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Title: Food Matters
Post by: Admin on May 02, 2007, 10:31:46 PM
Discuss dining, wine, eating out/in, or recipes


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 03, 2007, 12:06:06 PM
Since I petitioned the Administrator for this discussion i guess I should post something to get things going.  My problem is I can riff off other people's ideas better than coming up with ideas of my own.  Yeah, I'm one of those who's always saying, "Boy Howdy, that's a great idea"!

Bought some buttermilk the other day, which seemed like a good thing to make really authentic buttermilk and sour cream dressing for some cukes.  But what to do with the rest?  I made two loaves of Irish soda bread (made croutons out of most of the second loaf--yummers) and two buttermilk pies, and this morning buttermilk pancakes.  Whew!  I'm buttermilked out.  I'm putting the last little bit in the compost.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: liquidsilver on May 03, 2007, 12:10:27 PM
Well, my wife and I just bought a house which means that we can actually use a real grill rather than the George Foreman version.  Anyone have any good recommendations for a good middle range grill?  Home Depot and Lowe's have a few brands I've never heard of - Charmglow and Perfect Flame.  I'm leaning towards a Char-Broil Commercial Series that I read a couple reviews about.  Any advice or suggestions?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 03, 2007, 03:21:45 PM
Liquidsilver, how much money do you plan to spend?  Are you going to buy a stand alone grill (with a propane bottle) or incorporate a grill into a setting and have gas piped to it, etc.?  My daughter does the grilling at my place and she uses a plain vanilla smoker grill (red, shaped like a fat cigar).  Been using it for years and people who eat her grill like it.  Now, my sister's hubby grills once a day, sometimes twice.  He is an aficinado, a gormet, a boring know-it-all.  He has so much brushed chrome I have to get there late and wear shades.  His veggies are so "crisp" they are similar to uncooked.  His steaks moo, lamb bleats, and whole fish, well, you don't want to go there.  Naturally the big box stores are gonna recommend what they sell, but don't forget fireplace outfits--the kind that sell fireplace inserts and brick--as many of them have added grills and stuff to their inventory.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: liquidsilver on May 03, 2007, 03:26:54 PM
I don't want to spend too much, probably between $300-$500 for a propane model.  I hadn't thought of fireplace outlets, I'll have to check that out.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 04, 2007, 10:26:44 PM
Buttermilk-Drink it!.As for grills I will only use a Weber Charcoal.I have two on the patio and the neighbor in my bldg has a propane grill out on the patio. With three we can cook all kinds of stuff.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: mnemonica on May 05, 2007, 08:24:52 AM
This here is a test -- my first message on this board! (You knew me as makrausse.)

I bought a little covered hibachi-like thing a few years ago to tide me over while I researched bigger grill models. Turns out it's been all I need -- I'm just grilling for two, and I mostly just do vegetables and chicken; occasionally steaks. It sits on the patio table, and it probably cost $50.

Buttermilk -- next time, buy a can of that buttermilk powder stuff. Keep it in the fridge and it'll keep forever. (Keep it in the cupboard and it'll get weevily.) I don't know if you can make buttermilk pie with it, though, and buttermilk pie suddenly sounds really good. Hm.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 05, 2007, 01:00:36 PM
Mnemonica, I have that powdered buttermilk in the fridge at all times.  Great stuff to use, or to just add to, in recipes.  But I have never, you know, reconstituted it as a portion of "live" buttermilk.  Hmm.  Well, I found the recipe for buttermilk pie in an old cookbook I have from some civic group in New Mexico (I collect cookbooks and have more than 100) that specialized in spicy food.  It seemed odd to find that pie recipe there.  Anyway, I use powdered to make pancakes and biscuits.  I just add it to the dry ingredients and then use water for the X amount of buttermilk in the recipe.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: liquidsilver on May 05, 2007, 09:49:54 PM
Does anybody actually use the side grill on their propane grill? 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 05, 2007, 10:49:27 PM
My neighbor has used his before for heating sauce but most of the time its either a place to put the platter or the drink.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 07, 2007, 04:09:45 PM
Does anybody actually use the side grill on their propane grill? 

If you mean the burner attachment, one or two grills ago, we used it occasionally to heat up sauerkraut or chili if we were grilling dogs. But we used it probably 4-5 times over two years, so when purchasing a replacement we skipped that option.   

Last night we grilled pineapple, and it was to die for.  I know we didn't invent it or anything, but I do believe it is the best thing since sliced bread.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on May 07, 2007, 04:23:47 PM
the best thing since sliced bread is the TOASTER.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 07, 2007, 04:28:27 PM
the best thing since sliced bread is the TOASTER.

Nope, sorry, I think grilled pineapple even beats the toaster.   (Is that you bux_bro?)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: liquidsilver on May 07, 2007, 04:29:30 PM
Grilled bananas are pretty darn good too


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on May 07, 2007, 04:32:35 PM
in the old days, when bux posted, it was, 'is that you law?'  either way, hi harrie!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 07, 2007, 04:40:39 PM
in the old days, when bux posted, it was, 'is that you law?'  either way, hi harrie!

Hey, bux!!  How'd that eternal life thing work out for you?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 07, 2007, 04:43:24 PM
Grilled bananas are pretty darn good too

I have a bunch of them hanging around -- thanks for the tip, will try it this week.  Dumb question:  Do you cut them in half so they lay flat on the grill, or leave them round (but peeled)?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on May 07, 2007, 06:00:04 PM
harrie, life is eternal, cause when it ends, you don't know shit about it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 07, 2007, 06:19:28 PM
On grilled bananas...I would guess you'd slice them in half, lengthwise.  But do you put anything on them before grilling?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 07, 2007, 07:29:11 PM
I'll probably brush a little olive oil on them, especially given their sugar content.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 07, 2007, 07:30:34 PM
harrie, life is eternal, cause when it ends, you don't know shit about it.

Wow, I'm already at the DNS point; must be ahead of schedule.  I hope.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on May 08, 2007, 12:58:06 PM
is that Don't [Know] Shit or is it Do Not Suscitate.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: neversleep on May 09, 2007, 10:07:18 AM
test


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: prairiepop on May 17, 2007, 12:28:28 PM
About those 'nanners...super for upkeep of potassium levels for daily maintenance...and here's how My Mum fixed 'em:  baked with little dots of butter, high temp. [400-425] until browned.  Indian curry multi-boy dinners [her fave for company] placed a baked 'nanner underneath the serving of rice--before globbing on the curried whatsit and adding the 'boys' [condiments like toasted coconut, chutney, minced boiled egg, chopped green onions, crushed peanuts, currants] on top.  Great farewell to roast leg o' lamb, BTW...favored in the old Raj days to conceal the elderly meats in pre-refrig days.  Feeling lavish?  Use shrimp.  Feeling lite?  Use chicken.  Why the term 'boy' for condiments?  Welll....mum was a Frightfully Upper old gal and recalled the Raj term for servants.. a 6-boy curry meant 6 condiment dishes hustled to tableside by 6.  Respectfully, no doubt.  Impoverished Mem Sahibs merely circled the curry platter with the condiment dishes...  The only approved chutney was called Major Gray's, and the last time I checked prices...fuhgeddaboutit. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 17, 2007, 05:39:13 PM
PrairiePop, lest we forget, the Portugese were in India, Ceylon, and surrounds before the English.  The use of "boy" by the English for the male servants in their household comes from the Portugese "bhoi," which was the name of a Hindu caste of palanquin and umbrella bearers.  This specific use of "bhoi" spread to become generic for servant.  Interesting, your report, that the number of condiments would equal the number of servants needed to bring them to the table.  That was one of the drawbacks to the end of the Raj.  Full employment went by the wayside.

It was common for Indians to be employed in English households to perform just one task, ie., the man who only killed turkeys for the household of the X (sorry I can't remember the title of the big kuhana that ran India in those days) and whose complete compliment of servants numbered 5000.  The way things are for folks in the countryside in India today makes you feel sympathy with those Indians who today look with some fondness on the old Raj days.

I've always thought Indians would be so much better off if they ate those cows that now wander the streets.  They could maybe have a national holiday--like our thanksgiving--and have one big beef barbeque.  Over one billion Indians could scarfe down quite a bit of that free protein.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 18, 2007, 12:32:25 AM
Quote
I've always thought Indians would be so much better off if they ate those cows that now wander the streets.  They could maybe have a national holiday--like our thanksgiving--and have one big beef barbeque.  Over one billion Indians could scarfe down quite a bit of that free protein.

I bit sacrligious, and shame on me for finding your remark outrageously funny ;-)

Prairepop...I'm definitely going to try those bananas...maybe without the mouldy lamb...

Maybe I'll try bananas, curried rice fried with a bit of onion, then toss on some  raisins and almonds. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 22, 2007, 02:26:11 AM
This forum seems to be lagging.I left the NYTimes a good half year or more before the end but does anyone know if Balzac was still posting or if anyone knows how to tell her about this.We need a few foodies and or folks who think Amanda Hesser(sp)  has no clue about food.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 22, 2007, 10:56:25 AM
Eventually people will be tempted to come over and find this place.

My wife has started writing a cook book.  Anyone have any suggestions on promoting and getting it published?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 22, 2007, 11:24:39 AM
TrojanHorse, I hope your wife is writing a cookbook that is "pegged" on some kind of "specific".  General cookbooks tend to be written by "names" in the food world.  Other than being a reader and buyer of cookbooks that's all I know about the process of getting a cookbook out there in book stores.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 22, 2007, 12:01:43 PM
Trojanhorse...sounds exciting for your wife.  What sorts of recipes does she like?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 22, 2007, 12:16:59 PM
It is a very specific niche that we do not believe has been tackled yet.

We've been having a parade of people over to the house fopr weekend parties where she tests all her recipes...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 23, 2007, 03:17:40 AM
I was looking at Chimichurri recipes tonight to serve alongside a flank steak this weekend and there are so many different variations I'm surprised I did not find one that used prunes as an ingredient.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 23, 2007, 03:30:36 AM
The highlight of the weekend though will be on Sunday when I do my three six packs of Zweigle's pop open franks on the Weber for my apt neighbors in L.A..They look forward to these great dogs Red and White that are a Rochester,N.Y. special and the ground beef chili sauce served in Rochester on top of these and Burgers.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 23, 2007, 07:41:40 PM
Is there any way to put a poster on ignore like the old NYTimes forum.I tried something but it just appears to block email . By the way the poster is not from  this forum.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 24, 2007, 01:23:48 AM
Bo, I don't think Escape From Elba has an ignore feature.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 24, 2007, 01:46:03 AM
Donot,I don't think it does either and I wish it did.One showed up yesterday who drove many friends on our Yahoo group away from the NYTimes forums.Where have you been? Cooking outdoors this weekend?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 24, 2007, 11:37:52 AM
Bo, I noticed that, too.  I'm doing a huge pan of red hot spicy wings in the oven, but am going to fire up the grill for "dogs" of all kinds--mild and hot.  No hamburgers.  I've been reading foodie books and am convinced I should grind my own hamburger from grass fed beef.  You know, buy the roast cuts, chop it into 1 inch cubes, and run the meat through the food processor (by pulsing it.)  Industrial processed meat is confinement raised on corn, and is full of antibiotics to boot.  I'm trying to eat "locally" as much as I can.  It's hard, thougn.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on May 24, 2007, 02:59:20 PM
Donot,

I think if you read further in your foodie books you will discover that dogs are an outrageous no-no. They are full of unconventional parts of the pig. In spite of all I've heard about them, I do enjoying eating them with mustard and sweet relish. The "Coney Island" dogs taste better on Coney Island than out of the grocery store, tho.

Are the preformed frozen "Bubba Burgers" available in other parts of the country? If you enjoy a tasty burger, these are for you. 1/3 lb of meat, juicy, flavorful, and quick from freezer to belly.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 24, 2007, 07:57:52 PM
If you have a KitchenAid stand mixer, they have a grinding attachment you can buy for about $100 (I think, we bought ours a while ago), and grind your roast into burger that way, too.  Plus, if you want to get crazy, you can make your own sausage and stuff with it.  We use it to make kielbasa, and it's super-easy to use.  Which I guess a food processor is too, but I prefer the grind to the chop.  To each his own.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 25, 2007, 02:59:39 AM
Weezo, I know the dogs are a no-no, but I gotta have 'em on this holiday and the next one coming up.  And the worse the "parts" the better I like the taste, if you can believe it.  But not chicken.  And not turkey.  I need to find a foodie sausage place.  And I've got to find a butcher shop that sells grass fed beef, and porker's that are allowed to roam and root.

Harrie, I know that grinder attachment to the mixer is a good thing (don't they make a noodle maker for it too?) but right now I've already got a food processor that will work for the small amounts that I would usually want.

Folks, I am dead serious about changing over, as much as I can, to eating foods found within 2 hours from where I live (about 100 miles) bought from small farmers who do not use pesticides or growth hormones and other such junk.  I'm reading Barbara Kingsolver's "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" and she's giving me tips on how to do it.  It's not going to be easy.  Making my own peanut butter?  You gotta be kidding?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on May 25, 2007, 06:42:21 AM
Donot,

Went to a farmer's stand earlier this week. Didn't buy much produce since I'd already stocked up at the super market. But they had good looking stuff, and the garden it comes from is out back of the building. We bought some preserves, mixed berries, and it actually tastes like the berries instead of jellied sugar of the grocery store stuff (even Smuckers). Reminds of the years when I made my own blackberry preserves, and, opening a jar in mid winter, was like feeling a hot summer breeze in your mouth!

Got some local fresh eggs the other day. There is an ancient couple who lives next door, in their nineties so unable to get out to shop. We often pick up a rotisserie chicken for them when we got to the store, and they enjoy it. This week, she offered me some eggs given her by another neighbor, in exchange for the chicken. I didn't know that neighbor had chickens. Maybe I should look into getting them on a regular basis.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 25, 2007, 12:28:59 PM
There you go, Weezo.  Never know what the neighbors are up to until you interact with them, eh?  For several years I've been buying my XXX-large, double yolked eggs from a guy at Farmer's Market located in downtown Dallas (which the city council is always trying to sell since the land is worth so much but then the hue and cry from the citizens is so great they soon disabuse themselves of that notion and just raise the rates of the stall rents instead, trying to drive out the farmer-sellers, but then most Dallas city council members are ignorant bastards that are always behind the curve.)

It's nearly time for the Jacksonville, TX tomatoes to come on strong.  I plan to make myself sick eating as many as I can.


Title: Block Party
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 25, 2007, 12:43:28 PM
Any one have any good ideas on how to organize a block party for the neighborhood?

We moved into a Cul de Sac last fall and I asked if they ever did a holiday block party and the answer was "no" but everyone thought it was a great idea.

Too late for memorial Day i think, but maybe enough time to plan for 4th of July.

All tips are welcomed...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 25, 2007, 01:59:04 PM
Trojan, first of all you've got to go door to door and personally invite your neighbors to your home for "an evening of discussion about having a Block Party on July 4th 200."  Tell them there will be food.  Leave them with a paper with your name, address, phone number, e-mail addy, and what time they should show up at your house.  Pick a Friday evening.  Tell them that if it is inconvenient, but if they are still interested, they can send an older child as surrogate (leave this option for folks that truly have an excuse.)  Stress that this meeting is just to explore the possibility ofhaving a Block Party.

Good luck.  And when you DO have the meeting and find most everyone enthusiastically FOR the idea, do not assign all the chores and "see to its" to the women.  Get the men involved.  And if a natural leader other than you emerges, let go of the project in their favor.  Especially if that person has lived in the neighborhood a long time.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on May 25, 2007, 02:13:39 PM
Donot,

You are right. I should keep up with the neighbors more. We live on a country road, and tend to nut up a bit much. We do get our tomato plants from a neighbor with a green house. Got some good plants that I put in about a week ago, one is a "heritage" plant called Brandywine, the others are the usual modern hybrids.

BTW, I have a sister living somewhere in the Dallas area. Her zip is 75428 .... Her and hubby have their own circuit board design company, so never have time to garden.

Same problem with the Farmer's Market in Richmond. The real estate is worth a lot, but the worst danger may come from the historical folks. Seems the Farmer's Market was built over a slave/black cemetary of earlier centuries. It is in the part of the city that was seriously run down most of the 20th century, but hold the St. John's Church in which Patrick Henry spoke, and other historical sites from the beginning of the city's history. There is also a farmer's market in Petersburg, where my neighbor sells organic produce. I've never been there. There is a nice farm outlet in Blackstone, with fresh double-yolked eggs in a basket type container, that we used to gorge on until the doc said the cholesterol was a problem. Oh, but they were so GOOD in an omelet! So eggy!

Anne in Virginia



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 25, 2007, 04:01:34 PM
Nytemps, thanks for the Harold Meyerson piece.  If that's not enough to keep you searching for local food I don't know what will.  And then there's the toothpaste . . . "Merle, do we have any baking soda for the bathroom?"

Yes, that's what's so nice about Kingsolver's book.  No preaching.  Just oddles and gobs of information.

"The Poisonwood Bible" in fiction?  Great.  Now, I just need to find a copy of the book.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on May 26, 2007, 12:40:52 PM
I eat little meat, just a bit of chicken or fish with asian cuisine, as a condiment.  Even that little bit that I contribute to the horrors of factory farming bothers me.  The thing about food issues is that we are taking about a drive so basic that it can roll over ethical considerations, especially when the ethical matters are somewhat abstract and remote.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on May 26, 2007, 01:29:05 PM
Yall have inpired me.... I think I'll sit back, enjoy my Yoohoo and a pink snowball, and read the local paper. Maybe I'll top it off with a chicken wing!



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 28, 2007, 01:48:54 AM
I have been meaning to ask if any of you charcoal grillers if there are any out there have tried Kingsfords Char Wood.It comes in a brownish colored bag a bit like the color of their Mesquite product.It is really great for cooking steaks .It burns hot so not really good for chicken or doing long slow cooking of Pork shoulder or Brisket.It comes in different size pieces some over six inches long.While Charcoal in my tower lights quietly the Char Wood crackles and pops as it reaches cooking heat.If you use your Weber a lot its worth looking for and having it and the charcoal around.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 29, 2007, 12:35:36 PM
Duh.  I hadn't realized that cattle production numbers depend on the demand for select cuts of beef.  That because of restaurants, both fast and slow, wanting steak cuts, the Amazon forest is being cut down, and recently the demand has started pushing prices upward, since in order to meet the steak demand suppliers have to expand the market for the rest of the cow carcass.  Hamburger, hamburger, hamburger?  A roast in every slow cooker in the land?  Teaching home cooks to slow cook beef roasts on the grill (like pulled pork)?

I read where some organic/local beef only restaurants have started having steak only when it is available from existing local herds.  In other words, you gotta eat those other beef cuts before another cow is butchered.

Sounds sustainable, reasonable, and earth friendly to me.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 30, 2007, 11:47:56 AM
Morning,donot, we have a lot of grass fed angus here, so I have two reliable sources for steak, the Amishman who listened to me gripe about British-Canadian-Bush administration dealings way back when, and a recently discovered Mennonite who supplies everything I shouldn't eat  but that's what he's there for and he comes up with individually packaged steaks that he gets out of the freezer when the commutting crowd is going to be passing by on the way home.

These are of a size that you can pan fry or grill under the broiler within less than ten minutes. You only have to clean up the pan. They are remarkable at this season for slicing lengthwise after you let them stand a minute and they are then served as Salad! topping a selection of mixed lettuces you can grow at home in a shady spot that is semi-sunny,reverse of the usual proceedure. Yes, you can add tomatoes, dressing (did you give us your buttermilk dressing?),and any other vegetables you have a mind to with French bread on the side.  I think this is the classic we were taught to eat by Jane, out in Oconomowoc, who spent the day reading while we went out to the float on Lac La Belle to get sun-poisoning by swimming all day in our childhood.  Just a modern variation on it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 30, 2007, 07:45:54 PM
  And if a natural leader other than you emerges, let go of the project in their favor.  Especially if that person has lived in the neighborhood a long time.

that's a great idea.  I don't feel a need to be in charge of it that's for sure.  I just think it is a nice tradition.

I'll bring the margaritas...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 30, 2007, 07:48:42 PM
I heard a rumor that the minister of food or agriculture or something in China had been sentenced to death over the recent problems.  I looked on-line but didn;t notice any stories so I'm doubting the authenticity of the rumor.  has anyone else heard that?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on May 30, 2007, 07:54:20 PM
NYTemp

you never really know anymore where everything is coming from.  A lot of food companies import raw ingredients from China and even the company itself doesn't even know certain items are grown there.

Take mushrooms for example.  A number of large mushroom producers in north America closed shop and prices went through the roof for certain commercial types.  During this time we found out the a large Canadian mushroom company was actually importing almost all of their mushrooms from China.  So although you (as a restaurant chain or whatever) are ordering from a Canadian company, you didn;t necessarily know that the mushrooms were actually sourced originally from China.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 31, 2007, 12:05:35 AM
Donot....I wonder if you've seen this

http://www.amazon.com/Plenty-Woman-Raucous-Eating-Locally/dp/030734732X/ref=pd_sim_b_5/104-5859414-1947112?ie=UTF8&qid=1180584170&sr=1-1

I haven't read it myself, but it looks interesting.  I came across it when I was reading the reviews of the Kingsolver book.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 31, 2007, 12:09:03 AM
Course this one's more in your neck of the woods.  The author lives in Arizona. 

http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Eat-Pleasures-Politics/dp/0393323749/ref=pd_sim_b_4/104-5859414-1947112?ie=UTF8&qid=1180584170&sr=1-1

I've heard Nabhan on talk shows promoting his book (and lifestyle).  Sounds quite good.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on May 31, 2007, 07:05:14 AM
A bit of humor as you plan your weekend of food:

Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was
manufactured in England.  In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of
the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be
the next port of call for the great ship after its  stop in New York.

This would have been the largest single shipment of  mayonnaise ever
delivered to Mexico. But as we know, the great ship did not make it to New
York. The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost.  The
people of Mexico, who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting
its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss. Their anguish was so great,
that they declared a National Day of Mourning, which they still observe to
this day.  The National Day of Mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is
known, of course, as...............

Sinko de Mayo.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 31, 2007, 10:50:02 AM
Hoffman, thanks for the links.  The McKinnon couple reminds me of the many books I read in my younger days about pioneer folk ("Seventy Miles to a Lemon"), how they lived, loved, and died (at first I thought it was Bill McKibbon we were talking about).  The Nabhan book I fear will be something like that fellow on TLC (The Learning Channel) that eats whatever weird stuff is being served wherever he is.  Mostly I can't bear to watch.  I mean, I've eaten snake just to see if it really tastes like chicken--no--but I am not all that adventurous, really.

I really feel the "eating locally" is catching on.  More than we realize, maybe.

One thing Kingsolver mentions that I hadn't thought of: cheese is the only way to store milk (from any animal) past its use by date.  Neat.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 31, 2007, 11:10:24 AM
Trojan, I read about the Chinese government's intention, to execute that fellow, in the New York Times--seems founded in fact.  On first thought it seems a bit harsh.  However, in Panama and other places in South America, with their children laying dead in coffins, he might just be pulled limb from limb if those parents could get their hands on him.   The Chinese are especially sensitive to world opinion with the Olympic games coming on hard.

I don't know about you but I'm suspicious of eating anything grown anywhere in China.  The pollution there is just unbelievable.  And, I'm starting to ask my grocery personnel where things come from, like their fish and veggies and other unlabeled stuff.  I guess pretty soon they'll start hiding when they see me coming.  They used to just say "Umm, I don't really know" until they found out I wouldn't settle for that.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 31, 2007, 11:27:56 AM
Reply to Trojanhorse

NYTemp

you never really know anymore where everything is coming from.  A lot of food companies import raw ingredients from China and even the company itself doesn't even know certain items are grown there.

Take mushrooms for example.  A number of large mushroom producers in north America closed shop and prices went through the roof for certain commercial types.  During this time we found out the a large Canadian mushroom company was actually importing almost all of their mushrooms from China.  So although you (as a restaurant chain or whatever) are ordering from a Canadian company, you didn;t necessarily know that the mushrooms were actually sourced originally from China.

Were you referring to canned mushrooms in regard to restaurant preparations of food? I ask because, I once gave a lengthy not so erudite exposition on the production of mushroom soil to donot, some of which makes the grade for  mushroom growing at Avon,Pa.,which calls itself - The Mushroom Capital of the USA. They package the usual,whites,portobella both large and small(used in Italian cooking),as well as the Asian varieties.

I did for a short while begin picking up nicely packaged, good looking mushrooms that came out of Monterey,California;but, when looking them up at their web-site was less happy about it.  They have a very wide operation, shipping all over the place and they go into detail about every facet, and yet the bottom line for me was that they are still production based at S.Juan Bautista on the border-line of Baja California, where the packaged spinach industry,this eventually included other packaged salads, produced by many companies, heated up a real E.Coli investigation and scare that led to recalls of  many other kinds  of field grown  vegetables including those from some of my favourites like Tanamura & Antler who have one of the best reputations in the business, and provide you with web-site information on every variety of vegetable that they produce as well as many ways of preparing them usually in the preferred California style of salads before all else.

A blog did come up at one of the nytimes. blog sites, somewhat after that, in regard to our opinions on globalization, and I specifically addressed the melamine scare as a "cheap" substitute for protein replacements in adulterated pet food, and the arguments about wheat gluten and whether it contained something that chemically altered in the packaging or was it the gluten itself at fault for acute kidney failure in cats and dogs; which may be sufficient cause for Americans to change their opinion on globalization as foreign policy.

1) it is itself the very antithesis of the prior 1960's  ideal,which has become "slow cooking", was:Diet for a Small Planet, and which advocated buying and producing local rather than relying on products requiring long distance shipping, TO SAVE ENERGY, and require less transport fuel consumption!

2) we do not as yet even make much inquiry into other adverse effects politically which are presented to us as beneficial relations with countries in our own hemisphere when we have already become gradually dependent on the very expensive profit margin to the distributor and retailer of out of season produce that used to be considered luxuries, which American consumers habitually buy and eat out of season.

The pet crisis was however where I had to adjust as I readily did to the national genetically modified soy program as an almost inescapable dietary factor, because I readily consumed wheat gluten for many years, first of all aware of the vast network of Chinese merchandising throughout the world long before it was taken up as a political ideal within US two-party warfare and infighting.   There are vegetarian companies that provide canned wheat gluten and soy products from California to Seventh Day Adventist communities, whose products I enjoyed for many years; and I really enjoyed some of the Chinese produced products as well although most of those were originally out of Taiwan and labeled Republic of China, which was true in so far as they were Nationalist Republicans,but could fool the consumer since they obviously were not the PRC.

A bigger scandal may be the seafood, we've bought which you can find in every supermarket fish department freezer, from China for decades; but then we also willing began immediately using the catch from the South China Sea and the Gulf of Thailand,  after the War in Vietnam,Laos,Cambodia dumping god knows what quantity of chemicals into the waters effluent from defoliated land and killing fields.

Now that I've ruined the day... Not going to use Julia Child's famous sign-off...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 31, 2007, 11:36:43 AM
donotremove,

Wasn't the Panama incident caused by a tooth-paste ingredient or do I have two stories mixed up?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 31, 2007, 11:42:16 AM
addendum-- to donotremove

"I'm starting to ask my grocery personnel where things come from, like their fish and veggies..."

We've known about the e-coli, ever since the supermarkets put up a label over the green onions, right?  Labeled as, from Mexico. One of the fast food franchises had a complete disaster with the g.i.tract syndrome; apparently some supermarkets thought they would avoid being held accountable for a similar discomfort in home-cooking.

Yes, I have the same response, after the last five years, they hide. Some of them even retire, but I find other purveyors of decent food.
 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 31, 2007, 03:48:55 PM
Yes, it was adulterated toothpaste, Maddy.  The toothpaste manufacturer didn't know the stuff they'd gotten as an ingredient in the paste they made was that chemical that's in anti-freeze (which kills a lot of cats in my neighborhood and may be the reason for the disappearance of the "neighborhood' chicken flock that wandered free, and left many an egg in my yard.)  That stuff is sweet and kids and animals are suseptible to ingesting it.

I bow to your and Weezo's knowledge about smoking and tomatoes.

Wheezo, my daughter uses some sort of "tea" she makes from Redman tobacco and "other" stuff--stinging nettles??  I have always thought the nettles got a bum rap.  Their blooms are quite lovely to look at--to spray on plants to ward off bugs but that won't hurt the butteryfly chrysillis or hummingbirds.  Right now she's after snails, which BTW use 40% of their food intake to produce the slime that greases their way.  Beer does work but not when the gardener pours a little and drinks a little, especially on hot afternoons.  Then it's even money on who goes down first, the snail or the gardener.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on May 31, 2007, 10:15:32 PM
Maddie,

You keep mentioning Amishmen and Mennonites. Do you live in Eastern PA? I grew up in Reading, and had lots of contact with those folks. My mother's family was plain ole Pennsylvania Dutch, both high german and low german. Mom's family had a family farm in Cumru Twnship, which I understand is still in the family name. They made the most scrumptous scrapple!!!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 12:07:51 PM
I work at the company that makes Gardenburger.  Anyone familiar with that brand?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 01, 2007, 12:14:48 PM
Trojan, isn't that the vegan burger made with soy?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 01, 2007, 12:26:32 PM
Bo, a few posts back you mentioned "my Weber".  Does that mean you decided on a Weber for your barbeque grill?  The little neighborhood hardware store I buy my Kingsford from doesn't (so far) have the grill wood you mention.  Like I said, my daughter is the grill person here at my house.  She uses mesquite soaked in water to smoke and put moisture in the closed grilling air.  That rocket style grill/smoker she's used for years has different levels to put the heat close to or far away from whatever is being cooked.  She makes a mean pulled pork and sets of ribs.  She starts the stuff the day before and keeps that heat close to what she wants for some 12-18 hours.  At first, lots of fiddling and sitting in a chair nearby reading a book.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 01, 2007, 12:29:31 PM
Trojan, isn't that the vegan burger made with soy?

We have a couple of Vegan products and some are made with soy.

Actually we have about 70 different products.  The founder Paul Wenner basically invented the Veggie Burger back in early 80s.  We have some pretty innovative things also like BBQ rib substitutes that are actually pretty tasty.

Anyway, this is why I am pretty familiar with Chinese sourcing...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2007, 12:31:15 PM
I'm out of synch now or off topic but Hi! donotremove

nytempsperdu re:#67

As you probably know, the Mexican community which came to stay and settle were the main labor force of the mushroom production, so I guess that answers your question as much as anything. As you probably also know, the Amish seldom have a need for migrant farm labor because they are distinctly, the ultimate, "family farming" group, when their families have no room to farm, the Amish migrate as they have always done. The friend and neighbour that I mentioned, as a carpenter used to supply the kinds of shelving used by the mushroom industry where the flats of mushrooms are grown, as a side-line to his family's farm work. Since they are dairy farmers,the Amish seldom produce the kind of crops,as in truck-farming, that are the support of the "migrating worker".  The Amish were still coming to Kennett to sell kitchen-garden produce in the alley "farm-mkt.", the last time I noticed. I suspect, they traveled in a Mennonite van because it beats me where they would have parked the buggies.  The mushroom outlets/shops for tourists or mushroom connoisseurs seem to change location as realty values go up on the route into Chadds Ford; I notice the condo group behind the local Superfresh(across from Genaurdi's) has doubled in size (I was going to say,"mushroomed") since I'd been out there but perhaps I just didn't notice last October when I introduced my visiting sister-in-law to The Book Barn!  She bought,Julia Child, what else

Ps,
nytempsperdu, this is merely the second half of my post to you which began describing Kennett Square as I knew it. I lost it, in my brilliant transfer from notes to post!  But,will get back to that later, to compare notes.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2007, 12:40:03 PM
weezo,re: #68,

I lived on the Lancaster county/Chester County line,exactly. This was a bit confusing at first until I made a lot of phone calls in both counties, about everything. It was succinctly, the farming life-style of my grand-parents, as I had a great-grandmother(parents from France,you'll love this: post-Napoleon's exile) who was born in this region). She took a slow Conestoga west and married a German-speaking cattleman. I seldom get to Reading until I get an awful craving for German dishes that are locally seldom part of the food repertoire down here; as you approach Reading from the south, about the time that you get to the crest of the "hill"(you know what I mean) that looks down upon the valley and the other "hills" beyond, there is a typical Bavarian restaurant,the Alpenhof, built into the hill above the road, with the parking lot on an embankment. In desperation, I sometimes have been known to go as far as Perkiomen(?) rather than miss  the memoirs of Wladyslaw Szpilman, by Roman Polanski, starring,Adrien Brody, in --The Pianist.

Isn't Cumru Twnship (we say, Twp, in New Jersey), a Welsh name?  I don't think that I've ever been curious about scrapple, although having eatten much fried corn-meal mush in my childhood; the Amish think of both as a breakfast food. My mother had a fondness for "sulze", which is just as bad or good depending on your taste for German folk dishes. I liked a peculiar sausage, just as odd, not indigenous to this region, which the Germans of New Jersey still serve at the annual summer folk fests up at Woodbridge/the Garden State Art Center. It is nearly as big around in diameter as a larger sized slice of baloney thickly sliced to be fried up hot on a bun rather than a hamburger; the taste indicates that it is related to Braunschweiger, because of the liverish flavor akin to leberwurst but I have no idea what the name would be? It is meant to be eatten outdoors and I recalled the taste from childhood when we went for outings of just children and mothers who were friends and knew how to grill these as treats in the park (followed by "s'mores" for dessert).


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 01, 2007, 01:32:11 PM
I work at the company that makes Gardenburger.  Anyone familiar with that brand?

I heart Gardenburgers!  In fact, we had them last night.  Though I will confess to also liking the Morningstar products.  Boca, not so much -- we tend to avoid them.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 01, 2007, 02:01:46 PM
Maddie,

I moved to Virginia in the mid-sixties, after a large influx of Puerto Ricans who were put to work raising mushrooms in large sheds on the edge of Reading. Last time I was in Reading, I did not see them there, but we didn't go far north of the city where they were. We buried my mother, and five of the six of us were together in one place for the first time in many decades. We explored some favorite haunts south of the Skuykill, some still there, some not, and ended the day with "wap jobs" from Screpsi's and they still tasted the same as always.

I don't know what bologna/sausage you mean. I don't think it's Lebanon Bologna, which is similar to Summer Sausage. Lebanon Bologna is widely sold in Reading and Lancaster, and once in a while I can get it at a local deli, especially in the summer months, because it keeps well. I like liverworst, but hubby does not, so I don't buy it very often. I do not like the commercial scrapple I can get around here, but when a restaurant where we all had breakfast in Reading had it on the menu, all of us girls had that while our hubbies & chilluns had steaks or sausage links.

There was a packing plant under the Bingaman Street Bridge, Berks Packing Company, that made exceptionally good hot dogs. I have never found any as good. Not Coney Island dogs on Coney Island, nor the Oscar Mayers that we eat instead of the local dogs.

Our mother was not a spectacular cook like her mother had been. Her older sisters were, but she never got the knack. But she made good shoo-fly pies, which I, too make well enough to make my Virginia-born hubby smack his lips! And she made a wonderful Butterscotch Pie with Merangue topping that was my father (from Ohio)'s favorite - he preferred it on his birthday to cake, and it was a staple at holiday dinners. The recipe is in my cookbook online, but neither I nor any of my sisters have tried to make it ourselves. It is a day's work, tedious, and require a double boiler, which I don't even have.




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 01, 2007, 10:21:07 PM
DoNot,I have three Weber charcoal grills.One is the small 18.5 inch which we only use on occasion for veggies and stuff if we are cooking a lot.The others are my ten year old black kettle and my pride a Simpsons limited edition Weber that was a gift from friends several X-Masses ago.I bought the Char-Wood at Raplhs which is Kroger owned and last week when I looked they don't have it anymore.So I have to search but Like I said it is good for quick cook but not the long slow low heat like ribs,pork and brisket.I use charcoal and woodchips for that and a good thermoter to keep the temp low.My neighbors have the propane grill out on our patio so we can cook for a crowd if we need to.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 01, 2007, 10:25:13 PM
Ilike the Garden Burger and Morning star stuff but don't do the burgers that much.I like the breakfast patties and still recall the first time I made them they looked so small I cooked a whole bunch not realising how DENSE they are.I still am not a fan of any veggie Bacon Strips.One of the chic-pattie brands is very good and I've tried the riblets they sell at trader joes in the freezer case.Forget which brand.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2007, 11:55:53 PM
Bosox18d re:#79, nytempsperdu re:#76, weezo re:#77

Inter-related food text here. About Shad and shad roe. I learned to appreciate it  when it works its way up the Delaware. I gather that John McPhee did too; when I noticed you kicking off  his Alaskan book at Meander, he has one dedicated to Shad as well (which probably began as an article that grew into a book) as he  grew up with them.

I pretty much missed the season this year, and for several as a matter of fact. What I call the "twin towns" of Lambertville, New Jersey, opposite New Hope, Pennsylvania celebrate annually with a Shad Festival.  The first time that I cooked up some roe, I said,"Oh, right..." --again recalling from the flavour that this was something my mother made a long time ago.

McPhee would have grown up with a lot more fish on the menu than are readily available today.  We had a neighborhood in common; his family had lived about half a block away on Maple between Spruce and Nassau street, years before. One afternoon, I discovered his book, The Crofter and the Laird, at the Witherspoon street public library; but not with other writings by McPhee. Instead, shelved by subject, it was with Scot's recipes, and I realized that I was about to find out what to do with some of the quaint items available at Davvison's grocery on the corner of Nassau and Maple.  Twenty years ago, it was still possible to have a breakfast of kippers.

My apologies to nytempsperdu, I expect that when I said Avon that I meant Avondale, great mounds of material are there going through the process of becoming fit to raise mushrooms upon. (Apparently, Avon is somewhere a great deal further north of Kennett, wereas Avondale is a mere 8 minutes away.) I order the Snapper soup,with the pitcher of sherry down at the Terrace, when at Longwood, because something has gone bonkers with their cooking.

Today, I bought Stuttgarter wieners, weezo, and will attempt to feel my way into a recipe of meat-sauce which makes it a chili-dog in New Orleans.  It's because of that donotremove who began talking about hot dogs before Memorial Day. 

By the way,pull out that Butterscotch pie recipe. It's one of my mother's as well that I had forgotten about and I know she did not make it with Jello Pudding!





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 02, 2007, 12:23:25 AM
Santa Monica Seafood has Shad Roe every spring flown in from back east.It is something I have never tried though maybe some day.Don't know if they sell the shad  as I never noticed but the roe looks delicate and beautiful.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 02, 2007, 12:27:16 AM
In Joseph Mitchell's fine"Up in the Old Hotel" there is a chapter on the old time shad fisherman on the Hudson River.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 02, 2007, 12:56:03 AM
I've been thinking and I can't recall one time my father or uncles went shad fishing in Western N.Y. growing up.I do recall them going smelting though and love those little fish to this day.I can't get em fresh but Santa Monica Seafood sells 1lb bags of small frozen ones from Canada under 5.00 and I go get a bag at least once a year.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 02, 2007, 01:03:21 AM
That was Jessica Savitch(sp). She grew up in Penn as I recall and went to either Cornell or Ithaca College.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 02, 2007, 01:24:41 AM
Maudupont,somewhere around here I have a book that is called something like "A John McPhee Reader" I'll look to see if there is anything on the Shad.I don't recall it though.It is amazing the New Yorker was blessed with writers like Mitchell and McPhee at different times.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 03, 2007, 01:39:03 AM
A final shad note.I talked to one of my uncles today and he told me they could not have gone shad fishing in Western,N.Y. because the Shad were long gone.He told me though they did exist in Lake Ontario at some time in the  distant past so I looked it up and they did but don't know if they actually came all the way through the St.Lawrence which seems far fetched or from another source.The shad I was thinking of as a kid are gizzard shad and are found in all the great lakes.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 03, 2007, 02:12:42 PM
Bo, I must have gotten you mixed up with someone else--a poster who was thinking of buying a grill and wantedadvice about what kind.  Sorry.  But, hey!, with all those Webers you've got all the bases covered, man.  Between you and the neighbor, you guys can cook for a crowd, that's for sure.  I keep hoping I'll win one of those sweepstake thingys and can afford to put a "kitchen" in my backyard.  Wonder if that would upset my bees?

This morning's Paula Deen on Food Network had her outside grilling on her hubby's humongous grill.  She even cooked the cornbread muffins on the thing.  Do you ever watch "License to Grill" on HGTV or DIY--I can't remember which?  That feller knows his way around a grill.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 03, 2007, 03:59:40 PM
The guy looking for the grill was liquidsilver who bless his heart set these forums up.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2007, 04:59:48 PM
Savitch grew up in Kennett Square, Pennsylvania, about thirty-five miles from Philadelphia.

On Sunday, October 23, 1983, Savitch had dinner with Martin Fischbein, vice-president of the New York Post, in New Hope, Pennsylvania. After the meal at Odette's Restaurant, they began to drive home about 7:15 PM, with Fischbein behind the wheel and Savitch in the back seat with her dog, Chewy. Fischbein may have missed posted warning signs in a heavy rainfall, and he drove out of the wrong exit from the restaurant and up the towpath of the old Delaware Division Canal on the Pennsylvania side of the Delaware River. The car veered too far to the left and went over the edge into the shallow water of the canal. After falling approximately fifteen feet and landing upside down, the station wagon sank into deep mud which sealed the doors shut. Savitch and Fischbein were trapped inside as water poured in. A local resident found the wreck at about 11:30 that night. Fischbein's body was still strapped behind the wheel, with Savitch and her dog in the rear. After the subsequent autopsies, the Bucks County coroner ruled that both had died from asphyxiation (by drowning). He noted that Fischbein was apparently knocked unconscious in the wreck but Savitch had struggled to escape. There was no finding that drugs or alcohol had played any part in the crash.[1][3]


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2007, 05:16:13 PM
She was only 36 years old.   

I often went up this way at the same season of the year to restaurants accessible by that tight drive narrow and high above the tow-path and Irish mule canal  on the Pennsylvania side. Houses are built right to the road as they are in Scotland, in fact it seems to me I had first gone up to the Gathering of the Clans and was shocked to discover that narrowness of access. Before through found a six-wheeler doubled-up  near the top of the steep ascent trying to turn around on that plateau where there are brick walls, it's a typical village, and he'd discovered that he would not be able to take that road down and would have to go back.

There are no overhead lights on this ascent or descent as the case may be. How in the world he could make this mistake in leaving New Hope is beyond me although anything is possible, and I had the experience of trying to get to Chef Tell's after a long trip from the Midwest back to New Jersey and arrived when the river was flooded and you had to detour because the bridges are not high enough or wide enough  for a crossing. In any case trucks never would be allowed.  Odette's is I believe what is now called the Black Tulip and located further south somewhere between Yardley and Newton.  But these restaurants move around,as do the chefs, they are all pretty bad.

Anyway, I would never dream of doing the ascent or descent after dark. If you read the description carefully, the fall from that narrow ledge is an inescapable reality and a horrible way to die.   I learned about it from a television production adapted from a book.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2007, 05:30:47 PM
I've been thinking and I can't recall one time my father or uncles went shad fishing in Western N.Y. growing up.I do recall them going smelting though and love those little fish to this day.I can't get em fresh but Santa Monica Seafood sells 1lb bags of small frozen ones from Canada under 5.00 and I go get a bag at least once a year.

We had smelts out of Lake Michigan, and I am now wondering what happened to willdurant of nytimes.com forums; of course, he lives somewhere in California now or did.   Take a hint from donotremove who likes cornbread. I always keep a canister with corn-meal around, and the smelts are dipped into corn-meal after rinsing, c-m which is salted and peppered, and they are put on a large baking sheet that has sides like the kind used for baking sheet-cake in Texas or sometimes known as a jelly-roll pan, to me it is a buche de noel cake pan for Christmas when I have a lot of patience.

My parents would do these to party-up in season, dotting the corn-meal coated smelts with dabs of bacon drippings, until they were baked crisp in the oven and then you eat them with beer.  They did a lot of weird entertaining.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2007, 05:47:44 PM
Bosox

The American Shad: Selections from the Founding Fish (2004) ISBN 1-886967-14-8   McPhee,John

"...but don't know if they actually came all the way through the St.Lawrence which seems far fetched or from another source."

Shad seem to do as salmon and swim up stream. That's the only way I can think to describe it. Although they come up the Delaware from the Atlantic as they do earlier in the South up other rivers. It would be a mistake to eat them from St. Lawrence. Another of our posters back at you know where, Okanta, went up to do an article at Akwasasne which is located on either side of the St. Lawrence, New York on one side,Ontario on the other, and wrote back to me that there on the reservation where Native Americans take most of their diet from fishing that river-- they have lost their reproductive capacity. Most people think I am talking about the fish when I say this. No, I am talking about the people on this reservation. It's the result of dumping of water out of the aluminum plants further north.

I don't know about Lake Ontario but Lake Erie west of New York was thoroughly pollutted by the time of the Vietnam war when I was up there on the Canadian side in Ontario.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2007, 06:29:57 PM
 Reply #93 continuation

 A very big P.S. glad to hear that donotremove rode out the storm. I haven't seen any news of it yet today. Here, in the East, we are preparing for the arrival of Barry, and I don't mean Obama, for the next several days of nonstop rain which already began flooding the Susquehanna.  Barry blew things around in Punta Gorda,Florida last I looked.

By the way, that other river--the Delaware also has another interesting hotel, like the book that Bosox has been recommending,Up at the Old Hotel, by Mitchell. It is the hotel of the lyrics,which go something like this: "There's a small hotel, with wishing well..."etc., across from New Hope on the New Jersey side but a little to the north of Lambertville, if I remember correctly. It's a bed and breakfast, with a restaurant that has odd colonial style murals on the walls.  However, I always forget which does the music and which the lyrics from Rogers and Hart?

Why these two towns became famous, in fact why a v.p. from the New York Post would be dining in the vicinity, began long ago on the show-biz route for summer-stock -- since this was a short cut to go from Broadway,Manhattan, or Connecticutt for that matter, and you had to stay somewhere overnight and have something to eat, if you drove down on your way to Philadelphia. This is the territory where actors,writers,painters (the New Hope American Impressionists), and other bohemians  liked to pretend they were having a summer vacation from work.  My favourite "up at the old hotel" story is at the Frenchtown Hotel further up river, every so often Nathaniel West (Day of the Locust) would come to stay there and then cross the river to visit his friend Josephine Herbst and her lover Jean Garrigue on the Pennsylvania side. Herbst had gone to Spain along with Hemingway and wrote about the Spanish Civil War, came back and worked in Washington,D.C, was fired because the government assummed she was a communist if she went to Spain when Hemingway did, her husband divorced her while he continued to work in D.C., if I got the story straight, I even forget his name but, he assummed that Josephine writing with Hemingway did not necessarily mean she was heterosexual. So the ladies lived in a small cottage, very run down by the time that I hunted it up.  The food at the Frenchtown Inn or Hotel was no better than it was down at "the wishing well, so no wonder Nathaniel West crossed the river to visit Josephine and Jean.

Somewhat south of there at Lumberville was where Paul Child and his twin brother built their log cabin while Julia sat on a log and watched. She wasn't a bad cook either. I don't bet she has a dandy for shad, however. I had to check out The New York Times Cook Book, by Craig Claiborne to refresh my memory of likely recipes.


Title: GardenBurger
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 04, 2007, 06:08:07 PM
I've tried the riblets they sell at trader joes in the freezer case.Forget which brand.

That would be us as we are the only major that has "Riblets"  A smaller player just tried to introduce them in the Club channel with moderate success.

GardenBurger Riblets have been getting a lot of PR lately and were on Good Morning America twice last month.

There are a number of clebrities that have "found" the riblets on their own.  We've not had the money to really market the products like Boca and Morningstar do...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 04, 2007, 06:35:04 PM
For me, the only advantage Morningstar offers is that they make crumbles.  I love crumbles because they make a nicely textured spaghetti sauce, taco/burrito/enchilada filling, and (sorry whiskeypriest) a superb stuffed cabbage filling.  Among other things for which you would use ground burger, like sloppy joes, etc.

The GB riblest sound neat -- I'll be sure to look for them.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 04, 2007, 07:12:54 PM
My son was visiting this week.  First time I've ever been to Trader Joe's.  We picked up a package of their Masala Burgers.....fantastic!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 04, 2007, 07:16:07 PM
Shad has a history in Virginia. The spring Shad runs were the time of political rallies, which were punctuated by planking the shad and setting it up to slow cook over the fires, while the menfolks sipped whiskey and talked politics. Shad was even a factor in one of the Civil War battles. At Five Forks, outside Petersburg, George Pickett and buddies has hooked some shad, and decided to have a Shad Bake on the day when the battle was a-gathering. They smoked that fish and sipped that whiskey until the battle was underway and the Angle had been overrun by the Da** Yankees. Aides helped the officers slip back to the battle lines even thought the Federals had already cut through behind the lines.

If you visit this battlefield, and followe Courthouse Road back to 460 and civilization, you will see a little lane marked Shad Bake Lane at the site where the dalliance took place.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 04, 2007, 07:22:49 PM
The big shad run just ended in CT a week or so ago. One of the local channels had a feature on boning, planking, etc.  The boning alone looked intimidating -- the elderly woman giving instruction said there were "only nine steps" or something like that.  She knew what she was doing, but the news guy who was trying to learn was having a tough time.  At the end, his fish looked like it had been through a propeller.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 04, 2007, 08:45:01 PM
For me, the only advantage Morningstar offers is that they make crumbles.  I love crumbles because they make a nicely textured spaghetti sauce, taco/burrito/enchilada filling, and (sorry whiskeypriest) a superb stuffed cabbage filling.  Among other things for which you would use ground burger, like sloppy joes, etc.

The GB riblest sound neat -- I'll be sure to look for them.

We have crumbles also, but not available at retail.  We are actually the leader in foodservice so if you have a vegetarian "crumbles" product like lasagna, etc in a University cafeteria for instance, chances are good it is our product...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 04, 2007, 09:42:46 PM
weezo   re:#99

I discovered a similar custom out on the West Coast of Wisconsin where the Democrats of Crawford county held a Cat-fish  cook-out sometime after the corn was ready to eat. Cat-fish is marvelous pulled out of the Mississippi river. It is unlike the stuff that is sold at supermarkets. When it isn't wild, it just isn't. So, I haven't had it again in years. It was on this occasion that I first found out about "the cheeks of the Cat-fish", large and meaty and a delicacy.  It is a very odd culture there with the smallest of small towns dying out because the young have left to work elsewhere. On one occasion, went out to the home of the party chairman for the county, an Irishman who had built his home on a triangle of land pushing out into the water where he could look down on the river at sunset and watch the barges coasting by on their way to Cape Girardeau, then further like a dream of Samuel Clemens downstream to Missouri.

Before and after that, I considered perhaps the finest life was cooking on one of the river-boats that ply their way from Cape Girardeau to New Orleans where you get a week off and then get on another boat going back to Cape Girardeau with a week off there as well(I can't imagine what one does there?). My how the world has changed since then.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 04, 2007, 09:56:26 PM
Maddie,

I need to look in my road atlas. I didn't realize the Mississippi was in Wisconsin. I've been to eastern Wisconsin on the shores of Lake Michigan, and up to the point between Lake Michigan and Green Bay, but never west of there.

I didn't know there was a cheek to catfish. I remember we had dinner with some friends in Brookly, ordered a whole fish, and our host, using his chopstick since we were in a Chinese restaurant, plucked out the cheek of the fish. I though he was going for the eye, which was already disconcerting me and I averted my eyes. When I looked back, he said it was the cheek he was after. I'm having a senior moment and can't remember the name of the black & white spotted fish.

I catch fish, but cannot handle cleaning them. After they are cleaned and the heads are gone, I take can take over. I'm squeemish!

My favorite is to catch some spots in the Chesapeake Bay, bring them to the beach alive, have hubby kill and clean them, and put them on a hot grill fire in a foil "boat". Turn once, and then eat. Croakers are also good, but the spots are truly heavenly when that fresh. I don't even bother to buy spots in the grocery store inland. They will be disappointing.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 04, 2007, 10:08:34 PM
Harrie re:#100

In the North, we eat planked fish, preferably if it is wall-eye pike. At Smith Bros. at Port Washington on Lake Michigan, they usually opt for cedar; and we are so fussy that we get to eat  surrounded by those squiggly little mashed potatoes pushed out of a pastry-bag to  brown at the finish just before the fish is served up.   There were also other marvelous things in the territory that I've begun to remember as a result of some of the nytimes.com articles on food-travel or travel to food when they tell you to go to Brooklyn, to Brighton Beach, or into Manhattan to the Russian Tea Room and then mention sturgeon. I guess that I've always known that Russians eat sturgeon

But at this time of year at least by July when it is good and warmed up, there are "Fish Boils" in the countryside at singular houses off in an emptiness just thirty years ago. I'm sure by now it has been all but filled in completely residentially so.  The reason that the houses were "singular" was because they were speak-easies during Prohibition to which one drove out from the city for about half an hour to an hour to a nice suburban house with Tudor architecture standing quietly along.  When you park your car and come in through the foyer and have hung your things in the coat-room, the first thing that greets you, on a small side board just the right size to hold it, is a smoked sturgeon about 2 feet long, to which you help yourself.  All the usual restaurant food is available on the menu  but at least once a week in the summer, one eats out back under a canopied open-sided  deck where a gigantic black pot is placed over an outdoor fire and in which are cooked potatoes, onions, corn and suitable lake fish, a cuisine loved by Scandinavians.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 05, 2007, 12:12:31 PM
There is a small restaurant chain in Southern California (started in Long Beach about 25 years ago) called Johhny Rebs, that serves catfish along with all sorts of Southern specialties.  They used to have the slogan,  "put a little South in your mounth"

I enjoy going there for breakfast for grits, biscuits and gravy  and occassionally for lunch or dinner for a sampling of the BBQ. 

But I used to fish in the California Delta as a kid, and caught many a catfish.  They are bottom feeders and frankly I could never get myself to try to eat one...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 05, 2007, 12:21:12 PM
That's funny about the bottom feeder thing, because when we're at the big family lobsterfest, my brother-in-law has to remind everyone that lobsters are bottom feeders and how can you eat that, etc. -- while he's chowing down on a hot dog (and not Hebrew National or any good brand product, if there such thing).  BLECCCHHH! 

Lobster I can sort of take or leave, but I could eat another famous bottom feeder, the clam, every day for years and not get tired of them.  I don't care if I get polluted and croak, I will go happy.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 05, 2007, 01:33:11 PM
Now that you mention it, on NPR a while back there was a story about US catfish farms vs. Chinese catfish farms and Chinese catfish testing positive for a few banned antibiotics.  The American catfish farmers were adamant that you really don't want to eat imported catfish, and now they have backup; according to the US farmers, the Chinese catfish are kept in such squalid conditions that they need the antibiotics to live long enough to....well, die.  Hence the traces showing up. In fact, in a couple of southern states, importing catfish is illegal, I think.  Again, one more arguement for eating local. 

As for the lobsterfest, you're welcome to go in my place -- these events always seem to extract a pound (or more) of flesh in some way.  (Which I wouldn't mind if it was evenly deducted from the buttocks...)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 05, 2007, 01:37:46 PM
Here's the NPR story. 

http://tinyurl.com/2bbryu


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 05, 2007, 02:09:18 PM
Oh, lucky you in SF!  You get fresh veggies and stuff for a good portion of the year, no?  I'm in CT,with a pretty short growing season.   We have a state law that fish counters have to display whether the fish on sale is wild or farmed, so that's a help.  Though you can usually tell -- the bluefish is definitely wild and local; the snapper, not so much.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 05, 2007, 02:27:57 PM
harrie - the farmed catfish in this country is worse than bottom-feeders considering that Wisconsin is the northern part of the Mississippi river, or think in terms of when the Sieur de La Salle sailed down it from Canada and had to wait until Spring camped among the Native Americans who accompanied him --so that the ice would break with a crashing roar and allow them to proceed further down the river which he was exploring. The fished Wisconsin area(Minnesota on the other, then Iowa,Missouri opposite Illinois) boasts a rushing blue water that used to scare me half to death because of the disrepair of the bridges during the Depression,although this happened again for about a decade when there was no direct contact between Prairie du Chien and the Iowa side  because a flood took out some of the bridge (never was much traffic on either side for that matter).  

Catfish like all other, not marked as "Wild" when you go to the store, farm-raised fish are fed pellets(Salmon get coloring in their pellets)and may include supplies of food from China that we now know have fake protein enhancer such as melamine plastic that made such attractive kitchen utensils, mixing bowls(I had one in an odd blue not quite turquoise that I loved. Irreplaceable today maybe because the Chinese decided to put it in pet food?)but that was back in the 1960s and the food additive problem is something that we have today.

Trojanhorse --Does anybody know the relationship of the catfish to bullheads?

The antibiotics are fed to fish, as they were in this country until recently if that has changed(?), because of the crowded conditions in the nets/holds that keep them together.

Anyway, the region with the delicious wild catfish hasn't the sweep of brown water that you take for granted in the South when you look at the Mississippi described rightly so as old man river just keeps moving along sweeping tons of farmland soil along with it to the delta.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 05, 2007, 02:32:24 PM
harrie,

Now that's one that I never got used to --bluefish. Although it is served constantly at the Jersey Shore which lost my favourite fish restaurant sometime when I wasn't looking. The bluefish is however more of a home specialty served at least once aweek when brought home by patient fisherman in what used to be the suburbs but became impossible places to live during the "Summer Season".


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 05, 2007, 02:48:55 PM
madupont,

Don't get me wrong, I don't eat farmed fish if I can possibly avoid doing so, for precisely the reasons you cite.  However, the fish farmers in the story maintained that, compared to Chinese fish farms, theirs were positively pristine. 

Bluefish -- I will never eat it again.  When I was young, we caught a bumper crop (so to speak) of them one summer/fall and the freezer was crammed with them. I was the first one of the family to boycott bluefish about midway through the following winter (including sitting at the table for hours because I wasn't excused until I ate said fish), but others soon followed suit.  I think the dog ended up eating the rest of the catch (it was very carefully boned for him).   These many years later, I see it in the fish case -- wild and cheap -- and just say "no thank you" to the fish guy. 

A friend once likened it to the summer phenomenon where you cruise supermarket parking lots looking for cars with open windows, into which you throw your extra zucchini.  If only that would have worked for bluefish.....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 05, 2007, 02:58:46 PM
Anyway, that praise of the Mississippi, first word that I learned to spell as a child, reminds me before I forget that I meant to leave a message for donotremove about another meat source -- from that upper West Coast of Wisconsin territory that everyone is familiar with in terms of:
La Farge dairy products. I had many an exciting experience up there in Vernon County.

Try   www.organicprairie.com



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 08, 2007, 02:41:34 AM
I noticed in Wed NYTimes food section an article about Patricia Wells.There is a recipe in it for Zucchini Carpaccio w/avocado.Several years ago she had one just for Zucchini Carpaccio which I made on a summer visit to Rochester.It was very very good.In the original recipe she said you needed fresh Zuccchs and as a fan of the Beef version I was blown away by this one.Texture was pretty much the same minus a bit of chew factor.I lkie the thought of adding avocado but the taste and texture would really be different.On Wells my brother gave me her"Bistro Cooking" cookbook well over twenty plus years ago and it is one of my faves.The Rabbit in Mustard Sauce which I usually do with Chicken Thighs instead always has my guests asking for recipe.The only thing I do different is use a lot more Dijon than she calls for to coat chicken but it gets so mellow with cooking and I add mushrooms and garlic.But like the recipe it is excellent eaten with a bottle of Morgon.Jean Descombe(sp) is a favorite.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 08, 2007, 02:56:17 AM
Maud,Not sure what you mean by relation of Catfish to Bullheads but Bullheads are a type of Catfish.The most common catfish are the Channel and the Blue I believe.These can both get very large.Bullheads generally have broader heads and do not get over 8pds.As a kid I thought bullheads were those that hung out in the muddiest water or under stream banks but any catfish will do that.The first time I caught one in the county park below my parents house I paid a friend two dollars to unhook it for me.The scariest thing I ever caught was a large eel from the St.Lawrence River but the folks next to me and my brothers said they were good eating and I told them you take it off the hook it's yours.I was ten at the time and now fresh water eel is one of my favorite Sushi fishes.Back then I would not touch the things with a ten foot pole.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on June 08, 2007, 10:25:19 AM
One man's meat is another man's poisson.






Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 08, 2007, 10:26:54 AM
 :D :D :D :D :D :D


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 08, 2007, 11:27:12 AM
One man's meat is another man's poisson.





Take that to the humor forum where it belongs.

