Escape from Elba

Arts => Movies => Topic started by: Admin on April 16, 2007, 08:43:18 PM



Title: Movies
Post by: Admin on April 16, 2007, 08:43:18 PM
Discuss your favorite movies.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 22, 2007, 12:39:46 PM
Burns Carpenter, Man Of Science


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 22, 2007, 06:27:20 PM
Well, OC & Stiggs comes highly recommended.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 22, 2007, 11:14:28 PM
What's the dizzle my hizzle? 

I posted at length last night (typical jbottle Sat. night rant), and System Operators had chosen to change format and silence the bottle once again (joke).

No, I saw "Fracture" with the sigboth and concur with bart that you should wait for the DVD, and in the words of a funny friend, wait a little longer.

It wasn't nearly the test of talents that Tobes had promised at The Onion ("B") and was at best a "C-" in my estimation.  I noted that Gen-Y(?) Ryan Gosling, six years junior to Edward Norton, had made a similar (meaning good) impression that his Gen-X predecessor had made (meaning great, though) with the same director in a court procedural 11 years earlier in 1996 offering "Primal Fear."  Good, but not great, Gosling has made a case for being the smart guy A-lister waiting on a great part the way Norton still is having made his way quite well...

...I also noted that Cusack is in need of a career check with "Martian Boy," or my sigboth missed-joke "WTF?  K-Pax:  The Early Years???" and winner joke "Nothing a little Ritalin can't clean up..." that registered with her and a few seats over (I'm terrible at the trailer trashing with a couple of beers in the belly...)

Anyway, I plan very soon to get hammered and make controversial statements here very soon, including box-office predictions and movie pitches, and last night included a link to my unremitting grief trailer from IMDB (including the name of the craft "Icarus II") of the new Danny Boyle movie "Sunshine" which in my most paranoid moments was ripped from the jokes in the NYTFF, because it is literally the same pitch, with adjustments, with Michelle Yeoh and the guy from Breakfast on Pluto which might make it a Summer Try like "The Core," and naturally I had a little sadness accompany my failure to submit a "Rule of 2's" effort script in a timely manner due to beer abuse and general lack of ambition and cultural apathy.

Nevertheless, I remain your steadfast huckleberry friend,  jbottle...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 22, 2007, 11:16:54 PM
That should've been 11 yrs. junior to Norton or "Primal Fear," identical to the difference in their ages, I must've said "six" thinking of "1996," the year of PF's release.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 23, 2007, 09:25:31 AM
I must've said "six" thinking of....

The number 2 times the number 3, hmmmmmmm?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on April 23, 2007, 09:28:36 AM
Anybody see Screen Door Jesus?  Is it worth watching?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 23, 2007, 09:52:15 AM
...I also noted that Cusack is in need of a career check with "Martian Boy," or my sigboth missed-joke "WTF?  K-Pax:  The Early Years???" and winner joke "Nothing a little Ritalin can't clean up..." that registered with her and a few seats over (I'm terrible at the trailer trashing with a couple of beers in the belly...)

Okay, and this is the part where I ask why John Cusack is making a couple of films with Hilary Duff -- is there something going on on the side? I kinda hope not, though whatever floats your boat ... --  and comment that I like about every other John Cusack movie.  And with every every other JC movie, I say "John, what were you thinking?"  As in "High Fidelity" (yay) and "America's Sweethearts" (nay).   And how the in-production future JC film "Talking with Dog" seems to rip off both "Children of Men" and me and the hubby, because when the mutt's in the car, it's obligatory for one of us to say "Dog is my co-pilot." 

I haven't seen "Screen Door Jesus," I am sorry to say. But it looks like something that might play of IFC or Sundance, so I probably will catch at least part of it.  I kind of like the quirky stuff, and it looks like SDJ might fit that bill. I will definitely keep an eye out for it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 23, 2007, 01:47:18 PM
I wan't kidding, just incase:  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0415965/

Can you believe this?  With Cillian Murphy and Michelle Yeoh:  crud.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0448134/trailers-screenplay-E31240-10-2


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 23, 2007, 01:59:31 PM
I'm sorry, jbottle.  I thought you already knew you'd been intellectually raped, or at least ravaged. Not that that makes it pleasant or anything.  I can't speak to Michelle Yeoh, but I really like Cillian Murphy, so maybe it won't be a total bust.  Though, I guess for your sake we should all hope it is. Any way you can rush into production and make them the #2 in this Rule of 2s scenario?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 23, 2007, 05:10:30 PM
No, I knew, but the point is that I would've been at the ready when somebody said:  "Where's my 'going into the sun movie!!!'....I NEED IT YES-TUR-DAYYYYY!!!" except I don't think that when it's Danny Boyle they think let's piggyback Michael Bay's marketing, because even Michael Bay isn't Michael Bay anymore, and, well, anyway I didn't write very much of it and "played myself."  Seeing the trailer just makes me very melancholy...but it sure doesn't look very funny.  Mine was supposed to be funny.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 23, 2007, 10:31:29 PM
What would you say when all of the witnesses were against you?

"I'm innocent."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 24, 2007, 09:33:26 AM
...I really like Cillian Murphy...

Yeah, he's okay, but he's no Dave Duchovny.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 24, 2007, 04:50:28 PM
...I really like Cillian Murphy...

Yeah, he's okay, but he's no Dave Duchovny.



Well, who is, really? 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Kam on April 24, 2007, 05:55:10 PM
Discuss your favorite movies.

some of favorite sports-themed movies:

Bad News Bears (original)
The Longest Yard (original)
The Karate Kid
Field of Dreams


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 24, 2007, 06:46:13 PM
Slap Shot
second vote for the Sandler-free version of The Longest Yard
Bang the Drum Slowly
Major League

Just my .02


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 24, 2007, 09:40:34 PM
The Fish that Saved Pittsburgh

Ordinary People


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: law120b on April 24, 2007, 11:58:58 PM
jest droppin in to say hi.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 25, 2007, 10:15:36 AM
The Fish that Saved Pittsburgh

Ordinary People

Favorite Spring Break movie:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0300214/ (http://imdb.com/title/tt0300214/)





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on April 25, 2007, 10:24:04 AM
Slap Shot
second vote for the Sandler-free version of The Longest Yard
Bang the Drum Slowly
Major League

Just my .02
Definitely Major League!  Any time the Indians beat the Yankees gets my approval, even if it is a pretty mediocre and barely funny comedy.

Slap Shot may be my favorite sports comedy; can't think of anything better off the top of my head.  As for dramas, Raging Bull.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 25, 2007, 11:35:59 AM
Hey, nice quote (or tagline or whatever)!!   I'll bet "No Country For Old Men" has an opening barren-landscape voice-over like "Blood Simple" did. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 25, 2007, 05:48:08 PM
Just to pull this discussion together, wasn't the great M. Emmett Walsh Timothy Hutton's swimming coach in "Ordinary People," see I told you there was a sports movie in there even though for some reason his heart wasn't in swimming...

Movies about sports are usually terrible, but occasionally you find a real gem like the Rob Lowe rowing drama "Oxford Blues," and the note-perfect "Side Out," a sort of "'Cocktail' meets, uh, volleyball..."  It's one of C. Thomas Howell's most nuanced role as a brash upstart who gets his comeuppance and life-lessons from perpetual thirty-something Peter Horton.

I'm not sure if "Urban Cowboy" (beaten to market by the inferior "The Electric Horseman") really qualifies as a "fringe sports movie," like "Gleaming the Cube," you never really know if you are quote-unquote "gleaming the cube" unless you've been that snail out on on that razorblade, tip-toeing across the tightrope.....like Clint Eastwood.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 25, 2007, 07:25:47 PM
I take it you're not a badmitton man.

In "Fancy," a young redneck ingenue orphan raised by strict Southern Baptists is admitted to an elite Mississippi prep school through a program that allows social science to collide with the possibility of social mobility.

The rich girls teach her to smoke, and she learns how to how have fun and speak right for the first time ever.  She learns to go all the way on the first date and how to do bong hits and parasail.

Fox Searchlight:  Spring '08.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 26, 2007, 01:31:33 PM
I take it you're not a badmitton man.

SPELLING PARK RANGER says...

It's "badminton".



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 26, 2007, 01:33:20 PM

In "Fancy," a young redneck ingenue orphan raised by strict Southern Baptists is admitted to an elite Mississippi prep school... Fox Searchlight:  Spring '08.

This guy would be great as the coach of the parasailing team...

http://imdb.com/name/nm0788335/ (http://imdb.com/name/nm0788335/)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 26, 2007, 02:35:57 PM
Just some random thoughts.

Blood Simple - Great flick.  Don't watch it while you're eating eggplant parm, or you might have to change the channel.  We did. 

Major League -- Yeah, it's not so funny, is it?  But I know a bunch of real people who act a lot like ML's stereotyped characters -- except the voodoo guy -- so it doesn't ring all that false with me.  Still, while it's something comfortable to veg out to, I think ML has to come off the list.

Eight Men Out -- True, an excellent film.  But sooo depressing.  Almost as depressing as DB Sweeney's career. (Quick - who was he in Eight Men Out?)

And speaking of Mr. Sweeney, I spaced and forgot the ultimate sports movie -- The Cutting Edge.  It blends hockey with figure skating, what more could you ask?  You want more?  Okay, it's directed by Starsky.  It just don't get better than this....Seriously, though I think it will have to take the place of Major League on my list.  (A well-balanced diet always includes a little cheese.)

And Urban Cowboy -- this is one of my most-hated movies. Except for Debra Winger, and even she can only do so much, it's horrible.  The writing is atrocious.  The plot line is high-school.  The acting -- most of the acting -- is horrendous.  Yet the little guide thing that flips up on my screen gives it three stars.  Why, oh why on earth?  Ms. Winger notwithstanding, of course.  Urban Cowboy has a permanently high ranking on my Worst Ever list, even with competition like the old  standbys: Plan 9 from Outer Space, Session 9, and Hard Hunted (or just about any Joe Bob Briggs movie).

I'm done. Thank you very much.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 26, 2007, 04:04:57 PM
Almost as depressing as DB Sweeney's career. (Quick - who was he in Eight Men Out?)

Shoeless Joe - I didn't even have to check IMDB.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 26, 2007, 04:12:19 PM
And speaking of Mr. Sweeney, I spaced and forgot the ultimate sports movie -- The Cutting Edge.

Co-starring Moira Kelly, who was very cute there for a while.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Kam on April 26, 2007, 04:36:33 PM
Bad movies

I saw The Holiday recently.  GUYS - Don't get roped into this one by your women in your life.

The trouble with identifying bad films is that there are so many.




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 26, 2007, 06:30:06 PM
Harrie:  I think you're wrong about "Urban Cowboy," as much as I heart you, because like "Saturday Night Fever" you almost feel like an alien sociologist watching the movie, I mean, both stories sort of (and "Saturday Night Fever" is much more knowing from a directoral standpoint) capture the sadness of the location and the time in place and the folly, I don't know, I would say give it another chance.  But I believe that SNF is really an outstanding film, punching through the heart of disco with a wry melodrama that is half-sincere, and ultimately half-heartbreaking. 

Speaking of "disco," I've been watching "The Last Days of Disco" on cable a few times lately and just think the best of Whit Stillman and Chris Eigeman playing it straight so smart and just right with the lines make him only a guy that Stillman can direct right, and he doesn't do it often enough.  If life were like a Stillman film, I guess everybody would be super-wry all the time, but I really don't know what it's like to be around a lot of people who try to do that a lot.  Stillman's view of snobs is charitable in that we get to see everything played out making sense, and it's not just a game of chaotic bullying and half-wits, which is more what I imagine to be the truth of the matter.

I hope that Obama's message reaches directly out to black people tonight, if not, Hilary will, and that's a problem.  They've already thought this through, and if my instincts are correct Hilary will be waiting for Obama to say anything too much about race or class, and be loaded for bull about her Senate advocacy, etc.  I expect someone to show teeth, I mean, a few, please.

Dark Horse Edwards might strike the right message if he focuses on the working poor and middle class, he's been doing it for years, and it just might resonate above the manipulated bitchery.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 26, 2007, 06:34:36 PM
...and before anybody says "easy for a white guy from SC to say" about Obama and Hilary being "bitches," okay I'll own a little bit of that but there is something about Obama that is female, not too threatening, hiding smoking cigarettes from his wife that just doesn't fit.  I like for people that smoke to smoke.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 26, 2007, 06:36:42 PM
...when I say "female, not too threatening," I didn't mean to suggest that the idea of a woman President is threatening to me personally as a man, but let her carry our her "penis envy" in whatever fantastic way she can.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on April 26, 2007, 06:40:12 PM
That debate is tonight?

No television?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on April 26, 2007, 08:11:26 PM
jbottle, I get what you're saying, and heart you right back, of course.  I don't know if I have a blind spot re UC or what, but everything about it just pisses me off. I will take another look at it using your suggested POV of the alien sociologist.  I'm sure there's at least one phaeton thetan/L Ron Hubbard joke in there somewhere, too.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 26, 2007, 09:49:22 PM
Cool, harrie, the take in the Cack on the debate (the sigboth agreed) is that "John Edwards was John Edwards.  Hilary didn't hurt herself.  Obama gained a little ground by anticipating the CONFEDERATE FLAG QUESTION by saying it "belongs in a museum."

It sounds worse when you type it, I mean, it really does belong in a museum, but anyway we are red state red type red red red...

We have great barbeque, but the Republicans put the flag off the State House and onto Main Street, which was the evil genius of Glenn McConnell come to life...oh, okay, off of the symbolic place above the state house in Columbia to the STATE GROUNDS (well patrolled) where to anybody who likes movies can appreciate the difference between a kite and a punch in the mouth.

I always took the position that it (the flag) deserved a place somewhere on the grounds, so that people who lost their loved ones might grieve, etc., but the most interesting thing is that "Captain Kirk" (I've only heard him called this once while he was at a Clemson game and I said "Dave.....Dave!!!," David Beasley lost his bid as a Republican for among other missteps (I still say the job of a Gov. is foremost to get re-elected but others admire his "moxie"?") by suggesting that the flag be removed from the State House, which it eventually was, only to resurface embarassingly to most white South Carolinians, right there at the place where the State House Grounds meet Main Street, what a slap in the face.

I personally liked it on top of the State House but only because of fuck you feds than anything else, if it makes people feel lousy I want it down.

What I hate is the flag being used as a political tool by racists or political opportunists who oppose its display.  Hell, I like the stars and bars and have a friend who is black and don't think that our flag now should be hidden away just because of the war crimes that are committed under it's auspice, any more than we should forget the war back when.  I hate slavery, but carpet bombing ain't so hot neither...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 26, 2007, 10:22:47 PM
God Howard Fineman is such a piece of shit loser Hilary tool.  Unbelievable.  Nobody gives her that debate.  He says Obama on his heels, totally wack, I mean, now I feel what it's like to be black (joke), just kidding, etc., but really, I'm not even a blogger even close and only a beer person with movie jokes but Howard Fineman is an authentic jer(close your eare Harrie)-koff and I don't think that that guy has anything but a Hilary agenda on his mind.  He is literally the only guy who said she won.

I thought she lost ground.

Am I nuts.

Note:  I'm not, Barack won cool point and Hilary looked like a chicken pecking at corn.

Didn't want to go all third world, I guess that makes me an @starhole.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on April 27, 2007, 09:06:19 AM

Didn't want to go all third world...

Especially not after what "AI: Artificial Intelligence" did to them.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 27, 2007, 05:56:17 PM
Hate it when I "gleam the cube," "couch the coherency," and otherwise type.

Sounds like Cage and Moore look visibly miserable on screen in "Next," though Darghis seems to want to jump on Jessica Biel, join the clubs.

I think I may get around to watching the 007 one tonight, "Kill Me Some Other Year" or whatever it's called, looking forward to it but have to locate the damn thing.  Unlike Ballbuster cases, Netflix sleeves will hide anywhere, them somebitching is some slippery little sombitches.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 28, 2007, 12:19:51 AM
Just got done watching "The Big Heat" with Glenn Ford and Lee Marvin, I really could give you a thousand or two words but (collective whew) I'll just suffice it to say that what I liked the most is that it was a screenplay and film that is directly audience driven and that the jokes have to be in the screenplay for the writer and the, I reckon, frequently Freudian, set design (a couple of penis lamps, a couple of vagina drapes," sorry, but there I'm hard boiling it down.  No, fantastic movie and Marvin is great almost jumping out of his skin to delineate the fifties from the sixties when he says "Go ahead and kill me..." crazily to Ford, off the scale of 1-7.5 on the audience meter by about 2.5 and you wonder why it stayed in except for all the (I guess) economical long shots in the film.  It shares that visceral quality with other more notable noirs but you feel like, you know, like you probably just went to watch "The Big Heat" and it had the revenge, the slut, the guy who beats up on girls, etc., but then it's got that other thing that makes people care the next 20 times.  I might figure out what happened next time but I was a little intrigued by the way the director (getting ready to figure out who that was) seemed to save celluloid and show off at the same time.  I mean, why else would you make people say long lines and set up long shots unless you wanted to save money, right???

But I can't say enough about storytelling.  Glenn Ford ends up beating up on a girl (woman) who deserves it in the third act and he has literally had to turn in his badge, been accused of insanity, actually has a card game going for the hoods who are watching his daughter (tip to the illegal gambling joint that he goes to in the first act), I mean the screenplay is airtight, and funny.

Some of the opening shots make you want frames of them, I mean, not really, who wants the long shot of Glenn Ford getting an apartment for the first time, empty room, etc.

Hell I really like Glenn Ford.

I mostly liked how most of the star management seemed to collide with star-mismanagement, and how Ford played a guy bordering on insane toward the end, but still held it together, it's all in the eyes, and I know that he knew what he was doing...

...and that makes me happy.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on April 30, 2007, 05:32:31 PM
"Disturbia" gets the award for being tops three weeks in a row, a rarity for a non-blockbuster solid moneymaker.  Great for D.J. Caruso who looks like a guy to make a bargain ($13M budget) blowout for you.  Above $50M now, the film should end up with around 85 theatrically, pick well, young Shia, the world be your oyster.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on April 30, 2007, 07:57:33 PM
I rented The Departed this weekend, and found the DVD had no extras or special features.  Refreshing.   The hand of Scorsese at work?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 02, 2007, 11:14:32 AM
This place seems fairly sedate.  Must be gardening related.  For those of us how don't garden, these are lonely times.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 02, 2007, 12:17:00 PM
This place seems fairly sedate.  Must be gardening related.  For those of us how don't garden, these are lonely times.

Hey, bart. If you're referring to me specifically, I just haven't seen too many movies lately, even on TV.  Plus, having some TCOB issues that come and go.  (Note to self: Rent The Constant Gardener....)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 02, 2007, 01:18:10 PM
Or should I have addressed that "Hey, fart." ?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 03, 2007, 08:54:11 AM
Perhaps we could skirt the whole issue and settle for "Art" ?  Art for art's sake.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 03, 2007, 10:15:09 AM
CHAPTER ONE

Things to Consider When Selecting a Screen Name


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 03, 2007, 11:58:30 AM
1)  Putting "bottle" in your screen name when you are apt to go on bent and incoherent rants while under the influence of intoxicating liquor(s) and beer, but epecially beer, is not necessarily a wise decision. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 03, 2007, 12:07:40 PM
Is farton bink any relation to JarJar?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 03, 2007, 12:15:31 PM
Wisk, are you receiving the private messages I've been sending you?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 03, 2007, 12:18:10 PM
Just noticed them.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 03, 2007, 04:50:41 PM
1)  Putting "bottle" in your screen name when you are apt to go on bent and incoherent rants while under the influence of intoxicating liquor(s) and beer, but epecially beer, is not necessarily a wise decision. 

Maybe, but truth in advertising is a beautiful thing.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 03, 2007, 05:39:43 PM
...I've always thought that slurring your posts is an honorable pursuit...

...even if you occasionally have to own something incomprehensible...

...my only solace is that nicknames like "k-fed" and "j-lo" were very in vogue at the time, I suppose it could've been worse, something like "pisschrist69" or anything more openly insulting instead of a general sort of implicit disclaimer, small solace that I may have made someone nose their ginger ale onto their keyboard, which is all I'm really shooting for...

...at least it got me kicked off of 3EYE, despite the kind tolerance of L., form my politically incorrect jokes, and for my being allegedly homophobic by making fun of "Brokeback Mountain" and being "anti-personal trainer" for my extemporaneous and poorly thought out juicing slurs...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 03, 2007, 08:43:22 PM
That guy Brownback seems like the most reasonable alternative to people who don't like the idea of a female (or "Clintonian") President.  He's cool as a cucumber and seems very easy with his place in the world and a lot of those guys look like theirs ass is still stinging from the hotseat.  Namely, Giuliani looks like a MAYOR, and the other (pardon) Italian is terrible on his feet.  Romney comes off like a fake, and the frontrunner looks coached.  Wow.  This could be a nice fllip if people didn't spin and only saw, but we know the drill.  McCain stayed on message (yawn), Guiliani looked tough if not eloquent (yawn), but Brownback, pardon me, looked "Presidential," and Romney is totally and utterly done, over, he is a landslide pushover.  I will give you 100/1 odds on him being Pres. up to a $100,000 limit just to take your grand.  Over.

Man I thought the Dem. field was weak, I'm guessing that Tenn. actor anounces this week.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 03, 2007, 08:50:01 PM
...Man I thought the Dem. field was weak, I'm guessing that Tenn. actor anounces this week.

Cloonz?  No, Kentucky.  Hmmm... maybe

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001313/ (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001313/)

?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 03, 2007, 09:07:38 PM
I think I meant to say I heart Huckaby vs. "Brownback," but I haven't been focused on the Rep. field, and more on that next can.  No, Cloonz(y) has announced publicly that he's "done too many bong hits" to be considered a political candidate.

I don't think that's true, and probably that other guy from Tenn. has smoked the tree, too.  I mean when is everybody going to admit that everybody smokes pot???

I mean, do you know anyone who didn't smoke pot who you were friends with?  They turn out to be what my sister would call (while reading "Us" mag.) a "bless his heart."  She's funny about the Southern way of talking, like aw, "bless his heart," or "She's a little 'bless her heart'," meaning of course, they know not what they did.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 03, 2007, 09:27:46 PM
There are so many guys on stage that I meant both, all the other candidates are ding-dongs in my regard.  Especially Romney has come off as fake, true or not, it's how he appears.

McCain:  This is complicated for me because I used to like him and still do and respect his service but I can't respect that he didn't bite Karl Rove and Bush when they screwed him in my home state of South Carolina in a string of dirty political moves that led to the worst human and political disaster of the twenty-first century, I mean, you have a guy that wins New Hampshire and gets gut-shotted and doesn't come back with "I'm not going to respond to a DUI draft-dodger who makes records disappear and who has used Cocaine..."  Game over in SC, and I feel sorry for McCain who thought, yeah, steady the ship, but the fact that "we" were the fulcrum that turned the nightmare, to mix a metaphor, has always bothered me.  And the fact that he ate it and made up rather than hold a grudge (look back how they dishonorably fucked him in the primary if you happen to think I'm nuts), has always bothered me about his character.

The fact that he is the pro-war candidate now is the same reason he suckered under and pulled out of the race when he did and now he's too fucking old to be where he is and he made too many bad deals...no thanks, as much as I respect his public service, I need somebody to swim nukes who ain't made like that...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 03, 2007, 10:19:27 PM
Okay, apologies for the off-topic, but fucking stem-cell, we're at war, "all options are on the table" from the Dems, and Iran flirting from the GOP, really, Jesus Christ, what is going on...this is a fool's parade as far as I can tell, and I'm mad as hell (and toxic), but let me say this much...

...the ticket is Edwards/Hilary, and I would like a description of a ticket to beat that, otherwise I feel like I've lost my mind, I feel bad, and depressed about the state of affairs, and would likle encouragement that there is a reasonsble alternative...I'm sorry that I'm off movies but I kind of feel like the Nixon depressants, I mean, whatcould be a "good idea" for "responsible government," and if there are no thoughts I guess I respect that, too, but either I've had too much to drink, or I'm "reasonably concerned," and I'm starting to care not which, and only about ME, and I really, really, hate that idea above all others...

Lost in South Carolina and hoping,

jbottle


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 04, 2007, 12:09:29 AM
Talked to my gal ("sigboth") who told me to not cash in my 401(k) and move to Hollywood based on my assertion that before I turn 36 I should find out what my real value in the marketplace is on a writing team and pitch "Perish the Thought," the mini-series about a plantation during the Civil War ("...of NORTHEN AGRESSION"), you all (y'all) know it's a great idea but fuck it they cancelled "Deadwood," and that had real writers...the main idea is an Anne Frank type and hidden valuables during the first season, and things like slaves defending the people they grew up with, and other matters including an open suicide to end the first episode upon the news that the tobacco fields were all burned, right after offering the invading troops tomato sandwiches...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 04, 2007, 10:56:51 AM
If I push the "FOREVER" option on the login box, will it really log me in forever?

Jbotnik -- I'm thinking more a Hilary/Obama ticket.  Do the math, you've got the blacks with Hilary, and the women with Obama, and that adds up to a majority of the electorate.

Brownback has the look, but he's deeply conservative and just a bit too far right for where the country is going these days. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 04, 2007, 11:08:39 AM
Okay, apologies for the off-topic, but fucking stem-cell, we're at war...

Say, that reminds me... is "Film Threat" still at war with "Premiere", now that the print edition of "Premiere" has shut down?  If so, does that mean "FT" won?   Or maybe "FT" lost that war a long time ago and "Premiere" shutting down is just after-the-fact?  Or maybe "Premiere" defeated "FT" but the victory was pyrrhic or whatever?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 04, 2007, 12:24:03 PM
Barton:  I see the logic of Hilary/Obama but feel that a Southerner to the left of Hilary would bring more strategy to the table regarding electoral votes:  You've got to win some Southern state even though Hill/Ed is DOA in Edward's home state of NC and birthplace South Carolina.  Because there is such a great population of blacks in the South, Obama is largely irrelevant as far as trying to motivate a populus that fails to vote more than any other groups for a variety of factors. 

Without a Southern State you have to have a sweep of Ohio, Michigan, and a handful of other states that could go blue or red.  I don't know if Illinois is a shoo in with Obama, but even so, that probably means the Dems are winning Ohio and Mich anyway.

Edwards doesn't bring any more gravitas to the table than Obama, maybe less despite their shared lack of experience in foreign policy, but it's a little troubling that Obama has admitted to using Cocaine, and I think that it gives the ticket a decided disadvantage in the South (and wherever else this may be true) because of lingering racism, unfortunately. 

Southerners don't like Hilary's tough demeanor in the same way they love Mrs. Bush's demure and dignified and soft-spoken manner and apparent kindness.  Add Edwards though and you have "one of us" on the ticket who is genteel and kind and I think it goes a long way in balancing the feel of the ticket.  You also get the sense that like Hilary, Obama is a shrewd shark and you don't get that feeling from Edwards, in other words, his lack of seeming ambitious despite running for President again helps as well in the intangible way you look at a "team" in the race.

I thought that Guiliani was especially poor last night, though, because he has that glib manner typical of dealing directly with difficult constituents, and he really needs to humanize his delivery, slow down, appear thoughtful rather than knee-jerk in his responses.  I don't think he was ready but he could do better with fewer men on the stage and I expect the field to thin out in 4 months time because of money.

In a perfect world, I don't mind Hilary/Obama, but I feel strongly that it's too problematic a team that could derail in a way that Hilary/Edwards could seemingly not lose simply by not dropping the ball, especially now that McCain is so levered to Iraq and seems to have lost his Maverick credibility by getting his ass kicked around by Karl Rove and the Bush Cabal, taking it, and then getting on board by supporting the administration.  I know that he has to actually hate Bush/Rove, and the fact that he has cut a deal with them for support after they lied about him and called him insane puts his credibility on any subject at about nil for me. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 04, 2007, 10:16:12 PM
Oil:  I regard the demise of print "Premiere" as a "Film Threat" win, despite the fact that "Film Comment" and "Cinema:  Not Cinema" seem to dominate the academic and generally erudite and educate film Community.  I've never felt like a snob when I saw an article pointing out the Marxist subtext in "Freddy Got Fingered" and "The People Under the Stairs," in other words, there's a place for rhetoric, both common and more advanced.  The article on the irony of direct Freudianism in a purported teen sex farce about "The Party Animal" led to a departure en masse of the entire secretarial staff during the late '80's, all 3 in fact, and yet "Cinema: Not Cinema" has remained a steady voice of calm pseudo-intellectual rabble-rousing that separates itself ever so discreetly from tabloid journalists content to look up the skirt of pop icons which, with disgust, we all see on various internet journalism sites.  I raise a champagne glass to "Premiere," and hope that the integrity and je ne sais quoi that they always have had remains, salut, and best wishes.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 06, 2007, 01:41:14 AM
The sigboth has said tonight that my primary objection to "The Black Dahlia" being "too yellow" was shortsighted and without merit.  She conceded that while the film was very yellow, that there were a number of dramatic elements to appreciate, and I reckon there's where we disagree.  Eckhart stops talking about halfway through the film, and that was a problem for me.  Also, the number of dangling threads we're photo-finish with the red herrings, thanks, I imagine, to a well-paid studio editor, pissed-off director and line producer, or whomever is supposed to keep the plot straight, if possible.

Some fine work, but I couldn't help, with all the yellowness, of being reminded of Michael Cimino's fine western, cut to shreds, and had the vague idea that maybe at DePalma's age he was going to make an expensive yellow one for the suits to chew on and fuck you...but I couldn't really even sell that idea to myself but for a second.

In terms of Hartnett being a decent guy for things to revolve around like the best of Tom Cruise and Charlie Sheen, I thought he was adequate, but I would've liked to have seen Eckhart in that role, but then you have to scuttle the boxing line, and, as if the movie weren't problematic enough, more problems...

Whether the two-time Oscar winner was miscast or just awful is of similar interest, especially when DePalma is a slash and burn filmmaker who wouldn't mind showing a failed performance in a failed movie, but you always get the feeling of failure with DePalma, and if he had to take Hilary Swank with him, ah, wtf?

Johansenn is about fifty-fiddy, with good and awful scenes, and the only unscathed one who emerges is Eckhart, and as usual, DePalma, who obviously got his child taken from him as soon as the umbilical cord could be cut, so that the real cutting might begin...I would've liked to have seen his version, but I also think that with noir you might have to make that fundamental decision to push toward postmodernism or parody ("The Long Goodbye," "The Big Lebowski," no particular order), or else make it a digestible police procedural that one can follow and enjoy.

But then we're talking about Brian DePalma, for whom a nearly indecipherable studio cut of his sloppy film set and made in Hollywood just adds mystery and folklore to a guy that's capable of almost anything and powerful enough to have nearly everything taken away. 

Huh?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 07, 2007, 09:05:08 AM
Rule of 2's with "Hollywoodland"?  I haven't seen either, but still.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 07, 2007, 11:46:04 AM
The Host is at the univ. theater here -- being hyped as a Korean monster film on the level of "Jaws" -- anyone seen it?

Jbot -- you make a good case for Edwards, and I must defer to your more direct knowledge of the southern voter.  Not being clear on where the boundaries of the South lie, I am wondering if her time spent in Arkansas would help in softening some of those flinty Northern edges.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 07, 2007, 03:53:14 PM
The boundary is basically what people in Maryland consider themselves, and whether you count Texas and Oklahoma (I don't).  I don't really count Florida either, for reasons that should be obvious (...the historical presence of Spanish-speaking people, a disproportionate number of retirees, the predominance of a particular type of white trash that may have come from anywhere in retreat of somewhere, etc.

I think I'll netflix "Hollywoodland," and yeah, it fits the rule as a period thriller though the subject matter is somewhat more differentiated than, like, "asteroid," or "volcano," more on the level of "Dragonfly," "The Mothman Prophecies," and to a lesser extent "The Butterfly Effect." 

Sometimes you just go on feel, as with "Bless the Child" and "Lost Souls" in 2000 or say "The End of Days" and "Stigmata" from 1999, which (please note) feature Gabriel Byrne prominently in performances that require the nuance of "creepy."

"Autumn in New York" and "Sweet November" are self-explanatory though problematic from the "Did we really need two movies where the hot girl dies from a terrible disease that makes the new romance fleeting by design?" 

But I digress.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 08, 2007, 10:37:26 AM
You may digress, but I have to admire the way you keep applying the paddles and shouting "charge!" as you try to get a steady pulse from the new message board here.  I still think of "Mothman" as a Jewish surname, for some reason, e.g. Leonard Mothman.  But you have to remember I'm still struggling to understand "Copland" as a film that is NOT a biopic of a great 20th century American composer.  The Butterfly Effect stands out in my memory as maybe the worst film ever made in the time-twist genre.

It's amusing when politicians try to absorb some southernness, in search of widening the voter base --- I wonder to what degree Hillary will try to do this.  I remember Bush Sr. and his attempts to be somewhat Texan, though his roots and upbringing were pure New England brahmin.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 08, 2007, 11:05:04 AM
But you have to remember I'm still struggling to understand "Copland" as a film that is NOT a biopic of a great 20th century American composer. 

Did you really dislike this film, or is this all about the joke?  I like Copland a lot, but don't like Copland at all, just for the record.

And I'm sorry, but after watching Bushie's escapades with the Queen, I think New England as a whole has disowned him.  W's birth city of New Haven let go of any claim to him loooong ago, and I believe they were happy to do so.  Texas can have him.  As soon as HRH returns to the homeland, I wouldn't be surprised if she declares war on us.  Unless she pities us too much because we have a dumbass President.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 08, 2007, 12:47:09 PM
I like "Copland" -- twas joking about names.

Yes, I think of Bush the Younger as Texan, though I think even Texas might want to get some distance from him after his attempts to talk trash with the Queen of England.  Though I did my level best to ignore all news of her visit, and Bush's usual inanities, I was unable to escape hearing of his joke about QEII being at least 300 years old. 

Classy.

Bush the Elder at least had some brains and some polish.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jeniferlewis on May 08, 2007, 02:41:36 PM
Harrie, you don't like Aaron Copland?  Is it his work you don't like, or did you meet him and find the experience less than satisfactory?  Personally, I find his Appalachian Spring to be a masterpiece and his film work (e.g. Our Town)  most effective.

Speaking of films, my favorite films this year so far are The Queen and Pan's Labyrinth.  I have no wish to see Spiderman 3 but Mr. Lewis wants to see it so he'll go on his own.  I can already hear his "You were right."  We both want to see The Hand That Shakes The Barley.

(Thanks for the link BTW!)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 08, 2007, 03:24:38 PM
"Pan's Labyrinth" was great - I almost tried to start a chant of "G-D-T! G-D-T!" as the credits rolled.

For another good artsy movie, try "Das Leben Der Anderen" or something like that - "The Lives of Others", about a writer and a Stasi officer in the last days of the GDR.   

I've heard good things about "The Hand That Shakes The Barley".  All I know is that there hasn't been such a great spoonerism-potential title since "A Tale of Two Cities".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 08, 2007, 03:31:09 PM
"The Shand That Bakes The Harley", by Darles Chickens


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 08, 2007, 03:40:57 PM
The only movie I've seen at the Cineplex this year was "Fracture," which I liked as a title but I thought it was going to allude to a sort of multiple-personality disorder like Ed Norton had in "Primal Fear," and spoilers for those who didn't see that one, when I say "had" I meant "faked."  Now that Norton performance was the thing that elevated another pretty dumb script by taking his character seriously enough to be creepy, but not serious enough to be hammy, like Hopkins does with Lecter.  I was hoping of more from Hopkins, but not his fault, there was just not much there to do...

...at least you can could count on Pacino for being able to sniff out where, okay, the only way this is going to be fun for me or the audience is for me to take over and go for broke, who cares, I'm playing a lawyer/devil, there's really no other choice...

Denzel has the breezy charm to get you through some of his more-poorly penned films, I don't know, I find myself missing movie movies, I guess I'll have to go see "Disturbia" now.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 08, 2007, 03:52:38 PM
As it turned out, all "Fracture" meant was "This is a cool-sounding movie title..."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 08, 2007, 04:47:29 PM
Harrie, you don't like Aaron Copland?  Is it his work you don't like, or did you meet him and find the experience less than satisfactory? 

Hey, Jenifer -- I think it was the overzealous elementary school music teacher who shoved Hoedown down our throats.  A large portion of the class was scarred for life by the experience.  When they ran those "Beef -- it's what's for dinner" spots a while back, it was hell -- I'd twitch every time one came on.

We finally saw Boogie Nights -- that's a great movie, a wild ride that we enjoyed very much. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 08, 2007, 08:40:16 PM
It had to ha've been ("was") much better than you'd expected, right?

"I'm smart.  I can do things..."

I particularly like the first half, but PTA is devastating in the way he he gives it to you in three distinct acts, so amazingly fully realized for a "first" film, so confident and the guy was 26.  Orson Welles, he seemed to intimate, especially with that opening shot that reminded me of "Touch of Evil" a little, but then like QT it seems like he must've talked and coked his mind out himself over the last ten years, damn, it's true, you should take an immediate studio gig just to get back in the saddle, no matter what and get the sophomore flop out of your system, but with a little dough, I guess there's a cave you can go to...Scorcese talked about it...and about cocaine..."we were trying to see if we would die..." he commented sardonically about his time indoors from the California sun watching films in a makeshift home theater.

Not everybody can be Aston Kutcher and make the dough and seemingly have fun with it and ride the thing, I mean, PTA doesn't even have that much dough I wouldn't think...damn, I sometimes wonder what guys like that are doing tonight, is it like "Entourage," something much weirder, or something much more boring?

He's got time on his side, anyway...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 08, 2007, 08:50:48 PM
It had to ha've been ("was") much better than you'd expected, right?

Actually, based on the NYTFF opinions, I expected it to be pretty good.  I missed the first 15-20 minutes, but have it recorded to watch again, which we definitely will.  (IFC showed it Saturday night.)  Strangely, the part that stuck with me -- besides the Alfred Molina part -- was when Dirk was learning to do the party thing, and talking about his authentic Italian (polyester) shirt as part of his talking up girls he was dancing with.  Maybe it was him being himself, but I thought he played it perfectly as far as trying to act like he thinks a self-assured grown-up acts, all the while being a nervous kid trying out his act. 

I really disliked Mark Wahlberg based on that whole Marky Mark/Calvin Klein thing, but he can actually act.  Now that I say that, I think I've already said that about something else he did.  Now that I say that, I think I've already said that about something else he did.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 08, 2007, 11:01:59 PM
Yeah, and he gets a lot of because of being street the idea that "he plays Mark Wahlberg" pretty well," but that's always bullshit, you could say the same thing about Julianne Moore, it either comes off as real or as horseshit, and you don't get it by training necessarily or from the street or from being a performer, or from being from Yale School of Drama (and hey, big fan of Duchovny, and others), but yeah, he's the real thing and the people who try to explain it away are jealous because they were born with money and can't do shit or learned something in school that makes them smart and in no movies.  I think playing a hood in "Fear" was an easy entry and he's got a great face for "menace" but there again, the reason he was so good is because he was acting, plain and simple. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 08, 2007, 11:48:39 PM
Okay, just saw a trailer for "Mr. Brooks," and, barring something unusual happening, I'm betting on Dane Cook and Costner for rasperries and for the picture.  This is the part of the Dane Cook four-picture deal ("Dana Carvey" pre-Myers) that is the silent studio fart before the real summer movies begin.   How long ago was the Jessica Simpson/Dane Cook one?   The one that tanked, uh, this one has been on the eject seat as guys at the studio jockey their horses for the release.  Comedy Centra, it's Dane Cook, their the only ones who will get this sleeper dark comedy guys, we play guerilla here at the independent wing, that's why we had to shoot it in 14 weeks to begin with?  Do you want me to get our viral marketing guy in here?  He's like the Google Herpes...c'mon, we need this winner, but we've never been "playing safe" guys, we're going in rubberless and hoping the American public becomes our "babies mama" over the next few weeks.  If not, we've all been dating, so...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 09, 2007, 11:55:08 PM
Note to self:  "Tennis Envy" probably not a good idea for a family picture where an Asberger's Syndrome kid hits only aces in the 14-16 yr. old juniors despite obvious social awkwardism.  In turnouround, with others...and with the usual apologies...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 10, 2007, 09:40:15 PM
j'quitte


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 10, 2007, 10:10:54 PM
Non, non -- ne quitte pas, M. bottle. Vos mots insightful de bon sens du cinéma éclairent le monde avec leur éloquence.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on May 11, 2007, 07:42:53 AM
egad. say it ain't so...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGqroT1FZ5Y


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 11, 2007, 10:12:25 AM
j'quitte

"Mah Fazzaire, Le Erro" - starring France's finest actor...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 11, 2007, 10:21:01 AM
Or is that the Fox Searchlight gem, "Les Enfants Terribly Miserables"?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 11, 2007, 12:51:50 PM
"Tous le Matin Tous les Enfants Terribe du Monde"



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 11, 2007, 01:44:37 PM
Larry, Curly et les mots!

Les Mots Bettaire Bleus

The Alle, Le Mot

La Mer(de) Salton











Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 11, 2007, 02:52:49 PM
Say, that reminds me of some "The Big Lebowski" trivia:

Bunny's car, the one she presumably crashed into the Big Lebowski's front lawn fountain after returning from visiting friends of hers in Palm Springs (just picked up and left, never bothered to tell us), has a vanity license plate - what word is on it?

Answer below...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 11, 2007, 03:00:14 PM
Say, that reminds me of some "The Big Lebowski" trivia:

Bunny's car, the one she presumably crashed into the Big Lebowski's front lawn fountain after returning from visiting friends of hers in Palm Springs (just picked up and left, never bothered to tell us), has a vanity license plate - what word is on it?

Answer below...



HOP2IT ?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 11, 2007, 03:04:52 PM
Answer to trivia question above...

"LAPIN"

It's a term used to describe an inexpensive rabbit fur that is dyed to make it look like more expensive fur.  This is interesting in the context of the Big Lebowski's vanity and perception of himself as wealthy and having achieved more than most men, and without the use of his legs, etc.   Eventually the Dude figures out that this is not the case, that TBL is a phony goldbricker, etc., after Maude reveals to him that the money was all mother's, we did let him run one of the companies, briefly, but he didn't do very well at it, we let him administer the charities now, for a reasonable allowance, he has no money of his own, he likes to present himself, his weakness is his vanity, hence the slut, etc...

Anyways, it speaks to the whole thing about achievement versus abidement, TBL's posturing as one who has attained wealth via achievement in business, etc., so the authors' selection of the word "LAPIN" on Bunny's license plate is in wry acknowledgement of that aspect of the tapestry or whatever.  

Or, maybe it's just that it's French for "rabbit" and her name is Bunny.

But still...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 11, 2007, 03:24:08 PM
Though I thought all the parler (ou ecriver) francais stuff made that question come to you, I like your first answer a lot more. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 11, 2007, 03:30:34 PM
I don't have the answers.... well, I have the answer to the "What was on Bunny's license plate?" question, but when it comes to "what does it mean in the movie," then your guess is as good as mine.  All I can do is think about it, depecer un poulet, and then post my thoughts and feelings. 

Combien de temps?  Yo no se - as long as it takes.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 11, 2007, 06:36:07 PM
It's a funny joke on trying to class-up the vanity plate of a tramp-named golddigger.

Note that she puts her car in the fountain while ostensibly "hopped up."

Note that the toe that is sent could be a poor joke on "rabbit's foot," that is, "Bunny's toe," but you never know how much of these things are accidental, thought up by the Coen's, or by some pencil-necked f*** at "Cinema/Not Cinema."

In his article "Cherchez la Lapin:  Noir, Nada, and Nonsense in 'The Big Lebowski,'"  Terrence Pembroke-Smiley's erudite explication of the post-modern je ne sais quoi that the Coen's bring to film noir--"One moment tittering gleefully mid-thorax, the next having the eye cast into a chasm where meaning overwhelms image, TBL is that rare mix of genre devolution and symbolic objectification of the sense over the image as well, only to take a hairpin turn toward an obscurantist sort of chaos dance over the literal, with some of the most compelling bowling ever filmed, a celebration of inane sport, archetypal rug envy and coitus, my mind floated like the ashes of Donny over the sound for what felt like days, then I looked at my watch, and it was next year..."





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 11, 2007, 09:51:39 PM
It's a funny joke on trying to class-up the vanity plate of a tramp-named golddigger.

Note that she puts her car in the fountain while ostensibly "hopped up."

Note that the toe that is sent could be a poor joke on "rabbit's foot," that is, "Bunny's toe,"... 

I've read the TPS report on "TBL" and just about everything else there is, and I've written extensively on the likes of beer nut theory and the Karabatsos lineage and the Great Midwestern Accent Conundrum, but the hopped-up-bunny-toe-rabbit-foot notion is one I have not seen or considered.  You, sir, have just posted an Original Thought, I think.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 11, 2007, 11:33:31 PM
I get those, especially as a summer intern at Cinema/Not Cinema, they paid peanuts but the black turtleneck and Asian Fusion was comp.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 12, 2007, 11:27:57 AM
We're going to be spreading my father's ashes this month, so the Donnie updraft debacle has been somewhat on my mind.  Casting them facing into the wind...not a "bonne idee" or a bunnie day, either.   There's a mesa near where the family farm was, and I'm thinking wait for relative calm and basically pour them down the cliff and hopefully gravity will do its job.  But if it's too calm, then you don't get much dispersal.

I'm not good on TBL trivia, but I imagine at least one of you remembers the brand of coffee can from whence Mr. Carabatsos merged with the cycle of life.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 12, 2007, 07:51:48 PM
Folgers.  Is TBL in the public domain or something?  In the past month it's been on Comedy Central, E!, and G4TV.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 13, 2007, 01:17:14 AM
It's a work of significant genius.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 13, 2007, 08:47:58 AM
Indeed it is.  I'm just not accustomed to works of significant genius -- or much of anything these days, really -- being all over the TV the way It's a Wonderful Life used to be.  Not that mass overexposure could dilute or otherwise hurt TBL, because (IMO) you always pick up on something you didn't notice before. 

I guess I just pictured some network honcho thinking "Hee hee --I've got The Big Lebowski all sewed up. It's mine, all mine to show judiciously for the next ten years."   Though now that I say that, it is a ratings period, so that's likely why everyone who owns TBL is playing it every five minutes.

Geez, can I suck all the fun out of movies or what?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 14, 2007, 01:03:27 AM
You don't suck the fun out of anything, harrie, I reckon.

(uncomfortable laughter)  No, I just made the GF watch "After Dark, My Sweet," James Foley's 1990 love note and shots fired calling card as a film noir expert, etc., but there is still that Patric performance that hits you gut level where you wonder, yeah, in 1990, I guess Kilmer could've done it, but, would anybody really have the confidence to be so into the part to the point where the camera stops shooting and the director tells him to yell at somebody?  Well, not James Foley, and not Patric, who riffs on his roots, and is just note perfect the whole time, and Bruce Dern who has that way of quick-switching a scam before you finish the sentence to make you supposedly think you thought of it and finished his sentence:  The desperation and loser that reeks off of Dern in that movie is the kind of thing that you buy thinking it's a diamond, and whammo, it's cubic zirconia, fooled 'ya, see, I was acting, just because it was shiny.....

Anyway, I Netflixed it and love noir, it's not a masterpiece, but it shoul definitely be seen, and if you are a fan of noir, that chess game of hardscrabble losers that it is, trust me, it's most essential.

Up next:  "Lucky Number Slevin" and/or "Shooting Aces" or "Lucky Aces," the Piven one that is pulper than PF.....I guess I'm on a noir trip, but then, like the Coens seemed to have decided at one time, ain't we all, or rather, how else do you make a better movie in 90-100 min.?

It cain't be done, that's it, and it's the best when you look around at the cast of characters and they're all rotten, except for maybe one, depending on what they knew and when they knew it.....and all that.....



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 14, 2007, 10:10:56 AM

Was "cain't be done" a noir-based pun on James M. Cain?  If so, bravo!

I actually don't care for noir in film that much, so when I like a noir film it's because it is outstanding, like TBL or Double Indemnity.  Though the subgenre, "tumbleweed noir" (e.g. John Dahl) has a haunting attraction for me.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 14, 2007, 03:17:30 PM
RE: "28 Weeks Later"

If it's a "rage virus," then why don't the infected "rage" on each other?

I've posted this question on the NYTFF and in comments below Tobesie's B+ review on theonion.com, but I'm still confused.  If anyone has answered this already, please forgive me for forgetting what your answer was and re-post it - thanks!!!

If the following seems disjointed (moreso than my usual disjointedness), it's because it was cut-and-pasted from my posts on theonion.com

Here goes:

I mean, it seems that the virus instills in the infected a powerful urge to "rage," to the exclusion of all other civilized (or social or interpersonal or whatever) activity. If that's the case, are we to believe that an infected would, upon seeing another infected, suddenly put aside his or her urge to rage, and think to himself or herself, "Hmmm, that person's infected just like me... I think I'll hold off on raging for now. I think I'll just go find someone else - someone uninfected - to rage on..."

My understanding is that the virus fills you with rage, that rage becomes the one dominant characteristic in your personality. All you want to do is rage, to the exclusion of anything else. If I'm right about that, then, notwithstanding the ability of an infected to detect (via smell or otherwise) infection in another infected, I would think that an infected would just "rage" on the closest available object, whether that object was a non-infected person, an infected person, or a can of corn.   To suggest otherwise is to suggest that an infected is capable of a rational meeting of the minds, so to speak, e.g., "Ah, hello there fellow infected. Let's not rage on each other - after all, we're both infected. Let's instead go find a non-infected person to rage on, shall we?"

I get the concept of you don't need to have an understanding of every little minor detail in order to appreciate a movie. I don't know how a tractor-beam works, but I still liked "Star Wars".

However, where the source of the confusion is the motivation of an important character, which in this case is the monster/antagonist, i.e., the collective infected, then I don't think you're in the realm of "minor detail" anymore. It's a "Rage" virus... it's not me who's making a big deal out of it - the movie itself makes a big deal out of it. The movie itself is centered around the "Rage" virus - it's the thing that drives everything.  Therefore, it seems to me that the symptoms of those infected by the virus, i.e., the sense of "rage" felt by the infected, can't be dismissed as a minor detail, and therefore, confusion as to why the infected don't "rage" on one another isn't a minor quibble.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 14, 2007, 07:27:01 PM
"I don't know how a tractor-beam works..."

You press the button.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 14, 2007, 10:22:02 PM
You'll never get me up on a horse...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 14, 2007, 11:25:14 PM
I like 'em young.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 15, 2007, 10:52:55 AM
Breaking news.....Steven Seagal is shooting today and tomorrow in Bridgeport -- I may have to mosey over there for lunch or something.  The bad news.....another Seagal movie is on its way to a theater near you.  Or at least a video store shelf.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 15, 2007, 10:56:10 AM
A tractor beam is what you bolt the tractor's engine to.  

Earlcanbird:  I, too, was mystified by the "rage virus" in 28 Days Later.  While watching I tried to fill in the blanks by postulating (as opposed to pustulating, which there was a'plenty in the film) that the rage-filled ones had some kind of compulsion to infect others who were not infected, and so concentrated on them.   And I don't recall that the ragers focused their attacks exclusively on the non-infected, i.e. didn't they attack each other if there were no non-infecteds around?  Wasn't that why there would be piles of dead bodies, the aftermath of rage orgies, so to speak?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 15, 2007, 10:57:42 AM
Who is Stephen Seagal shooting today?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 15, 2007, 10:58:56 AM
I remember an interview with Tom Arnold in regards to when he was working on a Steven Seagal movie.  He was walking by Seagal's trailer and Seagal called him over.  Seagal, says to him, "I just finished reading the greatest screenplay ever."   When Tom Arnold asked him who wrote it, Seagal said, "I did."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 15, 2007, 11:35:08 AM
And I don't recall that the ragers focused their attacks exclusively on the non-infected, i.e. didn't they attack each other if there were no non-infecteds around?  Wasn't that why there would be piles of dead bodies, the aftermath of rage orgies, so to speak?

I don't remember anything like that, i.e., I thought I remembered that it was pretty clear in "28DL" that infecteds were only interested in raging on uninfecteds, but I only saw the movie once, so I could be totally wrong about that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 15, 2007, 11:38:28 AM
I didn't even get that far into 28 Days Later -- hubby and I both agreed to kill it after about 5 minutes. 

We did get through Heaven, with Cate Blanchett and Giovanni Ribisi.  While watching it, we were hooked enough to forgo the hockey game -- though it was the Red Wings, so no big sacrifice -- but the more I think about Heaven, the less I like it.  Basically, Cate Blanchett wants to kill a drug dealer and kills four innocent people instead.  She is jailed (maybe because she called the cops, told them what she did and what her name is); and young policeman Giovanni Ribisi, seeing that she is basically a decent person, falls in love with her and helps her to 1) kill the guy she meant to kill; and 2) escape.   

What I really enjoyed about Heaven was the beauty of the film.  In fact, I think maybe that's why I stayed with it when my reality meter should have been going off the chart.  The photography was stunning, and the scenery strkingly beautiful.  The story, the more I think about it, is artificial, almost heightenedly so, and possibly intentionally so as well.  So for me it's one of those "check your brain, refuse to think, and enjoy the scenery" flicks, if you're someone who can do that.  I can. 

On the other hand, I have a tough time overlooking some glaring issues in the film:  Would a decent/good person plot to kill another person, even if that person is evil?  And then, after killing four innocents, keep on in the quest to kill the intended subject?  No matter how convinced that what you are doing is the right thing, do you really call the police, and confess, giving them your name as well?  Why not then just walk into the police station, put your wrists out, and say "Here I am, and this is what I did...."?  Even though Blanchett and Ribisi are on the run and keeping a low profile, no passersby say "Hey, what's with the two grubby-looking people dressed alike over there?"  The film is set in the present day, and there shouldn't be any communications issues; therefore there should really be no safe place to lay low or hide.

Heaven was written by the well-known Krzystzof Kieslowski (I may have a spelling error in there), though I don't think I've seen any of his other work.  Anyone know if maybe this is just his style?  Like, is reality a minor inconvenience that doesn't get in the way of the allegory/tale/whatever in his world?  I don't mean that in a snarky way, having no love for reality myself.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 15, 2007, 11:41:15 AM
Oily -- Well, in any case, the whole premise was ludicrous, i.e. that a virus would have this single linear effect on every single person who caught it.  I think they tried to make it "science fiction," give it some veneer of scientific respectability, but really just went with the traditional fantasy "zombie" -- and zombies just want to turn us all into zombies, too.  It really doesn't make sense, but you don't question it in the context of a traditional zombie movie.  But if you try to elevate it to science fiction, then it immediately reveals itself as a really stupid premise.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 15, 2007, 11:42:22 AM
Seagal is shooting Marker -- maybe the greatest film ever written??  They're doing a car chase and a gun battle and have a couple of streets closed off.  Though, if it's the neighborhood I think it is, that's business as usual around there. 

A couple weeks ago, it was Sean Penn and DeNiro shooting in Bpt.  The times they are a-changin'...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 15, 2007, 11:49:03 AM
But if you try to elevate it to science fiction, then it immediately reveals itself as a really stupid premise.

I'm going to reserve judgment on that until after I see "28 Weeks Later" and "28 Years Later".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 15, 2007, 11:50:23 AM
Seagal is shooting Marker -- maybe the greatest film ever written??  They're doing a car chase and a gun battle and have a couple of streets closed off....

How does Seagal think these things up?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 15, 2007, 11:53:40 AM
How does Seagal think these things up?

He's just freakin' amazing.   He did write the greatest screenplay ever, after all.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 15, 2007, 03:37:39 PM
"I am hoping that I can be known as a great writer and actor some day, rather than a sex symbol."--Steven Seagal



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 15, 2007, 04:32:19 PM
You without clothes - well, I could not keep a straight face
Me without clothes - well, a nation turns its back and gags

-Moz


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 15, 2007, 06:22:57 PM
http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/random_roles_jon_gries

I didn't really know who this guy was until this interview, never connecting "Real Genius" and ND.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 15, 2007, 09:13:14 PM
I wish they had a few more Val-Kilmer-on-the-set-of-"Real Genius" stories in that Jon Gries interview.

I only saw "Kill Me Again" a couple times, so I don't remember if Gries had much of a part in it, but still - maybe they became buddies on "Real Genius" and when Val had some clout on "KMA" he said hey let's bring Griesey in for this one, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 15, 2007, 10:52:10 PM
I liked that Jon Gries story a lot. He's very cool.  Except he said "spot-on," but that's forgivable.  And he really was Ben's drunk drivin' abusive father!

So the hubby did see Steven Seagal today -- said that if he didn't know it was supposed to be Seagal, he thought he looked kinda like Gene Simmons.   No interaction report, no eavesdropping report - the hubby just had to walk by nearby and did so.  Which just goes to show, if you want to poke around and be properly invasive, you've got to do it yourself. 

On the news tonight, someone asked Seagal the secret to his career longevity -- he replied "I always do something different" or something to that effect.  Which I got a chuckle out of, anyway.  I mean, I actually liked Under Siege, but it's essentially the same storyline as just about any other Steven Seagal flick.

Next month, Indiana Jones IV is shooting in New Haven -- no word yet on whether any/which name actors will be filming, though.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 15, 2007, 11:35:17 PM
Harrie:  I hate to correct you, but "Under Siege" is "Die Hard on a Boat" with the caveat being that Seagal is a "cook" who has been demoted but is still cool with the Captain or Admiral or whatever, I think I'm riffing from Ebert's review but, the early Seagal ones were that he was a tough from the street, and actually Andrew Davis caught a lucky with Seagal and "Out for Justice" or whichever one the first one was because he comes back with cred and with Seagal and with a double-barrell of bad guys in Jones and Busey.  Unfortunately, "Under Siege II:  Dark, Dark Territory," was underthought out and had sort of a funny casting of Bogosian as bad guy, no prob, but then "Die Hard on a Train" not so much as Battleship.  I think the kid in that is the same one that's famous for being the good-looking one on that chick hospital TV one now, not sure.....

....."Under Siege" did have the daring to go for the two word title that one could imagine eliciting a sort of WTF? from the mullett crowd if it had gone straight to video, i.e., when did he start making art movies and what does "siege" mean, like, he was really hard to kill in "Hard to Kill" and all.....

Tell the husband to say "'Ticker".....I liked it..." if he gets close enough.....and if closer tell him to ask "Who was more fucked up on set:  Sizemo or Pete Greene?  Greenzy looks barely able to talk and Tommy is all sweats, ah, who cares...nice work...what about Michael Caine?  Couple ales I bet...ah, I don't want to bug ya..."

Harrie:  You should check the local watering holes for coeds with stories of "Seagal Hittings.....," apparently he goes young and blond after 9:00PM, but ayyy, so does the bottle, opening line, usually, (whisper) "this place sucks, let's get out of here..." and when that doesn't work I post on the internet and hide from the sigboth [all jokes].

Watching freaking "Blow Out" (again) and want to reaffirm that it's a masterpiece and am psyched that I found a "Taxi Driver" jacket at a local outlet, with some '70's cop shades and a mohawk, who knows, "look out 'Halloween'!!!," but no, those thoughts are unrelated other than I realized that there are a lot of tips to TD in BO and it appears that DePalma makes Travolta wear a lavender TD jacket at one point, a kind of inside color-scheme joke, but anyway, if anything, "Blow Out" makes you wistful for when they used to do production design consistent with an auteurist idiosyncratic tyrant like DePalma for nothing but peanuts and pot, but then I realize it's rare, and now any talent (like Travolta) from TV is too big a deat to just say "I'll do whatever you say...," etc., but anyway, thank God for "Blow Out," a masterpiece...

...and if you're trusting your memory and saying ("Well, I don't know about that, just see it again...)...

G'night y'all.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 16, 2007, 09:04:16 AM
I watched "Blow Out" last year and there were like 15 or 20 WTF?'s in there, and not in terms of plot or whatever, but just like huh? 

"Blow Out" *** SPOILER ***

Like at the end when John Lithgow is strangulating Nancy Allen and John Travolta is running to save her, you get a shot of Lithgow's hands around her neck, and then you get a shot of Travolta like 500 yards away running toward them, then you cut back to Lithgow and then Travolta bonks him on the head.   I know that "real time" isn't necessarily the same as "movie time", but still, when you have a sequence of shots like that, how can the viewer help but surmise that Travolta ran 500 yards in 2 seconds?  I know BDP's got a sense of humor (hence the gym-class calisthenics sequence in "Carrie") so maybe that's what it was. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 16, 2007, 09:06:56 AM
"Under Siege" was great because the bad guy makes the action movie and it had great bad guys.  In "Die Hard", you've got Rickman, in "Hard Target" you've got Henriksen and Vosloo, and in "Under Siege" you've got Tommy Lee Jones, Gary Busey and Colm Meaney.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: law120b on May 16, 2007, 10:24:27 AM
Quote
"Blow Out" *** SPOILER ***
there was a 500 yard moment of indecision, which didn't make the final cut.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 16, 2007, 11:10:18 AM
Slight digression, but this is still the right board --- sick of Blockbuster, though it's now the only video store close to where I live.  Way too expensive, when you only want to rent one film for one night.   Gave up on Netflix, who would always jerk me around about every third flick with "that's only at a warehouse outside of Sao Paolo, so it will arrive in about six days, instead of the usual one day..." or simply not have the recent film available.  There's a Hollywood video on the other side of town, which seems to have better selection than Bbust, and lower prices, so I'm going to give them a try.  If you know of other online services you like, I would consider them, as well.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 16, 2007, 11:17:03 AM
Slight digression, but this is still the right board...

By the power vested in me as a duly qualified Two-Star Junior Member, I hereby ratify your digression.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 16, 2007, 12:14:41 PM
I have 49 posts to your 59, I mean, as a newbie I can't complain, especially to a two-star superior, so forgive the insubordination, but you can only keep me a swab for so long before I become mutinous, highly asocial and agitated, and possibly even more incomprehensible at night.  That's not a threat, that's a promise.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 16, 2007, 12:16:05 PM
Weird, I guess "50" did the trick so from one junior member to another, ignore the previous, and "Cheers."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 16, 2007, 12:39:42 PM
Weird, I guess "50" did the trick so from one junior member to another, ignore the previous, and "Cheers."
You are, on the other hand, clearly subservient to me, "Jr. member."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 16, 2007, 12:42:40 PM
Yet somehow we're all subservient to NGC....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 16, 2007, 01:07:20 PM
These rankings based on a differential of a few days between signing up....it's like some kind of karma thing.  I just emerged from the wrong womb, cyberspatially speaking.  No wonder my name is little more than a "fart" in a windtunnel.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 16, 2007, 01:27:06 PM
I have 49 posts to your 59...

But how many HOURS have you logged?  And what is your time-of-day posting pattern?

Just check your profile page and find out... Just like the Snoopy Sno-Cone machine, "It's fun."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 16, 2007, 01:38:03 PM
One day all Sr. Members will suffer under the black boot of the Revolution!!!

Until then of course, I salute you in your grace and custom, and feel honored to bathe in the glow of your regal emanations.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 16, 2007, 05:21:08 PM
No respect until three stars, eh., well, I just may have to start posting about the universe and whether the Suns got jobbed, etc., I have ideas on a wide variety of subjects, and as God is my witness, I aim to put 'em in cyberspace.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 16, 2007, 05:59:12 PM
These rankings based on a differential of a few days between signing up....it's like some kind of karma thing.  I just emerged from the wrong womb, cyberspatially speaking.  No wonder my name is little more than a "fart" in a windtunnel.

Funny you mention that, as another place I post does numbers of posts and karma ratings, too. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 16, 2007, 06:06:24 PM
jbottle,  So what's the correction -- that Seagal's flicks are not just like all his other flicks but also like everyone else's action flicks?  Okay, I can see that.  You are correct once again.  I think I was having a rough day yesterday, thinking clearly-wise. When the hubby said the Gene Simmons thing, for a second I thought he meant Jean Simmons.  Now that would have been an improvement....   Anyway, I think we're done with Seagal.  The hubby didn't need to go downtown today, so no report.

whiskeypriest, since you have Kieslowski's grave as your avatar, I'm guessing you're knowledgeable on the man.  So.....am I a philistine? 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 16, 2007, 07:15:06 PM
Harrie, I was just pointing out, and especially now that I'm a Junior Member, that you made a newbie mistake, no, not really at all, but US I was just sayin' falls into the Bruce Willis oeuvre rather than the "street tough" or "vigilante" genre or "renegade cop" genre that had made Seagal more of a successor to Bronson and Eastwood rather than someting more "high concept" and well thought through as a "Die Hard."  So it was something of a departure, small point, small potatoes, and wanted to talk about why "Die Hard on a Train" with Eric Bogosian was a funny perversion of the Willis movie.

I like Seagal's IMDB bio which describes him as "boyishly handsome...," wondering who wrote that one, last Seagal comment for a while, like Ebert my mom has some weird affinity for his movies, I think it's that weird combination of soft voice, spastic running, slo-mo bad Peckinpah that is like a perfect je ne sais quoi storm.....you can't put your finger on it but it's mezmerizing almost like an infomercial about the "flowbee," you know you don't really need it, it's kind of ridic, but dammit, you can't stop watching...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 16, 2007, 07:29:50 PM
Oh.  I see.  It's aaaalllllll about the status, huh?  Well, Mr. "Jr. Member" -- not something I would brag about by the way -- oh, I got nuthin'.  Just kidding around.  As a newbie, am I required to say "Please sir, may I have another" or anything like that?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 17, 2007, 07:23:21 AM
Quote
So.....am I a philistine?
No ma'am.  You are a wise, kind, and generous person.  Just the type of person to whom I would gladly confide my ineffable delight in discovering that Elisha Cook, Jr., was in the 70's remake of The Champ (because in point of fact discovering things like that does delight me, and causes me to construct complex and apparently unsolvable trivia questions around them) if I was to confide that to anybody.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 17, 2007, 08:54:30 AM
These rankings based on a differential of a few days between signing up....it's like some kind of karma thing.  I just emerged from the wrong womb, cyberspatially speaking.  No wonder my name is little more than a "fart" in a windtunnel.

Funny you mention that, as another place I post does numbers of posts and karma ratings, too. 

How do you like the karma ratings? 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 17, 2007, 09:31:02 AM
How do you like the karma ratings? 

They're okay, people comment on them occasionally, as in "Hey, my karma's taken a beatin'" or "I smite thee for that comment" -- it's a smallish group, about 20-25 people, and it's all done with a sense of humor.  Like, there's one guy who takes pride in his -200 rating; just about everyone's got negative karma, but no one gets ticked about it. It probably helps that it's a hockey forum, so there's a locker room mindset to begin with.  The karma rating isn't something people obsess over, though.  At least, not that I know of.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 17, 2007, 09:36:25 AM
Harrie -

Just so you know, I have spoken to the Powers That Be and, due to your excellent contributins to the forum, you will be made a Jr. Member with your next post.  Keep up the good work.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 17, 2007, 09:37:23 AM
liq -

"Hero Member!"  I have a goal to live for!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 17, 2007, 09:37:57 AM
No ma'am.  You are a wise, kind, and generous person.  Just the type of person to whom I would gladly confide my ineffable delight in discovering that Elisha Cook, Jr., was in the 70's remake of The Champ (because in point of fact discovering things like that does delight me, and causes me to construct complex and apparently unsolvable trivia questions around them) if I was to confide that to anybody.

Why thank you, whiskey -- how kind of you. You don't have to believe me on this, but -- I had just finished posting that before I came here.  


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fartonbink on May 17, 2007, 10:41:46 AM
My taciturn nature has caught up with me, it seems.  I am still 32 posts from that second star and, though I do wonder if the universe just winks out of existence when I fall asleep, I am not ready to articulate my deeper speculations.  Jbottle and I embody different faces of Brahma, different wave crests in the existential ocean -- he is bursting with opinion, conjecture, challenge, rant, and whole roomful-of-monkeys-with-wordprocessors spells of glossolalia, echolalia, and marginalia --- I have only the sound of my one hand clapping and it is far far from stentorian.

---Longterm Newbie



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 17, 2007, 11:18:39 AM
My taciturn nature has caught up with me, it seems.  I am still 32 posts from that second star and, though I do wonder if the universe just winks out of existence when I fall asleep, I am not ready to articulate my deeper speculations.  Jbottle and I embody different faces of Brahma, different wave crests in the existential ocean -- he is bursting with opinion, conjecture, challenge, rant, and whole roomful-of-monkeys-with-wordprocessors spells of glossolalia, echolalia, and marginalia --- I have only the sound of my one hand clapping and it is far far from stentorian.

---Longterm Newbie



Well, hurry up, f/bart -- there's an open bar and free canapes over here!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 17, 2007, 01:08:22 PM
Welcome abroad, uh, aboard, harrie, you've joined the ranks of the phew, the loud, the maroons.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 17, 2007, 05:43:17 PM
In my estimation, just as one must see "O. C. & Stiggs" to fully appreciate the Altman canon or whatever, one must see "Ticker" to fully comprehend the Seagal oeuvre.  I like how also Seagal thinks he made an "environmental film."  Actually, I wasn't surprised when he showed up in the credits of Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth." 

Apparently "On Deadly Ground" (check out the cast) was the real wake up call:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110725/



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 17, 2007, 06:01:18 PM
Sorry for the "elbasm," but just noticed on an IMDB surf that Seann William Scott's bio says:

"His trademark "kaw-kaw, kaw-kaw" taunt is heard in The Rundown (2003) and Evolution (2001)."

I'm guessing that his "trademark" developed out of a love for "Bottle Rocket" ('96), a sound Dignan uses as a signal in one of the escapades.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 17, 2007, 06:23:23 PM
Quote
Apparently "On Deadly Ground" (check out the cast).....

Okay.....Oh my G-d, I LOVE Apanguluk Charlie Kairaiuak!  And Elsie Pistolhead, too -- well, that's just gravy.   But seriously, John McGinley is like Sean Bean -- he's in every freakin' movie ever made. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 17, 2007, 07:23:20 PM
I was thinking McGuinley, Ermey, but especially Thornton, who is a very smart guy who must've thought--now this is hilarious, what pearls next, Seagal?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 17, 2007, 07:46:21 PM
Okay, sorta yeah on BBT, but in that case I apply the Michael Caine rule (which Michael Caine applied here, too, by the way) and figure it's kind of like BBT's appearing in Armageddon -- it's not brain surgery or even art, but it pays some bills.  Or maybe BBT always wanted to see Alaska or something.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 17, 2007, 08:30:28 PM
That was most definitely paying bills, and Michael Caine is the bomb, he signs on the line which is dotted, never saw a dollar he didn't eat right away.  The fact that he underestimated his own talent should be somebody else's business.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 18, 2007, 09:24:00 PM
Did I tell you guys that I bought a "Taxi Driver" coat, not the cabbie one but the assassin one, from one of the more reputable outlet stores.  When I slip it on it makes me want to get a mohawk, but economic realities and the sigboth have conspired against that move.  Have not been holding my wrists over a gas stove yet, or kicked over any tv sets.  Not taking advice from untrustworthy people.  Trying to eat less fried food and sticking to domestic beer.  Buying canned goods and shorting Starbucks, hunkered down for the quickening.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 19, 2007, 02:03:16 AM
Mantra:  "The world doesn't have to rock because you do all the time (repeat))...


Title: Private Parts
Post by: Dzimas on May 19, 2007, 10:50:12 AM
They were showing Private Parts on Lithuanian television the other night, and I have to say it was entertaining if nothing else. I got a kick out of Paul Giamatti as Kenny "Pig Vomit" Rushton.  Howard has his moments, that's for sure, but two hours is about all I can take of him.  Too self-serving for my taste, but he seemed to wake up radio back in the 90s.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 21, 2007, 10:34:43 PM
For an untrained actor Howard did a good job of playing himself and was youthful enough to play the young Howard scenes, even.  Giamatti was very good.  The director, the chick from "Hill St. Blues" has done a good job turning in very professional films with a good comic tone, especially "The Brady Bunch" ones.  I think she must have a good sense of what her purpose is in creating entertainment, anyway, nice career for that gal whose name escapes me.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 22, 2007, 01:00:22 AM
Betty Thomas


Title: Re: Private Parts
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 22, 2007, 08:43:10 AM
Too self-serving for my taste...

That's what I remember about "Private Parts".  The thesis (or theme or whatever) seemed to be "Hey, I'm just a nice guy," etc. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 22, 2007, 08:48:03 AM
I think it was ironic that it was a tribute to what his wife has to put up with and she divorced him a couple years later


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 22, 2007, 08:48:48 AM
I really liked the movie, myself.  I thought it was quite hysterical but I do agree that it was certainly self-serving.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 22, 2007, 08:59:40 AM
I liked "28 Weeks Later", notwithstanding the above-described flaw re: the monster's (i.e., the virus' and thus the collective infected's) motivation.  Robert Carlyle gives a great performance, and I thought Jeremy Renner was very good also, albeit in a part that didn't call for as much acting or whatever as did Carlyle's.  

Renner played "Dahmer" in the made-for-TV movie and has had a few small parts here and there.  He's in the upcoming "Assassination of Jesse James" movie, which I was already looking forward to seeing for Sam Rockwell and Casey Affleck.

There is a shot in the "28WL" trailer that isn't in the movie, and I was disappointed because it's a great shot.  In the trailer there are, of course, a lot of fast cuts and whooshes and screams and pounding "house-music" or whatever and such, and toward the end we get a shot of one of the kids (the ones that Renner and some army colonel/scientist lady have to protect from the raging infected) looking up out the rear windshield of a car, and we cut to Renner through the rear windshield, looking up past the front of the car, pushing the car to facilitate a pop-start (or pop-the-clutch start, or whatever you call it), then Renner looks down at the camera, i.e., down through the rear windshield at the kids inside the car looking up at him, and he smiles and winks.  

It's a nice little comic-relief moment, in that you've got all this aargh/eeek/rage with fast cuts and pounding music and pandemonium, etc., but despite all of that, don't worry, these kids are going to make it out of here okay, and if you don't believe me, then just take a look at Renner, he's out there pushing the car and he just winked at us, etc.  It surely would have worked in the movie - the sequence with Renner pushing the car to pop-start it was in the movie, so the wink would have fit right in.

But that's a minor gripe - not even a gripe, really, but just something I noticed.  In any event, high marks for "28WL."  Hopefully when they make "28ML", someone will do something about the whole motivation problem.

(For those too lazy to look back a few pages, the "motivation problem" is the whole issue of, "If it's a 'RAGE' virus, then why don't the infected ever 'rage' on one another?"   And I don't mean "too lazy" in a judgmental way or whatever... Why I myself am quite possibly the laziest man in Los Angeles county, which would place me high in the runnin' for laziest worldwide, etc.)



