batum's even more bloated 3 year deal.  Batum would be great for HOU.  He's been miscast as Scottie Pippen in CHA.  But as a 3rd or 4th option who can focus more on defense and facilitating, he'd be terrific.  If he stays healthy that is.
Batum is an upgrade over (the lost) Ariza.

Yes to all this. Batum is overpaid as a better-passing Ariza, and he brings in a bunch of extra question marks (Is he as willing as Ariza to be last on the pecking order offensively? Can he be consistent enough with the corner threes? Can he play any small-ball 4, if needed?). That said, Houston needs a roll of the dice, beyond simply signing Melo and James Ennis.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 04:04:44 PM
Rockets Post-trade:
Chris Paul / Harden / MCW
Harden / Gordon / Gerald Green
PJ Tucker / Courtly
Melo / Lance
Capela / Nene

Basically, Lance replaces Luc M&M; Courtly replaces Ariza (sizing down a little there); and Melo replaces Ryan Anderson.
Side benefit: Melo already knows Courtly and Lance.

Good stuff, though Fizz does state he likes Thomas.  Good glue guy all around who just cant provide offense at a good enough level.

Rockets like Zhou Qui as well.

Is Melo really a starter there?  Sure would keep him happy

https://houseofhouston.com/2018/07/26/houston-rockets-rotation-anthony/ (https://houseofhouston.com/2018/07/26/houston-rockets-rotation-anthony/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on July 31, 2018, 05:00:48 PM
Since it fits so well for HOU, I made a meek attempt to turn my Lance/Courtly trade into a 3-way.  About all I found was NYK gets Wes Mathews ($18M expiring).  And HOU would throw in 2 (late round) #1's to DAL for taking on Ryan Anderson.  Moving Wes would open room for Doncic to start.  And some extra late round picks to offset taking on Ryanderson's $21M next year (-- is that enough?)
Ryan replaces retired Dirk next year.

Wes turns 32 to start next season.
So maybe DAL was planning to re-sign him at a reasonable rate.
And he allows them to bring Doncic along slower.  But they threw Smith Jr into the starting fire last year.

Knix would swap Courtly's steadiness for Wes' 3's and effort.
Sort of a wash.  And we'd save Courtly's near $13M next year.
Court turns 33 to start next year, so we're not getting a 1st round pick for him.  Not too exciting for NY, but we'd get a comparable vet, and free up $13M in cap space for next year.  I wouldn't worry much about losing good soldier Lance.

Real good deal for HOU (imo)
Decent for DAL (if they aren't too attached to Wes and okay with Ryan)
Decent, mostly cap space move for NYK

Anyone in on the amended (not retarded) trade?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 05:39:40 PM
Isaiah Hartenstein now with the Rockets as well

Just 21 but a stud.

G League -

6.6 boards, 1.1 blk in just 18 minutes per.

56/34/69 shooting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 05:54:17 PM
https://twitter.com/Jimmerosity/status/1024401814706241536 (https://twitter.com/Jimmerosity/status/1024401814706241536)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on July 31, 2018, 07:15:11 PM
I just got offered really cheap tickets (read: free) to see Jimmer play on Thursday night in Baltimore.  I'm not going to take them.  Kiid's right.  I'm not as fun as I once was.  20 years ago I'd jumped on them.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 07:43:08 PM
It’s good Jimmer isn’t just letting himself go now that his NBA career is over. He may make it into the Big3 League one day.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on July 31, 2018, 07:53:59 PM
You deserve for Jimmer to be a 2019-20 Knick, with minutes

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on July 31, 2018, 08:05:01 PM
He did fine in Westchester but I think he makes more money in China.

Jamel Artis is with the Kings for two years partially guaranteed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 01, 2018, 04:12:23 AM
He did fine in Westchester but I think he makes more money in China.

Jamel Artis is with the Kings for two years partially guaranteed.

Whatsoever I think of Jimmer...I was always deeply offended by how Kurt Rambis treated him as a Knick when he got his call-up.  Went out of his way to publically mock him.  I was at a Garden game with Merciless; the fans were pulling for Jimmer, and he nailed a three as I recall.  His limitations notwithstanding, the kid worked hard in Westchester to improve his game.  Kurt Rambis was a smug douche, and I am glad that Mills jettisoned his ass and Hornacek's as well, the minute season ended.  Eliminating the last stench of Phil Jackson's uber alles. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2018, 05:13:24 AM
There was some talk that Jimmer had a star attitude, so he might have contributed to the problem.  But it does seem that our coaches often tend to be rather petty about things.  our players too -- such as Marbury jealous of the attention Frye received; Melo dissing Lin's coming out.  Knix specialize in self-inflicted problems.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 01, 2018, 09:40:01 AM
Jimmer ran himself out of every NBA stop because no coaches liked him. This one wasn't on the Knicks. There's really no reason to constantly come back to this issue.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2018, 10:12:30 AM
He did fine in Westchester but I think he makes more money in China.

Jamel Artis is with the Kings for two years partially guaranteed.

Whatsoever I think of Jimmer...I was always deeply offended by how Kurt Rambis treated him as a Knick when he got his call-up.  Went out of his way to publically mock him.  I was at a Garden game with Merciless; the fans were pulling for Jimmer, and he nailed a three as I recall.  His limitations notwithstanding, the kid worked hard in Westchester to improve his game.  Kurt Rambis was a smug douche, and I am glad that Mills jettisoned his ass and Hornacek's as well, the minute season ended.  Eliminating the last stench of Phil Jackson's uber alles.

I saw Rambis at summer league.  Are you sure he is gone entirely?

(maybe he is with Lakers now........but he was right there, second row, in an official capacity)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 01, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
I hadn't thought of it before but wasn't Rambis basically a latter-day Phil.  Makes sense they'd find a connection.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2018, 12:59:37 PM
Lakers - yep

Considering hiring Rambis (Magic driven) for bench or front office.  Some scribes hate the idea, citing NY problems.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 01, 2018, 01:32:39 PM
Lends credence to the idea that the Lakers are building a cluster fuck around LeBron. However it works, it will be entertaining.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 01, 2018, 01:39:14 PM
Yeah.....

Likely I wont watch as much LAL this year.

Like some others.........MAVS, especially.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 02, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
I take this to mean you think Rondo will beat out Ball for the starting job and for starter’s minutes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 04:10:19 PM
I take this to mean you think Rondo will beat out Ball for the starting job and for starter’s minutes.

Luke Walton has his work cut out for him. 

LeBron

Rondo, Deng, Beasley, Stephenson, McGee

Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Caldwell-Pope/Hart, Wagner

That's 12. 

Good luck with Pup Development or divining a rotation that keeps everyone involved, everyone happy. 

So, are we to assume LeBron is down with the Pups, or is he going to favor aged in oak vets? 

Stay tuned. 
Title: Draft Day Mulligan
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 04:14:53 PM
Meanwhile, having tried a similar approach for years, the Knicks double down on Pups. 

I like Mortiz Wagner's game; he impressed during the run up to the Final Fours. 

Be interesting to see if the Lakers end up with a case of buyer's remorse. 

Mortiz instead of Robinson. 

Russell instead of Porzingis.

[Cough] Ball...instead of Tatum. 
Title: Jimmer Is 29 And Counting
Post by: chipstern on August 02, 2018, 05:06:26 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:29:58 PM
I take this to mean you think Rondo will beat out Ball for the starting job and for starter’s minutes.

I like Rondo

If this is the case I see a 27-25 type split, at worst for Lonzo.  They can certainly play together a stretch but only if each is effective.

Makes little sense for Ball to not push 30+ minutes as the season goes
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:31:15 PM
Did he say DENG?

I dont think so
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:32:08 PM
Hart will be pushing for starter minutes

Rondo with the most to prove.
Title: Re: Jimmer Is 29 And Counting
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 06:37:54 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/02/the-jimmer-fredette-show-is-back-but-its-getting-sadder/)

Thanks for the reminder.  9 PM - feature game - ESPN

“I’ve always been pretty confident in my abilities to play the game and that if I get an opportunity to play consistently and be a part of team, then I feel like I’ve always been able to produce,” Fredette, the tournament’s leading scorer, told The Post this week in a phone interview. “And it’s great to be able to show that again.”

Every bucket Fredette drills brings back memories of his stellar college career, when he burst past overmatched Mountain West Conference defenses and redefined 3-point range.



As Jimmer recently said, the NBA has changed of late to fit his style.  All options open for 2019-20 or sooner

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 08:53:25 PM
Re:  overmatched Mountain West defenses....

Like this ganme vs Kawhi Leonard SDSU:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=310260252 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=310260252)

Jimmer gets 43 on 24 shots

Kawhi 22 on 20

I assume Mr Leonard was out there defensively as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on August 02, 2018, 09:28:36 PM
Post some Jeff Fryer box scores!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 02, 2018, 09:55:54 PM
Rough go thus far - down 11

Fraschilla raving about the players' ability in this game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 03, 2018, 01:47:45 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23825970/zach-lowe-basketball-tournament-nba-crunch
An article about an idea to stop the game at the 4 minute mark, and the first team to get 7 points more than the score of the leading team wins. 

It's an odd proposal designed to eliminate fouling.
What I find interesting is I often do that during a game.  When it gets down to 3 or 4 minutes left with a lead of 5 or whatever, I often think that the leading team just needs to reach xxx points and they'll win.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 03, 2018, 04:46:43 AM
If Lee, Thomas, and Noah retired at once would they be missed at all? Please go! What was the plan, senior leadership in the play-offs?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2018, 10:59:31 AM
Udonis Haslem: @shannonsharpe84 keeping it a trillion on this one. Let me just make this clear. I don’t got no issues with Draymond Green but what I will say is now a days people be talking crazy on that court. I’ve heard disrespect from men towards other men that people know they wouldn’t say on the streets. If u ain’t bout that or ready to get it in when u see the man you disrespected then just play ball and kill him with your game. I don’t promote violence but I also don’t promote disrespecting another man. If you ain’t, u never know when u gon have to hang that 2pc up!!!👊🏾😂😭🤣 #og

Well said by Haslem
Title: Re: Draft Day Mulligan
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 03, 2018, 11:04:02 AM
Meanwhile, having tried a similar approach for years, the Knicks double down on Pups. 

I like Mortiz Wagner's game; he impressed during the run up to the Final Fours. 

Be interesting to see if the Lakers end up with a case of buyer's remorse. 

Mortiz instead of Robinson. 

Russell instead of Porzingis.

[Cough] Ball...instead of Tatum.

Still a great pick

I dont think LeBron wins a title with just any PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on August 04, 2018, 11:28:18 AM
Putting aside (which is never easy) the Trump trolling, the Lebron interview on CNN, a long form session that make me respect him much more. He has as much to "lose" as MJ always had, but he goes for it. And keeps his cool. Powerful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 03:57:50 PM
Uh.................what?

So....

LaVar Ball says LBJ can win with his three kids and a fierce rebounder

Love this guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2018, 04:35:10 PM
Uh.................what?

So....

LaVar Ball says LBJ can win with his three kids and a fierce rebounder

Love this guy.

No surprise. He’s as empty of all but hot air as the rest of your fetishes.

Maybe LA can sign Lou Amundson to complete their quintet. I hear he’s not to busy.
Title: LaVar
Post by: carlos123 on August 04, 2018, 04:38:00 PM
LaVar Ball 2020

Endorsed by Chico Cartero, aka kiid

MOGA, Make Outrageous(ness) Great Again.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2018, 05:52:01 PM
Deng does not want to get shelved in LA again.

Loul Deng for Tim Hardaway straight up. It gives us a super clean cap in 2020, as Deng has 2 years left at 18 per, compared to Timmy’s 3. Lakes need more floor spreading and floor running. We could use more up front vets.

Kornet Kanter Mitchell Noah
Vonleh Deng Porzingis
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Lee Dotson
Burke Ntilikina Mudiay
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
Sure - book it

Give them 2 second rounders as well, as they surely see the game we are playing

Frank can then get 35 minutes at the 2

heh
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: josh on August 04, 2018, 07:38:09 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

You have but to log into your former screen name and all your old ignores will be back in place.

I will attempt to return that function if I get broader abilities than I have now. Wouldn't want you to have to be exposed to alternate perspectives.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING WEEBS
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 08:26:03 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Weeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

You have but to log into your former screen name and all your old ignores will be back in place.



Its blocked

Thats OK - I'm good.  Multiple iggys secured.
Title: Re: We are all mere pups OR TANKING DWEEBS
Post by: carlos123 on August 04, 2018, 09:41:57 PM
Bunch of friggin newbies in here, just like the Knicks.

Bunch of newbies and at least one Tanking Dweeb, me for the coming season. I mean, play hard and lose hard too.

When the forum went down, did you guys get an error message mentioning “bad behavior”? I mean, I though Chico had taken over the forum and kicked me out for “bad hombre”.  ;D

Damn - no IGGY function in the new room.

You have but to log into your former screen name and all your old ignores will be back in place.



Its blocked

Thats OK - I'm good.  Multiple iggys secured.

That's funny, only about 6 of us posting here. I guess you read only your own posts, well maybe yours plus boZ's.

Like Josh said very well:

Quote
Wouldn't want you to have to be exposed to alternate perspectives.

LOL
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 04, 2018, 10:00:33 PM
Give them 2 second rounders as well, as they surely see the game we are playing


They are trading short salary for current production. We offer no picks. If they don’t like it, we walk away.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 10:30:12 PM
oh wait - you were serious?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2018, 11:09:40 PM
I'm not a Tim Jr fan, but that's kinda crazy talk. 
Firts off, it would make more sense to move aging Courtly.
Then we have no G's capable of replacing Tim's scoring (except maybe Burke who seems best as a backup PG).
I really don't like the idea of moving an asset for nothing.
We did that with TyC, Shump, JEarl.  It makes the building process harder. 

The Lakes already have KCP at SG.
You could trade Tim for KCP, but why would the Lakes do that?
LAL need some steady players around LeBJ, not more erratic performers like Hardaway.  Maybe I'm wrong, but on-court isn't Hardaway turning into JEarl? -- an erratic bomber who can get hot and play inattentive D.  And LBJ has seen enough of playing with JEarl.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 11:15:58 PM
Speaking of Mr Smith, I am hearing HOU has interest

When you get a chance check out JRs line vs Golden State in the Finals during championship year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 04, 2018, 11:35:25 PM
JEarl has had some good games and stretches (so has Tim).
JEarl was a more talented player than Tim, while many of his flaws were of the character and self-inflicted variety.  From what I gather, Tim Jr is a genuine hard-worker.

You can match JEarl's good GS series with the playoffs where JEarl was out night-clubbing late and played like ish for the Knickers.
Hard to know when JEarl will show up, and it's becoming less frequent as he ages.

Not sure I get HOU's interest.
JEarl as Eric Gordon insurance?
Maybe Melo put in a good word.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 04, 2018, 11:42:01 PM
They seek a wing defender.   Yeah, he'd be on the court plenty.

Not sure when Melo will be.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 12:08:41 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 05, 2018, 12:29:37 AM
https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/m/eff6d86f-14b2-3335-bf0c-2cab5cc97610/ss_espn-projects-celtics-to.html)

Looks stupid to me, Kiid.

Even if one assumed that they "should have been" a 51 win team in 2017-18, the notion that adding Gordon Hayward will only add 2 games to that total seems bizarre, if one also assumes a full year for Kyrie and any growth for their rookies from last year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 12:57:10 AM
Disagree

You arent simply adding Hayward

You add Hayward and subtract (player x)

Same formula with Kyrie minutes.  Someone who was quite effective gets bounced.

Just 240 player minutes in a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:03:35 AM
I think there is opponents improvement to consider as well
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:09:18 AM
Hawks sign Alex Len

2 years 8.5
Title: Team direction
Post by: 11to89 on August 05, 2018, 01:21:42 AM
Just a basic comment that I'm pleased to see the Knicks' youth movement. I suppose time will tell which players develop as NYK mainstays, but regardless of next year's record, at least there's the impression of a new start and the hope of a logical potential future direction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 05:59:28 AM
I'm not a Tim Jr fan, but that's kinda crazy talk. 
Firts off, it would make more sense to move aging Courtly.
Then we have no G's capable of replacing Tim's scoring (except maybe Burke who seems best as a backup PG).
I really don't like the idea of moving an asset for nothing.
We did that with TyC, Shump, JEarl.  It makes the building process harder. 

The Lakes already have KCP at SG.
You could trade Tim for KCP, but why would the Lakes do that?
LAL need some steady players around LeBJ, not more erratic performers like Hardaway.  Maybe I'm wrong, but on-court isn't Hardaway turning into JEarl? -- an erratic bomber who can get hot and play inattentive D.  And LBJ has seen enough of playing with JEarl.

We have Lee, Mario, Dotson, Mudiay and Frank as functional shooting guards if we move Tim.

While it’s true that the Lakes have KCP and Hart at SG, they are moving as quick as they can into win now mode. This makes Deng’s contract, as useless to them as JoNo’s is to us, a big problem for LA. While expensive, Hardaway is far from useless. With all of LA’s playmakers, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep.

We’re not especially focused on winning now. Deng would be a good vet for both Knox and Vonleh to learn from. Adding Deng also gives us 3 major expiring deals to shop or eat the season after in JoNo, Deng, and Lee. We can use that 48 million in cap ballast to attack the market during the 2019 season before 2020 FA season gets started or use the space available in summer 2020 to make moves.

There is zero chance Deng gets run behind LBJ, Kuzma, and Wagner. There is a decent chance Timmy can keep pace with Hart and KCP and thereby carve out some minutes.

Mario at power forward is like Jimmer in the NBA, way out of his depth and in over his head. It’s not a position I want Knox playing at this point. Deng gives us another guy behind Vonleh and Thomas to man the spot ahead of Kevin & Mario while at the same time opening more minutes for those two on the perimeter in more natural positions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 05, 2018, 06:08:57 AM
I'd trade THJr for Wesley Matthews, an expiring contract and savvy veteran who would get enough PT to be credible in the locker room. The main reason would be I think THJr is taking up too much cap space over the remaining years of his contract.

But I wouldn't do it for Deng without the Lakers first this year. Deng's extra year is basically worth a first rounder because that's what it will take to ditch him. And, as Bo explained, he doesn't really offer enough on the court. I much prefer holding on to Timmy. (Also, the Lakers would prefer cap space to taking on a contract)

There's a lot to like about THJr. I'd be fine building through the draft and not targetting big fish in free agency, in which case keeping him makes some sense, even at the unfortunately inflated price. But if you think the Knicks have a shot at blue chip FA, trading THJr is a worthwhile so you can at least make a pitch at Kyrie-Butler or some such combo.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 06:23:58 AM
In a Matthews for THJ trade we’d have to give a pick or other asset to balance the deal.

DJ, Barnes, Doncic, THJ, Smith is a very interesting starting 5.

36 million over two years is a lot of salary to shed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 10:14:23 AM
In a Matthews for THJ trade we’d have to give a pick or other asset to balance the deal.
36 million over two years is a lot of salary to shed.

Wes will be 32 to start next year; Tim just 26.
We wouldn't need to add an asset.
it's just if they like Tim and we are ready to move on.

If we did such a deal, I'd want a follow-up deal in which we move Wes or Court.  Tim at least in theory takes some of the scoring pressure off of KZ.  Though maybe Burke and Knox can step up(?)

Dallas has an new and somewhat odd starting lineup and a rather  iffy bench. Right now looks like they'd start a Eurook, a 2nd year PG, ancient Dirk, along with DeAndretheGiant and good under-the-radar Barnes.  Not bad but a bit shaky and needs time to marinate.
Then their bench seems to be Dwight Powell, Barea, and aging notgimpybutnotfullyhealthy again Wes.  And a bunch of mystery guys including one from China's restive Far West.
Hmm, I didn't know Brunson (2nd round rook) was born in New Brunswick, NJ.  Lived in Cherry Hill til he was 12.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 10:45:20 AM
I'd be willing to flip Courtly +  ??  for Wes' expiring.
Give the Mavs a choice of Lance or Baker (or even Muddy, in my view).
We'd only be saving Courtly's next season $13M.
DAL get Courtly for next year (while Doncic learns the NBA), and a useful bench player, preferably Lance).

Certainly not exciting, but we'd allow Tim another year to find himself, move Courtly's money, while Wes is a comparable vet wing.  Also free up a roster spot by tossing in one of Lance/Baker/Mud.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 05, 2018, 11:38:16 AM
Sure, I'd do that as well. But I think Dallas would be less likely to do so than to acquire THJr, even with the extra year. THJr is much more appealing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:34:12 PM
Maxi Kleber is a solid player for Dallas.

I also like the potential of Collinsworth and Yanhuang

Certainly one of the teams I am interested in watching when they are on
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 01:43:23 PM
How about a contest -

Hardaway had 46 double digit efforts last year

He had 18 20+ point tallies

He had 5 games with 30+

(bear in mind this was over just 57 games)


So, make your picks for 2018-19

double digits - 20 and over - 30+


I will say 68 - 35 - 5

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 05, 2018, 02:17:11 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.


If you do see DAL, let us know how things mesh.
Some Q's:
Can Barnes take over the leadership role?
Can Doncic have a smooth transition?
 (I think he'll be very up and down in terms of play and minutes).
Can Smith Jr. reign in his wildness?
Can anyone get lobs to DeAndre?
Can the bench hold its own or not suck?
Can Dirk stay healthy and competitive?
Title: Likewise...
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 02:31:46 PM
"With all of LA’s playmakers the Knicks point guards, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep."

Ah, the dawg days of summer...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 02:58:21 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.


If you do see DAL, let us know how things mesh.
Some Q's:
Can Barnes take over the leadership role?
Can Doncic have a smooth transition?
 (I think he'll be very up and down in terms of play and minutes).
Can Smith Jr. reign in his wildness?
Can anyone get lobs to DeAndre?
Can the bench hold its own or not suck?
Can Dirk stay healthy and competitive?

FT%?  Hardaway?

heh - lol

Efficiency?  Do you like or hate PER?

I will say THJ hits a career high next year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles.

Title: Re: Likewise...
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:16:53 PM
"With all of LA’s playmakers the Knicks point guards, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep."

Ah, the dawg days of summer...

Charlie Ward likes our point guards.

http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/ (http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 03:34:11 PM
If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles.

Let me set this straight - as it appears you are quite easily swayed....

There has been no thought of salary dumping Tim Hardaway.  Hardaway is seen as a piece of the puzzle in our return to being a playoff team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Seeing things again?

Try less turpentine in your coffee
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 04:38:08 PM
If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles.

Where will Porzingis be then?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 04:48:04 PM
Starting center, all-star caliber, middle of a big contract, deep in the playoffs, healthy, happy, a Knick hopefully.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 04:55:26 PM
I think we can get into the Wizards of the past few seasons, i.e. 4-6 seed + short postseason, with Tim as the 5th starter or guard-wing off the bench paying what we pay him if many other things break right.

If he improves incrementally under Fizz, he could be a decent deal in year 3 and 4.

He’s sort of a backcourt ZBo, in terms of how you want to deploy him on what sort of teams.
Title: Moving Forward
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 06:28:55 PM
"With all of LA’s playmakers the Knicks point guards, Hardaway’s skill set could be a valuable option as someone to get the ball to out in transition, on cuts, or from deep."

Ah, the dawg days of summer...

Charlie Ward likes our point guards.

http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/ (http://nypost.com/2018/08/04/ex-knicks-guard-sees-trait-that-can-make-kevin-knox-a-star/)

Yes, I saw that piece.  Was very lifted by Ward's insights about KK's father and his spiritual/athletic pedigree. 

Charlie was very undervalued as a Knick.  His (and Houston's) evangelical predilections rubbed many Knicks fans the wrong way, and he was not the second coming of Tiny Archibald/Tim Hardaway Sr. offensively. 

But over time he became a dependable three point shooter, and was an effective facilitator, defensive stalwart and one tough little motherfucker (if one might characterize a 6'3" Heisman winning quarterback as...little). 

I have shared this particular story countless times, but it bears repeating.  I will always cherish my memory of Ward establishing position just to the right of the paint, a few feet above the baseline, and fearlessly holding his ground while absorbing an offensive foul from Shaquille O'Neal, who had built up a full head of steam, and simply obliterated Charlie. 

Who got the call. 

"If holding Hardaway spoils our starphucking expoditions, it could be a blessing in disguise long term, pushing the opening of our contention window back to 2021 or 2022, but ultimately making it more sustainable with homegrown talent getting a chance to mature together into major roles."

GETTING A CHANCE TO MATURE TOGETHER. 

I am in no rush to expedite, nor to preclude the process, by rushing headlong into the free agent scrum, a la Donnie Douche Bag deconstructing our roster, and jettisoning all of our assets and youth in a pyrrhic pursuit of LeBron and Melo. 

There is something to be said for a stable, patient, purposeful path forward, step by step, inch by inch.  Obviously, Brad Stevens and  Danny Ainge deployed more than just youth and draft picks, but they did not unduly rush things, stockpiled assets, and at key junctures in the process, added veteran free agents and made trades that rebounded in their favor, as their young players matured and blossomed together in Coach Stevens' purposeful, forward-thinking modern system. 

As an acolyte of Pat Riley, David Fizdale projects a nice combination of charm and toughness, and while supportive of his youth, and something of a charmer therein, one never loses sight of the fact that he DEMANDS ACCOUNTABILITY and as he is wont to assert, I AIN'T GIVING NOBODY NOTHING--THEY HAVE TO EARN IT. 

As such, defense, Defense, DEFENSE. 

Are defenders made or are defenders born?

Debate amongst yourself. 

Still, one thing which seems manifestly demonstrable to me, is that on a very fundamental level, DEFENSE REPRESENTS A SHARED COMMITMENT. 

So the fact that in Robinson, Ntilikina and Porzingis (let alone, until further notice, Thomas, Lee and Noah) we have a cadre of long, tall, big wingspan YOUNG athletes with a genuine defensive pedigree and enormous upside, bodes well moving forward for players such as Kanter, Hardaway, Knox, Hezonja and Burke, who are genuinely gifted offensively, but have a considerable amount to prove on the defensive end of the ball, both individually and as a coherent collective.  If sharing is caring on offense--ball movement and good screens, cutters and movement and motion, IT IS EVEN MORE CRITICAL ON DEFENSE.  For years the Knicks have been seemingly committed to complicated, infuriating help schemes, where there was less emphasis placed on man a mano responsibilities.  Of course help, having your brother's back, is critical to any successful, coherent defensive scheme, but it starts with personal responsibility, and physical commitment to getting over screens and making even the most gifted offensive juggernauts work, and WORK HARD for everything they get, and to pay a physical price in terms of no layups, no EZ Pass lines through the paint, and the cumulative effect of how fatigue factors in come the fourth quarter. 

If our defense is keying our offense, as was the case under Holzman, Riley and Van Gundy, and if our young points can reflect the toughness and efficiency and leadership shown by the likes of Frazier and Ward, be our 2018-2019 Knicks a playoff or lottery team, and if the Knicks fans can chant DE-FENCE and have it translate on the court to EFFORT and TENACITY, I will consider myself well-served as a fan. 

As for all of these schemes regarding salary cap space, I respect where some of you are coming from, but speaking only for myself, I do not give a tinker's damn. 

If we are able to reel in good young #1 and #2 picks from the draft, and offer one max contract in 2019-2020, I will consider myself well-served. 

However, let me make it perfectly clear, that I AM NOT MARRIED TO THE INSTANT GRATIFCATION OF A FREE AGENT. 

The right player, the right skill set, the right age, the right position, the right commitment?  All for it.  Al Horford?  A veteran game changer for the Celtics. 

But, if as Facil suggests, we are destined to move forward with what we have, and perhaps forced to suck it up and wait for Lee and Noah and Thomas's contracts to expire, then SO FUCKING BE IT. 

PS: And as a footnote, while Mills and Perry have not tipped their hands regarding possible trades, buyouts, stretch provisions, etcetera, it is my sincere hope that...and I mean this...we retain all of our vets unless a deal comes along that is so advantageous it simply knocks our socks off.  Our youth needs the benefit of veteran mentoring; Thomas for Knox, Hezonja and Vonleh; Lee for Hardaway and Dotson and Ntilikina and Mudiay and Trier; and in particular, NOAH for Kanter and Porzingis and Robinson and Kornet.  While Noah has struggled with health issues, his original contract was ill-conceived, and the chemistry between him Coaches Hornacek and Rambis was unfortunate on both sides, it is worth remembering what a dominating defensive presence, and rebounder, gifted passer and opportunistic pick and roll/screen man he was in his salad days.  Looking at a defensively challenged talent such as Kanter and the intoxicating raw clay that is Mitchell Robinson, it makes a world of sense to me, to afford them the benefit of Noah's heady, teamwork/oriented experience as a top-tier defender.  People need to stop obsessing over his contract.  Fuck it.  That train has long left the station. And given, $18.5-19.3 million is a considerable sum to pay for a back-up center/player-coach, but again, what's done is done, and I fail to see the desperate race to divest ourselves of his contract.  We can always stretch him and open up a roster spot in 2019-2020, or perhaps, having re-established his value as a role player to a contender, entertain a trade with in the final year of his expiring year of his contract.  There is not need to demonize Noah for being a dubious signing, nor to bite our fucking nose to spite our face.  Anyway, I am in a distinct minority here, but I would love to see Mitchell Robinson have the benefit of Noah leaning on his ass in practice for one full season, and mentoring him in the finer MENTAL ASPECTS of being a defensive presence above and beyond his palpable athletic gifts, much as Kevin Knox can only benefit from career role-player/defensive stalwart Lance Thomas showing the uber-talented big wing how to make an enduring impact as something more than an offensive weapon, but as a fully rounded, multi-dimensional leader. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 06:47:22 PM
"We can always stretch him......"

Ahhhhm fuck - you lost me there, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 07:19:27 PM
From little snips of video, it looks like Noah is adjusting his approach by developing something like a basketball player’s jump shot.

I’m getting used to the idea that at this point, we cut Baker, add Kadeem Allen to the D-League and go to war.

Kanter Kornet Noah KP
Vonleh Thomas Mitchell
Knox Hezonja
Hardaway Lee Dotson
Ntilikina Burke Mudiay

Hicks Trier, one at at time till KP is healthy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 05, 2018, 07:43:05 PM
Noah has one of the stranger jump shots I've ever seen.  Too much palm of his hand; weird reverse rotation. 

I admire Ron Baker, and his work ethic. 

But we are loaded with ball-handler/facilitators (Ntilikina, Mudiay, Burke)

And we are loaded with big and medium sized wings (Hardaway, Lee, Dotson, Trier, Knox, Hezonja]. 

If Noah would ACCEPT a role with the Knicks, for spot minutes in the rotation, based on the expectation that he might often be supplanted by Robinson as the season wore on (the accumulation of fouls factoring in significantly here), and with the expectation that Mitchell could join both Vonleh and Kornet, Hezonja and Thomas in rotations at the four depending on whether we are going big or small, that to me would be a positive. 

Theoretically, Kanter could be part of that scrum at the 4 with Robinson, though he would have to dramatically step up his mid-long range shooting to merit such a role.  Seems counter-productive to me.  Would rather see Kanter AND Noah man the 5, and allow Kornet and Robinson to vector between the 5 spot and the stretch 4 (Robinson HAS jump shooting range). 

I agree with Facil that I should rather see Knox concentrate on the 3-spot until his body matures, adds some muscle mass and lower body strength, and learns the ins and outs of being bodied and physically challenged, as he was in that game against the Lakers.  With time, he will be fine, but in the short term, why feed him to the beasts; plenty of time to man up when he fills out physically.  In the short term, his evolution would seem more along the lines of a wing such as Kevin Durant (we should be so lucky), as opposed to a big like Kevin Garnett or Anthony Davis (who significantly, shares a trainer with Mitchell Robinson, and contributed to his evolution as a workout partner). 

Be curious how Hezonja fits at the 4-spot, and I'll need to be convinced on that front, but he is an older player, who has grown into his adult body, so let him and Lance Thomas absorb the wangs and bangs at the 4, and supplement Knox with Lee, Hardaway and Dotson at the 3. 

Anyway, what, two months till autumn beckons, the dog days of summer give way to the bittersweet colors of autumn, and we can stop speculating as to what we have, and where we are moving going forward. 

My God, an actual-factual rebuild. 

PS: I do hope that Fizdale and Perry are open to the notion of tapping in to the battle tested experience of such Knicks icons as Allan Houston, Charlie Ward, Latrell Sprewell, Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe, Dick Barnett, Bill Bradley, Willis Reed and Larry Johnson.  Not just for nostalgia's sake, but for the sake of identifying those aspects of the game and team play which were best exemplified by our championship teams and those of our perennial contenders.  I regret that Anthony Mason has left the arena, as I should very much have liked for him to have baptized Vonleh, Knox and Hezonja. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: NormaMigrooniug on August 05, 2018, 09:11:49 PM
 
   bosch    (https://remontbosch.com)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 10:55:34 PM
Re:  Baker

You have to give him the opportunity to show what he has now that he is healthy

I cant say he will be worse than all those guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 05, 2018, 11:10:28 PM
I expect the Baker situation to clear up at least a couple of weeks before the regular season starts.

Hezonja is Historically bad at defending the post. Vonleh, Thomas, Mitchell, Kornet, and Knox before Hezonja at power forward. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 05, 2018, 11:34:17 PM
Best lineup right now has Kanter at the 4 defensively.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2018, 12:12:34 AM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.

FT%?  Hardaway?
heh - lol

Efficiency?  Do you like or hate PER?

Read again.

FT Rate.
FG%
PER is mostly an offensive rating, so overvalues scorers who don't defend and undervalues defenders who don't score.  And of course doesn't capture anything outside of the box score (screens, deflections, nice cuts, ball movement that doesn't generate an assist, double teams, good def. rotations, etc)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 02:48:15 AM
Best No lineup right now has Kanter at the 4 defensively.

FIFY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2018, 08:45:32 AM
Best No lineup right now has Kanter at the 4 defensively.

FIFY.

Thank you
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 06, 2018, 11:26:09 AM
Quote
Alex Kennedy: Trevor Booker is nearing a deal with the Shanxi Brave Dragons of the Chinese Basketball Association, according to league sources.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 06, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
latest NBA o/u win totals

Jeff Sherman, manager of the Westgate Las Vegas SuperBook, posted season win totals on Twitter on Sunday, and the two-time defending champion Golden State Warriors unsurprisingly lead with 62.5 projected wins. The Boston Celtics have the second-highest win total at 57.5, followed by the Houston Rockets, Philadelphia 76ers and Toronto Raptors at 54.5 wins each.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/08/05/nba-win-total-projections-westgate-superbook-warriors-rockets-lakers/911468002 (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/08/05/nba-win-total-projections-westgate-superbook-warriors-rockets-lakers/911468002)


Atl 23.5
Bos 57.5
Brk 32.5
Cha 35.5
Chi 27.5
Cle 30.5
Dal 34.5
Den 47.5
Det 37.5
GS 62.5
Hou 54.5
Ind 47.5
LAC 35.5
LAL 48.5
Mem 34.5
Mia 41.5
Mil 46.5
Min 44.5
NO 45.5
NY 29.5
OKC 50.5
Orl 31.5
Phi 54.5
Phx 28.5
Prt 41.5
Sac 25.5
SA 43.5
Tor 54.5
Uth 48.5
Wsh 44.5
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 02:38:03 PM
With KZ out and then likely returning slowly from Jan 1st on, Tim Jr. should be our primary scorer.  So the number of double digit games or 20 point outings is less important than his FG%, shot selection, efficiency, FT rate, etc.

FT%?  Hardaway?
heh - lol

Efficiency?  Do you like or hate PER?

Read again.

FT Rate.
FG%
PER is mostly an offensive rating, so overvalues scorers who don't defend and undervalues defenders who don't score.  And of course doesn't capture anything outside of the box score (screens, deflections, nice cuts, ball movement that doesn't generate an assist, double teams, good def. rotations, etc)

You said efficiency

So you want to make that an "in your eyes" assessment, where you can make shit up about Hardaway, his help d, his "cuts", etc. (and gloss over what Clyde and others say about him)

You act like Hardaway is that dick at the Y we all hate - the guy who just asks for the ball, never gives back and stands around if he doesnt get it.

And by scoffing at stats you can say pretty much whatever you want.

Well, have at it for another year, pal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on August 06, 2018, 03:33:57 PM
latest NBA o/u win totals

Atl 23.5
Bos 57.5
Brk 32.5
Cha 35.5
Chi 27.5
Cle 30.5
Dal 34.5
Den 47.5
Det 37.5
GS 62.5
Hou 54.5
Ind 47.5
LAC 35.5
LAL 48.5
Mem 34.5
Mia 41.5
Mil 46.5
Min 44.5
NO 45.5
NY 29.5
OKC 50.5
Orl 31.5
Phi 54.5
Phx 28.5
Prt 41.5
Sac 25.5
SA 43.5
Tor 54.5
Uth 48.5
Wsh 44.5

Damn, we’re only fifth!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 03:52:34 PM
Quote
Alex Kennedy: Trevor Booker is nearing a deal with the Shanxi Brave Dragons of the Chinese Basketball Association, according to league sources.

Better be for a lot of cash...

I like Booker over Mario - and we did have interest.

Tells me MGT are not as desperate at the 4 as fans would say.

Plans for Noah/Kanter?  Could be.

Expectations of Porzingis back by New Year?  Yes, that too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 06, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 05:08:47 PM
I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.

Trevor is 6'8" and 30 years old.  We already have the 6'8" Hezonja. 

Hell, we could have kept Beasley. 

Vonleh will be 23 later this month. 

6'10" 240 pounds. 

Consistent with exploring notions of youth with possible upsides. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fueE0QWQgxc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fueE0QWQgxc)

This was an interesting cameo, in a losing effort for the Bulls from last March.

Vonleh with four three pointers.  Pretty smooth stroke. 

Proving?  Very little.  He was 18-for-60 overall with the Bulls. 

But a big, springy, powerful body.  Free throw shooting has been up and down over a paltry 15.5 minutes a game in four seasons. 

However, his rebounding has shown a steady uptick, almost 7 a game for the Bulls in 21 games over 19 minutes. 

We shall see.  Seems like a reasonable roll of the dice, allowing Fizz to toss in a big body against beefier power forwards, and concentrate on Knox at the 3, which would allow Hezonja time at the 3 and even at the 4 when matchups permit...of course, he will have to evolve his defense considerably to be an option at the 4. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 05:12:52 PM
Mario is a Sg-sf. He isn’t all that important.

Vonleh is a legit PF/ small ball C. If Fiz can get real growth out of Vonleh we have a much more competitive team than expected. Booker would have been good, but I think Vonleh moves the needle more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 05:35:35 PM
I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.

Trevor is 6'8" and 30 years old.  We already have the 6'8" Hezonja. 



Havent seen much of Booker, have you?

My guess is he sought a 2-year deal

OK with me if this is why we passed - but he'd have made us better this year, no doubt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 06:20:10 PM
Booker is probably looking to be an available UFA next year when the cap jumps. If so, the money is better in China and he still has the chance to join a team in spring, possibly one on track for a playoff spot where injuries have opened up minutes for a versatile forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 06:35:22 PM
Mario is a Sg-sf. He isn’t all that important.

Vonleh is a legit PF/ small ball C. If Fiz can get real growth out of Vonleh we have a much more competitive team than expected. Booker would have been good, but I think Vonleh moves the needle more.

Booker might indeed have been a more impactful player. 

However these are not the Knicks of Kidd, Camby, KT and Wallace.  We had a winning season and made it to the playoffs, where the wheels came off as the most significant person on the floor, Jason Kidd, finally exhausted his mojo. 

The idea, again, is not to milk another 5-7 short term wins out of our team, but to create a winning SUSTAINABLE culture, albeit with the knowledge that fielding such a tadpole team is going to lead to a goodly number of beatdowns in the short term, least ways until (and likely, thereafter) KP returns. 

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but what exactly are we debating here: BOOKER IS THIRTY YEARS OLD.  What's the point?  Booker brings nothing to this team that we do not already have, especially with a capable role player in Lance Thomas, who is also 30, also 6'8", albeit with a bigger body, and--IRONICALLY--a genuine threat from three-point range, significantly better than from 2-point range.  Booker brings nothing in that regard. 

2015-2016: .404%

2016-2017: .447%

2017-2018: .403%

I will be very curious to see how Mario responds to Fizdale's system.  Perry was obviously very invested in the kid. 

He is a very skilled player.  However, he is certainly not a complete player on the defensive end, and I too wonder how he would match up with real NBA power-forwards.  I'm not seeing it. 

Fizz is milking that position-less cow. 

We shall see. 
Title: Biz's Fave
Post by: chipstern on August 06, 2018, 06:44:18 PM
One of Biz's favorite players, PF-C Greg Monroe, signed on with the Raptors for the Vet's Minimum.

How the mighty have fallen.  Might actually be a good landing spot for Monroe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 07:04:10 PM
Thomas isnt Booker

This guy is a bull.  More like a less talented Kanter with a mean streak.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 06, 2018, 07:15:37 PM
I think Vonleh and Mitchell will provide all the Bookerness we need. I agree that Lance has a much different style and role.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 06, 2018, 11:03:33 PM
Robinson's playing G League
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 12:08:20 AM
Agree with Chip.
I was interested in Trev Book when he was with UTA.  He is a bull.
Good role player.  A Quincy Acy type.

I keep going back to the KZ injury.
If KZ was healthy Booker and his vet beef might help the bench, bring toughness we lost with KOQ's departure, make hustle plays.

As it is, wins are not important next year.
Lance can fill in at PF.  Kornet too.  Knox some.  Hezonja can be tried,
There are options and KZ will return.

Perry Fizz have decided to go all in on dumpster diving trying to see if any young players who have been cast off can actually play this game.  Trey Burke looks like a legit backup PG.  Though we'll see if he can keep up his torrid pace on horrid mid-rangers.

I'm concerned we have too many reclamation projects (Burke, Mud, Zonja, Vonleh) combined with the uncertainty of Noah and the inconsistency of draftees (Frank & Knoxville & Robinson).
It's good to have some steady performers.

Courtly for one.  Kanter too, I guess.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 12:20:42 AM
As for Tim Jr., I hope he looks at this as more a team and doesn't think this is his chance to be The Man, the #1 Option and go to it.  Because I don't think he can handle that at all.
He probably should shoot more, but needs to work within the system and not be greedy.


As for that earlier stuff.
I was pointing out that I didn't say FT % for Tim.  I said FT rate and FG %.  That's largely what I was thinking of when I mentioned efficiency.

I wasn't thinking of PER.
Also: +/-.  Shot selection. Turnovers and steals.
Can add assists and rebounds, which do factor into PER.

My discourse on PER was in general terms.  I'm not judging Tim on defensive rotations or cutting (though that would be nice).
I do judge him on defending his man, dealing with screens, getting burned backdoor when inattentive.

I won't be too hard on Tim Jr because he will be in the wrong role for the first half of the season, on a very hastily patched together team which will likely have minimal chemistry and a new system to learn. 

It would also be nice to see how young vet Hardaway plays if he had a genuine starting quality PG next to him.  I know he likes Burke and they know each other, but Burke is a scorer and weak defender.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 02:55:16 AM
I think Tim will stick around as an improving then reliable vet. His contract makes him hella hard to move and though his production and productiveness will improve, his next deal won’t be as large as his current one.

It’s going to be easier to get Mitchell minutes at the 4 than the 5 this year and probably next year as well because he’s a very skinny kid. He moves well enough to cover power forwards and still provide weakside defebsive help.

Glad Frank is getting some National team ball in prior to the season
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 05:15:12 AM
I think Tim is overpaid, but don't think he'd be too hard to move.  There are about 10 good SG's and then a drop off to many guys who are okay and/or have significant question marks (KCP, A Very, Lou Williams, LaVine, Barton, Smart, Reke, Waiters, Fournier).  Tim slips right among them.

LaVine 4/ $19.5M per
Fournier 3/ $17M per
Smart  4/ $52M ($13M ave)
Barton 4/ $54M ($13.5M ave)
Waiters 3/ $40M ($13M ave)
Reke, KCP & Bradley all signed 1 year $12M contracts hoping to cash in next year.

The newer contracts tend to be a little lower as the market has tightened.  Contracts from before, like Tim's and Fournier's, are a little pricier.  So probably Tim should be priced around $14M instead of his $18M ave.  can't say I like anyone on that list more than Tim, except maybe KCP.  And A Very if he is healthy and can get back to form.  But I like defenders with some offensive chops more than offenders with limited D.

One thing is that not that many teams need an SG, unlike previous years.  So that makes Tim  a bit harder to move.  Lot of SG young blood has arrived (Mitchell, Booker, Jaylen, Harris).  BUT NYK doesn't have a big need to move Tim anyway.  Likely to wait another year and see how/if he develops.

Here's a Hoopshype article ranking the Top 30 SG's
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/06/nba-projections-top-30-shooting-guards-klay-thompson-james-harden/
They don't mention Courtly or Hardaway.  But one of them is our starting SG.
Title: Re: Biz's Fave
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 07, 2018, 05:21:34 AM
One of Biz's favorite players, PF-C Greg Monroe, signed on with the Raptors for the Vet's Minimum.

How the mighty have fallen.  Might actually be a good landing spot for Monroe.

We've been through this before. I was the one who was adamant we don't sign Monroe. Nagel was the one loved the idea of signing him.

Last I really advocated for Monroe was when he came out of college.

Incidentally, while he was the most talented big left on the market, I think it was curious that Toronto signed him. I thought Bebe was a better fit, although Monroe is definitely cheap insurance should JV get hurt.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 07, 2018, 05:23:28 AM
I think Vonleh and Mitchell will provide all the Bookerness we need. I agree that Lance has a much different style and role.

I wanted Booker as much for the off-court stuff as on-court production. Too many kids, even in a rebuilding year, isn't ideal. Would have preferred one more grown up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Really for vet presence and toughness, I would have liked to have kept KOQ, who signed with IND for 1/$4.5M (Ron Baker money!).

If we move Courtly (if there is a market for him), we'd be down to role player Lance as a vet; disgruntled Noah as another.
Kanter and Tim as 26 year old young vets.
Maybe we need Courtly's voice.  Seems he was more vocal last year.

We have an awful lot of yute and reclamation projects who could use structure and vet guidance.  Sometimes just understanding the right approach -- mental/physical preparation -- can help a young player improve.  Seems we're leaving a lot of this on Fizz and his staff, without much lockerroom support.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2018, 12:20:33 PM
I think Tim is overpaid, but don't think he'd be too hard to move.  There are about 10 good SG's and then a drop off to many guys who are okay and/or have significant question marks (KCP, A Very, Lou Williams, LaVine, Barton, Smart, Reke, Waiters, Fournier).  Tim slips right among them.

LaVine 4/ $19.5M per
Fournier 3/ $17M per
Smart  4/ $52M ($13M ave)
Barton 4/ $54M ($13.5M ave)
Waiters 3/ $40M ($13M ave)
Reke, KCP & Bradley all signed 1 year $12M contracts hoping to cash in next year.

The newer contracts tend to be a little lower as the market has tightened.  Contracts from before, like Tim's and Fournier's, are a little pricier.  So probably Tim should be priced around $14M instead of his $18M ave.  can't say I like anyone on that list more than Tim, except maybe KCP.  And A Very if he is healthy and can get back to form.  But I like defenders with some offensive chops more than offenders with limited D.

One thing is that not that many teams need an SG, unlike previous years.  So that makes Tim  a bit harder to move.  Lot of SG young blood has arrived (Mitchell, Booker, Jaylen, Harris).  BUT NYK doesn't have a big need to move Tim anyway.  Likely to wait another year and see how/if he develops.

Here's a Hoopshype article ranking the Top 30 SG's
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/06/nba-projections-top-30-shooting-guards-klay-thompson-james-harden/
They don't mention Courtly or Hardaway.  But one of them is our starting PG.

No Knicks PG in their top 30 either

Nets have TWO - and Ball is #16, ahead of Smith and a few other good ones.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 07, 2018, 12:45:08 PM
Really for vet presence and toughness, I would have liked to have kept KOQ, who signed with IND for 1/$4.5M (Ron Baker money!).

If we move Courtly (if there is a market for him), we'd be down to role player Lance as a vet; disgruntled Noah as another.
Kanter and Tim as 26 year old young vets.
Maybe we need Courtly's voice.  Seems he was more vocal last year.

We have an awful lot of yute and reclamation projects who could use structure and vet guidance.  Sometimes just understanding the right approach -- mental/physical preparation -- can help a young player improve.  Seems we're leaving a lot of this on Fizz and his staff, without much lockerroom support.

OQuinn wasnt staying.  Wanted to play for a better team.

Not sure Noah comes in disgruntled this year

I think a good staff provides enough guidance.  And sometimes vets can stink up a joint as well.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 07, 2018, 01:49:07 PM
I guess the losing got to KOQ.
Good pickup for INDy

And obviously I meant one of Tim/Courtly was our SG, but mistakenly typed PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
The losing combined with the log jam. I feel like Vonleh can become a suitable replacement even if he doesn’t block many shots.

The question now is can Fizdale really instill what he preaches?

I want to see these guys come into preseason looking jacked and all working their asses off on both ends.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 07, 2018, 10:36:45 PM
The losing combined with the log jam. I feel like Vonleh can become a suitable replacement even if he doesn’t block many shots.

The question now is can Fizdale really instill what he preaches?

I want to see these guys come into preseason looking jacked and all working their asses off on both ends.

Nothing is given.

But right now we have...

Three true veterans: Noah [33], Lee [32], Thomas [30]

Two young veterans Kanter [26], Hardaway [26]

Three young back court players on the cusp: Burke [25], Baker [25]

A sophomore vying for rotation minutes and a two way player looking to step up: Dotson [24], Hicks [24]

Two upstart Euros and an undrafted big: Porzingis [23], Hezonja [23], Kornet [23]

Two former high lottery picks looking to make a better second impression: Vonleh [22], Mudiay [22]

A two-way player who fell out of the draft: Trier [22]

Three tantalizing puppies looking to make a significant impact: Robinson [20], Nitilikina [20], Knox [19]

FIFTEEN PLAYERS between 19-26. 

Porzingis healing. 

Hicks and Trier looking at G-League.

Baker fighting for his Knicks life.

Noah and Lee suspended in limbo. 

PLENTY OF COMPETITION AT EVERY POSITION.

There should be a camp full of fiercely motivated pups looking to make a good impression on Coach Fizdale. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 07, 2018, 11:18:29 PM
I sure hope so. Signs are good so far.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 01:19:28 AM
29.5 Wins
Here we come
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 02:51:28 AM
Zhaire Smith out with a Jones Fracture.

So I click around to see what a Jones fracture exactly is, and it sounds exactly like the pain I've ben having the past 4 weeks in the middle outside part of my left foot.  I was hoping it was just a tissue bruise as if someone had stepped on my foot.  but I didn't remember anything happening like that.  Actually I can play fine, but quasi-limp around when walking.  Guess I need an Xray.  Might as well get my Big Toe zapped as well, since it has had some pain for the past 2 years and just seems to never heal. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 03:03:56 AM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS
POR  @ UTA
MIL   @ NYK

We're obviously the least compelling team out there and it looks like they had trouble scrounging up an interesting matchup for us.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 04:07:56 AM
Bo, I hope you get your wheels patched and take your spinning and winning to another gear.

JoNo has made of himself part of the spectacle of Venice Beach. Anyone surprised?

He might be in great shape with some sort of jumper...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2018, 08:44:19 AM
Bo, I hope you get your wheels patched and take your spinning and winning to another gear.

JoNo has made of himself part of the spectacle of Venice Beach. Anyone surprised?

He might be in great shape with some sort of jumper...

I would really like for J-Noah to be part of this re-tooling.  He could be a profound influence on Kanter, Kornet and especially Robinson. 

And for Coach Fizdale, attempting to finally, FINALLY, inculcate an authentic post-Holzman/Riley defensive culture, I mean, come on. 

The contract is what the contract is...time to let go and see if we cannot finally derive some value from Noah's presence, and reclaim his value as an asset, for us, for him, moving forward.  You just KNOW he is motivated.  Would be a damn shame to simply jettison him and see him make a solid contribution to another team, when he could be playing a role in improving our's. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 12:53:18 PM
Zhaire Smith out with a Jones Fracture.

So I click around to see what a Jones fracture exactly is, and it sounds exactly like the pain I've ben having the past 4 weeks in the middle outside part of my left foot.  I was hoping it was just a tissue bruise as if someone had stepped on my foot.  but I didn't remember anything happening like that.  Actually I can play fine, but quasi-limp around when walking.  Guess I need an Xray.  Might as well get my Big Toe zapped as well, since it has had some pain for the past 2 years and just seems to never heal.

Fifth mtetatarsal fractures:

http://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/treatments/Pages/Fifth-Metatarsal-Fracture-Surgery.aspx (http://www.aofas.org/footcaremd/treatments/Pages/Fifth-Metatarsal-Fracture-Surgery.aspx)

Up to a  15-20% chance of a refracture - and healing can depend on the shape of one's foot.  Wow, that's a load of uncertainty for Mr Smith.

The Jones itself:

Zone 2 fractures are typically known as Jones fractures. They occur at the intersection between the base and the shaft of the fifth metatarsal (figure 1). These fractures are known to have a higher chance of not healing (nonunion). They are also at risk of refracture even after healing. Surgical treatment is commonly performed for these fractures.

If I have a zone 2 fracture of the base of the fifth metatarsal, will I jeopardize my chance of bone healing if I try nonoperative treatment first?
A:  Most of these breaks will go on to heal after 12 weeks with appropriate treatment. The nonunion rate of these fractures may still be as high as 15 to 20 percent. A fracture that fails to heal and is painful may require surgical repair. The surgery can be more difficult at that point and can require a bone graft.


Foot surgery in general:

Metatarsals: There are five long bones in the foot which serve as bony struts between the toes and the midfoot. Some metatarsal fractures can be treated without surgery, but displaced fractures may benefit from surgery. Sometimes two or more metatarsals can be fractured as a result of a significant injury. The repair involves an incision over the fractured metatarsal. Additional incisions may be necessary for multiple fractures. The fractures are fixed with pins, screws or a plate, or combination.

Potential complications of foot fracture surgery include wound breakdown, failure of the fracture to heal (nonunion), fracture healing in a bad position (malunion), loss of fracture alignment prior to healing, implant failure, persistent pain, loss of motion and arthritis.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 12:56:50 PM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS
POR  @ UTA
MIL   @ NYK

We're obviously the least compelling team out there and it looks like they had trouble scrounging up an interesting matchup for us.


YES!!!!!!!

Love my Christmas hoops.  Should be at least 4 excellent games  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
Apparently one problem with a Jones Fracture is it's located in a zone between two blood watersheds, so it's rather a low blood flow area, which limits healing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 02:35:43 PM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS
POR  @ UTA
MIL   @ NYK

We're obviously the least compelling team out there and it looks like they had trouble scrounging up an interesting matchup for us.

San Antonio at Toronto would have been better than either of the last two games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 08, 2018, 02:58:32 PM
Apparently one problem with a Jones Fracture is it's located in a zone between two blood watersheds, so it's rather a low blood flow area, which limits healing.

Feel better homes. 

Meanwhile, the Sixers' First Rounder Curse continues. 

Odd.  Quite odd. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 04:52:48 PM
Noel and Okafor can still play - not sure about a jinx.

I think when drafting guys younger and younger you always run the risk......

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 05:17:11 PM
I think Saric was the last Philly rook to come right in and play, and even he took another season in Europe. The Sixers seem to have a pretty good behind the scenes Monstar training program. It could help more than it hurts Smith down the line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 08, 2018, 05:49:55 PM
Christmas Day Games
LaLa @ GSW
OKC  @ HOU
'6ers @ BOS

San Antonio at Toronto would have been better than either of the last two games.

Good call.

I hadn't thought of it, but each of the first three premier games have a player meeting an old team or old nemesis.
LeBJ is an old GSW foe on a new team
Melo flipped from OKC to HOU
And BOS/PHI has the questionable Fultz/Tatum (+a #1) swap.

So Kawhi meeting his old team would fit with the theme.
And would be more dramatic than all but LeBron v. GSW.

I wonder why they chose to have the favored team play at Home.
A reward for being a top team?

I imagine the League hopes KZ returns on or before Xmas.
The past few years the Knix, even with weak teams, has been a solid first half of the season team, only to flame out spectacularly later.  Hard to see that happening again, especially without KZ, but it's surprised me a few years running.  Lotta new players and totally new coaching staff.  NBA has to hope Knix aren't a disaster heading into the New Year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 08, 2018, 09:35:44 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 08, 2018, 09:53:40 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.

Have to explain that further.
Title: Re: Noah
Post by: carlos123 on August 08, 2018, 09:56:47 PM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.

For the record, I also want to see him suit up, see what he's got. If nothing, buy him out next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 08, 2018, 10:32:04 PM
I’m down to let him come to camp and make his case where it matters.

The dropping Trou episode may have been a play by JoNo to get his situation resolved in time to latch on with another team.

13 mil relief next year and a 7 mil hit in two years when the cap is pegged to rise that much before gaming revenue is factored in. If it feels like he’d make a wave, set him free.

If he were playing right it would be nice to have him, but the roster doesn’t need him by any means.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 09, 2018, 06:54:32 AM
ESPN reporting Knicks want to stretch Noah next month.

That's pretty dumb. Some, like Chip and Kiid, really want to see him suit up. I just don't him on the books entering the next decade. Buying him out makes much more sense than stretching him. And if you stretch him, stretch him next summer.

Have to explain that further.

Stretching him now, with two years left on his contract, means we will be paying him 20% of his remaining total salary owed over each of the next five years, which will hurt our ability to attract free agents in 2020 and 2021. Not smart. I don't want him on the books past the 2019-2020 season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 11:01:20 AM
They are saying September 1 is a key date - as far as the money works

One article said we "save 12.9 mil on the cap" but doesnt specify for when.  Would that be usable immediately in a deal where we take on money? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 12:18:35 PM
Looks like Ryan Anderson may be on his way to the HEAT.