GROAN


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 08, 2007, 12:00:21 PM
Butterscotch Pie

Awhile back someone expressed interest in how to make an old-fashioned, labor intense Butterscotch pie. Here is the link to the recipe on the Pemberton Book Book:
http://www.enabling.org/pemberton/Cookbook/recipes/ButterscotchPie.htm

If you try it, let me know if anything in the directions needs improvement, since I've never tried it myself - I don't have a double-boiler.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 08, 2007, 12:46:45 PM
Yep.  I'm still here, lurking.  You guys are all so interesting (and much smarter than me, besides) I just get a kick from "listening."

But now, catfish, I know something about.  Bosox is right about the "difference" between channel cat and bullhead cat.  And, man!, I love 'em all.  The more down and dirty the better.  I love that "muddy" flavor.

Lord knows what wild cats are eating today, what with the pollution being washed into streams and rivers from evil stuff being poured and dumped on the lands of the watersheds.  Jaysus, it's killing the ground, the trees, the animals, the water, and US.  And the farmed kind?  Well, if you want to get your daily dose of corn--I mean we all got to eat X amount you know so ADM and Cargill can get rid of all that corn additive the make from the taxpayer financed subsidized corn (that keeps the price seemingly cheap, but not really if you paid any attention at all in 7th grade arithmetic)--from fish, then jump right in.  I don't know which is worse to die from, polluted wild or polluted farmed catfish.

Mmm.  Maybe it's better when I just lurk. :)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 08, 2007, 01:06:09 PM
You bring up a good point about naturally occurring (for lack of a better term) pollution and farm pollution.  I believe the farmed fish -- because they are kept in enclosures with sometimes putrid, sometimes recycled water -- test much higher for undesirable substances, like PCBs, etc. At least with an open ocean fish, for example, he's got a larger pool to swim in, and thus toxins are less concentrated in the flesh of the critter.  Hopefully, anyway.

For me, truly local fish would come from either the Housatonic River -- not a good choice, Google "GE Housatonic" -- or Long Island Sound.  The water quality in the Sound has improved vastly over the last 20 years; but still, sometimes I wonder about those delicious little bottom-feeding, water-filtering clammies that I love so much.  But hey, I'm not dead yet.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 09, 2007, 10:43:45 AM
Harrie, praise the gods for the little clammies.  They work so hard to refresh the water they're in.  If not for them, and other water cleansing properties, water "dies."


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on June 09, 2007, 12:17:18 PM
Regarding seafood that eats crud from the bottom, I will note that the term "bottom feeder" has become part of the common parlance and is not a term of flattery or approbation.  As far as eating toxins and the like, I tend to look at where a creature is on the food chain.  Lower on the food chain is better, as toxins are less likely to be so concentrated in the tissues.  I'm guessing that tuna are so hazardous because they are "top predators."  Find something that the tuna eats, and then find what that creature eats, and you're probably on safer, uh, ground.

The main reason I'm picky about seafood is that I don't much like it.   Shrimp is okay and, since it's one of the few sea animals I like, I don't think about where or on what it feeds.  During the shrimping scenes of Forrest Gump, I just nodded off and preserved my innocence.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 10, 2007, 12:00:46 AM
Bosox17d  Re:#117 "Not sure what you mean by relation of Catfish to Bullheads but Bullheads are a type of Catfish"

That's kind of what I thought. I first became acquainted with them in the watering trough  that the cows used when exiting the barn on their way back to pasture. You could watch them slowly browsing, deeper down in the trough, they would turn in a curve that could convince you that they were cruising with a ton of weight, then dart.

I found this so exciting that I decided to show this to one of the my grandmother's barn cat's kittens and was holding it up to take a look at the whiskers on the bullhead, when its Mom came barreling from somewhere suspecting the kitten was about to be drowned. It didn't get me; I had a lot of cousins, plus uncles. It was in fact pretty much a masculine domain,  to all appearances.  My grand-mother, her daughter-in-law Alice, and myself. Each with our respective duties.  Grandma Fini baked bread in the winter kitchen about twice a week, as well as most of the meals in the summer kitchen, and the washing up, going berrying when she was fed up with all of us, tucking herbs into the deep pockets of her ankle-length apron as she went into the forest.

When the sun began to set, my uncles would tease as I worried when she would be back. "Maybe a bear got her," they would tease; but, then she would be seen returning along the back line of the pasture with two berrying buckets suspended from a yoke over her shoulders. At such times, Alice made supper.

Alice was in charge of incubating the eggs into chicks. On occasion, she would step into a pair of men's overhalls and boots, and load up the non-incubating eggs, hop into the truck with the gear shift and drive up to the village to sell them.  My own experiences with hand me down Levis were very annoying because I'd been sent out to the nests to bring in the breakfast eggs, and hated to lift the chickens off their nests. My grandmother would then proceed to demonstate what you did so that you didn't have to pick them up at all.  It was that long apron; she would just flap it and they would scuttle right off their nests. It wasn't fair. Also those metal buttons were a difficulty in the days of the outhouse. But there weren't any little girl's clothes on the farm and I was expected not to dirty mine because I followed the men in the fields all day.

Grandma Fini tended her flower garden circles around the front and side of the house. They say that when she was at home before she married, that she sold them in bouquets to young men courting who would come and jingle the bell at the gate of the garden wall, to pick up the flowers to take with them in the evenings of summer.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 10, 2007, 12:29:19 AM
I was walking by my used bookstore today which has been closed for 5 weeks cause Andy the 71 year old owner had a mild heart attack.I've heard all sorts of rumors including one from old poster avoice who also is in L.A. that he had sold the stock to Powells.But his friend was in store today unpacking books and says he thinks Andy is coming back soon.Anyhoo I spied a first edition of"The Founding Fish" he had just unpacked and bought it for 7.50.Now I can read about Shad to my hearts content.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 12, 2007, 09:29:11 AM
Glad you brought that up again, Shad, as regards roe. Here's what our President had for lunch while in Italy on his grande tour. It is known as Bottarga. He had it on a nice pasta.

http://www.gustiamo.com/cgi-bin/front_end/prodotto?id=28#


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 12:07:53 AM
Butterscotch Pie

Awhile back someone expressed interest in how to make an old-fashioned, labor intense Butterscotch pie. Here is the link to the recipe on the Pemberton Book Book:
http://www.enabling.org/pemberton/Cookbook/recipes/ButterscotchPie.htm

If you try it, let me know if anything in the directions needs improvement, since I've never tried it myself - I don't have a double-boiler.

Weezo,

No problem. The recipe says "Low" heat  so I cooked it over direct heat without a double-boiler, using a whisk.

Not having done a pie of this kind for quite awhile, it was a bit like reliving 8th.grade Home Economics class if you know what I mean? The trick is getting that bit of flour into the egg yolks, I try for half of the flour at the start but you can easily overdo it too quickly and then add the milk too quickly. So in fact I use two whisks: one for the butter,sugar,water combination(preferably the long handled whisk; and a short whisk for combining the flour into the egg yolk. I think what I would try next is to whisk the yolk and add milk to it before adding flour and see if that sequence is easier.

My impression was -- this is too much "pudding" to fit in one pie-shell, to which a topping of meringue will be added as well. But, no, it fits quite well. I always use a larger sheet, like a pizza pan on which I place the pie pan, to handle getting it into the oven.  The real trick is to remember to start applying the meringue from the extreme edge, do that around the entire diameter before plopping in a blob at the center and joining it up. The reason for this is not to let the crust be exposed to "burning".

As usual, I was appalled at how quickly the meringue browned, although the recipe says to "put the pie back in the oven for 30 minutes". I already know that will not be the case. Into the oven with the pie, and I sat at the computer looking at something, finding my place when suddenly I could smell the butterscotch! I jumped up as quickly as possible because I got to the oven not a second too fast as the meringue was already a nice golden light brown in less than eight minutes!  So whereas you were concerned about the double-boiler, I have a hot oven.

You would not really need a double-boiler. If you have a pan in which you are starting the butter,sugar,water, and another that is a bit larger and shorter into which you can place it, you are set with a bain-marie. The trick is to put in less water than you at first imagine; although, on second thought, this is a slow thickening butterscotch so you wouldn't want the water to run out, to evaporate over the heat before your butterscotch is thickened.  You shouldn't stop the cooking by putting in cold water --into a hot pan!  What I am reminded of is that in the old days a heavy tea-kettle was kept on the stove at all times with heated water, which meant you could raise the water level in the "double-boiler" anytime you wanted to, as long as you lifted up the thickening butterscotch sauce pan to avoid diluting the butterscotch accidentally with water.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating but it is not quite as chilled as I like it quite yet.   I am in mind to look for those McPhee type Scots recipes for a comparison to see how they vary. Scots do adore butterscotch in all forms, not only pie, but cake and cookies,and candies, etc. So, I'll see what is in the collection.

Thanks again for the recipe!




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 13, 2007, 07:46:30 AM
Maddie,

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences in trying the Butterscotch Pie recipe. After you taste the pie and pronounce it tasty, I will incorporate your suggestions into the recipe on the web site. As I said, while I like to eat the pie on the special occassions when Mom spent a day making it, I was not terribly kitchen-oriented growing up to notice how she did it. Before she developed Dementia, she wrote out all of her recipes and gave a set to each of her six daughters, so we have all had the recipe, but not a one of us has ever tried to make it.

Anne


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 01:13:33 PM
As usual, weezo, I spoke too soon. Although the pie was put cooled off into the refrigerator to chill, and had been nicely thickened, it reverted.
Back to "sauce". A very rich sauce but nontheless not thickened and set to cut into slices! Yikes./

Now, we will never know.  If your Mom was anything like mine that's the secret. My mother used to make a dessert that we looked forward to, which we called Snow (something or other)-- that obviously had beaten eggs whites, gelatin and sugar but, in what proportion?, ladled  into a square pan until it set up. It was then cut into large square proportions and delicately covered in graham-cracker crumbs that we used to roll with a rolling-pin between two pieces of wax-paper before plastic bags.  were invented.

You could not exactly roll the squares in the crumbs, it took much more delicate handling, a sprinkle here, a turn there, you get the picture, but it always came out perfect for Mom, who then had made and chilled a perfect butter sauce,  from the left over egg yolks, more sugar and butter, that was poured over individual servings at some point during the Winter Holidays, either Christmas or New Year.  It always astounded mother's friends, and was a special treat to all of us kids.

One year in a bout of nostalgia, I asked her for the recipe, she went in search of it and came up with a recipe card sent to me in the mail but, as I read it over,what she called, "Floating Island"(and I was familiar with that appelation among others, common to French desserts), it didn't add up, something was missing, and that was when I knew that she didn't remember it, exactly....

Neither of my sisters know how to make it. They were thirteen and fourteen years younger than me. To this day they ask me for recipes for very simple dishes that mother used to make, some very typical of those in your recipe book as I looked over your family collection, that came from "Pennsylvania Dutch" origins or actual Dutch origins.  Quite often things that anybody can figure out and by improvisation come up with their own variation such as "Corn Pudding" which Mom knew as Escalloped Corn eatten in winter from "canned corn"(now that's tricky preserving corn in canning jars before the Amana freezer was invented),the proverbial crushed crackers, eggs, cream, salt and pepper.

Ps. One of the explanations offered for Fastnachts threw me for a loop, that it was "a way to finish off the sugar before Lent".

Not among the Amish, who do not fast. Lent is not particularly different from the rest of the year since they are not "Church" but "Gemeine" oriented. Their explanations, in a territory where the winds are so fierce, it was their form of insurance to use up all the fat from the Fall butchering season that had been rendered and this had to be used before the weather turned warm as it does by June and not even in May, because it would turn rancid and could not be kept.  They say -- if you fry fastnachts, you can be sure the wind won't blow the roof off your house! 

Or, as the "English" would say, the Amish eat like "trenchermen" the year round. Even the women.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 01:27:28 PM
Weezo,

one other Ps. -- your recipe for Kedgeree is what I previously mentioned to bosox, as a John McPhee neighborhood staple when we were growing up. Finnan Haddie was something you got to eat for breakfast on special occasions.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 13, 2007, 01:31:56 PM
Maddie,

I am so sorry that the pie didn't turn out. I think I will take it off the website so no one else wastes time and ingredients if it doesn't work.

When Daddy died, Mom stopped making Butterscotch Pie, and it was perhaps 15 years later than she gave us all her recipes. So, by that time she may have forgotten something she did. My boys grew up believing that Butterscotch Pie started with a cooked Jello pudding mix, topped with merangue, or whipped cream. I have always been somewhat clumsy, and did not do separating eggs well.

My second husband, a native Virginian, loves Shoo Fly Pie, and I haven't made it much since the boys grew up and left home. But, we had a luncheon after we interred Mom over Daddy two years ago, and asked the Ramada Inn to provide Shoo Fly Pie, which they did and got good ones. Now, the Shoo Fly Pie recipe in my cookbook is well documented. I wrote it up including my margins notes in my Dutch cookbook.

Oh, those recipes for the Dutch/Netherlands deserts came from an email friend in the Netherlands.

I have a few Pa Dutch cookbooks. I'll look in them and see if I have a Floating Island recipe. Maybe it will be the one you are looking for. Probably not, your mother probably did something unique to her, just as I put the spices for dry bottom shoo fly pie in my wet bottom pies, since I really don't care much for the dry bottom ones, but like the spiciness of them.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 13, 2007, 03:38:16 PM
Oh, no that's all right, I was using up the "lasts" of things which will now gradually be replaced by autumn weather which becomes gingerbread season.

I think I know what might have been the mishap or mistake but this is just a guess. It may have been necessary to simmer the water just under a boil with the dark sugar until it forms the "ball stage" similar to candy or frosting making where you take something like a medium-width basting brush and keep pushing down the sugar crystals that spatter back about the liquid level in the simmering pot. Then butter is added.

Don't worry about the Floating Island, that's another old European thing that kids love, which I'm sure is floating around here as is.  The tricky one is this season's Schaum Torte, which stretches from Strawberry to Raspberry season, then extended beyond with just Chocolate syrup over icecream in the torte shell, after the berries are done for the year.  It can not be made in the weather that we've been having here lately. You need dry weather for it to come out of a long stay in a slow oven(at a low temperature) --something equally undesirable in very hot weather!--otherwise, instead of becoming crisp, it remains like a meringue, a bit too rubbery for those who are actually looking forward to the brittle, flaking away texture of Schaum torte contrasting to the juicy berries over the cold ice cream.

Another method to cut off the discomfort, was to place the beaten egg-white/sugar meringue, on a designated circle drawn on parchment paper after the oven had reached a regular moderate to hot oven temperature which was then turned off and the torte was left in the oven overnight without the door ever being opened!

We had the longest day of thunder and lightening storms, yesterday, starting a little earlier than the time right now, an the down-pour did not let up until well into the night. Rather than tornado coming from the southwest, in many places it was caused by this storm which was technically a Northeaster or an Atlantic storm that turns around into land and comes down along, inside, the coast-line. Although it began to hit locations toward the east of us and closer to the Atlantic, there were places directly southeast of us that had no rain storms whatsoever. Other areas in the South began to have sizable hail storms.

We expect one or two more days of this to possibly erupt spontaneosly. In other words, not very good schaum torte  dessert weather.

I became familiar with Dutch recipes in my childhood when my father met a schoolfriend while he was in medical school and who then became our dentist. He and his wife (and of course two sons and a daughter) were accustommed to Dutch cooking and apparently my mother learned some recipes from Mrs. Knauer; other's she may have learned from her own sister-in-law.  I noticed your note about the word :"beguine". You see for many relatives and their neighbours to come from further inland  Europe in the mid-19th.century, they had to follow the rivers down from the Ardennes region to the Atlantic coast at Belgium and embark at Antwerp.

The beguines are fascinating places and also persons. Cloistered nuns with walled gardens but there are intermediaries who regularly leave the convent to do the shopping! Apparently, they are so bizarre, that "non-religious" people note their strange habit and behaviour.

There are some Dutch settlements in Wisconsin as well as the better known in Michigan. The Wisconsin community produced the actor Willem Dafoe whose father was also a doctor.

While living in New Jersey, I went each year to something known in Dutch as a Tentoonstellung or yearly fair held by the Dutch Reformed Church usually in November as part of the Christmas preparations at which you could buy knitted and hand-sewn presents, paperwhite bulbs to force for the winter season, there was a resale shop as well, and a raffle of rummage sale, as well as home-repaired antiques, at which all the old-timers wore their Dutch clothing, while selling landscaping shrubbery, or just being a greeter at the door. The food served for luncheon was delicious, gouda and edam and apple cake and pea soup, which awakened my interest in Dutch cooking again.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 13, 2007, 03:54:14 PM
Ps. One of the explanations offered for Fastnachts threw me for a loop, that it was "a way to finish off the sugar before Lent".

Not among the Amish, who do not fast. Lent is not particularly different from the rest of the year since they are not "Church" but "Gemeine" oriented. Their explanations, in a territory where the winds are so fierce, it was their form of insurance to use up all the fat from the Fall butchering season that had been rendered and this had to be used before the weather turned warm as it does by June and not even in May, because it would turn rancid and could not be kept.  They say -- if you fry fastnachts, you can be sure the wind won't blow the roof off your house! 

Or, as the "English" would say, the Amish eat like "trenchermen" the year round. Even the women.

Maddie,

There were also a lot of catholics among the Pa Dutch, and my mother was catholic, so that is probably where it came from. Funny thing was that like you say, the Amish ate well all year, and so did we. If one of us wanted to "give up desert for lent", that was OK. Everyone else had desert. Desert was part of the meal. Of course in older, leaner years, that may not have been the case and perhaps that's where the saying came from.

Kegeree came from websites. I have it marked "traditional", so I probably saw it the same on several websites. I remember making it as a young bride and not knowing that you had to boil the salt out before putting it in the sauce. It was so salty that no one could get enough water the rest of the evening! I didn't make it from a recipe, but just made a cream sauce  plunked the cubed fish in it, and put it over (what else) noodles - My usual throw things together and hope for the best!

Went to the farm stand today with a mouth for strawberries, only to find out it has been too hot and the strawberries are done for the year. Will have to go to the grocery store, which was in the other direction some thirty miles - so settled for peaches. It's too hot to cook them, so I think I'll cut them up and put some sugar or honey on them. Or maybe brown sugar. We have some of those cake cups for strawberries, that hubby likes, I prefer mine on biscuits or waffles.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 13, 2007, 04:07:25 PM
Maddie,

One of my sisters lives in Michigan, another in Wisconsin, so I am aware of the German/Amish/Mennonite communities there. There is also a Mennonite area in north-western Virginia. It was funny - I went as a parent chaperone to Luray Caverns when son John was in middle school. We lived in Richmond, and his school, recently integrated, was mostly black students. (The whites had fled the city for the 'burbs). So we arrived, two bus loads at Luray, and the kids were dressed like urban kids, complete with boomboxes on their shoulders. When we were finished with our tour and were boarding the buses, up pulled a schoolbus load of Mennonite children in their traditional plain dress. Can you imagine these two cultures just standing, mouths gaped, staring at each other? It was a moment to treasure. But, I've never been up in that part of the state on my own to try the restaurants or food outlets. Maybe, now that hubby is retiring, too, we can think about doing some traveling, especially in the fall when the harvests are in!

My doctor did his residency in Lancaster. I found it out one time when I was in for a pap smear and the nurse was trying to get me to rutch down on the table, and I was distracted and missed what she was saying, so I said, "Oh, we want me to rutch down", at which my doctor whirled around and remarked on the word "rutching". He said when he worked the maternity ward in Lancaster, he had the women "rutching" all over the place. I've since met his mother, who wrote a children's book that is very good, and she was going with him last month when he did a update session at the same hospital, and she was hoping to again sample Pa Dutch country. She's diabetic, so I couldn't recommend any deserts, but I did suggest she sample some scrapple if she could. I didn't get chance to talk to her before she left for the Bermuda's. That is one "on the move" old lady!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 13, 2007, 09:42:42 PM
A made the pie too, but I had a bad feeling about the water, so I left it out.  I mixed the flour, sugar and salt together in my saucepan, then slowly stirred in the milk (2 cups, instead of 1 1/2 to make up for taking out the water.)   Cooked it slowly over low heat...stirring constantly.  After it thickened, I cooked it about 10 minutes longer, stirred occasionally.

Beat the eggs in a separate bowl, then add some of the hot mixture to the eggs...stir so that the eggs don't start to clot....then add the egg mixture into the rest of the brown sugar mixture.  Cooked for a about a minute, until it looked right to me.  Stir in the vanilla and butter (or margarine).  Cool.

Pour into pie shell and merangue it.  I baked the merangue at 325 for 15 minutes. (only because it took me years to learn to make merangue that doesn't weep, and that's how I generally bake it now). 

And the recipe is delicious!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 13, 2007, 10:29:35 PM
Laurie,

Thanks for your bravery and your comments! I looked up Butterscotch Pie in another dutch cookbook and it said to cook in the double boiler until it reaches the "soft ball stage". Perhaps in adding that extra 10 minutes you achieved the same point.

Knowing Mom, she probably cooked it until it "looked right", either its thickness on the spoon or perhaps the softball stage tested in a glass of water. We were not allowed underfoot when she did this gift of love for my Dad.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 13, 2007, 11:18:38 PM
Anne....eggs were quite a different matter in some of the older recipes.   They were probably a bit smaller than the grade A Large we eat today.  That would have an effect on the amount of liquid used and the consistency of the finished product.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 14, 2007, 01:04:41 AM
We used to have Kegeree quite often when I was growing up.  It was a dish handed down through my father's family from his grandmother, who came over from Scotland.  My mother made it with a salted codfish that came packaged in a wooden box and we ate it over mashed potatoes.  And always with homemade bread.

When I think back to the taste, I doubt she did more than rinse the cod...it was very salty.  When I was growing up, my mother cooked with salt, and we added more at table. 

I use very little salt now, but that supper was lovely....the saltiness of the cod played against the warm bread slathered with sweet butter, and if it was near my father's payday, we'd have glasses of whole milk over ice along side rather than the nasty powdered stuff we usually drank.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 14, 2007, 02:31:49 PM
weezo,   re:#136

"There is also a Mennonite area in north-western Virginia."

I first found out about that when they did an exhibition of quilts at The People's Place, in Intercourse, and I think that it was billed as ,"Historic Quilts from Pennsylvania and The Great Valley",the latter referring to Virginia.  At the time, I was in search of the dark color quilts that covered all the beds in my grandmother's house back in the 1930s. Of course, today,they are made to order by Amish women who quilt together like "women's clubs"(for the gossip, since there are no men around) in various quilting rooms set up (that reminds me of my favourite word in their language, "I have to 'ret up'..." ), sometimes on an every other week basis and most definitely at home during the Winter months.

I was very surprised to find Amish ladies attending the rummage sales of local "English" churches and buying up bundles of old clothes(from which the original quilts were made, inherited by grandmother or done by her many sisters and herself for their hope chests,from piecing together patch-pieces cut from worn out farm clothes, which is where they got their delicious black framings. Men wore brush-down clothes in that era). But, then my common sense clicked in and I realized they were collecting material to be recycled into quilting projects.

My real surprise was at the exhibit itself, a very small two room arrangement to show some chronological samples of the patterns indigenous to the Amish, and those anything goes styles preferred by the Mennonite women, and where there were cross-over patterns between them, according to the contact with other Europeans during the Mennonite exodus.  Photos or rather daguerreotypes framed and displayed on the walls along with the Mennonite quilts showed me quite clearly that in family-posed-for-posterity-sittings -- men wore mustaches because "it was a Southern custom".  What was meant by this was that Southerners have military customs, which the Mennonites previously eschewed along with the Amish;but "when in the South, do as the Southerners...".  You will find adaptations of this kind have continued to take place as they always have historically, which of course has been the reason for the migrations within the United States.

Although today,the cause is more evidentally the search for arable soil. The Lancaster Amish brought them to Wisconsin after I left; and why did they come. Land was $325 per acre 25 years ago.  Of course, how did they know about it?  I had the sheriff come up to me in the local cafe where I read the newspaper from the State capital free while having my coffee, and he asked if I would like to come along with him where some kids were setting up homesteading with their children and goats in his county.  I said something the equivalent of, "Land sakes, haven't you see any Amish before?  I saw them in the laundromat a couple of weeks ago..."

In this area, the local residents were either Irish or Scandinavian like Lake Wobegon and were not familiar with seeing what they called "hippies" a couple of decades after the fact, although my favourite farmer(of Irish descent) had hired on as many as he could afford to feed, because he said  "he looked so hungry, he could have eatten the buttons off my shirt".  Thus the sheriff who was a farmer himself, raising beef cattle, but who had also taken a degree in sociology and social work, had never seen a real live Hippie, he was too young.  I had to explain to him that the bearded young men(without mustaches) and the girls with their hair tied back under cotton scarves were "Amish" who had crossed the river from the Iowa side to homestead for themselves(they still pioneer)but, without explaining to him they were a breakaway faction because they disagreed about something which they intended to do differently and this was the way it was done.  How did I recognize them? I could tell by the guys' suspenders. Whole communities have in the past haggled about the correct form of how their suspenders are to be worn. Such things are talked about in the "quilting rooms".


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 14, 2007, 03:25:58 PM
Maddie,

Years ago, I spend a week visiting Mom when she lived in Manitowoc on the shores of Lake Michigan. We decided to take a day's outing driving up the peninsula to where green bay and Lake Michigan and Lake Superior come together. On the way up, we stopped here and there at barns and antique shops. In several of the stops, we found familiar Pa Dutch cookbooks there for sale as used books. I was on a shoestring budget, and Mom had a tight grip on her wallet, or we would have filled up the rental car and had then no place to put what we'd bought. A couple of years later, Mom had to go in a nursing home with demential that eventually took her life, so it was the last trip I ever took with my Mom as I prefer to remember her.

It was strange to see that the people in that watery environment rarely went in the water to swim. It's too cold. They sunned on the small beaches or plied the water in boats. So different from Chesapeake Bay in Virginia where people alternate between sunning on the beach and cooling off in the warm waters of the bay and its rivers.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 14, 2007, 03:54:18 PM
weezo,

One of my mother's nursing school chums eventually moved up there to Manitowoc.  On one similar up the North Shore of Lake Michigan trip back in the Sixties, I managed to find a wonderful plant(maybe this should be over in Garden?) that the Native Americans of the area used for scrubbing out cooking pots, so did the Europeans for that matter, known as equisetum, I've seen it in only two places thus far in my lifetime. When I got it home, from where it had been growing at the cold-water edge near the rocky spills they use to keep the erosion down, I placed it right under my  outdoor water-tap in the back-yard.  Unfortunately, I forgot to take it with me when I moved on.  I ran into it again in Hopewell, New Jersey, obtained some from a vast bedding of it grown by one of the locals who was running a restaurant, I think that she kept it in a shallow pond, I planted it very close to a brick wall, in hopes that the moisture retained at the base of the wall would allow it to survive to the nice vast-bedding stage. Some day, maybe I'll be able to go back and look, as once again I moved on with a flurry of long-distance moving.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 14, 2007, 06:37:56 PM
Maddie,

You seem to have had a very interesting life, moving and living in so many different places! It is wonderful that you have collected food and gardening experiences from your various homes. I always look forward to reading your posts, and now understand why, when you arrived on the forums, you received such a warm welcome. You add so much!




Title: Gardenburger Gourmet
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 23, 2007, 03:15:48 AM
Gardenburger is coming out with a new Gourmet line of Veggie Steaks.

They have a more sophisticated palate of international flavors with premium ingredients and are about twice as large as the basic burgers you typically see.

My personal favorites are Baja and Hula

Tuscany is not bad either


Title: Re: Gardenburger Gourmet
Post by: harrie on June 23, 2007, 05:46:15 PM
Gardenburger is coming out with a new Gourmet line of Veggie Steaks.

They have a more sophisticated palate of international flavors with premium ingredients and are about twice as large as the basic burgers you typically see.

My personal favorites are Baja and Hula

Tuscany is not bad either

Dumb question -- can you throw them on the grill?  Or are they better pan-fried? 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: pugetopolis on June 23, 2007, 10:16:47 PM
(http://joshreads.com/images/0604/taupeballygoodness.jpg)

"Thank goodness, Desdemona!!!"

"Another favorite treat of mine. Lovely nutria casserole!!!"

"Hmm-hmmmmm good!!!!!!"

"What's for desert, my little sweetpea?"

"I simply can't wait..."


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 24, 2007, 01:34:38 AM
You can throw them on the B-B-Q   or grill them on a George Foreman type grill which works really well...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 24, 2007, 02:57:55 PM
Oregano!

I just complete my sizeable harvest of that heavenly herb. I will send some to a friend in NYC, and some to my sister who for some reason isn't growing her own, and the rest will be MINE.

I know to crumble it and add it to pizza. Actually, the Pizza we use, Red Baron Supreme, is very oregano-ey already. But if we buy the cheap pizzas, everything and anything added is an improvement!

What other foods are made better with some dried oregan? Or fresh oregano, since I didn't harvest the whole plot, but just the part I could reach from my path.

Next on my harvest schedule is sage. The Pineapple sage has already started to bloom, and was in fact blooming when we bought the plants at the nursery. But the bicolor sage and the common sage are not blooming yet, but getting rather tall like it's almost time. We like to take sprigs of sage, especially the Pineapple sage, and lay them across any meat we are cooking in the grill. The dried sage works well in oven cooking, which I try to avoid in these hot summer months.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 25, 2007, 02:37:51 AM
Trojanhorse,How thick are the veggie steaks?I assume it is more the thickness of something like a breakfast steak?.Speaking of steak tonight I did a Flank after letting it marinate for three days and I just don't think there is anything better than grilled flank.I love the big thick cuts of Ribeye,NY Strip, Porterhose and T Bone but for the money I love Flank on the grill.The past few years I just use either Newmans Own or Kens Steak House Balsamic Salad Dressing as the marinade with several cloves of sliced garlic and coarse ground pepper.If I cook for neighbors or friends we kill it all at once but if I'm the only one its good for three or four meals.I just cook it rare and nuke it about 30 seconds for leftovers though it is good cold.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 25, 2007, 09:37:58 AM
Or...throw some leftover steak on a green salad and crumble some blue cheese on it, if you like.  Yum.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 10:59:17 AM
Trojanhorse,How thick are the veggie steaks?

Similar in size to a 1/3 pound burger.  They're actually a little bigger than that in true weight, but remember beef burgers are weighed pre-cooking and tend to shrink while on the grill.

The GOurmet Veggie steaks are just under 6 oz after cooking,


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on June 25, 2007, 11:00:22 AM
they are in fact pre-cooked before flash frozen, so you are not losing much of anything when you grill them up...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 25, 2007, 03:58:47 PM
Thanks, guys, for cleaning up the kitchen. Somebody had to do it.

We expect the New Jersey blueberries to flood the market although other people predicted scarcity this year. In any case, I have this recipe from a woman who lived in New Jersey  throwing boxes of blueberries into New Jersey for the best years of her life.  Here's why:

(she called it a Blueberry Buckle   at 375 degrees)

Grease and flour a square 9x9x1 and 3/4 inches.

Mix: 3/4 c.sugar, 1/4c.soft shortening, 1 egg

stir in 1/2 c. milk


Measure 2 cups flour, 2 t. baking powder, 1/2 t. salt

Combine all of the above with a pint of blueberries (washed)

Sprince top with mixture of 1/2 c.sugar,1/3 c.flour, 1/2 t. cinnamon and 1/4 c. soft butter.

Baje 45-50 minutes. Keeping an eye on  your oven temperature and the state of coffee cake browning.

And you know those pointed wooden sticks usually used for grilling kebabs?  Those are handiest for sticking into the cake to test it and be sure that the dough is done through in the center.

You can serve this with whipped cream or ice cream in numerous flavors of your choice, unless you make it for breakfast with coffee; and even then....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 27, 2007, 02:20:14 PM
Anyone know about soy milk?  Does it taste awful?  Does it keep better than regular cow's milk?  Turns out my great granddaughter is lactose intolerant.

Maddy, your blueberry thing sounds delicious.  I need to go get some blueberries.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 27, 2007, 03:03:28 PM
I buy chocolate or vanilla soy milk.  I like it more than regular milk.  The one drawback is that it has sugar.  The plain soy milk has no sugar and  has a pleasant nutlike taste.  The texture is thinner than whole milk, but thicker than skim.  The shelflife is longer than regular milk.

If grandaughter doesn't like skim, there is also rice milk.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 27, 2007, 03:06:09 PM
Donot,

I've recently heard of concerns with high consumption of soy affecting the hormones of the child. For example, my husband, now in his fifties, was on soy as an infant, and his breasts are larger than mine. You may want to just follow the doctor's advice on a formula that is suitable and doesn't have long term effects. And, do some research on alternatives, such as goat's milk and possibly adding chocolate to milk to make it work. I'm no expert on such things, so I'm just passing on what has come to my attention. I did notice that a lot of black children in the schools, who were lactose intolerant, we able to drink chocolate milk. There is, of course the concern that chocolate has a stimilant value, and also tend to increase the amount of sugar that the child consumes. I don't know that chocolate milk is advised for infants, but it seems to get milk into school-aged kids. There is a chocolate substitute, carob, that may or may not help the situation, but it is not a stimulant and may not need as much sugar to make it palatable.

Best advice will come from a good pediatrician.










Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 27, 2007, 03:09:05 PM
I, too, like the blueberry buckle recipe. It's been ages since I've baked any deserts, but this sounds like the sorta thing to get me back into it. I am thinking, tho, of buying the one-layer cake mix (Jiffy) to which you add the egg, and using that instead of making a cake recipe from scratch. I would make the crumbs from scratch of course. If I do it, I'll let y'all know how it turns out.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on June 27, 2007, 03:10:24 PM
Just ten minutes ago I saw a news report on Hemp Milk for those who are Soy Intolerant.Can't imagine the taste.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 27, 2007, 03:10:48 PM
Many pediatricians will recommend soy to a child who is allergic to cow's milk.  But Weezo's point is valid...there have been questions related to hormones and soy.  Many pediatricians are not up on the latest ideas in nutrition.  

Perhaps consulting a nutritionist might be helpful.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 04:16:12 PM
Just ten minutes ago I saw a news report on Hemp Milk for those who are Soy Intolerant.Can't imagine the taste.

No but does it matter, if you can get high.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 04:30:11 PM
Many, many years ago, in the 1950s, it was realized that some people have digestion problems with soy milk as well as regular milk either from cows or Mom! 

But just by reading through the posts in response, I think that soy is taking the rap for what isn't a soy problem but a Genetically Modified soy that they are virtually putting in to just about everything if you really look at labels.  Some companies that guarantee you  healthy food, then present you with a catalogue that  indicates in no uncertain terms that they have added soy to many of the mixes that they sell for your convenience. Such a deal.

When you have an indication that a hormone  imbalance has taken place, it is the genetic modification to the soy crop that produced that result.  I noticed, late last night, that Daedalus has a book on sale at present about  all of us and everything else as well  is genetically connected. But, I just glanced at it in passing, never dreaming we would be having this discussion.

HOWEVER, the simplest answer to donotremove's question is, yes, there is a lactose-free milk that has been on the market for years, which does away with the problem of regular milk vs soy-milk.       


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 27, 2007, 05:00:52 PM
HOWEVER, the simplest answer to donotremove's question is, yes, there is a lactose-free milk that has been on the market for years, which does away with the problem of regular milk vs soy-milk.       

So, what is this product, Maddy?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 05:04:01 PM
weezo, before I forget, since you brought up oregano, now that you have tons of it, have you as yet grown the Greek Oregano. If not, try it, you must.  Even this late in the season, start a pot -- I keep forgetting you are in the Virginia area, do you ever  look for plants at  Di Baggio nurseries and gardens?  I  bought plants from him for years because he introduced Lavender Grosso in this country long before anybody else; and his plants were always far healthier than anybody elses. They arrived in perfect shape, all the way to the Midwest from Virginia.  I don't know if they retired the name when Thomas Di Baggo retired, or if his son took over but I know there were a lot of dedicated believers in his way of doing things who attempt to maintain what he built.

He was no longer able to keep up with it, when the day eventually came that he realized he was succumbing to Alzheimers. He wrote everybody a nice parting letter explaining why he would no longer be handling the plant orders but letting people know the opening hours for the season if they wanted to visit and pick up plants.

There are other's who offer Greek Oregano for sale, and if I spot an example kicking around here, and I do mean kicking, excess of catalogues, will let you know.

Greek Oregano is distinctly more peppery, none of the more reminiscient soapy taste. And, of course, you use it for Greek cooking.( I recently stuffed grape leaves for dolmathes but did not use my usual main ingredient so they did not turn out up to par)  Because of the season, Greek Oregano fits it with most of the upcoming vegetables, zucchini of course served many different ways (and,yes, I do make Chocolate zucchini cake as well as two different kinds of cookies with chips in the zucchini base recipe of shredded or grated zucchini.) and then eggplant of all sorts of cuisines, Italian, Greek, Indian(with less emphasis on oregano).  My Japanese eggplant is producing very well with clusters of six or more little egglets as each set forms. They will elongate as we are into the hot,humid weather we have in common with Japan.

Sprinkle the Greek Oregano over fillings that you put into pita-bread, over feta cheese, over fresh mozzarella cheese, add it to salad dressings of olive oil, sprinkle on sliced tomatoes that get to sit awhile.

And last but not least, try oregano's little cousin, and start a marjoram plant or pick one up. It is a milder condiment for more delicate meat dishes, and egg dishes, and melted cheese dishes. I remember being shown by a senior citizen who directed childrens' theater, her name was Edie Mahler (like the composer) that you take one of those packets of chicken broth( I haven't actually seen any in years, or looked to see what they are like nowadays) and when that is simmering, at the last minute or so, you drizzle in an egg that has been mixed with a fork  and then strew it through the liquid with the same fork, then sprinkle with  a pinch of marjoram to your taste.  You can serve it out of a cup or a bowl.  Children thought because of things like this that just came naturally to Edie that she was another, " little person" like themselves but full of surprises.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 05:07:46 PM
I just knew you were going to ask that, and was hoping you wouldn't because I can't remember the name; but it is in almost every store that I've ever entered. I pick it up on those occasions when they don't have acidophilus milk  in stock.  It just says in big letters on the quarts,"Lactose-free" or that it is for those who are lactose intolerant. I'll see if I can google it up.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 05:14:15 PM
Here it is:

http://www.lactaid.com/


notice the identifying shield as an affidavit from farmers that their milk is produced by cows  who are not treated with artificial growth hormone.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 27, 2007, 08:02:18 PM
Chance in the House of Fate: A Natural History of Heredity 
  Author  Jennifer Ackerman.
 
Publisher Houghton Mifflin   
Format hardcover 
ISBN 0618082875
Pages/Publication Date 252/2001
Daedalus Item Code 71737
 
 
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Description
 
In the last few years, scientists have discovered that all living things, from yeasts to worms to humans, are guided by similar genes and proteins; at the most fundamental level, we are genetically linked to every part of the natural world. The author of Notes from the Shore here offers an encompassing vision of what these unities mean for our everyday lives, mirrored in her own life while pregnant with her first child.
"I am reminded of Lewis Thomas and Annie Dillard, but most of all of Walt Whitman. Jennifer Ackerman sings a song of self in the widest possible sense, the unity of all life on our planet."—Alan Lightman
 
 
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Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 27, 2007, 08:58:04 PM
Maddie,

The year I planted the common oregano that has grown to a large patch, I also put in a Greek Oregano. So somewhere among the oregano I picked were a few sprigs of the Greek Oregano. Perhaps it will add a "surprise" to the common oregano.

I made up a large batch of spaghetti today. Cooked the hamburger, almost fat free, so hubby complained it had no taste, added a large jar of prego. Cooked what I though was half the pkg of spaghetti. It was too soupy. So I cooked the rest of the spaghetti, and then it was too dry, so I added a small jar of ragu. It's still rather dry, so tomorrow I think I'll cook a can of diced tomatoes, add some herbs, and add it to the spaghetti. I will freeze some of it for later, since by the time we eat it for two days, that's enough for awhile. I added some of my oregano to the prego, which of course advertises, "It's in there", but I did it anyway, followed by a shake of Mrs. Dash's original.

BTW, I love Mrs. Dash's Chicken seasoning on thights that are cooked on a rack above an oven dish in the oven. We pull the skins off to eat it, since the skin is supposed to be bad for you. The skin is crispy and a bit tough anyway. But the seasoning is in the meat! Delicious!



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 28, 2007, 04:08:58 AM
Maddy, thanks for the Lactaide Milk link.  Never heard of such a thing.  How wonderful.  And chocolate, too.  Chrissy loves chocolate milk.

Weezo, your no fat spaghetti experience made me smile, girl.  I've had such a thing happen to me back there somewhere.  Very frustrating trying to "fix" a recipe gone belly up on you.  And you're right.  Cook some tomatoes w/spices (just look in the cupboard and start pulling stuff down, and shake a bit of everything you can think of in the pot.  Add two tablespoons of butter and let it "cook down" before you add it to the mistake (I always add a bit of sugar to any tomato dish).   That's about as close as a fix as you're gonna get.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 28, 2007, 04:53:27 AM
Thanks, Donot,

I've never claimed to be a great cook, but to screw up spaghetti! That is horrid. I just cooked too many spaghetti noodles. In the first cooking I forgot to allow that the box would not have been full, so looking at half the box left didn't mean I'd put half the box in the pot. So when I cooked the other half of the box, I must have cooked 2/3 instead of half. My bad! I'll just parcel up the spaghetti after I add the tomatoes cooked down somewhat, to what I have, and put it in portion containers and freeze it for when I want an instant supper, especially when Steve isn't home.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 28, 2007, 11:37:40 AM
So I have a boatload of leftover top round roast.  Ideas so far are: roast beef hash; shepherd's pie; or BBQ beef sammiches.  Any inspired thoughts for something different?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 28, 2007, 02:41:10 PM
So I have a boatload of leftover top round roast.  Ideas so far are: roast beef hash; shepherd's pie; or BBQ beef sammiches.  Any inspired thoughts for something different?

This isn't very inspired, but my favorite thing in the world is a cold roast beef sandwich with mayo and lettuce. 

You could make a gravy and serve it on top of rice in a smiliar manner to my recommended stewed nutria recipe...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 28, 2007, 02:55:51 PM
Those little packets of brown or onion gravy mix do a nice job with leftover roast beef! I would add that in addition to putting it over rice, you could also put it over noodles or mashed potatoes, or even just boiled, cut up potatoes, or baked potatoes. You could add fresh onions, or dried minced onions, mushrooms and cook before adding the gravy mix, or not, and celery or not according to your taste.

Cutting the roast beef into thin strips, added it to a bowl of greens, and topping it with chilled diced canned (or fresh chopped) tomatoes is another favorite. Dressing could be a tomato or balsamic vinegrette, or none at all.

Slice the roast beef, and cut into sizes to fit on hamburger buns. Top with good cheddar cheese and heat in a skillet or under the boiler until the cheese melts, and serve in hamburger buns with tomatoes, lettuce and horseradish sauce.

Or, cut the beef in small pieces, make some gravy (the packets are my favorite), add a spoonful or two of horseradish sauce, and add the beef just long enough to heat it all through.

Of couse, horseradish sauce can be put on the cold roast beef and served with hot, buttered noodles and long green beans or asparagus.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on June 28, 2007, 03:41:48 PM
cut into small chunks and drop into a dinner-size bowl with a cup of chicken broth, some quick-cook thai rice noodles, one raw egg, one-half small can of tomato juice, top with as much raw baby spinach will fit in the bowl, and fresh-ground black pepper.  cover and nuke on high for 5 minutes.  then stir vigorously till the egg finishes cooking in the steaming bowl as you spread it through.  the rest is heaven.
call it law's amerithai noodle soup.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 28, 2007, 03:53:05 PM
Rather than brown gravy mix, you can make your own gravy like this:

Save the beef broth and put into the fridge.  Once it's cold, skim off the fat from the top.  The gelatin that is left will be seasoned the way you seasoned the roast.  All you have to do is make a roux by slowly browning a tablespoon of flour in about 4 tablespoons of oil.  Microwave the gelatin for about a minute to melt it, then just add it to the roux.  If you roast was bland, you can add seasoning, but taste it first.  A dash or two of creole seasoning never did any harm if you want it like the Cajuns in south Louisiana eat it just about every day of their live.  A gravy made like this from pork roast drippings is also to die for.  Serve over rice - you can add bits of meat if you like.

Alternate method of making gravy - this will make a lighter gravy but will still be way better than a mix:

Stir a tablespoons of flour into two or three cups of water and place directly in the pan and add the gelled meat drippings.  Stir it as it heats - the small remaining flour lumps will "cook out" as the liquid heats.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 28, 2007, 03:56:01 PM
Geez, everything sounds good.  It's in the 90s and super-humid, so the desdemona special is sounding pretty tasty right about now.  Though I might use a mayo-horseradish sauce instead of straight mayo.   

law, your soup sounds great, but no way I'm doing soup today. Plus I don't nuke.  But in the fall, I want to convert that to stovetop preparation -- sounds excellent. 

Thanks all for your advice!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 28, 2007, 04:50:09 PM
Well that sweltering heat will brings those tomatoes right along, at least, harrie.  It's about that hot here in Atlanta right now, too - 92 degrees and humid.  I'm miserable - funny how you get so unused to the heat - I used to play in the heat in Texas as a child where it got to be over 100 degrees and thought nothing of it.   It's so hot in south Texas - I used to live in San Antonio where it would get to 110 - oh GOSH that is so HOT.  But no matter how hot it would be, if you went down to the border, it always seemed like the instant you crossed the Rio Grande it was just that much hotter.  Just withering, relentless heat.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 28, 2007, 05:25:18 PM
Harrie

Des is right about the roux (we also do that with the gelatinous chilled chicken left overs but more on that later re: summer food). But when Weezo brought up that horseradish, and you came up with Tiger Sauce, you have the preferred sandwich.  Other British persons go for the mustard on their beef. As an also as much French as Scots, you know the preferred alternative is our roasted pork sandwich slathered in mustard and probably some tart greens. My father, however, loved mustard so much that he taught me to eat fried egg sandwiches with mustard.

I would suggest however, when it gets cooler again, that you try desdemona's roux for your left over beef and experience a Welsh dish from Cornwall known as pasties (no, not that kind; they don't do that anymore anyway do they?) Just as weezo recommended shepherd's pie, the Welsh want to wrap it up putting the beef and carrots and potatoes with plenty of black pepper,salt the carrots,parsley if you wish and enough gravy to keep it moist on a gigantic empanada or--think of this as British "calzone". You flap the empty side of the pastry or pasty circle over the side where you have put the filling, leaving border so that when the two halves come together -- a Welsh woman would cleverly turn the edge, similar to putting your thumb down on a pie crust to keep it stuck in place to the pie plate. Or you could carefully use a fork to press down the edge.

Since you will probably be eating it at  home fresh from the oven,you can afford to put a few fork prickings top-side, not too large, not too many, don't let the gravy out overly much during baking the crust golden brown. This is what Welsh miners took with them into the mines. They brought the lunch pail recipe along with them to southwestern Wisconsin
where they worked the copper mines.  Left over cold pasty actually does use catsup liberally, or Mrs. Bennett's chili sauce. When warm at home, where we used to have them delivered by the Lambrecht's delivery man to pop into the freezer, one needs a packet of that very pale yellow chicken gravy mix which came accompanying the frozen pasty. I know, it is a conundrum, beef gravy on the inside, extra fake chicken sauce on the outside?

The reason for this, I'm sure, is that my mother had been allowed to fidget with this "foreign" cuisine, she would have seen to it that  proper navets/turnips cubed up beside the carrots and not just potatoes. After all she is the one who taught me that in this weather it is appropriate to have hot dogs, are you listening donotremove*, on a bun with icy cold sauerkraut


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 28, 2007, 06:13:48 PM
desdemona2

{"It's so hot in south Texas - I used to live in San Antonio where it would get to 110 - oh GOSH that is so HOT.  But no matter how hot it would be, if you went down to the border, it always seemed like the instant you crossed the Rio Grande it was just that much hotter.  Just withering, relentless heat."}

I have just learned as of yesterday in the immigration forum that the heat on the border from Arizona through Texas is similar to Iraqi desert heat, or Riyadh for that matter.

{"92 degrees and humid.  I'm miserable - funny how you get so unused to the heat - I used to play in the heat in Texas as a child where it got to be over 100 degrees and thought nothing of it".}

My heat tolerance has been decreasing bit by bit from 1989 until 1993, what with the Gulf War worked in there some where, I lived in what I thought was the worst possible 17th.century colonial inn, in what were essentially the servants' quarters under the eaves with dormers  to which were added a couple of air-conditioners for the summer and an attic fan somewhere at the peak of the roof. In the living room which had beautiful beams there was also a wonderful under the eaves location where I could hang a plant lamp and as the wall(roof) came upward at an angle there were two sky-lights side by side that could be opened to let in cooler air at night (but not by much). I kept them veiled in India-print by day. 

By '93, I traded this in for another lofty perch  on the third floor of a building going up hill under the trees; since the neighboring children had tree houses built by their dads, I felt like I lived right up there with them in my leafy bower. It was only when the lightning storms came up the Delaware, and the basic television went out so that you could not get tornado warnings, that I realized; I had not chilled out enough. After four years of this, I actually came further south in close proximity to the Maryland border.  The farm-house was so tight that at first there was no problem baking pies or canning chili-sauce at 92 F.in June and through 98 in July, and I came from a climate that originally did not go over 70 something at night until August.

This year is inordinately strange with a season thus far of days that were 70-80's in Spring with nights falling below 40 and toward "freezing" even as the days climbed into summer and we are now at the temperature you mentioned above with full humidity.  It is our hyperthermic* index that goes awry as we age, we get overheated outside and we shut down; and yet just four years ago, I was gardening outside in the sun, to grow vegetables, on a regular basis. Not any more.

(we also become hypothermic* more readily)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 28, 2007, 06:24:14 PM
Thanks for the advice, madupont.  I'm a roux girl myself, so desdemona's instructions and your endorsement will not go to waste.  Really, we don't eat much meat; we bought some roasts on sale when we were feeding our ailing mutt homemade food, and have one or two left over.  So I'm definitely prepared for the next time around -- maybe I can try a little of everything. 

Desdemona, I can't wait for the first tomato sammich!  It's a ways off, but still.....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 29, 2007, 01:22:03 AM
"we bought some roasts on sale when we were feeding our ailing mutt homemade food, and have one or two left over. "

Oh, lord, tell me about it.  I just copied out some new recipes day before yesterday or was that three days ? Liver Treats(chicken livers) for Dogs or Cats,Chicken Crunchies for Cats, Meow or Woof Cookies, Babycakes for Kittens and Puppies, Dog or Cat Little Goodies, Grandma Sally's Kitty Cakes! 

As a dog  afficionado you may or may not have ever found out about the finicky nature of individual cats. No two alike. The cat, who thinks of me as her mom,is about eleven and doesn't look a day over what she looked like two or three years ago but is rather fond of "crunchies" and "kibble", with only an occasional nibble of wet stuff, whatever it is that comes in cans, when the crisis arose.

I immediately asked for Paul Newman to come to the rescue and while waiting I did a batch recommended by a vet who writes a column, and since then have realized that no two specialists or pet lovers agree on the dietary requirements,regulations, rules, which is pretty much like the rounds we have all been through ages ago on proper nutrition for children. Disagreement reigns.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 08:47:16 AM
Thanks for the advice, madupont.  I'm a roux girl myself, so desdemona's instructions and your endorsement will not go to waste.  Really, we don't eat much meat; we bought some roasts on sale when we were feeding our ailing mutt homemade food, and have one or two left over.  So I'm definitely prepared for the next time around -- maybe I can try a little of everything. 

Desdemona, I can't wait for the first tomato sammich!  It's a ways off, but still.....

Woe is me, harrie.  I still only have the one little tomato on my plant in spite of daily checks, plant food treatment, etc.  There are about six blooms but it seems like they will NEVER turn into tomatoes!  I ruthlessly pulled leaves off the thing yesterday in sheer exasperation - now I've probably ruined the whole plant.  I will definitely have at least ONE homegrown Better Boy tomato this year though, unless the squirrels get it first.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 09:48:12 AM
I found a nutria messing around in my sock drawer this morning.

Anyone have any good recipes for nutria?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 29, 2007, 10:04:40 AM
madupont, we have two cats. I've never made cat treats because they'd have to be sooo small -- especially since one cat is kind of toothless -- and I have no patience (or skill) with handling tiny things. So the cats get store-bought treats; so far, no complaints. Do you roll out dough and cross-cut it into tiny pieces, or small bits of dough into shape or what?

I do make the (new) dog his own biscuits, though he eats store-bought food and treats as well.  I make cookies for horses, too.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 10:17:45 AM
I found a nutria messing around in my sock drawer this morning.

Anyone have any good recipes for nutria?

Of course, Bart!!!  http://www.nutria.com/site14.php

YUM!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 10:20:52 AM
harrie -

That was madupont giving the pet recipe tips - my animals get dry food, no frills.  Guess when their teeth go bad, I'll have to start rethinking the issue.  No way are my babies getting any store-bought wet food after that pet-death fiasco.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 29, 2007, 10:21:57 AM
harrie -

That was madupont giving the pet recipe tips -

Whoops! Sorry about that.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 10:30:25 AM
No prob!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 11:06:56 AM
My favorite recipe title on the Nutria site is "Enola's Smothered Nutria." 



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 11:22:50 AM
I bet you thought I was KIDDING when I told that story about the free nutria and rice bar in St Mary's Parish, Bart.  My ex-husband actually walked into a place like that when he was working there for a few days many years ago.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 29, 2007, 11:36:53 AM
I bet you thought I was KIDDING when I told that story about the free nutria and rice bar in St Mary's Parish, Bart.  My ex-husband actually walked into a place like that when he was working there for a few days many years ago.

Your nutria info would have been perfect for discussion at the NYT when they ran the story about people trapping sparrows for food. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 11:43:33 AM
Eww - I missed that one.

I have a phobia of wild food that somehow developed over the years.  My son was just beaming when he brought home a good catch of catfish about a year or so ago.  He happily cleaned it and filleted it and put it a bowl of saltwater to soak.  I was so grossed out I threw it away, much to his chagrin.  I know that was wrong and irrational, but that's what I did.  It was a compulsive thing.

I have a recipe book wriitten by the Baton Rouge Junior League back in the late sixties - they've sold literally millions of copies.   There is a section entitled "Wild Game" with recipes for cooking squirrel, venison, and a really special one called "Coon A La Lu".


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on June 29, 2007, 12:09:58 PM
I once found a coon in the loo, but that's a different matter.

Sparrow?  Seems like you wouldn't get much meat off a sparrow, for your effort.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 12:16:36 PM
I once found a coon in the loo, but that's a different matter.

Sparrow?  Seems like you wouldn't get much meat off a sparrow, for your effort.



Back to Louisianians again, Bart - my next-door neighbors of 9 years here in Atlanta were from the bayou country.  One day, the family idiot who lived in a shed in the back yard was talking to me and pointed to a flock of small blackbirds flying past. 

"OOOOOO-weee!"  he said.  "Those are some good eatin'.  When I was a kid, my Daddy'd take us out and shoot a bunch of those things.  It was so much fun!  We'd stay up all night pluckin' them and then the next day, we'd cook 'em and eat em!"

I'm like, "Uh, yeah!"


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 29, 2007, 12:17:01 PM
I once found a coon in the loo, but that's a different matter.

Sparrow?  Seems like you wouldn't get much meat off a sparrow, for your effort.




Perhaps you could boil it and have a lovely consomme.....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 29, 2007, 12:26:51 PM
Well, not that anyone asked, but I located a link to the article, just in case anyone's looking for ideas....
http://tinyurl.com/26vefg 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 01:26:04 PM
Uggh.  Black bear meat is, well, really black.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on June 29, 2007, 01:26:48 PM
Where is it legal to kill and eat black bear, I wonder?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: whiskeypriest on June 29, 2007, 01:46:48 PM
Well, this topic puts me in mind of my favorite part of O Brother Where Art Thou? Where Tim Blake Nelson offers George Clooney a gopher on a stick.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 29, 2007, 02:07:06 PM
Well, this topic puts me in mind of my favorite part of O Brother Where Art Thou? Where Tim Blake Nelson offers George Clooney a gopher on a stick.

Does this mean we're venturing into fast food territory?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 29, 2007, 03:19:38 PM
Hey folks, I read this list to see lots of yummies. I would like to learn what to use to make wet cat food. My friend, a catlover from away back says there are certain vitamins and nutrients added to commercial cat food that cannot be put in the home made.

As for the nutria and wild gamey stuff - YUCK!!!

When my lovelies bring home their "rent", I just sweep it off the porch into the periwinkle, where it sinks out of sight and mind, and eventually feeds the beautiful purple flowers that brighten spring and fall.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 29, 2007, 08:01:39 PM
Where is it legal to kill and eat black bear, I wonder?

Up until this point in their aging process,the second to first of my male siblings takes a trip from the Twin Cities area of Minnesota up to Alaska to join his older brother (my younger brothers, both of them) in time for bear hunting season --which is black bear.   They seem to enjoy it, remaining alert so as to come to no harm since the black bears are bigger than they are. Nonetheless, they are "old men now" or in the case of the younger just on the verge of it, despite the skills attained from starting to hunt since they were about age 13. Our father considered it an important survival skill, in the circumstances of his sibling and himself about the time of the first World  War and into the Twenties, it allowed them to have meat on the table for five brothers, two sisters and their mother.

What seems at first thought,absolutely tragic, later reveals itself to be an oddly arising privilege in which you have what had been "a Frontier diet" that was also considered to be European cuisine par excellence, starting from the Abe Lincoln leaves Kentucky for Illinois lifestyle in which fricassee of squirrel is similar to what poultry once was like, to rabbit which becomes the German traditional Hassenpfeffer, and finally: Pheasant. The only thing annoying is the buck-shot.  Because my brothers began hunting at a young age, there might be as many as four deer in season, prepared and packaged for the freezer along with the duck hunt, usually from some place like the Dakotas, you might find a few other game birds like quail but that is disappearing.

Mother acknowledged that they used to cook squab, which are actually pigeons from the pigeonnier or dove cot  on most farms whose settlers originated in Western Europe. On farms,they are in proximity to the hay loft where they obtain a diet of grain seed.

I think it is a way of life that is about gone for good. Nevertheless, I enjoyed being here while it lasted


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 29, 2007, 08:40:04 PM
harrie, I forgot momentarily,

I haven't tried out the recipes yet , as I mentioned it was a few days ago that I found them but one did mention scorring the dough rolled out directily on to the baking tray although other recipes are small cookie shapes. the scored reciples for a kind of kibble are then saved in containers.  It is in the main a grain diet,  that is why the difference of opinion. There was a recipe which includes canned mackerel, if the supply source is a good one, then mixed with other ingredients but can you imagine the smell while preparing this? No doubt, the cat finds that "attractive" and "appetizing".

In any case, everything has to be rather small for cats.  I have to locate some bone meal again, not the gardening supply, from a health food store instead such as humans can digest, that is added to  pet food recipes as well as cod-liver oil, etc.

What I did previously put together was from a rather intense doctrinaire veterinarian -- it seems that temperament prevails in many different fields and professions -- and was portioned in small muffin pans that started with the invariable healthy brown rice to which a variety of things like wheat germ were added, and flax oil, and after it was baked awhile and cooled could be popped into indivual serving ziploc bags. They freeze and are then defrosted. The cat looked at me like I was out of my mind to expect she would be interested in that. I nevertheless kept attempting to introduce this to her anew each day for awhile, to see if she would become used to the concept as the "start of a New routine". Nope, no interest whatsoever.  She likes to go through the whole rigamarole of asking for food, having you go for it, presenting it in clean dishes, then she licks it to give it a taste test, and saunters off to the rest of her life. As you may have discerned, she is a Taurus and luxuriates  in most things that have a sensual pay-off.  It is one of the things that you learn after awhile from cats, given enough time for familiarity to take hold, and you finally accept the truth, that we are the cats' "people" other than the usual way around of supposing they are our pets.

Will find the link for you, in case you really want to "experiment" for a "reaction".

Since it is all "human food grade", when the dog lets you know that he or she knows their own preferences, far better than such  well-meaning souls as they know we are, you can always use the ingredients from the pantry and make up a batch of muffins or biscuits or crackers and when friends ask or infer how novel these seem where ever did you get the "idea"(?), you can always tell guests. that the dog mentioned the recipe one day, and they will leave early.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 02, 2007, 06:22:10 PM
harrie,
http://www.hodgsonmill.com/animal-treats/


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 02, 2007, 08:21:41 PM
harrie,
http://www.hodgsonmill.com/animal-treats/

Thanks, madupont!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 03, 2007, 05:58:27 PM
harrie,
While eracing ancient e-mail that had to be scrapped off the cave walls, I found my first exposure to the petulant veterinarian but here is his commentary nonetheless for what it is worth as we all must be self-determining.