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 22, 2007, 11:05:51 AM
28WL got praise over at the 3Eye board, too.  I guess if you don't pick at the science angle, it's a pretty good story driver.  Maybe I'll WFV.  Did you catch "Next"?  It's supposed to be yet another based on a Phil Dick story, but it doesn't sound all the science fictionish.

(Liquid -- you can cancel the "fartonbink" moniker, if you have time or inclination.  I don't imagine you could transfer my meager number of posts over to this one?  I guess I could be the perennial newbie...)



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 22, 2007, 11:10:26 AM
Liquid -- Oh, I see how to cancel "farton" myself.  Done.  Boards smell better already, don't they?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 22, 2007, 01:30:07 PM
Though it puts your quest for "Jr. Membership" back to the starting gate, almost like repeating a grade in high school.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 22, 2007, 01:31:58 PM
bart -

You'll never reach hero member at this rate.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 22, 2007, 08:07:11 PM
Sure, it's easy to piss down on the proletariat from such lofty heights.  There will be heroes when the tides are turned and when those with soft hands will suffer under the black boot during the Revolution.  But until then Bart, you're about 45 posts away from getting the rookie treatment.  Save that anger, let it smolder within your heart until the day comes when that ember shall light the molotov cocktail that will enflame the honored classes in a great pyre of their own design.  Or pick your battles and let shit bounce off of you until you hit Jr. Member.  To my knowledge you aren't anti-personal trainer and don't make extemporaneous jokes about juicing and roid-rage, a subject that can only be treated with the somber tone that we ordinarily reserve for other subjects that aren't to be giggled about.  Like homosexuality in mainstream cowboy films or the giggling jackass and hate-fueled dance of misogyny of a member of the PGA tour such as Fred Funk, who still has not apologized for seeing women's acheivement in sport through a crude transvestic pantomime seared forever on the memories of young women who would strive for honor and glory in sport.  The battles are many, and complex, but whatever gets you to jr. member, I hope the love of the journey will be commensurate with the accolades accorded the title, which, however few, disassociate you from other newbies, who are after all, a few scant posts away from the scumbag lurker and dissolute voyeur. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 23, 2007, 12:01:46 AM
Too much with the blush,
and she be scrait off the bus,
water to grow a good tangerine,
but disposable figurine.

Puppy, kitten, pussy, listen,
to the wind in hollow sound,
of a cheap deal going
down...

All swallowed without
the swallow sound
new girl with the parts going down.


Title: No Country for Old Men
Post by: Dzimas on May 23, 2007, 02:17:59 AM
I see the new Coen Bros. movie, No Country for Old Men, is getting rave reviews.  Unfortunately, it isn't scheduled for release until November.  I guess one has to go to Cannes to get a sneak peak.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 23, 2007, 09:32:18 AM
I think that, in adapting NCFOM into a movie, they're scratching the itch they had hoped to scratch with James Dickey's To The White Sea back in 1997.  That is to say, if there was ever a book that seemed impossible to make into a movie, it would be TTWS.  After reading NCFOM, it seemed to me that if there was ever another book that would be impossible to make into a movie, it would be NCFOM. 

As we all know, the TTWS project fell through - I read somewhere that they said it would take $80MM to make the movie and they could only get $40MM, but who knows?  Anyways, I think the Coen Bros just, for whatever reason, had some hankering to take a dark and violent novel, one with no apparent cinematic potential, and written by a contemporary American author, and adapt it into a movie. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:43:24 AM
I have an umbrella


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:44:03 AM
to open when the elite


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:44:29 AM
choose to relieve itself


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:44:56 AM
upon the proletariat


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:45:58 AM
Though some may court the golden rain


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:46:34 AM
And some say it's good for the complexion


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:47:10 AM
I maintain dignity and the near-infinite


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 10:47:45 AM
SPF of the humble bumbershoot.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 23, 2007, 11:22:13 AM
Can you do that 37 more times, newbie?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: yankguy on May 23, 2007, 01:13:40 PM
Greatest movie scene ever?  For everyone's pleasure:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5T3e_smFgk


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 01:41:20 PM
When it Raines, it pours.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 01:43:26 PM
correction:  When it Rains, it pours.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 01:44:01 PM
This is what you get for rubbing in the "newbie" thing.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 23, 2007, 01:45:24 PM
Capt. Renault is one of my favorite characters. 

Renault is one of my favorite cars.

I like a Renault, but I Constantinople.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 23, 2007, 01:51:55 PM
I have the "Oh Danny Boy" scene from the Coen bros. being way up there.

I don't ordinarily think of "great scenes," which I suppose often happen in movies that aren't great as well.

Another example of a great scene (in a great movie) is the "put the stopper in the bottle" scene from "One False Move."  The look on Dale's face is absolutely heartbreaking, and the reason I love Bill Paxton to this day and will forgive him anything.

Now he got me thinkin' on scenes--the "I'm smart.  I can do things..."--scene in "Boogie Nights" was the moment that Mark Wahlberg arrived, again communicating that heartbreaking sadness, and why he is beyond criticism for me no matter whatever else he does, too.

I don't know, you can be catty about individual acting performances but I take the approach of "Well, he did ____..." so you know, he doesn't really have to do anything else in my opinion.  To be great in a great film even if you never repeat that act or get that caliber of part again is kind of a lifetime pass.  



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 23, 2007, 02:17:09 PM
yank -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVFNFHLMNBk&mode=related&search=

Or perhaps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueuauKKjPZI

I've always been fond of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LWMKl6vHjc&mode=related&search=

And...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQygwUBwnn4&mode=related&search=

And...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhlhE32SoXs&mode=related&search=


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 23, 2007, 02:17:17 PM
I have the "Oh Danny Boy" scene from the Coen bros. being way up there.


Oh, yes indeed.  That and the scene with Lazare's thugs working Tom over:

TOM
Tell Lazare there's no hard feelings...

LAZARE'S THUG
Christ, Tom... he knows that.


You can imagine my surprise and delight when, while watching "Let's Go To Prison", the guy who plays the judge who sends Dax Shepard to jail is none other than the guy who says "Christ, Tom... he knows that" in "Miller's Crossing".  It took me a minute to place him, because that was 16 years ago and he's older now, but still, I was very happy to see him.






Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on May 23, 2007, 02:24:44 PM
ain't the greatest. maybe ain't even great. but i like it. says a lot to me. i'd say more but best i just hush.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UluCCD6e8E0


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 23, 2007, 02:27:17 PM
Another example of a great scene (in a great movie) is the "put the stopper in the bottle" scene from "One False Move."  The look on Dale's face is absolutely heartbreaking, and the reason I love Bill Paxton to this day and will forgive him anything.

Word, and I'd also submit from "OFM" (my 11th favorite movie of all time) the scene in the kitchen with Metzley and Dale's wife, ending with "Dale dunnt know any better, hay watches tay vay.  Ah rayd non-fickshin..."   I remember that got a big laugh in the art house where I saw it for the first time, back in 1992 or whatever, and the reason for the size of the laugh was the gravity of the situation and the wife's justifiable ambush of the LA detective.

As to the "stopper in the bottle" scene, I also liked how it starts with McFeeley (the black LA detective who had genuinely laughed off Dale's previous use of the "n" word, which got him an under-the-table kick on the shin from his wife) saying to Dud Cole (Metzler), "I like old Dale," and meaning it, and Cole replying, "Oh yeah?" and then going into, "You know what he said to me this morning?" and going into the whole thing about Dale wanting to join up the LAPD, which led to their sharing a laugh at Dale's expense, not knowing he was standing 10 feet away behind the lattice screen.

There's another nice detail, as we cut to Dale's POV, looking at Dud and McFeeley through the lattice as they chuckle at the notion of Dale joining up the LAPD, there's an out-of-focus Polaroid stuck to the lattice with a thumb-tack.  It's a picture of some kid with a mullet, wearing a tank top, etc., i.e., the prototype redneck, etc.  Not only does Dale have to sit there and listen to the LA detectives laugh about him, but oh by the way, you're a dumb redneck, etc.  

And you're right, Paxton's face in that scene is really unforgettable.  I always like it when the real guts of the movie is that a character has to face up to something he's done or something he is or whatever - Stephen Rea in "The Crying Game" comes to mind - like the "arc" or whatever isn't just the character getting from point A to point B, but actually facing up to what he did before point A.   Anyways, "OFM" certainly fits that description.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 23, 2007, 02:32:34 PM

Or perhaps...


My favorite "Dr. Strangelove" scenes are the ones with George C. Scott, obviously, but also the ones with Sterling Hayden and Peter Sellers as Mandrake.  And it's not just because of the "precious bodily fluids" speech, which is great, but rather the whole idea that Mandrake is this normal nice guy who knows he's the only one who knows what General Ripper is doing and how insane he is, and that he's already a fish out of water as an Englishman in America only makes it funnier as he tries to figure out how to stop it, treating Mandrake with kid gloves as he tries to get the code to call back the planes.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 23, 2007, 02:37:16 PM
ain't the greatest. maybe ain't even great. but i like it. says a lot to me. i'd say more but best i just hush.

I liked "Seven". 

And while he toned down the "Fincher" and it was admittedly kind of boring and way too long, for some reason I really liked "Zodiac" a lot.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 23, 2007, 05:50:24 PM
Good ones, whisqe, for some reason even though I'm a professed fan of noir, I've never seen "The Third Man," and you remind me that I need to see "Sunset Blvd." again...

Oil, how was LGTP, in terms of (a) was it funny, and does it seem like Bob O. can make more movies from a competency level.  It's in my ququeuequ at Netflix, so I guess I'll see it after I get around to watching "Smoking Aces" and "Kill Me Again," which I haven't seen in a very long time.

The look on Paxton face especially when he cheerfully tries to put on a smile "Ayyyy boys..." even though he is painfully and obviously hurt not only rings true to the character and to people, but is just painful to watch, especially since, in addition to the photo (I had forgotten about that), they become aware of his presence because he is essentially stealing a Snicker's bar.  I think the black detective says "Dale, we didn't mean..."  and he interrupts cheerfully makes his departure.  It's a well-constructed scene that's about not only Dale's lack of sophistication and lack of appreciation of the threat, but also a lesson to the LA cops on how small towns work (there aren't many places to be), and all the "pee off the porch" goodwill that Dale had shown them is squandered, and they feel awful too, but it's a necessary moment that leads Dale to "get wise," or wiser, and we get to the payoff scene of "You pull the trigger..." that probably Dale wouldn't have gotten to without the way the threat grows.  Although the first scene is as violent and depressing as can be imagined, the flatness of it, really basic and grim, it does create the dramatic irony (I think) that makes us worried about Dale from the beginning.  I wish BBT and Epperson would write another crime thriller for me.  It's such a well-constructed screenplay that you just wonder and wait for somebody to do that kind of thing again. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 23, 2007, 08:06:14 PM
Hey, there.  I'm on semi-not really-vacation, doing my part to set back North-South relations oh, 150 years or so.  And I'm on dial-up, so I can't check out any of the video links or make links either.  Well, I could, but I'd be here forever, and I have to get back to riling up these people.  So if I've duplicated anything, my apologies. 

I love the Marseilles clip, which I'm guessing was the first submission -- I've seen that probably a hundred times, and still get goosebumps. 

Also....

Stalag 17, where they throw Mr. Phelps out in the yard at the end and we hear what happens to him while watching the mixture of disgust, satisfaction, hate, etc. on the faces of the prisoners. Or just about any scene from that flick, like the shadow of the light cord on the wall when Holden figures things out -- that movie's one of my all-time favorites. 

Notorious, the look on (sigh) Claude Rains' face when Cary Grant says "No, you can't ride along" -- and then the view of the long walk back to the mansion with evil mama and the henchmen all illuminated in the open doorway. And the look on Claude Rains' face.  And then the view of the long walk back....well, you know what I mean. 

Jaws, the saltine scene.  Actually I have to thank oilcan and/or jbottle for turning me on to the amount of nuance in this scene -- I always figured he was just eating crackers. 

There's gotta be more, but that's it off the top of my head.

Hey, did you know Ambrose Bierce was shot in the head at the Battle of Kennesaw Mountain, yet survived to write all those freaky stories?  And one of our future presidents  -- Buchanan? -- sat out the battle with a severe case of poison ivy.  Well, at least he didn't have Daddy get him a cushy reserves job.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 23, 2007, 09:48:08 PM
If you and the husband are on Hilton Head Island, I will purchase you dinner, otherwise, enjoy the coast, or the South, and remember that we hate Federalism more than Democrats because many of us are tried and true.  I think you would enjoy Charleston, SC, if you were visiting the Cack (South Cackalackey vs. North Cack), many nice restaurants and Sullivan's Island is a great beach.

If you have about 800K laying around, great time to purchase a getaway home:  Jbottle wishing he did have it. 

Congrats to vacationing and remember that no vacation is complete without hats of some ethnic variety, even trucker, and Tequila.  Cheers.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 12:19:14 AM
You've gotta run away
you've gotta spin a web
you've gotta stay out late
you've gotta stay in bed

there's a disease goin round the hospital
green green leaves
falling from the trees

you've gotta run away
you've gotta spin a web
you've gotta stay out late
you've gotta stay in bed

(repeat)

Love the Lemonheads, unrelated to prior...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 24, 2007, 07:33:10 AM
grace -

Buchanan was president before the civil war.  Perhaps McKinley or Garfield.

jb -

Quote
I've never seen "The Third Man,"
Shit!  Too late for a spoiler alert?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 24, 2007, 07:43:01 AM
Probably Benjamin Harrison.  McKinley and Hays served only in the East - in the same unit, by the way.  Garfield served in the west, but had left the army to serve in congress after Chickamagua (by the way, my favorite Bierce story).  Arthur was a quatermaster during the war, and Cleveland bought a substitute after he was drafted, the pussy.  Everyone else was too young to have served.  Harrison's unit was part of Sherman's army, so he fits.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 24, 2007, 08:26:07 AM

Oil, how was LGTP, in terms of (a) was it funny, and does it seem like Bob O. can make more movies from a competency level. 

It wasn't awful, but yeah, not so great either.  I believe in Bob O. and am rooting for him, but he didn't exactly ring the bell or whatever with "LGTP".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 24, 2007, 08:38:24 AM
I think the black detective says "Dale, we didn't mean..."  and he interrupts cheerfully makes his departure. 

Word, and perfect that Dud Cole, i.e., the white detective, i.e., the one with whom Dale really tries to connect, etc., just looks down at his lap when Dale says, "Dud, I didn't mean to put you on the spot out there...," and it's McFeely, i.e., the black detective who began the conversation with "I like old Dale" and had earlier genuinely laughed off Dale's use of the n-word, is the one who tries to apologize for laughing at Dale. 

It's a well-constructed scene that's about not only Dale's lack of sophistication and lack of appreciation of the threat... moment that leads Dale to "get wise," or wiser, and we get to the payoff scene of "You pull the trigger..." 

Double-word, and later in the back-yard beers (before "pee off the porch") scene in which the LA cops try to explain to Dale why he was wrong, earlier that day, in just sauntering up to Ray Malcolm's uncle's house without taking cover or whatever, Dale responds to Dud's "You can't assume anything about anyone in a case like this, because that's the guy that's gonna f*ck you," with "Shoot, I've been sheriff d'here for eight years... I've never even had to draw my gun..."

After he says that line, having made his point that he's confident in himself and his control of the situation, he takes a drink of his beer and as he's raising his bottle, you see in his face the confidence disapper, replaced with the realization that his "never even had to draw my gun" only proves the point they were trying to make, i.e., you need to be careful, you don't know what you're up against here, etc.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 24, 2007, 08:40:32 AM
I wish BBT and Epperson would write another crime thriller for me.  It's such a well-constructed screenplay that you just wonder and wait for somebody to do that kind of thing again. 

Triple-word!!  Siskel named "OFM" as his Best Movie of 1992, and if I ever meet BBT in a bar or whatever, he's going to be annoyed at me (even moreso than the readers/scrollers-by of these posts)bending his ear about "OFM".  First question - Carl Franklin had only acted in an directed the occasional TV show, so how did you know he was the director you wanted?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on May 24, 2007, 09:37:09 AM
The art of the deal. The deal of the artist. The new old deal of artistic dealings. Dealing in art. Artfully dealt...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/cantor5.html

The Aviator is fully in accord with Mises’s conception of the entrepreneur. By acknowledging that there may be an element of madness in entrepreneurial genius, it emphasizes the individuality of the great businessman, the uniqueness of his vision, the fact that he simply does not see the world the way ordinary people do.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 24, 2007, 10:46:53 AM
Workin' off the newness.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 01:12:12 PM
Whisqe:  No need, I didn't even play the y-t clip for that reason.

Oil:  I don't know if this is true, but the tone of the script probably lends itself to a black director because it's suffused with issues of race just as all of American life is, in subtle and less-subtle means.  I think it was one of those perfect storms, too, where you had everybody hungry to do something good.  The direction could've easily focused more on action, but you get the feeling that it was shot like it was written more or less, with character, especially the arc of Dale, getting all the attention. 

I'd like to know how Franklin was chosen as well, but I like the idea of Thornton and Franklin being guys that had kicked around LA for a while and were friendly beforehand, both with something to prove.  Smart of Thornton to write himself a good part but not the "starring" part out of a realization of what part he could play best, and for realizing that insisting to play a part not central to the selling of the film (bring in Bill Paxton) was the right sized gamble.  You also wonder who else may have considered or been considered for the part, Paxton and Thornton are both Southerners and contemporaries like Franklin (if I recall his age correctly), but again you would like to think that Thornton told him that he was the only person who could play Dale, because, even if it's not really true, it sure seems that way.  Paxton must be an intelligent guy who made his start playing a lot of ding-dongs, and it was the right time for him to demonstrate his range as an actor by playing such a vulnerable and likable character as Dale, a little slow on the draw, as they say, but more resourceful and certainly more sensitive and intelligent than the good 'ol boy that he plays as Sheriff.  It's really like the shattering of an idyllic Mayberry sort of town, it's like the moment Dale has to admit to himself that the world can be a dangerous place, he knows this but has to get fully disillusioned through the course of the film, and that's a tough thing.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 01:25:52 PM
Oh, and movies of the caliber of "The Third Man" or even "The Planet of the Apes" should be open season, anything classic or wildly popular, that is.

I had already seen "The Crying Game" when on the NYTFF threw out a spoiler--

SPOILER FOR THE CRYING GAME

;;

;;

"The chick has a dick..."

Not mine, but I thought that was pretty funny.

And Paxton and Thornton were both born in 1955 in Fort Worth and Hot Springs.

Franklin is a little older born in '49, but as a working actor he probably knew Thornton somehow prior.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 01:36:09 PM
"After he says that line, having made his point that he's confident in himself and his control of the situation, he takes a drink of his beer and as he's raising his bottle, you see in his face the confidence disapper, replaced with the realization that his "never even had to draw my gun" only proves the point they were trying to make, i.e., you need to be careful, you don't know what you're up against here, etc."

Another great scene/look, watching his confidence disappear is just something that Paxton does so well and so painfully, I think it's set up where our movie sense of "well, maybe he is up to the task" even though we know what he doesn't know is kind of jerked around there as well, when we see his weak moments, your fear for and love of the character deepens, I don't know how he knows how to make that face, but it devastating, but he was "in the zone" for that whole movie.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 02:20:48 PM
Sorry for the multiplicity of posts, but I had to ring in on POTC and "Bug"

Billy Friedkin, Ashley Judd, horror, this "near June"--"Bug" will be big.  Creeping into ____ theaters, the box-office raid is on, I'm going to say $28.42M as horror freaks and soccer mom Judd fans go for the Adult Alternative to POTC, crunching it to the tune of $127M over the long weekend.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 24, 2007, 07:34:31 PM
jbottle -- Thanks for the invite, you are too kind.  But if we're ever in your neighborhood, we insist on buying, including the bar tab.  We're in the Atlanta area, with (my) family stuff.  Land of smoke blowing in from the fires in southern GA, and waaay too much heat for May (mid-80s). 

whiskey -- Deep down I knew it was B. Harrison. Why I typed Buchanan, I do not know.  Probably too much sun and too much information thrown my way all at once.  Today we did Lookout Mountain and Chickamauga, or half of it anyway.  Had to book to get home, don't know if we'll get back this trip -- probably not. But I did pick up a book of Bierce's writings from the Civil War.

Haven't been able to catch too many movies, except Mr. Smith/Washington and Red River on the TV. I've been hearing stuff about Bug, like it's going to reestablish Ms. Judd's career, etc. but I don't know -- even if it's by Friedkin, it's still a bug story.  And not the kind with cute Dave Foley and Julia Louis-Dreyfuss.  Then again, it's the season for that kind of flick, and I'm always wrong on this stuff, so I'll probably take all that back.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 08:03:58 PM
(mid-80s)

Ah that's nothing, try anywhere between Augusta, GA (as the song goes, "no place to be") and Columbia, SC, in late July, males wearing non-poplin suits often find themselves soaked before reaching the car or office.

(mid-80s)

Also the average speed limit on I-75 and I-85 or whatever, so be careful.  I had a cousin used to live in Sandy Springs before the ATL got so sprawled, and other than the Georgia Dome in the unusual event that the Clemson Tigers get to play there in the Peach Bowl, I have very little interest in that "big" city and much prefer NYC just to start the list.....I like it rural and the Coca-Cola commercial "man in full" disconnectedness of the ATL always reminds me of the songs people write about hating Los Angeles, and sorry to get off on a tangent, how all your people are well, that's the thing.

I remember sitting at the dollar bar in Buckhead in the mid-'90's and this guy appeared to be non-ironically wearing a CK (Calvin Klein) baseball cap, and that town is about as "metrosexual" as it gets, but I was like "Really?"  That's your hat?  Really?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 24, 2007, 08:06:19 PM
That's "hope" now "how,"

"How ya' doin?  Good and you?"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 12:14:34 AM
I'll go way under on "Bug" - say, $5.12MM. 

I might check it out, if only for the tall bug-eyed guy in it.  I think he's a Steppenwolf (or whatever that Chicago theater is) stage guy.  He was in "Let's Go To Prison" - not many minutes on screen but he made the most of it, very funny as the leader of the white-power faction of inmates.



Title: NCFOM
Post by: Dzimas on May 25, 2007, 05:45:52 AM
Oil, In regard to NCFOM, I would have to say that the lure was a chance for the Coen Bros. to do Peckinpah.  Sounds like the movie will have a lot of bag for its buck.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 25, 2007, 05:47:00 AM
I'll say 160 on POC3, especially with many theatres showing the film 24 hours running.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 09:50:12 AM
I'll say 160 on POC3, especially with many theatres showing the film 24 hours running.

That's true, but at "POTC3"'s running time, 24 hours is only enough time for 2.5 screenings, maybe 3 if you don't run any previews.   I'll go $94MM.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 25, 2007, 10:18:29 AM
I guess it would be unconscionably cute for Harrie to see "Georgia Rule" while in Georgia.

Do I imagine this, or do writers seem to insist on setting incest plots in the South?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 10:36:59 AM
Do I imagine this, or do writers seem to insist on setting incest plots in the South?

I can only think of two incest movies that I've seen, "Spanking the Monkey", which I think was set in NY, and "The Grifters" which I think was set in California.

I know there are surely hundreds of incest movies out there that I haven't seen (or that I have seen and don't remember right now), many of which may be set in the South, for all I know.  "Spanking the Monkey" and "The Grifters" are just the only two that I've seen that come to mind right now.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 25, 2007, 10:44:47 AM
"Chinatown" would be another obvious example.  But let's forget it, Oil, it's Chinatown.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 11:15:41 AM
Is that the 1980's one with Kurt Russell and those guys with all the crazy hats?  Rule of 2's with "Buckaroo Banzai", maybe?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 25, 2007, 12:21:33 PM
Sounds like a case of the Chinatown Syndrome to me.  Take two RNA pills and call me in the morning.  Though I'm more likely to answer to "Bart!"

Big Trouble ILC exceeds B. Banzai in some ineffable way, and shouldn't be Rulotwo'd with it.

BTW, I am one of the few people who also liked the sequel to Chinatown, The Two Jakes.  I thought Keitel ruled in TTJ, and was willing to forgive Nicholson for the "doggy style" scene.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 12:46:41 PM

BTW, I am one of the few people who also liked the sequel to Chinatown, The Two Jakes. 

"TTJ" is one of the weirder entries in the annals of spoonerism-titles.  Not as funny as that one by Darles Chickens, but still. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 25, 2007, 12:53:11 PM
That is a weird spoonerism. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 25, 2007, 12:54:32 PM
Films like Dumb and Dumber seem to be on safer ground, in that respect.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 01:24:38 PM
My nominee for Greatest Human Spoonerism of all time would be Raymond Floyd - Flamin'
Roid.

As to Greatest Movie Spoonerism, I'd have to give it some thought.  Yeah, I know, they made "A Sale of Two Ti**ies" into a movie, but I'd be in favor of considering Greatest Novel Spoonerism as its own category, and thus I'd be in favor of disqualifying it for consideration in the Greatest Movie Spoonerism category.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 25, 2007, 02:58:26 PM
In "Miller's Crossing," Bernie Birnbaum says that his sister tried to show him a thing or two about the feminine wiles, i.e., flip him by having sex with him to get him on the heterosexual path, but he is untrustworthy so I don't know if that would qualify as "incest" or not, but it was an "incest joke" not set in the South.

Good observation on Peckinpah Coen.--looking forward to the slo-motion shootouts.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 03:52:06 PM
Good observation on Peckinpah Coen.--looking forward to the slo-motion shootouts.

Indeed it was a good observation by Dzimas.  I was in too much of a hurry to make a joke re: "POTC3" running time to acknowledge the Peckinpah-Coens thing, shame on me, etc. 

As I recall from reading the book, there's only one big shoot-out scene that actually takes place in the story.  There is another big shoot-out that starts the plot in motion, but that one already happened and the main character stumbles across the scene (dead bodies, shot-up SUV's, one of them with a bunch of heroin and piles of cash in the back, etc.) out in the desert long after (days, maybe?) the shoot-out took place. 

But still, the Peckinpah observation is a good one, i.e., it would not surprise me if, while watching "NCFOM", it occured to me that it's got a Peckinpah feel.  Already I'm thinking of "Bring Me The Head...," what with Warren Oates alone on the run from cold-blooded killers of varying stripes, etc.   In "NCFOM", Moss's (Moss'?) journey is similar, except, you know, for the whole head in the bag thing.

I remain skeptical or whatever of Josh Brolin's ability to play Moss, but I'm hoping he proves me 100% wrong.  I read in one of the reader-submitted reviews on IMDB that Woody Harrelson is great as Wells, (the more "civilized" of the professionals sent to hunt Moss down) which is weird because in the book he doesn't have much page time (or whatever the book equivalent is of screen-time), but I remember thinking he was an interesting character, especially in light of his counterpart, Chigurgh. 

Oscar time for Bardem?  Could be... Chigurgh is a psycho, or a sociopath or whatever, and he's philosophical and complex and so forth, so he might just catch the Academy voters' eye, who knows?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 25, 2007, 03:53:45 PM
In "Miller's Crossing," Bernie Birnbaum says that his sister tried to show him a thing or two about the feminine wiles...

She's a sick twist, alright.


Title: Peckinpah-Coens
Post by: Dzimas on May 26, 2007, 05:45:08 AM
Peckinpah wasn't all shootouts you know.  Ballad of Cable Hogue remains one of my favorites.  But, I see NCFOM having more of a Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid quality to it.  For me the movie represented an end to that era, which it seems the Coens might be evoking in NCFOM. Just guessing.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 26, 2007, 05:47:10 AM
I probably need to adjust my numbers for POC3.  I didn't take into account the Shrek factor.  Seems the two will have a hot battle this weekend, bringing down numbers for both.  My adjusted guess is 80 mil each.


Title: NCFOM
Post by: Dzimas on May 26, 2007, 05:51:40 AM
Casting Josh Brolin was a bit of a surprise to me as well, but I guess the Coens saw something in him that I haven't seen.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 26, 2007, 12:03:44 PM
Classiest spoonerism title:  Strike Up the Band (a 1940 Busby Berkeley film)

Bike Up the Strand  -- sounds like something Merchant Ivory would do.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 26, 2007, 12:24:55 PM
this one works phonetically:

Demon Seed




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 26, 2007, 12:31:07 PM
This may seem like a shameless quest for Junior Member status, but the phonetic spoonerism is calling to me with a siren song that I cannot resist.....

Bad Company (Cad Bump a Knee)

Won the Otter Front

You Tears Before the Mast

Twenty Date A's





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 26, 2007, 12:33:06 PM
Night of the Diving Lead



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 26, 2007, 08:29:12 PM
Our little boy is all grows up.  That's right honey, he's all grows up, he's all grows up, he's grows up he's grows up he's grows up, ha-ha-haaanannnnnhhhhh..."

Congratulations for being a Jr. Member, even if some of your posts were totally lame and only in it for that numbers, nah, just joshin', welcome aboard, I think you missed a spot over there swab, nah, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 27, 2007, 01:33:52 AM
There should be an award or something for the person who achieved jr. memberhood the fastest.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 27, 2007, 01:36:02 AM
I see POC3 raked in 43 mil on day one, plus 14 mil from the previous day, so it is gathering a lot of wind in its sails for a 120 mil-plus weekend.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on May 27, 2007, 03:06:16 PM
It's not  about achieving Junior Member faster than anyone else (though I take some pride at the journey from junior "fart" to junior "bart" in only four days), it's about achieving Senior Member status and then lingering there for years, on a strange existential plateau, where one posts only once a month and then only in cryptic and oracular pronouncements that generate entire blogospheres which future generations will study and understand as a great and irretrievable golden age, a time of laughter and loving, beer and skittles, sturm und drang, and lots of free supermarket samples.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 28, 2007, 12:00:50 AM
Sounds totally halcyon!


Title: Cannes
Post by: Dzimas on May 28, 2007, 12:09:17 AM
Interesting to read that a Romanian film, 4 months, 3 weeks, and 2 days, is considered the front runner for the Palme d'Or,

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=cannes2007&jump=review&reviewid=VE1117933650


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 29, 2007, 01:16:43 PM
Hey, oil -- even going way under with Bug, you still went over.  It did $3.3 or $4.2 depending on how you count it.  Maybe it was a counterprogramming type of move, releasing an R movie as an alternative to POTC/Shrek3/Spidey3, but it doesn't appear to have worked out.  Which is too bad, because I like Friedkin alot.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 29, 2007, 02:43:42 PM
It wasn't helped by the thing in the Personality Page of last week's PARADE Magazine.  They seemed to be a little ticked off at her:

Q. Why do so many good actresses—including Helen Mirren, Jane Seymour and Ashley Judd—do nude scenes?
—G.A., Richardson, Tex.

A. For the paycheck or because they enjoy showing off their bodies. Seymour, 56, says she had fun doing her hilarious topless scene in Wedding Crashers. On the other hand, we predict that Judd, 39, will regret her explicit scenes as a bisexual, coke-addicted abuse victim in Bug, a distasteful new film.


Harsh!!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: liquidsilver on May 29, 2007, 02:51:01 PM
Not enough good actresses do nude scenes....


Title: Parade
Post by: Dzimas on May 29, 2007, 03:02:24 PM
Parade magazine still exists.  What a joke!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 29, 2007, 03:27:27 PM
Not enough good actresses do nude scenes....

And yet it can be most surprising who will.  Kathy Bates recently did...need some assistance here... the movie will come to mind...

Was a surprise to see her, middleaged, overweight, the whole nine...!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 29, 2007, 03:28:05 PM
I think that was "About Schmidt".  Not that I'm keeping track or anything.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 29, 2007, 03:31:49 PM
Yes, oil, I just googled...and it wasn't her first either apparently.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 29, 2007, 05:36:00 PM
I respect actresses who do tasteful nude scenes like when Halle Berry's character was reading a book, and up to that point we didn't know she could read, and then she drops the book and got paid like $500K per can, which seems like a lot, but when you are in the middle of making a movie like "Swordfish," it's kind of like "hey man, nice shot," like when you have Kevin Pollack, you might as well offer him an extra 10K to do his Captain Kirk/Shatner, I mean, get it in there, dammit.

I thought that the nude scenes that Betsy Russell did in "Private School" were very tasteful, one was even a near-art scene where she is riding a horse nude, which separates it from gratuitious nude scenes such as can be found in "Hollywood Hot Tubs" or "Ski School," the objectification of the female form is always better when you throw in some art, because then, at least you know you are watching art instead of porn.

I think it's a character choice, the way Nick Nolte would go up to the director during all of his films of the '80's and say:  "I think my character drinks..." to let the director understand that he was a method actor and when he showed up smelling like Scotch that it was an artistic choice.  I view the exposure of female body parts the same way.  When Sharon Stone uncrossed her legs in "Basic Instinct," it made sense that her character, intellegent and seductive temptress that she was, would do that in a police station, because she figured if they weren't going to arrest her for smoking she may as well flash her cooch to see if she could get away with it.  Again, a good example of an artistic choice where character trumps any allegation of gratuitous exploitation of the female form. 

It's a fine like, like Denise Richards showing her rack in "Wild Things," but up until that point we didn't know how much of a wild thing she was, so I consider that an art scene as well.  Kevin Bacon proved he was a good sport later on by showing his penis, because it was a shower scene where naturally he would be washing his penis along with his arm pits, hair, feet, etc., i.e., it flowed naturally out of the character and plot that we should see his cock there.

But, yeah, it's a matter that will be on the forefront of intellectual debates on the nature of art, etc., and I always arrive at the conclusion that most nudity is artistic, but think that the Michael Douglas clause which permits him but does not require him to show his but when dropping the towel and then moving off screen to put on his underwear was a little extreme.  I understand that he wanted that freedom, I guess if you are playing a character that drops his towel and then walks into a closet right afterward, it's art, so no prob.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 29, 2007, 07:53:16 PM
It's (nearly) always unexpected when a male is shot nude front and center...
I recall  Bruce Willis appearing in more than one movie bobbing/bopping about.  More than just a bit of a manly man...
Somehow I doubt Jude Law would do the same :o










Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 29, 2007, 07:57:43 PM
Which reminds me...the "Eyes Wide Shut" attempt.  Wasn't there quite a bit more of Nicole than TopGun Tom?
Although if I recall at all it was fairly modest even for her.
Now Charlotte Rampling is an actress (with chops) who even as an older actor seems to fearlessly embrace just about any role, clothed or not, as long as it has artistic merit.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 29, 2007, 08:56:33 PM
Though the "Swimming Pool" crotch shot was a little more than I had bargained for.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 29, 2007, 10:31:36 PM
And sort of on the same note, I like Harvey Keitel's work a lot; yet, I often find myself thinking "Okay, Harvey, put some pants on...."

We don't get PARADE, we get the USA Weekend copycat publication in our Sunday papers.


Title: Movies and Nudity
Post by: Dzimas on May 30, 2007, 07:34:12 AM
I think jbottle sums it up pretty well, getting naked is usually a pretentious exercise in showing how cool you are.  For awhile there it didn't take much to get an actor or actress to shuck his or her clothes.  I'm reminded of the comment Paul Newman made about The Player, you saw the girl you didn't necessarily want to see (Cynthia Stevenson) but not the one you really wanted to see (Greta Scacchi), but then you can always watch The Coca-Cola Kid, which I believe was Scacchi's first outing.


Title: The Piano
Post by: Dzimas on May 30, 2007, 07:36:30 AM
I think that was "About Schmidt".  Not that I'm keeping track or anything.

I saw more of Holly Hunter and Harvey Keitel than I wanted to see in The Piano, although you can't consider them overweight.


Title: Re: Movies and Nudity
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 30, 2007, 09:37:08 AM
I think jbottle sums it up pretty well, getting naked is usually a pretentious exercise in showing how cool you are.  For awhile there it didn't take much to get an actor or actress to shuck his or her clothes.  I'm reminded of the comment Paul Newman made about The Player, you saw the girl you didn't necessarily want to see (Cynthia Stevenson) but not the one you really wanted to see (Greta Scacchi), but then you can always watch The Coca-Cola Kid, which I believe was Scacchi's first outing.
She'd had a couple movies before, including Defence of the Realm.  Although, you may have intended a different meaning of the word "outing."  I wore out the video tape I had of that movie.  Among other things.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 30, 2007, 10:08:16 AM
Whiskey, I take it you are a Greta Scacchi fan.  The Coca-Cola Kid was the first movie I saw her in, and I was pleasantly surprised.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on May 30, 2007, 10:12:57 AM
Whiskey, I take it you are a Greta Scacchi fan.  The Coca-Cola Kid was the first movie I saw her in, and I was pleasantly surprised.
"Pleasantly surprised" is an understatement for what I felt when I saw the Santa Claus scene.  That's impressive... er, acting....


Title: Greta Scacchi
Post by: Dzimas on May 30, 2007, 10:15:34 AM
Well, you know there is only so much you can say in polite society.  Speaking of which, I noticed she first appeared in Heat and Dust,

http://www.amazon.com/Heat-Dust-Autobiography-Princess-Collection/dp/B0000AQS6H/ref=sr_1_35/002-9042347-4177625?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1180534319&sr=1-35

and judging by the winsome image on the cover, she seems to have some sensual scenes in this movie as well.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 30, 2007, 10:51:22 AM
Greta is remarkable...
Her work in "White Mischief" definitely worth the time, although (still) not available in USA DVD format. Why not, I'd like to know.
She's also a major player with Tim Robbins in "The Player".
Julie Christie is also in "Heat and Dust" which brings to mind her nude scene with Donald Sutherland  (also nude) in "Don't Look Now", really long scene, well done and story appropriate.
 


Title: Greta
Post by: Dzimas on May 30, 2007, 11:01:42 AM
I wouldn't exactly say she is remarkable, but she is certainly attractive to watch.  I too am surprised White Mischief hasn't been made available in NTSC format.  As for The Player, I thought hers to be a minor but fetching role.  Cynthia Stephenson had a much stronger role, even if she didn't quite measure up in Paul Newman's mind.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on May 30, 2007, 11:10:38 AM
You guys beat me to it, I thought you must have seen her play Diana Broughton opposite everybody.  I had forgotten about Heat and Dust, which would, followed by Kenya, incline you to consider her British Colonial hot topics. Then this continued in a little something Russian relocated to Australia with Scacchi playing opposite Sam Neil; probably Chekov. I already knew you liked Jefferson in Paris.

But my all time favorite has got to be White Mischief, it is very haunting;and my idea is that it should always be shown on a doublebill with Remains of the Day just so we've covered everybody, class by class, or when you don't know that you are getting a rise in class that is not worth it, followed by how to get a rise in your class status when you are not worth it.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 30, 2007, 01:03:40 PM
White Mischief:  I recall there was an art scene with the older husband looking through a peephole at his younger bride taking a bath; it was basically the same concept as the shower scene from Porky's except in my opinion the mis en scene and pervascent cultural malaise and decadence made it art when Scacci showed her cans in that one.  "Porky's" on the other hand qualifies as art through the tender coming of age during the 1950's.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 30, 2007, 02:06:03 PM
bottle:
That scene is not her husband peeping but their "ever-so gentlemanly" host enjoying the bath moment...
Creepy.  I've always looked upon unusual wallpaper, wall treatments, mirrors, etc., etc. with suspicion ever since seeing that particular movie when enjoying a "stay"  away!

Off topic re:movies...
Wasn't Chuck Berry found to be doing something weird like that some time ago?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 30, 2007, 07:32:33 PM
So, sounds like this is for artistic movie discussion rather than popular/commercial films?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 30, 2007, 08:51:06 PM
Only art, pretty much, especially where there is nudity in art like in some of the French films that showed us that it didn't have to be smut just because you see cans, that there could be a legitimate emotional reason for those cans being onscreen, like Sylvia Kristel taking over homeschooling, etc., I think the last Century was a healthy evolution toward an acceptance that filmed female forms are mostly art, where there is context, even if only pizza delivery, and through the fits and starts such as the French New Wave and the AMERICAN TEEN COMEDIES OF THE 1980's, there has been evolution, devolution, hot tubs, psycho-slasher cheerleader fits and starts, but all in all, I think it points to a healthy rise toward the goal of art over gratuitious boob-shots and facile porn scenarios.  The fact is that teenage males deliver pizzas to frustrated females who have often already gotten the kids to bed and whose husband is out of town on another sales trip where we cut to booze and strippers:  That's reality.  I'm glad that as a society we are able in life to see it reflected in art, and I will never apologize for filmed nudity where there is a reasonable character arc, some say the French gave us a very large bronze terror target and then turned into complete assholes, I take a position quite contrary.  With the help of Italy and other Western Civilizations, we were able to slowly absorb the idea of art and nudity coexisting with few problems, and while I could glibly say "Thank you for the fried potato strings, jergoff..." I take a more nuanced position:  Thanks for the blueprint to the teen sex comedy, jergoff.


Title: Sex and Violence
Post by: Dzimas on May 30, 2007, 11:56:39 PM
The American drama generally equates sex with violence.  Horror films especially.  You know that where there is sex heads will roll, which leads me to conclude that horror tales are essentially religious moral tales - it is a sin to have sex.  I prefer the peurile teen flicks because sex is treated more casually.  Most of us enjoy a little peak, whether it is leaving a comuter camera on in American Pie or looking through a peep hole in Porky's, there is a vicarious thrill and no harm is done.  But, where things seem to really go astray is in melodrama, where sex generally has a way of turning violent, not quite as nasty as in horror movies, but the woman usually gets punished for revealing too much of herself too soon, unless of course you have femme fatales like Sharon Stone or Rebecca Romijn, then the guy usually gets it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 31, 2007, 08:38:52 AM
Contemporary foreign films tend to successfully portray a more humanistic theme, small, intimate but enlightened stories.  Many done with the one held camera technique...what is that term?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 08:56:54 AM
"Cinema verite"... or at least that's what I think I remember reading one time in Cinema, Not Cinema.

As to "humanistic," in his review of the wayyyy-underrated "Mouse Hunt" (about two brothers who aspire to renovate and sell an inherited old mansion and are tormented by the mouse they find residing in its walls) in TheOnion.com, Rabes writes: "It's hardly a masterpiece, of course, and much of the slapstick quickly grows tiresome, but at its best, Mouse Hunt's baroque, Dickensian universe recalls Nicholas Roeg's terrific, underrated, and similarly mouse-centric Roald Dahl adaptation 'The Witches'.  And for a movie in the notoriously sadistic kiddie-slapstick genre, it's surprisingly humanistic, refusing to villainize either the brothers or the spunky little mouse."








Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on May 31, 2007, 09:01:10 AM
If we are still on the subject of sex, yes it does seem that non-American films have a way of more naturally exploring the subject without all the violent overtones.  I think of the wonderful Eric Rohmer movies.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 09:45:06 AM
                                     MAUDE
                         Do you like sex, Mr. Lebowski?

                                     DUDE
                         Excuse me?

                                     MAUDE
                         Sex.  The physical act of love. 
                         Coitus.  Do you like it?

                                     DUDE
                         I was talking about my rug.

                                     MAUDE
                         You're not interested in sex?

                                     DUDE
                         You mean coitus?

                                     MAUDE
                         I like it too.  It's a male myth
                         about feminists that we hate sex. 
                         It can be a natural, zesty enterprise.
                         However there are some people--
                         it is called satyriasis in men,
                         nymphomania in women--who engage
                         in it compulsively and without joy.

                                     DUDE
                         Oh, no.

                                     MAUDE
                         Oh, yes, Mr. Lebowski - these unfortunate
                         souls cannot love in the true sense
                         of the word.  Our mutual acquaintance
                         Bunny is one of these.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on May 31, 2007, 10:14:59 AM
For those fond of Scacchi flesh (artist's model variety), Olivier acting, and writing by John Fowles & John Mortimer, there's always this (it says for TV, but maybe it can be found somewhere) http://imdb.com/title/tt0087190/



I recall both the film, and really short discussion on Fowles (The Ebony Tower, being one of his least known books among his American readers.)in nytimes. fiction forum (in which the other participant was "red..." from the former African-American Literature forum who was later known as "blue..." and was quite interested in Fowles connection to specific French writers who changed the novel at that time. They were often intimately connected to film that people claimed not to understand or found tedious. At any rate,Fowles made a sort of sabbatical, at this point in his life, into France and, thus,The Ebony Tower, came into being among other things. 

If you check out the other credits on screen-writer, Mortimer,you'll recall a lot of Rumpole of the Bailey;there's one mention of John Thaw, at Oxford, as the music loving detective,Inspector Morse.

Which leads me to The Red Violin. I'm afraid Samuel L. Jackson ruined that one for me, which was a total surprise. As an actor, he should have known better. Perhaps, if I patiently view it again, I could overcome my distaste for the experience.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 03:44:15 PM
How in the world did Ken Watanbe not even get nominated for his performance in "Letters From Iwo Jima"?  Or the kid for that matter?   I mean, I like Leo Dicaprio and all, and I never saw "Blood Diamond", but come on...

Oh, and I like Ryan Golsing, too, and I liked "Half Nelson" and thought he was great in it, and I don't know "acting" from shinola, but still - all I know is what I see, and after watching "LFIJ", I was blown away by Watanbe and by the kid, much more so than after watching "Half Nelson".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on May 31, 2007, 04:19:20 PM
Had you seen him in -- Memoirs of a Geisha?

There's a lot of "corn" there,and a lot of historicity of a cultural sort throughout Asia, but his is the finer performance  in this divertisement, perhaps when you get really tired of two or three hysterical females.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 04:19:57 PM
Oh, and speaking of "should be nominated," look no further than Molly Shannon in "Year Of The Dog".  I know what you're thinking, and I'd be thinking the same thing, but crazy as it may sound, as you watch the movie you can't help but think wow, what a breakthrough for Molly Shannon.  

I guess Mike White just must have seen something in her that no one else in the world saw, gave her a chance and she nailed it.  You don't see too many movies with a female protagonist unless it's something where her child has been abducted or something, so "YOTD" was refreshing in that sense, i.e., you can't really say yeah, I've seen this before, etc.  Or maybe you can, I don't know... all I know is I can't say it was like anything I've seen before, that I can remember.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on May 31, 2007, 04:33:03 PM
Watanbe has such a charismatic presence on screen.  Gosling's role and convincing performance (as good as it was) simply doesn't compare to the emotional scope of LFIJ.  So, possibly, comparing the storylines, Gosling carried the movie/vehicle, whereas Watanbe (as good as he was) was carried by the larger vehicle...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 31, 2007, 04:35:00 PM
Razz me for saying this, but I've always really disliked Molly Shannon's work on SNL; to me, Ms. Shannon and a handful of others were poster children for why the show sucks.  But a while back she did an episode of Scrubs (yeah, I know), and IMHO actually came off sympathetically.  I was really surprised, but thought she did a decent job. 

So, I am not surprised if Mike White saw something in her, or that she rose to the occasion. I read a synopsis of Year of the Dog, and thought I shouldn't see it, but I don't recall exactly why.  I'll probably rent it some day so I can sob, blow my nose, and do all that stuff in private.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 04:36:23 PM
Had you seen him in -- Memoirs of a Geisha?

I did not - that girl is really cute and all, but I just couldn't see myself watching that movie.  Anyways, if you liked KW at all in "MOAG" or anything else, then you will be blown away by "LFIJ".  

Oh, and I was just reading about it, and the kid who played Saigo (who I referred to earlier as "the kid") in the movie, who also gave a great performance, is actually in a Japanese "boy-band" called Arashi.  The movie really gets into the whole nature of the Japanese mindset, the whole "death with honor" thing, and the paradox of how that might require suicide, and yet you're doing the enemy a favor at the same time, etc.  

The kid is the vessel (or whatever the term is) by which we, as outside observers, are shown the complexity of the issue, in that through flashbacks we learn that he's a simple baker with a pretty wife and a baby on the way, etc., and despite his outward compliance with the whole "we'll die with honor here" thing that his commanding officers profess, he's really just like, man, get me off this island so I can go see my wife and baby, etc.

Watanabe's character is the Lt. General in command on the island, and thus the whole death with honor thing is explored through his eyes in a different way [I guess there's no such thing as a SPOILER here, since we all know that the Japanese lost, but it might be a SPOILER coming up in this post if you're spoilable...] in that he's down with the whole death-with-honor thing, but he sees it as yeah, die if you have to, but stay alive long enough to take out a few of the enemy with you, even if this whole thing of trying to keep the island is futile, if we can just hold them off for another day or two, that's another day that the rest of the Japanese army has to win the war on other fronts, etc.  

However, he's betrayed by his subordinate officers who, once it's obvious the US troops will eventually take the island, disregard his orders to have their troops fall back and join other troops, and instead start giving the suicide orders to their troops.  And by suicide, I don't mean running at the enemy and trying to take them out, but actual simple suicide, where you take a live grenade and hold it to your chest.  

Watanabe is pissed when he finds out, and you get the idea that, had they only followed his orders and strategy, they would have achieved a more "honorable" death, i.e., sure, eventually the US was going to take the island no matter what (they outnumbered the Japanese, like 100,000 to 20,000), but had the subordinate officers obeyed Watanabe, they could have held the US off for a few more days.  Plus, Watanabe thought that help from the Imperial Fleet was on the way, so he figured that holding the US off for a few days would give them at least a fighting chance, albeit unlikely, at victory.  But then later he gets the word from HQ that there is no help on the way, Japanese forces on other fronts are already over-extended, etc., and by that time some of his subordinate officers have already screwed him over with the above-described suicide order.

This post is too long already, so I'll wrap it up, whatever "it" is.  I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, other than "LFIJ" was awesome, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 04:42:45 PM
I'll probably rent it some day so I can sob, blow my nose, and do all that stuff in private.

It's really not a tear-jerker, even though her dog dies.  That happens pretty early, and sets the story in motion.  I guess if you're a big-time dog person then it might make you sad, I don't know.

I thought the movie was consistently funny (dog dying notwithstanding), with great contributions by every supporting actor.  Regina King takes the whole "friend of the protagonist" thing and just zooms with it - you'll notice that in some of her scenes with Shannon (the typical scene where the friend of the protagonist chides the protagonist, encouraging her to go out on a date with someone, etc.), in the shots of King, King is looking directly at the camera, and then you cut to Shannon, and it's an over-King's-shoulder shot. 

Whatever the intent of that was, the effect was that you get the full effect of King's energy and mastery of facial expressions and body language and whatnot that, as far as I can tell, is what good actors do. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 04:49:24 PM
So, possibly, comparing the storylines, Gosling carried the movie/vehicle, whereas Watanbe (as good as he was) was carried by the larger vehicle...

That's a good point, and maybe one could take it a step further and say that anyone could have played Watanabe's part and been just as good, etc.  I would disagree, but I guess you never know. 

It's an interesting notion, the whole "who else could have done that" thing.  One of the most interesting applications, I think, is in the case of "The Big Lebowski", and Jeff Bridges' performance as The Dude.  The first thought is, so he's a lazy stoner, how hard could that be?  But then you see that every single "uhhh..." and stammer and squint is scripted, and that the whole basis for the humor of the movie is the whole abide-versus-achieve conflict, and you realize that yeah, it took a lot of skill to pull that off.

I read somewhere that, when they were writing it, the Coens specifically had Goodman, Buscemi and Turturro in mind for their roles, but they didn't know who the Dude would be, and then as they were writing, it became obvious that it had to be Jeff Bridges.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 31, 2007, 04:53:46 PM
It's really not a tear-jerker, even though her dog dies.  That happens pretty early, and sets the story in motion.  I guess if you're a big-time dog person then it might make you sad, I don't know.

Yup, that'll do it.  I lost a dog to cancer not too long ago, so it's a touchy subject for me.  Even without that factored in, I get all red and sniffly when I'm just flipping by Homeward Bound.  But based on your recomnmendation, I'll be sure to check it out sometime.  Thanks, oil!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 31, 2007, 07:10:56 PM
Does LFIJ seal the deal that Clint is the man, the way yun-fat would confidently assert even in his lesser efforts like that reporter/death row one that so closely mirrored and lampooned hackneyed Hollywood endings as similarly lampooned in "Habeus Corpus" and real actual Hollywood movies, that is, not only is Clint able to make a shitty movie about biting the hand that feeds him where the third act is all a dream and the level of preposterousness is manically comic like "The Rookie's" better moments, but also able to make a straightforward humanistic anti-war picture from the perspective of a once-vilified enemy, basically taking the ability to be funny and serious and in a career embody basically everything you want in a director?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on May 31, 2007, 10:15:43 PM
Well, Clint is the man, at least for today, because it's his birthday.   Many happy returns, Mr. Eastwood.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on May 31, 2007, 10:29:54 PM
He make 82 look like he should have sex with Jessica Biel in his newest cop feature where he throws his badge on the table, lives on a houseboat, and is investigating the double homicide of Biel's mom and grand-mom, one of which (pick, and your screenplay runs from there, or both), by the way, always turn in your gun before your badge, it makes more sense, or actually, it sounds better to here the shlifffffff of a badge sliding under an under-investigated case, and much more final and terrific to hear the clatter-clatter-clunk, or any variation thereof, of the gun. 

"You ought to keep your gun.....what happens to a turned in badge, do I put it in here with the Tootsie Rolls and Kleenex, or are you still going to work the case, hell, take your gun back at least, I don't like the idear of going back to my car without you packin'"

"Fuck you."

"I wouldn't give you the pleasure..."

"Okay.  I'll keep the gun.  Tell "The Times" I'm on "administrative suspension," and I need a photograph.....

"I'm keeping your badge to play cops and robbers with your ex-wife later..."

"Fuck you?"

[fade to]

Militant Radical Agenda Skate punks POV down every windy locale in the Bay Area...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on May 31, 2007, 10:47:45 PM
Does LFIJ seal the deal that Clint is the man...

What are your 3 favorites, in the last 20 years, of any particular director?  For me, with Clint it's now

1 Unforgiven
2 LFIJ
3 MDB

and that's pretty strong.  I can't think of anyone else with a better (in terms of where they stand among my favorite movies ever) top 3 in the last 20 years, outside of the Coen Bros.  I guess Guillermo Del Toro comes close with

1 Pan's Labyrinth
2 Blade II
3 The Devil's Backbone

and you can't deny QT his

1 RD
2 JB
3 PF

Maybe if Mel Gibson can keep it together for one more great movie before he goes completely and irrevocably Heche, he'd be up there with "TPOTC" and "Apocalypto".  I liked "Braveheart" okay, but not enough to give Mel a strong enough top-3 to compare with Coens, Clint, GDT and QT.

I like a lot of Spike Lee's movies, but none enough to make a strong enough top-3 to enter the discussion - same for Scorsese, DePalma, Demme...  Maybe there's someone else I'm forgetting about?

Anyways, applying the top-3-last-20-years test, I'd say yup, deal sealed re: Clint=theman.






Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 12:05:24 AM
Which = Yun Fat = The Man

I wouldn't put Scorcese in the last 20 yr. bunch but would have trouble calling his body of work in any sort of contention with Clint's, while Clint could always play the actor card and slum, Scorcese couldn't, and as far as continuing to make films and find financing despite being highly idiosyncratic, I would have trouble eliminating DePalma as well.

In fact, you bring up the interesting point tacitly that DePalma is the sort of medium ground in terms of never relenquishing the auteurist patina, while also not having the actor card to play and not being "loved" in the same way Scorcese is by mainstream critics after "Goodfellas" and Clint was after "Unforgiven," while "Carlito's Way" is almost as interesting a film as those two, or equally interesting if not equally great, all while the influence of "Scarface" gains popular and underground or cult status among the gamer ("Grand Theft Auto") and hip-hop nation, and is arguably the greatest and most audacious film made in the last 30 years...

...so, yeah, but I agree that while the Coen Bros. outside of "Miller's Crossing" have not made a film that I consider "great" on the level of "Scarface," "Goodfellas," or "Unforgiven," and I certainly include MC among those great films, no director or "directing team" has made a body of work that is quite as distinctive or odd as the Coens have, again, possibly outside of DePalma, who is just as idiosyncratic and strange despite having made the popular hits "The Untouchables" and "Mission Impossible," I don't know, I think they all fall along the continuum of art vs. commerce all with the motivation of continuing to work and continuing to make good movies, but I guess the most irascible and frustrated one seems to be Scorcese, who has been seemingly less prolific in terms of making movies and making a big deal about them at the same time.....and Quentin Tarantino is an utter bust on that front seemingly lured by cocaine and the art of "the pitch" in favor of "shoot something..."

Talent and temperment are uneasy bedfellows when you start talking money, but I would put Eastwood ahead because he always makes the donkey move, no matter how dumb, or belabored by unworthy quarry...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 09:44:39 AM
I hadn't considered the "talking money" aspect in analyzing "theman" status, and that's a major factor, no doubt.   When asked if "The Hudsucker Proxy" was a case of the Coens trying to sell out, Ethan answered, "Sure... isn't everybody?"

While no analysis of "theman" status is complete without looking at the money, my little game is more fun if you keep it simple - pick a director, then pick your 3 favorite movies that he or she has done in the last 20 years, and then look at where those 3 place in your list of favorite movies of all time.  For me, the game is easy/boring at first, because BF, MC and TBL are my 1, 2 and 3 favorite movies of all time.  But it's more fun after that, and it had not occured to me before last night that now, having seen LFIJ, Clint is, for me, clearly ahead of anyone else in the top-3-last-20-yrs game.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 09:48:32 AM
Well, now, the last 20 years takes us back to 1987....  So with:

1. D
2. DLoV
3. B
4. W
5. R

we could easily make the case for Krysztof Kieslowski being "The Man" except for the being dead bit.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 09:59:01 AM
I can't help but notice that there's no H on that list.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 01, 2007, 10:00:37 AM
Saw two films this week, POTC3 and "Garden State" -- neither deserves further mention.   Looking forward to Mr. Brooks, bad reviews notwithstanding.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 10:01:36 AM
I can't help but notice that there's no H on that list.

But I guess that would be because he just wrote it and did not direct.  Due to the being dead thing and all that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 10:02:43 AM
Well, he wrote H - and E - but ran into unfortunate roadblocks in his attempts to direct.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 10:10:09 AM
And I watched The Fortune Cookie for the first time in a long time (thank you again Donotremove for cluing me in about how to use the OnDemand feature), but my reaction was "eh."  Which is strange, because I usually heart Billy Wilder flicks.  I think my main gripe is that the family was characterized so broadly, as such caricatures, that they created a distraction rather than a comedic effect.  Or maybe I'm just a bite in the ass.  Loved Jack Lemmon, though, and the ending; although I wanted to smack Lemmon upside the head and say "Finally!!" a couple of times.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 10:21:59 AM

we could easily make the case for Krysztof Kieslowski being "The Man" except for the being dead bit.

I remember I liked one of the "three colors" movies a lot ("White", maybe?), but the others I only saw once.   KK is surely way up there on my "should watch/re-watch but have not yet" list, so unfortunately, at the moment, I can't play the top-3-last-20 game with him.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 10:22:30 AM
I love TFC, but then there's something about any movie set in what Randy Newman called the City of Lights, City of Magic, that appealed to me.  And of course Matthou's sleazy lawyer-in-law was great, even if too broad.  But it has been years since I saw it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 10:23:17 AM
Well, now, the last 20 years takes us back to 1987....  So with:

1. D
2. DLoV
3. B
4. W
5. R

we could easily make the case for Krysztof Kieslowski being "The Man" except for the being dead bit.

Is there any volume of work that compares?
Someone tell me if there is...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 10:34:43 AM
Kieslowski had a hell of a run of movies up to his death.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a five or six consecutive string of movies like that, even from Wilder, who is my favorite director ever.  He had Love in the Afternoon, Spirit of St. Louis and Sabrina in between his SB, AitH, S17, SYI, WftP, SLiH, and A streak.  (Note: before Sunset, Wilder had directed A Foreign Affair, which had as its tag line: "It would make a cigar store Indian laugh ..."  Some of you may find that coming in handy.)

Hitchcock, maybe.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 10:46:32 AM
Is there any volume of work that compares?
Someone tell me if there is...

I'd submit the Coen Brothers, in order of my personal preference:

Barton Fink
Miller's Crossing
The Big Lebowski
Fargo
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
Blood Simple
Raising Arizona

I like their other movies, too, and from what I've read, the upcoming "No Country For Old Men" is a real hum-dinger.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 10:52:20 AM
But HP kind of interrupts the CB's string, as does - for me - RA.  But the CB's did have an impressive string of movies, until recently.  I rate them:

F
BS
BF
OBWAT
MC

I've yet to see TBL in its entirety.  And I am as excited for NCFOM as I have been to see a film in quite a while.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 01, 2007, 10:55:25 AM
They are apparently singing hosannas to NCfOM at Cannes.   Looking forward to it.

Both Hitchcock and Huston had some pretty amazing strings of films.  David Lynch, too -- though I know some feel Lost Highway was a misfire.  I'm more inclined to view Elephant Man as the odd movie of the bunch, but I really like everything he's done.  Though Straight Story, charming as it is, falls short of greatness for me.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 11:14:48 AM
I can't help but notice that there's no H on that list.

Technically, there are quite a few other letters of the alphabet missing also...

It's interesting to read these posts.  I know some of you only from the old college football forum and so its interesting to see another side of you all.

oh and unny, I never really thought of Ungforgiven as a great movie, to be compared with all time classics.  I alwasys just thought of it as a great Western.   In my mind, that movie not only established Clint Eastwood as a serious director, but it brought the Western back.

So what are everyone's top 5 Westerns of all time?


Title: Westerns
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 11:20:18 AM
I'm going to have to think about that myself.

One that I put up there now (and always get a lot of flak about) is Open Range with Kevin Costner and Bob Duvall.

Kevin Costner had a little trouble pulling of the Eastwood-esque lead role, but not enough to distract me.

During one early scene where they are stuck in the rain, it occured to me how they are one of the first Westerns to really show a non-romanticized portrayal of the cattle drive--at times long and boring--very much like life...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 11:23:22 AM
Does "Brokeback" qualify?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 11:28:16 AM
1. High Noon
2. The Searchers
3. Destry Rides Again
4. Little Big Man
5. Stagecoach

But that's just off the top of my head.

edit: No, need room for Liberty Valance in there.  Sorry Stagecoach.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 11:29:22 AM
Shane?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 11:30:34 AM
Not much of a western fan here...

Dances with Wolves?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 11:31:20 AM
1 Unforgiven
2 The Wild Bunch
3 McCabe & Mrs Miller


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 11:32:08 AM
Not much of a western fan here...

Dances with Wolves?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 11:34:03 AM
 What?      ::)



And...  I do remember enjoying Kilmer's performance in that Wyatt Earp saga...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 11:38:33 AM
ok...

Seriously,  McCabe & Mrs. Miller probably tops my list...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 01, 2007, 11:40:05 AM
1. Little Big Man
2. That Star Trek episode where they transport back to the OK Corral
3. Fargo (or is that a midwestern?)
4. Dances with Wolves (and I don't even like Costner)
5. Blazing Saddles


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 01, 2007, 11:41:38 AM
ok...

Seriously,  McCabe & Mrs. Miller probably tops my list...

dangitt... uh, chunk out Fargo.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 11:42:11 AM
I don't think you're allowed to list "Blazing Saddles" unless you also list "Rustler's Rhapsody".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 11:44:00 AM
What?      ::)



And...  I do remember enjoying Kilmer's performance in that Wyatt Earp saga...
Let's just say that Dances With Wolves does not rate all that high on my list.


Title: rhapsodic rustlin'
Post by: chauncey.g on June 01, 2007, 11:44:35 AM
"Confident heterosexual."

that is, confident about my heterosexuality, just not so much a confident hetero. or something like that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 11:45:48 AM
Actually Dances with Wolves did have several memorable scenes...


I still try to catch the opening scene where Costner rides accross the civil war battle line with his arms spread wide -- hoping against hope to get shot and end his misery...and instead inspires the troops and winds up a decorated hero.


Title: Re: rhapsodic rustlin'
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 11:47:36 AM
"Confident heterosexual."

that is, confident about my heterosexuality, just not so much a confident hetero. or something like that.

Rustler's Rhapsody

A GREAT movie!!!


Tom Beringer:  "You shot me...wait a minute, you're not a good guy"

Patrick Wayne:  "I'm a lawyer!"


Title: Rustler' Rhapsody
Post by: chauncey.g on June 01, 2007, 11:54:04 AM
and the female lead was the woman from Taxi, right?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 12:00:23 PM
My memory is not perfect and it's been many years since seeing the film, but the scene you're refering to went something like follows

When facing each other in a showdown gun fight...


Patrick Wayne Character:  "Everybody knows you need to be a confident heterosexual to be a good guy"

Tom Beringer Character: "confident Heterosexual?   I thought it was just heterosexual."

PW:  "No...it's confident"

TB:  "I didn't know that.  You know, I just thought of an appointment that I need to take care of. Maybe we can do this tomorrow or later in the week..."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 12:02:53 PM
Marilu Henner ... yes.

who needs memory?  Here is the IDMb site and a few selcted quotes...


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089945/


Rex O'Herlihan: This is 1884. You've gotta date and date and date and date and sometimes marry 'em even before... you know...
Peter: Now, wait a minute. Are you tellin' me you've never...?
Rex O'Herlihan: Never.
Peter: My god, Rex. You ARE a good guy.

beginning of that same showdown scene...

Bob Barber: Ever faced another good guy before?
Rex O'Herlihan: Nope.
Bob Barber: Me neither.
Rex O'Herlihan: Kinda makes you wonder what'll happen.
Bob Barber: I figure the good guy'll win, just like always.
Rex O'Herlihan: Yeah, except we're both good guys.
Bob Barber: Then I figure the most good good guy will win.
Rex O'Herlihan: That's how I figure, too.
Bob Barber: Yep.




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 01, 2007, 12:22:59 PM
(chuckle)

thanks. must rent it soon.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 01:30:30 PM
"Dances With Wolves" isn't a Western.

Oil, I hadn't thought of BF when I last posted which is certainly great and on the same list of great film by the greatest American directors over the last 20 yrs., and when I said that "talent and temperment are uneasy bedfellows whey you start taling money..." I meant not the money that the directors or their films made, but only that Clint and DePalma seem to be happy to have been hired guns when Scorcese seemingly has more of a moral dilemma about it or an anxiety about what his body of work will look like when he's gone.  It was also easier for the Clint and Depalma to sell out and then make something interesting and then sell out again (while keeping it on some level interesting or apologetic or slyly funny and ironic, think "The Rookie" or "Space Cowboys" or  "Mission to Mars"), but anyway I just meant that I like the "sure, sounds like fun" aspect of the Clint/DePalma journey and find that Scorcese's reluctance and trouble getting things made has led to lower output and the greater risk of producing some average films that you labored over for a couple of years, rather that on to the next one.....

Westerns, off the top of my head.....

1)  The Wild Bunch
2)  Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
3)  Unforgiven
4)  Stagecoach
5)  Shane
6)  The Outlaw Josey Wales
7)  High Plains Drifter

"The Man who Shot Liberty Valance," "Fistfull of Dollars," "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly," "Rio Bravo," also spring to mind...

Never seen "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid" or "The Searchers," and can offer no good apology for that...I know there are other westerns I'm forgetting...

While "Stagecoach" and "Shane" seem almost quaint by today's standard, the filmmaking is above reproach and both are archetypal and essential...I just love Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and despite some Western purist dismissing it as marginal great, I disagree because of where it occured during the counter-culture shift (and evolution of genre filmmaking) toward the anti-hero, and it has major movie star charm and humor, and an unmistakable melancholy, perfect pair with the more hardscrabble "The Wild Bunch" which you could compare as "Pet Sounds"/"Sgt Peppers," i.e. Brian Wilson is making one of the better rock albums of all times and is revolutionary and daring, and then Sgt. Peppers comes out.  The analogy isn't perfect, but you know there had to be that moment when George Roy Hill saw TWB and went "ahhhhhh, shit...," knowing that he still made one of the best (and certainly most beloved) westerns ever.


Title: Doh!
Post by: chauncey.g on June 01, 2007, 01:32:33 PM
Blazing Saddles ain't a western either. It's a friggin' musical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8B3pf3mOh0


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 01:36:46 PM
There's lots of music in westerns at the saloons.  Destry Rides Again comes to mind, for one thing. (See what the boys in the back room will have.....)  So I think Cab Calloway et al fit in just fine.

I'll throw in CopLand (not Aaron) as a western, though it takes place in contemporary NY/NJ.  It's basically High Noon revisited.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 01:44:50 PM
I'll throw in CopLand (not Aaron) as a western, though it takes place in contemporary NY/NJ.  It's basically High Noon revisited.

And when James Mangold makes another movie that I like a lot, it will go along with "CopLand" and "Heavy" to propel him into my top-3-last-20 discussion.  I liked "Walk The Line", but not enough to merit top-3-last-20 consideration.

Maybe "3:10 To Yuma" will do the trick - I mean, it has Christian Bale going for it.  Unfortunately it also has the horrifically obese Russell Crowe in it, so who knows?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 01, 2007, 01:45:25 PM
Yes, Butch & Sundance...
Forgot about that....
That would be #2 ...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 01, 2007, 01:56:09 PM
There's lots of music in westerns at the saloons.  Destry Rides Again comes to mind, for one thing. (See what the boys in the back room will have.....)  So I think Cab Calloway et al fit in just fine.

I'll throw in CopLand (not Aaron) as a western, though it takes place in contemporary NY/NJ.  It's basically High Noon revisited.
Not to mention Count Basie.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 01:59:48 PM
I love Shane precisely for its age and consequent otherworldliness. Well, that and Jean Arthur.  Shane may be old-fashioned; but it reminds me of the idea that doing the right thing matters.  And I always get a chuckle out of Joey calling out "My mother misses you, Shane."   (She sure does, kid!)

And I run hot and cold with Red River - sometimes I really enjoy it, other times I just get pissed off at Tom Dunston and find something else.  

jbottle, I really enjoyed your take on Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, George Roy Hill and the changing face of the Western anti-hero.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 02:00:22 PM
There's lots of music in westerns at the saloons.  Destry Rides Again comes to mind, for one thing. (See what the boys in the back room will have.....)  So I think Cab Calloway et al fit in just fine.

I'll throw in CopLand (not Aaron) as a western, though it takes place in contemporary NY/NJ.  It's basically High Noon revisited.
Not to mention Count Basie.....

Whoopsey!  Should have checked instead of winging it!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2007, 02:31:31 PM
Harrie --what do...you mean..."See what the boys in the back room will have."? Mein schatz.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 02:37:25 PM
Thanks, harrie, yeah, there's some sexual tension and subtext I guess with Shane and the kid I thought says "mother wants you..." but I may be misremembering, it's pretty obvious that she is drawn to Alan Ladd, and it's kind of funny that even though he's not an imposing figure and movie star pretty boy good looking, that he pulls off being a badass as we are in the thrall of a great entertainment--that like you say, has some interesting things going on despite appearing kind of modest.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 02:47:56 PM
"Heaven's Gate" deserves mention for some of the standout scenes like the one you mention--but wasn't there also a wedding in HG or a big ball that was massive in scope and had to be hell to execute?  There's a lot to love about the "beautiful mess" of "Heaven's Gate," and everybody knows it was a financial disaster, but it's a damn good movie and the only knock might be from impatient viewers, it's too long for some for sure, but it's hard to knock the filmmaking, the vision, even if it is sort of hard to follow plot-wise and seems a little patched together--nobody can deny that some of what Cimino put on the screen was amazing, now I remember, the graduation of the friends at the beginning and the party/dance that follows wouldn't get made today without CGI, and that is a shame.  Cimino can always look at that and know he shoved it down their throats even if it ushered in the crap movies of the 1980's.  Cimino gets blamed like Alan Greenspan, like it was his fault that all of what followed was a result of his existence and hubris, and there's certainly an argument to be made.....but at least with Cimino at least we're talking about shadows on a wall.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 02:52:44 PM
Harrie --what do...you mean..."See what the boys in the back room will have."? Mein schatz.

It's what Marlene Dietrich sings in Destry Rides Again.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 02:55:03 PM
yeah, there's some sexual tension and subtext I guess with Shane and the kid I thought says "mother wants you..."

As already noted, my memory's on the fritz today -- your recollection sounds right to me. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 04:51:26 PM
"Pa's got things for you to do. And Mother wants you. I know she does!"

For the rizeckord.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 01, 2007, 05:33:13 PM
"Pa's got things for you to do. And Mother wants you. I know she does!"

Say, that reminds me.  Yun-Fat was always singing the praises of "The Fatal Glass Of Beer", a WC Fields short movie from like 19-something-and-whatever, and I finally saw it recently.   You have to meet it half-way, but I found it to be worth the effort.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 05:40:52 PM
Yeah, it's pretty funny, but the title is funny on it's own.  I forget the plot but I know it's a night not fit for man nor beast.  I think it must've been really big at the time, a huge thrill for people to see.  It's a short, though, right, only about 20 min.?  It's been years since I've seen it, I want to watch them all, but you have to assume that he is half in the bag all the while.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 01, 2007, 05:51:11 PM
"There are three movies crammed into this one: The first is good, the second is so bad it's good, and the third is just plain bad. That's still three times the bargain most movies offer."--Ty Burr, "Boston Globe," on "Mr. Brooks"

What you said barton.

I know Judd Apatow is a smart guy, but following up T40YOV with an evidently just as funny if not funnier "Knocked Up" is a real feat.  There seems to be almost universal praise for this one, and while the Farrelly Bros. seem to have lost their way, if true, it's nice to have Apatow around to rely on because comedies are so rarely funny, but especially romantic comedies, that finally we have a guy making date movies that don't seem like a Barrymore, Aniston, Luke Wilson, Kate Hudson, etc. jumblefest where you pair a couple that hasn't been paired on screen before and viola, fun. 

I really liked T40YOV mainly for the co-workers lines, and thought the third act dragged as the romance took shape, but yeah, keep it coming 'Tow, good on you.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 02, 2007, 02:56:45 PM
Harrie --what do...you mean..."See what the boys in the back room will have."? Mein schatz.

It's what Marlene Dietrich sings in Destry Rides Again.

I know, Harrie, I just think that I heard it in German; but that was when I had no idea you aren't Harry

Meanwhile, if Dzimas shows up later today, I'd really like to know if anyone remembers the title of that recent film made by Nicholas Cage, not just on gun running but the munitions business in general(?) because I want to take a look at it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 02, 2007, 03:12:43 PM
I thought "Lord Of War" was kind of silly.  Nicolas Cage sells guns in bulk to all of these ruthless killer dictators, etc., and they just say "okay, thanks for the guns, here's your $$$"...

Huh?  If they're really ruthless killer dictators, why don't they just say "thanks for the guns" and then shoot him?  Or just take the guns and shoot him without even saying thanks?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 02, 2007, 03:31:40 PM
I thought "Lord Of War" was kind of silly.  Nicolas Cage sells guns in bulk to all of these ruthless killer dictators, etc., and they just say "okay, thanks for the guns, here's your $$$"...