James Johnson or Tyler Johnson rumored to be the target as HOU still cant get Bazemore
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 12:35:42 PM
I don't think Heat have changed one player from last season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

you can always  stretch him if you need to BUT lesser players have been moved if a pick is included.  some distant heavily protected pick for an expiring deal.

that could save much more towards 2019.

that assumes anyone wants NY's money.

we won't know that for quite a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 02:04:38 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

well, Knix can just hold on to his contract for 2 years and not play him.  He'll be 34 by then and his NBA career likely over after not playing for almost 3 years. 

Likely he would take a buyout at a slightly reduced rate, because he can get a $2M vet min (or whatever it is for a guy with his years), and he'd be able to pick which team to join.  he could be a backup on a contender.

So Knix have a little leverage and Noah has some incentive to drop at least $2M per year to divorce.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 09, 2018, 02:13:00 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

well, Knix can just hold on to his contract for 2 years and not play him.  He'll be 34 by then and his NBA career likely over after not playing for almost 3 years. 

Likely he would take a buyout at a slightly reduced rate, because he can get a $2M vet min (or whatever it is for a guy with his years), and he'd be able to pick which team to join.  he could be a backup on a contender.

So Knix have a little leverage and Noah has some incentive to drop at least $2M per year to divorce.

not sure any team is going to give him 2 million after sitting for 2 years.  i think NY would try the buyout route but if I am  Noah i say no thanks.  just give me my money.  once they stretch him he can sign anywhere that will have him.  he can' t be happy with NY management .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 02:34:00 PM
Knix don't have to stretch him.
That's the leverage.
They can derail another year of his dwindling career.
And another 2 years if they want to.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:02:58 PM
Buyouts effect team bottom lines, but not salary cap implications. Our concerns are not with the real dollars, but with the cap. Mills and Perry have had a lot of time to interact with Noah and to discuss his predicament with Fizz. The rumor seems to be that the collective decision is that regardless of money, having Noah around would be detrimental to the development of the team. Knicks don’t want him & nobody will take him at what he’s paid.

With buyouts making no difference, Knicks choices are if and when to stretch

No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021

If the Knicks want to keep Noah around to preserve flexibly to the very last second while at the same time keeping JoNo away from the squad, that causes trouble with the players, the union, and the agents, all of whom you need to favor you if you want to be a player destination.

The clean approach is to part ways as soon as you can lock this year’s salary into the books. We intend to be an over-cap under-tax team anyway in years where both lines are projected to jump up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 03:20:00 PM
knicks should not stretch noah in september and still have 6 million of him on their books for 3 years.  Noah isn't going to give any money back to NY.  he isn't a stupid man.

well, Knix can just hold on to his contract for 2 years and not play him.  He'll be 34 by then and his NBA career likely over after not playing for almost 3 years. 



But wise NBA types are not vindictive fucks, so no - we wont hurt ourselves just to hurt him
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 03:22:24 PM
Buyouts effect team bottom lines, but not salary cap implications. Our concerns are not with the real dollars, but with the cap. Mills and Perry have had a lot of time to interact with Noah and to discuss his predicament with Fizz. The rumor seems to be that the collective decision is that regardless of money, having Noah around would be detrimental to the development of the team. Knicks don’t want him & nobody will take him at what he’s paid.

With buyouts making no difference, Knicks choices are if and when to stretch

No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021



Thanks

Yeah, so I like plan C
Title: Re: Knicks and Jeff’s
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2018, 03:30:13 PM
Whatever they do, let’s never get another coach named Jeff. They all seem to leave a toxic legacy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:31:03 PM
Yeah. It’s a not good but least bad sort of decision. If this is the path, we should do it in a timeframe that gives Noah the best chance to lock on with another team. It’s a favor to him and his agent that will cost us nothing and build good will.
Title: Re: Knicks and Jeff’s
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 03:32:45 PM
Whatever they do, let’s never get another coach named Jeff. They all seem to leave a toxic legacy.

Who since VanGundy has been as good or as fun as VanGundy?
Title: Re: Knicks and Jeff’s
Post by: carlos123 on August 09, 2018, 04:52:23 PM
Whatever they do, let’s never get another coach named Jeff. They all seem to leave a toxic legacy.

Who since VanGundy has been as good or as fun as VanGundy?

Hornacek
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 06:52:23 PM
Well they’ve kept Baker around so far. He’s kind of like a Hornacek bobble head.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 09, 2018, 07:17:51 PM
Knicks can now afford Deng next year.....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 09, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021

Anything but the first option is myopic
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 09, 2018, 09:07:29 PM
That means another year in addition to this one upcoming of building through internal improvements, the draft, and tinkering around the edges of free agency.

I don’t think it’s the worst plan, but it doesn’t seem to be where the organization is heading.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 09, 2018, 10:26:59 PM
No stretch = $18.5 M in 2018, $19 M in 2019

Stretch before 9/1 = $7.5 M in 2018, $7.5 M in 2019, $7.5 M in 2020, $7.5 M in 2021, $7.5 M in 2022

Stretch between 9/1 and next season = $18.5 M in 2018, $6.4 M in 2019, $6.4 M in 2020, $6.4 M in 2021

Anything but the first option is myopic

Well, if that's how it works, pretty obvious the 2nd one isn't an option.
If stretching you let this year's salary take effect and then stretch just the final year after Sept 1. 

A dead $6.4M for 3 years isn't great, but it's less than a mid-level contract and not much more than we paid Baker last year and this.
But lots of teams will have cap space next year, so it's not the best off-season to have money freed.
One day Knix might get ahead of the curve instead of following the pack.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 09, 2018, 11:23:28 PM
A true rebuild season with some interesting pieces along with the anchor weights.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 11:58:11 AM
Seemingly we have THREE pieces in place (this if the Knox buildup holds - and assuming Kanter is history)

Need to get to TEN.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 01:04:29 PM
KP, Robinson, Knox, and Frank make 4 foundational pieces. There are a number of prospects on the roster who could rise to compliment that group.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 10, 2018, 01:26:37 PM
KP, Robinson, Knox, and Frank make 4 foundational pieces.

The Core Four

Jeter = KP
Mariano = Robinson
Pettitte=Frank
Posada = Knox
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 01:27:12 PM
No

Its Porzingis, Hardaway and hopefully Knox

Guy with a 7.0 PER cannot factor in.  If Knox puts that up, will you be disappointed or just say, "well, he's 18...."

Stop protecting Frank
Title: Such As?
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 01:30:12 PM
KP, Robinson, Knox, and Frank make 4 foundational pieces. There are a number of prospects on the roster who could rise to compliment that group.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/enes-kanter-of-the-new-york-knicks-puts-his-arm-around-teammate-tim-picture-id895910986?s=612x612)
Title: A lieder in the making...das goot...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:24:09 PM
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wtbc0_-glSXFlD9mXV9nEexiXyc=/0x0:3000x2000/1200x800/filters:focal(1364x167:1844x647)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57691817/FrankieSmokes_Getty_Ringer.0.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 02:36:02 PM
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Title: Youth in transition...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:39:00 PM
 :-\
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Fair enough.

And now comes that part of the lecture where you explain away the Mudiay & Ball jump shot.

More to the game than STATs, right? 

All three players have some pretty significant arrows in their quiver. 

And yet you are only dismissive of Frank. 

Color me confused.

Kindly elucidate. 

 
Title: Re: Youth in transition...
Post by: chipstern on August 10, 2018, 02:46:27 PM
:-\
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Fair enough.

And now comes that part of the lecture where you explain away the Mudiay & Ball jump shot.

More to the game than STATs, right? 

All three players have some pretty significant arrows in their quiver. 

And yet you are only dismissive of Frank. 

Color me confused.

Kindly elucidate.

PS: Lonzo?  Tallied 1.4 FTs per game, and a .451 FT %.  Frank's FT% was .721.  Proving?  Not much.  Just SAYING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 02:58:12 PM
There’s no accounting for Kiids...

On the Noah front, from NBC Sports via the Nothin But Knicks webcast, if we stretch Noah’s 2019-20 contract to open up 12.5ish Million in the 2019 free agency season we’ll have the possibility of reversing the decision before the start of the season to reverse the stretch and put his total number back on the books for 2019-20 and to be clear of him beyond next season. The displayed quote on NBK prefaced the potential to unstretch with “if the Knicks strike out in 2019 free agency,” but did not go into whether we had to start or wind up under the cap, under the tax, or could use this option regardless of salary cap situation.

I wasn’t able to find the clear rules governing this scenario, but if we can for instance use this when we’re over the cap so long as we stay under the tax line or hard cap line then using Noah to exceed the cap to within 12.5 mil of the tax line for a big payroll this year and no further consequences seems like a good avenue to keep open whether it’s to retain our own standouts or to bring in fresh faces.

As it in no way leaves us short up front this season, this “backsies” provision, should it really exist and not be a figment of the Internet & NBC Sports, makes me more in favor of executing the stretch of Jo.
Title: Re: Youth in transition...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 05:02:27 PM
:-\
Minutes - 22 per game

FT attempted - 1 per game

Fair enough.

And now comes that part of the lecture where you explain away the Mudiay & Ball jump shot.



Has nothing to do with Frank

I dont have Mudiay in our core yet, as much as I like his potential.

Ball is in another class.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
The guard rotation has to be about who can dig in on defense, allow the least openings and cause the most trouble in the process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 10, 2018, 06:15:17 PM
Just heard a respected NBA voice say how exciting DENVER will be - and in the next breath state how they added the 5-8 shrimp Thomas to the 27th ranked defense in the league

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 10, 2018, 06:35:27 PM
They’re paying Thomas close to max money right, so he’s guaranteed big minutes?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2018, 12:11:47 AM
The League trying to help the Knix lose:

Quote
The Hornets, Knicks and Wizards have 15 back-to-back sets.
The Hawks, Rockets, Heat, Thunder, Suns, Blazers and Raptors have 12 B2Bs.
Every other team has 13 or 14.
Title: A Loser's Schedule
Post by: bodiddley on August 11, 2018, 02:50:46 AM
Schedule is out and you might want to consider the under on 29.5 W's.

Knix play BKY 2x in Oct  (and a 3rd time in early Dec) so if you're rooting for W's you'd hope those games would be in 2019, when KZ is likely back.

But November is a brutal schedule.
11 Road games to just 4 Homers.
And the first two Nov Home games are Road-Home B2B's.

After an XMas game v. MIL, Knix go on a brutal 6 game road trip
(@: Mil - Uta - Den - LaL - Por - GS)
followed by games v. IND, PHI, @ Was, OKC, HOU
So that's a cruel stretch of 11 winning teams from Dec 27 to Jan 23.

Feb is 9 Home and 3 Road.
But by then Knix likely road kill.
Well, those rooting for another high pick have to like the schedule
And if Knix get buried in L's the first few months, KZ is coming back slowly and on a minutes restriction.  Might not see him til after the all-star break to be safe.

Knix also have a league high 15 2B pairings.
We meet BOS twice in the first 6 weeks, and both times it's the butt end of a B2B for the Knickers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 11, 2018, 03:18:28 AM
We’ll be what we are by the end of November, a sneakily exciting young team on the rise or a source of other clubs’ players’ highlights. The big early road trip will give us a strong sense of what we’re working with this season.
Title: In The Words Of...
Post by: chipstern on August 11, 2018, 02:32:49 PM
Anyone remember Pat Riley's first season as head coach, when we took the Bulls to seven, absorbed their best shots, and delivered some telling smackdowns of our own (than you X-Man), before they turned on the after-burners in Game 7?

"Anyone in here who doesn't believe we can win this series, there's the door."

Or words to that effect. 

Y'all do what you feel. 

Everyone has their own agenda and set of expectations. 

Rose-Colored Me?

I am not pulling for the lottery. 

PS: November seems a tad early to make any Biblical Pronouncements.  Last year we started off strong, then faded fast as Timmy and KP went down.  I would look to the post-XMAS/Pre-AllStar Game period to gauge our progress or the lack thereof.  Need to go through the league at least once, and afford some return bouts to ascertain which lessons have been learned, and which ones are yet to be inculcated. 
Title: Re: Knicks Pronouncements
Post by: carlos123 on August 11, 2018, 05:04:33 PM
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!
Title: Re: In The Words Of...
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 11, 2018, 11:52:27 PM
Anyone remember Pat Riley's first season as head coach, when we took the Bulls to seven, absorbed their best shots, and delivered some telling smackdowns of our own (than you X-Man), before they turned on the after-burners in Game 7?

"Anyone in here who doesn't believe we can win this series, there's the door."

Or words to that effect. 

Y'all do what you feel. 

Everyone has their own agenda and set of expectations. 

Rose-Colored Me?

I am not pulling for the lottery. 

PS: November seems a tad early to make any Biblical Pronouncements. Last year we started off strong, then faded fast as Timmy and KP went down.  I would look to the post-XMAS/Pre-AllStar Game period to gauge our progress or the lack thereof.  Need to go through the league at least once, and afford some return bouts to ascertain which lessons have been learned, and which ones are yet to be inculcated.

Welllll....... KP's still down

Ya think Knoxie solves that divide?

Or maybe you like Mudiay that much.

Fizz magic?

Appreciate the "who knows" stance - just not seeing it.

Remember this though - there can be pretty usable players on a poor NBA team.  Let's be careful who we kill.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: josh on August 12, 2018, 03:12:20 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2789744-2018-19-nba-schedule-win-loss-predictions-for-every-team?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#slide2 (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2789744-2018-19-nba-schedule-win-loss-predictions-for-every-team?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#slide2)

Different projections.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 13, 2018, 04:16:38 AM
Yes I have seen enough of Franky and Noah. If they can be jettisoned to give time and space to talented newbies another rebuild year would be palatable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2018, 01:26:56 PM
It looks like you are getting 1/2 your wish in Noah. If you are tired of seeing Frank, don’t watch the Knicks for the next dozen or so seasons. The growing bandwagon will quickly offer up someone to fill your seat.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
Actually, hearing that right now FN is not even in the rotation.

YOUR best look at him, Fac, may be to get tix behind the NYK bench

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 13, 2018, 02:28:41 PM
Nothing you ever claim to hear turns out to be true.

But please elaborate more on how a bizarro super-crap Knicks team would be run so I can know more about exactly what we won’t see this season. Kanter at the PF? A big contribution from Noah? Ron Burgundy making the opening roster? What else?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 13, 2018, 02:37:22 PM
Kanter has to play C now with the Noah decision.

And Knox could very well start at PF.  (I think I'd line it up that way now)

I did see one depth chart (CBS?) that had Frank starting at the 2, with Burke at the 1.

Many options for Fizz.  And lots of guesswork for fans and press.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 13, 2018, 05:02:08 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .
Title: Going...Going...GONE?
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 06:39:16 PM
That started when they traded Carmelo Anthony before last season, and it continued when they drafted two high-ceiling prospects in the first round of the NBA Draft: Kevin Knox and Mitchell Robinson. They’ll join Kristaps Porzingis (once he returns from injury) as the future of the Knicks franchise. One player who’s apparently not part of that “future” could be Courtney Lee. In an Instagram post designed to get fans excited for the “Future of New York,” the Knicks featured a mash-up of Porzingis, Knox, Robinson, Enes Kanter, Tim Hardaway Jr., Frank Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Emmanuel Mudiay and Trey Burke. Noticeably absent is Lee, who led the Knicks in total minutes last season. Hmmm.
– via CBSSports.com

As Lee was scrolling through Instagram, he noticed the Knicks’ post and decided to chime in, saying “there I go” accompanied by a crying laughing emoji. Apparently Lee is taking this as a sign that he’s not long for New York, and that a trade could be in the works.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 07:36:52 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...
Title: Re: Knicks Pronouncements
Post by: carlos123 on August 13, 2018, 09:48:31 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...


Quote
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!

Ok, “there I go”, 22 it is.
Title: Wishful Stinking
Post by: chipstern on August 13, 2018, 11:25:38 PM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...


Quote
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!

Ok, “there I go”, 22 it is.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-90LgcClqVp4/UeGN7FVVlqI/AAAAAAAAI78/dYThqQLea7g/s1600/T-34.jpg)

(http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2018%2F0621%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDHH2WPCYAMqtFw.jpg)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/pFUU7TSaUoDN6/giphy.gif)

Title: Re: Wishful Stinking
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2018, 12:22:31 AM
Team seems like a mess.
I'll start the bidding with 23 W's . . .

Dear Dear Dear...


Quote
Non-Biblical Pronouncement in August: 28

But hoping for 22

Play hard, lose hard!

Ok, “there I go”, 22 it is.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-90LgcClqVp4/UeGN7FVVlqI/AAAAAAAAI78/dYThqQLea7g/s1600/T-34.jpg)

(http://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmedia%2Fmotion%2F2018%2F0621%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo%2Fdm_180621_NBA_Draft_Knicks_boo.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDHH2WPCYAMqtFw.jpg)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/pFUU7TSaUoDN6/giphy.gif)

Hahaha

Chippo, I don’t look like any of those people, and I love the picks we made.

Here’s hoping for another great pick next year. 22 IT IS.

PS. The tank is kinda cool. Where you get it?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 14, 2018, 12:36:40 AM
Quote
D'Antoni also said he was not certain whether Anthony would be in Houston's starting lineup.

Quote
Mike D’Antoni on Carmelo Anthony:
“If I can put him in his right position & he flourishes & the team wins, we’re not going to have any problems.  Whether he starts or whether he doesn’t, doesn’t really matter. He needs to be happy & I need to find ways to make him happy.”

Of course, starting and getting his touches and iso's is what makes Melo happy . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2018, 02:33:44 AM
https://twitter.com/JabariDavisNBA/status/1029219917567016960 (https://twitter.com/JabariDavisNBA/status/1029219917567016960)

Forget sometimes how good this guy was. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 06:23:36 AM
He had a quality game & a decently long career. I was psyched we were pursuing for our bench.

If 23 wins is our goal and in our future, we should run a lot of Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, Ntilikina early in the season. If Robinson isn’t ready for a big lift, swap in Kornet so there is still a semblance of rim protection.
Title: Carlos
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 08:39:16 AM
A Soviet T-34 Tank.

Dominant armored vehicle of WWII. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2018, 01:18:33 PM
The League trying to help the Knix lose:

Quote
The Hornets, Knicks and Wizards have 15 back-to-back sets.
The Hawks, Rockets, Heat, Thunder, Suns, Blazers and Raptors have 12 B2Bs.
Every other team has 13 or 14.

ATL having three less B2Bs than us is huge for the TANK
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2018, 01:21:02 PM
Fac - I really think the writing is on the wall that Frank is a 2-guard for most of this season

We will still see him handling some.  I sure wouldnt look for it early on.

He'd have to be on the court without Mudiay or Burke out there.  Dont we want Burke IN there when Mudiay is not?

(yes, I do agree Frank could bring it up some possessions in a Burke-Ntilikina or Emmanuel-Ntilikina set - just not primarily)

------

So, forum....

Lee's money off the books for 2019-20, Kanter's, an additional 12.5 from Noah.......

Optimism?

I wanted to deal KP but with that space plus Knox-Hardaway-KP core, plus the 2019 picks we could be OK in a couple years (45+ wins)

NBAdraft.net has us with (2019 draft)

2-guard and elite scorer (Indiana) Romeo Langford - passing on Jontay Porter and Hachimura

and

seasoned senior SF (Wichita St) Markis McDuffie - a New Yorker, I believe though after hitting on Robinson we might be intrigued by Brian Bowen





Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2018, 01:32:49 PM
No more Shockers.

Wichita State needs to prove it can develop NBA players.

Not too impressed with FVV RB and CE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 02:14:36 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 02:28:21 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.

Lance is due 7 million and change in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. 

Unaware of any outs or team options.  Can you point to some evidence to the contrary? 

Meanwhile...

Don't see the Knicks positioning Knox at PF. 

A) Young

B) YOUNG

C) Body still developing

D) Physical demands of bodying up with beefier more physical players

E) KP's return

At some point in the future, I could see KP playing some 5 with Knox at the 4.  For right now, I think Fizz prioritizes Knox's short term development, and leaves the future to define itself. 

The back court? 

I could see Burke tallying more minutes at the off guard than Frank or Emmanuel, as he is better able to create his own shot.  Sure, his lack of size puts him at a disadvantage defensively, but his quickness and off the ball skills could put pressure on bigger defenders as well...make them work. 

Otherwise, speaking of logjams...

Despite Fizz loving size and length, to accommodate all of his ballhandlers and wings, still think we will see significant minutes for Hardaway and Dotson at the 3-spot, as match-ups allow, and as we attempt to foster more three-point attempts. 

Dotson is a good defender, Timmy not so much. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 14, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.

True.  With 40 mil we can offer one year deal to Free Agent A and one year to Free Agent B at 20mil each to roll the money forward to next year.  Like the Lakers did with KCP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:18:21 PM
Lance is due 7 million and change in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. 

Unaware of any outs or team options.  Can you point to some evidence to the contrary?   

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/ (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/)

In the notes at the bottom it mentions the 2019 is guaranteed to $1 million till 1/10/2020. I think he’d have banked more than that if he’s still around till January as a portion of a $7 million deal.
Title: Ball Vs. Ntilikina
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 03:26:30 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNySpbjd5g

Worth a look. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 03:28:50 PM
Lance is due 7 million and change in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020. 

Unaware of any outs or team options.  Can you point to some evidence to the contrary?   

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/ (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/lance-thomas-8713/)

In the notes at the bottom it mentions the 2019 is guaranteed to $1 million till 1/10/2020. I think he’d have banked more than that if he’s still around till January as a portion of a $7 million deal.

Interesting. 

Not sure what the implications of that are.

Can the Knicks cut him without a cap hit for his full salary? 

We shall see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:33:08 PM
One nice thing about the way our roster is composed is that we seem to have somebody who matches every physical type prevalent in the NBA.

This means in camp, along with many reps at the SF, Knox will get matched up with Vonleh, Lance, and Hicks, all big boys in the 240 range. That will give the staff a clue about if, where, and when Knox can play power forward. Similarly, by matching up with Dotson, Lee, and Hardaway in camp Knox will answer how much he can do at shooting guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 03:38:10 PM
“Released (waived) players with guaranteed contracts continue to be included in team salary. Players whose contracts are not guaranteed are included in team salary in the amount they made while they were with the team. Players on non-guaranteed "summer contracts" are not included in team salary unless they make the regular season roster.”

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap05.htm#Q57 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap05.htm#Q57)
Title: DA TANK
Post by: carlos123 on August 14, 2018, 09:06:59 PM
A Soviet T-34 Tank.

Dominant armored vehicle of WWII.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-90LgcClqVp4/UeGN7FVVlqI/AAAAAAAAI78/dYThqQLea7g/s1600/T-34.jpg)
Love it

(https://johnriddell.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/all_power_to_the_soviets.jpg)
Translation for Chico: "All Power to the Soviets"

GO KNICKS. PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD!!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 14, 2018, 09:36:43 PM
Kid, I think you are right that one of our troika of lotto points will probably see many more minutes at the wing than at the point. It won’t be Frank shifting to the wing. It will be Mudiay. Frank or Burke will start and the other will be the primary backup.

Stretching Noah and only paying Lance his guaranteed million instead of paying his full contract has us with cap holds and rookie scales with between 65-70 mil on the books. This will put us in the neighborhood of 40 million under the cap. There’s no law saying we have to commit that space to pedigree vets at top dollar right away. We could be patient, and roll the space forward to a year where our key players are further developed and defined.

Eh

We shall see

If I am betting I dont see Mudiay not quarterbacking this team when he is in
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 14, 2018, 11:24:59 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 14, 2018, 11:53:50 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?

Thank you. 

Good analysis. 

We shall see. 

More fun as a narrative than rooting for a total tank. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:12:08 AM
That was analysis?

heh
Title: Things To Watch
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2018, 12:17:15 AM
Players competing for their next contracts?

Hungry campers.

Enes Kanter is many things, but stupid is not one of them.

I believe he would dearly like to be part of the NEW New York Knicks.  And I think management is open to the possibility. 

Can he step up defensively and develop an effective long-range jumper? 

Competing for his next contract.  Don't write him or his cap hold off quite yet.

Trey Burke?

Also competing for his next contract.  He played with enormous heart and soul when he finally got his chance.  At times, he was an offensive marvel.  Can he improve his defense and ramp up his efficiency. We know he can create for himself, sort of Iverson Light.  But can he make better decisions as a facilitator?

Emmanuel Mudiay.  Next summer the Knicks hold a player option.  Is Mudiay a wash out or simply in need of context and discipline.  Fizdale has already brushed off the notion that he did not receive good coaching in Denver, speaking up for Mike Malone.  Mudiay has enormous physical presence; a big ballhandler with a robust body and good instincts, but tremendously inconsistent, some of which might come down to experience, or the lack thereof, and conditioning, or the lack thereof.  There were times, one was dumbfounded by his lack of basic skills.  There were other times, when everything snapped into focus, and you saw the makings of a first rate point guard, and possibly a truly effective defender. 

Mario Hezonja.  On a one year make good, for MCE money.  It remains to be seen if he can fulfill Fizdale's vision of a positionless player, capable of playing effectively at the 2-3-4.  What is his ideal position?  Who and how well can he defend.  I think his ability to get to the rack, move without the ball, and hit from long range, is a given, least ways, a distinct likelihood, based on the final third of his season with the Magic.  Can he defend?  Who can he defend (2-3-4?).  And at what level?  If any. 

It could go either way. 

Could come next spring, we be exulting the future of our four reclamation projects Kanter-Burke-Mudiay-Hezonja with as much passion as we are currently projecting on to Ntilikina-Knox-Robinson?  Or simply pining away for the draft lottery and free agency? 

Stay tuned.   

Pray Hard For Retards. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2018, 12:18:15 AM
That was analysis?

heh

You smirk and your snark has been duly noted. 

We look forward with keen anticipation to something other than drive bys. 

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/23703eac928c70735171d6ffc861b134/tumblr_mff4b1V8Ls1qksdrmo8_250.gif)

On that day, when Kiid offers something other than derision, an angel will get its wings. 

Help us, Clarence. 

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 12:39:44 AM
Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?
Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Interesting idea that Vonleh is on trial to become the next Lance, as we look ahead to jettisoning an aging Lance with a $1M out after next season.  Can Vonleh hit an occasional open 3-ball?  Can he switch and handle some positions other than PF?

Tim Jr. just needs to become more consistent and focused on both ends.  With more attentiveness, he could be an average defender.

Mud needs defensive work, and also rim finishing.
He is athletic and can get into the paint, but his ups just aren't there when in deep.  Maybe with better conditioning.  Just so much he needs to work on, you can see why DEN gave up on him.  It's late in the day for himto learn how to be an NBA PG, and he can't shoot to play SG.  For this upcoming season, I'm a bit apprehensive the Mud Project may retard Franc's growth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:51:30 AM
I think we want the cap space, Chip

Kanter wanted a long term deal this summer - that he didnt get it speaks volumes

Like I said, it's..........

Porzingis, Hardaway, Knox,............ add.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2018, 03:35:16 AM
Toward cap space,

The Thunder get Courtney Lee, a defensive downgrade from Robeson, but still a defender and a legit vet sniper to space the floor.

Knicks get Kyle Singler, Alex Abrines, and one of Timothe Luwawu, Terence Furgeson, or Ray Felton (who can refuse to preserve his Bird rights). Alex expires this year for a little under 5 mil. Singler has a team option in 2019-20 and makes a little over 5 mil. The other three are in the 2 mil range and either expire or have team options next summer. We let the three fight it out with Dotson and Baker for the tail slots at wing and cut the rest. We get younger with more cap space in the process.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 15, 2018, 10:49:27 AM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?

Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?

Thank you. 

Good analysis. 

We shall see. 

More fun as a narrative than rooting for a total tank.


One can appreciate BOTH a good effort by kids growing up in the NBA as well as appreciate the forces (internal an external) that land the team in a position to add a sublime talent.

Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 12:42:44 PM
Stop calling it a tank when our troops are about to do everything in their power - working their tails off - to win every possible game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 02:00:09 PM
538 projects the Knix with 25 W's and the 2nd worst record in the Association
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-our-way-too-early-nba-projections-can-tell-us-about-next-season/
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 15, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
We could most definitely be a train wreck on scale with some of our big recent train wrecks record wise, if things don’t work out.

If our talent is held to high fitness levels, communicates well and finds a way to play fluidly, they could string some wins together. The fact that we have multiple athletes good enough to get open simultaneously can be a big help, like Tim, Kevin, and Mario all looking to make space at the same time off a 1-5 pick and roll.

We can roll out a lot of shot blocking in Mitchell and Kornet or we can bully the paint with Kanter and Vonleh. We can also mix and match.

Our back court has 3 double digit scorers returning and 3 more or less promising pups.

I think we can match last season’s win total and even exceed it by 3-5 games without any contribution from KP.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 15, 2018, 03:13:10 PM
I think everyone winds up competing at as many positions as possible for a variety of roles.

The two (healthy) guys on the size extremes of this group, Kanter and Burke, are one position guys defensively who get hurt in switch situations not to mention cross-matches.

Otherwise, here are things to find out in camp that can determine rotational usage;

Can Kornet and/or Robinson check PF’s in space?

Are there SF’s Vonleh can cover?


Is Knox strong enough for some PF and sound enough for some SG’s?

Same for Mario.

Who is better defensively, Vonleh or Lance?

Can Hardaway eclipse Lee defensively?

Can Dotson?

Who, if anyone can Mudiay defend?

Can Frank defend SF’s yet, or just all the guards?

I've bolded the questions we already know the answer to. Otherwise, interesting questions.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 03:26:04 PM
You can plug in various Knix to see their CARMELo projection for the next bunch of years.  It has an O & D +/-, projected $ value.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tim-hardaway-jr/

But what I found most interesting are the player comparisons.

Lance Thomas most matches Ira Newble, with some Damien Wilkins and Jerebko in the mix.

Muddy resembles a slew of players who dropped out of the league quickly:  Telfair, Tate Armstrong, Archie Goodwin, and most closely guys I never heard of: Larry Wright & Winfred Boynes (from 1978-80).

Kanter?  David Lee, Greg Monroe, Chris Wilcox.
His projected value next year is $8M next year, dropping to ... $6M

Jimmer, Telfair, ex-Rutgers John Battle, and N8 Robinson come up as Trey Burke similarities.

Tim?  Wes Person, Tracy Murray, Will Barton and Johnny Newman turn up.  Johnny Newman had a lot of promise, could score, was inconsistent, stopped no one.

Courtly?  Raja Bell

Tim Thomas and Kenny Sky Walker come up as comparisons for Hezonja

Vonleh?
Loy Vaught.  Jordan Hill.  Tyrone Hill.  Projected to have a negative value next year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 15, 2018, 03:35:40 PM
Kind of addictive:

Dray Green matches closest to Kirilenko.
Iguodala ~ Ron Harper
Lowry ~ Billups
Saric ~ Kiki Vandeweghe
Etc ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Winfred Boynes!!!

Love it.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 15, 2018, 04:03:57 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24372973/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24372973/nba-2019-free-agent-predictions-espn-summer-forecast)


Irving and Butler would be not only be  logical but fit the pattern of putting together a super team a done previously by Miami or Golden State.  NY is a logical fit a the next location.  NY offered many things outside basketball if the basketball is successful. Madison avenue isn't far away.  Ask Clyde what's it like to win in NY.  ask Joe Namath or Keith Hernandez. 

If they truly want it to happen i believe it can happen.

Irving, Hardaway, Butler, Knox and KP ?  that would be sweet.

fantasy today? no doubt but the has been plenty of smoke in the air about this possibility.

one can only  hope it comes true.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 04:23:23 PM
So many options for the cap space - I cant begin to hang hopes on a current Celts player
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 15, 2018, 04:29:30 PM
Nice Ball-Tatum piece

https://www.lakersnation.com/did-lakers-make-mistake-lonzo-ball-instead-jayson-tatum-2017-nba-draft/2018/08/14/ (https://www.lakersnation.com/did-lakers-make-mistake-lonzo-ball-instead-jayson-tatum-2017-nba-draft/2018/08/14/)
Title: Kam the Champion Tank
Post by: carlos123 on August 15, 2018, 09:59:28 PM

One can appreciate BOTH a good effort by kids growing up in the NBA as well as appreciate the forces (internal an external) that land the team in a position to add a sublime talent.

Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief.

Brilliant!!!

(http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/soviet-mine-sweeper-t34tral.jpg)

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
Title: Circular Firing Squad
Post by: chipstern on August 15, 2018, 10:57:15 PM

One can appreciate BOTH a good effort by kids growing up in the NBA as well as appreciate the forces (internal an external) that land the team in a position to add a sublime talent.

Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief.

Brilliant!!!

(http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/soviet-mine-sweeper-t34tral.jpg)

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD

(https://media.giphy.com/media/t8vI9EexNVS24/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 16, 2018, 02:40:30 AM
Winfred Boynes!!!
Love it.

Actually I got it wrong, it's Winford Boynes.

Nets drafted Boynes with a 1st round pick they got from the Knix in the Phil Jackson trade.  Knix got a HOU 1st round pick from the NJ Nets, which NY used to draft Michael Ray Richardson.

I'm somewhat surprised I don't recall Boynes.  When the Nets joined the NBA for the 1977 season and moved to Piscataway, they were just 15 minutes away from my home.  My father would drop my brother and me and maybe a friend off at the stadium and we'd just call after the game ended.  Student tickets were I think $2.  Small stadium half full.

I mostly recall the 1977-78 season with Kevin & Howard Porter, rookie Bernard King, SuperJohn Williamson who continued shooting ABA 3-point shots despite no 3 point line, Jan van Bredakoff, Rutgers great Eddie Jordan.

The next year, Nets had Phil and Boynes, and I'm guessing we didn't go to as many games, as that team is less familiar.  Will have to ask my older brother.  And see if he recalls Winford Boynes.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 16, 2018, 04:23:30 PM
The Knicks Wall

Pretty cool site:

Perry was gifted a dumpster fire by Phil Jackson. He doused the flames and put a welcome sign with a David Fizdale fathead smack-dab in the middle. Mario Hezonja busted through the door like Kramer from Seinfeld in order to sign up. The details of Hezonja’s rumored offer from the Portland Trail Blazers hasn’t come out yet, but the fact that he declined a multi-year opportunity to sign a one-year contract with the Knicks is imperative to Perry’s narrative.

With that seemingly meaningless signing on the tiny desk, Perry and company tasted a bit of what they need in order to land their muse in 2019: desire. Hezonja’s desire to play for New York is rooted in two areas: self-actualization and culture.

The first part of Hezonja’s desire that Perry pinpointed was self-actualization. Self-actualization includes growth and reaching one’s ideal self, things Hezonja obviously craves after a disappointing start in the NBA. He still wishes to live up to the “Croatian Kobe” image he cultivated before the draft. Whatever the Blazers offered him wasn’t enough, whether it in terms of finances or his role on the team didn’t adequately feed his ego. A one-year deal where Fizdale said, “You keep what you kill”, is the exact situation that Hezonja, who was buried on Orlando’s bench at one point last season, desires. New York is offering him a shot at proving he’s worth the money he believes he deserves.

Culture, the second part of Hezonja’s decision, begins with Perry, one of the front office executives responsible for drafting Hezonja. Perry approached him after both have had multiple years of separation, with amicable yet less than favorable exits from the Magic organization, at least from their side of the table. And the culture aspect closes the deal with the sweetener the Knicks have locked up for the next four seasons: David Fizdale

Fizdale’s promise of a run & gun coaching style was part of the pitch that enamored Hezonja when it came to his duties on the court. A modern offense is a great look, and it goes hand-in-hand with Perry’s management philosophy on signings—Fizdale is as player-friendly as they come. In the immediate aftermath of his firing, a handful of future hall-of-famers tweeted in protest. They’re just tweets, but Perry recognized that when the most high profile ‘Coach Killer’ in the sport comes to your defense, your reputation is so sterling it could polish a turd, and indeed it did.

With ample cap space open for 2019 free agency, and the possibility of even more in 2020, Scott Perry has transformed the Knicks’ reputation from incompetence to growth like an expert manager. On court flubs are no longer mistakes—they’re learning opportunities. Unwanted underperformers aren’t cysts—they’re professionals who deserve to control their own destinies (ie: the nicest way to say GTFO). Over the past year, Perry hasn’t just given the Knicks a makeover with the rebrand; he put them through plastic surgery. His three tenants for favorable trades (modernity, cap flexibility, and player-centricity) combined with his specific criteria for signings, whether they be call ups for players with a chip on their shoulder or enticing free agents with the allure of Fizdale, creates a well-rounded philosophy, especially for a new GM. and a The organization still has a lot of work both on and off the court to complete, but if Perry can make Dolan disappear for a whole season, his next trick should be a doozie.



https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/ (https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 16, 2018, 06:27:36 PM
The Knicks Wall

Pretty cool site:

Perry was gifted a dumpster fire by Phil Jackson. He doused the flames and put a welcome sign with a David Fizdale fathead smack-dab in the middle. Mario Hezonja busted through the door like Kramer from Seinfeld in order to sign up. The details of Hezonja’s rumored offer from the Portland Trail Blazers hasn’t come out yet, but the fact that he declined a multi-year opportunity to sign a one-year contract with the Knicks is imperative to Perry’s narrative.

With that seemingly meaningless signing on the tiny desk, Perry and company tasted a bit of what they need in order to land their muse in 2019: desire. Hezonja’s desire to play for New York is rooted in two areas: self-actualization and culture.

The first part of Hezonja’s desire that Perry pinpointed was self-actualization. Self-actualization includes growth and reaching one’s ideal self, things Hezonja obviously craves after a disappointing start in the NBA. He still wishes to live up to the “Croatian Kobe” image he cultivated before the draft. Whatever the Blazers offered him wasn’t enough, whether it in terms of finances or his role on the team didn’t adequately feed his ego. A one-year deal where Fizdale said, “You keep what you kill”, is the exact situation that Hezonja, who was buried on Orlando’s bench at one point last season, desires. New York is offering him a shot at proving he’s worth the money he believes he deserves.

Culture, the second part of Hezonja’s decision, begins with Perry, one of the front office executives responsible for drafting Hezonja. Perry approached him after both have had multiple years of separation, with amicable yet less than favorable exits from the Magic organization, at least from their side of the table. And the culture aspect closes the deal with the sweetener the Knicks have locked up for the next four seasons: David Fizdale

Fizdale’s promise of a run & gun coaching style was part of the pitch that enamored Hezonja when it came to his duties on the court. A modern offense is a great look, and it goes hand-in-hand with Perry’s management philosophy on signings—Fizdale is as player-friendly as they come. In the immediate aftermath of his firing, a handful of future hall-of-famers tweeted in protest. They’re just tweets, but Perry recognized that when the most high profile ‘Coach Killer’ in the sport comes to your defense, your reputation is so sterling it could polish a turd, and indeed it did.

With ample cap space open for 2019 free agency, and the possibility of even more in 2020, Scott Perry has transformed the Knicks’ reputation from incompetence to growth like an expert manager. On court flubs are no longer mistakes—they’re learning opportunities. Unwanted underperformers aren’t cysts—they’re professionals who deserve to control their own destinies (ie: the nicest way to say GTFO). Over the past year, Perry hasn’t just given the Knicks a makeover with the rebrand; he put them through plastic surgery. His three tenants for favorable trades (modernity, cap flexibility, and player-centricity) combined with his specific criteria for signings, whether they be call ups for players with a chip on their shoulder or enticing free agents with the allure of Fizdale, creates a well-rounded philosophy, especially for a new GM. and a The organization still has a lot of work both on and off the court to complete, but if Perry can make Dolan disappear for a whole season, his next trick should be a doozie.



https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/ (https://theknickswall.com/the-scott-perry-effect-rebranding-a-broken-knicks-organization/)

Thank you for posting. 

And this is why, I do not look with good humor upon what I take to be a moronic fixation upon tanking or whatever you want to call it, wherein the allure of a lottery pick trumps any other considerations. 

What makes this manifestly stupid POV so appalling to me, is that as far as our future draft position goes, let the chips fall where they may.   

Looking at picks 1-14 in this latest draft, damn near any of the players picked before or after #9, could have made a solid contribution to our roster going forward. 

Perry & Fizdale did their due diligence, and while it is way too early to anoint Kevin Knox, nor to hang the franchise player albatross around his neck, clearly we got a solid all-around talent with good character to develop.  I remember when Trey Burke was having a wonderful run at season's end, and we were winning some meaningless games with good team play and even some defense, members of this forum were bemoaning the loss of prime draft position. 

[Expletive Deleted]

And son-of-a-bitch if we didn't get a prospect with a world of upside at #36. 

As for where we finish the season, I'm for winning as many games as possible, and let the chips fall where they may, as it were. 

Play Hard, Lose Hard.

[Expletive Deleted]

WRONG. 

Develop a winning culture. 

Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

A winning culture is what will cause top tier free agents to smell the coffee and dampen their undies.  And not just a winning culture.  A YOUNG WINNING CULTURE.  A young winning culture in NEW YORK.  A young winning culture in New York with KRISTAPS PORZINGIS as the bell cow. 

Not a fucking lottery pick.  Not draconian Donnie Douche Bite Your Noses To Spite Your Faces cap space self-immolation.  Not sell off your draft picks like every short term thinking, dumb-ass motherfucking Trader Vic in Knicks lore. 

But someone saying, hey [presumably, hopefully, God Willing], "Hey, look what they are building there in NY.  Man, I want a piece of that pussy.  Look at how Fizz matured and ressurected the games of castaways and re-treads like Burke, Mudiay, Herzonja and Vonleh.  Look at how they nurtured pups like Ntilikina, Kornet, Dotson, Knox and Robinson.  Look at how Fizz challenged Kanter and Hardaway to raise their games and how they responded. 

Of course, this is HIGHLY SPECULATIVE. 

And by committing to player development and fostering a winning culture, we are going to lose a lot of games. 

So no, I am not so stoned as to think we are a playoff team, but then, WHY THE FUCK NOT? 

Unlike doofusses who give the thumbs down to draft selections such as Porzingis and Knox, or who see sugarplum fairies in losses ("Keep 'em coming"), players playing for their NBA lives, players playing for a Coach like Pat Riley, like Brad Stevens, like David Fizdale, buy into the system, the concept of team play, a commitment to defense, and a passion for winning.  THEY HATE TO FUCKING LOSE. 

We have a lot of raw young talent on this team.  Very raw.  We have some big time talent (go ahead and laugh) in the likes of Enes and Timmy, that are just crying out for tough love and positive reinforcement, raising the bar for them to raise their game. 

New York wants a team to root for, a culture to finally believe in. 

Defense?  Look for the open man?  That's New York hoops is all about. 

Play Hard.  Compete Hard.  Leave It All On The Floor
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 16, 2018, 07:47:09 PM
to me the light can now be seen at the end of the tunnel.  KP and Knox are young and will attract a type A free agent. next year.

two would be ideal.
Title: FEEL THE RELIEF
Post by: carlos123 on August 16, 2018, 10:14:00 PM

I do not look with good humor upon what I take to be a moronic fixation upon tanking or whatever you want to call it, wherein the allure of a lottery pick trumps any other considerations. 

What makes this manifestly stupid POV so appalling to me, is that as far as our future draft position goes, let the chips fall where they may.   

Looking at picks 1-14 in this latest draft, damn near any of the players picked before or after #9, could have made a solid contribution to our roster going forward. 


(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ZIb0JDB7SDfYUfcArbLrsDlAcRI=/0x0:3000x2235/920x613/filters:focal(1299x405:1779x885):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60827099/1015905448.jpg.0.jpg)
While I'm very happy with the Knox pick, I would have been much happier with Doncic. Time will tell.

(http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/soviet-mine-sweeper-t34tral.jpg)

"Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief."
Kam the Champion Tank


(https://i.imgur.com/GKUFQ3U.jpg)

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/europe-46-49.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 01:04:03 AM
Hope those tanks had a/c and a good stereo system.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2018, 03:53:12 AM
I think you’d have to trick them out yourself, Bo.

Speaking of tricks, I’m ready for some more summer runs videos to over analyze.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 17, 2018, 04:01:28 AM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 17, 2018, 05:33:06 AM
They certainly didn’t buck any trends with their signings. They drafted following a paradigm that seems to be paying off, so that’s something. They also didn’t lock us into our next overpay. It does look like they are creating that opportunity for themselves next summer. If they can get through the next offseason in a cool measured fashion avoiding major mistakes then I’ll be impressed.
Title: The Psychic Friends Network
Post by: chipstern on August 17, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.

I was unaware that you had a crystal ball which allows you to divine contract offers so accurately. 

Color me impressed. 
Title: Re: The Psychic Friends Network
Post by: carlos123 on August 17, 2018, 08:44:44 PM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.

I was unaware that you had a crystal ball which allows you to divine contract offers so accurately. 

Color me impressed.

(https://previews.123rf.com/images/vtupinamba/vtupinamba1001/vtupinamba100100204/6254676-wizard-and-his-crystal-ball-waiting-for-your-future-.jpg)
BoZ and his crystal ball.

He also has a tank with AC and a good stereo system...

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/europe-46-49.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:09:16 PM
Stop calling it a tank when our troops are about to do everything in their power - working their tails off - to win every possible game.

The Knicks read the forum? 


:)


OK its not a tank. 

Feel Better?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:10:52 PM
That's what bodiddley looks like Carlos?

I always pictured him more as a MR. Spock.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:29:47 PM
This is so outterly moronic:

Quote
Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started.

Unless Fizdale sexually harasses everyone on the team we just have to not majorly screw things up.

What could derail our free agent summer dreams.... bringing back KP too soon in a misguided quixotic attempt to squeeze lemon juice from an orange.

Going all out for wins to shoot ourselves in the lottery foot is crazy.
Title: Free Agents
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 10:44:28 PM
Lakers won 35 games.  Got LeBron.

Dallas won 24 games.  Got Jordan.

Seems like free agents figure THEY are the difference.

As it should be.

I think we will be ok.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 17, 2018, 11:00:04 PM
This is so outterly moronic:

Quote
Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started.

Unless Fizdale sexually harasses everyone on the team we just have to not majorly screw things up.

What could derail our free agent summer dreams.... bringing back KP too soon in a misguided quixotic attempt to squeeze lemon juice from an orange.

Going all out for wins to shoot ourselves in the lottery foot is crazy.

KP will come back when he and his agent say so

Thats the NBA these days
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 11:28:29 PM
This is so outterly moronic:

Quote
Do any of you simple-minded motherfuckers really think that a 22 win team and a lottery pick is going to have a tremendous appeal to the likes of Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler? 

We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started.

Unless Fizdale sexually harasses everyone on the team we just have to not majorly screw things up.

What could derail our free agent summer dreams.... bringing back KP too soon in a misguided quixotic attempt to squeeze lemon juice from an orange.

Going all out for wins to shoot ourselves in the lottery foot is crazy.

KP will come back when he and his agent say so

Thats the NBA these days

So it doesn't matter what any of us say.

If Janis and Kristaps are in the tank camp or if they are in the prove yourself camp. 

More importantly where they stand in between those extremes. 

Nobody here wants to go 0-82.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 11:32:57 PM
When we say tank we aren't saying play to lose.

It could be as simple as telling KP in January "We know you say you're ready to go, why don't you take another 2-3 weeks off just to make sure"

That one organizational decision could be all that is required for the "tank" to roll through
Title: Winning Culture
Post by: Kam on August 17, 2018, 11:45:18 PM
You know who had a winning culture?

Toronto.

But they dumped their coach of the year.

They had continuity with a happy duo who had grown to be close friends off the court in Lowry and DeRozan.

Why mess with a winning culture?

Because there's winning and then there is WINNING.

And if you have to take steps back to step forward you do it.
Title: Re: The Psychic Friends Network
Post by: bodiddley on August 18, 2018, 12:59:49 AM
I assume Hezonja took a pretty decent Knick 1 year offer in order to try to up his stock and cash in next year.  If there was a POR multi-year offer, it was likely low (3/$10M maybe 3/$12M I'd guess).
Lots of players took one year deals looking towards next years FA.
So I'm not buying the PerryFizz genius scenario.

I was unaware that you had a crystal ball which allows you to divine contract offers so accurately. 

Color me impressed.

"Likely" and "I'd guess" and offering a range are hardly accurate words.

First, we don't know if POR even extended an offer to Zonja.
2nd, POR has money woes.  5th highest payroll in a small market with a middling playoff team.  They let two key bench guys walk over minor Dollars.

BLazers let very useful Ed Davissign with the Nets for a mere 1 year/$4.4M (https://www.blazersedge.com/2018/8/8/17663966/nba-free-agency-2018-trail-blazers-nba-offseason-ed-davis-bargain-nets).
He's a very good PnR/rebounding Big.

They also let RFA Shabazz Napier, their backup PG, sign a 2/$3.8M deal with BKY without matching.  Napier had a good 1st half of the season, filled in for Lillard pretty well. 

Both of these moves stemming from owing $27M next year to Evan Turner & Myers Leopard.  Turner, Mo Hark, and Aminu all play SF, while the latter two are SF/PF's like Zonja.

So POR cheaped out on two of their key backups (a total of $6.3M for next year), but they were going to offer unproven Hezonja a multi-year contract more than the Knix $6.5M one year dealio?

POR was trying to save money and lose salary.
So they let their cheap FA's walk.
All of that is why I'm skeptical POR made an offer to Zonja, or if they did I assume it was a bargain deal they tried to get him on.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 18, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
Money went to Nurkic and Curry

Swanigan and Collins are ready for Davis;s minutes.
Title: Be Still My Heart
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2018, 01:57:08 PM
"We are already hearing rumors they want to team up here before next season even has started."

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PowerfulAnchoredGoa-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: chipstern on August 18, 2018, 01:58:16 PM
Walker also saved flattering words for another French PG in Ntilikina, taken eighth in the 2017 draft. Walker was the ninth pick in 2011 — the same slot as Knicks rookie Kevin Knox.

“I like him,” Walker said of Ntilikina. “I thought he got better every day as the season went on. I’m a fan of him. He can really defend and has great length. You can see he’s getting better, man. That’s what this league is all about. I can tell he works on his game. Got to respect that.”

Title: Re: Meanwhile, Back On Planet Earth
Post by: Kam on August 18, 2018, 02:30:47 PM


“I like him,” Walker said of Ntilikina. “I thought he got better every day as the season went on. I’m a fan of him. He can really defend and has great length. You can see he’s getting better, man. That’s what this league is all about. I can tell he works on his game. Got to respect that.”


That's why Frank is in my Cour Four


Kevin
Frank
Tim
Kristaps

All homegrown#1 picks. 

Tho Tim (the only non-lottery blue chipper had a few semesters abroad)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: carlos123 on August 18, 2018, 09:58:39 PM
That's what bodiddley looks like Carlos?

I always pictured him more as a MR. Spock.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/India_statue_of_nataraja.jpg/800px-India_statue_of_nataraja.jpg)

Like Shiva, he has different forms:

Shiva's body is said to consist of five mantras, called the pañcabrahmans. As forms of God, each of these have their own names and distinct iconography:

Sadyojāta
Vāmadeva
Aghora
Tatpuruṣa
Īsāna

Plus two additional modern pañcabrahmans:

New Age crystal ball seer
MR. Spock
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
Money went to Nurkic and Curry

Swanigan and Collins are ready for Davis;s minutes.

The other Scurry got a small 2/$5.6M contract from POR.
He missed all of last year rehabbing, so was available on the cheap.

Nurkic's 4/$48 seems reasonable.
It's the Turner and Leonard contracts clogging up cap space.
Myers really needs a new team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 19, 2018, 10:35:58 AM
A good read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/17/obituaries/johnny-kline-globetrotter-turned-advocate-is-dead-at-86.html
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2018, 02:06:18 PM
Money went to Nurkic and Curry

Swanigan and Collins are ready for Davis;s minutes.

The other Scurry got a small 2/$5.6M contract from POR.
He missed all of last year rehabbing, so was available on the cheap.

Nurkic's 4/$48 seems reasonable.
It's the Turner and Leonard contracts clogging up cap space.
Myers really needs a new team.

Dont confuse things

They couldnt do anything with Turner and Leonard

Allowing the 2 restricted guys to leave (which was the issue) gave more room for Nurkic and Curry.

Lillard hated losing Davis.  Hated losing Napier

We will have to see how Curry and Baldwin turn out and how the guys getting Ed Davis's minutes play before killing POR on their moves.

Does Nurkic get the same pact, does Curry get inked if Hezonja comes on board?  Maybe not.  I dont think saying Hezonja was never offered by Portland (or POR never discussed 2 years with him) is proper thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 19, 2018, 03:55:14 PM
Ed Davis is good but of course you let him go to free up minutes for Zach Collins.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2018, 04:38:22 PM
Yeah. Big picture.  Collins can play.

Keep the big guy Nurkic happy, first and foremost.  He and Lillard are your bread and butter.
Title: Noah's Arc
Post by: chipstern on August 19, 2018, 07:00:26 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/)

Kanter
Hezonja/Vonleh
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

First off the bench [a competitive scrum here].

Kornet/Robinson
Vonleh/Hazonja, Thomas
Burke/Mudiay, Dotson

Personally, I think Hezonja would be more valuable as a sixth man coming off the bench at SF/PF, but I suspect Fizz wants to amp up his confidence.  Vonleh might be a nice stablemate for Kornet. 

Lots of options.  Month and change before Fizz gets 'em in the playpen and tosses some raw meat to the dawgs. 

I could also see Burke playing off the ball with Mudiay at the point. 
Title: Re: Noah's Arc
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 19, 2018, 07:23:06 PM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/knicks-new-rebounding-machine-looks-to-reboot-career/)

Kanter
Hezonja/Vonleh
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina


First off the bench [a competitive scrum here].

Kornet/Robinson
Vonleh/Hazonja, Thomas
Burke/Mudiay, Dotson

Personally, I think Hezonja would be more valuable as a sixth man coming off the bench at SF/PF, but I suspect Fizz wants to amp up his confidence.  Vonleh might be a nice stablemate for Kornet. 

Lots of options.  Month and change before Fizz gets 'em in the playpen and tosses some raw meat to the dawgs. 

I could also see Burke playing off the ball with Mudiay at the point.

Guess or preference?

I think Fiz likes Mudiay.  You have said yourself.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 19, 2018, 10:12:09 PM
I think a good way to preserve Mario’s confidence is to keep him from matching up with starting power forwards. The first bench wing role makes the most sense if Knox starts at small forward. When he got posted up, Mario allowed his man to score 70% of the time. Since we know Kanter will provide little to no help, it’s a very bad idea to play them together at center and power forward.

Mudiay has a lot of guys to outplay if he wants to carve out a significant role for himself.
Title: Kanter and Thomas
Post by: Kam on August 19, 2018, 10:24:25 PM
Considering Lance can be bought out for $1 mil next summer, he is essentially an ending contract.

At some point near the deadline we will probably hear rumors of (Insert Star player on under-performing team here) for Kanter and Thomas

Maybe Butler.
Title: Re: Kanter and Thomas
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 12:40:11 AM
Considering Lance can be bought out for $1 mil next summer, he is essentially an ending contract.

At some point near the deadline we will probably hear rumors of (Insert Star player on under-performing team here) for Kanter and Thomas

Maybe Butler.

Bull

Shit
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 12:50:42 AM
Quote
Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

If you start Mud over Franc, that would be some ghastly defense.

And all of your primary defenders -- Franc, Vonleh, Courtly, Lance -- come off the bench.

Figure Hardaway & Kanter are locks to start.
Knox probably a starter because his development is important.
Then you need to get at least one of Vonleh or Franc in the starting 5.  Maybe you need both.  Gotta have someone setting the tone and trying on the less glamorous end.

Kant
Vonleh/Lance
Knox
Tim Jr.
Franc

Provides some balance.
Let's Tim and Knox offend.
Encourages Franc to shoot more.
Our Bigs clean the glass and get putbacks.

Then the bench offers up Burke's scoring paired with Courtly's muted balanced game.  Zonja shooting.  Muddy's erraticism.  Plus some Lance D.  [Kornet and Robinson in limited spot duty as Knix small out]

Mixes and matches some defenders and scorers on both units.

I kind of have Muddy in a mystery role until we see if he's improved on anything and/or until we move Courtly.
Title: Re: Kanter and Thomas
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 12:58:30 AM
Considering Lance can be bought out for $1 mil next summer, he is essentially an ending contract.

At some point near the deadline we will probably hear rumors of (Insert Star player on under-performing team here) for Kanter and Thomas

Maybe Butler.

This makes no sense . . .
Title: So you'd say it was
Post by: Kam on August 20, 2018, 01:27:06 AM
Highly illogical?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 02:26:20 AM
Quote
Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Ntilikina

If you start Mud over Franc, that would be some ghastly defense.

And all of your primary defenders -- Franc, Vonleh, Courtly, Lance -- come off the bench.

Figure Hardaway & Kanter are locks to start.
Knox probably a starter because his development is important.
Then you need to get at least one of Vonleh or Franc in the starting 5.  Maybe you need both.  Gotta have someone setting the tone and trying on the less glamorous end.

Kant
Vonleh/Lance
Knox
Tim Jr.
Franc


Provides some balance.
Let's Tim and Knox offend.
Encourages Franc to shoot more.
Our Bigs clean the glass and get putbacks.

Then the bench offers up Burke's scoring paired with Courtly's muted balanced game.  Zonja shooting.  Muddy's erraticism.  Plus some Lance D.  [Kornet and Robinson in limited spot duty as Knix small out]

Mixes and matches some defenders and scorers on both units.

I kind of have Muddy in a mystery role until we see if he's improved on anything and/or until we move Courtly.

Makes sense in terms of a balance between offense and defense.  Hezonja as a sixth man, plugged in at SF/PF. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 03:33:03 AM
I know Kanter gets a big salary this year, he’s fully dedicated, plays with heart, is among the best in his areas of strength, but I hope to see either Kornet or Robinson surpass and surplant him as #1 in the pecking order.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 20, 2018, 06:24:03 AM
I suspect Kornet and Robinson have a ways to go to even be decent rotation players.