For ten years on last couple of acres of farm in the Midwest, I fed my cats left over people food on occasion as well as their dry kibbles or whatevers. Never bought canned except for Birthday Parties. My brother once told me that his cat ate Italian food, since the cuisine was concocted from what my brother bought at the Italian-butchershop next door.

http://tedeboy.tripod.com/drmichaelwfox/id19.html
Dr. Michael Fox's Homemade 'Natural'
Dietary Supplement for Cats

2 cups whole grain rice
1/2 cup of peas, chick peas or lentils
Pinch of salt
1 T. vegetable oil (flax seed oil* or safflower oil)
1 T. wheat germ
1 T. cider vinegar
1 T. chopped canned clams in juice
1 t. brewer's yeast*
1 t. dried kelp*
1 t. bone meal or calcium carbonate
1 whole chicken cut in pieces,
or 1 lb. hamburger (not too lean), or ground lamb, or turkey


Combine all above ingredients. Add water to cover all ingredients, simmer and stir, and add more water as needed until cooked and thickened. Stew should be thickened enough to be molded into medium-sized or muffin-size patties (add bran to thicken if needed). Also add an egg or cup of cottage cheese. Immediately after cooking and cooling, debone and discard bones (cats should not be given cooked bones to eat since they can splinter and cause internal damage). This stew can be served as: 1/2 cup full for a cat with the rest of his/her rations. Freeze the rest of the stew as patties, or in muffin trays, and thaw out as needed. Serve one patty to a cat about three times per week with regular rations.

For variation, substitute 1 pound raw or lightly cooked boneless fish. (NOTE: some cats are allergic to fish, corn, and also to beef and dairy products).

* = these items are available in health food stores. Ideally all ingredients should be organically certified. NOTE: Add flax seed oil after the cooked food has cooled to room temperature.

T = Tablespoon
t = teaspoon

--THE ABOVE RECIPE CAN ALSO BE FED AS A COMPLETE MEAL RATHER THAN AS A SUPPLEMENT.--MIX INCREASING AMOUNTS OF YOUR CAT’S NEW FOOD WITH DECREASING AMOUNTS OF THE OLD FOOD OVER A 7-DAY PERIOD TO AVOID POSSIBLE DIGESTIVE UPSET.--- IT IS ADVISABLE TO VARY THE BASIC INGREDIENTS TO PROVIDE VARIETY AND TO AVOID POSSIBLE NUTRITIONAL IMBALANCES, AND TO MONITOR THE ANIMAL'S BODY CONDITION SO AS TO AVOID EITHER OVER-FEEDING OR UNDER-FEEDING, BASED ON THE AVERAGE CAT CONSUMING ONE THIRD OF A CUPFULL THREE OR FOUR TIMES A DAY.

--NOTE: DIFFERENT ANIMALS HAVE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT NUTRITIONAL NEEDS ACCORDING TO AGE, TEMPERAMENT, AMOUNT OF PHYSICAL ACTIVITY AND HEALTH STATUS).

Home-prepared foods for our animal companions, ideally with organic ingredients that were locally produced, are important because you then know what your animal is being fed if a food-related health problem such as an allergy to a particular ingredient or digestive upset were to arise. With most processed commercial pet foods containing all kinds of human food-industry by-products and ingredients considered unfit/unsafe for human consumption, many of questionable nutritional value after repeated processing, you just don’t know. Aside from coloring agents that may cause problems other than saliva-staining of animals’ faces, and paws, most commercial pet foods contain artificial preservatives like BHA that is linked with cancer of the bladder and stomach; BHT that may cause cancer of the bladder and thyroid gland; and Ethoxyquin, one of Monsanto’s many allegedly harmful products that renderers (meat and poultry processors) add to the fat/tallow that is put into pet foods to prevent rancidity. Ethoxyquin is a recognized hazardous chemical, a highly toxic pesticide.

For more information on holistic cat care, see my book The Healing Touch for Cats published by New Market Press, NY., and for food industry concerns that affect us all, see my book, Eating With Conscience: The Bioethics of Food. New Sage Press, Troutdale, OR




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 03, 2007, 06:26:42 PM
madupont, thanks for the cat food info.  I think weezo was looking for it, too -- so should be quite useful.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 03, 2007, 07:08:21 PM
Maddie,

Thanks for the cat food recipe. The hardest thing seems to be to debone the meat after it's cooked. I'm sure I'll figure out how to get around that. Or just use ground turkey from the food lion.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 03, 2007, 07:41:17 PM
Donot,

I've recently heard of concerns with high consumption of soy affecting the hormones of the child. For example, my husband, now in his fifties, was on soy as an infant, and his breasts are larger than mine.




Whoa!!!   I've not heard this one before...   Where did you hear that?      My 17 year old was exclusively on soy as an infant as he was lactose intolerant.  Please give me something I can follow up on to research that one...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 03, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
Here it is:

http://www.lactaid.com/


notice the identifying shield as an affidavit from farmers that their milk is produced by cows  who are not treated with artificial growth hormone.

there is a difference between lactose intolerance and being "allergic" to milk though, correct...

Adults can usually do the Lactaid or a similar product.  I had always heard that adding Acidophilus would also work, but now I'm hearing it is not as effective...


http://www.healthcastle.com/herb_lact.shtml


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 04, 2007, 02:31:42 AM
TrojanHorse,

I can remember years ago there was some speculation about why with the approach of adolescence that here in the Western world girls were beginning to menstruate earlier and earlier.  I think here is your answer but you'd have to start looking into what is available of medical literature on line. What was little regarded at the time that those remarks were about something self-evident, we had at the same time for the sake of the milk industry increased the use of hormones either in the feed of cows or in shots to keep them producing more milk than ever. Disregarding there might be carry over in the milk itself.  So I don't know what they've found since in research.  Obviously in the supermarket coolers are the special displays of  milk from places like LaFarge, Wisconsin (whose products, I've mentioned before; that is, somewhat earlier) where they've avoided hormones and any additives in the feed. Nothing but grass fed.

This was true of both milk cows and  beef steers where the latter were also  given hormones to "beef up the steer".  So I also find that I buy ground meat from them now that they make a point of avoiding the use of hormones in beef.

Going to the supermarket has become decisive, there are the dairy products mentioned above in  one area of display, everything from milk, skim milk, acidophilus milk, cream, cream cheese, various cheeses, cottage cheese, sour cream, butter; and just a short distance away, what we have known as "regular milk". 

The butcher counter is the same way, it is regular and it looks good and it is inexpensive by comparison; while around the corner  of the island opposite, in the next aisle is a freezer of bacon, sausages, ground meat,sometimes roasts,chicken breast, tenders(which can also be found fresh and particularly marked as no additive/no hormones, raised in the fresh air, carefully slaughtered or carefully "handled" if you prefer the terminology, which includes wings, legs, thighs,whole chickens); and back at that freezer quite a lot of buffalo steak and roast.   

All of this at first seems very strange by comparison to "normal meat" or average purchases; are they kidding me? Is this for real, or is this some kind of  thing that ought to make the buyer beware?  It takes awhile to convert to what was previously unknown about. Safe food.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 05, 2007, 10:50:34 AM
Non-fat powdered milk is good, because the process of making it removes some of the unpleasantries.  Many undesirables bind with lipid molecules, so skim milk of any kind is the better choice.   Soy foods have plant estrogens that can bind with estrogen-receptor sites in the body, so are not recommended for males.  This has gone from rumor to being pretty much common knowledge, I think.  Every guy I know (self included) who tried soy milk for a while noted a drop in libido and muscle tone.  I went back to taking my chances with cow's milk.  And lactose-free cow's milk is available.  Also, white Italian cheeses are made by a process that removes all lactose.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 05, 2007, 11:27:50 AM
"Every guy I know (self included) who tried soy milk for a while noted a drop in libido and muscle tone."

Holy cow!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 07:24:58 PM
"Every guy I know (self included) who tried soy milk for a while noted a drop in libido and muscle tone."


I think that's just aging, Des...sorry...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 06, 2007, 07:32:54 PM
Mad

I'm with you on hormones, additives, etc causing all sorts of issues, but I had not heard that consumption of soy caused "hormone" problems in humans before Weezo's post... I think this is what I was reacting to.  I didn't read that the soy in question had been artificially treated with anything...but that the soy itself was the problem...  I don't recall seeing anything like this before...

We obviously try very hard to use all natural ingredients and have some organic products as well.  But if "soy" causes problems, I would like to hear more about that...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 07, 2007, 01:34:46 AM
Trojan -

That was barton with the libido observations.

Lots of women eat Soy products because of the phytoestrogens.  It is billed as a "natural" way to deal with hot flashes and such.  The problem is, it is still a source of estrogen, which often causes breast cancer, and worse still, there's no way to guage how much of these phytoestrogens you're getting.  I had estrogen receptor positive breast cancer (very early stage) and I was encourged not to consume a lot of soy, although the doctor said drinking soy milk was probably okay.

Even more confusing still is the fact that Japanese women, who eat much more soy, have breast cancer less often.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 05:47:24 AM
trojanhorse re:#216

I think that a significant problem with soy presently in the United States and where ever we have exported it -- is that we have a bumper crop of genetically modified soy.  Much of it unidentified. I am having difficulty obtaining what was previously available and labeled as not genetically modified soy, in my local area. Until recently, very smart producers of soy products realizing this identification problem, clearly labeled their products as non-genetically modified soy.

I had used soy, and grown some, ever since about 1970, knowing the benefits, my uncle had done experiments in growing soy in the Midwest and today Kikkoman grows a large amount of their needs for shoyu in the mid to northern tier of Wisconsin. I just had some for dinner in fact, in making Japanese/Indonesian cold noodles for summer weather with about three marinated, broiled/baked chicken wings as a topper,on lo mein noodles. It is the shoyu that is the flavoring sauce with roasted peanuts in hot chili sesame oil,some mirin(sweet rice wine),raw sugar, cumin,garlic powder, finely sliced ribbons of sweet red pepper, clippings of gow choy: garlic chives, a few radish leaves cut with a scissors, chopped up crystalized ginger. All of these ingredients  do not even fill up a Japanese tea cup. Basically, the shoyu is a ratio of 2:1 mirin.   

If you are having chicken and it is cooking, and you prepared all your bits of ingredients for the sauce, you then simmer it for barely two or three or four minutes, depending on how many people are eating noodles which boil in about 6-8 minutes and are rinsed in cold water after draining. I am in the habit of buying Chinese or Japanese noodles in the traditional packaging where a band of paper ribbon is around each serving amount that you prepare by boiling when the paper is removed.

The noodles are placed in a serving bowl and the sauce poured over and mixed into the noodles and then to chill even faster -- I drop about six or seven ice cubes on top and gently rearrange them every little while to cool all the noodles, the very small amounts of chopped vegetable usually go on and in at the end and some sprinkling of sesame seeds, some dishes use white, with light foods like chicken, or black sesame with heavier meats or fish.

The problem with soy foods in general, either as plain tofu, or blended with other things and frozen, or mixed dry as an added granular ingredient in the making of dry cereals popular breakfast food in the US, is that about ten years ago, we found suddenly ubiquitous packages of every kind, praising the health benefits and that was very clever advertising, especially directed to menopausal women -- but this happened following the glut that was created of genetically modified soy as if the producers were desperate to unload the commodity.   

That's when I carefully picked out the packages identified as not genetically modified.

They hadn't been for the 5000 years that Japanese women had been consuming it, and Chinese, that Des had been talking about, so I was going with that. I'd be hard pressed to tell you in detail why corporate agriculture feels benefitted by genetic modification. There's probably someone here who knows far more about it than I ever have and have by now forgotten. I think they may have supposed it would make high protein animal feed? Who knows?

In the US, Japanese Americans and Chinese Americans eat very much the same variety of foods that all the rest of us do and consequently the former high standard of disease resistance no longer holds true, including the significant benefits of soy in the traditional diet. My sister-in law who had been visiting me last Fall, ate pretty much a diet of raw vegetables and fruit, randomly throughout the day, and small portions of other things that I prepared meat or cheese or fish, cooked foods; about a month ago she called and let me know that she was having biopsy for breast cancer, that had run in her mother's family, her mother, her aunt, and my sister-in-law's sister, so you see the pattern and the concern for the next two following generations as well.  These were/ are people who were born and raised in the United States but who were previously traditionally believed to be immune because of their origins and customs. So what ever the other factors are, we await further information to be made available to the public by the medical researchers examining a now very confused and problematic situation.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 07, 2007, 10:47:56 AM
Bacon bits, however, triple a man's sex drive, and often prompt a renewed interest in tire pressure and the quest for correct inflation.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 07, 2007, 11:36:28 AM
Barton,

Is that bacon bits made from bacon, or the artificial ones in the store?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 07, 2007, 12:21:00 PM
There are bacon bits made from actual bacon?  Live and learn!

Getting back to soy/testosterone --- I can't say that studies have been done and this question has been settled scientifically, but it strikes me as more than just a story making the rounds of bars and locker rooms.  No human ate soy until about 900 years ago, during a famine in China, when the people there turned to soy (previously used only for making ink, and other nonfood purposes) and found a way to ferment it and render it edible.  I think it's like many foods that we humans weren't eating as we evolved over the millenia -- many just haven't gotten used to it, genetically speaking.

As for "genetically modified" this is something of a bogeyman, given that almost all agricultural foods have been modified by humans over a period of about 12,000 years.  Corn was originally a grass-like plant, until ancient mesoamericans modified it.  There is not one "natural" grain that we eat, unless it's wild rice, which is pretty much as it's always been.  I think it's best to approach GM on a case-by-case basis, ask to what degree the plant genome is being tinkered with and how, and then decide if it's good or bad -- and whether GM strains can damage ecosystems if they get into the wild.  Some GM strains are simply not viable in the wild and so have a built-in genetic moat in place.







Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 07, 2007, 01:13:09 PM
I dunno....sounds like a man's "scientific reasoning" to avoid eating the 'fu and stick with meat. The hubby eats TVP/soy products, and he's still hot and everything.   


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 07, 2007, 05:49:07 PM
Long before you bought bacon bits in a screw-top jar, you made them on a grill or in a skillet. You cut the bacon in small pieces, cooked it until it broke up easily, then broke it up with fingers to add to the top of a salad. Actually, it is much tastier than the jarred bacon bits!



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 07:07:53 PM
barton,  Hybridization is one thing and  making a strain either unable to reproduce planting seed so that farmers have to continually buy more genetically modified  seed, or containing the genetic strain of a natural pesticide is another. Obviously to obtain soy a mere 900 years ago seems odd to say the least. The Japanese are a great hybridizers and kept us supplied with Chinese plant specimen varieties longer than people suspected because they could buy from China when we could not and then would present their hybrid to Beltsville, Maryland and license it for themselves after testing; and so we would buy from the Japanese companies before we could buy direct. But in my case that was a very short wait.
 
My first seeds were mailed to me in open packets tucked into a manuscript envelope by my teacher who was living out at Santa Barbara at the time.  This of course is an old Buddhist tradition. So I laughed and gave it a try, learning what to do with things that were all variations on one and other from the cucurbit families for instance; in Chinese,  the names stuck with me longer, mao gua (or gwa) is actually a fruity pear-like shape and taste with the texture from hybridizing off a cucumber, like the long hanging cucumber for which you need a lattice or fence, likewise "the pleated squash" comes from that, and the bumpy squash which is a bitter melon used for curing syphillis "they say", and then there is the Winter Melon, which is not like water melon except in size and is necessary for making winter-melon soup. And, as long as you have a lattice or even a nice bamboo frame like the Chinese used out at Stockton,California (I saw an excellent garden, in Princeton, off of Hamilton street, rising up a hillside slope), you can grow those Chinese long beans which I never developed a liking for their somewhat odd taste.
 
So now we are down to beans and the bean was alternate  row planted, or intercropped another words, to nitrogen fertilize other vegetables. My understanding was that they had been doing this for 5,000 years. As their culture was agriculture, you start out by reading the classic written by The Yellow Emperor.
 
Space began to eventually be a problem particularly in Japan where they would not be able to rely excessively on meat from herd animals(although I like a nice Pork donburi now and then, and even prefer making it from available wheat gluten; yet, thus far, I have not had the heart to ask the White Wave people down in Colorado whether they are having a problem? Discreetly. Ever since the Chinese put the fear of god in us with pet food adulteration! But, I will ask before I buy more.
 
Consequently, in Japan because of the space shortage for herding to raise meat, they became the artsy-craftsy people of tofu production, something to do with your winters for instance but though I would read up on these things back in the Seventies-- I decided not to do a "Martha Stewart", just because it was a good thing, and start pressing blocks of tofu.  It was bad enough just remembering tofu is one thing and Tu Fu was another , the famous anti-war poet of China upon whom my teacher styled himself.
 
As a result of this mastery of the art of tofu making, it kind of became the nominative way of recognizing a buddhist in Japan and China as non-meat-eating vegetarian, respect for life and all that, passed along from India which did not eat cows wandering around and getting into the vegetables but in their climate the vegetables and the milk was sufficient in the course of the day as it turned into natural yogurt,etc.
 
So on that note the 900 years set as the intro of the soybean to Japan would make sense because that is when the Nepal buddhists who having brought buddhism to Taoist and Confucianist China  left it up to the Chinese to carry out the lineage and take buddhism and the written word to Japan along with the soybeans.  There are no accidents.
 
Tibetan buddhist laymen still like to eat game as meat in winter. So I will break the rules a bit and do as weezo said , fry a few slices of non-nitrate bacon or is that non-nitrites? And slice a tomato and flatten the escarole leaves  and stuff all this into a pita because that will make a sandwich and then take out a rubber spatula to scrape the last of the grapeseed oil Vegenaise out of the jar before I pick up another tomorrow --because it is good for you, especially if you wont give up bacon lettuce and tomato sandwiches!  But I did make a heck of a cake from zucchini, a chocolate zucchini cake (and no, the zucchini were not chocolate, it is just that Dutch cocoa goes into the flour,baking soda,salt to which melted butter and grapeseed oil again --are added with buttermilk, and three eggs, then the grated zucchini which will fill up a 9X11 or a 9X13 upon which you sprinkle a cup of chocolate chips, I like bitter chocolate from Ghiradelli out in San Francisco) AND BAKE,for dessert.

Be back after I check out concert, for teaspoons and Tablespoons and half cups vs.cups,etc.
 
 





 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Earl on July 07, 2007, 08:35:41 PM
Non-fat powdered milk is good, because the process of making it removes some of the unpleasantries.  Many undesirables bind with lipid molecules, so skim milk of any kind is the better choice.   Soy foods have plant estrogens that can bind with estrogen-receptor sites in the body, so are not recommended for males.  This has gone from rumor to being pretty much common knowledge, I think.  Every guy I know (self included) who tried soy milk for a while noted a drop in libido and muscle tone.  I went back to taking my chances with cow's milk.  And lactose-free cow's milk is available.  Also, white Italian cheeses are made by a process that removes all lactose.



Funny this discussion should crop up. I was in Whole Foods this morning and, for the first time ever, bought Silk just out of curiosity. (Yeah, I admit it. Madison Avenue got me with that ad where the cow wife and husband are in the kitchen and he reluctantly tries Silk on his cereal and likes it.) For the past several years I've been a fat-free cow's milk drinker and very happy with that, but today I decided to find out what Silk tastes like. I bought only a pint container of it, so no big loss of money if it turns out to be awful. I'll try it on Kellogg's Smart Start in the next couple days. If I like it and keep using it, I'll report back on which direction my libido and muscle tone take.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 07, 2007, 09:45:33 PM
Earl, Please read the ingredients on your Smart Start.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 08, 2007, 02:04:42 PM
Earl, thanks for adding another data point to my rather meager set.  As Harrie was alluding to, one's reservations about a food often stem from aesthetics, i.e. whether it tastes good, and the rationalizations follow from there.  I find both tofu and soy milk less than tasty, but if I were a hundred percent vegan I would probably find a way to make my peace with them as I'd really need the protein and calcium.  I eat vegetarian 3-4 days a week.  I'd love to be eating that way every day, but I have yet to find a path towards this where I don't hit a wall in terms of unpleasant physical symptoms -- fatigue, gnawing hunger and so on.  Just a couple ounces of meat (as the Asians use it, more a condiment than an entree) and such symptoms go away.

Don't eat pork at all, so no bacon bits for me.  The factory farming of hogs is particularly cruel and confining.

 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 08, 2007, 03:32:31 PM
barton,

The factory farming of hogs is more cruel to humans than to pigs. It's the large scale mess that they make which is particularly damaging to human beings one they are exposed to this as a massively damaging etiology of neuropathology.  Which probably accounts for that new testament account of the Nazarene driving an evil spirit out of a "possessed" person and likewise driving a herd of pigs over a cliff, as somewhat paired incidents.  I have a piece from the nytimes, where I originally read it, that has been published many times over on the web in various places, but that I saved over at nytimes when the topic came up again at this web-site -- I think in terms of immigration, and illegal workers in the meat-processing industry.  I will drop it off here for you because it is self explanatory.

As to the soy products, look at that recipe of how sauce was used on noodles that I mentioned.  Soy as otherwise used in recipes, either pressed or as milk, as the particular advantage of being able to pick up and carry flavors by being bland itself.  So the secret of using it and getting variety is in what you put on it, and over it, and in the case of milk--into it. For that I would recommend fruit.  The tofu or other processed versions on the competitive market can be changed ala mode for what ever sort of cuisine you are aiming  and any choice of vegetables and condiments you care to use. My husband's family had been entirely vegetarian for several generations, with some occasional backslipping from my Floridian mother-in-law and one of four sons who has been "on the road" a lot where he gets to sample every country's cuisine.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 08, 2007, 10:24:31 PM
Madison Avenue got me with that ad where the cow wife and husband are in the kitchen and he reluctantly tries Silk on his cereal and likes it.)

I have to say, I like those commercials a lot.  Yeah, they're silly, but I like them.  But they fall into a category of mine:  Like/love the commercial, but will never buy the product.  It's not a small category. 

We used to have a working (since 1650 or so) dairy farm in town where we would get whole, raw milk. They've fallen on hard times, and I don't know if they'll be able to come back.  I think they've sold off too much of their land, and they only keep about 4-5 cows now.  So we're doing regular, no-RBGH, no-nothing milk, lately from Stew Leonard's.  Which is a whole other crisis of conscience.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 09, 2007, 12:14:14 AM
Harrie,

I think you bring up a serious problem with the gathering of wholesome food from the source. The consumer is not paying (willing to pay?) the whole cost of keeping the farmer in business.

If the farm was in town and the value of the real estate rose, and there was pressure on the farmer to sell the land so the town could grow, then all folks in the town share the loss of the source of wholesome milk. If it was a matter of the price not enough to pay the taxes on keeping the land, then shame on the consumers.

Farms, especially family farms, in and near development areas are in serious jeopardy to be sold and subdivided so that the owners can make the most of what they have. Farms that are further out need to be well-supported by those who want these enterprises to exist in the face of lower-priced competition. For each consumer who needs to draw in their belt and stop supporting the supplier, there must either be a replacement or three, or the source will eventually fall to competition.

I am a dweller in a rural community, but, on a limited income, I cannot be a consumer for the organic foods unless I grow them myself. I will say, in support of the rural and agricultural areas, that the urban/suburbanite who comes to pick up this or that and pat themselves on the back for supporting "organic farming" is not doing as much as they think. Certainly, buying "organic" at the grocery store does little to really support the organic farmer. Most of the extra price is absorbed by the middle men. If you are going to pat yourself on the back for "going organic", do it by  avoiding the middle man and enriching the farmer who is willing to accomodate your needs. That means, of course, that you have to can or freeze in season to carry you through the out-of-seasons. Anything less is just fooling yourself.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 09, 2007, 12:22:43 AM
Yes, and you do that to a certain  point, when suddenly you crossed the age line of someone growing food to having become someone who needs to retire from doing so.  One generation gives way to another.  But now, we live in a different social order in which these family occupations are not passed on inevitably to the next generation, at least not through the entire extended family.

One of the things most enjoyable about people who farm is their bottom line realistic take on existence, which you learn real fast if you are going to be around them.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 09, 2007, 12:42:44 AM
Maddie,

If we value the growing of wholesome food, we have to make the family farm an attractive options to the next generation. If you are just depending on the old folks, who are approaching retirement age, they probably have all they want out of life. Young people need more, they need to see progress. If they cannot see that in as a farmer, they will become a construction engineer in the city. The return needs to be enough to keep the next generation on the farm, at least enough of them to keep the family farm in business. We are squeezing the farmer too much for profits to the middle man, and the are accepting less and less of the profit pie. We need to change that if we want the next generation to keep up the family farm. They need status, they need profit. If they don't have it, they will move on.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 09, 2007, 09:42:42 AM
If the farm was in town and the value of the real estate rose, and there was pressure on the farmer to sell the land so the town could grow, then all folks in the town share the loss of the source of wholesome milk. If it was a matter of the price not enough to pay the taxes on keeping the land, then shame on the consumers.

Weezo,

The rapidly rising price (and rapidly shrinking amount) of real estate was a contributing factor.  I think what sealed the deal was that the son who was in the position to carry on the business killed two people in a drunk-driving incident and is in prison for a long time, though I don't recall the number of years.   

We live in a suburban community and also on limited funds, which are about to become more limited.  We live in a condo and have no land, so we participate in the community garden and grow stuff ourselves.  We give some to the food bank, to our family and friends, and pack up the rest.  This is largely because we can't afford to buy organic produce at the farm stands/farmers' markets around here.  (Though I did find a person with whom to trade for organic, free-range eggs.)  The stands and markets seem to be geared mostly for the New Yorkers and other tourists, plus the Fairfield County people who have more money than they know what to do with.

I would love to live and eat completely locally; but right now, right here -- that won't be happening. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 09, 2007, 10:40:08 AM
Mad,

I think people raised vegetarian do much better at absorbing adequate nutrients from the diet.  And I agree that the ecological effects (on which I've read widely) of factory farming are dire.  My awareness of that is one of the motivators that keeps me eating most of my meals lower on the food chain.  However, regarding...

"The factory farming of hogs is more cruel to humans than to pigs."

I suspect that the pigs would disagree with you on that one.  I invite you to try their lifestyle for a few days and see if you can stick with that assertion.

I'm also well-versed in feedlot and packing plant practices for cattle (I live in Nebraska, BTW) and do not eat beef, except in social situations where it is served to me, the animal will be no less dead for my refusing, and extra food will be thrown away.

Your comment on the absorbent quality of soy is indisputable.  While I find the undertaste of soy unappealing, I can't deny that a good cook can pump some real flavor into tofu.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 09, 2007, 02:06:46 PM
barton,
"I invite you to try their lifestyle for a few days " re: pigs

Well, I have. My grandfather was a pig farmer, born in Altrier, who emigrated with his parents to the Midwest and grew his pigs in the manner that was used in the same kind of landscape in Europe. I usually started my day when visiting him at this season of the year (all children were sent back to work the farm in the same way as their parents before them had done, so that they could learn what was involved and understand the way of life)--

by jumping out of bed when I heard the milk cans being brought out from the milking barn.  At this point, my grandfather would bring additional new milk over to add to the slop barrel and begin to call the pigs, which I never knew at the time was not just a hog-call but the use of their ancient name in Europe, called out in a sing-song, Psui,psui,psui...

I might spend the afternoon, sitting on the heap of cob-corn in the corn crib above their "caves" of stone, built into the side of the hill for coolness, as the foundation of the corn feed drying crib. I was practicing Palmer penmanship. Something we don't use now a days in the age of the computer.

Immediately adjacent to where the pig troughs were in the outside pig pen, the down hill slope was planted in gigantic cabbages in rows far enough apart in width, through which the pigs could rummage at will, as they were also vegetarians. While doing so, feeding at will, they were both cultivating the field, by tearing it up with their feet, and fertilizing it! They would continue down hill where the slope led to a creek in the shade of trees on either side of the embankment and this was the water in which they could wallow to cool off in summer.

I envied them because we had none of that. One electric light hanging in the summer kitchen, another out in the dairy barn, (but eventually my uncle Alfred took care of that as he was in charge of Rural Electrification and lived in town) and we had no running water. I pumped water for my grandmother to begin breakfast on a wood stove in the summer kitchen, when I was about five years old.  We washed ourselves in enamel basins.  My sister told me it hadn't changed by the time she and our mother  had taken my sister's daughter out to get used to the farm, that children were still washed in a wash-tub, the cleanest kids first and the dirtier followed in turn.  As i said, that was how I discovered the bull-heads/cat-fish in the cows' watering trough because I envied them too. This was America at the end of the Depression just before WW2. (Of course, those girls,my sister's daughters are all grown up now, one of them went to Berkeley and majored in  Public Health. Somewhat in imitation of my mother's example, being one of only two girls on a farm doing the housework for the men in the family, she went into nursing and specialized in what was then called, "diatetics" or the particulars of medical-diet prescribed for various syndromes.)

But, anyway, that reminded me, I have to get you that material on what large-scale crowding of pigs causes, that I forgot to take out of my saved files at the source of all sources last night or early morning.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on July 09, 2007, 02:15:46 PM
Quote
which I never knew at the time was not just a hog-call but the use of their ancient name in Europe, called out in a sing-song,

Psui,psui,psui

i swear, when i was a kid in brooklyn, that's what we called out when an ugly girl passed by.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 09, 2007, 09:40:36 PM
Well, Pig in German is "Sau"  that's failry close...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 09, 2007, 10:54:44 PM
You got it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 10, 2007, 09:50:17 AM
We spell it "soo-ey" out here.

The pig raising you describe, Madu, sounds so idyllic compared to the modern hog facility one finds in abundance in our neighboring Iowa, the nation's number one pork producer.

Well, maybe number two -- I forgot about the U.S. congress.

 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 10, 2007, 10:50:36 AM


Well, maybe number two -- I forgot about the U.S. congress.

 


ba...dump..bump


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 10, 2007, 11:06:58 AM
I've been reading this article this morning:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19650857/site/newsweek/page/0/

I was already frightened by Chinese exports.  My question is, what are we to do?  It seems like everything I buy these days is made in China or has components or ingredients made in China - so many, in fact, that I have doubts as to whether or not some products can be had at all if they aren't partially Chinese.

I think we should boycott everything that comes from China, but there is no way of knowing whether food or medicine has ingredients from China.  The latest I've heard of is tainted catfish.  Even model trains are found to have lead paint on them.

Is the only choice going vegetarian?  What about cereals and grains?  Have they been tainted with Chinese ingredients?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 10, 2007, 11:19:58 AM
Is the only choice going vegetarian?  What about cereals and grains?  Have they been tainted with Chinese ingredients?

You probably don't want to read this article, either -- from the NYT last week or so.  It starts out...

General Mills, Kellogg, Toys “R” Us and other big American companies are increasing their scrutiny of thousands of everyday products they receive from Chinese suppliers, as widening recalls of items like toys and toothpaste force them to focus on potential hazards that were overlooked in the past.

Here's the whole thing, if you're interested.    http://tinyurl.com/2xz9hc



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 10, 2007, 11:30:21 AM
I still don't know what a yurl is, or why it should be made out of tin.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 10, 2007, 11:46:02 AM
harrie -

That's a good article too - my little niece got a Thomas the Train for her birthday!  I have to write her mom and make sure they know!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 10, 2007, 12:03:19 PM
I was thinking of having a salad for lunch, but now I learn that most salad dressing has Chinese ingredients.  Perhaps I'll opt for cooked veggies instead.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on July 10, 2007, 12:46:57 PM
i was planning to have some hot and sour soup, some shrimp dumpling, spring rolls, and spare ribs in black bean sauce, but then someone told me the food was chinese!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 10, 2007, 12:51:14 PM
I'm never eating off China again!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 10, 2007, 12:53:07 PM
I'm never eating fish, cough syrup, canned fruit, or wet dog food again.  As far as toothpaste goes, perhaps I'll use baking soda.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 10, 2007, 12:59:11 PM
I found a dog food that was never affected by the recalls -- Wellness brand (by Old Mother Hubbard, out of MA).  It's pricey, of course.  I believe the ingredients are human grade food, and it's got tasty flavors like whitefish & sweet potato.  So if we ever have to, we can just borrow a can from the mutt.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 10, 2007, 01:17:37 PM
Pedigree dry was never affected by the recalls, either, and I believe they are committed to producing a healthy product for animals.  I also believe Purina dry food is safe.  Meow Mix, my cats' favorite staple, doesn't have much in the way of product safety announcements.

Guess I'll go back to making cough meds out of whiskey, lemon, and honey, not that I take cough syrup very often. 

I'm eating fresh fruit for lunch for those of you who are dying to know.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on July 10, 2007, 02:04:30 PM
I'm eating fresh fruit for lunch for those of you who are dying to know.

too late.  they died already.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 10, 2007, 03:28:08 PM
I checked the web site back when the issue started, and Meow Mix was without problem, which is also my cat favorite staple. Fancy Feast and Meow Mix Market Select were never recalled either. We have cut down on the frequency with which we give the cats the wet food, every few days instead of every day, so if it has a problem, they won't get too much at a time.

I was thinking of getting some turkey, which they like, and make up some little bags of food to put in the freezer, then I heard yesterday that turkeys are getting the avian flu. What's a mother to do?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 03:46:40 PM
barton, that was your idyllic neighboring Iowa just under seven decades ago; now,you analyze what happened and you'll know exactly what to do about it to fix it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 04:51:45 PM
Des

"What about cereals and grains?  Have they been tainted with Chinese ingredients?"

No, just US cereals and grains with additional nutritional  boosterism of genetically modified protein usually not found in cereals and grains; that was what we were just talking about  two days ago.

"...now I learn that most salad dressing has Chinese ingredients."

Why not make your own depending on the cuisine you are preparing. Olive oil for Mediterranean; grape-seed oil makes the glide between there and the Middle East and is good for your heart.  With the appropriate vinegars and herbs, you've got it knocked. Sometimes a touch of sugar or honey is indicated. Other times it seems mustard in a small amount.  Definitely a tad of garlic or garlic powder and small amount of tomato paste for French; but be careful of fresh garlic and use up your dressing rather than store over until next time. A woman who spent the growing up years in the Trenton Italian neighborhood remarked that it can poison you, despite what we've heard in past years about marinating garlic in olive oil to flavor the oil !

Thousand Island can also be made for seafood salad with hard-boiled eggs, halved, on the side and tomatoes and lettuce, or to dress salad accompanying a meal of fish, or --for a Russian salad. Again, Grapeseed oil but, as it is sold today and known as Vegenaise which is a lighter than Light Mayo or no-fat Mayo that is actually good for you (within reasonable limits of course, no scarfing out). If you haven't tried it yet, read the ingredients and the percentages(low sodium, no cholesterol) on the label, where it is kept cold in the organic food cooler.  Of course, seafood such as shrimp does  have cholesterol and we aren't always sure how much in which hard-boiled eggs. (I try for eggs with lutein and omega-3, for my eyesight)

Vegenaise is not as inexpensive as light Mayo  but if you start with it to make Thousand Island,put in some pickle-relish or India relish, some finely chopped green pepper,perhaps Chili Sauce unless you prefer tomato paste to pink up the color of Thousand Island, and don't forget some finely chopped onion. I like to keep both dried red onion and dried white onion around --for when I am tired of it all --which comes from Litehouse; a product of Germany which is brought to us through Sandpoint,Idaho. Check out -- www.litehousefoods.com

Germans have been into this instand dried seasoning forever. I caught on to this when I was growing onions of various kinds, shallots, leeks, that there comes a point where the bulb grows shoots at the appropriate season and, unless planted,will quickly rot; so to carry the household pantry over, I keep a backup of dried onion in the round of seasonal onions, vidalia early, then Italian reds, then the regular whites, Spanish,yellow,etc. until eventually I will need a jar of dried onion. Litehouse also makes a freeze-dried Melange de fines herbes pour salade/salad herb blend which you may find as interesting to add to Thousand Island dressing.

I first found out about Russian dressing in San Francisco. It doesn't  have as many of the visible condiments in it, perhaps they are squeezed or strained into the basic mayo-tomato combo?  But when my aunt served Russian salad when we arrived in San Francisco, I was dumb-founded, that it was from the cans of mixed vegetables, with perhaps some celery chopped in a matching size, as well as,if you are very clever, cubed beets that do not bleed into the dressing and color the other vegetables!

As a dressing it is best on a sandwich at the Jersey Shore in the Summer-Season, which is corned beef on a Russian rye and some nicely drained cold sauerkraut. This is superbly refreshing or was; because corned beef and pastrami are no longer any more than a once in awhile treat when watching your sodium intake.

Poppy seed dressing. I used to make that for fruit,at blueberry season before the strawberries are gone and when the good peaches are available on lettuce. You take that Mayo or Vegenaise again, with a touch of lemon juice and honey stirred in and then the poppy seeds. Blue Dutch are supposed to be best.

In the Autumn when colder temperatures arrive, and again in the Spring when the coarser, heavier salad greens are available, Endive frisee and Escarole, a dressing of walnut oil (also good for the heart) with a mixture of vinegars, Spanish sherry vinegar,French or Italian red wine vinegar, and possibly balsamic vinegar in the smallest of the amounts (which are not exact equal thirds) changes everything as your hankering for meat eating returns after the long  hot summer (today it was so hot that the landscape-keeping boys raced over the lawns and then climbed into their truck to eat lunch with the air-condition on!  It will now rain for days.)  Hazelnut oil is another alternate for the "Winter salads".

At this season, a cold vegetable salad, sometimes rice, sometimes noodles will have a Japanese vinegar dressing with a little light oil but even sesame will do and a tiny amount of soy if you want it depending on the vegetables, perhaps sugar for some salad dishes,perhaps a garlic powder for others. Many of the Japanese vinegar are already flavored with condiments of the Western herbs for the Nakano brand.  I also grow shiso, which is the color of purple basil but does not taste the same, to add to tomato slices or thinly sliced cooked  beef for salad.                         



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 10, 2007, 04:54:20 PM
Law120b  re:#246

You are a connoiseur.  I used to make all this stuff too for the usual Holidays.


Title: Gardenburger Gourmet
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 13, 2007, 05:36:30 PM
GardenBurger Gourmet Veggie Steaks are starting to ship...

They will begin arriving in Stores predominently on the West Coast first--although there is some National Distribution in Natural Foods Store Chains:

International Flavor Profiles:

Tuscany - with Couscous, Carmelized Onions and Gorgonzola Cheese
Baja - with Roasted Poblano Chilies, Cilantro and Pepper Jack Cheese
Hula - with Pineapple, Maui Onions and ginger
Fire Dragon - with Jasmine Rice, Asian garden vegetables and Wasabi

This is not your Grandfather's veggie burger...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 13, 2007, 10:32:21 PM
I seriously doubt they will show up in Blackstone, or even in Petersburg. Beside which, they sound like something to eat in a bowl rather than a burger.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 14, 2007, 12:09:58 AM
Chicken Stovies
(another Scot's recipe adapted from attempting to say Poulet etouffee)

Take one rainy day in summer,after the storm where the temperature drops again, not the kind of after rainy day where it is HUMID, just the miserable cooler than expected kind of day.

Add a package of chicken thighs with the bones in, season them, flour and brown then in some grape-seed oil, in a large saute pan,the deep French kind. Have approximately as many medium large white skin potatoes as chicken-thighs, all scrubbed and or peeled, sitting in cold water while you saute the chicken thighs to brown.

Set aside the chicken on something absorbent like a  picnic Chinet-oval,which you probably have around during barbecue and grilling season, and take the pan off the heat, fire off, while you slice the potatoes to an average frying width (not as thick as 1/2 inch but not as thin as 1/4 inch either) and drain in a colander.

You have been out to your garden to pluck samples of the tips off all your varieties of Rosemary plants, and now wash them in a cup and dry them between a fold of paper towel.

Now heat up the saute pan again and, while it is doing so, stack up the layered potatoes,with a pinch of salt now and then, with the Rosemary in between layers. Put the chicken thighs back on top of the potatoes and clap on the lid, turn the heat down to a little less than medium low;when you smell them distinctly cooking like something good to eat, you can add a cup or less of water poured slowly around the edge of the pan. Put the lid back on and your nose will tell you when the cooking is done.

You can serve this with a nice salad, if the escarole is gone which it probably is -- use a butterhead lettuce, sometimes called Boston, with a French dressing.

We forgot to ask donotremove how to make his buttermilk dressing. He makes everything else with it so I'm sure he must have a salad dressing as well which I forgot about the other day.

As Julia Child said, giantess of a Scot that she was,"Bon Appetite!"


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 14, 2007, 12:18:34 AM
Ps.

If your nose doesn't respond that way, use a fork or the end of the paring knife to test the potatoes which is for sure the way to know that your chicken and potatoes are ready to eat.  Isabel once told me you have to eat things like this with "mushy peas".

The benefit of this dish is the very small amount of grape-seed oil which you use to brown the chicken which is later placed over the potatoes in the same pan so that the juices from the chicken flavor and even color the potatoes so that they appear to be buttered but they are not; no extra "buttering" has been added. Just what you would be eatting if you ate the chicken alone. But this way it is delicious. Aren't those Scots clever?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 14, 2007, 02:05:05 AM
Maddie,

With your indulgence, I'd like to make a few small corrections to your scottish potatoes & chicken skillet. First of all, DO NOT SOAK THE POTATOES - you will leach out all the water-soluble vitamins including the valuable Vitamin C. Scrub them good and slice then with the jackets on just before putting them in the skillet. You can add some sliced onion to the potatoes (that probably makes it more german than scotch, but I put onion in almost everything I make). And, I have no idea what grape seed oil is or where to get it. Some plain ole vegetable oil or some less version olive oil should do just as well. Just don't soak those potatoes. If you must peel them, do so just before cutting and adding them. Oh, and if you're watching your cholesterol, you may want to take the skins off those chicken thighs before cooking. The oil in the pan should keep them from sticking. The potatoes will not yellow up so well, unless of course, you use the yellow-colored Perdue chicken. If you want the potatoes yellow, add a drop of food coloring in the water after the potatoes have browned a bit.

BTW, the summer day you describe only happens in Virginia when a huricane goes through, in which case my electricity is typically off, and I'm not going in the freezer to get the chicken out just in case the electricity comes back on before the whole thing thaws. We usually eat whatever is in the refrigerator, and what is in cans until the power comes back on. If it stretches past the third day, I'm cooking everything in the freezer on the grill and putting it in a cooler with ice, if I can find any stores selling it within a 2 hr drive, hoping for the best.




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 14, 2007, 03:43:50 AM
Weezo, yes to last minute handling of raw potatoes and leaving the skins on whenever possible, but taking off those chicken skins BEFORE cooking?  Never.  Discard the skins BEFORE serving.  Veggie oil or olive oil is fine.  I haven't tried grape seed oil yet (or peanut oil).  It seems to be included in food conversations here of late.

What isn't talked about enough was mentioned by Maddy in a previous post.  Oil infusions.  You know, like putting garlic in olive oil.  Left overly long these infusions can go bad and make you VERY sick, maybe even six feet under.  Three weeks would, I think, be the maximum.  As for me, I infuse when I cook.  Never mind doing any ahead.

Buttermilk dressing is just buttermilk, vinegar, sugar, and salt and pepper.  Put some buttermilk (a cup?) in a bowl with a Tbsp of sugar, add vinegar (slowly, a tsp at a time) until buttermilk thckens, season to taste.  Pour over shredded cabbage and chopped white onion and chopped green pepper and let stand in fridge for at least four hours, turning now and then.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on July 14, 2007, 03:49:24 AM
I use peanut oil for my chicken,sausage gumbo(which I add shrimp to)The peanut oil is for frying the bone in chicken breasts and then 3/4 cups of the leftover oil are mixed with 3/4 cups of flour to make the dark,darkkkkkk roux.I also use peanut oil to rub my whole turkeys or chickens before cooking them indirect heat on my Weber Charcoal grill.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 14, 2007, 09:13:55 PM
Grapeseed oil is a by-product of wine production and has been a favorite of European chefs for hundreds of years due to its many fine qualities as an edible oil.

Recent studies have demonstrated that grapeseed oil may also be effective in correcting blood cholesterol levels in certain individuals, thereby reducing their risk of cardiac events.

Todays's focus is not simply on total cholesterol, but rather on the levels of HDL (the "good" cholesterol) and LDL (the "bad" cholesterol),and the ratio of HDL to total cholesterol.

Major studies have confirmed that for each percent increase in HDL,  there is a 3-4% decrease in the incidence of cardiac events. In two studies conducted by Dr. David T.Nash,  a research cardiologist at the State University of New York Health Science Center, it was shown that subjects who included a small amount of grapeseed oil daily in a low-fat diet over a four week period, experienced an increase in their HDL of 13% and a decrease in the LDL of 7%.

Graoeseed oil  is one of the few natural foods known to raise HDL. HDL appears to reduce LDL by loosening it from the arterial walls so it can be carried to the liver for elimination. Grapeseed oil is also an excellent natural source of vitamin E and essential fatty acids necessary for normal cell metabolism and maintenance.

By increasing the HDL in your blood, and reducing the LDL and triglycerides through healthy diet and exercise, you may be adding years of wellness to your life.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 14, 2007, 10:44:07 PM
I first got into this in the early to mid-1990s, in the last years of my mother's life, who was somewhat like that woman who wrote the cook book which is titled something about,"Frenchwomen don't get Fat" and that is not entirely true but my mother never did --even after seven children, and although she was an extremely good cook who had studied dietetics in nursing school, she ate salads.  That was the outstanding thing.

However she was wary of cardiac disease and I began paying attention to the properties of oils and how they varied so that I could recommend to her what was especially beneficial to the heart that could be used on her favored salads. Extra virgin olive oil is considered good, walnut oil is even better for the heart -- when eatten on salads rather than for cooking; in other words do not use walnut oil  in cooking but as is (although I have found that in small amounts it can be used to flavor baking and things which would have a desired walnut flavor; but this is based on the fact that eating walnuts is considered beneficial to the heart). Up till that point I had used P'nut oil in New Orleans cooking and in Chinese cooking. It was at that point that I stopped after twenty years of doing en masse Chinese cooking which, originally, raised money to send delegations to
China, if you remember the Shirley McLaine period when she took a womens' delegation with her;a movie was made about it called Women Hold Up Half the Sky (which is kind of the Chinese equivalent expression to the American frontier saying, "she pulls her own weight").

Well, Mom lived to 84 years of age which was more than average for her family.

At about the same time as discovering what nutrients were supplied in various oils and what their use accomplished for you, it was at this period of time that people began to find out about a cooking technique used by French cooks in which they rapidly saute meat at a very high heat which seals in the nutrients and juices and then they lower the  heat to finish off the cooking.  It is tricky at first when the concept is strange to American habits, but one thing that comes through, as you get used to how this works and how to time your searing and how quickly the cooking temperature rises so that you control it, is that grape seed oil more quickly reaches a high temperature for searing meat , so that you need very little oil to accomplish this part of your cooking and you are using much less oil.  Which is a good thing in at least two ways, it is better for you and, grapeseed oil is not inexpensive in comparison to what is usually found on supermarket shelves in the US.  Yet, a pint and a half of it lasts me for many weeks and sometimes months depending on the season (because I also do a lot of Italian cooking  when I'm in the mood for it and then I use extra virgin olive oil for its pure Italian flavor).

This high temperature searing technique is not what is known as "Blackened" anything. The object it to quick-fry,lock in the juices and nutrients fast for the nourishment, but not to blacken.  This does not mean that I never slow cook what has always preferably been done that way.

We have a lot of regionally/locally available brands of chicken(and eggs) without hormones or steroids used in their feeding, raising, production what ever you want to call it. This does not mean to say that we do not also have a lot of those name-brand big operations that use chicken in just about everthing packageable as a variation on a chicken-treat of some kind and I just skip right past all that.  There is a third category that is a synthesis,which produces pure chicken and I found out about when out of state where it was brought to market in New Jersey, whereas I seem to have a devil of a time obtaining it here where it is produced.  If you go to Fredricksburg (and if that sounds like a Civil War battle field, I think that it is) you can buy all that Bell&Evans produces, even convenience packaging items but it is a waste of gas here,  along with the time-intolerance of people in my age group who get to sound like and behave like kids do about being in a car for any length of time.

When I had to go back to New Jersey to pick up new glasses, I discovered at my old shopping spot in Princeton that there were all those bright blue and white boxes of varieties of convenience  chicken fast-food but clean by Bell& Evans, wouldn't you know. That is the very reason hardly any of it is distributed locally where I live since they have a high demand market built in where I used to live and they get first choice. Of course, I can not say, because I have not used the packaged products, and therefore have not been tempted to read the package often enough to know if what they put on the chicken is what I might prefer to use at home?  Such is life.

I still have the option of fixing the available butchered and cleaned and plain package of parts or  whole or buy an equally good product from Horsham, Pa.

We also produce a lot of earthy potatoes here although, for the Stovies, I
happened to have a Maryland potato of the kind most used for potato chips as I learned back in the days when my son was momentarily engaged to Mali Utz. 

I look at it this way, whenever I want to eat a potato skin, I bake a potato; or I go buy some local new potatoes when they are young and small and cook quickly whole to be eatten with fresh parsley when you smash them on your plate.  Eating each one of these things in season is often enough when they are in their prime. Because there is always something new in the turning seasons of the year.  For instance, we are close on the time now when the older hens can go in the pot because the corn will be ready and the local folks have always made corn soup at that time of year from chicken, and corn and potatoes, and slips of noodles which are sometime bot-boys and sometimes more like kluski.

Meantime, I probably will one to get in one more or more than chicken with peaches in their prime, backed in the oven, chicken first, peaches halved and seasoned afterward and all eatten off the same plate. This is sometimes accompanied by a dish, that stretches from here into Tennessee and back, of potatoes and green beans cooked together with onion and sometimes Speck. Tennessee is likely to add a tad of hot red pepper flakes .  Here they settle for a grind of black pepper. The classic  dishes in this group are  Himmel und Erde, toward Autumn, or Schnitz und Shpeck.
Ps:
That soup from corn season is often put up and frozen either for the home freezer of Mennonite households or at the locker where it is taken by Amish buggy, so they can savour the corn flavor in the midst of winter; although for now, huge batches will be made in fire houses for benefit sales to raise money to pay medical bills in the community.  I had so much corn in Iowa that I never go crazy about it during the season, may make some in the fry pan with peppers and cream, eventually making my mother's recipe of scalloped corn casserole, and I can not find the accurate recipe that produces the kind of corn relish available at home --no matter how I try which should be crisp, and yellow, and cold with a sprinkle of colorful peppers. We called it Aunt Nelly's brand from the A & P !


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 14, 2007, 11:26:56 PM
Maddie,

Thanks for the explanation of the oils. I've never seen grapeseed oil in a store. Maybe I'll check at Ukrop's when I go there again - they have more exotic stuff than Food Lion. I always thought walnut oil was a furniture polish! I usually keep two oils around, Wesson Vegetable, and Olive Oil Extra Virgin. I usually buy bottled salad dressings since we really prefer the salad with no dressing anyway, but sometimes I'll put some raspberry vinegrette on it. We like to put the cheese dressings over green cooked veggies like broccoli or green beans or asparagus.

Used to make chicken-corn-noodle soup often when the boys were growing up. Nothing but the named ingredients, water, salt & pepper - make it thick with noodles to stick to the ribs! Used real egg noodles rather than those artificially colored noodles they sell these days. My aunt Dottie used to make her own noodles - she had four boys and a girl to feed! Hubby isn't crazy about pasta or noodles, but I did make some schupp noodles, probably to go with pork chops, and he loved them. If the name doesn't ring it bell, you cook the noodles, drain quickly, then add a raw egg and stir into the hot noodles until the egg is barely set. Season, especially with pepper, and serve immediately.

Schnitz & Knepp is a fall dish. Dried apples, dumplings, (made by dropping rolled out biscuit dough into the boiling ham). Add the dried apples with the dumplings and all will come out right.  Of course, it is impossible to get decent schnitz outside of PA. I do have the directions to make my own. If we get some decent apples off the tree this year, I will give it a try. I've never made schnitz & knepp for hubby! But he's heard of it as long as he's married to me. It's more of a meal for a big family than a meal for an couple of oldsters.

BTW, have you ever used Cope's Dried Corn? It is deliciously sweet. The only dried corn I've ever seen is Cope's, and could only buy it in PA. Hubby loved it! I think I can get it online and may order some this year. It's late in the year for now, but by fall, it should be a new stock.

Oh, and Fredericksburg is indeed the location of Civil War battlefields. I was there two years ago with a friend who was there to sign her book at the library, and she did some geneology searching while she was there. It's too far away to go grocery shopping.






Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 15, 2007, 01:18:01 AM
Well, I knew there was a reason that the name was familiar but obviously your Fredericksburg is the battle site and,as you know, Fredericksburg,Pa. is definitely not the one although it is a rinky-dink little town from that Civil War era.

With Gettysburg being right across the river, one could jump to that conclusion  without having read sufficient Civil War history. Thanatopsy can tell you that I instigated a spur of the moment tiff in American history with someone who had adverse opinions about how the war turned out (I suspect you would have had a similar reaction to my own); before I knew what I was doing, I protested in a restive manner that we were aware of our relatives participation in the war as much as any southerner his or her family. Three generations removed from my own, I was sitting with my great-aunt showing me their daguerrotypes, her uncles in uniform when I was a woman in my forties. It is only in after thought that I reflect we were sitting in a small river town where Lincoln came through stumping on his campaign. Then finally it catches up with your common sense, that my very old great aunt would have had a vague memory of these men in her childhood had they survived to be as old as she herself but they did not. But instead they were images of which she was the last caretaker. If I am not entirely wrong, they would have been her mother's brothers from New York State; no wonder she inherited the duty of keeping their pictures.

As you may know, Gettysburg has come to bad times, ever since the government turned over "the park" to be rented out in portions, and as is only right in America, to freely express their point of view, no matter what uniforms they wear or what insignia they carry. I wasn't sure if you did know,  because I was ready to crash over the postings yesterday morning, but the Klan does come out  regularly to Gettysburg  to support the new American Nationalist Socialist party at their rallies. Likewise at Valley Forge. Strange impass we 've come to,  in our own time.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 15, 2007, 09:22:14 AM
Maddie,

Virginia is littered with Civil War battlefields. I think someone once said there were more battles in Virginia than anywhere else.

I went to Gettysburg as a child, and was so impressed with the lit map, in blue and red, that showed the advancement of the armies here and there. I'm sure that map is long gone. But with that in my mind as an expectation, I went to Appomattox shortly after I moved to Virginia forty years ago, and was sorely disappointed to find it just a sleepy, run down village with no evidence of its role in history. Since then Appomattox has been spruced up, but nowhere to the extent that Gettysburg was in my childhood.

Have you ever been to Little America, somewhere in the countryside near Berks County, or possibly in it? According to family history, my grandfather, Irvin Rathman, was the man who electrified Little America, and his descendents were allowed to visit free of charge. I don't know if it still exists. I'm sure the electrification has been updated, and if I were to go there now, they would say Irvin who? I think my granfather also helped with the original electrification of Crystal Cave in Berks County.

In the use of your grapeseed oil to sear the meat before cooking, how high of heat is necessary? I have a family heirloom iron skillet (hubby's family), but most often use teflon coated skillets that, it is said, will give off toxic fumes if heated too high. I usually start meat on medium high, and reduce the heat as soon as it is browned. Usually I just use margarine for such tasks, as it imparts a nice brown color to the meat.

I've never been successful in "seasoning" an iron skillet so that it doesn't rust when it goes in the dishwasher. Yes, I know that the dishwasher is supposed to be a no-no for iron skillets, but the one I have is so well seasoned that it goes on, needing a once-a-year trip in the oven with a bottom of oil or crisco, to keep it from rusting.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 15, 2007, 08:04:35 PM
No Teflon. It comes off gradually in the food.  I once had the perfect koshering technique for the iron skillets -- of which I have a big collection in case we have to cook without any of the indoor cooking arrangement and fuels. I should have bought an iron wok years ago when they were readily available. Iron was koshered over intense heat for purposes of separating fleisch from dairy,etc. There were not enough Jews to get up a minyon in Pennslvania's hinterlands, so there were no temples, or burial places or synagogues, and the few peddlers who came through eventually corrected the necessities of life by using churches in the city and then they instituted a cemetery.  When I arrived, the place was bereft of food in particularly marked for the Holidays with dates on them, and there was one Jewish Community Center but who ever heard of a JCC that does not serve absolutely delicious food in at least two or three locations on the premises.  Nada.   So eventually a man opened a Bubbies Baggle and we were back into smoked fish and lox. He had to sell the franchise to take care of his wife and suddenly the new help,teenage girls again from high-school, not necessarily Jewish, could not understand how long chopped liver lasts in a show-case, so I gave up, and make my own once in awhile because as I said this is the home of Empire chickens(including chicken livers) and turkeys.

Other than that I am satisfied when the iron is clean, it is the grandmother's grease syndrome which introduced teflon in the first place. A clean iron skillet in whatever size, and I size them for a number  of practicalities, is about the one time and use that I have for spray cans of olive oil for instance. You spray a cleaned skilled and wipe it out immediately with paper towel. I avoid rust like the plague because I have some old large diameter pie tins that are fabulously New Jersey antique which make up for my loss of my old style corn bread pans.

Got to batten down the hatches before the storm arrives.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 16, 2007, 07:00:26 PM
donotremove, you have reminded me of something invaluable for the necessity of preserving  the food supply in the household whether it is home-grown or brought from the supermarket, butcher, fish-monger, green-grocer, the local farmers, whatever and whomever.

I was faced with that problem shortly after 1970 and I soon found out about Rodale Press.  I have a hunch that the book is still around but probably not at the price of books back then. I went into shock , following the table of contents  to see if what you wanted was all there, when I turned to check the date of copyright and saw the price tag which is a pittance of what we look for at Amazon,etc.

I think you can probably find this in the Library so that you can check it out and see if it is what you want to have around your kitchen (I dearly miss my walk in pantry of the old German kind from the kitchen to the northwall of the house. It  had a counter the length and also the width of the pantry on that north wall. Plus two shelves above, space underneath the counter, and built in drawers under the counter of the north wall. My relatives when coming to visit, usually went to the pantry as soon as feasible just to stand there in awe and a moment of nostalgia to their childhood visits to grandmother's).

I was able to  hang a plant lamp under the shelf and over the counter, on the left as you came in the door, where I could begin starter plants for the kitchen garden, the canning jars went above with the filled jars further toward the back of the pantry, there was plenty of room for the  cook books and catalogues from seed and garden supply stores; and the drawers held berry boxes of seeds categorized for planting season.

The canners went into their place in the pantry along with a hand turned grinding mill  and bushel-baskets or pecks under the counter.

At that time, I soon discovered from experience that my rule of thumb could be when the supply of any particular vegetable was coming to the end in the freezer, or on the pantry shelf, that meant prepare for the planting of that vegetable, it would be time to start the seeds.   During the summer months when the plant lamp was turned off , the lower shelf held crocks and basins to set crocks in when making sauerkraut, although basins are used for many things like holding peaches in acidic water while you prepare to can peaches, pears that I grew as found on the place and always competed at the same time as the tomatoes were ripe for canning(late green tomatoes were pickled, other than those for fried green tomatoes which indeed uses buttermilk and cracker-meal).

In those days, approximately seven dollars would buy all the meat and/or fish I might need for the week because it was served with bountiful amounts of vegetables. I only went into town, that is the city, about four times a year, once at each season, to stock up on tea,spices,sugar, flour, and oils at "Co-ops", remember those?

Here's the book from Rodale that explains it all. Stocking Up. How to Preserve the Foods You Grow Naturally.

There is plenty of information on freezing fruit and vegetables, and how to prepare meat for freezing, the packaging,etc.

Word of caution. Because of what we know about Storm damages and electric outages, a word to the wise; check for where and who is the local supplier of "dry ice" which you have to handle with workmen's gloves, in case there is too long a period that could cause defrosting of your hard work. I was able to bring a gift of venison from the Midwest's northwoods back to the east coast one summer by knowing to look mid-way about end of Indiana to beginning of Ohio when the ice in the cooler would run out, the Amish farm settlements are along the main routes and you keep your eyes peeled for a town  with a special Ice Cream Shop because this will be the place where you can buy dry-ice to finish your trip.

I also had food for though about end of February to March when the thaw has already happened by Valentine's Day in the Midwest and a late snow-storm arrived(we usually had snow on Easter) which was then followed by an ice-storm. If you've ever sat out one of those, it is nerve-wracking,listening to the continual cracking of tree limbs and waiting for one to hit an upstairs window. You try to keep very concentrated but not wasting your energy which you will need in case of emergency, and while I was fixing my eyes on the manual typewriter, suddenly had a realization that if one of those pines, that the German farmers had used to mark acreage in a line, was to come down  on the north-side of the house, it might crash into my pantry even if we didn't need the Red Cross for worse developments.   This is why they used to call the food cellar, the "cellar".

Here's a second book put out by The Stephen Greene Press, Brattleboro, Vermont 05301     Putting Food By          The authors are Ruth Hertzberg,Beatrice Vaugh,and Janet Greene

Besides the usual chapter on Freezing, page 122 gives you a list of Freezer Storage Life of Various Foods, while the opposite page tells you about Keeping an inventory, and Caring for the Freezer.  And,my gosh when that book came out in '73, at over 360 pages in a nicely wiped-off cover paper-back, it was all of $3.95.