Huh?  If they're really ruthless killer dictators, why don't they just say "thanks for the guns" and then shoot him?  Or just take the guns and shoot him without even saying thanks?
Because no one would ever sell them another gun.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 03, 2007, 08:43:16 AM
But these are supposedly ruthless killer dictators, not Chamber of Commerce board members.  Would they really say, "Oh, I better not shoot Nicolas Cage, it might tarnish my reputation in the Association of Ruthless Killer Dictators and Gun Dealers"?  Maybe they would, I don't know.   I'm guessing they'd instead say something like, "Instead of paying Nicolas Cage a million $, I'll just shoot Nicolas Cage, take these guns for free, and when I need more, I'll go find some other scumbag gun dealer and kill him," BHWDIK?


Title: Pirates
Post by: Dzimas on June 03, 2007, 11:07:16 AM
Speaking fo Chow Yun-Fat, not even he could save the big sprawling mess that was the latest Pirates movie.  Not to say it wasn't entertaining at times, but simply too many characters reduced to caricatures in an attempt to give everyone a spot in this movie.  Keith Richards almost stole the show with his memorable appearance, until he uttered a few words and the moment was lost.  I thought there might have been some grand vision, given all the interesting ideas that were tossed out in Dead Man's Chest, but World's End showed that they were simply making this stuff up as they went along.  I hope they give the theme a rest for awhile, coming back with some fresh ideas and some fresh faces.  The crew was starting to look a little stale, even after they shed their scales.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 03, 2007, 01:31:19 PM
Dzim, I posted very similar reaction to POTC3 at another website.  What a bladder-busting ordeal.   Keith Richard was okay, but rock star cameos never do that much for me, as they mainly serve to pull me out of the movie -- and there's the little storm of whispering that crosses the audience, "Hey, that's [name]!"  Keira continues to look like the 12 year old boy's dream girl, and seems like she would blow off in a strong wind.  What I'm saying is, she looks very un-17th century, and her attempt at a Henry V rouser/speech on the deck at the end was not too convincing.



Title: Pirates
Post by: Dzimas on June 03, 2007, 02:07:04 PM
Yea, barton, a little too much like Milla Jovovich in Joan of Arc.  I found POTC3 highly derivative, from the "Being John Malkovich" scene in Davy Jones' Locker, to the Baron Munchausen-like battle scenes, a la Terry Gilliam.  POTC3 looked like a slapped together job, rather than a fitting climax to what were pretty decent movies before.  I have a feeling Disney put a lot of pressure on Verbinski to get this one out quickly on the heels of Dead Men's Chest, so as not to lose the thunder.
.


Title: Ruthless Dictators
Post by: Dzimas on June 03, 2007, 02:17:02 PM
Oilcan, I guess there is supposed to be a certain amount of honor among thieves, but like you I find such movies incredulous to say the least.  But, speaking of ruthless dictators, curious to see The Last King of Scotland.  I missed it when it made its round at the theatres.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2007, 03:52:54 PM
 "Keith Richards almost stole the show with his memorable appearance, until he uttered a few words and the moment...dzimas re:#344....rather than a fitting climax to what were pretty decent movies before." re:#346
and re:#347  But, speaking of ruthless dictators, curious to see The Last King of Scotland.  I missed it when it made its round at the theatres."

Dzimas,

Au contraire, mon ami, I took one look at Johnny Depp at the beginning of this total nonsense for kids at Saturday matinees back when this all began and saw that part of his ensemblage was stolen from Keith Richards. Okay, so he opened his mouth and out came, what? English piratical cockney just like they still speak at the Jersey Shore? As far as pretty decent movies, other than some fancy prancing improv by Depp, which would probably make him a French pirate, which brings to mind was this part of the original plot twist or am I thinking of an entirely different pirate episode,yes, I think that I am remembering a bit of the Count of Monte Christo with Gerard Depardieu and son. Personally, I am waiting for the most recent true life adventure of the Spanish galleon that was swooped up  off the English coast from a really black-hearted knave who thinks this is the Queen against the Spanish Armada or some such, only to discover the Spanish government already has it covered legally and possibly insured. My interest continues since childhood when I sublimated a crush on Tyrone Power by instead being him and turning a good size tree as the rigging, with a deep hold cut out of the ground beneath it, for The Black Swan. Then somebody told me that pretty soon I'd have to put my shirt back on and my pirate days would soon be over.

Comcast is carrying The Last King of Scotland in my neck of the woods.  All I remember is Forest Whitaker  explaining physically in slow motion to his Actors' Studio host and audience how he got into character by watching the dancers jump up and down in a war dance, and he felt the rage, the anger, what Idi Amin was all about.

After I asked about the Nicholas Cage that I had missed( there are several), I did see one last night that  he directed, called: Sonny.  You probably know New Orleans as well as anybody, so succinctly it is about "being in the life",another round of Harry Dean Stanton, Mena Suvari doing a retake of Jodi Foster, down to exact costume when Jodi was still a child opposite Harvey Keitel as her pimp.  Only problem, Nicholas Cage could not resist staying off camera and ended up out of focus like a latter day Clay Shaw. Brenda Blethryn did the surprise turn by convincing us she was not from the UK one bit but just a good old gal as the mother of Sonny played by James Franco who looked like a young James Wood used to look when he was young.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 03, 2007, 07:15:05 PM
Well, "Knocked Up" seems to have been a good formula for success.  Give funny guys plenty of film to shoot as much as they want and improv when possible, hire the hottest young TV star who is hungry for a starring film role and talented and make it a date movie where everybody from "Grey's Anatomy" and T40YOV, or most, are willing to go along even though it sells as less raunchy and more "date" than T40YOV.

$30M firtst weekend vs. about twice that in cost to produce and good buzz and slow downcurve:  Bingo.

"Mr. Brooks," I want to rubberneck it, sure, but $10M vs. seven times that to produce:  Huge Loser maybe not in terms of artistic try but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$LOSER...

We have William Hurt, Kevin Costner, and a bad script attached to a movie even if a game director who doesn't have the heart to punch the cheese from American Single to full malodorous glory.....oh well, it's too bad that Kevin Costner has no sense of humor, but now, if you cast Bill Pullman, then and only then to we have a vexing psychological thriller worthy of grad-student bong hits, as it is, we have your basic misfire and money-loser.  Costner must feel like he needs more control over the release strategy:  This is cleary a late-September dumper, c'mon guys, you are pros at this shit.


Title: Matinee stuff
Post by: Dzimas on June 04, 2007, 01:01:11 AM
Maddie, the first two Pirates movies were fun, and for that matter so was the third, even if it spun wildly out of control, losing what little bit of center it still had left.  They obviously had great fun making these movies and the writers threw out a lot of good lines, making me think they actually read something about pirates in the Carribean, relishing the crazy scenario they set up.  After all, this was supposed to be matinee stuff, and yes, Johnny Depp drew on Keith Richards in creating his role of Capt. Jack.  That had been often commented on in the press, which was why it was a hoot to see Richards make a guest appearance in the end.  I suppose they will give it a rest for awhile.  At least I hope so.


Title: Shrek
Post by: Dzimas on June 04, 2007, 06:42:22 AM
What befuddles me more, maddie, is all the excitement over Shrek.  I just can't figure out the appeal of this big green goon, but then I guess that's because I'm not 6 years old.


Title: Bi-Polar Nick
Post by: Dzimas on June 04, 2007, 06:47:11 AM
As they once said about Greta Garbo, the emotional range of Nicolas Cage runs from A-B.  Talk about a bi-polar personality, he either plays some pathetic doting fool who seems trapped in a time warp or some crazed maniac hell bent on destruction.  Not that he hasn't put in some good efforts.  I got a kick out of him in Wild at Heart, when he first exhibited the crazed side of him, and thought he played his role well in Moonstruck on the flip side.


Title: Keira
Post by: Dzimas on June 04, 2007, 07:34:44 AM
Barton, I've noticed that Keira looks best when the camera focuses lovingly on her face.  She really is a nice looking woman, and that Chinese garb seemed to suit her well.  Could almost imagine her as a British version of Madame Butterfly.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 04, 2007, 07:36:04 AM
Chinese version of M. Butterfly of course.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 04, 2007, 10:13:34 AM
Jbot, any chance you could see Mr. Brooks before reviewing?  While your judgment may be on the mark, an actual viewing would lend credibility.   I'm a Costner fan and will see it, regardless.  I trust him to, at the least, do something interesting and funny with that sort of character. 

Keira looks like a cat.  I would cast her in any remake of Cat People.

 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 04, 2007, 12:39:05 PM
Bi-Polar Nick
« Reply #352  by Dzimas,

In, Sonny, he managed to do both:"some pathetic doting fool who seems trapped in a time warp or some crazed maniac hell bent on destruction." Somebody else's in the latter case, as well as his own, since he runs a rough trade establishment, dressed in some outfit that would be a Little Richard reject and a fake nose as if redoing some Groucho Marx --and then there was the fright wig; he simply could not resist hamming it up, after all he was the director, why not?

(as I said, it is like the  brunch-time party scene at Clay Shaw's house with "the Gilded body paint Hermes" as shot by Oliver Stone for the Kevin Costner version of JFK.)

Moonstruck is something that I never tire of, like a favourite holiday that rolls around once a year. Not only Nick Cage tearing up the scenery but the entire  cast did a remarkable job of ensemble acting. I watch it out of nostalgia for Italian families I have known. And, knew a woman who was a fount of wisdom like Olympia Dukakis as Cher's mother.

Speaking of which, this is way off the topic but just saw this again this morning--http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/06/04/russia.putin.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

But, what do you make of this?  Maybe you are at another Heading? I'll take a look around.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 04, 2007, 03:42:03 PM
Barton, "Mr. Brooks" is exactly the type of movie that might be judged before viewing, and you have little credibility as a "Jr.," rather than "Full," member, however, realizing that Kevin Costner fans are sensitive, I apologize.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 04, 2007, 04:21:12 PM
I'll admit to not being a Costner fan, but I love the idea of Bill Pullman as a serial killer.  But then, I like Bill Pullman in the first place.

The other night the hubby stayed up to finish watching The DaVinci Code and I went to bed.  He says I got the better half of the deal.  We both liked the book okay for what it was, a page-turner that's really about as deep as a puddle; but the  hubby said the movie had even less depth than the book and handled the exposition clumsily, as in having lots of tedious dialogue between Ian McKellen and Tom Hanks to provide background and move the story along. There's no particular reason for mentioning this, other than that I feel so totally smug about trashing the flick when it came out.

Perhaps someday I will share with all of you my thoughts on a movie I have personally seen, rather than a review by proxy.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 04, 2007, 11:15:48 PM
Never feel bad talking about any movie, but especially one you've never seen.  I have a long history of doing just that, which, in addition to malicious allegations of being "anti-personal trainer," led to my being dismissed from 3eye for commenting on the fact that admitted homosexuals found the pork and beans meet cute a bit discomfiting.  I think everyone ought to see every movie, or at least buy 12 tickets within a week to see a movie, such as "Chronicles of Narnia," which I saw eleven times with a few back to backs, until eventually, I slipped over into "Derailed," which I found Jenifer Aniston to be surprisingly good in.


Title: Keira
Post by: Dzimas on June 05, 2007, 04:59:31 AM
I could see Keira in a Cat People redux, although I liked Natasha Kinski in the last version.  I noticed that Vogue had Keira in an amusing take on the Wizard of Oz;

http://www.style.com/vogue/feature/120505/index.html

She wasn't too bad as a racy Guinevere in King Arthur.


Title: Moonstruck
Post by: Dzimas on June 05, 2007, 05:03:27 AM
Maddie, I can watch Moonstruck over and over again.  That had to be Cher's most charming role on the big screen, and she and Nicolas Cage were a good match.  But, I agree that Olympia Dukakis had the most memorable lines, and her relationship with John Mahoney was so fun to watch.  Hard to believe that was 20 years ago now.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 05, 2007, 10:18:03 AM
dzimas,

Also her relationship  manifest in the scene with Chaliapin  as she exits the restaurant with Mahoney and runs smack dab into her father-in-law walking his dogs.  (whom he always encourages to sing to the moon,"Bella Luna")  After which, she tells him in no uncertain terms that if his dogs ever do that (whatever?) again, or he does(whatever?),"I will kill you".  Her house is perfect, representational of life among Italian Americans, from the little "bar" which is a small buffet or tea-cart sized grouping of decanters for wine and spirits, with the picture of their immediate forebears who came from Italy almost adjacent -- to her kitchen:where she is making eggs fried in the cookie-cutter sized holes made in slices of Italian bread and topped with strips of red pepper crossed over the top. This is fried in olive oil, of course, which I did not understand until I tried it. Delicious. The long table crowding the kitchen where your in-laws are welcome to stop in on their way to work, and how she manages to crowd in one more full-length cupboard is excellent work on the decor by those guys who do "production values" where just two rooms on the set convey everything.

Natasha Kinski hit her top note in Roman Polanski's, Tess  (of the D'Urbervilles)by Thomas Hardy. (It is her father Klaus who has spooked me forever by his close resemblence to a director from Munich with whom I worked back in the Fifties. War does that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 05, 2007, 10:21:05 AM
Quote
Natasha Kinski hit her top note in Roman Polanski's, Tess
I'd say Paris, Texas, even if it was a small role.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 05, 2007, 10:36:23 AM
Nastassja

Cat People, baby.  Come on!!!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 05, 2007, 11:16:33 AM
Jbotnik --

"Barton, "Mr. Brooks" is exactly the type of movie that might be judged before viewing, and you have little credibility as a "Jr.," rather than "Full," member, however, realizing that Kevin Costner fans are sensitive, I apologize."

No apology needed, I just want you to go watch Mr. Brooks and then talk me out of it.  I'm trying to save money for a road trip.

As for junior member status, anyone who checks out my numbers will see that I will soon be, and have, a full member.

(I was going to wait on the risque "full member" joke until I attained it, but I am somewhat impatient....)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 05, 2007, 11:18:52 AM
Nastassja Kinski looked great in "Terminal Velocity" (1994), a competely watchable action movie with Charlie Sheen.  Sheen plays skydiver "Ditch" Brodie, which is his 2nd-best character name, right after his satellite-dish tech-guy Zane Zalinski in "The Arrival".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 05, 2007, 11:21:35 AM
(I was going to wait on the risque "full member" joke until I attained it, but I am somewhat impatient....)

Careful...you wouldn't want to be premature or anything.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 05, 2007, 11:27:21 AM
I don't think you're (the royal "you," the editorial) allowed to make jokes re: "member" status vis a vis "member" as a term for "penis".  It's one of those "too easy" situations - kind of like the University of South Carolina Gamecocks - if you make a joke referencing the "Cocks" part vis a vis "Cock" as slang for "penis", it's just like, come on, everyone is already way past that joke, etc.

I will, however, admit to laughing at the "member" joke in "The Party Animal" (1984):

PONDO
I'm having problems with my pecker.

HOT SCHOOL NURSE
You mean your member?

PONDO
My what?

HOT SCHOOL NURSE
You're having problems with your member?

PONDO
Oh... I've never thought of him as a "member."  I've always thought of him as more of a "loner."





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 05, 2007, 11:29:02 AM
Oilcan,

glad to see you resisting the siren call of the "too easy" member joke.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 05, 2007, 11:31:06 AM
Harrie:

Ha!



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 05, 2007, 11:33:51 AM
Harrie:

Ha!


I believe, linguistically, "Ha!" is classified as an ejaculation.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 05, 2007, 11:35:46 AM
I believe, linguistically, "Ha!" is classified as an ejaculation.

Unless it is uttered by A-Rod, in which case it is symbolic speech, to convey the message of "NNNNNNNoonan!!" or "MMMMMMMiss it!!"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 05, 2007, 11:47:26 AM
Let's steer clear of the linguistic issues, er, raised by "A Rod."



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 05, 2007, 11:58:25 AM
So the baseball consensus seems to be that saying "I got it..." was "bush league," but I thought it was kind of funny not being a baseball guy, it's one of those things where people would recoil in horror if you told Mickelson to "Shank it!!!" in his backswing, one of the sort of things that simply isn't done.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 05, 2007, 12:03:41 PM
Of course, when you are a FULL MEMBER, you can do just about anything!


Woohoo!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 05, 2007, 12:05:26 PM
thank goodness there is now a comedy section on this board...maybe some of you guys should go and check it out


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 05, 2007, 01:16:21 PM
whiskey: Did you see the movie your current and previous taglines (as well as a fave of mine about hard boiled eggs) are from as Ace in the Hole or as The Big Carnival
Oddly enough, Robert Osborne introduced it as The Big Carnival on TCM, while the opening credits called it Ace in the Hole.  I believe both titles are on my recorded DVD copy... but I'd have to check.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 06, 2007, 10:48:39 AM
Mr. Brooks was a fun ride. I haven't read any reviews, so I'm uncertain why the harsh buzz about Demi Moore. I thought she was okay, though a couple of her scenes (the van kidnapping) somehow didn't quite dovetail in there with the rest of the film, and I'm rarely impressed by gum-chewing as an actorial ("I'm a tough broad") device. And the notion of her being worth 60 million, but still choosing to be a homicide cop --- this wasn't really made clear to me, and so seemed strained, but I think she did her best with the script given her.

SPOILERS

The plot keeps you off-balance and guessing, and I'm still unclear as to whether Brooks is trying to give Moore's career a boost, or get her killed. The whole thing with the photography buff changing apartments, and the apartment happening to be next to the escaped "Hangman Killer" apartment, is a bit confusing. I sort of see how it could be set up, but the gunfight in the hallway seems to depend on random factors, i.e. when the Hangman Killer and his GF would be going out somewhere, and when Moore would show up at photographer's apt.

Similarly, is Brook's murder of the greedy ex-husband (of Moore) an attempt to help her out of a messy divorce, or a setup so that she will appear to be doing a copycat Thumprint Killer murder? Or both? He seems to like her, somehow, but clearly lots of ambivalence there. It will be a pleasure to watch Mr. Brooks again on DVD.

The ending has a sort of Fight Club resonance, in which Mr. Brooks seems to be trying to scare his Wm Hurt alter ego out of existence by threatening to kill himself. Mercifully, he doesn't have to shoot out his larynx to do the job, but then it's left unclear as to whether his right-brained pal will be back. An earlier scene suggests that the Hurt alter ego doesn't completely know what the Mr. Brooks left brain is thinking, though they occupy the same skull -- an interesting conceit, and yet another question mark that makes this film so interesting.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 06, 2007, 10:56:26 AM
I think I will take a pass on Mr. Brooks.  Outside of Bull Durham, I never had much time for Kevin Costner.  Strikes me as a latter-day Gary Cooper who I found insufferably boring.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 06, 2007, 11:28:37 AM
"Fight Club" *** SPOILER ***

The ending has a sort of Fight Club resonance, in which Mr. Brooks seems to be trying to scare his Wm Hurt alter ego out of existence by threatening to kill himself. Mercifully, he doesn't have to shoot out his larynx to do the job

Were you around for the "Pitt-as-a-tumor" theory discussion at the NYTFF?  It was a while back, maybe a year or two after "Fight Club" came out.

In a nutshell, the theory is that Brad Pitt is actually a tumor in or around Ed Norton's pituitary gland, altering his personality, causing him to hallucinate, blow up his apartment, hug Meat Loaf, lust after and punch Jared Leto, etc.  The self-inflicted gunshot to the face somehow neutralized the tumor, and Ed Norton can just hug HBCarter and get on with his life.

I know the gunshot wound was more to the larynx or neck or throat area, and not really near the pituitary gland, but it works better if you think maybe there was a wry/dumb joke in there, what with "Pitt-uitary" and so forth.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 06, 2007, 11:31:57 AM
I think I will take a pass on Mr. Brooks.  Outside of Bull Durham, I never had much time for Kevin Costner.  Strikes me as a latter-day Gary Cooper who I found insufferably boring.

"Bull Durham" was one of my least favorite movies ever... my 3 least favorite writer/directors are:

Kevin Smith
Cameron Crowe
Ron Shelton

Here are the Kevin Costner movies I've liked:

Waterworld
3000 Miles to Graceland
A Perfect World
Revenge



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 06, 2007, 11:38:20 AM
Oil, I suspect you will really enjoy Mr. Brooks.  It is film that is not typical of its genre or of Costner or really, of anything.  It has flaws, but you will enjoy them too, and be left with some intriguing things to ponder. 

The Pitt-uitary theory is a neat pun, even if it's bad anatomy.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 06, 2007, 12:03:59 PM
Waterworld ranks as one of my least favorite movies all time, as does The Postman.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 06, 2007, 12:54:48 PM
"The Postman" is great though, in the humorless way in which Costner spins a pretty ludicrous post-apocalyptic yarn.  "Waterworld" is good for the same reason, even though he ripped directoral control from Kevin Reynolds 3/4 ths of the way through.  When asked about budget overruns on WW by Leno, Costner famously stated:  "I don't make bad movies."  (cough)

On "...the Actors Studio," Costner claimed of "Dances With Wolves" (How did that come to you?), that he had to jack up Michael Blake on the wall of the cottage on Costner's property telling him to "write something good."  One week later the screenplay was done.  He basically takes credit for threatening to kick someone's ass to get "Dances With Wolves" created.  What an asshole.

He seems timid to me as an actor, the Joel Schumacher of mainstream leads, I mean, he seemingly gets embarassed at making bad movies when he should delight in it the way the more humorous and talented guys on the A- list do.....he was pretty good playing a drunk ex-pro baseballer in the one with what's her face.

I may go see Mr. Brooks tonight, are there any scenes that would make the any combination of jbottle, sigboth, and jbottle's mother uncomfortable?  I was severely mentally scarred when I took my mother to see PTA's Sandler one with all the phone sex stuff and I think an anal sex joke.  Ouchlee Von Ouchington, I presume (oof).   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 06, 2007, 12:59:43 PM
Oh, and for an example of why I don't like Costner's personality onscreen, look no further than 3K2MG, where Russell et. al. are having a gas, and it appears that Costner is stuck in glum mediocrity and no daring choices.  That performance happens to work in that film since there was so much cheese that a slice of white bread works, too, but it would have worked the other way too, if he went a little loopy with his character, anyway, that was a fun movie with a screenplay with more depth than people give it credit for because they were unwilling to think about something loud and audacious and so easy to dismiss.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 06, 2007, 01:01:31 PM
Postman was pretty good as I recall - it's been several years.  I can see the point about "Waterworld" not being a "good" movie, certainly not one that would achieve any sort of critical acclaim, but if you like sci-fi, you're probably one that's going to like it...

I don't think Kevin Costner is a particularly talented actor, but I tend to like his movies more than I dislike them...


Title: Waterworld
Post by: Dzimas on June 06, 2007, 01:41:33 PM
Hard to call it sci-fi, since Dennis Hopper and crew were reduced to having to row a super tanker.  It was little more than Mad Max on water, with a sullen-faced gillman looking more like The Man from Atlantis.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 06, 2007, 01:44:59 PM
The only "Actor" the avoidance of whose movies gives me more pleasure than avoiding Costner's is Keanu "Large Block of Wood" Reeves.  The Postman and Waterworld were painfully bad - they didn't even have fun winking at themselves, and that MIGHT have saved them.  That's the difference between it and the vastly superior Mad Max movies.


Title: Cool Hand Costner
Post by: Dzimas on June 06, 2007, 01:51:07 PM
That's for sure.  Mad Max was a hoot.  Costner is bearable in sports movies like Bull Durham and Tin Cup, where he can show off his athletic prowess and what little charm he has.  It is otherwise hard to distinguish him from one role to the next. I see no appreciable diifference in appearance or attitude from Waterworld to Wolves to Bodyguard to Graceland. Wolves stood out only for its cinematography and Graham Greene.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 06, 2007, 01:52:55 PM
Quote
Wolves stood out only for its cinematography and Graham Greene.
I was all jacked to see it for that reason, and then I ralized it was probably an entirely different Graham Greene.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 06, 2007, 02:00:50 PM
Oh well.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 06, 2007, 02:13:52 PM
The only "Actor" the avoidance of whose movies gives me more pleasure than avoiding Costner's is Keanu "Large Block of Wood" Reeves. 

I liked "Constantine" a lot, but I'm always a sucker for Bible-thriller-action-etc. movies.  I'm even looking forward to renting "The Reaping".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 06, 2007, 02:42:13 PM
Keanu showed some promise in River's Edge and Private Idaho, but once he achieved super-stud status it was over.  What's even worse is hearing him talk about his movies.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 06, 2007, 02:49:47 PM
He talks?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 06, 2007, 04:15:33 PM
I'm pretty sure that Tom Cruise is a moron, but I've always wondered whether Keanu simply has no desire to appear intelligent or is actually kind of slow on the draw.  He has a fairly flat affect but he holds the camera well enough in movies that aren't about people like "Speed," "The Matrix," "The Advocate," and "Point Break," all *** out of 4 "*" and 3.5 out of 5 * movies, and it's an underrated ability to simply be there and let the movie happen.

The real question is:  Harrison Ford moron yes or no?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 06, 2007, 05:28:42 PM
Interesting question...
He's supposed to be a top-notch (no pun intended) carpenter (designed and "had a hand in" his rather lovely home in Conn.) and he is a pilot, right?  So, moronic, let's hope not.  Acting?  IMHO the best thing about him is his voice, great quality, deep tones...and he seems to be aging fairly well, unlike Mr. Pitt who looks rather worn out as of late...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 06, 2007, 05:58:11 PM
Pitt looks great for 46, I mean he's the same age as George Clooney just about.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 06, 2007, 09:05:59 PM
I'm pretty sure that Tom Cruise is a moron,

jbottle,  Here's the problem. You don't know the history of psychiatry. I do.  Don't be glib, jbottle.

Quote
The real question is:  Harrison Ford moron yes or no?

I tend to agree with Kit that he can't be an idiot and fly a helicopter.  But -- extra casting for the Indiana Jones flick is next Monday and Tuesday.  If I get to go, and get picked (yeah, right!), maybe I can report back.  What's a fair question? --  maybe "What is Pi, to the fifth decimal place? You have three seconds."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 06, 2007, 10:36:14 PM
Harrie, harrie, you don't even know what Ritalin is.....think how many doctors fly small planes into buildings and into the drink, harrie, harrie, look, does a helicopter make you smart.....was T.C. from "Magnum" a genuis.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 06, 2007, 11:05:59 PM
.....think how many doctors fly small planes into buildings and into the drink,

Not to mention MLB pitchers....so I guess I have to take back the whole "it takes smarts to fly" theory. Though I hear Roger E. Mosley is a MENSA member.  (Me, I'm a DENSA member.)

But I know this guy who builds these amazing barns withouth blueprints for a hobby. And that's got to take smarts of a sort; because you send me to the lumberyard with the instructions to buy what I need to build even a run-in shed, and you just know there are going to be several trips involved for stuff I forgot, to trade stuff I shouldn't have bought for stuff I should have, etc.

And I looked for a few minutes for an appropriate TC quote to bastardize, but just didn't find one.  So there.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 07, 2007, 12:32:12 AM
In Ford's case, he can only project one appearance and that is himself, and lately he hasn't done that very well either.  For awhile there, between American Graffiti and Star Wars, he was apparently working as a carpenter in Hollywood.  Talk about getting a big break.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 07, 2007, 09:55:52 AM
To all this Costner bashing, or faint-praising, I can only say see Mr. Brooks.  What might have detracted in earlier roles works to perfection here.

Keanu does the low-key thing pretty well and makes it interesting to watch.  "Holds the camera" as Jbot put it.

Actors who put me to sleep are Tom Cruise, Ben Affleck, and Thomas Gibson (who, weirdly, is born on the same day and year as Cruise...).

An actor who I'm really starting to pay attention to is Matt Damon, and not just for the stunning year he has had with The Depahted and The Good Shepherd.  Now there was a role where he took zero affect and made it sing.   Wow.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 07, 2007, 10:10:14 AM
Dillon is OK.  I liked him Drugstore Cowboy and that movie he did set in Seattle, although the movie itself just about put me to sleep.  His directorial skills leave a lot to be desired, judging by,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0164003/

I'm curious but leary of his role in Factotum.  Hard to imagine him as Bukowski's literary alter ego.  I thought Rourke did a good job in Barfly, but Hollywood is more fun to read.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 07, 2007, 10:28:16 AM
To all this Costner bashing, or faint-praising, I can only say see Mr. Brooks.  What might have detracted in earlier roles works to perfection here.

Keanu does the low-key thing pretty well and makes it interesting to watch.  "Holds the camera" as Jbot put it.

Actors who put me to sleep are Tom Cruise, Ben Affleck, and Thomas Gibson (who, weirdly, is born on the same day and year as Cruise...).

An actor who I'm really starting to pay attention to is Matt Damon, and not just for the stunning year he has had with The Depahted and The Good Shepherd.  Now there was a role where he took zero affect and made it sing.   Wow.



I've always paid attention to Damon (not so much b-o-r-i-n-g Ben).  Other ( personally) appealing males worth watching:
Javier Bardem
Mads Mikkelsen
Depp
Gosling
Bale
Oleg Menchikov
Used to enjoy Cusack's work, not so much lately...


Title: Menchikov
Post by: Dzimas on June 07, 2007, 10:31:32 AM
Nice to see Oleg Menchikov's name mentioned.  He is so much fun to watch.  I wish he could get a break like Mads got in Casino Royale, so that he would get much more exposure. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 07, 2007, 10:51:32 AM
I seem to remember reading sometime ago that Oleg M. was not particularly interested in the "work" (so to speak) i.e. being an actor...?


Title: Menchikov
Post by: Dzimas on June 07, 2007, 10:57:01 AM
Russian actors don't seem to branch out that much.  They get plenty of work at home, splitting time between the stage and the screen, and the money is pretty good these days, although I don't imagine they command 7 figures for a single outing.  Menchikov has a great body of work, including the films with Mikhalkov.  Burnt by the Sun stands out in my mind.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 07, 2007, 12:52:36 PM
Tweaker Sizemore spun back into court.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 07, 2007, 01:16:58 PM
I hear the probation violation came about because, unlike the fabulous Ms. Hilton, Sizemore likes the food in the big house.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 07, 2007, 02:14:39 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796375/

Good surprise that a new John Dahl is right around the corner, looks like a good cast, Pullman, L. Wilson, Leoni, P. B. Hall, and others...cool.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 07, 2007, 02:59:44 PM
Jbot, I mentioned this upcoming film with some happy anticipation several months ago and was met by a giant yawn from the NYT regulars.  Glad someone finally noticed.  Though, IIRC, you were one of the yawners at that time.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: weezo on June 07, 2007, 03:19:34 PM
Tom Cruise:

When I was teaching learning disabled students, I learned that Tom Cruise, who was a real heartbreaker at the time, is dyslexic. Perhaps that's why you think he's dumb.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Lhoffman on June 07, 2007, 03:25:38 PM
Dyslexic people aren't necessarily dumb, in fact many are gifted.  Personally, I think Cruise is dumb because I've heard him talk.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 07, 2007, 03:27:48 PM
Personally, I think Cruise is dumb because I've heard him talk.

Exactly.  Thank you.

To clarify my position, here's one of my favorite Tom Cruise quotes: I'm usually nervous to meet people that I admire because what if they're not cool or something?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: weezo on June 07, 2007, 03:34:23 PM
I know learning disabled and dyslexic people are not dumb. But, they are perceived to be dumb or lazy by their teachers before they are diagnosed with a problem. So what if Tom Cruise is not bright? He's cute to have around!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 07, 2007, 03:34:59 PM
Barton:  Sorry, man, I remember that you brought that up now (yawn) but I'm feeling very sleepy.  I do remember actually, and hope that it's a wide enough release to compete here, right now POTC3 is taking up three screens which leaves five left at my favourite one to go to--one is too thugged out even for someone as streetwise as the bottle.  You'll be pleased to know that Brooksy is on the slate for tonight or tomorrow night, so will report.  I'm wondering how we "see" William Hurt in the movie, like, is that how Brookzy sees himself or is it the sneaky serial killer voice he hears while maintaining a seemingly unflappable exterior?  Again, shall report, but if you don't see it too then you won't be able to respond, so it's incumbent upon others, including the scumbag lurker, to see "Mr. Brooks" right away.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 07, 2007, 03:36:03 PM
Maybe Tom Cruise is dumb because his dyslexia made it hard for him to read books.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 07, 2007, 03:38:20 PM
The only "Actor" the avoidance of whose movies gives me more pleasure than avoiding Costner's is Keanu "Large Block of Wood" Reeves.  The Postman and Waterworld were painfully bad - they didn't even have fun winking at themselves, and that MIGHT have saved them.  That's the difference between it and the vastly superior Mad Max movies.

The Postman?

AWESOME.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: weezo on June 07, 2007, 03:42:54 PM
Dyslexic people are rarely widely read. I don't know about Cruise, but I have heard that Cher, who is also supposed to be dyslexic, had to have her parts read to her to learn the lines. Perhaps Cruise does also. Dyslexia sometimes affects both thinking and speech in addition to reading. It is possible that Cruise thinks he is saying what he should say and it comes out wrong. It would not be surprising. Perhaps that's why he went into acting, so he could memorize what he was going to say. As I said, no matter - he's cute to have around!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 07, 2007, 04:30:34 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796375/

Good surprise that a new John Dahl is right around the corner, looks like a good cast, Pullman, L. Wilson, Leoni, P. B. Hall, and others...cool.


  Ah, I love Philip Baker Hall aka Roman Krzeminski, you say? I can see that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 07, 2007, 04:42:08 PM
kitinkaboodle re:#406


"I've always paid attention to Damon (not so much b-o-r-i-n-g Ben).  Other ( personally) appealing males worth watching:
Javier Bardem        yes!
Mads Mikkelsen      who?
Depp                    He needs a really serious part,other than J.M.Barrie
Gosling                 I have learned to appreciate him,gradually.
Bale                      "  "       "        "  depreciate him.
Oleg Menchikov      I missed him;dzimas can explain him to me.
Used to enjoy Cusack's work, not so much lately... "


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 07, 2007, 05:37:07 PM
Bale does such a good job in "American Psycho" that it's impossible to fully appreciate until you see it a few times--the first time I saw it I thought well, it's not awful and surprisingly good and Bale did as much as he could with a hard part to play.  Now I think the movie is just great and that Bale is as subtle, funny, dead-on in the character mainly in the ambivalence about whether what is happening is imagination or reality, meaning he was having fun with the part and he didn't have to really decide whether to play menace or satire and pulls off both at the same time by embodying what you would think should have stayed on the page.  I think he should play more bad guys.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 07, 2007, 11:09:42 PM
Saw "Mr. Brooks," and while entertained much the way one of the Onion guys was, I can't say that it was anything other than advertised, the script "worked" despite not making any sense, and a solid supporting performance by Demi Moore who was actually funny a couple of times is one of the things to recommend it, surprisingly.  Certainly Dane Cook doesn't bring anything of humor or substance to the table other than that easily-accessible creepy geek side of the average stand-up comic that Jim Carrey double-lampooned in "The Cable Guy," that horrible insecure, borderline-personality type that every stand-up comic thinks that he is, unlike some like Zack Galafanakis who really is semi-nuts but seriously funny, Dane Cook is resigned to the sort of frat-boy humor (ordinarily no complaining) and 4-picture delusions of grandeur afforded everyone from Dana Carvey to David Spade to, uh, Dane Cook, and thankfully, none of his films have made enough money to make him a household name, and I'm crossing my fingers that the Kappas will be able to book him for 5K in ten years, even if I know it's just bigger than all that now...

Sorry to run-on so far away but yeah, Costner in another workmanlike performance where you see him looking for that twinkle of world-weary, movie-weary humor, then you look to William Hurt, obviously not caring and slumming his way through a glum exercise in being an alter-ego to a character that's even more boring than he is, but then thats sorta the point, you see Mr. Brooks is, well.....

.....there's the germ (?) of, like they said, about ten good ideas here but this is material where you sort of have to take a stand tonally or you end up with some interesting ideas that are played too far down the middle in something ultimately too adult and too unfunny to sell.....

The appeal of serial killers after all, is their distinct otherness, their sickness, in whatever refrain you'd like to place it.....but to have Dane Cook give a kind of arm-chair loser's cheer of basically how cool that was.....tends to be depressing unless you are one of the people who would find killing to be interesting as an intellectual and visceral thrill, which is disturbingly taken almost for granted in this film in what I can only call an immoral way.  I could talk for a long time about why this film is ultimately bad (though worth the money and time), but that would take too long, suffice it to say I am spoiled by people (like the Coens, if only) who know the difference between garbage and black comedy, between deep glumness and devil may care comic daring (Christopher Walken, and many others at the right place and time), at any rate this film is only remarkable in that despite having every reason, including the absence of a basic humanism that you hope for, I reluctantly recommend "Mr. Brooks," as a comment on how bad mainstream adult film has gotten.  It's stars on their way down that grab could-be witty material and suck the life out of it, plain and simple, but there's the bottle, rattling on again.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 08, 2007, 12:53:32 AM
Deranged is more like it.  Anyone who takes such an active role in the Scientology Church has to have a couple loose screws.  I remember when Dennis Weaver went over the top with that thing, completely losing all sense of rationality.  There is something about that church that seems to drive its parishioners (if you can call them that) nuts.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 08, 2007, 09:34:54 AM
Bot,

while I share your glum assessment of mainstream film, I must have found more of a twinkle in Mr. Brooks eye than you did.  You comment that the killing...

"is disturbingly taken almost for granted in this film in what I can only call an immoral way...."

struck me as amoral, rather than immoral.  Amoral, because Mr. Brooks really captures the notion of living in two worlds.  In one, killing is heinous, and the part of him that is anchored there is desperately seeking to stay there, do the 12 steps, and so on.  In the other, killing is what the inner psycho is hardwired to do, and morality is viewed much as the agnostic may view religion -- it's fine for most people, but I just can't get it to mesh at all with the way I work.

I thought it was clever, in setting up the split in Mr. Brooks, to have much of the intuition and ability to read people lie with Mr. Hurt, as if the split is between cerebral hemispheres and Mr. Brooks is dully linear and left-brained, while his alter ego commands the groovier right brain.  I got the sense that right-brain Brooks, while obsessing over his bisques and glazes, somehow depended on left-brain Hurt for that little spark of inspiration that good pottery demands.  Perhaps that is a cliche, dividing up a split mind that way, but I hadn't seen it played out this way, and so I found Hurt's whole shtick less dismal than you apparently did.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 08, 2007, 09:36:38 AM
Reverse "left" and "right" brained in the last part of the last paragraph above.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 08, 2007, 09:38:07 AM
Deranged is more like it.  Anyone who takes such an active role in the Scientology Church has to have a couple loose screws.  I remember when Dennis Weaver went over the top with that thing, completely losing all sense of rationality.  There is something about that church that seems to drive its parishioners (if you can call them that) nuts.
I can't respect any religion that advertises in Popular Mechanics.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 08, 2007, 03:04:32 PM
And what about

"oh, to speak on one's feet / to beat on one's brain /
the popular mechanics are at it again..."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 08, 2007, 08:07:10 PM
I meant to say that the director of "Mr. Brooks" has a lot going for him, he made a "good" movie, which, when you are juggling a Demi Moore divorce backstory and other tangents/plot lines, and seeming to juggle them quite to the liking of most and only to the exasperation of somebody who thinks that some of what happened despite being impossible should also have been played silly, no prob, just that if Costner doesn't bring in the wit that he doesn't have, you don't get to make fun of him, who is supposed to be at least on the outside a control freak barely holding it together, except it's no prob for Brooksy, which also doesn't gel unless the central caveat is a, you know, movie joke, so anyway, that and the fact that he was running a "box company," not exactly a boutique family operation, most of it was implausible and of the "get high and type" variety, which is also fine so long as you remember that it's Friday night and all people want is a decent freak-out and some wit.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 08, 2007, 11:01:13 PM
Plus:  Cast Bill Pullman, Winona Ryder, make it "one of the dot.com's that made it--who knew we'd be here now babe" and Ribisi as bad Brooks ("I kind of want to ___ your daughter, I mean, our wife, this is so much fun..."), and in the Dane Cook role Ian MacKellan as a sort of shut in at a retirement home, in a wheelchair, controlling Mr. Brooks, making him push him around because of a photograph and a bit of imagination...vs....

SPOILERS

The much too convenient Rite Aid moment and "I'll bet he put the disk in the safety deposit box at his usual bank," lol, you kill me with your brilliance Brooksy...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 09, 2007, 11:51:11 AM
I thought "Lord Of War" was kind of silly.  Nicolas Cage sells guns in bulk to all of these ruthless killer dictators, etc., and they just say "okay, thanks for the guns, here's your $$$"...

Huh?  If they're really ruthless killer dictators, why don't they just say "thanks for the guns" and then shoot him?  Or just take the guns and shoot him without even saying thanks?

I have something off topic (as far as Mr.Brooks is concerned). Let me introduce Prince Bandar and why  Saudis for instance do not shoot arms dealers.  It will become self-evident as you read as much as you care to since the story just broke.  Bandar Bush, you know him well, don't you?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/baefiles/story/0,,2099077,00.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 09, 2007, 11:55:35 AM
Ps. He's the nice fuzzy little guy, the kind we used to call a "Teddy Bear" because girls would always hug them, when they arrived at a bar, either way, the girls arrived, or he arrived.

But you probably remember seeing him as his residence was right across the street from where the Bushes hang out -- so he would drop in now and then and thus got his name of Bandar Bush, one of the stars of Michael Moore's,Fahrenheit 9/11


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 09, 2007, 07:42:34 PM
Tangentially related to movies is the frat-boy humor game of "Edwards 40's Hands," where as I understand it a college male has one 40 oz. beer duct-taped to each of his hands, and then it goes from there.  I guess it could be considered "hazing," or even "fun," just wanted you to know what the kids are up to.....I kind of want to "You Tube" it but the visual was almost enough to make me nose my beer anyway when I first heard about it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 10, 2007, 06:48:49 PM
I played that game once... later that night, I ate a whole bowl of tartar sauce because I thought it was clam chowder.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 10, 2007, 08:34:48 PM
There was once a Malt Liquor named "Crazy Horse," which was said to embody all of the wild and unbridled spirit of it's namesake, and if you think you've seen somebody dance with wolves, you should've seen him call "Tango w/ 'Crazy Horse'".....not a pretty sight.....one 40 is designed to shitface the middle-aged or even mid-20's urban male, white college kids this is a dangerous game for.....plus you can't zip down your pants which is the first and most uncivil blow.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 10, 2007, 08:37:17 PM
http://www.40ozmaltliquor.com/archive/crazyhorse.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 11, 2007, 07:29:33 AM
It is nice to see Tom Davenport films on DVD,

http://www.davenportfilms.com/pages/main_behindthescenespage.html

but at $40 a pop, they aren't going to have a very high turnover.  I saw a couple of his films years ago at the Biograph in DC.  I finally remembered the name of the theatre, sgrobin.  Mutzmag and one other, which now eludes me.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 11, 2007, 10:52:05 AM
I caught a little bit of "Axe" (alternate title = "Greed") last night.... WOW.  Remember when, after watching "Dazed And Confused", you were like, yeah, that Jason London guy is pretty good, I bet he'll have a good career, etc.  I can't remember if that was before or after "The Man In The Moon" with young Reese Witherspoon, but either way, there was a time when Jason London's prospects for an impressive career as a movie actor could be described as promising. 

"Axe" looks like an Andy Sidaris movie, except with half the production value.  It looks like what a movie would probably look like if the posters in this forum were given like $125,000 or so to make the movie ourselves. Of course, that's assuming no one here has ever held a camera or written a script or done anything related to making a movie.  If I'm wrong about that, then I take back that last statement. 

I couldn't even concentrate on the movie, because I just kept wondering what Jason London thinks about when he's reflecting on his career.  Hopefully he doesn't give a crap - hopefully he's just happy to be getting checks now and again, and never really aspired to be a bona fide movie star, etc.

Anyways, if there are any aspiring movie makers out there, wondering if you're ever going to get a shot at making your movie, then take heart - they made "Axe". 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 11, 2007, 11:05:43 AM
Axe sounds intriguing.  I must find this film and watch it several times.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Lhoffman on June 11, 2007, 11:32:21 AM
"Axe"....direct to DVD?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/movies/homevideo/10mcgr.html?_r=1&ref=movies&oref=slogin


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 11, 2007, 11:50:05 AM
As to Jason London, I guess he's probably a millionaire, but I don't really know......he's on the line when you are playing "'Dazed and Confused':  Count the Millionaires."

Zelly and Affmo and Matthew Mc___ are obvious, but then you get to Cole Hauser, and you're like, huh, I wonder what they gave Cole Hauser for "Papparazzi," or, yeah, what about whatchamacallit the HORROR ENSEMBLE one where he plays a seasoned spelunker.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 11, 2007, 11:52:27 AM
Oh, and now that I cheated, Nicky Katt, Adam Goldberg, and Milla Jovovich are all surely MILLIONAIRES.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 11, 2007, 11:59:04 AM
Millionaires?

Parker Posey - Tough one, she could be a big spender, but I'll go yes

Adam Goldberg - mark it

Milla Jovovich - Doesn't she still work for Revlon or something?  If so, I'll go yes

Tony Rapp - probably not?

Nicky Katt - If talent were $$$ he'd be loaded, but where has he been?  I'll guess no

Marissa Ribisi - Married to Beck... mark it

Rory Cochrane - I don't see how






Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 11, 2007, 12:03:03 PM
...Nicky Katt...surely MILLIONAIRES.

How?  What was his biggestpaying gig?  "Boston Public"? 

I mean, as bad as Cole Hauser is, surely he's gotten bigger checks than Nicky Katt.  I mean, didn't CH play the lead in "Poseidon"?  Sure, the movie bombed, but I would still think that CH's check for that movie would exceed all the checks NK's gotten since "The Way Of The Gun", BHWDIK?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 11, 2007, 12:22:27 PM
Is "Axe" an addition to the Films With Three-Letter Hand Tools for Titles genre, like, say, "Saw" ?  An upcoming remake of "Awl" has also piqued my interest.

I'm trying to decide if I'd rather remove my own foot with an axe or a saw.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 11, 2007, 12:26:56 PM
Is "Axe" an addition to the Films With Three-Letter Hand Tools for Titles genre, like, say, "Saw" ?  An upcoming remake of "Awl" has also piqued my interest.

I'm trying to decide if I'd rather remove my own foot with an axe or a saw.


I think I've seen the Adz for that....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 11, 2007, 12:28:30 PM
I was thinking mark it Nicky Katt under the impression he was a regular on one of the Special Victim/CSI or whatever deals, don't know how I got that in my head, but I thought "TV money" was big, like $100K an episode for the lead in something like "Boston Public," but I don't really know.

I think it was Thomas Jane in Poseidon, but I'm not really sure...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 11, 2007, 12:29:38 PM
To previous:  The "buzz" is really good...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 11, 2007, 01:21:03 PM
"Axe"....direct to DVD?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/movies/homevideo/10mcgr.html?_r=1&ref=movies&oref=slogin

Lhoffman, thanks for the tip.  And apparenty there are many more movies I must see over and over again.


Title: Dazed and Confused
Post by: Dzimas on June 11, 2007, 02:48:41 PM
I enjoyed Dazed and Confused very much, but Jason London didn't have to work very hard in that movie.  For that matter, neither did anyone with the possible exception of the intellectual brat pack who tried in vain to make sense of the situation. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 11, 2007, 05:04:33 PM
I thought McCaugnahey and Affleck did a lot to get noticed, who could've guessed that shortly thereafter they would be among the sexiest men on the planet.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 12:17:04 AM
That surprised me too, but as far as Affleck was concerned, Good Will Hunting was the movie that put him on the map.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2007, 12:49:28 AM
nah

mallrats


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 12:53:35 AM
I see that Mr. Brooks was no match for the combined starpower of Oceans Thirteen.  Sounds like they've pushed the brat pack scenario one too many movies though.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 12, 2007, 10:27:58 AM
Don't even get me started on the Ocean sequels.  "11" wasn't too bad, but "12" was a wretched mess, with camera work that would make Chuck Yeager get motion sick and heave his popcorn.  In "12" they try to steal something from a castle that is worth a couple mill, but use about ten million dollars worth of high-tech hydraulic jacks to slightly lift the whole castle in order to get in without tripping the alarms.  Don Cheadle's attempts to talk Brit --- pushed it into the horror genre right there.

Finally saw Sideways --- a good comedy in the odd-coupled buddy tradition.  The neurotic sophisticate on a road trip through wine country with his dufus pal.  One guy is after the finer pleasures, the other's on an ass-hunt.   What could have turned into a turgid and tedious "Dinner with Andre" sort of tabletop comedy instead goes nicely "sideways."   The wine obsession, instead of being pathetic, wins you over and makes you consider embarking on a search for the elusive pinot noir.   Payne is a genius.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 10:34:32 AM
You have to thank Paul Giamatti for that.  Hard to think of anyone else who could have made a role like that work, but oddly enough he got passed over for an Oscar nomination as I remember, and Church got a supporting actor nod.  Go figure?  I heard the sales of Pinot Noir went through the roof as a result of that movie, not to mention a boost in tourism to the Napa Valley.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 12, 2007, 11:06:11 AM
I sort of see how Church got the Oscar nom, but I don't like it.  If Giamatti gets a nom, it's for the lead, and the voters in the Academy will tend to think of the lead as Giamatti doing what he does very well, and he won't quite make the cut.  On the other hand, Church sort of comes out of nowhere (i.e. indie country) and the voters can sort of toss a bone to the independent studios, since it's only a "supporting" role.  The logic stinks, of course.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 12, 2007, 11:24:17 AM
Giamatti should have been nominated for that movie.  The problems that I identified the first time I saw the movie - for instance, the split screen montage of wine country seemed like an intrusive advertisement for the Santa Ynez tourist board - have faded away, but the strength of the screenplay and the performances remain.  Giamatti, Church, Madsen were all fantastic.  As for Oh... well, I kept focusing on her eyebrows.  Or rather, the lack thereof.

Giamatti should have been nominated the year before, too.  I guess no matter what they do, some folks never get nominated as leads.  Which might explain Macy being nominated for Supporting Actor in Fargo.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 12, 2007, 11:37:02 AM
"Lady In The Water" is a mess, obviously, but I still found it watchable, due entirely to Giamatti.  He has a real tear-jerker scene near the end, which is amazing given how ridiculous the movie was. 

I always figured that, in order to get choked up by something you see on screen, you have to be "emotionally invested" (or whatever) in the movie.  I was anything but "invested" as I was watching LITW, but then when Giamatti had his tear-jerker scene near the end, it was like boom, this guy can really act or emote or whatever.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 12, 2007, 11:37:55 AM
...Which might explain Macy being nominated for Supporting Actor in Fargo.

However, it does nothing to explain how Macy lost to ShowMeTheMoney.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 12, 2007, 11:41:31 AM
...Which might explain Macy being nominated for Supporting Actor in Fargo.

However, it does nothing to explain how Macy lost to ShowMeTheMoney.
Some things just defy all logical explanation.  Like Cuba Gooding Jr winning an Oscar, and transubstantiation.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 12, 2007, 12:43:42 PM
The only "Actor" the avoidance of whose movies gives me more pleasure than avoiding Costner's is Keanu "Large Block of Wood" Reeves. 

oh, not even close...  While Kevin Costner is not a particularly talented actor (somewhat one dimensonal), Keanu can;t seem to pull off "any" role, other than his original role of Bill (or Ted...not sure)..

Although I actually like Point Break, there is a Keanu line from this movie that my friends and I still use to signify bad acting wherever, and whenever, found.   

Keanu:  "I...am an...F...B...I...agent"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 12, 2007, 12:50:46 PM
Sideways did indeed create a "rush" on Pinot Noir and I am always subtly amused when I see how neophytes moved from Merlot to Pinot Noir after hearing that it was somehow "uncool" to like Merlot.  Particularly amusing when someone chooses a poor example of Pinot Noir over a relatively sophisticated bottle of Merlot without realizing their gaffe...

It's fun to trace the "popular" wine over the last 30 years to see how and why the American palate has evolved...how they have quite literally been led by the bit to what they are drinking now...

...present company excluded...of course...  :)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2007, 12:58:07 PM
Sideways did indeed create a "rush" on Pinot Noir and I am always subtly amused when I see how neophytes moved from Merlot to Pinot Noir after hearing that it was somehow "uncool" to like Merlot.  Particularly amusing when someone chooses a poor example of Pinot Noir over a relatively sophisticated bottle of Merlot without realizing their gaffe...

It's fun to trace the "popular" wine over the last 30 years to see how and why the American palate has evolved...how they have quite literally been led by the bit to what they are drinking now...

...present company excluded...of course...  :)


Poor, sophisticated to who?

Pompous ass


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 12, 2007, 01:20:55 PM
Geez, I shoulda popped in Sideways last night.  Got it from a sale table, but have yet to watch.   However – I did watch a flick last night that I liked a lot:  Free Enterprise.   I want to watch it again, to see if it’s as funny as I thought, or if it just hit me funny at the time.

Free Enterprise is the story of two geeks, one played by Eric McCormack, approaching their 30th birthdays.  Since they’re Sci-Fi geeks and therefore fans of Logan’s Run (among other things), the 30th birthday issue does not bode well and one in particular (McCormack) is having a genuine crisis about it.  The two geek friends work in “the business” – just barely – in LA, but each aspires to fully use their geek powers to do something meaningful with his life. 

The two guys also have William Shatner as an imaginary friend; then they meet him in a bookstore and become real friends with the real Shatner.  Shatner gives the guys something – perspective, encouragement -- and the guys give Shatner companionship and possibly a way to produce Julius Caesar as a six-hour rap musical with Shatner playing all the parts. Except Calpurnia, I think.

The movie is loaded with pop culture references from Star Trek, Logan’s Run, and Blade Runner to Basic Instinct, Casablanca and Laura.  And I have to say, I laughed my ass off at some of the jokes and/or references, and I now really, truly love William Shatner.  He played himself perfectly – which I guess is a gimme; but he made himself funny, sympathetic and sort of desperate/pathetic all at the same time.  The guy must have a serious sense of humor, which I guess everyone already knew anyway.

Maybe Free Enterprise resonated with me because I went to school with some serious Trekkers (“we’re serious about this, don’t call us Trekkies”) who could convert a date into a Stardate at the drop of a hat and who wore calculators on their belts like phasers.  But the movie rang true, and managed to poke fun – affectionate fun – at a group of people I may know just a little too well, and also at pop culture in general.

Even the credits were funny, with totally irrelevant stuff thrown in among the cast and production titles.  Oh – you do get to see Shatner do a scene from Julius Caesar as a rap, and it’s really fun.  I liked it a lot, anyway. 

I’ve probably done an injustice to Free Enterprise by semi-raving about it; but I really enjoyed this movie a lot, and feel like I stumbled on a gem.  Or at least a cubic zirconium or something. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 01:27:16 PM
"Some things just defy all logical explanation."

Not really, it's the creation of a commodity in a town where youth and good looks are routinely rewarded.  Now you have "Oscar Winner Cuba Gooding, Jr." or "Oscar Winner Marisa Tomei" or "Oscar Winner Mira Sorvino....."

Even though none have emerged as box-office draws and all are B-listers when you can't get somebody better, younger, cooler, or hotter from TV or whatever, they are all more attractive in a superficial way as something you can sell unlike Macy or Giamatti.  That's the logic anyway, I think.
 
That's my vaugely Marxist explanation which may or may not hold water.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 01:34:09 PM
While I've never been able to figure out the appeal of Sorvino, I like Tomei, especially in My Cousin Vinnie. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 01:34:18 PM
I know very little about wine but always drank Pinot Noir, and would drink any $10 bottle of Pinot Noir over however expensive however subtle a Merlot you offer.  That may make me an idiot about wine, but tastewise I've just liked Noirs more, and don't like Chardonnay or Pinot Grigio but like Sauvignon Blanc, I mean, I agree with the proposition that Pinot Noir tastes better, like some people prefer Coke over Pepsi, and vice-versa, but the idea that Noir makes you more of a wine aficianado is silly as is the assertion that I could show you a Merlot that would blow the doors off of the average Pinot Noir.  So stupid.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 01:37:24 PM
Sorvino was really good in "Mimic;" no...wait I'm thinking of the bug and that clickety-clack sound that he made--now that guy was good.   Just when you think you've gotten away, "clackety-click," EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKK


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 01:38:03 PM
It seems that the supporting actor/actress goes to an up and coming talent (or not so talented) or someone who has been overlooked in better roles.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 12, 2007, 01:42:50 PM
"Some things just defy all logical explanation."

Not really, it's the creation of a commodity in a town where youth and good looks are routinely rewarded.  Now you have "Oscar Winner Cuba Gooding, Jr." or "Oscar Winner Marisa Tomei" or "Oscar Winner Mira Sorvino....."

Even though none have emerged as box-office draws and all are B-listers when you can't get somebody better, younger, cooler, or hotter from TV or whatever, they are all more attractive in a superficial way as something you can sell unlike Macy or Giamatti.  That's the logic anyway, I think.
 
That's my vaugely Marxist explanation which may or may not hold water.

Doesn't

Not close

The prettyboy (and gal) actress needs to be that much BETTER to get a nod.  Their looks work against them when those who judge judge their work.

I suppose it has happened here with you - or maybe you can tell us what you did not like about their Oscar-winning roles.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 12, 2007, 01:45:04 PM
I know very little about wine but always drank Pinot Noir, and would drink any $10 bottle of Pinot Noir over however expensive however subtle a Merlot you offer.  That may make me an idiot about wine, but tastewise I've just liked Noirs more, and don't like Chardonnay or Pinot Grigio but like Sauvignon Blanc, I mean, I agree with the proposition that Pinot Noir tastes better, like some people prefer Coke over Pepsi, and vice-versa, but the idea that Noir makes you more of a wine aficianado is silly as is the assertion that I could show you a Merlot that would blow the doors off of the average Pinot Noir.  So stupid.



I used to know a guy who started, owned and ran a (legitimate) vineyard, and his take was  --  If you like a wine, it's good. Drink it and enjoy it. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 12, 2007, 01:54:45 PM
Harrie, regarding

"Geez, I shoulda popped in Sideways last night."

Just don't pop it in sideways.  Hard on the machine.

I like a good Sauvignon Blanc.  I like a good Cabernet.  Though I don't think life is a Cabernet, old chum.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 12, 2007, 01:57:17 PM
I like the chewy stuff -- Shiraz/Syrah, some Riojas.  And of course a cava for any ol' occasion.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 02:00:21 PM
I'm partial to Brunello myself.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 02:10:02 PM
I always thought Merlot was for people who didn't like Cabernet Sauvignon.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 02:17:11 PM
Part of "Sideways" is also that Giamatti's character uses the "sophistication" of wine consumption in a manner of denial regarding his alcoholism.  Giamatti said that he always assumed the guy he was playing was an alcoholic.

Similarly, I know beer snobs who sneer at my consumption of mainstream beer like "Bud Light" or "Miller Lite," they seem to think that if you consume Sierra Nevada Pale Ale you are demonstrating a willingness to spend money for something superior, but most are under no delusions about the purpose of any beer.

From my youth I learned that Natural Light is the beer with a taste for food, and, while I know that to only be a marketing slogan, I have always taken them at their word that Natural Light is an appropriate ale for any meal.  Strangely, not all restaurants carry that beer, out of ignorance I imagine.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 12, 2007, 08:36:28 PM
I always thought Merlot was for people who didn't like Cabernet Sauvignon.

I would say merlot is for people that were drinking white zinfandel and then "heard" that drinking red wine was somehow more sophisticated (and God knows we need to be sophisticated) and therefore got herded over to Merlot...  Hence the strong put downs in sideways.  My earlier post was only to say yes, but, there are some really good Merlots out there also...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...   I don't have a problem with people that actually "like" white zinfandel for that matter.

I agree with those that say drink what tastes good to you.  We're all entitled to our opinions...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 09:29:48 PM
Yeah, or when they said red wine is good for you--but then they tell you to have two glasses when it's far easier just to drink the entire bottle, or two bottles if with company.  An aspirin and glass of water after an entire bottle of red wine or so should prevent the headache one often hears about from the over-consumption of red wine.  The over-indulgence will not have twice the cardiological benefits as I initially suspected, but was pleased to learn that the liver is a resilient organ that should be challenged regularly as scheduling permits.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 12, 2007, 09:35:06 PM
Yeah, or when they said red wine is good for you--but then they tell you to have two glasses when it's far easier just to drink the entire bottle, or two bottles if with company.  An aspirin and glass of water after an entire bottle of red wine or so should prevent the headache one often hears about from the over-consumption of red wine.  The over-indulgence will not have twice the cardiological benefits as I initially suspected, but was pleased to learn that the liver is a resilient organ that should be challenged regularly as scheduling permits.


:)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 12, 2007, 09:42:19 PM
For those of you that like Pinot Noir (and I would include myself in that category), you might try a good Beaujolais some time.  This is typically a Gamay grape which is also a delicate, thin skinned grape.

Many share the same overall light bodied quality that Pinot drinkers seem to like.

Or, instead of domestic Pinot, find the Burgandy version--particularly from Cote-d'Or ...mmm...yummy


Hey, I guess we need a "Wine" section now ...we're getting off track of "movies"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 12, 2007, 09:56:27 PM
I like the Oregon and Washington Pinots which I just sample at random base on the appearance of the label--bold marketing not a plus--and the price, between $11-17 or so, ignorance about wine is fun for me because of the surprises and I don't care enough to care about the grape or the people involved in wine production and don't subscribe to "Wine Muncher" magazines and hate the guys at Gourmand.com and was banned from their chatroom.

Yeah, I always thought that the Louis-Jadot or the other common cheap Beaujolais were the best valued wines for recreational drinking, but lean towards something more substantial with hints of oak and apricot when dining, a wine that comes on like a saucy harlot and punches like a truckdriver, forget the label, when money is tight.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 12, 2007, 10:06:42 PM
J

I think your approach is a great one.  My wife and I frequently go out and buy a bunch of bottles of reasonably priced wine that we have not tried before and then have blind taste tests.  For the winner, we go back and buy 6-12 bottles for later enjoyment when friends are over...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 12, 2007, 11:02:24 PM
Quote
...a wine that comes on like a saucy harlot and punches like a truckdriver.... 


jbottle, If Gourmand.com really exists, and if you really were bounced from there, they're nuts.  Because right now, I really, really want to try that wine.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 11:45:03 PM
I don't know if one is a "beer snob" for preferring better beers, but when you taste a real Czech Budweiser, it is pretty hard to ever drink an American Bud or Bud Lite again, unless it is very, very cold. 


Title: Strange Brew
Post by: Dzimas on June 12, 2007, 11:48:41 PM
But, speaking of funny beer movies,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086373/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 12:47:13 AM
I don't know if one is a "beer snob" for preferring better beers, but when you taste a real Czech Budweiser, it is pretty hard to ever drink an American Bud or Bud Lite again, unless it is very, very cold. 

Is this anything like our Weiss beer?  In summertime,you float a lemon slice on top, or pour the beer over a raspberry syrup.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 02:07:31 AM
I assume you are referring to Hefeweizen, or white beer, madupont, which is common in Central Europe.  I prefer pilsners myself.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 08:47:35 AM
Gee, dzimas, somehow I always picture you drinking Kwas.

My days as a pinot drinker predate Sideways by a decade or so.  The thing to pay attention to is not the price or the vinyard, but where it is from.  Russian River, Santa Ynez, Willamette....  Cote d'or....

kid -

Cuba Gooding Jr.'s Oscar was for a one note charater any competent actor could have pulled off just as well, if not better.  That he beat out William H. Macy's great performance in Fargo is a sin. 

Except the Fargo people slummed Macy.  It should have been a lead.  I would have nominated Harve Presnell for Fargo, personally.  I've always loved that performance.  "Whatcha watching, Wade?" "Gophers.  Rrrrrr."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 13, 2007, 09:31:36 AM
LOL

Yeah - anyone could have done Tidwell - heh.

Just not as perfect as Gooding - sorry.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 10:17:14 AM
LOL

Yeah - anyone could have done Tidwell - heh.

Just not as perfect as Gooding - sorry.
Gooding did nothing any competent actor couldn't've done, and a great actor could have done it better.  The performance defines average.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 13, 2007, 10:26:27 AM
Cuba Gooding...about four years ago saw/ met him.  South Beach...having  lunch, at an outdoor cafe, really friendly, not one to avoid the public at all.  Very much a ham "on" and lovin' attention.  As an actor it seems he doesn't stray too much from who he is IMHO.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 10:46:51 AM
You forget, whiskey, that Gooding was cast along side Tom Cruise, which made him look even better.  I loved the look on Tom's face when he lost out to Geoffrey Rush.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 10:48:56 AM
I assume you are referring to Hefeweizen, or white beer, madupont, which is common in Central Europe.  I prefer pilsners myself.

That is a question that recently came up at another venue when discussing European politics and society. Although the old rules may apply to imports of what we imbibe, where are the boundaries any more to the European Union?

I was tempted to refer to weiss beer as a "pilsner", when asking my question since you had been referring to a Czech beer; how would you describe the differences among all three categorically?  When familiar with the water brewing the American product, I have always avoided drinking the big names that made the beer barons wealthy and gave them lovely homes which I appreciate historically.

Our preference was to go for the small upper mid-state brewery because we preferred to drink Augsburger at home. The recipe came along with the peasants when they emigrated in the 1800s but their recipe went back to 400 years earlier.   The braumeister took one look at the rushing waters available and said it was time to get out the kettles.

West of the Rhine, along the Moselle is our conventional summer white wine the Piesporter Michelsberg,later Spätlese (which Thomas Jefferson found out about in 1778)and Auslese in the Palatinate.


        


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 13, 2007, 10:51:47 AM
LOL

Yeah - anyone could have done Tidwell - heh.

Just not as perfect as Gooding - sorry.
Gooding did nothing any competent actor couldn't've done, and a great actor could have done it better.  The performance defines average.

Critics of course say you're dead wrong.  But don't let this stop ya.

Entire movie brilliantly cast.  Lipnicki......Regina King.................all of em except maybe O'Connell, but he was passable as "Cush".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 10:54:05 AM
Gee, dzimas, somehow I always picture you drinking Kwas.

My days as a pinot drinker predate Sideways by a decade or so.  The thing to pay attention to is not the price or the vinyard, but where it is from.  Russian River, Santa Ynez, Willamette....  Cote d'or....



or my personal favorite... The Carneros region of Napa Valley.  For my taste there is no finer region in the US


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 10:54:54 AM
Alexander Valley also gets a lot of play, but I'm still not there yet...


Title: Re: Strange Brew
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 10:57:21 AM
But, speaking of funny beer movies,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086373/

Yes that was a funny movie in its day.   For Canadian overkill humor though, I think I prefer the one where the guys sneak up over to invade Canada...can't think of the title now...  Any help?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 11:02:53 AM
Maddie, hefeweizens use wheat as their base, whereas lagers use malted barley. Wheat beers also have a different fermentation process and tend to taste fresher.  Pilsners add rice or corn to lighten the barley taste, giving them a crisper taste.  The true Pilsners come from Pilsen in the Czech Republic, although a lot of beers have co-opted the title.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 11:04:10 AM
Any help?

Canadian Bacon


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 13, 2007, 12:09:51 PM
......Regina King...

Regina King is money in the bank.  I just saw her in "Year Of The Dog" and you just can't take your eyes off of the screen when she's on it.  It's not her beauty (although she is very beautiful) - it's just that she's very good.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 12:16:31 PM
Maddie, hefeweizens use wheat as their base, whereas lagers use malted barley. Wheat beers also have a different fermentation process and tend to taste fresher.  Pilsners add rice or corn to lighten the barley taste, giving them a crisper taste.  The true Pilsners come from Pilsen in the Czech Republic, although a lot of beers have co-opted the title.

Thanks! i needed that, "Refresher course".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 13, 2007, 12:29:27 PM

Critics of course say you're dead wrong. 

I thought "Jerry Maguire" was excruciating, but a lot of people liked it, so WDIK?

The whole Cameron Crowe unctuousness really turns my stomach, from:

The scene in "Say Anything" when "In Your Eyes" is playing on the car radio with Ione Skye and John Cusack sitting in the back of the car, and she whispers to him, "Listen to the woooorrrrds....," (oh, thanks for the reminder Mr. Crowe, you're right, now that I'm listening to the words of the song, this scene is really powerful)

to

The group-song scene in "Almost Famous", in which they sing "Tiny Dancer"

to

Any frame you pick from "Jerry Maguire", but none moreso than the neck-injury scene during the football game.  Rod Tidwell catches the touchdown pass and gets hit in the process, and lands on his back and lays motionless while the nation watches in horror and they bring out the stretchers and everyone thinks he's paralyzed, then after we get that for a while, he jumps up and starts doing backflips and everyone cheers, etc.   Ummm, no.  If a football player faked a neck injury just for dramatic effect, to punctuate how happy he is to have scored a touchdown, no, that would not be good, that would not be something to cheer for.  However, in Cameron Crowe-world, it's perfect and something we can all agree is heartwarming, etc.

Anyways, that, combined with my being blown away by William H. Macy in "Fargo", adds up to me not thinking much of the Gooding performance in "Jerry Maguire", but that's just my perception.  I guess I'm just plain dead wrong about all of it, since critics generally liked "Jerry Maguire" and Gooding's performance in it, but oh well.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 12:48:53 PM

Canadian Bacon

that's the one...  much more creative than Strange brew


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 01:04:45 PM
Maybe, but I liked Strange Brew better.  You know that Bacon was directed by Michael Moore?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 01:05:45 PM
yes, on the flip side of the one-dimensional conversation we wer all having earlier...

William H Macy is a fantastic character actor.

or how about Gary Oldman?  THere is a guy that has phenomenal range and doesn't seem to get that much recognition.

Or Philip Seymore Hoffman is a guy that I also think is terrific -- but since he has now received the Oscar, you can't exactly call him underrated...   But, you watch State & Main, then Along Came Polly, then Capote (and even Mission Impossible III) and you can't help but go "wow" at the range...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 01:07:44 PM
I thought "Jerry Maguire" was excruciating, but a lot of people liked it, so WDIK?

I couldn't stand the movie either.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 01:08:40 PM
Or Magnolia.  Hoffman's also going to be in the upcoming movie I second most want to see: Synecdoche, New York.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 01:09:29 PM
I thought "Jerry Maguire" was excruciating, but a lot of people liked it, so WDIK?

I couldn't stand the movie either.
Not high on my list either, but I admit an intense dislike for the porcine-faced lead actress.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 13, 2007, 01:14:17 PM
P. Hoffman also made the "Ripley" movie all that more entertaining. 
Why Porcine was cast as Beatrix Potter is a mystery.  Cold Mountain was another movie that certainly didn't benefit from her performance, and didn't she get an Oscar for that?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 01:26:14 PM
Jerry MacGuire was the only movie I ever liked Renee Zellweger in actually...   I don't care for her much , but somehow I thought she was well suited for that role...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 13, 2007, 01:35:30 PM
I do agree...and as much as Chicago was reputed to have been extremely "edited"  her dancing/performance wasn't too awful, though she was a Texas (?) cheerleader back in the day...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 13, 2007, 01:39:42 PM
Yeah, Jerry MacGwyer sucked.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 01:48:22 PM
Whiskey...I didn't bother you with that Patrick Wayne quote about being a lawyer earlier did I?

It was just a comedy...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 13, 2007, 01:57:54 PM
Cold Mountain had little to go on, given the book was such a bore. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 02:17:40 PM
P. Hoffman also made the "Ripley" movie all that more entertaining. 
Why Porcine was cast as Beatrix Potter is a mystery.  Cold Mountain was another movie that certainly didn't benefit from her performance, and didn't she get an Oscar for that?

I would agree about this being one of Philip Seymour Hoffman's better roles. Until, I saw the John Malkovich version of Ripley from a European point of view. I always say that I'm going to read the Patricia  Highsmith books but then I never do.

At one time I told Whiskey that the most impressive Hoffman performance was in a film that I think was actually made for tv, in which, Paul Newman plays the fool and Ed Harris, son of a fool, known as: Empire Falls.

Hoffman's role was very sensitively done about a man who would have used to be said to have "sensibilities".

So, there's another book that I have to read. Considerably more contemporary.

Do you recall the title of the film in which Hoffman played opposite a homophobic Robert De Niro  who needs not voice-training(which is what  his neighbour Hoffman teaches him) but I suppose what would be called "vocal therapy"  possibly after a stroke(?) to regain his speaking capability ?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 13, 2007, 02:23:01 PM
Flawless.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 13, 2007, 02:39:33 PM
Empire Falls Hoffman was truly a gem there, again.  And, I also viewed Malkovich's Ripley, but did not find that movie (as a whole as)particularly appealing, though Malkovich's edgy performance was outstanding...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 13, 2007, 02:49:47 PM
                                    BRANDT
                         Mr. Lebowski is prepared to make a
                         generous offer to you to act as
                         courier, once we get instructions for
                         the money.

                                     DUDE
                         Why me, man?

                                     BRANDT
                         He believes that the culprits might
                         be the very people who, uhhh, "soiled"
                         your rug, and you're in a unique
                         position to confirm or disconfirm
                         that suspicion.

                                     DUDE
                         He thinks the carpet-pissers did this?
                         
                                     BRANDT
                         Well Dude, we just don't know.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 13, 2007, 03:39:19 PM
I think this is the fifth vote for finding Jerry Maguire to be a frothy pile of vomit.  (Though personally, I have nothing against Ms. Zellwegger.  She had a really nice dog she used to take everywhere with her ('til he passed away, I believe), so she can't be all bad. IMHO anyway.)

Also of use when choosing a wine -- if the blurb on the back of the label is all about the sunset over the vineyard, the loons in the nearby lake, or the proprietor's three adorable children, keep looking.  Try for a label that mentions old vines or actually talks about the wine, growing conditions, vineyard location, vintner's credentials, etc.  Just .02 from this wino.

This concludes catch-up mode.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 13, 2007, 05:43:47 PM
She did have a sweetness that came through in that movie even if the whole thing seemed contrived and ultimately worthless.  It seems like such an accident that she would somehow rocket to super-stardom, I mean, she seems like such a shrinking violet, she must wonder sometimes how the hell she got $30M.   Good old Ben never wondered too hard, and as calculated a move as "Good Will Hunting" was, he never giggled, just kept the blinders on and kept cashing the checks, no prob.  It was a complete and total bust out of the star system, well, no, I'll say brilliantly excectuted.  Say what you like about Damon's relative intelligence about building a career without embarassments, it was a far riskier move financially, but also has worked out just fine.  Affleck is also smart but depending on how you look at it, either fearless or riddled with insecurity that this next movie would be the flop that revealed the scam, the point was to get the money, and he did that like a pro.  I only wonder if he's stupid enough to blow the entire war chest on a run for Governor of Mass./Penn., I forget which.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 13, 2007, 06:17:05 PM
I think this is the fifth vote for finding Jerry Maguire to be a frothy pile of vomit.  (Though personally, I have nothing against Ms. Zellwegger.  She had a really nice dog she used to take everywhere with her ('til he passed away, I believe), so she can't be all bad. IMHO anyway.)