My starting 5 of: Kant - Vonleh - Knox - Tim Jr. - Franc
is decidedly weak on 3-point shooting.
But once KZ comes back, plug him in at PF and the D and spacing improve significantly.

Fizz has mentioned speeding up the pace which could mean Burke gets a crack at starting PG.  But that craters the D, doesn't help with 3's, and means one of Franc/Mud get lost in the mix.

I don't really have much of a read on Fizz, except that he said he wants a genuine SF at SF.  And seems to want to push, which could help make up some for our lack of outside shooting.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 01:28:27 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: vitriTig on August 20, 2018, 02:37:41 PM
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/lyuminoterapiya-svet-protiv-depressii/)
(http://www.domashnijspasalon.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/88.jpg) (https://vitri.com.ua/lyuminoterapiya-svet-protiv-depressii/)
  2018-2019:       
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/chto-rasskazat-rebenku-pro-ded-moroza/)
    2018-2019,    .   2018-2019      .     .
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/otkuda-beretsya-cellyulit/)
           .      ,   ,           :         .    ,        ,       ,        2018-2019.            .     ,      ,  ,   ,    .         ,           2018-2019   .           2018-2019,               .         ,    2018-2019,      ,        .    2018-2019    ?       .    2018-2019         . ,   ,             2018-2019.     2018-2019          ,   ,    . ,         2018-2019  ,          ,   ,          .              ,       .         2018-2019.   2018-2019      .          2018-2019,     . -      , , , , ,   ,  .   ,     2018-2019  ,    ,    ,    .    ,      ,            . 2018-2019                 .     ,         (   ),         2018-2019.  2018-2019        .     2018-2019         . ,           ,    .    ,  2018-2019           .   , ,     .        .                   .     2018-2019    ,   .              .     ,         ,      .       ,      ,      .         ,      .    ,      ,         2018-2019.   2018-2019          .   ,   ,   ,  ,         .      ,         ,    ,        .   2018-2019     .          ,      .       ,    ,        .       .     2018-2019       .        2018-2019           .        ,    ,           2018-2019 .
: , ,     (https://vitri.com.ua/lyuminoterapiya-svet-protiv-depressii/)
Title: Re: Vitri
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2018, 02:56:59 PM
Vitri, you the masseuse or the massaged? One of the stones? A flower? Maybe a candle?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 04:24:50 PM
Maybe we should all just relax about next year...

I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor. I think Fizz can meld those individuals into a highly effective unit. The success will hinge on getting efficiency from four guys who shot under .420 from the field and a rookie. I think it can be done running the kind of plays Fizz ran in Memphis, especially if fundamentals truly get developed in camp and preseason.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 04:40:22 PM
Nice

Now get excited about the others and we will be on the same page.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 05:33:21 PM
Maybe we should all just relax about next year...

I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor. I think Fizz can meld those individuals into a highly effective unit. The success will hinge on getting efficiency from four guys who shot under .420 from the field and a rookie. I think it can be done running the kind of plays Fizz ran in Memphis, especially if fundamentals truly get developed in camp and preseason.

SIGH

Yet again, you have essayed an alternate universe in which Enes Kanter is not a part of this team going forward, let alone as part of the starting five for 2018-2019.   

You are my Brother, Facil, Brother Kam, too, but this sniffy, dismissive tonality (by my admittedly lesser lights) has gotten very old.  VERY old. 

Many have presumed, rather prematurely it seems, that Kanter is out of here. 

He is, until further notice, our starting center. 

Whether Fizz and Perry (and Enes) choose to move on, or to come to some sort of ongoing commitment moving forward, would seem to me, TO BE PREDICATED ON HOW HE PLAYS AND HOW HE IMPROVES IN 2018-2019. 

I will accept the mockery of others, this being a mostly free country, when I state what should seem obvious, which is that Kanter raised his game as a Knick, as did another player universally pissed on, Timmy Hardaway. 

They are both only 26.  Both have room for significant improvement under Coach Fizdale's watch. 

Oh right, old dogs, ergo, no new tricks.   

Hey, dogs gonna bark, and doubters going sniff.  My opinion has no more legitimacy than anyone else's on this forum. 

It's all chin music, and it's all good. 

But listening to members of our congregation rooting for the lottery, while others, as is their wont, piss on those players they view as busts or hypes or place holders for cap space (Ntilikina, Hardaway, Kanter) really fries my onions. 

Fizdale has proclaimed a clean slate going in for every Knick on the roster starting with training camp. 

It's called H-O-P-E, and until proven otherwise, it is nice to have some for a fucking change. 

Not hope for the fucking lottery, but hope for progress, commitment, a winning culture going forward. 

Would but that the team's fickle fans and amateur GMs felt the same. 

All of these newbies and reclamation projects share one thing.  They want to prove themselves, to each other, to the coach and to the fans of New York.  They want to be part of a team Knicks fans can be proud of.  And last time I checked, Enes bled blue and orange.  He is a competitor.  We need more like him, not less. 

I'm a pop pom gurl, right?

My devalued two cents. 

We now return to our regularly scheduled pogrom.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 07:00:24 PM
I was initially with you Chip but not after hearing Knicks wouldnt give Enes a long term offer that he sought

I think he is a possible deadline deal guy - out of NY - if we can get any picks.


Potential free agent centers for 2019-20  (many wont be available   *unrestricted)


Horford
Pachulia*
B Lopez*
Biyombo
McGee*
Koufos*
M Gasol
Asik
Jordan*
Howard
P Gasol
Udoh*
R Lopez*
J Smith*
OQuinn*
Valenciunus
Cousins*
Gortat*
Kanter*
Nene
Baynes
Noel
Dedmon*
Ajinca*
Birch
Whiteside
Turner
Cauley Stein
Marjanovic*
Mejri*
Zubac
Hammons
D Jones
D Davis
G hernangomez
Poeltl
Onuaku
Maker
Zizic
Markaanen
Z Collins
Bradley
Kornet
Patton Adebayo
Allen
Bryant
D Johnson
Anigbogu




Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 08:39:26 PM
Good Knicks on MSG - 8 and 10 PM

early season win and one from March
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 20, 2018, 08:46:23 PM
I’d just say that Hardaway is as close as we have to a locked in starter at this point.
Title: Enes and the Lotto
Post by: carlos123 on August 20, 2018, 09:32:27 PM

SIGH

Yet again, you have essayed an alternate universe in which Enes Kanter is not a part of this team going forward, let alone as part of the starting five for 2018-2019.   

Many have presumed, rather prematurely it seems, that Kanter is out of here. 

He is, until further notice, our starting center. 

... Kanter raised his game as a Knick, as did another player universally pissed on, Timmy Hardaway. 

But listening to members of our congregation rooting for the lottery, while others, as is their wont, piss on those players they view as busts or hypes or place holders for cap space (Ntilikina, Hardaway, Kanter) really fries my onions. 

All of these newbies and reclamation projects share one thing.  They want to prove themselves, to each other, to the coach and to the fans of New York.  They want to be part of a team Knicks fans can be proud of.  And last time I checked, Enes bled blue and orange.  He is a competitor.  We need more like him, not less.


Chip, some of us tankers love Enes. At least I do, and hope he remains a Knick.

We also want the team to play hard and improve, but a playoff run in 2018-19 is just not realistic. Therefore we want the best lotto position we can get, hopefully by losing a lot of games by 1 point or 2. Not by playing to lose, but because there's a bunch of new players who are very young and haven't played together.

Then we get the best lotto pick and a transcendent FA or two, and run over Boston and Philly in 2019-20. Pompomgurly enough for you? I wanna revert to positive pussy #3, after you and Kam who share #1 & 2.

PLAY HARD. LOSE HARD
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/europe-46-49.jpg)


"Don't take the tank so personally.  Let its studded wheels roll over your prone squishy body.  And feel the relief."
Kam the Champion Tank
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:27:20 PM
Johnny One Note

Roll over THIS. 
Title: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: chipstern on August 20, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 10:43:15 PM
Riiiiight - then after losing all those close games the following year you start to win them

heh

Close losses suck.  Want the kids that w ill be with us to know how to close.

I expect .500 record or better in games decided by 4 or less.  THAT - not looking at a roster - will show promise.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on August 20, 2018, 10:52:21 PM
I’d just say that Hardaway is as close as we have to a locked in starter at this point.

Based on his abilities......or based on his contract?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 20, 2018, 11:00:17 PM
Both

By ability to put the ball in the hoop nobody is close.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 12:18:32 AM
Though he'll also lead the team in airballs ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 01:26:08 AM
He’s also our most prolific pouter/sulker. There’s a non-zero chance he doesn’t stay on Fizz’s good side or slumps his way from starting to the bench.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 06:22:02 AM
Happy thoughts about Hardaway. Let’s give him some stability at PG for a while, along with steady health and see how he performs.

Now to extend some cap space.

I’m assuming Noah is stretched regardless & we have an eye to giving Lance his million and free agency in a year the cap jumps at least 8 million. We my keep Lance for 2019-20 & pay out the stretch if we don’t like our options with free agents and trades next summer.

To create some more space we could offer Lee, Baker, and Burke for Shumpert and Zach Randolph.

This saves Sacramento about 4 million this year, but costs them Lee’s salary in addition to the 30 something million the currently have committed (to 9 guys, which is pretty damn good). So they’d still be in double-max territory.

Lee would be the sole productive vet of any league tenure on the Kings. As a floor stretcher, diligent defender, and passionate competitor who takes care of his body and has been remarkably consistent throughout his career, he can mentor Jackson, Bogdonovic, Artis, McLemore, and Hield. It would be similar to what we’ve asked and would ask of him if he stays in NY. He’d get more minutes backing up Buddy than Tim most likely. Tim has actually had some career molding already and is more of a finished product. In addition, Burke would be an upgrade to backup pg over Frank Mason, who they’d be able to keep as 3rd pg unless he beats out Burke.

We’d be down to 15 contracts. I’d also cut Shump who I don’t believe is really healthy and get Shabbaz Mohammed for a 2 year minimum deal, or 1 year with team option.

Kanter Kornet  KP
Vonleh ZBo Robinson
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Hardaway Dotson Mohammed
Ntilikina Mudiay Allen 

Next year it would be

KP
Robinson
Knox Mohammed
Hardaway Dotson
Ntilikina

With QO’s to Kornet & Mudiay, a first and second round pick, and about $60 million to work with under the cap.

This year we’d have more positional depth and balance.

Not sure if it’s more or less likely than Arbines and Singler.

I’d be willing to add a 2nd rounder in 2020 or later to either of those deals.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 08:04:49 AM
Though he'll also lead the team in airballs ...

Would make sense
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 08:07:35 AM
I think Burke starts for the first 50-60 games.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 09:06:32 AM
The upside appears to be there.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 09:46:56 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)



My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)



My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)

Boston

PG - Cousy (local)
SG - Sharman (founding father)
SF - Cornbread (funderdog)
PF - Bird (GOAT)
C - Russell (golden era)
Coach - Auerbach

You could shuffle a lot of guys there, especially for Sharman or Cornbread.


Toronto

PG - Cory Joseph (local)
SG - Demar (golden era)
SF - Vince (founding father)
PF - JYD (underdog)
C - Bosh (GOAT)


Brooklyn / NJ

PG - Kidd (GOAT)
PG - Starbury (local)
SF - Dr J (founding father)
PF - KMart (golden era)
C- Jayson Williams (underdog)


Philly

SG - Greer (golden era)
SG - Toney (underdog)
SF - Dr J (GOAT)
PF - Schayes (founding father)
C- Wilt (local)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 10:45:33 AM
Hardaway. Let’s give him some stability at PG for a while, along with steady health and see how he performs.

I've made mention of this as well.
Tim Jr. might look better with solid or league average PG play.
And as always it helps to stay healthy.


Fizz apparently wants to push the pace which could indicate Burke starting at PG.  Wouldn't surprise me, but our defense will be ugly, and one of Franc/Mud gets buried as 5th G.

I'd go with Franc.
But I guess it's more important who starts at PG after KZ is back.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 21, 2018, 12:25:49 PM
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/20/new-york-knicks-courtney-lee-nba-trade-rumors/
Article touting Courtly and his trade value.
Mentions that PHI and WAS were supposedly interested.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 01:13:57 PM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)



My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)

Boston

PG - Cousy (local)
SG - Sharman (founding father)
SF - Cornbread (funderdog)
PF - Bird (GOAT)
C - Russell (golden era)
Coach - Auerbach

You could shuffle a lot of guys there, especially for Sharman or Cornbread.


Toronto

PG - Cory Joseph (local)
SG - Demar (golden era)
SF - Vince (founding father)
PF - JYD (underdog)
C - Bosh (GOAT)


Brooklyn / NJ

PG - Kidd (GOAT)
PG - Starbury (local)
SF - Dr J (founding father)
PF - KMart (golden era)
C- Jayson Williams (underdog)


Philly

SG - Greer (golden era)
SG - Toney (underdog)
SF - Dr J (GOAT)
PF - Schayes (founding father)
C- Wilt (local)

Cornbread?

How about Paul Pierce?

Also, Larry Bird played the 3-spot.  McHale played the 4-spot, as did Tommy Heinsohn and Paul Silas. 

Oh, and Ewing over Reed?  Starks over Monroe or Barnett?  JVG over Holtzman? 

To each his own.  A matter of our relative ages, I suspect. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 01:16:15 PM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)



My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)

Ewing
Frazier
Fredette
King
Nauls
Holzman
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 01:48:33 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

DECIDED he wants to be here

That's the point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 21, 2018, 02:37:19 PM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)



My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)


Cornbread?

How about Paul Pierce?

Also, Larry Bird played the 3-spot.  McHale played the 4-spot, as did Tommy Heinsohn and Paul Silas. 

Oh, and Ewing over Reed?  Starks over Monroe or Barnett?  JVG over Holtzman? 

To each his own.  A matter of our relative ages, I suspect.

Pierce wasn't really an underdog, as he was a lottery pick who was the centre of the team for years.

Bird was a 3, sure (he'd be a 4 today), but just wanted to make room for Maxwell.

Monroe, like Pierce, doesn't count as the underdog type I was looking for over Starks. I agree that he was a better player than Starks.

Red over JVG makes more sense, I'll concede.


Ewing
Frazier
Fredette
King
Nauls
Holzman

So the same team (I'll concede Holzman, as I said) save for Nauls over Gallatin and....Jimmer?
Title: Richie Guerin & The Big O
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 04:31:07 PM
Cribbing from an online discussion, and paraphrasing. Who would be the Knicks starting five under the following rules:

- one who can reasonably be viewed as the GOAT
- one star from the team's golden era
- one founding father / OG player, perhaps forgotten by modern fans
- one player with a strong local connection
- one underdog type player
- the coach is the one who was most beloved by the fans

Additionally, the players should form something approximating an actual starting five (ie, cannot start Ewing/Reed/Oakley/DeBusschere/Tyson)



My take:


PG - Clyde (golden era)
SG - Starks (underdog)
SF - King (local connection)
PF - Harry the Horse (founding father)
C - Ewing (GOAT)
Coach - JVG

Toughest pick, really, was local connection (Melo, Marbury, Mark Jackson, Richie Guerin, Carl Braun)


Cornbread?

How about Paul Pierce?

Also, Larry Bird played the 3-spot.  McHale played the 4-spot, as did Tommy Heinsohn and Paul Silas. 

Oh, and Ewing over Reed?  Starks over Monroe or Barnett?  JVG over Holtzman? 

To each his own.  A matter of our relative ages, I suspect.

Pierce wasn't really an underdog, as he was a lottery pick who was the centre of the team for years.

Bird was a 3, sure (he'd be a 4 today), but just wanted to make room for Maxwell.

Monroe, like Pierce, doesn't count as the underdog type I was looking for over Starks. I agree that he was a better player than Starks.

Red over JVG makes more sense, I'll concede.


Ewing
Frazier
Fredette
King
Nauls
Holzman

So the same team (I'll concede Holzman, as I said) save for Nauls over Gallatin and....Jimmer?

Hard to argue with Jimmer, given his extensive resume as a Knick.

I guess I didn't understand your format. 

I'm old enough to remember those Knicks teams with Willie Naulls, and Jumping Johnny Green.  Dick McGuire was the PG on all of those '50s Knicks teams that challenged for the championship year after year, but kept running into George Mikan's Lakers.  I was born in 1952, so I was not really conscious of those Knicks teams or much else, save for Crusader Rabbit & Ragland T. Tiger, Abbott & Costello and The Lone Ranger. 

Tell you who I do remember as a Knick, was Richie Guerin who was a scoring machine from all over the floor. In 1961-62, he averaged 29.2 ppg, 6.4 boards and 6.5 assists.   
Alas, even then, to be a Knicks fan was to suffer. 

I remember attending a Knicks-Royals game at the old Garden on 50th & 8th; Lincoln's Birthday, 1961...I had just turned 9. 

Knicks jumped on the Royals in the first quarter by a score of 43-21.  Yikes.  Naulls, Green and Guerin were lighting it up.  But the Royals had this Oscar Robertson fellow.

Guerin scored 24.  Oscar scored 32.

Royals won...wait for it...Wait For It...WAIT FOR IT...105-104. 

Sound familiar? 

How do I remember all of this.

All I really remembered was that the Knicks were killing, Oscar stepped up, and they lost by one. 

I told this story to BoD, and he was kind enough to track down the original box score and pass it on to me. 

Loved those Royals teams of the 1960s with Oscar and Wayne Embry and Jack Twyman and Jerry Lucas.  Great teams, however, like those great Philly teams (save for 1966-67), they always ran into those damn Celtics.  They just didn't have the bench depth...or Bill Russell. 

Still, when people genuflect about Michael Jordan, and not to take anything away from him or his six rings, but the greatest of all time? 

Sorry, no sale...OSCAR ROBERTSON. 

For all intents and purposes, the man was a walking triple double night in, night out, season after season.  Great physical gifts, but what really set him apart was his intuition, his court vision, his genius for the game.  A very heady player.  And at 6'5", a big, powerful guard, with a great all around game: 25.7 ppg-7.5 rebounds-9.5 assists, with a career .838 FT%, playing 42.2 mpg over 14 seasons. 

Y'all know that butt bump Mark Jackson used to like to deploy to set up midrange shots?  That was Oscar Robertson's bread and butter.  He could get any shot he wanted, any time he wanted. 

Finally, let me preface this observation by cautioning that what follows is a one-dimensional, superficial comparison.  I reckon Kiid will like it though...fair enough. 

In looking at the Knicks roster, in terms of a physical specimen, a 6'5" guard with a big powerful body that reminds me of Oscar. 

EMMANUEL MUDIAY

Body.  Not game.  BODY. 

As for the kid's game, we shall see, won't we. 

I am intrigued to see how the competition between Burke, Ntilikina and Mudiay plays out.  If we could splice genetic material from all three into one PG, we'd be shitting in tall cotton, yes we would. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 09:06:48 PM
Mudiay employed a nice turnaround J last season

Re:  the poll and Jimmer

We could take down Clyde and Jimmer and replace them with Lin (underdog) and Earl (player from golden era) if you like
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 09:07:32 PM
Lin, Monroe, King, Nauls, Ewing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 21, 2018, 09:14:56 PM
GOAT - Clyde
Golden era - Willis
Local - King
Underdog - Mason
Founding father - way before my time.
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: Kam on August 21, 2018, 09:39:33 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see.

You are obsessed with enes.  The original post said he was excited to see the youngsters Frank, Knox etc... to which you took great exception as if he was setting his starting lineup.  You read that wrong and you inserted your enes bias into a post where he wasn't even mentioned.

This is the post by Fac that got your Enes antlers up:

Quote
I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor.


DOES THAT SAY STARTING AT CENTER Koronet Pizza?  No.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 21, 2018, 11:19:26 PM
I think it implies that is his preferred lineup, yes.
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: chipstern on August 21, 2018, 11:29:23 PM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see.

You are obsessed with enes.  The original post said he was excited to see the youngsters Frank, Knox etc... to which you took great exception as if he was setting his starting lineup.  You read that wrong and you inserted your enes bias into a post where he wasn't even mentioned.

This is the post by Fac that got your Enes antlers up:

Quote
I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor.


DOES THAT SAY STARTING AT CENTER Koronet Pizza?  No.

Nice try. 

Looks suspiciously like a starting five to anyone not buying into your Guiliani-ready argument. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 22, 2018, 12:46:35 AM
I am hoping for a Frank /Burke PG backcourt that last one year.

then of course i hope Irving leaves Boston to join NY.

EK's money will be needed to sign Irving.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2018, 01:25:47 AM
I am hoping for a Frank /Burke PG backcourt that last one year.

then of course i hope Irving leaves Boston to join NY.

EK's money will be needed to sign Irving.

Fair enough. 

Only one problem with that.

Everyone seems to be assuming that Kyrie is a lock to come here. 

They are building something in Boston. 

Why would Kyrie want to bolt when he could be competing for the EC Finals for the next five years? 

Knicks are going to be better.  Celtics are already there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 22, 2018, 01:30:45 AM
Zaza started for the Dubs for how long? There are all kinds of reasons to start guys and all kinds of ways to deploy starters in rotations.

I think it is highly unlikely the combo of Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina will be the starting group on opening night. There is something about a track record of production that takes a monstrous camp and preseason performance to overcome. Kanter averaged a solid double-double in short minutes and epitomized commitment last season. He will most likely start.

Burke was better at running the prior Knick system than Frank was at the close of last year. If that remains the case after camp and Burke shows effective D, he should start. Mudiay looked worse than both of them, but it’s a new system so who knows?

I expect Knox to beat out Mario for starting SF.

Tim I’ve talked about.

I think Vonleh is better than Lance, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see Lance start anyway.

Starters could be Kanter, Thomas, Knox, Hardaway, and Burke.

This lineup will be easy to attack at the C and PG for a lot of teams. Rebounding is there. Thomas provides some leadership on D and hits 3’s at a good clip. It still seems like a recipe for getting in the hole early.

Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, Ntilikina gives you good length at every position with four guys who at least somewhat cover three positions along with actual shot blocking production at center. On the other side, you can play 5 out and run double screens, back picks, and other actions until a bad matchup can be taken right into the post or driven by while a big is locked outside on Kornet. This could be good for everyone’s shooting percentage. You also have Frank, Tim, and Kevin to break with NV filling the lane. Vonleh also hoovers boards. 7’, 6’9”, 6’9”, 6’5”, 6’5” is pretty ideal size for an NBA lineup, but this group is inexperienced, so far inconsistent and inefficient. Can Fiz get this group to play like it seems they should be able to on paper? Also, KP should be able to replace Kornet in that lineup when he’s ready and find a group ready to cater to his strengths and protect his weaknesses from the jump. KP, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, Ntilikina makes even more sense. For now, Kornet is a stand in.

Robinson, Vonleh, Thomas, Dotson, and Ntilikina might be our best defensive lineup. You could say Lee over Dotson, but Lee was dogging it by the time the year wound down & isn’t getting any quicker which is key to exceptional D. If we are very lucky, Knox will be every bit the defender that Thomas is, in which case his offense would be welcomed in this lineup. Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Dotson, Ntilikina. We’d need to see efficiency from our sophomore guards for this to be worth pursuing.

To open, we have 3 bigs (Kanter, Kornet, Robinson) with very different games. We need to make the best of them till KP gets back. We also have 3 forwards (Vonleh, Thomas, Knox) who are similarly dissimilar. The coach needs to find the right combination in each situation. Among the rest we need to find 4 or 5 outside players who help us all the time when they are on the court.

Because of the KP recovery (no matter who you prefer as the other big), our starting situation will be less than ideal this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 22, 2018, 07:45:10 AM
To open, we have 3 bigs (Kanter, Kornet, Robinson) with very different games.

Yeah. Proven, nascent, and raw.

I'd be surprised if Kornet Chop Suey gets more than 10 mins per game.  I think we'll small it up a good deal when Kanter is out.

I'm not really a fan of Kanter, but he's a workhorse with a good attitude.  Let him focus on what he's good at, and see if he can slightly improve his D.

And then see what the market rate for him is next year.
There's a distinct C glut and prices are dropping. 

The most valuable C's these days are the guys who can protect the rim and dominate in PnR.  Gobert, Capela, DeAndretheGiant (and to a lesser extent OKC's Grizzly Adams).   
Then there are the athletic scorers; Towns, Embiid, Drummond.
Followed by guys like Ma Gasol, Cousin Boogie, Kev Love who can score inside and shoot 3's as the next valuable type.
Jokic stands out for his passing ability (formerly a Ma Gasol speciality).
That's 11.

Next tier is a grab-bag of guys like Dwight (in decline), Miles Turner (should be ascending), Nurkic.  Whiteside, who seems to have mental issues.  Up to 15.

Guys who can score inside and board, but don't offer rim protection, PnR menace, passing or good D are kind of anomalies: Kanter, Valanciunas, Vucevic, Monroe.
They can be useful role players but not the type you want to pay too much for.  They can be exploited especially in the playoffs.

Young C's who might be heard from:
Turner, Poetl, Len, Dieng, Maker
Ayton is expected to make a rook year impact.
No idea on La Bomba.
Title: Re: 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...Expiring Contracts
Post by: Kam on August 22, 2018, 10:35:54 AM
Of course Enes wanted a long term contract. 

Knicks were not inclined to given ANYBODY a long term contract. 

Enes tested the market, and found what the THREE D's--DeAndre and DeMarcus and Dwight--discovered. 

With the exception of Kristaps, Kevin, Frank and Mitchell, everyone is on the clock. 

I think it is premature define Enes as in or out. 

The trading deadline will mean pins and needles for EVERYONE, not just Enes.  A lot of one and done contracts.  And there will be a lot of give and take between the Knicks and their free agents, as players are taking a chance on the Knicks, and Knicks are taking a flyer on players.  You have to think there is some understanding between players and the Knicks going forward.  Not that anyone is making guarantees to each other.  Just open lines of communication. 

In any event, Enes has considerable passion about remaining a Knick. 

Prove it, kid.  Prove it Enes.  Make your case.

Ditto Baker, Mudiay, Burke, Trier, Hicks, Hezonja, Vonleh...

That's SEVEN players besides Enes with expiring contracts (or, as with Mudiay, the Knicks can choose to pick up his option...or not).  Significantly, yes, Enes' contract is for what, $19 million?  Thus all of the conjecture and scenarios. 

We shall see.

You are obsessed with enes.  The original post said he was excited to see the youngsters Frank, Knox etc... to which you took great exception as if he was setting his starting lineup.  You read that wrong and you inserted your enes bias into a post where he wasn't even mentioned.

This is the post by Fac that got your Enes antlers up:

Quote
I, for one, am rather amped to see Kornet, Vonleh, Knox, Hardaway, and Ntilikina take the floor.


DOES THAT SAY STARTING AT CENTER Koronet Pizza?  No.

Nice try. 

Looks suspiciously like a starting five to anyone not buying into your Guiliani-ready argument.

You're wrong.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 22, 2018, 11:30:38 AM
It's a big world, and there's ample room for all of us to be wrong. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 22, 2018, 12:47:58 PM
Lin and Mase are both great calls for underdogs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 22, 2018, 07:25:58 PM
It's a big world, and there's ample room for all of us to be wrong.

That's right.
Title: Not rolling
Post by: carlos123 on August 22, 2018, 10:17:15 PM
Johnny One Note

Roll over THIS.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/k_oKDc6U_8WCVFhZT7A9ePsya6SeaVSXCAETURgvU7khbahPini7Wkgn0_6qOLejkHX09khNBD5ixEcM0yVTLNXRTLgGtP8FTS-ijLV-1suB4V8FwLSxwqW9khm_9ogxGG0vOeBeLe41v6zCc6bpA1WXX9n97He6PS-gv5GEjXU5Sz5WAvlFYIVH03W4OYokWJz6vu1O8gxntakOqKdoetLRZ5dNOynlM0ZjLTbHbH7pp8nYgjk_GqbWbbgDUQiyXsOmYgtw6wxQlvfJ9sGF5aKzHuCNH9Qw7YTGRYNstZXR6hknaMnlkmgBxRoMOOsSnWYU7i_fkdjwMryZ7YU1qw0_XWB885vHlPdKYQJn1XCHPu1Idgv8qAFeliufdYEJldr1TYAHuuiWVuBEcEJfbVJvJneq3UHHRFFiD4H6vVq1XoT48k3KLNZ5tX0qD00MQX0wgAMYtn1upYfJA4Wr4otQV2yMhWLGuuOl9fxmYJ6yaIoICR088HdrHAXIvB0RPJErF3Rjx-TnF3oBb2lUTc67lVAFngA9KBGUwDMD8BzeKlmXvx2CylvQRNz9hmgd5pDkCHEvMg4osAIy8xoKCh8q4-8aDpQHC9uFwBM=w871-h537-no)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 23, 2018, 07:36:04 AM
I am hoping for a Frank /Burke PG backcourt that last one year.

then of course i hope Irving leaves Boston to join NY.

EK's money will be needed to sign Irving.

Fair enough. 

Only one problem with that.

Everyone seems to be assuming that Kyrie is a lock to come here. 

They are building something in Boston. 

Why would Kyrie want to bolt when he could be competing for the EC Finals for the next five years? 

Knicks are going to be better.  Celtics are already there.

a)  its a black man and Boston - you never know with that

b)  If they dont win - if there is any chemistry rift ..... curtain #3 becomes appealing

c)  If they do win......well,yeah, Kyrie likely takes the victory lap and tries to be the new LeBron in the East (multiple finals, titles)

Brad Stevens - YOU are on the clock, sir.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on August 23, 2018, 12:47:52 PM
all the above very valid plus

d) this guy is a verified "flat-earther" so logic may play absolutely no part in the decision
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2018, 02:54:57 PM
all the above very valid plus

d) this guy is a verified "flat-earther" so logic may play absolutely no part in the decision

He isn't considered a true flat-earther by the orthodoxy.  More of a johnny come lately attention seeker.
Title: Tick Tock...Tick Tock
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2018, 03:53:20 PM
Training Camp Opens September 24th, And Cannot Come A Moment Too Soon. 

Meanwhile, Ludicrous Conjecture Runs Rampant. 

Kyrie Irving & Jimmy Butler To The Knicks?

Some AssHat In The Post Just Took A Photo Of LeBron With Durant And Kawhi, Among Others, And Turned That Into The Lakers New Big Three For 2019-2020.

I Mean, COOL YOUR FUCKING JETS. 

Why Would Durant EVER Leave Golden State?  Seriously. 

Oh, Well. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 23, 2018, 04:51:21 PM
New challenge.
Chance to play with LeBronco.

Durant fits in well with GSW, but he would with LAL as well.
GS is going to have to re-sign Klay next year, and then Dray the year after (while Iggy comes off then).
So it'd also make some sense with GS cap management.

Sure it's not likely, but how many of the past dozen or so all-stars changing teams have been. 
Kawhi bailing on SAS. 
Kyrie ditching LeBJ. 
Hayward not sticking around to be The Man on Utah. 
Griffin traded to DET, after signing a huge contract with LAC.
Butler to MIN.
Chris Paul to HOU.
Etc.

Lotta left-field stuff.
Kawhi heading to LAL wouldn't surprise anyone.
And then perhaps KD gets intrigued.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 23, 2018, 05:10:57 PM
New challenge.
Chance to play with LeBronco.

Durant fits in well with GSW, but he would with LAL as well.
GS is going to have to re-sign Klay next year, and then Dray the year after (while Iggy comes off then).
So it'd also make some sense with GS cap management.

Sure it's not likely, but how many of the past dozen or so all-stars changing teams have been. 
Kawhi bailing on SAS. 
Kyrie ditching LeBJ. 
Hayward not sticking around to be The Man on Utah. 
Griffin traded to DET, after signing a huge contract with LAC.
Butler to MIN.
Chris Paul to HOU.
Etc.

Lotta left-field stuff.
Kawhi heading to LAL wouldn't surprise anyone.
And then perhaps KD gets intrigued.

Kawhi?

Pehaps.

Durant?

Please.  They have established a winning, dominating culture in Golden State, where Kevin got to really be The Man without having to be THE ONLY MAN.  Chemistry counts for something, and he will get much pesos con El Warriors. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2018, 06:40:55 PM
New challenge.
Chance to play with LeBronco.

Durant fits in well with GSW, but he would with LAL as well.
GS is going to have to re-sign Klay next year, and then Dray the year after (while Iggy comes off then).
So it'd also make some sense with GS cap management.

Sure it's not likely, but how many of the past dozen or so all-stars changing teams have been. 
Kawhi bailing on SAS. 
Kyrie ditching LeBJ. 
Hayward not sticking around to be The Man on Utah. 
Griffin traded to DET, after signing a huge contract with LAC.
Butler to MIN.
Chris Paul to HOU.
Etc.

Lotta left-field stuff.
Kawhi heading to LAL wouldn't surprise anyone.
And then perhaps KD gets intrigued.

Don't forget that Draymond, Stephon, and Klay all tell KD they have 3 rings to his measley 2.
Title: Don't underestimate
Post by: Kam on August 23, 2018, 06:41:29 PM
The pettiness and insecurity of NBA players.

ESPECIALLY Kevin "burner accounts" Durant.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on August 23, 2018, 09:45:13 PM
I agree with Bo.  I could see Durant leaving Golden State.  Especially if they lose.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 24, 2018, 02:58:18 AM
I think they hold tight as long as they are still winning chips. If GS takes four or five in a row, it’s not likely we see Durant leave in the middle of that.

To add a Knicks musing, the lineup of Kanter, Vonleh, Knox, Hezonja, and Frank has a lot of mismatch potential. I revisited some Mario video. We may have to play the kid. Vonleh, Knox, Hezonja, Hardaway, and Ntilikina would be a small ball version of that lineup. It could also be fun with Mitchell replacing Vonleh in the small version and Kanter in the bigger lineup I started with.

I’m hoping Fizz finds (and sticks with) groupings that groove.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 24, 2018, 01:03:31 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

CLOSED TIL MID OCTOBER.  PLEASE VISIT AT THAT TIME.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on August 24, 2018, 07:01:54 PM
Brad's on the clock?

Doesn't strike me as a on the clock type guy.

But maybe that's why he puts you in long hours, he wants the time and half.
Title: Chico is bored with all of you
Post by: carlos123 on August 24, 2018, 07:28:34 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

CLOSED TIL MID OCTOBER.  PLEASE VISIT AT THAT TIME.

He's bored with the forum, and it ain't my fault cause he says he has me on ignore.

All of you need to find something more entertaining for him. You know what he likes...

...Jimmer Fredette, Chris Christie, (Em)manuel Mudiay, Jeff Sessions, Lonzo Ball, Ivanka T., Lavar Ball, ...

There are plenty of people he wants to talk about, maybe even his sidekick Mistral. I mean, if you show him the picture below he may engage. But do something people! We can't be without Chico "TIL MID OCTOBER"

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/arthur/images/4/4a/Kid_Carter.png/revision/latest?cb=20120814234635)
Kid Carter the crooning cowboy and his Sidekick Mistral
Title: WTF
Post by: carlos123 on August 24, 2018, 07:36:07 PM
The post by Tarokpl looks funny. I wouldn't touch any of the many links in there just to play it safe. Reported it to Josh in case he thinks it should be deleted.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 24, 2018, 09:59:16 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

CLOSED TIL MID OCTOBER.  PLEASE VISIT AT THAT TIME.

Oh ok you're skipping training camp and preseason?
Title: Re: WTF
Post by: bodiddley on August 25, 2018, 12:37:29 AM
The post by Tarokpl looks funny. I wouldn't touch any of the many links in there just to play it safe. Reported it to Josh in case he thinks it should be deleted.

So you think I should cancel my order of ketoconazole cream and cephalexin?  I thought these would help my shot arc and foot arch . . .

Btw, my possible/likely Jones fracture feels exactly like someone whacked the outer side of my foot with a hammer.  Oddly I barely notice it when playing, but slightly limp around for a day afterwards with some pain.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 06:43:56 AM
We’ve made it to the big time boys!

Makes for choppier threads. I might employ the ignore function to make re-reading the conversation cleaner as this turbulence plays out. If you don’t click the links, it’s hopefully no more than a fart in the wind.

In my previous mullings on the roster I forgot to mention that Burke and Mudiay should get first crack at reserve guard minutes. I have two angles on this; they are the two of our lotto repo crew who we have bird rights to next year and Fizz wants guards who can do both jobs, to differing degrees this is true of Mudiay and Burke. It seems more true of them than it does of Dotson and Lee who I recon weaker point guards than Manny and Trey are shooting guards, even with Mudiay’s shooting percentages.

I think the Princeton Mafia out thunk themselves by not finding a way to get a team option for a year two with Mario (unless they tried and failed, which is actually perfectly ok and diffuses that particular issue). We should have tried the same with Vonleh who has a tiny contract, or even guaranteed him a second year to establish Bird Rights. Maybe even offered Mario 2 at his rate as well on the similar reasoning anticipating the market for two or three years and looking at our time frame. On the other hand, one can be resigned with some cap space and the other less impressive can be offered the bi-annual exception to return and with further progress get locked in down the road. I guess there is some hedge for success, but I would have preferred it to be a stronger hedge in that direction.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 25, 2018, 12:31:53 PM

I think the Princeton Mafia out thunk themselves by not finding a way to get a team option for a year two with Mario (unless they tried and failed, which is actually perfectly ok and diffuses that particular issue). We should have tried the same with Vonleh who has a tiny contract, or even guaranteed him a second year to establish Bird Rights. Maybe even offered Mario 2 at his rate as well on the similar reasoning anticipating the market for two or three years and looking at our time frame. On the other hand, one can be resigned with some cap space and the other less impressive can be offered the bi-annual exception to return and with further progress get locked in down the road. I guess there is some hedge for success, but I would have preferred it to be a stronger hedge in that direction.

All these guys have agents.  They're not stupid.  They know this was a year teams didn't have money and next off-season will be different.  If we were a strong team like Boston or Golden State with many attractive suitors maybe we could flex our muscles and extract a second year option.  As it is we are one of the ugliest chicks in a sadie hawkins dance. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 02:11:25 PM
Very good points, one and all. I also like that none of the new signings will struggle to compete physically with top players at their positions physically. Robinson ‘s weight and strength vs. centers is the biggest question mark in that group in terms of physical profile, but he may be more of a PF in early years at least. 

Talent gathering - check.

Talent retention & development - optimistic, but remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 25, 2018, 08:41:18 PM
Frank pulls out of WCC play. “Getting ready for upcoming NBA season” is the reason given.
Title: Spam
Post by: carlos123 on August 25, 2018, 09:36:02 PM
We’ve made it to the big time boys!

Makes for choppier threads. I might employ the ignore function to make re-reading the conversation cleaner as this turbulence plays out. If you don’t click the links, it’s hopefully no more than a fart in the wind.


Well, it seems you're gonna have to use the ignore function a lot. Josh got rid of the first spammer, but we got 3 more, or maybe the same one with different names. All reported, just not sure it's worth Josh's time and effort to kick them out. Oh well ... Hope they eventually give up and leave us alone.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on August 26, 2018, 09:07:37 AM
Frank pulls out of WCC play. “Getting ready for upcoming NBA season” is the reason given.

This is unwise.  Perfect setting for FN to up his game.  But I guess it may have been embarrassing to not get starter minutes.
Title: Chico is back?
Post by: carlos123 on August 26, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
Frank pulls out of WCC play. “Getting ready for upcoming NBA season” is the reason given.

This is unwise.  Perfect setting for FN to up his game.  But I guess it may have been embarrassing to not get starter minutes.

But is this the real Chico? In this version (triple i) he has only 6 posts. The other version (double i) has 377. Go figure

Now 7 posts even  before he posted again. This chiiico is magic!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 26, 2018, 03:43:07 PM
I’m reading the Frank pass on international play as him feeling great growth in the offseason program and wanting to keep continuity to maximize the benefit of development in the remaining time. Down the line this helps Frank, his Knicks team, and his national team.

He probably got a peep at Lonzo Ball’s latest flex shot and decided moving iron was better use of time than dominating a qualifying tournament.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 26, 2018, 08:32:30 PM
I’m reading the Frank pass on international play as him feeling great growth in the offseason program and wanting to keep continuity to maximize the benefit of development in the remaining time. Down the line this helps Frank, his Knicks team, and his national team.

He probably got a peep at Lonzo Ball’s latest flex shot and decided moving iron was better use of time than dominating a qualifying tournament.

French Frank learned a lot in 2017-2018 and in summer league. 

Fizz made it clear how he wants Ntilikina to evolve his game, but that he does not want to eviscerate Frank's core instincts and personality. 

Frank is a man on a mission, only TWENTY years old, as of July 28. 

New York City regards its teams with very steep expectations, and having experienced the upside and downside of that, Frank unquestionably made the right decision.  Last year, he played for his French team in championship games, paid the price in lost time and injuries. 

New Coach, New Squad, New Teammates, New Expectations. 

The kid [one i] wants to hit the ground running come September 24, and to fulfill the expectations of Coach Fizdale and the fans of New York.  Going overseas at this point in time would be insane.  But of course, our forum contrarian has made his disdain for French Frank plain, so specious notions of dropping out because he might not get starter's minutes, abound.  As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 27, 2018, 09:59:24 AM

Frank learned a lot in 2017-2018 and in summer league. 

Yeah, including how to read a depth chart
Quote

Fizz made it clear how he wants Ntilikina to evolve his game, but that he does not want to eviscerate Frank's core instincts and personality. 

There's a personality?  What is it?
Quote

Last year, he played for his French team in championship games, paid the price in lost time and injuries.

Nah.... he just didnt produce.  Was overbilled, (frank)ly.

Quote


The kid wants to hit the ground running come September 24, and to fulfill the expectations of Coach Fizdale and the fans of New York. 

Yes, of course

Quote
Going overseas at this point in time would be insane. 


The competition wouldnt benefit Frank?  Its actually better for his development than summer league
Quote

But of course, our forum contrarian has made his disdain for French Frank plain

Well, he has not ben good
Quote
  As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime.

I know getting the minutes will be tough for him.  This is what I have contended.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 27, 2018, 11:54:02 AM
Ntilikina still feels like more of a 2 than a 1 to me. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 27, 2018, 01:40:27 PM
Ntilikina still feels like more of a 2 than a 1 to me. And there's nothing wrong with that.

He has more/better true PG instincts than Mudiay or Burke IMO.

If i'm wrong about Frank i'll admit it, but one chaotic season ( Chief Backer in the org who just drafted you is gone, head coach doesn't have the time to develop you as he is on the block next ) where the team signed two veterans in front of you, (one new starter comes into the locker room after just three games), then traded for your putative replacement (who sucks btw) isn't enough time to formulate an opinion that he can't do that job he was drafted to do. No, not ready to predict his future as a non-PG.

Last season was a case study in how to turn a Quarter into three Nickles.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 27, 2018, 01:47:11 PM
As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime.

I know getting the minutes will be tough for him.  This is what I have contended.

If anything, its Burke who is more on an Iverson-ish SG.  Trade Lee and give Burke backup minutes behind former college teammate Hardaway Jr.

Let Frank and Mudiay platoon the PG.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 27, 2018, 01:51:17 PM
A heavy diet of pick up ball with NBA vets, strength & conditioning plus skills work is going to be more helpful to Frank in adjusting his playing style to be optimized for the NBA than international play in Euro style by FIBA rules. Getting time in w players on the team is also very positive and will take some of the hesitation that cost Frank last year out of his game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2018, 02:01:13 PM
A heavy diet of pick up ball with NBA vets, strength & conditioning plus skills work is going to be more helpful to Frank in adjusting his playing style to be optimized for the NBA than international play in Euro style by FIBA rules. Getting time in w players on the team is also very positive and will take some of the hesitation that cost Frank last year out of his game.

That may be the case.

Not so much timorous as overly deferential at times. 

Also, when Frank was paired against the likes of Ball, Smith, Fox, he played well. 
Title: Manu Ginobli
Post by: chipstern on August 27, 2018, 05:51:32 PM
From the #57 pick in the second round to the Hall Of Fame. 

What a great, great competitor. 

No one more respected among his opponents, be it the Euro-Step or just the profile of a winner. 

Thanks for all the luster, sans the bluster. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 27, 2018, 06:19:23 PM
As if starters' minutes will be any easier to come by with Burke, Baker and Mudiay vying for floortime.

I know getting the minutes will be tough for him.  This is what I have contended.

If anything, its Burke who is more on an Iverson-ish SG.  Trade Lee and give Burke backup minutes behind former college teammate Hardaway Jr.

Let Frank and Mudiay platoon the PG.

Certainly one possible way to go - though when Burke was effective last year he was on the ball.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 28, 2018, 01:17:27 PM
Ntilikina still feels like more of a 2 than a 1 to me. And there's nothing wrong with that.

He has more/better true PG instincts than Mudiay or Burke IMO.

If i'm wrong about Frank i'll admit it, but one chaotic season ( Chief Backer in the org who just drafted you is gone, head coach doesn't have the time to develop you as he is on the block next ) where the team signed two veterans in front of you, (one new starter comes into the locker room after just three games), then traded for your putative replacement (who sucks btw) isn't enough time to formulate an opinion that he can't do that job he was drafted to do. No, not ready to predict his future as a non-PG.

Last season was a case study in how to turn a Quarter into three Nickles.

He was drafted to play in the Triangle, not to play point guard.

I don't put too much stock into having to play the position for which you were drafted. Boris Diaw came into the league as a 2 and languished until he became a damn 5. Draymond Green was viewed as a 3, not as history altering 5. Iverson and Penny were drafted as point guards, Shawn Marion as a small forward, even Michael Jordan came into the L with uncertainty over whether he'd be a 1, 2, or a 3 (granted, different era and a tough comparison).

Point being - aside from Diaw, those guys didn't fail at their initial positions. Better fits were discovered.

I think Ntilikina's best position is next to a guard who creates for self and others. Usually, that's a point guard, sometimes it's James Harden or (sniff sniff) Manu Ginobili. For us, it will hopefully be RJ Barrett. But, today, I see Ntilikina looking like his best fit when he's sharing the back-court with Trey Burke. They'll share duties of bringing the ball up or leading fast breaks, but Burke would handle the rock more.

Not discounting that Ntilikina can eventually grow into that. Just feels he can contribute more as a 2 right now. Nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 28, 2018, 01:47:00 PM
Rajon Rondo is a PG who doesn't think me first and create for himself. 

His strength isn't Shooting, it's QB'ing the team.

He's got a ring.

That's the template.

A pocket passing QB.

Neither Rajon nor Frank would fit better at SG than PG.

Most of your best examples were small-ball bigs.

Frank aint that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 28, 2018, 03:34:14 PM
Who said think "me first"? Rondo creates for others.

Ntilikina has not shown that he's anything like Rondo. Wrong template. Rondo had incredible vision and patience, and he was bold when he needed to be. That ain't Frank.

I'd even add that Rondo is more selfish than Frank.

Frank is a George Hill type - a bit more athletic, hopefully, certainly more energetic, and if we're lucky a better spot up shooter. Maybe he develops the off-the-bounce game Hill never did (if he does, watch out). But his game, as far as we've seen, is nothing like Rondo. I think you completely missed my point (for example, I don't think it is relevant that the examples you liked best were small ball bigs, both because I had several guards on the list and because I simply was pointing out that views on fit often change in the early years of a prospect's career).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 28, 2018, 07:39:07 PM
A good take on another aspect of our backcourt situation,

http://theknickswall.com/emmanuel-mudiay-longevity-question-knicks/ (http://theknickswall.com/emmanuel-mudiay-longevity-question-knicks/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 28, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
Fiz taking advance credit for Mudiay's strong season

Lame.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 03:00:59 AM
Come on Kid, the article said Mudiay has a chance to rise as high as 4th guard, behind Hardaway, Burke, and Ntilikina, if he beats out Courtney Lee who may not even stay with the team. If he’s really changed his work ethic and honed his focus, he can achieve more. A Lance Stephenson backcourt bully off the bench role may be what he needs to aim for as a somewhat achievable career goal, rather than starting or star pg.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2018, 03:46:41 AM
Fiz taking advance credit for Mudiay's strong season

Lame.

Speaking of lame, Fizdale did nothing of the sort. 

Just read the article, and of course, you completely misrepresent its conclusions and Fizdale's attempt to build up the kid's confidence and provide a nurturing support system. 

But then, handicapper that you are, seem to have already concluded with Biblical certitude that Ntilikina is a bust and that Mudiay is the putative starter. 

We shall see, won't we. 

I'm with Facil, here, and that for EM's immediate future something akin to an Avery Bradley/Rozier energizer role off the bench might be something to consider.  The highlights of his 24 point first quarter with Denver against the Celtics on their home court was a tantalizing hint at what EM might provide if he gets into a sustainable rhythm.  His inside/outside game was certainly clicking.  And while his offensive confidence was impressive--using his big body in the blocks, moving without the ball, and his jumper clicking off the dribble--what was absent from this particular highlight reel was any sense of command as a facilitator. 

Have to believe that Mudiay will get every opportunity to impress. 

Also, given how crowded the back court is, and projecting Burke, Hardaway, Ntilikina and Mudiay as rotation front runners, where does this leave Dotson, let alone Baker and Trier, not to mention the likely departure of Courtney Lee, who could be a terrific addition to a contender out West.  Hard to see a match or any draft picks or ending contracts coming our way. 

Scott Perry's ability to create a deal for Lee, and get some sort of assets in return, will be a signature move coming into the new season. 

Have to figure, given the glut of two way players in the back court, that Fizdale will relent on his desire to match up with size and length, and go with some three-guard alignments, to find added floor time for Hardaway and Dotson.  Trier looks to spend considerable time in Westchester unless he knocks everyone's socks off in training camp.  Knicks seem to still have some sort of expectation of Baker fulfilling a role, though at this time, it is difficult to discern.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on August 29, 2018, 11:16:20 AM
LOL, if Mudiay has the first strong season of his career, FIZ can have all the credit he wants...

{AND if this site keeps making me do some kind of CAPTCHA VERIFICATION AND TRIVIA QUIZ to allow me to post, before EACH post, I will be posting about once a year)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 02:09:40 PM
I don’t have any issue like that posting, Les.

Let’s hope Fiz can have that effect on a few players.

I’m more concerned with Fiz getting everyone to run hard and to play their best defense.

For Mudiay, that’s actually about 2/3 of what he needs to do to have a career year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 29, 2018, 02:50:47 PM
I don’t have any issue like that posting, Les.

Let’s hope Fiz can have that effect on a few players.

I’m more concerned with Fiz getting everyone to run hard and to play their best defense.

For Mudiay, that’s actually about 2/3 of what he needs to do to have a career year.

Crowded back court. 

Competition for floor time. 

LOTS OF COMPETITION. 

Good for everybody. 

Burke, Ntilikina, Mudiay. 

Underachievers all, battling for the bell cow role, the rudder, not the udder, seeking to raise their game to an NBA level of command and consistency, on both ends of the court. 

Competition?

Good.

Can't wait. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
The trick is going to be turning the competition into cohesion. It doesn’t have to happen right away, since we aren’t reaching any kind of glory this year. That’s going to be the sign for me that things are on the right track.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
Come on Kid, the article said Mudiay has a chance to rise as high as 4th guard, behind Hardaway, Burke, and Ntilikina, if he beats out Courtney Lee who may not even stay with the team. If he’s really changed his work ethic and honed his focus, he can achieve more. A Lance Stephenson backcourt bully off the bench role may be what he needs to aim for as a somewhat achievable career goal, rather than starting or star pg.

Mudiay has done more in the league than all but Lee.

But no - I dont think Lee's status even affects Emmanuel.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 29, 2018, 10:00:07 PM
Let me guess. You see Mudiay, Hardaway, Knox, Kanter, and Hezonja or Thomas as the prime group, with other players like Burke, Lee, etc. filling in the margins. Does that sound about right, based on real competition and what you’ve seen of their career play so far?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 10:15:53 PM
I like one spot open, 4 starters being EM, THJ, EK and KK (leaving room for Fiz possibly bringing Kev off the bench for Mario)

But if Mudiay loses it fair and square, I will be excited to watch whoever earned the spot
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 29, 2018, 10:37:08 PM
https://twitter.com/GerryCallahan/status/1034936455695613955 (https://twitter.com/GerryCallahan/status/1034936455695613955)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on August 30, 2018, 12:40:05 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/walt-frazier-delivers-blunt-take-on-durant-and-carmelo-legacies/ (https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/walt-frazier-delivers-blunt-take-on-durant-and-carmelo-legacies/)

Warriors won without him and won with him.

Clyde's point is old school but valid to me since I'm very old school.

actually maybe just old.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 12:56:22 AM
I like one spot open, 4 starters being EM, THJ, EK and KK (leaving room for Fiz possibly bringing Kev off the bench for Mario)

But if Mudiay loses it fair and square, I will be excited to watch whoever earned the spot

Why not Knox and Mario as forwards together with Kanter and the two guards?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 01:21:04 AM
Mudiay has done more in the league than all but Lee.

Another way of putting it is Franc had an okay, up-and-down rook campaign.

While Burke was a bigger bust than Muddy.  But now Burke has shown a defined skill set and role that Mud hasn't achieved.  Burke looks like a legit jitterbug scoring backup PG.  Though it will be interesting to see if he can sustain efficiency on his often difficult midrange shots.
The Iverson-lite mode isn't an easy thing to pull off.

My concern is Mud has too much to work on/improve to become a legit NBA player.  Cons: shooting, turnovers, focus, finishing, conditioning, defense, consistency.  Pros: has an NBA body, and shows flashes of skills now and then.  Can penetrate, but not pass or finish off of that.  Some passing vision. 

So what to work on?  What to build on?

Maybe if he develops a shot, the game would open up for him.
And perhaps better conditioning would give him the ups (and quicks) to finish inside.  For now he looks like old Melo trying to convert a layup.  Being able to score either in or out, better/credible D, and reduced turnovers and he'd be a guy you can develop ...

Probably an outside shot is key, since you can't really play SG without it, and that might be his future.

Obviously a key year for Mud.  So you'd expect him to be in contract year shape.  And the op is definitely there, if he's readywillingable to seize it.  Will be very interesting to see how Fiz uses Mud, and what the emphasis is on.  All the new faces and reclamations, and ending contracts doesn't make a PG's job easy (even if they were good at it).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 03:16:57 AM
Burke can up his game by adding a reliable 3-point shot.
Though it seems he likes movement/rhythm on his shots, so might not be good at catch and shoot 3's.  And off-the-dribble 3's aren't easy if you aren't a range shooter.
I doubt Burke will ever be a good defender, but adding a 3-point shot would make him very tough to guard.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 03:19:44 AM
Franc has a good deal to work on.
Being more decisive and aggressive.
He can cut down on turnovers by not telegraphing passes or tossing weak east-west passes.
Needs to work on his shot.
But has a good defensive foundation.
But have to hope he's more than Darrell Walker.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Burke ended the season as clearly the most assertive directing traffic and setting things up also getting to the shot he wanted and finishing. Turning himself into a pull up reliably from anywhere guy, especially from deep and very deep would up his value. Fizz has to decide what works with him on D and do the balance.

Fizz is reportedly quite particular about how his players finish inside. If he can lead Mudiay to tame his hitch and harness his explosion, he could put up rookie level numbers on a decent percentages while actually helping the team out there. Being and staying in top shape is the key.

Frank has put in work. He’s going to need minutes and a decent leash to show how much he’s grown and what he can do for the team.

Our wings are even more promising with Knox, Mario, Hardaway, and Lee. I’m more worried about the D than scoring and playmaking from this group.

Lance and Vonleh can both make plays though neither should be leaned on. Lance is a good stretch four for Noah to learn from.

Kornet needs to be nimbler, stronger, and more intense.

Kanter can reprise last season or, if he wants to improve his FA position, he could elevate his D, especially his help D and work in space.

Kanter, Kornet, and Vonleh in camp can let us know what sort of positional D Mitchell can provide. He made his help potential evident in Summer League, along with rolling and cleaning up. Can he rebound against Vonleh and Kanter? When any of these guys are in tandems, who does what effectively?


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 30, 2018, 11:10:16 AM
Kanter can reprise last season or, if he wants to improve his FA position, he could elevate his D, especially his help D and work in space.

I don't know what role Fiz envisages for Kanter, nor if Kanter will ever be able to move quick enough or get low enough to be a neutral (let alone plus) defender. But I do know he looks absolutely shredded and that he will show up at camp ready to score better and more efficiently than anyone else on the team. Kanter is going to put up numbers this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Knix play MIA in London, and likely Kanter can't risk going.
Turkey revoked his passport and have warrant out for his arrest.
He has a US green card, but is essentially stateless until he can qualify for a US passport in 3 years or so.  Not sure what travel docs he would have and can't risk an Interpol warrant awaiting him, and court hassles and such.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:48:23 AM
Burke ended the season as clearly the most assertive directing traffic and setting things up also getting to the shot he wanted and finishing. Turning himself into a pull up reliably from anywhere guy,

So do you start Burke because he is the furthest along?  or do you slot him in as the backup PG which is where he projects when the Knix have a genuine team?  And try to develop Mud and/or Franc as the starting PG? 

I'd go the latter route.
I'd choose Franc since he's young, more malleable and we need defense among the starters (Hardaway/Kanter/probably rook Knox).

But another option is go with Mud since this is his last year to prove out.  And Franc is a better off guard option, so can fill both roles.
Give Mud every op to be a legit starting PG, allow him to work through mistakes.  Go with it for half the season.  And then when KZ is coming back, evaluate if Mud has developed enough to remain the starter, or if it's Franc's turn.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 12:28:53 PM
Clyde:  "I grade (Durant) down......"

Sure - why wouldn't you?

But soon, with all the talent surrounding LBJ, Frazier will need to knock James down a notch as well - unless - unlike what has been reported - LBJ still domninates the rock and runs the show as he did in CLE
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
If Burke still seems furthest along in camp of the pgs, then the question is do Frank or EM seem like they are making progress and that one will ultimately get there. If so start the kid and run Burke as super sub. If the coaches don’t have confidence that Frank and EM have or will shortly turn the corner, then I think you start Burke so everyone else we are trying to develop can have the benefit of a competent pg. I Frankly expect Frankie to show enough growth to win the starting spot. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 01:49:56 PM
David West retires.
Nice career.
Tough guy.
Wrenched out Melo's shoulder one time.
Good mid-range J.