I have a few other ideas that might interest you, that I have to check for current status from a web-site of a seed company and plant dealer which has a lot of texts that are useful and equipment not found as readily.  Also for old recipes: Farm Journal's Country Cookbook; and,
Grandmother's Country Cookbook, by Ted and Jean Kaufman. A name which is also familiar from a hardware store in Mennonite Ohio or Indiana,forget which, that has all the gear the homesteader needs to put up or shut up.

I'm still in hysterics from last night's episode of Big Love, as you can tell.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 16, 2007, 09:09:03 PM
Maddie,

I have the Stocking Up book since it came out. I also have Putting Food By, but have it in the box of books to go to my mother-in-law's shop to be resold. It is a bit out of date, and, although I can't remember why I chose to discard it, it was a few weeks ago, but I saw some entries that need to be overlooked. Probably it was under the canning, which seemed dated.

End of the season tomatoes are best handled by bagging them up and dropping them in the freezer whole. They are wonderful dropped, frozen in the bag, into stews and other potted meals. I love fried green tomatoes. One year we didn't have a frost until after Thanksgiving, so we had fried green tomatoes for Christmas, along with some red ones that ripened on the window sill.

Buttermilk was never handy, so I always dunked the slices of green tomatoes into egg (blended yellow and white with a fork) before the bread crumbs (or cracker crumbs, or even wheat germ!) before putting them in the skillet with some hot margarine, or vegetable oil.

I have a number of books from Rodale Press and they stay on my shelves when the lesser books move on to the library or Fran's shop. I used to subscribe to the Organic Gardeneing magazine in the 70's, but stopped when, after more than a decade, they began repeating themselves. By that time the old J. I. Rodale had retired, and the magazine was managed by Robert Rodale. In time, J. I. Rodale, who preached mightily against the use of dairy and wheat to prevent heart attacks, died of a heart attack. It was similar with Adele Davis who preached her nutrition programs to prevent cancer, then died of cancer herself. I guess, it is best not to preach too much!





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 16, 2007, 09:32:02 PM
weezo, I was introduced to the Adele Davis regimen by another dancer that I met if not in the studio, at maybe an audition for actors, or the home of an aquaintance who was attempting to produce theatrical vignettes from literary classics of either  epic poetry or Irish theatre and whose husband was an art instructor (and locally well-known painter)in an art school where I modeled because I was a dancer.

All that to say this, as I once told donotremove, before going to classes at Martha Grahams, we were told by Adele Davis' book or books that the thing to have was a hearty breakfast of a quarter pound hamburger with wheat germ and a side order of same weight of cottage cheese, I sometimes added salad of lettuce and vegetables, and topped it off with malted milk shake in chocolate.  At 110 lbs in those days, could not allow a dancer's metabolism to make me lose weight. While still at home with my parents, I would come in from the studio and have supper of two helpings of everything, meat,potatoes, vegetables, and two
desserts,please.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 16, 2007, 09:41:10 PM
Ps,weezo, generally I used one or another of several varieties of Italian,plum-tomatoes,or pear-tomatoes. I still like San Marzano best even if we don't live under Vesuvius.  That's because I would use the canned tomatoes for Italian sauces until the new fresh crop came in.

A good way of saving tomatoes on the verge of ripening, or they may be as yet quite hard, whether Brandywines or other heirlooms or Burpee,whatever, was to bring them in and then rip up a bunch newspapers into squares, wrap each tomato and stow in a box down in the basement. Check it to see how it is coming along and you may have enough tomatoes to see you through the winter. Tomatoes ripen by being with each other at a regular room temperature. But you have to shift them around a bit if you have a basket set out in the kitchen at this season. In those days, back in the Seventies, no one would have thought of buying up and shifting the produce from the Canadian hot-houses(other than the English whimsical need for long Chinese cucumbers from which to make cucumber sandwiches) so we could have tomatoes early in the year before the local crop was ready. Instead we had the ghastly pink American same size tomato without taste or odor.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 17, 2007, 05:56:33 AM
Maddy, not that I mind reading one (or several) of your "the absolute last word on this" posts,  :) but the "drought" I was refering to over in Popular Music was for the time of year it is hard to rustle up a bit of spliff, and that a cure for rollin on the river hard times was a bit of stash in the freezer.  Oh me. I could have sworn that's what you'd been talking about.  My bad.

Anyhoo, I'm glad you brought up Adele Davis.  Lordy, I hadn't thought about her in years--decades.  Reminds me of magazines on cheap paper with those intriguing ads on the back pages.

Weezo, just drop the tomatoes whole in the freezer.  No blanching, peeling, nothing?  That's great, if true.  Affirm please.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 17, 2007, 06:23:37 AM
Donot,

That's right. Take firm tomatoes, red ripe, and drop them into a gallon freezer bag, and into the freezer. After they are frozen, they can take stuff sitting on top, but until they are frozen, let them sit alone near the top of the freezer. When you want to use them, drop them whole into whatever you are cooking. You can lift off the skins as they float up, or leave them for "roughage". It's the easiest thing I know to do with that bumper crop at the end of the season when you are out of steam on eating them every day and they threaten to go bad laying on the counter.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 17, 2007, 09:31:23 AM
Well, you could cut them up, put them in a large pot (depending on how bumper your crop is) with a little olive oil -- and onion if you want to -- and let them simmer a couple of hours, stirring occasionally.  Let them cool a bit, then into a Ziploc bag they go; and then into the freezer.  We leave the resultant tomato product like that so it's a good base for whatever we're going to want to make over the winter, rather than committing to the whole sauce procedure.  We're finally coming to the end of last year's batch o' bags, and the contents still taste very fresh.

Of course, the whole tomato system sounds great if you want your tomatoes whole -- maybe we'll mix it up this year.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 17, 2007, 10:57:41 AM
Harrie,

Simmer a couple of hours? Whatever for? It doesn't take that long to cook a tomato. All you are doing is cooking out all the vitamins!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 17, 2007, 11:11:24 AM
The hubby actually does it; and he cooks the tomatoes down at a very low simmer.  We both prefer them a little reduced, not watery; and when they go on to meet their fate as soup base, sauce or whatever, they're going to be cooked again anyway. It's not like either one of us is suffering from malnutrition, trust me.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 17, 2007, 11:12:00 PM
donotremove,re:#274

Actually, I was because some one was so serious about it; so when I got to your post, you'll find the recommendations in the book(s) are just about average application to anything if you follow the wrapping. Here, the risk is mildew. 

I never had that problem because the supply was fresh in the endless summer.  I had a Peace Officer in a four patrol car town who hassled me about everything so I took the hint and told everybody how to use the wood-burning stove after taking advice from Mother Superior. You must remember that in those days, almost all males had beards, the day that the little lady showed up at our house because she noticed that, I called Mother Superior and she said, "Have her call her Dad".  I did. He came and got her. No problem.

They were all conscientious objectors , some who had been tossed by their parents for not being Patriotic,(wannabe gold-star mothers?) some had paid through the nose for legal-advice mills,so  my husband found them jobs  vis a vis the thing we've been talking about in Immigration or Chicano friends from Crystal City,Texas could also score that connection  for them.  I had one genius kid who disqualified for the draft by having one kidney and was afraid he would go to jail but since he had a capacity to discuss geometric and astronomical philosophy on nine planes at the same time, he lucked out when a neighboring attorney picked him up hitch-hiking into city one day and realized in a flash that he had this genius in the car so offered him a scholarship to Univ.of Jerusalem.

We had two kind of Vietnam vets. Those who formed communes with the Discalced Monks because a mercenary of our acquaintance married an heiress in the German newspaper printing interest(local German-American)whose dad owned papermilling facilities and lumbering Timber in our Northwoods --the one where Mother Superior went around swapping whatever from each commune so she could get Maple Syrup.

Does this sound like Twin Peaks,yet.

The other kind of Vietnam vet was back from Nam --so you get the picture. I couldn't so much as have a package, the large kind of cinnamon from China delivered by mail from Nichols in Oregon. It arrived redolent. Which would seem suspicious.  Everything you did in those days seemed suspicious to somebody.

The real problem was the average suburban guy who figured out how to stay out of the war by being a good businessman like Dad.  And they were. But then you  had to write them letters while they did time in a Federal facility. Visiting them was the pits but necessary when my Austrian friend arrived back from India and she had to go see them(religious duty or something) as she was a disciple of Neem Keroli Baba at the time.

The guys with the monks --farmed and were Big Brothers to delinquent school kids, married and were head of household in each  on the land where the order of Carmel monks had accepted the donation of land from the Pine Baron(that's a joke son).   I know you think that I am making this up but it was average life at the end of the Vietnam war for people in that age group.  The  vets from the monastic order's landholding would drop by to visit, they liked the strong coffee and told me I looked healthy.  They all looked like the traveling cover of the Da Vinci Code book cover.

Anyway, as I was asking back there in Pop-Music was what kind of equipment do you use but it hardly matters from what you just told me.

I just did a pot of chicken gumbo and I put in the whole tomatoes with a slit on the end so they don't explode(Tomates ROMA de Bebe).Now I've got to go check on that recommendation made by (a reader?) who told martinbeck that He would go look for Boca who now has come back as el portinito but sounding like  a reader did today in Fiction when he read me out in both places. The one doesn't like the competition. I sent martinbeck a nice African fussball video to make up  for what ever fall-Out you're kidding me!  Now I will go to the New York Times and look around. Care to join me.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on July 19, 2007, 07:09:15 PM
ACK!! We had a violent storm the other night and my tomato plant sorta broke in half!!!!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 20, 2007, 02:24:54 AM
Desdemona, that's terrible news, especially when you have just one.  Next year, plant several.  You should have fresh local vine-ripe tomatoes all around Atlanta right now.  Hie thee to a farmer's market.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Wolverine on July 20, 2007, 03:03:07 AM
Harrie,

Simmer a couple of hours? Whatever for? It doesn't take that long to cook a tomato. All you are doing is cooking out all the vitamins!

The best health gift of the tomato is lycopene which becomes more plentiful when tomatoes are cooked - the longer the better. So even if you might lose some part of another nutrient, it would be preferable to get the maximum amount of lycopene - which is not readily available in other food items.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 20, 2007, 12:26:19 PM
Thank you, Wolverine. I knew there was a reason for doing it that way.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 20, 2007, 05:08:46 PM
HARRIE,I do it that way since the strange old days when the COOKBOOK came out which was known as --Too Many Tomatoes, by Laura G. Myers(end of the sub-title said: For When Your Garden Explodes) It was very handy for the beginning vegetable gardener because the A-to-Zucchini format explained the vegetable itself and how you handle it after it comes from the garden to your kitchen, explicit timing of the cooking in case "you grow older". And then the variety of recipes for that particular vegetable

As it turned out, what she had provided was an explicit Continental tradition of Tomato sauce(both quick and longer versions) that originated from Spain, continued along the Cote d'Azur, Provence, past Monaco and the Savoy down toward Italy. The lycopene answer is the correct one as your husband probably mentioned.  I don't think this has to mean that you never cut up tomatoes on the  hottest day of the year an and sit them with herbs and some salt to get a little juice going to put over a pasta eatten at room temperature like they used to be especially fond of demonstrating to us when the staff of the Today show likes to give you their favourite recipe. That was the Italian solution: to what was basically a French recipe in Too Many Tomatoes

Later, The New York Times brought us Amanda Hesser, usually in the Magazine on Sunday with colorful pictures of food; and although she could get a trifle haute cuisine to show you her prowess, she tops "Too Many Tomatoes" with a book titled: The Cook and the Gardner, so that you almost expect Helen Mirren as she looked when you add His Wife,   and Her Lover; or however that went.... It was actually Hesser's revelation of what French peasants and estate gardeners and their wives(one to a kitchen) do with an excess of everything when the garden has to look trimmed before guests arrive at the main house and the French have perpetually known exactly how to improvise a classic they have made for centuries the instant they walk along the garden and say,"Bon Dieu!" the such and such  had become tres excessive overnight.

Hesser apparently learned by going down to the kitchen to help out and was amazed how this works.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 20, 2007, 05:20:33 PM
Ps. I saved you a great  display of balloons from nytimes.com that I have around here somewhere and I was hoping to use it as a  Montpelier/Montgolfier fan-fare lead in to something that they didn't save in the archives, the day they did Orbach's obit. I hunted for it last night and found tons of memorable information about who he certainly was but the archives make a habit of not saving the sound track  where he was singing from The Fantastics and the picture of him singing and dancing, maybe even a video-link (?) They archive an article without the goodies attached.

But, I could not remember where we were when you did that rim-shot,were we in Celebreality,Movies,Television,or Meander?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 20, 2007, 06:02:58 PM
But, I could not remember where we were when you did that rim-shot,were we in Celebreality,Movies,Television,or Meander?

Ah, yes....I remember it well (with apologies to Gigi).  It was in Television, page 23.

About the tomatoes (and the other veggies), the hubby is descended from Polish farmers on one side and Irish farmers on the other; so a lot of the stuff he does because his grandmothers did things that way, and their mothers before them, etc.  So whether the techniques are French, Italian, Polish or Irish, they all seem to, er, boil down to the same effect -- capturing the essence of the fresh veggies (and fruits, if you include tomatoes). 

Desdemona, I'm sorry to hear about your tomato plant.  I wish I could ship you a plant -- we're still waiting on our first actual red tomato, but we have a bunch of green-tomato-bearing plants, and they're all looking very happy.   


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 20, 2007, 06:25:10 PM

Ah, yes....I remember it well

Thank Heavens...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Wolverine on July 21, 2007, 06:13:26 AM
Anyone else noticed the NYT has abandoned material for the kitchen almost entirely - save for Bittman. The rest of it is primarily 'restaurant advertising.'

Anyone else here onto NPR's the Splendid Table? There's a lot of input material there that would be good fodder for discussion here.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 21, 2007, 09:12:36 PM
I got it! Trojanhorse. Maurice Chevalier (did you know he was considered a collaborator?) The best performance ever witnessed from Leslie Caron as the mother of Juliette Binoche, when she is seated at the dinner table with Jeremy Irons and Miranda Richardson. I keep thinking this film is called, Deception. (???)

harrie:  Mother Superior aka Mother Goose was the best Polish cook ever. She even had me eating Rutabaga, because she put it in vegetable soup made with beef shank which is cut like osso bucco. She cooked as we were taught, in large quantities in case there were visitors,but she had four kids. As they grew to an age of having other things to do, she still cooked commune style because there was a constant flow of people dropping by (and not merely because of the grass in the back yard). When we discovered the actual commune in a four room apartment in one of the ritziest neighborhoods of our city ( how we discovered this was a story in itself but it had to do with the mercenary and the monastery), we immediately began dropping off large pots of food as long as they swore to return the pots, until the Vietnam vets were settled on the monastery commune farm.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 21, 2007, 09:14:16 PM
Wolverine, Is Splendid Table at all to do with the book that I mentioned, by Kaspar that has the recipes for the things that were cooked in The Big Night?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on July 21, 2007, 11:14:07 PM
Splendid Table is an NPR show that is aired on Sundays (from 11 am to 1 pm in my area...but check your listings).   

Here's a link

http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/ (http://splendidtable.publicradio.org/)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 21, 2007, 11:15:23 PM
madupont, all I can say is you have led an interesting life. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 03:07:26 AM
And, it ain't over yet!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Wolverine on July 22, 2007, 03:43:24 AM
MP:


It's the same Kaspar but this quote (from review of Schwartz's 'Naples at Table') is not making clear who has written recipes related to TBN.


"The book is laid out in very traditional chapters, covering antipasti and fried foods; classic sauces; pizza and savory breads; soups; pasta; cheese and eggs; fish and seafood; meat and poultry; vegetables; and desserts. His pasta chapter even includes two different recipes for the famous timballo baked pasta pie, which made such a big impression in Stanley Tucci's movie, `Big Night'. The best thing about his recipes is that they are not the same as the two in Lynne Rossetto Kaspar's `The Italian Country Table', although there are strong family resemblences. The most interesting thing about his `Timballo di Tagliolini is that it has a pastry rather than a pasta crust. "


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 11:37:47 AM
Okay, I gotcha, or I sort of see. Her recipes were actually from the north-central Emilia-Romana, and introduce you to a lot of little known things(unless you are Italian) such as  why some simple pastas (I learned to call them "bastas" from southern Italians)are known by that particular name and how you "simply" form them; which, no doubt about it is work intensive, until you have done it for so long a time in your life, that you begin to have developed work-habits that you take for granted and speed things up.

Or, she might give you a hint on how to make a stock from things that are easier for you to obtain, and which become the basis of a sauce to which you later add tomatoes, etc. . The stock made in whatever quantity you first experiment,can then, of course, be frozen; in our country with the advantage of time having provided these appliances that were virtually unknown when these recipes began often in the Middle Ages or the Renaissance,but of course are available as well in Italy, now, although not on as wide a basis economically.

You are able to remove as much stock as you need for a recipe, at whatever time you plan to start adding ripe tomatoes, fresh herbs, etc.
(continued....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 11:39:57 AM
II.
The Neapolitan cookbook would appear to be a further book in a series of regional recipes, and it is not at all odd that the timballo now has a pastry crust because Naples is where the   pizza was invented, and also where the families originated of the person who taught me that basta was enough! You have to imagine a young mother of several boisterous boys cooking dinner and becoming exasperated until she says,"Basta! Basta!" as loud as she can scare them.

Of course, here's the tricky part, as Stanley Tucci would probably have told you.  I like my pizza to definitely be made with yeast dough that is allowed to rise.  I do not like the fast baked, tasteless crusts that often are brought to the table in America, which remind me of crackers that are very bland.  But the crust that you may have seen in the movie and is in Kaspar's recipe is an actual pie crust that must be rolled. I will have to look around here and see where I put the folder of her recipes.

Why I mentioned that the timballo (or drum) was a recipe that was from as far back as the Middle Ages or Renaissance is because it often contains quite a bit of meat as well as pasta. It was the factor of being able to afford that quite a bit of meat which meant that this was a dish prepared in noble houses. One of the most beautiful kitchens, I could covet, was seen in a series of books put out by the Time-Life, copyright 1968, Foods of the World,series,The Cooking of Italy by Waverly Root who discovered Italian cooking by being in Rome in 1929.

(continued...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 11:41:49 AM
III.
On pages 112 and 113 is a kitchen from an 18th.century Villa de Piovene, near Vicenza, northwest of Venice, with a pink marble "fountain" from the 16th.century above the kitchen sink; well,I should say, it is actually: The kitchen sink, carved for a monastery nearby and then adapted by the Villa, with the bank of marble above containing the spigots from lion-mouths which the old cook (who has been there for fifty years) opens to pour into wooden bucket where she does the dishes. These are placed in what might be the dry-sink, depending on the plumbing; beneath the spigots,  and that upper part of the "fountain" is supported by -- two supine small lions who sit on either side of her wash area. It is like an Altar piece for doing the dishes.  In any case,if without the drain, she will have to remove the buckets which are huge and get them somehow to the garden, to dump the soap suds on the roses.

I would imagine that unless the water heater is behind the facade in the archway behind the "sink", the water had to be carried over from the hearth which stands behind her in the next arch and is at least 12 feet wide, with the mantel adorned, much higher than she can reach, with brass vessels, quite large, with spouts,  which probably stood on a tripod among the coals where the water could stay warm.

It is said,that she,the cook,
accepts the gas range (which I do not see anywhere in the pictures) but prefers to cook on the hearth.  Her dishes, pots and pans dry in a rack above another dry sink, to her right, where the racks of wood are slats attached to the wall beneath the tall wide windows above; which are her main light source although there are suspended lamps,which are electric,above her central work area of a bare wooden table where she lays out her food preparations. I often worked this way with a table that could be bleached down when necessary.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 11:44:02 AM
IV.
Emilia-Romagna is regionally directly to the south, with an Adriatic sea coast, and south of there is Tuscany on the Ligurian coast. My son and I differ about the pronunciation of Tuscany because I pronounce it like the English poets did, which he never heard of in his school days and decided Mom is utterly unaware because all of his friends have told him how to pronounce these place names as they do: correctly.

I am fond of Emilia-Romagna's cuisine because it is the home of Bologna,the city from which my patron or saint's name originated;as the nuns would take out their breviary to look up the appropriate saint according to the day you were born, if you were born before the first boy in the family.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 22, 2007, 11:45:47 AM
Basta enough.       http://tinyurl.com/2wp36m
Castleberry's recall botulism outbreak in canned meat products from Georgia but found in Texas


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 22, 2007, 01:58:46 PM
Maddie,

I just got this recall notice on foods under Castleberry label. Found two can in my pantry with the UPC codes:

http://www.nationalpetfoundation.com:80/foods/natural-balance.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 02:35:47 AM
I'm going to start where I left off, with a dish from the Veneto where that villa was, because of the location  with Venezia to the east, there is seafood bountifully, and this is a classic Venetian dish. Because the whether is now hot, you will understand what it does and why it is appetizing.

                                 Pesce in Carpione
                 Fish with onion and Prosecco Vinegar Relish
Ingredients:
1 pound boneless, skinless codfish (or preferred fish)
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 cup A.G. Ferrari Foods extra virgin olive oil

For the relish
2 onion (medium size)
1/4 cup extra virgin olive oil
1/2 cup Caramel prosecco vinegar
(any very light dry pale wine vinegar will do that you have on hand until you experiment awhile)
2 Tbsp pine nuts
2 Tbsp raisins
1/2 tsp salt
1 dash fresh ground black pepper

Region: Veneto
Instructions:

To fry the fish:
Slice the fish into small cutlets. Sprinkle cutlets with salt, dip in flour and heat in frying pan lightly covered in extra virgin olive oil. Cut onion into 1/4-inch thick sections. Saute onion in olive oil for 3 to 4 minutes. Add pine nuts, raisins, salt, pepper and vinegar. Slowly cook for 10 to 12 minutes. In a glass or ceramic container, place 1/3 of the onion. Place the fish over the onion and cover with the remaining onion.Let cool for a minimum of 3 hours and serve at room temperature.

Serves 4 to 6.
 
Horribly sorry the picture would not reproduce, as it was very colorful with a small lobster-like langoustine used for a special occasion.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 02:44:02 AM
and as I mentioned before that was north of Emilia-Romagna--
hot-weather food, as the pears begin to come in when the tomatoes have ripened.

Involtini di Prosciutto e Pere
Prosciutto and Pear Roulade

Ingredients:

6 slightly thick slices Prosciutto di Parma
1 pear
4 oz ricotta cheese
1 Tbsp cream
salt & pepper to taste
Region: Emilia-Romagna
Instructions:

In a bowl, whip ricotta with cream, salt and pepper to get a
creamy mixture. Wash and core the pear; cut into 12 wedges.
Cut each prosciutto slice in half. Spread each half slice with
1 tsp of ricotta mixture; place a pear wedge on top and wrap.
Seal with a toothpick.
Serves 4 to 6.
 
 








Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 04:24:29 AM
Emilia-Romagna shares a border with Tuscany to the south. This is a dish for autumn in another month or so but best close to Thanksgiving when touched by frost or snow.
                                             Cavolo Nero in Padella
                                              Sauteed Lacinato Kale
Ingredients:
3 bunches Lacinato kale
1 tsp salt
1/3 cup A.G. Ferrari Extra Virgin Olive Oil
1/2 onion, coarsely chopped
2 garlic cloves, coarsely chopped
1/4 cup A.G. Ferrari Annibale Bianco white wine*
1/2 tsp freshly ground black pepper
Region: Tuscany
Instructions:
Wash and boil the kale in 3 quarts of water with 1 tsp salt for 10 to 15 minutes.Drain and set aside.
Slowly saute onion and garlic with olive oil for 8 to 10 minutes. Coarsely chop the kale and add it to the onion. Add the wine and saute for 6 to 8 minutes more.

Season with black pepper; remove from heat and serve hot.or as a vegetable side dish.

Serves 4 to 6
 
 *A lush,  minerally Tuscan white with a snappy, crisp finish.

This is not your ordinary garden kale, it is not the curly stuff or Siberian Kale but a tall plant which is, as you can tell by the name,Black Kale(meaning that it is very dark). When I have the proper place for growing it, I always try to put some in although it takes nearly three months to grow and is at the very best when it has cooler temperatures at  harvest; so this takes careful timing according to your climate. It is not like Swiss chard which take summer heat and can be started in Spring, although both like a rich,sandy,minerally soil,may should be a good time to seed into the garden but as I have not done this in awhile I will check the specifications and drop some proper hints --in the garden....

This was a favored and famous dish of the actor Vincent Schiavelli
who was one of the first more humorous Italian cooks on tv as a writer of a cookbook. You remember him in the movies and on tv in your childhood.




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 25, 2007, 09:32:44 PM
I've found one more recipe from the Ligurian coasts west of Tuscany which is beloved by little children.

A Ligurian Classic, pasta in broth.

Ingredients
 
4 large Free Range eggs
1 tablespoon buttery extra virgin olive oil
3 tablespoon cold water
1 pinch sea salt
4 to 5 tablespoon minced fresh marjoram
1 cup freshly grated Parmigiano-Reggiano
6 ounces stelline pasta
7 cups homemade chicken broth
 
 
Directions
 
1. In a large bowl, beat the eggs with the olive oil, water, salt, marjoram, and Parmigiano.
 
2. Cook the stelline in the broth until it is al dente - 6 to 7 minutes. Once the pasta is cooked, add the egg mixture and beat with a whisk only until all the ingredients are thoroughly combined. Serve immediately.

Stelline are those tiny little stars sometimes mistaken for, but always interchangeable with, acini de pepe which are readily edible and digestible for even very young children.
 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 25, 2007, 10:06:23 PM
Maddie,

Allow me to play a bit with that last recipe:

Take a can of Chicken & Stars soup, put it in a pan with a can of water. While it is coming to a boil, beat an egg, add 1/4 cup of parmasan cheese from the can in the back of the refrigerator, add two pinches of marjaram. When the soup comes to a boil, turn it off. Add the egg mixture and mix with whisk, or a fork if you don't have a whisk. Serve immediately. 

I skipped the olive oil and salt since the canned soup has enough of both. It sounds like a good lunch for the kids!



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 26, 2007, 06:17:26 AM
Weezo.  :)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 26, 2007, 10:41:20 AM
Open can of Mrs. Grimes chili beans.  Pour into pan.  Heat gently and sprinkle in bits of broken corn chips and diced tomatoes.  Add a shot of tabasco.  Serve with grated cheese on top.  Umm.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 26, 2007, 11:00:14 AM
Ah yes, Barton.  A twist on Frito pie.  Love that hot sauce.  I go for Louisiana brand, not Tabasco(TM).  You can mash canned chili beans, spread generously on a flour tortilla, add fresh chopped white onion, cheddar cheese (or whatever you've got, even feta or goat), hot sauce, and nuke in the microwave about 45 seconds.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 26, 2007, 01:15:20 PM
Excuse me, but along with the Castleberry recall, yesterday nobody announced a recall after man found a fried mouse in his chips made by Fritolay.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 26, 2007, 02:21:09 PM
Drat, Maddy.  Wish I'd fond that mouse.  I need the money.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 26, 2007, 02:31:48 PM
barton and donotremove (now that sounds like a couple of attorneys for a holding company that writes out writs for eminent domain)

My mother taught me to make chili somewhere between age 8 and 10.

Therefore,it seemed perfectly reasonable at some point in my late twenties to discover that a can of refried beans when they carefully have exactly that done to it in a certain quantity of lard, and corrected for sufficent garlic,cumino,coriander, and what I now sometimes opt for:powders from -- Los Chileros de Nuevo Mexico ( or,"ay chihuahua!), comes out about right.

But since she also specialized in dietetics while in nursing school, common sense told me in the 1990s not to use lard in frying my fastnachts. As Dr.Mehmet Oz explained rather well, the Amish walk it off, and Amish men have an impossible amount of whatever, either too little to become ill (or, too much!), as I would say.  I am preconditioned to not be able to take my eyes off of them and that is my mother's fault. But it was at about that point where Bush signed his permission to allow the Canadian beef back into the US as a gratuity to the Canadians for being so cooperative with his human border-stipulations.  Screw that.

From that moment no lard, no gelatin, notice that I did not give a recipe for osso bucco in the Tuscany section of my  Tuti table a mangare! And I love Bracciole and/or spiedini.

 I still think Lidia Bastianich is the best Italian cook in her simple demonstrations of how Italian-American food is cooked and Italian as she remembers it from Venice (she leaves a great deal of this on-site cooking in Italy to her daughter or was it her daughter in law who married Joseph who runs the Manhattan branch of her restaurants.

She has one out here in Pittsburgh, and another on the West Coast and it seems to me another one wandering around somewhere in a place that makes sense.  Her family has an exceptional solidarity where they can all come home within a matter of blocks for family dinner on Sunday, except for the cooking tours in Italy during the tourist season, but at Lydia's Table in her sensible kitchen Northern style where you can see the grill by which people used to keep warm, it was so family that even her mother from Serbia went out to the back-yard to snip the  "first cut" of salad greens.

Watching her when she showed up, I happily noted all the methods that I had learned in Italian kitchens, as well as Greek kitchens, for I learned from how friends cooked. Although they came from different antipodes of the economy. There is a reason for why they feed children in the way that they do(my Greek friend often allowed her son Demetrios to cook although he was a tiny snip of a boy compared to his older brother Alex[named after you know who], because "Demi" remembered to put the cinnamon in the meat sauce for pasticio. His cooking was excellent.

That probably is why I didn't bother to include how you make the soup into which the Pastina in Brodo becomes food for children (and invalids).
But that can be corrected.  Nowadays, I often open those cartons from the West Coast but there is nothing like what Lynn Rosetto Kaspar came up with for Americans to adapt the ways of Northern Italian cuisine to their own kitchens. Less salt.
But, no olive oil in the recipe, not even a tablespoon (when you should have at least two of those per day)? Even Dr.Oz explained rather carefully why pasta and bread is eatten with a sauce that contains olive oil  or is just plain olive oil . It is the heart-smart diet. At which point he orders the wine at table so he still is drinking it when the waiter asks about dessert? Mehmet Oz says the chemistry of wine at that point makes you uninterested in dessert such as tarimisu or the one in a champagne flute that I almost included for zabaione.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 26, 2007, 02:40:31 PM
Ps.

I almost included in the mouse post that I had a metallic piece from the nuts and bolts of Herr's company out here in Pennsylvania  show up in a bag of crackers I was munching while watching Oprah in New Jersey! That did it.  Usually, if you complain, as I did about the Natural P'nut butter, nowadays they just send you some coupons to make up for it; implying without saying that of course they want to give you back the price you paid for their product.  They leave it up to you to go to that law firm that I mentioned -- Barton and Donotremove, to see if Glenn Close will take the case claiming mental damages such as stress and disorientation because of what might have happened to you.

They figure at the companies that, if you are able to write to them, then you are well enough to survive.  Especially, along with their theory that a fried mouse would have had all its germs and viruses destroyed in the frying. It's a new product line called, Live and Learn.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 26, 2007, 02:52:12 PM
Not to mention that in most parts of the Third World fried rat is definately on the menu.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on July 27, 2007, 09:46:26 AM
"most parts", donot?...don't think so.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on July 27, 2007, 09:48:03 AM
for fried rat se Remy on Ratatui. A great film intimately related to food.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 27, 2007, 11:31:56 AM
The mouse was going to get into that bag of Fritos....


or die frying.




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 27, 2007, 02:05:47 PM
Food in Botulism Recall Still on Shelves
By ANDREW BRIDGES,
AP
Posted: 2007-07-27 11:07:48
Filed Under: Business News, Health, Nation
http://tinyurl.com/32rnno


The following brands are affected:

Austex
Best Yet
Big Y
Black Rock
Bloom
Bryan
Bunker Hill
Castleberry's
Cattle Drive
Firefighters
Food Club
Food Lion
Goldstar
Great Value
Kroger
Lowes
Meijer
Morton House
Natural Balance dog food
Paramount
Piggly Wiggly
Prudence
Southern Home
Steak N Shake
Thrifty Maid
Triple Bar
Value Time



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Lists: Recalled Castleberry's Products | Food and Product Recalls

Botulism: Symptoms and Treatment


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 27, 2007, 03:25:21 PM
I'm no fan of Frito-Lay, but I can't help but recall the people who finally confessed to putting their own --not really their own, but one they brought along for this purpose -- fingertip into a bowl of Wendy's chili.  It'll be interesting to see how this one shakes out.  (I love your pun, barton.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on July 27, 2007, 04:31:58 PM
I got it! Trojanhorse. Maurice Chevalier (did you know he was considered a collaborator?)

Well it was War time... and it was... France after all...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 27, 2007, 10:20:28 PM
France wasn't the enemy. Unless you were German. [and, maybe before that we should count English?]


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 28, 2007, 01:44:41 AM
 Serious food.  The  speaker describing directions is Lidia Bastianich
 

For the pasta:

2 cups all-purpose flour, plus more for working

1/2 teaspoon salt

2 large eggs

1/3 cup very cold water, or as needed

For the sauce:

1/2 cup extra-virgin olive oil

2 garlic cloves, crushed and peeled

1 cup thinly sliced onion

1 tablespoon shredded fresh sage leaves, packed to measure (4 to 6 leaves)

2 teaspoons coarse sea salt or kosher salt, plus more to cook the makaruni

2 pounds fresh chanterelles and/or mixed fresh mushrooms, such as porcini, shiitake, cremini, and common white, cleaned and sliced

4 tablespoons tomato paste

2 cups hot light stock (chicken, turkey, or vegetable broth), or more as needed

Freshly ground black pepper to taste

2 tablespoons chopped fresh Italian parsley

1/2 cup freshly grated Grana Padano or Parmigiano-Reggiano

Recommended Equipment:

A food processor fitted with metal blade

A dough cutter and trays for the makaruni

A heavy-bottomed sauté or saucepan, 13-inch diameter, with a cover

A large pot for cooking the makaruni



Serves 6 as a first course or 4 as a main course





  Makaruni with Chanterelle Mushrooms
 Makaruni are traditional in Istria, a kind of pasta made when there was no time to roll, cut, and shape it. Rolling little pieces of dough between the palms of one's hands was quick and effective.

My grandmother and other women of her generation were expert makaruni-makers. In no time, they would take a big batch of pasta dough and turn it into slim little noodles. Instead of rolling the bits of dough back and forth for a second or two, my grandmother could compress and stretch a piece of dough into a perfect makaruni with one swipe of her hands—and flick it right onto her floured tray in the same movement.

Forming makaruni is truly simple, and once you start rolling, you'll quickly become proficient. Today, as when I was a child, the whole process is fun, so get the family to help and the makaruni will be done fast. And in a few minutes you'll enjoy the great taste and texture of your handiwork.

This delicious sauce is traditionally made with gallinacci, or chanterelles, though other mushrooms can be used. Makaruni are also wonderful with the amatriciana sauce of tomato and bacon on page 228.

To mix the makaruni dough, put the flour and salt in the food processor and blend for a few seconds. Beat the eggs with a fork, then mix with the water in a spouted measuring cup. Start the food processor running, and pour in the liquids through the feed tube. Process for 30 to 40 seconds, until a soft dough forms and gathers on the blade. If it doesn't and is wet and sticky, process in more flour in small additions. If it is dry and stiff, process in more cold water, by spoonfuls. Turn out the dough and knead it briefly, until smooth and stretchy. Form into a round, cover it in plastic wrap, and let rest at room temperature for 30 minutes.

To make makaruni, cut off a lemon-sized lump of dough; wrap the rest in plastic. Lightly flour the work surface, and have a floured tray close by. Pinch off six or so marble-sized bits of dough. Roll each between your palms, back and forth, into a strand about 2 inches long, and drop it on the floured tray.

The makaruni won't be uniform, so don't worry if some are fatter and shorter or skinnier and longer. Cut more small bits for rolling, as needed, keeping most of the dough wrapped. Occasionally flour and toss the rolled strands and separate them on the tray, spaced apart in one layer so they don't stick together.

To make the mushroom sauce, pour the olive oil into the large sauté pan, and set over medium-high heat. Toss in the garlic, cook until sizzling, then scatter in the sliced onion and shredded sage leaves. Stir well, season with 1/2 teaspoon salt, and cook until the onion is softened and sizzling. Add the sliced mushrooms, sprinkle on 1 teaspoon salt, and tumble the mushrooms over and over with a big spoon, mixing them with the onion and oil.

Cover the pan, and cook over medium heat, stirring occasionally, until the mushrooms are wilted and bubbling in their own juices. Uncover, raise the heat, and cook, tossing and stirring, to evaporate almost all the liquid. Clear a spot on the pan bottom, drop in the tomato paste, and stir it in the spot for a minute or so, until toasted and fragrant, then stir it all around the pan, to blend with the mushrooms and onions as they caramelize.

Pour in 1 cup of the hot broth, salt again, stir well, and bring to a boil. Lower the heat, and cook at a bubbling simmer, stirring now and then, until the liquid has cooked down and the sauce is very thick. Stir in another 1/2 cup broth, and cook again until quite concentrated. Stir in the remaining 1/2 cup broth, and cook now to a nice saucy consistency, dense but flowing. The addition of and cooking in broth should take about 15 minutes total. If the mushrooms are not tender, stir in more broth and cook them longer. Adjust the sauce seasonings, adding more salt and freshly ground black pepper to taste, and stir in the chopped parsley.

Meanwhile, heat 6 quarts of salted water to a rolling boil in the large pot. Shake the makaruni in a colander to remove excess flour, and dump them into the pot. Stir well, and return to the boil. At first the makaruni will drop to the bottom of the pot, then rise to the surface of the water. Check for doneness by tasting and cook until just al dente, about 3 minutes or more at the boil.

Bring the mushroom sauce back to a simmer—if it has thickened, loosen it with pasta-cooking water. Lift out the makaruni with a spider, drain briefly, and drop them onto the sauce. Over low heat, toss together until the pasta is fully dressed and cooked. Turn off the heat, and toss in the grated cheese. Serve immediately in warm pasta bowls.


 
 This is from Lidia's Table.  Wish the photo had reproduced.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 29, 2007, 02:26:01 AM
With the forum down, I took the time to prepare the cooling pesce in a good Colavita balsamic wine vinegar, when the thought occurred to me why are vinegared dishes prefered in hot weather? What's the physiology on that?

The only remarks picked up on that topic, "If you have a problem with weight," instead of getting mad at other people's attitudes, I say screw em."   Was the speaker hot under the collar?

But that came under the heading of,"showing people how to care for their health and well-being."  Or a lot of discussion of obesity.

Yesterday, I made it to the farm where the girls are dabbling with heirloom vegetables and unexplained alterations in the eggplants which developed appendages that I've never known. One looked distinctly like Richard Nixon. This amused one out of the two Mennonites as yet below the marriage age for young women. I think it was the younger one who had not got it as to why her older sister was laughing, and giggling with tears in her eyes, and generally cracking up.  It must be something about my deadpan delivery. I left Nixon behind. Just hoping the eggplants do not reveal large seeds from lack of irrigation when I decide what ever I want to make with them.

On the menu, when I came back from the produce stand, was fry-corn, in which you dice up half an onion, and sweat it down in some cold stored bit of bacon drippings, to which you add a quarter cup of green pepper chopped and another of red pepper chopped, sauteed for two or three minutes, to which you now add your  two cups of kernels cut off the cobs,and a half cup of water, cover the pan, lower the heat, give it five, checking to stir once in awhile. 

Side dish, slices of uncured ham for frying, the really thin kind, from that place in Wisconsin that I told you supplies non-Smithfield Ham' What to they call it; Organic Prairie, from La Farge,Wisconsin.

When the ham is drained on a chinet oval, you fold a piece and snip it into strips with your kitchen scissors and stir it into the core, as many as it takes for how many you are serving fried corn in season.

(you can increase the peppers to 2/3s of a cup, if you wish) I ate it with baby mixed salad plus tomato chunks with French dressing.

We talked about nuts recently. I said pistachio. Because I loved the pistachio ice-cream bars that were available when I left my beloved farm-house once owned by Johannes Engle. Had not seen them since in 25 years. Then yesterday, or maybe the day before I found gelato to keep in the freezer; in pistachio flavor no less. My friend Nikki from Chelsea will be leaving for Italy again any day now; I ought to ask her, is it really true there are gelato carts in the streets of Italy?

Tomorrow there will be peach pie made open-faced with heavy cream and over the sugared and floured, sprinkle of nutmeg on the peaches. I added a quarter cup of blanched almonds run through the blender to chop them up and scattered them over the top for the last 8 minutes of browning. It is chilling overnight.  We eat pie for breakfast in this part of the world.

Good night, all.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 29, 2007, 10:10:26 AM
Too much roasemary!

I cooked a rump roast Friday and spilled the rosemary on it. I should have cleaned it off, but was anxious to get it in the oven so I didn't. It has way too much rosemay taste, even a bit of bite from it. I want to freeze some of the sliced beef to make up later. I wonder, if I put it in a gravy, will that lessen the rosemary? Or simmer it with a can of veg-all? Hubby isn't going to like so much rosemary in it. He likes some, but this is too much. I don't want to just throw it away. Sliced thin, it is nice and tender.

Any ideas?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 29, 2007, 12:03:41 PM
Weezo, trickle barbeque sauce, at the last minute, over the thin slices that have been reduced in orange juice, garlic and olive oil in a skillet.  Serve with baby greens and chunks of garlic bread.  Maybe a small baked potato.  All those flavors will dilute the rosemary I think.  Maybe not? 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 29, 2007, 01:24:40 PM
Donot,

I am going to try some horseradish with the slices on a sandwich for lunch and see what that does. The BBQ sauce sounds like a good idea. No orange juice around, since it doesn't agree with me, but have lemon and lime juice. Maybe one of them will work. I like the idea of simmering it in the juice and olive oil.

Thanks for the suggestions.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on July 29, 2007, 02:02:54 PM
Weezo, if you use the lemon or lime, you'll need to add about a tablespoon of brown sugar, just to take the "edge" off.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on July 29, 2007, 02:11:33 PM
Do you think that reheating the roast in a little broth and red wine with potatoes would lessen the intenseness of the rosemary?  The potatoes might absorb some of that flavor...you could toss the potatoes or not...

Or thin slice and reheat in a slow cooker with carrot, onion, red wine and garlic?  It seems that would dilute the rosemary, or at leat mellow it out.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 29, 2007, 06:34:28 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. That lemon/lime with brown sugar sounds interesting!

I'm going to make that last sandwich for dinner tonight (didn't get hungry for lunch), and see how the horseradish does. Then I'm going to pack up the rest of the slices and freeze them and deal with it in a week or two. The freezer will either intensify the rosemary, or cut it down. We'll see which it does. Next time I open an herb bottle, I'll make sure there's a shaker lid on it before dumping. And, I should have just washed it off, but didn't think it would be so intense.

Cooking it with sliced potatoes sounds nice. It will flavor the potatoes well. I like rosemary on potatoes, and it seems like potatoes absorb a lot of flavors.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on July 30, 2007, 06:15:23 AM
weezo: Go easy on rosemary, its a Mediterranean weed, use it on lamb, fish to some extent if grilled, and THAT'S IT,taking rosemay any further afield in cooking is being over-enthusiastic. Never use it on beef much less on pork. And NEVER in stews, no matter what they may tell you, don't trust them, they don't realy know what they're doing (with rosemay), rosemary is an oily weed, would you ad  (oily) ;euchalyptus leaves to your stews?. Then DON"T ad rosemary either.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 30, 2007, 06:50:37 AM
Port,

If I was to restrict my use of rosemary only to lamb, I would never use it! We don't eat lamb. Hubby says it's too greasy, and I don't like the idea of eating that cute animal. I like rosemary on beef and pork. Just not overdone. Rosemary may be a weed in some parts of the world, but in my yard, it requires careful cultivation. We have hot, humid summers. It dies off in any drought.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on July 30, 2007, 09:46:21 AM
Re  Rosemary

Quote
Rosemary may be a weed in some parts of the world, but in my yard, it requires careful cultivation. We have hot, humid summers. It dies off in any drought.

Weezo, if you have a garden, you can interplant the rosemary with some other veggies for their mutual benefit.  We plant it with cabbage.  The rosemary smell is supposed to deter cabbage moths; and as the cabbage leaves grow, they provide some shade for the rosemary.  This, along with a light mulching, helps to retain water and keep the rosemary a little cooler.  Rosemary is also beneficial to beans and carrots, I believe.  Just a thought, in case it can work for you.....

And if you can keep the rosemary going that long, it makes the cutest little Christmas tree when you put tiny lights on it.

Last night, we had our first official garden meal, colcannon made with freshly-picked cabbage.  Unfortunately, the potaotes for last night's repast had to be purchased; but this fall, it'll be a totally garden-grown meal.  Except for the broth, copious amount of butter, etc. of course. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on July 30, 2007, 12:24:39 PM
Cinnamon Toast

This is an old recipe for cinnamon toast, which my grandmother brought over from the old country (Peoria):

Slice of bread, lightly toasted
Butter (or margerine)
Cinnamon
Sugar


Toast the bread.  Sprinkle a half tsp. of sugar onto the bread, immediately after buttering it.  Follow this with cinnamon, applied liberally over the entire area that is already covered with sugar and butter (or margerine).  Allow sugar and cinnamon to absorb some of the butter (or margerine).

Serves one.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 30, 2007, 12:26:28 PM
On the contrary, el port --

Rosemary grown here in most places unless next to the sea, as it is best in that environment, has little resemblence nor the qualities that it picks up in the Mediterranean and east of there.

I have about half a dozen varieties growing dry at present because I don't want the soil conditions to mess with their chemistry. I received most of them from Thomas DiBaggio who was a great plant man now retired when he realized that Alzheimers would prevent him from continuing with business as usual.  I think that I may have added one, which was not his, bred from Haifa. At present, only the Prostratus variety is setting some flowering.

If I had them in the ground, they would surprisingly survive as I learned from another herbalist who had a well noticed garden in Blue Ball, Pa. which she simply abandoned when she moved to a new household closer to where  the buffalo roam in Narvon.  She even had a twelve foot Eucalyptus on the top of the hillside here in the Mid-Atlantic states, and I bet you are most familiar with those.  As long as the Blue Ball herbalist kept her rosemary shrubs close to east wall of her shop where the ground heat was sufficient along with the sun in year round, the rosemary survived quite well outside as we had a usual 10 degrees above F. which is still within close range of your Centigrade.

I usually had wind off the Chesapeake but some tampered with soil conditions; so, new plants went into ever increasingly larger potted-up specimens.

I once attempted the transplant to more appropriate sea atmosphere conditions at the Jersey Shore when an Italian friend bought a home there, and I brought her a selection of herbs for her old colonial back yard and the cedar-shake house. But she is more into stone than growing things, and I in fact have to send her a bon voyage on her trip back to Italy any minute. She usually spends time at Carrara, sculpting.

The sand there in the soil make-up, predominantly sand, at the Jersey Shore is excellent for most Italian crops. I grew three varieties of radicchio,  throughout seasons to turn the color; as well as fava beans; the usual tomato and eggplant varieties, some peppers; asparagus thrives there.

As a result, I cook with rosemary as Mediterraneans do, lavishly. I just cook with less beef or lamb than I once did. But I am sure that even Lidia Bastianich has a recipe for Maiale with rosemary. Anything that can take Juniper berries can surely handle rosemary!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on July 30, 2007, 01:32:49 PM
Maddie,

You have given me a good idea. We have a place on the Chesapeake Bay (near the New Point Comfort lighthouse), and, since the pines died and had to be cut down by the power company, all that is in the raised bed are some bayberry bushes, half of which look dead to hubby who cannot see colors, but knows dead when he sees it! and some flags my sister-in-law put in years ago which come back every year. Maybe next year I will try some rosemary in the bed. It is a raised bed, since in a bad winter storm, the bay comes over the dunes and floods the yard. Next door, the old man used to always grow some tomatoes in the yard and they did well, on the water side of his cabin.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on July 30, 2007, 02:27:12 PM
Weezo, nuehhh! Those tomatos like acid soil where the pines stood. The rosemary likes an alkaline, more lime in the soil.

It depends on how raised the bed is because if the roots of the Rosemary go down to where the flood tide  waters the raised bed from the bottom, you will get the acid intake. Give it a soil-test just to be sure of where the ph stands there, because I imagine you are amending soil in the raised bed anyway.

When I had to pick up those plants that I wanted to move five years ago,  at first I potted them and then sunk them into the squares where I'd grown a vegetable and salad garden with  herb borders( after observing these at the Philadelphia Spring Show)-- I'd dig the bed lower for salad, to reach the ground water because of about a five year drought, and I wanted about a half day of indirect sunlight from the shade trees. I was even able to grow an eggplant border to the driveway on only half days of direct sun (although actually, the sun came around to bring back the kind of sun that gives you a thorough tan in the late afternoon when it is at a slanted azimuth until sundown).

I covered the sunken pots with river stone sold by the bucket at the Ace Hardware stores which kept them just fine through the preparation for the move while I was busy  packing house for one svedlt move.

However upon arrival with more familiarity with the soil, I decided against putting them directly in the ground until I discerned what was happening. Sure enough, the contract maintenance of landcape, in a mixed ownership/rental complex  like the kind that was begun by companies at Paoli and Malvern on the Main line, uses chemicals to make their job easier. I decided that was a non-edible area of sunshine until further notice, in which I would concentrate on creating contrasting textures to look at. I see gardening as like sculpting. That dawned on me the first time that I had produced a kitchen garden. I had already had a wild application of sulphur from the old devil where I had lived on the farm on the Chester county line (south of Reading by a long shot, north of  Kennett Square by a shorter distance since 30 minutes out the back door took me to Longwood by a back route right to the back entrance to the green houses. ) I really believe that complexes of this kind buy up products no longer permitted for public commercial sale that are still a deal for Republican private business exchanges. We still had a "moderate Republican at EPA when I phoned them about the Diesal fuel dousing on "Private property" in farmland.

The following year, I learned that a Mennonite family who had made a fortune in the grocery business sponsored a recreational program in which community gardens were operated, ostensibly according to the program originally operated the Federal Dept. of Agriculture that I strongly believed an essentially good idea. It wasn't out here. After deciding to sign up for a double garden plot where I grew excellent shallots and Girasol, and green and yellow beans, and fair selection of Italian varieties of tomatoes, by June, I learned that the new Rosemary plants bought to start over at this situation were too close in contact to the next plot over, which was being treated to herbicide by a renter who did not want to bother weeding. I consulted a chemist at the Laboratories on Geist Road about what I could expect in water migration with the upcoming rain, lifted the rosemary plants and took them home,because other than that you have no recourse if the sponsor does not care to abide by the original plan of the Ag.Dept. 

I keep my own weeds under wraps with straw or hay depending on the season whether it is seed time or just maintenance..  With pine needles, usually in forested regions you  have that inherent mulch for strawberry beds but I don't know how that works in coastal areas.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 01, 2007, 08:44:16 AM
weezo: "It dies off in any drought." ...rosemary dieing for lack of water?. What is the world comingo to? What's next rice pady olive trees?.....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 01, 2007, 08:46:08 AM
madupont: You have a very weird rosemary in those USA of Yours.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 01, 2007, 09:19:31 AM
Port,

It is entirely possible that the rosemary grown here has evolved from the original Mediterranean plant. The two times it died for lack of water, it was planted in a planter that I forgot to water regularly. I'd seen it growing beautifully in a brick wall in Petersburg (VA) through a drought summer, and was told by the woman who tended it that it had needed no watering. Perhaps the planter in the brick wall is deeper than the planter I had it in and I had stunted the roots by putting it in the planter. It is doing just great in the herb bed this summer.

Oh, the horseradish did the trick on the roast beef sandwich! I've put the rest of the roast in the freezer in small serving sized packages. When I take it out, I think I till put it in a horseradish gravy to serve it over toast. Hubby is not going to like the too-much rosemary, since it gives it a scent of spoiled meat.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 01, 2007, 01:19:42 PM
Weezo,

It was the brick that kept the moisture for the roots in the wall. Like the stones that I recommended when using a raised bed which might dry out too quickly.

I used a  property dividing low brick wall at Hopewell to keep the moisture on the jointed horsetail scrubbing plant which I first found on the Lake Michigan shores north toward Manitowoc but closer to Sheboygan. I have forgotten the Latin designation but it what the Native Americans used for scrubbing.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 01, 2007, 02:05:57 PM
weezo, 

It was Equisetum


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on August 01, 2007, 05:42:46 PM
Cinnamon Toast

This is an old recipe for cinnamon toast, which my grandmother brought over from the old country (Peoria):


Were you looking for a way to participate Barton?

Elegant in its simplicity. 

I think I have a similar one for a grilled cheese sandwich.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 01, 2007, 05:52:39 PM
madupont:

"It was Equisetum"

There could be children reading this forum, you should be more carefull with the words you use.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 01, 2007, 06:04:37 PM
I kind of felt the same way when martin said, "I don't know what the 'alvolar' is?"    (in regard to that Chekov production in Argentina)
But that took me off to another tangent. And he's reading.

While he is, would you be interested in this, since you were not yet arrived at Elba  when I posted in Meander to teddy.  http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/04/070604fa_fact_grass



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 02, 2007, 09:54:52 AM
Trojan Horse,

when your belly isn't rumbling with restless spear-bearing Hellenics, there's nothing like grilled cheese.  But if you're not making it with an old flat iron, you're doing it the hard way.



SEE?  Guys can talk authoritatively on cooking, too!

Have I told you all about my hardboiled eggs?



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 02, 2007, 10:31:46 AM
SEE?  Guys can talk authoritatively on cooking, too!

Have I told you all about my hardboiled eggs?

Who said they couldn't?  Hell, the hubby's an awesome cook --  miuch better than I am.  In fact, my mother recently asked for his pot roast recipe because she liked it so much.  She never asks for my recipes....(sniff, sniff)

So besides toast and HB eggs, what else do you make?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 02, 2007, 11:53:52 AM
Bart,

I, too, am married to a good cook. Hubby makes almost everything better than I do. With the exception of macaroni salad. He invented a good potato salad a few years ago. Cooked and cut potatoes, with cut-up dill pickles, a few leaves of fresh dill, and mayonnaise as dressing. The pickles need to be well drained or they will make the dressing go liquidy if it sets around. Best to be eaten as soon as made.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 02, 2007, 12:27:36 PM
Harrie,

vegetarian chili

curried chicken and rice



(that's about it --- the secret of curry is.....

.....use LOTS of it)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 02, 2007, 02:30:29 PM
Maddy, I saw a PBS program last night calledTo Market to Buy a Fat Pig.  All about farmer's markets hither and yon in the U.S.  The one at Lancaster, PA was featured.  It is a humongous brick building.  Ever been to it?  No more than 1000 words, please.  ;)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 02, 2007, 06:28:27 PM
Where in Lancaster would this be?  (it's a big place though small)

I would have sworn that I was watching -- Damages-- last night, so got nowhere near PBS. Then off to bed.

Reread. I thought you were referring to somewhere they had pigs in a big brick building! You mean the famous market, or at least they think it is, on the Square in Lancaster City, Lancaster County.  I stay out of that city as much as possible. It looks old and charming but it is a dreadful place.

Unless you are talking of where they sell pigs?  Livestock of all kinds is sold at New Holland. You seldom see women attending. Don't know if it is a big brick bldg?

Women are much more interesting in household auctions as the last thing to go before land is sold off. I am renowned for saying among the Amish, when it comes right down to it we all have the same things at home to keep householding.

The Lancaster Market is exactly like the Terminal Mkt. in Philadelphia but without the amount of city dirt and traffic. In Lancaster city, it exists for the city people, those who live in the city or work in offices. Otherwise, we have better sources  throughout the county.  Although my Amish friends will talk about having to go to market in Lancaster when they were young.  You see it goes two ways, the Amish bring to market, the "English" take away.  Am I under a thousand yet?

My friend Sadie says, she remembers going to the city by bus (I never thought to ask her if they had they had the Red Rose buslines back that long ago, instead of going in by wagon?) to sell potatoes door to door, and she recalls how snotty the other "auslander" children treated her when they opened the door and saw her standing there. Lancaster is the worst place for prejudice, notably against the Amish, that I have ever seen in my life.  Secret: the majority of people know they are descended from them or Mennonites and they don't want "others" to think that they are from such poor origins by which they really mean "dirty" compared to themselves. The secret is that the Anabaptists gemeine whether Old  Order Amish(Ordnung) or new order are "earthy German farmers" and most largely the only honest people in the state (outside of Weezo's Penn.Dutch relatives of course.  Mine just skipped all that and went direct to what Glenn Close called "Heaven" when Christopher Walken first showed her the summer prairies. Nowadays, locally, this is the only time of year that resembles my childhood.)  1000?



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 02, 2007, 06:46:12 PM
Maddie,

Thanks for excluding my relatives from your diatribe on the Pennsylvania Dutch. My relatives are nothing if not colorful. Mom said that during the twenties, some were socialists and communists. By the fifties, when I was growing up, it wasn't bragged on anymore.

I'm not sure if I've ever been to the farmer's market in Lancaster. I certainly don't remember going in a brick building, although the old farmer's market in Richmond was in a brick structure. Every week we went to a green-grocer on 5th Street (it's not there anymore), who carried the local produce displayed in large bushel baskets in the front of the store and inside. I don't know if he did meats there - I think only produce. What I remember most was the 5lb tins of Groff's Potato Chips that were bought, and the watermelons, that were plugged, for Daddy to taste, to choose one that was ripe and sweet. I often wondered what happened to the watermelons that were plugged and discarded. Perhaps they were sold cheap for pickling.

That store also carried schnitz (dried apple slices) in quart mason jars. They were not sulphered, so they were brown instead of the white of current dried apples. In the fall, schnitz was bought to go along with a nice big country ham, and made into that delectable dish: Schnitz and Knept - Apples and Buttons. or, in plain English, Apples and dumplings in ham broth.

I'm sure Mom used a country ham for things like schnitz and knept, and other pot dishes, but when it came to ham for a holiday, she bought a canned ham from the grocery store. On Thanksgiving, she slaved over a traditional meal. New Years was a leftover holiday. But on Christmas, it was a canned ham, since that was the very special holiday in our family, and Mom wasn't going to be in the kitchen when the real excitement was around the tree! She started making Christmas cookies after thanksgiving, putting them into the saved cans from the potato chips (which were otherwise returned for a cash refund. But between Thanksgiving and Christmas, no cans were returned until they had served to store up Christmas cookies until they were eaten, usually by Valentine's day). To my parents, Christmas was the day to celebrate the gift of children - there were six of us - and in most years, the floor of the living room in front of the tree was amass with gifts that had been made or collected all through the year. There were gifts from the sewing machine, gifts from the woodshop in the basement, and gifts from the Sears catalog. On Christmas day, we knew we were a loved family.

But, I got off the subject of food.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 02, 2007, 07:40:56 PM
That's all right, we called the Sears catalog and the Monkey-Ward,
"the Wish Book" with which we entertained ourselves on rainy days, by sitting at the long table in the winter-kitchen which was usually used for grandmothers weekly or twice weekly bread baking as a long place to line up the bread tins, or as part of the thrashing noon-day dinner served inside, since farmers worked as a community sharing equipment at that time and went to each other's home to harvest the silage crop and the hay. There were two kitchens with long tables and some set out beneath the front trees that shaded the front porch. The only shade for miles,except for the deep forest or up in the orchard beyond the tractor shed and garage where my uncles usually wallopped each other about who would have this farm, that's what it was really about.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 02, 2007, 07:53:45 PM
Ps. I still buy the tins, now they are decorated in floral and scenic patterns, and first became aware of them when the Amish brought them to market in Flemington, New Jersey.(where I also bought the large glass jars for a quarter a piece, until I came here and found they were in every country supermarket where farm families buy bulk size pantry stored canned vegetables, fruits, sauces, soups, whatever. These are used to keep dry things in the kitchen.)

The decorated tins are bought by tourists who come to the Bird in Hand Bakery and get them for presents to give to people after their vacation. Usually filled with potatoe chips or pop corn. Personally, I try for empty but will buy kettle corn, as I use this to keep various kinds of flour.

In my grandmother's day, her pantry was the size of a closet with shelves, because she had a white-washed cellar and they went up to the mill in the village to bring down their portion of the flour as they needed it. My cousins would then make up dresses from the washed flour sacks that had a pattern on the inside during the WW2 years. Smart girls both married doctors like my mother did. But they went into nursing too, where the doctors are. Not a one of my female cousins married a farmer.Some of the nieces in all probability, daughters of farmers, did. I wonder about my niece Phaedre, who has my mothers features but being blonde looks more like Meryl Streep. She was the daughter of my favorite uncle who plowed behind a horse and married a girl named Barbara because of course she had auburn red hair like his mother.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 02, 2007, 09:05:14 PM
Maddie,

The tins that held Groff's potato chips were not decorated. That is a completely different art form. I think I have a book around here somewhere on painting tin-ware, dutch style. The Groff's tins just had the brand name on them. They were dark blue and yellow. I do have a tin, not painted, but printed with Pennsylvania themes, that came full of pretzels. I just emptied the assorted tools, nails, screws and miscellany out of it, and put it in the dishwasher. Not sure what will go in it next, but I'm sure it will come to me in a bit. They were not the Bachman pretzels of Mount Penn, but from the prezelry in Shillington, which name excapes me at the moment.