Also of use when choosing a wine -- if the blurb on the back of the label is all about the sunset over the vineyard, the loons in the nearby lake, or the proprietor's three adorable children, keep looking.  Try for a label that mentions old vines or actually talks about the wine, growing conditions, vineyard location, vintner's credentials, etc.  Just .02 from this wino.

This concludes catch-up mode.

5 idiots

Just like the Bush boards.


Title: non sequitor
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 13, 2007, 06:51:13 PM
It's funny that political discussions used to lead to name calling...

now it seems that name calling leads to political discussion...  I've seen it a few times in the last couple of weeks by different people here in various topics.

Apparently if someone has a different opinion than you about anything, it must make them a conservative (or a liberal--whichever is the opposite of the respondent) also.



people are just different and they are always going to have different opinions about various issues.  Sometimes those people will feel the same as you on some subjects and sometimes they will feel differently than you on others. 

That's why there is so much grey in life...and not just black and white.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 13, 2007, 07:17:02 PM
5 idiots

Just like the Bush boards.

I'm flattered.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 14, 2007, 12:09:21 AM
Remember when Damon and Affleck were going to re-invent the way we look at movies and create their on "dreamworks" production?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 14, 2007, 12:13:52 AM
I remember Affleck donning the first superhero suit available to him and not making the same mistake Baldwin did with the Clancy series.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 14, 2007, 09:33:49 AM
And then Jude Law asked Matt Damon, "Do you even really like jeyazz?"

Of course you've (you royal you've, the editorial) got to be an idiot not to like "Jerry Maguire", but how does that fit in to The Bush Boards?  Is not liking "Jerry Maguire" the equivalent of not liking Bush, in terms of being an indicator of idiocy?  Or maybe it's the other way around?  Or is it more like "Yeah, I live in a blue/red state, but I still liked/hated 'Jerry Maguire'..."?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 14, 2007, 10:01:38 AM
Oil, how'd you like Year of the Dog, overall?  (or in your overalls, if you find them more comfortable)  I'm seeing it at the U. film theater tonight, but maybe seeing Knocked Up instead depending on whim, caprice, and so on.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 14, 2007, 10:07:48 AM
I saw "YOTD" and liked it a lot, but then again I liked "Chuck & Buck", another Mike White-written movie that a lot of people hated, and everyone in the world seems to love "Knocked Up" (and everyone in the world loved "T40YOV" which I thought was okay but not great), so who knows? 

Either way, report back to us as soon as it's done.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 14, 2007, 10:09:48 AM
I might stop and get an ice cream first.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 14, 2007, 10:33:36 AM
On repeat viewings, the three buddies steal the show, yeah the third act of T40YOV deteriorates into the inevitable date-movie mechanics and goes on a little too long, but with "Wedding Crashers" I thought it was one of the two funniest movies of 2005.  Oh, and the third act is redeemed by the "Age of Aquarius" credit sequence, just great.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 14, 2007, 10:58:10 AM
Yeah, I don't bash "T40YOV" or anything.  It was funny, no doubt about it.  I just mean in terms of "yeah it made me think, etc.," I liked "Chuck & Buck" and "YOTD" more.  And I know, hey, it's a comedy, you're not supposed to think, and that's true, but still. 

And also that's not to suggest that there's any reason for me to compare "T40YV" to "C&B" or "YOTD" other than Barton asking for an opinion on whether he should see "Knocked Up" versus "YOTD".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 14, 2007, 11:09:36 AM
I might stop and get an ice cream first.



"Later on we'll get Ice Cream"


Hobson in the original "Arthur"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 14, 2007, 11:12:02 AM
I'll probably take a beating for bringing this one up, but did anyone watch the film version of "The Importance of Being Ernest" a few years back?

We watched it with four generations of family and everyone enjoyed it (even though for different reasons).  There aren't that many movies you can do that with anymore...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 14, 2007, 11:56:59 AM
Actually, if that's Ernest as in "Hey, Vern..." -- well, count me in as a fan of Jim Varney, if not always of Ernest.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: peloux on June 14, 2007, 02:32:51 PM
>>>I would agree about this being one of Philip Seymour Hoffman's better roles. Until, I saw the John Malkovich version of Ripley from a European point of view. I always say that I'm going to read the Patricia  Highsmith books but then I never do.

I liked "Talented Mr Ripley" so much I went for the book and found it immensely disappointing. A very straightforward but bland style. Highsmith's original story is simpler. Minghella spiced it up quite a bit, adding the characters Meredith and Peter Smith-Kingsley as well as giving us a jazzier ending. (Actually, there is a Peter Smith-Kingsley who is barely mentioned in the novel. Minghella borrowed the name for a brand new character).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 14, 2007, 03:09:35 PM
I'll probably take a beating for bringing this one up, but did anyone watch the film version of "The Importance of Being Ernest" a few years back?

We watched it with four generations of family and everyone enjoyed it (even though for different reasons).  There aren't that many movies you can do that with anymore...

Okay, my bad.  You mean the movie of the Oscar Wilde play, don't you?  No reason to expect a beatin' for watching that, I would think.

Last night we caught most of the remake of Assault on Precinct 13.  It was pretty good, but I'll bet Carpenter's original, which I have not (yet) seen, is better.  Words can not do justice to how much I can't stand Ethan Hawke; yet, I didn't hate him in this one, and could actually bear to watch while he was on screen.  The bad thing -- I called Brian Dennehy for a villain right off the bat and ruined it for the hubby.  Who, by the way, owes an apology to Kate Winslet because he thought Drea DeMatteo was a hagged-out KW (hagged out on purpose, for effect).  I was like "you can't hag anyone out that much, especially KW."  Anyway, despite AoP13 not being the original Carpenter, I'd still call it adequate and give it a thumbs up, especially for being on basic cable (FX, I think).



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 14, 2007, 08:30:13 PM
Harrie

You're giving us far too much ammunition with that latest photo you've put up...   :)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 14, 2007, 08:57:19 PM
Hey, he who smelt it....I didn't use to be harriebutz for nothin' ya know!  Or, to clarify, I think a horse's posterior is a thing of beauty.  Anyone wants to compare me to one, g'head, not a problem.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 15, 2007, 10:04:03 AM
Saw The Last King of Scotland and was wowed, disturbed, etc.  James McEvoy seemed very Dustin Hoffman-esque.  Now deciding whether or not to do the full tour of the Rule of Two and see Hotel Rwanda.

Passed on Year of the Dog.  Read Manola Dhargis review and, not that a review would impede me, but her synopsis alerted me to the dog-dies plot and the whole barrel o' puppies/animal rights/vegan drollery.  I can't take any more.



 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 15, 2007, 10:12:40 AM
My .02 on Hotel R. &  Scotland?  Personally, thought Hotel was the better movie.  Scotland?  Other than the Oscar winning performance?  Just seemed a bit thrown together...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 15, 2007, 10:23:06 AM
LKoS ---yeah, the opening part with Gillian Anderson and the country clinic seemed to detach from the rest of the film -- it was like they tossed in that bus window shot of her later in the film as a kind of plot bandaid.  But, generally, I found it fairly compelling and the acting uniformly high quality.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Eva on June 15, 2007, 10:33:09 AM
hhmm, yeah, I'll grant you that re: the acting.  And it was good to see G. Anderson...  Been awhile since I saw the movie, but there seemed to be just too many scenes that were somehow dis-jointed.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 15, 2007, 10:39:13 AM
...but her synopsis alerted me to the dog-dies plot and the whole barrel o' puppies/animal rights/vegan drollery.   

Doesn't "droll" mean funny?  

Anyways, I read Dargis' review, and she seemed to like "YOTD".  I'm not a puppy lover or an animal rights activist or a vegan, and maybe I'd have seen it differently if I was any of those, but as I saw it, all of that stuff was kind of beside the point of the movie, which I found to be something you don't see often in movies.  Dargis describes it well in the last paragraph of her review:

"You can learn a lot from our movies, like how to hold a gun and blow someone’s head off. It’s more unusual to watch a film in which the central struggle is how to be happy and sane. There’s a touch of the saint in Peggy, true, but what makes me love her is that she’s ridiculously, beautifully human."

It's just the old "it's a study of the human condition" type thing, with a female protagonist about whom there's nothing really extraordinary, who's just trying to live and go to work and be happy.  It reminded me of "Ruby In Paradise" in that sense, except it's nowhere near as boring, thanks to the dozens of funny jokes and side characters.  

Another thing I noticed was that "YOTD" was the first time I have EVER seen a realistic depiction of the nonsense that comes out of a 3- or 4-year old's mouth.  And by that, I don't mean "nonsense" in the sense that my posts are generally nonsensical, or in the sense that the 3- or 4-year old is stating something inaccurately or based on faulty logic or anything.  I mean "nonsense" in that sometimes the words in the questions they ask don't add up to a sentence that makes any sense.

If you're ever around kids for any length of time, you'll know what I mean.  Try as I might, I can't come up with an example, and whenever I hear a kid utter such a nonsensical question or sentence, I kick myself for not having a notepad for writing it down, because I know I'll never be able to recall it later.  

I've seen a million kids in movies, and I've NEVER seen any of them speak realistic nonsensical dialogue until I saw it in "YOTD".  I also enjoyed Molly Shannon's character's response to the nonsensical line spoken by the kid, which is the response you or I or anyone else would give when responding to such a line, which at first a furrowed brow, like "huh," replaced quickly with a postive/cheery-sounding "Yup, uh-huh, that's right..."

I don't mean to make a big deal about it or anything.  I mean, the movie didn't make a big deal out of it.  She was just babysitting her niece, and they were walking into a store or something and the kid asked some question that didn't make any sense, and Molly Shannon responded, and then they moved on to whatever it was that the scene was about.  It's just nice to see a little shred of truth in a movie, and Mike White's writing of dialouge for the 4-year old was exactly that.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 15, 2007, 10:57:47 AM
Oil,

Regarding -- "It's just the old "it's a study of the human condition" type thing, with a female protagonist about whom there's nothing really extraordinary, who's just trying to live and go to work and be happy."  Once in a while, that grabs me, but I'm going to WFV on this one.  It does figure that in a film about someone losing their dog, the whole dog theme will be tangential, unless it's a Disney film.

Realistic child dialog, however, that does have me drooling.  Speaking metaphorically.

Having had two children, I can heartily agree about their penchant for spouting nonsense at that age, stuff like "Emma puts the tails in the blank spot.  Under the roof!  Look!  It's blank and it's not green!  DAAADD!"

I don't know if one can really capture it, without writing it down verbatim as you suggest.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 15, 2007, 11:02:58 AM

Having had two children, I can heartily agree about their penchant for spouting nonsense at that age, stuff like "Emma puts the tails in the blank spot.  Under the roof!  Look!  It's blank and it's not green!  DAAADD!"

I don't know if one can really capture it, without writing it down verbatim as you suggest.

You did a pretty good job there - that one sounds about right. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 15, 2007, 12:10:31 PM
I'd like to say that both of you guys are ridiculously, beatifully human.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 15, 2007, 12:16:17 PM
>>>I would agree about this being one of Philip Seymour Hoffman's better roles. Until, I saw the John Malkovich version of Ripley from a European point of view. I always say that I'm going to read the Patricia  Highsmith books but then I never do.

I liked "Talented Mr Ripley" so much I went for the book and found it immensely disappointing. A very straightforward but bland style. Highsmith's original story is simpler. Minghella spiced it up quite a bit, adding the characters Meredith and Peter Smith-Kingsley as well as giving us a jazzier ending. (Actually, there is a Peter Smith-Kingsley who is barely mentioned in the novel. Minghella borrowed the name for a brand new character).

Yes, Minghella has a habit of adapting liberally. I just talked to teddy of Meander about what he did to The English Patient (which was fine with me). In other words Ondaatje and Highsmith wrote sparser stories that had to be story-boarded up.

I have not even counted all of the Hitchcock adaptations of Patricia Highsmith, nor for that matter looked into all her Ripley as she was first and foremost a mystery writer with a penchant for the psychology of schizophrenia that caught her interest at age eight( a girl after my own heart ).  Perhaps I enjoy that quality in Malkovich (Second City,native)but I am equally impressed with everything Hoffman studies.

Back to Hitchcock; Highsmith is best known for his production of: Strangers on a Train. Scariest thing that I ever, back in my young television viewing years. Stanger than fiction is how Truman Capote inflicted this fame upon her by telling her she had to rewrite it because it had merit. Whereupon she went to Yadoo and did it. I went to Yadoo too, but merely because I found myself dining in the area at Saratoga Springs at some exceptional restaurant either on my way up to Montreal or my way down from there, and therefore could not simply leave town without taking an Autumnal look at Yadoo.   Unfortunately, I saw it in another way, not as the famous patron of renowned writers but as a rather hideous trap that had seen better days; I caught the vibe and was glad that I did submit to the regimen.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 15, 2007, 12:18:18 PM
I'd like to say that both of you guys are ridiculously, beatifully human.

I've always thought of myself as rationally, hideously robotic, BHWDIK?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 15, 2007, 12:24:13 PM

Doesn't "droll" mean funny?  



...droll you should say that...

I think it means, funny-wierd as opposed to funny-haha, although I've seen it used both ways...  and when in reference to a person, seemingly most often used to indicate someone who is a buffoon


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 15, 2007, 12:31:43 PM
I just remember in "The Bad News Bears", Walter Matthau made a comment about Oglethorpe's (the smart kid) lack of baseball talent, to which he replied, "Droll, Mr. Buttermaker"...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 15, 2007, 01:19:09 PM
Jbot, as one of the silicon overlords, I am not flattered by your imputation that I might be "beautifully human." 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 15, 2007, 01:32:04 PM
Just for the record....
droll (dr?l) adj., droll·er, droll·est.
Amusingly odd or whimsically comical.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 15, 2007, 01:42:27 PM
I find that oddly amusing and comically whimsical.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 15, 2007, 07:59:35 PM
Joe Satriani:  First in line?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486576/

The appeal of the "imdb joke" is that nowhere in the address is the title of the movie, so that it either is what you think or something else...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416243/

But what's an old anti-personal trainer like me doing tellin' you all this...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 16, 2007, 11:41:48 PM
Am I the only one who finds "roid rage" jokes flatly unfunny?  I didn't think so...in fact, many personal trainers around the nation have striven long and hard to achieve personal fitness in mind, body, and soul.  Oftentimes, this leads to you being in a toilet stall with another dude injecting steroids into each others ass cheeks.  First, let's dismiss the idea that the practice is borderline homoerotic, no, it's that weird bathroom stall in one of the wings of the FOOD PYRAMID, where the PERSONAL TRAINERS hang out.  Sound of mind and spirit, hey, no quarter my brother, but don't put the load on our friends in the TRAINING COMMUNITY who MAY HAVE STRAYED from the path of HOLISTIC FITNESS.

I'm going to drop a bomb on you.  Hey man, we've all been there with a needle in our asscheek wondering if that clipboard we were carrying around and whatnot really ever meant anything at all to anybody out there.

Well, it did to me.

For reasons that should be obvious, I don't appreciate the spontaneous Barry Bonds joke or the easy laughter that follows.  I feel like the PERSONAL TRAINER COMMUNITY took a shot on the chin and said, yeah, I felt that shot, but nobody PUTS BABY IN A CORNER.  I don't think I'm alone.  Sure, make casual jokes about juicing and "roid rage," let the metaphorical syringes stick where they prick. 

I'm a big tent guy.  Am I anti-juicer?  I'm not qualified to say that, I'm not a medical doctor.  I have a PHD in being me.  So, yeah, I don't think anti-personal trainer rhetoric is appropriate, even in jest.  Am I saying take it easy, man, hey, lay off, bro, you know what, not at this juncture.

What I am saying is that no matter how you work out, make love, eat fried chicken man I DON'T GIVE A SHIT, put your freak on display, but when you come down on a community, man the workout community is your friend, the training isn't just a good sweat, it's personal.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 17, 2007, 10:03:04 AM
After some light calisthenics, I tore open the Netflix envelope and watched "Harsh Times", which was very weird.   Of course, I expected it to be "Training Day"-meets-something, but I certainly didn't expect it to be "Training Day"-meets-"Pursuit of Happyness"-meets-"Patti Rocks"... Imagine my surprise!!  Not so much at the "POH" part but rather the "Patti Rocks" part.

For those who haven't seen "Patti Rocks", the similarity is in the element of it's mostly two guys drinking beer in the car and talking about women and life and whatnot, calling each other "man" and "dog" and "dude" and "bro" and so forth, except I don't think they had "dog" back in 1988, so they didn't call each other "dog" in 1988, but still. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 17, 2007, 10:19:33 AM
I thought it was going to be "American History X" meets "Spun" meets "Ticker," but I was never sure.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 17, 2007, 11:44:59 AM
There were drugs, but there were no neo-nazis or Irish terrorists, AFAICT. 

If anyone who has seen "Patti Rocks" does see "Harsh Times", please report - I know my analogy seems facetious or droll (consider the source!!), but I swear, as I was watching it, I couldn't help thinking, wow, this guy (the writer-director) must have really liked "Patti Rocks" a lot.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 17, 2007, 01:15:49 PM
Reply #560  Jbottle

I was tempted. So, I just have to borrow what either samiinh or, our moderator(?) seems to say now and again:

"Thank you.  We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view."

That is because my son is a personal trainer.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 17, 2007, 01:18:11 PM
"After some light calisthenics, I tore open the Netflix envelope...."

Yeah, what is up with that little sticky circle they fold over the two sides of the Netflix envelope, which makes opening at least three times more labor than it would be otherwise?  I usually do a little qiqong or tai chai, get the arms and delts and latissimus dorsi loosened a bit, and then go hunt for the letter opener (or if that's MIA, a paring knife) and slit that sucker open.  You can't just tear the thing open without doing damage to your return portion of the envelope, unless you have a master's degree in origami or maybe fly-tying.

I'll check out Harsh Times, but no promises.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 17, 2007, 08:16:48 PM
After a number of jumping-jacks and somersaults, I enjoyed some light afternoon fare, a bit of cheese, an apple, and 9 Bud Lights.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 17, 2007, 11:00:12 PM
"Fantastic Floor" has just been greenlighted by Fox Searchlight.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 08:25:22 AM
"Knocked Up" has a lot of funny jokes, there's no denying it.  Paul Rudd delivers many of them, as does Leslie Mann and the guy who plays the girl's boss at E! Network (he was the pirate in the dodgeball movie), as do many other cast members.

Notwithstanding the many funny jokes, "KU" is horrible.  I saw it last night, and it still makes me queasy just thinking about it now.  The whole idea of okay, here's this pretty, smart, successful girl, and she hooks up with this fat, ugly loser... it's just disgusting.  And I know the whole point is, well, he's really sweet, and his character changes in the story, and he becomes more responsible and blahblahblah - no, he is an a**hole, and a fat, ugly loser, and it's just not funny at all. 

I have nothing against fat, ugly losers - I mean, I AM one and I'm sure most of the other posters here are, too, to some degree.  But just because there are fat ugly losers in the world, and just because, for whatever reason, they occasionally hook up with smart pretty girls, doesn't mean it's material for a movie, especially when the fat, ugly loser isn't even a nice person. 

All of the scenes involving the fat guy and the pretty girl (especially the sex scenes - ugh) are just horrendous, and there are even a few clanger scenes that don't even involve them.  The guy is a slacker who hangs out with his slacker friends and they talk about movies all the time (shocker!), and in one scene the fat guy talks about (brace yourself for this)... The Rule of 2's.   I know, I know - I almost puked right then and there. 

They have a naked movie star reference web site (kind of like www.cndb.com (http://www.cndb.com)), and they discover that there's another web site offering the same services.  At first they are dismayed, then the fat guy says, hey, this isn't so bad, everything comes in twos, I mean there's "Volcano" and "Dante's Peak", "Armageddon" and "Deep Impact", etc.  Come on people, just because it plays on the NYT Film Forum doesn't mean it's a joke fit for a movie!

Judd Apatow is no Cameron Crowe, thank goodness, but he's close enough to be avoided.  I thought "T40YOV" was okay, pretty funny, etc., and "Knocked Up" had many good jokes and a few great ones, but "KU" was generally so disgusting that I must avoid any further Apatow exposure.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 18, 2007, 09:26:21 AM
But just because there are fat ugly losers in the world, and just because, for whatever reason, they occasionally hook up with smart pretty girls, doesn't mean it's material for a movie, especially when the fat, ugly loser isn't even a nice person. 

Unless the fat, ugly loser is a writer and/or director.


Quote
The guy is a slacker who hangs out with his slacker friends and they talk about movies all the time (shocker!), and in one scene the fat guy talks about (brace yourself for this)... The Rule of 2's.   I know, I know - I almost puked right then and there. 

They have a naked movie star reference web site (kind of like www.cndb.com), and they discover that there's another web site offering the same services.  At first they are dismayed, then the fat guy says, hey, this isn't so bad, everything comes in twos, I mean there's "Volcano" and "Dante's Peak", "Armageddon" and "Deep Impact", etc.  Come on people, just because it plays on the NYT Film Forum doesn't mean it's a joke fit for a movie!

Wow, Apatow should pay you and jbottle royalties; that sounds almost verbatim like some of your observations.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 18, 2007, 10:20:24 AM
Oilcan, thanks for talking me off the Knocked Up ledge.  Regarding...

"I have nothing against fat, ugly losers - I mean, I AM one and I'm sure most of the other posters here are, too, to some degree."

Speaking metaphorically, perhaps.   Le conditione humaine, and all that.  Quando omnia vincit, moritati!

(when all else fails, play dead...)

Jbottle --- re 9 Bud Lights...just drink 4 good German ales, you get the same buzz, and you don't slosh when you move.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 10:55:57 AM
Oilcan, thanks for talking me off the Knocked Up ledge.  Regarding...

Again, it's funny, there's no denying that.  Every single actor in it is spot-on and great, especially the executive at E! Network. None of that is to be dismissed, and everyone loves the movie, it's a big hit, so that speaks for itself.  I found the basic idea of the movie to be distateful, but that's just me, maybe I'm just a prude or a wuss or whatever you call it, in the parlance of our times, etc., so don't let my ramblings stop you from enjoying what is, by all accounts except for yours truly's, an enjoyable movie.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 18, 2007, 11:03:01 AM
Don't misunderstand.  I was leaning towards another film, so I would have found a reason to reject KU no matter who rambled upon it.  The basic theme is not one that appeals to me, no matter how well done. 

To put it baldly, the recent trend in comedy towards stories where people find a way to do the right thing and be happy is profoundly disturbing.  If I had heard about KU, say,

"...by the end, the FUL (fat ugly loser) finds himself in a South American prison, sleeping with lizards, and hallucinating the Radiator Lady from 'Eraserhead'  from breathing toxic mold spores...." 

I might have perked up a bit.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 18, 2007, 01:26:48 PM
"The Rule of 2's, huh..." so closely on the heels of "Sunshine" and bringing up the distant memory of "Spring Break Lawyer" produced by MTV (I'm convinced that I told so many people my pitch for "Spring Break Attorney" that it was co-opted...), it's going to be death by a thousand blows.

They didn't acually say "Rule of 2's," did they oil?  That would be too, too cruel a cut.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 01:40:31 PM
They didn't acually say "Rule of 2's," did they oil?  That would be too, too cruel a cut.

They didn't, but they might as well have.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 18, 2007, 01:41:53 PM
Nontheless I bleed.....damn you fates!!!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: lulu on June 18, 2007, 02:50:14 PM
Oily:

Glad to see you again.  How's Ravenous?  Seen it lately?


;D


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 18, 2007, 04:54:18 PM
"Knocked Up" has a lot of funny jokes, there's no denying it.  Paul Rudd delivers many of them,

I forgot to mention this earlier -- is it me, or is Paul Rudd the go to guy for supporting role male, comedy? AKA "the best friend" usually.  I'm not complaining, I usually enjoy Rudd's work whatever he does; but -- and maybe it's just because T40YOV and KU are by the same guy and all -- I feel like I'm always seeing him in the same role lately.  Of course, I see him in this role on commercials, because G-d forbid I actually go see a new realease....but anyway, jut something I noticed. May or may not be a valid observation. 

Is it weird that Paul McCartney and Roger Ebert were born on exactly the same day?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 18, 2007, 06:29:52 PM
Paul Rudd is a comic genius, and he's a guy that could be making a lot more money doing awful TV work; I think he's kind of crafted that career where he gets to be really funny and steal the show most of the time, but he knows he can't really hold a gun and he's not going to pretend to be as charming as Hugh Grant pretends to be--he seems like the kind of guy where the sky is the limit and he would rather hit a bullseye from 15 ft. than shoot at one from 100 yds. where even if he misses entirely, to mix a metaphor, it would pay a lot more.  I think he's in a very enviable position in terms of a career, I think he's kind of the half-generation heir to the throne of Gary Cole, not that they are the same type or anything, but that they could be funny in about anything, when required.  While Rudd may fall victim to the romantic comedy roles and Cole the occasional heavy, both seem most at home with easy, understated comedy, and both, when onscreen in something funny, are hard to take your eyes off because they are stars.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 06:44:20 PM
...I think he's kind of the half-generation heir to the throne of Gary Cole...

Very nice!!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 06:48:35 PM
How's Ravenous? 

I liked "Ravenous" a lot.  It's "Interview With The Vampire" meets "F Troop", with a whacko score by Michael Nyman and Damon Albarn.   There are many good things about the movie (about any of which I could post a few thousand word posts), none better than the performance of Guy Pearce in the lead.

Little known fact:  "Ravenous" was actually my inspiration for my "oilcanboyd" handle - Guy Pearce's character's name is Capt. Boyd.  I had just seen "Ravenous" when I registered for the NYT Film Forum, and it seemed like a nice name.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 06:52:18 PM
...and maybe it's just because T40YOV and KU are by the same guy and all...

Actually, Paul Rudd's character in "KU" is married with kids and successful in business, as opposed to the single guy who can't get over the old girlfriend thing in "T40YOV".  In "KU", he's married to the sister (the always competent Leslie Mann - loved her in "The Cable Guy") of the female lead, and you think he's going to be mean to the fat ugly guy but as it turns out they like each other and get along well, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 18, 2007, 07:12:43 PM
"Is it weird that Paul McCartney and Roger Ebert were born on exactly the same day?"

I can see that. Kind of like Father and Son.   Can't picture where they lived though. I think the only historic household information, I ever had was John Lennon's mother's kitchen; which did away with the rumor that they were really very rich bastards who just put on their basic origins.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 18, 2007, 10:26:28 PM
Yeah, Leslie Mann is in the running for most fun girl in the universe, just to be that pretty, and that funny, is very, very, rare:  She is th'bom.

I think that the score for "Ravenous" is critical for whether you dismiss or like the film:  If you are transfixed and fascinated by it, for whatever reason, you love the film without reservation, if not, you might accidentally dismiss it as a one off.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 18, 2007, 10:43:02 PM
And you'll find that the guy who trashed "Ravenous" at theonion.com... no longer works at theonion.com.

Ebert actually did a nice review of "Ravenous" - he got it, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 18, 2007, 11:46:04 PM
...I think he's kind of the half-generation heir to the throne of Gary Cole...

Very nice!!

Actually, I think he meant Gary Coleman...and just got interupted while typing


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 19, 2007, 12:50:01 AM
I like the spirit if not the substance of the retort, I was always more of a "Diff'rent Stokes" purist, and a fan of Conrad Bain for being a good sport.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 19, 2007, 07:55:46 AM
...I think he's kind of the half-generation heir to the throne of Gary Cole...

Very nice!!

Actually, I think he meant Gary Coleman...and just got interupted while typing

Actually, there is clearly only one half-generation heir to the throne of Gary Coleman, i.e., ubiquitous cute little guy, infectious smile:

http://imdb.com/name/nm0000129/ (http://imdb.com/name/nm0000129/)



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 19, 2007, 10:13:07 AM
Re

"I liked "Ravenous" a lot.  It's "Interview With The Vampire" meets "F Troop"....

Now there is a description you just don't hear every day.  Interesting trivium about "Boyd."  I always liked the double meaning, in the baseball world, of calling a pitcher "Oilcan" -- i.e. he likes his beer, or he likes to lube up the baseball, a la early 20th century baseball when it was rumored that an actual oilcan, containing a petroleum-based lubricant, was used for this purpose.  Though I have to wonder just where you would conceal it, up there on the mound...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 19, 2007, 10:25:54 AM
Interesting trivium...

I've never thought about that before, but now that I have, I'm surprised that I haven't.

I've known for a while the whole thing about "trivia" = "three roads" = the Romans would put up an information-sign wherever three roads met, etc., and we've taken that word to mean "little known facts" or whatever.   If that's the case, then maybe you can't say "trivium" is the singular of "trivia" like "datum" is to "data" or whatever, or maybe you can, I don't know.

Anyways, I strongly recommend "Ravenous" to anyone, and if anyone has any questions, comments or thoughts/feelings about the movie that they'd like to share, you'll find me to be pretty knowledgable on the subject.  My estimated number of "Ravenous" viewings is 23, of which 7 are beginning-to-end viewings.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 19, 2007, 10:39:36 AM
I think you're right that trivia can't be made singular because there are, as you said, three roads meeting.  And there are also many words that end with "us" that aren't really Latin, so you can't make them plural by tacking an "i" on the end.  For example, several members of the Andre Dubus (author of "House of Sand and Fog") family cannot be called "Dubi."





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 19, 2007, 11:19:27 AM
Perhaps, trivium are all those things you couldn't be bothered to go into; whereas trivia was what somebody else thought you ought to know about.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 19, 2007, 01:31:18 PM
Cruise's bio lists him at 5' 7", which, if true would make me Manute Bol.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 20, 2007, 01:57:08 AM
In the case of Cruise, that would be Minute Bol.  I noticed that in many of his pictures with Kidman, she was either sitting or crouching.  Seems like he has a hang-up over this height thing.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 20, 2007, 02:10:51 AM
I finally got around to seeing that very odd movie,Little Children, with the guy who played opposite Meryl Streep (and many others, for that matter) in --Angels in America.    Did anybody else see this?   What a waste of Kate Winslet.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 20, 2007, 02:23:25 AM
I hear that movie is exclusively for fags.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 20, 2007, 08:18:58 AM
Saw American Splendor last night.  Never knew comics were such a big thing for (some) adults...   
Thanks to WP.  Would have missed out on this engaging indie otherwise.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 20, 2007, 08:58:24 AM
Now that you've seen American Splendor, you should check out Crumb:

http://www.amazon.com/Crumb-Special-Robert/dp/B000ELL1RG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182344259&sr=1-1


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 20, 2007, 09:35:07 AM
Thanks, Diz!  I see that it's available in "instant watch" thru Netflix...looks intriguing as well.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 20, 2007, 10:23:52 AM
American Splendor is a rare and splendid film.  Opened up a whole interesting different world for me --- what great film is supposed to do.

Just watched the DVD of The Fountain, a disappointment if you like Aronofsky.  It has his trademark jazz-like repetitions of a motif over and over through the (barely discernible) narrative, and some visual inventiveness (future astronaut traveling to Orion in a giant glass xmas tree ornament, passing the time with doses of tree bark and tattooing himself), but it's a godawful sloppy mess trying to blend Mayan myth, the spanish inquisition (weren't expecting THAT, were you?), modern medical research, and some baroque new agey future.  Recommended only for conquistadors-on-crack.



 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 20, 2007, 01:04:27 PM
I'll tilt just about anything on beer.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 20, 2007, 07:09:28 PM
May watch "Smoking Aces" if not poker on the Travel Channel tonight:  The sigboth is in Sin City cranking out pool drinks w/silicone girls and their meatmen.  Would love nothing more than to be drinking Scotch Rocks and turning blackjack cards for a couple of hours to limber up the mind.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 20, 2007, 08:09:20 PM
Quote
The sigboth is in Sin City cranking out pool drinks w/silicone girls and their meatmen. 

I don't know what this means.  I am not sure I want to know what this means.

So I just watched the trailer for the remake of 3:10 to Yuma (starring [the overrated] R. Crowe, Christian Bale) -- IIRC, it has a lot more action than the original.  Which may or may not be a bad thing.  But I recall the original being a suspense/drama thing, and the western setting was almost incidental.  Then again, I've only seen the original 2-3 times, and not in the last five minutes or anything. 

The remake is definitely a Western (yes, with a capital W), with glaringly period clothes, haircuts, sets, etc.  Which may not necessarily detract from the film; but to me it seems kinda like overkill. But it seems to be the thing to do -- remake a classic, which was fine in its own right -- but go crazy on details, add some car chases, really amp it up.  Whereas the story of 3:10 to Yuma, as I understand it, isn't a big story; it's the story of a (figuratively) little guy who stands up, largely due to desperate economic circumstances, to do the right thing. 

So I guess I'm trying to say that I hope the story of 3:10 to Yuma doesn't get lost in the retelling with moremoremore details.  I like Christian Bale, and I like Alan Tudyk, who has a supporting role; so I  hope the new 3:10 to Yuma works out well, box office- and review-wise.  Gretchen Mol is also cast, which I may not have done; but WTHDIK anyway? 

Just caught the end of a three-or-so-year-old Scrubs rerun, and guess what song they used to wrap up?  Journey's Don't Stop Believing.  Or whatever it's called that The Sopranos used the other night.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 20, 2007, 09:15:24 PM
Smokin Aces

Heh - get ready to laugh your ass off.

Piven could have better capitalized on his fleeting fame, but I guess the price was pretty good.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 20, 2007, 11:59:34 PM
Yeah, I watched poker, but Pivzy did probably get paid.

"The sigboth is in Sin City cranking out pool drinks w/silicone girls and their meatmen."

Translation:  "My girlfriend ["significant bother (a/k/a "beer associate," considered derisive] is in Las Vegas enjoying [that mint + vodka + sugarcane one, can't get the name right now] while strippers walk around with their bodyguard boyfriends.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 21, 2007, 09:37:04 AM
Got it -- thank you.  It was the silicone girls that flummoxed me; I thought they were with the SB, rather than just walking by.  (With their meatmen, of course.)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 21, 2007, 10:40:20 AM
Watched the AFI thing last night with half an eye.  Very sentiment-driven, very safe, but some of the clips were fun to watch.   Sad omissions, left to their lives of obscurity in the genre ghetto:

The Abyss
THX 1138
Mulholland Drive
The Day the Earth Stood Still
Terminator II
Alien
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
The Matrix (first one)



 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 21, 2007, 10:41:44 AM
Watched the AFI thing last night with half an eye.  Very sentiment-driven, very safe, but some of the clips were fun to watch.   Sad omissions, left to their lives of obscurity in the genre ghetto:

The Abyss
THX 1138
Mulholland Drive
The Day the Earth Stood Still
Terminator II
Alien
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
The Matrix (first one)



 
All deservedly omitted.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 21, 2007, 10:46:05 AM
All films that far surpass the SF film that was included:  Star Wars.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 21, 2007, 10:47:19 AM
Though I was glad to see 2001 make the list.

(but Clockwork Orange, in the Top Hundred??, WTF....)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 21, 2007, 10:51:53 AM
All films that far surpass the SF film that was included:  Star Wars.



LOL


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 21, 2007, 10:56:02 AM
There was an AFI thing on last night?  Totally missed it, watched The Shop Around the Corner.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 21, 2007, 10:57:10 AM
All films that far surpass the SF film that was included:  Star Wars.


Uh...  What do you mean?  There were a couple SF's on the list, including Star Wars and Blade Runner.

O.K., perhaps only those two, depending on how you classify Fellowship of the Ring.

edit: Forgot about 2001, as well.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 21, 2007, 10:59:50 AM
There was an AFI thing on last night?  Totally missed it, watched The Shop Around the Corner.
They did a 10th Anniversary 100 Greatest American films.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years..._100_Movies_%2810th_Anniversary_Edition%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years..._100_Movies_%2810th_Anniversary_Edition%29)We are now living in a world where Toy Story is considered a greater movie than Fantasia - not to mention The Third Man, Fargo, and Stagecoach - and I may have just lost my will to live.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 21, 2007, 11:01:35 AM
Though I must say, the aditions of Nashville and The General were welcome.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 21, 2007, 11:14:04 AM
There was an AFI thing on last night?  Totally missed it, watched The Shop Around the Corner.
They did a 10th Anniversary 100 Greatest American films.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years..._100_Movies_%2810th_Anniversary_Edition%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years..._100_Movies_%2810th_Anniversary_Edition%29)We are now living in a world where Toy Story is considered a greater movie than Fantasia - not to mention The Third Man, Fargo, and Stagecoach - and I may have just lost my will to live.

To borrow -- okay, blatantly steal -- from Buffy, the world is doomed.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 21, 2007, 11:33:05 AM
Yeah, I wondered how the Coens could go unrepresented, and the omission of The Third Man is ridiculous.

Whisky, I was just lamenting the way that fantasy and space-opera tend to hijack the public imagination and displace true speculative fiction.  I didn't see the whole show, so didn't know Blade Runner made it.  That's a sound choice, but I tend to see SF as a more dominant cultural presence than does AFI. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 21, 2007, 12:10:10 PM
Lists are terrible in general, but barton, I agree with whisqe that none of the film you mention are even in the top 1000 with the exception of "Alien."  "THX" is really boring.  However you did get me thinking about a top 20 or so SciFi list, which is to say it's fun to make your own list but lists, especially published ones fall under deep scruting of the person who would immediately go about rearranging and editing anyone else's list.  Ordering favourites is deeply personal, and I treat it with almost the same reverance as prognosticating box-office revenues on whimsy and no real science, but I digress.

I think "Star Wars" is great and demonstrates 30 yrs. later what a bad idea CGI usually is if nothing else.

I have to say that I take special offence to your menton of "The Abyss," which had an underwater CGI penis that got very curious about Mary Elisabeth Mastrantonio and even more interested in Ed Harris.  I think the penis was trying to help, but I found the whole thing very unsettling:  Much prefer obelisks.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 21, 2007, 01:18:12 PM
Ah yes, the usual Abyss penis joke.  Always welcome at informal occasions.

If one could overlook the watery johnson, there was a sense of wonder and mystery evoked which I think is a reasonable goal of the SF genre.  Plus watching M'tonio drowned and then brought back to life, tres romantique.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 21, 2007, 01:35:12 PM
I just got around to checking out the AFI list, and I can't believe Doctor Zhivago fell off it. And as noted by others, I can't believe other stuff, like Toy Story, climbed on to help usurp DZ (and other excellent flicks).   

I also get puzzled by the voters or compilers or whoever they are "discovering" Sullivan's Travels (1941), Nashville (1975), or The General (1927).   I mean, these flicks were definitely around when the list was compiled 10 years ago -- why didn't they make it then?  (which they should have, IMHO)  Guess I'm just cranky because so many of my favorites took big hits. 

Change sucks.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 21, 2007, 04:12:15 PM
When that damn penis went after Ed Harris in "The Abyss" I couldn't even look at a snorkel without questioning my sexuality, that movie hit home like a mother-scratcher, I started hanging out at plushy parties and never played Captain Nemo anymore like Arnold did with Gordon Jump in that very special Diff'rent Strokes, I mean nothing seemed to work until I started taking a lot of back pills and watching Hunter and Magnum P.I. back to back, it was like my rock.  Now, back to normsies, even bought a pair of goggles, in THE FORM OF A 12 PACK, beer goggles, get it, damn man, ah, never mind...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 21, 2007, 11:20:05 PM
Gosh, y'all:  When I say "back pills," we are on the funny forum, supposedly, so forget it, you, all serious, shove it right back where it came from...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 21, 2007, 11:21:46 PM
I'm like 14 posts from eatme so eatme.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 21, 2007, 11:24:58 PM
This is a note from jbottle's sponsor:  He's in good hands.

Keep hoping, beautiful people.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 05:02:33 AM
Whiz to the gee, my brothers, anyway, I apologize for my anti- comments earlier and most specifically do not regret anything said against
Fred  Funk.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 05:24:33 AM
I seem to be about 12 steps away from 200 posts:  The first is admitting that I'm powerless over alcohol:  Newsflash, alcohol is a molecule.  I will admit to being powerless over Cheetahs, but my brothers and sisters, I will never and am not in fact powerless over alcohol.  For some reason some motherfucker putting a Glock in my face in today's fucked society:  Yeah, take the $200, no prob, I'm "powerless," but over beer?, oh, no, no, no sir, that is just not going to happen.  I felt bad for the couple who fell off a building accidentally to each of their deaths, it seemed so odd and untimely, but was happy that they were at least pursuing a sort of biological whim rather than a war of personality.  We had a couple of cuties, and I promise I'm not making light of this at all, lost in the battle against whatever isn't oil concern, and so shoot, I think that they have a speedtrain ticket to heaven if possible, and feel for their families.  There was a cop who said "We can only imagine what they were doing...," which shows a rare demostration of imagination for
Columbia cops, but poor taste. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 22, 2007, 06:12:00 AM
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it isn't until 250 post that you get your status changed to Sr. Member.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fersanti on June 22, 2007, 08:44:12 AM
Any thoughts on "Russian Ark"? I just saw it yesterday and was looking for some commentary...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 22, 2007, 09:58:45 AM
Now that you've seen American Splendor, you should check out Crumb:

http://www.amazon.com/Crumb-Special-Robert/dp/B000ELL1RG/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182344259&sr=1-1

Crumb is an eye-opener, totally engrossing.  Personally had been under the impression that much of his work had been created by someone back in the 30's, though had never given it that much thought, simply finding many of his "icons" bizarrely fascinating.  Great documentary (six years work?) raw, revealing, sad...

Thanks for the recommendation, Diz!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:15:24 AM
Jbot -- alcohol is a molecule that makes some warble.  Call it "Warhol."

Do I want to sink to this level for Senior status?  Hmm.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 22, 2007, 10:26:04 AM
Posting.
One.
Word.
At.
A.
Time.
Is.
Not.
Much.
Different.
comma
Don't
You
Think
question
mark

(just playing, in case you're wondering)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:28:07 AM
But posting one sentence at a time is merely "interactive."



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:28:49 AM
It provides gaps in one's train of thought that allow others to break in.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:29:34 AM
There are some thoughts tis best to save.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:30:17 AM
while you soak your face with....



....Burma Shave!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 22, 2007, 10:34:30 AM
From what I understand, only 60 to go....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:37:06 AM
I think the post-structuralists like Foucault are correct -- the writer doesn't "own" or determine the meaning of his text.  Like Jbottle, one may simply let the words fly out and leave their meaning fluid and indeterminate and hope that someone will interpret them as meaningful, perhaps even profound.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 22, 2007, 10:38:44 AM
And don't pronounce his name "Fuck-O" -- he really hates that.

It's "Fook-oh."



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 22, 2007, 10:40:36 AM
Ahh yes, the spaghetti on the wall method.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 22, 2007, 10:46:20 AM
And I guess I should mention that Fred Funk is playing golf just about 45 minutes away from me.  If the wekend weren't already jam-packed, I'd dress the hubby in my best pink flowered skirt and away we'd go to follow Mr. Funk from hole to hole, confronting him with the shame that is his misogyny.  Okay, so we'd be thrown out by the second tee -- but we've been bounced from better places than River Highlands, so it would be an honorable sacrifice in the name of women everywhere. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
If you haven't been kicked out of 50% of the bars in the city you lived in when you were 25, you haven't really discovered the purpose of tequila.   It would be better if everytime Funk got to the tee box, you said "Knock it out of the park, Shecky...," he would never be able to forget that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 22, 2007, 12:31:30 PM
It would be better if everytime Funk got to the tee box, you said "Knock it out of the park, Shecky...," he would never be able to forget that.

Whoever does that is officially my hero.  You could also just start singing "The Wheels On The Bus" as he's walking up to the tee box. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 22, 2007, 12:37:27 PM
I'd better write this stuff down for next year.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 22, 2007, 01:20:28 PM
I'd better write this stuff down for next year.

It doesn't necessarily have to be "Knock it out of the park, Shecky" or "The Wheels On The Bus" - pick whatever you want.  Just be sure that, if it's just a spoken line, then it needs to give the guy a deep and lasting sense of WTF?, and if it's a song, it needs to be something that will stay in his head all day.

And don't do it while he's addressing the ball or during his backswing or anything.  The whole point of it is that you're not being rude or otherwise doing anything to get thrown out or yelled at.  When the marshal raises the "Hush Y'all" sign, you just hush.  But when the player is walking up to the box (and everyone is saying boring words of encouragement) or after the player hits the ball (and everyone is saying boring things like "Yeah!" or "Nice Shot!"), just be sure to say or sing something that's going to get into the guy's head and rattle around, because it's so weird or whatever.

Do that, and you're my hero.




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 22, 2007, 02:32:51 PM
Can anyone tell me which movie this character appears in?

(http://www.nanarland.com/Chroniques/captainorgazmo/orgazmo03.jpg)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 22, 2007, 02:45:17 PM
"Amistad"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 22, 2007, 02:57:19 PM
As a matter of fact, this is a picture of Oprah's (orpah's) sex slave from "The Color Purple 2".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 22, 2007, 02:58:24 PM
No, wasn't he in Mary Poppins ?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 22, 2007, 03:00:09 PM
Saw American Splendor last night.  Never knew comics were such a big thing for (some) adults...   
Thanks to WP.  Would have missed out on this engaging indie otherwise.

I recall seeing this one afternoon with a spare couple of hours when  it first appeared on cable.  I can see how it would be appealing--especially if you were a comic buff, but it wasn't really quite for me...  I think because the charachter reminded me too much of people that I struggle with in my own life...   I guess I would rather escape that unpleasantness than re-live it needlessly


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 22, 2007, 03:03:11 PM
Saw American Splendor last night.  Never knew comics were such a big thing for (some) adults...   
Thanks to WP.  Would have missed out on this engaging indie otherwise.

I recall seeing this one afternoon with a spare couple of hours when  it first appeared on cable.  I can see how it would be appealing--especially if you were a comic buff, but it wasn't really quite for me...  I think because the charachter reminded me too much of people that I struggle with in my own life...   I guess I would rather escape that unpleasantness than re-live it needlessly
Fair enough.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 22, 2007, 03:03:45 PM
There are some thoughts tis best to save.....

shameless Barton...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 04:30:10 PM
It looks like the guy from "Orgasmo," with suitable attire, but I don't remember that outfit.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 05:53:28 PM
The new Stephen King/Cusack one is getting decent reviews, looks like it could be entertaining...yipee.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 05:55:09 PM
I thought my status was supposed to change at 200, if not, that's fine, if you're a hero member or something, no big deal, I just made TWO HUNDRED POSTS...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 22, 2007, 06:22:12 PM
I thought my status was supposed to change at 200, if not, that's fine, if you're a hero member or something, no big deal, I just made TWO HUNDRED POSTS...



only fifty more to go J


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 22, 2007, 07:14:18 PM
...so there is hope...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: pugetopolis on June 22, 2007, 08:42:41 PM
Can anyone tell me which movie this character appears in?

(http://www.nanarland.com/Chroniques/captainorgazmo/orgazmo03.jpg)

This character appears in "Detective Winslow Plunks His Magic Twanger"....

Or "How I Learned To Live With The Creepy Guy in The Mirror Every Morning."

"Stunning performance by Leather Queen Detective Winslow"--New York Times

"Academy Award Winner For Best Dildoe Documentary"--TV Guide


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 01:17:08 AM
Let's change the subject...


Any commentary on the old classic,  Harold & Maude


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Detective_Winslow on June 23, 2007, 01:23:21 AM
Splooge:


You're wrong...Choda boy appeared in the Trey Parker classic, "Oragazmo".


(http://cl.acurazine.com/forums/image.php?u=172457&dateline=1153755516)


Title: Harold & Maude
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 03:41:26 AM
Ok...I'll start...

I saw this one for the first time Waaay back in college.

I think the reason this movie spoke to so many people was that we've all had that feeling of utter and complete boredom of life at one point or another (even if that is not where we were when first seeing the film).  It was also one of the first sort of quirky offbeat dark comedies that I can recall--perfect for someone exploring everything about life --as we often do in undergraduate education years...

Hal Ashby also did one of my favorite Peter Sellers films -- Being There


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 03:50:46 AM
Of course he also did one of me least favorite movies of the era also --  Shampoo

Watching that movie, was like listening to Disco--a painful waste of time...

Movies like that in the 70s were desperately trying to tap into what they perceived as the free love era.  Good writing and even actual plots were considered unnecessary


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 23, 2007, 08:44:36 AM
Of course he also did one of me least favorite movies of the era also --  Shampoo


I thought Ashby was just the putative (or titular or whatever) director of "Shampoo", and that he actually just sat in the corner while Warren Beatty told everyone what to do. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 09:29:13 AM
very possible, oilcanboyd.

Back to trojanhorse' original  thoughts on the subject, can you remember the actor?   Who was perfectly cast. Alas we do not stay young forever. In between one state and another, from perfect to no longer young, he was a brilliant comic actor.

His co-star, the character Maude, Ruth Gorden goes way back. Onknowing, I saw her perform in a film when I was in the first few year of my young school life, they were having what was to be known as visual aids as a new thing in education, and somebody figured that seven or eight year old were ready to deal with Abraham Lincoln. Although we were barely through See  Spot run, see Dick, and Jane, etc.

It turns out Lincoln is quite a bit to deal with emotionally.  Isn't there a recent book or play that came out about -- the other couple who were in the box at the Ford Theater when Lincoln was shot?

As a result, it was only in the last few years when this film was on television again, and I wasn't paying any real attention to it as I was on the computer at the same time, I turned around and suddenly recognized the gestures of the young woman in the film about Lincoln. These personal characteristics do not change readily in an actor, especially of that era,it is their cachet, that individuated them from other actors who might be chosen for a part in film or on the stage. Ruth Gorden was very brunette at that age.

By the time that we saw her in --  Harold and Maude, with Bud Cort, she had all the sophisticated experience of somebody like Lou Salome, without anybody having to mention it.   Harold found this fascinating. I don't think it was so much that he was bored but that he was truly depressed until he met the eccentric Maude who was old enough to recognize that he was seriously unhappy. The whole thing is pretty funny in a flower-child  meets Katherine Hepburn sort of way as a premise. Ruth/Maude provides Bud/Harold with the companionship that is sorely lacking in his life because his mother is a social butterfly (one of the funnier altercations has to do with her arranging an "engagement" with a young --what would have known at that time as a debutante socialite whom, if she had married Harold would have become a member of the Junior League. Harold promptly enacts another dramatic suicide attempt when she comes to call.); but Maude instinctively knows why Harold is what he is, so we eventually get the funniest morning-after scene ever.

What is annoying me right now is my inability to recall who the heck Ruth Gorden's husband was, although he was a renowned director. I hate it when I have to look up these things that were once important to me.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 09:44:59 AM
It was Garson Kanin. Alas I've not spelled Ruth's name correctly, it was Gordon, not Gorden. I guess, I couldn't make up my mind. Here, are some of her most  insightful quotes:

"The great have no friends. They merely know a lot of people."

"Why should ruts be so comfortable and so unpopular?"

"The kiss. There are all sorts of kisses, lad, from the sticky confection to the kiss of death. Of them all, the kiss of an actress is the most unnerving. How can we tell if she means it or if she's just practicing?"

"The best impromptu speeches are the ones written well in advance."

"Never give up; and never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts."

"If you believe, then you hang on. If you believe, it means you've got imagination, you don't need stuff thrown out on a blueprint, and don't face facts-what can stop you? If I don't make it today, I'll come in tomorrow."

"All I wanted out of a career was to look like Hazel Dawn and wear pink feathers."

[On winning the Oscar at age 72, after fifty years in show business.] "I can't tell you how encouraging a thing like this is, for a young actress like myself."



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 23, 2007, 10:40:05 AM
"1408" looks like a worthy addition to the hotel-horror genre -- which Cusack delved into a couple years ago in "Identity."  Local review was tepid, but I think the writer didn't get that you can make more than one haunted hotel movie and you're not stealing from The Shining.  It's a subgenre in itself. 

A Scanner Darkly is in my mailbox today, so I'll be back (link)later.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 01:05:00 PM
Trojan:  You're completely wrong about "Shampoo," it is one of the finest films of the 70's and has a hippie era feel and predates Disco.  Ashby's stamp is all over the film as much as Beatty wants to believe he directs anything he's ever been in.

I'm guessing that you haven't seen the film in over 20 yrs. so I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the measured tone of politics, generational conflict, the consequences of "free love," and a deep melancholy that accompanies Robert Towne's often whimsical script. 

I can see someone putting it on a list of "Not for me...," but it's a near perfect film, for me it's the equivalent of saying that "The Last Detail" and "Chinatown" sucked, my reaction being:  You can not be serious.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 23, 2007, 01:11:57 PM
You can not be serious.

That ball was clearly on the line!!

Anyways, maybe it was some other Warren Beatty movie I'm thinking of. "Heaven Can Wait", maybe?

I also remember hearing some story about Beatty and Altman on the "McCabe & Mrs. Miller" set, but I can't remember what happened.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 02:12:42 PM
"1408" looks like a worthy addition to the hotel-horror genre --

 

I'm not a horror genre buff, but I'm looking forward to seeing this one.  I am a big Cusak fan...for whatever reason


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 02:20:23 PM
J

I'll watch it again and report back to you.  I think the very fact that so many people were going gaga over it is precisely why it was so dissappointing to me - and "again" very much like disco. Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice was similarly celebrated a few years earlier and although it too is probably "not my thing" I would probaly call it a better movie than Shampoo.  I actually like Warren Beatty when he doesn't take himself so seriously. IMHO, he's not nearly smart enough to continue posing as an intellectual and I find it mildly offensive when he does (but this is probably an emotional reaction on my part)

And although you may share the popular belief that the disco era was ushered in by Saturday Night Fever, a few years later, I would argue that this is when the masses were finally clued into what was happening over the past several years in the clubs.  "Disco" music was alive and well in 1975.

I was an AOR jock in the 70s and our format was replaced by "disco" in the late 70s so I have particular disdain --though intellectually I know I should not.   Everyone is allowed to like whatever they want and it is no one's fault if they are ahead or behind the "curve" in any one area of life.  We are all focused in different areas at any given time...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 02:31:39 PM
But the thing about "Shampoo" is it's detatched sociological view of the folly of the people in the film, not that we don't like Beatty, it's ultimately pretty flat about free love and all that silliness, and at some point you realize that for all his affected hipness, he's really just a calculating capitalist who, like his lover, looks to Jack Warden for dough.  What "Shampoo" is most definitely not is period piffle, because it knows exactly what it's doing in the way that "Boogie Nights" does withought the benefit of hindsight, it really catches a sadness that's hard to describe if you give it a chance.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 02:33:29 PM
Oh, and B & C & T & A is average and so is "Carnal Knowledge."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 02:37:54 PM
Very nicely spoken Madupont

I'll have to watch that one again also.

My recollection of Bud Cort was not so much that he was genuinely depressed, but that he was overpriveldged, bored and looking for attention -- example: the carefully orchestrated "fake" hanging of himself.

Ruth Gordon represented a door opening to a different side of life that he had not considered.  She was the perfect enigma -- a youthful outlook on life from someone near the end of their journey...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 02:50:43 PM
The Last Waltz on the other hand I thought was quite good...   though it's been many many years and on my own argument perhaps I should not have...


I'll have to check them all out again and reassess...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 02:53:10 PM
...errrr... The Last Tango that is...

I was reading something in popular music about The Band, and I still have that rolling around in my head...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 03:32:17 PM
"The Last Tango in Paris" is an overrated bore.

Looks like 1408 is going to do a respectable 18 or so but given the EV. AL. budget, the 11M Friday looks like a 28M weekend and a collossal bomb.

I think they needed a $65M weekend to recoup costs within 2 yrs.  Limping to $100M over several weeks isn't going to do it.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 04:08:22 PM
"The Last Tango in Paris" is an overrated bore.


Hence, why I ackowledged that by my own earlier comment I suppose I should not have liked that movie, yet I do recall liking it and finding it much more interesting than SHampoo.   Frankly I didn't pay all that much attention to any of those movies.  I just recall Shampoo getting a LOT of attention and acclaim and thinking it was no big deal at all.

J,  just so I can put you in perspective, what was your feeling on Apocalypse Now,   avoiding the obvious Conrad comparisons.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 04:15:13 PM

Looks like 1408 is going to do a respectable 18 or so

It's funny that sometimes we like or dislike a movie because it did or didn't do well ... or because it was or wasn't critically acclaimed and have no problem reconciling all the irreconcilable positions we take.  Sometimes we choose to go along and sometimes we choose to be the contrarian...

I think in the end so much of whether we choose to like or dislike a movie is where we are in life and even the mood we are in at the time that we see the movie...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 04:22:40 PM
Uh, "Apocalypse Now" is a masterpiece and an epic production, and "Last Tango..." is a fat old guy muttering about existential malaise while banging this hot young chick.

"Apocalypse Now" is about Martin Sheen being assigned to terminate with extreme prejudice an old fat guy muttering about existential malaise because he has "gone native" and has no "method" to his madness at all.

In "Tango," the method is avec butter.

In AN, the method is avec Wagner.

Compare and contrast.  Discuss.  (20 pts.)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 04:28:13 PM
Uh, "Apocalypse Now" is a masterpiece and an epic production, and "Last Tango..." is a fat old guy muttering about existential malaise while banging this hot young chick.

"Apocalypse Now" is about Martin Sheen being assigned to terminate with extreme prejudice an old fat guy muttering about existential malaise because he has "gone native" and has no "method" to his madness at all.


I got a kick out of this...I never really thought of the two characters played by Marlon Brando as being the same guy -- but you're actually not far off at all there...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 05:03:00 PM
.. it was actually sort of a trick question...I was sort of looking for you to say "How can you possibly discuss the movie without comparisions to  Heart of Darkness?  Which I think would have been a completely reasonable response.

But you are right, it WAS a great movie on many other levels also.  I saw Apocalypse now on Geary Street in San Francisco on Opening Night  (I can't recall the name of the theater now).  I remember how well the new (at that time) audio technology conveyed the fear of actually being under attack.  I involuntarily ducked in my seats in a few scenes as I could hear the bullets whizzing just a few inches over my head...

and of course the enduring lines such as "I love the smell of napalm in the morning.  The smell of Victory"

But really I thought it was the complete package. It was very nearly all that a movie can be - in that it it gives you most of what great literature does but also takes you further by visually and emotionally pulling you into the experience more deeply.

So I'm glad you enjoyed it also...

I'm not looking to pick a fight...I recall finding Shampoo trite as opposed to meaningful, but as you suspected it was many years ago, and the internal (or societal) struggle that you found engaging was not of interest to me back then...I probably found it obvious and overstated...often when you are young you think you know it all and maybe that was my problem...  What you found as Brando's meaningless ramblings, challenged me more at the time. Just as I find Hemmingway's personal progression particularly fascinating. That doesn't make either one of us right or wrong - as I was trying to say in my earlier posts I think it just depends on where you are in life..and maybe even what you had for dinner that night...   :)


I'll watch it again and let you know if it strikes me differently today...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 05:06:26 PM
Uh, "Apocalypse Now" is a masterpiece and an epic production, and "Last Tango..." is a fat old guy muttering about existential malaise while banging this hot young chick.

"Apocalypse Now" is about Martin Sheen being assigned to terminate with extreme prejudice an old fat guy muttering about existential malaise because he has "gone native" and has no "method" to his madness at all.


I got a kick out of this...I never really thought of the two characters played by Marlon Brando as being the same guy -- but you're actually not far off at all there...



That's why this scumbag lurker lurks. Boyd 'n Bottle. Bottle 'n Boyd.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 05:08:50 PM
and of course the enduring lines such as "I love the smell of napalm in the morning.  The smell of Victory"


I've always thought the line "Someday this war is gonna end" was significantly more significant.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 05:09:16 PM
I often thought the character of Larry Darrow in The Razor's Edge I reminded me of Hemingway and I found it particularly interesting in the film version with Bill Murray, that they made him an ambulence driver.  It's been many many years since I read the book, but I don't recall him being an ambulence driver in the book.

Not sure if  Maugham knew Hemmingway personally or not, but he always asserted, I beleive, that he didn't make much up in the novel...probably a complilation of 2-3 people


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 05:11:40 PM

I've always thought the line "Someday this war is gonna end" was significantly more significant.

:) yes, good recall...

I remember waiting for the rest of the thought...which of course never came...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 05:14:11 PM
a fat old guy muttering about existential malaise while banging this hot young chick.


actually...I think you just reminded me why I liked it...something to aspire to... when I'm old and senile...  :)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 05:15:58 PM
More by rote than recall. Saw it a dozen or so times. That was before the Redux version came out.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 05:35:00 PM
"That's why this scumbag lurker lurks. Boyd 'n Bottle. Bottle 'n Boyd."

The fuck are you talkin' about?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 05:37:21 PM
"That's why this scumbag lurker lurks. Boyd 'n Bottle. Bottle 'n Boyd."

The fuck are you talkin' about?

Uh, I'm a scumbag lurker. I get a kick out of your and oilcan's musings.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 23, 2007, 05:38:39 PM
I was an AOR jock in the 70s and our format was replaced by "disco" in the late 70s

So like, Dr. Johnny Fever posts here?  Awesome!

I did not get Last Tango in Paris. I just didn't see why anyone would spend one minute with Brando's insufferable character -- and I love Brando, by the way -- much less a young, attractive woman who put up with some of the crap, verbal and otherwise, that he dished out.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 05:44:00 PM
Oh, okay chaunce, I'm always welcoming to the scumbag lurker from the dank corners of cyberspace community...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 05:48:31 PM
I just didn't see why anyone would spend one minute with Brando's insufferable character -- and I love Brando, by the way -- much less a young, attractive woman who put up with some of the crap, verbal and otherwise, that he dished out.


ahh...but people do just that in relationships, don't they?   Sometimes, things seem so obvious to the outsider looking in, but when you are the one in that relationship, you are idealizing the other party and seeing them the way you want them to be -- endlessly hoping that they will change those few bad traits on their own or that you will be able to ultimately change them by showing them the way...

In the end it is nearly always equally a commentary about the abused as it is about the abuser.  There is something both parties are seeking and this is where they are currently "stuck" in their search.  Usually something in childhood and something comfortable about the person they are with...

How many of us voluntarily choose to do the work to escape from these all too common traps vs. just continue to live and complain about our plight...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 05:55:04 PM
Trojanhorse  re:#671

I only forget whether or not in the end, her mortality cured him of his penchant for enacting suicidal attention-getters.  Remember the old homily,"Suicide is a cry for attention(if not help)".[because you are not going to get any] Or, was that the film where it ends with his doing a Thelma and Louise, sort of like half of Jules et Jim?

Wouldn't you be bored at that age,with a mother who didn't have any time to relate to you whatsoever other than to correct some "socially unacceptable" habit you seemed to have when she bothered to look? I think, he is just deliriously  enlightened to discover a "kindred spirit" in this other strange little person who is not only old enough to be his mother but probably old enough to be his grandmother and so unlike his mother in any way.

He's obviously over-privileged as an only-son, which technically makes him a momma's-boy with nothing to do, who is just superfluous in every way. This has quite often produced absolute monsters, out of control socially because they don't have to get along; historically, they can, dare I say it,rule the world! or, think they can.  I spotted one show up here the other day, hasn't been seen since.

I think, though, the carefully orchestrated fake hanging was just part of Cort's "schtik". I seem to remember something about his family being in the business, vaudeville and burlesque that is, but I may be wrong.  In a way , the character that he plays, Harold, was a forerunner of someone like Philip Seymour Hoffman envisioning Capote who was in reality that strange little man in adulthood of the boy Harper Lee describes in --To Kill a Mockingbird, as having the same emotionally neglected pouting, tantruming,sissified characteristics of Bud Cort's Harold. (Which is why, I secretly feel that, although the other film made about Truman Capote, while perhaps not being as good a film in all considerations, was a better characterization of his flippant behaviour, by a little known British actor.)

In any case, acting out his hilariously suppressed Oedipal complex produces one of the most memorable film scenes of that genre ever produced. I mean, it is delightful in comparison to Helmut Berger.  It didn't seem to bother Ruth Gordon in the least, to play it as it lays, because she's beyond all that as a professional and, besides, I forgot to mention, she was a member of the Algonquin Round-table.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 06:10:39 PM
There is something both parties are seeking and this is where they are currently "stuck" in their search.  Usually something in childhood and something comfortable about the person they are with...

The documentary subject in Annie Hall talked about very much the same thing. I'll try to dig up the dialogue.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 06:13:03 PM
trojanhorse, re:#690

Of course that is what --Last Tango in Paris is about.  Was it Bertolucci's film? I can't remember.  If you recall, like the reverse of my take on Harold and Maude, there are definitely scenes of how the young actress(what ever happened to her career?) wants to get even and punish her father. I seem to recall that she either has his military hat, or he is seen in it at some point.

Recently a book was reviewed about a novel by Edith Templeton, which I read  a few years back.  It is still being discussed from the point of view that she didn't dare publish it at the time that she wrote it, since it deals with the same idea of relationship found in Last Tango in Paris.  I can't even recall the title a week or so later after seeing it probably at the nytimes.com.

Brando's character's reasoning was something else again, do you recall,after you get used to the Parisian hotel, there is also a suicide scene. In the bathtub. I am trying desperately to recall, if this was not his character, I have a vague nudge to my memory that this was a wife who got away from him.  So to speak.

Jbottle just doesn't get what I do well remember about this film. It was coming out of the theater afterward and listening to the mumblings of greasy fat old guys mumbling about their existential malaise and what they were mumbling was their public disassociation of what was depicted (which of course they knew that was what they were going to see when they paid for their ticket.  One does not go to a Brando movie without knowing the flavour of the season that he is into. I am thinking of his -- A Dry White Season, obviously. His social-consciousness often takes a turn into a more personal sphere that he seems to be working through for himself as long as he is an actor anyway and can do it publicly what's the harm in that?)

This was a god-send of voyeuristic  wish fulfillment for guys who were Brando's age but had never been in so good a shape as he had been before it all shifted.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 06:13:59 PM
Sorry, that's the documentary subject in Crimes and Misdemeanors.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 06:16:00 PM
Professor Levy: You will notice that what we are aiming at when we fall in love is a very strange paradox. The paradox consists of the fact that, when we fall in love, we are seeking to re-find all or some of the people to whom we were attached as children. On the other hand, we ask our beloved to correct all of the wrongs that these early parents or siblings inflicted upon us. So that love contains in it the contradiction: The attempt to return to the past and the attempt to undo the past.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097123/quotes


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 06:16:13 PM
I don't think "Harold and Maude" was all that deep, it was just kind of a version of the odd couple where the tension comes not because the subtext is that they are queer but sexually inapproprite in age partners.  It sets up as a series of suicide gags, really, and is redeemed by Ashby's measured approach to the material.  We don't really have to know why Harold wants to kill himself; that much is obvious, whether he is a precocious intellectual, moody art weirdo in the making, ignored & spoiled rich kid, etc., there are pretty good reasons to want to kill yourself all around, other than the basic humanity and rapport he seems to enjoy with Maude, which is enough to distract him from suicidal gesture to wanting to inquire, basically, how she was able to get old, and I think at the time it had a lot to do with realizing that there are a legion of malcontents and intellectuals of all ages and that turning 30 doesn't make you conservative and that John Lennon didn't invent karma, that's kind of what I got out of it...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 06:19:09 PM
"Jbottle just doesn't get what I do well remember about this film. It was coming out of the theater afterward and listening to the mumblings of greasy fat old guys mumbling about their existential malaise and what they were mumbling was their public disassociation of what was depicted..."

Yeah, that's what I said, that it sucked...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 23, 2007, 06:19:50 PM
I just didn't see why anyone would spend one minute with Brando's insufferable character -- and I love Brando, by the way -- much less a young, attractive woman who put up with some of the crap, verbal and otherwise, that he dished out.


ahh...but people do just that in relationships, don't they?   Sometimes, things seem so obvious to the outsider looking in, but when you are the one in that relationship, you are idealizing the other party and seeing them the way you want them to be -- endlessly hoping that they will change those few bad traits on their own or that you will be able to ultimately change them by showing them the way...

In the end it is nearly always equally a commentary about the abused as it is about the abuser.  There is something both parties are seeking and this is where they are currently "stuck" in their search.  Usually something in childhood and something comfortable about the person they are with...

How many of us voluntarily choose to do the work to escape from these all too common traps vs. just continue to live and complain about our plight...

Trojan, I know what you're saying, and I've been there at least once too often.  So under those circumstances, I walk; and I have very little patience for those who don't. 

I've seen LTIP once, and a while ago, so I'm fuzzy on some stuff.  But I could more understand putting up with the crap if the relationship was established and somehow morphed into, for lack of a better word, an abusive one.  If I recall correctly, the relationship was not an existing one; and at the first jerky thing Brando said, I'd find myself saying "Seeeya." 

And in fact, Brando's character pissed me off, so I flipped in and out of LTIP, making myself go back because it was one of those films you're supposed to see.  So admittedly, I could have missed all the good parts; but of what I saw, I was just kind of nonplussed. (And also admittedly, my going back to LTIP could be construed as classic abusee behavior -- me going back time and time again, just like Maria Shriver Schneider [Ahnuld will be so relieved!] -- but I'm not going there.)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 06:26:53 PM
I often thought the character of Larry Darrow in The Razor's Edge I reminded me of Hemingway and I found it particularly interesting in the film version with Bill Murray, that they made him an ambulence driver.  It's been many many years since I read the book, but I don't recall him being an ambulence driver in the book.

Not sure if  Maugham knew Hemmingway personally or not, but he always asserted, I beleive, that he didn't make much up in the novel...probably a complilation of 2-3 people

Compare Murray's version with that of Tyrone Power(1946). Then see what you think.  Maugham was as likely to put Ambulance Driver into the personnae because he was himself a doctor. Weird but true. Thus, you get --Of Human Bondage, with Bette Davis, while Maugham was young enough to tussle with this idea but only an idea since he was quite gay and didn't know how that would fly with his profession?  How he had time to write all his stuff is unimaginable. I started reading him very early in life when I ran into a stash in a public library, particularly the short stories.

Starring Tyrone Power, you have a supporting cast of Gene Tierney, Anne Baxter,CLIFTON WEBB,Herbert Marshall, and Elsa Lanchester. And it is very dark and hypnotic to say the least. Although I did gain a new respect for Bill Murray from seeing him in this role and discovering he was an actor and not just a comic.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 06:27:20 PM
A friend of mine always goes "Europe!?!," like, huh, that must be, uh, "Europe..."

Bertolucci, in his culture there is always the girl that you sleep with and then the mother of your children:  It's the US/Puritanical deal that makes this an uncomfortable idea generally, i.e. "That's just.....Europe," which doesn't acquit "Last Tango..." from being boring, but if I recall it was very well lit, and I haven't seen it in a while to be fair...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 06:37:11 PM
Actually, "Harold and Maude" had every right to be laughable because it was a go for broke black humor joke, and it succeeded, that's a testament to Hal Ashby, and when you think he made that and Shampoo and The Last Detail in about as short a time as Robert Towne wrote two of those and Chinatown, you have to wonder whether creativity for writers especially, comes in these bursts, or whether it is creative freedom that allows for the creativity, or whether nobody has more than three good books, movies, etc., in them, and even the greats, other than Shakespeare, I mean, who made more than three good albums, movies, acting gigs, obviously paintings are excluded and nevermind because Scorcese and De Palma have each made at least four great movies, okay, I quit...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 06:53:25 PM
jbottle, #696

"to wanting to inquire, basically, how she was able to get old,"

Thanks! I had forgotten about that aspect; it was actually in the dialogue.

Now what is this about Bertolucci's culture:
"there is always the girl that you sleep with and then the mother of your children:"

You could have fooled me.  I think the first thing that i saw of his was --
1900 (with  Donald Sutherland as the known actor. The unknowns were Robert De Niro and Gerard Depardieu!)  although one or the other of these latter actors has a mother who is shown en-haloed for all practical purposes and redeems Italian motherhood from the perpetual strega of other film directors.   In fact, when ever I can get away with it,the Bertolucci version, as I try to get into character with that image, because it works.  I suppose that is because my husband had an Italian mistress.

But honestly I can't see Bertolucci's films as you describe them. The Last Emperor;The Sheltering Sky; Stealing Beauty, etc.?

1900 was to me very male-based while primarily political.  Are you sure you are not thinking FELLINI?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 06:56:26 PM
chauncey.g  #695

Best part of Crimes and Misdemeanors, Jerry Orbach as Jack Rosenthal.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 07:10:10 PM
chauncey.g  #695

Best part of Crimes and Misdemeanors, Jerry Orbach as Jack Rosenthal.

Do you mean you didn't think much of the film and Jerry Orbach's portrayal saved it for you? Or was his participation the icing on a wunnerful cake?

I believe it is one of if not Woody's finest. I agree that Orbach kicked much butt as the mobster with a clean conscience. I've mentioned before (back at the nytimes, i believe) that casting him as Martin Landau's brother was a stroke of genius. Or just so damn obvious that I coulda cast it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 23, 2007, 07:22:20 PM
Hey Chauncey G - Did you get your handle from "Being There"?  I remember liking it a lot, but it's probably been 10 years since I've seen it.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 07:26:04 PM
chauncey.g  #695

Best part of Crimes and Misdemeanors, Jerry Orbach as Jack Rosenthal.

Do you mean you didn't think much of the film and Jerry Orbach's portrayal saved it for you? Or was his participation the icing on a wunnerful cake?

I believe it is one of if not Woody's finest. I agree that Orbach kicked much butt as the mobster with a clean conscience. I've mentioned before (back at the nytimes, i believe) that casting him as Martin Landau's brother was a stroke of genius. Or just so damn obvious that I coulda cast it.

I thought it was a great film, probably went to see it for Angelica Huston. Landau is always impressive. But it seems to me that this film was even before his work on, Law and Order. Or, am I wrong? Orbach that is.  I go along with your take;  while having forgotten how matter of fact he was about his commitment.

Just thinking back on it makes me realize how I probably missed some of the best acting around at the time, since I connected to his vibe late in the game. It may be that he reminds me of a lot of the flavor of New York as I knew it,just by being himself.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 07:28:55 PM
Hey Chauncey G - Did you get your handle from "Being There"?  I remember liking it a lot, but it's probably been 10 years since I've seen it.