I remember the late part of that (LBJ/Melo/Wade/Bosh) draft.
After a mid-round run of Guards, there were 3 PF's said to be intriguing:  David West, Brian Cook and Mario Austin.
Supposedly NO was choosing between them.

West went #18, Cook 23, Austin dropped to 37.
West made a couple all-star teams, became a leader, and very solid on both ends.  Cook had a decent career but no standout skill.  Kind of West-lite, with an acceptable midrange J and okay boarding.  Austin had a weird go of it.  Somehow wound up with a collapsed lung and next thing was playing in Russia.  Never stepped on an NBA court.

Not being a draft guy or college follower I had no idea which of the 3 was best.  Not sure why that sticks in my head from 15 years back, except that I wanted to keep an eye on how it panned out.  Fairly big difference in outcomes.  The draft got it right. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 02:09:44 PM
Btw, that 2003 draft had some weirdness to it.
Darko taken #3.  Guy had a great physique and not much character.
Collected a paycheck for 10 years (just 463 games) totaling $52M.
Believe it or not, but Darko just turned 33 this Summer.

Jarvis Hayes #10 pick was said to be similar to Wade (#5 pick)
Troy Bell #16 pick had a 34 minute career.
Knick fans were excited somehow we got both Sweetney (#9 pick) and Magic Lampe (#31).  And somehow they both stunk.

Minny had a pick reinstated after being barred from the draft the previous 3 years due to the illegal Joe Smith signing.  So they drafted a skinny high school kid Ndubi Ebi (86 minute career) #26.  The next 3 players drafted all had 10+ year careers.

Speaking of, the 2nd round had 9 players who played 10 or more years.
Possibly a record.  Korver (and Zaza?) still going.
And 11 who never played in the NBA.
Plus 3 more who had a 2 game or less Nba career (including Knick 2nd rounder Slavko Vranes.  7'5" and a 3 minute career).

Very interesting draft.  One of my faves.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 03:43:45 PM
Burke ended the season as clearly the most assertive directing traffic and setting things up also getting to the shot he wanted and finishing. Turning himself into a pull up reliably from anywhere guy,

So do you start Burke because he is the furthest along?  or do you slot him in as the backup PG which is where he projects when the Knix have a genuine team?  And try to develop Mud and/or Franc as the starting PG? 

I'd go the latter route.
I'd choose Franc since he's young, more malleable and we need defense among the starters (Hardaway/Kanter/probably rook Knox).

But another option is go with Mud since this is his last year to prove out.  And Franc is a better off guard option, so can fill both roles.
Give Mud every op to be a legit starting PG, allow him to work through mistakes.  Go with it for half the season.  And then when KZ is coming back, evaluate if Mud has developed enough to remain the starter, or if it's Franc's turn.

I think the only negative is that you have to spend cap cash next year to keep EM.

If you "develop" Frank, that's the cheap route.

(I put develop in parentheses because I dont believe in the word being used interchangeably with PLAY. Development could certainly be achieved in a bench - or even G League - role))
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 04:01:15 PM
Slavko Vranes

5th tallest to play in the NBA

STILL playing professionally.

3 time Adriatic Legue champ
3-time Serbian League champ
Montenegran League champion
Euro Cup winner in 2011
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on August 30, 2018, 04:30:20 PM
Btw, that 2003 draft had some weirdness to it.
Darko taken #3.  Guy had a great physique and not much character.
Collected a paycheck for 10 years (just 463 games) totaling $52M.
Believe it or not, but Darko just turned 33 this Summer.

Jarvis Hayes #10 pick was said to be similar to Wade (#5 pick)
Troy Bell #16 pick had a 34 minute career.
Knick fans were excited somehow we got both Sweetney (#9 pick) and Magic Lampe (#31).  And somehow they both stunk.

Minny had a pick reinstated after being barred from the draft the previous 3 years due to the illegal Joe Smith signing.  So they drafted a skinny high school kid Ndubi Ebi (86 minute career) #26.  The next 3 players drafted all had 10+ year careers.

Speaking of, the 2nd round had 9 players who played 10 or more years.
Possibly a record.  Korver (and Zaza?) still going.
And 11 who never played in the NBA.
Plus 3 more who had a 2 game or less Nba career (including Knick 2nd rounder Slavko Vranes.  7'5" and a 3 minute career).

Very interesting draft.  One of my faves.

Lampe had a solid Euro Career. 

I remember that Dick Vitale was aghast that the Knicks passed on Nick Collison to take Michael Sweetney. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on August 30, 2018, 06:11:03 PM
Is anyone ready to label Frankie a bust and think the knix should move-on, limited offensive skills and not good at defending the three? Right now I keep Burke and EM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 08:01:22 PM
There's room for all 3, Luee.

No.  Of course no such labels just yet.

I think 4 years is fair for the league to judge - though a player's first team might move on sooner.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 30, 2018, 10:18:27 PM
"I understand how deep our team is," Tatum said. "I just care about winning and doing what I can while I’m on the floor." He said he's "definitely gotten a lot stronger" this offseason, but the Celtics might still be leery of starting their prized 20-year-old at PF out of the gates. With Gordon Hayward healthy and Marcus Morris as the incumbent starter at PF, it's conceivable that Tatum will fill a sixth-man role -- at least initially. Regardless, Boston will find ways to get him 30+ minutes per game.


I dont see it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 30, 2018, 11:26:04 PM
No, but 25 mpg is doable.


Link to the 2003 draft.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2003.html

Collison ended up with shoulder problems which pushed him to the bench and more into a limited role, iirc.

I saw Lampe last year in China in a close game, and he was fairly lazy on both ends.  He was The Man and bombed in some clutch 3's, but also failed to box out so that his man got a late rebound and layup, failed to run the floor and his man got an early offense layup.  I have no idea the context of his time in China, and assume he played harder in Euroland (pretty sure he was in Russia for some years).  What I saw, he showed a good deal of skills, but also bad habits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 30, 2018, 11:38:49 PM
The Magic Lampe. I had some hopes. Glad he’s doing ok.

Tatum could easily get 30 minutes platooning with Hayward and Brown. I don’t think any of those three have a real leg up for minutes compared to the other two. I expect Hayward to be babied along somewhat, at least to the All Star break.

We’re putting Knox, Mario, Hardaway, and Thomas up against those guys. It could get rough.

Does Kanter get to bang with Baynes or does Al send him to the bench with nimble outside play?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:37:35 AM
Quote
The Houston Rockets traded Ryan Anderson and De'Anthony Melton to the Phoenix Suns for Marquese Chriss and Brandon Knight, league sources tell ESPN.

HOU needed a backup PG since CP3 misses some games.
Knight is expensive but not as much as RyAnderson.
Chriss can rebound and run the floor, but doesn't really have a game yet.  Raw.
Looks like HOU saves a few $M as well.

Not earth-shaking but looks like a very solid Ryno dump for HOU.
Adds a backup PG, gets to test drive a young pogo stick PF, save some money.

Not sure I see much point for PHX.
Do they even have a PG now?
(not much point, get it?)
Maybe it's to make up for the year when they had 3.
Ayton and Josh Jackson aren't going to do much without a PG.

I would've traded them Muddy for Chriss (I think).
I'd go with Marquese's bounciness over Vonleh's no offense.
On 2nd thought probably better to have Mud and Vonleh than Chriss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 31, 2018, 01:54:27 AM
I’m with you there on the second thought.

Houston catches a break. Knight and Chriss will be good depth pieces for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 31, 2018, 05:07:54 AM
Knix play MIA in London, and likely Kanter can't risk going.
Turkey revoked his passport and have warrant out for his arrest.
He has a US green card, but is essentially stateless until he can qualify for a US passport in 3 years or so.  Not sure what travel docs he would have and can't risk an Interpol warrant awaiting him, and court hassles and such.

Can he go to Toronto?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on August 31, 2018, 05:17:58 AM
I think it would depend on which dictators trump was trying to kiss up to that week.

September is right around the corner. JoNo might find himself free of contractual obligations any day now...

We’re not trading Lee to OKC for Singler and Arbines. Singler just got stretched. He’s off their books and out in the wilderness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 05:33:52 AM
I saw last week that OKC saves something like $23M this year (mostly lux tax) by waiving Singler.  And I thought, " Okay, he's gone."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
Quote
The Houston Rockets traded Ryan Anderson and De'Anthony Melton to the Phoenix Suns for Marquese Chriss and Brandon Knight, league sources tell ESPN.

HOU needed a backup PG since CP3 misses some games.
Knight is expensive but not as much as RyAnderson.
Chriss can rebound and run the floor, but doesn't really have a game yet.  Raw.
Looks like HOU saves a few $M as well.

Not earth-shaking but looks like a very solid Ryno dump for HOU.
Adds a backup PG, gets to test drive a young pogo stick PF, save some money.

Not sure I see much point for PHX.
Do they even have a PG now?
(not much point, get it?)
Maybe it's to make up for the year when they had 3.
Ayton and Josh Jackson aren't going to do much without a PG.

I would've traded them Muddy for Chriss (I think).
I'd go with Marquese's bounciness over Vonleh's no offense.
On 2nd thought probably better to have Mud and Vonleh than Chriss.

Meet Elie Okobo

http://www.fiba.basketball/europecup/16-17/news/pau-lacq-orthez-youngster-okobo-turning-heads-in-the-fiba-europe-cup (http://www.fiba.basketball/europecup/16-17/news/pau-lacq-orthez-youngster-okobo-turning-heads-in-the-fiba-europe-cup)

I think we got the wrong frog.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 09:31:13 AM
Gonna get me a Suns hat, I think.

Thinking they may make me some bucks this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on August 31, 2018, 09:53:35 AM
It would be an accomplishment for the Suns to finish higher than 14th in the conference.
Title: Cracker Barrell
Post by: chipstern on August 31, 2018, 11:30:18 AM
Frog, huh. 

Just when it seems that you have bottomed out you reach a new low. 

Go fuck yourself...

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:22:23 PM
Meet Elie Okobo
I think we got the wrong frog.

Even the article you linked to says he's a combo guard learning the PG position (because he's 6'2").

He was the #31 pick.
Which tells you something.

NBADraftNet:
Quote
Overall: Elie Okobo is  :-\. His ability to score in every way possible (Pull-up, Catch and Shot, Spot up, Drive) along with his court vision, above average athleticism and defensive potential make him really intriguing. If he manages to play with the same motor all the time and become a point guard he could be a really good player in the future.

Quote
Weaknesses: He is not overly explosive ... He doesn't always play with the same aggressiveness ... Does not concentrate as he should at all times ... Has a lot of ups and downs, even within a game ... He is still learning the point guard position because he began his career as an off guard ... Gets sped up and plays too fast at times ... Has problems reading the game ...Turnover prone, his assist/turnover ratio could improve ... He must learn to take over a game when he has to ... He can be a streaky shooter ... He occasionally shows a little hesitation before shooting off the dribble which causes him to lose a split second and allows his opponent to contest his shot ... He can fall in love with his shot and not attack the basket as much as he should ... He settles for a 3-point more times than he should after a big is switched on him ... Shot selection is a question mark because he has the tendency to take contested shots ... Can be impatient when he hasn't taken a shot for a while ... He doen't always drive hard to the basket and go all the way into the paint ... When he attacks the basket he looks too willing to pass rather than finish the play, which leads to turnovers ... Has problems finishing at the rim through contact and in traffic ... Has the habit of telegraphing passes and trying to pass from tough angles ... He should learn to look for the simple play rather than the flashy one ... He must mix it up more on offense and find the balance between his favorite move (step back) and driving to the basket, maybe adding some floaters to his game ... He doesn't go to the free throw line as much as you would expect for a player with his athleticism and talent ... His Pick and Roll game still needs improving, since he has the tendency to look for a shooter rather than the rolling big ... He doesn't always has a low stance on defense, depending too much on his physical tools ... He is having some problems defending the Pick and Roll, looking lost at times ... He stands away from his opponent when he is defending the weak side, something that leads to either a free shot or a rushed and wrong close out by him, which adds pressure to his team ... He might be more than willing to help coming from the weakside, but there are moments when he just freezes and watches a play happen ...

Sounds a fair amount like Franc, except this guy is a scorer and Franc a defender.  But a good deal of the same flaws. (as bolded).
Franc has better size, so more able to play SG or be a genuine combo G.  Okobo at 6'2" needs to become a PG or his career won't go anywhere.

NBADraftnet comparison is Roddy Beaubois who I was kind of high on early.  Super quick and kind of fearless, but not a great shot.  then injuries added up and he never cut down on turnovers, and size limited him when he wasn't able to become a legit NBA PG.

Here's the link if you want to read all the positives on Okobo:
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/elie-okobo

But you don't want to have a 2nd round rook run your team.
Recipe for disaster.
Title: Re: Cracker Barrell
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:47:40 PM
Frog, huh. 

Just when it seems that you have bottomed out you reach a new low. 

Go fuck yourself...

Possibly the most likely cause of the term relates to heraldry and here there are two lines of thought. One relates to King Clovis who had three frogs or toads on his heraldic shield and flag, at least he did until he converted to Christianity when he adopted the Fleur-de-lis.

Now as I mentioned earlier, King Clovis converted to Christianity and as part of this the frogs/toads were given the elbow and the Fleurs de Lis was adopted. The French flag then had a blue background with gold fleur-de-lys on it. The ignorant English, not knowing that the fleur-de-lys was supposed to be a flower, though that it represented a gold frog. Hence “frog” became a derogatory term for the French.


meh - you'll live
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 12:51:00 PM
Quote
With the loss of Knight, the Suns plan to continue pursuing a trade for a starting-level point guard before the regular season.

Sounds about right . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:51:46 PM
Meet Elie Okobo
I think we got the wrong frog.

Even the article you linked to says he's a combo guard learning the PG position (because he's 6'2").

He was the #31 pick.
Which tells you something.

NBADraftNet:
Quote
Overall: Elie Okobo is  :-\. His ability to score in every way possible (Pull-up, Catch and Shot, Spot up, Drive) along with his court vision, above average athleticism and defensive potential make him really intriguing. If he manages to play with the same motor all the time and become a point guard he could be a really good player in the future.

Quote
Weaknesses: He is not overly explosive ... He doesn't always play with the same aggressiveness ... Does not concentrate as he should at all times ... Has a lot of ups and downs, even within a game ... He is still learning the point guard position because he began his career as an off guard ... Gets sped up and plays too fast at times ... Has problems reading the game ...Turnover prone, his assist/turnover ratio could improve ... He must learn to take over a game when he has to ... He can be a streaky shooter ... He occasionally shows a little hesitation before shooting off the dribble which causes him to lose a split second and allows his opponent to contest his shot ... He can fall in love with his shot and not attack the basket as much as he should ... He settles for a 3-point more times than he should after a big is switched on him ... Shot selection is a question mark because he has the tendency to take contested shots ... Can be impatient when he hasn't taken a shot for a while ... He doen't always drive hard to the basket and go all the way into the paint ... When he attacks the basket he looks too willing to pass rather than finish the play, which leads to turnovers ... Has problems finishing at the rim through contact and in traffic ... Has the habit of telegraphing passes and trying to pass from tough angles ... He should learn to look for the simple play rather than the flashy one ... He must mix it up more on offense and find the balance between his favorite move (step back) and driving to the basket, maybe adding some floaters to his game ... He doesn't go to the free throw line as much as you would expect for a player with his athleticism and talent ... His Pick and Roll game still needs improving, since he has the tendency to look for a shooter rather than the rolling big ... He doesn't always has a low stance on defense, depending too much on his physical tools ... He is having some problems defending the Pick and Roll, looking lost at times ... He stands away from his opponent when he is defending the weak side, something that leads to either a free shot or a rushed and wrong close out by him, which adds pressure to his team ... He might be more than willing to help coming from the weakside, but there are moments when he just freezes and watches a play happen ...

Sounds a fair amount like Franc, except this guy is a scorer and Franc a defender.  But a good deal of the same flaws. (as bolded).
Franc has better size, so more able to play SG or be a genuine combo G.  Okobo at 6'2" needs to become a PG or his career won't go anywhere.

NBADraftnet comparison is Roddy Beaubois who I was kind of high on early.  Super quick and kind of fearless, but not a great shot.  then injuries added up and he never cut down on turnovers, and size limited him when he wasn't able to become a legit NBA PG.

Here's the link if you want to read all the positives on Okobo:
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/elie-okobo

But you don't want to have a 2nd round rook run your team.
Recipe for disaster.

Thank you, YOUR THOROGHNESS

Canaan is the starter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 12:56:00 PM
I am sure - by the way - you dont mean Ntilikina is better because he is taller or because he was the #8 pick.

You are smarter than that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 01:07:40 PM


Canaan is the starter

.......or maybe a Jarret Jack.....

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 01:27:05 PM
from summer league play

Okobo is a true point guard, perhaps forgotten in today’s Steph Curry era of play. He’s effective in ways past the scoring column. He proved that he can run an offense, and he looked like he enjoyed doing so.

For a rookie, Okobo seemed confident in his game. He was vocal and commanding, and his aggressiveness on offense paired with his style of play in reminiscent of another French point guard (Tony Parker, not Frank Ntilikina).

Kokoskov has a history of developing quality point guards, and it’ll be exciting to see what he’s able to do with Elie Okobo. The young Frenchman plays much older than his age of 20.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 01:44:57 PM
I am sure - by the way - you dont mean Ntilikina is better because he is taller or because he was the #8 pick.

You are smarter than that.

Height = more able to play SG and more able to be a legit combo guard.  [important since there are doubts about both of them as PG's]

#8 pick v. #31 pick = better prospect.

Pretty self-explanatory really.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 31, 2018, 01:58:14 PM
Kanter can reprise last season or, if he wants to improve his FA position, he could elevate his D, especially his help D and work in space.

I don't know what role Fiz envisages for Kanter, nor if Kanter will ever be able to move quick enough or get low enough to be a neutral (let alone plus) defender. But I do know he looks absolutely shredded and that he will show up at camp ready to score better and more efficiently than anyone else on the team. Kanter is going to put up numbers this year.

I agree with this take.  And I liked Bo's comparison to David Lee.  They're not the same, but their net result is.  Good-to-Great on offense.  Worth mentioning (negatively) for their defense.  Good locker room guys.  Team leaders in their own ways.

With regards to Chipstern, i am open to the notion of him returning beyond this season.  But the number I have in mind might be deemed "insulting"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 31, 2018, 02:05:25 PM

Believe it or not, but Darko just turned 33 this Summer.


Will they take a #1 pick for him?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on August 31, 2018, 02:15:53 PM
Quote
The Houston Rockets traded Ryan Anderson and De'Anthony Melton to the Phoenix Suns for Marquese Chriss and Brandon Knight, league sources tell ESPN.

HOU needed a backup PG since CP3 misses some games.
Knight is expensive but not as much as RyAnderson.
Chriss can rebound and run the floor, but doesn't really have a game yet.  Raw.
Looks like HOU saves a few $M as well.

Not earth-shaking but looks like a very solid Ryno dump for HOU.
Adds a backup PG, gets to test drive a young pogo stick PF, save some money.

Not sure I see much point for PHX.
Do they even have a PG now?
(not much point, get it?)
Maybe it's to make up for the year when they had 3.
Ayton and Josh Jackson aren't going to do much without a PG.

I would've traded them Muddy for Chriss (I think).
I'd go with Marquese's bounciness over Vonleh's no offense.
On 2nd thought probably better to have Mud and Vonleh than Chriss.

Melton was terrific in Summer League from what i remember.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 02:38:16 PM
Canaan is the starter

Canaan is almost 6 feet tall with a career 37% FG.
Marginal bench journeyman.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on August 31, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
I am sure - by the way - you dont mean Ntilikina is better because he is taller or because he was the #8 pick.

You are smarter than that.

Height = more able to play SG and more able to be a legit combo guard.  [important since there are doubts about both of them as PG's]



I dont doubt Okobo is a point
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on August 31, 2018, 03:02:12 PM
Mud too . . .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 05:01:16 PM
What about him?

Yes, he's certainly a PG.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 01, 2018, 06:25:03 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2018, 06:49:03 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.

Lots of interesting narratives at play. 

Not the least of which is COMPETITION at every position. 

PARTICULARLY at the point.  Feeling good about Burke, Ntilikina and Mudiay. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 07:53:32 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.

You really should stop putting them in the same boat.  Frank is on a lower rung of the ladder.  It will be so evident this year as Mudiay continues to blossom
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 01, 2018, 08:43:06 PM
I’d love strong guard play to become a signature of our team. That means Mudiay and Frank need to develop, and Burke needs to maintain in the face of raised expectations and defensive focus.

A lot depends on Robinson and Vonleh picking up different defensive assignments and finding offensive roles that let them prosper.

I’m least concerned about our wings for a change heading into a season.

You really should stop putting them in the same boat.  Frank is on a lower rung of the ladder.  It will be so evident this year as Mudiay continues to blossom

More drive by shootings masquerading as analysis from our PooBah of personal Prejudice, the same handicapper, one hastens to add, who had Sebastian Telfair and Jimmer Freddette singled out for greatness. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 01, 2018, 10:53:49 PM
I really didn't
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 01, 2018, 11:29:53 PM
Frank Ntilikina = a young Tom Brady
Kevin Knox = Randy Moss
Porzingis = Gronkowski (of course)
Hardaway Jr. = Dion Lewis

And we should win 12-14 games easy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on September 02, 2018, 12:03:50 AM
Knix get a chance to see and evaluate the youths and get rid of some of the anchorage uncle Phil brought in.
Title: Chiiico
Post by: carlos123 on September 02, 2018, 12:33:18 AM
I really didn't

Triple-i chiiico is definitely weirder than Double-i chiico.

Both are equally entertaining.

Now that El Trumpo made clear he’s gonna fire (via Twitter of course) Mr. Sessions in November, I think either of the chiiicos should be his next AG, he couldn’t be much worse. But remember, one of them chiicos is Mexican. What is one to do?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 02:52:34 AM
So Phoenix is reportedly on the hunt for a PG. Here is a way they could get one that would be beneficial to both teams. It works under the salary cap and fits with the idea that they need a pg badly now (though with Knight, the May have needed one badly before) and that they are acquiring vets for a playoff push.

Trey Burke and Courtney Lee for Daryl Aurthur and Mikal Bridges.

It gives them the services and bird rights for Burke along with Lee, another valuable 3&D vet to add to the vet group of Chandler, Ryno, and Ariza giving them a wing rotation of Ariza, Booker, Jackson, and Lee. Arthur wasn’t going to see time behind Ryno and TJ Warren so that’s no loss. The real cost is Mikal who was the fourth man in a group that needs a steady contributor more than another emerging talent.

Since we’re waiving JoNo anyway, we’ll wind up with

Kanter Robinson Kornet
Vonleh Aurthur  KP
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Hardaway Bridges Dotson
Frank Mudiay Baker

Kadeem Allen and Alonzo Trier remain on deck if Fizz wants more of a spark plug attacking guard.

It would be essentially leveraging Trey Burke to turn Courtney Lee into Mikal Bridges. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 03, 2018, 11:04:35 AM
Well, That's never happening.
If PHX somehow loved TB, we'd be lucky to extract TJ Warren.
Don't forget, Burke was on the scrap heap a year ago, and still only projects as a dangerous scoring backup PG, if he can replicate high efficiency on tough midrange J's.

But Burke is not really an orchestrator and is ball dominant.  Would be terrible next to Booker.  Both like to handle, get their own shot and are defenseless.  They are not giving up a late lottery pick for a shrimpy backup PG who would give them the worst defensive backcourt.  I like when people look for creative trades, but that seems awfully one-sided for NYK.

One interesting option for PHX is Pa Bev.
He's a defensive menace, can hit open 3's (a 3&D PG), and can run the offense enough, while allowing DevBook to do much of the playmaking.  Pa Bev is also one of 3 PG's LAC has.  Shai and Teodesic can fill the PG position.   So they don't really need an aging and ending PaBev. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 11:18:09 AM
So Phoenix is reportedly on the hunt for a PG. Here is a way they could get one that would be beneficial to both teams. It works under the salary cap and fits with the idea that they need a pg badly now (though with Knight, the May have needed one badly before) and that they are acquiring vets for a playoff push.

Trey Burke and Courtney Lee for Daryl Aurthur and Mikal Bridges.

It gives them the services and bird rights for Burke along with Lee, another valuable 3&D vet to add to the vet group of Chandler, Ryno, and Ariza giving them a wing rotation of Ariza, Booker, Jackson, and Lee. Arthur wasn’t going to see time behind Ryno and TJ Warren so that’s no loss. The real cost is Mikal who was the fourth man in a group that needs a steady contributor more than another emerging talent.

Since we’re waiving JoNo anyway, we’ll wind up with

Kanter Robinson Kornet
Vonleh Aurthur  KP
Knox Hezonja Thomas
Hardaway Bridges Dotson
Frank Mudiay Baker

Kadeem Allen and Alonzo Trier remain on deck if Fizz wants more of a spark plug attacking guard.

It would be essentially leveraging Trey Burke to turn Courtney Lee into Mikal Bridges.

When they say they want a PG they probably dont mean a Trey Burke

They just let Elfrid Payton go.

I think there are stronger teams that have a third PG that Suns might pry away - OR ......as I said - Jarret Jack, Ramon Sessions, Jameer Nelson route.  Tyler Ennis also rexently made available.

Too bad they missed on Calderon.  He was perfect as a leader but maybe not for how they want to play
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
I’m curious to see what Phoenix ultimately gets and what they give up for it. They may go the UFA route if they can’t deal for a player they like more.

I’m ok going into camp with what we’ve got and then going into the season with the best of that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
I think Okobo can be their starter at some point this year.  And Canaan is underrated.  Nelson makes sense, if he wants it.

Does anyone have Ty Lawson yet?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 03, 2018, 03:03:36 PM
I didn’t see anything about Lawson, but Jack, Sessions, and Nelson are all still available.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 03, 2018, 05:42:16 PM
Given the Serbian connection (Kokoskov), I could see: Milos Teodosic & Boban Marjanovic for Tyson Chandler & Richaun Holmes & Phoenix's next available second rounder.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 06:42:49 PM
Kind of like the new look Clips

But I think Marjanovic is better than Chandler at this point.
Title: No News is News
Post by: Kam on September 03, 2018, 09:43:51 PM
We were supposedly waiving Joakim Noah on Sept 1...
Title: Re: No News is News
Post by: chipstern on September 03, 2018, 09:57:41 PM
We were supposedly waiving Joakim Noah on Sept 1...

Hmmmmmmmm....

Would still rather keep him, as remote a possibility though that might be.  Why gift him to the T-Wolves when he could help mentor our bigs, and inculcate a defensive mindset? 

Courtly still a Knick as well. 

We shall see what happens after Labor Day.  Training camp breaks on September 24. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 03, 2018, 10:30:14 PM
Distinction was between pre 9/1 and post 9/1

EXACTLY on 9/1 is not an issue.
Title: Philosophy
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2018, 01:06:03 AM
Distinction was between pre 9/1 and post 9/1

EXACTLY on 9/1 is not an issue.

Deep AND Profound.

EXACTLY on 9/3.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 04, 2018, 10:42:26 AM
You guys keep putting Robinson on the 12/15.  I am telling you - he will be G League when we tip in October.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2018, 10:42:38 AM
Financially we could cut him in early 2019 and it wouldn't make a difference to the tax/cap/apron from cutting him yesterday.

SO the question must be asked... why is he still on the roster?

So far one explanation is to make training camp more competitive.... since if we open up the roster spot before camp maybe nobody feels the urgency to compete.

That's the best explanation so far.  Open to other theories.


And i find that explanation unsatisfying.  What if he injures someone during camp?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2018, 12:55:52 PM
The flip side of that is what if one or more of our ambulatory bigs gets hurt. Then we may want to keep and play Noah, at least to start the year.

If we’re not trying to add someone, there is no urgency to cut Noah before camp.

Robinson may see plenty of GLeague time, but it will come as he holds his roster spot similar to Dotson last year. His rim protection, rim running, and finishing will keep him on the 12 man group and get him on the floor as early and often as possible.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2018, 01:42:19 PM
Apparently the FO thinks Noah can be bought out at a lesser # and wants to negotiate with Noah's camp if they want out to Minny.

I don't see the upside in this gambit.   We MAYBE save a million bucks against the cap?

The good will of setting him free is worth more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 04, 2018, 02:16:11 PM
Deng let LAL off $7M or so.

No rush with Noah.
If he wants to meet up with Rose, Butler, Deng(?) and Thibs, he can take a small haircut.

He's getting around $50M for not playing for NYK (inc last year).
Why not try to claw $5M back?
Goodwill among players/agents is mostly bs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 04, 2018, 03:35:22 PM
Deng let LAL off $7M or so.

No rush with Noah.
If he wants to meet up with Rose, Butler, Deng(?) and Thibs, he can take a small haircut.

He's getting around $50M for not playing for NYK (inc last year).
Why not try to claw $5M back?
Goodwill among players/agents is mostly bs.

5 mil across 3 years is at best a 1.67 mil cap savings.

I've never heard of anyone giving the Knicks back their money.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 04, 2018, 03:46:39 PM
If Noah comes to camp more ready to play a role than Kanter, Vonleh, or Kornet, he may win that roster spot. He’s had a couple of years to get healthy and retune his body. It seems he’s fazing out his tornado for an actual jumper. There’s no reason not to see what he’s got in comparison to the other bigs under contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2018, 04:32:28 PM
If Noah comes to camp more ready to play a role than Kanter, Vonleh, or Kornet, he may win that roster spot. He’s had a couple of years to get healthy and retune his body. It seems he’s fazing out his tornado for an actual jumper. There’s no reason not to see what he’s got in comparison to the other bigs under contract.

I don't think Noah will come to camp MORE READY than Kanter or Robinson. 

[Vonleh projected as a PF...do you see him as O'Quinn Lite?  Kornet likely also projected as a stretch 4/hybrid 5]

Again, I am on record as believing we should keep Noah and allow him to compete and to get rotation minutes behind Kanter, and to help compete every day against Enes, and to help mentor Kornet, Robinson and Vonleh. 

I thought Hornacek really blew it big time last season in his treatment of Noah, and don't blame the big guy for freaking on him.  Look at all the minutes Jeff gave to Jack in lieu of tossing Ntilikina into the deep end of the pool.  Made a certain amount of sense, before we got Burke and Mudiay into the mix. 

Noah's contract is old news, over and done with.  We do not have to expunge every move Phil Jackson made: Porzingis, Ntilikina, Lee, Noah.  I doubt Knicks management is going to see it my way, but I fail to see the rationale in dispensing with Lee or Noah for a handful of magic beans or some illusory cap space.  Particularly, as Facil points out, when Noah is probably in the best shape he's been in since we signed him, and has something to contribute to this franchise going forward. 

Likewise, I don't like the idea of simply gifting him to the T-Wolves. 

My two cents, undervalued as it might be. 
Title: Noah
Post by: carlos123 on September 04, 2018, 10:04:41 PM
Make it 3 cents.

Keep Noah and Lee, unless we get something tempting in return.

Especially with Noah, why pay him to play with Minny? doesn't make any sense to me.
Title: Re: Noah
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2018, 10:56:17 PM
Make it 3 cents.

Keep Noah and Lee, unless we get something tempting in return.

Especially with Noah, why pay him to play with Minny? doesn't make any sense to me.

SO?

C: Kanter, Noah

PF-C: Porzingis, Kornet, Robinson, Vonleh, [Hicks]

SF-PF: Thomas, Knox, Herzonja

SG-SF: Hardaway, Lee, Dotson [Trier] [Allen]

PG-SG: Ntlilikna, Mudiay, Burke [Baker]

Hicks, Trier and Allen are G-League Bound. 

Noah, Lee and Baker are on the bubble. 

Depends on whether or not Perry is looking to deal or stretch Noah, Lee and/or Baker. 

Kiid sees Robinson as a lock to be on Westchester. 

Hmmmm...I doubt it. 
Title: Mindaugas Kuzminskas ???
Post by: chipstern on September 04, 2018, 10:57:32 PM
Signed with Milano in January, 2018. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 05, 2018, 01:15:58 PM
Don't put Noah in your player rotations just yet.

Looks like we have decided to dick with Noah and just cuz we still paying him, don't mean we playin him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 02:31:03 PM
Seems we got ourselves a STAR.

Knox signs with Puma.

How long before KK clashes with KP?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 04:14:56 PM
Seems we got ourselves a STAR.

Knox signs with Puma.

How long before KK clashes with KP?

Blow it out your ass. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 04:18:14 PM
Fiz wants KK to be the lead dog - sort of like Carmelo.

KP gonna just be cool with this?
Title: WTF?
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 05:34:45 PM
Fiz wants KK to be the lead dog - sort of like Carmelo.

KP gonna just be cool with this?

wrong

Wrong

WRONG

LOUD WRONG.

Nothing about Carmelo

Nothing LIKE Carmelo

KP is not on the court last time I checked. 

And Knox has been communicating steadily with Porzingis, who has been encouraging him. 

Why WOULDN'T KP want KK to play like a lead dog, with OR without him.  Can only make things easier for KP coming back, if all of those double-triple teams he was facing last season after his hot start melted away.  Likewise Timmy.  Likewise Enes.  Likewise Frank-Emmanuel-Trey. 

Why do you feel this compulsion to fabricate BULLSHIT, where none exists.  And the steady drumbeat of your campaign to diminish Fizdale, when there has been ZERO EVIDENCE to suggest any negativity, such as your recent posts, which suggested "...Fiz taking advance credit for Mudiay's strong season...Lame."

Credibility cratering by the minute...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 05:58:05 PM
No dislike of Knox here

Cal's guys usaully show pretty strong.

Hoping they mesh.  But not banking on it.

Even if they dont we may have one of our strongest teams since that one Woodson squad.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 06:00:15 PM
No dislike of Knox here

Cal's guys usaully show pretty strong.

Hoping they mesh.  But not banking on it.

Even if they dont we may have one of our strongest teams since that one Woodson squad.

Ever since KP showed Phool his ass, you've had a great big hard on for him, as if he were some punk, and not Phool. 

Duly noted. 

As for the Woodson team, you mean THE JASON KIDD TEAM. 

Proof?

Look at the record the next season with no Kidd. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 06:20:10 PM
I dont care what the fuck you call it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 06:51:08 PM
I dont care what the fuck you call it

I picked up on that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 05, 2018, 08:04:56 PM
If he cared, he’d have better basketball opinions.

KP is a stretch big. Melo is a stretch big. When either is tasked with playmaking they are libel to be exposed. KK is a wing and perimeter creator. His skills mesh better with either KP or Melo than KP does with Melo.

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party. It’s making him salty on any topic, though it brings him no closer to truth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 05, 2018, 08:29:03 PM
If he cared, he’d have better basketball opinions.

KP is a stretch big. Melo is a stretch big. When either is tasked with playmaking they are libel to be exposed. KK is a wing and perimeter creator. His skills mesh better with either KP or Melo than KP does with Melo.

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party. It’s making him salty on any topic, though it brings him no closer to truth.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/96/5c/0d965c63702170aa5e605fdf8c3c40c1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 05, 2018, 09:15:30 PM
I

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party.



Nah, man - I get at least my 2.4 more years.
Title: AG chiiico
Post by: carlos123 on September 05, 2018, 10:24:16 PM
I

Kid is upset his grease bomb president has set fire to his party.



Nah, man - I get at least my 2.4 more years.

(https://arcabeanstalk.s3.amazonaws.com/var/www/html/web/custom/domain_1/image_files/sitemgr_dickjeffdickjeffdickjeff.png)

Yep, and the other chiiico may get his job
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 05, 2018, 11:50:00 PM
recent op ed in times https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html)  calls  it out clearly.  trump calls it treason.  i call it truth.

the man is a simply a greedy bastard who sold the country for cash.

not sure what his "make america great  hat"  sells for on the web site but pretty sure it's made in china.

the whole thing is a very bad joke on us.

Russia placed the Manchurian candidate in the white house.  Either that or a first grader.

Hard to fathom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2018, 02:29:24 AM
Dolan should invite trump to be his drummer. Tell him about all the groupies he meets after gigs, maybe offer to send him a billion dollars so he can clear some of his Russian debt as a signing bonus.

It would be money better spent than on Phil, Larry Brown, and Isiah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 06, 2018, 06:08:25 AM
The idea that KZ is going to feel threatened by Knox is dumb on its  face.  First off KZ isn't even going to be playing for a few months.
And Knox won't likely be The Man, and anyway rooks tend to fade mid-season, coincidentally when KZ will return.

Quote
The message from new head coach David Fizdale has been in line with his own approach. “He wants me to stay in attack mode,” Knox said. “He wants me to be really aggressive on the offensive end, be able to make plays for my teammates. On defense be able to guard the best player on the other team. That’s a big responsibility for me to take, but I’m really looking forward to it.

Fizz probably also told Knox he sees him in the ROY conversation.
Fizz likes to blow smoke and pump guys up with flattering talk.
That's his motivation MO. 
Nothing wrong with challenging guys and setting lofty goals.
We'll see how it works.
Still not clear if Knox will even start, though I expect so (I mean, why not?)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 06, 2018, 10:45:34 AM
"Open to any theories (on Noah)"

Maybe management aren't all in agreement.  Could be a faction that feels JoNo can help on the court.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2018, 12:20:47 PM
Maybe they are intent on keeping Noah as part of their recruitment of Kevin Durant and Jimmer Freddette. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 06, 2018, 01:15:05 PM
Noah will be with us into camp. There are about eight guys competing for four spots. Noah may get one through his work or he may not.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 06, 2018, 02:45:34 PM
Funny about Durant - reading how ENES KANTER is making the push - the case to KD to consider NY.

Sounds like Enes expects to be here, which is strange, given that we decided we preferred next year's cap space.
Title: Enes
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2018, 03:20:47 PM
Kanter likes to talk. 

He is a chatterbox. 

Comes by it honestly. 

Know he would dearly love to remain a Knick. 

Remains to be seen how his conditioning and response to Coach Fizdale's calculations (developing a dependable mid-range and long-range jumper) translates on the court and in the new conception of our offense. And if he can make another step forward on defense.   

What is surely ironic, is that given the possibility of Durant coming to New York--pretty damn remote a fantasy if you ask me--the team would likely have to let Kanter walk and use that 19 million in cap space to sign a stud muffin such as Durant. 

As we speak, hard to imagine KD not continuing with the Warriors.  I mean, why not?  Great team, great city, great community, great platform for him as a player and a person.  As presently constituted, they should be in the hunt for the NBA Finals every season for the next five years, unless some unspeakable injuries break the spell. 
Title: Note To Frank Ntilikina, Emmaneul Mudiay, Trey Burke Kevin Knox, Mario Hezonja
Post by: chipstern on September 06, 2018, 11:34:25 PM
Shawn Marion on J-Kidd: “He was one of the first guys that emphasized, ‘If you run I’ll get you the ball.’ I’m a firm believer that when I lace them up I’m ready to go. To have that reinforced to you by your point guard, isn’t that what you want to hear?”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 07, 2018, 03:02:54 AM
Knicks announce Media Day this year as Sept. 24. …Training camp then at their facility from Sept. 25 to Sept. 30. …Open practice at Madison Square Garden will be Sept. 29 at 1 pm.


I was a big Shawn Marion fan.  Terrific on the baseline and in transition.  Great defender.  Early smallball PF. Unorthodox shot, but I modeled my near-basket flip shot on both him and Antoine Jamison.  I shoot J's with the ball slightly behind my head a la Jamaal Wilkes, and for anything within 6 or 8 feet it's too slow to load, easier to use a Marion/Jamison little push-flip.  Works especially well after catching a pass on the baseline.  You can get those off in a hurry, before the defense can respond.

And as much as I like Marion, Magic was certainly an earlier Run and I'll Get it to you PG.  Hell, Marion was in a Worthy role.


I was at the big fake market a few days ago, and a guy who sells glasses had a NJ Jason Kidd clock.  It no longer worked, but he kept it up out of nostalgia.


So I'm playing the other week, and one guy has a decent sized patch of gauze over some injury.  After a few minutes the tape starts coming off.  He sees me look at the wound, and says it was from a dog bite.  He pauses a bit, then adds, "a police dog."  Well, I'm glad he got away and all, but it's rather an odd comment.  Then a bit later he explains that his job is training police dogs.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 07, 2018, 04:05:15 AM
The guys who started as guards on my HS team had this warm up where they’d methodically go to every spot within 18’ of the hoop, square their shoulders, hold the ball in front and just above the head, and shoot with just the wrist. Compared to competition, they weren’t that quick but if either could get an arm free it didn’t matter what shooting angle or coverage, the shot was usually going in.

From the film I’ve seen of Kadeem Allen, he has that in his game.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 07, 2018, 08:09:55 AM
Any time we can potentially steal a player from the Celtics it's fun.

Rooting for Allen.  Dotson better come to play.
Title: Celtics
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 11:44:07 AM
We almost stole Red Auerbach once. 

He was on his way to the airport, but a cabbie talked him out of it...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 12:44:16 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 07, 2018, 01:21:04 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.


yeah, never mind

The dude sucks anyway
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 01:35:08 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

That's not much of a rebuttal Chip, what is it that you object to?

I'll admit to the easy availability to good Chinese food in NYC, but I hope you understood that was TIC, but the rest is dead-on.

You want to steal Allen, a guy that Ainge cut, no problem here.

And Auerbach got over his anger at Kentucky-fried John Y Brown's idiotic meddling, stayed in Boston and rebuilt the '80s Celts from the late 70s clown-show.


 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 07, 2018, 02:22:41 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

That's not much of a rebuttal Chip, what is it that you object to?


Not much of a post. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 07, 2018, 03:49:06 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

That's not much of a rebuttal Chip, what is it that you object to?


Not much of a post.

Well Chip I addressed the points brought up specifically about the Celts, and dealt with them efficiently and accurately.

Apparently you had a problem, but since you've chosen snark rather than an articulate thought, I can only guess at the real source of your irritation.

Always a pleasure

and best of luck with the stolen bag of trash and your dim sum

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2018, 04:57:59 AM
Yawn
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 08, 2018, 06:04:15 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 08, 2018, 01:35:34 PM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Yes, by all means GOOGLE Jabari Bird. 

Oh, are we being snarky? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Yes, by all means GOOGLE Jabari Bird. 

Oh, are we being snarky?

Oh Chip you woke up from your nap, good.

I read your 5AM post earlier today and saw you were still sleepy and yawning and I didn't want to disturb your much needed slumber.

Is it from Insomnia? incontinence? Indigestion?

Well good luck with whatever it is that keeps you awake in the middle of the night, and makes you feel compelled to inform Elba you're tired at 5AM.

And my post was in response to Fac's Celtics observations, and I thought I did so in a straight forward manner, much as I did to yours about Auerbach.

There was no intended snark on my end. I guess its coming from elsewhere.

As to Jabari Bird's midnight troubles, given recent discussions and given kid's publicly stated appetite for Celtic leftovers and garbage I thought I'd give him a heads up that Ainge may be setting Jabari aside Sunday night, and he may be available for pick-up.

All the best, and here's hoping you enjoy a good nights sleep tonight.

But if i could suggest, perhaps if you removed the bug you got up your ass, that will result in a more uninterupted slumber.

Sweet dreams, Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 08, 2018, 03:11:34 PM
The guy I am looking forward to seeing is Brad Wanamaker.  May be a real nice addition to their G rotation especially after Smahht depahts.

Not so down on Baynes as some of you.  Solid lunchpailer with underrated O skills.  And I do think Al is a pretty darn good 5 when asked to be.  Actually wish more teams would go BIG - hoping this small.......non positional trend dissipates.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 08, 2018, 08:10:37 PM
blame in on the Bosa Nova and the 3-pointer
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 05:47:41 AM
I think the Celts get beaten up in the frontcourt this year by the Bucks, Bulls, Sixers, and Pistons among others. Al’s not getting any younger. Theis is alright, but Baynes, big as he is isn’t that good.

If there is a weakness its the 4 /5, but its relative to crazy depth (for now) the Celts have at at 3/4. Baynes added muscle and toughness and a tenacity on the boards that the Cs needed. And they held their own against most teams. Theis was showing real defensive skills before he was injured. Al is Al, and is not a 5. But he's way under-rated. he's a solid 2-way guy. And there is the new kid that if his alarm clock works might show something. And Jaylen Brown is turning into a 2-way monster that can be a PITA all over the court.   

I'm not too worried. Greek freak is a headache for everyone and Embiid is a match-up horror, but I've seen enough dominant 76ers centers lose to the Celts over the years.

Hoops is still a team game, where 1 on 5 usually doesnt win. and the Celts have bought into playing team D, the team is disciplined and deep (though a roster spot may be opening soon-Jabari Bird, google him) and are going to be a bitch to defend. I'm so looking forward to watching them play 2-way ball.

Yes, by all means GOOGLE Jabari Bird. 

Oh, are we being snarky?

Oh Chip you woke up from your nap, good.

I read your 5AM post earlier today and saw you were still sleepy and yawning and I didn't want to disturb your much needed slumber.

Is it from Insomnia? incontinence? Indigestion?

Well good luck with whatever it is that keeps you awake in the middle of the night, and makes you feel compelled to inform Elba you're tired at 5AM.

And my post was in response to Fac's Celtics observations, and I thought I did so in a straight forward manner, much as I did to yours about Auerbach.

There was no intended snark on my end. I guess its coming from elsewhere.

As to Jabari Bird's midnight troubles, given recent discussions and given kid's publicly stated appetite for Celtic leftovers and garbage I thought I'd give him a heads up that Ainge may be setting Jabari aside Sunday night, and he may be available for pick-up.

All the best, and here's hoping you enjoy a good nights sleep tonight.

But if i could suggest, perhaps if you removed the bug you got up your ass, that will result in a more uninterupted slumber.

Sweet dreams, Chip.

You humble me before my maker. 

Verily, I am not worthy. 

Oh, and...YAWN. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 12:06:45 PM
Bird.

heh.

No room for bad actors there.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 12:25:07 PM
I haven't seen any follows-up but supposedly Bird's in court tomorrow.

as an aside Knick's coulda had the orginal in the '78 draft but went with Michael Ray Richardson with the 4th pick (Bird was 6) and Spike Lee would have had to find a new foil and deal with an ethical dilemma
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 05:12:57 PM
I haven't seen any follows-up but supposedly Bird's in court tomorrow.

as an aside Knick's coulda had the orginal in the '78 draft but went with Michael Ray Richardson with the 4th pick (Bird was 6) and Spike Lee would have had to find a new foil and deal with an ethical dilemma

Red drafted Bird when he still had one more year of eligibility remaining, did he not, impervious to notions of instant gratification.  I reckon Larry was worth the one year wait, and an interval of sucking.  Something to be said for patience, vision, having a plan, and sticking to it. 

Pistol Pete played in Bird's rookie season, a shadow of himself, and Red wanted him back for another season, but The Pistol adjudged himself more harshly, and couldn't bear to play at something below his personal standards.  I always thought he was too harsh on himself, witness Bill Walton's phoenix-like ascension as a role player, spelling Parish.  Would like to think Pete could have endured as a canny veteran role player, but Pete didn't see himself that way, not out of misplaced ego, but because he didn't think he could bring it anymore.  A lost opportunity, to see Pistol Pete and Bird, as Larry was coming into full fucking bloom. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 05:54:56 PM
It was a wise move by Red, no doubt.  But even he admits he didnt know just how good LB was.

No great risk at all.  He knew he was at least getting a perimeter shooter.

Knicks were loaded at forward.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 05:57:51 PM
I haven't seen any follows-up but supposedly Bird's in court tomorrow.

as an aside Knick's coulda had the orginal in the '78 draft but went with Michael Ray Richardson with the 4th pick (Bird was 6) and Spike Lee would have had to find a new foil and deal with an ethical dilemma

Red drafted Bird when he still had one more year of eligibility remaining, did he not, impervious to notions of instant gratification.  I reckon Larry was worth the one year wait, and an interval of sucking.  Something to be said for patience, vision, having a plan, and sticking to it. 

Pistol Pete played in Bird's rookie season, a shadow of himself, and Red wanted him back for another season, but The Pistol adjudged himself more harshly, and couldn't bear to play at something below his personal standards.  I always thought he was too harsh on himself, witness Bill Walton's phoenix-like ascension as a role player, spelling Parish.  Would like to think Pete could have endured as a canny veteran role player, but Pete didn't see himself that way, not out of misplaced ego, but because he didn't think he could bring it anymore.  A lost opportunity, to see Pistol Pete and Bird, as Larry was coming into full fucking bloom.

Red/Bird-yup he saw an opportunity, much like he did with orchestrating Russell and figuring out a solution to Jo-Jo White's military service obligation. He was special.

And it would have been something to see younger/healthier Maravich and Cowens with Bird. That could have been specatcular.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 06:04:02 PM
It was a wise move by Red, no doubt.  But even he admits he didnt know just how good LB was.

No great risk at all.  He knew he was at least getting a perimeter shooter.

Knicks were loaded at forward.

The risk was substantial. Auerbach had a year to sign him or Bird could have opted into the next year's draft and would have likely been the #1 or #2 . (Magic was #1 that year).

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 06:48:50 PM
Bird had no intention of tuning down Celts, who of course had plenty of cash.  They met his demand.  As all parties figured would occur.

But if you have factual evidence that it was ever in doubt, I'd be grateful.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 08:17:37 PM
Bird had no intention of tuning down Celts, who of course had plenty of cash.  They met his demand.  As all parties figured would occur.

But if you have factual evidence that it was ever in doubt, I'd be grateful.

Kid this is close to 40 years ago, but as I recall thefe was considerable talk as the deadline approached, and a fair amount of public negotiations, and considerable relief when he signed shortly before the deadline approached.

And it should be remembered, Bird became a star not when the Celtics drafted him after his junior year, but after his Sycamores went undefeated in his senior year, only to lose to Magic and Mich state, in the NCAA finals. Magic went #1 , Bird might have opted into that draft as a much bigger star, and gotten paid more like a #1 or $2 instead of a #6.

As to your beleif, that the "Celtics had plenty of cash" that is a phrase seldom used about the pre-Bird Celtics. The Celtics were the 4th team in Boston, and owned by a string of owners in the 60s 70s and 80s who generally ran the Celtics on the cheap.

Auerbach ran the team almost by himself, there wa little infra-strucutre it was him, Jan Volk (a lawyer/accountant), and Buddy Le Roux (trainer) that was about it.  To say the late 70's Celtic had plenty of cash is simply incorrect.

If Bird wanted to opt out he might have been avialbe to deeper pocket teams like the Lakers owned by Jack Kent Cooke or the Knicks owned by the conglomerate Gulf & Western, both who had far more financial resources than the Celtics.

If you have other specific knowledge of Bird's thinking at the time, and his negotiating strategy, please share.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 09:30:09 PM
Bird got about 4 times what Magic got.

As a #1, 2.....3 with another team he would not have gotten more.  Celts basically "bought" him, as was their right at the time

And if you check the stats and awards history LB was AWESOME his first 2 years at State - and conference player of the year as a junior.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
Bird got about 4 times what Magic got.

As a #1, 2.....3 with another team he would not have gotten more.  Celts basically "bought" him, as was their right at the time

And if you check the stats and awards history LB was AWESOME his first 2 years at State - and conference player of the year as a junior.

Kid
Bird as a freshman (he left IU for Indy St) or as a sophmore is irrelevant, he became known as a Jr. and a national sensation as a senior. But there's a big difference  between a mid-major conference player of the year as a junior and AP player of the year as senior.

Bird had all the leverage in his contract situation and he got what he could get from the Celts.

Auerbach was on record as stating publicly that he was not going to make Bird the highest paid player on the Celts, and Bird and Co, said they weren't going to give any discounts. And they settled on a contract shortly before the deadline.

And Bird did not get 4X Magic money. Bird got about 650K Magic got $460K.

Do you just make shit up?

Larry got the "Great White hope" premium and would have gotten it from either the Lakers or Knicks if the Celtics didn't pay up. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 09, 2018, 10:23:22 PM
Correction:

Bird got substantially more than Magic

https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time (https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time)

You mostly agreed with me in your last post

Forced arguments as always are down the hall.   ----->
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 09, 2018, 10:31:11 PM
Correction:

Bird got substantially more than Magic

https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time (https://www.si.com/vault/1979/10/15/824060/two-for-the-show-the-celtics-larry-bird-and-lakers-magic-johnson-have-the-hottest-hands-to-hit-the-beleaguered-nba-in-a-long-time)

You mostly agreed with me in your last post

Forced arguments as always are down the hall.   ----->

thanks for verifying my #s.

As I posted and as it says in the first paragraph of that article, Magic got $460K Bird got $650K,

4X 460 would have been almost $1.84 million.

Why did you make up 4X when a quick search can reveal the real $?

This is not a forced argument, I've pointed out your blanket observations were wrong.

If you had any recollection of the NBA pre-Bird and Magic you probably would not have tried to bullshit me.

 
Title: Saquon Barkley
Post by: chipstern on September 09, 2018, 11:02:45 PM
Watching the Giant play their season opener, they were competitive against a clearly better, more in-sync team. 

You could see burps and brain farts, failures to execute, the lack of chemistry, make that the lack of CONSISTENT CHEMISTRY which comes from playing together, lots of reps. 

Think Knicks...top-to-bottom rebuild, trying to cement an identity on both offense and defense. 

As with the Knicks, patience...learning from mistakes...remain patient and don't deviate from the plan.  The team had plenty of positive moments to go with all the stumbles. 

Having said that, I was always very, very strongly in favor of drafting Barkley at #2.  Darnold is going to be one hell of a quarter back for the Jets, but I perceived Barkley to be a very special back.  VERY SPECIAL.  What Giant brass characterized as once in a lifetime...okay, maybe once in a generation. Not making myself to a seer here, but I have fallen out of favor with the modern pro game, because they have in large part gone away from the running game.  Jaguars had an excellent running game, are committed to an equal number of runs to passes, and it enables them to control the ball and string together drives (having said that, they won on a turnover, a tipped pass and runback, so a solid, coherent defense as well). 

Well, #2 pick in the 2018 NFL draft took his lumps today, discovering unlike the collegiate level, you can't make something out of nothing just on sheer talent.  Dropped some passes, got stuffed at the line, was unable to routinely turn the corner...however. 

Saquon Barkley's first touchdown as a pro was one of the most electrifying runs I have EVER seen in 50 years of watching pro football.  OLD SCHOOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PNljeoYVQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8PNljeoYVQ)

The offensive line finally gave him a hint of daylight; he burst forward into a breach within the defensive line, stopped on a dime and executed a decisive horizontal side step, a la Sayers & Sanders, turned one tackler completely around, made the next defender eat his dust in fending off an arm tackle, picked up speed breaking round end and along the sidelines as he went vertical, accelerating by a pair of defenders trying to disengage through a downfield block, stiff arming a tackler as he zoomed by, absorbing a glancing hit meant to knock him out of bounds, as he did some ballerina toe stepping along the sidelines, regaining his balance and forward momentum, shifting into his Secretariat gear as he pulled away from the final tackler, something of a speedster, but not speedster enough. 

Breathtaking.  I was screaming out loud, and I haven't given a damn about pro football in a while, but Saquon Barkley?  A throwback running back with size and speed, jukes and toughness.  Too soon to christen him as a bigger version of Barry Sanders, or to invoke the names of similarly sized and high velocity backs such as Eric Dickerson or Bo Jackson, but the strength the body the motor and the WILL are all there. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 10, 2018, 04:17:17 PM
I'm not quite sure signing a guy Ainge cut, is theft.

Its like grabbing a bag of trash left on the curb Sunday night, for pick-up by DPW Monday morning.

But if you have fun stealin' trash bags, so be it.

Auerbach?

Glad Auerbach came to his senses and put anger away.

Besides you guys had your Red, Celt's had their's.

And Auerbach could never find a good Chinese food in NYC.

Weak Partisan Poppycock

Quite weak.  Was not Jeremy Lin Houston's trash bag the Knicks scooped up - causing Daryl Morey so much heartburn he forked over nearly $50 million to get him back?

One man's trash can become that same man's regret.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
25 mil.

Lin hadnt yet played for HOU, was just with them in preseason before joining NY.  His first team was Golden State.

I dont think HOU ended up paying the last 15 mil of Lin's deal.  They dealt him to LA.  Good business.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 04:46:32 PM
Trade (not mine)

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2018, 05:34:13 PM
Pretty chewy season preview

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-2018-19-nba-season-preview/ (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-2018-19-nba-season-preview/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 10, 2018, 05:58:34 PM
Trade (not mine)

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1039251949319794688)

Thoughts?

That trade is almost the exact opposite of what we want to do. Dieng is the spiritual equivalent of Tim Hardaway, but at forward, in term of talent v. Contract. You can’t have “can he help you win?” questions about a 25 million per year player like Wiggins. His deal runs 3 more years like Hardaway and Dieng, a year longer than Noah.

No thanks to bailing Minny out.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 07:45:22 PM
We could use the big, but I think Wiggins is the key guy in the deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2018, 08:38:59 PM
We could use the big, but I think Wiggins is the key guy in the deal.

No Sale.

No thanks to bailing Minny out. 

Perhaps Wiggins is chafing under the whip of Coach Thibs, but he seems oddly unmotivated last season, and Jimmy Butler is apparently not a fan.  He took a pretty significant backwards step last season, such as significant drops in FTA and FT%.  A good player, a nicely skilled player, but not a drop dead shooter or aggressive rebounder.  Oh, and 25-27-29 million a year through 2020-21?  Why? 