Here, in Virginia, the Christmas-decorated tins usually contain fruit-cake. But the best fruit-cake is made by a company that eschews the tins, and sells on stands in shopping centers. I also have my mother-in-laws recipe for good southern fruitcake, which takes 3 lbs of candied fruit, and has to be mixed in a restaurant sized bowl which I use just for that. It makes a lot of cakes, that are baked in small loaf pans (she had tin ones, I use the disposable aluminum ones). After baking, the cakes are wrapped in clean white muslin and set in a container on a rack. The wine (Manischevits) is poured overall, and they are covered and kept in a dark place for a month before eating. Jean used an earthenware crock, but I use a canning cooker. The fruit used to come from a 5 & 10 in Richmond. They went out of business about 15 years ago, and I haven't found a good source of the fruit in bulk since.

Why is it that now in August, when the nighttime temp doesn't drop below 70 degrees, am I thinking about Christmas cooking?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 03, 2007, 08:09:15 AM
weezo:

"There were gifts from the sewing machine, gifts from the woodshop in the basement, and gifts from the Sears catalog. On Christmas day, we knew we were a loved family."



...it seems to me you and maddy inhabited a Norman Rockwell postcard?......when was that? around what years?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 03, 2007, 08:18:49 AM
Port,

Hindsight is the best sight, and recollections of a happy childhood are not overshadowed with the cruel edges of reality that crept in. My childhood was during the fifties. I think Maddie's POV is an earlier decade. As I talk with others who grew up in those times, the hard edges are there, but in the fifties, as a nation, we enjoyed more optimism, and, in my way of thinking, children were more treasured and in a deeper way than is now the norm.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 03, 2007, 11:00:35 AM
Maddy, the thing about pigs was the name of the program about farmer's markets.  ONE of the markets visited was the on in Lancaster.  It is a brick edifice.  Started in the late 1700s.  I just wanted to know if you'd ever been there.  They showed famer's markets for all over the U.S.  The one in Atlanta is interesting, also.  But don't ask me now, why, just as in a few more days I won't remember much at all about the program I watched. :(


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 03, 2007, 01:55:42 PM
el portenito

Reproductions of Norman Rockwell paintings having to do with kids going to the doctor, etc.(sent from the advertisers of medications in medical journals) were framed on the walls of my father's new office in the early 1940s; by which time, we had moved out of the three room apartment with two room doctor's office across the hall, above the bakery of an Austrian immigrant where we had lived in the 1930s. Both of my parents came from farms of very different sorts; the only coincidence being that two of my great-grandfathers were both interested in livestock but, they never even knew each other,one was a Prussian who drove cattle from Kansas to get them across the Mississippi, not an easy task while the other was a Scotsman who brought in Morgans and Shelties, and Clydesdales and what have you to the Midwest through the St.Lawrence seaway and the Erie Canal and drove his beef to the stock-markets in Chicago with his youngest daughter next to him riding on the buckboard because he thought she deserved to see the big city(she was such a good student).

He was to rue the day that he had begun doing that when she became the Rock River's first runaway teenager (I was apparently, the second, since the two of us got on splendidly comparing notes. Her stories were of course much more interesting than mine as she knew ever so many more important people of her era; I suspect, she had ascertained that "big cities" are ever so much more interesting than staying down on the farm. She talked that way, like Billie Burke-- an early film star.) One day she turned to me and said,"We are the last, you know...of women who are romantics."  That was a stunning thought at the time; yet, every day as I fire up the computer, I am greeted with a page that demonstrates there are just as many here today who will discover romance for themselves  is more like the pages of  a Dawn Powell novel.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 03, 2007, 08:07:18 PM
Pontalba,

I am going to throw in, over here --another version from 1955 when the Culinary Arts Institute was completely in the hands of women and, in Chicago, no less. This is their,"The Creole Cookbook" sold at the A & P

Southern Batter Bread

Thoroughly grease a 1 and 1/2 qt. casserole. Heat in oven about 5 minutes before pouring in batter.

Mix together in a saucepan: 1/2 c.corn meal
                                       3/4 teaspoon salt
                                        1 cup cold water

Bring rapidly to boiling. Boil 5 min. (Mixture will be very thick.) Remove from heat. Stirring constantly, thoroughly blend in:
                                                                       1/2 c.milk
                                                                          1 T. lard,melted
Beat until thick and piled softly:  2 eggs

Gradually add corn meal mixture to eggs, beating vigorously. Turn into hot casserole.

Bake at 400 degrees F. 45 to 50 min.,or until a wooden pick or cake tester comes out clean when inserted gently at center.

Serve immediately with butter or margarine and maple syrup, honey or
MOLASSES!

(My father would have had his with sorghum, please)     4 servings

Maybe some other variations, later.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 03, 2007, 08:28:37 PM
Yes, I found it. This is from Hagley, on the Brandywine

SOUTHERN SPOON BREAD

1/2 yellow corn meal           1/2 t. soda
1 c. boiling water                1 cup buttermilk
3/4 t. salt                           1 and 1/2 T. melted shortening
1 and 1/2 T.sugar
1 egg

Pour boiling water over corn meal,let stand to cool. Add sugar,salt,beaten egg;dissolve baking sode in buttermilk and add to cornmeal, then add melted shortening. Mix thoroughly. Pour into greased deep pan and bake in hot oven (400 degrees) for about 25 minutes.
Serve from baking dish.

This is served in place of potatoes

I should add that since many of the spoon bread recipes resemble the cooking of polenta, which is actually cooked longer, plain, without extraneously ingredients, and is not baked, the reason for why the above was served in place of potatoes was simple. Both polenta and spoon bread casserole are very good as the base for fried pork chops  whose drippings are made into dark brown gravy in the case of polenta; with spoon bread you likewise opt for the lighter golden color but richer gravy to which either cream has been added or most often that canned evaporated milk so often used where there is no refrigeration. Try as I might to recall, in my mind's-eye, I cannot clearly see a refrigerator in the kitchen area when I lived in the Vieux Carre, New Orleans. But, then, I walked to the French Market every morning to do my shopping for the day.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 04, 2007, 07:07:20 AM
weezo and madupont:

"Hindsight is the best sight, and recollections of a happy childhood are not overshadowed with the cruel edges of reality that crept in. My childhood was during the fifties"

Yes, the fifties were a time of optimism, even in my native Argentina, You had "less" things in the USA in those days, life was simpler (I imagine) things were still done by hand, Popular Mechanics made sence then, the garage workshop and hobbies, soap box cars, etc. I had an incomplete glance of those USA vicariously through tv shows like Denys the Menace or Father Knows Best. NOt exactly reality, but we Argentines learn to read between the lines at a tender age, and so can separate the chaff from the grain. Even Woddy Allen in Radio Days conferes a bit of that America now gone forever.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 04, 2007, 09:43:15 AM
el portenito

I never got that aspect of it, unless you mean the boy in the basement next-door who had battle plans of toy soldiers  in formation on an old ping-pong table and had obviously been collecting since earliest and he was now in high-school.  My last word on that, his mother could not cook properly, in any way similar to my mother's cooking ability.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 06, 2007, 12:44:11 PM
i ribbed down some lamb shanks with some spicy thai and moroccan spices. then let them soak in the liquid from the sour pickle jar.  after browning with some carrots, onions, sliced potato and garlic, i poured the spicy pickle liquid over the shanks and braised.  added some chicken broth to desalinate the liquid about half way through.  the result was beyond belief, like a szechuan braised lamb shank, and the cooked liquid was miraculously exhilirating, like szechuan spicy lamb broth.  did i invent something new, or is this something people have done already?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 06, 2007, 02:13:55 PM
nO, YOU ARE A CREATIVE COOK.

Did you use harisa, when you say Moroccan spices?

Here's another tip for next time you have pickle juice left in the jar(s)particularly the dill pickle variety.  Slice onions very thin and let them sit in the jar of juice overnight.  Then make potato salad from boiled "baking potatoes"(because of their mealy texture), cool,skin, and slice, then pour over the pickle juiced onions, or squeeze out the onions, which ever way you prefer. Add half and half nonfat or lowfat sourcream and  ditto on the mayo to the potatoes and onions. Decorate with fresh dill, and why not slice or quarter and then slice in some small fresh cucumbers.

It's a kind of Russian potato salad but I think somebody called this Chuckwagon potato salad(although where they kept the sourcream and mayo on the chuckwagon keeps me guessing)--but, it does become that if you decide that after the onions have marinated in the pickle juice --you might like to put them into some barbecue sauce you have sitting around in the refrigerator, then I can see the name. I often have those from near empty bottles, from trying out brands that don't go where I want them to in a particular dish such as you invented. I then  opt back and make my own barbecue sauce.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 06, 2007, 02:17:51 PM
oh, I bet you use the thai red curry paste that I use to dot the eggplant salad (or dip) that I like Szechuan style when I grow eggplants in the summer(the long Japanese or Chinese variety).


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 06, 2007, 02:28:26 PM
the thai paste was not curry--though i added curry power while browning.  it was a garlic and hot pepper paste.  the morraccan thing was a salad i bought in the kosher refigerated section, and it was a spicy mix of tomato and peppers.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 06, 2007, 03:00:46 PM
Do I have some recipes for you!  On second thought, kibbeh as made a dozen years ago, seems too complicated to bother with today but the interesting traditions of North African and Middle Eastern Jews in the past are still edible which is perhaps why the Moroccan salad.

Thai red curry paste is the same thing as garlic and hot pepper paste. The East Asian eggplant dish is very much like the traditional dish in the Middle East which you eat with pita or pita chips,etc.

I lost my one and only local Jewish deli within the last year or so, which means, if I get a hankering for one thing or another,I fall back on doing it myself the old fashioned way.  You know the old saying," We had the best Kosher cooking back in my home town...." Hungarian version actually.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 06, 2007, 03:30:45 PM
they're disappearing in manhattan, but there are TWO EXCELLENT traditional kosher delis in my town, manalapan, nj.  the pea, musroom-barley and vegetable soups at jesse and david's, just a moment from my home, are to die for.  pastrami queen, which is damn good, and has the best seeded rye ever, is on lex near 79th, just around the corner from our NY pied a terre.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 07, 2007, 12:24:08 PM
weezo, harrie just brought over a neat link from the Wall Street Journal with just about everything encyclopediacally accounted for in food shopping and preparation. 

You had asked me earlier about the temperature for searing meat in grape-seed oil and grape-seed oil was the first link that I turned to and which should give you all the details you need about how it affects cholesterol and how to use it with meat protein searing or braising,etc.

http://www.drgourmet.com/ingredients/grapeseedoil.shtml

Be back later, I had a summer recipe to type out, prep-tested just last night since I had not prepared it for several years.

It has to do with this being the height of peach season.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 07, 2007, 12:41:46 PM
Maddie,

Thanks for the item on grapeseed oil. I will probably try it sometime soon since I now know where I can buy it. It is at walmart, but in the vitamin section, both a pills and in liquid form. When I saw it, my shopping trip was for toys for the children, so I didn't get a bottle. Will get some on another visit.

I'm suspicious of the claims that healthy fats reduce the chance of Alzheimers. My mother always used margarine instead of lard, and after my father died, the doc said her cholesteral was too high, and she reduced her fat intake drastically. She still ended up with dementia, which is close enough to Alzheimers and bad enough to want to avoid going out of this world that way. It makes me leary of some of the other claims in the article.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 08, 2007, 02:10:16 PM
It won't reduce Alzheimer's per se. It is for reducing cholesterol; by increasing the healthier component while lowering the detrimental form of clogging the arteries.  Alzheimer's which not everyone agrees with me (but) was once called Senile dementia when I worked on the wards. I think that my father wanted me to know before  hand all the horrible things that can afflict human beings that they least suspect are sometime part of the process and sometimes not, and therefore which are avoidable with any luck; as he referred to it as "Natural Law". With his background, I think that translates as the wages of sin are death by one of the other of the ten commandments broken or, perhaps five from column A and five from column B ?

This, believe it or not, has to do with smoking and quitting smoking. The narrowing of arteries because of cholesterol is what leads to stroke.

There is a doctor down here somewhere, named Goss or Goff, who writes for the Intelligencer, who once mentioned (and I've lost the clipping, which is why I cannot recall his name correctly) that there is every suspicion, but it seems at this point quite true, that something was worked out over the centuries among the inhabitants of Scotland who exist ruggedly in a cold climate, whereby their cholesterol registers off the charts(and as you know this is a state populated very much by the forward advance guard of the renamed Scots-Irish, despite all the other group of immigrants, they were among the early colonials, which is why one little lady wrote in to him). So they need to do more comparisons between those who migrated here and have since adapted and those who remain behind in Scotland with a more modern diet than just the smoked and salted fish and the collops of minced meat, in a climate once lacking the variety of vegetables that we take for granted but having plenteous game and, dare I say it?,"nettles" and seaweed, etc.  Although they started the winter day with oatmeal porridge and used oat flour to coat the fried beef collops,etc. and oatmeal is known for helping lower cholesterol, I found that I put on a lot of weight in Princeton for instance from learning the Scot cuisine.

So life consists of more than oatmeal and Gooseberry Fool.  The suspicion however is that the high cholesterol registered by some persons of Scot's descent is a mystery unresolved, they don't die of it if they mind their manners and abjure alcohol --which as you may have guessed seems difficult but my great-aunt having seen one too many kinsman named Rob Roy not be able to get up out of gutter decided not to risk marrying one of those and she lived just three years short of 100.

However does this explain why Russians do not likewise register high cholesterol with some tomatoes, onions, beets, cabbages,cucumbers, potatoes, and vodka?

So how much does genetics have to do with our living with higher or lower cholesterol levels? As I say, I looked into oils with salad in mind, because my mother would eat that regularly although she liked fein schmecken quite as much as anybody, since she felt that heart disease inevitably caught up with people in her family, that or deafness, although I noted other things too.  However, when she lived to age 84, we had worked our way through all the latest oils from Loriva( produced and bottled out in California ) before Grapeseed oil made an appearance on the scene.  Would you believe that while she was in the hospital where surgeons suggested a pace-maker, which she refused as a surgeon's widow, the food from the hospital commissary served patients hamburgers? Well, I find hospitals in present locale are equally non-discriminating about food.

So it is some of both, grapeseed oil will not allow you to eat everything without change of habits but it is part of the habit change overall.  It depends I think whether your local store is selling what size and for how much, (for instance, I had not heard that they were putting up capsules of it) so be sure they are not labeling it as a cosmetic oil because there are several cosmetic houses doing grapeseed oil lines, the French like to brag about their laboratories. You can get cooking oil in tins of about a pint and 9oz. for under $5  but it was lower than that and I think that it will drop back again. Which comes out to over three weeks but short of four weeks of use for frying at 2 tablespoons  per day vs choice to use on salads for two people.  Now I have to investigate catalogs and on-line to find what brands are available regionally because  it is locally quite difficult to obtain things that supermarkets suggest customers "don't buy enough of to make worthwhile" which I believe is the major bugaboo. Customers request but, the line is that, "the distributors don't have that product".


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 08, 2007, 07:29:13 PM
speaking of healthy oils...

An article in the recent Atlantic was about the sardine --- apparently has the good oils, like omega-3's, and is lower on the food chain and has a shorter lifespan than, say, tuna, so tends to retain fewer toxins and heavy metals in its tissue.  The U.S. center for sardine fishing and canning was originally Cannery Row in Monterrey, CA, made famous in Steinbeck's novel.

Debra Winger and sardines...the perfect evening. Perhaps there lies the recipe I was earlier in search of?

 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 09, 2007, 08:47:30 AM
There's nothing Youse can do about that bastard, Al Zaymers.  Eat, drink, fornicate and be merry, for tomorrow  never know.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 09, 2007, 10:08:32 AM
Not to change the subject of grilling, but I thought I'd pass along a little something they serve in the government cafeteria that is a really nice side dish and something different too.  Bacon, cheese, and tomato grits.  Lots of fresh tomato cut into bite-sized pieces mixed in with a just a little bacon and cheddar cheese stirred into the hot grits.  Yum!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 09, 2007, 11:20:57 AM
Grits are unreasonably delicious.  I once spent a week with a friend with his family down in Gulfport, Miss. and we had grits every morning, of some kind.  I wept when we had to head back north.  The grits almost made up for the melt-your-brain weather.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 09, 2007, 11:23:18 AM
barton re:#371

Every now and then I go on a sardine kick, usually winter for the vitamin D, combined with a side helping of pickled beets perhaps, which contain nucleic acid, a no-brainer brain food we learned about back in the early 1970s. I'm pondering now whether sardines had nucleic acid but in a month or so, perhaps a little longer, when the autumn becomes more cool, I opt for Dutch salad in which everything goes, if you ever saw Scarlett Johansson do this trick, in the film: The Girl with the Pearl Earring.  

Everything goes, vegetables added to the potatoes, there may even be apples with the beets, when not sardines, then  herring,etc.  I remind myself to buy rye crackers of various thickness. Although there is a husky rye bread with plenteous caraway that Panera eventually came up with and I require when the smorgebrod season comes over the horizon.

For now, still in the fresh mozzarella sliced with tomatoes alternating on the platter, with Genovese basil tucked in between and a grind of black pepper.

Last night, I improvised on a sandwich apparently invented by S. Clyde Weaver, so where a Mennonite came up with a Greek sandwich is unknown as yet. The bread is the tricky part because if the crust is French or Italian, you will slip and slide the layers when you cut the sandwich on the diagonal to be able to eat it . His employees list it as a Ciabatta bread for the sandwich and that's about the best weight for this heavy sandwich which can do with a "Pressing".

 I go out and break off sprigs of the Genovese basil to start with, it is possible to do this well in advance by days to make the pesto, pretending that you weren't even thinking of a sandwich.  But if you are putting it to freeze to keep it on hand, do not immediately add the pine nuts or parmesan cheese; rather better to keep these for adding just before using pesto.

Last night, I left out the parmesan in any case because part of the sandwich involves either feta cheese, or one of those small logs of French goat cheese that I was going to suggest to you as another way to put protein in your diet.  I do this merely to keep the great new preserved small sweet red peppers in place; I always forget whether they are referred to as Paw-paw peppers or are they Papadew peppers? In any case picking up the Panera take out sandwich means you may find when you open the wrapping that they did not put in the required ingredients,thinking you would never notice because of all the red onions.

I say forget the red onions and go to S.Clyde Weaver or where ever you can by those sweet red peppers cold in the deli counter.

Back to the pesto: you have to have a fairly large amount of basil to throw it in the blender, perhaps a food processor does a better job? It seems that larger amount processes into pesto more easily with a little olive oil in a ratio of 1/8th. the amount of oil to washed and paper-towel dried basil leaves. I use a larger amount than that ratio for the pine nuts thrown in so that they break down into pieces; and I sprinkle a little garlic powder (since this is a sandwich) rather than the amounts of garlic --sometimes as much as 4 whole fresh large cloves chopped coarsely when you plan on adding a half cup of pesto to pasta at this time of year.  Less than a teaspoon of salt, goes in and perhaps a few squeezes from half a lemon to zip it up.

We are merely on the first part, or bottom spread for the lower slice of the ciabatta bread smeared with pesto.   So I will start another post to continue the assembly of the Vegetarian Greek Sandwich.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: kitinkaboodle on August 09, 2007, 11:29:18 AM
Ms. dupont--

Do you perchance offer a delivery service?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 09, 2007, 11:53:59 AM
barton, I forgot to mention that I take my omega 3 in my eggs from the supermarket; that includes Lutein.

Back to the sandwich: Part two

What goes on the other top layer of bread's cut-side as the contrasting "schmear"?  

Tapenade:  Wiser to buy pitted Black Olives and chop them up but it depends on the flavor you want. Last night, I had some of those tiny Nicoise olives from France, so I meticulously pared the olive from the pits. When I used to make tapenade, I might flavor it with a dash of brandy but I forgot that last night and didn't even add capers(which you would want if you were making a seafood sandwich or "tapas"/"meze",etc.) nor garlic. Just a tiny amount of olive oil.

Now you put the sandwich together,put a few dried tomatoes softened with a little olive oil and lay them over the pesto on the bottom slice of bread.

Either that feta or that log of Montrachet goat cheese which can be sliced to top the tomato and gives some support to the next stack in which ever order seems wise to you of thinly sliced cucumber and those sweet preserved little red peppers from the deli. They have a lettuce leaf or two to cover them and hold them in place when you put the lid of top bread in that you previously spread with tapenade.  If it is just too godawefull to contemplate, those longish, not too long!, bamboo sticks for threading shashlik or usually meat and vegetables for grilling, come in handy as a long tooth-pick or two to hold your sandwich together for the diagonal cutting.  Diagonal, why? because it gives you a point to start getting the sandwich into your mouth!

For awhile, on first attempts to master this creation of the Vegetarian Greek Ciabatta, you may find yourself using a fork or your fingers to retrieve everything on a paper plate; but the flavor is worth it.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 09, 2007, 12:01:38 PM
Ms. dupont--

Do you perchance offer a delivery service?


Unfortunately, alas, no. I haven't broken through the computer barrier as yet. As with my typewriter, formerly, I keep it handy to the kitchen but I'm working with much less space than on the farm where the kitchen allows you to walk around your  production.  When they have a break through in computer design that delivers the goods at lunch hour, civilization at last.

They do this quite well where Indians do office work in the US as in India; and the US delivery system of home cooking brought to the office by the lunch wallah  has come intact from India.  I've seen it on line, in the midst of my explorations. All vegetarian lunches. Done by Indian ladies at home; delivered by bike promptly at the same time every day.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 09, 2007, 12:16:16 PM
Grits are unreasonably delicious.  I once spent a week with a friend with his family down in Gulfport, Miss. and we had grits every morning, of some kind.  I wept when we had to head back north.  The grits almost made up for the melt-your-brain weather.



Alas, the only connection I know of for grits is bought in bulk of 50lbs, but you never know, they may have broken it down to a smaller packaging, which they ship Fedex.       

                                  Adams Foods Co., Inc.
                                   Route 6 Box 148-A
                                  Dothan,AL     36303
                                 Tele: 1-800-239-4233
                                   Fax (334)983-5596

The last price,five years ago was $55.66 plus 10% handling charge and what the shipping would be you'd have to ask. They accept Visa,American Express, Mastercard, Discover, Money Order or Personal Check.

I've eatten grits for breakfast on the south side of Chicago where the porters get off the trains and go home but stop for breakfast on the way home. They are good with fried eggs over easy. I think gravy might be nice as it is with polenta, for the non-vegetarians.

Will look around because I have some other purveyors of the odd item somewhere on this computer and will post what I locate.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 09, 2007, 12:54:09 PM
You don't mean to say you can't buy grits outside the South?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 09, 2007, 01:47:40 PM
I didn't mean grits were unobtainable up here in long underwear land.  My "wept" line was a bit of hyperbole to say that I would miss my Miss. host's artistry in cooking grits. 



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 09, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
No, no, Bart.  I was just thrown off by madupont's response about ordering huge sacks of it.

I'm afraid I'll have to mention that the gubment cafeteria has a breakfast special:  eggs, grits, bacon, and a biscuit for $2.65.  It took me awhile to stop eating it every day when I first started here - so bad for you yet so delicious.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 09, 2007, 02:46:26 PM
My local supermarket sells a one-pound box of Quaker Oats grits, and it's in the heart of Damn Yankee territory.   And how come I seem to be the only poster without a government cafeteria to frequent???


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 09, 2007, 02:57:56 PM
Desdemona, tomatoes and cheese?  Pul-eeze.  I like my grits with lotsa butter and some sugar.  Yea-us, with eggs, bacon and biscuits.  But also as dessert late at night. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 09, 2007, 03:00:38 PM
Last night the winner on Top Chef (Trey) served grits topped with bacon-wrapped shrimp....looked pretty tasty to me!

(Of course, it might have been the bacon....when did bacon become the food of the gods?)

$55 for ten pounds of grits is rip-off city when you can go down to your local chain supermarket and buy them off the shelf....even in the NE.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 09, 2007, 03:28:10 PM
Thanks to the gods for a sane world where grits are available to everyone who may want them.

donot - I'm telling you the grits and tomatoes w/cheese and bacon bits is fabulous.  Add black pepper and you're in heaven.  Try serving it up with dinner - a pork chop or something for a change of pace.

harrie -

Your cat is fabulous.  I have an orange and black tabby and they look like they could be related.

BTW, I'm the only one with the gubment cafeteria because I work at one of the federal buildings in Atlanta - it's generally not that great, but breakfast is nice and very southern.  They have 3 kinds of grits - the aforementioned tomato and cheese, plain, and cheese.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 09, 2007, 04:01:38 PM
harrie -

Your cat is fabulous.  I have an orange and black tabby and they look like they could be related.

Why, thank you!  Is yours evil too?   

Now that I think about it, we had a gubment cafeteria in Greenville, SC where we lived for a year (and where I worked in a Federal building).  So I'll stop the whining. 

And I do swear, it seems like gourmet/foodie types have discovered the world of hominy -- especially with a Top Chef sighting.  I'll bet grits will become the new fava bean puree and soon become the darling of upscale eateries. (unless they already have and I missed that boat....)





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 09, 2007, 04:17:38 PM
I'm more partial to the whole hominy than to the grits. You can buy instead grits in serving size packages as well as the Quaker boxes which are cheaper.

For a Saturday breakfast in late fall, cook half a pound of Jimmy Dean Sage Sausage until brown. Drain the hominy and add to the sausage in the skillet. Beat some eggs with a little milk and add. Stir until eggs are done and eat. Catsup is nice with this, or eat it plain. Oh, add some salt and pepper as you choose. We eat very little salt, so mostly put a good dash of pepper on it. The sage sausage is not spicey. You could use any other loose sausage if you choose.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 10, 2007, 12:36:50 AM
Crime-inently, I was positive I was perfectly clear that having grits in Chicago for breakfast would clarify that Chicago is not exactly the South. I used to go down there to the clubs when Donald Byrd or Lee Morgan were on the road in between coasts.

The post says the grits are a little over a dollar per pound bought in bulk at 50 lbs. I would imagine for restaurants of the kind where you eat grits.

Weezo is right. I found the same was true of polenta, served with one of those thick loin pork  chop  and various crumpled dry herbs from the garden to season the meat(not the polenta). The trick is to be able to improvise a gravy that become rich and semi-dark. Vegetables about now would be sliced zucchini.

One of the nicer thinks about growing your own is the smaller sizes you have for marinated ante-pasta.

Another possibility with barton's pesto is to serve it Roman style on top of gnocchi(Italian potato dumplings available vacuum-packed from the supermarket). Brig a pan of salted water to the boil, then add the gnocchi and wait until they float to the surface before drainind and adding the sauce. Add pecorino rather than parmesan cheese and some torn leaves of fresh basil.  I am also getting ready to bake some seasoned tomatoes with crumb topping now that they are so plentiful that they are easily sized to cook at the same rate of time.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 10, 2007, 12:43:06 AM
AND why pray tell, are you all you all frequenting gov't bldg.cafeterias, in this day and age; haven't you learned anythin yit?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 10, 2007, 09:18:16 AM
Well, the fact that they're serving up the tasty tomato, cheese and bacon grits sounds good enough for me....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 10, 2007, 09:57:49 AM
what the heck are "grits"?.....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 10, 2007, 11:20:20 AM
Ground-up pieces of corn, as far as this northerner knows.  You boil them and add some salt, margerine, and/or whatever else, and then they taste pretty good.

Harrie, that is just sad -- even I, who no longer work for the state government, can still find my way to the basement of the state office building and enjoy their fine cafeteria.  The food isn't much, but the cramped low-ceilinged windowless room full of plastic chairs and particleboard tables more than makes up for it.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 10, 2007, 11:27:34 AM
Grits are similar to polenta, but they are made a bit differently.  Polenta is usually yellow corn, grits are usually white.  Also, the corn for the grits is dried before grinding and the entire corn kernel is used, so grits are usually not as smooth as polenta...more fiber.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 10, 2007, 01:25:04 PM
oK,so let's move on before peach season goes round the bend. One chicken, in halves with a cleaver (there is method to my madness)and peaches,ripened, for however many people share this dinner.

Spices: ground cumin                      also: cinnamon,ground
                "     coriander                 and : either dark brown sugar or
                                                             demerara
                                                   
a lemon cut in half
(dare I say it: a teaspoon to a tablespoon of butter for each peach half, baked when the chicken is at least half finished oven-baking)   

Salt your chicken reticently on the rib-cage side of the turned over half. Coarse sea-salt is about right but develop a light touch.

The chicken should be moistened with some juice squeezed from the lemon directly over both sides of the chicken, while your oven is heating as you like it anywhere between 350 degrees Fahrenheit to 400 degrees F.  My oven tends to ramble and has to be watched closely.

Both the oven rack or roasting pan should be sprayed with some oil of your preference, or you can brush the pan(I go through those baking brushes quite fast)with the grapeseed oil discussed earlier. When it comes to the chicken itself we can seaon it further before putting your finger over the opening of the grapeseed oil  to sprinkle some --not too much but just enough to glisten the chicken.

Sprinkle the coriander and cumin,if you are using a shaker top jar, or have some in a small cup-sized bowl to pick up with your fingers to sprinkle gingerly on both sides of the chicken. If you want something hotter in addition to this: Old Bay Seasoning, from Maryland, is recommended for poultry as well as seafood. I also have something light from Urban Accents in Chicago, known as Cajun Street, toward the sweeter side of hot but mild which I hope is still in business at www.urbanaccents.com

Black pepper ground from the mill is just fine in addition because this is essentially a Southern dish at this point that can go in other directions when you are familiar with the basic idea. Proceed to bake in the oven, keeping an eye on when you want to turn it with tongs.

Before it is half way through, you cut the peaches in half and sprinkle with more of the lemon juice. In another of those cup-sized bowls blend your dark sugar of either kind with the amount  of cinnamon that you prefer. A fork is pretty good for stirring the cinnamon evenly into the sugar.

Begin baking the peaches on the same rack or in roasting pan with the chicken(unless you have a lot of the chicken juices to be drained off. In which case you can use a separate baking pan slightly oil or buttered so that the tender cut side of the peaches do not stick while you use half of your remaining baking time to begin the peaches face down).

Keep an eye on everything in that oven, and turn the peaches carefully when a fast finger tip tells you they are getting tender to the touch. At this point you fill the open-side halves with the  spices and sugar combo and add a pat of butter(non-salted butter is inexpensive).
[for non-cooking, I use Earth Balance, non-gmo,non-hydrogenated as a spread on fresh bread or on a hot vegetable that has finished cooking]                                                                 

Okay, at this point dinner is served and goes well with either fresh corn in season, the spoon-bread, or the grits, or Donotremove's corn-bread. In my younger years this was invariably accompanied by "Greens" but, they are better fresh in the Spring before the season is Hot, or in the Fall when it turns cool toward cold, served in their own ,what my father referred to as, "pot liquer".

This was also true of frenched Green beans served in browned butter,to which cream or  half-n-half was added and would "spit" back at'cha, if the pan was too hot, but then the sauce was strongly black peppered.

In the Mid-Atlantic heartland, the green beans are  "stippled" that is cut cross-ways but in fairly large pieces and added to potatoes while they are cooking, sometimes with "side-meat" sometimes not, and pepper is added at the end, either black above the line to Rising Sun. Beneath the line it begins to show a preference for additional red pepper seasoning

Back to greens. One that you have through the hot weather is Swiss Chard that now comes in multiple stem colors as well. In any case, whether cooked plain with side meat or cooked really plain, we usually add some vinegar in a small amount just before serving. Preferably apple cider vinegar.  The complete statistics are not yet in on this but it has been proven in China (and therefore has been watched for in the States)where food is often preserved by salting and smoking in the rural areas and also keeps vegetables preserved pickled with vinegar, that incidence of cancer rises because of that combination.  If you serve food prepared Southern style but can do so with Fresh Bacon that is stored in the freezer instead, you are better off for it.

The pot of potatoes and green beans is sometimes decorated with a slice or two of this kind of bacon fried up, drained off on a paper towel, and crumpled over the top when dished up as your serving. We also add, a small amount, not much of brown sugar, at the end with a dash of that apple cider vinegar and lots of fresh ground black pepper.
Yellow beans by the way are served when we reside in a cool enough  household to roast pork for Sunday or company or when Deedee Myers cooked for the tourists either at home or at the Washington Inn. They are tipped and served as whole yellow beans with butter and pepper as a side dish on the buffet with the mashed potatoes.


I just may have to cook up some stippled yellow beans to serve mit sauer raum; in a few hours, though. Because the season is passing.

   


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 10, 2007, 01:44:32 PM
Ps. when I said, sprinkle gingerly over the chicken, I think that I was trying to tell myself something.

A small amount of ground ginger added to the cumin and coriander powders would not be a bad idea(if you have to sift it through a small sieve,do so)

You will understand this flavoring hint better as I go into variations for this chicken in summer business which changes vitally according to cuisine.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 10, 2007, 02:09:31 PM
Grits are actually made from white hominy.  They are similar to cornmeal before cooking.  They're standard fare for breakfast in the South.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 10, 2007, 02:13:56 PM
Returning to hominy:

Those who have tried to explain how hominy is made omitted an important step, the soaking in lye for a few days, then rinsing the lye off. Here is a link to the real way to make hominy the old-fashioned way, and also a mention of the modern way, with soda: http://www.mtnlaurel.com/Recipes/hominy.htm

Grits are then made by drying the hominy and grinding it coursely.

Here's another hominy-for-breakfast recipe:

Cook up two slices of bacon for each person to be served. If you mic it, pour the grease into a skillet. Lay the well-cooked bacon on paper towels to drain, and slice up fresh apples, one per person plus one more for generous, and cook until they are almost done in the bacon grease. Then add a 1-2 cans (1 can per two people)  of hominy with the liquid, and let simmer until the liquid is all gone. Crumble the bacon and put on top of the apples and hominy. Serve hot with well-buttered biscuits.  



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 10, 2007, 02:34:00 PM
Weezo, I like my canned hominy buttered (with generous pepper) and completely reduced.  That's it.  Just eat and enjoy. I can sit down to a plateful along with some cornbread and just make a meal of it.  Course, I'm here to tell you that a kitchen smoked up with burnt hominy will not only set off the smoke alarms but ruin your smeller for 24 hours.  Watch that pot.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 10, 2007, 03:57:41 PM
There are two different types of grits, those made from white corn, and those made from white hominy.  The hominy is the type that is soaked in an alkali mixture. 

Although, I believe that deep Southerners don't make a distinction between the two.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 10, 2007, 04:46:37 PM
Hoffman, I'm getting further and further from certainty about hominy.  I thought the lye soaking is what made the yellow corn white.  No?  I mean, I know there's white corn, but it is a special, small kernal, eating corn--full of sugars.  No?  Yellow corn comes in a huge variety of "kinds" (for all sorts of uses) and the yellow color ranges from light to very dark.  Still, you know something I don't, you gotta tell me.  That's my rule.  Hear?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 10, 2007, 05:06:52 PM
I think you are right Donot...it is yellow corn.  I thought it was white because grits are whiter than corn meal.  I looked it up and found out that when the corn is ground up, it passes through two sifting processes.  The finer ground is used for corn meal, or polenta, and the coarser meal is grits. 

Hominy is dried corn kernels, soaked in lye (?)...which is probably why they are more white than yellow.

Has anyone else noticed that is is harder to find corn on the cob with the big yellow kernels?  In my area, they only sell ears with a white-yellow mix.   It tastes pretty good, but is a bit less sweet than the kind of sweet corn we used to get.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 10, 2007, 05:49:54 PM
Hoffman,

The corn grown or sold is a given area is due to the choices of the farmer for features of the seed and the crop. Around here, the extra-sweet yellow corns are popular for fresh in-season corn. It may be the difference in the climates. When I was reading about the history of the Natives before Europeans arrived, it was pointed out that especially in central America, Natives grew a great variety of corn of different sizes, colors, and the use they made of it.

Can you get the blue corn chips in your area? We can sometimes gets them, usually a short season. They are especially tasty.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 10, 2007, 09:06:08 PM
Anne...I do miss that yellow sweet corn.  I usually have an ear of corn every day with my lunch in the summer.  I never get tired of the stuff.

But we get blue corn chips, in many varieties, all year round.  My market also sells grits, hominy grits, corn meal and pre-made polenta that just needs slicing and frying up.  The area I live in is quite diverse...many races, many nationalities, and so successful supermarkets do their best to cater to all tastes (except apparently for that corn  :( ) 

There is also a vegetable market near by that is owned by a family of Polish-Italians.  They sell very good, reasonably priced fruits and veggies.  But add to the fresh produce, they make homemade piroggi, gnocci, raviolis, plus they have just put in a wonderful olive bar.  Their hummus is to die for....pine nuts and fresh herbs on top, not too lemony.  They also have a wonderful bakery with lots of Italian and Polish desserts and cookies....which they sell to go along side their blended coffees. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 10, 2007, 10:22:11 PM
Hoffman,

The corn grown or sold is a given area is due to the choices of the farmer for features of the seed and the crop. Around here, the extra-sweet yellow corns are popular for fresh in-season corn. It may be the difference in the climates. When I was reading about the history of the Natives before Europeans arrived, it was pointed out that especially in central America, Natives grew a great variety of corn of different sizes, colors, and the use they made of it.

Can you get the blue corn chips in your area? We can sometimes gets them, usually a short season. They are especially tasty.




The current status of all these thousands of ancient varieties in Central America and Mexico is now a mute point. I kind of mentioned it to the guys yelping in Immigrations (and by the way you were right about the quick change artist mentality) but they were so busy being authoritarian that I doubt they heard why these people are coming here in droves, their food crops have been wiped out by invasive agriculture North American style. The genetically modified corn released by Monsanto for which farmers in N.A. must buy new seed rather than saving their seed stock --obliterated the ancient varieties that these people rely on in Mexico with much harsher climate conditions. You are right about the weather, in the upper Midwest where there is lots of ice, they sometimes do not completely bring in the crop for feed-corn until sometime in November because they grow it in ravines between ridges, having less space for the crops harvested by machinery on the other side of the Mississippi.

We have a kind of world Domination thing taking place, for instance the crop that lhoffman mentioned in terms of ethanol production and rising prices -- will cause an inflation in the land price which is already an unbelievable  price in  your former home state. I realize that where you were located, it near scares me to death to drive in to the valley during the winter months, and I don't do the driving down the hills when it is slippery. I watched my godmother do it taking me up on the ridge in the area that I was referring to earlier and she scared the heck out of me because she was very "ancienne" by that time in her life, which is why she wanted me around but not really, it was hell on wheels as I watched her forget the routes that she had been driving since she first learned to drive, got lost in her birthplace, so fear she'd drive us over the edge and down a steep drop into a forested ravine was too much.

Up on the ridge we had a wide open 12 acres of arable land but it was turned into truck farming crops which is cool and I carried away my share for dinner from a  hard day's work in the sun. We often got so high on the fresh air, bring-in-the-crop-routine, that we didn't want to come down from the hills when sundown approached.   This was the point in time, that the Amish came in to buy the $300 dollar an acre available land,just as I left .  I won't even tell you the price of the land that they left behind and what it  has become as we go into deficit.

But wiping out other peoples' food supplies in Central America among the Mayan and in Mexico, why we owe them, instead of screaming about them coming in, we should have to pay for the crop lines we destroyed for ever. Oh, where is John Edwards when you need him now? Just kidding.

The result of course, is not the fault of the illegal migrants looking for work and food as the northwest white supremacists want you to believe it is the destruction of the genetically diverse crop of corn. It is very likely that a certain amount of Mennonites will be sent back out of Bolivia for connected reasons as the land becomes commune among the Indians there. The land price here will cause a rise in tax locally, and yes, Americans will do without food because of bad policy both in gov't attitude toward agriculture, and gov't attitude toward countries that would previously have traded with us and fed us; they are shutting down the banking connections to us, it began in the last few days and it is quite heavy. France and Germany are the first to give us the boot after the "war years" initiated and the insults from the head of the Defense department and the idiot congressmen like Ney from Ohio. It is a complex situation isn't it?

Puts me off my feed....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 10, 2007, 11:24:04 PM
Laurie,

Last weekend one of my nieces and family came from up your way down my way. There were truly exhausted by the mid-nineties heat with nights in the seventies. Fortunately, they headed north on Monday before the real heat wave moved in. The past three days have been above 100 with the temp at 11pm still in the high eighties, and never dropped below the mid seventies in the morning before it began to rise again. We had a thunderstorm last night and tonight, and the temp didn't even budge! The good news is now that we are finally getting some rain, the garden is beginning to produce. And, if we have a late frost this year, we should have some fine veggies for the season. Locally, there hasn't been much corn because of the drought. Even the feed corn is brown in the fields. But they say it's a good year for grapes!

I love piroggis!!!! We had a mix of Pa. Dutch, Polish and Italian families that belonged to the swimming pool association when I was growing up. Depending on which family was running the concession stand for the year, piroggis were sold. They were filled with your choice of sauer kraut, mashed potatoes, or cottage cheese. I like the mashed potato ones the least, but never made a best choice between the other two.

The grocery stores are doing better than they have been with the influx of Mexican immigrants. The food choices are getting better. I could get some good stuff in Richmond when I lived there, but Blackstone and Dinwiddie have always been pretty much "southern cooking" and not much variety. Lots of fat back, hog jowls, pigs feet in vinegar, and, of course chitlins! but never much selection of herbs, spices, pastas or fruits and vegetables.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 11, 2007, 12:39:19 AM
Madupont...Ethanol is a problem, but it seems there would be some way to stop manufacturing foods containing high fructose corn syrup.  The stuff is everywhere and it's terrible for your health.  Doesn't seem to do anything but make people fat. 

Anne...Pirrogis are one of our favorites.  I used to cook them in butter, but my husband really can't eat fried foods.  I've started boiling them and they are still delicious.  We sometimes have potato and onion pirrogies for supper alongside of pancakes, lean ham and applesauce....fat grams for the entire meal, less than 10, and low in cholesterol, too.  Also sometimes top them with red pasta sauce and serve with and salad and some grapes. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 11, 2007, 01:17:40 AM
Hoffman, as badly as I want to rid the grocery store shelves of processed foods containing corn fructose, ethanol from corn is too expensive to make--takes too much energy to produce a gallon.  Hemp, sugar cane, and other such (that I can't think of the names of right now--senior moment) converts to fuel at less cost.  The only reason ethanol from corn is the "thing" right now is that oil is over $50 a barrel.  I don't expect to ever see oil down below $50 again, but we still should go with the most energy efficient material/process we can.  I mean, it's not as if we can go on borrowing from China forever, eh?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 11, 2007, 01:28:30 AM
Donot...I don't know how efficient ethanol made from corn is, but I have been reading many articles lately that relate how the farmers all seem to want to jump on this bandwagon.  Many are struggling economically, and from what I read, many think that growing corn for energy will bail them out.  If there is no going back, I have to hope the farmers stop selling to producers of high fructose corn syrup. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 11, 2007, 02:19:10 AM
Hoffman, actually, what will happen is agri-business will buy up more of the struggling farmer's land until there aren't any struggling farmer's left.  After that the only struggling farmers you'll hear of will be in Central and South America and Africa.  But not to worry.  Given time, agri-business will take care of them, too.  Next, the water.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 11, 2007, 09:59:28 PM
http://www.purcellmountainfarms.com/Posole%20Recipes.htm

For all those who mentioned hominy, here is a recipe for red posole.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 11, 2007, 10:16:36 PM
http://www.purcellmountainfarms.com/Posole%20Recipes.htm

For all those who mentioned hominy, here is a recipe for red posole.

This looks delicious.  I might also be tempted to toss in some cumin, a pinch of cloves and some green chilis or jalepenos. 



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 11, 2007, 10:25:09 PM
http://www.bobsredmill.com/recipe/detail.php?rid=142

This is the recipe for corn meal grits/polenta according to bob whose products seem to show up in every supermarket. If they haven't, just go from the recipe and press the logo above for Our Products and run down the list to the corn meal grits.

In Pennsylvania, the boiled corn meal, grits or otherswise, is poured into a greased loaf pan and chilled overnight or longer and then sliced, floured, and fried; known as "fried cornmeal mush". On farms, it is eaten with bacon or sausage and syrup.  I was raised around maple syrup, so the other things on the supermarket shelf don't interest much, or that is to say -- not at all.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 11, 2007, 10:58:10 PM
Maddie,

That is exactly how I made grits until I married a southerner. I don't remember flouring it, just slicing and putting it in some bacon or sausage grease, or maybe some margarine.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 12, 2007, 10:12:41 AM
donotremove: When you say South American farmers, I would like to call your attention to Argentina, with Canada, USA and Australia and now Brazil, one of the giants of world agriculture. In Argentina farmers are owners of relatively big expances of land, as in the USA, Australia or Canada, at the moment they're doing very well, Argentina's economic recovery in the last few years after the December 2001 economic debacle, is due in grat part to agriculture.  Your fears are well based, agribusiness will take over the world, climate change will contribute to it too. Argentina has big freshwater reserves in the southern lakes, sometimes is no good to count your blessings.

As the beautifull young single mother said: "mother, did you have to make me so beautifull!!"


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 12, 2007, 11:14:17 AM
weezo

In the north,I learned to flour the slices to form a crust less likely to stick to the pan, however the recipe came north when my grandmother's mother took a wagon-train out of State College,Centre County,Pa. as a start up the mountain where, surprise,surprise, you find there is a vast plateau once you get up there which was probably amusing by oxen or whatever they used.

I know it scared me just coming down through the tree frogs with the lights of the little college town down in the valley once we left the sun behind to set slowly over the plateau. I made the trip back the year that the Turnpike was under construction along about Ohio and you sat locked into bumper to bumper traffic after Memorial Day on that hot dry plain with all the engines running and no way out of it. The first place to take a drink of water, if you are not carrying, is when you get to Belafonte which is noted for the fountains full of cold water; before the summer was out, I met a young man who had been born there, descended from when the slaves were yet crossing the Ohio River, and who was a guest at my son's wedding out on the West Coast. (But, then so was that funny little Chinese pathologist who blew  his testimony at the O.J. Simpson trial previously, Dennis Fong was it ?).

My ancestor was born in Pennsylvania when her father came with his wife because they were temporary persona non grata now that Napoleon had not only left Elba but gone on to die at Longwood on St.Helena; to really understand this phenomena for what it is worth, she named her daughter Josephine.  

(For any of those in the forums, who don't fully understand the term: Escape from Elba,  there is a very tiny little book with a black cover, titled: Longwood, which fills you in very nicely in short order as to what exile is really like.   As a result, I first found out about this web-site from my friend Fabrice at the Paris labor bureau.)

It's an interesting thought that back in those days,people considered to be dangerous criminals were placed on tropical islands and surrounded by a dangerous sea. It is somehow telling that Pres.Bush came up with something so classic and yet, his prison yards less resemble the locales of the 19th.century incarceration than they do the deserts of Napoleon's campaign in Egypt where so many of the troops succumbed to the extreme climate.  When Charleen Gault went in to investigate and report to her television network, so that the audience could look too, they conned her mightily along with the public, all you saw were hootches
but more open than those of Vietnam which meant they were hastily tacked together because that's show business.

So, back to fried corn meal mush, the recipes of the Penn Dutch passed on from mother to daughters/mother to daughter/mother to daughter, and to my understanding they are as far now as Austin,Texas,and Arizona, some part of California,and Maui,Hawaii.  But it wasn't until I ate at a place on Route One that no longer exists which used to be a motel where Mennonites and Amish could stay over night  on their visits to the more local Longwood ( I often noticed an Amishman out mowing the lawn with a push mower at the Longwood entrance out front of the Quaker meeting house; so as you see,they worked down here for extra jobs at day wages)--anyway, I was in the restaurant and in the course of dinner,had one of those Eureka moments over a side dish of sugared carrots that tasted just like my grandmother cooked on the farm when I was a kid.

The real secret about Pennsylvania was that when the first boatload of Anabaptists arrived from Klepfeld in the 17th.century from the Baltic port, when they began farming,their cuisine went through a radical change, because they made due with what could be produced locally in this climate, this has even affected the German cuisine in Philadelphia, which is why I can't find a ready-made bakery produced rye roll to save my life.  It is not a part of their local tradition. They don't grow rye very well in this climate which needs a colder temperature range, and explains why Abendbrod is said over potato-bread and soup.  That of course also accounts for largesse of corn-syrup which was not part of the original diet that relied on beet-sugar.

Too hot here to produce the latter.  Some years ago, well let's be frank,in the early Seventies, I went up to Lake Superior to visit what  had been a tourist lodge back in the Twenties and now housed a commune who were adapting to the climate; so that our mutual friend Elfriede/Laksmi could visit with old friends while she was home on visa renewal.  That's where I learned that a woman who had survived the concentration camps was up there in the woods with a little plot of cleared land around her cabin, raising sugar beets which she used to feed her goats.  She was willing to teach anyone who wanted to bother learning how to process beets into beet sugar.  I think these are probably the things that we were supposed to be learning, before The Crash.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 13, 2007, 10:37:53 AM
Anne...I do miss that yellow sweet corn. 

Hey, I had some sweet, all-yellow corn this weekend.  Got it from a local family farm stand, but I seem to recall getting bi-color (or butter and sugar, as I was raised to call it) from them in the past.  It was delicious, of course.  So, the yellow corn is still out there -- maybe thinking small is the key to finding it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 13, 2007, 11:32:56 AM
Quote
Hey, I had some sweet, all-yellow corn this weekend.  Got it from a local family farm stand, but I seem to recall getting bi-color (or butter and sugar, as I was raised to call it) from them in the past.  It was delicious, of course.  So, the yellow corn is still out there -- maybe thinking small is the key to finding it.

One of the disadvantages of Urban living.  But how do you cook corn on the cob?  I like mine barely done.  Large pot of boiling water with a squeeze of lemon juice, boil for 2 minutes, sit for 8-10.  Butter and salt it and eat it right off the cob.  (It seems to me the butter and sugar variety takes a little less time than the pure yellow.  I used to sit the yellow for 10-12 minutes...but maybe I like it less done than I used to.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 13, 2007, 12:00:48 PM
If we're grilling, I like to soak the corn, husk and all, in water for about 30 minutes, then grill for about 15 minutes (maybe)?  I go by when you smell it -- love that aroma -- so am guessing on the actual cooking time.  Indoors, stipped ears in a skillet, water as high as it'll go without spilling.  Boil, turning corn as you go, until you smell the corn aroma (different from the grilled aroma, but wonderful nonetheless) in the steam coming up from the pan.   It's usually 5-10 minutes or so, depending.  We don't do butter, salt or anything, just the corn.  You're right, though; mushy corn on the cob may still taste great, but the experience is a little disappointing.

If your city or neighborhod has farmers' markets -- like, New Haven does it Saturday morning, other cities/towns will have it on a weekday afternoon --  a lot of those proprietors are your small operators and might have the non-Monsanto corn.  Just a thought.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 13, 2007, 01:02:22 PM
Wow...you may run across my son in the New Haven farm market some Saturday...he often goes there on week-ends to visit his girlfriend, and they always visit the farm market.  (You'll know him if you see him...he's the best looking guy there  :D
)
But, we do have farm markets, and no luck with the yellow corn. 

Now...when you cook your corn in the skillet...does the water evaporate before the corn is done?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 13, 2007, 01:16:06 PM
Now...when you cook your corn in the skillet...does the water evaporate before the corn is done?

No, but there has been the occasional close call.  And I'll keep an eye out at the market...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: martinbeck3 on August 14, 2007, 12:47:48 PM
The *in* food in Argie beaches is eating boiled corn from guys who walk around carrying them in a telgopor(*) box.It´s delicious and healthy. It´s a good business,too.The kilo costs 5 pesos and it´s sold at 3 pesos each.The guy pays no taxes or anything, least of all permission.

(*) stryrofoam


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: martinbeck3 on August 14, 2007, 12:51:28 PM
DES, watch it! It´s not *chiropractor*.Those know less than *a thing*.
remember *osteopathy*.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 14, 2007, 05:26:47 PM
Back to #396 so that you don't end up living by corn alone.

The reason for roasting pieces of a whole chicken, in case, the guests don't show up in Peach season and don't even phone because they are having a fight with each other about whether to make peach pie or peach short-cake,

is that you may make this special chicken salad when there are left overs. It is definitely a summer chicken salad.

It begins with something that weezo probably knows from the locale of her hometown,Reading.

I know it as,"Mother-in-law's Salad Dressing". I think Betty Groff may have published this, by the patter that goes with it," Have you ever noticed how many men want the kind of salad dressing their mother used to make? You might as well humour them -- it's easy to make this:

7 T. granulated sugar                           1 T. ground mustard powder
2 heaping T. flour                                1/2 cup water
1 and 1/2 t. salt                                  1/2  cup apple cider vinegar
                            1 egg, beaten

Put everything but the egg into a double boiler ( or one pan over the
other), mix well (whoa! I would put all the dry stuff together and blended together before slowly adding the liquid) and cook  until the mixture is thick. Keep an eye on this, don't walk away, you want to stir regularly with a wooden spoon so that it is smooth, or use a whisk . While hot pour it over the beaten egg in a bowl and beat again.

Important   part  !    To make sure the egg is cooked, I pour it back into the double boiler and stir it for 2 minutes over the water on the fire. It keeps well in the "fridge" (that's why I think it is Betty Groff) and middle-aged men,especially, think it is wonderful.

Okay, we proceed from here by cubing left over chicken breast, because there are never left over chicken legs and thighs,ever notice? Add quite a lot of alco cubed pieces of smaller sized cucumbers and then the dressing which has cooled off. You will be quite surprised at the flavor and it may become your favorite chicken salad for summer.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 14, 2007, 06:24:05 PM
Options on the previous Chicken salad with mother-in-law's dressing.

This recipe was first put together in an alternative form when cooking dinners for en masse  meetings in church basements to hear visitors come back from China in the 1970s or to see films brought back, because in this way more delegations could afford to go to China if they bought a three course Chinese meal

Before seasoning the chicken for the oven, you give it a marinade of proportions of shoyu (soy sauce) and rice wine(marin or sake), play around with this to see what ratio you prefer. If you do not use marin from the Chinese cooking aisle -- or sake from the liquer store, use Sugar. We always had some rock sugar around as was originally used in Chinese cooking and it was kept in a tea caddy but other than that you should try for a teaspoon of sugar to every 2 T. of shoyu. Put the chicken in it --in a closed container or big zip lock back in the refrigerator.

You give it what ever time you generally use when you do a marinade for barbecue or grilling but in this case it is easy to broil or bake ahead of time for the salad making without having to stand around in hot weather.

Now, before making the basic mother's-in-law dressing you can make an addition of both ground cumin and coriander  to underline the flavor that you had originally used to season the chicken at #396.  Just blend in to the other dry ingredients and follow the previous recipe for making the dressing. While the dressing cools, you  remove the chicken from the marinade and season it according to our first chicken and peaches recipe, what was that? #39, I've forgotten by now.  I should have checked on it before doing this variation. In any case, you know that you have some lemon, some oil, some cumin, and coriander powder, on chicken that was salted with sea-salt* ---ahah, but that was before we decided to marinade it with soy* for the Chinese version. Do not put in both, use one or the other before you delicately drizzle the chicken with some small amount of oil for baking or grilling.

While everything cools that is supposed to be cool for salad, prepare your vegetables.  As before you will be adding cucumber cubes or sliced thin; mounds or heaps or whatever amount you like of carefuly washed and toweled and crisped Green Coriander herbs preferably from the garden (the Chinese call it Yuen Sai --or, een-sigh! I have a second planting just coming up from a seeding yesterday). Optional are those green onions/scallions which they keep bringing from Mexico despite the problems that arose in the franchise fast food industry. If you don't grow your own in the shade at this point in the summer when they will have begun to taste much hotter than spring-onions, try your local farmers market for locally produced scallions.

When the salad is combined it is best served on head lettuce which has been halved and then shredded very fine, that is sliced very thinly with a very sharp knife so that you form a bed for the chicken salad and then you arrange quartered tomatoes around the mound of salad.

Options, we sometimes sprinkled this salad with white sesame seed carefully toasted in a small black iron pan because you don't want it to burn but just to brown and have a paper plate with paper towel ready to turn the seeds out of the pan as soon as you notice the pan has toasted them either in the oven or on the stove top, either way is tricky.

Alternative, fold in similarly browned-toasted almond slices before you mound the salad on the shredded lettuce surrounded by quartered tomatoes.

Another delicious condiment actually comes in a can, with a pull back pop up like Pepsi, but which can be resealed with a plastic lid that comes with it as is, and that is Fried Rice Noodles, to which I am addicted. Notice this salad is not served accompanied by rice.

But for carb cravers, this salad is also excellently served in a rolled multigrain Tumaro's gourmet tortilla from Santa Monica Blvd. L.A.

This recipe was adapted from one described as Beijing Summer Chicken Salad, because Beijing at the time of year is hot and dusty--sometimes so thick that people can not see where they are going because the city gets the wind from the northern desert.  People there also eat cold noodles at this time of year. Coriander, which seems to be an acquired taste for Americans, is cooling.

Of course you will serve this with tea, not iced but you can, preferably ordinary teapot tea, I've discovered a new one. Celestial Seasonings decaf China Pearl  White Tea, otherwise I drink English Afternoon Tea by Twinings because of the black Keemun tea blended with other black teas from Ceylon. In rainy weather, I drink Earl Grey with double bergamot by Stash. If you prefer red tea, then you have Twinings China OOlong.

Yes, you may have fortune cookies, if you must absolutely have them. I have Pistachio ice cream to go with them from Ben and Jerry. I once met the man from Iowa who remained in China following WW2 to show them how to start dairy farming so that they could have ice-cream for everybody, in Beiching. He came to speak or show films or something, at one of my dinners so that people could go see for themselves. His name was Orville Schell but not the one from Berkeley,


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 14, 2007, 08:13:01 PM
Maddie,

I'm not with you on the mother-in-law dressing. My mother used mayonnaise(Actually Miracle Whip) almost exclusively and my Pa Dutch mother in law didn't cook much of anything. My southern mother in law also used mayonnaise/Miracle Whip almost exclusively. Hubby thinks I'm getting fancy when I use bottled blue cheese dressing on baked potatoes.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 15, 2007, 02:08:55 PM
Now you have me wanting rock candy, maddie.  You just never see it anymore unless you go to one of those candy stores in the mall.

Your recipe sounds so delicious - you're going to have to feed me somehow if you keep this up.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito on August 16, 2007, 06:50:35 AM
martinbeck3:

"The *in* food in Argie beaches is eating boiled corn"

Here in Australia too, in Bondi Beach, here in Sydney, they sell them from a metal contraption on the footpath (sidewalk) where the corn is boliled and then sold with lashings of butter (well...margarine in fact).

THE WHOLE THING COMES FROM BRAZIL, some "vivo barbaro" saw the thing ove there, or maybe a smart Brazilian started the fashion, I saw them also being sold in other venues away from the beach.  Is a lot less complicated than the choripan, less messy, no smoke. Bloody Brazilians!!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 23, 2007, 06:41:16 PM
I went on a food vacation because it has been too cold here in the hottest month of the year. Down to under 45 degrees F. for an entire week of continuous rain.  I'm presuming it is the hurricane weather. I ate relatively different food than I would usually at this time of year, including Chicken Paprikash; but when it got to where I was ready to make a Gingerbread to fit the temperature, I had to admit something was way out of whack.  Possibly an early winter and super cold. Talk about "little Ice age" in American History.  Or global warming allowing Vikings to get to Vinland. 

Soon maybe I will be back later to discuss Lentils and Rice, or Tortillas with refried beans and basic stuff served with Old El Paso's new -Mexican tomato Pineapple Salsa, and whether I am going to make Peach Kuchen. Or, maybe I'll just pout.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 23, 2007, 07:37:22 PM
Mad,

If I hadn't seen a jar of tomato pinapple salsa on the shelves of the Walmart today, I would have though you were hallucinating. But there it was. I just passed it by since I don't do anything with salsa, and found the spaghetti sauce I was looking for. No pineapple flavors there.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 23, 2007, 08:39:11 PM
Pineapple salsa is wonderful on roasted pork or fish.  Also very good....brush olive oil on pita bread or naan, heat it in your oven at 400 degrees until the bread puffs up, then dip it into the salsa.  (You can also heat the bread in your microwave, but it tends not to puff as much as in the oven.)