Yes. That's another flick I watch repeatedly. The vhs I have includes some outtakes of Chance asking the docotr (or is he a nurse?) if he is Raphael. Hilarious stuff.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 23, 2007, 07:40:03 PM
trojanhorse, re:#690
"Recently a book was reviewed about a novel by Edith Templeton, which I read  a few years back.  It is still being discussed from the point of view that she didn't dare publish it at the time that she wrote it, since it deals with the same idea of relationship found in Last Tango in Paris"

And obviously it was somewhere else than the nytimes.com because checking for it realized, that where-ever I recently found it under my nose, it had been lifted verbatim from the review of March 2003.

 
http://tinyurl.com/2evv2q

Gordon, by Edith Templeton


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 07:59:57 PM
"Being There" is a great movie but a weird movie for me, bacause I knew that it was out from seeing the ads and playing, I guess in 1981, at a theater a bike ride away when I was 12 or so...so I asked a buddy to go to the like 3:30 showing, but he was late, and so I was standing at this corner, and then I walked to his house and he was kind of a ding-dong and was oh, yeah, I forgot, so we went.  I didn't really think about the fact that it was a pretty adult movie, so I was thinking it was a Peter Sellers comedy but it was very political and darkly comic.  I remember understanding most of it, the joke that any idiot could be President by spouting aphorisms, but I was largely confused, and clearly not at a movie my mother would have approved of...I think I thought about that movie a lot, though, and in trying to figure it out I didn't want to not understand the point most of all, and then I kind of went from there with loving movies.  Yeah, I remember the outtakes where he is on the guerney or whatever and it was a good way to end the movie, and great performance or whatever, but I don't think it's a perfect film, I think it's a strange film, but ultimately shooting for something it doesn't attain, or not knowing the true mark.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 08:29:06 PM
I'm splitting hairs because it's a great film, I originally took my tagline from Jbottlerocket, but reduced it because of the immediate connection to a film that I love, and didn't think of yours in that way, and my abbreviation has gone on as emblematic of my love for "the bottle," which I cannot deny, but it ain't the whole story.  I'm not at all dismissive of "Being There," but it remains a kind of mystery to me because it's connected to my childhood in a way.

Anyhow, just saw the "Mohawks" part of the Irish film, and it held up well as a song and as a scene, pretty well done considering that if it doesn't, the movie looks cheap, and it looks great, I mean "Breakfast..." of course, couldn't think of the name right away but the concert scene works and those never do.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 09:20:02 PM
I think that if you say "Pull out the wife-beater, Freddy..." as Funk reaches into his bag, he's going to stop in his tracks, and then you follow up with "You're the man, taco..." 

"Eminence front, sweet cakes, focus for bunny treats..."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 09:40:03 PM
"Being There" was pretty much just a Peter Sellers vehicle for me when I first saw it. And though I was already in my 20s when it came out, I was just a stoner and heavy drinker who had just flunked out of school with absolutely no direction. Hmmm... not a whole lot has changed except that I gave up drinking.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 23, 2007, 09:43:59 PM
Oh, and I got around to renting O. C. and Stiggs (still sitting here on my desk). Don't know how I missed out on seeing this one. 'Course, I haven't seen Nashville either. I'll get around to that one soon, I hope.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 23, 2007, 10:11:49 PM
I think that if you say "Pull out the wife-beater, Freddy..." as Funk reaches into his bag, he's going to stop in his tracks, and then you follow up with "You're the man, taco..." 

"Eminence front, sweet cakes, focus for bunny treats..."

Funny you mention that -- Funk is doing pretty well. I mean, if you believe the news and stuff.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 10:20:09 PM
Yeah, will be watching on Sun., not too late, harrie, to scalp and yowlp.

Yeah, chaunce, "The Party Animal" and "Mike's Murder" should also be on your short list along with the odd Nixon paranoia flicks like "The Parallax View" and "Condor," essential rule of 2's material.

When I was unemployed and only watching "Swamp Theater" on Turner South in my early 30's, I narrowly avoided acute psychosis while developing an unhealthy Debra Winger fascination, but that doesn't mean you should be discouraged.  Michael Chrichton's "Looker" and DePalma's "Body Double" should also not be overlooked, and think about drinking beer again, it's not really drinking and only staying amused.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 11:26:08 PM
I had no idea that "Lady in the Water" would be as terrible as it is:  The evil dog is made of pot, I mean, there are so many WTF's in this film that terrorists should target each WTF, destroy in the name of allah, or jbottle, just burn baby burn...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 23, 2007, 11:47:55 PM
I had no idea that "Lady in the Water" would be as terrible as it is...

It was most definitely terrible, but I submit that Paul Giamatti comes out of it looking pretty good.  I don't know if you made it to the end of the movie, but his big-emotional scene was very moving, which is saying something given the movie's general silliness.

Oh, and a few weeks ago Barton came up with some great movie title spoonersims, but he missed Din Viesel in "The Riddicles of Chronick".



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 11:48:07 PM
Yeah, that sucked.

I guess Paul Giamatti played a psychotic guy who killed Ron Howard's daughter and committed suicide and was floating in the pool at the end and a lot of it was just dementia or a dream.

Either way, I'll never watch it again now that I know that Giamatti kept a girl in his bathroom who was dead and decaying, which eventually came to light.....but that dog was made of pot.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 23, 2007, 11:50:02 PM
Oh, and I got around to renting O. C. and Stiggs...

Keep in mind that it was Robert Altman's expression of how much he disliked the 1980's teen-smart-aleck-comedy genre, as well as the Lampoon source material.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 23, 2007, 11:50:42 PM
My post was a "Warning:  Someone Posted" Post, so tell me what really happened I was on beer and wandering around in between, but there really was a lot of greenery, one scene opening the third act with the dog sounded and looked like a huge bonghit, but I could be adding in a lot of psychology to it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 23, 2007, 11:55:32 PM
...at which point Superman raised an eyebrow, and Luthor just knew, without Superman even having to say a word, that it was time to break off a small sliver of Krypto and see what happens after a few bong hits of it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 24, 2007, 12:07:18 AM
Well, when you know you are arch enemies and not likely to off each other in this particular escapade, Luthor sort of flashes the krypt, and Supes is like, I knew you were holding, you're not really going to throw that on a brother tonight are you, and then Hackman takes out a pocketknife and says, fuckit, why don't we smoke this krypt and have a kind of superman/luthor truce for the night and play some video games.   Then they both relax, because then the whole world isn't in the balance and they are able to chill.  At one point Luthor raises an eyebrow and tells Supes to finish the whole bowl, and Supes gets a little suspicious of whether he is being duped, but then he realized that Luthor had already smoked a little and seemed fine even though he was from Earth. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 01:04:22 AM
 Maugham was as likely to put Ambulance Driver into the personnae because he was himself a doctor.


Hemingway was an ambulence driver in World War I.  When I saw the Bill Murray version I always suspected that someone in the know was lifting a veil...  not confirmed - just suspected...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 01:11:57 AM

Gordon, by Edith Templeton

that sounds like one version alright...thanks

I liked the line "I shall hold you forever because i'll always find new ways of torturing you..."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 01:26:46 AM
"Being There" is a great movie but a weird movie for me,

but I don't think it's a perfect film, I think it's a strange film, but ultimately shooting for something it doesn't attain, or not knowing the true mark.

You're spot on...  I'll speak for myself on this one...when I call Being There "a Great Movie," I don't mean it in the same sense that you would call casablanca or Citizen Kane  a great movie...I think it's just a figure of speech.  I really enjoyed Peter Sellers and this is probably my favorite movie of his...there for a Great movie like you would say that was a Great game after watching your favorite team win...

But some of the best movies (like great literature) are not meant to have a clear mark - they are somewhat left open to interpretation of the viewer (or reader) and I think Being There was very much that way.  For instance how are you supposed to read the last scene when he is quite literally "walking on water?"  Was it another political joke that he could do no wrong -- or was it that he was pure and innocent and therefore could be likened to God -- or was it that there really was more to him than even we had supposed all along?  I'm sure there are many other possible interpretations also...

Take a few more points like this during the course of the movie and it could really mean completely different things to two different people...

I just thought it was hilarious--I didn't need to think about it anymore than that to like it...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 24, 2007, 01:37:47 AM
Keep in mind that it was Robert Altman's expression of how much he disliked the 1980's teen-smart-aleck-comedy genre, as well as the Lampoon source material.

He does mention difficulties with the Lampoon writers during the dvd interview.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 24, 2007, 01:44:16 AM
Take a few more points like this during the course of the movie and it could really mean completely different things to two different people...

One angle of the dinner scene in Ben's house obscures Chauncey a bit. You know he's there, but can't really see him as Ben is expanding on the "garden" theme. God is over for dinner.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 01:47:33 AM
there's a lot there for sure...

I haven't seen the outtakes, but the one you mentioned reminds me of when he is on the street and runs into the gang -- doesn;t he ask them if they know Rafael also?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 24, 2007, 01:51:52 AM
Yes, and the next black man he sees is the doctor (or nurse) at Ben's house and he asks him, "Are you Raphael? I have a message for you..." or something like that.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 24, 2007, 01:59:45 AM
Sorry, having trouble sleeping and ain't reading correctly.

He encounters the gang early in the movie and the gang leader asks if Raphael sent him and says he's got a message for Raphael. Then later at Ben's house Chance relays the message to the doctor (or nurse).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 02:25:01 AM
that sounds right...a chuckle around every corner, that movie


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 24, 2007, 09:06:06 AM

Gordon, by Edith Templeton

that sounds like one version alright...thanks

I liked the line "I shall hold you forever because i'll always find new ways of torturing you..."
Templeton made clear that she wasn't able "to admit" to writing this account,although it is her experience, which I bring up because I think harrie was the one who mentioned  going back to the scenes of Last Tango in Paris and would look at the film again to be sure of  getting it right; but Templeton knew that it was  a reality( the story of "Gordon"), she just wasn't  ready to expect other women would cop to it. Now all the time later, actually not much but, a better way to put it is, "a generation later" women are recommending this book to their friends as an insight. Up until now, she understood that it wasn't "fashionable" among "feminist writers", as the movement might have been called,and the attitude of the generation had been to condemn the acceptance of this conduct. 

Since she had written it for herself as her own personal experience, it doesn't occur to her that it is a more inclusive picture of reality  and that it isn't sexual gender identity but something more basic in individual human development which Freud had merely coded down as, one is either into dominance or submission, while trying to figure himself out (the other author's name was on the tip of my tongue, for having catalogued variants of sexual behaviour, can't recall the years of his publication but, he might have rather said it is more likely an alternating pattern of behaviour).  My rather disgruntled opinion recently is that what has happened and seemed obvious to me is that "every generation gets the psychologists that they deserve"; when compared to art, they do rather badly.  Templeton has an unusual ability  to show you immediately and clearly; certainly just as clearly as the Bertlucci film.

I find it astounding that  yesterday in writing about Last Tango in Paris, that  going on four decades later, I recalled it in images as if seen yesterday (or, maybe last week in television and internet terms, now that we deal with so many more visuals)and that I remembered the suicide as imperative to the story (and I also remembered but didn't feel ready to say it, about Brando's performance as an examination of  his own emotions on the subject, that this predates his actually having to deal with the reality in his own family ).

Just to be sure that I hadn't made up the image and put it into the plot-line of Bertolucci's intention, I went and checked the original reviews; and, all I can see is that Vincent Canby loved this film and really got it.  He devoted 14 paragraphs to praising what he saw.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 10:18:03 AM

  My rather disgruntled opinion recently is that what has happened and seemed obvious to me is that "every generation gets the psychologists that they deserve";


Your entire post was very well thought out.

I like this line particularly as it is a humourous way of saying it...   perhaps another way of saying it is they get what they are ready to hear.  There are various philosophies that delve into it, by I am always amazed at the phenomenon that when you are ready, more information (and specific information) often appears or unfolds to you -- even if it was sitting on your own bookshelf all along, you may never notice it until that day that you are ready to hear it and understand it.

Different thought, but maybe we could also say every generation gets the movies they deserve.

And, I don't know, although we tend to look at art differently, I might add "every generation gets the art they deserve" also. Many things have always been there for people ...waiting for them to be ready...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 24, 2007, 02:12:36 PM
Saw A Scanner Darkly and found it a strain to watch, though as usual Phil Dick's uneven (often rambling, often just pulpy-bad) writing is mended in a screenplay and nets a film better than the source book or short story. I liked Keanu and Winona, and some scenes spoofing psychological testing were clever and funny, but somehow it had a stale quality overall (which "futurizing" the 70s drug paranoia and ideas failed to freshen) and Robert Downey Jr. was just painful to watch. Rory Cochrane just settled for bad caricature and collected his check. You can rotoscope all you want, but sometimes bad is bad and there's no concealing it with funny cartoony lines and wiggly things.

Only for hardened Dick fans.

You didn't think you'd get out of this without at least one Philip K. Dick pun, did you?



 


Title: Re: Russian Ark
Post by: peloux on June 24, 2007, 03:33:40 PM
Any thoughts on "Russian Ark"? I just saw it yesterday and was looking for some commentary...

I enjoyed very much despite 1) I don’t a whole lot about Russian history, and 2) my habit of knowing as little as little as possible about a movie before watching. I loved the bit with Catherine and I was mesmerized by the final scene, the Czarist Ball. Just like you were right there which is the idea I guess. I immediately went back and saw the entire sequence again. The all-in-one-take method added to the effect (For those who don’t know, the entire movie was a single take. I’ll try not be cynical as it would not be difficult with today’s technnology to fake that. But I think probably real and not a gimmick either. The continuity is appropriate to the subject matter, a history.) The effect of the last scene was marred (for me), however, by the  appearance of Valery Gergiev as the orchestra conductor, who I and others will immediately recognize. They might have chosen someone less famous.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 24, 2007, 03:49:19 PM
I don't think "Evan" is going to cut it at $30M for a $200 + Million flick, while suspense/noir/horror "1408," does $20 on 1/5th the budget.  Huh.  That's the problem with "high concept," it's easy to get worked up over, but it can go poof very fast.  I suppose the suits will be running for cover on the "Well, we thought Steve Carell was a STAR, and we made a mistake...," but the truth of it is that it was a bad idea, mainly because people already know the story of Noah's Ark.  Tell a different story, and CGI animals aren't cutting it. 

As uneven as Steven King adaptations are, you can still say "From the master of horror..." and Cusack is a reasonably likable screen presence, so there you go...easy dough...

As "Knocked" cruises past 100 taking in an additional 10 this weekend, you know the suits are aching for Carell to reprise his role as T40YOV, but it's a little like Titanic II or Shindler's List II:  Shindler's Pissed or whatever, I mean, I've been tossing the idea around in my head and can't think of a workable idea, I could see Carrell being involved in toy product design, and hiring all the guys that used to work at the [Best Buy] with him.....but where's the dramatic impetus of "When will they discover he is a virgin?"/"How Will He Getlaid"/"He Getslaid..."  Easy three acts, hard to figure a remake but any decent idea and people will line up just to see those guys rip on each other again...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 24, 2007, 06:32:39 PM
Barton,
Too bad about Rory Cochrane.  I usually like his work.

re Evan Almighty -- I thought the advertising alone killed it, with the whole "from the director who gave you Bruce Almighty...."   I mean, the joke's been done, even if it's a slightly different joke. Why not call it Evan's Ark?  Or Paired Up

IMO -- and we all know what that's worth -- $200 mil is way too much to spend on a flick like that in the first place. I feel bad for Steve Carrell, but hey, welcome to the industry; nobody gets up and stays up forever. (I blame Barton's influence for that.)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: weezo on June 24, 2007, 06:56:20 PM
I agree with the stinker in the advertising of Evan Almighty. I does sound like a re-run of Bruce Almighty, which I thought had a handful of cute scenes, but overall it was a dull movie. I saw in on Satellite a few months ago and probably won't watch it again when it comes back. It isn't even entertaining enough to hold me while I work at the computer, listening to the movie and watching favorite scenes.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 24, 2007, 07:31:58 PM
"...nobody gets up and stays up forever..."

"Never feel sorry for a guy with a plane..."

Not really, but I'm sure it's just been a blast for Carrell, and he's made a lot of dough, mostly from the unlikely success of "The Office" in addition to the "Evan" paycheck of what, $12M?

It's rarefied air and he will be as funny as the material is, typically, and also, when you're in the joke business, you don't want CGI competing with you telling jokes, it almost never works.  "The Mask" I would guess is an exception, but I never thought Carrey was very good with his outlandish characters, he has been best in "Dumb and Dumber" and "The Cable Guy," with more of a deadpan loser than an amped up fart monkey that people seem to adore, but that's me.


Title: Raphael
Post by: chauncey.g on June 24, 2007, 08:26:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqwc51j3MO4


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 24, 2007, 08:30:16 PM
Hard to believe that yesterday I didn't mention my favorite character actor (well 1A and 1B along with M.Emmet) Jack Warden. He was great in Shampoo, Being There and Heaven Can Wait especially. The scene where he realizes he is talking to Joe Pendleton never fails to bring a tear to my eye. Whatta guy.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 24, 2007, 09:45:04 PM
And Justice For All


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 24, 2007, 10:00:13 PM
N.Y.P.D.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 24, 2007, 10:03:27 PM
Warden is great in "Shampoo," and if it was a generational film the script wouldn't have taken such a charitable liking to him, he's not a stick-figure for Nixonian conservatism and capitalism, and neither is Beatty a emblem for free love and not gathering his own nut.  That's why it's so real and so good.  Beatty is ultimately jealous, and wants Warden's money, and is playing a game that collapses on him, which if he could really walk away from it he would be fine if he were as carefree as he plainly isn't, that's the problem, and that's why he's so alone, and basically everybody is, at the end.

Anyway, great Sellers moments, especially how he cracks himself up with the way his character says "ass...hole," that's what the character would do, funny stuff.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 24, 2007, 11:27:15 PM
"You think this is bad...you outta be drunk in Fresno, California..."--Benny, trying to assuage his baby that the shithole they just bought an overnight room in is somehow, better...

"I promise to put the grave back just right..."

A filmmaker is a grave-robber of a sort, or is that the only thing they do...I fucking love "Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, even if it gets 1.5 stars on my cable people.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 25, 2007, 03:58:59 AM
re Evan Almighty -- I thought the advertising alone killed it, with the whole "from the director who gave you Bruce Almighty...."   I mean, the joke's been done, even if it's a slightly different joke. Why not call it Evan's Ark?  Or Paired Up? 

Or Two by Two.  The problem with Evan is that it doesn't look like a $200 mil movie, rather an all too obvious cross between Bruce and Santa Clause.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 25, 2007, 08:41:56 AM
Russian Ark is one of those magical films that carry you away even if you know nothing about Russian history or literature.  Of course, if you do it doubles the pleasure because there are so many motifs that run through movie like the cameos of Pushkin.  The whispers and the little intrigues all have references.  It was one of the most lavishly produced Russian films since independence and is a glowing tribute to the Hermitage.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 25, 2007, 09:32:53 AM
"Never feel sorry for a guy with a plane..."

Not really, but I'm sure it's just been a blast for Carrell, and he's made a lot of dough, mostly from the unlikely success of "The Office" in addition to the "Evan" paycheck of what, $12M?

Oh, don't get me wrong.  I like Steve Carrell; and if anyone who is not me is going to collect an outrageous paycheck, it might as well be him. I mean, it's like the studio guys talk Carrell up as the next coming based on T40YOV (and The Office if you count TV), which is fine; except that it's a short track record to judge by.

But the studio guys don't know what they're doing, and don't want anyone else to know they don't know what they're doing, so they make Carrell "the next one," talk him up endlessly, and write him huge checks.  Hopefully Carrell is smart enough to realize this and not believe his own publicity; but it's hard not to when everyone is saying such nice things about you.  It seems there's always a landing of some kind, whether bumpy (Tom Sizemore) or less bumpy (Ashley Judd maybe?), and I hope Carrell handles it well. 

Dzimas, Thank you for Two by Two.  I'm terrible at that stuff, can you tell?

We watched Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia once, but had too much fun with it.  When they had the funeral -- for a baby, I think? the coffin was small -- the hubby was like, "This is where they're burying the plot."  I have heard raves about it from a number of people, so would like to give it another watch sometime.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 25, 2007, 09:45:02 AM
Harrie -- I don't know Rory Cochrane's work all that well.  Someone told me he was a forensic guy who got killed on the Miami version of CSI.  He is kind of funny in the "making of" interview on the Scanner Darkly DVD -- everyone else is all, hey Linklater works with actors so well, he lets us be creative, lets us try new things, wondeful synergy, bla bla blah, the usual DVD tripe....and Cochrane is like, I don't know, the director might be something of a tyrannical megalomaniac and I was never sure what he really wanted and my twitchy-guy thing probably was totally wrong, etc.  Made me totally like him.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 25, 2007, 10:12:29 AM
Barton,

Cochrane was in Dazed and Confused (more Linklater, right?), but mostly I know him from Empire Records, where he stole a lot of scenes (IMHO), and a small flick called The Prime Gig. TPG was pretty depressing and Cochrane played an angle of Ratso Rizzo -- Ratso Lite, maybe -- but I was impressed. Admittedly, it probably doesn't take much to impress me, though.

I never watched him on CSI -- I don't have the attention span for those shows.  I did hear he left the show because he just didn't want to do TV; but I checked IMDB and it doesn't look like he has much of anything coming up.  Hopefully he's working somewhere -- maybe theater?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 25, 2007, 10:28:17 AM
My son has been telling me to see The Prime Gig for some time now.  I will add it to my queue.  (what's with that extra "ue" anyway?  isn't one "ue" sufficient to get the notion across?)  I do vaguely remember Cochrane from Dazed and Confused.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 10:34:45 AM

"Never feel sorry for a guy with a plane..."


:)   good one...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 10:37:16 AM
THis moring I noticed two different estimates fro Evan.   I saw the $32 and how dissappointing it was and then I saw another one that was more like $52.  The odd thing is they were both "top 5" lists and 2-4 tied out precisely.

What do you make of that?   A mistake in the earlier estimate of $32?   Or after the fact "attempted damage control?"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 25, 2007, 10:45:48 AM
Not to rain on your parade, or pee in your cornflakes, but who cares how many suckers paid to see yet another tripe-filled hollywood sequel?  What is the fascination with box office here??   I can only refer you to Mr. Clemens who observed that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.  I'm sure there are a million ways to assemble BO figures, and none of them address the actual quality of the films in question.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 10:47:09 AM
I actually saw Evan yesterday with my wife and 5 year old.

While I'm certain there will not be much critcal acclaim, I actually liked the movie a lot.  There were plenty of silly, slapstick laughs, and a nice message about family loyalty and how God might act being different than how we might expect.  Morgan's essentially says at the end, if someone prays for courage, should God give him courage or should God present him with an opportunity to find courage within himself--even if that opportunity seems like a negative at the time.

I agree though...I can't understand who would approve a budget of $175MM to make the movie.  That doesn't make much sense.

I also saw "making of" and all of the animals were shot live -- though many on blue screen...   They also actually built that monstrosity - so you can imagine how much they had to pay just to rent the land that they built and shot on  -- these two items along with actors salaries add up I guess -- although I can't quite make that math add up...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 25, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
The "plane" joke was paraphrasing A-Hop from "The Edge."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 11:02:02 AM

I agree though...I can't understand who would approve a budget of $175MM to make the movie.  


Maybe God is giving a studio exec an opportunity


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 25, 2007, 11:11:31 AM
My son has been telling me to see The Prime Gig for some time now.  I will add it to my queue.  (what's with that extra "ue" anyway?  isn't one "ue" sufficient to get the notion across?)  I do vaguely remember Cochrane from Dazed and Confused.



It's Glengarry Glen Ross-ish but a little quieter, and I like the cast a lot.  Or I like a lot of the cast.  Or both.

And I'll be honest -- I don't know what a movie forum would be without Monday morning quarterbacking.  Sure, it means nothing, and box office success does not necessarily equal artistic merit or even basic quality.  But it's fun to kibbitz and act like we know something and/or have any control over things.  (Just my opinion, hope nobody feels dragged in or down by the use of "we.")

That's funny, I was thinking that one way to hold down costs on Evan Almighty would be to keep easily available, highly trainable animals -- dogs, horses, pigs, chimpanzees, monkeys, etc. -- in the front of the ark and just kind of have the other guys milling around in the background.  Hopefully not eating each other or anything.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 25, 2007, 11:29:43 AM
Not to rain on your parade, or pee in your cornflakes, but who cares how many suckers paid to see yet another tripe-filled hollywood sequel?  What is the fascination with box office here??   I can only refer you to Mr. Clemens who observed that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.  I'm sure there are a million ways to assemble BO figures, and none of them address the actual quality of the films in question.

As you well know, box office revenues have been the staple of movie discussions.  They do serve as a statement on an actor's or director's or producer's market ability. The figures are stacked, that's for sure.  The same way record and book sales reflect the number of discs and books distributed, not those actually sold, which is why so many end up in bargain bins.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 25, 2007, 11:34:23 AM
Here's another idea:  No animals.  God tells Evan to give away all his woldly possessions and he and his family move to a remote log cabin where all modern conveniences are gone, they begin to grow their own food, he takes away his kid's PSPs, and has a close "squeal like a pig moment" that is narrowly averted by divine intervention (deliverance from evil).  In a booming voice God says "LEARN TO PLAY THE BANJO, EVAN..."  Evan says "Really?"  God says:  Not really, but you should pick up a hobby.  

It's like "Mosquito Coast" meets "RV," not a dry eye in the house.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 25, 2007, 11:49:02 AM
There could be a grizzly bear lurking in the woods just for added tension.  It kills their pet dog.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 25, 2007, 12:22:32 PM
Nah, it's turns out to be a drunk furrie from the plushie party next door, in a cameo by Gary Busey.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 01:05:55 PM
Here's another idea:  No animals.  God tells Evan to give away all his woldly possessions and he and his family move to a remote log cabin where all modern conveniences are gone,


There may actually be an opening at one of the studios soon--perhaps you should apply...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 25, 2007, 01:34:54 PM
Jbot -- I much prefer your "treatment" for the Evan that was never made.  And, if bad things happen to the main character, please let him be played by Robert Downey Jr.  My personal dream is to see RDJr. swarmed by locusts -- and I hear locusts are easy to train, so far as swarming goes. 

Regarding Trojan's:

"There were plenty of silly, slapstick laughs, and a nice message about family loyalty and how God might act being different than how we might expect."

Fair enough.  If you can enjoy it on that basis, then more power to you.  Though I feel there is a plethora of nice messages about family loyalty, some find that kind of thing bracing and uplifting and so on.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 25, 2007, 02:09:45 PM
barton, re:#764

Jbot -- I much prefer your "treatment" for the Evan that was never made.  And, if bad things happen to the main character, please let him be played by Robert Downey Jr.  My personal dream is to see RDJr. swarmed by locusts -- and I hear locusts are easy to train, so far as swarming goes.

Ah, you mean Nathaniel West's, Day of the Locust !


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: fersanti on June 25, 2007, 05:03:31 PM
Dzimas, peloux, thanks for your answers. I thought it was quite beautiful and, indeed, the single-take format was very interesting. In a way, it was like being in the theatre, but inside the play, so to speak. For non-Russologists, though, that was pretty much it: with some ideas of Russian history - I read some books some time ago - I was at pains to follow much of it; I knew enough to know there was much to read that I was incapable of reading.
The single-take brought to mind in a second that beautiful first scene in Altman's The Player (was it?) when he does a very long take while Hollywood sharks talk about how all cinema is short take - cut - short take - cut, etc.
The Hermitage itself, the costumes, the ambience, though, where beautiful.
I prefer story-telling, though. It might be a bit closed on my part, but I prefer good stories well told than mere photography.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 25, 2007, 09:02:32 PM
Yeah, thanks harrie and bart, I don't think anything with blue screen is a good idea unless you have Harry Potter or Spiderman, a known entity, so I don't think it's brain surgery or rocket science to decide not to spend money on "Evan" when you can always make "Iron Man," or any number or superhero movies for less...it's just a poor allocation of resources, especially when you remember that T40YOV was not only a very funny title, concept, trailer, and ultiamately film, when you've only got Steve Carrell a relatively unknown quantity especially to children, and Morgan Freeman, so what?, and then the idea that you are going to market the film to churchgoing people who look at whatever Hollywood produces as heresy, especially to appropriate the story of Noah without the proper gravitas.

Seriously, make "The Ark that Noah Built" and do it straight with no stars and you will make money...

But don't make Bible jokes and expect bible people to come, they all, especially here in the South don't even think metaphorically about the bible, so jokes are a stretch...

I don't see the need for the film ultimately, it doesn't really fill any family-friendly fare space that isn't easily otherwise allocated.  The problem is that it's a snowball rolling downhill and it just never stops until everybody is convinging everybody that it's really funny and everybody is going to get rich...and nobody has the sack or the sobriety to put on the brakes...

Put me at studio head and I could look at a list of titles and use a red marker to scratch a quarter of the films based on title and cast and director alone.  The other quarter are no brainers, the middle ones you allocate more or less money to and have meetings to make sure, I mean, if you could keep your head for 18 mos. and be an audience instead of an ego stroker, you would make money for somebody hand over fist, guaranteed. 

Truth is:  Nobody Knows Anything, and EA is just the latest exhibit.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 26, 2007, 12:17:42 AM
"Evan" also had that kind of reverse "Alien 3" creep to the production;  the kid movie that sucked instead of the whole rated R David Fincher screwed the franchise script trouble problem: but the buzz about budget (or being a 3-yr. production in the Fincher/Alien case) can cast a shadow sometimes, and not all the time, despite popular misconception, "Waterworld" made people a lot of money in a relatively short period of time, it was a "modest hit," or "break even" at best, and keep in mind that part of those budgets are just making individuals rich and ultimately only the studio and the deep pockets suffer, not the ones who acted in or made it, so a loss on paper is simply a tax writeoff, "Hollywood accounting," etc., but actually I had a chance to catch up with A3 and it's a good movie, in my opinion, perhaps before it's time and not marketed properly.  There are also machinations at work because nobody loves company like misery:  When there is bad buzz and you were the last guy sucker-punched you whisper the other guy bad, it's lousy human nature, but I think that Ripley with the shaven head would be more of an appealing ad campaign these days, you never know whether there are internal problems with cash flow, but you can shove Alien down their throat if you have the gutessence to pay weirdos to sell something that you payed real money to make...it's a weird game, but I think a new Alien picture is about the perfect box-office remedy for what, '09?  It almost writes itself...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 26, 2007, 12:35:02 AM
For non-Russologists, though, that was pretty much it: with some ideas of Russian history - I read some books some time ago - I was at pains to follow much of it; I knew enough to know there was much to read that I was incapable of reading.

Don't forget that the intended audience was Russian.  I don't think Sokurov expected anyone other than Russophiles to watch it outside of the country.  I think it was the "one take" concept that drew in additional viewers.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 26, 2007, 12:37:56 AM
Bible stories have a ready made audience, provided of course they are done straight up.  Evan seems aimed more at the 6-13 age group, with parents forced to bear it.  But then it can't be any worse than Vin Diesel's The Pacifier.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 26, 2007, 11:53:52 AM
But then it can't be any worse than Vin Diesel's The Pacifier.

Or any better than Din Viesel's "The Riddicles Of Chronick".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 26, 2007, 11:58:37 AM
Pitch Black was worth watching IMHO. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 26, 2007, 12:16:22 PM
I thought it was kind of dark.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 26, 2007, 12:35:12 PM
But not in pinot noir kind of way.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: law120b on June 26, 2007, 01:47:31 PM
bottle, i saw a preview of wedding crashers long before final cut, and said, diplomatically of course, no way jose.  who can identify with two guys whose game is to do as stupid and gauche a gig as one could imagine?  this was a sure failure. 

the people who think they can play audience generally are back in tallahassee running the cleaning store in a season or two.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: sugarblues on June 26, 2007, 03:21:10 PM
Catch and Release - Rented this movie over the weekend.  Found the movie predicable and sad at times.  I did enjoy the sound track.  One part I enjoyed was the dinner scene.  Thought I would watch the movie again to see if I missed anything but haven' t had the chance.  On a scale from 1 - 10(10 being the highest) I would rate a 6


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 26, 2007, 03:41:54 PM
Also saw this recently.  Netflixed due to Timothy Olyphant (liked him in Deadwood) can't say that I could sit through it more than once...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on June 26, 2007, 04:44:39 PM
Olyphant is the villain in the upcoming Die Hard installment.   Just Olyphant news....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 26, 2007, 06:46:11 PM
Speaking of dark, I saw this
http://imdb.com/title/tt0368725/
on the Sundance channel (or a similar one) and was gripped, not just because I usually am by anything Vanessa Redgrave does.  On imdb I found it was written by Wallace Shawn, smacked my forehead and said "Of course!"

Anyone else see this and care to comment?


No, haven't seen it but I'll swap you one. There are no big stars in this one, except "the President".

I'd be just as interested in reactions to this because I recall the question coming up at nytimes.com, in an article, when this was released; and they were comparing it somewhat with a book  about two men having a discussion in a  hotel room about the  exact same thing, more on the lines of a confession of having considered and now telling his friend that he was going ahead with it. Whereas the Book Review pages thought nothing much one way or another about promoting, or publishing, or reading a book, the attitude about the suitability of a film was something else again and my understanding was that it had been made by the British? Looks like Canada,here.


http://imdb.com/title/tt0853096/


As I haven't seen The Fever, will look on HBO, until then have just one thing to say about it; it prompts me to say that it looks like " The Revolutionary Daughter of The Revolutionary" which starred of course Jon Voight.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 26, 2007, 11:22:37 PM
The problem with Vin Diesel is that he doesn't have an ounce of humor. The Pacifier was supposed to show the lighter side of him, but it was pretty much the same old Vinnie.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 27, 2007, 01:07:52 AM
Anybody that says, oh yeah, I guess Carrell isn't Carrey, can take comfort in the all out sell dome that Carrey did on "23," that whole I'm going to go into Conan all Goth at age 40 and be funny, edgy, weird, you know sell...

...didn't work out so hot, so the vacuum that was created by the number 23 is about what shoved the studio into a replacement for Carrey, or not, who cares...

My point is that Jim Carrey can't deliver John Cusack numbers on the same movie up against his franchise that should bury the Cusack movie...that's the thing that was bothering me the whole time...man, where is Carrey when you need him, uh, your boy is making "23," which, because you thought it was art didn't sign on for "Evan," yeah, who knows, but we do know this.  Cusack made "23" and it was called "1408" against your old franchise, in other words, the slum movie/art movie that you wanted to make while rewrites were available for the "Almighty" franchise," somebody like Cusack is watching you screw yourself and counterpunching the thing you created.

Hell:  "1409" is not looking nearly as ridiculous as another "Almighty" entry, which as a sequel might be as "paddles" as any studio was ever able to muster.

My other point:  Be glad, Jim Carrey, that you weren't in EA even though Cusack was basically in 23, ironically taking 2/3rds of the box office dough for a movie, by most accounts, i.e., adult, "R", "shadows," the same one that you released, i.e., a "number movie," a "Jordan movie," a "bomb..."

Yeah, my brother, did you dodge a bullett or manufacture one???

So that happened...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 27, 2007, 01:42:36 AM
http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/inventory_10_directors_you

Hey, I have to take exception with Peter Hyams, they are picking on a brother in that regard, sure, he falls into the category with people making uneasy choices in a volatile landscape, but in terms of really sucking on the dollar like the other guys suck.  Nope.  Hyams is a fucking auteur next to those guys and it's a shame that you don't see his sense of humor as a journeyman at the same time.  I hope it's nothing personal, and I'm sure he's an asshole if they say so, but he's not uncapable of making a good movie one day, hell, anybody that worked with JCVD and worked agian is aces, right?  Sheesh.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 27, 2007, 01:48:02 AM
Plus, ripping Hyams on "End of Days" while he is producing a watchable movie out of complete crap is the equivalent of not committing suicide:  The guy should be happy that he's still alive, and shouldn't have to take a humility bump for the context, in fact, he's up for the award for "Most able to hold it togever under ineresting curcumstance...," More of the sheesh...plus he was under the gun with the other pre-millennial fest which I forget and which satisfies the ROT, but I mean, what are they supposed to do with pandemic anxiety, empathize, I mean, sheesh.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 10:07:57 AM
Hell:  "1409" is not looking nearly as ridiculous as another "Almighty" entry...

Nice1!!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 10:16:40 AM
I liked "End Of Days", but I always go for that Bible-Thriller stuff.  I mean, "Constantine" was like my 3rd favorite movie of 2005.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Eva on June 27, 2007, 10:22:53 AM
Film-buffs:

American movies aside.  With a penchant for foreign, independent directors and actors here, I'm looking for a kindred spirit (or two, or bring 'em all on) who could list their faves.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kidcarter8 on June 27, 2007, 10:32:18 AM
I certainly don't qualify as a "buff", so don't have a list.

Here's one I liked:

http://imdb.com/title/tt0110604/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 27, 2007, 10:36:25 AM
Eva --

 I think the Irish have been making outstanding films.  Directors like

Shane Meadows --

A Room For Romeo Brass
Dead Man's Shoes

and Neil Jordan  (many fine films, most recently Breakfast on Pluto)

seem to have the Irish gift for telling a fine story, often with that wonderful Irish sense of humor.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 27, 2007, 11:11:00 AM
I see whiskey has The Double Life of Veronique as his avatar.  Criterion has recently come out with a very nicely packaged box set of Kieslowski's beautiful film:

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Life-Veronique-Criterion-Collection/dp/B000I2J75O/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182956922&sr=1-1


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 27, 2007, 11:12:15 AM
As far as Irish films, The Field remains one of my personal favorites:

http://www.amazon.com/Field-Richard-Harris/dp/B00005V1WP/ref=sr_1_5/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182957082&sr=1-5


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 11:22:08 AM
A good foreign flick to see in the buff if one is accompanied by another kindred buff, is "Wings of Desire"...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093191/

Two recent releases that I liked...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424205/

A war flick with an anti-war theme.

And...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

Political film eerily reminiscent of all too powerful government spying on the citizenry.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 11:50:12 AM
 Very interesting, I hadn't considered the buff possibilities previously, but Wings of Desire is one of my most recommended films. Not only because the premise is good and the camera-work inspired for placing our watchers in exactly the spots we've always known they are. (Like everybody knows about  "the library angel", right?)

But, here's the topper, the dialogue in this script, often interior process of thought, is  in German  perfect poetry.


The other of the two films that you mentioned, again it is the German film that I've hoped to see and expect to see.  The French film was unknown about until you mentioned it although I know the premise upon which it is based, purportedly an actual event that had more to do with  carol-singing reciprocally than with "fussbol", in WW 1, I believe.  The latter had to go in there, films are action, and no one is going to just go see a film in which men sing Christmas carols to each other across the snow. Unless they happen to be German and sentimental and make a Xmas tradition of going to see the movie; but since this is French, no problem.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 11:52:36 AM
With a penchant for foreign, independent directors and actors here, I'm looking for a kindred spirit (or two, or bring 'em all on) who could list their faves.

G-D-T!!  G-D-T!!

Guillermo Del Toro is my favorite director, after the Coen Bros.  "Pan's Labyrinth" blew me away, as did "Blade 2" and "The Devil's Backbone".  Heck, I even liked "Hellboy".  

IMDB says GDT was Will Smith's first choice to direct the upcoming "I Am Legend", and was Peter Jackson's first choice to direct "Halo", but he said no thanks, I've got to do "Hellboy 2".  That might prompt some WTF?'s, I know, as many people found "Hellboy" to be tedious.  I didn't, but that's just me.

Anyways, whenever I go to a movie anymore, it's always, "Well, '1408' starts at 7:20, but 'Blades of Glory' doesn't start until 7:40, and it's at the $1.50 cinema, so I guess I'll go see 'Blades'...," and that's pretty much the extent of the analysis.  There's rarely anything of which I say, "Oh boy, I can't wait to see that one...," and very rarely am I sitting in a movie and say to myself, "Wow, I really like this a lot."  

Even something like the "Bourne" movies, which I like, and am looking forward to "Ultimatum" (especially since Paddy Considine is in it)... it's just different.  I can be in a "Bourne" movie and sit there and enjoy it and everything is fine, etc., but it's different with a Coen Bros movie or a GDT movie.  I was sitting there watching "Pan's Labyrinth" feeling all giddy because it was so great.  I suspect I'll get a giddy feeling watching "No Country For Old Men" this fall.

And that's no knock against "Bourne" - I just picked it as an example because I liked both "Bourne" movies.  

Anyways, that's my ramble - for favorite foreign director, mark it GDT.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 11:55:12 AM
Re: German - I liked "Das Leben Der Anderen" a lot - the guy who plays the Stasi officer has a very cool-looking face.  I would think he'd be able to get some Hollywood-type work (if he wanted it) on the strength of his performance in "DLDA".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 12:46:25 PM
I believe the cool face you mentioned is in this one...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389557/

And I agree on "Pan's Labyrinth". I'm glad I saw it on the big screen.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 12:56:31 PM
I believe the cool face you mentioned is in this one...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0389557/

No, he was the writer in "Das Leben Der Anderen".  He was good, also, but the guy I'm talking about played the Stasi officer:

http://imdb.com/gallery/ss/0405094/Ss/0405094/02.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0405094 (http://imdb.com/gallery/ss/0405094/Ss/0405094/02.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0405094)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 12:59:20 PM
Yes, yes. You're right. The writer was the officer in "Black Book". Two different cool faces.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 01:59:11 PM
Sh..., I can even pronounce Das Leben der Anderen but thanks for reminding me about the Black Book. Another on my list of things that I forget to remember to do. There is nothing more important than films.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 02:05:58 PM
There is nothing more important than films.

Now that is funny.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 02:13:36 PM
Sh..., I can even pronounce Das Leben der Anderen but thanks for reminding me about the Black Book. Another on my list of things that I forget to remember to do. There is nothing more important than films.

Not even peanut butter?

[Potential spoiler alert]

for a foreign film, it's way too american. just when you think it is ending...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 27, 2007, 02:32:46 PM
Faraway, So Close!

http://www.amazon.com/Faraway-So-Close-Otto-Sander/dp/B00004W4UC/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1948969-6965627?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182969107&sr=1-1

is a good follow-up to Wings of Desire.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 27, 2007, 02:33:57 PM
I was glad to see If...

http://www.amazon.com/If-Criterion-Collection-Malcolm-McDowell/dp/B000OPPAEW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1948969-6965627?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182969201&sr=1-1

finally released on DVD.


Title: Valkyrie
Post by: Dzimas on June 27, 2007, 02:46:24 PM
Stretching the envelope I would say,

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/ap_on_en_mo/tom_cruise


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 27, 2007, 02:54:42 PM
Haven't seen mention of Deepa Mehta.  Worth taking a look.  Her trilogy Earth, Fire and Water.  All are thoughtfully and beautifully poetic, the depth is there as well, dramatically shattering at times.  Interesting work.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 03:23:32 PM
I was glad to see If...

http://www.amazon.com/If-Criterion-Collection-Malcolm-McDowell/dp/B000OPPAEW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1948969-6965627?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182969201&sr=1-1

finally released on DVD.

I tried watching IF a long time ago but couldn't make it all the way through. I'll give it another shot as I like Malcolm McDowell.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 03:38:12 PM
Haven't seen mention of Deepa Mehta.  Worth taking a look.  Her trilogy Earth, Fire and Water.  All are thoughtfully and beautifully poetic, the depth is there as well, dramatically shattering at times.  Interesting work.

Never have ventured into Bollywood. Perhaps it is about time.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 03:43:00 PM
HA! Went and wiki-ed 'Bollywood'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bollywood

So much to learn, so much time to do so (smile).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 27, 2007, 03:59:54 PM
LFODH:  $68.57M


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on June 27, 2007, 04:25:23 PM
Hi, chauncey!
Mehta really doesn't fall into the classic Bollywood formula.  Fanaa is the only Bollywood movie I've seen, it was good of a kind.  More of a classic English story-line, with the ascribed Indian film-making particular to "Bollywoodism"...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 04:31:21 PM
LFODH:  $68.57M

I'll go $33.40MM.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 04:39:22 PM
Hi, chauncey!
Mehta really doesn't fall into the classic Bollywood formula.  Fanaa is the only Bollywood movie I've seen, it was good of a kind.  More of a classic English story-line, with the ascribed Indian film-making particular to "Bollywoodism"...

thankee. i know better than to rely on wiki for the whole story. i'll check out the triology and maybe do some reading.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 27, 2007, 04:58:48 PM
Oil:  I'm talking Wed.-Sun., so I'm not predicting blowout numbers, but okay.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 27, 2007, 05:02:27 PM
Oil:  I'm talking Wed.-Sun., so I'm not predicting blowout numbers, but okay.

Oh, I didn't consider the Wednesday release thing, but I'll stick with my 33.40 and go with that for Wed-Sun.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 27, 2007, 05:41:18 PM
You remind me of myself as a young prognosticator, while others were scrambling to collect data such as number or theaters, I would place a wetted finger in the air to try and best adjudge the prevailing pop-whimsy of the American audience.  Rather than use deductive reasoning, calculators and the like, I would try to get hooked on a feeling, while the scurrying number-munchers were devising complicated predictive algorithms, I would have a Barge's and some Cheetos, and mull over national sentiment by the use of the five senses, some may think one's sense of smell is not as important as how aggressive marketing a stance a particular studio is taking:  I happen to disagree.  Therefore, I'm sure you've sensed my embarrassment at having scolded or cautioned you by the means of hard data.  I should have, sir, taken you on your word, and your willingness to stick to an original prediction is the better part of valor in this case.  Huzzah, and bonne chance.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Eva on June 27, 2007, 05:49:01 PM
Film Buffs - and the not Buff  - also those in or not in the buff:

Kid - Will check MW out - had never heard of it - not into gore - but it has more?
Barton - Yeah!  So what is it with the Irish mordant wit?  Seen all and agree totally
Dzmas -  So many suggestions - So little etc.
Chauncey - Interesting -cool - yet Pan - maybe I should have "big-screened" that one
Oil - Another great I've missed
Kit - Have seen Water - Amazing - Strong and Beautifully filmed

Thank you much!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 06:16:39 PM
eva

yet Pan - maybe I should have "big-screened" that one

i don't have a sophisticated home theater system so i try to see films like Pan's on the big screen. if you have or have access to somebody's fancy set-up, i'm sure the dvd experience will not disappoint. beyond the cinematography and special effects, it's a great story. it does have some gory stuff in it, tho'. more like creepy stuff. so, depending on whether you simply dislike gore or are totally turned off by gore, you may want to consult with someone who knows more about your gore acceptability level.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 06:29:15 PM
dzimas,

Absolutely hated, Faraway So Close. I used to be my area fan-club for Dafoe leader, if I'd been young enough for an era as I remember that was still possible but I'm not. We came from the same sort of  background; fathers were --well, his was a small town doctor, mine would have been if he had not been ambitious, large families that drive you into acting to get away and, well that would be giving too much away.  So for several years Willem apparently did stock repertoire in a start  up  theatre company with an annoyingly make-shift space -- before he went to Manhattan.

But I never knew it, as I'd gone off to the country and grew things and put them up for winter when I went into town for a three day interlude of Mandarin. I possibly heard some occasional mention of the theater and I think that I actually went there for their performance of Fanshen with which I profoundly disagreed until I got used to Hare's outrage about "Cultural Revolution" and the really bad performance of fake Chinese, when I normally fed real Chinese after their uniformed dance performances.  

Word spread around that Willem took direction from his wife excellently well. And some of his film performances got your attention. But then there were the bummers.   Now, all these years later, knowing every one of his nuances is inevitably like marriage.  Is there anything that he is  likely to come up with at this late date? Although, you know what I am about to say. Scorsese knew how to pick a winner when he decided to subject the Church,either Orthodox or Roman, or those others who believe they are Christians to the Zealot Activist disavower who, when he is ready to say,"I've had it and I won't take it any more!", suddenly realizes what he has just said and gets the heebie-jeebies, so runs off to hide in the garden at Gethsemane like that will change anything. Nonetheless that's the Kazantzakis version, true to the book which we'd all read. And Christ, Willem Dafoe came across as the best ever, including Martin Scorsese's use of the cultural preferences for a kind of North Frieslander version, no matter how much he talked about his rabbinic calling.

But as some kind of slipped off the Angelic razor's edge from one of the higher choirs, no thanks. It was rather unpleasant.

Fact is, I wanted more of the premise in Wings of Desire, and it was sort of there but supposedly factually grim.

This is when I switched to Bruno Ganz permanently.  I noticed in today's photogravure display of various Germans who have played in the German productions that were under discussion there is one guy who has it around the chin for the old Bruno charisma.

The official desk officer had the necessary eyes that are all perceptive among those who can readily sit  on desk duty for 14 or more hours per day. These guys ran everything of any importance where I came from. Nothing got past them. They didn't have to be of exceptional intelligence; just hard as nails.        


Now, about Tom Cruise.  This isn't what I had in mind as respect for Stauffenberg.  My great-great grandfather was an East Prussian, so we do have some honor. Tom will be lucky to avoid the clutches of the junior von Stauffenberg and get out of the country alive.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 27, 2007, 06:42:31 PM
I see whiskey has The Double Life of Veronique as his avatar.  Criterion has recently come out with a very nicely packaged box set of Kieslowski's beautiful film:

http://www.amazon.com/Double-Life-Veronique-Criterion-Collection/dp/B000I2J75O/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182956922&sr=1-1
There goes another 40 bucks.

A foreign movie I watched a couple times lately is Au hasard Balthazar, from Robert Bresson.  I think the operative word is "austere."  I love it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060138/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060138/)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 27, 2007, 06:45:52 PM
I was glad to see If...

http://www.amazon.com/If-Criterion-Collection-Malcolm-McDowell/dp/B000OPPAEW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1948969-6965627?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182969201&sr=1-1

finally released on DVD.
Also newly released on Criterion, Billy Wilder's realistic, understated, whimsical look at humanity, Ace in the Hole.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043338/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043338/)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 27, 2007, 10:50:39 PM
Warden is great in "Shampoo," and if it was a generational film the script wouldn't have taken such a charitable liking to him, he's not a stick-figure for Nixonian conservatism and capitalism, and neither is Beatty a emblem for free love and not gathering his own nut.

Just watched "Heaven Can Wait" again and can see what I hadn't before as to the anti-capitalist undercurrent of this one. I was quite the Marxist myself (actually apolitical is a better description) back then. Kinda cool to see things in a very different light.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 12:04:07 AM
Maddy, hard to imagine hating Faraway, So Close! I suppose if you were looking for something in the same vein as Wings of Desire, it could have been disappointing.  But, it was such a harmless film, with a wonderful sense of humor, that I didn't know Wenders had.

Yea, whiskey, I couldn't resist Veronique either.  Criterion has a way of doing that to you.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 12:33:01 AM
Hard for me to imagine Die Hard doing less than 60 mil, even if they've stretched this series one too many movies already.  But Willis seems to take it all with a sense of humor.

Counting down the days to The Simpsons movie.


Title: Heaven Knows Why?
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 12:40:13 AM
Heaven Can Wait was OK.  I remember that Beatty took a pretty hard hit when that movie garnered so many Oscar nominations.  For some reason, the acting community took exception to it.  Heaven knows why?  It seemed like such a harmless, empty-headed sort of film, a pleasant update of the Ernst Lubitsch film, without the bite.   Warden was good as the coach.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 01:11:51 AM
What was truly awful, maddie, was the remake of Wings of Desire with Nicholas Cage and Meg Ryan,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120632/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 04:44:38 AM
I don't understand why Percy Adlon's Sugarbaby hasn't yet been released on DVD,

http://www.amazon.com/Sugarbaby-Zuckerbaby-Marianne-S%C3%A4gebrecht/dp/6301651707/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=video&qid=1183020237&sr=1-2

Great film!


Title: Re: Heaven Knows Why?
Post by: chauncey.g on June 28, 2007, 06:20:53 AM
Heaven Can Wait was OK.  I remember that Beatty took a pretty hard hit when that movie garnered so many Oscar nominations.  For some reason, the acting community took exception to it.  Heaven knows why?  It seemed like such a harmless, empty-headed sort of film, a pleasant update of the Ernst Lubitsch film, without the bite.   Warden was good as the coach.

My list of faves consists of lots of films that I admit have no reason to be considered as great or worthy of recognition by The Academy. Sometimes a thing is just what it is. A pleasant story, an amusing tale, a personal experience. Take "The Gods Must Be Crazy" for example. The only award I'd give it is "Most Fun Flick to Watch When I'm Watching It".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on June 28, 2007, 06:21:32 AM
What was truly awful, maddie, was the remake of Wings of Desire with Nicholas Cage and Meg Ryan,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120632/

Truly awful, yes. I agree there.


Title: Re: Heaven Knows Why?
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 08:07:28 AM
Heaven Can Wait was OK.  I remember that Beatty took a pretty hard hit when that movie garnered so many Oscar nominations.  For some reason, the acting community took exception to it.  Heaven knows why?  It seemed like such a harmless, empty-headed sort of film, a pleasant update of the Ernst Lubitsch film, without the bite.   Warden was good as the coach.

My list of faves consists of lots of films that I admit have no reason to be considered as great or worthy of recognition by The Academy. Sometimes a thing is just what it is. A pleasant story, an amusing tale, a personal experience. Take "The Gods Must Be Crazy" for example. The only award I'd give it is "Most Fun Flick to Watch When I'm Watching It".
I was actually very disappointed in The Gods Must Be Crazy the first time I watched it.  Maybe one of those "Too bad I heard so much about it that I was expecting more" movies.  Like Little Miss Sunshine, a pleasant enough movie but nothing special, that just got hyped out of all proportion by the time I saw it.  "This?"  I thought while watching it, "All that hype for a movie that rips most of its predictable plot from the first Vacation movie and confuses character quirks with characters?"  Maybe if I had just been able to watch it with no expectations I wouldn't disdain it as I do.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 08:08:09 AM
What was truly awful, maddie, was the remake of Wings of Desire with Nicholas Cage and Meg Ryan,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120632/

Truly awful, yes. I agree there.
Not even my all too intense fondness for the perky Ms. Ryan could get me to watch that thing again.


Title: Re: Heaven Knows Why?
Post by: chauncey.g on June 28, 2007, 08:43:50 AM
I was actually very disappointed in The Gods Must Be Crazy the first time I watched it.  Maybe one of those "Too bad I heard so much about it that I was expecting more" movies.  Like Little Miss Sunshine, a pleasant enough movie but nothing special, that just got hyped out of all proportion by the time I saw it.  "This?"  I thought while watching it, "All that hype for a movie that rips most of its predictable plot from the first Vacation movie and confuses character quirks with characters?"  Maybe if I had just been able to watch it with no expectations I wouldn't disdain it as I do.

Ban the hypers!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 08:46:50 AM
One of the advantages of living in Lithuania is that I miss much of the hype, so Little Miss Sunshine came as a pleasant surprise to me.  Not that it was anything special, but I thought it was well done for what it was.  The first Gods Must be Crazy film was a lot of fun.  The second one a miserable mess.  I think they even tried a third movie along the same lines, but enough was enough.

On another note, my wife has become a big fan of Lynch after watching two seasons of Twin Peaks and Mulholland Drive on DVD.  Lynch has been hit and miss as far as I'm concerned.  Curious what persons think of Inland Empire, which is soon to be released on DVD.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 08:52:50 AM
TGMBC was not really hyped; it had tremendous word of mouth more than anything.

Lynch makes movies for people other than me.  Except for Blue Velvet, which I only kind of like primarily for Dennis Hopper's performance, and the first few episodes of Twin Peaks, I dislike to hate all of his movies.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 09:14:22 AM
One thing that might perk your interest in Inland Empire is that Poland apparently figures heavily into the film,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460829/

Seems Poles loved it so much, there were 25 additional minutes in the Polish release.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 09:20:02 AM
One thing that might perk your interest in Inland Empire is that Poland apparently figures heavily into the film,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0460829/

Seems Poles loved it so much, there were 25 additional minutes in the Polish release.
Well, certainly, any movie casting two Polish actors with the last name of Cybulski deserves interest - are either of them related to the great Zbigniew Cybulski?  IMDb is of no help.

If he had managed to cast Daniel Olbrychski, I might be more interested.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 09:25:37 AM
I don't know Polish actors as well as you do.  Kieslowski, Polanski and Wajda are the only two names that come to mind. 

I suppose you have to have a high definition television to appreciate the benefits of blue ray, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to buy future DVD's in blue ray.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 09:31:23 AM
I don't know Polish actors as well as you do.  Kieslowski, Polanski and Wajda are the only two names that come to mind. 

I suppose you have to have a high definition television to appreciate the benefits of blue ray, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to buy future DVD's in blue ray.
Well, Zbigniew Cybulski made his reputation as the "Polish James Dean" in Wajda's Ashes and Diamonds.  And Olbrychski has been in, well, everything, including a handfull of Wajda films - though on The Promised Land and Pan Tedeusz come to mind - and all three of the Trilogy movies, as the villain Azja Tuhaj-Bejowicz in Pan Wojo..Wo... ah, hell, you know the title, the hero Andrzej Kmicic in The Deluge, and a small part as Tohaj-Bej (the father of his Pan W. character) in With Fire and Sword.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 09:34:28 AM
Kieslowski, Polanski and Wajda are the only two names that come to mind. 

Two?

Don't forget Agnieska Holland, a fine Polish director (and the model for the female lead in Wajda's Man of Marble and Man of Iron) currently working here.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 09:42:17 AM
Europa, Europa was a great film!  Shame on me for not remembering her.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 09:42:58 AM
Also, Olbrychski was the star of Dekalog 3 (Remember the sabbath day and keep it holy), where he played a husband whose former lover keeps him away from his family on Christmas Eve.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 09:46:55 AM
As many Polish films as I have seen, the faces all remained nameless.  I guess I just couldn't wrap my tongue around their names.  Was disappointed with Pan Tadeusz, expected more from it with all the hype it got in Vilnius at the time.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 09:47:04 AM
Europa, Europa was a great film!  Shame on me for not remembering her.
She's been hit or miss.  Bitter Harvest was pretty great, too, and I am very fond of The Third Miracle as well.  But Total Eclipse was abysmal, and To Kill a Preist ruined a very good story and excellent cast (Ed Harris, Tim Roth, Pete Postlethwait, Joos Ackland) by having Chritopher Lambert (The Swiss Keanu Reeves) in the pivotal role.  


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 28, 2007, 09:49:09 AM
I thought her take on The Secret Garden was pretty good.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 28, 2007, 09:49:44 AM
I thought her take on The Secret Garden was pretty good.
Haven't seen it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 28, 2007, 10:40:40 AM
The Secret Garden, by sheer chance, provides me with my segue to mention that I finally saw The Constant Gardener last night.  (make a hybrid title of this, if you wish, though nothing beats the current year's opportunity to combine The Good German with The Good Shepherd, IMO)

While I think one can say it did a fair job of exposing a problem of corruption and callous attitudes in the pharmaceutical industry, sort of the pharma version of Syriana, its strength lies in the love story between a British diplomat and a passionate crusader free-spirit woman who goes to Kenya with him.  The Africans, and their struggles and sufferings, are mainly relegated to bit parts and backdrop. 
The film suggests compassion, but whenever it involves itself to any degree with the objects of that compassion, the people of Kenya, it moves on too quickly to the eye-candy Anglos in the foreground.  Basically, the film's emotional reach exceeded its grasp.




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 28, 2007, 12:33:32 PM
Writers (WGA):Wim Wenders (screenplay) &
Peter Handke (screenplay) ..."What was truly awful was Nicholas Cage and Meg Ryan....

Well, we always knew that; what we didn't know was that Wenders had a strange sense of humor that could compete with Werner Herzog's.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 28, 2007, 01:28:10 PM
I didn't even know that The Gods Must Be Crazy went into sequel. Whisqe sometimes lacks humor as opposed to the Wenders/Herzog variety since anybody can see this was more than a  Vacation, this was an Anthropology major's spoof ( of an actual happening, I might add).

Agniewska Holland is someone I once got confused with Jane Campion, when using her to illustrate not the Campion flick made by Nicole Kidman but the film that Holland actually made of the other James novel, Washington Square,with Jennifer Jason Leigh. My point having been that there were certain painful facts of life, that although described in supposedly great literature, are often better revealed by the camera --thus shortening the dialogue or the narratif.  I may have liked Montgomery Clift's performance better at a certain age than Ben Chaplin's but the other Leads were vastly more relevant with Holland's direction.

She also understands cinematography quite well.Therefore,I also disagree
 in regard to--Total Eclipse, it is a humdinger of a revelation about Rimbaud, that nobody realized her lead actor could perform opposite David Thewlis (as dzimas can tell,another actor who has grown on me), to reveal the obsession of an unruly older man for a no holds barred younger version of what he might have been.  In fact, I might have used Di Caprio as a perfect example of what I was referring to previously in Celebreality -- a male equivalent Paris Hilton  who found a mentor to teach him to observe Robert De Niro(speaking of The Good Shepherd)

So now I have to disagree also about The Constant Gardener, since the intent is fulfilled in bringing out the facts of how we use-- to this day-- other populations to test things on. Of course we are supposed to blame the British here because Bill Nighy makes an appearance to remind us of duplicity in as nervy a way possible.  There is nothing wrong with the African background, if from the start you end up on the edge of your seat as the audio come through loud and clear and the camera has no where to go as it lets you know this is over-population at its best. I recall very telling scenes ( other than those by my favourite suffering joker Raf-Raf Fiennes, I was just finding out about Ms. Weiss) prior to the end of this film when a pilot or other personnel on a small plane explains why missing a child who needs to catch this flight, when left behind in a running group of human beings which is shot like the safari herds of Denys Finch Hatton (in, Out of Africa), makes no difference. This is the African view of Africa. I have lost contact with Africans by now, when they were born and raised in Africa and went into political life, and simply disappeared, vanished in the way that the young wife of The Constant Gardener has. I recall that about the time when I saw the film, I was talking with one of the other posters in the usual spots who only dropped in now and then because she was doing medical work in Africa at the time, a very good sociologist-minded individual whom you could rely on for legal facts in the American History forum and we got to talking about the revelations as to what went wrong with the experiments in regard to ebola virus which may have led to the jump toward HIV (or, the kind of thing we now so fear about Bird Flu in that epidemiology is concerned with jump in viral potency among species).

Sorry, I ruined the pop-corn by using salted butter, I've had to give it up at the movies.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 28, 2007, 01:54:54 PM
"my wife has become a big fan of Lynch after watching two seasons of Twin Peaks and Mulholland Drive on DVD"

Ps. Dzimas,

I rather dislike the man, Twin Peaks was like dreaming about friends left behind in a non-mythical village in the Midwest. Okay, so I liked his footage of the Mardi Gras floats when he did those in whatever. I liked his infamous dwarf shot to a Robert Blake dialogue

What I am addicted to is Mulholland Drive. I like sexy mysteries Noir such as L.A. Confidential. I hear that Black Dahlia bombed because it didn't have the super-actor power of the previous two films that I've mentioned. It didn't even have what was brought to the early version  by
Gregory Dunne which had actors instead of "graphic".

I have about a dozen pay per view films on my agenda to catch  up with over the "holiday?" and I can make my own popcorn since they are not giving me the movies that I want at the new theater which plays the same things as all the old theaters.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 28, 2007, 02:06:35 PM
The Guru said 33 for the weekend and 48 for the Wed. - Sun.

Nice guy, but a number-muncher.


Title: Familiar faces
Post by: Dzimas on June 29, 2007, 08:21:38 AM
It was fun to see Heather Graham turn up in Twin Peaks (around about episode 23) as Norma's younger sister.


Title: Familiar faces
Post by: Dzimas on June 29, 2007, 08:24:40 AM
Even more fun was seeing David Duchovny making a memorable appearance as a transvestite DEA Agent Denise in three episodes, saving Agent Cooper's butt.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 09:26:10 AM
Upont, thanks for some insights on Constant Gardener -- you found some reasons to admire it that many overlooked, myself included.  Since I've also recently seen the Last King of Scotland, I'm going to go ahead and have a look at the other major "Africa films" --- Blood Diamond and Hotel Rwanda --- and try to get a better sense what the major studios are up to with the place.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 29, 2007, 09:37:52 AM
Barton, you should check out some homegrown African films like Dry White Season (South Africa) and the films of Ousmane Sembene,

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr011=t4nams4j82.app1b&page=NewsArticle&id=6955&news_iv_ctrl=1261

who is considered the Father of African film. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 29, 2007, 09:49:14 AM
Another good African film is Chocolat by Claire Denis,

http://www.amazon.com/Chocolat-Isaach-Bankol%C3%A9/dp/B00005J75R/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1183124634&sr=1-3

albeit from a French perspective. There is also the quintessential The Battle of Algiers,

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Algiers-Criterion-Collection/dp/B0002JP2OI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1183124766&sr=1-2

and having seen The Last King of Scotland, you might try General Idi Amin Dada,

http://www.amazon.com/General-Idi-Amin-Dada-Collection/dp/B000063N7E/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1183124837&sr=1-1

and one of my personal favorites, When We Were Kings,

http://www.amazon.com/When-Were-Kings-Muhammad-Ali/dp/B00007ELEK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1183124917&sr=1-1



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 11:17:10 AM
I can only aspire to see so many Africa films.  However, Senior Member status lies less than 20 postings away, so I don't think it premature to pick up a bottle of champagne tonight.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 11:36:07 AM
Speaking of African films, the documentary "Darwin's Nightmare" is really great, and heartbreaking as well.  You can catch that one on cable occasionally - it really stayed with me.  It's about a town on Lake Victoria in Tanzania where Nile perch are caught and processed at a local plant, the destruction of the ecosystem because of a Nile perch being introduced into the lake years ago, Russians smuggling weapons into African in the guise of shipping frozen fish out, and the wretchedly poor citizens of the town who are starving to death as the bounty is harvested and shipped all over Europe.  Ghastly and haunting.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 29, 2007, 11:42:12 AM
LFODH did 9.11M on Wed night, a promising start with two showings and many people otherwise occupied--I still like my number--but something in the low 50s is not out of the question.

And yeah, how *creepy* is it that it did 9.11, I mean, if 23 had done 23 on opening weekend I would have been all weirded out, it all started when "Pi" grossed 3.____, whatver pi is to like the penny or it would've gone for infinity, sombody told me that one time at a party.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on June 29, 2007, 11:54:56 AM
I grossed Pi one time, but that was after like 30 beers and a handful of horse tranquilizers, so I can't really recommend or not recommend it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 12:01:22 PM
Oilcan, your post goes perfectly with your avatar.

I have to re-see Pi, as I've forgotten most of it....well, except for the 3.14 part at the beginning...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 29, 2007, 12:15:13 PM
Oilcan, your post goes perfectly with your avatar.

I have to re-see Pi, as I've forgotten most of it....well, except for the 3.14 part at the beginning...
Round it off to 3, like a Kansan.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 12:19:43 PM
That does seem like a more rational choice.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 29, 2007, 12:21:51 PM
I said "two showings" but I guess there were matinee showings as well on Wed.; but my point is that Sat. and Sun. matinees will be more populated.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 29, 2007, 12:29:44 PM
Darghis liked the wise-cracking script but the Onion gave it only a C+, but I may go to beat the heat, but may well be on the boat most of the weekend. 

I've always liked Willis and think he has a lot of potential as an older actor when the blood-soaked wife-beater tee  and hail of gunfire become too much to expect or bear. 

I like Shane Black and Tony Scott as well, and for a perfectly fine cop actioner look no further than "The Last Boy Scout," notable for it's relentless pace, snappy dialogue, a decent performance out of a Wayans brother, and a great sense of humor about the ridiculous plot, action, etc., and has a great car chase and a couple of great bad guys.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 29, 2007, 07:12:11 PM
barton,re:#852

Think you are ready, for Hotel Rwanda?   Go according to jbottle rules and have your favourite tranquilizer on hand before getting involved with this. Don Cheadle, whom you may remember in his more all over the walls role, Mouse, is instead the presence and voice of sanity as the Hotel manager who has a refined skill at making compromises as diplomatically as possible. This has allowed him to advance and actually believe he might yet flourish. You discover many different kinds of personalities under the ultimate life-demolishing stress as they become aware that they are under attack.   No one more so than the Belgian military officer in charge who is unable to get through in time  to the European authorities a continent away that his command is under siege and that no one in the civilian population will survive.  You are constantly pushed into the frame with Cheadle in hair-trigger hold your breath fright generally just a door away down the corridor from something awful going on.  He has to worry about his family, while taking in locals who cluster to the hotel, people hoping to be evacuated by bus --only to have the bus halted somewhere not far down the line for further examination of faces and types to determine which of the two major tribal groups they  happen to be.  By the time that you get to the ending, there is no relief, as Don Cheadle drives a bus into the murky dawn and suddenly realized just what it is that he is driving over on the impassable road. Then comes the dawn.

Since I look back on this film, following the Oscar awards of a year ago(I think?) in which, what was it called(?) --Trash, or Traffic, or whatever also show-cased Cheadle in a role of a long-suffering  ordinary guy with
complete awareness of where everything and everyone is coming from, I found that he was probably tritely used for this supposed look at L.A. with Ben Affleck, Thandie Newton, Ludicrous, and many others, that simply doesn't compare with what he did as an actor in Hotel Rwanda (and all the way back to his Walter Mosley created role in,Devil with the Blue Dress).

It was after Hotel Rwanda that he found himself escorting  Congresswoman Maxine Waters  and the other ladies of the Congressional Black Caucus to Darfur but that was some years ago. I heard that as part of a group flogged into a pro-active stance by George Clooney, they came up with some figure like $9 million for Darfur, check me if I'm wrong and it turns out to be $9 billion but that sounds really more like Bush deficits doesn't it?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Lhoffman on June 29, 2007, 07:36:38 PM
Do you mean "Crash?"  Saw "Hotel Rwanda" and "Crash"...Both good.  I think I prefer "Crash."   I like the approach to racism and the idea that even the most liberal have ideas they need to get past (which is why racism is such a difficult issue...most of don't think we're racists).  Also, my heart was in my throat in the scene where the little girl gives her father her magic bullet-proof cloak and along comes a shooter....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 29, 2007, 09:42:46 PM
I liked the Spader performance, but didn't like the approach to carsex.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 29, 2007, 09:46:04 PM
Lhoffman

Since it has been awhile, was the little girl in Hotel Rwanda, I suspect, or in Crash, which for the life of me I could not recall that name.

From what I remember, most of the non-Los Angeles viewers extrinsic to the Awards' audience, were sorely disappointed that Broke Back Mountain did not get the Oscars but was passed over for Crash.   Although I was curious to see several performers, the sum total was a work of wish fulfillment rather than art,and I will never forget Nicole Kidman's consumate judgement which began to clue me in that non-African-"Americans" with emphasis upon Americans felt somehow guilt-relieved upon viewing this movie.

Because I have since August 2005 switched offerings at my carrier service to a widespread entity known as Black Voices when I realized that was the only way I was going to get the factual news out of New Orleans following the hurricane,  upon the occasion of the Oscars, other than a wildly strange dance entertainment that was included at some point, the vote was thumbs down  on Crash. It was seen as too concocted. A couple of new actors were given their show-casing and that was about it. Thandie Newton just missed , maybe by a quarter of an inch, the straight up reaction that would have convinced us  that her emotional reactions were valid, but she overplayed the hysteric aspects more than the anger at the insult.  And she can be a very subtle actor (despite her otherworldly performance of a disturbed spirit you might encounter at a seance, unless you settle for her being  a nasty piece of work, in -- Beloved; there there was her bonne vivant Sally Hemings who definitely knew by what part of his anatomy she had Nick Nolte's Jefferson; and I recently have been praising her subtle rhythm, reminiscient of Eartha Kitt in the Fifties but minus the ferocity when she played in the Bertolucci film Siege, or Besieged depending upon where you see it).

As I have said before, I have been watchin black actors since I was knee high, to my father I guess, the average community entertainments  that led to the founding of such institutions as the Negro Ensemble Acting Company, etc.  -- and I could't even bother to look up who produced and directed this film.

And, again, although it was an opportunity to watch a couple of new actors, in a new context  than we usually see them, as actors rather than entertainers, the whole gestalt went phhh--tt!  What it most indicated was that Los Angelenos feel somehow put upon by being uptight in the amount of space in which they have to maneuvre on a tight schedule and while having to share it with so many other races who apparently just get in the way.  That's the factor that is obvious when you are out there (or listening to people who just come back from there  because they had to be there and will have to be there again according to the demands of their career), unless you know yourself as one of those getting in the way people.  Then you resent the attribution very much and end up looking down your nose at the naivety of the usual discontented.  That discontentment with being forced by circumstances of time and space to share with other different people is what drives the relief upon seeing the other within the context that this movie presents.  Certainly it could have been cut differently, and said something else quite different, and possibly an actor like Don Cheadle had no notion of what the total package would actually appear to convey once the editing was done.

I'll let you know, once I find that I manage to get all my things packed, put into storage or whatever,and/or shipped out there, and live there for awhile, whether I have changed my mind.  It's closer to relatives who live there, and since they are of a variety of races, I have long since ever perceived things from some point of view that supposedly my appearance would suggest I have. So I do usually find the news or the arts invariably slanted to the predominant myth.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Lhoffman on June 29, 2007, 10:42:39 PM
The little girl was in Crash.  But as far as other opinions, what would make Nicole Kidman an expert?  African Americans maybe found it more of a no-brainer than whites because many of them have lived with racism.  Or is it possible the raters didn't quite believe that racism goes more than one way? 

In any case, I liked it quite a bit.  It was perhaps contrived, but the same could be said for any of the multi-plotted movies that are currently enjoying favor.  I like the complexity and figuring out what's going on.  Two other movies of that nature that I found enjoyable were Layer Cake and 11:14 (not as good, but the dark humor is delicious).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 29, 2007, 11:09:57 PM
I'm thinking of tuning in The Good German since somebody brought it up in here earlier today.

Missed the other two although saw the latter in passing listed on the schedule.

..."perhaps the raters didn't quite believe that racism goes more than one way?"

I'm convinced by now, that they haven't a clue. What would seem perfectly obvious as the natural reaction, to being on the wrong end of the transaction, would be  payback  where ever and when ever plausible. In fact, history bears this out with some outstanding occasions.

" I like the complexity and figuring out what's going on."  I think that the epitome of this on film was a black and white film made after it had played Broadway for quite a while, Raisin in the Sun, written by an African-American school teacher in the Midwest whose father had been an attorney during the real estate hassles of housing availability; I arrived in Manhattan just as people were eagerly off to auditions, picturing themselves cast for the screen.  When the publicity began to be released, it was obvious that Sidney Poitier was  going to play the son of this Chicago family. It accurately reflected the complex psychic relationships within a representative family, the balance of authority between mother and son.  The catchword of the poetry known tangential to this play was, "What happens to a dream deferred? Does it wither and die, like a Raisin in the Sun?" 