PS: You seem to be dismissing, well, overlooking, the presence of this Kevin Knox fellow who just showed up under the Xmas Tree at Small Forward.  Are you projecting Wiggins as a big wing SG?  Or demonstrably more upside than Knox?  And Dieng?  We get rid of Noah to add a player with an extra year at comparable money?  We need bigs?  We presently have Kanter, Noah, Kornet and Robinson (who you apparently think is a mirage).  And this Porzingis fellow is slated to return at some point. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 08:52:33 PM
Who are you talking to?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2018, 08:59:20 PM
Whosoever is advocating for this trade. 

Someone was running it up the flag pole to see if anyone lurking about might salute.  Not you?  Might want to check in with the administrator and make it plain that there is only room for one Kiid on this forum. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:35:23 PM
Are you a fucking moron?  It was a tweet.  The author is right on it.

I asked for opinions.  Didnt give one.  So, address your opinion to the masses.

I think Wiggins can play - and yeah...

a)  He had a down year, last year of his rook deal.  Cant imagine he looks like a 30 mil guy in the near future.
b)  We will likely just keep our cap space since we COVET certain talent.  Dont want to take ourselves out of the running for the best of the best.

If we did the deal, are there positives?

Yes.  Front line would be quite good, I believe.  And we still have Lee to play the 2.

But I appreciate as always your backing of THJ. 
Title: Timmy & Enes & Emmanuel & Kevin & Mario & Frank
Post by: chipstern on September 10, 2018, 10:44:49 PM
Yes, I am down with Timmy.  I think he is primed to have a career year.  The first month or two of last year, when both he and KP were clicking, we were a playoff team, until the God of Injuries intervened. 

Now if Enes and Emmanuel do likewise, and Kevin, Mario and Frank bring it, we could have an interesting team. 

I am sure the Wolves have yet to give up on Wiggins, but likely are entertaining inquiries. 

Thibs has to be flexible and find a comfort zone for him.  Third option behind Butler and Towns doesn't quite do it. 

Simmons and Embid in Philly is a nice template. 

PS: By the way, I'm not a fucking moron, but thank you for asking anyway. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 10:55:09 PM
Wigs is their Otto Porter

Pretty good team over there
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 10, 2018, 11:17:51 PM
RIP, R J Adelman

https://theathletic.com/496769/2018/09/06/the-colorful-life-and-shocking-death-of-r-j-adelman-the-brains-behind-a-basketball-family/ (https://theathletic.com/496769/2018/09/06/the-colorful-life-and-shocking-death-of-r-j-adelman-the-brains-behind-a-basketball-family/)
Title: Double-i chiico tries to quote somebody
Post by: carlos123 on September 11, 2018, 12:42:37 AM
Are you a fucking moron? 


“He’s a fucking moron.”
Rex Tillerson

But Rex was no referring to Chip. Now, was he chiico?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2018, 01:20:01 AM
Wigs is their Otto Porter

Pretty good team over there

Kevin Knox is our Otto Porter/Andrew Wiggins, only younger and bigger. 

Exhale.  We got lucky.  Kevin is going to supercharge Hardaway and all the wings.  I remember what Allan Houston said during a brief transition in which he played with Marbury.  Said he was so open it scared him. 

Kevin & Timmy.  Guard THIS, motherfuckers. 

Now if only Hezonja can only hang with Power Forwards.

Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Burke

I think Frank and Emmanuel come off the bench together like a sixth man. 

Burke?

Timmy's back court mate in college.  You can't bottle it, you can't grow it in a lab...it is the periodic table of chemistry. 
Title: Re: Double-i chiico tries to quote somebody
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2018, 01:21:34 AM
Are you a fucking moron? 


“He’s a fucking moron.”
Rex Tillerson

But Rex was no referring to Chip. Now, was he chiico?

RX and I Don't Hang Anymore. 

It was an amicable divorce.  He got everything.  I got this little mirror. 

Color me satis-all-fired up. 
Title: Not TOO Shabby
Post by: chipstern on September 11, 2018, 02:05:09 AM
Sam Darnold.

Yes. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 02:18:29 AM
Quote
Now if only Hezonja can only hang with Power Forwards.

He can’t. Fortunately we have Vonleh who can, and Lance who sorta can.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2018, 08:06:42 AM
I get such a kick out of folks using "younger" as a positive.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2018, 08:15:47 AM
Quote
Now if only Hezonja can only hang with Power Forwards.

He can’t. Fortunately we have Vonleh who can, and Lance who sorta can.

Lance cant be relied on to score, which is why Mario is here.

Vonleh is a total wild card.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 01:42:34 PM
Mario does score. He moves the ball and is willing to mix it up defensively more than he’s given credit for, but he gets absolutely eaten up in the post. He’s most effective as a small forward or shooting guard.

Lance may not bring scoring, but he can body up effectively and still credibly stretch the floor.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 11, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
Positionless basketball...........

Can he play?  If so, Hezonja will be on the floor at whatever position for more than five to ten minutes a night.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 11, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
He’ll probably get decent run by eating most of Lee’s minutes.

Speaking of the power forward slot, Hicks was chosen by Van Gundy for the World team this year.
Title: On the road to Zion
Post by: Kam on September 11, 2018, 03:50:58 PM

Speaking of the power forward slot, Hicks was chosen by Van Gundy for the World team this year.

If so, the World Team should have top lottery odds this year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:38:31 AM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 01:19:06 PM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors

Based on what?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2018, 02:14:50 PM
Kid just wants a center to play beside Kanter at PF. Think of the picks that they could set for Jimmer. He could get off 30 shots a game.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 02:38:50 PM
Kid just wants a center to play beside Kanter at PF. Think of the picks that they could set for Jimmer. He could get off 30 shots a game.

Knee injuries are a daunting challenge to come back from. 

But my recollection of this young man on the way out the door is of a singularly self-absorbed, curiously unmotivated, pouty individual who really did not respect his own gifts, nor his commitment to those folks signing his checks. 

Also, while it is surely premature to anoint Mitchell Robinson as the second coming, Kiid's antipathy seems curiously wrought. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 12, 2018, 03:04:18 PM
The KP Robinson Knox frontcourt is worth waiting for.

Reports say Minny is in no way interested in signing a released Noah at the minimum. The same reports still have the Knicks intent on stretching him before the season.

Who is more likely to be on a roster in October, Bynum or Noah?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 03:34:35 PM
The KP Robinson Knox frontcourt is worth waiting for.

Reports say Minny is in no way interested in signing a released Noah at the minimum. The same reports still have the Knicks intent on stretching him before the season.

Who is more likely to be on a roster in October, Bynum or Noah?

Walt Bellamy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors

Based on what?

NEED
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618 (https://twitter.com/LakersNation/status/1039876287177711618)

Would look good in Knicks colors

Based on what?

NEED

You have outdone yourself. 

What need presupposes we pursue a 30 year old wash out who hasn't played in four years and who was physically and emotionally underwhelming when last he deigned to rehab or play? 

I'd rather have Noah. 

For that matter, if we are talking about an old school low post offensive center, why go for a gimpy mirage when we have a younger, healthier center in Brother Kanter, who is a better rebounder and FT shooter. 

And team mate.  I mean, because Bynum is a jerk.  Remember his going away ultra-cheap shot foul in the playoffs?  Hmmmm?

But hey, I'm a fucking moron.   

Duly noted. 

PS: Yes, Mitchell Robinson is slotted for G-League.  And youth is overrated. Heh. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 08:22:06 PM
A washout.

Wow.

I don't see the problem with taking a look

Again - get age out of the 2018-19 equation.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 09:11:49 PM
Chip has proclaimed my guy Kanter to be above Andrew Bynum, a comeback candidate to the league looking for a minimum deal.

Brilliant, that Chip.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 12, 2018, 10:20:51 PM
Chip has proclaimed my guy Kanter to be above Andrew Bynum, a comeback candidate to the league looking for a minimum deal.

Brilliant, that Chip.

Yes, let's bring an immature, selfish, creaky player, four years out of the league (sporting crappy knees when last spotted among the living), on board for the minimum deal so he can pollute the gene pool, postpone the development of Kornet and Robinson, and create a log jam to prevent Kanter from discovering his true level under Coach Fizdale. 

I must confess that I did not immediately apprehend the sheer brilliance of your inspiration.  Player development at its best.  No wonder Scott Perry never makes a move without first consulting you. 

But then, mere mortals are honored to bask in your penumbra. 

Shine on...

PS: We now return to the further episodes of WET DREAMS WITH JIMMER.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 12, 2018, 10:45:00 PM
Minus Noah -if Kanter is shitcanned for 4th quarters again this guy could be a nice C option

You forgot how good Bynum was.

I forgive you.

(Fuck - he aint choosing us anyway - so lets close this case)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 12:36:30 AM
Minus Noah -if Kanter is shitcanned for 4th quarters again this guy could be a nice C option

You forgot how good Bynum was.

I forgive you.

(Fuck - he aint choosing us anyway - so lets close this case)

Bless you father.

Oh, and I DO recall how good he was...WAS.

We drafted Channing Frye ahead of him, and it quickly appeared that the Lakers had made a reach (Praise MITCHELL ROBINSON) that was going to pay dividends.  Of course, early in the the first round us even more daring. 

As for Kanter being pulled in the fourth quarter?

THAT was on Hornacek. 

And I would way way prefer Noah over Bynum. 

Nighty NIGHT. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2018, 01:09:08 AM
If we’re going to take a flyer on a redemptive return, I’d prefer Bosh (if enough doctors sign off) to Noah, Bynum, or Bellamy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 02:14:02 AM
If we’re going to take a flyer on a redemptive return, I’d prefer Bosh (if enough doctors sign off) to Noah, Bynum, or Bellamy.

Noah has a head's up on Bellamy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 13, 2018, 03:05:19 AM
Yes. Yes he does.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 09:05:29 AM
Heck, if Bellamy is in the mix, I'd prefer the Knicks take Reed as they did the last time they chose between the two.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 09:51:50 AM
Walt Bellamy?

Without using the Google machine, (which full disclosure I did and I got the question wrong)

What was Bells 1st NBA team and who did he play for in his 2nd season?

And why would the Knicks use a roster spot on Bynum? Will he help 2-3 years from now?  Is he a mentor for young Knicks bigs?

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Walt Bellamy?

Without using the Google machine, (which full disclosure I did and I got the question wrong)

What was Bells 1st NBA team and who did he play for in his 2nd season?

And why would the Knicks use a roster spot on Bynum? Will he help 2-3 years from now?  Is he a mentor for young Knicks bigs?

Thank you.

Kiid seems to believe that our current passion for youth is misplaced. 

Oh well. 

PS: Chicago Packers, which beget the Chicago Zephyrs, which beget the Baltimore Bullets.

PPS: And whom did the Knicks trade to the Bullets to get Bellamy in trade? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 11:00:04 AM
Walt Bellamy?

Without using the Google machine, (which full disclosure I did and I got the question wrong)

What was Bells 1st NBA team and who did he play for in his 2nd season?

And why would the Knicks use a roster spot on Bynum? Will he help 2-3 years from now?  Is he a mentor for young Knicks bigs?

[/Thank you.color]

Kiid seems to believe that our current passion for youth is misplaced. 

Oh well.

Bynum may be only 30, but his knees might be 70.

IMO Knicks should stick with kids this year, take their lumps, let them learn and grow, see who has a future and who doesn't, don't rush KP back and collect a decent lottery pick,

wash, rinse repeat.

IMO the tough part for Fizz is don't let the kids get too discouraged on what is going to be a discouraging year at times.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 13, 2018, 11:19:41 AM
Quote
PS: Chicago Packers, which beget the Chicago Zephyrs, which beget the Baltimore Bullets.

Chip--If you got that without the Google machine, kudos.

I forgot about the Chicago Packers, but remember the Zephyrs, and vaguely recall as a kid thinking that was a weird pro franchise name to choose to switch to. I wasn't wrong.

I think Bells was part of the trade to get Dave D, but I got no idea who the Knicks traded to get him originally.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
Knicks got Bellamy for Johnny Green (among others)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 01:55:31 PM
Knicks got Bellamy for Johnny Green (among others)

And Bad News Barnes, who was a #1 pick. 

And Bank, the trade for DeB involved Bellamy AND Howie Komives. 

Bells was a damn good player, who as I recall, would give the likes of Wilt and Russell fits, while occasionally vapor locking versus the Darrell Imhoff's of the world.  The motivation for the trade was a less a matter of displeasure with Walt, as the need to eliminate a log jam at the four & five spots. 

Willis was thus able to slide over from the 4 to the 5, and with Dave at the 4, we won our only championships...none before, and none since. 

Similar situation with Cartwright and Ewing, as Patrick chaffed at the notion Hubie had of him playing at the 4. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 04:47:23 PM
Knicks got Bellamy for Johnny Green (among others)

That YOUR Guitar, dude? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 13, 2018, 04:50:51 PM
God I wish it was.  It was Duane Allman's.  Not a great pic. 
Title: Doncic
Post by: Kam on September 13, 2018, 05:36:16 PM
too slow
Title: Re: Doncic
Post by: carlos123 on September 13, 2018, 06:04:35 PM
too slow

For what?
Title: Doncic
Post by: chipstern on September 13, 2018, 07:23:15 PM
Doncic is going to be a force. 

As I recall, Larry Bird was slow and couldn't jump. 

Doncic ain't Larry Bird, but he is a heady player with physical gifts. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:57:05 PM
He's a guard

So could be BIRD among guards

Listen to Nike.  No limits.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 13, 2018, 11:59:25 PM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?

Title: Chiico’s top 3
Post by: carlos123 on September 14, 2018, 12:17:57 AM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?

Jimmer?

Lonzo?

Mudiay?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 07:20:38 AM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?
That's incredible! Number 100!. I'm willing to kick in 5 bucks toward the parade you're throwing
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 08:21:16 AM
Certain to shoot up the list in time - I look forward to keeping you all updated on the progress.  Saw the "new" shooting form, which looks prettyt much like the old - with a small adjustment .

There was a question -

did Mitchell crack your top 25?  But quickly brushed aside by the panel.  Donovan's soph season surely one item to watch closely this season.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 08:40:30 AM
Interesting that Horford (16) checked in ahead of Irving (17).

A slight overrate for Al?  Not sure I'd have him in my 25.

LIST:

https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki (https://www.si.com/nba/2018/09/10/top-100-nba-players-2019-lebron-james-stephen-curry-dirk-nowitzki)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 08:45:13 AM
At his best, the 20-year-old Ball plays a beautiful weirdo brand of hoops that would merit a full chapter if “Free Darko” ever released a sequel. His passing and vision—hailed as elite by pre-draft analysts—lived up to the hype. He proved to be a capable pace-setter and a strong rebounder for his position. Most impressively, he was a plus defender right out of the gate thanks to his good size and instincts. On paper, Ball’s role in James’s new cast is intriguing. A successful blueprint would utilize him as a secondary passer and off-ball cutter, rather than as a full-time lead guard launching misguided threes in volume. Although Ball is hardly a textbook modern backcourt prospect, the dawn of “LeBronzo” promises to carry his distinctive game to new heights. — BG

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 14, 2018, 09:28:43 AM
Did I hear right?

Lonzo Ball in the top 100, per SI?  And Melo is not?

Also this AM - discussion of a top 5

KD, LBJ, AD, Curry and Harden

Can any player crack that 5?
That's incredible! Number 100!. I'm willing to kick in 5 bucks toward the parade you're throwing

I'm pretty sure that's what LaVar Ball kicked in to land Lonzo the 100 spot.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
I'm willing to add another $5.00 to the parade fund when the generational talent Lonzo Ball passes Fred VanVleet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 14, 2018, 09:53:57 AM
I saw the list yesterday and thought, outside of maybe the top 15-20 guys, ranking current players becomes a mix of part art, part science politics and darts. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 10:15:57 AM
I'm willing to add another $5.00 to the parade fund when the generational talent Lonzo Ball passes Fred VanVleet.

attaboy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 10:25:16 AM
Nice to see my guys

Olynyk
Vucevic
Markaanen
Schroder
Sabonis
Randle

in the 51-100

Interesting that KP is at 52 while WIGGINS is not far behind at 74 (zzzzinnggggg, Chipster)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:26:39 AM
Nice to see my guys

Olynyk
Vucevic
Markaanen
Schroder
Sabonis
Randle

in the 51-100

Interesting that KP is at 52 while WIGGINS is not far behind at 74 (zzzzinnggggg, Chipster)

I like Maark & Sabonis, though I saw little of Indy last year.

Olynyk a rather unique player.  Needs the right situation.
Randle too, as a throwback bully PF.
I'm interested to see how he works with AD.
I like JRue so keep pulling for NOPe to right their ship.

Don't like Shroder or Vuc.

Good to see SI somewhat relevant ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 11:40:01 AM
Randle does many things......

Now that he is not with Lonzo maybe you can stomach viewing his games  :)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:48:44 AM
My guys 51-100

67 Miles Turner -- though again I didn't see INDy much last year.

71 Josh Rich -- SI touts his defense and persistence, but he can score and pass.  I'd like to see him more involved in the MIA offense.

82 Rozier - the secret's out after last year's playoffs.

94 FVV - interesting to see if he can keep it up another year, but he was perhaps the best backup PG last year.

As for vets: Batum, Rubio and 95 DMC, the skinny one, who bounced back nicely from injuries.  Aging a bit though. 
And 87 Iggy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 11:58:04 AM
I like Lonzo.
Lonzo would be my 5th young guy (on the SI 51-100)
I don't care if his shot is limited for now or his Dad is a megalomaniac. He's got elite passing skills, rebounds well, and played solid D.
Let others shoot, and let him improve his shooting as his career develops.  He brings a lot.

Randle looks terrific some nights and others he just seems to barrel into people and take ugly shots.  Boards well but iffy defense.
I have trouble deciding where his career will go or what his value is.
Can he put it together and become more consistent, or will he remain erratic?  Seems like a worker bee. 

Might be one of those guys that needs the right fit/system.
Which is why the NO change-of-scenery is very intriguing.
I'm not sold on Randle, but if I were NOPe I would have also let Cousin Boogie walk and taken a chance with Randle.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 11:59:26 AM
Re:  NO

Lots of PG there

Elfrid gets another shot

Darius Morris, Tony Carr, Ian Clark....

But the guy they really like - had a nice summer league - is FRANK JACKSON.

Randle, Miro, Davis TROIKA getting all the pub though.  They are really bullish on this team.

Etwuan, , Troy Williams, both Okafors......Aijinca, Diallo

Sleeper is high flying Garlon Green.  That's Gerald's bro.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 14, 2018, 12:20:27 PM
I like Lonzo.
Lonzo would be my 5th young guy (on the SI 51-100)
I don't care if his shot is limited for now or his Dad is a megalomaniac. He's got elite passing skills, rebounds well, and played solid D.
Let others shoot, and let him improve his shooting as his career develops.  He brings a lot.

Randle looks terrific some nights and others he just seems to barrel into people and take ugly shots.  Boards well but iffy defense.
I have trouble deciding where his career will go or what his value is.
Can he put it together and become more consistent, or will he remain erratic?  Seems like a worker bee. 

Might be one of those guys that needs the right fit/system.
Which is why the NO change-of-scenery is very intriguing.
I'm not sold on Randle, but if I were NOPe I would have also let Cousin Boogie walk and taken a chance with Randle.
I like Lonzo too. And I think SI has him ranked correctly give or take. I expect him to move way up this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 14, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Heh

Well, that's settled.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 01:05:16 PM
Does NO start AD-Randle-Mirotic?

Their bench looks pretty iffy which has been their Achilles for years.
While JRue and AD miss some games most years.

Sol Hill, OKa4's, Elfrid, Troy, Ian Clark (a mistake player).
Could work but I'm skeptical.

Might be another year of starters wearing themselves out and the bench giving up leads.
I like Gentry.  Maybe he can figure it out.
Randle might come off the bench ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 14, 2018, 01:07:03 PM
The funny thing is if Lonzo were another PG who could score and play poor defense, everyone would be fine with that (well, except Bo).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2018, 08:17:05 AM
The funny thing is if Lonzo were another PG who could score and play poor defense, everyone would be fine with that (well, except Bo).

???
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 15, 2018, 11:46:42 AM
Seems clear to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 15, 2018, 12:48:11 PM
If for no other reasons than, a year of maturity and adding LeBron, Lonzo should benefit statistically, and the Lakers W/L record should improve dramatically. But whether he becomes a better outside shooter or much better player is another matter. I'm guessing a year of LBL and maybe a Rondo tutorial or two can't be bad.

IMO the more compelling question is how will Markelle Fultz, who did not show up in the SI's top 100 list, fair in '19?

If he's the guy who the 76ers thought when they traded for his rights, it will have a huge impact for the next several years.

if not?

A massive fuck-up.

After almost a year of tinkering in the lab has he rediscovered his mechanics?

Word out of Philly seem mixed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 15, 2018, 02:51:22 PM
If for no other reasons than, a year of maturity and adding LeBron, Lonzo should benefit statistically





Nah,  Not this year

Split time with Rajon.  LBJ on the ball.  LBJ gobbling boards.

In time could average a triple double minus 2-3 boards.  That type player.   Just not with the 2018-19 team.  (Would have had the chance had Celts taken him)

Wont be evaluating this soph on the statlines
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 16, 2018, 09:55:38 AM
great anecdote from today's Dan Shaughnessy (aka Shank) in today's Globe

A favorite nugget from “Basketball: A Love Story” (by Jackie MacMullan, Rafe Bartholomew, and Dan Klores, out Sept. 18) is Larry Brown recalling a 44-year-old Wilt Chamberlain showing up at UCLA for pickup games featuring Magic Johnson, who was in his prime with the Lakers. Chamberlain ends one game with a clean block of Magic at the rim, but Johnson tries to call goaltending. According to Brown, who was UCLA’s head coach at the time, “Wilt grabs the ball from Magic and says, ‘We’re gonna play another game, and they’ll be no more shots at this basket.’ And he proceeded to block everything."


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 16, 2018, 12:37:42 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see Alonzo Trier kept instead of Ron Baker, if the decision comes down to that.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2018, 01:06:38 PM
No question Trier is better than Baker. I wonder if Allen is better Trier at this point as well as being better than Baker. If so, Allen should get Baker’s spot and Trier should remain a 2-way guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2018, 02:03:26 PM
Wouldn't be surprised to see Alonzo Trier kept instead of Ron Baker, if the decision comes down to that.

I am going to say Knicks management likes Baker's makeup so much that he is almost in "will not cut" territory.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 16, 2018, 02:26:56 PM
Since you have zero basis for this, I am not going to believe you.

Baker is going to lock down Jimmer in pretty white boy battles in the Far East.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 16, 2018, 03:45:54 PM
Well, Baker has the contract going for him.

Be interesting to see what he's added to his game.
Good hustle, toughness, feel for the game.  Just needs to add one viable skill to that package.
Likely the difference between a 2-3 year career and a 6-7 year career.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 16, 2018, 05:46:10 PM
Well, Baker has the contract going for him.

Be interesting to see what he's added to his game.
Good hustle, toughness, feel for the game.  Just needs to add one viable skill to that package.
Likely the difference between a 2-3 year career and a 6-7 year career.

Good tough defender. 

Knicks always rallied behind him on D when Ron was on the floor. 

All of these big wings Knicks are brining on board are a pointed message, not only to Ron, but to Timmy and Courtney. 

I really liked what I saw from Trier in summer league.  I think he is capable of creating his own shot at the NBA level. 

Baker will compete like hell with all of the wings, we know that going in. 

If as you suggest, he develops a skill, such as, oh,  A CONSISTENT SHOT FROM LONG RANGE, his chances increase dramatically. 

PS: Bo, while I was driving my taxi last night, I picked up a cat on the lower East Side and took him to Brooklyn.  Turned out to be the Nets dentist. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 16, 2018, 09:54:26 PM
Lets see.......

.333 a  year ago from deep

.369 in college, making 2 per game.

Trend would say RB gets to about an 11 PER this year.  We'll see.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 17, 2018, 12:21:19 AM
Also based on those identical trends, year 1 to year 2, his 2pt percentage should fall to .250, he should pull 0.1 rebounds, and he should play in 3 total games.

Maybe as a guy who knows his NBA career is on the line, he has transformed himself into a much more useful player. The picture will get clearer in a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 04:48:58 AM
Bzdelik retiring to avoid having to coach defense out of Melo.

It is sort of weird timing.
With the season upcoming and the team a contender.
Lost Ariza and Luc M&M, who were their switch everything guys.

I was always surprised Buzz didn't get another head coaching op after Denver.  They were terrible his first year in the wake of McDyess' knee injury.  Then he got them to the playoffs with a winning record the next year behind a rook named Melo, then was canned part way through his 3rd year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 07:53:06 AM
Fun time waster.
Each teams all-time starting 5.
Two requirements: 1) 5 years with the team & 2) one team per player (Kareem can only be a Buck or Lkae, not both).
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/photos/each-nba-teams-all-time-starting-five/

They cheat on positions a fair amount, and the thing I noticed was how weak the PF slot is/was.  Mostly they move another dominant C over to PF to cover.

I was surprised how good the Nuggets 5 were:
Fat Lever, David Thompson, Alex English, Melo, Issel.
That's some crazy scoring/shooting.

Richie Guerin over AH?

Pau needs to be on the Griz squad.  And Gay over Mike Miller as well.

3 of Atlanta's 5 were throwbacks: Wilkens, Lou Hudson, and Bob Pettit.

There's a number of throwback guys I know little or nothing about:
Paul Arizin, Guerin, Bob Love, Chet Walker ...



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 17, 2018, 09:12:11 AM
Nice piece on Bzdelik, including how Knicks lost him (dammit, Riley) and ties to NBA legend Wes Unseld

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 09:52:29 AM
Give D'antmanbee credit for taking Bzdelik on as a defensive guru, covering for Dant's weakness.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 17, 2018, 10:18:29 AM
Nice piece on Bzdelik, including how Knicks lost him (dammit, Riley) and ties to NBA legend Wes Unseld

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden (https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/bjpbd8/meet-the-defensive-genius-behind-the-rockets-championship-push-jeff-bzdelik-harden)

404 Error Message. 

Bzdelik. 

You win some.  You lose some. 

Anyone still lamenting how we didn't get Tom Thumb Thibs? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 17, 2018, 10:29:33 AM
A good piece.
The odd thing is the article loads for me, then goes to a 404 Error message.
So I just had to stop the loading process and then was able to read it.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 10:00:04 AM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 18, 2018, 11:38:31 AM

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

HYPOTHETICAL Fantasy trade

Would you trade #1 picks for Butler.  (And whatever salary is needed: THjr or Noah if they prefer)

Pro:

With Butler in trade, you only need to open up one more max salary
Makes it more likely you get Irving.

Cons:

Would take at least 2 #1 picks.

Title: Jimmy
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 12:01:30 PM
A wonderful player.  For sure.

But once again, I am forced to upchuck at the suggestion that we trade #1 picks. 

NONONONONO

No. 

And Scott Perry agrees with me, thank goodness, as he rejects the idea of trading our most valuable assets for players who we might be able to get in free agency without gutting our team. 

Melo and Marbury anyone? 

Hell, EDDY CURRY for fuck's sake. 

As for free agency, we will have plenty of free agents of our own come the spring/summer of 2019. 

Based on how our "busts" and "bust-outs" do, we will have some serious decisions to make about talent, and the decision making process will be very revealing of how this team proceeds going forward. 

That is to say, do we gut our own squad of our own free agents in order to create MAXIMUM SPACE, or TWO MAXIMUM SPACES. 

My own vote would be no, but it is too early to make any such determinations. 

On September 24 everyone, players, management, coaches, go ON THE CLOCK. 

WHO WANTS TO BE A KNICK.

WHO WANTS TO REMAIN A KNICK. 

PS: But Chip, are you saying that under no circumstances would you trade any of our #1 picks?  YES, that is exactly what I am saying.  No short cuts.  No instant gratification.  THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:16:54 PM

Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

HYPOTHETICAL Fantasy trade

Would you trade #1 picks for Butler.  (And whatever salary is needed: THjr or Noah if they prefer)

Pro:

With Butler in trade, you only need to open up one more max salary
Makes it more likely you get Irving.

Cons:

Would take at least 2 #1 picks.

I will hold off on everything and take the shot at KD - thanks.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:18:56 PM
No #1s!!!!

Check out Chip - pining for the likes of Romeo Langford and Jontay Porter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 12:19:38 PM
Kid, if you were doing the picking any pick would be worthless, but you thankfully make none of those decisions.

Jimmy on the cheaps or not at all. No trading picks!

Laydumb is respected in so much as you are confusing ridicule for respect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 12:20:10 PM
Earl Monroe? A WONDFERFUL player, for sure.

But........



heh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 18, 2018, 12:34:00 PM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!
Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.

Yeah, I was wrong.
After the Knix, I said Layden wouldn't get another GM job.
Though it's still Thibs as PoB Op calling the shots, right?

The GM title isn't what it used to be ...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 12:40:54 PM
An interesting outlook on the season...

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251115/The-Knicks-Are-Finding-Direction-And-Identity-In-A-Lost-Year (http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251115/The-Knicks-Are-Finding-Direction-And-Identity-In-A-Lost-Year)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 01:09:45 PM
Kid, if you were doing the picking any pick would be worthless, but you thankfully make none of those decisions.

Jimmy on the cheaps or not at all. No trading picks!

Laydumb is respected in so much as you are confusing ridicule for respect.

The NBA exists outside of your tiny bubble.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 18, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!
Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.

Yeah, I was wrong.
After the Knix, I said Layden wouldn't get another GM job.
Though it's still Thibs as PoB Op calling the shots, right?

The GM title isn't what it used to be ...

Ha. Kiid freaked out when I tried to make the same point.

GM = the assistant GM
VP Basket Ops = the real GM
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 02:16:19 PM
Kid like yes men, morons, and the otherwise unqualified or simply wrong headed. It’s true here, but even more true in the political forums.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:19:19 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 02:30:44 PM
Nice Wolves interview - for those Jonesing for some Layden:

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/layup-line-episode-4-timberwolves-general-manager-scott-layden (https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/news/layup-line-episode-4-timberwolves-general-manager-scott-layden)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 03:19:52 PM
Sadly Celtics couldnt help Bird

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251153/Jabari-Bird-Sought-Mental-Health-Help-Before-Domestic-Violence-Incident (https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251153/Jabari-Bird-Sought-Mental-Health-Help-Before-Domestic-Violence-Incident)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 04:11:32 PM
Earl Monroe? A WONDFERFUL player, for sure.

But........



heh.

No #1 pick involved. 

Mike Riordan-Dave Stallworth-Cash

Also, not that it would matter to you, the Knicks were an established, championship grade franchise, with a solid core of proven veterans. 

So they gave value to get value. 

Heh?

DUH
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on September 18, 2018, 04:15:51 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Good landing spot for Jarrett.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 04:58:41 PM
I didn't realize Scott Layden was GM of Minnesota.

They are gonna F'up Towns/Butler FOR SURE!
Maybe we can get JB for season opener.

Highly respected NBA coach/exec.  Always has been.

Yeah, I was wrong.
After the Knix, I said Layden wouldn't get another GM job.
Though it's still Thibs as PoB Op calling the shots, right?

The GM title isn't what it used to be ...

Ha. Kiid freaked out when I tried to make the same point.

GM = the assistant GM
VP Basket Ops = the real GM

It's Thibs

Then it's Layden

Unless you think Mr Yoshimoto is out making deals

https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/team/basketball-operations (https://www.nba.com/timberwolves/team/basketball-operations)

Have to think Scott does much of the legwork and Thibs has the hammer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Good landing spot for Jarrett.

Happy for JJ.

A Pro's Pro. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
I guess Jamie Matthews, not Scott Perry, makes Knicks trades.

https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office (https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 05:39:03 PM
Seriously though - with Layden.....

UGH on the draft picks he did make

The forum liked Sweetney

heh

- and Harrington - while being a need - was an overpay.

But in Scott's defense -

he added Van Horn..... then Keith was jettisoned for Tim Thomas after Layden was fired

And Thomas begot Curry - again - under the new GM

You all got what you deserved after skewering the guy out of town
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 05:52:00 PM
More Self-Inflated, Self-Congratulatory, Revisionist Bullshit. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 06:09:51 PM
By the way - Andrei Kirilenko was a Layden fave - and could very well have been Knicks pick at 15 in place of Weis.  But he was hired AFTER that draft went down

Donnell Harvey was a very good collegian - and we just missed on Mo Pete and Claxton that year. At 22, whatareyougonnado?  Nene deal, say what you want - good pick. 

As I said - Harrington........  and Sweetney.......

Rest was B+ stuff.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
Last -

Scott fired -

and THIS happens

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/08/retrospective-stephon-marbury.html (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/08/retrospective-stephon-marbury.html)

reminding all that Layden did legwork on this and WOULD NOT PULL THE TRIGGER WITH PENNY IN THE DEAL.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 18, 2018, 06:18:55 PM
Harvey was an empty vessel. 

In fairness, that draft was a desert after him.  A remarkable absence of talent. 

Weis was drafted by Affirmative Ed Tapscott, a bum's bum, who was put off by how street Ron Artest was.  Also, he was on his way out the door, so not beyond the realm of reason that he fucked the Knicks as a parting gift. 

Of course, poor Weis...douche nozzle Van Gundy punked and demeaned him, and they were experimenting with new rules & new refs in summer league, so Weis absorbed an orgy of foul calls, had what little confidence he possessed beaten out of him, and the rest is history. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 07:03:25 PM
No

Not what happened - and yeah, I mentioned Layden didnt make the Weis pick -but thanks for filling the third graders in on who did

They trusted Ed and he liked Weis

Fred was a bit of a tin man - and preferred Europe

Likely an agent that convinced him to enter the draft.  Our loss.  FRED needed a role model stateside. None forthcame.  But you are right - we embarassed him by letting him be a foul machine in summer league

Again - not winning anything at that time anyway And RonRon was no guarantee to own NY

SWEETNEY was the killah.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 18, 2018, 09:20:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 18, 2018, 09:26:24 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers

Facts.
Title: Facts?
Post by: carlos123 on September 18, 2018, 10:47:18 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers

Facts.

Not so fast.

chiico has his alternative facts.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:06:53 PM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon


were the killers

Like I said - team wasnt any good - didnt matter
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 18, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:36:54 AM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:38:31 AM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon
were the killers

Like I said - team wasnt any good - didnt matter

So Layden decided to continue the trend.
Those contracts clogged us up.

Giving large and long contracts to UTA role players ...
Not good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:59:45 AM
My past laughs at the Forum:

- when some folks were turning in their Jr. Knick badges because Mozguy was tossed into the Melo trade.

- when some folks were going to stop being Knick fans because Knix let Jeremy Lin go instead of matching HOU's overpay.  As expected, Lin has been a solid backup PG, nothing more.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 19, 2018, 03:03:47 AM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.

Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Good landing spot for Jarrett.

Happy for JJ.

A Pro's Pro.

Excellent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 04:45:27 AM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.
Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Oh, I don't think Jack will steal another starting PG job ...
But he is capable of stealing Elfrid's lunch.

JRue is best when he can play as a combo guard.
Lets him focus on scoring and saves energy for his very good defense.
He's less comfortable playing fulltime traditional PG.
But JRue needs to stay healthy.
Having Elfrid and Jack lets him keep his minutes/effort in check somewhat.  So much for Frank Jax.

Otherwise, I like DeAndre Liggins defense.
he's a bit too aggressive and foul prone.
But if he can amp down a little, he really gets at players.
Didn't realize he's 30 already.
Seems he still needs to slow down a little on both ends.

So a bench of Randle - Darius Miller - Ian Clark/Liggins - Elfrid/Jack
Ajinca and Okafors as backup Bigs.
(assuming Sol Hill starts and Randle rampages on the 2nd unit)

If JRue and AD stay healthy.
Mirotic and ETwuan bomb away.
They could be in contention for the 5-7 seed.
Though I'd expect them more around 8th.
Maybe Gentry can put it together for them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:01:13 AM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.

Telfair never got the opportunity.

And was never in Stephon's class as an athlete.  Some similarities - but one had star quality, surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
Shandon Anderson
Howard Eisley
Clarence Weatherspoon
were the killers

Like I said - team wasnt any good - didnt matter

So Layden decided to continue the trend.
Those contracts clogged us up.

Giving large and long contracts to UTA role players ...
Not good.

Yeah, no tear down. 

Like many before him, winning the most games THAT year was the quest.

Those guys (ShanAn, Clarence, Howard) werent stars - but werent meant to be.  I think you insult their drive and professionalism here.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:11:27 AM
Pelicans sign Jarrett Jack.
Fans seem happy.  Some say Jrue can play some 2 guard.

Oh, I don't think Jack will steal another starting PG job ...
But he is capable of stealing Elfrid's lunch.

JRue is best when he can play as a combo guard.
Lets him focus on scoring and saves energy for his very good defense.
He's less comfortable playing fulltime traditional PG.
But JRue needs to stay healthy.
Having Elfrid and Jack lets him keep his minutes/effort in check somewhat.  So much for Frank Jax.

Otherwise, I like DeAndre Liggins defense.
he's a bit too aggressive and foul prone.
But if he can amp down a little, he really gets at players.
Didn't realize he's 30 already.
Seems he still needs to slow down a little on both ends.

So a bench of Randle - Darius Miller - Ian Clark/Liggins - Elfrid/Jack
Ajinca and Okafors as backup Bigs.
(assuming Sol Hill starts and Randle rampages on the 2nd unit)

If JRue and AD stay healthy.
Mirotic and ETwuan bomb away.
They could be in contention for the 5-7 seed.
Though I'd expect them more around 8th.
Maybe Gentry can put it together for them.

Certainlya  fun team to watch

Thought I saw Liggins was released.  More could be forthcoming.    Jack signing could foreshadow a Payton deal. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:07:32 AM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.

Telfair never got the opportunity.

And was never in Stephon's class as an athlete.  Some similarities - but one had star quality, surely.

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 

PS: We now begin the countdown for Jimmer Fredette's inevitable return to the NBA, and your spin thereof. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 19, 2018, 10:22:11 AM
I still laugh my ass off at all you Marbury lovers

Says the Telfair promoter.

never liked anything about either of them.

And besides their questionable attitudes and styles of play, neither seemed like they could handle being in NYC around their homies.

Telfair never got the opportunity.

And was never in Stephon's class as an athlete.  Some similarities - but one had star quality, surely.

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 

PS: We now begin the countdown for Jimmer Fredette's inevitable return to the NBA, and your spin thereof.
If I knew how to post clapping hands or a thumbs-up, I'd do that here.       
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 12:30:07 PM
Yeah, seems Liggins was waived.


Telfair averaged 35 starts his first 5 seasons.
He was MINNy's starting PG for 2 seasons.

Couldn't shoot straight.
Career 39% FG and didn't have a reliable 3 point shot.

The sad thing is he couldn't even manage to be a reliable long-term backup PG, which he should have had enough skill for.
Some injuries and likely not enough hard work.
8 teams in parts of 10 seasons.
Out of the league at age 27.
But that's what happens when you can't shoot or defend.

What I found frustrating is that he had a good handle and was super-quick.  So he could get almost anywhere he wanted.  But then too often would stop, pause, and let the defense recover.
Didn't make quick passes, was reluctant to shoot, and rarely attacked the rim. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on September 19, 2018, 01:13:00 PM
Don't give up on the guy. He may still be "continuing to blossom."
Title: Brandon Jennings
Post by: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:41:13 PM
Brandon Jennings had the career telfair could have had.
Title: Re: Brandon Jennings
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 01:49:36 PM
Brandon Jennings had the career telfair could have had.

Except Brandon didn't get busted on weapons possession charges.

Lack of ambition, perhaps? 
Title: Jimmy Butler asks for a trade
Post by: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:52:51 PM
Yesterday none of you wanted him if picks were involved.


Now he has a short list of 3 teams supposedly.


Are you still willing to be patient?
Title: Re: Jimmy Butler asks for a trade
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 01:55:12 PM
Yesterday none of you wanted him if picks were involved.


Now he has a short list of 3 teams supposedly.


Are you still willing to be patient?

FUCK YES. 

By all means, let's trade draft picks for a man on an ending contract. 

DUH. 

PS: He his willing to extend, right.  Well, bully for him.  He's upset with Towns and Wiggins?  By all means, let's bring him on to get pissed off at our young players.  PASS. 
Title: Me
Post by: Kam on September 19, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
An ending contract -- no this is the Melo situation... he can extend and several suitors want him.

I would really think about trading this years #1 for a year of Jimmy Butler if i could get Top 3 protection on the pick.
(or if i could dump salary)

With a healthy motivated Jimmy Butler and his two-way game we should have a decent shot at the 8 seed.


And we would showcase MSG as a destination for a MAX level Free Agent next summer.

KD isn't coming here.

But Irving, Butler, Porzingis is a nice big 3
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on September 19, 2018, 02:45:06 PM
Come here, Jimmy, we want ya!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 02:56:05 PM
Didn't Butler butt heads with everyone in CHI?
Had trouble taking on a leadership role.
Terrific player, but did his head overinflate?

I'd definitely talk to KZ on his opinion of Butler.

If Butler can you get you Kyrie, well then you do what you gotta do.
I'm not a Kyrie fan, but he is an impressive offensive talent.  And we need a PG.

If suddenly you can start: Kyrie - Tim Jr - Butler - Knox - KZ
well, then you have a genuine team.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 19, 2018, 02:58:24 PM
Avery Bradley plus Wes Johnson or Teodosic make a salary match w the Clips, who can add some picks to that package. Avery’s next year is a team option at under 13 million. I hope it goes that way. I don’t think Brooklyn or Miami have anything that good to offer. I’d prefer that we stay out of it at this point.
Title: Re: Me
Post by: carlos123 on September 19, 2018, 03:35:33 PM
An ending contract -- no this is the Melo situation... he can extend and several suitors want him.

I would really think about trading this years #1 for a year of Jimmy Butler if i could get Top 3 protection on the pick.
(or if i could dump salary)

With a healthy motivated Jimmy Butler and his two-way game we should have a decent shot at the 8 seed.


And we would showcase MSG as a destination for a MAX level Free Agent next summer.

KD isn't coming here.

But Irving, Butler, Porzingis is a nice big 3

We’re talking with Laydumb here... How ‘bout Noah for Jimmy AND their No. 1 pick?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on September 19, 2018, 05:12:50 PM
OK Phil and the triangle brain thrust have left the Garden, time to cut ties with the defensive specialists and just plain bad shooters. Franky and Lance starting? Nobody will mix these two with Mike or Kobe.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: MrUtley3 on September 19, 2018, 05:24:14 PM
Any reason Cuban didn't get suspended?

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1358207002 (https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1358207002)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 19, 2018, 06:02:42 PM
CBSports deal:
Quote
Timberwolves receive: Tim Hardaway Jr., Lance Thomas, New York's 2019 first-round pick

Knicks receive: Jimmy Butler

I'm on board.
Ditch Tim and his contract.
Protect the pick Top 3 or whatever.

Investigate Butler's attitude issues.
Run it by KZ.

Butler- KZ - Knox makes the Knix relevant.
Then search for a starting PG.

The other alternative is make this a complete developmental year and worry about getting a star in FA next Summer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:50:04 PM

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 



In New York, no - no opportunity for Sebastian.

I dont recall ST having a  questionable attitude - but maybe you can link to some evidence.

I think he had a good enough career.   No shame in being a ten year NBA guy, eh, Shaman?
Title: Re: Jimmy Butler asks for a trade
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:57:19 PM
Yesterday none of you wanted him if picks were involved.


Now he has a short list of 3 teams supposedly.


Are you still willing to be patient?

FUCK YES. 

By all means, let's trade draft picks for a man on an ending contract. 

DUH. 

PS: He his willing to extend, right.  Well, bully for him.  He's upset with Towns and Wiggins?  By all means, let's bring him on to get pissed off at our young players.  PASS.

Sounds like Shaman refuses to trust current management.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 06:59:26 PM
"Run it by KZ...."

Screw that.  Kristaps and his brother dont run this ship.
Title: Re: Me
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 07:19:06 PM
An ending contract -- no this is the Melo situation... he can extend and several suitors want him.

I would really think about trading this years #1 for a year of Jimmy Butler if i could get Top 3 protection on the pick.
(or if i could dump salary)

With a healthy motivated Jimmy Butler and his two-way game we should have a decent shot at the 8 seed.


And we would showcase MSG as a destination for a MAX level Free Agent next summer.

KD isn't coming here.

But Irving, Butler, Porzingis is a nice big 3

You are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Getting Butler here now IS the best way to get him for '19-'20 and beyond.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 07:32:16 PM

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 



In New York, no - no opportunity for Sebastian.

I dont recall ST having a  questionable attitude - but maybe you can link to some evidence.

I think he had a good enough career.   No shame in being a ten year NBA guy, eh, Shaman?

Perhaps getting busted with loaded weapons in his car. 

Which, as I recall, punched his ticket out of Boston. 
Title: Minority Report
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 08:15:11 PM
Jimmy Butler. 

What is it with Knicks fans?

No functioning retentive memory engrams? 

FIRST ATTRACTIVE SET OF TITS TO AMBLE DOWN THE STREET AND BINGO, YOU RIP OFF THE WEDDING BAND, TOSS YOUR WIFE INTO THE GUTTER, AND SWEAR FEALTY TO THE LATEST BIG NAME SAVIOR. 

I like everything about Butler's body, his body of work. 

He is a fierce competitor, good defender, gets to the line and shoots a high percentage, an authentic inside/outside game, will get you 20-5-4 night in an night out. 

So why am I resistant. 

He just turned 29, and wants a max contract. 

Okay. 

Now Kiid can explain to me why it makes sense and why this is not MELO 2.0

Minny not giving him the max this past summer is what apparently triggered his disdain for the franchise. 

I do not like the idea of cashing in assets, most significantly, #1 picks. 

I do not like the idea of repeating the MELO 2.0 template where we commit the lion's share of our cap space to a contract that carries him well into his mid-30s. 

I do not like the idea of changing horses in mid-stream, and basically contradicting all of the moves we made over the summer to make a mercenary our bell cow. 

Kiid is right about one thing.  A sign-and-trade right now is probably the best chance of getting him to the Knicks. 

Would I trade Hardaway-Noah and a lottery protected #1 for Butler?

Sigh.

Probably.  No...definitely. 

Would Scott Layden accept such an offer. 

I seriously doubt it. 

It would take a significantly more tasty package to gather Jimmy Butler into the fold. 

We have been down this road before. 

We are still recovering from INSTANT GRATIFICATION SYNDROME. 

I am most def prepared to follow the process through, and redefine our culture.  Free agents are not the be all and end all. 

Took Danny Ainge, what, a good four years to double down on free agents.  But first he let Stevens develop his culture, develop his youth, develop a winning template.  THEN AND ONLY THEN, did he go the free agent route. 

I recognize that I am in the minority here. 

So be it. 

I love Jimmy Butler's game and his competitive edge. 

But he WANTS THINGS HIS WAY, not the least of which is 40 Million per when he is 34. 

Let Coach Fizdale develop his own guys.  I do not wish to gift him a coach-breaker who wants things done his way. 

I mean, Butler cannot abide Coach Thibs, who helped make him the player he is, in Chicago. 

Butler cannot abide Towns & Wiggins, two of the more gifted young players, who are still going and growing through their evolution. 

AND THIS IS THE MOTHERFUCKER YOU WANT TO HAND THE KEYS TO THE FRANCHISE WITH ALL OF OUR KIDS? 

No Sale. 

Stay the course.  Get another talent with our #1 pick in 2019, and if a free agent is to be had, terrific.  If not, 2020. 

Meanwhile, let's see what we have, and how Fizdale's developmental chops can nurture what we have and put a positive stamp on the evolution of this franchise. 

No More Wire Hangers. 

Excuse Me.

No more quick fixes and instant fucking gratification. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:24:46 PM

Sigh

More shameless revisionist bullshit. 

Now he "didn't get the opportunity."

He got EVERY OPPORTUNITY. 

Averaged 21.5 minutes in 564 games over ten seasons. 

Everyone on this forum has a functioning memory.  So best of luck in rewriting your well-documented assertions. 



In New York, no - no opportunity for Sebastian.

I dont recall ST having a  questionable attitude - but maybe you can link to some evidence.

I think he had a good enough career.   No shame in being a ten year NBA guy, eh, Shaman?

Perhaps getting busted with loaded weapons in his car. 

Which, as I recall, punched his ticket out of Boston.

You may not have been a player or coach - but when you say "bad attitude" with a player it means ON THE COURT.

No sign ever that Bassie was a bad teammate.
Title: Re: Minority Report
Post by: lesterdog on September 19, 2018, 09:27:19 PM

Now Kiid can explain to me why it makes sense and why this is not MELO 2.0


Well, I'll try, for starters the guy plays some pretty good D; for seconds, the price will be presumably be reasonable — Hardaway say, and a pick with some limited protection, not a christmas-buttload of assets (Mozgov alone ended up returning 2 #1s for the recipient) — not quite mortgaging the future; and for dessert, as Kiid notes, getting him here now is the best way if you want him. Now if you don't want him at all, that's another story....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 09:36:09 PM
Kiiid never said he favored a Butler trade.

But I am for getting better. 

Thibs isnt selling cheap, having given up Dunn and LaVine plus the pick that became Markaanen - and with a team poised to make a top 4 West run.
Title: Re: Minority Report
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 09:54:23 PM

Now Kiid can explain to me why it makes sense and why this is not MELO 2.0


Well, I'll try, for starters the guy plays some pretty good D; for seconds, the price will be presumably be reasonable — Hardaway say, and a pick with some limited protection, not a christmas-buttload of assets (Mozgov alone ended up returning 2 #1s for the recipient) — not quite mortgaging the future; and for dessert, as Kiid notes, getting him here now is the best way if you want him. Now if you don't want him at all, that's another story....

Hardaway and a protected #1?

You bet.

Why not? 

Toss in Lee. 

Butler becomes our starting SG and fills in at SF behind Knox. 

What's not to like?

Easy.

Thibs.

"Fuck YOU."

Close quotes. 

NO DEAL, compadre...

I'll wait until next summer.  If Jimmy is still out there, we can talk then. 

Gladly. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:01:35 PM
Pay attention

Butler may very well be traded NOW.  These things tend to happen when the player really wants it

AND - the team he goes to can offer 50 mil more than the Knicks, if we do not do a deal now.

So...........

quite unlikely we sign Butler as a FA
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:06:10 PM
Butler to the Clippers

for 

Bradley
Scott
Evans
- picks
Title: So It Goes...
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:12:51 PM
(https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1420796803ra/13265602.gif)

But If You Try Sometimes...

(http://img.picturequotes.com/2/167/166295/you-cant-always-get-what-you-want-but-if-you-try-sometimes-you-might-find-you-get-what-you-need-quote-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:16:30 PM
Butler to the Clippers

for 

Bradley
Scott
Evans
- picks

Numbers work...

Still, pretty weak offer.

Does not get it done. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:20:48 PM
This is how the NBA differs from MLB

You can increase your odds of getting a free agent under NBA rules.

If you like this player you should be happy if Scott Perry makes his move now.

a)  we will be better

b)  we will stay better, maybe much much better and soon.

If Perry and Mills take a shot and it fails, so be it.

(likely Ntilikina is a good fit for them)

Lee, Dotson, Ntilikina...........

Title: Nyets
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:28:18 PM
Just for giggles. 

Offer them...

D'Angelo Russell

And a choice of either DeMare Carroll or Kenneth Faried...both ending contracts.  Players ready to compete and D up for Thibs. 

A lottery protected #1.  And their #2. 

For the Nyets, an opportunity to go all in.  And possibly get Kyrie. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:32:14 PM
Russell will cost Wolves more than Bradley next year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 19, 2018, 10:37:58 PM
This is how the NBA differs from MLB

You can increase your odds of getting a free agent under NBA rules.

If you like this player you should be happy if Scott Perry makes his move now.

a)  we will be better

b)  we will stay better, maybe much much better and soon.

If Perry and Mills take a shot and it fails, so be it.

(likely Ntilikina is a good fit for them)

Lee, Dotson, Ntilikina...........

Straight up?

No #1?

Numbers work. 

HATE TO GIVE UP ON FRANK, but got to give to get, and he could be an ideal long term piece for Thibs, who loves him some D. 

Pieces that would contribute right away.  And long term. 

Hard to see Thibs doing it without a #1. 

Hard to see Perry giving them FRANK & A #1. 

Hard to see Perry giving them Frank.  PERIOD. 

But straight up, your fantasy?  Sure thing. 

Only thing, this presupposed Knox at PF and Butler at SF and Timmy at SG. 

I believe the Knicks project Knox as a SF.  PF?  Further down the road.  Not strong enough yet. 

And KP as a PF.  Center further down the road.  Not strong enough yet.  Plus there is this Kanter fellow. 

Still...

Kanter-Knox-Butler-Hardaway-Burke nice resonance. 

With KP and [?] Irving in 2019?

A reasonable fantasy save for how Minny will never do it without our #1. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 19, 2018, 10:40:33 PM
"Numbers work"

You keep saying that

Usually check beforehand - that's the process.

Yeah, picks are always part of a deal for a star.  Thats what the ...... is
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 02:20:04 AM
I remember seeing Jimmy Butler in his rook year come in early 4Q in some random game.  And thinking Whoa, look at that guy.  Physical, tough, played hard, good athleticism.  Didn't do anything outstanding, but sure looked the part of a good NBA player.  I tucked the thought away, considering that maybe he played sparingly because he was an athlete without much feel for the game.

2nd year broke through.
3rd year some struggles as a high minute starter.
4th year = stud.

It certainly would have been a no-brainer to trade for Butler 2 years ago.  Now, you'll get him from 29-34 at big money.
And likely Knix not ready to compete his first two, key prime years.
So the timing isn't exactly perfect.
And his attitude is an issue these days as well.

But the mofo can play.
Probably a Top 5, certainly Top 10, two-way player.

I'd talk to KZ, because if you bring in Butler, it becomes Butler's team, especially since KZ will miss half the year.  And you've got a 1st year coach, and lots of impressionable yute, and you don't want power struggles and conflict.  Especially because you need Butler to re-sign.  You bring Butler in and he wields the power.  Is it possible to do an extend-and-trade?  Or is that no longer an option, or won't give Butler a big enough cash in?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 20, 2018, 02:29:07 AM
Avery Bradley will remain better than D’’Angelo Russell for the rest of his career.

Butler to the Clips seems most likely. The Nets don’t have the assets to outbid them
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 04:08:42 AM
CBSports has the Knix starting 5 ranked as the worst in the Association:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-every-nba-starting-lineup-for-opening-night-warriors-lead-way-how-do-lebron-james-lakers-stack-up/

Of course, Knox may start.  Or even Mario.
With Fizz on record not fond of starting two SG's on the wing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 07:53:52 AM
CBSports has the Knix starting 5 ranked as the worst in the Association:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ranking-every-nba-starting-lineup-for-opening-night-warriors-lead-way-how-do-lebron-james-lakers-stack-up/

Of course, Knox may start.  Or even Mario.
With Fizz on record not fond of starting two SG's on the wing.

Funny. 

Slotting in Lee & Thomas as starting front line. 

As you point out, goes against everything Fizdale has been espousing. 

Still, would expect Lance so see serious minutes off the bench at both SF and PF. 

Question...what role does Lee play if he remains a Knick? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 08:10:32 AM
Lance has to play well to see time.

Is hard nosed defending enough to get him 20-25 minutes a night?

It would be different if he was a LOCKDOWN guy.

I see the Knicks better with Lance bolted to the pine.  JUICE it up.  Give me 5 guys who can score.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 20, 2018, 11:11:31 AM
I see Lance as more of a 10-15 min guy.
Maybe more some nights when Knox or Mario aren't right.
I don't see him as guy we are relying on.
Except to steady the bench and give effort and take a 3 now and then when open.


I'd be calling rook GM Elton Brand and inquiring about Fultz.
Too bad we don't have a decent vet PG to offer.


Emeka Oka4 dropped by NOPe.
Not surprising.
Gave them solid limited minute effort last year.
Title: Heh
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 02:05:27 PM
New coach David Fizdale seemed on board with not making any big splash before free agency. “We want to build it from the ground up culturally, through the draft, like Steve is talking about. We don’t want to jump at the shiny things,” Fizdale said. “We want to make solid decisions and be patient with this process. I’m a big part of that process. If I get rattled or start trying to nudge these guys, I’m too big a chunk to be disrupting this process. I’m locked into developing these kids and pouring in everything that I have into that right now.”
Title: Re: Minority Report
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:37:52 PM
Jimmy Butler. 

What is it with Knicks fans?


FIRST ATTRACTIVE SET OF TITS TO AMBLE DOWN THE STREET AND BINGO, YOU RIP OFF THE WEDDING BAND, TOSS YOUR WIFE INTO THE GUTTER, AND SWEAR FEALTY TO THE LATEST BIG NAME SAVIOR. 


I do this trade with the insight that Butler and Irving are angling to play together in 19-20.

Not just Tits. 
Title: Re: Nyets
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:43:03 PM
Just for giggles. 

Offer them...

D'Angelo Russell

And a choice of either DeMare Carroll or Kenneth Faried...both ending contracts.  Players ready to compete and D up for Thibs. 

A lottery protected #1.  And their #2. 

For the Nyets, an opportunity to go all in.  And possibly get Kyrie.

If he goes to the Nets Irving will follow.

That's why this is important to get done if you don't want a repeat of the early 2000s nets teams.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 02:55:17 PM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
The worry of not dealing for Butler and thus luring Irving is that even with room for 2 contracts there is no guarantee stars will come.

But you cant play the game (business of the NBA) scraed.  If it is DURANT you covet,then DURANT is who you go after

I think in Fizdale's vocabulary, "be patient, dont chase the shiny things" = "lets wait for the BIGGER prize".
Title: Nothing Is Written
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:12:59 PM
Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche? 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:19:41 PM
The worry of not dealing for Butler and thus luring Irving is that even with room for 2 contracts there is no guarantee stars will come.

But you cant play the game (business of the NBA) scraed.  If it is DURANT you covet,then DURANT is who you go after

I think in Fizdale's vocabulary, "be patient, dont chase the shiny things" = "lets wait for the BIGGER prize".