Mango also makes a pretty good salsa....nice with rice and pork when you can't find a good chutney.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 23, 2007, 08:52:03 PM
Here's an easy mango salsa

1 small diced mango
1/2 large diced red bell pepper, diced small
1 small minced jalepeno pepper (use seeds if you like it hot)
1/4 cup diced red onion, diced small
2 T chopped cilantro
2 T  lime juice
2 T extra-virgin olive oil
3/4 tsp. ground cumin
sea salt to taste

I go with a pretty big dice on the veg, but small on the cilantro.  Mix mango and veg in bowl.  In a separate bowl mix lime juice, olive oil, cumin and sea salt.  Pour over mango mix in bowl, let set for about an hour and you are ready to serve it. 





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 23, 2007, 08:53:53 PM
This recipe is also quite delicious:

http://www.elise.com/recipes/archives/005159pineapple_tomato_salsa.php

1 1/2 cup chopped fresh pineapple
1 cup chopped fresh plum tomato (about 2 plum tomatoes)
1/2 cup chopped red onion
1/4 cup chopped red bell pepper
1 Anaheim chile, roasted, seeds, stem, and veins removed, chopped OR 1 fresh serrano chile, seeds and stem removed, chopped*
Juice of one or two fresh limes (2-3 Tbsp, to taste)
1/4 teaspoon salt
1 Tbsp olive oil
1/4 cup chopped fresh cilantro, packed
Combine all of the ingredients in a medium sized bowl.

Makes approximately 3 cups.

Be sure and check out the site....if the photo doesn't convince you to try it, nothing will.

* Take care when handling hot chile peppers. Make sure to wash your hands thoroughly with soap and hot water after handling them. Avoid touching your eyes.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Detective_Winslow on August 24, 2007, 01:07:45 AM
Detective Winslow says

(http://www.nndb.com/people/045/000108718/reginald-veljohnson.jpg)


What would be the best method for me to lose 50 pounds in 2 weeks?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 24, 2007, 02:05:47 AM
Pineapple salsa is wonderful on roasted pork or fish.  Also very good....brush olive oil on pita bread or naan, heat it in your oven at 400 degrees until the bread puffs up, then dip it into the salsa.  (You can also heat the bread in your microwave, but it tends not to puff as much as in the oven.)

Mango also makes a pretty good salsa....nice with rice and pork when you can't find a good chutney.


Thanks for recipes.   We can't even buy nan here.  I used to be able to buy it in the very same stores that do not carry it now. Guess why?   It was sent over from the company in Brooklyn which has always had a large Muslim population in the vicinity of Maimonides hospital.

So if I want it -- or other breads, I have to hand-patty them myself. Quite suddenly gradually over the last four years, the large supermarket that I'd been going to since 1997 --realized it had a Muslim shopping clientele (they looked pretty glum about being customers  and it would break your heart to see some of the  human emotions being played out because of course they shop together as families, fathers cuddling small boys who were too heavily tired to walk, Husbands of an older generation who walk in front of their wives to protect them from any sudden altercation, etc.

Then, the things that they came for disappeared and so did they. I had the opportunity about the same time to talk with a very small  young woman, on a field trip the residential complex took by bus for a day outting.  I noticed upon arrival at our destination, she was left behind by the cluster who were grouping with their back to her.  I decided to join her in a gift shop before the group set out and that way I could walk along with her and tell her some of the things about this place we were touring on a very hot June day outside. She told me, that pretty soon they were leaving for Atlanta, and I thought, oh, my goodness but that was before I understood what is happening there in Atlanta where there is apparently a higher paying hiring policy for work that either calls for a better intellectual capacity or people who do not mind a largely non-white urban population.  I guess she implied that her husband had found a particular job and they were looking forward to the move. I found it interesting that apparently he had no objection to her going on her own, if she was interested in  field-tripping with the neighbours.
 
Of course, while in Princeton where we had a large campus group from most Muslim countries (although I was surprised to learn somewhat after the fact that, when I  had lived closer to the Lawrenceville School, it would never have occurred to me that former Saudi head of police, and more recently ambassador from Saudi Arabia to Washington,D.C., Turki al Faisal had been a prep school student there in his youth), I had not given them  a thought as a religious minority in a dominantly fundamentalist Christian area.

Then the night of moving in, the hour was dark about this time of year, and I'd been so busy being sure an entire farm-house was getting redistributed over here, that food had not crossed my mind.   After walking into a restaurant in a fairly typical motel, with many in a tourist area, I was glad that I had an escort because quite soon I realized  that somebody was staring holes through the back of my dress, when I turned to make eye contact, I realized that I must have caused some confusion to my viewer who was a  quite typical Indian Muslim. Since the salad-bar was now a disaster, we could order anything off the menu and went to a booth. The Muslim from India made it a point to sit not too far away with a thin local blonde facing him so that he could take in what we ordered and what we did.  I realized then there was an adjoining door to the bar-room and the usual louder conversation of a few too many women who had been drinking  for several hours.  It wasn't until exiting the restaurant into the lobby that I took in the full personnel.  This enterprise was one of those places so thoroughly advertising so many decades ago and offering Indians a comfortable income in the US by going into motel management. No women, however, all men. At this place, that is.  

While still seated in the booth, over supper, I explained in some small degree to the person across from me at table, what was being observed about us, by what we ate and what we drank, and what the observor was learning.

I think you can readily imagine, rice and fish, yes, mango,pineapple; pork, no.

But actually, here in the restaurant, the diet was the usual American fare. The fellow in the other booth had been urging the blond that she might "eat anything you want; I'm not eating right now."

While I was regaling the other party at table with me, in a moderately low voice with tales of little Tante Laksmi, my friend who went to India and told stories that you could imagine ending up in the cartoon section of Playboy and then known as the adventures of Little Annie Fanny, as she would find herself chased around the table when someone invited her to dinner because she wasn't yet accustomed to the customs of various and different people as yet. I had always told her she would like Indian men; she eventually married a prince.

It strikes me that this is perhaps a better account of the relationship you were previously discussing about the ups and downs, ins and outs of something, Said called (or, was it somebody else?), Orientalism.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 24, 2007, 10:53:55 AM
Well, on a totally anti-climactic note, we talked so much about grits last week that last night I made shrimp 'n grits for dinner. It was okay -- the grits came out looking kind of like glue, which I attribute to my 1) following directions; and 2) refusing to use orange cheddar cheese.  Next time around, I might make the cheese mix 50/50 cheddar and Romano, or go all Romano.  (I'm hooked on its bite.)   Or I might go with polenta, to get around the whole white food thing.   Anyway, here's what I did:

Prepare grits:
4 C water
1 C grits
salt, pepper
1/4 C butter
2 C grated (X-sharp) Cheddar

Boil water, whisk/stir in grits, salt & pepper.  Let it go about 15-20 minutes; when it's thickened to your satisfaction, throw in the butter and cheese and remove from heat.  Stir in the butter and cheese 'til they're incorporated.

Sort of meanwhile,
Fry up 1/2 lb or so of bacon.   Let the bacon drain, then crumble and set aside.  Leave the grease in the pan, and throw in 1 lb. shrimp -- chunked up if you have large one.  Cook, stirring semi-frequently, 'til shrimp are just pink; then throw in some chopped onion and garlic and keep stirring.  Keep stirring, saute the onion/garlic but take care the shrimp don't vulcanize.  Remove from heat when the mix is done. 

Plop grits in bowl, top with shrimp, garnish/top again with bacon.

Since I am an avowed damn Yankee, is there anything I did above that I should have done? Or conversely, something I did not do that I should have? 



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 24, 2007, 10:57:30 AM
We often use mango salsa (just like the recipe, but without cilantro) on grilled fish, and sometimes throw in black beans for something different texture-wise, or if the fish steaks are smallish.  And lately, if we have a pineapple, we don't salsify it, we grill it.  Super good.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 24, 2007, 11:45:27 AM
harrie -

Grits have to be cooked for a specific period of time and then allowed to "sit" covered a couple of minutes  - that is to say that you don't cook them until they're thickened as much as you think they should be because they continue to thicken AFTER being cooked.  They are by nature a bit gluey, but stirring them up a bit usually takes care of that.  I think your recipe probably would have come out better had you added all the other ingredients to the grits after they had been cooked and allowed everything to melt while the grits were sitting there covered.

Instant grits have a less gluey consistency and they taste quite good as an alternative. I would add some fresh tomato to that mixture as well.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 24, 2007, 12:47:32 PM
desdemona,
Thanks for the tips.  The grits did sit there for a minute because of timing, but I probably should have let them sit some more.  And it would make sense to mix everything in and let sit, because then the grits would pick up the flavors.  Will definitely do that next time.  Oh yes, there will be a next time.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 24, 2007, 01:55:51 PM
"I like me them fried per-tayters."

-- Sling Blade



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 24, 2007, 02:09:38 PM
Grillled pineapple...we had some last week.  Peeled and cored a whole pineapple, cut in six pieces and put it on the grill until it started to turn brown and bubbly.  When you grill it for just the right length of time, all the natural sugars begin to carmelize and you end up with a delicious dessert. 

In the past, I've made grilled pineapple for dessert and served it alongside pineapple sorbet.  The contrast between the hot sweet pineapple and the icy tart pineapple is wonderful.  (Served along with mint or sage tea, this makes a nice finish if you have enjoyed a very spicy meal.)

Black beans sounds like a nice addition to the mango salsa.  I've eaten this salsa on black bean burgers...quite tasty. 



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 24, 2007, 02:16:55 PM
On the unavailability of Naan.....pita is close, not quite the same, but close.  And I would guess it's available most everywhere.   

My mother used to make something similar to naan when we were growing up.  On bread baking day, she would make flat patties out of the dough and fry it up in a cast iron skillet.  We would have it for our supper, slathered in her home canned strawberry or grape jam.  I don't believe I've ever enjoyed bread so much.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 28, 2007, 12:12:19 PM
Wondering why grocery store bakery bread is usually so dreadful.  I bought some "sourdough" they were selling at a bargain price, and it just tasted like sour chemicals, i.e. extracted from armpits.  Read the ingredients and was startled to find that about eight of the ingredients were just chemical names, like "moncalcium lactase polycyanate" or whatever.  I'm done with store bread.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 28, 2007, 12:28:42 PM
Barton, bakery breads are the only way to go if you can get there and can afford the price (the poor, of course, can't do either of these things, generally.)

Sourdough bread should be buttered and oven toasted to bring out the best in its flavor.  A deep golden color is a good gauge about when the toast is "done".  But, toasting is not something that should be left unattended.  You gotta stand over it.

There is a difference in the taste of New York (East Coast) sourdough and San Francisco sourdough.

When I get hungry for a baloney sandwich, I want that gooey store made white bread, and regular mustard.  Damn.  I can eat one in four bites.

Oddly, to me, pumpernickel makes a delicious breakfast toast (you know, eggs/bacon.)

Well, as you see I'm wound up.  I get that way about bread.  I have to make myself be reasonable when I get in a bakery.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 28, 2007, 12:45:12 PM
So I was looking to make a basic chocolate sugar cookie -- kind of like the Archway Dutch Cocoa cookes.  I'm still looking; but this one came close and kind of kicks ass.  It comes out more looking like a brownie cookie than what I was looking for, but it's still a great cookie. 

From e-cookbooks.net   

Double Chocolate Cookies

1 pound semisweet chocolate, chopped (or a bag and a half of semi-sweet chips)
2 cups all-purpose flour
1/2 cup Dutch process cocoa powder
2 teaspoons baking powder
1 teaspoon salt
10 tablespoons unsalted butter
1-1/2 cups packed brown sugar
1/2 cup white sugar
4 eggs
2 teaspoons instant coffee granules
2 teaspoons vanilla extract

1. Melt chocolate over a double boiler or in the microwave, stirring  occasionally until smooth. Sift together flour, cocoa, baking powder, and  salt; set aside. 
2. In a medium bowl, cream butter with white sugar and brown  sugar until smooth. In a small bowl, lightly beat the eggs; then add vanilla.  On top of that, sprinkle coffee granules and let them break down for a minute.  Stir in melted chocolate. Using a wooden  spoon (or keep the mixer on a very low speed), stir in the dry ingredients just until everything comes together.  Cover, and let stand for 35 minutes (or longer, in the fridge or out. works either way) so the chocolate can set up. 
3. Preheat the oven to 350F. Line two cookie sheets with parchment paper. Roll dough into walnut sized balls, or drop by rounded tablespoonfuls onto the prepared cookie sheets*, leaving 2 inches between cookies.    *a cookie scoop works wonders with this particular recipe, as the dough is a little sticky
4. Bake for 8 to 10 minutes in the preheated oven. Cookies will be  set, but the centers will still be very soft because of the chocolate. Allow  cookies to cool on the baking sheets for 10 minutes before transferring to  wire racks to cool completely.


So does anyone know where I can find what I'm lookng for -- the Archway Dutch Cocoa type cooke?  Besides the grocery store, that is. 





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 28, 2007, 12:48:12 PM
There is a difference in the taste of New York (East Coast) sourdough and San Francisco sourdough.

That is something I always wondered about.  Different how, would you say? 

I love pumpernickel for peanut butter samiches, crunchy of course. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 28, 2007, 01:00:47 PM
Harrie, maybe the starter?  The amounts of everything in the recipe?  The resultant crumb?  Who knows?  It's like a Chicago dog, one pickle over another, Orange julius--which you can't find anymore--thin crust pizza.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 28, 2007, 01:10:20 PM
pumpernicle breakfast:

toast.  slather on some cream cheese.  add some sardines packed in olive oil, hopefully the expensive teeny ones WITH skin and bones.  squeeze on some fresh lemon juice.  add a few slices of fresh, ripe new jersey tomatoes.  top with fresh ground pepper.  eat.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 28, 2007, 01:12:53 PM
alternative pumpernickle breakfast:

toast.  cover with a few slabs of pickled herring, smothered in sour cream and fresh onion slices.  eat.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 28, 2007, 01:13:20 PM
Well, I meant -- does the Eastern sourdough taste more... maybe metallic for example, than the SF? Or does the SF have a rounder, fuller flavor than the Eastern?  Or a different/better texture or something?

Not trying to drive you crazy, it's just that I'm from the East, have bought sourdoughs from various sources -- a bakery, the grocery store's bakery section, Bantam Bread (an awesome place, BTW) -- and most of the time have kind of shrugged and thought "Is that all there is?"  So I'm guessing the Eastern sourdough comes up short somehow, and was just curious whether the shortcoming was a definable characteristic or just some intangible, je ne sais quois kind of thing.  I guess it's #2.


law, substitute nova for the sardines, my maters for the NJ, and I'm there.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 28, 2007, 01:15:21 PM
nova works, but then yopu need a few thin slices of fresh bermuda onion too.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 28, 2007, 01:31:24 PM
The only time we buy Wonder bread, is if we are totally out of decent bread and have to pick up some at a country store where they don't carry wheat, rye or pumpernickel.

Pumpernickel is good with almost anything. Toasted with eggs and bacon or sausage for breakfast, as a sandwich with deli meats and fresh tomatoes, or as the old standby, peanut butter and jelly.

I was surprised recently to learn that pumpernickel is really made of rye four with coffee added for the color and taste.

I'm not a big fan of sourdough bread, I tend to refer rye or pumpernickel for sandwiches. Rye makes a wonderful grilled cheese sandwich! I prefer buns, hamburger, sandwich, and sub rolls, to be wheat bread, but have never seen a place that sold wheat hog dog buns!

I enjoy pita bread, especially whole wheat, but haven't bought any in a while. Need to think of adding that to my repertoite. I tend to eat a "sub style" (lots of meat and cheese with a few pieces of red-leaf lettuce) sandwich for lunch, and pita bread is less bread with plenty of space for fillings.

It's been erattic trying to get the bread, especially rolls I like, at the local food lion, so I've started freezing it when I can find it and thawing as I need it. Saves on throwing out half a pkg that gets moldy in the summer humidity too quick.

As for the store bakery goods, rather than cross them off, try another grocerty store or try a bakery. In the stores I shop, the bakery breads are usually made without presertatives and don't last as long as the commercial breads. YMMV






Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 28, 2007, 01:35:44 PM
I've always thought that San Francisco starter was ripened longer than New York starters.  If you leave your starter in the pot for a few extra days, you get a sourer (for lack of a better word) character.

The difference may be something like 3-4 days for east coast, 7-8 for west.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on August 28, 2007, 01:50:35 PM
Trader Joes sells or did last time I looked a Honey Wheat Hot Dog Bun 6 to a package I think but you don't have Trader Joes down your way.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 28, 2007, 02:14:12 PM
Bosox,

No, as far as I know, we don't. It may be possible to get wheat hot dog buns in Richmond, maybe Petersburg, but I choose among two food lions and one walmart within 30 min driving time. A drive to the Ukrops in Petersburg which has an excellent selection of goodies, is 45 min each way, and I usually reserve that for vacation times or when I have business in Petersburg. Otherwise it's Blackstone or Edgehill as choices.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 28, 2007, 08:43:19 PM
So far, have counted three of you with definite Germanic root-stock, according with the descriptions of how you like your brekstuck of dark rye or pumpernickle decorated in the morgen.  I was always surprised at the really really Germans that I knew, the imported kind and what they had to have for a morning meal. The most conservative and pecunious settled for cottage cheese and toasted rye. The elegant Vienna ladies of fashion opted for Muenster melted cheese. Bavarians work up to the raw onion; toward the Tyrol you get schmeer kase. The Baltic gives you herring and Schleswig-Holstein sour-cream (I had an hysterical Baltic- born friend who delivered bread from a basket over her arm on cold mornings before she got out of Germany; somebody about my own age).Queen, only baby of the house for a short while, was spoiled, sneaking down the back stairs to "help" Oscar do the baking, eating sweets while he was paddling the loaves into the brick oven, which he had laid out on trestles between wood horses, with a gigantes mixing bowl from a Fairy tale that could have held four or five of me which lets  you know where those old Brothers Grimm were at. As Oscar made his daily bread, I swiped vanilla icing that decorates the Danish, and popped candied maraschino cherries in my mouth. But to this day, my favorite thing is schnecken which you can't find any more unless you make them yourself. At the end of the Depression, they were made with real butter, and real eggs, schnel and so are sometimes called that: schnellen or snails. More body than croissants but the Vienese way and not greasy, they are brodchen that they say the Turks brought with them when they conquered what would become the Austro-Hungarian Empire that now would have coffee-houses and intellectual life and cafe mit schlog-gobbers stuck in your kaiserlich whiskers. By the start of the war, the neighborhood smelled of boiled coffee at ten in the morning, reheated, nobody threw away and started over.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 28, 2007, 09:11:55 PM
I've always thought that San Francisco starter was ripened longer than New York starters.  If you leave your starter in the pot for a few extra days, you get a sourer (for lack of a better word) character.

The difference may be something like 3-4 days for east coast, 7-8 for west.

Lhoffman, That sounds entirely reasonable.  I've been reading up on making a starter; maybe over the winter I'll do some experimenting. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on August 28, 2007, 10:18:30 PM
Harrie...I usually get back to bread making in September.  This year I will experiment with sour dough.  I think the shorter ferment will work, but then, it's also possible I'll bake myself a brick.  I'll let you know if it breaks my bread knife.  ;D


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on August 29, 2007, 10:15:18 AM
madupoint--

great taste of the past.  my roots are germanic only if you consider the yiddish culture of the pale of settlement as germanic, which in a sense is true.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 29, 2007, 10:25:47 AM
Harrie, maybe the starter?  The amounts of everything in the recipe?  The resultant crumb?  Who knows?  It's like a Chicago dog, one pickle over another, Orange julius--which you can't find anymore--thin crust pizza.

 Believe it or not, there is an Orange Julius stand in the Underground here and in a couple of malls.  They've gone to -guess what! - smoothies.

I don't know what it is about San Francisco sour dough, but it is so much better than anywhere else.  It closely matches the situation with French bread - Reising's in New Orleans is the only really good French bread in the country as far as I'm concerned, but why?

I've noticed that SF sourdough is just the slightest bit doughy and the flavor is very pungent.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 29, 2007, 11:25:23 AM
madupont -

Interesting, your remarks about Germans and breakfast.  I was eating breakfast at a hotel buffet in Santa Monica several years back and there were a couple of Germans behind me.  One of them said, "You eat FRUIT for BREAKFAST?" as I served myself some canteloupe.  "All the time," I said.  He shook his head and said, "I've never seen that done."


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 29, 2007, 12:37:46 PM
Sometimes fruit is the principal breakfast item for me -- but then, I have no Germanic root stock.

There's a coop here that makes pretty good bread, though the whole wheat, in spite of its organic ingredients and absence of chemicals, seems kind of bland.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 29, 2007, 01:48:12 PM
I have Germanic root stock, barton, but I didn't know it at the time.  Leave to LDS to set me straight on my genealogy.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 29, 2007, 01:53:11 PM
desdemona, let them hang out long enough in California and they will learn to appreciate fruit for breakfast. They may have been tourists but then again not. When I'm there, I eat fruit for breakfast but they handle it so well.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 29, 2007, 02:03:35 PM
Law120b,re:#460

I could kind of tell.  It was when you put the sour cream with the onions on the rye.

I also like sour cream on pirogi but maybe the onions should be fried like those little crispy kind that French's  puts in a pop top can.  If this summer was hotter, I'd put a dollop of sour cream in a serving of a chilled bottle of Manischevitz borsht, sprinkle it with dill weed and blend it all in together as I eat.

Some of my first ideas on Yiddish food were transmitted by Theodore Bikel accompanied by songs both Russian And Yiddish.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 29, 2007, 02:05:55 PM
Des, Atlanta has an underground (subway system)?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 29, 2007, 02:27:35 PM
Now, in the opposite direction, how I made sourdough starter when I had hops in the back yard growing from the rock garden over the chicken coop. I was looking for my old recipe and couldn't locate it but found some other hints.

Boil some peeled potatoes, say 4, in plenty of water to cover. Do what you will with the spuds, but save the water.

[Now, I'll tell you right here, that's  your prerogative, but we used to mash the potatoes down, as a mash; and with home-made yeast, tea was made from a handful of hops with pollen in them at this time of year and after the tea had simmered and sat covered for about 15 minutes, you strain it into the pan in which you are cooking the potatoes until they are tender and mashable.]

The recipe continues: Mix two cups of it(the water), lukewarm, with 2 cups of all-purpose flour, 1 tablespoon sugar, and 1 teaspoon salt. Put in a crock and let stand in a warm spot, loosely covered for 3 0r 4 days, or until it is working merrily and has attained a peculiar and to me, delightful sour odor. To hasten this process, you may add a cake of yeast at the beginning[you don't need this when using hops-tea],but if you have the time, let it takes its  natural course. When "ripe", it may be stored in the refrigerator,or freezer, or used. Makes about 3 and 1/2 cups.

After making bread or sourdough pancakes, Note: To have more starter for use as a future time, replace the 2 cups removed for your recipe with an equal amount of flour and enough water to give the starter its original consistency.  Then, after it begins to work again, store it in the refrigerator or freezer until you wish to use it.

[I actually did keep mine rising and stored in a crock that was a thick walled brown pitcher.  Potato water is still used among the Amish making bread because it keeps the bread soft so that it lasts longer. I don't usually like the bread that soft on a steady diet of it but I loved the flavor of my grandmother's bread she made each week on the farm.]

Now, I'll see if the bread recipe pops up in the same set of books.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 29, 2007, 02:28:37 PM
Hi,donotremove. Did the hops work out in the mixed weather this season?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 29, 2007, 03:20:20 PM
Sourdough Bread

2 cups Sourdough Starter
3 cups all-purpose flour
1 and 1/2 tablespoon butter or margrine melted
2 T. sugar
1 t. salt
1/2 t. baking soda
Milk

Start mixing dough about 8 hours before bread is to be baked. Put Sourdough Starter in bowl. Add two cups of the flour and the remaining
ingredients except soda and milk; mix well. Add enough more flour to make a dough that is fairly stiff. Shape into a ball and put in a greased bowl. Grease top of dough. Cover and let stand in a warm place for 4 to 6 hours. Dissolve soda in a little water and knead into dough, mixing thoroughly. Put in well-greased loaf pan(9 x 5 x 3 inches). Brush with milk, cover, and let rise until doubled in bulk. Bake in  preheated hot over (400 degrees F.) for about 45 minutes.

[I hate to say this but I do not recall adding soda, does anyone else? Also  I do not remember taking this long for bread to rise but perhaps I was doing something else at the time during the rising, I have a huge bowl, earthen-glazed for this and I usually put a flour-sake towel over the top while the dough is rising. I can see where I AM going to have to do this again soon in the autumn. I've got enough on my plate right now.]


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on August 29, 2007, 03:54:29 PM
Hi, donot -

I'm referring to Underground Atlanta, which is an area downtown where there are a bunch of underground tunnels used by slaves escaping their masters in the old days.  Parts of it have now been converted to shops and restaurants - I work nearby so we go to the food court there occasionally.

http://www.underground-atlanta.com/

There is a rail system called MARTA, but it isn't very extensive and most of it is above ground.  The only two lines it has go - you guessed it - north and south and east and west.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 29, 2007, 04:48:14 PM
First, how ya'll feel about eating vegan?  Either all the way or partially.  Here's an article in today's NYT about how the raising and processing of animals uses more energy than all the modes of transportation combined:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/business/media/29adco.html

Now, Des, thanks for the clarification.  We have those underground passageways here in (downtown) Dallas.  I've never been in one so I can't tell you if there are food courts or no, but I do know that some will not use them for fear of being ambushed.  All our mass transit is above ground--rail, bus, train, and some restored streetcar lines.

Maddy, my hops came to naught.

The taste of sourdough bread is enhanced by toasting, and sourdough rolls by reheating in the oven.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on August 29, 2007, 05:48:38 PM
Does anyone know the origins of Shephard's Pie?

I made some last night, the veggie included version hubby likes. I added a can of Italian flat beans, some diced celery, a sprinkle of recently dried sage, and dried minced onion to the hamburger, and topped with mashed potatoes, a four cheese mix, and then with strips of mozarella, sprinkled with parsley, paprika and black pepper.

Growing up, Mom would sometimes make Shephard's Pie, a base of hamburger perhaps with onion in it but otherwise just meat, topped with leftover mashed potatoes. As a child, I was a mashed potato monster, and we rarely had leftovers.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 29, 2007, 08:07:28 PM
Donot, I had heard that eating animal products was an eco nightmare, but that knowledge hasn't quite translated into veganism for me, as I may have mentioned in these pages before.  I eat low on the food chain as much as possible, but occasional yogurt and a sardine tossed into my mouth (after I flap my arms together and make sea lion noises) seem necessary for full robustness and the ability to open tight jar lids. 

In terms of saving ecological damage, probably the best diet would consist of young children served (in the interests of reducing energy) rare.

 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on August 29, 2007, 08:11:57 PM
Good evening, Monsieur Fink.  Our specials tonight are Tot Tartare, ....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on August 30, 2007, 02:42:13 AM
Children?  Yuck.  Unclean!  Unclean!

No, I just meant whada ya think about vegan?  And I threw in the article because having read it is what got me to thinking about, well, closet vegans, and did Melba have any.  I am not a vegan but I'll tell you a story . . . .

Once, long ago, I was wandering the coast of California, just looking and listening and keeping a journal (this was back in the days when I thought I was a writer.)  Low on cash, I stopped at a horse boarding place that had a help wanted sign on the fence out by the road.  I worked there about six weeks.  I lived on site in a 14' x 8' box (ceilings 7') with a bed at one end and a couch at the other end. The kitchen was a sink (the water ran out on the ground) and a two ring hot plate.  No fridge.  The bathroom was an out house.

With no refrigeration, I ate veggies.  From a stand down the road a piece.  Fresh, vine ripened.  Tomatoes, onions, cukes, yellow squash, greens, beets, beans . . . just about anything you'd imagine selling at a produce stand.  Oh, and ORANGES.  Lord I love oranges and I certainly did get my fill of them while I was in California.

I'd work from dawn to late afternoon, feeding horses, cleaning stalls, exercising horses whose owners hardly ever showed up.  Just general stable work.  God, the flies, the flies.  Quitting time I'd go to my box and make damn sure there wasn't a single fly inside and take a nap.  Then I'd cook my veggie supper and read paperbacks.  Listen to the radio a while, wash up in my sink, and go to bed.

I didn't notice it until I'd been there for about a month--and was seriously thinking of quitting since the owner was a Nazi--but I had a really different "feeling" about me. My body felt lighter, somehow.  I really felt good.  Like I could leap tall buildings with a single bound.

Eventually I did quit and went to Minnesota to help my sister cut and put up hay (Fergus Falls) back when she was married to hubby #1 and was into the The Whole Eath Catalog sort of lifestyle (they had draft horses to farm with).  She fixed huge pans of roasted meat surrounded by vegetables and pots of orange pekoe with alfalfa leaves and rose hips all steeped together.  And that's when I noticed I was beginning to feel "heavy" again.

So, boys and girls, take it from 'ol uncle Donot, you can leap tall buildings or you can eat meat. I kid you not.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on August 30, 2007, 10:49:44 AM
Uncle Dono, I have heard similar tales of veganism.  They seem credible, though I think a Minnesota winter might test one's resolve.  Traditional Chinese medicine holds that red meat, in small amounts, is useful for the rigors of cold weather.  When I go for a week or so without meat, I do get that "light" feeling you speak of.  And then a return to any meat does give a bit of logy feeling.  I think it takes more energy to digest meat, which is what Atkins nuts make a big deal of, since it means you burn more calories just to digest your meaty meal.

The WHO recommends 40-60 grams of protein per day, or between 0.75 and 1 gram per kilo of lean body weight, for most people.  On a pure vegan diet, that takes some serious eating.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on August 31, 2007, 01:09:32 AM
Donotremove,

Could you not have stopped  off on the other side of the river when you visited your sister?  (I know, my brother did that regularly;he was a carpet-bagger.)  It had gotten to the point for me that I couldn't stand to be in the  house in the winter; I felt closed in, and was definitely at the point where I was quite willing to clean stalls just to get out of the house because I felt much healthier outside.  It's the fresh air. I compensated by shoveling a lot of snow, including the roof above the front porch, since I could step out there from the windows of my son's bedroom; because we had an extra fall of  heavy snow that year as I recall(and possibly two or three or more  after that, thinking back on it)but this was so the roof would not collapse.

It was a wonderful place in the summer where the taller shrubbery around the downstairs front porch came up and formed a wind-break and a sight-break, so that you put on your bikini and throw down a blanket and no one could see that you were up there sun-bathing. But winter heaves and thaws in that part of the world.  Although I did not continue shoveling there much longer (because I went back out in the world, here and there, out and about), I did continue shoveling elsewhere right up until about five years ago. The fresh air is what keeps you going.  I always was that way, even in childhood I liked to sleep outside in a hammock on an upstairs back porch until the stars would wake me up. I'd stare at them and decide it was awfully quiet but mostly cold, both of these qualities emanating from the stars; and go back inside to my nice warm bed.

My mother never could understand why I wrapped the top of the blanket around and over my head at night. Just a few days ago I remembered why we went to bed early in summer;or, so it seemed. Hating to go to bed while the sun was not quite set. But those were the war years, so we had to without putting any lights on.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito1 on September 05, 2007, 10:13:54 AM
donotremove:Whitout going into too much personal detail: Let's say I know a person who during WWII was hungry most of the time, and worked as a prisoner at a German concentration camp, the rations were scant, potatoes, cabbage and some boiled cartillages and other animal refuse. During the day his job was to fix railways after the allied bombing.

 Now the man is past his eighty years of age, his diet is mostly vegetarian due to hardship caused by history overtaking his life and pension. Simple fare, as  beans, cabbage, cornmeal, animal protein comes from very cheap small fish,or those he can fish himself,and seassonal fruits.

His diet must be balanced somehow, since his health is good, his physical strenght is that of a man many years younger, he still works a plot of land where he grows some vegetables and olives. He told me that we at the "rich" countries eat too much, that what he eats is enough, I've seen him enjoying "complicated cooking" prepared by others, that is, recipe based food that is cooked with spices and various ingredients, but he always eats just enough, no matter how much he might enjoy the dish.

He doesn't eat much pre-packaged or proscessed foods, he can't afford them.

Moral of this story: WE EAT TOO MUCH CRAP.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 06, 2007, 12:33:23 PM
Good anecdote.  I've noticed people who grow their own food are usually remarkable specimens of health, but it's hard to say how much is the food quality and how much is owing to all the physical labor and fresh air involved.

On another front, this is disturbing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/us/05popcorn.html

It's a dangerous world out there...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 06, 2007, 05:23:48 PM
Barton - Today's Atlanta Journal Constitution features articles on canning and preserving - there is a Southern Recipe Restoration Project going on at the AJC.  The articles feature a recipe for Aunt Jean's Chowchow.

Calls for green tomatoes, salt, cabbage, bell peppers onions, vinegard, sugar, celery and mustard seeds, and whole cloves.  The product is shown served on top of butter beans.  MY Aunt Ruth made Chowchow from red tomatoes.

Just an FYI... :D


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 06, 2007, 06:35:11 PM
Now, I'm curious, desdemona, does this chow-chow go on top of butter beans when they are the kind that are pole limas in the South, and still in the green stage (fresh) when cooked before the chow-chow is added;or, are these the dried butter beans, sort of yellow-beige that are then reconstituted by sorting, rinsing,soaking and cooking --and then the chow-chow is added?

Red tomatoes would then look more attractive in either case.  Green seems less appetizing --to the eyes at least; although this is a fairly common end of season recipe to make use of the green tomatoes but only some locales are used to combining green tomatoes with green cabbage.  I like to  have apple cider vinegar for any of these seasonal chow-chow picklings.  I am just sick about being too far south of the north to make spiced crab-apples to have on hand for the holidays along with pickled peaches. They just do not grow around here at this temperature.  And despite all the corn on every side, I can not approximate the corn-relish we used to have in the Midwest.   I finally gave up over five years ago, trying yet again to make it turn out by varying the ratio of vinegar, sugar,etc.

You would think, that living where so much produce is readily available, I'd run into the correct recipe at some point but the local recipe simply is not the same thing.  One would never suppose that leaving one area of the country for another that one would rarely taste something again that had  simply always been available at a supermarket.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 06, 2007, 06:41:18 PM
barton,re:#480

Thank you for remembering about us stay-at-homes who mentioned pop-corn is less trouble to make rather than the overly fake greased Theater pop-corn out at the Movies. But of course, those are the brands, exactly, that tell us they are less fattening, less salty,etc.

Time to change to peanuts or back to crackers, I suppose.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 07, 2007, 02:30:13 AM
Elportentia, thanks for telling us about that old man.  And what he says is true.  We eat too much, and we eat a lot of the wrong things.  I grew up cleaning my plate on accounta the starving children in China (I didn't question how eating ALL my food helped these unfortunante waifs.)  As a father myself, if my children complained about what was on the table or didn't want to finish their food, I told them about the Latin American kids that subsisted by picking oat seeds out of cow dung.  8)

Maddy, chow chow, to me, is green tomatoes ( My Mother never put cabbage in hers, just onions and spices.)  And you plop a big mound of it in the middle of a bowl of dried butter beans (after you've cooked them, of course) when you're just ready to dig in--you know, after you've buttered your cornbread and grabbed a fistful of green onions.  If you don't have chow chow, you plop on some canned tomatoes that you've let soak in some Lousiana hot sauce and a tad of sugar.

Oh me, it's butter beans for me tomorrow.  I might just go in the kitchen and cook up some cornbread, right now, while it's cool.

Barton, I read that popcorn thing, too.  Who'd have guessed popcorn manufacturing workers were in danger.  I'm going to check the labels for that chemical from now on.  Some producers don't use it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 07, 2007, 12:12:15 PM
Now, I'm curious, desdemona, does this chow-chow go on top of butter beans when they are the kind that are pole limas in the South, and still in the green stage (fresh) when cooked before the chow-chow is added;or, are these the dried butter beans, sort of yellow-beige that are then reconstituted by sorting, rinsing,soaking and cooking --and then the chow-chow is added?

Red tomatoes would then look more attractive in either case.  Green seems less appetizing --to the eyes at least; although this is a fairly common end of season recipe to make use of the green tomatoes but only some locales are used to combining green tomatoes with green cabbage.  I like to  have apple cider vinegar for any of these seasonal chow-chow picklings.  I am just sick about being too far south of the north to make spiced crab-apples to have on hand for the holidays along with pickled peaches. They just do not grow around here at this temperature.  And despite all the corn on every side, I can not approximate the corn-relish we used to have in the Midwest.   I finally gave up over five years ago, trying yet again to make it turn out by varying the ratio of vinegar, sugar,etc.

You would think, that living where so much produce is readily available, I'd run into the correct recipe at some point but the local recipe simply is not the same thing.  One would never suppose that leaving one area of the country for another that one would rarely taste something again that had  simply always been available at a supermarket.

Maddy, the article about chow-chow explained that they used to make it to keep tomatoes from going to waste here, because the weather changes from blazing hot to nice and cool to cold snap rather quickly.  So, they would have lots of green tomatoes that would be wasted and that what they did with them late in the season.  I really love green tomatoes - they're very tart, so you get an altogether different flavor.  I grew up in Texas, and I don't think most Texans are familiar with the concept of cooking with green tomatoes (well, maybe now since Fried Green Tomatoes came out.)  There's plenty of time there to let your tomatoes ripen, hence my Aunt Ruth's chow-chow was red, again, no cabbage either.  I would swear she had a little bit of corn in there too.

I LOVE spiced peaches and have never had a homemade one.  Do you have to pressure cook them to make them??  I've only done fruit preserves.

Speaking of - I have a nice pear tree in my new backyard with enough pears to make up a nice  batch of pear preserves, but the dang things don't seem to want to EVER ripen.  They got big a couple of months back and about three weeks ago I was sure they were ready to at least cut up, so I picked a couple and I swear you could use them to kill someone they are so rock hard.  I keep thinking, "okay, this weekend I'm doing pears" - but every weekend they still don't seem close to ready, even though the skin is now turning more yellow.  I just don't want to have to use a hack saw to cut them up.  I'm considering doing a batch with some ginger in it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 07, 2007, 12:16:25 PM
Oh, also wanted to second my fellow Texan donotremove's remarks about piling on with the beans or peas just about anything you can think of.  Granny always cooked a huge pot of homegrown black-eyed peas, manna from heaven in and of themselves, and she'd fried some little hot water corn cakes.  We'd split them open, then put the peas on top, add chow-chow, fresh-sliced onion, and sliced  beefsteak tomatoes, all homegrown.  Boil some homegrown corn to add to the plate, maybe serve with chicken and dumplings or roast beef - a feast to die for!  Last up - peach or fresh boysenberry cobbler.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on September 07, 2007, 12:23:18 PM
Here's what I make with my green tomatoes....delicious
Green Tomato Pie

Filling:
3 cups Green tomatoes -- sliced
3 tablespoons Flour
1 tablespoons Fresh lemon juice
1 teaspoon Cinnamon
1 1/3 cups Sugar
1/4 teaspoon Salt

Chilled Butter
1 9 " double crust pastry

Combine filling ingredients in a bowl and pour into a pastry lined pie plate. Dot with butter.  Cover with top crust. Pierce crust with fork to allow steam to escape.
Bake 30-40 minutes at 400 degrees.  

( I don't like overly dark pie crust, so after 10 minutes, I cover the edges of my crust with foil.  This keeps it golden and flaky.  If the top of the pie looks done before the filling starts to bubble, you may also want to cover that with foil.)

Also, if you are making this along with a bunch of other pies to take to an event, it is nice to make the piercings on the top in the shape of a tomato.  Looks nice, and guests know exactly what pie they are getting.
 
 



 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 07, 2007, 01:02:28 PM
Des, if that pear tree is a Barlett, those pears will be hard and crisp till hell freezes over.  But it is a bit early to use them yet.  Believe me, when they are ripe, some will fall from the tree (but they are reluctant to do that, even.  Those pears just love being pears on a tree!!).  Anyway, Bartletts are the best for pear preserves.  Cook 'em slow with sugar (substitute a bit of light brown sugar for some of the sugar in the recipe--for color,) cinnamon, and all spice (or nutmeg), and salt till they are translucent.  Oh yummers.  I envy you your pear tree.  I've got one but it hasn't learned it is a pear tree yet.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 07, 2007, 01:22:43 PM
donot -

Mine's a d'angou pear tree.  I'm so darn proud of that little tree!  Somebody has kept it properly pruned over the years so all of the pears are practically at ground level!

I made preserves with bosc pears and sugar with a touch of lemon juice a few years back - what a hit they were.  I'm feeling adventurous with this new batch I'm going to do, so thanks for the recipe - sounds really good!

So when do you think they'll be ready, donot? 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 07, 2007, 01:27:04 PM
Donot, while we're talking pears, I just want to say that cooked pears are such a delicacy and they seem to be so overlooked in favor of apples.  I made a pear crisp last year, again with bosc pears, and oh my gosh was it ever fantastic.  They have such a fine, delicate taste to them!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 07, 2007, 02:25:38 PM
Des, I hear you on the pear crisp.  And the neglect of pears over apples.  Camelize pears for a delicious sauce over pork chops, bananas, vanilla ice cream (Blue Bell,) or camelized pear cobbler (Mmmm good, whether that dough is crisp on top or soft, down in the juice.)  Talk about lick the bowl . . . .

I don't know anything about d'angou pears.  But pears, generally, are a fall crop.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 07, 2007, 02:54:29 PM
That's what's great about pear preserves - you can heat them up and serve them over ice cream in addition to having them for breakfast with toast or biscuits.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 07, 2007, 03:30:10 PM
Another good and easy breakfast with any kind of preserves or marmalade, is to make a large bowl of oatmeal from the round box in the store, water or milk, oats, a sprinkle of salt, and microwave. Then add a big spoonful of your favorite preserves or marmalade, stir it in and eat it up. Hubby made some the other day with orange marmalade. It was delish!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on September 07, 2007, 05:48:32 PM
Sorry to have been gone so long...


Barton, historically many of the greatest chefs have been men.  Now we godd start a long discussion about discrimination and all that, but I'm only saying it to point out that you don;t have to be embarrased to be a man that knows how to use a flat iron...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on September 07, 2007, 05:49:27 PM
Weezo,

I see you hanging out here so it seems like a good place to ask you about updating some of the polls in other topics?  Need some suggestions?  :)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 07, 2007, 07:07:07 PM
Trojan,

When I accepted the offer to become the poll manager, it was ONLY to do the polls on the book forums. Only Fiction and American History seemed interested, and I'm not sure why the hoopla on American History except for the fact that I enjoyed a book that others didn't. Oh, well.

The person to address for the other polls is Liquid Silver.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on September 07, 2007, 07:09:02 PM
thanks Weezo


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 09, 2007, 11:00:22 AM
Trojanhorse,

All my brothers cooked(sort of. Pete might wiggle out by buying pizza for everybody. Customs in their part of the country might vary from place to place, also in the background of their wives. As his first two wives had Mexican ancestry, one Chinese from the Philippines,and now a South Korean, that's a wide range of cooking.)  Our next brother lived on Maui for about twenty or twenty-five years,would send small cookbooks by which I learned how ribs might approximate not having a fire-pit but I skipped the poi. His cuisine was big on luau, and until his children were out of school and grown up enough to marry and sometimes relocate, he had a conventional Hawaiian amah raising them,their diet contined to be the native Hawaiian dishes.

Last but not least was our bachelor brother, who died just about two years agos.  At a period of time when we both happened to live in the same lovely Italian neighborhood , which he preferred after he returned from Europe( in service Presley era, you might say) by the first half of the 1960s, he lived next to an Italian butcher, and his home-made cuisine  worked from there. Dining out was another matter entirely.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 09, 2007, 11:05:21 AM
weezo, you must tell desdemona and donotremove, how the butter beans change flavor in Amish country because they take on the taste as an accompaniment to what dnr calls pulled-pork, when the Amish roast a pig to sell barbecued pork sandwiches to raise funds for charitable good works.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 09, 2007, 11:10:45 AM
donotremove,re:#484

The Rotel brand, which I think may be Louisiana, turns out our tomatoes in the can with the peppers already in there and the seasoning you describe.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 09, 2007, 12:10:03 PM
Desdemona and donotremove,

The Anjou pear is a fooler, often found in stores in an  unripe state, they will ripen in the dark  in paper bags . (My favorite is the Comice which they do not like to carry in stores because they bruise easily. So I only find them every few years.)

The Paper Bag as a concept points to another way of handling green tomatoes, although I did pickle the smaller in jars that went into the pantry, after frying up slices (which by the way is done in cracker meal, rather than seasoned flour, when in New Jersey where they use OTC crackers, short for Old Trenton Crackers, because English New Jerseyeans like their fried tomatoes for breakfast. With one stipulation, they perceive tomatoes as red and are not inclined to like the idea of green tomatoes. Not even as relish. They are also not inclined to can but go to the beach instead. They have their own peculiar customs that account for this, although almost every home owner grows Jersey tomatoes in the back yard).

At the end of the growing season in the Midwest, other than a few jars of pickled, large not yet ripened tomatoes were brought in well before frost and individually wrapped in torn squares of newspaper as if they were Christmas ornaments and packed in cardboard boxes taken to the cellar, which you checked on and removed as they ripened, as I did many experimental varieties of tomato to see how they performed by comparison. Italian varieties and some French besides the Brandywines; and the Thessaloniki from Greece is reputed to have the longest shelf life.

Donotremove is the man with the Pickled Peach recipe. Once again, please, stand up and take a bow.

In other words,because of the vinegar and sugar content in pickling, your peaches and pears are preserved in the same way. As plain canned fruit without vinegar, they cook in the jars in the hot water canner but because they are soft fruit(as are tomatoes), they have a shorter period of time in the canner for both quarts and pints. I will have to check the Ball recommendation for you.   The pears are placed in a basin(after washing)with a little acidulated water, either a small amount of vinegar or  lemon, to cover as, as you pare each pear.

I happened to move into a Midwestern-German farmhouse the month that Jack Kerouac died in 1969, too late (or too early) to garden but just clean out the house, clean up the old Edwardian style flower gardens, and discover what was in the barn and around the house, and in the meadow.  My friends did likewise and I was quickly told about the two pear trees in the meadow which grew German prefered Seckel pears. In the Midwest these ripen at the same time you are canning tomatoes, so from then on this drove me fairly crazy handling both.

When I began studying Mandarin language during the Fall semester, after Kissinger had made the trip to Peking, this was an interesting overlap(especially when the end of the following semester from Winter had exams that coincided with Spring planting season). But as a result of studies, I was a member of the US-China Peoples Friendship Association and did much cooking to raise money for delegations going to the PRC, often with Asian produce grown in my own garden. I soon found that the canned pears, some of which I had time to pickle in small jam or jelly size containers as pear-chutney came in handy as the base for sweet-sour sauce, to which red peppers,and citrus rind are added; since you need these when serving two egg-rolls to every customer at three-course Chinese dinners usually for about 100 guests when we had films and visitors who came back from China, like the lady who had worked there for the YWCA, or Orville Schell,or Esther Peterson who first went to work for FDR and was still working for Jack Kennedy in Consumer Affairs.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 12, 2007, 01:18:51 AM
You've got to read this!

http://dinersjournal.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/29/showing-hospitality-even-if-some-dont-feel-too-hospitable/#comments

"Note that Ms Chase said “if I had neighbors they’d be so surprised…” I am sure this was an intentional slap couched in an innocuous compliment, an art prefected in polite southern circles."

That was my reaction as well, as soon as I grasped the Surprise! and scanned through real fast to get to the comments.  I had posted originally when Leah Chase began to rebuild our ruined restaurant, and all of us posting were interested in giving our reminisciences of New Orleans and where we had our best meals for which we were roundly castigated by one particularly negative thinker who thought it was wrong of us to plan on the bright side for the economic resurrection.  I believe, I said my best meal was probably at home and gave the recipe that someone mentions in the comments at present: Shrimp Clemenceau, which is my favourite dish that I never fail to fix during Mardi Gras Season, which I also believe is when we talked about the food of New Orleans as we knew it, and the articles had shown Dooky and Leah Chase checking out the restaurant and what they would have to do to reopen and make a living again.

You've got to grasp that one person's interpretation that Leah Chase comment is,"an art prefected in polite southern circles." (and you will notice in an accompanying link that she was indeed raised very politiely by the nuns of the convent schools of our day, which are particularly indigenous to New Orleans) is also at the same time in another person's view simply "telling it like it is".

If the poster  thinks this is an art perfected, well, then the Black and Colored population of Louisiana have been past masters of it for a long, long time.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito1 on September 12, 2007, 10:43:37 AM
does anyone have a good recipe for food for thought?...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito1 on September 12, 2007, 10:44:11 AM
...vegetarian, please.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 12, 2007, 11:20:35 AM
maddie -

Didn't you say once that you went to Ursuline Academy as a girl?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 12, 2007, 10:48:14 PM
desdemona,

No, I lived on Rue Ursulines between Bourbon and Royale.  My husband's family came from New Orleans.  He took his surgical training there, following basic-training for the Korean war, despite the family's status as conscientious objectors.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 12, 2007, 10:55:08 PM
does anyone have a good recipe for food for thought?...


Yes, lots of beets, buttered beets,pickled beets, Harvard beets, borscht. Or, maybe it keeps you younger so that you don't forget as much of your thought. I think it has to do with the nucleic acid in beets. In any case, I grew enough of them per growing season so that it was no problem eating them two or three times a week, as in cold salad,etc. but this taste for them kind of runs in cycles.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 13, 2007, 11:05:31 AM
Incidentally, after reading your post on me this morning,I think that I should clarify why I grew them. I was raising a boy  of about 9 going on 10 years of age at the time. That should be enough said, in regard to what I was living on at Engels-haus. The recently deceased occupant was Johannes Engel. After his death, his housekeeper left the last two acres of apple farm and moved to a village slightly to the north where my sisters went to live until quite recently.

In order to prevent certain changes in the landscape, Engels will had been devised in such a way that neither the Lutheran church nor  two other legatees, locals unknown to me, would have to agree about how their legacy would be used.  Somehow a development company got ahold of it and thereby had a tax write-off allowed by law for ten years.

The place was pointed out to me by someone with whom I was not acquainted but was a mutual friend's acquaintance when they both had been working on their masters degree in art at university. We met when it was time to look at the place which she suggested because she was going to be teaching in a high school to which she would have to drive but at least it was closer for her than living in the city.  It turned out that she was trying out a pre-performance as Cate Blanchett but being Dutch had a lantern jaw and lacked the physical or mental piquancy of CB in the role for her very own attempt at: Notes from a Scandal.

She lasted all of a year, whether the school fired her(?), I was not aware of her proclivities until she was gone; she was a distinct drag while there and, with no social-consciousness, had inconvenienced us with her thoughtlessness in regard to bills unpaid for her half of utilities,etc.

As to the nucleic acid in the beets, I had been left some cookbooks (one on minerals that was very interesting) by a friend of mine leaving for India whose mother was a Serbian who gave birth to her in a refugee camp in Austria in '48 before they were later allowed to enter the US.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 13, 2007, 11:09:22 AM
Beets?  Really?

Re

"I think it has to do with the nucleic acid in beets...."

Everything that is composed of cells has nucleic acids.   Everything from potatoes to hot dogs to dog food has nucleic acids.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 14, 2007, 12:52:38 AM
He asked for brain food....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 14, 2007, 07:44:01 AM
Maddie,

The brain requires a heavy dose of protein. Beets are not high on the list of protein foods, ergo, beets cannot be considered a "brain food". For reasons I can no longer remember, I've always considered oatmeal to be a "brain food". It does contain more protein than beets, and is a good start or end of a day.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on September 14, 2007, 11:41:30 AM
The ultimate morning brain food....yogurt with nuts and honey.  The honey jump starts the system, yogurt furnishes protein which feeds the brain and takes a while to digest, and nuts are said to be the perfect brain food.  The nuts provide a mood lift as well.  (If mid-morning hunger is a problem, serve alongside one or two slices of whole grain toast, and you're good to go.)

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/aug2006/ohnuts.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 14, 2007, 12:28:48 PM
I want to make my 600th posting today, for some reason, so I'll just add a note of agreement that does nothing to advance the discussion.  I often have both yogurt and nuts somewhere in my breakfast.  Almonds have really dropped in price, too, due to a lot of acreage being added to the nation's almond groves after the Atkins fad got everyone excited about protein.  Production is way up.

But they have to be toasted.  Raw almonds taste like woodchips.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 14, 2007, 12:44:34 PM
My son thinks toasted almonds taste like wood chips.  He once said he'd just as soon go outside and pull the bark off a tree and eat it when it comes to even thinking about eating almonds.  I love almonds and chocolate.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 14, 2007, 12:45:38 PM
You know, this reminds me of something totally ridiculous that was going thru my mind recently while driving - why do you have to toast almonds but other nuts, like walnuts and pecans, are find straight out of the shell?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 14, 2007, 01:06:56 PM
Des, I don't know why we have to toast almonds but not walnuts and pecans (although some toast them as well) but I have a hunch those French had something to do with it.  :)

And think of it, "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire . . .".  And why do they call them chestnuts, anyway.  The first eaters pounded on their chest shouting "boy that's good"?  I like hazelnuts to be toasted first.  And now that I think of it, why Hazel?

And, does oatmeal actually stick to your ribs?

Okay, I'm done. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 14, 2007, 01:45:56 PM
Can't answer the nutty questions, but I know that peanuts taste better after they are roasted or boiled in salt water, than if shelled and eaten raw. Soybeans have a nuttier taste after roasting.

As to oatmeal "sticking to your ribs", I think it actually goes through you pretty quickly. I notice that unless I eat a large bowl of it (two of those premeasured packs, or a half cup of the stuff in the round box), I am hungry again in a hour - as it is pushed out all the hubris from the day before.

BTW, I never got back to y'all on how I fixed that roast I spilled too much rosemary on. I ate some with horseradish, and that was good. Then I froze the rest. When it came out of the freezer, it no longer had the strong rosemary taste to it, and was good eaten cold with potato salad.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 14, 2007, 04:55:17 PM
Required viewing after this chat:  Christopher Guest's "Nuts Rant" in the fine film, "Best in Show."

Almonds need to be toasted (and lightly salted) because otherwise they taste like crap, i.e. woodchips or tree bark.  Maybe it's because SIT DOWN BEFORE YOU READ THIS

almonds are not actually nuts.

They are stonefruit seeds, closely related to the pits of peaches and plums, and had to be cultivated for quite some time by ancient growers before they were even edible.

Walnuts and pecans and such are actual nuts, and so nature designed them to be mouth-watering.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 15, 2007, 03:57:25 AM
Barton, you mean the ancient growers fiddled around till the fruit disappeared?!?  Leaving only the seed?!?  The hell you say.  Those fruit murdering bastards.  Any idea what almond fruit looked and tasted like?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 15, 2007, 11:17:58 AM
Donot,

when you achieve Hero Member status, as I have, these pesky questions of original almond fruity conformation will somehow resolve themselves.

Really, I have no idea.  Perhaps I will google this, if the spirit moves me.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 15, 2007, 11:37:29 AM
Barton, you mean my inquiring mind will at last rest when I reach Hero status?  Praise the gods.  That damned thing has gotten me into more trouble than I care to remember.

I was one father that got excited as hell when my children got old enough to ask "why."  Alas, they soon tired of it and I would hear, "Dad, Dad, I only want to know how to spell it not everything connected to it back to the flood" as often as not.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 15, 2007, 09:08:36 PM
But,they learned that from you; it's obvious.  We should ask martinbeck if they have access in South America to the wonderful confectionary made by nuns in Spain and France from almonds that are coated in sugary patties (not like pralines)just one of those things that they keep as a secret recipe, box up and sell to keep the convent running.  I wrote my convent memoirs for weezo when she was kidding me about Catholic high schools but that was the night, lucky for me, when the Escape from Elba crashed and that was that. So I was saved by the crash.

Hazelnuts make excellent cakes, whether they are connected to what is known as a hazel-tree is something else again.  Having  that great aunt by that name, I understand that in the tradition of her father's European home it was understood that the hazel is used for "magic" of various sorts. Probably Robert Burns would confirm that somewhere in his total output.

That is of course how weezo comes by that oatmeal. I became confirmed in how to make it with a spurtle while living in Mercer county, New Jersey where the Scots arrived early on in the 17th.century before any more hoopla took place, they raised their long horn cattle. I learned to add oats to everything imaginable, which only puts on weight, but same can be said for turning out better than average scones(please pronounce like "guns" or "on-ions". Oat meal is usually eatten with whole wheat toast for the best effect of orange marmalade; whereas I stir brown sugar into the oatmeal make from the grain and not the flake before adding cold milk. Dry oatmeal or oat flour is added to "collops", when blending  them into what the Scots refer to as "minced meat" and we call it "ground beef.  Since I already went through the high protein diet as a dancer, I stand by my original contention which is that I am not concerned about the protein derived at any other time of the day what so ever as it does  not necessarily disallow you to put beets on the menu as well for the memory lengthening effect that their component chemistry has in the diet.

If anybody else has noticed or begins to recognize how much these forums are beginning to remind them of how things sounded at the nytimes.com,  we've long since passed the half-way mark.
diet


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 15, 2007, 10:23:42 PM
Maddie,

I saw my name in your last post, but have no idea how you came to your conclusions. Oatmeal is not a passion with me, I was only commenting on someone's question about it "sticking to your ribs" which is a rather common expression for wholesome foods in general. My favorite hot cereal was always Instant Ralston, a whole wheat cereal which seems not to be made anymore. I really prefer that to oatmeal. I do not add oatmeal to any other foods, except when I am making raisin oatmeal cookies, usually around Christmas time or in the winter. A couple of big, thick raisin oatmeal cookies makes a good breakfast when you don't have time or inclination to sit down and eat.

Rather than oatmeal, when my boys were growing up and I wanted to fortify what I was making, I added plain wheat germ. Much higher protein content. It went into meatloaf, most deserts, and in the crunchy honey version, was breakfast cereal with raisins and milk.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 15, 2007, 10:43:46 PM
Misunderstood. I thought you were saying that you liked at least two bowls of oatmeal -- to not feel hungry again.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on September 15, 2007, 11:55:03 PM
Weezo if you Google Hard to Find Grocer the first link is their web site.Under Aisle 2 Hot Cereals page 2 is Hot Ralston and it doesn't look that expensive though don't know shipping costs.The site falls under a larger site named Hometown Favorites.I also found a Ralcorp holdings out of St. Louis that lists Ralston as one of their products in 2003.The Grocer site though has all sorts of good stuff.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 16, 2007, 12:27:08 AM
Bosox,

Thanks for the tip! Unfortunately, although I like it, hubby does not, but I think I will check it out anyway, just for a little variety. I don't like Cream of Wheat.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on September 16, 2007, 12:39:08 AM
I see that the Kraft Green Goddess dressing is cheaper than at The Vermont Country Store.I saw Fizzies which I had forgotten about.Some of the more offbeat Underwood spreads and one "Sweet Sue Chicken in a Can" which is indeed a whole chicken in a can!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 16, 2007, 06:51:59 AM
Bosox,

I remember that Sweet Sue chicken in a can! And, I remember fizzies. Oh, how foods have changed over the years!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 16, 2007, 04:08:41 PM
I see that the Kraft Green Goddess dressing is cheaper than at The Vermont Country Store.I saw Fizzies which I had forgotten about.Some of the more offbeat Underwood spreads and one "Sweet Sue Chicken in a Can" which is indeed a whole chicken in a can!

I didn't know that about Sweet Sue, which I became used to buying in flat cans like tuna, but it figures because they were out of Iowa(unless I'm thinking of Sue Bee, the honey people?) where Chickens were regularly canned at my grandmother's until the Amana people came up with that invented freezer, now "the girls" just gut and dress so many more chickens than ever before to last out the winter  as the family increases. This pastime extended all the way to Madison,Wisconsin, in Dane County, home of Dick Chaney's alma mater(sort of)or at least Lynn's, as well as Matt Rothschild's The Progressive. I had a girlfriend who went back to school there and during the Sixties, the Dept.of Ag. Food program for welfare, families living under a certain income while raising children, received among other things at least a couple of cans of canned whole chicken, along with the dry supplies of food staples, and the inevitable Velveta-like processed cheese.  She(not Lynn but my friend) didn't like to cook; but loved to clean.  So when I went to visit her, I would do the cooking and free her up for house-cleaning(her grandmother was of the greater Austro-Hungarian Empire experts in this art of home-making).

I had a favourite cereal as well but that hasn't come up at The Vermont Country Store as yet If it doesn't soon, I will forget the name but I think it was Malt O'Meal. I no longer have the storage space to buy it by the case from the only supplier I ever discovered.  It has a nice grainy sweet flavor with flecks of the outer layer of the grain, that we used to eat before walking to school in the 1940s through snowdrifts from the gigantic blizzards of that era.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on September 16, 2007, 04:23:16 PM
Hard to Find Grocer has four different kinds of Malt-O-Meal under Hot Cereals.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 16, 2007, 05:57:41 PM
Wow! I just saw this.