Apparently we are entering an era when this is now true of middle white America which has been taken to the cleaners little suspecting that was the deal. They just didn't see it coming as the loss of their conventionally agreed upon status.  If any one would have told them they were about to be victimized by their own voted into power- structure, did they say, "You've got to be kidding!"? No, the language was actually much stronger than that, as a refusal to accept the possibility that they were being had, if my memory  of the last 6 and 1/2 years  of nytimes.forums and opinion pages serves me right.                 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 29, 2007, 11:20:21 PM
I can only aspire to see so many Africa films.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on June 30, 2007, 02:03:11 AM
The Nigerian film industry has been nicknamed Nollywood.  While it can't boast of the international fame of its fellow Hollywood and Bollywood, it is a multi-billion dollar industry churning 200 movies per month.  In many ways, it is similar to the early days of Bollywood, and the Blaxploitation films of the 70's,

http://www.nigeriafilms.com/questions_answers.asp?id=7

They apparently had quite a bash at Cannes this year,

http://www.naijarules.com/vb/nollywood-home-video-films-television/22841-nigerian-party-cannes.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on June 30, 2007, 05:25:57 AM
LFODH suffered a pretty (die) hard Thurs., with around half of Wed.'s take:  Die hard fans died quickly and franchise lovers seemed to be half gone after the newness wore off:  Especially when you adjust for the 3% who, by psychosis or accident saw it again on Thurs., this appears to be a bit of a scare.

Those with day jobs and lives must try to not live free and die hard for the cause of John whatshisname in order to propel this to a "summer blockbuster," it seems this oil character is more wily than most presume.

For me, a hardened old-schooler unaccustomed to the perils of mathmatics and hard science it seems a momentary blow to the spirit of airmchair cowboyist frat boy humor for the moment, but I'll always have the "Inspector Gadget" feather in my weathered fedora, accustomed and worn, from predictions of both deluge and drought...such is the fate of an humble prognosticator, gleaming the cube so you don't have to.

I predict a very strong Saturday against no real and significant sports, early rounds of Wimbledon, a meager *8% correlation, in emotional fathom, and not ruled by the rigor of cruel demography, however, I remain your steafast and huckleberry from the cheap seat, wherever in the theater of wisdom it should reside.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on June 30, 2007, 10:32:06 AM
Upont, thanks for the Hotel Rwanda comments.  Everything that bedevils Africa, from topsoil erosion to despots, seems to trace back to colonial plunder and subsequent corporate plunder.  Now I'm going to think about breakfast.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 30, 2007, 11:29:52 AM
Barton, you should check out some homegrown African films like Dry White Season (South Africa) and the films of Ousmane Sembene,

http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?JServSessionIdr011=t4nams4j82.app1b&page=NewsArticle&id=6955&news_iv_ctrl=1261

who is considered the Father of African film. 


I've seen as many of Ousmane Sembene's films as possible, when they were presented -- I think, more than likely it was at IFC but could have been Sundance doing packets of African film. I find that I can readily relate to Senegalese culture. I used to talk with one of our nytimes forum regulars because of his expertise in music and African-American literature before that got tossed by the discerning eyes of moderation (I'm not saying that facetiously but ironically considering how important the questions of racism,migration,have come to the fore parallel to our dawdling along in getting our footing as to what was going on internationally as a result of our rah,rah nationalism on the home front)--

anyway, Ousmane did one film that is a retelling of a Biblical episode with which we should all be familiar as we watch it in progression, only he uses two "tribal groups" as the actors telling the story in terms of African life, so that you can draw your own conclusions. One thing that you come away with, from this, is how basically the same, the herding life and the life in tents remains, in what appears to be northern Senegal, to that of the ancients whom we claim as founders of Western civilization while acknowledging the split into the heritage of modern day Muslim civilization, which is systematically being destroyed where ever the resources are attractive.

Muslim culture and history has left a strong imprint on Senegal life, along with and sometimes combined in a synthesis with tribal religions, plus French Colonialism.

More about that later.  Do not want to forget the recommendation of  A Dry White Season.  I watch this whenever I can take it. That is, when ever I can take the assault on my senses and my indignation all over again.   As to the leads that get a film over to the public, sell a film, Marlon Brando is outstanding and does a court room scene, if you listen carefully to his throw away asides and his significant  oratorical subleties that are the equivalent of Clarence Darrow whether performed by other Hollywood actors in -- Inherit the Wind -- or you just remember reading some of his court-room defenses. Brando is prosecutorial here.  You might consider this an "enlarged cameo" performance. No pun, intended.  You will easily identify with the other characters ordinary daily life situations within a right-wing political agenda. Everything just becomes that more difficult to contain emotionally.

Meanwhile, I'm two pop-corns down and took your advice to look at The Good German, which baffles me, so I won't give my final opinion until I digest it awhile. It was very difficult for me to return to  the aura via the film-stock of the 1940s, as soon as it came on screen.  I mean, Fritz Lang had it knocked already. But this has the grainyness of the newsreel footage out of Germany when I was a kid and had to see each new release after sitting in a high-chair eatting oyster crackers at a booth with my parents on the way to the local Uptown movie  house in a predominantly German American working class neighborhood. I mean, yes, we got some alternating entertainment out of either Shirley Temple, Charlie Chaplin, or Cab Calloway but, as far as newsreelism, an hour and forty-eight minutes of it at one-take is almost as inundating as Aimee and Jaguar.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 30, 2007, 12:27:07 PM
“Scientology is a totalitarian ideology,” said Berthold Graf von Stauffenberg, the eldest son of Colonel Stauffenberg and a retired West German army general. “The fact that an avowed Scientologist like Mr. Cruise is supposed to play the victim of a totalitarian regime is purely sick.”


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: peloux on June 30, 2007, 02:43:59 PM
Under the category of “African Films”, it’s hard to think of Chocolat (Claire Denise, 1991) in the same scheme with a film like Last King of Scotland. The former is a sensitive and realistic look at race relations in Colonial France, a quiet and rewarding film that can (for me) withstand multiple viewings over time. The latter is a mess, IMO, that I could barely get through. It takes an historical figure and setting, invents a character and a silly one at that.  Then the action of the film reveals one implausibility after another.  (The only redeeming factor is the appearance of Gillian Anderson; unfortunately, we don’t get to see much of her). This movie would have been better had they made it comedy. As for Blood Diamond, the boy soldier thing was realistic and disturbing; other than that, however, the movie was pure Hollywood formula. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on June 30, 2007, 03:55:38 PM
 Beau Bridges (Colonel Muller), Leland Orser (Bernie), Jack Thompson (Congressman Breimer), Robin Weigert (Hannelore) and Ravil Isyanov (General Sikorsky); and the actor who plays Emile Brandt, Lena's mysterious husband in this convoluted tale, Christian Oliver.

The use of the supporting cast as character actors does much to relieve what I understand is the lack of the lighting equipment and silver-tone film and gives us the almost Orson Welles cinematography (and I do not mean The Third Man, even if Soderbergh studied at LSU).
Does this look like Orson Welles? I could have picked up this in a bar in my home town and not so long ago could have shot it there.   More remarks re: the same in kindred spirit.   

These last remarks are unfortnate as they are about the photo that did not reprint here of: 
 
George Clooney in “The Good German.” 
   
"Cate's channeling of Marlene Dietrich was:                    ?
The best description in this category will not win a date with George Clooney.

"the impressively dilapidated sets" at one hour and 48 minutes got most of my attention. Another public reviewer posting summed up what I felt, as an "unfortunate denouement", while I tried to stay awake and not fall asleep before the movie was over.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 01, 2007, 12:30:06 AM
I have set a new goal to see one African film this year if it is an action movie.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 01, 2007, 01:16:25 PM
Sounds like Blood Diamond, then?  Report back to us.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 01, 2007, 03:01:16 PM
I have to apologize that within post #874  when I made this statement
"...whether performed by other Hollywood actors in -- Inherit the Wind -"
what I had done was inadvertently overlooked that Chrisopher Plummer was playing in the current production and won a Tony(at least, I think he did?).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 01, 2007, 03:27:58 PM
I think Casino Royale technically qualifies as an "African" film, since the opening is all set in an unmentioned African country with Isaach De Bankolé as a rebel leader looking to get the most for his investment to support his cause.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 01, 2007, 04:36:01 PM
Cool, mark it, dude, jbottle's Africa film '07.

Maybe I should make it one Africa film and one African film for '08, and neither one has to have gunplay or bloodshed, but I think I'm pretty safe that there will be "action" either way.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 01, 2007, 04:43:21 PM
Heartfelt congratulations are in order, an honorable besting sir oilcan, quite well done.  LFODH did 33.1 for either the weekend or long-weekend, but either way I think you almost split the bullseye arrow like Kevin Costner in "Robin Hood," again sir, huzzah.  If I recall correctly you were within 5%, which makes you the Roger Federer of prognostication.  Despite reeling in a punch drunk stupor at the overhand right, competition is a welcome smelling salt to an old school box-office fighter who dropped his left hand for a round. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 01, 2007, 06:18:56 PM
Heartfelt congratulations are in order, an honorable besting sir oilcan, quite well done.  LFODH did 33.1 for either the weekend or long-weekend, but either way I think you almost split the bullseye arrow like Kevin Costner in "Robin Hood," again sir, huzzah. 

Congrats to oilcan, for sure.  The number 33.1 seems a little underachieving, no?  If the park down the street filled with drunken patriotic, festive picnickers is any indication, the box office might have suffered (around here, anyway) from some freakin' beautiful weather.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 01, 2007, 06:48:48 PM
Agreed, though we got a little rained out today in the coastal Cack.  I opted to make kitchen sink Bloody Marys, sans the bothsig, working out nicely so far for an indoor day.  Yeah, I think LFODH did OK at 48 for the whole weekend, kind of a gentleman's "C," a bit of a disappointment but not the disaster of an "Evan" or "Rocky," not worried about "Indy" too much because of Spielberg, but squeezing the last out of a franchise will surely have it's death-knell with "Rambo:  The Quickening" or whatever...hopefully Michael Caine will be cast as he can sell a DOA sequel like no other:

"Youuuu Telllll MEEEEE a story 'bout a shark that goes hafway 'round the world solely for the purpose of refvevenge...," Michael Caine on Jaws IV.

Bruce still has a place at the table and a $100M movie this year:  Not bad.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 02, 2007, 11:58:56 AM
Just saw Shamalan's new film, "Lint" and I must say I was terrified at several junctures.  I had not realized that the human navel was such a refuge for dangerous pathogens, nor that the hula hoop could so easily transfer disease when shared by several children.  There's a scene where the provisional government is installing alcohol vats in which to immerse the hoops (why not just ban them? this viewer wondered...martial law has been declared, how hard would it be?) and you realize that shortcuts have been taken, the alcohol adulterated.  It gave me goosebumps.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 02, 2007, 02:06:27 PM
Sounds more like a Masters and Johnson report.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 02, 2007, 02:55:00 PM
DZIMAS,

THE OTHER MULHOLLAND DRIVE MYSTERY  "a dead-end pseudo-noir "
"In 1959 someone blew his brains out in a house tucked between Sunset Boulevard and Mulholland Drive. "

from:
The Quiet Desperation of Superman       
By MANOHLA DARGIS
Published: September 8, 2006

FAVORITE SCENE:
"In 1951 Mr. Reeves met the older, far richer Toni Mannix (Diane Lane), a Hollywood wife made vulnerable, if not yet humble, by age. A former actress of no note, she was married to the MGM executive Edward J. Mannix, played by Bob Hoskins, perhaps accurately, as a thug in a front-office suit. Mr. and Mrs. Hollywood, with his-and-her paramours to go with the other servants, the couple was powerful enough to take their playmates out on a double date. Pets yukking it up with their masters at the dinner table is an ideal setup for the director Allen Coulter, who until now has only worked on a small canvas directing for television."

[IN FACT, HOSKINS IS THE ONLY SUPERIOR ACTOR IN THIS FILM. All of his scenes are worth watching closely for the 'telling gesture' while listening closely to his delivery of the lines, if you are interested in acting perchance to act?]

'Mr. Reeves was a smoothie with brilliantine hair as slick as his pickup lines. In the early 1950’s he was hustling hard, hitting auditions while the sun was up and cruising the nightclub scene after dark. He was trying to build on his decent roles in forgettable films and negligible parts in memorable ones, "

[it would seem to me that BEN AFFLECK is pretty much in the same situation 56 years later or as of today 57, although his  slick pickup lines are right on the button circa 1950s.  My only question is how did his character manage to not get himself killed before then in the stretch between 1951 and 1959 ? that's the real mystery.]

"Mr. Reeves didn’t have the requisite acting skills that might have led to steady work, much less marquee billing: he was a would-be star in a town full of extras with superior luck, looks and talent."

"Ben Affleck was totally wooden " says one review poster of many who gave it a one star-rating and two-star at most. But here's the kicker, Alan Coulter(we presume no relation to Anne) apparently directed episodes, I do not know how many, of The Sopranos.  Does this explain things to me, on the occasional Sunday nights when I sat there like a slouched question mark going,"Huh?".   I loved The Sopranos, part of New Jersey fetishism and strained relationships , I have known, memorialized by me; but there were some unexplainable cut-off plot-lines that directed the story nowhere at the end of episode. Were these Coulterisms?

Another mistakenly 4 star rating poster says,'Hollywoodland is beautifully filmed in dark sepia tones and bright glaring LA sunlight' - really? you could have fooled me. I watched one too many shots of Adrien Brody against that peculiar avocado green becoming over-ripe background that was the decor color of the Fifties. It is used here to create a painterly Hopper moodiness observed from a safe self-distancing in the introduction to the character's routine. While his life comes further apart, you realize Brody's P.I. is beginning to look like an animal somewhere between gangly moose and an imprecise genetic mistake who may have gangrene and you are immersed in the contagion area.

While it is true that there are some exceptionally brighter costume displays by the higher echelon of the star system and those who direct it (when holding court and not having to schmooze because they are being quietly pitched by the chosen few), the contrast with the ordinary life-style of the contract performer at home in the Hollywood Hills, surrounded by bit players lethargic at a perpetual dull party that only a sychophant would endure to scrounge a break, is for real.

"the virtuoso performance...Lois Smith as Reeves' mother." from a three-star rating poster with whom I agree.

Someone not mentioned in any review that I find, one of the stars of HBO's Deadwood, Molly Parker who played Alma Garret. Here she is seen in a supporting role where she uses reasonable economy while making her presence in the film ultimately necessary(which means she raises her visibility up a notch in command of more camera time(or,face time, as it is known in the trade; this, by the way,is an art-form in itself ) as most probably Adrien Brody's former wife and the mother of his emotionally upset son reacting to the absence of Superman when he was not impervious to a speeding bullet.

There is quite a bit of confusion as to how many speeding bullets Affleck had to dodge and which one got him. This Coulterism of make your own choice in a who-dunit is a revelation to me of why the ending of The Sopranos was such a disaster of competitive interpretations. It is as if the writers and the director decide that when they don't have the answer that they will provide you with multiple choices and you can take the blame for when their inventiveness fails them. The next thing you know is that you have been lied to right from the start re: Superman in Hollywoodland, anyway(whereas, with The Sopranos, it was only in the end).  Apparently this is a new fall back for creators who recall something about a Japanese film shown in the Fifties that was coherently based on that premise that truth is not objective.



(another pop-corn down)






Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 02, 2007, 03:04:27 PM
Looks like you have several things going at once there, maddie, and since I haven't seen Hollywoodland nor am up on The Sopranos, I can't offer much in the way of a comment.  I liked Mulholland Drive though, even if it seemed a Twin Peaks in miniature.  Lynch has quite a fashion for cinematic beauties.  Seems that 50s film noir is his favorite genre.  I thought Naomi Watts turned in a fantastic performance, raising her up ten-fold in my estimation of her as an actress.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 02, 2007, 03:07:50 PM
That should have been fetish.  Lynch also seems to love the idea of a chanteuse at the end of her rope, although Rebekka del Rio went against her character in turning Crying into a Spanish dirge. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 02, 2007, 10:27:38 PM
I confess that I didn't really understand "Mullholland Dr."

But I liked it, when the movie turns and you see the carnal and visceral and mean old ugly reality, it turns on it's head from a Nancy Drew story into basically the most horrible thing your imagination is capable of...so I thought about it, but I didn't let it move me out of the idea that Lynch is a pretty painter and and "art-school girl of doom"-type.  How he is able to make movies is a greater mystery, but I'm happy for his ability to do so, I like "Blue Velvet" a lot, a whole lot, I pair it with "Blood Simple" as a sort of re-imagining of the noir from a new perspective at a time when I was sort of like, wow, I haven't seen that before, and I also hadn't seen a whole lot of movies at the time.  To go back and watch something like "Touch of Evil" you realize that there's a beautiful sickness and disease around the edge of the genre, but the poetry of putting it right in two hours makes the truth of it nearly bearable.  Mullholland is more of a film for the pencil-necked geeks at "Cinema/Not Cinema," particularly Figg-Highsmith, who recently called "Porky's Revenge" the most stalwart avant-garde Molotov cocktail to the teen sex genre in history.  He's dead wrong:  The truth is that "The Party Animal" paved the way for everybody eating for free now.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 02, 2007, 10:33:33 PM
"Why did we basically make a guerilla film about teen perversion, masturbation, and nudity on a shoestring budget between bumps of cocaine and periodic psycholocical meltdown motivated only by the common good and artist's obligation to tell the truth no matter how prurient and obvious?  It was a good script, so we held it together like a family."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 12:04:46 AM

I have been wondering for the better part of a page,here, what the heck you people are talking about! This is the film that I was referring to, for very good reason, look at the cast! Also it is well-ploted and delves into some stuff to do with nuclear testing that is kept q.t. Threading that theme in after the sexual hanky-panky is well established was a brilliant scheme. I loved every second of this.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117107/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 12:07:17 AM
http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0117107/Ss/0117107/falls6.jpg.html?hint=group

David Lynch should live so long!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 12:53:06 AM
I didn't see Mulholland Falls either.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 12:56:33 AM
Well, you really must.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 01:02:36 AM
Maybe at some point I will, but I'm not really a Nick Nolte fan.  I can't even stand to look at him anymore.  Don't like Chris Penn much either, or Andrew McCarthy.  Seems Chazz Palminteri and John Malkovich are the movie's saving graces.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 01:58:59 AM
Very True. But this was old Nolte, before we knew all that stuff. It's also old Malkovich come to think of it.  Anyway because of the two ladies in the film, Melanie Griffith and Jennifer G.,it is technically a film noir with strange Los Angeles places to rendevous with unusual sexual suggestion. And the four federal men taking midnight rides up Mulholland just for the sport of it.   It turns out to be an unforgetable film, with you wondering how did they manage to crowd so much information into it.   

Besides, I thought it was your wife who liked Mulholland but then I had no idea it had even been a series.  This one is just so full of intrigue.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 02:45:15 AM
Mulholland Drive, not Falls, and Twin Peaks, the series.  She's become a Lynchian, for better and for worse.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 04:42:35 AM
On a different note, I see Criterion is coming out with new releases of Stranger than Paradise and Night on Earth on DVD.  Loved Stranger than Paradise,

http://www.criterion.com/asp/release.asp?id=400


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 03, 2007, 09:24:37 AM
Mad, I agree on Mul. Falls -- an intriguing radioactive noir. 

As for Jbot --

"Mullholland [Drive] is more of a film for the pencil-necked geeks...."

Then call me a Number Two!  I think one can take a different approach than the Cinema/Not Cinema analytic, i.e. just let a Lynch film wash over you and see what coalesces in your mind.  Demystification is for babies.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 03, 2007, 09:35:43 AM
On a different note, I see Criterion is coming out with new releases of Stranger than Paradise and Night on Earth on DVD.  Loved Stranger than Paradise,

http://www.criterion.com/asp/release.asp?id=400
One of my favorite Cleveland films.   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 09:36:15 AM
Are there more Cleveland films?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 03, 2007, 09:50:59 AM
http://imdb.com/name/nm0166470/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 03, 2007, 09:52:15 AM
Are there more Cleveland films?
American Splendor!  Also, The Fortune Cookie.

Howard the Duck, The Light of Day (shot in Cleveland, set in Chicago), The Deer Hunter (key scenes shot in Tremont's St. Theodius Russian Orthodox Cathedral, set in unnamed Pennsylvania Town), A Christmas Story (shot in Cleveland, set in unnamed Indiana town), Against the Ropes, Welcome to Collinwood, Antwon Fisher.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 09:53:09 AM
American Splendor!

How could I forget?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 03, 2007, 10:14:50 AM
Forgot Major League and Major League II - although the baseball stadium they shot in was Milwaukee's - and The Oh in Ohio.

But American Splendor and Stranger Than Paradise are probably the definitive Cleveland movies.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 03, 2007, 10:43:22 AM
The Fortune Cookie?   Or not so much?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 03, 2007, 10:54:26 AM
A personal favorite, for a handful of reasons.  But it does not really give you a sense of "Cleveland" like American Splendor or Stranger Than Paradise do.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 03, 2007, 11:46:44 AM
"La Vie en Rose" aka "La Mome"

Cotillard IS Piaf.

A present to all the Sistererns and Brethrens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjR5xFZxZK8&mode=related&search=




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 03, 2007, 12:25:36 PM
As good as American Splendor and Stranger than Paradise are, it is hard for me to imagine the Cleveland Chamber of Commerce endorsing these films.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 03, 2007, 12:30:33 PM
Same number of shots as scenes, really cool.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 03:20:52 PM
barton  re:#905

It's this one that I'm convinced he had in mind.

22. "Doctor in Charge" .... Nurse Dobbs (1 episode, 1973)

Ps,  WHISKEY, Have I got your number?  Maybe you were a burlesque comic in another lifetime.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 03:25:57 PM
"La Vie en Rose" aka "La Mome"

Cotillard IS Piaf.

A present to all the Sistererns and Brethrens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjR5xFZxZK8&mode=related&search=






Merci beaucoup, Martin.     Or, as we say in my family, "Beucoups de merci".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 03, 2007, 03:58:19 PM
barton  re:#905

It's this one that I'm convinced he had in mind.

22. "Doctor in Charge" .... Nurse Dobbs (1 episode, 1973)

Ps,  WHISKEY, Have I got your number?  Maybe you were a burlesque comic in another lifetime.

Geez, I only knew Carol Cleveland from Monty Python stuff, didn't know she did anything else.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 03, 2007, 08:16:41 PM
Yeah, thanks harrie and bart, I don't think anything with blue screen is a good idea unless you have Harry Potter or Spiderman, a known entity, so I don't think it's brain surgery or rocket science to decide not to spend money on "Evan" when you can always make "Iron Man," or any number or superhero movies for less...it's just a poor allocation of resources...

...I don't see the need for the film ultimately, it doesn't really fill any family-friendly fare space that isn't easily otherwise allocated.  The problem is that it's a snowball rolling downhill and it just never stops until everybody is convinging everybody that it's really funny and everybody is going to get rich...and nobody has the sack or the sobriety to put on the brakes...



This was well said J. 

I think I would only say that IMO there was nothing really wrong with the concept or the movie "at a more reasonable price"  -- Once they realized they couldn't do it for less than $50MM, you do have to wonder how it got away from them...   I think you nailed the kind of group think that tends to permeate far too many board rooms in America - -not just in the entertainment industry.  You put a domineering leader in a room with a bunch of people that are in fear of losing their jobs and this is what you get...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 03, 2007, 08:24:53 PM
Speaking of John Cusak...

I caught Pushing Tin last night for the first time.  I thought it was pretty funny.   The part that caught me off guard is that Cusak typically plays kind of a lovable character that you can identify with and like...    He played this role the same way (seemingly) but the guy made really bad choices and always let his ego lead him into more and more trouble...and you kept wondering whether he was a good person that just was human and made bad choices...or whether he was just not a very good person after all...

It was almost uncomfortable at points and I think because it reminded me a little bit of me when I was younger...

Good movies are supposed to challenge you -- right?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 03, 2007, 09:47:23 PM
I think John Cusack has a little bit of a screen presence and think that he gets a lot of cred for basically being a sympathetic, misunderstood type who is trying to figure out how he ever got into a particular situation.  He does frustration really well, but I think a lot of actors, particularly Robert Downey, Jr., and many, many others, get along on a sort of ability to draw you into their sale, even though you should know better...

...I don't think of Cusack as a "great actor," but then, I would rather see great entertainment as often as supposedly great movies, which are only really great about one-fifth of the time...

I mean I like Cusack, and liked his career mgt. up until "Must Love Dogs" (roof, roof) and the one about the Martian Boy or K-Pax, the Early Years, etc., right when the King one came out I thought he was about to jump the couch and then he gets right back on stable ground along with efforts like "Identity."

Trojan:  Thanks for the affirmation of my thinking regarding "Evan," I mean, asking the question "why do I want to see this movie?" over and over must help you make money in Hollywood and that one I never got, particularly because you have so many computer geeks to pay for fake animals.  It's like "Building the Pyramids," well, you know the CGI is going to cost a bundle so why not have some guy put a lot of mashed potatoes on his dinner table instead, it actually works to have stars and ideas, or at least one star and a tired idea, or a tired star and a provocative idea, I mean, watching animals board an ark is like thinking people would go see the Titanic sink, well, nevermind...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 04, 2007, 12:30:07 AM
trojanhorse, re:#918

"I caught Pushing Tin last night for the first time.  I thought it was pretty funny."


Pretty funny? I thought, "Hysterical"  Everybody trying to one up each other on the tower screens. Wasn't the computer-game less prevalent in 1999 than it is today? The tension was incredible. If you thought Billy Bob's devil-may-care-trip for dealing with it was the funniest thing seen in a long time, what's to be said for Angelina Jolie playing "straight woman" as his wife who does this with such a poker face(of solemnity, not uglified)knowing she is superior to all that, it was incredibly funny at the time, simply because -- we hardly knew her. Once you get used to this as really her, it loses that first effect but it is a hoot because she is standing everyone up, having them on, as witness the wife-swapping arrangement. I don't think that I really remembered who Cate Blanchett was either at the time; it's like my mind went blank and forgot that she plays more elegant captivating flirtatious things than the casting person had her programmed for here.

The best part is looking back and remembering that Ronald Reagan had deregulated the Tower personnel just about seventeen years earlier so that, by the time of this movie, we had  one disaster right after another with planes slipping off JFK for a dunk in the ocean because they slipped on the ice and didn't take off. Just,"Dunk!" We actually had more trouble with departures than arrivals. 1999 was the year of what I now call the All Saints Day massacre, or  All Hallows, if you wish, that was taking the northern route from New York to Europe where it would connect with a flight to Israel. Thus, it had a passenger list of Middle-eastern military types, and a few civilian passengers from here, there, and everywhere who picked it up in New York on the night of Halloween and ran into interference not long after they got out not much beyond the coastline. We have military installations in that area to monitor possible incoming missiles from the Northeast. A woman with a little knowledge of physics and math figured it out and reported it in The New York Review of Books, and the word went down to subjugate her with heavy insinuation that women can't figure these things out.  Washington,D.C. didn't want people to stop taking 8 hour flights to Europe or whatever and they weren't about to scrap our missile defense. Katie Couric decided because of the majority of passengers and the pilot and co-pilot that it was a suicide mission because she's such a super analyst.  I don't know that anyone subjugated her to any undue criticism for using the guess method and being female. Not until this last month anyway.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 04, 2007, 01:49:31 AM
Ronald Reagan?  Sure. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 04, 2007, 02:51:12 AM
"Transformers" did a 9 Monday, huh?"

The rat did 8, it think this thing is geeked and most kids go for the rat and not the computer robot.

I have no idea though.

I thought a 10 Wed. was good for DHWOAVandlivefree...but I was half right, meaning it was a happy meal, the servers are paid but they are looking for more people to feed next summer...

I never heard of something opening on a Mon., but the "Rat" creep has to be bad for business, just a guess, I know it sounds conra conventional wisdom but the last time Michael Bay did that he mad Logan's Run with nobodies, and pick your poison before, the retreat to animation seems especially "pussy," pardon girls, what, paying $40M before BBdeuce hits theaters not really doing it for the studio? 

So, before that we've got the Affleck one that killed that Clancy franchise and you found out a way to sink the Titanic by making an action movie out of "Pearl Harbor" because you have not only no vision of what it felt like to be attacked at that time, but because you are actually a dumb person, dumb enough to think, "nobody remembers 'Pearl Harbor'," well, dude, I can not believe people still talk to you but rock on...if transmo is your way out of movie jail you rock that thing.....but know that you SUPERSUCK.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 04, 2007, 03:53:34 AM
If GM is banking on Transformers to pull them out of the hole, they better hope for big numbers this weekend, which I don't think they are going to get.  But, maybe they can give an advance copy of the DVD to every customer who makes a GM purchase.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 04, 2007, 05:25:11 AM
That whole thing of making the SUV skew on the demand side of the equation has been somewhat undermined by the access to cheap oil, but I don't pretend to presume the economics of what we are doing over there.  Two dollar gas and the Envoy looks fine, three buck gets you a macked out Accord/Camry, and future certainty.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 04, 2007, 02:02:50 PM
dzimas,

Could be the last word on why Mulholland Falls differs from Mulholland Drive.

Fearing that I had mislabeled Jennifer Connelly as Kathy Gardiner or some such, I went back to cast and noticed something about the director.

Not Japanese as one might suppose by a passing glance, the director of Mulholland Falls is Lee Tamahori who directed: Once We Were Warriors.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 04, 2007, 03:41:58 PM
I liked Once We Were Warriors a lot.  Sad movie but so well done.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 05, 2007, 01:13:23 AM
Crud I liked "stranger than fiction...," but that whole "such a long time to be gone and a short time to be here..." gives me the usual trouble.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 05, 2007, 04:45:09 AM
Fascinating looking at All Time Box Offices, adjusted for inflation:

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

I had no idea The Graduate was such a big hit.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 05, 2007, 04:57:58 AM
That whole thing of making the SUV skew on the demand side of the equation has been somewhat undermined by the access to cheap oil, but I don't pretend to presume the economics of what we are doing over there.  Two dollar gas and the Envoy looks fine, three buck gets you a macked out Accord/Camry, and future certainty.

I don't know if it was the first movie with such automotive tie-ins, but as I remember Caterpillar figured heavily into Aliens, especially in Ripley's last stand.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 05, 2007, 09:35:45 AM
I was surprised at how much I liked "Drowining Mona". 

First of all, I think that "____ing ____" titles should be banned.  I mean, come on now.  Sure, "Raising Arizona" was great, but now there are like 20 "___ing ____" titled movies a year - enough already!!

But anyways, "DM" was really hilarious, with an ensemble cast playing low-life characters in a quaint-looking town in the mountains in rural NY state, which was chosen (in the movie) by the Yugo company as their "test market" or whatever, so all of the characters drive Yugos.  So if you like strange automotive tie-ins, maybe "Drowning Mona" is worth a look.

I found it to be very funny, beyond the Yugo thing.  I generally avoid anything in which Bette Midler might appear, but she's one of the best things about this movie, playing the shrewish title character perfectly and with glee, as the last person in the world you would ever want to meet.  Some of the funniest scenes involve Casey Affleck having to be polite and quiet as he has to sit there at the kitchen table and endure her ravings as he waits for his landscaping business partner, her idiot degenerate son (who is also hilarious), to get ready to go to with him to their job. 

If you can get past the whole "___ing ___" title thing, and I managed to do so, then you might find "DM" to be a nice little chuckle-inducer.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: desdemona222b on July 05, 2007, 09:45:24 AM
I watched Rebecca last night for the millionth time.  It's one of my favorite classics of the silver screen, but I find the more I watch it, the more hackneyed it seems.  Lawrence Olivier is quite ridiculous - as he said in his old age, "I was such a prig back then."  His theatrical acting is very amusing, especially when he loses his temper.  And all those scenes where they're in a car with the fake background moving furiously behind them, including bumps on the road, whereas they sat perfectly still.

If you guys are willing, could we have a discussion about just what it is that people thought was so great about this movie?  Mrs. Danvers stole the show, of course.  I'm curious as to just when in the timeline of film fake car scenes became unacceptable, even laughable.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 05, 2007, 10:22:06 AM
...It's one of my favorite classics of the silver screen, but I find the more I watch it, the more hackneyed it seems... I'm curious as to just when in the timeline of film fake car scenes became unacceptable, even laughable.

"North By Northwest" had some funny car (driver's face and fake wheel in the foregound, movie screen in place of the rear windshield in the background, etc., like in "Toonces, The Cat Who Could Drive") scenes, when the bad guys poured the booze down Cary Grant's throat and put him behind the wheel.

I loved "NxNW" and it's better than 99% of movies they make these days, I know, so when I say this, try to resist the urge to say, "Come on OCB, get your head out of your ass, you know that old movies are way better than new movies, etc."  You're right, it is, and they are, but still, for some reason I have a hard time watching old movies for the reasons to which Desdemona222b alludes.

I mean, "Miller's Crossing" is my 2nd favorite movie ever, so when I read it was based on "The Glass Key", I said, hey, I like Dashiell Hammett books, and I loved "MC", so I'll check out "TGK".  As I watched "TGK", the same thought crossed my mind that has crossed my mind so many times before when watching old movies - that the actors all seemed stiff or something, like they're throwing lines at each other.

I know, they are saying lines, it's a movie, etc., but still - the whole "Hello Joe, whattya know, 23-skiddoo, say-mac, yeah, see," etc., with everyone in the movie sounding like they're doing an Edward G. Robinson impression thing kind of makes me tune out.  And I know, you'd be right to say, "Come on OCB, you're complaining about mannered-sounding dialogue, and yet you say you like Coen Bros movies?  They wrote the book on mannered-sounding dialogue...," but for some reason it's just different, I don't know why.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 05, 2007, 10:24:51 AM
For the record, "Eating Raoul" preceded such Verb/Name films as Raising Arizona and Driving Miss Daisy.  I have yet to rent "Feeling Minnesota," another member of the verb/U.S. State title subgenre.  Sometimes you just have to go with your gut.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 05, 2007, 10:31:50 AM
"Sure, 'Raising Arizona' was great, but..."

I agree with your premise of ___ing movies, but in the case of RA, at least it was a joke on "raising hell" (please note that in MC, the quote "I guess you think you've 'raised hell...."/"When I've raised hell sister you'll know it..."), and not so much the case of "Feeling Minnesota," etc., but I guess in that case you are still feeling a place, but it's not a good joke or a good title.  Whenever you have something like "Judging Amy," see, she is a judge, and so that makes for a very quaint title, i.e., in looking at the TV when that show is on, in a sense, we are all "judging Amy," or her life.  But again, not funny.

I forget the number of films that have the -ing thing going for it but the worst are the one's with someone's name as the subject in name, a person, of the whatevery you are -ingING...which Mona fits the bill, but I agree that it's a film that's worth a second look when I thought it was going to be something like one of those FIND THE WILL BECAUSE DADDY IS DEAD type of allegedly quirky movies, this one was sincerely twisted and smart and funny.  

I'm drawing a blank on the "-ing" movies at the moment, but maybe that's because they are so forgettable and typically have some sort of "aaaaawwwww" or sentimental alleged appeal.  

Having said that,  I liked "Killing Zoe" as one of the pulper than pulp fiction films along with "Things to do in Denver when You're Dead," that actually hold up to scrutiny, I forget the other films that tried to hunt the same dog and hope that KZ didn't precede PF, but anyway, most of them were utter failures devoid of imagination, innovation, humor or heart.  I think I'm forgetting a couple that could arguably be added to the list like the Desert Kiefer Sutherland one but most especially not "Boondock Saints," the prom queen of shit ripoffs with no brain.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 05, 2007, 10:51:46 AM
It's mostly a bummer when the 2nd word is an object, like

Saving Silverman
Finding Forrester
Pushing Tin

but it's not so bad when it's not, like

Starting Over
Falling Down
Being There



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 05, 2007, 10:57:46 AM
Guarding Tess.

Haven't seen this, but I've heard it's rather bland and cloying.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 05, 2007, 11:06:21 AM
Owning Mahoney
Taking Lives
Losing Isiah
etc.

When you've got a "the" in there, it lessens the blow:

Gleaming The Cube
Touching The Void



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 05, 2007, 11:38:45 AM
Yeah, but you can look toward the prevailing wind and run your fingers through your hair, and say, "Baby, maybe I got too greedy out there [pause] gleaming...the...[tearing up]...cube..."

I knew a guy in college who would enter a room [southern accent] with "Well, JEAN-CLAUDE VANNE DAMN!!! you sorry _____  _____ers, any of you ladies drinking this [football] morning!!!"  Or some variation thereon.

At least they never made "Tickling the Ivorys" about a square family that has Robin Williams move in as an older retarded guy.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 05, 2007, 11:43:28 AM
I always like thinking of provocative titles, like "Dash the Hope," or "I Bash Harold" or "I Somebody Something," no, that's really the title, get it?

Or you could just "Molly," [glug]


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 05, 2007, 02:27:01 PM
Oilcanboyd23< #930-something
"They wrote the book on mannered-sounding dialogue...," but for some reason it's just different, I don't know why."

ARE YOU overlooking the fact that you are discussing period movies? That is: movies made in a period when the dialogue was perfectly understandable to the movie goer because the movie goer spoke that way. I've been going to movies since prior to age three, there was no other way to go, so I've heard everything. Sounded perfectly normal to me. In fact, it is entirely possible that Americans now learn their language from not just movies but those fave celebrealities in that other forum. Some nits did a show last night that I overheard while typing because i couldn't bother to get up from the computer and turn it off as background noise. They were discussing why we pick on celebrities and what do people in the rest of the world think of us for doing so; American custom?

Then the blondes rattled off that it is almost always the blonde who gets picked on (who can't learn her dialogue anyway). Britney,Paris, and Diana are the big three this week.  Well the latter was just shy, supposedly, she eventually found her tongue effectively enough.

As someone guilty of bashing the Bush "babes" yesterday, I shouldn't complain or even run out and do a survey on who is cool for dialogue and who isn't but I maintain we get it from them because they go to better parties than we do.

You can't do a thing about the titles, unless you want to approach the studios and pitch yourself at them, these guys are generally in your age group aren't they or are  you more or less?  You have got to become a producer. Snarky job but they seem to make a living at it, if you call that a living, yeah baby!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 05, 2007, 02:44:51 PM
Oilcanboyd23< #930-something
"They wrote the book on mannered-sounding dialogue...," but for some reason it's just different, I don't know why."

ARE YOU overlooking the fact that you are discussing period movies?

Yeah, I guess so, I don't know.  Maybe people in the 1930's and 1940's and 1950's really did walk around saying things like "Hello joe, whattaya know?" and "Yaaah, see," and so forth, all using an Edward G. Robinson impression-voice.

I remember seeing a documentary about the communist hearings with Senator McCarthy and all of that, and they showed some actor testfying before Congress.  I don't remember if it was Cary Grant or if he even testified, but I do remember the guy I saw was a handsome leading-man type.  They asked him "What do you think of Communism?" and he replied, "Well, I don't know what I'm talking about... but I don't like it, because... it's not on the level..."

Anyways, all I know is that when I see/hear the old-timey-talk in movies, it sort of makes me tune out or whatever.  I guess that makes me small-minded or something, but that's just one of many things in that category, etc.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: desdemona222b on July 05, 2007, 02:50:14 PM
I know what you mean - things like "Wow!  That's swell!"

Cagney is the one who always got me.   That was during a time when most of the movies were made with actors who hailed from the New York City area.  "I'm gonna be watching ya - ya see?  Ya see?"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 05, 2007, 04:38:29 PM
Yeah, but I like "The Big Sleep" a lot, and it was written by William Faulkner, and I think more of the pace of the dialogue than the words said.  If you're looking to noir, especially something like "Miller's Crossing" there's really no other way for Bernie Birnbaum to talk, or the Buscemi character, because they are fast-talkers, the same way the Italian is, and the funny thing that sets the pace off is how measured the dialogue of Tom is, unless he is angry or intent on making a point, of course, he is also often half-cocked and sarcastic, you know, drunk.  So I really don't know what's not to love about old movies when for one thing they were more driven on words and exposition, rather than the visual, and I think you went through a star-period where it was more about showing pretty people on screen, but it's also not like there were a lot of car-chases and planes either.  So, there's probably no movie more "talky" than "The Big Sleep," and I like when Bogart tells somebody and his ape to climb some other tree for a while, etc., you can't watch "The Big Sleep" and think, "I don't like old movies," because to me that would  be the equivalent of saying "I don't like movies...," and I know you're not saying that oil, but it's really a matter of what's tiresome and what's not.  Tom in "Miller's," and I'm glad that you brought this point up, is decidedly not a fast talker, and a great listener, like when he lets Finney or anyone else talk, because at the heart of it Tom is a cold-blooded killer, or at least cold-blooded, or at least a killer, except for the fact that he's got no good reason but love to initially spare Bernie, except for the other reasons he has for doing it...

Anyway, I think that the pace of his dialogue is important, and changes depending on who he is talking to, it's almost as if the faster you talk the more of a liar you are except for Tom and Verna, who talk quite normally, and Finney who is tired.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: peloux on July 05, 2007, 10:13:31 PM
I liked Once We Were Warriors a lot.  Sad movie but so well done.

Another "Sad movie but so well done" is, IMO, The Dead Girl, a fairly recent release. Although the title is fairly revealing, I would probably have not walked out of Blockbuster with this one in hand if I had taken the time to read the blurbs and the summary on the back of the case.* The subject matter is just not my cup of tea but I was interested throughout. A girl is murdered and we learn how that effects a number of people, some who knew her and some who did not. The acting is excellent. This is an indie made by a woman whose name I don't even remember but she did real good. (**** Netflix rating system)

Pet Peeve Alert
*Summaries give generally more about a movie than I want to know about a film and I try to go as cold turkey as I can when choosing a film. Recently I saw a movie knowing nothing about it going in and then read the plot summary on Neflix. I was amazed. I went back through the movie and made notes as to when the main points given in the summary actually became known to the viewer as the movie progressed. There were five points made in the summary. The first one did not make itself known until 21 minutes into the movie. The next, at 44 minutes.  You had to get to 67 minutes into a 114 minute movie for the last piece of information given in the plot summary to reveal  itself. Clearly, this is knowing too much for too long.  I’m sure a moviemaker does not make the assumption that the viewer is aware of the plot beforehand.  Therefore (I would think) a great deal of care is taken at the exposition stage. All this care and hard work is for nought if we are told in advance. I want the movie to reveal itself to me, and I would think that's the way the moviemaker would want it as well. Most summaries reveal far, far too much. When is the last time you watched a film knowing next to nothing about it. It's fun. Still (uncomfortable disclosure), I am not so brave as to turn off the summaries altogether (Netflix does give you a preference), but I let my eyes fall to the bottom to see who the actors are and I’ll scan the first couple of lines of the summary, but that’s it.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 05, 2007, 11:04:31 PM
Oilcanboyd  re:#941

"Yeah, I guess so, I don't know.  Maybe people in the 1930's and 1940's and 1950's really did walk around saying things like "Hello joe, whattaya know?" and "Yaaah, see," and so forth, all using an Edward G. Robinson impression-voice."


 By today's standards, I don't find that odd because most of us do off the cuff approximations of the people who impress us with the most audacious way of putting something.  It is apparently socially effective.

The guy that you probably saw as a Hollywood Lead type was probably Gary Cooper who was known for having ratted out his fellow-members of the Screen Actors Guild, not to mention writers, directors,etc.   I got the impression that he was none too bright, sort of the George Bush of his time.  People seen as heroic types then, usually effected a home-spun simple naivete as if that made for honesty and virtue. I guess,grown women liked him.  i wasn't.   Maybe he was the Matthew McConnaughy of his day?  They put him in a Marlene Dietrich film for one of his early roles; I bet that impressed her. She was going with people like Erich Marie Remarque and one of those Italian sportscar company owners and racers but don't remember which one anymore, plus long term friendship with Hemingway, a husband at home, eventually Frank Sinatra and Yul Brynner.  At least she did something for the country, ours, during the war, which is more than I can say about Gary Cooper.

I liked the weirdos, Peter Lorre, for example. And villains like that Sanders guy, who was actually twins.  For some reason, I can't think of any "heart throbs" of that era. Nobody stands out in my mind. Of course, I confessed over in American History that I wanted to  run away to sea and be a pirate along with Tyrone Power.

As time wore on, I absolutely hated Michael Douglas father before I knew there was a Michael Douglas to detest, Kirk --that's right with the almighty cleft-chin, whereas on the other hand come to think of it Stacy Keach with the cleft lip was endlessly fascinating by the time he made it to the big time.  His television performances had been menacing. Did he ever play a good guy?

And then there was the fastidious Clifton Webb....
Who turned out to be the bad guy in, Laura.

Dana Andrews was a real pain; but so were a number of character actors who did Westerns, and crime stories as punks because of some physical distortion that kept them on the books because that type-cast them and that was convenient for casting.

I never saw what Doris Day saw in Rock Hudson. I never could get with Paul Newman until he was a gorgeous scrappy old man who had mellowed. Jack Lemmon had a bad start also, but some of that was due to the Squareness of the era we were enduring; his talent blossomed as another time loosened up,  Forerunner of Jack Nicholson, no doubt. Best Nicholson performance, opposite Faye Dunaway with  Polanski to contend with, in the Robert Towne classic, Chinatown.

They all used the colloquialisms of their time.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 05, 2007, 11:45:41 PM
Regarding "Once Were Warriors," I would point you toward any lawn management crew, they are mostly Mexican, too, and, as I'm sure some of us were, "Once Warriors..."

I'm sick of Mexicans, sorry...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 06, 2007, 01:38:32 AM
And everything adds to 23 if you have the stones for it...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 06, 2007, 01:41:00 AM
'I never saw what Doris Day saw in Rock Hudson. I never could get with Paul Newman until he was a gorgeous scrappy old man who had mellowed. Jack Lemmon had a bad start also, but some of that was due to the Squareness of the era we were enduring; his talent blossomed as another time loosened up,  Forerunner of Jack Nicholson, no doubt. Best Nicholson performance, opposite Faye Dunaway with  Polanski to contend with, in the Robert Towne classic, Chinatown.'

The way I do it I say "I like 'Chinatown'"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 06, 2007, 01:50:31 AM
...as a senior member, with an open j-bottle, [glug]...if you know me as incoherency boy, welcome, if not, go paint yourself on a wall with a shotgun, sheesh, did I just say that?, heck, I kind of like that line, no prob and only jokes as usual, yours, jbottle...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 06, 2007, 02:37:32 AM
Maybe we are thinking of different movies here, but Once We Were Warriors was about the modern-day plight of Maoris in New Zealand,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110729/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 06, 2007, 02:39:08 AM
... but then I guess you were referring to your lawn crew.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 06, 2007, 09:34:10 AM
1408 is the best horror film I've seen in a long time. 

Adult diapers recommended.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 06, 2007, 10:49:13 AM
1408 is the best horror film I've seen in a long time. 

I liked "1408", but my perception was a bit skewed (or slanted or whatever) in the movie's favor, because I was sitting next to a group of early-teen-age girls who were screaming their heads off at every "boo!" shot (and there were a lot of those), and they would moan "ohhh noooo...." (one was actually crying) whenever it seemed like there might be a "boo!" shot coming up soon. 

It wasn't moaning/crying like "get me out of here" or whatever, but rather the kind you see on a roller-coaster ride, like yeah, the person is moaning/crying, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're not enjoying the ride.

Anyways, for all I know, the movie may have actually sucked, but when you're sitting next to a group of people who are that into the movie, how can you not enjoy it?

***SPOILER ALERT***

Hey Barton, were you a little miffed that Cusack didn't go meet with Sam Jackson at the end?  I know you get the shot of Jackson admiring Cusack's moxie in managing to escape (something like "Well done, Mr. Ensling" or whatever), and I know that Cusack emerges from the experience a changed person, ready to move on with his life and shed the cynicism he harbored after his daughter's suffering, etc., but still, all of that notwithstanding, you would still think that Cusack would feel compelled to go visit Jackson, especially given the depth of their discussion at their intial meeting, no?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 06, 2007, 11:23:27 AM
oilcanboyd23   Re:#955

Anyways, for all I know, the movie may have actually sucked, but when you're sitting next to a group of people who are that into the movie, how can you not enjoy it?

The one and only time I saw that happen with a mixed audience of all ages, including a large adolescent contingent, was Fahrenheit 9/11, in a place where I never thought he'd have fans!  They absolutely agreed with his take on the war.

The not less odd response unexpected  was when the lights went up after Broke Back Mountain; and clusters of senior citizen women were gathering in the top rows to swap stories of memories brought back to them of relatives whose true life experiences they were sharing with each other.

These two occasions did much to convince me that the so-called Red states were being incorrectly represented, by their Representatives who wanted to look good to each other in Congress by boasting I've got the nastiest bunch of redneck constituency supporting the President, a much tougher bunch of hell-raisers than your constituents, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 06, 2007, 11:24:20 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't have minded a bit of followup with SLJ.  I almost wondered, after "nicely done" shot if SLJ had sort of tried to set things up, or at least steer them, a bit.  Now SLJ can shut down that room permanently, which he wanted to do (remember, in the intro, how he makes some reference to management not taking his recommendation...).




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: law120b on July 06, 2007, 11:49:00 AM
after i saw brokeback with jbottle, all he could say for days was how he jest cain't quit me.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 06, 2007, 12:05:10 PM
after i saw brokeback with jbottle, all he could say for days was how he jest cain't quit me.

He told us he never saw "BBM", and that it was "Derailed" that he saw with you.  We were like, hey it's okay, man, but he was all like, no, really, it was "Derailed", see, it says so right here on the ticket stub, etc.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: law120b on July 06, 2007, 12:51:49 PM
that's funny, he told me we saw derailed too, but it was bbm, i could almost swear.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 06, 2007, 02:37:44 PM
I thought that OWW was that one where the Mexican drinks too much and beats the shit out of his wife, if not, and it turns out he was Maori instead, my bad.

"Derailed" was so good that I saw it five times, I think maybe once I slid over into "Chronicles of Narnia," but then went right back, immediately to "Derailed," to, uh, join my girlfriend, etc.

Then I went for Skittles.  And then Milk Duds. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 04:31:11 PM
I'm about a day and a half late with this, but the discussion of dated sounding dialogue in older movies reminded me of Man of the Century, a 1999 flick starring Gibson Frasier.  Or Frasier Gibson.  He plays a 1920's-ish throwback Pollyanna-guy named Johnny Twennies (I know) who functions in contemporary Manhattan.  It's a very silly film, but his dialogue -- he may even say "23-Skidoo" -- stands out like a sore thumb at first.  And maybe it's that he keeps the facade going so consistently, but after a while the anachronistic terms don't scream out at you any more, they're just part of who he is.  Everyone else in the film is pretty contemproary, and some express disbelief at Johnny's whole deportment and speech; but as he's a good guy, most learn to accept him and get on with life.

I also think there's no timeline cutoff for bad writing or stilted dialogue.  When I'm flipping through the movie channels, sometimes I time it just right to catch a clanger; and often it's in a relatively recent movie.  And not just Cameron Crowe ones.   

A historic favorite of our family is The Rare Breed.  At one point Maureen O'Hara tells John Wayne "You may bulldog a steer, but you cannot bulldog me!"  And we all just laughed our asses off and walked around saying that for days the first time we heard it.  So I guess the bottom line for me is, bad writing is a universal truth, and it's here to stay.  But as times and speech patterns change, maybe it's just easier to pick out in some things than others.   Or not.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 04:40:05 PM
And I watched The Magdalene Sisters the other night.  Based on the real Magdalene Laundries in Ireland that closed in the mid-1990s, it was the dramatized story of four real (I think) girls who were sent there for various offenses (ranging from unwed motherhood to flirting with boys).  It was quite disturbing and very sad, but totally riveting. To me anyway.  It was so not pretty, but I'd watch it again for the performances alone.  And of course for the big "fuck you" scene at the end.   So that was a 2002 flick; eventually I'll work my way up to something contemporary.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 05:16:58 PM



*Summaries give generally more about a movie than I want to know about a film and I try to go as cold turkey as I can when choosing a film. Recently I saw a movie knowing nothing about it going in and then read the plot summary on Neflix. I was amazed. I went back through the movie and made notes as to when the main points given in the summary actually became known to the viewer as the movie progressed. There were five points made in the summary. The first one did not make itself known until 21 minutes into the movie. The next, at 44 minutes.  You had to get to 67 minutes into a 114 minute movie for the last piece of information given in the plot summary to reveal  itself. Clearly, this is knowing too much for too long.  I’m sure a moviemaker does not make the assumption that the viewer is aware of the plot beforehand.  Therefore (I would think) a great deal of care is taken at the exposition stage. All this care and hard work is for nought if we are told in advance. I want the movie to reveal itself to me, and I would think that's the way the moviemaker would want it as well. 

[/quote]

This is a great point.  The same could be said for watching previews - sometimes they just give away too much and the studio allows this in the name of marketing...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 05:29:42 PM
My wife can't stand to watch old movies with me--for the same reasons most of you have mentioned...  I guess to each his (or her own)

I'm a big history buff and I love watching old movies precisely because they give you some insight to what things were really like - while not perfect, let's face it you're 50 years (or whatever) "closer to the source."  Yes, it could have been stilted writing, but it was still part of the culture of the day to be sure.   I'm a bit more put off by the complete lack of concern for factual accuracy in very old movies -- they obviously went with the theory that no one will know the difference so why bother with research or accurate casting, etc...  For the first eight years of my life, I thought Native Americans looked like Caucasians with really good tans.  When I met my first "American Indian" face to face, I was shocked.   ...and I'm even part Native American (though a small part).

One of my all time favorite "OLD" movies is The Philadelphia Experiment.  You get a whole new appreciation for Katherine Hepburn the first time you see that one...





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: desdemona222b on July 06, 2007, 06:34:26 PM
And I watched The Magdalene Sisters the other night.  Based on the real Magdalene Laundries in Ireland that closed in the mid-1990s, it was the dramatized story of four real (I think) girls who were sent there for various offenses (ranging from unwed motherhood to flirting with boys).  It was quite disturbing and very sad, but totally riveting. To me anyway.  It was so not pretty, but I'd watch it again for the performances alone.  And of course for the big "fuck you" scene at the end.   So that was a 2002 flick; eventually I'll work my way up to something contemporary.

I thought that movie was really gut-wrenching, too.   What was the name of the character at the nunnery who was finally committed to an asylum?  God she was good in that movie.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 06, 2007, 06:42:11 PM
trojanhorse, #965

You are thinking of The Philadelphia Story, directed by George Cukor. The Experiment by that name was strictly tv.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 06:54:34 PM
trojanhorse, #965

You are thinking of The Philadelphia Story, directed by George Cukor. The Experiment by that name was strictly tv.

Sorry...you are absolutley correct.  I've not seen it in probably 10-15 years...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 07:07:07 PM
I thought that movie was really gut-wrenching, too.   What was the name of the character at the nunnery who was finally committed to an asylum?  God she was good in that movie.

Crispina was the poor girl.  Played by Eileen (I think?) Walsh.  I haven't seen her in anything else; but if I see her name in credits, I'd definitely check it out just based on her being in it.  The girl who played Bernadette looked really familiar to me, but the only credit I recognized was Fairy #1 in Ella Enchanted; I thought she was excellent, too. Not to mention beautiful.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 07:21:19 PM
That was Eileen Walsh who played Crispina.  Her first credit is The Van, which I've been hoping to see but I think figured out for some reason I will not on TV -- maybe some rights tie-up or something.  The Van is part three of a trilogy of sorts, The Commitments and The Snapper being the other parts.   http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0909626/ 

Nora-Jane Noone was Bernadette.  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1172901/ 

And it was apparently James Stewart to whom Maureen O'Hara spoke the "bulldog" line -- my bad. Whenever I think of O'Hara, I guess I automatically go to John Wayne. 

And The Philadelphia Story -- much as I love it -- contains one of those script things that drives me nuts.  It's that whole "My she was yar..."  and "Am I yar..."  and stuff.  It's just so affected sounding, IMHO.   

Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 07:54:40 PM

And The Philadelphia Story -- much as I love it -- contains one of those script things that drives me nuts.  It's that whole "My she was yar..."  and "Am I yar..."  and stuff.  It's just so affected sounding, IMHO.   



Ok, but haven't you had the experience of being around technical professionals in a field (be it medical, or engineering, or accounting or whatever) where two people are communicating with each other and you don't have any idea what they are talking about?

Or of two people from a different socio-economic status than yourself communicating in a language you don't understand (whether you consider them to be above or below your station)?

Once in awhile you may have the feeling that they are doing it on purpose to try to impress onlookers or whatever (therefore are "affected") but clearly there are different terms that evolve and apply within different groups. That's just the nature of the world isn't it?

I used to do quite a lot of sailing so I am certainly familiar with the expression "yar" but have to admit, I never heard it used in normal conversation -- but then, I didn't belong to the social elite in the 1930's -- and I don't personally know anyone that did, so it isn't my place to make the call as to whether that might have been commonplace in those circles.   Anymore than someone 70 years from now will quite get the subtleties of someone calling a thin person "Phat" in a movie made in this era.

Personally, I think it was just a mechanism the writers used to emphasize the difference in "class status" between Jimmie Stewart's character and Hepburn's.  It probably "was" affected, but it still tells you something about the times and about the writers of the times -- if nothing else...  "Americans" don't tend to like pretentious snobs.  This identified her as one of those...and yet we still liked her...because she was playful and very human and flawed...and they showed us this too.

To me, the movie was meant to break down the "social" barriers and point out "good hearted" people from "mean spirited" people -- there were those on both sides of the class struggle that was going on throughout the movie...

I just found the dynamics of all the characters fascinating...we could spend days talking about what the writers were trying to do...

In fact, just talking about it makes me want to watch it again and see if it is as good as I remember it...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 08:19:35 PM
Ok, but haven't you had the experience of being around technical professionals in a field (be it medical, or engineering, or accounting or whatever) where two people are communicating with each other and you don't have any idea what they are talking about?

Or of two people from a different socio-economic status than yourself communicating in a language you don't understand (whether you consider them to be above or below your station)?

Once in awhile you may have the feeling that they are doing it on purpose to try to impress onlookers or whatever (therefore are "affected") but clearly there are different terms that evolve and apply within different groups. That's just the nature of the world isn't it?

I agree, yar is jargon of sorts; and I grew up on boats, too, though I didn't grow up on the Philadelphia Main Line.  (I can still drop/haul an anchor and tie a good bowline.)  For me, it's not so much the use of the word as the unnatural-sounding way in which Hepburn says "yar." And I know she grew up on the water (in Old Saybrook, CT), so it should sound natural coming from her. But to me it doesn't, it seems to stick out like a sore thumb.

Now that I start thinking about it, though, I think a lot of Hepburn lines sound funky, stilted, fake -- so maybe my issue is really with Hepburn, not with The Philadelphia Story.  Tha may be blasphemy, but that may be where I actually stand.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 08:28:40 PM

Now that I start thinking about it, though, I think a lot of Hepburn lines sound funky, stilted, fake -- so maybe my issue is really with Hepburn, not with The Philadelphia Story.  Tha may be blasphemy, but that may be where I actually stand.

To paraphrase another old sailor:  "You gotta feel how you gotta feel"  Nothing wrong with that...

But now for the real test...How does William F. Buckley, Jr. strike you?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 08:32:57 PM
He might surprise you...

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp

Her character in this movie reminds me of Buckley in some strange way.  All arrogance and puffed up as he often is...and yet, I think that is the point of The Philadelphia Story.  If we try to understand what makes people who they are and why they think the way they do, we're halfway home...  We shouldn't rush to judge.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 08:34:27 PM

To paraphrase another old sailor:  "You gotta feel how you gotta feel"  Nothing wrong with that...

But now for the real test...How does William F. Buckley, Jr. strike you?

See, he's all lockjawed and stuff, but in that case it doesn't bother me.  I'm talking about delivery only -- that doesn't mean I agree with anything he says.

Sometimes Hepburn strikes me as very stagey -- that is, she's not talking to Cary Grant (or Jimmy Stewart, or whomever), but to the back row of the theater.  The theater that isn't there, because this is a movie. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 08:37:32 PM
He might surprise you...

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp

...If we try to understand what makes people who they are and why they think the way they do, we're halfway home...  We shouldn't rush to judge.

Okay, I don't disagree with everything Buckley has said.  But don't try to reason with me -- it won't work. 
(just kidding, in case there's any doubt)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 08:39:08 PM

To paraphrase another old sailor:  "You gotta feel how you gotta feel"  Nothing wrong with that...

But now for the real test...How does William F. Buckley, Jr. strike you?

See, he's all lockjawed and stuff, but in that case it doesn't bother me.  I'm talking about delivery only -- that doesn't mean I agree with anything he says.

Sometimes Hepburn strikes me as very stagey -- that is, she's not talking to Cary Grant (or Jimmy Stewart, or whomever), but to the back row of the theater.  The theater that isn't there, because this is a movie. 

I actually do know what you mean here...   she has a rather overly dramatic delivery at times and in this movie I couldn't tell whether she didn't know how to portray the role of the social elite, or the director was asking her to perform in a way that he felt was appropriat3e for the role, or whether she was uncomfortable playing herself.  That caused me to do a little research on her at the time, because I honestly wondered which was the case...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 06, 2007, 09:02:09 PM
You have a point -- for me, it might be more of a Cukor issue.  I also hate Hepburn's delivery in Holiday, though I like the movie well enough.  Guess who directed....Cukor again.  So maybe Hepburn's just his victim in the movies where I take issue with her performance. 

In Bringing Up Baby, I thought Hepburn was just shrill -- but the whole movie was, most of the time.  I absolutely heart Cary Grant, but even he annoys me in BUB.  I did actually like Hepburn very much in Desk Set and The African Queen; so I'm not an across the board Hepburn hater.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: desdemona222b on July 06, 2007, 10:34:52 PM
harrie -

I took some online test purporting to discern what accent you have a few months back - sorry but I don't have link.  It was really funny because it told me that my distinctive accent was pure Philadephian.  (I have a generic southern accent!)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 02:27:44 AM
Hepburn did not have a Philadelphia accent. She was from Connecticut and there is something much worse that her inadvertently carrying her theatrical skills to the movie set, which was all it was you know; it was a period transition from going to theatre to going to the movies and she was trained in the theatre. The something worse is:

Watching Cate Blanchett imitate her in  The Aviator for the sake of Leonard Di Caprio.

Kate Hepburn nonetheless was  not just playing elite. She was, and she may have been trying to approximate the accent from down here because she went to school here at Bryn Mawr and would have had contact with others at school who came from the Main Line.  About every year or so, I wander down that way because it is a direct bee-line, and then I look around and say, "Gawd, am I glad, I decided that Bryn Mawr looked funky and having seen better days because this is really a touchy area to live in. If we ever have a social disaster, which of course we can any minute, some blatant act of you know what and people freek, that is not the place to be located.".

Does anyone think Grace Kelly had a Main Line accent?

Ps. I absolute loathe Buckley, but I will finish reading the article because he seems to be on to something. I hate him because he was so impressive when I was young. He made one want to be an intellectual. Just not a crude, nasty mean-spirited unevolved human being like he was.

He must be taking some very interesting medication these days, nothing ordinary, because a year or so ago, I read that periodical and happened upon a page where he was giving a little test to who ever, I think it was directed at children. Now, imagine to yourself what kind of children read
the National Review? There are some, you know. In his childhood, he was the kind of boy who would have been reading it.  Anyway he was being very condescending like Uncle William F and I decided, he has got to be senile. Since he is now apparently much improved, that is some combo his half dozen doctors are prescribing unless he is take trips overseas for clinical growth hormone.

Let's face it, he is not Gore Vidal.  It's all in your parentage, somehow. Who was William F. Buckley,Sr. ?  Never mind, I don't really want to know that much about them.  One junior and senior has been quite enough recently for one life time but then multiply it by the total population here and there, and there too.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 02:42:41 AM
harrie, re:#970

"Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference. "

Hate to break it to you, it is Billy Wilder's fault. He not only directed this play transposed to the movies (It used to be Sabrina Fair, and  I knew the lines from understudy or holding the book, can't remember)but he wrote the script.  I never liked Holden anyway. Looked forward to seeing him in Sunset Strip and it was a big let down.  He always did these cornball roles like, Picnic.

Bogart deserved to get the girl.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 07, 2007, 04:25:34 AM
William Holden was great in Network.  For that matter so was everyone.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 07, 2007, 04:29:21 AM
I thought Hepburn was great with Tracy in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, but I can't say I'm awestruck by her.  I don't know what kind of accent she has, but it always struck me as upper crust.  I liked the scene in Aviator were Hughes is invited out to the family estate and can't stand the sight of the food, or the company for that matter.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 07, 2007, 07:56:21 AM
Quote
And The Philadelphia Story -- much as I love it -- contains one of those script things that drives me nuts.  It's that whole "My she was yar..."  and "Am I yar..."  and stuff.  It's just so affected sounding, IMHO.
It's probably been mentioned, but I think she was supposed to sound affected.  Tracy Lord has the upper class upbringing that is supposed to clash with Mike's working class background.

I love TPS unreservedly.  The dialogue is sharper than a seprant's tooth, and Grant is wonderful in it.

Quote
Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference.
You dis Billy Wilder.  I am forced to have to ask you to step outside so that I may defend his memory.  Up with your dukes, ma'am!

Actually, Sabrina is my least favorite Wilder, even with Audrey (sigh), my favorite of the Hepburn twins.  But it is so much better than the remake that I blame the source material for being hopeless.  Also, Wilder was in that neverland between his two great writing partners - Charles Brackett and I. A. L. Diamond, so perhaps that is what's missing.

mad -

Holden is great, especially in Sunset Blvd. which is in demonstrable fact the second greatest movie ever made.  You are just so very wrong.

I am surprised that in the Gerund Movie discussion, no one mentioned Romancing the Stone, and jbottle's favorite movie, Romancing the Bone.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 07, 2007, 10:55:38 AM
harrie, re:#970

"Also, with Sabrina (the Holden/Hepburn/Bogart one) I'm sooo there with the whole story, right up to the boardroom scene where Bogart punches Holden and Holden says "See? You do love her."  It just sounds so stupid to me.  With all the clever lines Holden had during the movie, he couldn't come up with something better?  And I'm saying Holden as in his character, David, and whoever wrote the script.  I know Holden can't be held responsible, but he's my frame of reference. "

Hate to break it to you, it is Billy Wilder's fault.

I....I.....I just couldn't bring myself to face that possibility.  Despite that one clanger, I run a close second to whiskeypriest in devotion to all things Wilder.  Except for certain aspects of The Fortune Cookie, too.  I'd better stop right now.  Though if whiskeypriest is whupped from moving, maybe I'll do well with the fisticuffs.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 07, 2007, 12:03:24 PM
Romancing the Stone did cross my mind, in the gerund/noun movie title chat, but I didn't mention it. 

Somewhere between the late 80s and the mid-90s, Kathleen Turner underwent some kind of transformation that caused me to be a little concerned about her health.  I don't follow celebrity lives, but I have wondered if she had some kind of drug problem at that time.


And, while I'm on this bleak subject, I hear that Christian Bale is taking on yet another scarecrow "tuna and apples" role, which I find kind of alarming.  You are pressing your luck, Mr. Bale.




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 07, 2007, 12:10:41 PM
BTW, I checked and "Rescue Dawn" (in which the aforementioned Bale emaciates himself as a POW) is opening in a couple weeks in the U.S.  I must also note that this character, a German-American pilot shot down in Laos, is named "Dieter."  This orthographic accident would almost be funny if it didn't remind me of what Bale is doing to himself.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 07, 2007, 01:10:59 PM
Romancing the Stone did cross my mind, in the gerund/noun movie title chat, but I didn't mention it. 

Somewhere between the late 80s and the mid-90s, Kathleen Turner underwent some kind of transformation that caused me to be a little concerned about her health.  I don't follow celebrity lives, but I have wondered if she had some kind of drug problem at that time.


I believe Ms. Turner suffers from rheumatoid arthritis, and often the medications for it will blow people up. Plus, if a friend of mine is any example, sometimes a patient has to try out a couple different protocols for treatment to find one that handles the disease effectively; and that experimentation period can be really difficult, with many side effects of various hazard levels.

On a totally unrelated note, they shot some scenes for the second Traveling Pants movie just down the street yesterday.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 02:47:30 PM
For those who believe that Billy Wilder could do no wrong, but that also William Holden was spectacular, face it--one of the two damaged that piece of dialogue with Humphrey Bogart which is an unforgivable sin. It was not I who brought this complaint to the forum in the first-place so I will not take the rap and be made the fall guy in nine forums out of ten.

See, things could be worse. How about, that Sabrina Fair played only nine months on Broadway and this is what it looked like before someone had the common sense to bring it up to speed.

Joseph Cotton - Linus Larrabee, Jr.   
Margaret Sullavan - Sabrina Fairchild   
Russell Collins - Fairchild   
John Cromwell - Linus Larrabee   (and yes, he was the father
                                                of  James Cromwell)                       C
Robert Duke  Paul D'Argenson   
Luella Gear  Julia Ward McKinlock   
Lorraine Grover  Another Young Woman   
Scott McKay  David Larrabee   
Gordon Mills  A Young Man   
Cathleen Nesbitt  Maude Larrabee
 
 Opening Night Production Credits

Theatre Owned / Operated by The Shubert Organization

Produced by The Playwrights' Company (Maxwell Anderson; Robert Anderson; Elmer Rice; Robert E. Sherwood; Roger L. Stevens; John F. Wharton)
 
And whiskey, I hate to disappoint you but I only bothered to look at Sunset Blvd. to find out what Joe Kennedy's famous mistress looked like and that monster Erich von Stroheim
 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 02:49:31 PM
Yeah, a favorite Wilder would be something like Some Like It Hot.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 02:52:38 PM
Also the best performance of Audrey Hepburn was Home Before Dark

In which, she lives in a darling little Greenwich Village basement apartment, opposite a  young Alan Arkin(which is hard to imagine now).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 07, 2007, 02:55:18 PM
I think that was Wait Until Dark, with an absolutely evil Alan Arkin.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 02:58:53 PM
True, what did you think of her acting in straight drama and not as the ingenue comedienne?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 03:07:29 PM
Dzima re:#982

How could you go wrong with Paddy Chayefsky script, right from television, and Sidney Lumet!

My favourite actor in here you may not guess but won many awards --
Beatrice Straight as Schumacher's(William Holden) wife.

As far as Aunty Kate, I am fondest of her doing Eleanor of Aquitaine opposite Peter O'Toole.  As I mentioned to another poster at one time, more privately she was also "Aunty" for Christopher Reeve who later, much later, was sorry he had not been as appreciative as the young should be since she gave him his first real break by asking for him to play opposite her for his debut on Broadway. He was an unusual high power actor internationally and probably related to Eleanor of Aquitaine?

He was too full of energy to understand what she was trying to convey.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 03:12:30 PM
re:#988

harrie, are you living in one of those great shooting locations where you can't walk to the grocery store without having to take a detour?  I'm thinking about doing that again.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 07, 2007, 03:13:03 PM
madupont,

Well, I like Audrey Hepburn period, so I've never thought about which way I prefer her. She did have the ingenue-role down cold, but I thought she did just as well in Wait Until Dark.  I might even have preferred her in dramatic roles, because sometimes the amount of whimsy that goes along with the ingenue roles kind of wears on me.  

This is strictly my opinion, I don't pretend to know anything particularly insightful about Ms. Hepburn or the movies.  This thought also applies to my opinions expressed about that one line in Sabrina, Billy Wilder (whom I love) and William Holden (whom I love even more).  Just in case anyone's interested, Holden's game preserve in Kenya is for sale.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 07, 2007, 03:18:24 PM
re:#988

harrie, are you living in one of those great shooting locations where you can't walk to the grocery store without having to take a detour?  I'm thinking about doing that again.

No, I just drove by the hospital on the way to work, and there were a ton of semis and cones and stuff.  No detours.  The hospital's been used in another movie or two, so maybe they have the whole routine figured out.

Indiana Jones IV just finished shooting in New Haven; and while initially everyone was thrilled to see them coming, they were even more thrilled to see them go. Nobody seemed to realize that it would cause an inconvenience -- some key streets were closed intermittently or for 12 hours at a time, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 03:21:30 PM
that last remark brings me to the bottom line: "resuming the limitations of American culture after living abroad, and the flexibility of moral values among the wealthy." used to convey the character of Sabrina and the overall criteria for the play.

I know. That's why I asked you about Wait Until Dark. I agree. It was just the way things were at that time; they expected you to be cute and funny. Actually, I think she played Undine in the theatre, the mermaid who falls in love with a human, before all the rest of this but there's no turning back.
 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 03:22:35 PM
Still Harrison? Now, there's an elite family.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 08, 2007, 12:40:37 PM
I thought that I might as well hit 1000 as leave it lay there.  Comparisons of two movies could be made, one uplifting, one not, about man's inhumanity to man. (Any thoughts on the subject?)

Apocolypto was amazing at conveying our possible strength and commendable sense in having the will toward survival.  The contrasting film:The Last King of Scotland, obviously shows us the other side right from the start. Our naivety and gullibility when we deny we have a sense of privilege.

In the latter, the most interesting discovery was to learn after viewing that the screenplay was done by Peter Morgan(same writer who brought us The Queen) and I began to read the article that I'd folded aside [as teddy had said,"happens"] which tells us what he looks for in writing a screenplay). He prefers a situation when he is able to contrast the differences between two outlooks or personalities

In characterization that is simply one of the dramatic laws put in a more modern way.  Originally it was referred to as you have to have an antagonist for there to be a drama. In other words, without an agon, you would have no story.

I think it was whiskeypriest who pointed that out, beneath Kate Hepburn and male lead, this was the case. And they finally hit b.o. when Spencer Tracy arrived on that scene.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 08, 2007, 01:42:27 PM
Saw The Good German and really liked it, cloroxed film stock and all. Looked great and the 40s score sounded great and the acting was stellar -- I never would have pictured Toby Maguire, for example, as a foulmouthed woman-beating ass-kicking scoundrel, but he managed to take all his usual sweetness and light and hide it deep for this role. When you've seen Toby's dark side, you've seen something.

As a longtime fan of The Third Man, this is a skillful hommage that I won't soon be able to forget.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 08, 2007, 02:33:36 PM
As a longtime fan of The Third Man, this is a skillful hommage that I won't soon be able to forget.

 

You are probably unaware of this, but The Third Man is my favorite movie, ever.  So you think I would enjoy The Good German?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 08, 2007, 02:51:26 PM
barton,

Saw it last week or so, and i really didn't emphasize much about Toby's role as a convincing G.I. --because I guess that i was already aware of that element which was quite wide-spread at the time, I don't suppose however that I would have even heard about it except that I had "foreign friends" in the  theatre who had been living through these things, one who had married an American and arrived as a war-bride so I also got her husband's point of view.