Durant only wants things easy.  Why would he ever come to NYC?  He is too thin-skinned.
Title: Re: Nothing Is Written
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:23:04 PM
Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche?

Apples, Oranges, and Watermelons.

Think about the human being that Jimmy Butler is. 

Went from homeless to the NBA.

Think about the human beings that Curry (irresponsible with weight) Marbury (eats vaseline live) were.

Carmelo was a lot better investment than either of those guys were.
Title: Re: Nothing Is Written
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:24:32 PM
Yes, the bold moves. 

The bold moves that define a franchise. 

Eddy Curry

Stephon Marbury

Carmelo Anthony

BE Scared.  BE VERY SCARED.

Maybe we should try another approach, capiche?

Apples, Oranges, and Watermelons.

Think about the human being that Jimmy Butler is. 

Went from homeless to the NBA.

Think about the human beings that Curry (irresponsible with weight) Marbury (eats vaseline live) were.

Carmelo was a lot better investment than either of those guys were.

Watermelons

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/71699d5035aaae27c076cfd78064ff34/tenor.gif?itemid=5571366)

Pass
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:29:16 PM
If you invest in people you don't pass on Jimmy Butler.

You want his blueprint on your team.

Whats going down in Minny says more about Andrew Wiggins than Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:41:59 PM
Carmelo was a better investment. 

[COUGH]

Yes.  The benefits continue to accrue. 

Lordy. 

Knicks fans want the big tits and the quick fixes. 

Danny Ainge & Brad Stevens

25-57

40-42

48-34

53-29

55-27

Draft and trades. 

Patient.  Calculated.  PATIENT.  Built A System.  Built A Culture. 

First big free agent signing?

Season Four. 

4

Al Horford.  Right player.  Right time.  Right fit. 

Season Five.  Gordon Hayward.  Kyrie Irving Trade. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  Wonderful PLAYER. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  MOOT POINT.  Thibs ain't entertaining any of the bullshit "fans" and "media" are floating. 

Again.  Jimmy Butler.  FIRST YOU ESTABLISH A CULTURE.  A WINNING CULTURE.  A SUSTAINABLE CULTURE.  Then you plug in talent via the free agent market. 

The Carmelo Anthony Trade set back this franchise a decade. 

A great scorer.  Without a doubt. 

But the money we spent, and the draft picks we surrendered, left us with no room for prime free agents, nor for an infusion of youth, nor for complementary pieces, such as, oh,  A POINT GUARD. 

And of course, as a preamble to the Carmelo, we must get Carmelo feeding frenzy, because CARMELO WANTED A MAX, and we were unwilling to risk free agency or him ending up with the Nyets (gee, that argument has a familiar ring), we gutted our roster, having already gutted our roster in a pyrrhic pursuit of LeBron, thanks to kindly Uncle Donnie, pausing only to pass on all of the available point guards only to draft Jordan Hill (CUE Kiid, Stage Left, with passionate defense of an underrated player, no longer in the league). 

So.

In answer to your query, Brother Kam.

If Butler is available next summer?  You bet.  Let's talk. 

But a panic move now, passing as a foundational move, when we have seen this approach blow up in our fucking faces time and time and time again? 

NO
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?
Title: Big Trades
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:49:15 PM
Walt Bellamy & Howie Komives

We gave up a Hall Of Fame Center and our starting point guard. 

Serious assets. 

HOWEVER...

We had established a positive culture. 

Trading Walt opened up the 5-spot for Willis. 

Trading Komives opened up the point for Clyde. 

Dave DeB moved in to the 4-spot, in an established system, where a chemistry had been established, young talent nurtured and evolved. 

Results?

Two championships. 

GROW UP KNICKS FANS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 03:51:02 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

(https://media.giphy.com/media/11xl9RRxvAtrCE/giphy.gif)

PS: What assets did the Lakers give up to grab LeBron?  ANSWER: None, oh, save for some players they didn't reup to create cap space, such as Randle.  Did they gut their team to trade for LeBron, OR DID THEY FUCKING WAIT UNTIL HE WAS FUCKING AVAILABLE WITHOUT SURRENDERING ANY ASSETS.  Kiid is comfortable giving up Frank in a trade.  If I ask the same of Lonzo Ball, Kiid will caution me that they are levels apart.  Okay.  Still, be that as it may, hierarchies being what they are, Lonzo is a foundational piece.  We will find out soon if Frank is a foundational piece.  BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 20, 2018, 06:58:42 PM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."

i get your point KAM.  only problem is how do you know if one leads to another?  you can't.

I'll take my chances on another lottery pick and see who wants to join the party next year.

until KP is here and fully healthy we are sort of shooting in the dark IMO>
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 07:52:33 PM
butler is close to being on the wrong side of 30.

5 years?  what will a 34 year old butler look like?

pass on a deal.

free agent is one thing.  trade?  no .

What if...

Butler assures you Irving.

Still no?

"Nothing is written..."

i get your point KAM.  only problem is how do you know if one leads to another?  you can't.

I'll take my chances on another lottery pick and see who wants to join the party next year.

until KP is here and fully healthy we are sort of shooting in the dark IMO>

Nagel cautioning forbearance. 

Film at 11. 

And I know Kiid will go into MOCK OVERDRIVE, but guess what.  This is Kristaps Porzingis' Team. 

Phil Jackson?

GONE.

Carmelo Anthony?

GONE.

Jeff Hornacek?

GONE. 

Frank Ntilikina?  Kevin Knox? 

On Board. 

Again, no one is turning their noses up at Jimmy Butler. 

But this is Kristaps Porzingis team.  He is our bell cow.  When he and Hardaway were grooving last fall, we were in the running for the playoffs.  When they were out, lottery here we come. 

Regarding free agents? 

How many times in the past twenty years have we been left at the altar by free agents, or had our free agent saviors blow up in our face. 

We gutted our team to make a run at LeBron.  We gutted our team to accommodate Carmelo. 

We are now at ground zero with an ACTUAL REBUILD & COMMITTMENT TO YOUTH. 

You have to go back to the 1960s to see the Knicks bottoming out, and rebuilding with YOUTH, in the person of Bill Bradley, Cazzie Russell, Phil Jackson, Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Dave Stallworth, Mike Riordan. 

Whether you think KP is the second coming or a REACH--a projection of our hopes and prayers--he remains the most impactful player on this roster. 

It is in the Knicks best interest to build a roster about him, and let the youth, from elders Kanter and Hardaway, to wash out reclamation projects Burke, Mudiay, Vonleh and Hezonja, to have the opportunity to compete and make a case for themselves as KNICKS. 

It is not tanking, but not unlike the Celtics in the Stevens Era, or the Lakers under Walton, there is a willingness to TAKE YOUR LUMPS, and let your young talent play through the slaps and beat downs, learning and earning through taking their lumps...purposeful...patient...

I do not necessarily agree with Nages that we are a high lottery lock, but you never know. 

http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft)

Zion Williamson intrigues me.  A freak of nature.  Could be the second coming of Larry Johnson. 

Be that as it may, there is talent out there.  There is talent coming to training camp, and it makes more sense--TO ME ANYWAY--to allow the process to play out, for hard-nosed competition to ensue, and for the kids we have on site to feel as if they are actually competing for something, not merely as placeholders for the next big-titted free agent to excite our more impatient fans. 

Credit Fizz with being a bullshit artist if you like, but the idea that he put forth, wherein free agency doesn't mean a damn thing, unless we FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE OUR CULTURE. 

Why gut our team now to import Jimmy Butler to A LOSING TEAM.  He's on a team with the likes of TOWNS & WIGGINS, to former #1 picks, big time talents, and he was not pleased in playing WITH THEM?  Hello?  WAKE UP CALL. 

Now, just for the sake of argument.  If come the summer of 2019, KP is healthy and ready to come back strong, we have a #1 pick (possibly a significant player), and some combination of Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina, Hezonja, Vonleh, Mudiay, Burke, Kanter and Hardaway have made a case for themselves, and learned how to play OLD SCHOOL KNICK DEFENSE and learned to play an aggressive brand of offense, then we will have a much better idea of who is a keeper. 

What's more, a potential free agent such as Butler (I honestly do not see Irving leaving the Celtics) could look at a team like the Knicks and think, "Hey, the skill-set and aggression and defensive intensity and experience and competitive tenacity I bring to the party would make for a great fit...I LIKE WHAT I SEE IN THEIR KIDS."

Well, that is a horse of a different fire department.  A BELL COW who can give us big minutes at SF-SG, and A LEADER on the Knicks, and not necessarily THE LEADER.  A piece that fits.  A player who could make the likes of KP and Knox better, and vicea versa.  That makes sense. 

Looking at the free agent class for 2019, Butler, Irving and Leonard would top my wish list. 

Not sure how realistic any of them are. 

Kevin Durant.

HAHAHA

Tell me about the rabbits, George. 

Be patient Knicks fans.  This is what an actual re-build looks like. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 20, 2018, 09:16:38 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself.

Randle  - 72 in the Top 100
Nance Jr
Clarkson

Those guys are assets
Title: NO SALE
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 09:31:31 PM
It's SO not a panic move.  It's a calculated move over two seasons.

EXACTLY - by the way- what the young Lakers team did.

They got LeBron this year so they can add a guy next year. Target: KL.

Think that will work out? Good investment, no?

Knock yourself out, dude. 

BOTTOM LINE.  Your LeBron argument?  THE LAKERS DID NOT SURRENDER ASSETS, nurtured their youth, were committed to growing pains and losing thereof, and opened up cap space.  Again, I am all in for considering Butler next summer.  Much as we should've done with Melo.  So your argument turns back on itself.

Randle  - 72 in the Top 100
Nance Jr
Clarkson

Those guys are assets

EARTH TO KAM...

Randle they let walk.  Nance on a rookie deal, but Clarkson was a long term contract, with 12 million-13 million due for next two seasons.

With Ingram and Kuzma, Ball and Hart, Nance and Clarkson and Randle were utterly redundant. 

They received two expiring contracts in Channing Frye and Isaiah Thomas.  THEY LET BOTH WALK. 

They did not give up a #1 pick, they received a #1 pick, which they used to take Wagner.

Ergo, you're spinning your wheels, dude. 

Assets? 

Uh huh. 

Road Kill is more like it. 

THEY GOT LEBRON WITHOUT GIVING UP ANYTHING. 

Let alone a #1 Pick.  Let alone Frank Ntiliknia, Lonzo Ball.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 20, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.
Title: Comic Relief
Post by: chipstern on September 20, 2018, 10:31:49 PM
heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.

Shitting Laker Purple, ain't you Urkel?

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_BS7A65W2zQ/WAyGMn6Zk2I/AAAAAAAAFJg/pe08nljYStwtkx5h-eGU0gNDmiF0KMEyQCLcB/s1600/rosemary.gif) 

Oh, the horror.  To be castigated by the Prophet Kiid.

As I understand your reasoned argument, the Celtics took that overrated Tatum and a #1 draft pick, instead of simply choosing the generational Lonzo Ball--spiritual successor to Sebastin Telfair and Jimmer Fredette, in your smug estimation.

And after a season of pissing on Jayson, when the evidence of his talent and maturity was overwhelming, you tried to claim you'd not been dumping on him. 

I'll leave it to Bankshot to bear witness to your Toadstill Dick on that one. 

And Boston ain't won shit. 

So, if you don't win the championship, you ain't shit?

Point taken. 

Finally, you assume, based on ZERO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, that Kyrie Irving is leaving the Celtics. 

(https://i.gifer.com/SEPo.gif)

Verily, you are the King Of Comedy. 

What is the sound of one hand clapping? 

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/013/974/clap.gif)
Title: Reality Check
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2018, 04:43:20 AM
But multiple league sources told SNY.tv that Tom Thibodeau, Minnesota’s President and head coach, will want more than the Knicks can realistically offer. “Not enough for Minny,” one NBA executive said. “Tibs wants to win now.”  –  via SportsNet New York

“I think Jimmy does not see a future in Minny and is not real excited to finish his career playing alongside KAT and Wiggins,” the NBA executive said. “It’s all about Jimmy,” the executive added. “He is looking to get paid and to be the man.”  –  via SportsNet New York

Darren Wolfson: One Eastern Conference FO exec. today via text: “We watch with great interest but ultimately it comes down to not effing up the future – at what cost is it worth it?” #Twolves –  via Twitter DWolfsonKSTP
Title: Re: Comic Relief
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 08:55:21 AM
heh

Anyone else tired of Shaman and his Celtics fixation?

They did it that way so we have to

Did what?  Exactly - aint won shit.  And about to lose their lead guard after passing on a generational one in the draft

heh, indeed.

But keep shittin green, Shaman.

Shitting Laker Purple, ain't you Urkel?


I understand why LeBron is there but preferred they rocked without him.  Will certainly watch the Lakers plenty this year.

I havent applauded nor have I criticized their process. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:00:18 AM
By tghe way - interesting thought brought up today pertaining to Chip's Celtics - on the best show in sports radio (Sirrius NBA with Isola and Scalabrine)

Would Boston cash in some youth to get Butler - as a means to having Irving stay in town?

The idea was eventually shot down......but food for thought since it would be alomng the lines of what Thibs seeks (start with Rozier, for instance, since Brown is likely a non-starter to the conversation)

Could the money even match (19 mil from Celts to Wolves)?  Don't know.  Some of these teams dont have the mid salaried players that work good as filler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:09:47 AM
By the way, re:  Kam's point on Randle, Clarkson and Nance - Lakers certainly hated giving up all three.  Have to give them some credit - it was "LBJ all the way" - and "how do we get there, however painful?"

In time - if Lakers do not win - from that perspective only (we know the business end will be properous with LeBron there) - you will have to ask the question - may we have been better off not jettisoning all three of those guys?

All three by the way (Randle, Nanc and Clarkson) are examples of how misguided fans of the league errantly demean players because their team is not winning.  Consistently winning in the league is about chemistry, coaching and getting that last leg over the hump - not just assembling talent.  A guy like Hardaway could seem like a real prize to a 50+ win Knicks team down the line - even playing in last year's state.  Look at Sprewell - looked real good on some of the better teams he played on - then was considered an OAF when Knicks werent winning.  (Insert Melo and even Marbury here if you wish).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:11:58 AM
Qucik, surprising quiz

3 of the NBA's top 5 salaried teams reside in the EASTERN conference - and 5 out of 9

Can you name (no peeking) the first three - and the next 2?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 09:39:19 AM
Morris, Baynes, Gabuscele, Rozier............

for Butler

comes close
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:09:10 AM
MIA & TOR most likely.
MIA still toting Bosh's contract I believe.
TOR has Kawhi, Lowry, Ibaka & Valanciunas all making a lot.
And they gave NormPowell a significant contract, and he's underachieve lately.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 10:11:13 AM
Per  HoopsHype

One eastern conference front office guy, on potential Butler acquisition:

"We watch with great interest but ultimately it comes down to not effing up the future - at what cost is it worth it?"

Hmmmm....

Knicks quote?  Not wanting to deal Frank and a #1?

Could be.

But that would run counter to the opinion of one analyst that "Knicks just don't  have enough to offer"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on September 21, 2018, 10:13:20 AM
Morris, Baynes, Gabuscele, Rozier............

for Butler

comes close

I'm assuming the salaries match, but I'm not looking it up as the trade is so dumb and ill-conceived conceptually it would never be seriously proposed.

Here's a hint the first part of that trade on the Celts side is the demand for Jaylen Brown. And then comes the salary matches and draft choices that Thibs would demand.

Here's the second hint, Browns not going anywhere, particularly for a guy who's 8 year older and makes several multiples of what Brown makes,  who the Celts have no need for.

Brown will likely be a player comparable to Butler in the near future, at a fraction of the cost.

Hard pass on Butler.

If the Knicks want the guy, can't see Ainge getting in the way.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:17:59 AM
WAS has their Big 3 all maxed out.  And Mahinmi making double what he's worth.  not sure if they have other big/bad contracts, but a very top heavy payroll.

GS, OKC & HOU are the West big spenders.

I know that DET has a much higher payroll than their record warrants.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 10:20:49 AM
WAS is at #5 and DET at #9.  Nicely done.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:22:36 AM
Just hit up Hoopshype.
#9 payroll = DET
#10 = MEMf
Chandler Parsons pocketing $25M -- how'd that happen?

Forgot MIA has Tyler Johnson on that ridiculous backloaded deal.
James Johnson makes $14M.  Nice hustle guy, but that's an overpay for sure.  Forgot about Waiters too.

They signed Josh Rich for 4/$40M which seems like a bargain, especially if he keeps progressing.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 21, 2018, 10:24:22 AM
I've been using hoopshype a good dela this Summer for whatever reason.
So I often see their Top 10 salary list.
MIA at #1 is a head scratcher.
But knock off Bosh and they'd just be around 10th.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 21, 2018, 11:14:01 AM
I still believe the Melo deal was the right move at the time; Mozgov's yield to a desperate David Griffin later is a valid point but I think the Knicks, with Amare in hand and the likelihood that Melo would have gone to Brooklyn meant that the alternative - proceeding with Amare plus the youth we traded - made much less sense. I've heard the arguments, I suppose you've heard mine.

I see this situation differently. Butler is older than Melo was, and the core is younger. There is no win-now imperative that an Amare-type player might compel. The upcoming free agency the next two years is more favourable to NY than what Donnie faced. The draft, which meant little to the Knicks the year Amare had them flirting with the playoffs pre-Melo, means so much this year.

I think this Knicks team has the chance to do something special - 25 wins. If Kanter or Hardaway miss time before Christmas, then Porzingis' arrival may well be delayed until after the ASB. Then we might be in the mix for something even more special - under 20 wins. Add any of RJ (be still my heart), Little, Zion, Reddish or even Langford to the core of KP/Knox/Frank/TimJr, and our core becomes legitimately exciting. Plus we'd have one max spot this summer or two the following summer.

The big play I'd look isn't cashing chips in for Butler but rather trying to move Courtney Lee to Philly for Jerryd Bayless (expiring) and TimJr to Sacto for expirings (they have loads of flexibility) or to Dallas for Wessy Wes (expiring); I'd be willing to sacrifice either Burke or Mudiay to do it, but not picks. Those two moves would give us enough cap space for two max spots and still be in a position to resign either Hezonja or potentially even Kanter (as well as possibly Vonleh or Burke or Mudiay). We'd be one of the three worst teams in the league, yes, but with the payoff of lots of time for the kids and the belief that the rebuild would be expedited this summer, once we add a top-5 or so pick and, potentially, two stars. If the Fizdale aura is real, I could see Kyrie/Butler being in play. Hell, if we get Barrett or Little, I could see Kyrie/Durant being in play. We wouldn't be a team that looked like it was going to lose forever.

And, again, if they didn't come, we'd still be in great spot. I don't see a compelling enough reason to bring in Butler now.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 11:24:07 AM
I dont fault the Knicks on Melo.  Walking away would have taken real balls.  Took too long to deal him - you could quibble.

Melo doesnt know how to lead in a losing atmosphere? (or at all, depending on who you ask)

Of course never thought we'd have to find this out.

News flash - this isnt uncommon.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
Do you think Jimmy Butler gives up 50 mil so he can play in NY with Kyrie (rather than staying in Clipperland with Kawhi)?

Strike now or no Butler, smart money says.

(not saying we should/shouldnt do it - leaving that to the execs)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 11:57:35 AM
"And again if they (BUT and KI) didnt come, we'd still be in a great spot."

Here is the rub......

Knicks will chase Durant.

All the while KI (if he hasnt already reupped with BOS) and Jimmy (if he isnt already in Clipperland with a new 5 year 191) are what - just waiting for us?

Likely not.

Decision on Butler is now, no matter how you slice it.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 12:30:47 PM
Re:  "still in a great spot"

I do sort of agree.  There are just levels

I see THJ having a pretty big year - and forming a nice returning dependable troika with KP and KK (center and PGs be damned!)

Other free agents, beyond the 3 mentioned (and Kanter)?  I guess that is the next thing to discuss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 02:00:10 PM
But.............sorry, cant let this go...

You are TURNING DOWN

(Free agent PG, Kyrie or other)
Hardaway
Butler
Knox
Porzingis

Really?





No.....

really?
Title: No...REALLY
Post by: chipstern on September 21, 2018, 02:32:55 PM
Really. 

There is NO...Zero...NO Guarantee that Irving is coming.  With or without Butler. 

Butler just hung his team out to dry. 

And that should motivate us to move heaven and Earth in to make him THE MAN on the Knicks, and that makes us a lock to get Kyrie? 

Evidence? 

Once again...

Thibs wants to win now...that is his mandate. 

That is his life/death sentence. 

His owner is beginning to get freaked.  Thibs does not have a great bedside manner. 

And the trade they made for Butler has blown up in their face. 

They basically gifted the Bulls three young starters for an uber-talented two way player, who, alas, has marked himself as a self-absorbed malcontent. 

PG: Kris Dunn
SG: Zach LaVine
PF: Lauri Markkanen

And the money they saved on Butler, they were able to spend on Jabari Parker, their new starting SF. 

And they just drafted Wendell Carter as their center of the future. 

That's five #1 picks, basically.  Three of which came the Bulls way for Butler. 

The Bulls have committed to moving on from their bell cow in favor of youth, and they are looking pretty damn good going into 2018-2019.  They have a youthful core, and a potential superstar in Markkanen.  And while Parker cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Butler, defensive-wise, he has the potential to be an offensive force.  Also, come next spring, Jabari will be 24.  Butler will be 30. 

So, we should put together an analogous package to give Mr. Butler a max deal, make him the bell cow, and leverage him to impact our chemistry, potentially blowing off our coach and dictating the future direction of this franchise. 

Really?

NO.

There is no guarantee that Butler's presence would presuppose Irving leaving the Celtics.

Nor is there any hard and fast evidence, that the lack of Butler's presence would presuppose losing Irving if he really wants to come to NYC. 

Butler is a mirage. 

Been down this road before, and what you and I think is essentially moot, because the Knicks AIN'T DOING IT. 

We have Knox and Hezonja (and Thomas) at SF-PF, we have Hardaway and Nitilkina (and for the moment, Lee and Dotson) at SG-SF. 

And like it or not, Porzingis is our bell cow.  I know you agree with Phil Jackson that we should trade him. 

Mazel Tov. 

The Knicks appear fine with their rebuild as presently constituted moving forward, the allure of this shining object and the drumbeat of fans and media notwithstanding.  I am sure they have done their due diligence, and I am just as sure Thibs has blown them off, or asked for the moon. 

While I do not necessarily share Biz's projections of us as a 20-win team, I do believe, a #1 in the summer of 2019, and room for one max contract looks fine, going forward. 

And Jimmy has said he wants to be traded before media day? 

Yup, just the kind of presence we want to define OUR FRANCHISE. 

"To dream, the impossible dream..." 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 21, 2018, 07:32:49 PM
EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 21, 2018, 11:58:57 PM
EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016)

If you ranked the EM fans on this board i'd be in last place but that video looked good, i saw a slowed-down, in control, confident Mudiay.

It may not be a sure sign of a good thing, but its not a bad thing either.

The more of these "wild card" reclamation projects we reclaim the better.  Gives us options.  Never a bad thing.  Rooting for EM.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2018, 12:07:55 AM
EM lookin good

https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016 (https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/1043279869931606016)

Watched it a couple times. It seems like videos from 2 different 3 on 3 scrimmages.  I can make out EM playing with Kanter and Ntilikina.  (Hope there were some passes from EM to Frank but i saw none) but i couldn't make out clearly who the opponents were.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2018, 12:24:36 AM
I still believe the Melo deal was the right move at the time; Mozgov's yield to a desperate David Griffin later is a valid point but I think the Knicks, with Amare in hand and the likelihood that Melo would have gone to Brooklyn meant that the alternative - proceeding with Amare plus the youth we traded - made much less sense. I've heard the arguments, I suppose you've heard mine.

I see this situation differently. Butler is older than Melo was, and the core is younger. There is no win-now imperative that an Amare-type player might compel. The upcoming free agency the next two years is more favourable to NY than what Donnie faced. The draft, which meant little to the Knicks the year Amare had them flirting with the playoffs pre-Melo, means so much this year.

I think this Knicks team has the chance to do something special - 25 wins. If Kanter or Hardaway miss time before Christmas, then Porzingis' arrival may well be delayed until after the ASB. Then we might be in the mix for something even more special - under 20 wins. Add any of RJ (be still my heart), Little, Zion, Reddish or even Langford to the core of KP/Knox/Frank/TimJr, and our core becomes legitimately exciting. Plus we'd have one max spot this summer or two the following summer.

The big play I'd look isn't cashing chips in for Butler but rather trying to move Courtney Lee to Philly for Jerryd Bayless (expiring) and TimJr to Sacto for expirings (they have loads of flexibility) or to Dallas for Wessy Wes (expiring); I'd be willing to sacrifice either Burke or Mudiay to do it, but not picks. Those two moves would give us enough cap space for two max spots and still be in a position to resign either Hezonja or potentially even Kanter (as well as possibly Vonleh or Burke or Mudiay). We'd be one of the three worst teams in the league, yes, but with the payoff of lots of time for the kids and the belief that the rebuild would be expedited this summer, once we add a top-5 or so pick and, potentially, two stars. If the Fizdale aura is real, I could see Kyrie/Butler being in play. Hell, if we get Barrett or Little, I could see Kyrie/Durant being in play. We wouldn't be a team that looked like it was going to lose forever.

And, again, if they didn't come, we'd still be in great spot. I don't see a compelling enough reason to bring in Butler now.

You make good points for staying out of the Butler-Irving -- trifecta? 

But i don't think there is any chance KD ever plays for the Knicks. 

Hope i'm wrong but just don't see him as the guy to lead us to the promised land.

Not cut out for this cloth.

Mentally.

And you can't assume we will land a top 5 pick.

We were 9 this season.  And that was with a half-season from KP.  Same as next year.

That's a lot of teams to  -- leapfrog?

So to me... if you don't do Butler now and Irving later... you won't get either

And you're never gonna get KD....

so who are you making all this cap space for??

DeMarcus Cousins?  Draymond Green?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 02:29:57 AM
Enes Kanter?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Enes Kanter?
Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 05:50:01 AM
Enes Kanter?
Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.

Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do. 
Title: Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 06:40:02 AM
Emmanuel looks like he's dropped around 20 pounds. 

Just seems leaner, quicker and more decisive.  And much better technique on his jumper. 

A good first step. 

I'm looking forward to Fizz tossing some raw meat into the compound and watching those dogs Trey, Frank and Emmanuel 'fuss 'n fight. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 22, 2018, 09:25:45 AM
Kam - I think Butler and the kiddie corps is a bad enough fit I'm ok rolling with cap space even if we don't sign an all-star.

As for no guarantee of a top-5 pick, absolutely. But I think we will trend younger this year and Porzingis will play less than last year's 48 games (and still be recovering for those games he does play). So I see better chances at a top-5 pick.



re the Butler to Minny deal, the Wolves gave up Dunn, who doesn't look to me like he'll ever be a starter on a good team; Lavine, who smart teams would have let walk rather than sign to that crazy contract; and the Markannen/Patton swap. The latter is a genuine loss, the other two not so much. They made the playoffs for the first time since Bush was president because of the deal. It isn't the disaster of a deal some are making it out to be, even after the Wolves trade Butler for less than Markannen's worth.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 22, 2018, 10:53:41 AM
I largely agree.  But if the cost of Butler is just Tim Jr., Lance and a heavily protected 1st rounder, say Top 10 this year, Top 5 next.  I'm in.
Sure I'd worry about how it affects team chemistry, and why Butler has become difficult last two teams.  And the contract re-up. 
But suddenly the Knix would have two Top 20 NBA talents, plus a potentially studly pup in Knox, and another high top 10 pick coming.
I mean that's an instant team.
And in the playoffs next year, once KZ is fully back.
Then the clear focus is on getting a quality PG.
With KZ & Butler, we'd be a viable FA destination, with Kyrie or whoever as possibilities.
Add a good PG and NYK is vying for playoff homecourt in the weakened East.



And yes, Dunn was a washout in MINN.
Zach LeV was coming off an ACL op and has been a terrible defender, and looking for a new big contract.
And a #1 pick mid-late lotto is a crapshoot.  Maark looks good. 
Fits the modern game real well, and has more toughness than you'd expect.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 01:52:49 PM
Enes Kanter?
Someone I’d happily ship out to make room for Jimmy Butler.

Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do.

Actually not the worst idea.....

I say this because it has been said that Thibs wants to compete this year - doesnt want to have a lesser chance of making the top 4-5-6 in the West by dealing JB

Kanter would surely add some - as losing Butler diminishes.  And of course you then add to that (more from NY) in picks or whatever
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 22, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
Plays PF next to Towns, right?

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 03:34:58 PM
No idea

I do know he would be one of their top 7-8 players- and that he would be productive

Sucky thing to do to Enes though - he loves NY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 03:44:30 PM
Dunn in his second year was about what some of you feel Frank can be (went from an 8 PER toa  14+)

16 games cores of 15+ - in 52 games

Trend is up.  Will it plateau?  We shall see.

I liekLavine a bit more than Biz does but he makes a good point about the comeback from in jury

THOUGH - ine NBA Radio analyst this weeks ays he expects Heyward "fully back".

Different injury, true ....... but maybe these world class athletes do get "back"so much easier than us mere mortals.

(Microfracture is the one that most guys never become what they were.  Even Daniel Murphy in MLB has had this occur)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
No idea

I do know he would be one of their top 7-8 players- and that he would be productive

Sucky thing to do to Enes though - he loves NY

Talk to your boy Layden. Tell him we’ll throw in Ron Baker to make the math work.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 22, 2018, 06:34:24 PM
Nah.  Unavailable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 22, 2018, 10:20:36 PM
Be happy I’m not putting Mudiay on the table, someone who might actually make the regular season roster and contribute to winning basketball this year.
Title: Frank is a legit 6'6" now?
Post by: Kam on September 22, 2018, 10:49:50 PM
Frank Ntilikina, PG: Has grown 1 ¹/₂ inches since last season, but Knicks still listing him at same height, perhaps by his wishes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 02:22:30 AM
Microfracture and Achilles tears.

Micro-fracture surgery means that a healing deficit already exists.  That blood flow is limited to the area that needs healing.  So you are creating a number of new small injury sites (drilled micro-holes) in order to stimulate blood flow and promote healing.  So you're already talking about not just an injury but an injury that isn't healing properly/effectively.

Not sure why Achilles can't be repaired so that they can perform close to pre-op days.  One issue in sports is that it's usually older players who blow out their Achilles (think Isaiah, Barkley, Kobe) and healing takes longer when you're older and their athleticism had already significantly declined.

Be interesting to see how Boogie comes back from his Achilles rupture. Of course he has a lot of weight to place on that.
I think there's been a few youngish guys with Achilles issues lately.  But I'm blanking on other names.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 23, 2018, 03:01:57 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251183/Thirty-Futures-Joakim-Noah (http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/251183/Thirty-Futures-Joakim-Noah)
Title: Fuck Jimmy Butler
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 03:18:35 AM
Word is that now he is going to bail on training camp. 

With a signed contract for just under $20,000,000.

A real PUNK ASS move. 

And this is the motherfucker some of you are going Cuckoo For Cocoa Puffs over. 

By all means, let's trade Kanter, Hardaway, Ntilikina and a #1 and give this singularly self-absorbed individual $40,000,000 X Five Years and make him the face of the franchise, instead of focusing on our youth and allowing The Fizz Kids To Inculcate Coach's teachings while bonding with each other and forging a foundational T-E-A-M unit. 

Fuck Jimmy Butler. 

And...oh, nevermind. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 23, 2018, 03:29:58 AM
Oh come on, Chip. Once Butler gets over this minor ripple of career turbulence I’m sure the are no possible circumstances where he would trouble management or disrupt chemistry on a team again.

We should probably mortgage our future to get him. There’s a thought.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 05:23:35 AM
Butler was part of the rift in Chicago too.
Again having to do with not getting along with younger players.
And the Knix of course are loaded with ... younger players.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 05:46:34 AM
Now the owner doesn't want Butler in training camp and wants a deal done within days.  Certainly makes it harder for MINNy to get a good return.

The smart thing would have been to tell Butler's camp to cool it, and the team will do everything to find a trade.  Just act like everything is normal until a deal is reached.

Awkward: Thibs is the decider and he wants Butler to stay.  He's been vetoed by the owner.  So Layden will likely be handling offers.
But:
Quote
“The owner’s trading him,” one Board of Governors source told ESPN. “That was made clear. It’s just a matter of when.” “He basically said, ‘If you don’t get anywhere with [Layden], and you’ve got something good, bring it to me,” another high-ranking league official told ESPN. 

So even Layden is a figurehead/frontman and can be sidestepped.

This has turned into a mess rather quickly.
Also, Towns just got a Big max extension and doesn't get along with Thibs great.
So it looks like Wolves will need a new coach and new Head GM soon enough.
I guess Layden gets a crash audition to become the Top Man.
But he could easily be out as well.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 23, 2018, 12:45:01 PM
usually the owner rules from where i come from.  if he wants Butler gone then Butler is gone.

Clippers seems like a good destination.

personally trading a #1 pick next year when despite chip's rose colored glasses and Frank is a really bad idea.

the kid is 20 years old and already shows true NBA defense.  we can't wait on him?  especially when the smart thing to do is let KP heal next year.  frankly if he gets 20 games i would be happy. that is the real reason why we are a high lottery pick.  if KP was fully healthy and here all year I would never say that.

 However he is as chip accurately says  the guy who makes NY run.  it's his team,

Jimmy Butler is 29 years old. i'm tired of giving guys that age big money when we have young talent like KP, Knox, Frank, Next year's lotto pick , Robinson and money for a younger free agent.

count me out on a deal unless it's for Hardaway straight up.  i guess that tells you how i feel about hardaway.  also allows us to get out of hardaway's deal and not sign butler next year if we choose.  giving us plenty of space next year.  now if Irving needs Butler to come ,then we have him. So a  different story.  simply for a former #1 pick (Frank) and a future #1 pick like next year .  no thank you.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 02:00:40 PM
Why do you believe your pessimistic self over what has been reported on Porzingis (re:  injury)?
Title: Re: Frank is a legit 6'6" now?
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
Frank Ntilikina, PG: Has grown 1 ¹/₂ inches since last season, but Knicks still listing him at same height, perhaps by his wishes.

Happens a lot

Antetokompo is now 7-3 1/4
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 02:04:39 PM
Oh come on, Chip. Once Butler gets over this minor ripple of career turbulence I’m sure the are no possible circumstances where he would trouble management or disrupt chemistry on a team again.

We should probably mortgage our future to get him. There’s a thought.

Come on, man - didnt you hear?  Jimmy is 29 going on 35.

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2018, 02:40:00 PM
Butler was part of the rift in Chicago too.
Again having to do with not getting along with younger ENTITLED players.
And the Knix of course are loaded with ... younger players.

Young guys who slack on defense (KAT got killed by Capella in the playoffs) aren't in favor with Butler.


Or me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 23, 2018, 02:56:10 PM
Need to learn to mentor, lead, show leadership -- not cause a huge rift in 2 different lockerrooms in successive years.
In CHI, Rondo stood up for the young pups against Butler's dismissal.

As for Towns, I remember LeBron playing chumpy D his first few years in the League.  But I think Wiggins is more the problem there.  His effort on both ends comes and goes.  At least KAT mostly dominates on O.


Coltrane Radio until the day is done:
http://wkcr.streamguys1.com/live.m3u
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 23, 2018, 03:45:22 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2018, 05:11:28 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

Maybe the roster spot is needed.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 23, 2018, 06:16:11 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

could not agree more. 
Title: Your Honor, I Rest My Case
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 07:04:57 PM
Waiving Jo No now rather than waiting to see what happens next summer sure is dumb.

THJr's contract and the Baker fiasco demonstrated Mills was in way above his head but Perry's entry gave the impression the ship had been righted
. The Fiz hire, for example, was brilliant. The Melo trade has worked out well. Burke, Knox, Big Meech Robinson - there's stuff to be pleased with. Most of all, the talk of patience in the face of a star asking to come here has been reassuring and a far cry from how many administrations past would have handled the Butler situation.

But with how Noah's deal is being handled - no financial benefit waiving him now versus next summer, but losing the potential of including him in a sign-and-trade or, worse, stretching him and not needing the extra cap space and having to live with the dead money - implies either the dead hand of Steve Mills is back at it or Perry isn't strong enough to say no or that Perry's not very savvy either.

A simplistic overreach.

A venal sin, and a minor cerebellum synapse.   

This too shall pass.  More of that anon. 

In a sense, I shared your focus on retaining Noah, not for cap/trade bait, but to mentor our young bigs and to fill in behind Kanter.  Not so much as a trade chip. 

For Mills and Perry, clearly their sense of things was that if Noah INSISTED ON PLAYING TIME, as a foundational piece for him remaining, it would be uncomfortable for ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.  As it was last season when Hornacek unduly wounded his professional pride.  Noah was ready to make a contribution. 

Not a dumb move, but one that was not limited in its focus to the Knicks needs, but to Noah's, and an ACT OF SIMPLE RESPECT.  I dare say Perry has been cooing into the ears of Noah's reps and trying to foster a compromise where Noah is able to seek out a soft landing portal before training camp begins, gives back probably a shade more money than he would've back last spring, and Knicks prune away an aged vet, who surely has some game remaining, and hopefully finds a nice match in the next few weeks. 

Didn't get back enough cap space to suit you?

Hey, they didn't try and set Noah's ass on fire, like Phil did with Melo, as a precursor to him going out the door. 

[Porzingis]
Kanter
Kornet
Robinson
Vonleh

Even with KP MIA For 2018-2019, that is four bigs who can give you minutes at C-PF.  Four YOUNG BIGS I hasten to add. 

For which Noah does not qualify.

So, really Brother B, THERE IS HOPE FOR MILLS, as this is consistent with all of the other moves you thought were prescient. 

For now, Fizdale still speaks of Coutney among the living.  And with Noah gone, less pressing need for a slow boat to China.  More likely with minutes to showcase Lee's more reasonable contract, skill-set and physical upside, between now and February, a deal might be made for a player with an expiring in the summer of 2019. 

Mills is pulling the trigger on Noah now for roughly the same reasons Steve & Scott are not bellying up to the bar, boys, and making a play for Jimmy Butler.  Because with KP on the mend, their is a rational reason to really let him heal prudently, maybe for all of 2018-2019, which is why 2018-2019 has been consecrated for THE FIZZ KIDS.  That is our roster.  Many free agent considerations with our cap space for all of our free agents. 

And as so prudent a handicapper as yourself has projected 20 wins, in a rosy projection of us having a roll of the dice for Holy Zion, well, it ain't TANKING If You Are TRYING To WIN.  Which we most definitely are, but but you see, Coach has carte blanche to let the FIZZ KIDS compete, get thrown into the cauldron, and TO TAKE THEIR FUCKING LUMPS, to learn how to win, how to finish, how to play the team game, HOW TO PLAY DEFENSE, even if it means losing two out of every three games.  If by next April we playing .500 ball, that is progress, and it ain't tanking, and their are no meaningful veteran players on the roster, save for Lee & Thomas, which is why, given the PRIORITY of doing a actual factual reboot with youth for the first time in 50 years, YOU DON'T GO AFTER BUTLER NOW.  Wrong cat to bond with youth, and what the fuck, if next summer we have a healthy KP and a ripe draft choice, and a clearer idea of what we have on our roster and in G-League, that THEN it might make sense to seek out one maybe two moderately priced vets, and top tier vet...such as fucking Jimmy Butler.

Mills & Perry are not allowing themselves to be stampeded by a fan feeding frenzy for what Fizz characterized as the shiny object. 

CULTURE FIRST IN 2018-2019

Free Agent Destination in 2019-2020

Sounds pretty fucking purposeful and well thought out to me. 

Your theory presupposes that Mills is too stoopid to learn from his mistakes, and he has made plenty of them, beginning with Isiah Thomas.  But Steve was a college point guard for Coach What's His Name with his system at Princeton.  So he ain't just a suit.  And we have a roster full of busts looking to be overachievers.  Motivation.  What a narrative.  Players to root for, such as Mudiay and Burke and Hezonja and Vonleh.  And our Kiddie Korps of Knox, Robinson, Ntilikina, Kornet.  Me thrilled.

The last thing Godfather Fizz needed at this time was the distraction of adding a $40,000,000 concielerge in the form of Jimmy Butler, when he is trying to turn Kevin, Mitchel and Frank in to capos. 

Keep Your Friends Close And Your Enemies Closer. 

The Salary Cap is NOT David Fizdale's focus. 

Player Development Is The Mantra, And Mills has given him a whole year to EMBRACE THE GROWING PAINS. 

PRETTY FUCKING SMART, if you ask me.  Noah was a distraction with two years left.  Lee and Thomas also have two years left, but they are role players, and as such, not a distraction. 

Whereas Noah didn't fit the pedigree of a role player with four bigs to fast track. 

STRETCH. 

So their's the door, Norton, for all of these off with their heads pronouncements. 

Brother Biz, Nagel, you are going to be very happy campers. 

Your NEW, Low Expectation Knicks.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-17-2016/4YS1xY.gif)

The small victories, Ralph. 

Signed

Rosie The PomPom Gurl
Title: Jimmy Butler To...MIAMI
Post by: chipstern on September 23, 2018, 08:07:21 PM
Know what team makes sense for Jimmy Butler?

Miami. 

Leaves the Western Conference for the East.

Miami has more of a veteran roster.  Butler would be a good fit. 

What could they offer. 

Well, a #1 of course, as well as a #2 if they are trying to sweeten the pot, and two YOUNG Players in Tyler Johnson and  Justise Winslow. 

Miami has Dragic at PG.

Dwayne Wade, Dion Walters, Josh Richardson and Wayne Ellington at SG.

Butler at SF and SG.

James Johnson at SF

Whiteside, Bam Adebayo, Kelly Olynyk, Udonis Haslam at C-PF. 

Nice mix of youth, mid-youth and vets.  Better match for Butler than the Knicks.  And vicea versa. 

Gives Thibs offensive and defensive pieces to slot in at SG and SF in a rotation with Wiggins.  Tyler can rock a bit of point as well.  And Justis is Thibs type of ball player.  Less pressure to score in their offense.  And maybe Wiggins would be more comfortable at SG than SF.  Winslow gives him and Thibs some options. 

Anyway, that from someone who foresaw Melo for McDermott and Kanter (and the #2 that produced Robinson).

[In portals of my mind anyway.  Jumped out at me on REAL GM Trade Checker.] 

Not as good a call as Biz identifying Knox as our #1, but then, we aspire to greatness. 
Title: Noah Fence Joakim
Post by: Kam on September 23, 2018, 09:39:46 PM
I will be happy when Noah's Knick Arc is over.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 23, 2018, 10:15:49 PM
Ark Saga, 2018-19

If Noah is not going to be used you run the risk he could become a real dick, a nuisance.

So you are CREATING the situation - and can choose to let it simmer and do possible damage to your young team - or show the man the door -

Plan B may be wisest, no matter how it makes the team look short term.  Rather than saying, "F that, man - I aint lettin him dictate....", you make the proper call and release the man.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on September 24, 2018, 03:26:16 AM
Reminder: if we stretch Noah and strike out in 2019 FA pursuit, we can pay off the remainder of his salary that year and have no lingering cap hit. This may also be something we can exceed the cap and tax thresholds to do.

We do need the roster spot. Bye bye JoNo.
Title: Re: Jimmy Butler To...MIAMI
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 08:41:40 AM
Well, a #1 of course, as well as a #2 if they are trying to sweeten the pot, and two YOUNG Players in Tyler Johnson and  Justise Winslow. 

MIA reportedly charging hard after Butler.

That would be a great deal for MIA.
They get out of Tyler's ridiculous contract, and Winslow is looking to get paid next year as an RFA.
And with Butler their draft pick will might be around 20 or so.

MINN gets some talent, but just two role players.  And a pick.
Enough?  Well, they have a short deadline and who knows what other offers will come in.
Butler rather a Sell low due to his attitude and desire for a max deal next Summer.

Apparently Miniapple would rather move Butler to the East rather than to a playoff contender in the West, such as da Clips.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 08:45:54 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.



Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 08:47:56 AM
Quote
The former GM believes the NBA should get rid of no-trade clauses, explaining that they are too player-friendly. He also believes trade kickers, which bump up a player’s pay by a certain percentage in the event of a deal, can sometimes be viewed as an incentive for a player to push for a trade rather what it was originally intended to be – a clause that gives them peace of mind that they won’t be dealt.

“It’s an absolutely criminal advantage in the favor of the player. If you give a player a no-trade clause, they have you by the balls,” the former GM said. “They can do whatever the f**k they want and there’s nothing you can do to force that player into listening to you or doing what you need him to do. And if they aren’t happy, they can hold a gun to your head and say, ‘I’ll only accept a trade to this one team,’ and you’re going to get pennies on the dollar. I don’t understand why owners ever agree to it. How much sense does it make to give that to a guy? Most of the really good players make more money if they’re traded because they have a big trade kicker, so they have an incentive to want a trade! Another team can give them even more money and handle all the relocation costs and kiss their a** – they’ll be completely coddled. Some teams do things that are totally against the rules like give the guy way more flights than he can get and fly the players’ family out private… They’re going to have their a** kissed to such an amazing degree that being traded isn’t a big deal for those superstar players. It’s a big deal for a minimum player, it’s a big deal for a lot of players, but not them. It’s almost the dream scenario for some guys, and the organization is getting absolutely f****d in the deal, which is why you can’t put yourself in that situation! The no-trade clause is the dumbest clause that exists in any deal. It’s the only clause where the player can do anything and the organization can just be completely screwed over.

Quote
When asked about no-trade clauses, agents acknowledged that they’ve become nearly impossible to land – even for the biggest of superstars.

“You’re never going to get a no-trade clause,” one agent said. “You can try – a handful of guys have gotten one – but you probably aren’t getting it. Everyone would love to have one, though.”

So Phil gave Melo the last no-trade clause ever.
(I'm kidding -- likely AD or Antetekounmpo or KD will get one if they press for it).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 08:53:11 AM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/)

Tyrius Walker

6'1" Morehouse State point guard who made a positive impression on Knicks during summer league. 
Title: Douche
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
Butler had his own double standard.

Privately and publicly he occasionally roasted both Wiggins and Towns for their shoddy defensive effort and acumen.

But the most consequentially bad defender on the Wolves, by far, last season was Jamal Crawford, the sixth man who played 42 percent of his team’s minutes and compiled a defensive rating of 112.9 points allowed per 100 possessions. Phoenix finished last in team defensive efficiency allowing 110.6 points per 100 possessions. Towns and Wiggins both had a defensive rating of 107.7 points allowed per 100 possessions.

But Butler never felt the need to criticize Crawford, who also had a higher usage rate on offense than anyone on the Wolves but Butler and another ex-Bull, Derrick Rose. –  via The Athletic

Relative to his production, Towns was woefully underutilized in the offense last season.
Among the top 25 scorers in the NBA (KAT was 24th), only Stephen Curry had a higher true shooting percentage. None of them averaged fewer field-goal attempts per game than Towns at 14.3, down from 18 attempts the previous season. –  via The Athletic

Thank GOD, we didn't sign Thibs as our coach.  For all of his much-vaunted defensive acumen, he tends to burn players out in short rotations, is an offensive stick in the mud, and something of a douche, not unlike purported franchise player Butler.
Title: Re: Douche
Post by: lesterdog on September 24, 2018, 09:48:49 AM
Butler had his own double standard.

Privately and publicly he occasionally roasted both Wiggins and Towns for their shoddy defensive effort and acumen.

But the most consequentially bad defender on the Wolves, by far, last season was Jamal Crawford ...

Well, not so sure he would have gotten too far with Jamal. I didn't cry when we dumped him cause it was honestly way too painful to watch him on the other side of the court anymore, as bad as it gets. Harden-laughable bad. But if Jamal couldn't bring it at 25, don't think he was going to at 38! Far more important to instill some fight in your young dogs...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 10:56:19 AM
You know Craw isn't going to stop anybody.  That's part of his package. And he was 38 to boot.  And a $4M investment.

But Wiggins is young, athletic and earning $25M ($6M more than Butler).  Towns = young, athletic, #1 overall pick, set to cash in Big.

I wouldn't equate the situations.

Wig and KAT were starters.  And if they could score in the clutch, MINN wouldn't have needed much Craw.  And if they could defend, Wolves would have been a much better team.
Not to excuse Butler being a jerk about it.


Craw one of my least favorite Knicks.  A chucker who didn't play D at all.  And then pouted when asked to come off the bench.  Which proved to be his best role.  A bench light'em scorer.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 11:14:06 AM
Crawford Trivia:

1) What's his actual first name?

2) He's journeyed to 7 different teams.
Which did he play with the longest?
2nd longest?
3rd?

Craw has an ability to get off his shot, is willing to take tough shots, and can make tough shots.
But his career = 41% FG and 35% on 3's.
Very average for a shooter (and guy who didn't play D).
Title: Jamal
Post by: Kam on September 24, 2018, 01:26:08 PM
J-Crossover isn't just a shooter.

He added a unique "and-1" dribble style to the NBA that everyone has copied.

He is Bo's least favorite knick
(a bizarre claim)

but my most favorite ex-knick still playing in the NBA

He leads everyone in 4 point plays ever

He has managed to stick around as long as he has

He still looks 25

He made the pass to yourself off the backboard a thing.

There would be no KD without JC

he changed the game man
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
Quote
The former GM believes the NBA should get rid of no-trade clauses, explaining that they are too player-friendly. He also believes trade kickers, which bump up a player’s pay by a certain percentage in the event of a deal, can sometimes be viewed as an incentive for a player to push for a trade rather what it was originally intended to be – a clause that gives them peace of mind that they won’t be dealt.

“It’s an absolutely criminal advantage in the favor of the player. If you give a player a no-trade clause, they have you by the balls,” the former GM said. “They can do whatever the f**k they want and there’s nothing you can do to force that player into listening to you or doing what you need him to do. And if they aren’t happy, they can hold a gun to your head and say, ‘I’ll only accept a trade to this one team,’ and you’re going to get pennies on the dollar. I don’t understand why owners ever agree to it. How much sense does it make to give that to a guy? Most of the really good players make more money if they’re traded because they have a big trade kicker, so they have an incentive to want a trade! Another team can give them even more money and handle all the relocation costs and kiss their a** – they’ll be completely coddled. Some teams do things that are totally against the rules like give the guy way more flights than he can get and fly the players’ family out private… They’re going to have their a** kissed to such an amazing degree that being traded isn’t a big deal for those superstar players. It’s a big deal for a minimum player, it’s a big deal for a lot of players, but not them. It’s almost the dream scenario for some guys, and the organization is getting absolutely f****d in the deal, which is why you can’t put yourself in that situation! The no-trade clause is the dumbest clause that exists in any deal. It’s the only clause where the player can do anything and the organization can just be completely screwed over.

Quote
When asked about no-trade clauses, agents acknowledged that they’ve become nearly impossible to land – even for the biggest of superstars.

“You’re never going to get a no-trade clause,” one agent said. “You can try – a handful of guys have gotten one – but you probably aren’t getting it. Everyone would love to have one, though.”

So Phil gave Melo the last no-trade clause ever.
(I'm kidding -- likely AD or Antetekounmpo or KD will get one if they press for it).

Irving had a no-trade

He waived it
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 02:48:45 PM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/)

Tyrius Walker

6'1" Morehouse State point guard who made a positive impression on Knicks during summer league.

yeah -  not as interesting
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 24, 2018, 03:50:56 PM
Eddy Curry, Jerome James and Pat Cummings were runners-up.

Most of what you credit him with seems like it was already around.
Jason Williams, Rafer Alston, Iverson, etc.
I don't recall Craw doing a backboard self-pass.  I do remember McGrady making it a thing.

What I will give Craw credit for is being an integral part of the Seattle area hoops network, where guys really look after each other.  Some recent rook said he stayed over at Craw's house a bunch during a high school Summer.  Fultz, maybe?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 05:02:30 PM
https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal (https://www.postingandtoasting.com/2018/9/21/17889392/the-knicks-signed-forward-jeff-coby-to-a-training-camp-deal)

Jeff Coby.  Columbia guy.  Interesting.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/ (https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/nba/knicks/2018/09/19/new-york-knicks-sign-tyrius-walker/1357634002/)

Tyrius Walker

6'1" Morehouse State point guard who made a positive impression on Knicks during summer league.

yeah -  not as interesting
w
r
o
n
g

Kid is a leader, a winner, the purest, most natural rudder on the 20 man roster. 

Westchester bound.  But a great stash.  Four year Point. 

Your snark has been duly noted. 
Title: Breakthrough Year A-Coming
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 05:10:58 PM
Enough males in the Ball Family. 

Could use a few men. 

Mike Trudell: Lonzo on becoming a father over the summer: “You gotta think about a whole other human being. When she was born, that changed my view on everything.”  –  via Twitter LakersReporter

Between his little girl, Rondo & LeBron, Lonzo has a nurturing posse of maternal wisdom to bond with. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
wonder if anyone actually asked Noah if he would be fine simply being a mentor to robinson.  getting a few minutes here and there.

did they even talk to him?  some of you are assuming he would of been a problem.

i don't see that.  he had a better chance to teaching ROBINSON WHAT IT TAKES TO BE AN NBA PLAYER THAN EK DOES.

THAT IS MY TAKE.

doesn't matter.

i'm not a fan of our president.  Perry and Fizdale seem to be saying the right things but the Hardaway/Baker signings leave me cold.  overpay on both to me.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 06:32:36 PM
wonder if anyone actually asked Noah if he would be fine simply being a mentor to robinson.  getting a few minutes here and there.

did they even talk to him?  some of you are assuming he would of been a problem.

i don't see that.  he had a better chance to teaching ROBINSON WHAT IT TAKES TO BE AN NBA PLAYER THAN EK DOES.

THAT IS MY TAKE.

doesn't matter.

i'm not a fan of our president.  Perry and Fizdale seem to be saying the right things but the Hardaway/Baker signings leave me cold.  overpay on both to me.

As it so happens...

Perry talked to Noah earlier this summer, and THEY agreed that a mentor role was not something that work for him, as he needed a commitment to playing time that was not going to be forthcoming. 

And Christ almighty, Hardaway and Baker.  This is what keeps you fucking awake at night? 

Are you still upset about Stevenson getting pummeled by Eisenhower? 

PS: And Kanter has PLENTY to convey to Mitchell Robinson. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 24, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.
Title: THEY GIT SOME GOOD DRUGS
Post by: chipstern on September 24, 2018, 09:37:54 PM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.

“When I think about the playoffs, my nipples get hard.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 24, 2018, 09:51:09 PM
I dont have a problem with folks calling THJ an overpay

As long as they realise he wouldnt be on the roster otherwise.

Baker was an organizational "we like this guy" keep.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 12:34:44 AM
I dont have a problem with folks calling THJ an overpay
As long as they realise he wouldnt be on the roster otherwise.

Baker was an organizational "we like this guy" keep.

But how would we replace Tim's 31% distance shooting?
Actually, you offer Tim a $15M starting salary, and ATL might not match that either, so he might be on the Knix at a $2M savings.
But at least with Tim, it's understandable that you overpay for an RFA (and a starter).  That's how you get your target.  Too low, and it's matched.  And the hope is that Tim Jr. grows into his contract.

But with Baker, we were bidding against ourselves.
2/$4M or 2/$5M should have been fine.  Or at a higher amount
a 2nd year team option.

These weren't huge overpays or big blunders, but if you save $2M on each, you have an extra $4M with which to pay another player or add to cap space.
Title: Re: THEY GIT SOME GOOD DRUGS
Post by: Nagel on September 25, 2018, 01:31:25 AM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.

“When I think about the playoffs, my nipples get hard.”

BB porn star
Title: Re: THEY GIT SOME GOOD DRUGS
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 03:16:24 AM
if that was agree to thenOk.  no those two don't keep me up at night,  i don't give a fuck.
'
“I got a chance to play with him in open gym, and I was shocked a little bit,” Burke said Monday at media day at the MSG Training Center. “His ability to just get a rebound off of the rim, just go right back up and just dunk it, it reminded me of like a young — and this is high praise — it reminded me of like a young Shaquille O’Neal, just skinnier.

“Me seeing a rookie do that, I was like, man, this kid can be great.”

NBA ordered immediate drug testing for Burke.

“When I think about the playoffs, my nipples get hard.”

BB porn star

Mid-Season Form
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 04:32:48 AM
I take that back on Pat Cummings.  He gave a solid effort every night.  It wasn't his fault he was asked to be our starting C -- which is what I hated.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 25, 2018, 08:31:52 AM
Eddy Curry, Jerome James and Pat Cummings were runners-up.

Most of what you credit him with seems like it was already around.
Jason Williams, Rafer Alston, Iverson, etc.
I don't recall Craw doing a backboard self-pass.  I do remember McGrady making it a thing.

What I will give Craw credit for is being an integral part of the Seattle area hoops network, where guys really look after each other.  Some recent rook said he stayed over at Craw's house a bunch during a high school Summer.  Fultz, maybe?

How can you forget the pass off the backboard....
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 25, 2018, 08:35:28 AM
Reminder: if we stretch Noah and strike out in 2019 FA pursuit, we can pay off the remainder of his salary that year and have no lingering cap hit. This may also be something we can exceed the cap and tax thresholds to do.

We do need the roster spot. Bye bye JoNo.

This is not my understanding of the rule, and I've checked the CBA. The reason I think it is dumb to waive Noah is precisely because we are stuck with the lingering cap hit. If you understand it differently, please share a link with an explanation (I certainly could be wrong).
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
 Ron Baker can

score, inc from deep

handle

pass

defend 3 positions

Stop whining over 2 million bucks.   Randle and Kuzminskas don't have that skills list
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 10:38:26 AM
For Chip, the Celts fan

https://twitter.com/Jack_Michael17/status/1044270421770731521 (https://twitter.com/Jack_Michael17/status/1044270421770731521)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 25, 2018, 01:47:56 PM
Ron Baker can score, inc from deep handle pass defend 3 positions

He's also 3rd string, and our 6 or 7th best Guard...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 03:28:43 PM
yeah, funny - they like the "more colorful" player.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 25, 2018, 04:16:08 PM
Can RB finish at the rim yet?  I remember i guy who could get there fearlessly.  And miss.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 05:05:43 PM
Ron Baker can score, inc from deep handle pass defend 3 positions

He's also 3rd string, and our 6 or 7th best Guard...