"People may say what they like about the decay of Christianity;the religious system that produced green Chartreuse can never really die." Saki

I love reading his stories, used to read them to my great aunt for her.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 17, 2007, 11:39:46 AM
I remember The Monkey's Paw, a classic short story.

Never eaten monkey's paws, however, so I may be flirting with non-germane posting here.  I think the little tiny bones might be a problem.  Perhaps one could pressure-cook the paws?





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: kitinkaboodle on September 17, 2007, 11:51:24 AM
Have eaten chicken feet, chewed 'em anyway (visiting Hong Kong  -- when in Rome and all that -- tried the bird's nest too :P ) figure monkey paws couldn't be too much harder...just the imagery of a cute bitty monkey is the hard part.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 17, 2007, 05:44:51 PM
The chicken feet are the intrinsic necessary ingredient to a Chinese who is about to make Chicken soup.  You can have the rest of the chicken but without the feet, it just isn't the same. I never tried it out but have possibly unknowing eatten some, as the stock used in cooking other dishes, in the many restaurants that opened in the vicinity of Princeton and Rocky Hill by the 1990s.  This is the period when the cooking became very authentic. For one thing, the new residents, who had been gradually moving to the locality, were now of such numbers that you simply could expect to see chicken feet in the poultry counter at McGaffery's.

I must look the next time that I get to Shady Maple and see if the Meung tribesmen in the butcher shop have put them in to meet a demand in my new location.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 22, 2007, 08:45:46 AM
Yesterday was an excruciating cooking day.(as I told harrie) Today is the fast day.

But, yesterday it was three hours of brisket, which had to be  awaited from the Amish butcher just short of two weeks, as he only gets one per week and I called too late for the beginning of the holiday because he had already promised the brisket  he was about to receive.

I always forget how inexpensive it is in comparison to other cuts; nontheless, I left him with the Taffelspitz.

Basically, you lay it on a base of sliced onions prepared in advance by sauteing in 2 tablespoons of vegetable oil with some garlic and powdered ginger which will stick to the pan if you  don't flip them with a fork occasionally, over low heat, covered until a nice brown. But you can add water later after you remove the onions to your roasting pan for the brisket and put the pan aside in which the onions were prepare, let it cool until you want to add some water heated on the stove as an extra base to the gravy.

Slices of cored apples go over the top of the brisket, once it is placed on the onions. And then a sprinkle of about 1/2 cup dried cranberries (or, as they are called nowadays,"craisins"). A cup of dried,pitted, plum-prunes are tucked in the holes left when you decored the apple ( and around the sides).  Do the same with dried apricots. I could not find any West Coast (non-import) locally, so opened a can which had just the right amount of apricots lifted out of the juice: 1 cup, over the top of the brisket and tucked around. Approximately two cups of chicken or beef stock is added, to cover the brisket; in other words, if it takes more than two cups, by all means cover the brisket and that is why that saved gravy base from the sauteed onion in the set aside pan comes in handy because the flavor has been brought out from the seasoning.

If not you opt for covering with apple juice or apple cider. I was strongly tempted to try covering it in ginger-beer. Perhaps another time.

Also, although I was originally in the mood for serving it with pirogi stuffed with mashed potatoes, I decided to use thinly sliced potatoes,salted and peppered, a cup of sliced shallots,with another layer of Roma apple in between layers of potatoes. Pressed down a little bit and then some heated half and half with a large dollop of German grained brown mustard(with the obvious seeds) stirred into it as it heats
slowly is eventually poured over the pan in which you roast the potato and apple.  This is a more zesty version of what the Amish call: Himmel und Erb. Heaven and Earth.    Minus the ham,in this case. Ps: Ordinarily, these two dishes would not be served together in Orthodox traditional food laws of milchig and fleishig separated to different menus

Last but now least, you serve Honey Cake,the kind that is made with that cup of black coffee, you let sit until just warm so that it doesn't curdle the three eggs that go into the cake flavored with lemon juice and lemon rind and one cup of  honey(in addition to the sugar!), which is why it is really difficult to get these cakes to bake all the way through unless you do them very slowly and keep an eye on them, even though this cake is baked in a tube pan.  This is strictly the Ashkenasi menu. Earlier in the ten days,I made a plum tarte, which would have been too much fruit if served as the dessert after fruited-brisket.

But it is very good with North African chicken, stuffed with preserved lemon, roasted (although this is a tagine recipe and something my niece likes to make in California with lemons prepared at the prime lemon season). That is the Sephardi cuisine for the beginning of the New Year for Autumn.  The Autumnal Equinox is tomorrow.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on September 23, 2007, 09:18:28 AM
I couldn't decide...Movie Club, Food Matters....Food Matters won the coin toss.  Plus, I've posted enough non-Movie Club content in there already.  From today's Page Six:

DAVID Lynch is as weird as his movies. The quirky director of "Blue Velvet" became so obsessed with finding out what was in the "ding-danged good" milkshakes at a Big Boy in Burbank, "he jumped into the Dumpster and found the mix packaging," Jordan Ladd, who appeared in Lynch's "Inland Empire," tells Dune magazine. "All of the ingredients ended with '-zine' or '-ate.' That freaked him out. He broke the habit."


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 23, 2007, 10:11:34 AM
Had a long chat with my baby sister, and, after I lauded her for her performance in a local choral group that she went me a DVD of, the conversation turned to food. She takes her turn as cook of the day at a senior center, where she truly enjoys cooking interesting foods based on the donations. She is popular with the oldsters who come to the center for their once a day meal, and she approaches the task with more than a "meat and potatoes" outlook.

We were talking about the Pa. Dutch food that we grew up on, and especially shoo-fly pie. She says she rarely make it since molasses, which are not generally part of the cuisine in her part of the country (northwest coast), and costs $12 for a small bottle, which I can get for just a couple of dollars here, where it is a staple in the southern diet.

Years ago I tried an online grocery service for non-perishable foods, but the quantities were more suited to a large family than an aging couple. If someone knows of a basic grocery service online that I can use to drop-ship some molasses to my sister, I will be appreciative. Otherwise, I will buy some here, package it up, and pay the shipping. She has also made a request for Lebanon Bologna, which I can get sometimes at a local grocery store, but have no idea how to pack it to keep it fresh for a cross country trip. I probably need to research a source that will send it already packaged for survival.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 23, 2007, 01:22:38 PM
weezo,

Lebanon Bologna is the stuff my grandmother called "summer sausage" on the farm where it was served on a platter during the summer months with home-baked bread, and perhaps cheese, and garden lettuce salad in bacon-dressing, and pies for dessert.  It could be served as the prelude to actual mid-day dinner, which is the custom of farmers; or it might be for the lighter evening supper. I have to suppose that my grandfather made the summer sausage as he did other sausages, but perhaps he did not? 

It does however actually come from Lebanon, Pennsylvania. I will see if there is an outlet facility at their plant, as there are for such goodies as Bell and Evans Chickens up at Fredericksburg,Pa.    I was just looking at what the local purveyor sells from Stoltzfus the Butcher in Intercourse,Pa. because they do major meat gifts (how far I do not know because it became a custom of many people to send holiday gifts of meat and/or cheese or anniversary gifts to relatives right in the community. I never paid particular attention to the Lebanon Bologna because it is usually in the deli case;but I imagine that whichever one of the suppliers would expect you to order a certain weight of uncut sausage. Gosh, this is making me hungry.

I am surprised thought that ordinary Brer Rabbit molasses, light and/or dark, as well as same Grandmother's Molasses, the too main commercial brands in the US are not on your sister's supermarket shelves (although there are others, unsulphured dark blackstrap molasses which I always used for Shoofly Pie,therapeutically, and is very unlike the local Amish preference for the lighter sweeter pies which inevitably have something like corn syrup so that the pie is the flavor of Pecan pie without the pecans!  I don't know if the Goods Company sells molasses; they may,as they railroad their sweeteners out of here in tanker cars!

Get back at'cha, as soon as I find out the details.  oh,ps: for the tourists, shoofly as turned into pies with chocolate, and some other flavors over the years, sold regularly at Miller's bakerly to busloads of tourists and those who come by car to eat at Miller's Smorgasbord, likewise at places like Plain and Fancy, or just the local Bird in Hand Bakery as well as Smuckers Restaurant and large scale Motel on "motel run"  through Amish country.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 23, 2007, 01:35:34 PM
weezo,
So far, so good: Lebanon B. at $13.95 plus shipping.

http://www.stoltzfusmeats.com/products.php?cat=10


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 23, 2007, 01:38:59 PM
weezo,

Here's the pie.
http://www.millerssmorgasbord.com/bakery.htm


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 23, 2007, 01:44:20 PM
weezo,

More bologna but direct from Seltzers which is the brand name for Lebanon Bologna; this is their Outlet on-line.

http://www.seltzersbologna.com/StoreFront/IAFDispatcher


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 23, 2007, 01:51:37 PM
Maddie,

The price seemed high, per pound, but when I checked the page, the $13.95 was for 2 lbs. And it is uncut. Baby Sister can cut it as thin or thick as she chooses. I may order some for myself. I notice they also have ring bologna, which I hadn't thought of in years! I generally buy kielbasa insteadd for veggie and sausage skillet mixes. But, it would be fun to get some ring bologna and see what hubby thinks of it. He likes mild sausauge.

Oh, another thing that Baby Sister asked about was peanut butter pie. I hadn't a clue how to make one. Is it done with a layer of peanut butter under a cake filling like Tandy Takes? Oh, those wonderful Tandy Takes. When we were in Reading to bury Mom, we found them in the Screpsi shop where we bought those famous sandwiches, and munched them all on our way back to our hubby's at the motels. I've never seen them sold outside the Reading area.

Mom used King's Corn Syrup for her shoo fly pies, but I prefer Grandma's Molasses. Baby Sister prefers Brer Rabbit molasses - says she's never seen or tried Grandma's. Of course, I prefer wet bottom shoo fly pie!

I just saw your link for Selzers. They are quite a bit higher in price. They want $30 for a shoo fly pie and don't even say if it's wet bottom or dry bottom. Of course it comes in a decorative tin, but shoo fly pie is fairly inexpensive to make. Cheaper than a fruit pie!




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 23, 2007, 02:24:02 PM
weezo,

Here is Goods at Honey Brook for Golden Barrel

http://www.goldenbarrel.com/store/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=3

the next is Bird in Hand (or, Grandma Smuckers) for the tinned pies:

https://store.bird-in-hand.com/store_2/shop.htm?category=76

this reminds me, was it des who wanted to know about canning dill pickles?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 23, 2007, 02:25:49 PM
barton, where ever you are, at the movies or into the movies, this is where you can get that popcorn popper:

http://www.amishmart.com/stevetop-poppers.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 23, 2007, 05:21:39 PM
Maddie,

Thanks so much for the links. Hubby says we will order one bologna for Baby Sister and one for ourselves. I told him he doesn't have to slice it thin, which is usually how we buy it in the grocery store. It is also good cut in thick slices. Best with swiss cheese, but YMMV.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 24, 2007, 01:05:39 PM
Are you talking about the ring-bologna or the Lebanon?

Although people eat the garlic version ring-bologna out of hand around here in their lunch boxes, where I come from it is usually the unsmoked but sometimes the smoked that is cooked German style with sauerkraut and potatoes and rye bread and mustard, etc. (remember when Jello was the desert?).  Well, you can probably do that with Kielbasa too, as the Polish do on the south side of town from the Germans on the north side of town, although people kind of move around given time and mix it up, forming new and interesting coalitions.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on September 24, 2007, 01:32:34 PM
Maddie,

Now that you mention it, I don't think my mom cooked ring bologna. There was some sausage that she did with potatoes and sauerkraut tho, probably a german sausage although he could have been polish since it was a polish family that ran the grocery store, although she bought most of her meats from a man who came round in a van once a week.

The ring bologna was cut in slices and served with small pieces of cheeses, on Ritz crackers for parties.

Lebanon bologna was usually served in sandwiches, rather thick sliced, and preferred to the regular, somewhat tasteless garlic bologna that was cheaper.

There was a meat processing plant in Reading when I was growing up, and among other things, they made Berks Hot Dogs, which I have never found a good substitute for. I dislike the artificially red hot dogs that are so favored in Virginia, and don't like the ones that bouf up when they are cooked. I buy Oscar Meyers since they are as close to Berks as I have found. I remember the Wienermobile being a regular in Reading parades when I was a child.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 24, 2007, 02:10:04 PM
I swear, someone in here wanted the recipe for putting up cukes as pickles. I thought it was des?   I was reminded of it when Joan Nathan was asked about it by someone named Jenna in the days as Rosh Hoshanna was about to begin and Joan answered in the nytimes.com Dining and Wine area by saying, "Here is a small batch recipe from Jewish Cooking in America".

Kosher Dill Pickles, adapted from Jewish Cooking in America

2 cups hot water,
1 tablespoon kosher salt
4 to 5 cucumbers, about 5 inches long
2 heads dill
1 clove garlic, sliced
1 teaspoon mixed pickling spice

1. in a saucepan bring the water to a boil. Add the salt and boil for 2 minutes. Cool for 5 minutes. Let the mixture cool for several hours (I swear, that is exactly how she put it. Cool for five; cool for several hours).
2. Wash the cucumbers and dry with paper towels.
3. Put 1 dill head in the bottom of a sterilized quart jar.
4. Pack the cucumbers into the shoulder of the jar. Add the garlic and the pickling spices. Cover with the remaining dill. Add salt and hot water to within 1 inch of the top of the jar and keep partially covered for 2 to 3 days.
5. When the jar starts to bubble, let it bubble a day or two, removing the scum daily. Then seal and store in a dry, cool place for about 3 weeks before using. Refrigerate after opening. The pickles should last several weeks after opening, in the refrigerator.

This sounded so familiar that it took me a minute to take it all in. I used to do my sauerkraut in this way. Not with garlic and the pickling spices, however. The packed jars of kraut (some old timers always did this with a crock and a heavy weighted lid set in that cool dry place that Nathan mentions) were set in a basin,those enamel-ware that grandma had plenty of for use in and around the kitchen. (Right now, and possibly ever since the start of the month,the cabbages of the Lancastrians are monstrously huge. I will make that cabbage strudel one of these days.)

Remember lose lids, in other words partially open on the jars of sauerkraut just as she describes for dill pickles because, as she says the jars will start to bubble and should be allowed to for a day or two. Here's the thing, I put an absolutely clean, boiled, and dried towel over the jars in the wash basin to cover them from anything getting in there while the sauerkraut, or in your case pickles, in their jars were fermenting(and then I would replace that sterilized towel with another one every time I checked to take a look at how the fermentation is coming along --which, if it is going as fermentation bubbles, will have soiled the first towel that will need to be soaked and washed and rinsed very well.

Now, here's my problem, as harrie knows, I once had a neighbour who although she was an English-American(she thought of her Welsh mother as English), she had married an Italian, and when at one point I happened to mention to her that I was infusing some  garlic in olive oil on my counter for an oil and vinegar dressing, she told me to throw it out because garlic can poison you very fast with botulism.  I figured someone married to an Italian at any point in her life must know! Even if I read the recipe in the newspaper food section or one of those zillion magazines.

So as soon as I read this recipe in The New York Times on-line a second time since I had printed it out, I thought, oh,oh, would not the garlic do the same here as this is not cooked in a jar by a canning process?

I don't know the correct answer on this.  Although on the other hand I made refrigerator pickles(with onion thinly sliced) right in the refrigerator many times after my Swiss friend from Zurich, another Frieda,who came to Mt. Horeb,Wisconsin in 1927,and eventually married a McDonald of Gays Mills,Crawford County, told me exactly how to do it.

From then on, I made it a point to grow what the French refer to as cornichons,and pick them every day, to make "in the fridge" and with garlic, but that was closed in the covered jar and was refrigerated, which may make all the difference since the outcome is supposed to be a crisp pickle. Those are usually not as big as a lady's little finger; whereas I gather Joan Nathan's recipe is for whole five inch cucumbers packed "under the shoulder of the jar", not quartered, not sliced, nor chunked, and Kosher barrel pickles that I've had often have a softer texture, although I have resorted to using alum in pickle recipes where given when I want to be sure the pickle will have some crispness overall.

Never had any problem eatting pickles pickled with garlic when they were "REFRIGERATOR" PICKLES.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 24, 2007, 03:06:24 PM
WEEZO,

Lebanon bologna in these parts is more similar to a cooked salami than any other kind of bologna.  Like the Oscar Meyer wieners that you referred to, from Madison,Wisconsin,many food items are not brought into Pennsylvania whether Berks County Germans or Adams county some more Germans, or Lancaster (or Perry county) backsliders from Old Ordnung because it might compete with the local product.

I would still order Usingers at Christmas or pre-Easter for their Bavarian style, until I found that S.Clyde Weaver (S. is for Samuel, even the kids in the store could not figure that out) has access to weiss-wurst or bockwurst. The only other company who prepared that, after I took a good look all over the food stalls and found that I didn't like J.Martin and Sons as it appeared that they didn't know what they were doing!,but Dietz & Watson out of Philadelphia is fine. They just don't sell out here , with the conflict of interest problem. I'd have to go all the way down to Longwood and turn in at Superfresh to check their deli-counter in order to obtain Dietz & Watson.   That seldom happens anymore. Those stores have changed drastically in the last few years, chintzing on their Italian products for instance. I used to have to go all that way to put in a supply  of common Italian ingredients --or at least to West Chester where many Italians had settled. This was a bit bizarre at first after coming all this way from New Jersey only to discover there was no bread that had crust. That changed however. Now you can't find anything like Rienzi canned goods, ordinary Cannelini white beans to make tuna salad in summer. I can cook the beans if they are available dry but it still defeats the purpose of making quick dishes in hot weather.

Now, just as I go to S. Clyde Weaver for German ingredients,I can also go there for Parma, or pancetta,or papperdelle and the mortadella is to die for. It is simply too far to go back and forth using up gas because of these political food games.

I'd be the first to admit that our "summer sausage" home-made was of a different quality than  east-coast Lebanon bologna although I don't recall if it was very thin or more thick but the taste is completely different than ring bologna for instance. As October comes on, I think of Knackwurst and Dutch and German recipes, and should I risk going to Liederkranz for Oktoberfest as I used to go to Adamstown for Belsnickle where a friend of mine asked, do they know they are drunk?  And should they be doing that for what is supposed to be a treat for the kids?

And, I answered, you are beginning to catch on. No, they don't know they are drunk, which is why the children observing this as normal adult behaviour, as it was where we grew up among German-Americans, will begin drinking early and have a drinking problem before they are thirty something(as someone reminded me of the tv show the other day).

As you and I have been speaking of this in terms of school days and classmates recently, would you believe that a  28 year old worker died overnight in the hospital after the doctors had to notify his parents that he would be dead in two days.  All his co-workers had watched as he drank himself to death on beer on a daily basis; no one in the family thought of an "intervention"; as he was an "Army brat", who had been born in Italy before returning to this part of the world.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 25, 2007, 10:30:45 AM
Thank you for the pickle recipe, maddie, but I have my hands full right now.  Check the pears again this weekend and they were literally falling off the branches into my hand when I touched them. Ended up with about 15-18 lbs of pears that are hard as a stone, even the yellow one.  I am determined to put these suckers up, however, and I'm hoping for two batches - one spiced, the other plain.  I am going to do the spiced ones with ginger.

I'm confused about putting up fruit preserveres - my grandmother always told me you don't have to "can" them because the fruit will stay good as long as you get a good seal on the lid.  (Of course, you have to sterilize the jars and lids.)  So, several years ago when I put up figs and pears I did just that and got great results.  I remember my grandmother keeping her preserves around forever - mine didn't last long - I gave them away as Christmas gifts so everyone consumed them.

The article I was talking about in the Atlanta Journal Constitution several weeks back said that you need to place the jars in several inches of boiling water for fifteen minutes after the preserves have been sealed into the jars.  I never heard of this.

I think I may have to get a meat cleaver to get those pears cut up. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on September 25, 2007, 10:54:47 AM
Des, a good potato peeler will "skin" those pears, and a large "chopping" knife, pressed down with your right hand on top of the blade (assuming you are right handed) as you steady the blade with your left hand, will split the pears in half.  Use a melon baller to scoop out the center (seeds and hard stuff,) then turn the pear half back over, flat side down, and slice the pear, again using the two handed, pressing method.  A little practice will make all this go faster as you progress through your pear stash.  If you "can" your pears as soon as they are done cooking, and use hot jars and lids, I see no reason for a water bath "curing".  I never do, anyway. Make sure the rim of the jar is clean, pop on a hot lid, hand tighten the ring (not too tight) and leave jars on the counter, waiting for the POP of the lids that indicates a seal has been made.

Yummers, woman.  I need to get down to the farmer's market and get me some of those rock hard pears that make preserves that are so down right delicious.

Remember, you can make some quickie pear goodies by putting slices in a bit of butter in an iron skillet and sprinkling some brown sugar all around in the last 5 minutes (watch carefully after adding the brown sugar. You want it to camelize not burn.) Don't forget to add a tad of salt (sugared foods taste flat without a bit of salt.)  You can use pears cooked this way alongside pork chops or pork sausage, or over vanilla ice cream.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 25, 2007, 04:28:15 PM
I  pulled the Heinz,Ball,and Kerr guides from the shelf, and we can forget Heinz since that is for pickled pears which would have sugar as well as vinegar poured over the pears with some spices.

Ball says:one bushel does 20-25 quarts  and if the pears are hard to put them in a cool dark corner somewhere until they are ripe. (Now to Ball, that cool comes out at 60-65 degrees F. Ripe but not soft. Bartletts considered best for canning, but Kieffers and similar varieties are satisfactory if properly ripened and then cooked until almost tender in plain water before sugar is added.

I think this implies that Bartletts are sweet on their own when Ripe but not soft.  I will have to look at a picture of a Kieffer(and similar varieties?) to be clear because my imagination immediately returns to an over-televised Kieffer Sutherland.

All that I recall is that there is something about sugar that "preserves" the pear. So Ball recommends a light sirup(that's how they spell it!) in which to cook pears for 5-6 minutes in hot sirup. Then pack in hot jars, leaving 1/2 inch head space, so that you can cover with boiling sirup but then again they want 1/2 inch head space left --oh, I get it, the sirup is just to go down between the pears and over them but leaving 1/2 inch head space. They process them, of course, for 20 minutes per pint, or 25 a quart.

Kerr is a little different. They boil in something that they call:No.2 syrup  or No.3 syrup for 25 minutes. Add 1 tablespoon of lemon juice for each quart of pears. Pack into sterilized Kerr jars and seal/

(Hot Pack) prepare Pears as in preceding recipe. recook 3-5 minutes(same numbers on the syrups) Pack into clean jars, fill with syrup to within 1 and 1/2 inches of top of jar. Put on cap, screwing band firmly tight process in water bath 25 minutes.

Okay -- found it after the fruit, the numbers on the syrup 2. is medium or 2 parts water to one sugar and bring to a boil. While number 3 is heavy syrup with equal amounts of water to sugar,bring to a boil. They also suggest that you can use fruit juice instead of water. Never have tried that.  The Kerr Guide, for Kerr Glass in West Virginia is so old that I wish the cover was still here for me to check the year, the pictures look like the Thirties to me, and it was given to me by a Norwegian farm boy, but dark like certain characters in  Bergman films, although he may have Native Americans in the family given the geographic area.  He was not back from Vietnam long enough as yet to not suffer keenly from post-traumatic stress disorder some of which was hallucinating what one  thinks one saw as compared to what it actually turns out to be, which means you are carrying a proclivity to see what you have been used to seeing, so he would often check with me and ask, and I would nod, yes, it did appear that way but visual misinterpretation often happens.

At any rate, he did not think he would need the Kerr canning guide in Red Lodge, Montana.  Now, on to look for the Kieffers.

They are described as grown from Zone 4 to 9 going South, a large yellow, blight-resistant, hybrid used for canning, no picture.

I did find where I can order Comice when it doesn't want to be handled by the local markets. Now, that I know it is also called Royal Riviera and grown on the Northwest Coast orchard regions.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 26, 2007, 10:25:19 AM
Thanks much for the research, maddie.  I did mine with plain sugar and no fluids - some old country boy told me how he did his, so I tried the method and by golly it worked.  No Certo, none of that stuff, just sugar and pears.  You put the cut pears in a dutch oven or large pan on the stove layered with about 7 cups of sugar, then just cook over low heat.  The heat and sugar render the juice from the pears and that's all the liquid you need.  The instructions I was given was to cook them until you can't skim the bubbles from the boil off anymore.  They came out fantastic.

I can't imagine why Bartlett pears would be any better for preserves since other types of pears are just as sweet and some have a nicer texture IMO.  My pears are D'anjous.

I tried letting the pears I picked a few weeks ago ripen but they just kinda shriveled instead.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on September 26, 2007, 11:13:41 AM
Not sure why Maddie posted me a link on popcorn poppers, but thank you.

Too dry here for pear trees to do well (though they would have been fine this year, as we had our annual rainfall, 26 inches, by the end of August, possibly a record....).  The only trees that were native here grew down along draws and creeks, mostly cottonwoods and ashes.  All other species were introduced from elsewhere, either as rural shelter belts or urban plantings.   


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 26, 2007, 01:11:05 PM
Not sure why Maddie posted me a link on popcorn poppers, but thank you.

Too dry here for pear trees to do well (though they would have been fine this year, as we had our annual rainfall, 26 inches, by the end of August, possibly a record....).  The only trees that were native here grew down along draws and creeks, mostly cottonwoods and ashes.  All other species were introduced from elsewhere, either as rural shelter belts or urban plantings.   

Where are you again, Barton?  Apricot trees do fantastic in dry areas.  My mother grew up during the depression in West Texas where living was tough for people who didn't own any land - my grandfather had to go wherever he could to eek out a dime.  Anyway, everywhere you go there is an apricot tree - I would almost dare to say they are indigenous to the region since my grandmother always seemed to have one available, including in the last house they lived and died in.  Mom said that granny would fry up a bunch of apricot fried pies and send her and her sisters out to sell them door to door for a nickel each to make money.  She was obviously clever enough to know that cute little girls + apricot fried pies = money.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 26, 2007, 01:18:37 PM
That was because you notified us of the popcorn hazard. Can you imagine the people who package this stuff in the work-place; some new kind of suit will have to be invented, no doubt for inhaling fumes...oh,well, skip that.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 26, 2007, 02:04:24 PM
Incredibly des, we have good ole boys here but they are all Republicans who speak German quite well as fourth generation inhabitants by inheritance of Switzers.  (I'm still researching to find that book that I used to start researching why they barbarically frontier do differently than those under Roman Law.  They apply their network of cronies to get favors and reward in kind).

Never used certo which is used for jam but learned to use apple pectin for that process back in the Midwest.  We did use Vitamin C (asorbic acid) to keep the pears white, other than the lemon juice floating in the basin with the pears during cutting, which is recommended for anything other than tomato canning since tomatoes have their own acidity. The reason for the waterbath canning is obvious, after having visited too many upcountry communes in the North Country where the canning was spoiling on the shelves although the beer bubbled nicely, when they desperately needed the food where the winters were thirty below. I'd hate to see you lose all that goes into "putting up food", which reminds me that I didn't even check out that book as yet.

It's hotter than all get out here with humidity of thunder storms on the way, so I'm glad not to can but have to wait until the humidity passes before doing up the feather comforter.(which Kiki the cat loves).

What I forgot to remind you of was a mistake that I always made by not taking the rings off the sealed jars  before shelving, when I first canned. Years later, I could get fancy with fabric remnants in small patterns cut with the pinking shears into circles for putting between lids and rings when the jars went into closed shelving on a Pennsylvania farm. But the trouble with keeping a ring on a jar is it attracts critters, despite the seal on the jar, they don't get into the jar but are the result of small moths attracted to the kitchen-pantry before the Indian Summer is nigh.

When you say apricots, that is what I remember about the Navaho coming down at Canyon de Chelly,Arizona where they camp to obtain peaches and apricots for drying, when I was a kid and we returned my cousin out to Arizona somewhere about 1938-1939 when the war was starting in Europe. I think my aunt's idea had been for her to be with us to go to a decent high-school up north in the city where she had originally lived following her aunt's example after leaving a Rock County,Wisconsin farm.  I never figured out why my aunt tried to live on an Apache reservation to start with. Blind love, I suspect; not for the Apaches. As what her mother referred to as the "savages" were the bottom line reason to send a teen-ager that far away to high school. Someone recently was talking about the strict rules of Southern avoidance of "ruination" in another forum.


Back to pears, Comice are an Anjou that went zaphtic to put on a few curves and thus became sweet and juicy but tender-skinned.




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 26, 2007, 02:15:23 PM
barton,#556 the popcorn note was for you.  I had an Ash in Wisconsin, with whispering leaves, out near the original goose pen and the rabbit hutches on the new property line that came into being.

Before the packets of land had been sold off by Engel, the geese would have had the run of the fruit orchard, apples mostly, and the rabbits would have been removed from there to fatten them up.  I noticed in the winter that they ran out from under the line of pines that demarcate the acreage,never saw the rabbits, just their lozenge shaped excrement decorating the snow as they tried to find roquette to nibble on or maybe they'd get lucky and discover the carrots seeded in August for ten feet under the bales of mulch.  Rabbits have a nasty habit of eatting several inches from one head of cabbage per night when they sense cool weather approaches.

So, somehow the old man must have trapped them for fattening just where he wanted them. His ghost apparently roamed our house not bothering us(only overnight visitors saw him--or, dreamt they did-- or, thought it was a dream) but I was careful with exploring the barn where he had recycled everything.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on September 26, 2007, 02:54:42 PM
Always wondered why people took the rings off the lids - makes sense if you're keeping the food long term.

I remember our next-door neighbor who made jelly when I was a kid - she preserved it in little jars with a only a parafin seal.  I always thought that was so strange.  You have to prise this wax up and then you have no lid for your jar.

I'm seeing baking pumpkins in the stores again.  Last year the kids said they were so sick of pumpkin stuff from previous years they couldn't see straight, so I didn't bake anything pumpkin all year.  To heck with that this year.  After I finish with my pears I'm going to bake some pumpkin stuff from scratch with real pumpkin.  Yummy.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on September 26, 2007, 04:53:00 PM
des,

The next-door neighbour still had the tops that came with the jars or she could buy more in a package at the local grocery or even the hardware store. Sometimes I buy them just because they change the pattern, although I gave the majority of my canning jars away to all my Mennonite neighbors and only saved sufficient to use for food storage in the refrigerator where I can see what I've got. Once my brother's partner gave me a box that weighed pounds and was 17 and 1/2 by 14 and 1/2 by 4 and 1/2 inches tall, filled with packs of lids.

I decided that after having more than enough for 25 years, I was tired of dragging them around but the seals might dry out and so I could not give those away to Amish or Mennonite canners. My Amish friend, Sadie, puts hers,the jars of fruit, in the cellar on a concrete raised platform in the foundation where the jars stay cool but not too cool as there is a hot stove in the next cellar room or was, I think she changed heating systems last year and it bothered her getting used to the sound of it.

Anyway Sadie takes all the rings off, and she sends one of her grand-daughters down there once in awhile to keep busy with a soft cloth rag dusting off each jar one at a time so that they gleam like jewels. She puts up sour cherries from her orchard, the German kind that they are so proud of up in Washington and Oregon, apparently the Amish brought them when they came from Germany in the 18th.century to Lancaster county. Her husband,Omar, protests that he'd like them better if she took the pits out. Sadie also grows Peaches in her fruit orchard which she can see from her window above her stove. They are in exactly the same place as my grandmother had her orchard, mostly apples,although I do not entirely recall, uphill from the house past the work shops. I got to know Sadie because her farm was laid out very similarly to my grandparents as it had been,although with Sadie you go up hill all the way, almost to the top of the hill for the best view of the county.

To get to grandmother's you had first go down-hill from the village ,cross the creek, and up hill again, like Thanksgiving directions.

For that season of the year, I baked pumpkins as the fastest way to deal with them, when I was presented with 13 of what are known as "Cheese" pumpkins from Connecticut; these are shaped like a wheel of cheese, flat, with smooth curves as wedges,almost beige in color like a beautiful piece of wood.  They were to decorate the steps up to the front porch at Halloween, one on each side of the wide step, and an extra thrown in. They last quite well rubbed with a light coating of vegetable oil that is light in itself, while you bake the pumpkins one at a time to warm the house. Since they have to be pierced anyway,I'd cut the lid and clean the seeds/saving some for planting, setting the pumpkin in a roasting pan with some boiling water in the bottom as you do when baking squash for dinner.  Other times they can be boiled in a large canner on top of the gas stove, when cut into segments but the baked method leaves them easy to handle, when cooled off, so you can clean and mash and throw in the freezer if you like for inevitable pie baking.


Title: damned rock-hard pears
Post by: desdemona222b on October 03, 2007, 06:14:33 PM
They're still sitting there, hard as stone.   >:(


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 04, 2007, 02:28:08 AM
What's like a stone, Des?  The pears or the pumpkin?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 04, 2007, 10:25:30 AM
Those dog-gone pears I picked three weeks ago, donot.  They were out on my countertop until it looked like they would surely ruin it, then they got transferred downstairs into the basement.  I'm not even thinking about trying to cut those things up until they get a little softer.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on October 04, 2007, 11:26:43 AM
Dinner last night was Pear Salad -- greens topped with sliced pears, toasted pecans and bleu cheese, with a dijon-y dressing.  I was very worried about the pears -- to the point of having pizza money ready -- because they seemed rock hard.  Bought them Saturday, and they just refused to soften up.  But when I cored and cut them, they were fine -- nice taste, and we didn't break any teeth or anything.  I wouldn't call them succulent, but that actually worked for the salad purpose.  So, depending on what you want to do with the rock-hard pears, maybe cut into one and see how it smells, looks, etc.?  Just a thought.

Monday, I will celebrate Columbus Day by making boatloads of stuffed cabbage and possibly baking up breaded eggplant rounds.

None of our Rouge vif d'Etampe ("cheese" or "Cinderella") pumpkins worked out this year, though we have plenty of carvers.  I'm determined to give them another try next year; their flesh is just awesome to work with.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on October 04, 2007, 11:36:35 AM
Desdemona....sometimes if you put fruit in brown paper bags, it will ripen in a few days.  You can fit three or four pears in a lunch brown bag, fold over the top, and let them sit at room temperature.  You can probably fit eight or ten in a grocery size bag.  Check every day to see if they are softening. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 04, 2007, 11:41:10 AM
It's just that I'm looking at peeling, coring, and cutting into bite-size pieces about 15-20 huge pears for preserves - don't know if I have that kind of stamina, but I don't want them to go to waste, so I'll go ahead and bite the bullet this weekend if I'm up to it.  Doing the jars is gonna be tricky because I have next to no counter space around my stove.

The leaves are just starting to turn - just the slightest trace of yellow and red here and there, so I'm stoked about autumn approaching.

Thanks for advice regarding the brown bags, Laurie.  I keep forgetting to ask for them at the store.  Also tried to find jars at Home Depot, the only "hardware" store within miles a couple of weeks back.  I'm going to have to call them to find out if they have them I guess, since I couldn't find a clerk to help me.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 04, 2007, 12:07:17 PM
Des, you've just got more trouble than a widow woman with 10 kids.  Oh me, for canning supplies you go to the store of your choice and ask in the FRONT for a clerk to help you.  If that is not forthcoming in a reasonable length of time--like being able to get from the back of the store to the front--you raise your voice to extra loud and say "I NEED SOME HELP HERE. DO I NEED TO GO TO (name a competitor store)"?  Never mind the startled looks.  Repeat as necessary.  Before that, you should have roused a store manager.  :)

Take Harrie's advice and cut one pear open.  That's the beauty of those kind of pears.  They stay usable for a long time.  Then all of a sudden, they rot.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on October 04, 2007, 12:18:52 PM
If you have an Agway store near you, I find they kick ass as far as having: 1) the canning supplies and yard stuff; and 2) the knowledge to answer your questions on how to use them.  Plus, they put your purchases in brown paper bags (or mine does, anyway).   

I live 1 mile from a Home Depot, and I haven't been there in over a year.  There's a feed/garden shop sort of across the street that thrives on customers who, all cheesed off, walk out of HD and right into their store.  The lumber store next to the garden shop uses the slogan "We're just across the street" and they do phenomenal business, too.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on October 04, 2007, 12:26:17 PM
LOL...."We're just across the street."


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 04, 2007, 01:06:29 PM
No such thing as an Agway down here in the sticks, harrie.  I moved waaaay out several months back, so I'm trying to save money and gas mileage, but I'm tempted to just go to Ace Hardware in the next town over - I know they have jars there.

Donot, lol, don't you know how it goes in HD when you're buying a bunch of stuff (and I seem to be there constantly now that I own my own home) and you're out in the middle of the store as though you're in the Great White North or something? I find Mike Judge's take on the place in King of the Hill /i] particularly amusing - they don't go to HD, they go to "Home Labyrinth".


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: elportenito1 on October 05, 2007, 11:25:42 AM
When I was a kid, my mum, dad and my brothers and I would go into the forest to kill anacondas, then my mum will cook them according to an old Yugoslav recipe from a place near Mitrovica,

1 anaconda of regular sice, skined, washed and choped in bite sice pieces.

6 armadillo thights

1 onion choped finely

salt and pepper

2 kilos desiree potaoes.

2 litres of the stock made from anaconda left over bones.

place choped anaconda and armadillo thights in frying pan with a bit of anaconda fat or olive oil.

fry pieces with onion and then ad the potatoes and the stock.

Cook untill tender.

salt an peper to taste and serve very hot. (at this stage choped parsley can be aded too)

(anaconda must be eaten hot, otherways you get strange prophetic nightmares due to chemicals developing in the meat while cooling off.)

I recomend a chardonay with this dish.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 05, 2007, 01:05:07 PM
el portenito1

"oh,puke!"


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on October 08, 2007, 12:00:51 PM
Okay, so the neighbor across the street had knee replacement surgery and is coming home today or tomorrow.  Since today is stuffed cabbage and eggplant processing day, I was going to make said neighbor an eggplant parmesan to throw in the fridge/freezer (the galumki stay here!) for an easy dinner.  Then I started thinking...some people hate eggplant, and Domino's delivers to this family at least once a week, so maybe they're eggplant haters, or at least not eggplant appreciaters. 

Is it probably safer to do a baked ziti or lasagna, or am I overthinking this whole thing? 

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd appreciate hearing them.  Or seeing them, if you want to get technical, I guess.  Thanks in advance.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 08, 2007, 01:08:16 PM
Harrie, I'd go for the lasagna or a three cheese "mac n cheese" dish.  Pizza delivery once a week?  Egg plant, nada.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on October 08, 2007, 01:19:16 PM
Thanks, DoNot, I was thinking the same thing.   It was only as I was peeling the eggplant -- I have to do them today anyway, they'll just go in the freezer -- that I started thinking about all the people I know who don't like eggplant.

Now mac-a-cheese....that's an excellent idea.  Thanks!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on October 08, 2007, 02:15:59 PM
if it's realy good e.p. parm, go for it.  better yet, try e.p. rollatini for a change.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 08, 2007, 02:21:48 PM
Yes!

I used to get them from a place called Mulberry Street, at the Jersey Shore, wondering why I had never thought of that myself?  It's like the concept of spiedini; or, how dumb could I get.  It's just about weather for it too, in the zone south of that area of New Jersey.

In other words, why have we not had a hurricane?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 08, 2007, 02:32:14 PM
However, I am also thinking of some cannelloni filled with bechamel sauce,pieces of roasted chicken, and spinach topped with some  Asiago sauce, because I heard a rumor that this is Columbus Day and I really wish the gov't. would stop messing around with the dates of holidays that are not entirely or necessarily American in the first place but guess what? I went to get a salad from a Mennonite Pizza parlor (this is not a joke) because they make horrible pizza unless you give them explicit directions what to do and what not to do and, in passing by, it was noticed that somebody on a nearby home had put up the Christmas decorations on their front porch in this housing development (which used to be an Amish farm).  One wonders, about the residents, do we suppose they know it is not going to be Christmas for awhile; or, is it their start on some new and unusual Halloween display involving red instead of orange and black? This could very well be if these people emigrated from New Jersey as many have had to(I won't say which ones)where the civilians are ingeniously creative as Halloween approaches.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on October 08, 2007, 04:56:30 PM
How about something simple for your neighbor, like fried/baked chicken and scalloped or au gratin potatoes. Maybe take the eggplant as a side dish, just in case they don't like it.

You could pass some of those galumki my way. It's been years!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 08, 2007, 05:33:09 PM
harrie -

You remind me of myself.  It is so sweet of you to help out your neighbors in a world where most neighbors don't even know each other anymore.  My dad had knee replacement surgery a couple of months ago and he's doing great right now, but it was rough at first.

I remember Italian neighbors in New Orleans giving us eggplant parmesian - something that I had never had in my life.  The only eggplant I had ever eaten was fried, and I hated it.  My point is, eggplant parmesian is so delicious I think even eggplant haters would like it if only they'd try it.  Having said that, I'd err on the safe side and do baked ziti or something.

My pears are stewing as I speak.  They finally "ripened", but what nasty, hard things they are.  Don't have much taste, either, but the spices, sugar and lemon juice should produce something nice anyway.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 08, 2007, 07:52:14 PM
Pear Preserve Report:

My hard, nasty little pears were little floating bits atop a sea of bubbling liquid until I strained them out and pulverized them with a hand blender.  The pulp was returned to the boiling fluid and the mixture now looks a lot like apple butter.  It's seasoned with allspice, nutmeg, cinnamon, and ginger.  I got five pints out of the effort so I'm well satisfied.  Keep your fingers crossed for me that I get a good seal on every single jar.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 10, 2007, 11:19:24 AM
Elportenito, interesting that Yugoslavia would be the source of a recipe for a South American snake, viz. the anaconda.  Do you know of any supermarkets near Lincoln, Nebraska, USA that carry anaconda meat?  Does it taste like chicken?

I have a possum stew recipe for you:

Boil 2 gallons water.

Drop in one freshly-killed possum.

Add a bay leaf.

Cook for two hours, then salt to taste.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 10, 2007, 12:06:55 PM
Des, I posted to you about the time Melba was hacked, hoping for success on the pear butter jars sealing.  I heard on the national news the other night that Atlanta will be out of water by next year if they don't get a drenching from a hurricane system.  Imagine.  Sink baths using bottled water!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 10, 2007, 01:10:28 PM
Donot -

I don't understand all this about a drought here because it rains throughout the year and no matter how much it rains, we're always in a drought.  I've lived in lots of drier places - there's lots of trees and plantlife, so what gives, I wonder?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 10, 2007, 01:42:36 PM
"drought" -- in Nebraska, it means everything turns tan or gray, the ground develops cracks, and it gets dusty.  Makes me proud that we haven't watered down this term.  This year is nearing the wettest in Nebr. history, and the d-word hasn't been uttered for a while.  I'd love to send some of this rain where it really is too dry.  A lot of basements here aren't really designed for more than 30 inches of rain per year, and concrete workers are plenty busy.  My north foundation wall has pretty much fallen apart this year.  Of course, the house is 90 years old, so a wet year was going to get it sooner or later.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 10, 2007, 03:28:56 PM
Barton, where is Mike Holmes when you need him.  I'm sorry to hear about your basement walls, but jealous as all get out about your vintage home.  Does yours have the transoms above the doors?

Des, the news story showed the two lakes that are your (Atlanta's) water sources.  They are drying up at a very fast rate.  Hence the estimate that there won't be any water in them a year from now, all things staying equal.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 10, 2007, 03:29:49 PM
I guess I have the same mindset since I spent many of my formative years in Lubbock, Texas, possibly the most barren, dusty, dirty area imaginable.  I did a search on the drought in Atlanta and it is because of all the people living here depleting water supplies.  Metro Atlanta need a new water supply because the present ones are inadequate.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 11, 2007, 11:30:05 AM
America needs to end its infatuation with the artificial lawn that needs endless chemicals and water to maintain.  Stop watering lawns, put in something native that grows by itself, and most water shortages would disappear.

Desdemona, my forebears lived on the edge of the dustbowl, too, in central and southern Kansas.  The driest areas were up north of Amarillo, the OK panhandle, and SW Kansas. 

Donot, no transoms, just a humble plains bungalow of about 725 square feet.  It was a rental I owned that I moved into when I divorced and the tenants were moving out anyway. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 11, 2007, 11:48:42 AM
Barton -

No wonder you know where Palo Duro Canyon is.  I was born in Amarillo.  If it's drier north of Amarillo than it is in Lubbock, I'd hate to see that.  Unless something is planted there, there's nothing but miles of dirt, tumbleweeds, and mesquite trees.  Amarillo always seemed to be verdant in comparison, but Lubbock is on a caprock, so that may explain the barren landscape there. 

Morning glories and buttercups are blooming like crazy here this morning - just gorgeous. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 15, 2007, 12:15:35 PM
I remember my youthful passage through the Panhandle mainly for the wind.  Nonstop wind.  My parents didn't like long car trips, so I think we only went through the Palo Duro area once; we were en route to Santa Fe and then looped around north, went through Co Springs and Denver area and then came back to Wichita.  I remember climbing up Mt. Manitou and vomiting at around 11,000 feet, so I guess altitude wasn't my thing.   

Amarillo seems like one of those high plains towns where it would be really weird to be a vegetarian.  It is on Route 66 though, so that's kind of groovy. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 15, 2007, 02:00:06 PM
Groovy is a great word for Route 66.  My sister and her family, who live in Stockton, CA traveled from LA to Stockton one summer on Route 66 and found the Wig-Wam Motel still in operation.  I remember seeing those places where the rooms were like teepees or wig-wams back in the 60s - unbelievable that one of them is still attracting guests.

I doubt anyone would give you grief for being vegetarian in Amarillo, Bart.  The stench in the evenings from the stockyards is enough to move anyone to give up beef, if not meat altogether.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 15, 2007, 02:58:32 PM
Barton, sounds cozy.  If you decide to repair the foundation wall, check, check, check the people out within 50 or so miles (maybe 100, since it's Nebraska) that say they do that kind of work.  Interview, in person, references.  Hire a engineering outfit first to tell you exactly what's wrong and how to go about fixing it.  Make copies (keep the original for yourself) to give out to prospective contractors to help them with their estimates.  Make it part of the contract that the engineering firm will be back to check that the work was done right and that the last payment will depend on it.  Pay first and last, half and half.

The house I had before this one was pier and beam (built 1936).  Needed redone (I went with cable-lock).  The engineering cost me $200.  Best money I ever spent.  The job came in at $8000.  Just in time, too, before the front room fireplace fell into the driveway.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on October 16, 2007, 04:01:06 AM
Des,there are Wig Wams left in the west but Stockton is well north of L.A. towards the Bay Area and route 66 comes in from the east right into L.A...I thought maybe route 6 but that runs north away from Stockton.The Wig Wam I saw was from the Southwest Chief I took to Chic from L.A. in 2004 and was somewhere in New Mexico.The little Tee Pees looked cool from the train.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 16, 2007, 09:34:00 AM
Bosox -

I guess they didn't take it "all the way in" as I stated - guess they went west on Rt 66 then turned north? 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 16, 2007, 11:47:17 AM
Did they get any kicks?

Sorry.

Not really.

Anyway....

Donot -- We are pretty much on the same page.  I had an expert look it over and then located contractors who specialized and got multiple bids.  A new block wall is expensive, but a poured wall is more reasonable and it's in the back and sort of obscured by growth and things so that it's appearance isn't as important as the other walls.  It's a house I'm ultimately selling anyway.  Frankly, I'd rather just sell it and show the buyer all my work, i.e. copies of the inspection, bids, etc. and hand him a check at closing for the whole cost of it.  Of course, banks don't go for that, and you know how tight banks are right now giving people mortgage money.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 16, 2007, 11:53:02 AM
Yeah, Amarillo joins such cities as Tacoma WA and Greeley, CO as being pretty odoriferous when the wind blows the wrong way.  The "Tacoma Aroma" when I was there in the 80s was on its way towards being eliminated, but it still made my eyes water -- a sulfurous and biting effluvium from the pulp mills.  Springfield, Oregon was a close second, it being the home of Weyerhauser.  Greeley can smell vile, but it's like Amarillo in that there is often a lot of wind and sometimes it can work in your favor and carry the feedlot stench elsewhere.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on October 16, 2007, 03:14:21 PM
Jacksonville used to smell like that with the pulp mills.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on October 16, 2007, 03:18:23 PM
Des,you know it hit me this morning.I was talking about Los Angeles and you typed LA so not sure if you meant the city or the State! :o Route 66 would certainly be involved coming across the country.I have an old Atlas that shows 66 when it ended at the ocean in Santa Monica.It ran along Santa Monica Blvd.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on October 16, 2007, 03:41:01 PM
I was talking about Los Angelos, bo.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 16, 2007, 03:55:10 PM
Other than a factory pig farm, there ain't nuthin that smells worse than a pulp mill.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 16, 2007, 04:44:20 PM
How did this come about? i came in here in case someone needed a nice Cannelloni recipe that I eventually made after Columbus Day; and now I have to decide how to make that eggplant rollatini that got mentioned that harrie might take to the neighbors until weezo said Macaroni.

Did everyone trip on the door-jamb set too high by that Nebraska builder?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 16, 2007, 04:46:15 PM
Just don't put too many nails in your mouth while repairing the door frame.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 16, 2007, 04:49:37 PM
I mean, cats are eating frogs back in the something and Nutrition forum up ended in September for repairs.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on October 16, 2007, 07:12:51 PM
Okay -- it was DoNotRemove who said go with the macaroni as opposed to eggplant, which I thought was a very good idea.  Weezo said to do fried chicken and scalloped taters; sounds good, but I gotta say, I don't make fried chicken even for us.  I ended up making a baked ziti, threw some burger in the sauce because I'm pretty sure they eat of the meat.  Did end up using three cheeses (ricotta, mooz, romano) so it was sort of close to the three-cheese mac-a-cheese.  This way, they could throw it in the fridge or freezer to save for when they need an easy dinner or whatever.  One dish, nice but disposable container, easy directions.  I think it worked out well, as they all seem to be still alive.

We do eggplant rollatini with sliced (the long way) and drained eggplant, sometimes breaded, sometimes not.  Lay out a slice of prosciutto on top of the eggplant, roll up tightly, secure with toothpick if necessary.  Place the rolls, fitted snugly, into a baking dish that has a thin layer of sauce on the bottom.  When the pan is full, cover with sauce -- heavily or lightly, depending on your preference.  Sprinkle with grated parm/romano, and/or grated mooz if you like.  Bake at 350 for about 30-40 minutes.   People also use a ricotta filling, but our little restaurant down the street uses prosciutto, so that's the way we've gone. 

Now how about that canneloni recipe?   I don't have recipes for frogs, tenderized or natural.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on October 17, 2007, 11:54:33 AM
Maddie, it's called "stream of consciousness" -- word on the street is that you are familiar with the concept.

 ;)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 17, 2007, 04:01:29 PM
Oh, they teach that  between quotes in literature courses too, barton, beginning in grade school, maybe.  I wonder if they actually do any more? As I never really ran into the expression in a classroom.  It seems to come out of literary journals of a certain period, until people believed in it. 

It really does exist and without title if that can be helped.

After having an early education by nuns who taught the parsing of sentences ( if that is the term? Maybe it was "paragraphing"? ) while we learned the parts of speech back in the 1940s, I ran into something wonderful that changed everything.  Exposure to the idea gradually sank in, upon hearing it a sufficient number of times, and reading the poems as well, so that I saw it on the page, to the extent that I could automatically hear the voice of Kenneth Rexroth.  Many of his earlier poems as a young man are not written as he spoke but are the expected classic example while excelling the abilities of many other poets who were contemporaries of his youth (as well as now, I might add).

His poem known as  A Letter to William Carlos Williams  is a perfect example of his friendship with Doctor Williams, the imagist poet, having possibly led to the poem written as natural speech.

Alas, by the time Rexroth's influence had sunk in to my consciousness, my unconsciousness had already been exposed to the verbal pattern of the younger generation around him, the Beat Poets who followed the San Francisco Renaissance and talked nonstop. I'd suggest that many people had somehow not met up with the opportunity to realize that this tendency  of an entire generation was induced  by toking grass. But as they were published in both The Evergreen Review, and also by City Lights (and sometimes their influences were obvious in New Directions run by best buddy of Rexroth who had suggested to Jim Laughlin that he take that up as a full time occupation -- running a publishing house.  Of course, a poet would say that.  Consequently Jim published a lot of Rexroth's collections of poetry), the run-on conversational form of literature took over.

A nicer example of how the thought process works is of course Proust. But few of us have read him in French to get the full benefit of his oddity
and how we remember times past.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 17, 2007, 04:45:55 PM
I like glazed carrots so much I can sit down and eat a whole pan of them.  Same thing with fried okra--a whole skillet full.  Anyone else like something so much that they can indulge like that once in a while, or is it maybe just us who live alone?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 17, 2007, 05:01:24 PM
harrie,re:#604  "We do eggplant rollatini with sliced (the long way) and drained eggplant, sometimes breaded, sometimes not."

"Sometimes not", is when it is put under the broiler with a slick of olive oil. But I invented a crust for the fried variety last night, by following the recipe by Marcella Hazan for --what you did,"Fettine" and then what I did,"Croccanti" di Melanzana. I still have one growing out here but by now it is mainly decorative. I'm not sure that it turned out as well as it would with OTC cracker-crumbs from New Jersey (Old Trenton Crackers) but I scrounged around where the left over matzoh sealed, smashed it up good, ran it through the blender, poured it out and ran it through a second time in smaller halves of a batch at a time until it was the consistency of crumbly flour. You know the old concept, no yeast in it; it may age but it isn't bad for you.

The melanzane being fettined was lightly coarse salted one layer over the other for at least 30-40 minutes, drained of liquid, patted dry with  paper towel, dipped in well-beaten egg(2 small eggs in this case) then turned over in a pan of the matzoh-crumb-flour and fried carefully in grapeseed oil. Once again the eggplants drains on paper towels on a large plate or platter with layers of paper towel in between the layers of egg plant.

I was under the mistaken conclusion that I had the ricotta. Of course not!

So I compromised and it worked out well with some feta cheese folded into sour cream, scraps of some gruyere in a  ziploc, and a few tablespoons of grated parmesan likewise.   When the eggplant had cooled, I spoon the mixture on the slices with a rubber spatula and spread it out a bit on full length with that.  Folding each one over as  I go and placing it on a bed of half the sauce which I've made while the eggplant was cooling. The rest of the sauce goes over the top and was dotted with just enough soft asiago that I had on hand. Like everyone, I have a favourite baking dish which is an enameled iron very shallow and actually a fluted pan used for Italian tortes but I never use it for that. (I use a more light weight Corning ware round to avoid darkening the crust of tortes). The extra heat of the iron-cored pan from Le Creuset finished up the rollatini-in-sauce very quickly so that the sauce is bubbly and the eggplant is, of course, entirely tender for being twice-cooked. I cover it but not tightly with a tenting of No Stick Reynolds wrap just large enough to fit over all sides of the round pan.

The sauce. Begins with olive oil of course not more than one or two tablespoons warmed enough to sweat the chopped onions, at least half a cup of those, covered in the pan, low enough in temperature not to burn. Then you have a 28 ounce can of tomatoes, mine were whole tomatoes in puree from RedPack; and if you have a good covering of apron over you, you can proceed to crush down those whole tomatoes. Lidia Bastianich does this nonchalantly; but this pan has been increasing in heat while sweating the onions and the tomatoes will be hot on their bottoms if you have put them all in at once!  She may have demonstrated at some point that you can crush them one at a time by hand in a deep bowl; there is, nevertheless, the inevitable spritz.

I sprinkled some garlic powder, not salt, over the tomatoes, and a grind of pepper, as well as a good tablespoon of fresh basil, still growing on a regular tree that I now have in a very large but not quite huge pot on a small sturdy low table at the large glass sliding-doors facing east (which I brought into the house just about seventeen days ago).  Although I pick the largest leaves by hand from various places all over the plant, I rinse them if necessary and they are one on top of each other when you roll them like a  -- "cigar"! and then snip them up with a scissors into the sauce. I have dried leaves of Greek oregano standing right there in a narrow necked glass used usually for salad dressing, so I collect a few of those to add up to about a teaspoon and crumple them into the sauce, and let it all bubble very low in action until blended, with a few stirs from a flat bladed wooden spatula that moves things along the bottom of the pan (again enameled but that was because of the small amount being prepared. Larger sauce operations go into large deep 'saute' pans).

When it smells good, it is good for undercoating your rollatini and saucing their tops. Baked at about 400 degrees  for at least twenty but perhaps thirty minutes; if your oven is slower, make it 40.

I started to write about cannelloni but could not continue. Will be back to it again. A recipe for spiedini also came into my life to remind me again that it is the right time to consider cooking  beef occasionally.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 17, 2007, 05:04:47 PM
Recently did that, donotremove, exactly, or did I?  No, I will have to do grandmother's carrots soon. I had some inferior grade carrots that are sold inside of bags, but they work out fine  when made into something known as carrot kugel. This is very sweet, with a texture like cake but is not the ordinary carrot cake; it remains quite orange colored.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 18, 2007, 11:07:14 AM
Directions for how to find cannelloni if you don't know...

It was so long since I made cannelloni that when I went into the store to buy the shells, why were none available?  Simple reason enough, if you ever watched Jeff Smith and Greg, the Batman and Robin of Fantes on Philadelphia's South-side in the market-district. This area of the city is so huge that, unless you are experienced, you may be a couple of hours late for dinner reservations made months in advance. Originally, Cannelloni was made like crepes; and Greg was an expert at tilting a pan with rapidity, having filling made in advance, popping it into the oven, and yet I had forgotten all this when I went to a supermarket founded by Mennonites; their descendents have limited ideas about what is Italian cooking and they order what the distributor tells them to stock.  Should I have been surprised that the tubular shells were not on the shelves of dried first rate pasta from Italy. Yes, and no. Somewhere along the line, Italians came up with the commercial variety of ready-made and carefully packaged so that the delicate shells do not crack if you are careful getting them home and holding them on a shelf where they do not accidentally get pushed out and take a crash-dive, but this does not mean that they call them "cannelloni".
 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 18, 2007, 11:08:49 AM
recipe continued:

1.
When I spun away from the speciality  aisle and De Cecco didn't have "Cannelloni", I went directly to the regular American pasta aisle where a stocker was blocking my shelf scanning. I did not see what I wanted so I told him what I was looking for: "bigger than... but the same idea", pointing out the tubular shape of the short pasta (much too short. Nor big enough).

"Manicotti", he replied and there it was by another brand name that usually makes flavorless pasta somewhere between Hershey and Harrisburg, Pa.  Looking the back of the box over very carefully, it was clearly marked Made in Canada. Ah, good, "lots of Italians living in Canada".

This does not mean the directions on the box for the Harrisburg/Hershey company do not have to be clarified. Here in the US, people think of smearing some more of that ricotta cheese carefully into the very breakable tubes, setting them in a pan and opening a jar of sauce to which they will add some water, cover the pan with Reynolds wrap to bake in the oven. This is related to that Lasagna that comes in a box and is built dry in the pan layer by layer alternating with the wet stuff so that you don't have to boil the slippery noodles and try to work with them and avoid tears in the pasta.

Looking carefully around the box in my hands, I finally discovered the "If you like..." directions. That tell you plainly how five or six minutes pre-cooking will do.

I should tell you that a Pasta pot to me means a tall enamelware or spackleware cooking pot with an insert full of draining holes like those blanchers used to prepare vegetables for the freezer ( I also use my "old pasta pots" to wash vegetables, in particular salads, in the sink; as well as berries in season.) They can also be used as steamers, which means many people think "clams". I find them handy for corn on the cob.

Thus, this means you can deftly place the manicotti shells into the water when it comes to the right temperature and watch them float down to the bottom as you dexterously aim them for the bottom in appropriate spacing to gently cook before you drain them, when you immediately lift them out with something like a chop-stick  or the handle of a wooden spoon inserted to delicately transfer the cooked shells one at a time to a wax-paper lined baking sheet or pizza pan on which to work filling them. Paper towel would possibly stick to the damp shells.

But I am getting ahead of the story because you have other ingredients to prepare for the finished dish and the order in which you chose to begin the pasta will depend on the routine that works out best for you in timing all the components to work out at a nice balanced pace that doesn't make you feel rushed.