But I have to take exception at Homage to Orson Welles particular late in the day contribution to mood in the hollows of Austria, although we all loved zither music and it started a trend in a few decades with the flower-child, new Hippie in the coffee houses of the Sixties among performing musicians when we weren't reading poetry. That particular Orson Welles is shattered by Woody Allen with a little help from, I think it was Carol Kane and others, by doing a send up rendition.

As I look back, it occurs to me that Cate Blanchett was less Marlena Dietrich after all, at least not in purist terms, but half way between, since Dietrich had the use of a man with the favourable knowledge of lighting there was. So there is a rather contained performance by Cate of those qualities that made up the real eine Berliner, Lotte Lenya who coud grimace at you in a superior taunt and laugh in your face. That was the war as we knew it.  

That's why I concentrated on the American journalist who has supposedly embedded himself into back then, a strange premise but nevertheless George Clooney who did it like the late 1940s on the cusp of the bad 1950s gray flannel suited American male actually was. Kind of lovable.

The only Orson Welles directorial  honor belongs into digging up those accurate character actors that Orson always loved so well*, and although they are visiting American personnel and a Congressman, whose best scene is played visiting Cate in the hospital with hope or confidence of arranging a little future hanky-panky, they are treated as Orson had. Even Beau Bridges is, like the rest of them ,given a German-American name!  So that we can contrast them to the real Germans now in a Soviet framework.  I thought the historic shots as well as the current shooting of the Soviet army personnel was right on target or as good as Eisenstein gets!  But I hinted at most of this in posts back a bit into last week's heap of incoming over the transom reviews submitted.  I was only miffed when they could not transfer my beautiful picture of George at the bar in the rathskeller asking me what I'll have?   This guy is so much better than any of the male leads of that era (and this) that I can't believe he exists since he expresses more than average intelligence and then goes and applies it in the real world. What an artist.  I just wanted him to know that I will be there when Von Trier's re-opens.

that asterisk up there is to indicate that some of the best actors still around that made early television "deep immersion theatre", started out in Orson Welles films as character actors or types.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 08, 2007, 03:09:38 PM
Mad, I'm going to plead hot weather fatigue and just admit that I'm not sure what you are talking about re TGG.  You have some interesting insights there, but I'm uncertain what your point is.

Whisky --

"You are probably unaware of this, but The Third Man is my favorite movie, ever.  So you think I would enjoy The Good German?"

Heh, heh. 

Soderbergh really went all out making this a 40s movie -- he converted the aspect ratio by blanking out the sides of the screen, only used fixed-lens shots (no modern zooms) consistent with the period, etc.  The visual artistry is stunning.  And it is so rife with Third Man references, in terms both of plot and specific shots, that you will probably undergo sensory overload the first viewing and have to see it twice to really follow. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 08, 2007, 05:59:44 PM
BTW, I checked and "Rescue Dawn" (in which the aforementioned Bale emaciates himself as a POW) is opening in a couple weeks in the U.S.  I must also note that this character, a German-American pilot shot down in Laos, is named "Dieter."  This orthographic accident would almost be funny if it didn't remind me of what Bale is doing to himself.

Werner Herzog (director of Rescue Dawn) and Steve Zahn (supporting role in RD) were on one of those AMC movie shows today; the way Herzog ran the set, Bale might not have had to work too hard on the weight loss program.  Zahn was saying that he was used to having a trailer, a chair on set, craft services -- none of which were on this film.  He wasn't complaining, just saying that it was very different from other sets on which he's worked.

But Zahn pointed out that it might be particularly difficult for an actor to come out of his air-conditioned trailer, grab a handful of M&M's and walk out to hear a director saying "You've been in the jungle for weeks and you're starving...."  The spartan atmosphere on the set helped to maintain the correct frame of mind, even though Herzog says he's not a Method director, he doesn't believe in that stuff, etc.  So I guess he's just cheap.

For the record, I like Steve Zahn a lot.  Not in a dreamy pinup way, but he really works a role -- I never think he's just clocking the time to get this flick over and get his check.  In even some of the really bad movies he's made (I'm thinking of Happy, Texas though I actually enjoyed its goofiness), he's credible.  Just my opinion, of course.  Maybe I should reserve that opinion 'til I see Daddy Day Care.  Hmmmm.

Anyway, Rescue Dawn looks like it may be a pretty cool flick.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 08, 2007, 06:01:45 PM
Oh, and for the record, my favorite Billy Wilder pics are Stalag 17 and Sunset Boulevard.   The Apartment is up there too, though.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: weezo on July 08, 2007, 09:01:19 PM
Just watched "Coming to America" with Eddie Murphy, and tears came to my mind at the end when he pulls up the veil and finds his beloved at the altar with him. It is such a wonderful movie! I've seen it many time, and never enough times. What a talented actor! I like him more in this one than any of the Nutty Professor's movies. This is a true, heartwarming romance like few others.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 08, 2007, 10:32:09 PM
barton, well I'm so glad you liked it despite not seeing my point. I didn't like it that much but I thought I would emphasize the good points that are there in terms of movie-making; things that  are ingenious devices.

I really don't think that The Good German and The Third Man are on the same wave length.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 09, 2007, 02:02:45 AM
This will be what I call,The King of Scotland, post 2. from me.

Terror in Glasgow? Scots Are Perplexed  http://tinyurl.com/33dj7d

That is as good a title as any for a review of the film that I saw on Saturday night.  Which begins as a comedy of errors, when a rather thankless clod who doesn't know what to do with himself goes off to Africa for the adventure of it all, randomly chosen of course.

It is such a classic moral story. What happens when extreme naivety meets craziness and doesn't recognize that it is but falls right into line by getting a swelled head about being a special friend  to a despot who seems to be probably just an exhuberent too hyper fellow at first  so that Dr. Naivete  doesn't heed warnings from those he never liked anyway, and pretty soon doesn't even notice the signs nor the signals of a natural catastrophe likely to head his way if he doesn't wise up and if he were not so blind.

For of course he has come to Uganda, to practice his profession, like all those who came before him, and does it without knowing a thing about the people among whom he will be living.

I don't want to give away anything further, so I'll change the subject and say that I didn't recognize Gillian Anderson in the least. Perfect disguise as a typical British colonial sticking around after the Independence; or was she really  someone who came back to the situation  because of the desperation on every hand in the shadow of a great wealth of luxury?

Also in hindsight, the explanations for factors are written right into the screen play and are tossed at you to see if you catch on. When after you know that a t-shirt from Scotland is going to a little boy named Campbell, and then you suddenly find yourself in a frantic scene where you discover the child is an epileptic, when you've stabilized the patient would you not consider a more thorough inquiry determining the  patient's medical history, that is --to determine from which side of the family the tendency for the epilepsy was acquired? That is, if you were the doctor. This particular doctor does not. If  he had, he might have begun to discern what was wrong with the particular eccentric ruler who is his patron and is the child's father.

At least, the director Peter Morgan realizes he can use that as a tie-in, even if he invents it out of whole-cloth, to support  the dramatic situation he goes on to create.  Morgan is very good at this dramatic creativity. Which means that we should not overlook that this is the most startling performance we have yet seen out of Forest Whitaker.   I mean, Bird, directed by Clint Eastwood, gave us a scary musician. Likewise his role as a terrorist opposite Steven Rea. Heavy dude.  This is also true of his walking Zen Assassin from the hood. Which I can not entirely separate in my mind, although I am at the same time positive it was a separate performance as a terribly menacing, matter of fact, killer for hire. Just when you think you've seen everything, he comes back again with blacking applied to his complexion and a bad case of acne and heat rash and presents us with this bigger than life embodiment of the definitive dictator whose civility and sanity is so basically self-understood  by  an environment of exposure to it his entire life that he can in an instant turn it on and turn it off in perfect imitation of his British precursors. Buga-buga-boo. You have met The Boogey Man
(and I bet you didn't even know that history made him inevitable from all  we contributed to history to make that possible).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 09, 2007, 10:16:12 AM
Madupont:

"I really don't think that The Good German and The Third Man are on the same wave length. "

My original post on TGG was very sketchy, just a few observations.  For example, my not mentioning all the find ensemble of actors doesn't mean I wasn't impressed by their performances.  I only mentioned Maguire because it was interesting to see him play against his usual type, not because I thought he was central.  And my comparing it to TTM was mainly in terms of particular shots, i.e. visual composition.  Although essential similarities of plot and theme also emerge.  Both involve a detective story, a search for a shadowy figure who only appears toward the end; both involve corruption in post-WWII Berlin; both involve murders covering the tracks of an atrocity, etc.

Be interesting if Whisky sees TGG, and we can all chat about this some more.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 09, 2007, 11:13:48 AM
Mad

I looked up a few WFB Jr clippings specifically because we were talking about "affected" New England accents and I think it's fair to say that most folks are not WFB Jr Fans.  I used to enjoy the Gore Vidal-- William F. Buckley debates back in the day -- ditto the notion that it turned me on to a new way of thinking...

I won't go so far as to say that I despise him.  I  can always learn something by listening to the argument of an carefully articulated person -- regardless of whether I agree with the underlying argument or not.  But I've noticed (like so many others on both sides of the political spectrum) that he can be a bully sometimes...

I thought that post on the war was interesting and shows that he's not "tied" to a party line or anything...even though I don't expect him to be changing his stripes any time soon...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 09, 2007, 11:14:29 AM
Just watched "Coming to America" with Eddie Murphy, and tears came to my mind at the end when he pulls up the veil and finds his beloved at the altar with him. It is such a wonderful movie! I've seen it many time, and never enough times. What a talented actor! I like him more in this one than any of the Nutty Professor's movies. This is a true, heartwarming romance like few others.



:)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 09, 2007, 01:03:25 PM
barton,re:#1010

Believe me, I'm not being critical of Toby Maquire.
"Although essential similarities of plot and theme also emerge.  Both involve a detective story, a search for a shadowy figure who only appears toward the end; both involve corruption in post-WWII Berlin; both involve murders covering the tracks of an atrocity, etc."/ quote, barton

"...deliciously eccentric messages being sent out by Woody Allen in his rich, not easily categorized new black-and-white comedy, "Shadows and Fog." ...
Kleinman (Mr. Allen) is a timid clerk in the kind of unidentified Middle European city once so beloved by Kafka, Kafka's imitators, the masters of the German Expressionist cinema of the 1920's and their imitators. It is always night in this closed world of miasmic fog, cobbled alleys and street lamps that shed too little light but cast photogenically deep shadows.

Authority here is absolute and inscrutable. It may be represented by the police,...a pastiche of references to the works of others, but it's a brazen, irrepressible original in the way it uses those references. How many times did you laugh while watching Steven Soderbergh's polite and doomy... [The Good German, for instance?madupont, actually I laughed a lot.]

Mr. Allen sends up his sources to rediscover and celebrate them. Carlo Di Palma's black-and-white cinematography recalls the glories of a technology all but forgotten today... /end of Vincent Canby.

"had already been released abroad: "Shadows and Fog" opened in Paris on Feb. 12 and was seen soon thereafter at the Berlin Film Festival and in commercial runs throughout Europe.

This gift to Europe, as the Europeans like to see it, has provoked a renewed flurry of articles and adulation -- the two are usually inseparable here -- attesting to Mr. Allen's supposedly European sensibility. This makes special sense with this new film. "Shadows and Fog" is in black and white and overtly indebted to such German Expressionist film makers as Fritz Lang, G. W. Pabst and F. W. Murnau...

"Shadows and Fog," the critic of Le Monde concluded, "possesses all the fantasy and seriousness, mysterious construction and burlesque complications of a Shakespeare comedy." ... In Europe, his seriousness is taken at full, hyper-serious value. He is admired for his refusal to become part of the commercial Hollywood film apparatus, for the ensemble he has created (on both sides of the camera), ...and for the very cinematic references that strike some Americans as derivative. ..."The ideas and themes I'm most personally responsive to are European, as opposed to the frontier mentality of directors like Ford and Peckinpah. Perhaps it subliminally gets into your system. Sometimes it's more obvious, sometimes it's less. I know it's a weak theory; I'm just speculating."

In other words, Mr. Allen appeals to sophisticates on both sides of the Atlantic. His European success may simply mean that Europe boasts more sophisticated film lovers, especially per capita, than America.

The French are not utterly uncritical of Mr. Allen's films. L'Express, a weekly magazine, conceded that "Shadows and Fog" was "no masterpiece" on the order of "Annie Hall" and "Manhattan," but airily added: "So what?" .../end of JOHN ROCKWELL
Published: April 5, 1992, Sunday  The New York Times





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 09, 2007, 09:57:48 PM
Used to be on almost any given weekend, you could cruise through a relatively small radius of downtown L.A. and find a working production crew.

The reason you could find them on the weekends, is that downtown L.A. was (and for the most part still is) a complete ghost town on the weekends.  This makes it very easy for a crew to dress up a couple of blocks and make it appear to be downtown NY or Chicago, or where ever...

Downtown is starting to go through a bit of a renaissance - with lots of "housing" projects on the boards.  Once a large number of residents are there permanently and the accompanying restaurants etc are open full time, it will be much harder for crews to use this area of town...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 10, 2007, 07:49:57 AM
Barton, thanks for the head's up on The Good German.  I see it is out on DVD.  I received the Criterion edition of The Tin Drum not so long ago.  Great novel, and I thought Volker Schlöndorff did a pretty good job transposing the story onto the screen. 


Title: Crimes and Misdemeanors
Post by: Dzimas on July 10, 2007, 07:56:14 AM
I kind of gave up on Woody Allen after the sordid break-up with Mia Farrow.  He hasn't done anything that has really captured my interest since then.  But, I enjoyed watching Crimes and Misdemeanors again the other night.  Pretty complex film, weaving in so much of Jewish religious thought into the narrative.  Kind of like a Guide to the Perplexed. Couldn't help but think that Allen was drawing a parallel between his fictional Levy and Primo Levi.  The usual digs against television, this time in the persona played by Alan Alda.  Some really biting and funny scenes in this regard.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 10, 2007, 09:28:51 AM
Mad, thanks for reminding me of Shadows & Fog.  It's been some years since I've seen it, but recall liking it and your quotes seem spot on regarding its visual style.  I should rent it again.  A lot of recent Allen, of which I've seen little, struck me as self-indulgent and not that good, but I think he got this one right.

Still haven't seen Scoop, which went through the theaters here too fast and I missed it, a couple years back.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: desdemona222b on July 10, 2007, 09:55:33 AM
I watched The Good German this weekend until I just couldn't stomach it anymore.  Sorry to disagree with you guys, but I just hated it - especially Cate Blanchett, whose characterization of the wife of a notorius Nazi turned streetwalker was just AWFUL  I thought her acting was so stereotyped - and I am a huge fan of hers.  In fact, this is the first movie I've seen her where I just hated her acting.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 10, 2007, 10:04:36 AM
Well, I saw her Marlene Dietrich thing as kind of deliberate, and I could see how it would come across as too stylized --- i.e. she's not acting, she's acting as a 1940's actress WOULD act in a role.  This may be part of the major flaw in the film, which seems to be that you can't tell where Soderbergh is putting some kind of gentle ironic distance between his recreation of a 40s film and a real 40s film, and where he's just telling a story.  When you mix the period style with a  more modern perspective, something's going to clank, and maybe Blanchett is one of those clanks.  I just skimmed over it, the first time, as the plot and visual style were enough to draw me along -- but when I think back on it, it does seem like she struck a false note or two. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 11:01:35 AM
Couldn't agree with the two of you more.  I just didn't want to say anything too negative about Ms. Blanchett up front (other than hinting this was all too reminiscient of: Amy and Jaguar , but without the Lesbian good humor seeing them through the worst of times) since she was in the hands of a director who was insistent that he saw things in a new way and was going to come up with the new thing (but, even if it killed her?). By the time that he did his Casablanca finale, I was unable to see why the movie had been so tauted as such a meaningful breakthrough great film --since sliced bread.   Come to think of it that is about the period of time when they began to slice and package bread (other than rye)--at the same time the Michael Curtiz film was made. 

But having Cate Blanchett do double duty as a Dietrich type and an Ingrid Bergman reject for understudy took the  intrigue out of it all. Speaking of which did you sense that the intrigue was useless as it often became in an Orson Welles affectation of keeping you going around in circles for naught?  I was reminded very much of sitting around politely and  patiently in a film-study course for would be soundmen and lady editors of a nebulous future.  It's really better to just go to lunch at Montecito and try to recall Charlie Chaplin films best remembered (which by the way, I thought about that the other day when someone mentioned well there were at least no car-chases in the old films!) but you can always go on to knoodling about Robert Downey,jr. and how well he did Chaplin before everybody springs for their credit card.
               


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 11:14:12 AM
trojanhorse, re:#1011

I think it was my lines about the war based on politics and not Buckley's. Bill was quite satisfied with himself to chide The Sopranos.  As this was nothing new, considering his class origins never had been big about having Italians in America, until the 1940s acquainted WASPS with the Saturday afternoon radio Opera broadcasts, and it was much later they learned about the cuisine of Northern Italy as a respectable menu for which you should pay a high price by dining in an urban atmosphere, I decided to give him a blowback moment of my own philosophy about killing people purposefully but randomly.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 10, 2007, 12:45:37 PM
Anyone seen a DVD of Harrison Bergeron?  I'd like to see the 1995 tv film that was adapted from Vonnegut's 1961 short story (was recently browsing through his early collection, Welcome to the Monkey House, after his recent death, and remembered what quintessential Vonnegut the story was...).  I think there is a VHS out there, but Netflix doesn't list the title at all, so I'm wondering if it ever made it to DVD.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 10, 2007, 01:07:45 PM
Apparently only VHS. 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6303801919/imdb-button/ (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6303801919/imdb-button/)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 02:13:14 PM
Oh, c'mon, I remember highschool being leveled when the 1940s slipped into the 1950s. Which also meant that everything outside your own front door and backyard was not what you could suppose inducive to that but had been the culmination of what I recently called Buckley-criteria; or television-limited in our era. Maybe it's the same thing?

Then while the Vietnam war was secretly taking place to work up to the real fiasco, I decided  that I wanted to take some particular classes that would collide into the Orwell period or the War to End All Wars. To my astonishment, the younger generation sat on their hands with blank looks on their faces, while the instructor asked questions that were never answered. No one wanted to make waves and be held responsible. But I have to suppose that's why Vonnegut had to write this. I also reflect that to get it accepted by a publisher in our country, so that it would actually sell, he would have necessarily had to declare this was the result of leftist socialist prerogatives.  Otherwise, no sale, no moola.

Talk about brain washing....  Didn't George W. get his washed in this way? Which is why I had to hand it to the particular reviewer who says he always pictured the heir of the family Bush heritage in the authoritarian role.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 02:16:41 PM
Ps. the reviews of those who posted reviews, in the majority indicated that dumbing down the level really had worked out best for you after all, as Babs said.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 10, 2007, 09:47:03 PM
I just realized this should be in "celebreality," but if y'all are in the supermarket, check out the gut on Val Kilmer on the cover of "National Enquirer," he's gone a long way from being that cutie patootie in "Top Gun," I wondered where he went and I guess now I know.  It's easy for guys to lose weight though [lights Virginia Slim Ultra Menthol Light]"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 10, 2007, 10:35:38 PM
I just realized this should be in "celebreality," but if y'all are in the supermarket, check out the gut on Val Kilmer on the cover of "National Enquirer," he's gone a long way from being that cutie patootie in "Top Gun," I wondered where he went and I guess now I know.  It's easy for guys to lose weight though [lights Virginia Slim Ultra Menthol Light]"

One of the gossip columns referred to him as large and orange (and having his usual 'tude).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 10, 2007, 10:48:01 PM
I'm sorry, it was "bloated," not "large." 

From July 5's Page Six... . . VAL Kilmer "looking very orange and bloated" while
eating sushi and drinking sake with a blonde with star tattoos at Nobu in Malibu . . .


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 10, 2007, 11:06:46 PM
And to these bozos who 1) make the news by riding around in balloon-powered lawn chairs and 2) act like they thought it up all by themselves, I have three words:  2003's Danny Deckchair.  And it's not like it was a totally original idea then, either.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 10, 2007, 11:25:22 PM
I used to repulse an insignificant bother with the idea that between roles Richard Gere was known to let himself go and roll around on the beach in the south of France and Malibu drinking bottles of wine and having sex with 19-yr. olds, the phrase "the easy sexuality of a Richard Gere" always made her cringe for some reason...

...for me, I love the idea of any star, particularly James Spader off the success of timeloop or whatever to hit the weights and the treadmill for "Supernova," ultimately an 88 min. bomb but not before he kicks a robots @ss and has sex with Angela Bassett in zero- [and also limited leverage and friction-] gravity, but the two just floating there was enough for me and damn the logistics...

...now that I'm on space I recall that I recently made my brother watch "Red Planet," the most openly horrible RoT ripoff imaginable, almost, but I kind of enjoyed the whimsy of the script, "I don't know how we can breate out here [so that the audience can see your money-makers], but we're able to..."

I always like to think that Kilmer ad-libbed the "Fuck this Planet" or at least the part where he shoots the planet the bird before taking off...I don't know that the Carpenter version is more entertaining and only that the DePalma Mars movie of the same year is ultimately the more memorable and formally interesting and funny in a more sophisticated way, I guess, but I like the slapdash awfulness of RP, and the intelligence of Kilmer [who in my mind negotiates like "tell them I need 4.5," and his agent going, "Val, I told you they are stuck on three...they called Frank Whalley..." *pause* "...well tell them I want 3 and script approval or just 3 and a personal trainer..."] to recognize shit and act just well-enough so that his winking doesn't get him canned.

There's a perfect sort of closing line opportunity in the vein of what took you so long, traffic was a bitch, at his reunion with the captain/love interest, but they went with something ordinary and not funny, and military drums, have to get back to you on the right Kilmer response later," but I digressed.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 11, 2007, 11:39:59 AM
Jbot, I vaguely remember that the year 2000 coughed up a rule o' twos of Mars movies.  I think I saw Mission to Mars, the one with Gary Sinise and Tim Robbins, and Don Cheadle as a demented survivor of the first mission.  Alien ruins found, the Face on Mars is demystified, and the science isn't overly absurd, so I found it a fairly good Mars movie, as those things go.  The other one doesn't ring a bell, so I must have missed that one.  Sounds like Kilmer is emulating Mars these days, orange and rounded and being studied by distant cameras.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 12:16:44 PM
Good end line, barton!  Tell me, are we the occupants of that strange hotel where you holed up to write movie screenplays until the whole thing went down in flames?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 01:23:11 PM
I considered it 3's, really, I mean, why all the sudden interest in Mars?

I guess if "Why all the sudden interest in Steve Prefontaine"? makes sense then a planet makes a little more sense.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0228333/

Why the two Capote bios around the same time?

I mean, at least "End of Days" and "Stigmata" both had a sort of pre-millennial malaise going for them along with Gabriel Byrne.

As to playing "Prefontaine," Leto and Crudup are also linked via the "drug novel" movies of '99/'00:  "Jesus' Son" and "Requium for a Dream..."

Gere is the most bankable RoT slut in movies as varied and awful as "The Mothman Prophecies" ("Dragonfly") and "Autumn in New York" ("Sweet November"), which brings us to (the very cute) Winona Ryder ("Autumn," "Lost Souls" ("Bless the Child")), as easy on the script as she is on the eyes.

They get Ben Chaplin, you get Rufus Sewell, you know the routine...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 11, 2007, 02:25:38 PM
Jbot, I vaguely remember that the year 2000 coughed up a rule o' twos of Mars movies.  I think I saw Mission to Mars, the one with Gary Sinise and Tim Robbins, and Don Cheadle as a demented survivor of the first mission.  Alien ruins found, the Face on Mars is demystified, and the science isn't overly absurd, so I found it a fairly good Mars movie, as those things go.  The other one doesn't ring a bell, so I must have missed that one.  Sounds like Kilmer is emulating Mars these days, orange and rounded and being studied by distant cameras.



I guess Mars Attacks!  cam out a bit earlier than these???   Still my favorite Mars movie though...  Recommend watching While eating a MARS bar.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 02:52:46 PM
Jbottle,

why the twinsies or twosies in the industry. Because the guys in the office now,"producer's Producers" like competing for ownership of young directors against old directors,etc. and think what it does for their gainsay with young ladies across the field, if you think Winona  is "the very cute...easy on the eyes" of the tribe.

When she was in ownership of Johnny Depp(or, so she thought) she hung around the set every day,hanging off him, while the Schockmeister of --well,you name it, I sometimes refer to it as corn-porn was filming, Cry Baby with a young blonde who was later slated for Prefontaine although I didn't watch enough of it to perceive where she was and when on camera. Depp than merely took up with Kate Moss. Simple.

Directors however have to compete in order to be produced, and they are given assignments to see whether they are up to passing their test. One of these kept powdering the nose of the young lady nameless above. So you see how it goes.  Nevertheless, these guys in the office sit around the big table for a conference after leaving the big desks in their private parlors and, what they do is, discuss options on themes that have been pitched to them. It is a little like going to  a Chinese restaurant and choosing "I' ll take two from column A, and two from column B, maybe a couple of side-dishes of C.". Then after the thematics are boiled down, they can decide which director-fodder  gets what to prove himself; the answer to why so many great directors took to production like a piece of cake, rather than put up with this crap. They produce what they want to direct at their point in life, they have enough experience with actors with whom they have worked, but they have to watch a lot of crap films on the advice of friends in the trade.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 02:55:22 PM
Ps. put an L in there for Schlock, because he did rise from mere schock by a very young age.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 04:20:26 PM
Who, Waters, he's totally insignificant?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 06:10:04 PM
"Why the two Capote bios around the same time?

I mean, at least "End of Days" and "Stigmata" both had a sort of pre-millennial malaise going for them along with Gabriel Byrne.

As to playing "Prefontaine," Leto and Crudup are also linked via the "drug novel" movies of '99/'00:  "Jesus' Son" and "Requium for a Dream..."

             jbottle   re:#whatever...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 11, 2007, 06:17:29 PM
The blonde girl in CryBaby was Amy Locane -- and CryBaby rocks!

John Waters is an amazing filmmaker.  I think he gets poo-pooed (no pun intended, for Pink Flamingos and to a lesser degree Polyester* afficionados) by the Hollywood establishment because he turns out great, often gritty product on a shoestring -- and sometimes it's no worse than some of the mega-budget fiascos that come from the big studios.    

Waters uses regular- and interesting-looking people and low-brow, anti-sestablishment plot lines; in other words, real people doing real things.  Every town has its ugly people, its freaks, its eccentrics -- so why aren't they in other people's movies at all, never mind being celebrated for their individuality?   True, the world has beautiful people in it as well; but it's not completely populated by them, as big-budget movie directors and casting directors seem to think it is.  Some people wear their beauty on the inside, and Waters is willing to use that, which I think is great.


As for the rule of 2's, I find the movie executive screaming at his assistant(s) "We need a Mars movie.  Get me a frickin' Mars movie now!!"  completely plausible. 

Also, The Philadelphia Story, subject of recent discussion here, is on TCM tonight at 10pm (my time, anyway), followed by Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill!.   What a segue.






Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 11, 2007, 06:39:29 PM
I thought it was Tracy Lords...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 11, 2007, 06:42:19 PM
Traci Lords was in CryBaby as one of CryBaby's friends; but for some reason, I thought madupont was referring to the female lead (the girl from the right side of the tracks, Polly Bergen's niece).  In which case, it would be Amy Locane. The only other credit of hers I know is a season or two of Melrose Place


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 09:43:27 PM
harrie, 

The term to describe John Waters as "Schlockmeister "(from Baltimore,Maryland; or, some such because I do not recall the entire title) was given to him by The New York Times Magazine, for Sundays, back in,gads I can't recall how far back as I'm old enough to remember when Polly Bergen was a star and we all went out and bought her moisturizer!

I find it amazing to realize exactly what Johnny Depp looked like in that film, which is what boys looked like when I was in high school, and to acknowledge how much he has grown as an actor of some sensitive intelligence for a kid from Kentucky.  Amy did a film with Dennis Hopper (and Julie Harris playing his mother!) about a rural schoolteacher in a fairly desolate part of the country(Ms.Harris made it sound like Minnesota?) who was disfigured by a farm accident when he was a boy and who is now undone by a citified teenage temptress who sizes him up pretty quickly because there is nothing much else to do (as Betty Davis would have said)"in a dump like this". Gary Busey plays her father (badly)but then he is the poor man's Nick Nolte.

One night, I turned this on thinking here's a Hopper that I missed. And then began to realize, I think that I saw this before? What I'd seen were  pre-release advertising trailers. And then, Ms.Locane makes her entrance in an outfit that I recognized. From then on, you could have blown me away, because she proceeded to do things for the first time on film, that I'd heard much "stage-mother"avowals would never happen, despite my explanations as cooly as possible of how these scenes are shot, how you prepare, what mind set you have to develop for what bothers you about revealing yourself because it is the same old thing over and over again from the very first performance of your career whether on stage or camera, self-consciousness when you are not up there to be yourself but to act.

The next thing that I know she is riding around in the barn doing a Lady Godiva which has me cracking up because it was Tommy Lee Jones who taught her to ride,"little girl, because you are going to have to know how to ride, one of these movies that comes along".

Last caught sight of her as a film scenario friend of Ms. Gyllanhaal(if I'm spelling that correctly?)in what may or may not have been:Secretary

Actually she began her film work with director Hugh Hudson, because Donald Sutherland picked her for the part of his daughter.  One of the greatest educational experiences she could have was again having to play a child-actress role in the shadow of a scenery-chewing Diva outdoing herself opposite Tommy Lee Jones in Blue Sky(or,is it Blue Skies?) as Jessica Lange's daughter when Jessica pulled out all the stops(which of course made it possible for Jessica Lange to go to Broadway for a stint of, Streetcar Named Desire, as a revival;then do a little film of Tennessee Williams', The Glass Menagerie, which put everything in context for me at least. Lange has been an actress who was just meant to play Southern women despite having been born and raised in Minnesota).

One of the most interesting experiences was possibly being a girl in an  almost all boy movie, as I remember it, where Brendan Fraser took her under his wing for the duration of -- School Ties.

In between were strange episodes , including one of those Mummy films that I think Fraser was doing. I still think the best opportunity one can have is to take time out of the bi-coastal rat race of limousines to airports and do something on stage in New York like our neighbour Ethan Hawke(although I don't know what he personally felt as to the gains). We all get stage fright. Or, am I thinking of that boy named Leonard something or other, is that his first name? I can't remember. Maybe his last name.... Oh,right, Sean Leonard. I always get them mixed up. They once tried to do  scenes together opposite each other and it was uncannily tedious.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 09:48:01 PM
Amy Locane was hot:  She was the female lead in that terrible grunge one with Buscemi, and others about the radio station or whatever, that one was like playing archery with pasta noodles.

Really funny was the semi-indie art-ish one where Dennis Hopper plays the guy who should marry longtime sweetheart Amy Irving but opts to scru Amy Locane, unfortunately the daughter of Gary Busey, etc., that was her "art movie."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115837/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109068/

John Waters, to his credit, has been able to make 16 films total in 40 yrs., not bad at all, I just haven't connected to a single one of them, I'm guessing that maybe he has a female side that women get:  I found "Hairspray" and "Crybaby" both really boring.  Of course, I'm the guy who's seen "The Party Animal" into double-digits, even while guys I show it to are like "this sucks!!!," and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, just wait...and it never fails...

I don't hate musicals but Baltimore I can do without.

I never have connected with


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 09:51:17 PM
"...how much he has grown as an actor of some sensitive intelligence for a kid from Kentucky..."

Not everybody can be William Hurt, what magic.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 09:54:42 PM
  I tend to understate, when I use code words to describe Depp is a universal genius.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 11, 2007, 09:58:20 PM
As you know, you can keep Bill Hurt who hasn't done a single thing worth an audience after his debut with Kevin Kline and Glenn Close et al.

Now, if you'd said John Hurt that would have been different!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 10:07:31 PM
No, you just said, huh, hick actor, what gives, it's an old thing that gives wonder.....no problem.....just think what would've happened if he had gone to the Yale Shool of Drama, etc.

Not bad for a hick who didn't chase money the way Yale's most famous alum, Robin Williams, has...he made a movie about shit coming out of an RV.....and HUH, that guy went to Yale School of Drama, welp, it just goes to learn ya...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 10:14:47 PM
I'll also point out that Ashley Judd came from Kentucky and turned out to be the only one capable of making the "Ashley Judd Movie," rip...

I actually like William Hurt, but he seems like such an ac-tor, that it kind of bugs me that he's tortured on a trust fund type whether it's true or not...

They are talking about doing a re-make of "The Big Chill," if Jobeth Williams is still alive it's an easy go project for all, and even if Jobet Williams isn't still alive that could be a great reason to get together like the first one, or whoever doesn't agree to be in it because of money comitted suicide, it really almost writes itself.....

Caveat:  You use all the same songs, and as it turns out Jeff Goldblum is now a hooker/trannie.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 11, 2007, 10:51:24 PM
Oh, and Hurt did come from a loaded family, attended Julliard, and turned down roles in "Jurassic Park," and the lead in "Misery," and was paid one and a quarter million for wearing a straw-hat in "The Village."

I would've liked to have seen him in Rabe's "Hurly Burly," which he won or was nominated for a Tony in '85, but I was in high school drinking beer and chasing tail.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 11, 2007, 11:26:39 PM
madupont,
The NYT and I don't always see eye to eye; but then I have no taste.  They can call him a schlockmeister or whatever they want, but I still like his work.  I mean, the guy saw something in Johnny Depp a long, long time ago - he (Waters) is not without talent.  Sure, Depp deserves credit for the work he does; but in my book, Waters deserves some credit for seeing that Depp could successfully carry out his vision and for giving Depp that work.

I'd also like to clarify -- I'm a fan of Waters, not necessarily of Ms. Locane.  So while I'm sorry her career is/was hit and miss (and miss and miss and miss), I'm not too surprised about it. 

jbottle,
I wouldn't call Hairspray and CryBaby completely representative of Waters' work.  Some of his earlier stuff, like Polyester, Pink Flamingos (the one where Divine eats dog poop), Female Trouble is seriously weird, maybe shocking to some, and not all that female-friendly.  I went to them with drunken frat guys, not other girls.  But then, not everything has to float your boat, right?  C'est la vie, c'est la guerre, and vive le difference.

Robin Williams went to Yale?  I know he went to Juilliard -- more importantly, he went to elementary school with my oldest sister for a year or two.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 11, 2007, 11:58:42 PM
He was different even that early -- I think it was in second grade they were in the same class. One day he came to school with his clothes on backwards, stuff like that. 

I figure the fact that she remembers Williams was in her class is some indication that he was unusual.  I can name a couple of kids from my second-grade class, but they're mostly kids I went through the whole K-6 (or more) with together so there was constant reinforcement of who they were.

And I guess I should confess, I've seen RV.  Twice.  I love Kristen Chynoweth and Jeff Daniels. Honest, that's all it is.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 12, 2007, 01:01:06 AM
harrie, re:#1051

"I'm not too surprised about it."    I wasn't either. It was when I first noticed, that unlike ordinary practice in theatre-parlance of line rehearsal, when I'd read to run-through her lines , her response was flat, her perception was that it was only necessary to memorize the lines.

Consequently, under the theory that the director would take care of what he wanted, I noticed as time went by, her readings over a four year span  had an emotional range of exactly one fall-back display of temperament. It never occurred to her to take the time to practice experiencing the range, or to develop a technique  to induce what could be conveyed. I found that odd. That's when you suggest acting classes of your choice. SOMEWHERE. Before it is too late.

There are a couple of odd things that happen, I find it interesting to observe off the wall or unusual reactions miscued by what people think the dialog is about or the situation, almost inevitably people going about their daily lives with no other choice would suggest: Go, to Wellesley,dear.    Or, "go to Vassar; Sarah Lawrence?  (What they are saying is: get a degree.)

Meanwhile, my ears did not pick up the throw-away line when she said,"I want to be a Star,".  It sound's like the celebreality forum of two weeks ago, following Paris Hilton. Since the after remark in protest that always followed was, "not an actor."   That was the real wish.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Donotremove on July 12, 2007, 04:04:53 AM
William Hurt could have sat on his butt and not done another thing after the performance he made in Kiss of the Spider Woman and you could still rank him up there with the best.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 12, 2007, 04:40:41 AM
I liked Hurt in Smoke, one of my favorite movies.  I believe it was a Paul Auster script, providing a very intimate sense of Brooklyn.  I've since read his Brooklyn Follies, which has a corner shot on the cover very similar to the one Augie took everyday, leading to a very touching moment when Hurt's character, Paul, recognizes his deceased wife in some of the photos.  So many wonderful side stories, such as Augie telling how he came to possess the camera.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Donotremove on July 12, 2007, 05:29:39 AM
Damn, Dzimas.  As many times as I've watched Smoke I missed that.  She was in one of the photos?  Keitel was extra good in that movie, too.  In fact, everyone was.  Fine job of casting.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 12, 2007, 08:59:09 AM
I haven't seen "Smoke" but I liked "The Music Of Chance" a lot.  It was one of those nice times when you really like a performance when you didn't expect it.  I rambled about it quite a bit on the NYTFF, so the mention of Paul Auster is like a triggering mechanism or whatever.

Anyways, I had read the book before I saw the movie, and when I pictured Jack Pozzi, I certainly didn't think of James Spader.  When he first shows up in the beginning of the movie, I was like, "Ugh, James Spader?  I like him and all, but there's no way I can put up with 90 minutes of him trying to play Jack Pozzi, he's clearly miscast...," and then like 2 seconds later, I was like, "Oh yeah, he's perfect, I can't imagine anyone else playing this part," etc. 



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 12, 2007, 11:38:47 AM
Wasn't it William Hurt in Body Heat?   I think I stopped paying attention after that...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 12, 2007, 11:41:00 AM
My only Ashley Judd story is that I was in New Orleans when they were filming Double Jeapordy

We actually ran into them while they were filming the scene in Cemetary (I think #2 - can't remeber the numbers but I remeber where it is located in town).

MY wife and I waited patiently for the movie to come out to relive our trip.  The movie was mostly memorable for that reason alone...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 12, 2007, 11:46:57 AM
Harrie said:
"for some reason, I thought madupont was referring to the female lead (the girl from the right side of the tracks, Polly Bergen's niece). "


yes...I was being purposely obtuse (or is it purposefully obtuse?).

It is a form of humor that I frequently use...although it seems to be more effective in person for some reason...can't imagine why, offhand...

...some might even say I overuse the mechanism...again, I can't quite imagine why...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 12, 2007, 11:50:32 AM
I'm sorry...I probably overdid it there, but after laying down so many hidden gems that go completely unrecognized, sometimes you have to force the issue and tread into the dreaded overt mode


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 12, 2007, 12:03:17 PM
That's okay, if I don't know a person (or on the internet, "know" a person), I assume they're not joking around whenever they say something that could go any number of ways.   In the past, I've been sure someone had to be kidding, then found out they weren't, then fell over myself explaining, apologizing, etc.  So I will file your obtuse/deadpan characteristic for future reference and use it when applicable.  Hopefully.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 12, 2007, 12:31:26 PM
Hurt was good in Body Heat and KotSW, and generally solid in the 80s.  Lately, I've only seen him playing sinister characters, all with his strange deadened voice -- as if evil is best represented by a kind of lack of vitality. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on July 12, 2007, 12:52:12 PM
Hi, barton!

If you are a Netflix subscriber and have some time (Melba postings support some time) you may enjoy Hurt in Rare Birds available for instant watching.  Good while you're working on your shoulder rolls or what have you... 8)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 12, 2007, 01:14:57 PM
I did like William Hurt in Body Heat; but it helps that I liked the movie itself and that Hurt played a dupe, so a little dullness was called for. IMHO, anyway.  I don't think I've seen Kiss of the Spider Woman, though I remember the hoopla.  Same goes for The Big Chill.

But I thought it was genius casting in Broadcast News to make Hurt the vapid newscaster who looks brilliant as long as he's reading Albert Brooks' words. It's like no acting was required for this part.  In general, I'm a Hurt detractor; he's just too subtle for me, I guess. Even in Altered States, while he's transmogrifying into a prehistoric creature or whatever, he's just kind of watching his arm like "Hmmm, this is different..."

Just my opinion, worth $.02 or less.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Donotremove on July 12, 2007, 02:17:34 PM
Kitnkaboodle, I hadn't thought of Rare Birds in a while.  Well worth a person's time, if only for the inventor's (I can't remember who played the part of the eccentric) submarine follies.

I've often wondered why William Hurt is attracted to film scripts that are "Peter Principaled", in that the Hurt character is elevated to just beyond his ability to cope.  Of course, in real life, most of us at times are placed thusly by situations that develop, not of our making.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 12, 2007, 03:09:20 PM
Hurt was good in Body Heat and KotSW, and generally solid in the 80s.  Lately, I've only seen him playing sinister characters, all with his strange deadened voice -- as if evil is best represented by a kind of lack of vitality. 


"...all with his strange deadened voice -- as if evil is best represented by a kind of lack of vitality."

BARTON, I think you've best described it because The Good Shepherd was where I dropped out of being able to work out  any more toleration of those characteristics.  A role which made the story of Aldrich Ames very exciting by comparison;but of course that had two excellent actors, whose quirks, I have learned to enjoy, as if they were merely strange acquaintances, perhaps even more so than some we pass everyday in the forums?

We understood whom Hurt was in The Big Chill(what appropo casting by name?)since we knew lots of guys like that as a result of the war.  I guess we we will know more again, with a difference that is simply our era. How much will their schtick vary from post-Vietnam.

Body Heat was a standard black and white noir from the Forties, in Remake with an exciting Kathleen Turner; so that made the cut.

It was in the film made from Hector Babenco's, Kiss of the Spider Woman that we got the consumate performance with a charismatic Raul Julia and a flippant Bill Hurt. I am wondering at this point, if anyone here remembers what the reason was for this story and eventual film? Why it ever came to light? Martinbeck3 might even recall it as a very,very, pre-Bolano about reality.  I already know the criticism on this line of thought and my reply in advance is: Sure it is Art. No problem. All art does start with a raison d'etre. And, Kiss of the Spider Woman, had one big time.

Still in all, if given my druthers, purely on weird personalities for the best actors who plays unusual characters, I will take John Hurt over Bill,any day.  Did you ever catch the little thing he did so elegantly opposite the young actor of what's his number,90210?  Right, Jason Priestley


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 12, 2007, 03:37:11 PM
It wasn't fair not to give you the exact title on that one.

"..the cultivated gay writer aroused and obsessed with struggling "pretty-boy" actor Jason Priestley in Love and Death on Long Island (1997);".

Yet, my favorite is still, White Mischief, where John Hurt is Gilbert Colville (I expect he made that name up for himself).

Everybody else is in it too and, when I checked the title, realized that I could not list them all after Ms. Scacchi but was amazed that maybe Dzimas wrote the review?  Or, it just stayed in his mind since 1987 as the most impressive scene. I, of course, as a woman have completely forgotten  about it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 12, 2007, 03:49:35 PM
When I say I purchased 12 tickets to "Derailed," I expect everyone to assume that I saw "Derailed" 12 times.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 12, 2007, 04:00:49 PM
Thanks, Kitin, I'll look for Rare Birds and "Hurt" myself a little. 

Anyone see the latest Die Hard (Germ., literally, "The Hard")?  I'm looking for almost any excuse to get into air conditioning, it being Nebraska and July and all that.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 12, 2007, 04:09:34 PM
The heat and humitity is downright opressive here in the Sovereign State of South Carolina, makes me want to go to the icebox and find something cool to drink.  We had a terrible scare of a thunder-storm with winds of up to 60 mph., but again, and I had cautioned everyone for calm considering it was the Federal Boys at the National Weather Service making the TV alert come on, it turned out to be nothing.  I'm not saying those federal boys don't know what they're doing up in Charleston, but my right laig and my bassett hound can tell you when there's weather coming.  Oh, well, yes, that li-bation...medacity I tell you!!!  Mendacity and lies!!!  Things Big Daddy things....."Boy...you know what my father's legacy to me was!!!  An empty suitcase!!!"  Wait, where was I know, that damn heat can be right disorientin'...ladies, sit down before you feel faint...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on July 12, 2007, 07:23:04 PM
That's okay, if I don't know a person (or on the internet, "know" a person), I assume they're not joking around whenever they say something that could go any number of ways.   In the past, I've been sure someone had to be kidding, then found out they weren't, then fell over myself explaining, apologizing, etc.  So I will file your obtuse/deadpan characteristic for future reference and use it when applicable.  Hopefully.

inside jokes are for insiders.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on July 12, 2007, 07:37:54 PM
I will take John Hurt over Bill,any day.

i'd probably have to agree. i like william, but had to go to imdb to see which of his flicks i had seen. have to admit that i have seen fewer than i thought. he was good in "gorky park" though.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 12, 2007, 08:16:20 PM
That's okay, if I don't know a person (or on the internet, "know" a person), I assume they're not joking around whenever they say something that could go any number of ways.   In the past, I've been sure someone had to be kidding, then found out they weren't, then fell over myself explaining, apologizing, etc.  So I will file your obtuse/deadpan characteristic for future reference and use it when applicable.  Hopefully.

inside jokes are for insiders.

Are you calling me an Outsider?  Then I wanna be Matt Dillon.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on July 12, 2007, 08:25:27 PM
(smile)

i'll be pony boy. don't forget the peanut butter. or was it bologna? been too long since i seen that one.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 12, 2007, 11:07:09 PM
Harrie:  Whenever I accuse an actor of playing themselves, I always wonder, what if they are just "acting," I don't know that William Hurt is really kind of a boring, impenetrable, and pensive guy, but probably, but then, just because he plays one on TV, and I think he does a great job of playing a horny slob not inattentive to material concern in "Body Heat," but anyway...

I thought that if he had the ballz to be funnier in "Mr. Brooks," or if he had better lines (...he should have been calling Costner a "p-word" the whole time, c'mon, you lesbian, let's kill some people, "I see a tree by the road, go hug it, Brooksy...[brakes screeching] and then Costner gets to say "How many people have we killed together, huh?  Who did all the dirty work?  And you just get Hurt going, "Because you were the one who wanted to get wet..." or whatever...

You can go from funny to creepy to funny to creepy, but to go from family to Dane Cook to William Hurt to Kevin Costner.....it's like rename the movie "1001 ways to kill yourself with a Milk Dud..."

If Costner had gone, ok, I get it, the only way this movie is funny is if I play a successful guy who hallucinates that he's a serial killer or not, and William Hurt plays kind of a fraternity egg-on guy that I can't get out of my head, and Dane Cook is an intern sychophant who I want to kill but he wants to learn how to be a multi-millionaire, and I can't kill him because I'm not a serial killer I'm a successful businessman and this guy is just sucking up to money...

Instead you almost get a diatribe on how the boring off the boring and the boring go to see it...that, my brother, is the truly frightening thing...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 13, 2007, 01:03:14 AM
There was that one movie where Hurt played opposite of Deneuve. I can't remember what it was now but it was fun to watch if a bit tedious at times.  And then there was Children of a Lesser God, which I thought he was excellent in, not to mention how good Marlee Matlin was.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 13, 2007, 01:06:04 AM
I thought his role in The Big Chill was one of his weaker ones.  It didn't carry with it much resonance.  He was the stereotypical slacker who just wanted a cabin to chill out in with a young muse in a very flexible Meg Tilly.  Too bad all his parts weren't in order.  A Vietnam War accident as I remember.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Donotremove on July 13, 2007, 02:31:24 AM
Accidental Tourist had everybody in it.  Gina Davis with lace-topped ankle socks and high heels, the dog, Turner and her luscious mouth, the maddenly eccentric family (they drove me nearly nuts) . . . I watch this film about once a year.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 09:55:22 AM
Msr. Donot Remove,

I was reminded the other night that the best leading man to play opposite Deneuve was David Bowie in   The Hunger   but I wasn't ready to watch it again. It is too intense.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 13, 2007, 10:12:09 AM
Gérard Depardieu may have something to say about that,

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080610/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 13, 2007, 10:14:54 AM
The Shame,

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian Muslims have called for a ban on the blockbuster movie "Evan Almighty," saying it is offensive to their religion, state media reported Friday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070713/ennew_afp/entertainmentfilmus


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 13, 2007, 10:28:33 AM
Per Harrie's mention, I rented The Prime Gig -- while I can admire its offbeat quality and good perfs from Ed Harris, Vince Vaughn, Julia Ormond, and Rory Cochrane, I wasn't quite sure what the movie wanted to be.  (nice to see Wallace Shawn doing his cranky misfit thing in the early boiler room scenes, though)  Though it starts with a snappy Glengarry Glen Ross feel, that slacks off early and we spend a rather leisurely hour getting Vaughn used to his new telemarketing pitch (an investment scam, run by Ed Harris, who seizes every frame in which he appears), taking scenic walks with his new GF, and bedding down cozily while the new GF (Ormond, who is Harris' partner, but no longer involved with him, she assures Vaughn) removes key parts of his skeptical brain via his penis.  We know where it's going about the time that he starts raking in money and she starts begging him to marry her so she can get her green card (she's British, it seems, and really really needs a green card).  When the con-within-the-con is ultimately revealed, the film peters out and ends abruptly, as if to give the viewer a taste of what it's like to scammed.  

Still, it's fun to watch, a film populated by the sort of actors who hold the attention with their basic physical presence --- Vince Vaughn is one of those amazingly loose collections of joints, a man composed mostly of legs and arms and shoulders, and it's amusing just to watch him trot down the street or leap up a flight of stairs.  As a nice contrast, Ed Harris is an intense and tightly-wound bundle of muscle and gristle, someone you feel will only find repose on his deathbed.  Cochrane, playing a crippled and troubled roommate of Vaughn's, seems to perform the plot function that a child might in another such film -- a motivator for the hero to go out and make some money and provide protection from the harsh world.  But Cochrane also serves to show us a kind of decency and compassion in Vaughn's otherwise cynical and dishonest character, which presents something of a problem in terms of figuring out Vaughn's actions towards the end --- he is scamming an elderly woman, apparently feels a serious qualm about taking her life savings, but allows himself to be egged on by the team, and makes the kill.

    


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 10:39:50 AM
I thought that The Bill Chill was pre-Slacker and that the new Bill Hurt was the epitome of every Vietnam vet drug connection from about 1969 on.
This was (I think?) an intro for Ms.Tilly as well doing her daily warm up exercises which most people find off-putting in young dancers since very few people know them socially. However nightly dancing in the pre-disco was a very important part of daily life in the early Vietnam era as the intensity increased and the realization about childless marriages that would be split up because of the draft, (which reminds me that one of the cornier scenes was the era's concept of the surrogate father to solve the infertility problem of the day's smart young liberal-conservatives or conservative-liberals and my goodness that was Mary Kay Place who is now competently Harry Dean Stanton's wife in Big Love! How we change
along with the Time between  The Big Chill   and   Big Love. Most of the people in the former film were college educated; a group who in real life wouldn't begin experimenting with the "professional" commune living situation until the Seventies had begun).

An average community of about 3000 of the Hip, the ex-hipsters,the Yippies, who came out of the middle classes of that day, had their own band produced from within their midst to start with, those that I knew were former art-school students who had played for their own amusement and became highly experienced performing every night for the bread while their vocation in art was put on hold. Suddenly a venue would pop up and the faithful would  congregate to dance to their own personal musicians under red lights.  It became an imperative how to locate the right ballpoint pen with an ink that would  show up when jotting poems into notebooks under these light conditions; then you'd say screw it have another beer and dance.

If Bill Hurt's character had any inkling, he would have taken the maximum drugs prior to his call up for the physical and get written off for psychological instability. It worked for a number of dealers who remained in their lucrative calling or side-line, even a very nice healthy specimen from Lithuania who was my neighbor down the alley and painted his  kitchen-stove candy apple red enameled very professionally and came up with an eggplant high-gloss urethane floor to go with it. He did have that striking appearance that I'm sure you've run into that ran in the Royal families of Europe sort of a cross between Nicholas of Russia and his English cousin, mesomorphically fair-haired with  the full moustache remaining after the trimmed down beard disappeared and before it came back into fashion.  Our newspapers were illustrated with Peter Max stylism that sometimes got in the way of the journalism and poetry.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 13, 2007, 11:21:36 AM
Geez, barton, can you get your rental money back?  Like you, I was a little underwhelmed by The Prime Gig itself but liked some of the performances a lot.  I came across it via flipping the channel rather than making a conscious choice to procure it, set aside the time to watch, etc.  Plus, watching it was like "Hey, there's Wallace Shawn.  And Tara from Buffy!"  etc., so there was also the pleasant surprise factor at work. Thus, I may have made the movie sound more watchable than it was.   Can I send you $3 or something? 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 11:23:38 AM
dzimas, Reply #1083

Although Le Dernier Metro was a very sophisticate replication of the period that parallels today's current film on Piaf for instance, it was  just the 1980 continuum of a fancy Americans had about themselves as well in home-grown films pitting Robert Redford against Barbara Streisand for--
The Way we Were.

I preferred the Nineties work of Depardieu (or later 80's, when it began):
Retour de Martin Guerre;Danton; Jean de Florette;Camille Claudel; Cyrano de Bergerac;Uranus; Tous les matins du Monde;Germinal; Le Colonel Chabert;The Secret Agent;Le Comte de Monte Cristo;Balzac;Vatel;Les Miserables;Napoleon;and I understand that  La Mome  is La Vie en Rose?n'est ce pas?

I still look forward to all the films produced over the last five years that we haven't seen.

But, no, David Bowie is by far the scariest persona to play opposite Deneuve. You have to experience the film to understand the dynamics; it is the most sophisticated film on vampirism ever made.

Although I do like her gentler side as Odette de Crecy, in Raul Ruis, Time Regained, opposite Marcello Mazzarello as Marcel Proust.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 12:01:03 PM
New Movie

http://movies2.nytimes.com/2007/07/13/movies/13talk.html?8dpc

I saw the in-theatre trailers and was mystified by what they had strung together. The revue gets down to the real story.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 13, 2007, 12:29:52 PM
The Shame,

KUALA LUMPUR (AFP) - Malaysian Muslims have called for a ban on the blockbuster movie "Evan Almighty," saying it is offensive to their religion, state media reported Friday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070713/ennew_afp/entertainmentfilmus

Well, we usually have Christian groups here saying the same things when a religious comedy comes out don't we?  I remember the banter when The Life of Brian came out...

The Old Testament is part of the Muslim religion too, is it not?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 13, 2007, 12:36:44 PM
"The Hunger" I tried to watch a few months ago but it was so dated in the worst of 1980's fashion and luridly lit that it was hard for me to do anything but go "huh."

As far as "typical slacker," Hurt was a coke-dealer in a Porche 911, of a type during the 1980's, you might say, unless that was Beringer's ride, in which case I still present the of a type argument with Elliott of "True Romance," he simply had to be driving a 911, no question about it, and when Q. Tarantino was writing the script, with the reference to Vietnam movies, T.J. Hooker, etc., was a script set about a decade before it was shot, I guess.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 13, 2007, 12:47:40 PM
Harrie, no worries, the Prime Gig was a netflix rental, and my plan is such that one DVD sets me back about a dollar, so we're talking pocket change.  And, as I indicated, it was fun in some ways.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 01:04:45 PM
Reply #1086 (  to jbottle somewhat later  )

"I thought that The Bill Chill was pre-Slacker and that the new Bill Hurt was the epitome of every Vietnam vet drug connection from about 1969 on." 

Slackers were a West Coast phenomenon several decades later and after the fact of the setting of The Big Chill; but then their plague spread East and caused a lethargic haze to spread over Princeton, so that prep-school students took their SATs and then lay out on the golf-course at night to do extasy.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 01:11:28 PM
Porsche was not unknown in that set. I had a friend more interested in sound for the theatre and Eisenstein as film, who taught thermodynamics and aerodynamics. He began experimenting on something he wanted to see happen with the Porsche by constructing one in fiber glass and giving it his VW engine while working on his premise. Last heard from, taking up residence in Silicone Valley before the bust. No pun intended.

But I am more curious;are you averse to David Bowie's creations?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 13, 2007, 01:15:46 PM
Ok...so last night, I was having a conversation when the phrase "Out of Africa" came out of my mouth in conversation...and it made me think that we have not ripped this one up and down and sideways yet.

I don't believe I've seen the movie since it came out on the big screen and I'm sure it has probably lost a step with the passage of time, but I recall liking it very much.  The cinematography was especially stunning.  And I like period pieces that try to be historically accurate.

This movie came out probably during the height of Meryl Streep's popularity.  In fact I think she had already won so many awards that there was already a bit of a backlash against her by this time.  This role I thought was particularly well sutied for her.

I've seen Klaus Brandauer mis-cast in a number of movies, but he also, seemed perfect here.

I'm not a huge fan of Robert Redford in this type of role, but I don't recall it standing out as poor.

For Sydney Pollack...it must have been very different than filming Tootsie!

Over all, from 20 years ago memory -- an "A"

I need to rent it and see if it is now as good as I recall...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 13, 2007, 02:30:35 PM
You will need methamphetamines to stay awake:  Out of Africa will make you feel like you've taken a potent date-rape drug.  It will make you so tired that you will scroll back in your mind to try and figure out who slipped you a Mickey. 

Am I averse to David Bowie creations?  I like some of his music, and appreciate the art bravado or whatever he was trying to do--but I don't think "The Hunger" was a David Bowie creation, but more of a (Ridley?  Tony?) I think Tony Scott creation...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 02:39:55 PM
So! He made the character. Isn't that hischtick?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 03:05:07 PM
trojanhorse  re:#1095

If you do, be sure and watch for the moment where Meryl, in retelling her memories,as Karen, goes back inside herself and manages to do what I have never seen any other actor be capable of doing, she looks at the memory and it is visible in her eyes looking at entirely an interior perspective emotionally in the mind.

I had to spend quite a bit of time in the Spring months going over comparisons to the Julie Harris performance, a one woman monologue,as Isak Dineson,in The Devil's Child. There was some material that I couldn't quite place as to whether I'd seen and heard it in -- Out of Africa.

That's when I located a website from the Kenya POV that had the answers to just about everything to do with the writer. I quickly learned that they are no longer responding to it when I posted information on where Karen's father had died in his cabin among the Chippewa near Fond du Lac,Wisconsin.    There was apparently a great hope to discount the belief that  Dineson had actually contracted syphillis from Baron von Blixen;thus the emphasis on his Kenyan mistress in the film to carry out the context of their story-line for the film where you see Meryl Streep collapse in the midst of the coffee field.

They actually held a conference at the university to discuss the matter among the somewhat Scandinavian medical scholars of Wisconsin, to decide one way or the other on who had the communicable disease as it would make a difference whether she had inherited the disease rather than through sexual contact.    We don't hear about it with Denys Finch Hatton.   Dineson herself made perfectly clear what kind of physical difficulties she was having as a result of the kinds of medication that she had to take, when she made her visit to the United States to be honored for her work.

By the way, the photographs of both the exterior and the interior of Karen's house in Kenya's Ngong Hills makes perfectly clear that life was a great deal more Spartan than the lavish colorful interiors Pollack okayed to furnish the sets.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 13, 2007, 05:06:30 PM
so not entirely historically accurate...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 08:49:54 PM
The person who developed a rather consuming interest in Dinesen(sorry, like it or not gave the wrong vowel ending to her name,) was a doctor and collected materials on every facet of Karen von Blixen's literature. If I say that this was a woman, would you be surprised that she found fault with everything that Sydney Pollack did in adjusting his story line to go where he wanted? She didn't like that Robert Redford had an attitude more like Robert Redford than Denys Finch Hatton; almost as if in her mind's eye, she had developed a crush on DFH to go along with identifying with Karen/Isak, and therefore Karen's friend could do no wrong! She even objected to the presents that Pollack has Redford/Hatton hand to Meryl in the movie, one of which is a pen, implying that Pollack is saying Hatton was encouraging Karen to write, although she had been writing before she came to Africa.

So it gets very women's lib, in that aspect. I started reading the stories very early on, as a young girl, so I did not interpret anything in them as being anything other than stories.  She had been a very popular writer who, because she was ill, spent part of WW2 back in Occupied  Europe, possibly as a dependent on her family rather than in Africa where, in any case, the Germans were also active in Sudan; this no doubt motivated her to become  very prolific in her writing, so as to contribute means of support. There was some notation that she had  to pay 20,000 francs of a debt Bror still owed in Paris on gifts for ladies although he himself remained in Africa up to the late Forties; but, I believe he was German.

Oh, there is no doubt about it that the things indicated about her in Pollack's film were true, I'd have to see that scene again where she kills the lion because that happened when she was taking supplies to Bror who was at a military base camp during the First World War. She went alone with seven Kikuyu and a team of oxen drawing a wagon loaded with supplies when the lion attacked one of the oxen. So, true, the thought did go through my head, for such devotion that she obviously adored and was very much in love with Bror, he did not feel reciprocally because he expected relations with wives to be as he knew them from European aristocracy.   On his way back from base camp in the North which was Masai territory, the military was holed up because of the tropical rains and at the time the Masai were riven with syphilis brought into East Africa by Europeans.

(this of course is why I like White Mischief, another true story set in a later period of WW2, and particularly John Hurt as Colville who lives among the Masai, a hobby which makes him an outcast to European society although he is extremely wealthy. He is an eccentric, an oddball, and he feels that he is excluded; but that's probably why he  has the Masai for company.)

Of course, when Karen arrives back at the Ngong Hills after that 1914 adventure killing the lion and staying with Bror in his army tent, she realizes that something is physically wrong with her by February 1915 and by May, she writes her mother that she is coming to Europe for medical treatment.

So between the documentation on the writer, and the Pollack film, it is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It's the same way about judging performances, because it is hard to estimate after Streep has done so many excellently played roles (Likewise, Redford) how can I say this is her best performance although I felt that way at the time?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 13, 2007, 09:00:11 PM
It's a snoozefest, but some mosquito netting, a liter of Grey Goose and a date-rape drug.  Welcome to the jungle.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 13, 2007, 10:48:30 PM
I once was forced to leave a theater when I couldn't take being subjected to the sound level everyone was enduring as normality.  After that I immediately began using ear-plugs of the kind printers have to use on the job and I keep them in my purses and pockets, so that I find them as the season's change, and I put them in before the sound system turns on and leave them there until the excitement inducing sound level drops back to more average decibels. It is usually all the prevues that are hyped at outdoor concert decibels of another era; and then it subsides.

But now they've got me in another area. The popcorn that comes with excess pre-salting in the fake butter.

I spend more time than ever not going to the movies but I had always made a distinction between movies writ large and the scaled down made for the small screen anyway. At least two movies that I recently mentioned here would probably have been better not seen at home. One thing that I would not have missed in a movie-house was The Queen, especially for the segment at Balmoral in the Scots' Highlands. One drawback to that all the same, in my locale they don't get Morgan's humor and I am not sure of whether that is because it is British or just political. Republicans do not see politics as humorous.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 14, 2007, 02:05:32 AM
Pat Buchanan does.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 14, 2007, 08:30:43 PM
Yes, his family name is big in my territory. I try to ignore that.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 14, 2007, 11:25:31 PM
His sister seems like a bitch, but at least you could have a drink with Pat even if he hated your political position.  I think he's one of the nation's straight shooters and great personalities.  After he ran for President half-heatedly and seeminly too amused the way people run for high-school president, and especially after he donned the coon-skin cap and carried a musket for the one photo-op, I was like, he knows it's over, and it was.  Big Respek.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: bosox18d on July 16, 2007, 03:47:15 AM
Streeps accent in Out of Africa is so bad I wanted to shoot my TV.Watching her act is like getting a tooth pulled.I am trying to find the name of an 80's? flick about wartime UK where the mother took her children to the countryside to live w/the grandparents.They start out in London and the older daughter is sneaking out to see some guy and it shows the younger kids at some bombed out bldg. in the neighborhood.It was one of those quirky flicks that showed the everyday mundane stuff and the results of the bombing on London.When they are at the grandparents place the young boy and his grandad are playing Cricket and the kid throws him a "googly(sp)" which the grandad is all excited about.Any ideas?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 16, 2007, 05:31:03 AM
Sounds like Hope and Glory by John Boorman,

http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Glory-Sebastian-Rice-Edwards/dp/B00005AUJS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-5791205-4542015?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1184578209&sr=8-1

Great film!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 16, 2007, 10:48:34 AM
For the life of me, I can't see the appeal in Harry Potter in either book or film form.  Such an obvious pastiche of fantasy films, reduced to a mind-numbing level.  I would think that 77 mil is a bit of a disappointment given its track record at the box office.  I wonder what Michael Moorcock thinks of dear Harry, as he was always so harsh on Lord of the Rings, which is high art compared to HP.
.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 16, 2007, 10:53:47 AM
I think Steve Carell will make a much better Maxwell Smart than he did a Moses.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 16, 2007, 11:08:04 AM
I think Steve Carell will make a much better Maxwell Smart than he did a Moses.

Agreed.  And I like the idea of Anne Hathaway as 99, too. 

However -- I saw a promo for Underdog, and it's just bad.  Typical Disney hack job to cash in on some poor critters. No artistic merit whatsoever to be found here.  (And yes, I did just use "artistic merit" and Underdog in the same frame of reference.)  Sorry, just my bitter Disney hatred speaking.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 16, 2007, 11:19:10 AM
For the life of me, I can't see the appeal in Harry Potter in either book or film form.  Such an obvious pastiche of fantasy films, reduced to a mind-numbing level.  I would think that 77 mil is a bit of a disappointment given its track record at the box office.  I wonder what Michael Moorcock thinks of dear Harry, as he was always so harsh on Lord of the Rings, which is high art compared to HP.
.
Without actually intending to, I spent a weekend recently fitfully watching the middle two HP movies, having already seen the first and fourth.  I actually rather liked Prisoner of... (Uzbekistan?  I should look it up.), but that was more for visual style than plot, acting, characters and the like.  (Wasn't aware it was directed by Cuaron until later).  What they are is a mishmash of archtypes centered around common deep childhood fears and fantasies.  Nothing new, but then there is nothing new under the sun, as Qoheleth was fond of noting.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 16, 2007, 11:47:31 AM
Two minutes of Harry Potter, or Harry Potter chat of any kind, is a powerful narcotic for me.  Ditto, LOTR.  It is with a certain perverse pride that I note that I have never seen any of the movies, nor read beyond the first chapter of the first HP book.  My daughter has gone so far as to suggest that, if I refuse to read this stuff, I should go online and pore over synopses so as to rescue myself from being a cultural dunce.  I suspect that some kind of cultural osmosis is at work anyway and I will soon know who Frodo and Gandolf are, not matter how blinkered my existence.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 16, 2007, 11:49:10 AM
I think Steve Carell will make a much better Maxwell Smart than he did a Moses.



Looking forward to it...



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 16, 2007, 12:11:31 PM
Name the movie, and the speaking character:

"Unguent......I need an unguent."



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 16, 2007, 12:36:27 PM
Yeah, ya fuckin' mute.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 16, 2007, 12:37:47 PM
What're you, nuts?  We had pancakes for breakfast.  I gotta go somewhere I can get a shot and a beer... and a steak, maybe.  Not more fuckin' pancakes, come on!!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 16, 2007, 12:39:50 PM
Two minutes of Harry Potter, or Harry Potter chat of any kind, is a powerful narcotic for me.  Ditto, LOTR.  It is with a certain perverse pride that I note that I have never seen any of the movies, nor read beyond the first chapter of the first HP book.  My daughter has gone so far as to suggest that, if I refuse to read this stuff, I should go online and pore over synopses so as to rescue myself from being a cultural dunce.  I suspect that some kind of cultural osmosis is at work anyway and I will soon know who Frodo and Gandolf are, not matter how blinkered my existence.

 
I think, being as I know how averse you are to the whole idea of sci fi fantasy, and prefer the types of movies grounded firmly in reality, that the Potter/LotR movies would not interest you.  But I will say, the LotR movies are much, much, better in every way, and I would feel that way even if I hadn't rerererereread the Toliken books.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 16, 2007, 12:43:57 PM
What're you, nuts?  We had pancakes for breakfast.  I gotta go somewhere I can get a shot and a beer... and a steak, maybe.  Not more fuckin' pancakes, come on!!

O.K., we'll stop, get pancakes and then we'll get laid, alright?

One of my 30 or 40 favorite bits of dialogue from that movie, cracks me up every time:

Oh, fuck it, I don't have to talk either, man! See how you like it.  [Pause] Just total fuckin' silence. [Pause]  Two can play at that game, smart guy. We'll just see how you like it.  [Pause] Total silence.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 16, 2007, 12:54:02 PM
Yeah, well, it depends on the artist.  You know... Jose Feliciano?  Ya got no complaints.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 01:14:04 PM
Hey--what movie are y'all talking about?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 16, 2007, 01:19:23 PM
Was he funny looking apart from that?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 16, 2007, 01:41:40 PM
For some reason, today's IMDB poll reminded me of you guys.....
http://www.imdb.com/poll/   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 16, 2007, 01:45:03 PM
Since "... the cutest of all, bar none, etc." is not one of the choices, I guess I will have to mark it "Other."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: bosox18d on July 16, 2007, 03:45:34 PM
Dzimas,"Hope and Glory" is the movie.Many Thanks.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 16, 2007, 05:07:42 PM
barton, 

Just between you and me, the only reason that LotR could possibly be much better than Potter(which I too was forced to watch as a good hostess) is one main ingredient the other does not have going for it.
Vigo Mortensson.  But it is much more voyeuristic to watch what sounds like a stupid role because of the title: The History of Violence.  And, to think that people around here who praised William Hurt are not aware of what a dumb role he played  by living in Chicago, makes some people hopeless.  At least Vigo had the ability to change his major scene in life; in character of course.

I only say this because Raf Fiennes was a major disappointment as Mordimer.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 16, 2007, 07:19:24 PM
Funny, I just heard the radio promo for "I now pronounce you Harry & David"  or whatever the names are...  (the new one with Adam Sandler and Kevin James)   and the theme music in the background was Mika's  Grace Kelly   ...not sure what they're getting at there.


Title: The Bourne Trilogy
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 16, 2007, 07:31:19 PM
Ok...Jason Bourne...Hit or Miss?

I had no expectations whtsoever when I saw the first one -- hadn't heard a word about it, I just found myself in the theater because my wife likes Matt Damon.

I loved it. 

It starts out with some good mystery nuggets that have you interested but not necessarily "hooked."  Somehow his stature does not lead you to see him as particularly menacing, but I felt they totally had you believing after the scene when he disarms the Polezei in the Park in Berlin.  I distinctly recall sitting up straighter in my seat as if to say "now you've got my attention."

I still whip out the video just to watch the one scene where he takes out "The Professor"  (Clive Owen) in the snow covered meadow. "Do you ever get the headaches?"

I had a bit of trouble with Franka Potente, but that was my only complaint and it is Franka ly a minor one...  :)

Big Hit in my household...we are all anxiously waiting for #3


Title: Bourne Supremacy
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 16, 2007, 07:38:47 PM
I was nervous about the sequel, but was pleasantly surprised.  One of the best examples of matching music to mood in this genre that I can remember.

How about when he's talking to Pamela Landy (Joan Allen) and casually asks if that girl that used to work on Treadstone can be the agent to meet him on the bridge.  Ms Landy says,  "I don't know if I can find her" and Borne says, "Sure you do, she's standing right next to you"  and the whole room full of people spin around to look out the window, realizing for the first time that he has been watching them the entire time they've been on the phone.

He is The Shadow and James Bond rolled into one.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 16, 2007, 08:29:37 PM
I liked the first 2 "Bourne"s and the 3rd one has Paddy Considine in it, so mark it.  I liked "Dead Man's Shoes" a lot, and he was funny in "Hot Fuzz", so I'm glad to see him get a good opportunity like this.  Hopefully he won't be under-utilized or whatever like the great Jean Reno was in "Ronin".   


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 09:06:19 PM
So, "Captivity" seems like an encouraging summer flick, I mean, "torture porn," yeah, I'll have a Milk Duds, Large FIZZBEV so I can, uh, go watch the new torture porn movie because that is the GENRE THAT I'M INTO.  Nevermind that I'm thirtysomething and don't have a date or even a BUDDY MOVIE FRIEND.  No, it's not quite that GENRE.  This is a genre, not fully understood for the REALLY ALIENATED, like central casting for a serial killer movie, all in acid-washed jean shorts, old metal tees, high tops.  It's a FILM FOR AND ABOUT WINNERS, and really what not a lot of people understand are the CATHARTIC MOMENTS where we AS A SOCIETY PURGE ourselves of a lot of negative energy.  Finally, Hollywood has found a GENRE FOR ME, this new creative tableau known commonly as TORTURE PORN.  This is too much of an art movie to be a blockbuseter, but at least somebody in HOLLYWOOD is BALLSY.  I mean, when you have a cave underneath your otherwise normal looking suburban home, where is that movie for you?  Harry Potter?  HARDLY.  Transformer?  I already have a TRANS AM AND SKV ("serial killer van," my own joke, you know, the WHITE VAN WITH NO WINDOWS and MAGNETIC BUSINESS SIGN), uh, "Ratatouille," no thanks.  Finally, with a serious mainstream art director like Rolang Joffe, Hollywood has discovered a new genre, like BUDDY COP, or SUSPENSE/COMEDY, but in this case it's more artistic, and it's TORTURE PORN.  Whip out those AIR JORDANS, muscle tees, and don't worry about showering or anything, we'll all be there, you know, 35, never had a girlfriend, voted most likely to shoot up the high school, yeah, you know, real marginal types that come out of the woodwork for real ART.  So, I'll see you there, I'll be the one in the FRONT ROW.  You'll be the other four.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 09:31:08 PM
Oh, yeah, and "Beerfest" is pretty funny, or REALLY FUNNY depending on if you thought "Supertroopers" was pretty funny or REALLY FUNNY or if you thought Broken Lizard's [Whatever the Island One], can't think, long day, but yeah, Beerfest celebrates it's threadbare plot, has boobs every 15 min. and otherwise pleases the middle-aged or so FRAT-BOY SENSE OF HUMOR, no but really, it's as wise a send-up of the t(*)(*)ty-beer movie as we are likely to see, but the main fun is how they don't stick strictly to a formula the way more disappointing the last gag was...if you are a fan of the genre, you know that the setup for a bad joke can be as disappointing and boring as it gets, but in "Beerfest," the jokes come fast and furious, whether they work or not, but it looks like everyone is having fun and "Farva" figures in prominently, but all of them are funny...anyway, it's that Spring Break Formula of SAVE THE PRISTINE PARTY LODGE from EVIL DEVELOPERS, except it revolves around a BEER FORMULA...anyway, there are worst ways to spend and hour and a half and I should know.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 09:37:44 PM
No, I really should know...

It's all permutations of make out with good looking/ugly chick

.....have epiphany or alienate friends and family.....