This is what camp is for

(Chip will say he is 8th or 9th - heh)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 05:29:29 PM
Can RB finish at the rim yet? 

Occassionally.  Not sure what Fizzie wants

I think drawing and dishing is the better part of Bake's PG  game.

Initially to me he was just a 2 guard - but Knicks think otherwise (at least last year they did  - maybe this will change)

Frank, Bakes, THJ, Knox, KP wouldnt be a bad defensive look
Title: What Fizz Wants [One Lump Or Two?]
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 08:08:50 PM
Coach has given some pronounced clues to THE FIZZ KIDS.

Urging Kanter to practice this three point shot. 

So he wants to stretch the floor, and play the contemporary game. 

Suggesting he would play Mudiay-Burke-Ntilikina together.

So he wants to optimize ballhandling.

Telegraphing his intention to play Herzonja at the four. 

So Hezonja works this summer on his post-up game. 

Suggesting that he is going to toss Knox into the fire and let him take his lumps at the three. 

So Knox is conscious that defense is priority #1, and therein, GETTING OUT IN TRANSITION.
 

During early workouts with the likes of Mudiay and Burke, he had them running layup drills, with an emphasis on footwork, finishing in rhythm, and finishing decisively.

So he is placing a premium on opening up passing/driving lanes with the three and attacking the rim, Attacking The Rim, ATTACKING THE RIM.

Burke
Mudiay
Ntilikina
Hardaway
Dotson
Baker


Crowded backcourt.

Knox
Lee
Thomas
Hezonja
Vonleh


Minutes up for grabs at SF/PF

Kanter
Kornet
Robinson


Enes is going to have to fight off the challenge of the two young pups he is likewise expected to mentor. 

Fizz is selling his Kids (and vets...Kanter...Hardaway...Lee...Thomas) on POSITIONLESS BASKETBALL & STARTERLESS BASKETBALL. 

I mean, okay, that's nice in principle...but it seems to me the motivation is to engender the fiercest levels of competition AND teamwork, a touchy balancing act. 

And maintaining that culture, having his charges ready to compete for 48 minutes, to learn how to close out and win, take your lumps and comeback. 

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/VainGregariousFrenchbulldog-max-1mb.gif)

Will that be one lump, or two...

(https://www.odt.co.nz/sites/default/files/styles/odt_landscape_extra_large_4_3/public/story/2018/03/sugar_cubes_tray_and_tongs.jpg?itok=m9RwCuNP)

Or three?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/D3OdaKTGlpTBC/giphy.gif)

Ladies & Gentlemen, Your New LOW EXPECTATION, New York Knickerbockers.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 25, 2018, 10:03:33 PM
heh

If Kanter is here he plays 30 minutes

Fighting off....

too funny
Title: Cracker Jack Off
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 11:26:59 PM
heh

If Kanter is here he plays 30 minutes

Fighting off....

too funny

Would it be snarky of me to suggest you are a smug douche?

I thought not. 

We cool, then? 

Everyone please remember, vis a vis that inevitable point in the future, when Kiid sets out to re-write the evidence of the record, that Kiid Has Staked His Reputation On His Projection That
Mitchell Robinson is ticketed for Westchester and The G-League


(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/131/honk.jpg)

PPS: Let's Squeeze The Our Forum Honky's Funny Nose...Peanuts....Popcorn...CrackerJackOff.

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/xT5LMVxrF7SnCyhbdm/giphy.gif)
Title: Basketball: A LOVE STORY
Post by: chipstern on September 25, 2018, 11:48:34 PM
Wonderful, comprehensive documentary on Pro Hoops, currently on ESPN2.

What a joy.

Currently reflecting on the ABA, which was a precursor to the modern game. 

Dr. J vs Sky Walker (Julius Erving vs David Thompson) in the first Slam Dunk Contest. 

Oh

My

GOD

"I won," Julius recalls.  "Got a $50 Gift Certificate."
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 08:35:59 AM
Maybe Chip will name for us his 12 players in uniform opening night
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
G league or gone -

Trier, Coby, Walker, Allen, Hicks, Baker.......

Add one

Dotson?
Robinson?
Get rid of Lee?



What's the equation for Mitch to be active?
Title: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 08:50:35 AM
Kanter, Kornet, Robinson

Hezonja, Vonleh, Thomas

Knox, Lee

Hardaway, Ntilikina

Burke, Mudiay

Title: Re: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 09:41:27 AM
Kanter, Kornet, Robinson

Hezonja, Vonleh, Thomas

Knox, Lee

Hardaway, Ntilikina

Burke, Mudiay

+ Dotson

+ Baker

+ ??????
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 11:03:59 AM
Keeping Robinson - Dotson and Baker make 14, without Porzingis.

12 dress.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 26, 2018, 12:26:29 PM
Butler says, "Knicks dont want me?  Fuck them then."

New desired team is HEAT

Good spot for Jimmy
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 26, 2018, 12:39:22 PM
Quote
Even though rookie Mitchell Robinson looked very sharp during summer league, the 19-year-old did not play college basketball and would need a lot more time to develop before receiving that much playing time.

But his trainer Marcell Scott believes he will be a starter midway through the year (via New York Post):
“I knew once they saw Mitchell on the court and saw all the stuff he brings to the table, the G-League would be eliminated from the conversation. I honestly think at the halfway mark, at the All-Star break, Mitch will be starting.”
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 01:15:46 PM
Quote
Even though rookie Mitchell Robinson looked very sharp during summer league, the 19-year-old did not play college basketball and would need a lot more time to develop before receiving that much playing time.

But his trainer Marcell Scott believes he will be a starter midway through the year (via New York Post):
“I knew once they saw Mitchell on the court and saw all the stuff he brings to the table, the G-League would be eliminated from the conversation. I honestly think at the halfway mark, at the All-Star break, Mitch will be starting.”

I said this in July.  I had a post saying Kanter won't finish the season our starter at C.
Title: It's Official
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 02:28:46 PM
Well, that makes it a plurality...of 2.
Title: Good Stuff
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:51:15 PM
KP is rebounding for other Knicks in shooting drills.

Because it shows commitment to the team

AND

He needs to work on his rebounding.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 26, 2018, 02:52:17 PM
Robinson should been on the team and get minutes.

this is a developmental year.  so develop him.
Title: Rebound your height
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:53:49 PM
Is that too much to ask KP?
Title: Mitchell Robinson for Lonzo Ball Trade Rumor
Post by: Kam on September 26, 2018, 02:59:43 PM
I don't know if there's anything to this. But if Rondo starts and if Mitchell emerges quickly...
Title: Re: Mitchell Robinson for Lonzo Ball Trade Rumor
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 04:05:33 PM
I don't know if there's anything to this. But if Rondo starts and if Mitchell emerges quickly...

And your source for this [nonsense] is ______________?
Title: Ball Vs. Trier
Post by: chipstern on September 26, 2018, 05:25:09 PM
Could find zero evidence, to coin a phrase, of this "rumored" deal.

What I did find were numerous reports of the Lakers' promise to draft Robinson. 

They took Wagner instead.  Nice player.  More advanced technically at this point, at least on the offensive end.  Not sure he has Robinson's upside, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw)

What I did stumble upon was this UCLA vs Arizona duel, in which Lonzo Ball and Alonzo Trier really went at it and acquitted themselves nicely. 

Knox
Robinson
Trier

Pretty nice haul. 

PS: Rondo may be starting, but that is more a reflection of accommodating LeBron, and allowing Lonzo to fully heal and to learn from Rajon.  I don't see the Lakers dangling Lonzo for anything, and when he is healthy, he is the lead sled dog for sure. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 27, 2018, 05:50:07 AM
Chris Dudley enters the Kavanaugh conversation (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/09/26/chris-dudley-never-saw-brett-kavanaugh-blacked-out-drunk/1436058002/).
And . . . another missed FT.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 08:02:51 AM
LeBron:

On Rondo:   "A competitor."

On Ball:   "Destined for greatness."
Title: Received Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Urethra_Franklin on September 27, 2018, 02:02:47 PM
I promise that Trey Burke will lead the team in scoring this season
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:06:36 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 02:07:32 PM
Butts has talked about playing with Kawhi in LA.

Not sure he is married to KI.  May be moreso the other way.
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 02:59:58 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.

Please Note

The Narrative Which Held That Paying The Inflated Price For Jimmy Butler And His Fucking Ego Was The Road To Kyrie Irving's Heart Was Always BULLSHIT

Been Trying To Tell Suckers That This Was A False Flag And That The Idea Kyrie Would Bail On A Championship Caliber Team To Join His Bro ANYWHERE, Was Specious Nonsense. 

But hey, knock yourself out with this media fan circle jerk. 
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 03:03:52 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.

Please Note

The Narrative Which Held That Paying The Inflated Price For Jimmy Butler And His Fucking Ego Was The Road To Kyrie Irving's Heart Was Always BULLSHIT

Been Trying To Tell Suckers That This Was A False Flag And That The Idea Kyrie Would Bail On A Championship Caliber Team To Join His Bro ANYWHERE, Was Specious Nonsense. 

But hey, knock yourself out with this media fan circle jerk.

That's like, your opinion, man.
Title: $1.99 for a limited time
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 03:13:50 PM
The NBA believes it has the answer, and starting with the 2018-19 season, you’ll be able to buy portions of individual games through micro-transactions.

In a press release on Thursday, the NBA announced new offerings being added to its “NBA League Pass” program, which allows fans to watch out-of-market games over streaming services. These are being expanded to include the option for fans to buy single quarters of games, a revolutionary move that could change how fans consume live sports.

For current NBA League Pass subscribers all their viewing options will remain available, however fans can now pay $1.99 to watch from the conclusion of the third quarter until the end of the game.
Title: Re: Received Wisdom
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 03:37:10 PM
Fuck Jimmy Butler

PS: Note to Trader Vics.  Kyrie Irving is a Celtic.  Get over it. 

Heh

I like our team without Jimmy and with Kyrie

But if they have to be butt buddies, see ya to both.

Please Note

The Narrative Which Held That Paying The Inflated Price For Jimmy Butler And His Fucking Ego Was The Road To Kyrie Irving's Heart Was Always BULLSHIT

Been Trying To Tell Suckers That This Was A False Flag And That The Idea Kyrie Would Bail On A Championship Caliber Team To Join His Bro ANYWHERE, Was Specious Nonsense. 

But hey, knock yourself out with this media fan circle jerk.

That's like, your opinion, man.

That's like, my response to people who promulgated this wishful narrative as if it were F-A-C-T. 

By the way, not a Celtic F-A-N.  Miras damn near throttled me at MSG when I said, "You gotta love Paul Pierce."

Ha.

Celtics had just erased a huge first half Amare-Carmelo lead.  Paul Pierce.  Knicks Killer.  Right up their with Reggie.  Motherfucker DID IT AGAIN. 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

The team Danny Ainge assembled.

The culture Brad Stevens nurtured. 

The attitude Celtics players play with and how they play WITH each other. 

Kiid sneers.  Good for him.  Celtics are the #1 team in the East.

Sixers coming on fast.  Raptors a force to reckon with. 

I point to the Celtics as a template for how to do it patiently and purposefully. 

That doesn't make me a fan, CrackerJack. 

But hey, it used to be damn near an honor to have Parish-McHale-Bird-Ainge-Johnson kick your ass.  Just a great tradition of team basketball.  That playoff series where Bernard and the Knicks took the Celtics to 7, with neither team yielding its home court?  Probably my fave Knicks playoff series, least ways top five for drama and competitive tenacity. 

In boxing, things are more cut and dry.  Man against Man.  Period. 

Team sports is a more complex paradigm.  Notice how Coach Fizdale made it a point to take his young charges to a playoff game last spring to witness first hand how it's done at the next level of winning hoops. 

And whom did Fizz take them to see?  The Celtics In BOSTON. 

And Irving is their bell cow. 

My opinion, huh?

Talk to y'all next June. 

In the meantime, I am getting behind Trey, Emmanuel and Frank. 

Free agency?  How about we grow our own for a hot minute or two. 

We got points.  Now let's see if we can't get a few wins. 

Your hometown LOW EXPECTATION New York Knickerbockers. 
Title: Re: Ball Vs. Trier
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 03:40:51 PM
Could find zero evidence, to coin a phrase, of this "rumored" deal.

What I did find were numerous reports of the Lakers' promise to draft Robinson. 

They took Wagner instead.  Nice player.  More advanced technically at this point, at least on the offensive end.  Not sure he has Robinson's upside, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY53SR3Zviw)

What I did stumble upon was this UCLA vs Arizona duel, in which Lonzo Ball and Alonzo Trier really went at it and acquitted themselves nicely. 

Knox
Robinson
Trier

Pretty nice haul. 

PS: Rondo may be starting, but that is more a reflection of accommodating LeBron, and allowing Lonzo to fully heal and to learn from Rajon.  I don't see the Lakers dangling Lonzo for anything, and when he is healthy, he is the lead sled dog for sure.

Ian Begley: David Fizdale has been impressed by Allonzo Trier this far. He said the Knicks have charted six chase-down blocks from Trier in scrimmages dating back to Summer League. Trier is on a two-way contract.
– via Twitter IanBegley
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 03:56:28 PM
"Celts are the #1 team in the East......."

Raptors won the division

Cavaliers won the conference

Warriors won the league.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:00:50 PM
No one promulgated shit. but knock yourself out. 

You read one article that supports  your bias and you write with biblical certitude what you feel will happen.

promulgate this.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 07:29:28 PM
No one promulgated shit. but knock yourself out. 

You read one article that supports  your bias and you write with biblical certitude what you feel will happen.

promulgate this.

Haha.

Nicely played...

However, I seem to have this vague recollection of a Facebook Friend, name of Kamiar (any relation?), earnestly asking if (IF) signing Butler guaranteed us getting Irving, would I still be opposed to giving up our #1.

There is the narrative that has been promulgated, conjecture based on more conjecture, based on wish fulfillment of a circle jerk, inculcated in the Classic Recipe by Iron Chef SHORT ORDER COOK for Minute Rice A La Melo. 

Kam.  Makes His Own Gravy. 

Silly me. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 07:32:12 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

Title: Delay Climax
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:10:57 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

It's all good, Kam-A-Matic. 

Where we differ, well, not differ, really, is in my stubborn patience with a slower, less rewarding process. 

And my willingness to take our lumps and allow that process to gestate. 

I have seen the appeal of the shiny object derail our franchise too many times. 

No less a handicapper than Biz, sees Mills as a congenital loser based on his faux pas concerning Hardaway, Baker and the Noah divorce. 

Fair enough. 

However, I see someone who has participated and frankly been complicit in any number of Knicks Front Office Brain Farts.  ANd I like the team he has assembled. 

Where we differ, is in my sense that he has learned from his mistakes, as has Dolan. 

Nagel sees Perry as a loser. 

I see someone who has also made his share of mistakes, but whose signature move so far, was to complete the Melo process in a gentlemanly manner, to resist pressure to send him packing for a bag of beans, and who maintained diplomatic relations with Melo, and whose final haul was Kanter, Mudiay and Robinson (not Ryan FUCKING Anderson). 

No more Phil aftertaste.  These Knicks, and these front office people, have tried every other approach, and failed with every other approach, and having now committed to a Coach where they are all on the same page and the mantra is Youth, Rebuild and (call me a Pom Pom Gurl) PATIENCE, I for one am willing to postpone orgasm. 
Title: PS
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 08:18:45 PM
Apparently Courtney, Baker and our #1 would not have been a winning offer. 
   
The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly sought Ben Simmons in a potential Jimmy Butler trade with the Philadelphia 76ers. Appearing on The Bill Simmons Podcast on Thursday, The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor explained just how high the Timberwolves’ asking price is for their disgruntled shooting guard: “One of the things that I’ve heard from a handful of sources is that—with the Sixers for example—the initial offer that they made, the counter-offer was like, ‘We need Ben Simmons in a deal.'”
– via Bleacher Report


Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

Meanwhile, Butler collects paychecks, and refuses to play with his team. 

FUCK

JIMMY

BUTLER
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
Taylor has options

But would you call Butler's bluff, refuse to pay him, rather than work a deal?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 09:08:59 PM
Taylor has options

But would you call Butler's bluff, refuse to pay him, rather than work a deal?

Bluff?

Yes. 

He has a signed contract for just under $20 Million. 

Was disgruntled in Chicago and Minnesota ponied up a big package of assets to give him a second chance. 

Refuses to practice with his team? 

Willing to sit out the season?

Hey, in deference to your principles, we won't insist you suit up. 

WE JUST WON'T PAY YOU. 

No problema. 

PS: What Wolves are putting out there in terms of "deals" are utterly absurd.  BEN SIMMONS?  Seriously?  Thibs must be drinking absinthe. 
Title: Re: Delay Climax
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 09:24:49 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

It's all good, Kam-A-Matic. 

Where we differ, well, not differ, really, is in my stubborn patience with a slower, less rewarding process. 



I admit there is no - one way to build a team - but the slow stubborn process isn't a guarantee either.

Plenty of teams (Atlanta under Mike Woodson for instance) have a decent 3-4 year run from 20 something wins to 50+ build teams slow and stubborn.

MJ's Hornets.

The Bucks.

etc.

But those teams aren't NY.  They don't have the cache.  They can't pull off big Free Agents.  Or be on the short list for impending free agents.

We have - however diluted it now is - the advantage of playing in the Mecca.

Players still seem to hold being a Knick in some regard.

Its different from being an Orlando Magic,  Magi?  Mogwai?

When we CAN exploit this advantage we should always at least consider the SHOULD aspect.

That is all.
Title: Re: PS
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 09:25:46 PM
Apparently Courtney, Baker and our #1 would not have been a winning offer. 
   
The Minnesota Timberwolves reportedly sought Ben Simmons in a potential Jimmy Butler trade with the Philadelphia 76ers. Appearing on The Bill Simmons Podcast on Thursday, The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor explained just how high the Timberwolves’ asking price is for their disgruntled shooting guard: “One of the things that I’ve heard from a handful of sources is that—with the Sixers for example—the initial offer that they made, the counter-offer was like, ‘We need Ben Simmons in a deal.'”
– via Bleacher Report


Nothing ventured, nothing gained. 

Meanwhile, Butler collects paychecks, and refuses to play with his team. 

FUCK

JIMMY

BUTLER

Is that Thibs/Layden talking or the owner Glen Taylor?
Title: Re: $1.99 for a limited time
Post by: Nagel on September 27, 2018, 10:15:25 PM
The NBA believes it has the answer, and starting with the 2018-19 season, you’ll be able to buy portions of individual games through micro-transactions.

In a press release on Thursday, the NBA announced new offerings being added to its “NBA League Pass” program, which allows fans to watch out-of-market games over streaming services. These are being expanded to include the option for fans to buy single quarters of games, a revolutionary move that could change how fans consume live sports.

For current NBA League Pass subscribers all their viewing options will remain available, however fans can now pay $1.99 to watch from the conclusion of the third quarter until the end of the game.

how about a .25 cent option.?
Title: Re: Delay Climax
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 10:26:57 PM
That is me on Facebook Chipper.  Howdy!

It's all good, Kam-A-Matic. 

Where we differ, well, not differ, really, is in my stubborn patience with a slower, less rewarding process. 



I admit there is no - one way to build a team - but the slow stubborn process isn't a guarantee either.

Plenty of teams (Atlanta under Mike Woodson for instance) have a decent 3-4 year run from 20 something wins to 50+ build teams slow and stubborn.

MJ's Hornets.

The Bucks.

etc.

But those teams aren't NY.  They don't have the cache.  They can't pull off big Free Agents.  Or be on the short list for impending free agents.

We have - however diluted it now is - the advantage of playing in the Mecca.

Players still seem to hold being a Knick in some regard.

Its different from being an Orlando Magic,  Magi?  Mogwai?

When we CAN exploit this advantage we should always at least consider the SHOULD aspect.

That is all.

Fair enough. 

To address one of your points. 

In what way, have you observed the clear cachet of the Knickerbockers or the allure of this major market in any free agent outreach over the past 20-25 years? 

What did it yield us? 

Joakim Noah

Amare Stoudamire

Jerome James

A trade for Carmelo Anthony, with his free agency looming, not unlike Butler, and an analogous desire to get a max contact now rather than later, wherein we eagerly gutted our team of young talent and draft choice for this once in a lifetime talent.  And thus, eliminated any hope of assembling complementary talent to so enable Anthony's talent.  What free agents did we attract during Melo's Knicks ascendancy, with all of his star power and talent, and the irrefutable allure of the MECCA--in the form of MSG and New York City. 

Did all of that star power and allure work on Grant Hill, Chris Bosh, Kevin Durant? 

So yes, there are many ways to build a contender. 

We have tried the star power and the allure route, we have overpaid for free agents and sacrificed youth and draft picks. 

And has it worked?

And so, now that we have arrived at the Sixers-Celtics trust the process, build through youth and the draft route, well, I for one would like to see us allow it proceed, without any burps and belches and back-stepping. 

That's all. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 27, 2018, 10:36:29 PM
The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 27, 2018, 10:43:39 PM
Good agent

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-celtics-apos-gordon-hayward-203549310.html (https://sports.yahoo.com/report-celtics-apos-gordon-hayward-203549310.html)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 27, 2018, 11:58:51 PM
The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.

Targeted that LeBron James fellow, did we not? 

Rolled out the red carpet.

Since 1996, who were our free agent signings? 

Chris Childs

Andrew Lang

Allan Houston

Jerome James

Amare Stoudamire

Doesn't seem like we have been much of a destination, does it? 

Amare and Allan were legit signings, who gave us a couple of really good years before their knees gave out. 

Otherwise. 

NADA.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 12:19:33 AM
Tim






Hardaway







JUNIOR!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 12:25:29 AM
weren't the Knix usually capped out?

I have concerns and reservations about Butler.
But KZ & Butler gives you two of the Top 10 two-way players in the NBA.

I'd say:
LeBJ, Kawhi, Paul George, Embiid, Chris Paul,
Durant, Anthony Davis, KZ, Butler, Ben Simmons

3rd team all 2-way: Antetokounmpo, Oladipo (one good year so far), maybe Klay (but I think his D is overrated), Horford.  Guys like Covington and Middleton are next up.

Am I forgetting anyone?

Back to the Knix.
If you court two of the Top 10 best two-way players, it's not that hard to build a team around them.  Find a credible starting PG and you're in the homecourt playoff mix.  Add some pieces and you're a legit contender.  Butler would make the Knix relevant next year, and could help attract a legit FA.

Now if you don't think Fizz can handle such a dynamic.  Or the Knick team isn't ready for a top-flight vet, okay. 

I'm somewhat on the fence, but if the cost is say Courtly, Franc, and Lance, I pull the trigger.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 12:29:03 AM
The Strategy has worked...

when we want a guy, we have a more than fair shot at getting them,

perhaps only other team is the Lakers who can make that claim...

... the error was the targets selected.

Jerome James Joakim Noah... 

the METS sucked for years because they were afraid to give out money to a big Free Agent because of Bobby Bonilla.

Scared money don't make none.

Targeted that LeBron James fellow, did we not? 

Rolled out the red carpet.

Since 1996, who were our free agent signings? 

Chris Childs

Andrew Lang

Allan Houston

Jerome James

Amare Stoudamire

Doesn't seem like we have been much of a destination, does it? 

Amare and Allan were legit signings, who gave us a couple of really good years before their knees gave out. 

Otherwise. 

NADA.

We got JR Smith when he came back from China then we re-signed him on the cheap because of the hometown (NJ) discount.

LeBron had other plans.

Teams have diferent strengths in free agency... Lakers and NYKnicks have the allure of the Franchise Blue Bloods. the Texas and Florida teams have the lack of State Income tax. Lakers have Hollywood. LA Bron.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 12:30:23 AM
And a lot is made about Butler turning 33 or whatever at the end of his deal.

LaMarcus Aldridge is 33.  He just had a pretty good year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 12:41:41 AM
Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:16:54 AM
Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!

True Dat. 

However,  I don't think we would consider Timmy as a Tier 1 Free Agent, along the lines of, oh, Klay Thompson. 

People talked about overpaying. 

Hey, it was a roll of the dice, and we wanted to put the kibosh on Atlanta matching. 

No guarantee that they would fail to match, even with those numbers. 

Nyets made big time/big money offers to Tyler Johnson and Allan Crabbe, both exceeding money Knicks proffered to Timmy. 

Miami regrets matching on RFA Tyler; Portland matched and ended up cutting their losses by trading Crabbe to the Nyets anyway. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 01:26:51 AM
Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.

Okay

Latest rumor?

Rockets making a push for Butler. 

Here is a trade that works for both teams, though Houston comes out ahead, for sure. 

Eric Gordon, JP Tucker, Brandon Knight and a #1

FOR

Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng. 

Minny gets rid of Dieng and his contract, which is purportedly a priority, receive a starting SG, a solid defensive sixth man wing in PJ Tucker, and a point on Knight. 

Butler becomes Houston's starting SF. 

Paul-Harden-Butler-Anthony-Capella

Dieng off the bench at PF and C.

Perhaps some combo of Speights or Green or Carter-Williams sweetens the pot...extra draft picks...

I suppose this is a legit offer, but Minny asking Philly for Ben Simmons would signal delusions of grandeur. 

And this trade would turn Houston into a conference juggernaut, capable of nuking the likes of Minnesota for next two-three years. 

Still, only way the number work are with Gordon-Tucker-Knight and taking back Dieng. 

Perhaps if another team was involved, such as the Kings. 

Anyway, something for all of you Trader Vics to contemplate. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 28, 2018, 01:32:00 AM
Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!
Nyets made big time/big money offers to Tyler Johnson and Allan Crabbe, both exceeding money Knicks proffered to Timmy. 

Miami regrets matching on RFA Tyler; Portland matched and ended up cutting their losses by trading Crabbe to the Nyets anyway.

Other teams making dumb deals doesn't make THJr's deal any less ill-advised.

There were many teams that notably did not sign players to dumb deals, for example. Maybe the Celtics, not the Nets, should be the model. They never would have signed Timmy to that contract.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on September 28, 2018, 05:26:48 AM
I like that HOU deal.
You have to remember there's no guarantee Butler re-ups with his new team.


I'm wary of both RFA's and big/max contracts well into a player's 30's.
Both can be dangerous.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 06:16:13 AM
I think the idea that the Knicks are an attractive team to free agents because New York is the mecca of basketball is a notion long-dead and buried. Terrible ownership, ridiculous player personnel decisions and the "nationalization" of the  NBA (i.e. you don't have to be in New York for exposure and commercial opportunity) puts paud to any such notion.

If the Knicks think (do they?) that the "New York" on the front of their jerseys gives  them an edge they'll never escape the rut they've been in. Of course as in most things with me, I think I'm good at indentifying problems but have no idea how to fix them.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 08:14:43 AM
I laugh heartily at anyone who doesn't appreciate what Chris Childs brought to the Knicks

Oh, yeah - forgot - unless it was to a "winner", doesnt count.

OY.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
I think the idea that the Knicks are an attractive team to free agents because New York is the mecca of basketball is a notion long-dead and buried. Terrible ownership, ridiculous player personnel decisions and the "nationalization" of the  NBA (i.e. you don't have to be in New York for exposure and commercial opportunity) puts paud to any such notion.

If the Knicks think (do they?) that the "New York" on the front of their jerseys gives  them an edge they'll never escape the rut they've been in. Of course as in most things with me, I think I'm good at indentifying problems but have no idea how to fix them.

You may be right.  But the last couple seasons (maybe because we can't guard anyone) I usually hear visiting players post-game interview talk about their big game in the garden and how it is a stage unlike any other in Basketball. 

Their words shape my opinion that there are some (not all) players who would relish playing here 41 times a season.

PLUS you have the CITY OF NEW YORK to live/hang out in year round.  And a lot (not all) of humans would relish living here 24/7.

So you take the Venn Diagram of players who like MSG and players who like NYC and that is not an insignificant number of players.

I think only the LA Lakers rivals that package.

That advantage has been eroded by the era of the Superteam and Players and their Agents conspiring to play with other players they like.

Thats a new thing... some blame the AAU circuit.  And also on the Shoe Contracts that rival what they get from the NBA.

But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market.

And i bet if you took a poll of all the international players they would probably also want NY or LA or Chicago over say Charlotte or Memphis.
Title: My Lineup
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:17:10 PM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee
Title: In case of emergency
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:19:33 PM
Mudiay
Vonleh
Lance
Kornet
Title: Howdy
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 02:22:51 PM
So? 

Twenty Five Years And Counting. 

And our most recent free agents? 

Hezonja?  Vonleh?

Attracted by relationships with Scott Perry, and a desire to reinvent themselves, retool their careers. 

Still waiting on that Thoroughbred you posit would LOVE TO PLAY IN NEW YORK.

As Fizdale laid it out, if we don't create a legitimate winning culture, free agency won't matter worth a damn. 

Too many players have mainly used that "New York Allure" to drive up the price for their preferred destinations. 

Or blown us off completely as in, refusing to even consider a meeting, such as Durant. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 02:28:11 PM
But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market

Lebron James? James Harden? Kevin Durant?  Russell Westbrook?  I think your argument might work for baseball players, as MLB remains a regional sport. I don't think that's the case for today's NBA.   
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:36:12 PM
But to refute your point about exposure... i am sorry but you're going to have to give me an example of the guy (Giannis, Dame Lillard, Anthony Davis, etc) who wouldn't have his profiled raised a lot higher with much more exposure if he were in a better (read: bigger) market

Lebron James? James Harden? Kevin Durant?  Russell Westbrook?  I think your argument might work for baseball players, as MLB remains a regional sport. I don't think that's the case for today's NBA.

LeBron just went to a bigger market!  How can you use him as an example against my point?

KD escaped a small market to go to a bigger one.

Russ is an alien.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Yankguy1 on September 28, 2018, 02:42:13 PM
Do you think Lebron going to LA is going to raise his profile?  Your question asked for examples of guys who wouldn't have a higher profile in a bigger market. I don't think those guys profiles could be any higher wherever they played. 

With a couple of nice seasons thrown in, the Knicks have been a garbage team with garbage management for years now.  "Everyone wants to play in New York" is dead.  Good management and good coaching is the way back. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 02:50:02 PM
Do you think Lebron going to LA is going to raise his profile?  Your question asked for examples of guys who wouldn't have a higher profile in a bigger market. I don't think those guys profiles could be any higher wherever they played. 

With a couple of nice seasons thrown in, the Knicks have been a garbage team with garbage management for years now.  "Everyone wants to play in New York" is dead.  Good management and good coaching is the way back.

Yes LeBron wants to be a Producer of movies.  He is doing Space Jam.  He was working on this plan for years. He wants to be a billionaire.  To him that  required being in the 2nd biggest market in the NBA.

Part of the allure of Golden State aside from Winning is the proximity to Silicon Valley and the opportunity to invest in so many tech start-ups.
Title: Knicks Window to Compete
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 03:26:19 PM
Golden State's nucleus are all around 29-30 years old.  Steph and KD are 30.  Even if they keep everyone their window to win is 3 more years.

By the time the Knicks are ready to compete (not this year obviously, and next year is the first baby step) the path to winning will look different.

We don't have to build a team to beat the Warriors... but we will have somebody to target. 

Who do you think that team will be?  Boston?  Philly?  The Clippers?!
Title: From Fizz With Love
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 04:56:57 PM
Apologies to Facile & KamSandwich:

Mike Vorkunov: David Fizdale is enjoying coaching Enes Kanter. “How do you not like Enes? For me, he’s like our spirit. He keeps our gym light…And thinking about what he and his family is going through, the fact that he can come in here and still have enough energy to give to us? I love him.” pic.twitter.com/Ub0gNAImAM
http://twitter.com/MikeVorkunov/status/1045761112187252738
– via Twitter MikeVorkunov
Title: Enes is a Knick
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 05:11:59 PM
I'm glad the coach likes him

He is the worst defensive C in the L
Title: JoNo wants out
Post by: Kam on September 28, 2018, 05:12:40 PM
Give back some money dude!
Title: Re: Enes is a Knick
Post by: chipstern on September 28, 2018, 05:13:49 PM
I'm glad the coach likes him

He is the worst defensive C in the L

Glad Fizz is the coach and you're only the GM. 
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 06:49:19 PM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

You just earned the first IGNORE of the season

1 week - see ya
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 28, 2018, 07:10:52 PM
Tim Hardaway JUNIOR!!

True Dat. 

However,  I don't think we would consider Timmy as a Tier 1 Free Agent, along the lines of, oh, Klay Thompson. 



I am not touching Thompson at 25 mil

Will be interesting to see what he can do if he has to be anything close to a lead guy.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on September 28, 2018, 10:32:42 PM
I think the fact that he doesn't want to be the lead guy tells you everything you need to know about that question.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 29, 2018, 09:02:29 AM
Butler is a high mileage 29 (heavy minutes under Thibs) and just had some knee issues.  And his game relies on athleticism more than LMA's. 

I think the last year of his max deal would be something like $42M during his age 34 campaign (but that's without looking anything up).

I also hold his bullshit attitude the past two seasons/teams against him.  But there's no question he has talent and plays hard.  Which is why you have a rumoured 20 teams asking about him.

All-Defensive 2nd team 4 of the past 5 years.

Okay

Latest rumor?

Rockets making a push for Butler. 

Here is a trade that works for both teams, though Houston comes out ahead, for sure. 

Eric Gordon, JP Tucker, Brandon Knight and a #1

FOR

Jimmy Butler & Gorgui Dieng. 

Minny gets rid of Dieng and his contract, which is purportedly a priority, receive a starting SG, a solid defensive sixth man wing in PJ Tucker, and a point on Knight. 

Butler becomes Houston's starting SF. 

Paul-Harden-Butler-Anthony-Capella

Dieng off the bench at PF and C.

Perhaps some combo of Speights or Green or Carter-Williams sweetens the pot...extra draft picks...

I suppose this is a legit offer, but Minny asking Philly for Ben Simmons would signal delusions of grandeur. 

And this trade would turn Houston into a conference juggernaut, capable of nuking the likes of Minnesota for next two-three years. 

Still, only way the number work are with Gordon-Tucker-Knight and taking back Dieng. 

Perhaps if another team was involved, such as the Kings. 

Anyway, something for all of you Trader Vics to contemplate.

Trade violates the CBA - Knight cannot be packaged with another player in a trade right now. Rockets can't put up a package right now where they take on Dieng.
Title: Re: JoNo wants out
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 29, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
Give back some money dude!

Unless Facil is correct about being able to buy back the stretch (not my reading of the CBA), Noah needs to give back a significant amount of money to make this worthwhile for the Knicks, imo.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on September 29, 2018, 07:15:35 PM
Houston clearly not shy about going for it this year.

i would think Knight would not be in the final deal.

who knows.

i am happy we are not involved.

we are a auditioning players for the future and developing a culture.

no one has a lock on playing time until KP returns and we work him back in slowly.  very refreshing.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 30, 2018, 01:31:47 AM
Houston clearly not shy about going for it this year.

i would think Knight would not be in the final deal.

who knows.

Again, Knight cannot be included in the deal right now as it would involve other players heading out from Houston.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: thebizneverloses on September 30, 2018, 01:35:44 AM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

I think THJr and especially Enes can be written in by Sharpie; they're locks, irrespective of what Fiz says about all spots up for grabs.

I doubt Big Mitch will start the season in the rotation.

If I had to guess the opening night 9-man:

Burke/THJr/Courtly/Hezonja/Enes
Mudiay/Frank le Franc/Knox/Vonleh

It's a pretty inexperienced crew. Loads of new players, most of the guys don't know how to defend. There's skill and enthusiasm there, but I expect a very, very slow start.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 03:50:48 AM
Trey
Frank
Kevin
Mario
Mitch


6th man: THjr
7th man: Enes
8th man: Lee

I think THJr and especially Enes can be written in by Sharpie; they're locks, irrespective of what Fiz says about all spots up for grabs.

I doubt Big Mitch will start the season in the rotation.

If I had to guess the opening night 9-man:

Burke/THJr/Courtly/Hezonja/Enes
Mudiay/Frank le Franc/Knox/Vonleh

It's a pretty inexperienced crew. Loads of new players, most of the guys don't know how to defend. There's skill and enthusiasm there, but I expect a very, very slow start.

Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: bodiddley on September 30, 2018, 10:09:43 AM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 11:16:31 AM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.

I get the impression that Fizz is going to deploy a deep rotation, mix and match, with defense a deciding factor. 

Initially, we may be crappy, but the goal is to be scrappy. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on September 30, 2018, 02:02:47 PM
all you want defense but only i have mitch in for enes

and frank for THjr

y'all pay lip service to D

---

I'm a "The future is now" guy.

If Mitch is the future... play him now.

You can't do that in every league.  But in the NBA you can.

Why do anything half-way?   

We went young for a reason.

There are only - according to fizz- 5 low post threats in the NBA that mitch would be overmatched against.

Newsflash... so would anyone else on our squad.
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2018, 02:39:21 PM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.

I get the impression that Fizz is going to deploy a deep rotation, mix and match, with defense a deciding factor. 

Initially, we may be crappy, but the goal is to be scrappy.

We will win our share

IF we put the ball in the bucket

OFFENSE RULES!
Title: Re: My Lineup
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 04:36:48 PM
Kanter-Hezonja-Knox-Timmy-Burke

That's about what I expect.
But man is that a terrible defensive team.
Who's your stopper on the 1st unit?  Rook Knox?  Tim Jr.?
Looks untenable.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see Lance (or Vonleh) start.

I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh
Mud & Kornet would have to make a case for themselves or be used situationally.  Vonleh too more or less.

Quote
Kornet-Thomas-Lee-Frank-Mudiay

Don't think you can have 3 defenders all off the pine.
And our 4th defensive player, Vonleh, out of the rotation.

My Franc/Tim & Burke/Courtly pairings balances scoring with D.
Works if Tim (and Franc) have upped their ballhandling some.

I get the impression that Fizz is going to deploy a deep rotation, mix and match, with defense a deciding factor. 

Initially, we may be crappy, but the goal is to be scrappy.

We will win our share

IF we put the ball in the bucket

OFFENSE RULES!

Hey, nothing ventured, nothing gained. 
   
Stefan Bondy: Fizdale says he has not settled on a starting lineup for tomorrow’s game. Worth noting though the players in blue jerseys at practice: Burke, Hardaway, Knox, Hezonja, Kanter.
– via Twitter SBondyNYDN


Ever notice how getting your offense in gear influences your defense? 

Fizz wants to up the pace. 

We'll take our lumps, for sure, but I like that as a starting lineup. 

PS: Howdy, Kam: Robinson is a wonderful prospect, with a world of upside, but your are delusional if you project him beating out Kanter.  And just because Enes likes the kid, and is all in with a mentoring role, does not mean he will not kick his ass from end to end.  PROCESS?  Respect it.  Enes WANTS TO BE A KNICK.  Get over it, haters. 

PPS: Enes also a Turkish patriot, which to me is more significant than is "defensive" shortcomings.  He is a man on a young team.  Underestimate him at your peril.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on September 30, 2018, 04:41:38 PM
Well....its easier to play from ahead, if that is what you mean.

I think playing SMART defense is important.  Limit fouling, hold teams to 1 shot, defend the arc.

The latest lineup you posted sure looks like it is slanted toward scoring.

Fizz and Kid8 - sympatico

heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on September 30, 2018, 04:44:24 PM
Well....its easier to play from ahead, if that is what you mean.

I think playing SMART defense is important.  Limit fouling, hold teams to 1 shot, defend the arc.

The latest lineup you posted sure looks like it is slanted toward scoring.

Fizz and Kid8 - sympatico

heh

Kiid and Shaman.  Same page? 

Huh?

Strange bedfellows. 

Smart defense is 90% effort and commitment. 

PS: Very gratified to see how all of Burke's work in G League and that wonderful run he had the last month of the season has carried over.  And that competition with Frank and Emmanuel will only make us better...them, too. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2018, 07:57:52 AM
Scalabrine:

"People talk about Knox and some other guys, but THIS guy comes NBA ready.  Its only 2 games, but......"

- on MILES BRIDGES, who took the freakish on ball defending big Robert Williams off the dribble on a designed play for a key hoop late.

Scal and Isola also remind us to be careful of summer league stars, citing (MVP) Josh Hart's 2-5, -23 performance last night.

Notes 7-14 from Ingram and 8-10, 17 and 7 from McGee in 20 minutes as positives for LA - and notes all the negative +/- for LA while LBJ was at a +1.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 01, 2018, 11:09:42 AM
Lance and Franc are triangle left-overs and offensive liabilities.


---I would probably go with:
Franc - Tim Jr. - Knox - Lance - Kanter
2nd unit: Burke - Courtly - 'Zonja - Vonleh ---
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 01, 2018, 11:44:17 AM
We don't have a good team and Franc's a pup.
I'd like to see him get at least half a season at starting PG.
Whether that's to open the campaign or after KZ returns.
I want Franc to have a real opp to play PG with the starters.

I have both Franc and Knox starting, so our yute gets thrown in the mix and take their lumps and hopefully learn and develop.  Those two and KZ are hopefully our future.

Burke is a more advanced offensive player at this stage, but he projects as a backup PG, so I'd let him refine that role.  Though you could argue that starting now will make Burke a better backup PG when he returns to that role after the Knix get a legit starting quality PG.

Then there's also Muddy, who is an ending contract, so you need to either trade him or get him out there and see what he can do.  I'd be looking to toss Mud into any Courtly deals.  it's not going to be easy for Fizz to give minutes and confidence to Burke/Franc/Mud, especially if Courtly is primarily used at SG (if not traded).

Lance is the closest thing we have to a glue guy.  He hustles and knows what to do.  he's not overly skilled but has some 3&D qualities to him.  I like him as a steady the ship kind of guy, preferably off the bench, as our team improves.  As a starter, he provides some continuity and defense, which most of our other starting options lack.

I'm open to starting Vonleh, but he's new to the team and was terrible early in his career.  Really looked like he didn't know much about hoops.  Seems he improved as a defender and boarder last year, and I don't really know where he is now.

If we had a better team/set of starters, I wouldn't mind starting Zonja as a confidence builder.  But it seems unlikely that Knox and Zonja could defend well enough, especially paired with Kanter.

My starting lineup tosses out 2 defenders, 2 offenders and rook (with 2-way potential, but still a rook).  I get 2 young'uns court time.

Otherwise I'm amused by kam's notion that starting a 2nd round rook equates with a defensive focus. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 01, 2018, 01:15:06 PM
Only great defenders - despite and offensive woes - can project as starters, after all.

Uh-huh
Title: Expectations--We're #1?
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 02:51:24 PM
Curious

2018 NBA Draft

#9 Knox
#36 Robinson

2017 NBA Draft

#8 Ntilinkina
#44 Dotson

2015 NBA Draft

#4 Porzingis
#5 Hezonja
#7 Mudiay

2014 NBA Draft

#9 Vonleh

2013 NBA Draft

#9 Burke
#24 Hardaway

2011 NBA Draft

#3 Kanter
Title: Fizdale's Initial Starting Lineup For Monday, October 1
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 03:30:43 PM
C: Enes Kanter
PF: Lance Thomas
SF: Kevin Knox
SG: Tim Hardaway
PG: Trey Burke

Utah Jazz during the nascent days of the Eaton/Malone/Stockton Era, used to have an offensively gifted SF/PF name of Thurl Bailey. 

However, early on in his development, the Jazz used to start Mark Iavorani, a smaller and more defensively oriented SF/PF, and have Bailey, who got more cumulative minutes at SF, and offered more offensive fire power, come off the bench. 

One of the challenges Fizdale faces, is finding minutes for everyone, and divining a balance of offense and defense. 

Nothing is written in stone, vis a vis who starts, who comes off of the bench, and who finishes. 

But this lineup makes a certain amount of sense. 

Hezonja can come off of the bench to spell either Knox or Thomas at SF/PF, giving him an opportunity to find his rhythm against less daunting second unit players.  Likewise, Vonleh at PF say with Kornet at center, or, oh, say Robinson at center with Hezonja at PF. 

Having watched a number of Hezonja highlight reels from 2017-2018, when he finally saw some daylight for the Orlando Magic, I have a feeling that Perry's role of the dice might work out for Mario and the Knicks.  How his defense evolves, remains to be seen, but he is a lights out fucking shooter from the perimeter, moves well without the ball, and can create off of the dribble. 

Fingers crossed. 

Now, how Fizz deploys Frank and Emmanuel, let alone Dotson and Lee (and Trier) off of the bench, represents another interesting subtext. 

How to find minutes for everyone, minutes earned, presumably, yet keeping everyone involved and in some semblance of rhythm, is a big challenge...not to tamp down anyone's competitive fire. 

We shall see. 

Summer is gone, and the Knicks are here, and all those dog days of speculation draw to a close, as we may now have some empirical evidence as to what we've got, and how Fizz pushes everyone's buttons and manages the team. 

And can he succeed where coach after coach after coach has failed miserably--ESTABLISHING A DEFENSIVE CULTURE. 

I, personally, will be paying particular attention to opposing three point shooters, an area where other teams relished coming into the GARDEN to pad their stats and add to their highlight reels. 
Title: My lineup
Post by: Kam on October 01, 2018, 07:50:17 PM
Was who should start.  Not who I predict will start.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 01, 2018, 09:59:46 PM
clearly we should be the favorites in the East .
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 01, 2018, 10:32:37 PM
Chris Dudley enters the Kavanaugh conversation (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/09/26/chris-dudley-never-saw-brett-kavanaugh-blacked-out-drunk/1436058002/).
And . . . another missed FT.

Looks like Chris protests too much...should have spent less time in bars and more time working on his free throws: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/us/politics/kavanaugh-bar-fight.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/us/politics/kavanaugh-bar-fight.html)

Title: The Fizz Kids
Post by: chipstern on October 01, 2018, 10:56:26 PM
I loves me some David Fizdale. 
Title: Re: Expectations--We're #1?
Post by: Kam on October 02, 2018, 12:11:31 AM
Curious

2018 NBA Draft

#9 Knox
#36 Robinson

2017 NBA Draft

#8 Ntilinkina
#44 Dotson

2015 NBA Draft

#4 Porzingis
#5 Hezonja
#7 Mudiay

2014 NBA Draft

#9 Vonleh

2013 NBA Draft

#9 Burke
#24 Hardaway

2011 NBA Draft

#3 Kanter

Couple of the guys listed were #2 picks.

But aside from the fact we have collected some first round talent there isn't anything particularly remarkable there

Lots of teams have first rounders and the fact is we have no Top 3 picks except Enes Kanter


Wizards:

John Wall #1 pick first rd
Bradley Beal #3 pick first rd
Otto Porter #3 pick first rd



It's not how many past first rounders you can acquire.  A patient rebuild requires a more cast-iron stomach.  And get REALLY BAD before you get good.

We (the Knicks) always play both sides of the fence.... "let's try to make the playoffs with a team going nowhere" year after year after year
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 08:46:16 AM
Taylor has options

But would you call Butler's bluff, refuse to pay him, rather than work a deal?

I would, if I didn't like the deal.

But a Brooklyn deal mentioned yesterday did seem plenty fair.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 08:51:31 AM
Re:  our approach

A 4, 8, 9 and lets say 10 pick in successive drafts plus a great NBA vet to cash in plus tons of cap space should be plenty.

Many teams go the rock bottom route and never get good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 11:47:40 AM
Fultz playing WITH Simmons last night - Redick off the bench

Eltom Brand has said the quest is for that third big player, mentioning "Markelle" and "Dario", emphasis on Fultzie

Payton and Holiday also playing (starting) together in New O
Title: And Here's To You, Mitchell Robinson
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 12:43:35 PM
Nice effort by our Skinny Shaq last night. 

Running the floor and being in position to be the recipient of a couple of really sweet passes in the paint by Hezonja and a wonderful long lob on the run from Mudiay. 

As per his "confrontation" with Morris, I was struck by how he didn't back down, yet still kept his cool.  On the sequence in which MM got tossed, the Wizards PF was jabbering away in his ear, trying to, I don't know, if not provoke him, let the rook know who the fuck you think you messin' with, boy, and Mitchell kind of turned his back on him and refused to take the bait, and finally in walking away from the MF, he put up his hands as if to say NO MAS, with a big smile on his face as if to say, "Hey, Ref, it ain't me engaging," at which point MM got tossed. 

I was struck by what a chill, mature response that was, and how while the rook stood up for himself, he didn't take the bait. 

PS: Alonzo Trier looked very resourceful with the ball, in creating for himself, and was the one player Fizdale singled out as having a hall pass from his one second to create, nothing there, pass the ball down the line.  And Damyean Dotson looked good in OT, ringing up points.  Glad to see Baker getting a shot as well, besides the one in his eye (using his own saliva as a saline solution to re-insert his contact lenses).  My rook PG from Morehouse, Walker, was a turnover machine (and got waived today)  Still, Fizz gave him a good long look, despite clearly being ticketed for the G-League, along with everyone at the tail end of the roster, including Hicks, who looked quicker and more decisive (Vonleh looked interesting as well...bigger than I recall).  Anyway, plenty of work to do, particularly on the boards, and while one doesn't want to get all giddy over a pre-season game, I liked the pace at which The Fizz Kids are pressing the action, and how the coach is keeping everyone in the moment and involved and rooting for each other with a deep rotation. 

PPS: Waiving Walker means the Knicks can get forward Jeff Coby into camp, while still leaning on Noah to give back more money.  Can't quite gauge is Knicks told Noah not to show up or if he declined to show up, but considering the Knicks never dicked around with his money, coming off his suspension/mutual sabbatical following the Hornacek Dustup, it would seem the Knicks are committed to getting Noah to lighten up on his buyout demands/aspirations.  We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Nagel on October 02, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
the Super Mario signing may turn into one of our best deals.

the kid can play.  obviously he is not going to start once KP returns but he could be our third forward ( behind KP and Knox) capable of playing the 3 or the  4 giving us a shooter as either position.

he has a great opportunity this year to show what he can do.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 01:12:11 PM
Watching some of the replay.
Tim Jr looked bad.
Uber-Kelly looked good.

Knix fouled a lot.
Knox looked good.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 01:12:46 PM
Porzingis plays the 5, so Mario slots right in when Kanter leaves.

Only problem is he is on a one year deal.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 01:13:33 PM
Watching some of the replay.
Tim Jr looked bad.
Uber-Kelly looked good.

Knix fouled a lot.
Knox looked good.

He always does
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
Just pre-season, but it'd be nice to see Tim look like a vet and play smart.

Trier has some razzle.
I always enjoy watching Ron Baker play.
Title: Re: Expectations--We're #1?
Post by: luee on October 02, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
Curious

2018 NBA Draft

#9 Knox
#36 Robinson

2017 NBA Draft

#8 Ntilinkina
#44 Dotson

2015 NBA Draft

#4 Porzingis
#5 Hezonja
#7 Mudiay

2014 NBA Draft

#9 Vonleh

2013 NBA Draft

#9 Burke
#24 Hardaway

2011 NBA Draft

#3 Kanter

Couple of the guys listed were #2 picks.

But aside from the fact we have collected some first round talent there isn't anything particularly remarkable there

Lots of teams have first rounders and the fact is we have no Top 3 picks except Enes Kanter


Wizards:

John Wall #1 pick first rd
Bradley Beal #3 pick first rd
Otto Porter #3 pick first rd



It's not how many past first rounders you can acquire.  A patient rebuild requires a more cast-iron stomach.  And get REALLY BAD before you get good.

We (the Knicks) always play both sides of the fence.... "let's try to make the playoffs with a team going nowhere" year after year after year

It seems to work, last year you have Beasley and Burke producing. Salvaging a highly rated draft choice is a big deal at little cost. That is where the GM comes in. Any big redemptions on the knix in the recent past?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 01:47:44 PM
Just pre-season, but it'd be nice to see Tim look like a vet and paly smart.

Trier has some razzle.
I always enjoy watching Ron Baker play.

Tim only connecting on 1-6 from three. 

But 2-2 and 4-5/FT for 11 points in 12 minutes and a +5. 

Still has a tendency to hold on to the rock, at least on the possessions I saw (missed most of the first quarter).  Better to keep the ball moving around the horn and get it back in some sort of rhythm. 

Getting to the line five times in the space of 12 minutes a reasonable sign...fruit not falling from the outside, take it to the rack. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 02, 2018, 02:17:28 PM
I just hope Tim will play up to his contract and age, and it won't be another year of excuses.
With KZ out, Tim has the op to lead the team in scoring and shots.
It'd also be nice to see him lead some.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 02, 2018, 02:22:25 PM
Only the first PS game but KK looks like the real thing, fills up the stat line.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 02, 2018, 02:23:30 PM
Hello all - are we ready for the first day of class?

Just watched last nights game.

Knox is going to be a star once he fully develops. His ability to grab a rebound and push the pace will lead to a lot of fast break points we were missing last season. I like how aggressive he was going after boards and the jumper looked smooth. He could end up leading the team in scoring this season until KP comes back.

Robinson showed what we saw in summer league against actual NBA talent. This kid is a game changer and I'm excited to see how he develops. Loved seeing him get under Morris' skin and show no fear. He will be a nuisance for opposing bigs. I can't wait to see what a Robinson and KP front court looks like.

Frank played his game which is fine by me. The team is just better when he is on the court because of his defense and making the right plays. We dont need him to be an offensive juggernaut to be successful. I did like that pull up 3 in transition during the 3rd quarter run. He has a knack for hitting big shots.

I really wish THJ would stop shooting so many quick pull up 3s. He is so good when he uses his athleticism to get to the basket. He should play more of a Dwayne Wade type of game.

Kanter doing what Kanter does. We know what he will bring this season. Was hoping to see that jumper he has been working on but he didn't really play much this game.

Trey didn't have the best game but I am still confident in him being the starting PG this season. He will make sure to establish a high pace and get this team running in transition. Love how he finds a way to get to the rim and find his spots on the floor.

Man I want to see Mudiay succeed but I'm losing faith he has what it takes to take the game serious enough to be an impact player. He is still doing to much instead of using a simple move to finish. He constantly puts himself in worse spots then he should be which result in crazy layups and pass outs. His mistakes are coachable but is he?

I think Hezonia is going to fit perfectly on this team in a high pace system as he becomes more comfortable with his teammates. I want to see him starting at some point.

Lance looks fully healthy and determined to start the season on a good note. Hopefully his 3 point shooting will be back to where it was a few seasons ago. I like him as a leader for this young team.

Trier is most definitely an NBA caliber player. He will carve himself a role off the bench for this team.

Vonleh is a straight up bully beast. Smith got the better of him a couple of times but Vonleh pushed him around like a small child. His ability to pound it down low and still knock down the 3 is nice off the bench. Showed off some nice handles as well on one play as well. Give me the occasional Vonleh-Kanter bully front court please.

Dotson will have his ups and down but he sure has confidence in himself. He looked better this game than he did all of preseason. He has a place on this team.

Love me some Ron Baker. He usually has the least amount of natural talent on the floor but always puts himself in the right place, makes the right reads and just plays hard. Keep him on this team! We need his IQ to rub off on the young guys. Baker will make a great coach someday if he chooses to go that route when his playing days are done.

I like Kornet but I just dont see him beating out Vonleh for a spot.

The rest of the guys can go work on their games in Westchester.
Title: Fort Knox
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 03:41:40 PM
Yes, Kevin Knox. 

(https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.21315223.1538282287!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_768/image.jpg)

My Goodness. 

(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/140508-joe-louis-eisenstaedt-crop.jpg?w=720)

NOTE: Is it just me, or does Kevin Knox look like a young Joe Louis Barrow on stilts?  

To those still obsessing over Timmy and Ron's contracts and reflexively calling out Mills and Perry as idiots?

* The Anthony Trade

* Trey Burke

* DAVID FIZDALE

* Kevin Knox

* Mitchell Robinson

* Alonzo Trier

* Mario Hezonja

* The Butler Trade

Mills and Perry looked at last year's personnel and coaching staff, decided we were not athletic enough to compete and needed a new direction in terms of leadership going forward. 

We need to see more of Mudiay and Vonleh, but I was encouraged by what I saw with both.  Mudiay still seems confounding in terms of finishing, but I liked his energy, his intensity, how he pushed the pace and how he teamed with French Frank.  Vonleh looks to be a legit physical presence and rebounder with a good motor.  So those two moves could also work out on the + side.

Don't know if there is even a roster space for Hicks, but he looks to have progressed in terms of speed and focus.  And Fizz obviously really likes Trier and showed a lot of 3-guard looks last night. 

C: Kanter, Robinson, [NOAH]
C/PF: Porzingis, Kornet
PF/SF: Thomas, Vonleh, Hicks
SF/PF: Knox, Hezonja
SG/SF: Hardaway, Lee, Dotson, Trier
PG/SG: Burke, Ntilikina, Mudiay, Baker

Looks like Hicks & Trier, our 2-Way/G-League Contracts could be Westchester Bound. 

Unless it comes down to a Baker or Trier decision.  And Baker showed good energy and toughness last night.  So...oh, and we have yet to hear from Courtney Lee, a solid veteran presence, in any event...though obviously he has trade value. 

Also, Noah needs to be resolved before opening night, right?  Contract still a factor in the Final Fifteen. 

Last fall, Carmelo's situation did not get resolved until what, a day or two before the beginning of training camp? 

So who knows what machinations remain from our freckle-faced GM, Commodore Perry. 
Title: Consistency
Post by: Kam on October 02, 2018, 04:08:21 PM
With all young and developing players you will see flashes of potential and suffer their mistakes. 
And our whole team is young basically.
And they don't have a lot of experience playing as a unit. 
And its the first pre-season game. 
First time going against opposing coaching and opposing players.