.....puke on your housepet or declare your candidacy for Governor at every wedding reception.....say "yeah, but are those two things really mutually-exclusive?" before passing out in the driveway.....

Three acts......not necessarily in that order, shuffle, repeat......

Please know that whatever the squall,

I am your huckleberry, dear chasm,

Sincerely yours,

jbottle.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 10:15:32 PM
Not at all, I think both films plow a lot of the same ETHICAL TERRITORY.  I'm looking forward to the next TORTURE PORN FILM FROM ROLAND JOFFE the way the pubescent teen circles the building for HP.  Sure, it's a newer genre than FANTASY, but hey, if Hollywood weren't creating new audiences how would the cineplex quit hemmoraging movies, "Music & Lyrics," uh, no.  Not that TORTURE PORN is about to become as ubiquitous as the CHICK FLICK, too arty, think of the evolution INDEPENDENT FILM had to take in order to morph into MAINSTREAM FARE, same way TORTURE PORN WITH ROLAND JOFFE, it's the way Hardee's made meat sexy again, you know, for the kids.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 11:25:17 PM
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2007/CAPTV.php

So, "Captivity" does $4M over three days in 1,000 theaters, and supposedly horror fans are already dialed in.....WTF???

A $400 per theater Sunday...can you imagine that crowd, that's basically four shows and 10-12 people per show. 

I'm tempted to actually go, but as a journalist, not that I'm a journalist, but I'm not the type to go see TORTURE PORN, I mean, did you see the way everyone felt dirty just seeing the ROLAND JOFFE FILM???

I almost feel slightly filthy just writing about it and not even seeing it.  As soon as I leave this keyboard I am going to literally take a shower because "Captivity" makes me feel dirty just from reading about other people going to see it.  I mean, this is the new cultural dividing line:  Those who felt like taking a shower after seeing or reading about someone seeing "Captivity," and those who wallow in the grime and smut and degredation, I think this may be the best cultural dividing point since "60 Min." and "America's Funniest Home Videos," I mean, dial in Elisha Cuthbert's rasberry, and imagine the rasberry on Roland Joffe's face!!!  Idiots.....some people don't know art when you slap them right in the face with it.....this is what Joffe understands and what TORTURE PORN AFICIANADOS accept with dirty fingernails and unkempt couture, hair, Jordan's, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 16, 2007, 11:27:56 PM
Did I just call myself a TORTURE PORN AFICIANADO???  Damn, that feel good, I mean, to you know, belong to something.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 17, 2007, 01:04:39 AM
Oilcan, your new avatar is much more pleasant to look at.

No problemo, bosox.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 17, 2007, 01:07:21 AM
Did I just call myself a TORTURE PORN AFICIANADO???  Damn, that feel good, I mean, to you know, belong to something.

The horror of it all.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 17, 2007, 10:40:35 AM
Oilcan, Whisky, Jose Feliciano -- ya got no problems.   The dubbing for tv version has some pretty funny substitutions, which has the kidnappers conversing at times like the Hardy boys.  I'd never heard the word "fooze" or "foozling" before seeing the dubbed version.

"Little Children" arrives in the mail today.  Aside from seeing some Winslet skin, I have no agenda in renting this. 







Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 17, 2007, 10:53:42 AM
Oilcan, Whisky, Jose Feliciano -- ya got no problems.   The dubbing for tv version has some pretty funny substitutions, which has the kidnappers conversing at times like the Hardy boys.  I'd never heard the word "fooze" or "foozling" before seeing the dubbed version.

"Little Children" arrives in the mail today.  Aside from seeing some Winslet skin, I have no agenda in renting this. 


Speaking of Ms. Winslet, she and Leonardo DiCaprio are filming around here, too -- a flick called Revolutionary Road (at least, right now that's what it's called).  No big sightings, though -- this film company isn't as outgoing as some of the others.  If I do run into Ms. Winslet, barton, I promise to pass along salutations -- though I believe Sam Mendes is directing this one. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 17, 2007, 10:55:34 AM
...I mean, did you see the way everyone felt dirty just seeing the ROLAND JOFFE FILM???

Is he related to that guy who used to draw the pictures for the back page of MAD Magazine, where you fold the page in thirds or whatever, and the pieces of the picture that connect at the folds form another picture?  


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 17, 2007, 10:59:30 AM
I only say this because Raf Fiennes was a major disappointment as Mordimer.

But he was great in "Wallace & Gromit: Curse of the Were-Rabbit".  I know, I know, how can anyone be "great" in a voice-role in an animation movie?  Generally, I'd agree with you, but if there's an exception to the rule of "there's no such thing as a 'great' voice performance in an animation movie," then it's Fiennes as the gold-digging cad in "W&G:COTWR". 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 17, 2007, 10:59:47 AM
Wasn't his name Jaffe?

Like your Barton Fink postcard, btw.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 17, 2007, 11:00:39 AM
Like your Barton Fink postcard, btw.

THE HOTEL EARLE
"A Day Or A Lifetime"



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 17, 2007, 11:05:10 AM
"We'll be hearing from that kid, and I don't mean a postcard."


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 17, 2007, 11:06:31 AM
And congrats to our new Senior Member!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 17, 2007, 12:39:13 PM
I somewhat regret my rant from last night about Roland Joffe, but I was just highly amused at how much reviewers went out of their way to say how dirty they felt about the whole thing.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: peloux on July 17, 2007, 02:27:02 PM
>>>>>>-- a flick called Revolutionary Road (at least, right now that's what it's called). 

The title rings a bell, i.e., Richard Yates' best novel (IMO) from the early 60s. DiCap and Winslet seem right for the principles. Marital strife in suburbia. Very slick prose, reminiscent of Salinger. I was so impressed and immediately delved into more Yates, but nothing else measured up, in my view.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 17, 2007, 04:55:30 PM
Oilcan, Whisky, Jose Feliciano -- ya got no problems.   The dubbing for tv version has some pretty funny substitutions, which has the kidnappers conversing at times like the Hardy boys.  I'd never heard the word "fooze" or "foozling" before seeing the dubbed version.

"Little Children" arrives in the mail today.  Aside from seeing some Winslet skin, I have no agenda in renting this. 

I

It's horrible. I think it was the one movie that I could not bother to review other than maybe saying that Winslet falls in love with the guy who was the Mormon (or Meryl Streep's son;here we go again....) in, Angels in America, that clerk who works for Al Pacino and sent Meryl to the electric chair when she was Mrs. Rosenberg.

The only funny moments are when Winslet comes in the door because her husband doesn't  hear her knocking while he is having computer-sex; she later comes back and goes through his waste-basket under the desk, and has to mime smelling all the crumpled kleenex.

Ps. she has a very good figure for her body-type, first shown off to J.Broadbent, in Iris.






Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 17, 2007, 06:02:49 PM


I am your huckleberry,


Nonsense, Why I'm in my prime


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 17, 2007, 06:04:08 PM
Oh wait, I get it now.  jbottle has insufficient happy memories to enable him to fend off the Cruciatus Curse. 

Was that a Harry Potter reference by any chance...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 17, 2007, 08:35:08 PM
I think it's a ligament of his imagination.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: bosox18d on July 17, 2007, 08:37:56 PM
I can't picture either lead doing Revolutionary Road.Makes me think the story is not true to the Novel.Young Hearts Crying or A Good School would make good movies if in the right hands.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 17, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
Just watched "The Last Waltz," I guess it finally caught up with me, really great.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 18, 2007, 02:24:02 AM
So,who? So who really got to you in Scorsese's trip?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 18, 2007, 10:46:01 AM
I really didn't know much about The Band at all, but I just liked the movie, the Southern guy on drums who did "The Night They Drove Ole Dixie Down" was really into the song and did a good job.  Neil Young shredding was a high point.  That Dylan felt a little uncomfortable with an electric guitar or content to let Robertson handle the hard parts was kind of surprising.  I think Marty added a lot by using multiple cameras and cutting between the players.  I guess it was 1978, and there's a sort of melancholy about the end of the band that hangs over the movie as well, and the sort of generation of white guys of the Vietnam/Hippie generation who had grown up admiring the blues, especially when you consider that Soft Rock, Disco and then Punk and New Wave and Metal were all coming or had arrived in some early stages that sort of represent a break from the tradition of rock coming directly from a blues tradition.  They are just a great live band, obviously, and I enjoyed hearing them play.  Van Morrison sounded great.  Dr. John in his pink tie who I'm not familiar with was pretty funny.  I think the highlights were Neil Young sort of holding back on shredding when Robertson was pretty aggressively wailing away almost competitively it seemed, as he was all warmed up, and then Neil just crushes on the guitar at the end, really cool.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 18, 2007, 11:48:35 AM
Little Children wasn't too bad as a basic Bovary-esque tale of suburbia, though I think the voiceover was sometimes intrusive and a bit too literary in places where the director needed to just do good visual storytelling, i.e. make a movie.  Still, some fine acting, not only from the A listers, but also the guy who played the pervert bringing some compelling nuances to his character.  Some scenes were played for sly humor and succeeded, such as the shots where Jennifer Connelly is getting suspicious and examining Winslet's painted toes under the dining table or questioning him in bed, or the massive pool evacuation when the pervert shows up for a swim -- reminiscent of a beach scene in Jaws. 

Some suspension of disbelief required when the Prom King guy describes his wife as beautiful and Winslet as more plain, as he puzzles over his attraction.  Jesus, buddy, did you just have an aneurysm?  Winslet is an earthly incarnation of Venus and who would even think of questioning the thickness of her eyebrows or solidity of her hips?  In another scene, he tells her "beauty is overrated" in a way that implies that his wife is beautiful but Winslet is not.  First of all, who says this to their paramour, unless there are issues of severe retardation in play?  Moreover, who would say this to Kate Winslet?  Geez Louise, Connelly is a bland and sexless stick figure next to Winslet.  (rant continues for several paragraphs...writer abandons all semblance of objectivity regarding Winslet....)

The real problem with the film is that the affair just isn't set up in a credible fashion (no matter what your perspective is on the relative charms of the two women).  Winslet's alienation from Mr. Masturbo makes obvious sense, but what precisely is the problem with Prom King's wife that sets him on a course of infidelity?  Aside from a brief allusion to the child sleeping in their bed (which seems temporary, and something easily worked around -- the house is equipped with a shower, and other rooms with closable doors and soft furniture), it's hard to get a real sense of where Connelly is falling short beyond the fact that she holds down a job and has a reasonable expectation that her husband, after completing law school, might want to get it in gear and pass the bar exam.  This does not seem to me the stuff of which emasculation is made, but maybe young guys just aren't as tough as they used to be.  The overall effect, for this viewer, was to eventually see the Prom King as a whiny idiot, and then call into question Winslet's judgment --- but then, the final resolution in the film does address this in a sort of oblique and confusing way.

 

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 18, 2007, 01:09:24 PM
Excellent review, barton!  That is what I saw, mentally as well as visually but really could not cope with describing it because it took a while to define the threads of the themes (which may develop) which are defined from Winslet's view point. I think, I've had friends like her, at least in the perspective of not believing in frosting the cake. They have complete self confidence.

So although I came to the same conclusion, who says things like that to their "paramour"(?), maybe it is a guy who is caught up in his imminent  orgasm, while Winslet has just started to ponder the inbuilt competition in their particular situation and like most women can not leave the subject along. I thought it a neat way to "physically demonstrate" the difference in female think from male think, other than doesn't everybody really crave the experience of making out on top of a washing machine(or was it the dryer?)or in a hot stiffling attic?  But I have no doubt that Wilson(the actor) is also carrying the "luna" that casting directors and particular directors want when deciding their film leads; if they want to cut the crap ( I mean, I am a person who clocked the scenes of: 8 and 1/2 to determine how the point is put across by an obviously visualist director when one can not claim to understand all the emphatics of the Italian language).

Wilson is carrying his Angels in America "shadow"; who can shake that after being mothered by a determined Meryl Streep?

In any other circumstance Jennifer would have been,pardon the pun,
stiff competition, which is why I sent a picture or a link to it(for dzimas)  of how Connelly does Mulholland Falls. She's not too bad on the eyebrows herself.  Not to mention one of the most under-rated bosoms in Lalaland because they are usually suppressed or tucked out of the way so she can do a role like Mrs. Nash in:A Beautiful Mind; but when somebody wants a hooker to rile up John Malkovich, Jennifer's bustline is suddenly given moral support and at least some part of the audience is thinking where has this been all along?

The problem really is the ruse of the child in the bed, as you said she works for a living; and there is the balance of what you referred to as "reasonable expectation" on her part and how is dad doing as a house-parent and where.  I agree, "the massive pool evacuation " was probably the best shot  in the entire film, from a cinematographer's point of view.
It was even underscored in the line of dialogue given the pervert who emerges in his underwater gear.

That personality having been been one of those theme threads from the beginning,although Winslet didn't know much about it at all; but the persistent pursuit and harrassment of him by the former cop with too much time on his hands is the development out of Winslet's mere summation that the townswomen in the children's park are judgmental nobodies who are mental midgets in comparison to her own observations.

I think,you do have to in the end question Winslet's character's motivations unless you realize there really weren't any other than the obvious which women preferably suppress from the rational mind and then rationalize after the fact. It's just the way we are. Which is probably why, unlike yourself, I never recall the resolution in a film,except in an oblique and fuzzy way. That always allows me to do it again and see the  thing from other angles. Let's me know if I've grown.
 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 18, 2007, 09:28:25 PM
Hey, has anyone heard when there's a new torture porn movie coming out, big fan of the GENRE?  Thanks in advance.

"A Portrait Torn" has just been greenlighted by Fox Searchlight.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 18, 2007, 10:46:39 PM
Congratulations, jbottle, for being in the forefront current events-wise.  One of the teaser articles on MSN tonight is about torture porn -- something I hadn't heard in that term until a couple of days ago, thanks to you. 

http://movies.msn.com/movies/torture?GT1=7701


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 12:04:36 AM
You're welcome.  Not all filmgoers--or those who didn't see the films of which they speak--need sully themselves in exposure to the genre to understand that Roland Joffe makes ART TORTURE PORN.  I think I made that clear with my rant, and I'll not see "Captivity," having successfully scared myself off with rumination and conjecture.  For me, the psychological intervention of irony, hyperbole, jest, and whimsy, are the first defense to certain degredation and ordinary prurience.  I'm proud that we can live in a society where Eddie Murphy can dress up in a fat suit and tens of millions and where Roland Joffe can make a torture porn art film that meets with barely a ticket torn, but I'm not so uncynical to think that my assertion that the debasement of the cineplex will be an actual if not seemingly ordinary and safe (read "RV"), will be a near certainty as horror audiences seem the only reliable crowd other than those that want to watch Martin Lawrence play fat-suit, or someone buddy cop with Jackie Chan.  "Suspense/Comedy" has a decent run, I guess, and so will TORTURE PORN, lets just hope we can fight them in the Cineplex so we don't have to fight them in Europe.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 19, 2007, 12:18:42 AM
How was Ron Wood?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 19, 2007, 12:52:07 AM
Unfortunately, Scorsese wasn't able to do for The Blues what he did for The Band. His multi-part series for PBS was a bit of a dud, I thought, but the Last Waltz concert of The Band has to be the finest concert movie ever done.  Although The Talking Heads' Stop Making Sense is a close second in my mind.  I thought Demme also did a nice job with Neil Young in Heart of Gold. The best concert movie that never was has to be the Rolling Stones' Gimme Shelter, as the Hell's Angels upstaged the Stones.  Fascinating to watch just the same.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 19, 2007, 12:53:10 AM
As for favorite Scorsese movies, Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore stands out in my mind.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 19, 2007, 09:50:50 AM
Madupont --  I like your notion of not paying attention to endings, playing it out in one's mind in various scenarios.   I had that open-ended feeling from the vigilante guy (Noah Emmerich? ), who experiences the heart-softening at the end.  You can picture him becoming a good friend to the "pervert" in later life.  All the major characters seem to have grown, most out of a sort of adolescence.  This emergence is made direct and physical, of course, with Wilson's character, who has to crash on a skateboard in order to realize he doesn't have to regress to his teenage years to find meaning in life. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 11:27:43 AM
nytperdu:  Yeah, I thought maybe Dylan was too stoned or something and couldn't remember the song; Robertson kind of switches gears pretty easily into something Dylan knows at least how to sing, and so it wasn't too much of a problem but an interesting moment.  It has to be hard to come into a situation where the other players are drenched in sweat and feeling it, and you come in cold expected to start jamming.  Neil Young warmed up rather quickly once he saw Robertson seemingly or momentarily showing him up on guitar.  I'm sure the competition if any was fun and genial, but it looked like Young was sort of laying back and waiting for his moment.  When Young comes back on stage at the end he is visibly plastered and wild-eyed, another funny moment.  Robertson comes off as thoughtful, funny, whimsical and remarkably nice. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 11:43:07 AM
"Sunshine" is getting the slowly roller treatment trying to generate some buzz I guess by coming out in about 10 theaters this weekend, which means LA, NY, and ???  The review I read was positive saying that it started out strong angling at "2001" but then devolved into an alienesque (pardon) actioner.  That sounds right up my alley despite my disappointment at them ripping my idea from the NYTFF (joke).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 19, 2007, 12:27:30 PM
Hey, you know I thought of your "Sundiver" (IIRC the title) when I saw the ad for Sunshine somewhere.   The greatest films are always the ones they don't make.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 12:52:18 PM
"Sundive," e.g., a "solar incursion," once thought impossible.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 12:57:25 PM
http://www.tmz.com/photos/celebs-who-balloon/73493/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 19, 2007, 01:14:11 PM
And here I was -- despite the TMZ.com -- expecting to see various celebrities going up, up and away in pretty, colorful, maybe stripey balloon.  Or their baskets, anyway.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 19, 2007, 01:22:40 PM
Looks like Kilmer maybe should consider a mission to Mars, where gravity is only 4/10 of Earth's.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 02:23:08 PM
He looks absolutely regal if you ask me--he knows he's somewhere on the b-list in case the top ten drop the script, he knows that could mean straight to video, but hey, if they wanted an A-lister maybe he would start working out.

I mean "i.e." instead of "e.g.," when talking about "Sundive."  Kilmer would've been great in the role, maybe better than Duchovny.  He already shot Mars the bird, why not go at the solar system's top dog?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 19, 2007, 03:15:34 PM
barton,re:#1170

Yeah, wasn't that gross (as Winslet wisely decides to leave the park); I kind of had the suspicion that it  had not exactly been decided how to deal with the pervert coming to a closure on that part of the script involving pervert/vigilante interaction, but it takes/makes time to explain why Wilson never made it to the park ,and stood Winslet up, when she could have been the heroine in peril like Mary Pickford.

According to character, of course, have you ever noticed that Winslet does not play "anxiety" if she can help it. As usual, her character was much too in control for that kind of weakness when everybody can see she is the quintessential liberated feminist who doesn't mind learning something from an experience or having an experience?

Now if only some of the dual personalities who post in some other unmentioned forums could get the knack "of not having to crash on a skateboard in order to realize they  don't have to regress to  teenage years to find meaning in life."  But, I suppose we could just chalk it up to Wilson's regained exuberance; what wonders, just more than a little sex can do for these dreary personality disorders that needs competitive edge to reassert their--well, I imagine it is like  the balloon photos, n'est ce pas?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 19, 2007, 03:16:55 PM
And here I was -- despite the TMZ.com -- expecting to see various celebrities going up, up and away in pretty, colorful, maybe stripey balloon.  Or their baskets, anyway.

Me,too! That would at least keep the illusion going.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 19, 2007, 03:35:35 PM
jbottle,

That was obviously Dylan's Hasidic phase, when he got married and procreated although that happened a bit earlier than the film I think but does a lot to explain why he didn't want two money-maker films opening at once. Ah, too bad our youth can not last.

Or, as the mommy of the movie star I too rashly talked about once said, when hearing her daughter was the object of a Clapton arrangement made for a date with the youngster in her television prime time who turned Eric's proposition down flat, "Are you nuts, when I was your age, I would have given anything to go out with Eric Clapton!"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 19, 2007, 05:05:45 PM
I think it may have been one of Dylan's many "too high" or "anxiety-ridden" or "alcoholic" phases.  He looked pretty confused rather than "hasidic."



Title: Beyond the Sea
Post by: Dzimas on July 20, 2007, 01:13:20 AM
I didn't think that Spacey's Beyond the Sea was all bad.  I watched part of it last night on the tele.  Great cast and some fun singing and dancing numbers, if you like that sort of thing.  Not as good as Topsy Turvy, but better than Moulin Rouge.   I had to explain to my daughter who Bobby Darin was.  She loved the music.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on July 20, 2007, 09:02:46 AM
Che with Benicio Del Toro!  Same director as with Traffic to be filmed entirely in Spanish, no less.  Julia Ormand will co-star. 
Thinking someone else would have been more suitable there, but who?!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 20, 2007, 09:05:08 AM
Che with Benicio Del Toro!  Same director as with Traffic to be filmed entirely in Spanish, no less.  Julia Ormand will co-star. 
Thinking someone else would have been more suitable there, but who?!
Well, who is Ormond playing?  Castro?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on July 20, 2007, 09:06:47 AM



:D :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 20, 2007, 09:34:17 AM
I was just posting some medical info from the UK to a poster who would like to import  help and I decided to skip the third of three small digest articles on what's wrong with this idea because the writer,having been given a big enough picture of a very handsome Che which was clear enough and large enough that you could definitely identify that it was Che, felt confident enough to assume that the Brits wouldn't really like Che anyway so why not disparage him again.

So we get pro and con movies. Is this all Spanish version (from where?) all pro or is it a con?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 20, 2007, 09:36:46 AM
Con, I hope.  Guevara, despite his poster glorification in the 60s, and fine singing in Evita, was a murderous bastard.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 20, 2007, 10:55:48 AM
Who is Julia Ormond?

Wasn't she the ingenue from like 1994 who never was good in anything and never made a good movie?

You would think that if it's Sodergergh directing that it would be a Penelope Cruz vs. Salma Hayek for the lead, but maybe they are thinking outside the box by going with a onceknown/unknown and are shooting for a flat uncharismatic demeanor and low pay.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Eva on July 20, 2007, 11:08:57 AM


Wasn't she the ingenue from like 1994 who never was good in anything and never made a good movie?

You would think that if it's Sodergergh directing that it would be a Penelope Cruz vs. Salma Hayek for the lead, but maybe they are thinking outside the box by going with a onceknown/unknown and are shooting for a flat uncharismatic demeanor and low pay.

So, they were also considering Winona?









*joke*


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 20, 2007, 11:29:05 AM
Oil is the one with the "hots" for Winona.

Darghis liked "Sunshine" a lot and seemed to enjoy the movies transition from calm to calamity, maybe a few other endorsements and some reasonable numbers could propel the film into 2K theaters or so.....the winner potentially could be Cilian Murphy, who is a summer mini-blockbuster away from joining the top ranks.  He seems capable of almost anything and has already worked on a blockbuster ("Batman Returns"), a reasonably fun short-shoot B-movieish Plane Thriller with Wes Craven, and a character film for presumbably no money playing a transvestite for often brilliant Neil Jordan.  He seems to have a pretty good handle on that "career" thing, and with Danny Boyle (resurrecting himself with "28 Days"), has done work with phenomenally talented directors in a short period of time.  Well done.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 20, 2007, 11:33:37 AM
...and a character film for presumbably no money playing a transvestite for often brilliant Neil Jordan. 

I count Murphy's performance in "Breakfast On Pluto" among the finest I've ever seen, along with Theron in "Monster" and Macy in "Fargo".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 20, 2007, 12:03:31 PM
He's really good, and it's not necessarily the type of thing a no-risk management style might contemplate but he's clearly too smart or has people that understand that he would at worst aquit himself well enough and be protected by an actor's director, Jordan, but then he actually turns it into a positive for his career.  I would say "I admire his courage" but after all we are talking about "acting" (I always think of the Mr. Show awards send up where best actress says "It's been such a bold, brave year for us as ac-tors...), I guess what I admire is his resistance to taking the path of least resistance because it's more interesting than playing the you would think many routine bad-guy parts he must get offered for a lot of dough. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 20, 2007, 12:24:41 PM
You don't think Murphy is secretly looking for his own personal  Die Hard franchise flick and hopes this may be the one?  Picture this..... Sunshine 2:  Walking on Sunshine; or Sunshine 3:  Sunshine on My Shoulder; or, or....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 20, 2007, 12:38:16 PM
Yeah, I checked the soundtrack but it's the same electronica guy that Boyle worked with on Trainspotting so I don't think that the contemporary songs are in there.  If it had to be set in the future, why not have a "communopod" that was left orbiting Venus for the next crew with a mix-disc in there, of course I would be aiming more for "The Core" than "2001," so any way that I could get "Black Hole Sun" in there would work, you could even find a dead crewman's IPod still operable, and have the stoner crew member swipe it and as he fires up and plays a song we montage through Peter Saarsgard making zero-gravity love to Natasha Henstridge, cut to Mandy Patankin brooding, etc.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 20, 2007, 01:46:05 PM
Who is Julia Ormond?

Wasn't she the ingenue from like 1994 who never was good in anything and never made a good movie?

You would think that if it's Sodergergh directing that it would be a Penelope Cruz vs. Salma Hayek for the lead, but maybe they are thinking outside the box by going with a onceknown/unknown and are shooting for a flat uncharismatic demeanor and low pay.
I recall her as the pretty trophy the boys competed for in Legends of the Fall, and as completely sucking in the remake of Sabrina - but then, I recall everyone sucking in the remake of Sabrina, my least favorite Billy Wilder movie - and enfusing a sense of ennui into Smila's Sense of Snow, at which point she dropped off of my radar screen.

Oh, she sucked in some retelling of the Camelot story too.

Ormond is listed on IMDb as playing American Actress/Journalist Lisa Howard, by the way, making Cruz and Hayek perhaps less than suitable.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 20, 2007, 01:54:49 PM
Oh, yeah, I liked "Smilla's Sense of Snow," maybe for, was it Gabriel Byrne?  She wasn't bad in that and then I never saw the one with Richard Gere as Lancelot (I think).  That sure was a dud though judging from what I remember of the critical and box-office indifference it generated.

But if you think Smilla had a sense of snow...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000838/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 20, 2007, 02:40:54 PM
But if you think Smilla had a sense of snow...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000838/

Nice!!

http://imdb.com/title/tt0114168/

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 20, 2007, 03:21:30 PM
barton,re:#1188

I'm more than a little behind with Evita(the show) as it played Broadway and/or the movie with Madonna, I think? but are you telling me that Banderas was the singing Che?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 20, 2007, 03:32:18 PM
I really didn't know much about The Band at all, but I just liked the movie, the Southern guy on drums who did "The Night They Drove Ole Dixie Down" was really into the song and did a good job.  Neil Young shredding was a high point.  That Dylan felt a little uncomfortable with an electric guitar or content to let Robertson handle the hard parts was kind of surprising.  I think Marty added a lot by using multiple cameras and cutting between the players.  I guess it was 1978, and there's a sort of melancholy about the end of the band that hangs over the movie as well, and the sort of generation of white guys of the Vietnam/Hippie generation who had grown up admiring the blues, especially when you consider that Soft Rock, Disco and then Punk and New Wave and Metal were all coming or had arrived in some early stages that sort of represent a break from the tradition of rock coming directly from a blues tradition.  They are just a great live band, obviously, and I enjoyed hearing them play.  Van Morrison sounded great.  Dr. John in his pink tie who I'm not familiar with was pretty funny.  I think the highlights were Neil Young sort of holding back on shredding when Robertson was pretty aggressively wailing away almost competitively it seemed, as he was all warmed up, and then Neil just crushes on the guitar at the end, really cool.

I was going to college in San Francisco at the time the Last Waltz was filmed.  I didn;t make the show, but I remember the release of ther movie very well.  Those are great memories.  Times have really changed...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 20, 2007, 03:52:43 PM

I can't recall the exact dates anymore and I'm too lazy to look it up, but Dylan was not far removed from moving into his first "Christian" phase around this time.  I think Dylan just liked freaking people out -- sort of like Andy Kaufman in that way...

The Last Waltz though was not about Bob Dylan any more than it was about Neil Young or any of the other myriad of special "guests" that were there.  The relationship with Dylan would have been slightly more poignant--given that he was essentially responsible for giving the boys their big break when Dylan decided to shock the world by "going electric" back in the 60s.  They would clearly have shown deference to him (as you would an elder statesman in any profession)--but there could be no mistaking that while Dylan was a bigger "star" and arguably a more talented “artist,”  Robertson was the professional musician and Dylan’s superior as a guitarist.

But make no mistake, this movie was about The Band and the end of an era.  The feel of the "sixties" was still hanging on through much of the seventies, but it was clearly beginning to come to an end by 78.   Even Country Joe McDonald had cut his hair and was harping "bring back the 60s" by this time.

It was a beautiful and melancholy walk down memory lane for "one last dance with the boys."


Here's a photo of Robbie with Bob Dylan in 1965.
http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/dylan_robbie_levon_1965.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 20, 2007, 03:53:45 PM
and on stage together .. same tour

http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/chicago65_bd_rr.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 20, 2007, 03:55:13 PM
maybe The Last Waltz...should have been...


http://theband.hiof.no/band_pictures/bd_rr_74th_AA.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 20, 2007, 07:00:47 PM
Taking a "Powder" got me looking at where are they now, Lance Henrikson, looks like he's been working with director Roel Rene, if that's not a pseudonym, and in one STV with the Seagal, please note the "sub" genre.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0914364/

http://imdb.com/title/tt1014801/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 21, 2007, 06:33:15 AM
I assume the Benicio del Toro version of Che will be a more politically charged one.  I loved Motorcycle Diaries, and I hear Walter Salles is slated to do On the Road.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 21, 2007, 06:34:38 AM
Gael Garcia Bernal is a wonderful actor.  I enjoyed his multiple roles in Bad Education.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 21, 2007, 10:39:19 AM
Maddy -- I just meant the character of Che, in Evita, was nicer than life.  I think Mandy Patinkin sang the role on stage.





Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 21, 2007, 10:47:18 AM
I assume the Benicio del Toro version of Che will be a more politically charged one.  I loved Motorcycle Diaries, and I hear Walter Salles is slated to do On the Road.


dzimas, I note they changed directors as they are wont to do and, I am asking you, can you really see Gordon Levitt in a beard as Alan Ginsberg?  He's a fine young actor but.... Harnett as Kerouac (just about as  good at conveying"dumb", and Owen the big blond will steal the show as Neal Cassidy and the whole thing will crash and burn within a couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 21, 2007, 10:54:50 AM
barton,

Mandy Patinkin is always nicer than life. I mean, Evita, the musical. She would have adored it.

Don't mind me, I woke up with a cold this morning; and polar bears and penguins on the cover of the New Yorker, depicting them playing on a suburban lawn in the spray of an opened fire hydrant. I guess the implication was--don't worry, maybe they will all wash down here when the water level rises from the melting ice pack. And then! we can all keep them in an air-conditioned zoo? 

I've just had two days of Spring temperatures so I'm feeling off my oats without a doubt. Aspirin for breakfast is not a good way to start the day.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 21, 2007, 11:11:51 AM
I don't think they've announced the cast for On the Road yet, maddie, just some persons speculating on the cast at IMDB, but I may be wrong.  Cassidy was a big brawny guy.  Hard to imagine Owen Wilson in that role.  That would mean Ben Stiller as Dean Moriarty.  Just can't see it.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 21, 2007, 02:09:05 PM
I'd say Cassidy and Kerouac were about evenly matched; Jack played football for Columbia U. So I know what you mean about their speculative wishes; which leads to the question why would Salles even want to do a fictive bio of them as a group?  Try as I might, I wrack my memory-bank for tangent aspects that might spark a story-board,Burroughs getting off of a homicide charge in Mexico, does that stimulate a take off point? Kerouac hallucinating at Big Sur about the winged bird-like beings of Mexican Indian mythology? Jack picking cotton along the railroad tracks? Wow, if he wasn't too old for that vignette, they could cast my old standby George Clonney.

On their production page, they dropped a mention of director not yet selected.

But, I do know who they ought contact, before he gets much older, that is the only one left around who could fill in the details, an ex-Columbia grad who lives up on Sugar Hill. Having said that I realized why they thought they wouldn't have to pay to the estates of the deceased,as I can't think of a one of them who is left alive anymore.  I believe Corso was the last,within six months before 9/11 and he hadn't really changed any or his habits the last time we talked.

Well, I guess whomever would film it would have to think of it as "group",otherwise there would be no action and no cast for that matter. I merely have to think back about that awful production of The Subterraneans, where Mardou Fox lost her color although Gerry Mulligan's Quartet played as they were, to become ill; although I did get to hang out with the performance artists, i.e. musicians, for a few more of their gigs after they had done the theme music for the film,I Don't Want To Die. Susan Haworth wasn't it, as the first woman who would have to go the electric chair according to California law?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 21, 2007, 03:28:36 PM
It was Coppola who approached Salles to do the film after being wowed over by Motorcycle Diaries.  Coppola has held the screen rights to On the Road for some time.  Salles interest in the movie would probably be the same as that which drove him to do Motorcycle Diaries, a road movies involving an icon, in this case a literary icon.  Kerouac has huge international appeal. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 21, 2007, 06:19:21 PM
Which means that Coppola will take care of the adaptation of Kerouac's long winding road? shall we say.  I vaguely remember hearing something about only surviving somewhat legal distant heir selling the rights, some years ago, not that long ago actually, it was in the nytimes.

I'll now ask the question that is so often asked me. Did you read that book?

I was young enough to have the stamina to do so back then but I certainly wouldn't give it a go for a second time round. But watch out, someone will surely suggest it.

" a road movies involving an icon" replete with classic cars and/or trucks.

Why would Kerouac have huge international appeal? C'mon, just off the top of your head.  The finest thing the man ever did was translate the Sutras. And his second worthwhile road trip was to go overseas and discover his roots in Brittany.  Every one of his books are tough sledding.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 22, 2007, 12:59:11 AM
The book is a celebration of freedom, easily identifiable to most people.  I loved the book, although I liked Dharma Bums better.  The book has been translated into so many languages, including Russian and Lithuanian.  It captured a bygone spirit of a group of people who still had a "beat" while all the others around them seemed dead.  Kerouac's style of writing captures the be-bop spirit of the time, with the obvious homages to the jazz era.  When I said big and brawny, maddie, I would emphasize the brawny.  Don't forget football players were a lot smaller then.  Kerouac only went to Columbia for one year, on an athletic scholarship, before dropping out and hitting the road.  He found his soulmate in Neal Cassady (Dean Moriarty).  I had transposed the names earlier.  I had forgotten that Kerouac went by Sal Paradise in the novel.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 22, 2007, 01:24:34 AM
The Lord, I guess, makes son of a bitches one at a time.  I guess he puts a bit of care into it.  I knew I was one the minute I left the envelope.  I really, in a really sense, didn't know it at the time but I figured they were against me...and honestly, I couldn't blame 'em.....they shure enough found out that I had a bad bead on anyhing coming across, and to be honest, I guess they were there to screw me...now, I can live by my wits, but if'n you get the general electorate against you it's a matter of picking sides...

...I ended up picking the side without fire, but then, there I go tellin' a story...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 22, 2007, 01:37:49 AM
I start talking in "a voice" again, unfortunately, "we" "fucking do that..."

So that screenplay where you are thinking about somebody who is an amusing stop on the highway, where the Yankee Wit takes hold, don't worry so much, it's not funny, and when the time is right we will scorch the earth and burn the remainder:  Good luck "Mitt Romney," I hope your "Southern Strategy" includes the South.  Later, Dude.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 02:51:59 AM
Dzimas says,

" I liked Dharma Bums better" So did I, but that was because I knew more of the characters in it.
(For instance, I kept spelling Robert Whelan, Whalen because of Philip Whalen.)

"It captured a bygone spirit of a group of people who still had a "beat" "   

Somehow, I just knew you were going to talk about music when you said that. (sigh) It had nothing to do with our "beat" . Kerouac coined the word signifying "Beatific" (obviously including how they had got that way by sometimes getting beaten down. You have to remember that he was a French Canadian Catholic with a rosary hanging over his bed because of his mother with whom he spent the better part of his life when he wasn't on the road and particularly the last part of his life.

Although he hung out at the back of the Five Spot, which was a very small place, trying to get with it, he seldom was.  It wasn't the kind of a place where he could be relaxed, feel at home, it was a club of all professional musicians and he was brought there in the hopes that he might get a glimmer of another part of culture to which he was definitely not attuned. Whether or not he ever encountered the equally naughty,weird, habitue Larry Rivers, who lived not far away so that this was his neighbourhood bar, is another matter. Perhaps he hoped to, and perhaps not. Kerouac was brought there, carefully guided by the one person he trusted to also take him uptown to the clubs in Harlem, a kid who was a real gentleman, very sophisticated, terribly well educated at Columbia, took all his degrees, taught, and published but,ready for this, wore a flannel lumberjack shirt almost always and because Jack, being Canadian, did.             Thus:

"Kerouac's style of writing captures the be-bop spirit of the time, "      Depends what time you got?

Charlie "Bird" Parker was already dead but I realize this is a rift that starts by the early Fifties, even the late Forties, and therefore people like Dizzie Gillespie were still playing Bop, be-bop in the late Fifties when others had moved on, younger people, not such younger people, Max Roach for instance was the kind of guy who always looked about the same age, in fact, he wrote in to the nytimes.com blog just in the last few weeks,well perhaps a little longer because it was on the best jazz festivals and everybody was having their say at what they thought was.You could have knocked be over with a feather because I didn't know he was around. (and don't give me that business that is everyone's favorite cliche, because it would be idiotic to use a name you could get capped for borrowing; and I mean that in the nicest way).

What I'm saying is that music had changed before Kerouac caught up with it.  Like many of us, he was just a little behind the beat. And of course this was true of all his white friends. They may have been Beat but they weren't down.

http://www.mcclure-manzarek.com/deadbeats.html


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 22, 2007, 11:52:55 AM
Actually, the reference to "beat" referred to heartbeat (sigh).  But, the style of writing very definitely tried to capture the rhythms of the music of the day.  John Clellon Holmes took it one step further in Horn. As for OTR, I think Keruoac first started the book back in the 40s, and it went through enumerable drafts before the famous scroll version in 1951, which would have made him pretty hip to the jazz scene. Charlie Parker was still around.  The book itself wasn't published until 57.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 12:38:18 PM
I was there,and I say,"Not".  John Clellon Holmes book showed up among my reference books when I moved in about 1980, I don't know who I got it from, but I do know it was a bunch of hype from a music reviewer's point of view when he had the opportunity to sell a book instead of a periodical column, at a point in time when that was the opportunist thing to do, and written from the aspect that these people that are popping up everywhere are "groovy".(although you may find photographs of the person whom I previously mentioned, although I'm really not sure because I haven't see the book since.)

I warn anybody up front, if you start looking up this book, you may encounter information about a well known pornographic film star who was not the same John Holmes.

JCH had no idea what Keruoac said about "beatific". When you use the word "beat" as if referred to heartbeat, you might as well have been sitting on the floor in the studio with Martha Graham (who used that term)as I was. "Beat", as a label identifying people, was a part of that co-opting process of Madison avenue. It sells things, including books; although I must say that I already had the highest respect for Malcolm Cowley who was the editor of this long drawn out process with notes jotted down in the Forties and taking that long to be pulled together;but,Jesus, man, it was my mentor who gave Ginsberg the reading at the Six Gallery at which Kerouac passed the wine jug. Not exactly the last supper. While accompanying the end lines by beating on a wooden box. Jack was not a remarkable guy who discovered that his hero was "beat" down when the main character of his novel deserted him in Mexico when Kerouac was sick. That's on the road. The musicians did not consider him pretty hip to the jazz scene. Yardbird was still around up to '55 because his patroness,Baroness Panonica Rothschild took care of him over in Jersey.  After that she had others to care for and would regularly show up at the end of the night outside the Five Spot ( believe me, I was there watching) in the Rolls with the motor running, because it was her habit to make the rounds of the clubs, I used to see her fall off her chair at the Village Gate and then the chauffeur would take her on to pick up her proteges who could hang out, and crash, or fix up, or practice, what ever they wanted because Baroness Panonica de Koenigswarter-Rothschild was an English aristocrat with quite a pad in New Jersey. Horace Silver who is just about my favorite pianist from that era, when we did listen to him at the Five Spot, composed  NICA'S DREAM,at this period of time, which is what I meant by the music had moved on and was now very "Modern"; that piece was dedicated to her.

I realize you are talking about the legend but get "real" because there is the reality.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 22, 2007, 02:14:00 PM
Some jerk has been mailing me videos of the front of my apartment building.  Then he sent me one of the front of my family home.  Then, his apartment door!  Qu'est-ce que la merde??

Apparently, this guy is mad at me because of me getting him into trouble when I was six.  That, plus he's Algerian and he's got this whole victim thing going what with that massacre in the Seine River back in 1961, and his parents being killed and all.  I don't know.  You think he'd be over it.  Like, je ne comprends pas!

And then he's all, like, I didn't send you any video, man.  What, are you kidding me?  Ne me moquez pas!

You know, I just want to come home, watch some tube, have a nice meal with Juliette Binoche, faire la createur avec les deux dos, avoir la petit mort, the whole 8.63 metres.




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 22, 2007, 02:58:55 PM
Maddie, I wasn't there but I have read quite a bit of the Beats and on the Beats.  You missed the boat considerably on the writing of On the Road, so it strikes me that your memory is a bit vague in regard to the events.  One of the most enjoyable books I read on that generation was Joyce Johnson's Minor Characters, as she showed just how vulnerable Kerouac was.  The success of On the Road in the 60s was more a curse than a blessing for Kerouac, who disowned the cult following that sprang up around him.  Of course, Jack was into the whole Buddhism thing at one point, which he expresses beautifully in Dharma Bums through Japhy Ryder, a.ka. Gary Snyder, but in the end he seemed to wallow in his self-inflicted misery. 

I was first drawn to him while living in Lowell, reading Town and the City, which was very much in the Thomas Wolfe vein.  Kerouac didn't find his voice until he loaded himself up with benzedrine and churned out the final version of On the Road over a three-week period on one continuous scroll, which sold for a cool $2.4 million at the last auction.  To me, he was hit and miss.  Dharma Bums remains my favorite, although I like the continuation of the story in Desolation Angels.  Tom Wolf summed up his encounter with Kerouac when the Merry Pranksters came to New York as one of disappointment, as Kerouac would have nothing to do with them, despite having Cassady along for the ride.  One of the many sad ironies is that an old warehouse in Lowell, which was one of Kerouac's favorites haunts, was razed and a memorial park honoring him put in its place.  Seems they should have left the late 19th century warehouse, but apparently it blocked the views from the refurbished Boott Mill, which had been turned into upscale condominiums.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: peloux on July 22, 2007, 03:47:33 PM

>>>>>You know, I just want to come home, watch some tube, have a nice meal with Juliette Binoche, faire la createur avec les deux dos, avoir la petit mort, the whole 8.63 metres.

This movie recently aired on one of the Encore channels. I'd already seen it but skimmed through to check out a few scenes. I detest pan-and-scan and here's a good reason why. The final school-front scene did not show all that it was necessary to see because the left side of the screen was cut off. Merde! I suppose there will always be people in the world who cannot stand black and white, subtitles, and must have the entire screen filled up with movie in order to enjoy. But, viewer beware, you might be missing something!




Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 06:49:05 PM
dzimas re:#1222

Okay, so I know Gary Snyder, over many years since back then probably seeing him more in the Seventies than in the Sixties, I swap you that on Lowell. Because you are  correct about the warehouse irony; this does not mean I'm calling off the respect that I have for Snyder for having left and going to the monastery at Daitokoji to sit through the Vietnam War' and for any number of valuable things like being anti-nuclear and being able to communicate,etc.

Also all those things you say about Jack Kerouac are true as I've heard that out of other people. (and some worse)

Just the same, I brought something for you, to make up the difference of opinion. Here is the very real and actual Be-Bop Bentley. I relistened to the music today, and you know Horace Silver included an end note in his  Nica's Dream that he just swipes though from the theme of Tangerine. Some of the music of the time was not all that great. They were trying to compose something other than what they had been playing for the early part of their lives. But I figure this way, you get to enjoy your music and I have my memories too.

The Be-bop Bentley
 
http://tinyurl.com/35ef7e







Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 06:57:47 PM
barton and peloux, Think! What is the film, with Binoche opposite Jeremy Irons cheating on his wife Miranda Redgrave, where  Leslie Caron had dinner with them because she is Juliette Binoche's mother?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Lhoffman on July 22, 2007, 07:16:49 PM
"I know but I'm not telling.....hee hee....."








 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D




"Damage"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 23, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
Peloux -- re

"The final school-front scene did not show all that it was necessary to see because the left side of the screen was cut off...."

Apparently that was the case for this DVD version, because whatever was "necessary to see" was definitely missing.  All I saw was a school front while having this mild expectation that I might see something of significance.   Mais non!  Tiens!  Qu'est-ce que on peut faire?

Maddy -- see Cache.  I want others to suffer as I have.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 23, 2007, 09:49:26 AM
Was that the name of film? Or, were you indicating a place that I should look into?  I missed something. Obviously.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 23, 2007, 10:05:39 AM
The film is titled Cache (sorry I can't do an acute accent on the e).

http://imdb.com/title/tt0387898/



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 10:18:43 AM
MADUPONT,LADY OF THE PERPETUAL KNOWLEDGE (but not always)

Here you are:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104237/



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 23, 2007, 10:20:16 AM
I don't even try to do accents.Left that behind on my manual typewriter. After seeing the botch that was illegible over at nytimes. I prefer to take for granted that people understand where those diacritical marks are placed, since they have a  general familiarity with one or two other languages.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 23, 2007, 10:24:43 AM
MADUPONT,LADY OF THE PERPETUAL KNOWLEDGE (but not always)

Here you are:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104237/




Thanks,martin.  I might have known Louis Malle(makes great films) and David Hare(writes great screen-plays of his plays for the theatre).

I just left a question for you over in the voting both, hoping you would state your own choice; but, what I asked about, was it you who mentioned, Antonion Munoz Molina?  He wrote<"In Her Absence". It's in paperback.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 23, 2007, 10:26:24 AM
Antonio (not Antonion or whatever slip of the dyslexic computer)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 10:35:29 AM
Look what  a K/SF  8)  keyboard I have :(only available for members with their fees up to date) if you pay now ,you get two for the same price:

ü/ é / ¿ / ^/

notice:even the little roof ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I can do it with one finger and standing on the tip of my left hand with my feet up.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 10:38:04 AM
No Maddie it wasn´t me.I don´t think I´ve ever heard about him.To me his name sounds like a Spanish singer!


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 10:39:27 AM
Does the voting forum over at the Insane Asylum still work?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 23, 2007, 11:01:32 AM
martinbeck3

That's what I was asking. No, he writes comedy. I left a review down in your den of iniquity.

I'd like to take a poll though to force all computers on the Northern continent to supply upfront cedillas,acute, grave, or what have you; or we will not allow US presidents to make trade agreements detrimental to Latin countries and sign them into law because he thinks he's cute. First thing this morning,fire up the computer, and find his ugly face revealing as the cliche always told us, think ugly thoughts and your true dispostion will show up "in your face" and his is now irrevocably MEAN; like a miser, which he is, in so far as he wants the good life for himself at the sacrifice of everybody else's.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 23, 2007, 11:07:10 AM
I have done "Damage" to my netflix queue -- I must see a film where Binoche plays a character with the last name of....

BARTON!

Still fuming that the DVD of Cache chopped off some sort of interplay between the two sons, in front of the school.  For those who have seen it (SPOILER??), I did garner that this was another one of those fixed camera long shots that was meant to indicate that this was the POV of the secret videotape maker, who was still "out there" filled with Algerian tension or whatever.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Donotremove on July 23, 2007, 12:12:22 PM
Barton, sometimes we just have to resort to phonetics, so cashe would be, cah-shay (that's not quite right but it's close.  I can't phonetically reproduce a as in ack).


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 01:00:35 PM
Barton with Binoche I´d skip the tube and the dinner.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 01:29:33 PM
MADDIE,

I do have the cedillas, regardez 

ç  ñ   ü   ¡oh! ¿what?

these are the only ones we use in Spanish except for the
ç in some surnames

All the other tricks I possess
because I´m ultra  K/SF 8)

EVERYBODY:

Speaking about movies,Saturday I went for dinner and afterwards home theater at the house of a friend that has a real excellent one ,Sony, not the guy the HT.

O.K. next time we´ll eat after the film as having drank a bloody Mary and then red wine at the table I fell  into a commatose state cum snoring,so did Carlos so we got knudged on the liver several times during the film by our corresponding wives.

The FP says the film was *¡excelente!*.It´s called THE PAINTED VEIL from a novel by Somerset Maugham (I was awake at the moment).I saw THE RAZOR´S EDGE some years ago and that was *excelente*.Next time we organize this *program*(translation?) we´ll watch the film first and eat afterwards.
I´ll never buy a HT like Carlos´because then I´d never go out and films in a real theatre are a unique experience.

Noe I feel like reading 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 23, 2007, 01:40:05 PM
*noe* is *now* when i get dislexic windows program is off.

I saw"Caché" an the cinema and I think that the camera being fixed in the two *sons* -the Arabian and the French- as they were coming out of college means that the story is not completed because whoever was doing the videos will go on.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: whiskeypriest on July 23, 2007, 01:42:39 PM
Quote
reading
You continue to use language like that and I am going to have to start levying fines against you again.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 23, 2007, 03:33:46 PM
martinbeck3
 
The Painted Veil is indeed Somerset Maugham and which do you want first, the pro view or the con. I saw it in the biggy and I used to feel as you do about movie theatres but not anymore. For something like The Queen (Helen Mirren),yes; but now films are being made "sized" for the home screen.

You know, you've got Naomi Watts playing much younger than usual. And her husband, Dr. Fane, played by Edward Norton, whose name says it all. He "Fane" would get even with her for marrying him in the first place. The film does give you a quick insight in the English middle classes of their day marrying off their daughters quickly as possible -- to have one less expense in the house and before they inadvertently become damaged goods from total ignorance about sex which you will not find out about in an English household.

Fane is marrying out of infatuation and probably the unconscious awareness, that is,at least he is aware but the bride is not, that a physician going to a tropical climate ought to have a wife as a comfort, he just neglects to mention that to her as a possible motivation, when in a situation where he will be working full-time and overtime -- because where they are going will give you a pretty good picture of China during the Cholera epidemics in the early part of the last century(you will also get a pretty good take on local Nationalist troops  when warlords compete with each other for the most power and the best pickings. You will find exactly one Chinese "Good Guy" and his side-kick, in the entire Chinese cast because that token is the necessary in "good taste").

As her parents had hoped, Naomi will find out about men of sophistication beyond her awareness and all on her own time. However, she is also a right sort, as the British say, who gets along with the French nuns excellently and throws herself into the education of orphans which prepares her to have some motivation when she has little choice but to throw herself into nursing care for the inevitably dying as well.

What you probably don't know is that the charming little side feature of British life on the colonial front, that short,somewhat overweight fellow, unkempt,who doesn't mind a snort and a snort (and keeps an affable mistress who provides insight to Naomi Watts into  how life in the colonies when under duress can not allow being a stickler for maintaining division of social classes. One must have fun at the very least and forget the other rot.) is a man right out of Robert Service poems, who can be counted on to provide his sharp perceptions in the most gentlemanly way to the doctor's wife, is Toby Jones.

Why do I bring that up, he is the competing Truman Capote against the Capote of Philip Seymour Hoffman a consumate actor.  So, what's the difference, while Hoffman is being consumate about his acting in a way you can hardly miss but excuseably so considering whom he is portraying. Toby is so really consumate an actor, that you believe he is what would have been a sod of an Englishman had he not permitted himself to be shipped out to South China, while you are as believably convinced that he is that little imp who can not help being outre when accompanied by his childhood friend Harper Lee into a writing adventure that may become his undoing at the very same time it provides him fame and adulation.

The film is: Infamous. And Sandra Bullock is a surprise as a virginal Harper Lee.  Daniel Craig should not have allowed himself to be talked into this role, although he managed it very cleverly but not carefully, since he took the role as a result of having worked with Gwyneth Paltrow in, Sylvia.   Jeff Daniels should never have been asked to compete with Chris Cooper's role as Alvin Dewey.

Okay, two film reviews for the price of one. I promised to describe, all in detail to donotremove, the latter film's contributory factors to the demise of Truman Capote but filed my notes while mistakenly cleaning my desk.

It is coming back though. Ps. do not allow the Fiery Pen to start looking for those dresses worn by Hope Davis,Mariela Agnelli, and Babe Paley; tell her they are old and out of date which does not mean they are "retro", just expensive.  Do you know that dresses at Barney's and Bergdorf's, etc. are  now $500 for a baby-doll dress of the 1960s or a Diane von Furstenburg wrap dress?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 23, 2007, 10:47:46 PM
Re Tarantino...
Quote
He's a very quirky guy and I still think the best thing he ever did was that strange duo or, The Jackson two,that included John Trovolta, and didn't Harvey Keitel do a "Cleaner" in that pic?

madupont, this is days old -- two, to be exact -- and long forgotten, but it's been bugging me, and it finally came to me.   Harvey Keitel played a cleaner in Point of No Return, the American remake of La Femme Nikita starring Bridget Fonda.  It wasn't a Tarantino product; which is not a nit that I am picking. I just knew the term "cleaner" from somewhere, and it finally came to me.

For all I know, Keitel played a cleaner twice -- in which case, never mind.

Okay, back to whatever.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 23, 2007, 11:16:33 PM
We all did "the cleaner" once in college, right?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 23, 2007, 11:41:19 PM
We all did "the cleaner" once in college, right?

Well, I wish I'd had one to take care of a few roommates.....


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 01:08:55 AM
harrie,re:#1245

Thanks, no really, thanks, it gives me something to go on, checking each one.  I liked the original version of La Femme Nikita, and liked it better on second viewing.  Have never become used to Bridget Fonda. Can not remember -- Point of No Return at all. But will check it out, since the scenes that I can still see in my head are rather unforgettable(including the fact that they have humor!) and there is only one person that I can think of who would direct something like that. So I have to check it


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 24, 2007, 10:06:45 AM
I seem to have scrubbed PoNR from my memory banks.  Just a vague memory of Fonda, none whatso of Keitel as a cleaner in that.  Perhaps his cleaner in Pulp Fiction overshadowed it, memory-wise.  Isn't there a comedy where Keitel appears briefly, spoofs his role in PF?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 24, 2007, 10:53:29 AM
Best film so far this year:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/plotsummary

anybody saw it?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: kitinkaboodle on July 24, 2007, 10:58:26 AM
Will give that a look-see, Martin.

Meanwhile:

Here's one that may stay in your memory bank.  Check out After the Wedding, albeit a tad melodramatic, it should satisfy emotionally,  most certainly when contrasted with Cache.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 24, 2007, 12:19:35 PM
This anecdote, at the imdb page of After the Wedding...

"At a showing at a film festival in Estonia, two of the reels had been switched by a mistake, making a part of the film out of place. Apparantly the majority of the audience didn't notice and was generally very enthusiastic about the movie despite the narrative being mixed up. "

I've heard nothing but praise for The Lives of Others, but have yet to see it.  Thanks, Martin.



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: oilcanboyd23 on July 24, 2007, 12:53:43 PM
Best film so far this year:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/plotsummary

anybody saw it?

I think it came out last year, but I saw it this year.  In any event, it was great.  It was bleak, which some people might not enjoy, but bleakness in a movie doesn't really bother me.

I hope we see more of the guy who played the Stasi officer - his performance was the best thing about the movie.  He's been in a lot of German movies, and hopefully he'll get some Hollywood $$ work.   Maybe in the next "Bourne"-type movie or Bond movie?   Or better yet, how about a remake (or modern-retelling or whatever) of "M", with him in the Peter Lorre role?



Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 24, 2007, 01:01:22 PM
OILCAN, I hope Sebastian Koch stays in Germany otherwise I´m sure we´ve seen the last of his great acting.The woman was also excellent.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: martinbeck3 on July 24, 2007, 01:08:18 PM
After the Wedding was not shown in my country.We´ve been getting very few foreign films except for USAmerican films lately specially since large buildings with 15 or more cinemas have been built.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on July 24, 2007, 02:14:40 PM
OILCAN, I hope Sebastian Koch stays in Germany otherwise I´m sure we´ve seen the last of his great acting.The woman was also excellent.

perhaps you are making the same mistake i made. i believe oilcan is referring to this actor.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0618057/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 03:27:57 PM
chauncy

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/5632/Events/5632/CaricevanH_Vespa_12227909_400.jpg.html?path=pgallery&path_key=Koch,%20Sebastian


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 03:30:04 PM
After the Wedding was not shown in my country.We´ve been getting very few foreign films except for USAmerican films lately specially since large buildings with 15 or more cinemas have been built.
.

We are having the same problem.  I've been to the new cinema exactly twice in the last seven months.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 03:46:29 PM
OILCAN, I hope Sebastian Koch stays in Germany otherwise I´m sure we´ve seen the last of his great acting.The woman was also excellent.

I have to agree, along with your post that followed, because this is exactly why France did not wish to accept US  dominance of distribution and why they preferred to buy up packages over here in the US and use their own financiers as impressarios to keep out  franchised(your second post) US only films especially while they were being slurred by our political administration, its dept.heads or representatives.

I don't want to see propoganda films any more than French audiences do and they see it that way because they don't want to be over run with US cultural intellectual equivalents of eatting under the Golden Arches. They feel it is a disrespect of their culture .

It is, but the way it is done, as you know, Big Capital crowds out your private aesthetics, along with everything else. andersweisenschaft(?) "Bad money(counterfeit) crowds out good money and knowledge" Taught to me by an old poet.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 04:02:37 PM
oilcanboyd23 re:#1253

"Or better yet, how about a remake (or modern-retelling or whatever) of "M", with him in the Peter Lorre role?"

If it is anything like the recent attempt to remake The Blue Dahlia(or the Gregory Dunne attempt starring Rober DiNiro as the priest-brother of Robert Duvall/detective),

with a new Black Dahlia, we've got problems or, problems inevitably arise.  I mean, I don't mind when they find somebody who looks like Veronica Lake to star in L.A. Confidential and she happens to be Mrs. Alex Baldwin at the time but why spoil the memory of Peter Lorre as a one of a kind actor?   

We've just seen it done with Soderbergh doing a technical experiment that gave us at least two different kinds of camera work, making it not comfortable to concentrate on the story which was half/half. I mean, he didn't even concentrate on the story.

Of course, if you can get George Cloony to play the pedaeophile-child-murderer, that would be a truly underground film; you never know, he might go for it.  On the other hand,he might say, "are you crazy? You want me to throw away my career because the average American movie-goer has one-tenth the intellect that I was born with!"


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 04:44:54 PM
I seem to have scrubbed PoNR from my memory banks.  Just a vague memory of Fonda, none whatso of Keitel as a cleaner in that.  Perhaps his cleaner in Pulp Fiction overshadowed it, memory-wise.  Isn't there a comedy where Keitel appears briefly, spoofs his role in PF?




Ditto re:#1252

I felt that way, looked it up, and it started coming back to me, Yes -- there's Gabriel Byrne in a tower downtown somewhere, like the one they used for Brad Pitt in Anne Rice's first Vampire story movie ever, and Bridget is going around with this very big  gun, in the bathroom wasn't it? And they explain to me in loving detail about Harvey Keitel under the car with the wheels spinning which shouldn't happen with that make of car --but,as you and I know, in Hollywood, they can do anything. To a car, or a remake, or whatever you've got. They earnestly believe that they will improve on it.  You would not be surprised to hear that everyone of the commenters ate this film up with ice-cream while watching in the livingroom within reach of the kitchen door.

Harvey is supposed to be cleaning up that car. I swear, I have not yet gone over to Pulp Fiction to check on how they describe it.  I remember Travolta chewing him out because this is supposed to be part of the act.  Although I would not exactly sit around eating a dish of ice-cream(although one never knows), I was curious about how they were doing Keitel's scenes and I watched, since in my time, I have seen much worse. My father, a surgeon, rather conditioned me to face reality in that department, no pun, by taking me to see where he was professor of Anatomy, down to Gross Laboratory, when I was merely taking Biology for the first time. I hate the smell of formaldehyde, and could not eat meat for months after the visit to Gross Lab. Oddly enough, in my earlier years while yet in grade school, his idea of after dinner entertainment might be to run films of proceedure for Caesarian section, because he was after all a surgeon and to build  his practice at the end of the Depression and in the Forties, he did a lot of C sections as required in obstetrics, while he was developing a family practice. 

But you have to understand that this was the guy like all the lunk-heads on House, or Scrubs, or the Shonda Rimes show formerly known as Gray's Anatomy, who brought home his own cadaver and boiled it down on his landlady's stove to obtain the required skeleton for the study of all the bones in the human body.  This did not deter my mother from marrying him; although, parents being what they were in those years, they kept the Skeleton in the attic, which we kids all knew was up there but by then we were all used to the idea.  You see he believed in "conditioning".

I cleaned up surgeries in my twenties, and I later married a man who had been a battlefield surgeon in Korea. What my  father meant by conditioning, well, he went through it, as residents and interns in a county hospital at the time of the Depression, they went out to the airfield if a plane crashed and counted the parts of bodies, just like you see in the movies today, just to determine if they had everybody on the passenger list, if there was a big accident, you went, it is in fact one of the first things taught in hospital if you are not just on the floors, I was transcribing in pathology lab., so they take you on the necessary tour to understand Triage as they were a burn center in case there was a ship explosion for a vessel on the Great Lakes, again the French Nuns had been sent to staff the nursing care as the ship's crew were rescued and brought up the shore to the hospital.  I was raised on this stuff although it is not my favorite cup of tea.

My family in fact spoke this dialect with each other, I couldn't stand it anymore, I went elsewhere.

I mean, we all have our preferences, in life as well as in movies. But, my father expected his girls to make themselves useful and he was a bit of an Edwardian that way having been raised by Edwardians. He married a girl whose father didn't want her to become a nurse because that was not moral.
Life with father was sometimes like a Sherlock Holmes movie in remake where Watson explains to Holmes that, when A.Conan Doyle studied medicine, girls were not allowed in medical school unless they were exceptionally good looking. (and Rathbone replies,"Yes, it was rather a gradual process." ,as he stops to relight his pipe.)


Title: Got the Point
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 24, 2007, 04:54:22 PM
I liked both Point of No Return and Le Femme Nikkita -- both in their day - have not seen either in recent years.

I only remember the cleaner ( and Harvey Keitel sounds right) being called in after killing inadvertenelty happened on a job.  He used acid on the victims.  He also killed the girl that Bridgette Fonda Character was on the job with when she went hysterical.  Bridgette was able to control her emotions (due to persistent training from Anne Bancroft) and therefore survived the incident...

I used to confuse the title of the American version with a Kevin Costner movie that we have surprisingly not discussed yet.  He played a young Naval Officer  -- it was also "Point Something"   I actually recall this being a pretty good movie also-- he had been having an affair with a girl who was mrdered and they had a partially developed poloroid of him and her and thought this was the murderer and was also involved in something else.  He had good reason to not be identified as being connected to the girl.  Also a nice unexpected twist at the end...   Don't want to ruin it if anyone wants to check it out...


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 05:14:10 PM
harrie,re:#1248

"Have never become used to Bridget Fonda." That is not to say that the film buffs of imdb didn't eat her up, gun and all, the beatific smile on her face and the tear that came to her eye and messed up her vision for her gun-sight, they loved every minute of it. I can just hear isabel, our former roomie, posting something in the forum like,"Bunch of abuse fetishists!" and then not saying a word more. I loved the Kafka sisters, one even visited Elba for a shortwhile and then realized --do I want to go through this again?

The fb(s plural) felt that thin as she was, Fonda, the gun sort of gave her heft and they liked that.

Maybe this is why girls should not go on first dates to movies with guys they don't know?

Now, here is why I preferred Annie as the original street punk of the Paris banlieus. Just a bunch of "heads" right, knocking over the pharmacy.(once you have known people like that,  ya got to love 'em) But, it was kind of hard to take, since it was not true to life chronologically and i kept picturing poor Gerard growing up like this....
Depardieu, you know who I mean.

I liked the grown up cast more as well,Shecky what's his name, as the "operative" . What it all comes down to, any one who has even a trivial bit of their French genes left has a different order of values. By the time he gives her the cadeau at the banquette table in which ever of the superior restaurants at which she is late arriving because she probably had to chance her Givenchy hosiery, you can see how the girl has blossomed even if she is dead. Officially. Tell me now, isn't this the film where she has Jean-Hugues Anglade as a mere room-mate, young actor at the time, bit of a Sartrean pip-squeak but neverless look what he became ! a dead dauphin of France because of who he chose for a mother.  Now if I was even slightly younger, I would want to learn that form for going with the force up the chimney and out. Couvre feu!
Tell me, how did it all end.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: law120b on July 24, 2007, 05:24:24 PM
bridget fonda.  simply one of the sexiest women ever to appear in a motion picture.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 24, 2007, 06:30:47 PM
Well, we all have our "specs".


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: chauncey.g on July 24, 2007, 07:01:34 PM
chauncy

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/5632/Events/5632/CaricevanH_Vespa_12227909_400.jpg.html?path=pgallery&path_key=Koch,%20Sebastian

Hey, Ma!

Der oilcan stated, "I hope we see more of the guy who played the Stasi officer..."

Herr beck3 replied, "I hope Sebastian Koch stays in Germany..."

Ulrich Mühe portrayed the Stasi officer in Das Leben der Anderen and Sebastian Koch played an SS officer in Zwartboek. I kornfused the two when the topic came up some time back.


Title: Re: Got the Point
Post by: chauncey.g on July 24, 2007, 07:11:20 PM
I used to confuse the title of the American version with a Kevin Costner movie that we have surprisingly not discussed yet.  He played a young Naval Officer  -- it was also "Point Something"   I actually recall this being a pretty good movie also-- he had been having an affair with a girl who was mrdered and they had a partially developed poloroid of him and her and thought this was the murderer and was also involved in something else.  He had good reason to not be identified as being connected to the girl.  Also a nice unexpected twist at the end...   Don't want to ruin it if anyone wants to check it out...

That was No Way Out I believe. No point. Not in the title nor in my clarification.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 24, 2007, 11:05:06 PM
Yeah, the computer guy in the wheelchair was SPOILER FOR NO WAY OUT developing the polaroid using ADVANCED COMPUTER ENHANCEMENT which takes APPROXIMATELY ONE ACT to be sufficiently developed.  You know, "Dammit, wrong algorithym again, where is Goldblum and the JWRED, I'm only George Dzunzda, fat and crippled, sure it enhances my computer-ability because the PC is always at eye level but I can't pace the floor and take dramatic pulls on product placement bottles of intoxicating liquors rumored to assist with complex math, I mean, you understand the kind of pressure I'm under, poor Will Patton offed himself before he even knew about the picture "The Postman" developing, oh God YURI.....

.....ACCESS DENIED???

Well, I'm settling in to catching up with an old classic of the "No Way Out" era, none other than the Peter Weller/Sam Elliott "buddy cop" (defense attorney/ex-cop drunk) movie "Shakedown," which is so much better than the script that it's hard to describe.  Almost every line is a cliche, to the point of archetypal kind of self-parody so close to the edge between genius and idiocy that only the Germans and Dutch have a word for it, and I don't even know what that word is.....the point is that when Weller tells the HOT PROSECUTOR that she "doesn't look like chopped liver, either," you kind of snort, but then you're almost engrossed as to how much of a cliche a movie can be.....it's like meeting a meathead that crushes a beer against his skull, you're first thought is that he's a boor and the instinct toward flight begins to swell, but then, you're kind of in awe of how good he is at being a dickhead.....anyway, if you get an opportunity to see "Shakedown" it's one of the better hackneyed action films of the era, not only does it deliver the goods, like somebody funneling a six-pack without puking, but it does so knowing that it's a pretty silly venture the whole time.  The funny part is seeing Weller and Elliott smirk and wryly deliver their way through the terrible lines, and you wonder if they are phoning it in, about to laugh, largely oblivious, or simply having fun.  It's a head-scratcher on many levels from the Hollywood screenwriter inventing street drug dialogue of NYC that is atrocious the way a sci-fi writer takes a bong hit and comes up with a "proximity bomb," you know, a bomb that goes off when you get close to it, well, "Shakedown" is a proximity turkey in it's own right, or should I say peacock, oh well, without mixing metaphors suffice it to say that it sucks and is great at the same time, smarter than "Cobra," and more unapolagetic about it's stupidity than more excusable postmodern fare like "The Last Boy Scout," if any of that makes any sense.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 24, 2007, 11:13:52 PM
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096087/

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19880506/REVIEWS/805060304/1023


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 24, 2007, 11:33:37 PM
harrie,re:#1248
"Have never become used to Bridget Fonda."

This makes it look like I said I've never become used to Ms. Fonda.  Which I did not.  And while I may not feel quite the same way about her as law120b, I do like her work.  And she is seriously beautiful.  That being said, I preferred La Femme Nikita because 1) it was the original; and 2) it works better suspense-wise (for me, anyway). 

Now that being said, I end up agreeing with TrojanHorse that I like each film -- La Femme Nikita and Point of No Return -- for its own merits.  I think LFN is better executed, but I will watch the following people -- Gabriel Byrne, Anne Bancroft, Harvey Keitel, and Bridget Fonda (in that order) -- do just about anything, so I can't fault PoNR too much. 

It's a classic case of Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven.  I appreciate Seven Samurai   as a far better film, but I'll still watch The Magnificent Seven again and again, because it's still a good story, even with its flaws.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 25, 2007, 12:33:49 AM
La Femme Nikita original?  I seem to remember it being done once before.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: jbottle on July 25, 2007, 12:35:39 AM
"I've never become used to Ms. Fonda."

Hell, I wouldn't charge her for the handcuffs, if she'd promise to leave 'em nearby after I had been sufficently used, and that's no bullshit neither.

 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 12:38:13 AM
La Femme Nikita original?  I seem to remember it being done once before.


Dahling, zat was zi original.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 12:39:56 AM
harrie,re:#1270

You know how it is though; I kind of think of Jeanne Moreau as like my mother.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 12:42:00 AM
ALL RIGHT, so The Magnificent Seven was by Larry Kasdans, right. God, I loved those days at the beach, after all the tourists went home.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 25, 2007, 12:53:14 AM
I thought Bridget Fonda was pretty good in Jackie Brown.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: Dzimas on July 25, 2007, 12:54:35 AM
La Femme Nikita (1990)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100263/


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 01:35:25 AM
dzimas,

I'm sick about it. I can't get the Caryn James review out of hoc. Only Janet Maslin cold refer to Jeanne Moreau as "a beauty consultant". Maslin just has too much pull around there, which we have left gracefully  behind; what did she do, tell them she'd quit if they didn't pull the competitive revue?  James is intelligent, Maslin is not.

Anyway, now that I'm over that tantrum, I forgot that Jean Reno was in there as the chief of intelligence. Tcheky Karyo is just the glamour puss of the department. One rarely does see him. But, of course this was 1991; that went fast.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 01:56:46 AM
chauncy

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/5632/Events/5632/CaricevanH_Vespa_12227909_400.jpg.html?path=pgallery&path_key=Koch,%20Sebastian

Hey, Ma!

Der oilcan stated, "I hope we see more of the guy who played the Stasi officer..."


I remember this conversation in this forum weeks ago but...
It really seemed that martin meant what he said about Koch's acting. That's what he was looking l at.


Herr beck3 replied, "I hope Sebastian Koch stays in Germany..."

Ulrich Mühe portrayed the Stasi officer in Das Leben der Anderen and Sebastian Koch played an SS officer in Zwartboek. I kornfused the two when the topic came up some time back.


I remember this conversation in this forum weeks ago but...
It really seemed that martin meant what he said about Koch's acting. That's what he was looking l at.

Herr beck3 replied, "I hope Sebastian Koch stays in Germany..." So, he can keep on acting and be seen again. The industry in California destroys these actors who are between one age category and another.

Ulrich Mühe,  as you say, and in the credits listed as Hauptmann so and so and so, makes me click my heels if I was a boy but, being a girl, I had a guy by this name invite me to our first school dance at Christmas season, before we left grade school; so when one hears someone pitch that title in the air, it gives you a little nervous reaction. I come from a very strange part of the country.  To this day, if we have to go to an anti-fascist session with a visitor who sits at a desk like Ulrich Muhe with the umlaut, but looks like Maximillian Schell opposite Jane Fonda traveling into the Soviet Union with money sewn into her toque, it still happens like we were in grade school. The guys answer soft-spoken questions by jumping to their feet and clicking their heels. I listen to the women behind me snicker and do these horse-laughs but it is a conditioning that you can never break.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 25, 2007, 07:51:39 AM
ALL RIGHT, so The Magnificent Seven was by Larry Kasdans, right. God, I loved those days at the beach, after all the tourists went home.

Unless you're joking and I don't get it .... No.  The Magnificent Seven was by John Sturges; Larry Kasdan was a tyke (10-11) at the time.  Perhaps you're thinking of Silverado (Kevin Kline, Kevin Costner (debut-ish role), Brian Dennehy, Linda Hunt, John Cleese, Danny Glover, Scott Glenn, and many more)?


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: harrie on July 25, 2007, 08:07:18 AM
La Femme Nikita original?  I seem to remember it being done once before.

Quite possible, but offhand I'm not aware of it.  The 1990 Nikita is what I refer to as La Femme Nikita; that was its release name over here.  I've heard about something Italian from the '60s (I think), but haven't been able to track it down yet. 


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 25, 2007, 09:50:46 AM
Ah, yes....La Donna Nikitino.

Didn't know you could kill with fusilli, but I knew it was dangerous (Seinfeld).



Title: Re: Got the Point
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 25, 2007, 10:09:16 AM


That was No Way Out I believe. No point. Not in the title nor in my clarification.

Thanks Chance...    I guess it was the "no" that they had in common...  :)


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 25, 2007, 10:11:47 AM

Well, I'm settling in to catching up with an old classic of the "No Way Out" era, none other than the Peter Weller/Sam Elliott "buddy cop" (defense attorney/ex-cop drunk) movie "Shakedown,"

Have not seen Shakedown -- I'll have to check it out.  I do like Peter Weller


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 25, 2007, 10:13:28 AM
La Femme Nikita original?  I seem to remember it being done once before.


Dahling, zat was zi original.

The movie -- not the TV show...


Title: Re: Got the Point
Post by: chauncey.g on July 25, 2007, 10:48:18 AM
I guess it was the "no" that they had in common...

Or perhaps the commonality of the meanings of the phrases themselves. A point of no return is synonymous with no way out.


Title: Re: Movies
Post by: barton on July 25, 2007, 11:16:20 AM
Actually, it's not.

A point of no return is a threshold that, when you pass it, you can&