So i'm not going to make any statements about anyone off one game.
But i thought Knox looked bigger than he did in SL.
And Lance looks the part of leader, filling out the uniform, all grown up now.

The offense and the defense will both improve with more reps.
Let's look for and demand consistency out of the 8-10 man rotation of guys. 
If 9 and 10 aren't being consistent rotate in 11 and 12.
Title: Re: Consistency
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 04:56:07 PM
With all young and developing players you will see flashes of potential and suffer their mistakes. 
And our whole team is young basically.
And they don't have a lot of experience playing as a unit. 
And its the first pre-season game. 
First time going against opposing coaching and opposing players.

So i'm not going to make any statements about anyone off one game.
But i thought Knox looked bigger than he did in SL.
And Lance looks the part of leader, filling out the uniform, all grown up now.

The offense and the defense will both improve with more reps.
Let's look for and demand consistency out of the 8-10 man rotation of guys. 
If 9 and 10 aren't being consistent rotate in 11 and 12.

I believe Fizz is inclined to go deep into his bench.

A) To push the pace and keep fresh greyhounds on the floor

B) To keep everyone's head in the game and to never take his foot off the pedal, vis a vis, competition

C) To hold out his trump card, which is DEFENSE, and the need to play it. 

PS: I was really proud of our three rookies last night.  Trier is a sleeper who reminds me of, don't laugh, Dwayne Wade, in terms of being able to create his own shot.  Robinson is just a freak, and I dare say Fizz wakes up in the middle of the night wondering what he did to deserve such a gift from the basketball Gods...and who plays with a little bit of a chip on his shoulder.  And Fort Knox?  Above and beyond his talent, which is everything John Calipari said it was, Kevin Know is COACHABLE.  Fizz keeps tossing challenges his way, and Kevin responds.  Given, he is still only 19, and has many BIG CHALLENGES and SLAP DOWNS a-coming, but he is the kind of kid who will wipe the custard pie from his face, come roaring down the floor, and answer back.  Kevin is MATURE beyond his years, and apros my obsessions with keeping our #1 picks and ignoring shiny objects, assuming KP takes the year off, or least ways, spends the season healing only to come back in the final few weeks a la Bernard King, Kevin Knox has the game and the aspirational maturity to emerge as a team leader.  FINALLY, A BIT OF LUCK. Luck being the residue of design.  RESPECT THE PROCESS.  P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 06:48:26 PM
I can see Bo at the Garden

"C Mon Tim play up to your age!"

Heh
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 06:51:04 PM
Still have no idea why anyone thinks Porzingis will take the year or even half a year off.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 07:57:54 PM
Still have no idea why anyone thinks Porzingis will take the year or even half a year off.

Perhaps because he has the luxury of doing so. 

The Knicks have factored that in. 

Also, consider how it could benefit him for the team to divine a legitimate up tempo style and winning culture, and him airlift in as if, not a savior, but, a gifted free agent. 

No, I do not see Kristaps staying away if he feels ready and the doctors give him the AOK, but there is something to be said for letting the soup simmer a while, before adding the meat.

Again, let our pups develop a legit chemistry, and not be looking over their shoulders for The Savior. 

LesterDawg, who is the forum Bernard King Scholar, would know.  How many games did The King come back to play at the tail end of his TWO YEAR REHAB? 

Missed 23 games at the tail end of the 1984-1985 season in which he got injured and was averaging 32.5 ppg (Cartwright was out with his foot injury).

All of the following year. 

1986-1987, came back for the final six games. 

For KP, I'd day a number of factors play into the team's decision, such as, are we a playoff or a lottery team? 

Anyway, we shall see, and Kevin Knox has all the motivation in the world to step up to be the bell cow in KP's absence, and for the team to develop a template for him to step into. 

I am in no damn rush.  That was a nasty injury. 

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 02, 2018, 09:05:05 PM
Still have no idea why anyone thinks Porzingis will take the year or even half a year off.

LesterDawg, who is the forum Bernard King Scholar, would know.  How many games did The King come back to play at the tail end of his TWO YEAR REHAB? 

Missed 23 games at the tail end of the 1984-1985 season in which he got injured and was averaging 32.5 ppg (Cartwright was out with his foot injury).

All of the following year. 

1986-1987, came back for the final six games. 



And I was in the Garden the night he came back :)

Maybe I'll try to be there for KP's return...3 decades later, yow...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 02, 2018, 09:05:39 PM
YOW!

** yeah, I'm not in a rush either, been doing this for 5 decades, can wait til he's good and ready.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 02, 2018, 09:52:38 PM
YOW!

** yeah, I'm not in a rush either, been doing this for 5 decades, can wait til he's good and ready.

Good

&

READY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 02, 2018, 11:03:25 PM
Good to have ya back, Pharoah

What's a crazy pass out?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 12:00:08 AM
"(Ron Baker) usually has the least amount of talent on the floor."

Well..... he is white.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 02:25:15 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.


As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 09:25:52 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.


As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:34:36 AM
Trying to ignore the incessant knocking of Hardaway

Last year when THJ had the awesome ten, fifteen game run you were mostly silent.

heh

Simply stated - Hardaway does things on the court that coaches look for.

Quick first step, beat a man - score or  pass off, start the ball rotation for the open J

Advance the ball quickly, leading to a quick opp.

Get in the passing lane, muck up an opponent's set, even if not done 100% technically proper

And yes - VOLUME score.

NONE of this other than the points per minute is statline stuff.

But go ahead - focus on the shooting % and call Tim a  "poor defender" all year.  Its cool.  Its now expected of you

Even when his % gets well above acceptable levels and he is (easily) in the top 40 in league scoring you will be calling him out for his contract or some other crap.

Oh well, just another year on the forum.  Tell me again about Frank's long arms.  (oy)

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
Between Oct. 29 and Jan. 30, Hardaway averaged 19.2 points, 4.6 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.4 steals, and 2.6 three-point field goals made on a slash line of .456/.363/.802.

In the 21 games that followed Hardaway’s early February woes, he averaged 19.7 points on a slash line of .448/.338/.891.

If one combines those 46 games, Hardaway averaged 19.5 points, 4.2 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.2 steals, and 2.6 three-point field goals made on a slash line of .452/.351/.839. Those averages would certainly warrant the contract he was given, or at least something close to it.



https://dailyknicks.com/2018/07/24/new-york-knicks-quick-write-tim-hardaway-jr/ (https://dailyknicks.com/2018/07/24/new-york-knicks-quick-write-tim-hardaway-jr/)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 09:55:39 AM
Lakers chose WAGNER over Mitchell Robinson

"I didn't even know there was a Mitchell on their team," Morris said. “He’s a stupid-ass rookie talking too much... I'm supposed to be a bigger person, but what he said crossed the line as a man."



May be why.  And why Mitch didnt want to go to college, where you are expected to behave.

Character, young fellows.

Knicks got their athlete.  But.........CHARACTER counts - and I am not even willing to call this a work in progress.  I think many teams may have passed because of this.

Isaac BONGA  sure looks good about now.....as does Chimeze Metu
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.


As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.

Not too many true "leaders" in this sport, Les.  Tim's gonna play hard, produce.   Others have to take care of their own shit.  If his effort rubs off.......... hell - the young guys should be giving effort anyway.  Not sure what it is you want to be taught.  How to dress on the road, maybe?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 10:37:24 AM
Who made a higher percentage of 2-point shots last year -

Tim Hardaway Jr or Jayson Tatum?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2018, 11:14:32 AM
Mario could take Hardaway’s starting spot by the end of preseason. Dotson could as well, though that seems less likely.

Kanter, Thomas, and Knox are far along in locking up starting spots. The backcourt right now seems more up for grabs.

Character is a big reason why MitchRob will be our long term starter along side KP, displacing Kanter.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 11:20:36 AM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.


As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.

Not too many true "leaders" in this sport, Les.  Tim's gonna play hard, produce.   Others have to take care of their own shit.  If his effort rubs off.......... hell - the young guys should be giving effort anyway.  Not sure what it is you want to be taught.  How to dress on the road, maybe?

I'm not saying he's formed, but stating honestly what I see before my eyes. Hints of a leaky head, but no definitive proof. Two times in his career he's begun to face real NBA pressure — Hawks playoffs and Knicks scramble for the playoffs last year, he's disappeared — That is WAY TOO SHORT to be called a track record, and I am by no means predicting. He's had some good stretches. He needs a good season. Love to see him have one.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 03, 2018, 12:33:19 PM
Hardaway won’t stop a team from treading water. He might even be a slightly above average player. Nothing wrong with Tim as long as you keep your expectations low.
Title: Kiid
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 12:37:48 PM
I found your breakdown of Timmy compelling.

I found your dismissal of Robinson.  BIZARRE. 

Were we watching the same game? 

Character? 

Whatever Robinson said to upset MM, in the end, he responded to Morris' schoolyard taunts by walking away.  MM got tossed.  Very mature. 

But then, we have a standing watch, do we not, in which you are well documented as pooh-poohing forum enthusiasm for our bean pole, having asserted as to how Robinson was headed for G-League, right? 

Wagner was a nice collegiate.  I liked him. 

Think the Lakers might want a Mulligan? 

We shall see. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 03, 2018, 12:42:23 PM
If one combines those 46 games, Hardaway averaged 19.5 points, 4.2 rebounds, 2.9 assists, 1.2 steals, and 2.6 three-point field goals made on a slash line of .452/.351/.839. Those averages would certainly warrant the contract he was given, or at least something close to it.

So for half a season he was almost an average 3-point shooter.
(I think league average is up to 36% now).
And that's supposed to be his strength.
So I guess he earned half his salary ...

Really if his shot selection improved, his %'s would be up, probably his confidence too.  He is streaky and can get hot.  But it doesn't last.  He's also equally slump prone.  A legit PG that could help Tim's game. 

If Tim's going to make any strides, this year and next are crucial.  Funny, I also had a JEarl comparison in my head but decided not to stir things up by typing it out.  Probably he's just best as a 3rd option (or a bench Lou Williams/Craw type role). 

Otherwise, I'll have to keep an eye out for how meaningful his boards and assists are.  And look for him busting up set plays with his defensive acumen.  Hopefully he stops getting beat on backdoor baseline cuts this year.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 03, 2018, 01:45:49 PM
Hardaway's biggest problem, going back to Michigan, has been consistency. He'll give you months, he'll give you bad ones. Not games, months.
Title: Re: Kiid
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:05:08 PM
I found your breakdown of Timmy compelling.

I found your dismissal of Robinson.  BIZARRE. 

Were we watching the same game? 

Character? 

Whatever Robinson said to upset MM, in the end, he responded to Morris' schoolyard taunts by walking away.  MM got tossed.  Very mature. 

But then, we have a standing watch, do we not, in which you are well documented as pooh-poohing forum enthusiasm for our bean pole, having asserted as to how Robinson was headed for G-League, right? 

Wagner was a nice collegiate.  I liked him. 

Think the Lakers might want a Mulligan? 

We shall see.

I didnt watch the game
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:08:00 PM
Ron Baker has a solid all-around game.
Nothing stands out, but no great flaws either.
I like his hustle and smarts.


As for Tim, some guys develop late.  Usually at PG and C which have extra responsibilities.  But wings tend to find their groove relatively early and stick with it.  Except for those guys you can see improving every year with a definite upward trajectory. There are probably exceptions.

Tim really needs to expand his game (he's shown flashes) and develop consistency.  I'm concerned he's going to be 26 then 28 then 30 and still erratic.  Needs to stay healthy too.

Really at this point, signs point toward a J.R.-lite. Not crazy, but erratic and insecure with flashes of the good stuff, much less talented than J.R. however. He may surprise us and mature, may produce at some point if surrounded by strong leadership on the floor (we don't have that now), but whoever posited him this summer as potential leader himself for the younger players was out of his f'n head.

Not too many true "leaders" in this sport, Les.  Tim's gonna play hard, produce.   Others have to take care of their own shit.  If his effort rubs off.......... hell - the young guys should be giving effort anyway.  Not sure what it is you want to be taught.  How to dress on the road, maybe?

I'm not saying he's formed, but stating honestly what I see before my eyes. Hints of a leaky head, but no definitive proof. Two times in his career he's begun to face real NBA pressure — Hawks playoffs and Knicks scramble for the playoffs last year, he's disappeared — That is WAY TOO SHORT to be called a track record, and I am by no means predicting. He's had some good stretches. He needs a good season. Love to see him have one.

All indications are that Hardaway Jr is a "pro's pro".  Works diligently at his craft, respects fans and the press, good teammate.

I think you should proceed accordingly with him.  That's all.  Paint a nicer pic.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:10:05 PM
Mario could take Hardaway’s starting spot by the end of preseason. Dotson could as well, though that seems less likely.




Troll.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 03:14:21 PM
I didnt know Knicks were in a playoff hunt last year - thanks

But my numbers show Hardaway Jr averaged 20 PPG in games 59-79, shooting 45%

DNP last three games.

As you were......
Title: Re: Kiid
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 03:55:57 PM
I found your breakdown of Timmy compelling.

I found your dismissal of Robinson.  BIZARRE. 

Were we watching the same game? 

Character? 

Whatever Robinson said to upset MM, in the end, he responded to Morris' schoolyard taunts by walking away.  MM got tossed.  Very mature. 

But then, we have a standing watch, do we not, in which you are well documented as pooh-poohing forum enthusiasm for our bean pole, having asserted as to how Robinson was headed for G-League, right? 

Wagner was a nice collegiate.  I liked him. 

Think the Lakers might want a Mulligan? 

We shall see.

I didnt watch the game


Now THERE'S a shocker. 

Making you uniquely qualified to comment disparagingly on Mitchell Robinson's "character". 

Heh?

Character + Blackness = PUTDOWN

Character + Whiteness = WAGNER

Query?

Which one actually made a contribution to their team's preseason game? 

Heh2

Specious Comments + Absurd Assertions = Kiid Rock Conclusions
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 06:54:50 PM
Lay off the reefer, Boog.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
Lay off the reefer, Boog.

Lay off the balderdash, Broom.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 03, 2018, 07:15:25 PM
I didnt know Knicks were in a playoff hunt last year - thanks

But my numbers show Hardaway Jr averaged 20 PPG in games 59-79, shooting 45%

DNP last three games.

As you were......

LOL, not 59-79...BEFORE KP went down, and we we're looking at #8 from the other side. THJ laid turd after turd after turd.  Once nothing was even remotely meaningful anymore, he could go back to giving us something tasty once in a while.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 03, 2018, 08:42:00 PM
Breen in midseason (homer) form

"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: elephant on October 03, 2018, 10:25:00 PM
The Hardaway love is a mystery. We're all pulling from him. But he was disappointing in his first stint with the Knicks, and he was disappointing last year. The big issue is consistency — it comes up with almost everyone who watched him play game after game. But there's also the question of WHEN he makes points and his capacity for clutch basketball. I haven't seen much of that. Maybe when he was playing for Atlanta?
Title: Trier & Dotson
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 10:50:49 PM
Damn. 

A #2 pick and an undrafted 2-way contract. 

Playing with confidence and attitude. 

Some nice aggression from Ron and Frank as well.  Trey as well.  Timmy up and down.  Mudiay & Hezonja seemed spooked. 

PS: Enes with 22 & 20, but let's hear about his defense.  Coach seemed to like it.  Go figure. 
Title: Re: Trier & Dotson
Post by: chipstern on October 03, 2018, 10:53:06 PM
Damn. 

A #2 pick and an undrafted 2-way contract. 

Playing with confidence and attitude. 

Some nice aggression from Ron and Frank as well.  Trey as well.  Timmy up and down.  Mudiay and Hezonja seemed spooked. 

PS: Enes with 22 & 20, but let's hear about his defense.  Coach seemed to like it.  Go figure.

Came back with some tenacity after a desultory first quarter.  Getting after it on defense.  Okay, the Nets.  Pelicans at home on Friday, surely representing a more formidable challenge.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 04, 2018, 01:28:05 AM
Watching yanks but looking at knix stats wow. The Alonzo-Enes show. How can you start and play 18 even in preseason without scoring a single point? Fabulous job the past two years beating the bushes for talent.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 01:32:24 AM
One Knick who knows where the bodies are buried (https://apnews.com/86ec9d89d4d34579b528845f5f8c1642/Cemetery-case-puts-property-rights-issue-before-high-court).

Warning: nothing to do with this forum
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 01:48:21 AM
Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:49:06 AM
Kurcus and LeVert the most intriguing and impactful Nets. Russell is almost average which is not good enough at all. He should play behind Dinwiddie and try to be meaningful against second units.

Mario and Manny are the least together of the projected rotation guys. Baker is clearly ahead of Mudiay if no one else. Dotson should have all of Mudiay’s minutes. Trier should have either Baker or Mudiay’s spot. Baker at least makes defensive plays between missed shots and turnovers so I’m voting dump Mudiay. Allen can fill the two-way spot.

Lance and KKnox can can eat the regular season skill forward minutes till Mario gets under control.

Kanter and Robinson are a very nice tandem. When we add KP that will be one hell of a frontcourt.

Backcourt pecking order so far for those who’ve played is Frank, Trier, Dotson, Hardaway, Burke, Allen, Baker, Mudiay. Baker and Allen are actually pretty close.

I can’t wait to see Frank, Knox, and Robinson together. That’s 3/5 of our death lineup so Fizz might be saving it for the regular season. Robinson, Vonleh, Knox, Dotson (or Trier), and Frank.

Who did Frank remind you of on his first dunk?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 02:59:18 AM
I like LaVert.
Trier has a LaVert game with better jump shooting.
Trier quite a good 1-on-1 scorer,
Useful when you have a guy off the bench who can get his own shot.

I found it interesting how both Trier and Burke were trying to ram their shoulder into guys on layup attempts.  With mixed results.  Trier once knocked LaVert completely off the play.  Wonder if that's a point of emphasis by the Knix for the Guards.  Fizz said he was going to drill on finishing.  Seems like something Mud could use, as he's strong (and has trouble finishing).  Less good for small Burke.

Speaking of Mud, he kind of looks lost.  Needs to play up to his NBA years.  And is Zonja a mistake player? 

MitchRob is raw but interesting.
Blocks some shots,  Fouls a bit.
Needs to be ready for dish off passes inside.
As a 10 min a night backup C, he should be useful.

Kanter looked in midseason form.
For Nets, DMC looked disinterested in pre-season.
Dudley looks chubby.
I forgot they added Edavis.  Very solid role player.  Good pickup.

Bad all-around game for Tim.  Just pre-season, but his D was inattentive, and did nada on O.

Frank did well.  Good D, nice drive-n-dunk, a 3 ball.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 03:14:37 AM
Who did Frank remind you of on his first dunk?

Darrell Walker?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 03:18:52 AM
Breen in midseason (homer) form
"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"

After having trouble scoring in the 1Q (11 points through the first 10 mins), they did erupt.  Plus when you're with Clyde you tend to slip in creative words.

Actually what I like is that the Knick broadcasters aren't big homers like most others.  They mention Knick flaws and praise the other teams good plays/players. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Pharoah on October 04, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
    Game two has come and gone, leaving us with a lot of hype for the youngsters and a sinking feeling about some of the reclamation projects. Usually, you get rookies who visibly appear to need time to get comfortable but our guys have chips on their shoulders. These kids should get minutes, especially while Hezonja and Mudiay are making MORE mistakes with their own opportunities. The Knicks have their young core and every effort should be made to focus on it. On the skeptical side, this was an iso-heavy and one pass before a FGA offense. I like the "anyone can attack" unpredictable offense concept; but it's not unpredictable when guys are just taking turns attacking a basic pick and roll. Game one was much more fluid and Iso Zo was obnoxiously effective so withhold judgement but let's keep an eye on that.

The Standouts:
    Allonzo Trier: 20 points in the 1st half matched with NBA caliber players all along (Crabbe, Levert and Carroll with Allen in the paint). Trier isolated A LOT, but that's because no one could stop him from getting to the rim. My theme for this kid has been his ability to get to the line and it showed again (8/8 on free throws). He's not without flaws. Defensively, he shines at times but has lapses that pushed him to 5 more fouls. I also don't trust his vision or passing; though he did seem mindful of passing, it felt like his mind was made up to pass before the play unfolded and that led to some shaky passes. But this is an NBA scorer through and through with serious upside and I'm ready to see the Knicks make space for him and sign him for real to get bird rights. 25 points, 1 assist, 4 boards in 26 minutes; he also flashed the chase down block ability that Fiz kept tracking.

    Frank Ntilikina: By the time Frank punched a Spencer Dinwiddie driving lay-up attempt into the third row; he'd already dunked on Allen Crabbe, hit a running jumper off a spin into the lane and knocked down a three pointer. The youngster showed flashes of scoring at every level while taking his defense to a higher level than his already high standard. He floated in and out of ball handling duty again, which was frustrating because the Knicks looked better when Frank brought the ball up period. Every other ball handler seemed too focused on scoring, Frank would throw a simple swing pass and suddenly the defense was off balance so the second ball handler could effectively attack. 9 points, 2 boards, an assist, 2 blocks and a steal doesn't do justice to how much impact he had as he ratcheted his intensity up...big time game and he's not much older than Pablo Sanchez was in Backyard Baseball.

    Enes Kanter: I've come to accept that Kanter is who he is. He's a flawed defender that could use a rim protector at PF to cover for his slow feet and forgettable timing. But once you get past that, he's a dominant post player who really does eat up the glass and the defensive effort has at least been there. 22 points and 20 boards...that's undeniable. He gives these guys a lot of second chances and wore down an undersized front line. I like him off the bench moreso than starting, but if he's gonna drop 20/20 games then I may have to re-evaluate even as a defense snob. Oh yeah; he actually attempted a couple of three pointers and I don't know how I feel about it.

    The rest of cast:
    Mitch: The iso heavy play of the ball handlers meant we didn't get the rim running chaos (a sprain ankle after 10 minutes of play didn't help). In spite of that, his presence as a rim protector was evident out the gate. He ran down and blocked a three point attempt just like Summer League and even saved the ball from going out of bounds. 2 points, 2 boards and 2 blocks but with 4 fouls in that 10 minute span. Having him planted behind Frank up top gives the Knicks promise as a tough, defensive team for the foreseeable future.

    Knox: Another victim of everybody taking turns looking for their own, this was a subdued performance for the big lottery pick. 7 points, 4 boards, 1 assist, steal and block to 2 TO's while shooting 3/6 from the field. His three misses were all 3 pointers and his jumper from range will take time to develop consistency but he's got plenty of time and seems willing to work on it. More importantly, he flashed some really solid defense at times and having two-way potential is big for someone with such a versatile game. I'm still in awe at Knox being able to grab a board and take it coast to coast at 6'10 and even younger than Frank.

    Burke: He made the most of his touches but the share the ball mechanics of this system means that he's not able to be in 24/7 attack mode. 9 points, 3 assists, 3 boards and 2 steals in 19 minutes but for some reason the performance felt forgettable. His defensive limitations are what they are and he's producing plenty to outweigh that. I can't explain my lack of enthusiasm for him other than that he mostly vanishes as an offball guard and the system places him off ball way more than last year.

    Lance Thomas: I'll take that 0/3 performance over him forcing things every single time out. Lance had 2 boards and 1 assist in 18 minutes but brought his intangibles for the second straight game. His 1 assist came from driving the baseline with his head up and that head up part has been missing in the past. Anyway, I'm feeling positive vibes for the man as he looks like he'll get the right role for a change...15 mpg and not going over 20 where his flaws begin to really show up.

    THJ: 9 pts, 1 assist, 2 boards, 3 TOs on 3/11 from the field. I'm hoping it's cobwebs. The times when he tries to assert himself, it's not working out and he just hasn't gelled with the system yet imo. I'm trying to be patient...but he should drive more.

    Mario: You know when someone shows up to a pick-up game in a full team uniform with an arm sleeve, wristband, knee pads and every other accessory...that guy is gonna try to do too much when he gets the rock guaranteed. That's where we've found ourselves with Hezonja after two games. He's pressing and trying to show skills that he doesn't really have, was that a sky hook? Did it touch the rim? Is Mario watching the ball handler while his own man just roams to open spots on the floor? Look, I'm a big fan of this guy's potential and even as he tries too hard there are flashes of ball handling, athleticism and ability but he HAS to figure out his limitations and stay motivated on BOTH sides of the floor.

    Mudiay: If Mario's struggles can teach us anything, it's that sometimes less is more. For Mudiay that motto holds true. Less FGA's, less reckless trips to the lane with no idea how he's going to finish, less time with the ball in his hands, less minutes...all of that should be beneficial for everybody. 2 pts on 5 FGA's, 2 boards and 1 assist to 2 TO's in fifteen minutes. Trier is pushing for a roster spot and Mudiay is looking like the most cuttable player right now outside of his contract being kinda pricy to just waive.

    Vonleh: In five minutes, this dude got a LOT done. Not all good, not all bad, just a lot. 2 pts, 2 boards, a block, 2 TO's and 3 FGA's in just five minutes. Honestly hard to evaluate because it was a high motor guy that was also pressing with limited opportunity.

    Dotson: Continues to be the standout of the garbage time guys and I'd love to see him replace some of Mudiay's minutes with Frank. I really want to watch how his motor holds up with the actual rotation guys because there's been promising signs through 2 games. 4/4 from the field, 8 points, 2 boards and 1 assist with a TO over 9 minutes.

    Baker: In 8 minutes he knocked down a three, tallied 2 assists, got 2 steals and injected the game with his typical brand of physicality to make up for lack of athleticism. He plays a likeable style of ball, especially for a Knicks fan, but can he be more than a bench depth guy? Not sure about that.

    Hicks: Hicks looks better than last year, but still G-League level. It's good to see a bit of progression though.

    Allen: I'll say this...I was sleepy, the garbage unit was in and I was focused on the guys that will make the roster; but he was still active enough to notice him. Good effort.

    Closing thought: How about those Yanks? I had to watch the Knicks game late because I stuck with New York's only playoff team. But with all the rebuilds going on, we may be on the verge of a resurgence of NY sports and the Knicks seem like they're finally in a position to build long term success.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 12:30:36 PM
Pharaoh, we watched the same game though you gave a much better rundown.

I largely agree with your assessment of the current state of our players.

Based on what we’ve seen so far, this is the depth chart among our healthy players. I’ll offset the ones who should be out of the rotation till they improve. This leaves out KP & Lee.

Kanter Robinson    Kornet
Thomas Vonleh.    Hezonja
Knox                                   Mudiay
Dotson Hardaway  Baker
Ntilikina Trier        Burke

Cut or trade Mudiay &/or Lee, promote Trier. Get Allen on the other two-way and keep polishing Hicks.

Those are the moves I want to see from the brain trust.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 12:33:36 PM
If we cut Mudiay and plug in Lee as the backup SF till Mario gets his head right, we might be better off than we could get through trades.
Title: Mario & Mudiay
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 12:39:10 PM
I saw what you saw, Pha...

However. 

Mario is a knock down three point shooter, and in the past two games I do not recall him getting a single look, open or otherwise. 

Trying too hard? 

Perhaps.  He is a willing passer...pressing. 

Mudiay?  Hard to get a read.  I like his energy and his aggression, but he is also pressing. 

Timmy?  Confounding.  When he is aggressive, going to the hoop, he makes good plays, and potentially creates opportunities for his team mates.  He is also pressing, vis a vis his intercontinental Ballistic game, and I saw a tendency to swallow the ball, and again, take questionable shots, whereas Trier, a rookie, shows more acumen for creating in the midrange and off the dribble. 

Knicks defensive effort is encouraging. 

Are pushing the tempo, as per Fizdale. 

Rebounding is suspect. 

Ball movement, so fluid in Game 1, took a dive in game two. 

I suspect Friday night could get...dicey. 

Still, absorbing a good ass-kicking might be useful in terms of a re-boot, and refocusing on fundamentals. 

We shall see. 

Davis most definitely a worthy challenge for my man Enes, who didn't face Howard in Game One.  The Nyets Allen is a very nice player, with a lot of upside in the paint for Brooklyn, but Enes had his way with him.  And in terms of defense, well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and 22 & 20 still represent a big time performance in the NBA, irrespective of the match-up. 

Trier & Dotson presenting Timmy with a palpable challenge, and a template for how to get it done. 
Title: Facil
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 12:45:00 PM
No way do I see the Knicks cutting Mudiay. 

I don't believe that is Fizdale's M.O. 

Also, I mean, two preseason games?  Off with his head?  I don't think the Knicks invested all of this time just to jettison him.  Wishful thinking. 

Still, Trier and Dotson and Baker giving Fizz a lot to think about.  Timmy, too. 

Be interesting to see how Perry finesses all of this going forward. 

Lee is a solid pro, and would be a worthy addition to any number of teams. 

Pulling that off, though, could be tricky. 

Lee and Noah the elephants in the room. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:19:18 PM
Fizz, asked about Trier earning a full time roster spot said something like “roster spots are for guys that earn them. So far, Trier is earning a spot.”

I hope this means that guys who aren’t earning spots are moved or dumped  to make space for guys who do rather than tell the better players that they earned it but don’t get promoted because of short money owed to a guy that shows up less on the court.

Timmy is with Baker looking up at Trier and Dotson.

Baker had some ugly ass turnovers against the Nyets
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:22:47 PM
Mario has incredible tools. If he’d signed a multiyear deal or given a team option, I’d say play him into the flow and accept higher volume mistakes and work to reduce them over time. He’s here on a one year. It’s on him right now to clean up his game. To a lesser extent this also goes for Vonleh.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 01:25:58 PM
Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.


IGGY
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 01:30:37 PM
Watched a lot of this one

Will go back and watch game 1

And watched the postgame with Fizzy, plus the preseason panel with Fiz, Perry and Mills

I think what we have to remember when projecting minutes is that Fiz isnt going to go by just the preseason games.  He sees these guys every day in pratice - and despite what he says there was a pecking order coming in.

That said - ready for anything in terms of court time with these guys.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 01:32:21 PM
Catching a replay.
First play of the game, Breen says, Hardaway on Crabbe.
Tim makes a show of defending. Crabbe passes off.
Then simply drifts behind the ball handler, Tim gets totally lost and is about 10 feet below the ball, Crabbe with a wide open 3.
Crabbe gets another wide open shot a few plays later.
A little later Tim drifts off his man in the weakside corner, then totally loses sight of his guy.  Ball gets trapped on the strong side and Burke steals. But if Nets were able to swing it out, Tim was 20 feet from his man and trapped in behind two other players.
Way to D, Tim.


IGGY

Tim is not a bad enough basketball player that you need to get a Jimmer-Ammo hardon for him. Calm down.

———

Tim is an eighth or ninth man on a good team, a sixth or seventh man on a decent team, and a starter on a lotto team, not that he can’t further improve.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 04, 2018, 02:17:20 PM
I'm not what a Courtly-Muddy trade gets you.  But they are excess.

Alternatively, Knix could think about moving a Tim-Mud package.
A team needing 3-point shooting might want Tim.  Though the SG position has solidified leaguewide, so not sure how many teams would be interested.
For NYK, Courtly can stay on as a steady vet (along with Lance*) and we'd potentially free up money going forward.  I'm sure Knix aren't at that point yet, but might be after another half season of evaluating Tim.  Courtly can start at SG, and we'd still have Trier, Dotson & Baker as backup SG's.  You heard it here first . . .


* speaking of Lance and Iggy, Lance had what I call an Iggy boxscore.  Limited stats and a big on court +.  For Lance, 0 points and a team leading +18. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 04, 2018, 04:18:17 PM
Courtney Lee and Emmanuel Mudiay (17 mil and 13 mil next year for Lee) for Moe Harkless and Miles Leonard (22 mil this year and 23 mil next). Portland sends us a second rounder for the cap help & we wind up only able to offer 1 not 2 max deals to FAs next year. We can let Kornet walk and try to get him in the D-League if he clears waivers.

Kanter Robinson Leonard
Thomas Vonleh KP
Knox Harkless Hezonja
Dotson Hardaway Baker
Frank Trier Burke

Hicks and Allen as the 2 way guys, though we just added Barrett who can push Allen and possibly take his spot.

Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:20:57 PM
Is Zonja a mistake player? 


Yes.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:32:00 PM

    Frank Ntilikina


Should Start.

Quote
    Enes Kanter: I like him off the bench moreso than starting

Yes!

Quote

    Mitch: Having him planted behind Frank up top gives the Knicks promise as a tough, defensive team for the foreseeable future.


Start Frank and Mitch. Bring Enes off the bench.  I love it.  That's how it should be.  If Mitch gets in early foul trouble you just bring in Enes so Mitch gets the crash course in brain surgery as a starter and Enes gets to wail on second units.

Why wouldn't we do that?  Enes' ego? Mitchell's frailty?

Lets have some defense in the starting unit and not let some of these teams roll off 30-40 point first quarters on us.


Bench Mob: Enes, Tim
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 04, 2018, 05:46:52 PM
Starters should be two-way players.

Bench is for the specialists like Enes,  Lance, and Trier
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 04, 2018, 09:01:22 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24896082/kyrie-irving-says-plans-re-signing-celtics (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24896082/kyrie-irving-says-plans-re-signing-celtics)

Kyrie Irving says he intends to remain a member of the Boston Celtics beyond this season.

"I've shared it with some of my teammates as well as the organization as well as everyone else in Boston. If you guys will have me back, I plan on re-signing here next year," Irving said to rousing applause at an event for season-ticket holders at TD Garden on Thursday night.


I know some of you guys have spent a lot of time speculating/fantasizing on KI jumping ship and playing for the Knicks, but you might want to broaden your search.

 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 04, 2018, 09:27:51 PM
Yayyyyy....

Go, Kyrie!!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 04, 2018, 09:45:41 PM
Starters should be two-way players.

Bench is for the specialists like Enes,  Lance, and Trier

Calling Enes a specialist is just plain silly, but agree with ya 100 percent on Frank.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: lesterdog on October 04, 2018, 09:48:40 PM
Meanwhile, Carmelo looks like a perfect fit for the Houston Rockets offense, perhaps my least favorite in the league, yes, but he's perfect in it.
Title: Kyrie
Post by: chipstern on October 04, 2018, 10:07:54 PM
So much for all of that specious speculative conjecture about Butler and Kyrie on the Knicks...

And we still have our 2019 #1 pick. 

Imagine that. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bankshot1 on October 04, 2018, 10:29:09 PM
Yayyyyy....

Go, Kyrie!!

Kid, sorry to burst your balloon.

But it look like you might get your wish with Kavanaugh on the Court.

Your keg is half full-

Seems Brett was a little thirsty after all that anger came out.
Title: Re: Mario & Mudiay
Post by: Pharoah on October 04, 2018, 10:33:04 PM
I saw what you saw, Pha...

However. 

Mario is a knock down three point shooter, and in the past two games I do not recall him getting a single look, open or otherwise. 

Trying too hard? 

Perhaps.  He is a willing passer...pressing. 

Mudiay?  Hard to get a read.  I like his energy and his aggression, but he is also pressing. 

Timmy?  Confounding.  When he is aggressive, going to the hoop, he makes good plays, and potentially creates opportunities for his team mates.  He is also pressing, vis a vis his intercontinental Ballistic game, and I saw a tendency to swallow the ball, and again, take questionable shots, whereas Trier, a rookie, shows more acumen for creating in the midrange and off the dribble. 

Knicks defensive effort is encouraging. 

Are pushing the tempo, as per Fizdale. 

Rebounding is suspect. 

Ball movement, so fluid in Game 1, took a dive in game two. 

I suspect Friday night could get...dicey. 

Still, absorbing a good ass-kicking might be useful in terms of a re-boot, and refocusing on fundamentals. 

We shall see. 

Davis most definitely a worthy challenge for my man Enes, who didn't face Howard in Game One.  The Nyets Allen is a very nice player, with a lot of upside in the paint for Brooklyn, but Enes had his way with him.  And in terms of defense, well, sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and 22 & 20 still represent a big time performance in the NBA, irrespective of the match-up. 

Trier & Dotson presenting Timmy with a palpable challenge, and a template for how to get it done.

Hey Chip how was your summer?

I definitely think the trio you mention pressing could do with just smarter decision making. Hardaway and Hezonja especially have the skillsets to be positive impact players out the gate, especially THJ. I do wonder if trying to play with pace and follow that one second decision rule is part of their early struggles, but that oughtta become more clear with time and reps. As much as they're vets, they're pretty damned young. So pressing is definitely a fair description!

I'm definitely interested to see how they deal with a squad like NO. I'm hoping Fiz expands these guys' options with more practice time and as the preseason keeps going, but having a quality team force these players to smarten up would only be beneficial imo. One good thing about not sweating the record and focusing on development, the losses can actually be positive.

Dotson needs more opportunities...I really want to see him rock with a better group of players surrounding him because he's been head and shoulders above the garbage unit and also better than Mudiay and arguably Timmy too.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 01:13:29 AM
Dotson over Timmy is an easy argument to make at this point.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 02:21:50 AM
I love Fizz managing expectations on Kanter’s D. A motivator and a realist at once is our coach.

“I don’t expect him to out quick anyone, but he’s a positional defender and he’s smart.”

All true and all good things for the international man of mystery to focus on while knowing the coach thinks he’s smart. Everyone likes to feel smart. Nice 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 02:37:15 AM
Courtney Lee and Emmanuel Mudiay (17 mil and 13 mil next year for Lee) for Moe Harkless and Miles Leonard (22 mil this year and 23 mil next). Portland sends us a second rounder for the cap help & we wind up only able to offer 1 not 2 max deals to FAs next year.

Harkless would be a nice addition to NYK, but would probably mean Zonja gets buried.  My Leonard leads the league in needing a change of scenery, but not sure how useful he is, and would be redundant once KZ returns.  Kornet a much cheaper version.

And POR doesn't need another combo wing.  The have McCollum and EvTurner and Seth Curry.  After losing ed davis, they are thin upfront and can't part with Hark.  They could certainly use the cap savings.  And Leopard definitely expendable.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 02:43:56 AM
Maybe something 3-way, where:

Knix get Hark ($10M this and next) & Wes Mathews ($18M) ending.

DAL gets Tim Jr. ($17M) and My Leonard (10.5M)

POR gets Dwight Powell ($9M, player opt for $10.5M), Mud ($4.5M) and either Zonja or Lance (~$7M). 

Zonja better since he can shoot 3's and is an ending deal.  But probably can't be traded until Dec 15 or whatever in a package.

Basically,
KNIX flip Tim for Hark, shoring up the SF/PF slots.  While adding $7M in cap space for next year.  Wes is a temp fill-in for Tim this year, while Trier and Dotson get their sea legs.  And Courtly steadies the ship.  Knix improve roster balance and add cap space.
Hark probably slides in as starting PF while KZ is out, moving Lance back to his better bench role.

DAL flips Wes' ending for Tim's scoring.  Basically an old-for-young wing swap for the Mavs.  Tim slots in with Smith Jr and Doncic with DeAndre down below.  In the process, they lose athletic Dwight Powel, but Mavs hope Dirk can light a fire under Myers ass, and teach him some tricks.

POR = basically a Hark for Powell swap, which allows them to ditch Leonard for endings.  What's not to like?
POR gets a lot of ending deals (tho Powell can opt in for same money as Hark/Leonard had).  A bouncy Powell, see if Zonja can shoot or Mud can play.  They can use the 3-point shooting Zonja supposedly brings.  But in any case they improve their salary cap for next year. 
Save $10M at least and $20M if Powell opts out (they can decide to keep him or not).

I really like this deal for NYK and POR.
Depends a lot on what DAL thinks of Tim (and his contract) and Powell.
DAL really can use more 3-point shooting.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
Maybe something 3-way, where:

Knix get Hark ($10M this and next) & Wes Mathews ($18M) ending.

DAL gets Tim Jr. ($17M) and My Leonard (10.5M)

POR gets Dwight Powell ($9M, player opt for $10.5M), Mud ($4.5M) and either Zonja or Lance (~$7M). 

Zonja better since he can shoot 3's and is an ending deal.  But probably can't be traded until Dec 15 or whatever in a package.

Basically,
KNIX flip Tim for Hark, shoring up the SF/PF slots.  While adding $7M in cap space for next year.  Wes is a temp fill-in for Tim this year, while Trier and Dotson get their sea legs.  And Courtly steadies the ship.  Knix improve roster balance and add cap space.
Hark probably slides in as starting PF while KZ is out, moving Lance back to his better bench role.

DAL flips Wes' ending for Tim's scoring.  Basically an old-for-young wing swap for the Mavs.  Tim slots in with Smith Jr and Doncic with DeAndre down below.  In the process, they lose athletic Dwight Powel, but Mavs hope Dirk can light a fire under Myers ass, and teach him some tricks.

POR = basically a Hark for Powell swap, which allows them to ditch Leonard for endings.  What's not to like?
POR gets a lot of ending deals (tho Powell can opt in for same money as Hark/Leonard had).  A bouncy Powell, see if Zonja can shoot or Mud can play.  They can use the 3-point shooting Zonja supposedly brings.  But in any case they improve their salary cap for next year. 
Save $10M at least and $20M if Powell opts out (they can decide to keep him or not).

I really like this deal for NYK and POR.
Depends a lot on what DAL thinks of Tim (and his contract) and Powell.
DAL really can use more 3-point shooting.

Thoughts?

Pass
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:21:29 AM




Yayyyyy....

Go, Kyrie!!

Kid, sorry to burst your balloon.

But it look like you might get your wish with Kavanaugh on the Court.

Your keg is half full-

Seems Brett was a little thirsty after all that anger came out.

Trump's wish.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:28:48 AM
Can Mario Hezonja even be traded?

I wouldn't be looking for any player movement unless it is simply dealing a guy to open a roster spot (ex;  Trier making roster), for a pick and someone we could waive.

Not sure we are at that point with Mudiay but who knows?

I like our front court.  Lets remember Kornet.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:29:56 AM
So it took young buck Mitch 2 games to get hurt?  Yes.  Rely on him.  Surely.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Kam on October 05, 2018, 09:46:31 AM
Maybe something 3-way, where:

Knix get Hark ($10M this and next) & Wes Mathews ($18M) ending.

DAL gets Tim Jr. ($17M) and My Leonard (10.5M)

POR gets Dwight Powell ($9M, player opt for $10.5M), Mud ($4.5M) and either Zonja or Lance (~$7M). 

Zonja better since he can shoot 3's and is an ending deal.  But probably can't be traded until Dec 15 or whatever in a package.

Basically,
KNIX flip Tim for Hark, shoring up the SF/PF slots.  While adding $7M in cap space for next year.  Wes is a temp fill-in for Tim this year, while Trier and Dotson get their sea legs.  And Courtly steadies the ship.  Knix improve roster balance and add cap space.
Hark probably slides in as starting PF while KZ is out, moving Lance back to his better bench role.

DAL flips Wes' ending for Tim's scoring.  Basically an old-for-young wing swap for the Mavs.  Tim slots in with Smith Jr and Doncic with DeAndre down below.  In the process, they lose athletic Dwight Powel, but Mavs hope Dirk can light a fire under Myers ass, and teach him some tricks.

POR = basically a Hark for Powell swap, which allows them to ditch Leonard for endings.  What's not to like?
POR gets a lot of ending deals (tho Powell can opt in for same money as Hark/Leonard had).  A bouncy Powell, see if Zonja can shoot or Mud can play.  They can use the 3-point shooting Zonja supposedly brings.  But in any case they improve their salary cap for next year. 
Save $10M at least and $20M if Powell opts out (they can decide to keep him or not).

I really like this deal for NYK and POR.
Depends a lot on what DAL thinks of Tim (and his contract) and Powell.
DAL really can use more 3-point shooting.

Thoughts?

Pass

Shoot.
Title: Re: Kyrie
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
So much for all of that specious

speculative conjecture about Butler and Kyrie on the Knicks...

And we still have our 2019 #1 pick. 

Imagine that.

Yeah ...  Brain trust stated on the preseason show that picks won't be dealt.

So... Look at #10-16 Or so on the nbadraft.net board. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:08:51 AM
Will Knicks

a)  want to pull off a "keep KP on ice, get higher pick" maneuver?

b)  be able to convince Porzingis to go along?

I have contended all along it will be a "lets go, I am ready" situation, KP calling the shots.  But maybe this is a more crafty management group...
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 12:12:39 PM
I don't think Zonja can be packaged until Dec 15.
And he doesn't make enough to structure it as two deals; (a Hark-Zonja straight up and then the other stuff as a 2nd deal).

Knix have 5 SG's and two combo G's, so I definitely expect PerryMills to be looking to make a move.  Courtly (and Noah) on the trading block.  But Tim could get us more in return.  Knix also lacking a starting quality PG, but my trade doesn't address that.

My deal balances the roster by giving us a legit starting F in Hark.  And adding more defense.  I like Lance but he's best as a 15 min a night bench vet.  Hark and Knox could be a solid F pairing.  Then later KZ starting and either Hark or Knox to the bench.
Title: Sweet Merciful
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 04:33:47 PM
Two lousy exhibition games, and Knicks fans already have Mario Hezonja booked on a garbage trawler out of Bayonne. 

(Oh, and Kiid Rock has concluded that Mitchell Robinson's vitality is suspect based on turning his ankle by stepping on another player's foot, one of the most common injuries in all of hoops)

And, sweet merciful J____, will someone kindly explain the eternal appeal of Maurice Harkless to a generation of Trader Vics?  And whatsoever would justify queering the chemistry of this team before it has even started, and with Kevin Knox already earning his stripes at small forward. 

Having hopefully dispensed with the feeding frenzy Knicks fans held in regard to queering all of our plans to pursue fucking Melo 2.0 in Jimmy Butler ("...but see, he GUARANTEES you get Kyrie Irving in the summer of 2019, and without Jimmy, we don't stand a chance...it's a fact...I read it in the newspaper"), once again, here comes the savior from Galilee, Moe Harkless, starting small forward of our dreams.   

Yes, by all means, let's bail out Portland from a bad signing. 

By all means let's bring on board  a cat who in six seasons, SIX SEASONS, has yet to make a case for himself, and who in three seasons with Portland, THREE SEASONS, is averaging 6.8 ppg, with a FT% of .577 and a .309 3-point %.

(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/russian_roulette_all_in_the_family.gif)
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 06:50:15 PM
I don't think Hark has been used that well in POR.
If he was doing great, he wouldn't be available (same with Tim).
He has shown improvement and can develop further.
Last two years shot 50% FG.  Last year 41% on 3's (just 2 attempts).  Year before 35% on 3's.  Last year's FT% up to 71%.  So he's not going to hurt you on offense (and can do more)
Solid defender.  Decent rebounder.

I hadn't thought of Hark as overpaid. $10M with one more year remaining.  League average is $8M now.
EvTurner and Myers are their problem contracts.

Really Hark would be a fill-in and then a backup F to KZ and Knox.  And if Knox struggles or hits the rook wall, Hark could start at SF.
So a backup F for $10M who can fill in and start at SF/PF as needed.
Plays D, and developing a 3&D profile.
Not a savior, but a solid role player.

Also, we'd save $7M on next season's cap.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 05, 2018, 07:00:45 PM
As for queering the chemistry.
I think moving mistake players such as Mud and Zonja helps.  Not to mention thinning out the G glut, both clarifying the PG situation -- just Burke and Franc -- while making a commitment to Courtly, who has been left dangling. 

I largely forgot about Vonleh.  Maybe the Knix hope he can be a Hark type and be a solid F role player.  I have doubts and don't see him able to legit start at either F spot.  But we'll see.

Another bonus: 3 players going out and 2 back means we open a roster spot for Trier, showing players that effort is rewarded.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
 Once again......Evan Turner much better than he  gets credit for.  Even the "overpaid" can be excellent contributors - and frankly sometimes you NEED to overpay.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 05, 2018, 09:59:48 PM
Damn. Talent is a good thing to have, and we have some. Go Knicks!
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 05, 2018, 10:03:27 PM
As for queering the chemistry.
I think moving mistake players such as Mud and Zonja helps.  Not to mention thinning out the G glut, both clarifying the PG situation -- just Burke and Franc -- while making a commitment to Courtly, who has been left dangling. 

I largely forgot about Vonleh.  Maybe the Knix hope he can be a Hark type and be a solid F role player.  I have doubts and don't see him able to legit start at either F spot.  But we'll see.

Another bonus: 3 players going out and 2 back means we open a roster spot for Trier, showing players that effort is rewarded.

Yeah, I mentioned how we would do that -

Deal a usable player for a bum and a pick.  Waive the bum.  Add Trier.

Though Fiz said the other night re:  Alonzo when asked if he'd be "G-league bound" -

"I dont know - but either way he is OURS.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 05, 2018, 10:35:45 PM
Looks like another fine game for the core and rotation, looking at the stat sheet. I only caught the final quarter, not so much from that end of the bench.
Title: True Dat
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 11:45:43 PM
Damn. Talent is a good thing to have, and we have some. Go Knicks!

True Dat. 

Finally. 

PS: FUCK Moe Harkless. 

PPS: FUCK Moe Harkless TWICE.

PPPS: Timmy.

PPPPS: Looking forward to Pharoah's breakdown.  Yes, only a pre-season game, but winning is a good habit TO CULTIVATE.  And we are playing with good pace and getting after it defensively, albeit only baby steps.  BUT SOMETHING TO ROOT FOR. 
Title: Re: True Dat
Post by: chipstern on October 05, 2018, 11:46:37 PM
Damn. Talent is a good thing to have, and we have some. Go Knicks!

True Dat. 

Finally. 

PS: FUCK Moe Harkless. 

PPS: FUCK Moe Harkless TWICE.

PPPS: Timmy.

PPPPS: Looking forward to Pharoah's breakdown.  Yes, only a pre-season game, but winning is a good habit TO CULTIVATE.  And we are playing with good pace and getting after it defensively, albeit only baby steps.  BUT SOMETHING TO ROOT FOR.

Fuck Jimmy Butler.
Title: Re: Kyrie
Post by: Kam on October 06, 2018, 12:39:33 AM
So much for all of that specious

speculative conjecture about Butler and Kyrie on the Knicks...

And we still have our 2019 #1 pick. 

Imagine that.

Yeah ...  Brain trust stated on the preseason show that picks won't be dealt.

So... Look at #10-16 Or so on the nbadraft.net board.

This next lottery is the first one with improved odds for every team in the lottery so as long as we are in it we stand a meaningful chance at a Top 4 pick

Finishing 10th would yield about 1 in 8 odds of landing one of the first four picks

I'm comfortable with that... seeing 35 wins possible as a rosy prediction.

That would be ideal... begin to set a winning culture while still maintaining a hope for lottery luck.


Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on October 06, 2018, 04:21:50 AM
Sometimes its not about the numbers. THJ does not seem like a natural fit on this team. And I say this after a decent game from him.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2018, 06:13:43 AM
We're not going anywhere.
So Lance and Vonleh can be the fill-in F's.
And then in backup roles once KZ returns.

A full year to evaluate Tim, Zonja, Mud.
Though since the latter 2 are endings, they can go in a package midseason perhaps. 

We have 6 SG's and 2 combo G's.
So a glut.  But maybe who cares.

What do the Knicks do if Kanter gets injured?  or abducted by Erdogan's goons?
He seems like an iron man and his ground bound game reduces possibilities of high flying injury.  But stuff happens.
 
Mitch ain't ready to start.
Neither is Kornet.
I don't expect to see KZ until FEB.
If Noah was still on board, he'd be a possibility.
But seems like that ship is disembarking, and we probably want that roster spot as well.

Maybe it would just help us tank.
But Micth/Kornet/Lance as our contingency starting C?
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 12:57:31 PM
Mitch, Kornet, and Vonleh. Lance is mostly PF with a little SF potential.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 01:06:42 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO)

Blazers, Bulls, and Raptors all have big enough exceptions to absorb Courtney Lee.

The Clips, Pistons, and Cavs all have between five and seven mil available.

This might be the best route to off load our extra guard.

The question is which one...


Title: Trader Vic
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2018, 01:08:36 PM
I appreciate your passion for "deals" BoD. 

Having said that, how would "dealing" Hezonja and/or Hardaway help our team?

More to the point, how would "dumping" Mario or Timmy enhance our standing among free agents?  There are more implications to deals than just talent. 

Who, among second or third tier free agents are going to be enthused about coming here, perhaps accepting one year deals or less money, because they are excited about the possibility of proving themselves and creating a home in NYC at the Garden. 

To then simply turn around and go, "Oooops, my bad," is not going to build trust or a family climate. 

Yes, yes, hard knocks and hard truths.  Got it. 

"Maybe it will help us tank?"

Well, now, that doesn't seem to be the goal, does it?

We could very well be a lottery team come next spring. 

Management and the coaching staff have not committed to tanking, they have committed to building a better, sustainable culture. 

Fizdale genuinely impresses me, because he seems to be able to reach & teach young players.  Again, baby steps, naught but baby steps, and in pre-season no less, but we've already seen his young charges getting after it defensively, and demonstrating better pacing and energy. 

What he did with Mudiay, responding to poor games by starting him, really struck me as foundational and supportive in a very...human response.  Mudiay's shooting continues to astonish in its ineptitude, but Emmanuel really set a very good tone in transition, made some excellent penetrations and reads in the open court and in the paint, and had a good defensive focus.  Perhaps the confidence Mudiay displayed will translate to his own offense.  Perhaps not.  Fizz got good minutes out of him. 

And we also saw progress from Hezonja and Hardaway and Vonleh in tangible ways.  Again, baby steps, but Mario seemed more under control, though I am still baffled at how few looks he gets (Alonzo Trier, please pick up the Hospitality Phone); Timmy still had too many heat check threes, but I liked his aggression, and how it mirrored Trier in using his athleticism, going to the rack, and getting to the charity stripe; and the sheer physicality and competitive ooomph of Vonleh was a welcome development...a double double in a handful of minutes, some nice aggression and hops around the rack, and a three pointer. 

I am confident that Perry is working the phones looking to find takers for our roster overflow. 

In the meantime, if Trier has to go to Westchester, along with Hicks, that is not the end of the world.  Meanwhile, Baker evincing his inner Mike Riordan, Dotson playing well in limited minutes.   

I sense that Perry is going to be a lot more patient with the likes of Hezonja, Mudiay, Hardaway than some of us on this forum might be. 

Which is all to the good. 

I am liking our chemistry, even as I wait for the other shoe to drop, and for this team to absorb some good old fashioned ass whuppings.  I will be interested to see how they respond post-loss, and how they respond when Fizz shortens up rotations and begins to settle in lineups and match ups. 

The time for deal-deals-deals is more distant than you would seem to project, and in terms of chemistry, some of what you propose, calculated and well-thought out as you always are, amounts to little more than a reshuffling not a reboot.  Harkless instead of Hezonja?  Giving up on Hardaway in the name of cap space; adding a Wes Matthews when we already have Dotson and Trier (AND COURTNEY LEE)? 

Oh, and yet another proposal for dumping Lance Thomas, who clearly is a significant contributor and a defensive force, and one of Fizz's faves?   A trendsetter in terms of our team culture, our defensive culture.  So we can replace him with Moe Harkless? 

Persuasive?  Perhaps.

Compelling? 

PASS. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: chipstern on October 06, 2018, 01:11:19 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/notable-trade-exceptions-available-this-offseason/ar-AAyHFFO)

Blazers, Bulls, and Raptors all have big enough exceptions to absorb Courtney Lee.

The Clips, Pistons, and Cavs all have between five and seven mil available.

This might be the best route to off load our extra guard.

The question is which one...

All kind of crowded in the back court, alas. 

Be very interesting to see how Scott Perry finesses our roster over the next few weeks, if at all. 
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 06, 2018, 03:58:15 PM
Courtney Lee for Jerryd Bayless.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: thebizneverloses on October 06, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
Breen in midseason (homer) form
"Knicks ERUPT for 33 points in the second quarter"

After having trouble scoring in the 1Q (11 points through the first 10 mins), they did erupt.  Plus when you're with Clyde you tend to slip in creative words.

Actually what I like is that the Knick broadcasters aren't big homers like most others.  They mention Knick flaws and praise the other teams good plays/players.

I watch a lot of League Pass. Breen & Clyde are hands down the best in the business.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: luee on October 06, 2018, 07:14:07 PM
I am amazed that clyde has not made the national jump, he is entertainingly good. Perry has given the franchise a recognition of talent it has not had in the recent past.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2018, 07:29:58 PM
Sometimes its not about the numbers. THJ does not seem like a natural fit on this team. And I say this after a decent game from him.

Get rid of him at your peril

Guy scores points
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: kiidcarter8 on October 06, 2018, 07:31:14 PM
I am amazed that clyde has not made the national jump, he is entertainingly good. Perry has given the franchise a recognition of talent it has not had in the recent past.

Clyde working with the guards this year, at Fiz's behest.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: facilitatorn on October 06, 2018, 08:48:47 PM
Finally.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: bodiddley on October 06, 2018, 08:59:35 PM
Yeah, I've also been calling for that forever.
Clyde knows the game, knows how to teach it succinctly, and commands respect.

Clyde is too idiosyncratic for national TV.
Not just the vocab, but the way he offers silence when his broadcast partner says something Clyde isn't interested in following up.
Title: Re: Knicks
Post by: Zupzup on October 07, 2018, 07:07:55 AM
JRS and Smart, especialy Smart. Not so.
Title: The Old Ending Contract Play
Post by: chipstern on October 07, 2018, 01:45:50 PM
Courtney Lee for Jerryd Bayless.

Other than an ending salary, how does this help with either our roster or back-court glut issues?  Or chemistry?

And, REALISTICALLY, why would Philly invest in Lee when they have Reddick? 

Oh, and that Fultz fellow.  And #1 pick Zhaire Smith

Also, as per projecting free agency moves in 2019?

Kevin Durant

Kawhi Leonard

Mychal Thompson

Jimmy Butler

On the Knicks?

If we had a prayer of a shot at Kawhi, well, but Durant?  Why would he leave GS?  Jimmy Butler?  Fuck Jimmy Butler.  And again, as regards the received wisdom which holds that Kawhi's move to Los Angeles is Biblically predestined?  Well, I can recall Forum members, who shall remain