Shopping for and how to cook the pasta itself is just the beginning of the adventure.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 18, 2007, 11:10:01 AM
2.
One of the things you can do in advance is wash the spinach which is now in season. Do it thoroughly with running water, lift it from the water, if necessary several times, pinch off stems as you go, discard excessively bruised leaves since they incline to spoiling. Lift from the pot , perhaps into a colander, pat dry on paper towels, you can wrap them in a length of paper towel as well and stuff the whole thing into a large plastic bag placed in the refrigerator drawer to remain crisp.  You will probably not need  the entire bagful that you washed, and I am referring to the local product.  Those square spinach salad boxes of plastic that snap closed are actually packaged right at your store in the shipping received area behind the produce  department, where it arrived either on ice or in a chilled carrier for trucking at just the right temperature. At the time the Spinach Scare developed at San Juan Bautista,California, to me it stood to reason that those pressurized plastic packages that sit on your store shelves at an inconstant temperature are not perfection but a natural incubator for e-coli which was there when they packed the spinach, as they say "in the fields" although they actually have that plant nearby where the ladies examine but use an assembly-line method for packaging the product. That method means that washing may come too late.

You are better off buying the local product and handling it thoroughly for yourself to be confident.

Because I have a colander that fits right into the same pan in which I cooked the pasta, this allows me to steam the spinach in the covered cooker after I've l laid out the cooked pasta shells on the wax-papered sheet. The water has remained hot in the cooker, so you really do not have to "turn up the flame".


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 18, 2007, 11:11:38 AM
3.
Meanwhile what has been going on in the oven, although you may just as expediently saute skinless chicken breast fillets on the top of the stove, is the heating up that we will need for the finishing off of baking the cannelloni. It takes about 20 minutes for boneless chicken breast done in the oven so figure a little less time if you use the fillet, which I had at just slightly over or slightly under a pound because they weren't too clear about that or the size of the individually wrapped fillets popped into one of those air-sealed packages.

I was going for the organic factor, no hormones, no anti-biotics; but I guess they wanted me to buy according to how much I was willing to pay now that the profit motive has gone up in the last couple of weeks. My formerly inexpensive local chicken is now taking me for a ride.

Temperature fluctuates in my oven, I try for 400 degrees but may have to set it back to what says 350 degrees on the range-setting (now we know why they call it " a range")  although an interior thermometer registers  400 degree inside that oven.

That same old Le Creuset iron but enameled baking dish will be used, the advantage of the enameling is that it does not absorb flavoring from previously cooked foods, and I give it a tablespoon or less of that grapeseed oil to coat the pan in which I place the salted (I really do like Lawry salt, a habit left over from the 1950s) chicken, lightly salted however and after I have turned the fillet over so that both sides have the benefit of the grapeseed oil.  At this point, a small shaking of garlic powder (although for stronger tasting dishes you can used pressed garlic cloves but -- we are going to make bechamel sauce for this classic dish, the same kind that the Greeks use when finishing off a baked Pasticcio, just as Italians sometimes do with Lasagna, or the Greek Moussaka of eggplant. I think garlic goes well with any of these dishes that include tomato sauces but too strong a flavor for the cream sauces which in any case will be made with milk for our recipe. Come to think of it,the Italians and Greeks even refer to this splendid topping of their baked "casseroles" as "Crema", to which they will have folded in well-beaten egg yolks as a fortifier or because they are just celebrating Easter!).

Before the chicken fillets go into the oven, give them the bottom of the bottle of dry white cooking wine,you keep handy for such occasions; and if you like sprinkle a little dried red onion flakes into the wine poured around the fillets (often in French cooking a slice of red onion becomes a bed under a heavier slab of meat). I have been known to sprinkle a trifle of Greek oregano over this, or something from a bottle labeled Tuscan herbs(Drogheria & Alimentari), or even McCormick's Italian seasoning. Almost always they have marjoram (which I have been drying from the garden before placing in a bottle. Too early in a jar may form mold and you lose the whole batch) but marjoram is a mellow choice for chicken dishes whereas the Greek oregano is more piquant.

You can tent the cooking chicken loosely and then take off the wrap when you check how it is cooking or want to turn over the fillets.

Set aside to cool while we prepare the piece de resistance.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 18, 2007, 11:12:35 AM
4.
Bechamel Sauce (and I found this version at Williams-Sonoma on-line when I wanted to approximate this dish that had a lovely picture from a place called Romano's Macaroni Grill, where you can always go if you don't want all this bother but, on the other hand... or, the day I did not want to wait on line, triplicated, at Red Lobster, is merely one of the reasons I avoid franchise restaurants).

W-S simply agrees "this classic sauce,... simply called white sauce, adds a rich and creamy quality to a variety of vegetable dishes. It can be spooned over hot cooked vegetables just before serving or mixed with them to make an easy yet elegant creamed vegetable course. [I might add that anything tastes better than a commercially frozen vegetable "sauced" for mere variety in one or another company's inventory competing for your interest]

To turn the creamed vegetables into a gratin, place in a baking dish, top with cheese and then bake in the oven until golden.

To create a cheese sauce, whisk 1/2 cup grated Gruyere, Parmigiano-Reggiano or other cheese into the finished bechamel sauce. If a lighter sauce is desired, substitute chicken stock for part of the milk." I did.

ingredients:

3 Tbs.unsalted butter  and 3 Tbs. all-purpose flour
1 tsp. paprika
1 bay leaf
2 cups milk, heated or 1 cup each milk and chicken stock,heated [ this comes without msg in cans but also in larger cartoons that store on your shelves and can be kept for a week in the refrigerator after opening]
salt and freshly ground White Pepper, to taste. [when freshly ground or even pre-ground in a bottle commercially -- it does not lose flavor and often increases in flavor that can compete for hotness with the freshly ground at home. So WARNING: a little goes a long way!]

In a saucepan over medium heat, melt the butter. Stir in the flour and cook, stirring until blended, 1 minute. Add the paprika and bay leaf.

Gradually add the milk,whisking constantly. Reduce the heat to low and continue to whisk until the sauce is smooth and slightly thickened, 4 to 5 minutes. Season with salt and white pepper. Increase the heat to medium and simmer to blend the flavors, 2 to 3 minutes. Discard the bay leaf before using.

That last is something Lidia Bastianich always tells us about so a guest or a child doesn't choke on a forgotten bay leaf.

In this sauce, because it will thicken rather quickly even as it cools, and become a glob after the cheese is added, which in our case will be grated Asiago: 1/2 cup, as long as it is available in your local supermarket which by now will usually have some commercial brands as well as imports, I scoot the bay leaf up the side of the sauce-pan with a wooden spoon, when I put it on a cold back burner while assembling the components of our Cannelloni in Asiago "cream "sauce.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 18, 2007, 11:13:48 AM
5. Assembly.
By now the chicken is cool enough to handle, and you should cut into pieces, just small enough to fit through the diameter of your Cannelloni/Manicotti shells as you stuff them, but you will combine the chicken pieces first with the steamed spinach stirred together lightly in a bowl large enough to hold all the filling    ingredients, to which you add HALF the Bechamel-Asiago sauce.  Save the other half to top the baking dish once  you have filled the cannelloni.

I just know you saved the baking pan from the chicken?  I hope so because all the little bits and pieces of seasoning will further flavor the baking cannelloni (but, it is true, if you are giving this to a neighbor, maybe you wanted to finish off the baking in a non-returnable Reynolds disposable pan) -- but you know, this may be too rich a dish if your neighbor is sick with a liver ailment for instance, otherwise it's a very reconstituting dish for a person who is down in the dumps or could use a little weight on their bones as long as they are not "watching their cholesterol intake".

Fill all the cannelloni very gently, adjust your oven to be sure the temperature is reasonable in the 325 to 350 degree range, any left-over filling can be arranged in the corners of the dish alongside the row of filled cannelloni which you top with the other half of the reserved Bechamel Sauce.

Before putting in the oven, I get my grater and a nutmeg to grate a very careful light, sparse dusting over the Bechamel because nutmeg is as important a flavoring to spinach(and creme sauce) as tarragon is to these things in French dishes. Bake until it begins to golden-brown, anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes according to the speed of your oven.

Something simple like donotremove's plain raw tomato slices on the side are a nice accompaniment, because a fall lettuce salad in olive oil dressing is almost too much, and even crusty bread may seem like too many carbs. But eat what you like.   This is where the season's plain ripened pears come in handy for a refreshment of a dessert.   (Although I recently finished my sorbet of cranberries and lemon rind and juice with what amount of sugar I have by now forgotten, which I left in the freezer for a year because it was too strong in taste last year but has mellowed in the meantime to scoop into an ice-cream-cone when you must have something for dessert that is slightly sweet and a little tart. Do you suppose it lost the vitamin C in the freezer?)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on October 19, 2007, 08:53:16 PM
Bosox -

I guess they didn't take it "all the way in" as I stated - guess they went west on Rt 66 then turned north? 

66 upside down?  99 runs through Stockton...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on October 19, 2007, 08:56:27 PM
Maddie

I think that took longer to read than it would have taken to pull the frozen Canneloni out of the freezer and pop into the convection microwave!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on October 19, 2007, 08:57:23 PM
maybe even to have eaten it also...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on October 20, 2007, 11:28:04 AM
Trojan, Maddy always opts for the "scenic route."  8)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 21, 2007, 03:31:34 PM

Trojan, Maddy always opts for the "scenic route."  8)


Amazing how well you discerned that. It's a fact. Why risk getting stalled in a backup while a turnpike is undergoing repair work --which is akin to the even worse present day scenario of spending your vacation in an air terminal, when you could be out and about experiencing something really not boring as being uncomfortable.

Yesterday was pathetic, tourists bumper to bumper after Witmer,by about Smoketown, through Bird in Hand, into Intercourse and out again. Once out of there you can enjoy interacting with the the horse drawn buggies. The previous approach to Witmer and until through there, you find the Amish mostly on foot going home from the mid-day annual Ox Roast (so-called).

The tourists have no idea what these things are about or even going on. Nevertheless I was at the farm in  half an hour to get Sadie who needs an outing like the Ham and Oyster dinner in the early evening because she so enjoys the opportunity  to have a chance to see  and talk with relatives from other districts and get the latest gossip from some of the local neighbours by using this opportunity to catch up on everything. She's a very social being but her husband is now fully into Alzheimers which means a routine has become more restricted.  A tornado went through the pasture the previous night after crossing the lane  but apparently by passed just beneath their gross-dawdy haus terraced on a hillside where her sons grow humoungous pumpkins taken to market for sale at this time of year.  I totally forgot to ask about the cows but I'm she would have said if any of them were harmed. The trees that are spaced along the lane but on the pasture side of the fence were  many of them split or with downed limbs. She asked if I had not heard the storm and had that downpour of rain, but I only heard sounds off in the distance from that direction although it  had been predicted as severe weather.
 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 21, 2007, 04:21:07 PM
 TrojanHorse,

Frozen Italian food comes one way. Actually, over the years, I learned to cook from the example of my friends from different backgrounds, how better than to have an Italian show you the basics  so that many,many decades later you have branched out in discovering how to experiment with other more complicated dishes. Later I learned about Greek cooking from a Greek friend. While quite a bit earlier I learned another form of French cooking with a friend from Algiers who came there from Nice in the South of France from where she was raised in Paris.

Inevitably it takes more time to explain a recipe than to actually cook it.

Although I do remember the days when it was a great convenience to find fresh-filled pasta  stacked in the coolers visibly on shelves in a speciality gourmet shop that seems to no longer exist in the Harrison street shopping center of Princeton right across from the main Italian neighborhood of the borough. This happened because people had just found out about Pasta Machines that roll out pasta and wanted to own them.  This was very expensive pasta as compared to ordinary Italian family cooking. 

Right after that I began to familiarize myself with the cooking of Emilia-Romagna which introduces the thought that you can make pasta by hand. This was a very good moment for Lidia Matticchio Bastianich to open her string of restaurants in New York and elsewhere, while going on television to demonstrate the little things that it was a joy to realize I had learned and that what she cooked was as close as possible to the simple methods that made things taste as I recalled. As people became used to what she introduced them to, she  also showed them exactly how to do that hand-made pasta "in a pinch".  So that was a double reinforcement.

It's interesting to me that when I was very young, I would make handmade noodles and spatzles as women do in many cultures. I look back on that and say to myself, what was I thinking?  You gradually leave aside many of these activities as the years go by.

I was going to ask Harrie but, are you familiar with something called --
DreamDinners?  I just found out about it in the last week and looked it up, as it purports to make cooking a snap. Not quite; for a preset sum of money it  provides "an experience" of seemingly pre-prepared food ingredients but I found it very humorous with all these ladies seemingly having fun -- although it reminded me a lot of what we were like in about 7th or 8th grade home-ec classes.-- while actually getting in each other's way measuring out their ingredients to take home and then I realized where I had seen this before as it goes into freezer bags or those Reynolds Wrap containers  taken home in a cooler and popped into your freezer.  You might call it, Steve McQueen style cooking, or frozen dinners, if you remember how he went shopping in, Bullitt.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 21, 2007, 04:32:21 PM
Ps. trojanhorse,
 the microwave is how you reheat what you cooked, which is very filling.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 27, 2007, 03:18:14 PM
This arrived in the e-mail last night

Ciao Italia Tailgate Timballo
Timballo di Mezzi Ziti
Baked Macaroni Casserole Pugliesi Style

Tip:  If you're serving Tailgate Timballo out of the back of your car, wrap the dish in layers of newspaper before you put it in the trunk.  The layers of newspaper create an insulating effect and keep the dish warm.


Mary Ann(Esposito) on this recipe:  "A timballo contains a combination of ingredients, usually with some type of pasta, baked in a mold or springform pan and then unmolded.  Some timballi are chock-full of ingredients while others rely on just a few.  Nevertheless, they are impressive-looking and can even be made using ovenproof glass bowls.  This dish is from the Pugliesi region and is standard fare for big occasions.  It is usually made in some type of terra-cotta dish, but any heavy duty casserole dish at least 12 x 2 1/2-inches deep, or a deep lasagne dish will work."

Serves 6 to 8

Pork Sausage Ragu Sauce

1 tablespoon extra virgin olive oil
1 medium onion, minced
1/2 pound ground pork sausage
6 cups canned plum tomatoes
1/2 cup red wine
6 or 7 fresh basil leaves
Salt to taste

For the Meatballs

1/4 pound ground beef
1/4 pound ground pork
2 ounces grated Pecorino cheese
1/4 cup soft bread crumbs
2 tablespoons minced flat leaf parsley
1 teaspoon minced garlic
2 eggs
Olive oil for frying
1 pound fresh mozzarella cheese,cut into bits
1 pound mezzi ziti or bucatini, broken into thirds

To make the ragu:

Heat the olive oil in a 2 quart saucepan; stir in the onion and cook until it is limp. Stir in the sausage and cook until it is browned. Combine the tomatoes with the wine and stir into sausage. Add salt and pepper to taste. Cook over simmering heat uncovered for 30 minutes. Stir in the basil. Set aside.

Mix all the ingredients for the meatballs together in a bowl except the olive oil, mozzarella cheese, and mezzi ziti.

Make tiny meatballs the size of marbles. Pour a thin layer of olive oil in a sauté pan and fry the meatballs in batches. Or bake the meatballs on a lightly oiled baking sheet at 350F for 12 minutes.

Transfer the meatballs to a large bowl and mix them with 1 cup of the ragu sauce. Set aside.

Cook the mezzi ziti, but remember they should remain just a bit firmer than usual because they will finish cooking in the oven. Drain them and transfer them to a bowl. Toss them with 1 cup of the sauce and set aside.

Preheat the oven to 375F

Spread a thin layer of the ragu sauce in a heavy duty ovenware dish. Spread 1/3 of the mezzi ziti over the sauce. Make a second layer of the meat balls mixed with half of the cheese.

Spread 1 cup of the sauce over the cheese. Make a second layer like the first. Spread the remaining mezzi ziti over the second layer and top with the rest of the sauce.

Bake covered with aluminum foil for 30 minutes, then uncover and bake 10 to 15 minutes longer. The top should be very crispy. 
 

Although not exactly the recipe which came up for discussion  in Movies Forum where Harrie and I were discussing The Big Night, in which Stanley Tucci cooks a timballo for a party because Louis Prima is coming to dinner, this may provide the concept -- that it is a big dish prepared for a large amount of people.

Tucci's creation arrived at the table baked in a "pie" crust the size of a drum because it is essentially a Northern Italian reciple in which are included numerous surprises. Here Mary Ann serves a Southern style of cooking from Puglia, which almost always includes pork.(and for which I would include a little marjoram to accent the pork,particularly in the meatballs. The latter is something I will make later today and I often do them in the oven, and turn them very gently with a wooden scraper as they take longer than Mary Ann implies; preferably in large iron skillets when I make them larger than Ms.Esposito calls for here. It is nevertheless a good practice in preparing a larger dish to serve a larger gathering  either at home or outdoors in the Fall. ( I don't know?  the only "tailgate" in memory was for polo games in the Summer)

When I locate the Northern and historic version cooked by Stanley Tucci, in my search among saved recipes, I shall post it without a doubt so you can experience the ponderment of why cooks put together such feasts five centuries ago.
 
 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 31, 2007, 09:56:11 AM
It's time to initiate this feature in this forum as well.

http://www.theberghoff.com/media/tv_radio/CarlynonWLSTVMakingCreamedSpinach.aspx


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: TrojanHorse on October 31, 2007, 12:34:18 PM
I was going to ask Harrie but, are you familiar with something called --
DreamDinners? 

that's been a fairly popular concept in So Cal for the last few years.  There are a few competitors out here.

Working moms seem to claim that it is an efficient way for them to also cook "homemade" meals for the family in addition to all their other responsibilities -- but I think it is something that is a social outing as much as anything else -- which is also fine...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on October 31, 2007, 05:36:17 PM
They're popping up around here, too - I think Dinner by Design is the one I've seen around.  I'm all for whatever gets you through the night, but that whole thing doesn't work for me.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 31, 2007, 08:56:14 PM
Exactly.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on October 31, 2007, 09:21:35 PM
Harrie, when you take a closer look and run a fine tooth comb over the web-site so to speak, the convenience is paid for in lack of specifics like hormone free meat,  or avoidance of antibiotics or food additives, not to mention there is no kosher if necessary and the explanation of course is that they are trying to keep down costs for the basic package.

And then there is the "Michael Clayton" factor. After all this interest for several years in Farmers' Markets for the most urbane areas, suddenly podunk out here in the sticks wants to party in the afternoon, putting pre-measured ingredients into plastic bags and containers, to experience togetherness?

Oddly enough, I had a catalog come in from Amana Foods because I made the mistake of being forgetful and putting a refrigerator meat-drawer in the dish-washer! These had been energy-saving appliances which were once Amana(at least the refrigerator, washing machine and dryer)but after generations of excellent reputation were  absorbed into Maytag and Whirlpool; so I no longer make a phone call to Iowa,and they just send me a replacement part gratis. You fill out a form, pay in advance and wait but then it arrives broken so you start over again. But out of curiosity, I did look into the Amana Colonies Historical Society  shops in hopes that they had a book of photographs/daguerrotypes known as: Picturing Utopia. Nope, still out of print. But I did discover on the side that they used to cook in Community kitchens(big entire houses)before the Peoples Republic of China ever thought of it. There was one in each of their seven villages, you may not know the drill, but upper Amana, Lower Amana, Eastern Amana, in-between Amana, whatever -- and even they gave it up when the Depression changed everything. So, you can see where the urge for Dream Dinners arises. The efficiency where family meals compete with the need for second income.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 08, 2007, 05:37:15 PM
Spiedini, part I

I had a recipe that varied somewhat from the way that I learned to make Spiedini ala Brady Street.  A cook who didn't seem to be Italian has his recipe served at the inn/lounge out on Lake Mukwonago which is a summertime spot for swimming. One problem, like many a restaurateur he had discovered it was easier to work with something for which he can charge more on the entree menu and which cooks fast, so he began with 4 pounds of beef tenderloin, cut into 3 to 4 ounce medallions; and then he did something strange. He Pounded Them to 1/8 inch thickness for pieces oval shaped, 3inches by 5 inches.

Now, as you and I know, the reason for pounding meat is to tenderize it.  In which case, why use Tenderloin that is already "tender"? The average cook  who lives in the Brady Street area will use round steak much as cooks at home and of other nationalities make something called Swiss Steak.  That is what I had in mind when I visited my special Amish butcher. What's special about him? He's "German". Early on in life, when I learned that I had to cook for myself whether or not I knew how to do more than what my mother said, as she went out the door, "Fix Dad his coffee and see if he wants some eggs for breakfast.", when ever I wanted to emulate one of her recipes for home-cooking, I discovered that a German butcher will be glad to tell you the best way to cook the cut of meat that you ask about, or recommend something, he will give you a fair deal, he will not cheat you, and it would be clean and wholesome; something, he himself would eat.

But John did not have a Round steak that day, although he did have beef tenderloin medallions about an inch thick for quick cooking; and my mind quickly calculated that to prepare these I would have to freeze them awhile to handle slicing them crossways into thinner halves but this could still become a pricey dish when serving several people.  Meanwhile, a just under four lb. eye of round roast had been sitting in the case until I asked him to weigh it and whether or not I could slice that thin while raw/ before cooking; would it be tender enough stuffed "like rouladen", floured, dipped in beaten egg, and then again in bread crumbs before browning?  "Oh, of course!"   When I said that I usually used round steak, his reply was that this was the cut from which the round steak was taken (just as I thought!).

The roast was put in the freezer just long enough to hold together when slicing, and then about nine fairly thin slices were pounded with my European-style rolling pin and put aside with a sprinkling of garlic powder face up (covered with some more wax paper just like the kind used under and over the meat while pounding it a bit more tenderly thin).

Put the rest of the roast back in the freezer to use in the future, perhaps for a Flemish beef dish(as, the Dutch call it), or a "daube", or just pot-roast?

A medium yellow onion, the last of the season's "sweets" was "julienned" or better yet just chopped and sweated in just enough olive oil (1 or 2 Tablespoons) with a cover over the saute pan while beginning to golden brown slowly over medium-low heat. You will want to check on these and give them a stir or a push with a wooden implement. When it cools off a few minutes divide the cooked onions atop each of the pieces of steak. (save the saute pan for a second purpose for which you will put it aside now!)  I then gave each a sprinkle of dried marjoram from this season's garden. Now the expensive part is the cost of cheese currently. Which I usually grate for myself on an inherited molineux electric of great age, but I splurged because the recipe having called for freshly grated Romano(Pecorino is good) and dittoe Parmesan(and this is the time of the year, I gather, when the Parmigiano-Reggiano comes to market in great thick wheels as well as the Grana Padano) -- and instead bought one if those not so big bags of Organic Valley from La Farge,Wisconsin because the Italian Blend had: low moisture, Part Skim Mozzarella which I also need for this recipe, plus Provolone, and the Romano&Parmesan cheeses. Ideas on "how much" cheese vary. Anywhere from a total of a quarter cup to as much as 4 oz = 1/2 cup. But I go by sizing it up as just enough to put on top of those onions and marjoram by a few pinches at a time, so that you do not have an excess falling out of the steaks as you roll them up a bit later. I give the cheese a sprinkling of 1/4 teaspoon red pepper flakes over all of the steak at once, not the single steak(much too hot), all, but if you want to be more liberal that's up to you, don't tell me it was too hot to eat.

cont'd.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 08, 2007, 05:45:28 PM
Part II, for spiedini

Put out some of those old pie pans of Reynold's wear that you didn't throw out until they took over the baking pan drawer under the stove. One will have a small amount of flour, the second at least one but perhaps two beaten eggs, and the third is for the Unseasoned bread crumbs(Oh, go ahead if you want to and use the Progresso Italian Style bread crumbs, if you like).

I always used to stick tooth-picks to close the spiedini, in which case I saw a recommendation that you brush the beaten egg on the rolled steak--after you flour them lightly.

(After which, you delicately roll then in the pan of crumbs for which you will use at least 1/4 cup but probably more, up to 1/2 cup if necessary)

But this eye-of-round was so tender and pliable that I merely had to fold it over into a roll which I could place fold down in that special enameled ironware oven pan that I use. It all depends how many rolls you are making, if  you have over 9 to do for a big occasion, then opt for the rectangular or oblong  but the round pan suits me just fine as this will be very filling.

In the "old days" I used to saute these to brown them in olive oil, which could be anything from 5 Tablespoons to half an inch, until a golden brown on all sides and then transferred to an oven-proof dish.  (the man with the tenderloin is done quickly in five minutes, or until cooked to desired doneness  but, he makes a note that, "After 5 minutes of cooking spiedini in the oven, the meat will be medium to medium-well done. Cook longer for well done.

If you want spiedini rare or medium rare, cook only on top of stove." ).

I think you have a choice with these. I wanted to try something out, having prewarmed the oven to 400 degrees.  Has an Italian ever shown you how to grasp the neck of the olive oil bottle firmly and put your thumb over the spiggot,  to drip some olive oil in less than a steady stream --just to spot the top of these spiedini with droplets enough, then you can switch the oven knob from bake to broil and shove the pan of spiedini under the broiler only until you see the crumbs just begin to brown a little, you don't want to risk burning them, pull the pan out while you switch the broil back to bake and the heat starts to come up again to the required temperature.  Instead of using a jar of marinara sauce, we can do our own, by improvising; remember that pan in which I sauteed/"sweated" the onions in some olive oil?

I had a pint of those diced tomatoes in the refrigerator and decided to use them while they were on my mind that they ought to be used for something. In the previously olive-oiled pan retaining the onion flavor, I bring them to a simmer and give them a teaspoon of sugar and about 1/3 cup of those little Genovese Basil Profumo(or, is that Perfumo?)leaves, which have been rinsed off in a cup or a jar of water,lifted up and dried on a paper towel; they cut easily if you roll them into that miniature cigar and snip them into the tomato sauce, add a Bay Leaf as well, and let it blend until you notice the consistency has begun to thicken. It will not take long because it will finish cooking in the oven around the spiedini.  If you have a small amount of wine just sitting there taking up space, you can deglaze the spiedini sitting in their oven pan but preferably do that outside the oven without putting it on a lit burner, it will nearly evaporate in a hot pan. You will now put the sauce on the sides or in between and around and possibly over the spiedini, then cover it with a  loose wrap of non-stick Reynolds Wrap to finish in the oven for anywhere from fifteen to twenty minutes or over half an hour depending on the way your oven behaves. When a cooking fork can pierce the  roll of meat, they are tender but do not let them sit around after you scissors some clean organic parsley around the top of the dish. The guests must be ready to sample this.  It was so good that I forgot to have put the pre-cleaned sliced mushrooms into the dish at some point, nor to try out the steam package of cauliflower for the microwave.  I just ate it with bread, although....

If you are a smarty, you will check your pasta cupboard and the jars of odds and ends, into which I always slip the reminder from the package -- of how many minutes will it take for that shape of pasta to cook?  As long as you have your pan of water  ready and salted with a bit of coarse sea salt, you can cook several types of short pasta at once by comparing the common denominator/that closest approximate cooking number/time upon which they agree (this works likewise with long strands of pasta but I usually keep it to either the short or the long because  one or the other is easier to handle when eating the pasta). It should be timed to be ready when the spiedini comes out of the oven and is dished up with either the pasta to the side or the spiedini on top, which ever  you like and then spoon the  sauce to top the pasta, it will have cooked down so it will not be "as coating" as usual but it will have a rich flavor.

Basta. (do you have some chocolate for dessert? Or, perhaps a ripe pear...

As Lidia always mentions, be sure to take the Bay Leaf out of the sauce or the dish before you serve.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 08, 2007, 06:00:53 PM
This reminded me, I think it was Desdemona who had the problem with the never ripening pears.

I just wanted you to know that I brought home some nice shaped D'Anjou from the store, put them in a paper bag near the stove and they refused to ripen even when I moved them to the top of the refrigerator with some trepidation that what if they got knocked off and bruised?

Not to worry, that was not about to happen. After two weeks, having tested them with regularity, during which they refused to do what pears ought to do, I finally got a little "give" at the top of the pear, around the stem, gave then another day or so, and transferred them to the clean fruit drawer to chill, and ate them for breakfast after coffee, or for dessert.  It must be either the variety or something has changed since ...? Are they doing something differently, have they hybridized them somehow to take longer  because of shipping them to market.

The original plan had been to bake a galette. I was not patient any longer and ate them raw to figure out, if I could, had anything changed, no, flavor the same, yes, bruising at this point would take place if you knocked them the wrong way.

Then, to my surprise, the Comice or Riviera variety bred from Anjou appeared at the supermarket, and my gosh, they took nearly as long but not quite to ripen,from the green stage with their large splash of red on one side. The yellowing eventually took place within a week or a little over, and the stem-tip test carefully, to see if the softening for a firm pear to eat, that would be juicy as you plowed into it. I now eat them neatly in slices, as my teeth don't want me to risk diving into them heedlessly. This is why the Chinese recommend pears as 'food for the elderly' (to them a "senior citizen" would have been somebody important or rather a "superior person").  Apples are no longer nonchalantly bitten, but made into Waldorf salad are a change; with baked apple variations for desserts, and we have wonderful carmelized walnut apple pies in this part of the world.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 09, 2007, 04:49:48 PM
Harrie,
A.G. Ferrari had to send this twice because it disappeared just when I wanted to share insights into how Italians do Thanksgiving differently than others with somethings exactly the same.  They present their menu last week, for pick up at about 13 locations in California. With three lbs. of Roast Turkey meat, you pay $89.99;without,$59.99,presuming that you ordered a Willy Bird that you wanted to prepare on your own with these other Italian traditional winter dishes:

Chef Gianluca Guglielmi has put together this convenient package --

2 lbs of Nonni Ferrari's Stuffing (but! Italian stuffing is different than...)
        with Swiss chard, milk,parmesan,cinnamon and nutmeg.
3 pints of Butternut Squash soup serves 6-8 (ditto for all other dishes)

2 lbs  Brasato di Patate e Porcini (Braised casserole of potatoes and P...)

2 lbs  Verdure Arrostite  (Roasted autumn vegetables: Broccolini, red
potatoes, mushrooms,shallots,butternut squash and carrots roasted in an olive oil dressing)

1 pint of Cranberry sauce (this would never do in my family)

1 pint of Gianluca's homemade turkey gravy (ditto)

12 focaccia dinner rolls baked with olive oil

And now we come to dessert (everybody gets a 6-inch pumpkin-ricotta torte and a 6-inch Flourless Chocolate cake --which I vaguely remember making as one of three Christmas cakes for that holiday in Hopewell)

They have a dessert list for anybody and everybody in addition who wants:

Strudel di Mele - Granny Smith apples, Pine nuts and cinnamon,sugar,raisins in a delicate crust which some of us know as phyllo.   I make it with "cabbage" for my Amish friends as it is just as sweet as fruit when prepared this way.

Torta al Cioccolato (as already mentioned above)

Torta di Mandorle - softcrumbed almond cake topped with thin layer of
                            apricot jam

Torta di Ricotta    - Cheesecake with a touch of lemon in the pastry crust

Tiramisu - "the classic: lady-fingers (Savoiardi)soaked in Marsala and
                coffee and then layered with mascarpone

The Torta di Zucca e Ricotta has already been mentioned (pumpkin and
delicious cheesecake in a delicate pastry crust.

Since reading this a week ago, I have come across two more menus Italian style. Lidia M. Bastianich has the most elaborate and thorough Turkey preparation at home (which in her case is always down a block from the family restaurant so there you are).  And then  Maryanne Esposito has provided another that I have not checked on as yet. But it does appear that the consensus of opinion is to do Thanksgiving as the Italians do, this year.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 09, 2007, 07:18:59 PM
Oh well, madupont,  I'm bucking the trend and doing a basic Thanksgiving this year.  In fact, picked up the gold-plated (ka-ching$$) Blue Slate bird today.  Blue Slates are supposed to be more like wild turkeys, ie more dark meat, more muscular than fleshy -- so this might be an interesting meal. (Hopefully not as in desperately trying to make last-minute reservations somewhere.)   It is the leanest looking turkey I've ever seen.

Having butternut as a side definitely, but not in bisque form.  Also some regular taters and cranberry  -- the basic, lumpy cranberry-sugar-water thing, but it's my favorite part of the whole meal.  Still haven't decided on the second vegetable, but leaning towards an apple and cranbery crisp thing for dessert.  Not unlike the Granny Smith strudel in your package, but without that pesky phyllo dough.

That menu does look delicious, though.  But even though I'm not from a long line of great cooks or anything, I fear what karma I might bring on by serving a purchased meal.  Our Thanksgiving meals growing up might not have been particularly tasty, but they were always homemade.  Then again, the other big TG tradition was my mom mercilessly needling one of my sisters until she got up from the table in tears, ran to her room and slammed the door.  So, there might be something said for breaking those old family traditions.....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on November 09, 2007, 08:39:23 PM
Harrie,

I'm with you. Thanksgiving is a homemade meal. Not carry-out. I do deli for Christmas, but for Thanksgiving, it's roasting a couple of turkeys (one to share), pealing sweet potatoes, deciding whether or not to include marshmallows and orange slices and whether to put in the oven, or completely make it the microwave. Grind up the cranberries along with oranges and apples, and sweeten to taste. Stuffing, if any, is on the side, never in the bird, and the gravy will likely be from a jar. Steam a fresh veggie, such as green beans, and offer blue cheese dressing depending on what the store has.

Ehlee will bring some egg rolls made with ground beef, and a chicken-asian noodle dish of which I have grown quite fond.

Desert will be from the bakery dept of the store, usually a pumpkin pie, an apple pie, and if I get off my butt, I might make a Shoo-Fly Pie. Usually John and Ehlee are here for Thanksgiving Dinner.

Hubby is thinking of that age-old tradition of making lots of Christmas cookies, starting early in the season. He's thinking of a peanut-butter oatmeal cookie. I wonder if raising would be good added, or just go with nut pieces (or, soy grits which, in a peanut butter cookie, taste like peanut pieces and are less expensive.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 09, 2007, 10:54:33 PM
Harrie and Weezo
"those old family traditions....."

At our house, it was a family tradition that Mom would try to get Dad to remain at home having Thanksgiving dinner with his offspring; but, to Dad,it was traditional to go hunting at Thanksgiving. It was after all hunting season.

He'd been doing that since his youth(after all, his uncle John had been shown the best places by the few Indians still living there when John's father had arrived. If you think that sounds the least weird, it was our habit when going into the river country where  uncle and nephews had been born, to stop on our way at Indian Ford to eat  luscious catfish at a place called Tibby's. This was, of course where the Native Americans had to carry their canoes overland a short distance from one stream petering out to a larger rushing river). I think that once one develops a taste for wild food, you continue to look forward to it.  (Although, I probably would not have thought about, much less attempted, "catching" any of the wild turkeys that lived up the hill from us when I was at Hopewell.

Here the English small farms had run down hill in a pie-shaped wedge to a home built facing the town square, with neighbours side by side. But out your back door, you strode uphill at not too steep a grade to where the top of the hill had been plowed flat, less erosion, more sunshine, when planting a field of corn but allowing a scrim of forest trees around the field.  In the autumn, after harvest when you could see across to the opposite side of the cultivated field, the turkeys would begin to emerge and glean the field of any corn left behind.  You could hear them talking to each other at odd moments of the day, while below commutters came and went,after dawn and before sunset, to and from rather distant cities where they preferred not to live.  I might have been very interested in buying a "dindie" or Guinea hen, from which our turkeys are descended. A darling little checkered bird from the West Indies which was taken back to Europe as a curiosity. 

The owner of Terhune Orchards kept a number of them running about through the herb planted slopes behind her produce shop; and between there and her house, crossing the  road ( by which visitors arrived to park and buy vegetables and fruit) between fresh provender and dried bouquets of herbs hung in a shed out of the sun and commotion.

Dad thought more in terms of dressing a deer, some pheasants and rabbits, from which Mom made excellent Hassen-pfeffer; and as his sons grew of an age to be taken  along and trained in how to negotiate the woods, we might count on as many as four deer packaged into the freezer.

If you ever saw that episode of Grey's Anatomy where the young doctors go off fishing for a boys day out: of male bonding away from the hospital with their chief of surgery, and managing to make a mess of their intentions, you can kind of get an insight, along with me, of what it may have been like when my father was interning and in his residency at the time of the Depression.  The tradition held good, for as years went on and doctors met more doctors at conventions for instance, they invited each other to hunt; there were always a certain percentage of surgeons who were hunters, as the two things seemed to go together. They would invite each other to come hunting and see their "part of the country" and what it was like; was it rich in game or not?

With the arrival of November,friends over the years in a city which they were not from would now head north to the traditional encampment, hiring a Polish cook and a French guide; and mother would be speechless, in her family-orientation. Men, who were perforce by profession inclined to a steady cleanliness, reverted to some past life lived in hard times, sleeping in their clothes, unshaven, eating strange breakfasts, tracking the forest, drinking together at nightfall, telling tall tales of childhood hardships and "what all". I sense that mother was right
in unspoken insight that no good would come of that, under the circumstances (if they were to arise).

Once in a great while, if he felt guilty enough, Dad might remain for Thanksgiving, particularly if Mom was expecting, then he would say to not bother cooking, he would teach the entire family how to behave in a restaurant. One never knew what kind of a shocking lesson might be derived from that. The youngest brother at table might observe everything very closely, particularly the older man who arrived with a long napkin over his arm, delivering dishes, and removing them in turn; and then would fix the gentleman with a stare and inquire,"How come you don't have so much hair on top of your head?"  There would be stunned silence all round.

If the mother of our extensive family was so far gone to not care to go out, which might occasion physical discomfort  or a nauseous feeling of  a sudden, one year, we were completely surprised to have Dad pull into the driveway and ( supposing he had just finished his hospital rounds) begin to unload the car and bring into the house remarkable smelling packages of cooked food including the roasted bird done in the oven of a restaurateur who specialized in the full-take out orders of holiday dinners which European cooks were prepared to do -- for the patronage.

They vied with each other, in various parts of town, just as they did year round with their own particular menu to suit their establishment.  Oddly enough, as I think about it, today that  role is taken over by Nieman Marcus or some other purveyor about Manhattan; because, I suppose to everything there is a season.

Other years when Dad went hunting instead, were just as wonderful in their own way, for he returned from the woods loaded down with small trees that were fragrant and which he would use to decorate the archway between dining room and living room where the main tree would stand at Christmas.  He took great joy in his woodland decor.

But in any case, I think why the  holiday take out reservation caught my attention were the several posters who had mentioned during the fires in California that they were residents there, and the establishment of Annibale G. Ferrari now increased to 13 locations would seem an ideal solution for someone like trojanhorse for instance who pondered why I would go through all those steps to stuff filled pasta in a rich sauce when I could have gone to the freezer at the supermarket.  Well, we haven't gotten to the height of the Winter darkness as yet, by which time I will have located those Renaissance dishes ala Tucci (this does not mean that I shall take the time to make them, at my age); I  have just finished a day of sauerbraten preparation after the usual several days of letting it marinate.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 13, 2007, 12:35:02 PM
weezo

I think the simplest thing that I could do if I have to make Thanksgiving at home -- would be to plan on making sweet potato pie. For many years, I made these while foregoing pumpkin; the secret is to give the ingredients an extra grind of black pepper, after boiling your sweet potatoes ahead of baking day.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 13, 2007, 02:33:40 PM
This reminded me, I think it was Desdemona who had the problem with the never ripening pears.

I just wanted you to know that I brought home some nice shaped D'Anjou from the store, put them in a paper bag near the stove and they refused to ripen even when I moved them to the top of the refrigerator with some trepidation that what if they got knocked off and bruised?

Not to worry, that was not about to happen. After two weeks, having tested them with regularity, during which they refused to do what pears ought to do, I finally got a little "give" at the top of the pear, around the stem, gave then another day or so, and transferred them to the clean fruit drawer to chill, and ate them for breakfast after coffee, or for dessert.  It must be either the variety or something has changed since ...? Are they doing something differently, have they hybridized them somehow to take longer  because of shipping them to market.

The original plan had been to bake a galette. I was not patient any longer and ate them raw to figure out, if I could, had anything changed, no, flavor the same, yes, bruising at this point would take place if you knocked them the wrong way.

Then, to my surprise, the Comice or Riviera variety bred from Anjou appeared at the supermarket, and my gosh, they took nearly as long but not quite to ripen,from the green stage with their large splash of red on one side. The yellowing eventually took place within a week or a little over, and the stem-tip test carefully, to see if the softening for a firm pear to eat, that would be juicy as you plowed into it. I now eat them neatly in slices, as my teeth don't want me to risk diving into them heedlessly. This is why the Chinese recommend pears as 'food for the elderly' (to them a "senior citizen" would have been somebody important or rather a "superior person").  Apples are no longer nonchalantly bitten, but made into Waldorf salad are a change; with baked apple variations for desserts, and we have wonderful carmelized walnut apple pies in this part of the world.

I'm thinking maybe those pears were in cold storage?  Mine were straight off the tree, and I'm wondering if it was the drought making them hard or perhaps the soil here just isn't what it should be.  Anyway, mine were STILL a little hard even after cooking, so I forced them through a strainer and ended up with a decent jam.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 13, 2007, 02:39:02 PM
My son Corey says he hates all traditional holiday food and is sick of eating it just to make me happy.  Since my daughter is the only other family nearby, I'm not inclined to kill myself doing it up, much as I love it.  Corey wants rib-eye steak, salad, baked potato, and cake for dessert. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 13, 2007, 02:51:48 PM
Well as long as he's thankful for it....

Around this time every year don't they publish the story about the original Thanksgiving meal,and how what we eat doesn't resemble it much anyway?   As in, was it the native Americans or the Pilgrims who  brought that Campbell's-TM soup and green bean caserole with the fried onions to the first gathering -- and all that stuff.  Clean-up is a whole lot easier too, come to think of it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 13, 2007, 04:06:48 PM
Yeah, but you can eat steak ANY time, for criminy sake.   Last fall I eliminated all things pumpkin, because both kids said they were sick of it and wouldn't eat it.  What is the DEAL at my house?

I may just rebel and bake pumpkin pie anyway.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on November 13, 2007, 05:21:40 PM
Dessie,

Actually, you can eat all of the holiday foods any time you want to. Fresh cranberries would be hard to find all year, tho.

We are on for Thanksgiving again this year. John will be here, maybe Ehlee. I'll do a turkey and all the trimmings since both he and Steve like it. Whether or not I bake pies or buy them is the question. I will make my own cranberry relish.

Last year I did the sweet potatoes by baking them in the microwave, pealing them, then mashing them with butter and skipped the candying. Not as much left over. We put chunks of celery and onion into the bird cavity, and use stove-top corn bread for stuffing on the side.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on November 14, 2007, 02:34:28 AM
Des, you can cook one of those turkey breasts (and I'll wager that your sneaky petes go into the kitchen late to make sandwiches) and have a pumpkin pie.  One thing about Pumpkin pie is that it can get so old that the surface begins to look like a lake bed during a drought and it still "tastes" good with a fresh cup of coffee.  :)  Mrs Smith does as good a job with pies as I do (except my apple or pear pies) so tote one of hers home and pop it in the oven.  I LIKE canned cranberry sauce (Ocean Spray) and have some in the fridge to go with chicken and pork all year long.  You can open a can of green beans, add two tablespoons of butter and cook down until most of the liquid is absorbed.  Let's see, use that Stove Top stuffing (the cornbread variety) and add extra butter and use canned chicken broth as your liquid.  That should do it (unless you just have to have a salad--a small wedge of iceburg lettuce).  That satisfies your urge for tradition, your sense of smell, and your defiance in the face of youthful rebellion.

Then sit yourself down to a well laid table for one, and enjoy.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 14, 2007, 07:59:10 AM
And if you prefer fresh cranberry sauce/relish, cranberries freeze super-easy with no post-thawing quality issues -- just throw the bag in the freezer.  They keep forever (seemingly); and should we be invaded, I believe they (in the frozen state) are suitable for use as ammunition.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 14, 2007, 09:26:47 AM
ditto that Harrie!

Was just going to tell weezo that i threw a couple of bags from Massachusetts in the freezer last night but I betcha t'was the Pilgrims brought the greenbean-campbells mushroom soup-canned fried onion casserole to the table, their multitudinous descendents are still doing it.

I can hear this voice in my head but can't identify who is trying to make contact via table-lifting; but you probably know the guy that I mean, who always says,"Fine with me, Pilgrim".  At first, thought it was Dirty Harry?  But, Clint Eastwood doesn't quite fill out the ectoplasm.

This is the closest I've gotten to an answer but where would I hear this guy?
 The Huffington Post
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Speak English Correctly, Pilgrim



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 14, 2007, 09:28:13 AM
weezo,

Thanks for reminding me I can microwave those Louisiana yams.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 14, 2007, 09:33:49 AM
Donotremove,

"I LIKE canned cranberry sauce (Ocean Spray) and have some in the fridge to go with chicken and pork all year long."

This only proves that you are of Scots' descent.  All Scots eat "jelly" with their meat. You know, mint with lamb, wine jelly with beef...


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 14, 2007, 10:09:14 AM
LOL, maddie. 

My sister and I were talking about Thanksgiving shortcuts recently - she does the cornbread dressing the way my mother and grandmothers did - she bakes the cornbread and lets it get stale and hard, then breaks it up with biscuits and seasons it herself.  Like her forebears, the way the dressing comes out is "always a crap shoot".  I advised her that I NEVER do that and my dressing always comes out fantastic.  I put stove top cornbread stuffing in a greased oblong baking pan, moisten it with broth and one beaten egg, and if I'm feeling really adventurous, I add some chopped celery, which improves the flavor way more than you'd think.  Cooked ground sausage added to the mix is an option I forego.  Bake it for about 25 minutes in a 350 oven and no one will be the wiser.  Oh, the AGONY of the cornbread dressing verdict I witnessed every single thanksgiving and Christmas of my life, and to think my poor sister is going through that now. 

I'm the queen of Thanksgiving shortcuts, but I have to have the green bean casserole and yams as well if I have ANYTHING.  BTW, never had much luck with cooking turkey breasts.  My sister is trying one she found this year that comes seasoned in its own roasting bag and you can just pop it into the oven frozen, which sounds great.  I'm hoping it comes out good - I'll use it in subsequent years if it does whether my son eats it or not.

Another way to do yams is what I call my "Lazy Bitch Yams".   Drain two large cans of yams - pick through them to remove any stringy-looking ones - place into a crockpot and cover w/ brown sugar.   Add about a half cup of the SECRET INGREDIENT:  Tang.  Yes, my friends.  I know xyz would have a caniption fit, but there you are.  Cook on slow for several hours.  People will rave over them.

Also, I guess most of you know that fresh cranberries can be covered with white sugar, then cooked in the microwave.  (Make sure you cover them because they explode when they're cooking.)  So much better than canned.

Having said all this, I still prefer to cook my own yams - I boil them unpeeled and just skim the peels off.  I spend the evening before a holiday boiling and baking.  I boil my eggs (for deviled eggs), and the potatoes and yams then stick them in the fridge in their pots for prep the next day.

I had this fantastic recipe last year for a pumpkin "cake" that is really more like a crustless pumpkin pie - you may recall the old recipes where the flour is added and sinks to the bottom as it bakes to form something like a crust - well this recipe is like that.  It calls for crumbled yellow or spice cake on top with drizzled butter, but is much better with a streusel topping which takes a bit of time but is more than worth it.  You can just cut it into squares and shovel it down - it's especially good made with fresh pumpkin puree.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 14, 2007, 10:22:54 AM
I can hear this voice in my head but can't identify who is trying to make contact via table-lifting; but you probably know the guy that I mean, who always says,"Fine with me, Pilgrim".

That was John Wayne, maddie. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 14, 2007, 11:49:57 AM
Well, I wouldn't be surprised in that case if he were trying to tell us what he wants for Thanksgiving Dinner!

That wouldn't be the P.Allensmith version of "Gooey Pumpkin Cake" would it?  It's delicious.

If and when I have a turkey, from that part of the world whence I was born, we had to have wild rice on the side, it is regionally relatively inexpensive and eaten because of the rich gravy that the Turkey inevitably produces.

Ahead of time, on the same schedule as chopping the onions for the dressing/stuffing/filling whether in the bird or out, chopping the celery, washing the parsley, there is also enough time to slice and kind of bias cut the green pepper.  Wild rice cooks longer than regular rice and needed the usual pre-cook rinsings; but some of all the aforementioned vegetables are sauteed in a pan with cleaned,sliced mushrooms  and folded into the wild rice when it is done cooking.   The only concession to contemporary protocol is that trickbag of all the advertisements, almonds in some version, sliced with skins on, slivers? or the larger pieces of cut skinless, or whatever, if one has room someplace to give them a toasting at a low heat in an oven.

I think this dish was invented so that a large family could have left over cold-turkeystuffing on the following day if not the middle of the night.

I hear the geese going by...they are lost in the overcast sky and the mist not yet fog that hangs today.

Wild-rice seems to be harvested before the geese migrate south, and is still gathered battened down in a boat, usually by canoe. A friend of mine returned north to help her father with the harvest every year on the Lac du Flambeau reservation. Native-Americans make their living by this produce; any larger sum of money paid for the product is going to the middle-man. Back when we were "hippies together",despite the age-span, in the communes toward the end of the Vietnam war, we would all have Thanksgiving together because we had at least two large kitchens with long table on the second floor, round table in the dining room downstairs, in a mansion next to the  mansion of a beer-baron but not the one in Winnipeg played by Isabella Rosselini.

This meant two ovens and the regulation top-burners as well, so I usually included wild-rice for Shirley. I can still remember the poster of the Four Beatles in Renaissance garb over the kitchen sink in the second floor kitchen.  You can guess what our resident travelers to Teotitlican and points south to Machu Pichu brought as their contribution to the Thanksgiving festivities.  That is another unforgetable scene, meant for a film, I walked in as they were dividing the cut for which they needed a firm piece of paper, so they were cutting it on a large map of Mexico,which had some brilliant blue color that contrasted with the green as the weighing began, on the floor. Technicolor

For this we give thanks to the Indians.  Left over wild rice, which hasn't been mixed is often used to make the New Orleans dish of Hot Calas for a breakfast treat with grillades.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 14, 2007, 01:52:56 PM
Here's the recipe, maddie.  But the whole cake mix should not be used as topping - it is two or three times as much as you need and you'll end up with dry, powdery mix underneath the browned "crisp" - very undesirable to say the least.  Again, a brown sugar, butter, flower, and cinnamon streusel topping is far better.

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Pumpkin-Cake-I-2/Detail.aspx


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on November 14, 2007, 03:54:39 PM
Well, I just did my grocery shopping for thanksgiving. Turkey was 29 cents a pound, so I got a big one. Lots of leftovers! Boxes of stove top corn bread stuffing. Like the idea of putting an egg in it! Cans of pumpkin for pumpkin pie, and we bought two sweet potato pies, but they won't be around by next week. The cranberries, apples and oranges for my relish. Olives and sweet gerkins for a relish plate. Lots of sweet potatoes. Thinking of maybe cooking the turkey on Wednesday, slicing it, and eating it on Thanksgiving. Maybe I'll make the sweet potatoes ahead, and probably the cranberry relish. Thinking of a chocolate cake in addition to the pie for desert. I wanted to get some fruit, and some spice cake mix and make a quick fruitcake, but they didn't have the dried fruit.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 14, 2007, 10:20:55 PM
desdemona,

That's essentially the cake that P.Allen Smith made, when he dragged himself in from the garden about this time last year. It varies in a little more of this and a little less of that, otherwise the ingredients are identical.

I misread it apparently when I made it one afternoon in a hurry and didn't save the cake mix for the streusel but poured it all in together. It came out tasting just fine, and as gooey(as he called it) but with no strewn streusel atop.  In that sense it was more like pie, all eleven by nine inches of it, but a thick pie.

Will have to do it the right way, as soon as I make it again.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 14, 2007, 10:44:12 PM
Weezo,

I used to make pumpkin pies when I grew them; the pumpkins that is.

But apparently,along the seacoast of lower New Jersey and the delta of the Delaware river, throughout these southeastern counties, the sweet potatoes grow well.  I've seen flats of the slips put out in the yards of greenhouses when I'd come to check the starter herbs in Spring, which means that they had opened the glass frames from the Dutch sided hot beds to allow the leaves to get used to the air.

So the production of them is rather heavy yielding.  Pumpkins are not altogether foregone. The Amish insist (although they grow decorative huge pumpkins to market) that "neck pumpkins" make the best pies. Those are the squashs that are beige colored, bulbous on the bottom end and with narrow elongated necks.  They've got it down to a science now, sewing little cottom outfits and  rick-rack trimmed sunbonnets to dress the green varieties, somewhat speckled, as if in doll-clothes, to resemble Mother Goose and these are sold for decorations at Halloween but the outside displays are about over by now as the temperature is too low. Everything is dotted with red across the landscape of Lancaster County. The color stands out in the mist. Lone trees from yard to yard down the street; those strange bushes and hedges for landscaping business plazas and church parking lots and residential complexes in brilliant scarlet.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on November 14, 2007, 11:05:06 PM
I think the turkey breast in a bag is by Jennie-O.Two things I have to make are the pork sausage stuffing My grandmother then mother made as a kid and a big butternut squash.I love that squash.I'm doing my turkey again on the Weber.Throw it on and forget it.While I was back in Rochester,we had wild ducks a friend had shot one night for dinner at his cottage.Been a long time since I had it and the flavor was a lot different from the store bought ones.We also had homemade hard cider after the duck which was quite good and I realised next morning quite strong.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on November 15, 2007, 07:23:45 AM
Pork sausage stuffing sounds interesting. I don't think I've ever had a meat stuffing. I usually use the winter squashes, butternut and acorn, for winter meals after the holiday season. Have never included them in a holiday meal, since they tend to make a nice meal almost by themselves. A good meatless meal!

Maddie, sweet potatoes also grow well in my neighborhood. When we moved in our house and were contemplating our first garden, a neighbor told us the soil was excellent for growing sweet potatoes. He always plants a huge garden! I'm not sure how to plant sweet potatoes, so we just grow tomatoes and green peppers in the years when the weather cooperates. One year when we took Thanksgiving dinner up to our elderly neighbors, we discovered that they were intending to eat nothing but sweet potatoes for their meals that day. After that, we got in the habit of making a second turkey, just for them. This year, Ruben died a few weeks ago, and Bertha had a fire in the house a week ago so she is staying with a neighbor. I don't know if we will do anything for her this year, unless she is in her "new" house by then.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 15, 2007, 09:39:07 AM
maddie -

The website I linked you to yesterday has a pumpkin cake recipe where you mix the yellow cake mix in with the rest of the ingredients like you're talking about - sounds really good especially if it comes out like a gooey cake.  I just might accidentally make one and take it to work.  The recipe I gave yesterday is for those who want an easy escape from making pumpkin pie, because it comes out like a crustless pie - delicious. 

weezo -

Another cornbread dressing variation besides adding sausage to it is to add apples and/or dried apricots.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 15, 2007, 09:45:04 AM
That is super nice of ya'll to help your neighbor out like that, weezo.  Wanted to tell you that you can get a sweet potato plant started by just cutting off a piece and sticking it in a jar of water - you can stick toothpicks in it to support it on the edges of the jar and keep the bottom of it immersed in water.  Makes a pretty plant - then you can put it in the ground.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 15, 2007, 10:16:19 AM
Desdemona,

Would you believe that nytimes.com has a Pear and bread (and I think chestnuts),sage stuffing recipe in this weeks Dining section where they went whole hog....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 15, 2007, 10:55:28 AM
Bosox18d

"Been a long time since I had it and the flavor was a lot different from the store bought ones.We also had homemade hard cider after the duck which was quite good and I realised next morning quite strong."

Also in the Dining section at nytimes.com  is a cider tasting comparison by Amanda Hesser, Florence Fabricant, and some editor whom I don't remember off hand; and, I've just about decided that could be the way to go for Thanksgiving dinner instead of wine.

That is, if i can find it locally available (I can remember trying to explain Belgium ale to a big distributor on the Jersey Shore "...before its time").
There are an entire contingent of hold-outs there who will not read The New York Times(to find out what is happening there) and do so out of loyalty to their own local newspaper with territorial imperative. I wonder what ever happened to Marty who used to post in American History forum?

Now that you've recalled the flavor of non-domestic duck, that's what I meant about wild food  and how you never lose the longing for it.

Even the places that put up a blackboard announcement at their place of business, be it ever so humble as the Nassau Seafood which used to get the daily delivery from the Fulton Fish Market, convince you to pay a higher price for "farm"-produced-once-wild-fowl but no more wild once farmed, which is a disappointment.  The last time I tried that was to make smoked pheasant into a large salad dinner when my son brought home Mali Utz (daughter of the Utz Potato Chip people whose grandma did chips kettle fried--a family business down in Maryland) just after Christmas by driving four hours through an ice-storm to New Jersey from the Eastern Shore of Maryland.

They were both health nuts/physical fitness instructors at the time of that engagement; and were limiting their "fat intake". However, her family's location makes it possible to do duck-blind shooting with swimming retrievers to paddle back the fallen duck tenderly in their mouth. I doubt that salad of pheasant and crisp cold vegetables could be that impressive.

As I remember the only precaution with fricasee of pheasant or wild duck prepared either that way or roasted was the buck shot which you had to watch for, as it is impossible to surely remove without destroying the texture of the meat prior to cooking.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 15, 2007, 12:39:26 PM
Desdemona,

Would you believe that nytimes.com has a Pear and bread (and I think chestnuts),sage stuffing recipe in this weeks Dining section where they went whole hog....

Hey, I swear I didn't peak - I've boycotted the NYT.  Can't help being ahead of the game --lol.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 15, 2007, 12:41:06 PM
BTW - where the heck did they find ripe pears, I wonder?  ;D


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 15, 2007, 02:09:05 PM
Carefully calculated timing was my guess.  I hadn't been over there much either but then I feel guilty at not having an enquiring mind wants to know...what exactly?  I then come away later, once again aware of the games they are playing of adapting as quickly as possible to who is Boss in their world including the circulation of the International Herald Tribune.

For instance, yesterday,Thomas L.Friedman had this to say,

"President Bush squandered a historic opportunity to put America on a radically different energy course after 9/11. But considering how few Democrats or Republicans are ready to tell the people the truth on this issue, ..."

Don't you sometimes wonder why he didn't say this six years ago? Since I began reading him then. Why is he always behind The(NY)Times.

Of course, I don't know as this morning I noticed my name affixed to the last comment on the Environment forum, and I THOUGHT that odd since I talk rather very obliquely about matters of environment that will humble all of us.  I clicked the mouse and went in, only to find all of us discussing food, in there too.  But maybe we are on to something?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 15, 2007, 02:23:57 PM
desdemona222

Here's the one that required all the cake-mix but to use as the top which lets it sink in somewhat while able to crisp the top eventually. I thought at the time that I read it: this is a typical male approach to cooking; and then I made it without paying any attention to the particulars as I assembled the ingredients. It is definitely like one of those pies that is cakey  for a layer but still a pie. If P.Allen Smith wants to call it Cake;so be it.

They have differences about this all the time with Shoo-Fly Pie,between the "wets" and the "drys".

http://www.pallensmith.com/index2.php?option=com_recipes&func=detail&id=434&pop..


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 15, 2007, 02:29:20 PM
Speaking of the NYT, I wasn't able to get a paper one yesterday, so I checked out the food section online -- where they still have a link to the Cooking Forum.  Of course, it leads to an empty page, but still, it's not difficult to remove a link.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on November 15, 2007, 03:04:47 PM
Dessie,

Hubby has a philosophy that stands us in good stead: Do good things, and good things come back to you. We try to live that philosophy.

As to the sweet potato plants, I had completely forgotten about those. I used to do that when I was younger to have some cheap house plants around. Also, stuck carrot tops in a saucer of water to watch them grow long ferns before dying off. Back in the 70' everyone seemed to have a sweet potato plant setting around somewhere.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 15, 2007, 03:21:05 PM
And oh yeah, sweet potatoes don't take a lot of work once they're in the ground.  Just water as needed, but not too much.  If you overfeed them, you'll have lustrous foliage and teeny weeny little tubers; so they kind of thrive on near-neglect.  At least, that's been my experience.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 20, 2007, 12:49:56 PM
Last night I baked a loaf of banana bread - got the recipe off the Internet.  It called for 2 eggs, 3/4 cups of sugar, and 1 tsp baking soda.  Here's the deal - I really watch the salt in my diet so salty food tastes way too salty to me.  I could TASTE the baking soda - yuck!  Also, the bread ROSE LIKE THE MORNING SUN, honey childs!!  The crown on that sucker was 3-4 inches high.  The bread itself was NOT sweet enough (from now on, minimum 1 cup sugar for my breads).  It was also to light and fluffy - I like dense quick breads.

So, I'm thinking 1 egg, 1 cup sugar, 1/2 tsp baking soda.  I saw a recipe that called for NO egg, so I'm wondering if that would be the ticket to the denser bread.  What say you, baking experts?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 20, 2007, 01:02:54 PM
And while I'm on the subject, check out this recipe for pumpkin "bars" by Paula Deen, the doyen of Southern Cooking:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,1977,FOOD_9936_32312,00.html

Now I ask you, how in the Sam Hell are you going to wind up with bars with 4 eggs and all the other rising ingredients?  Come ON - no way - that sucker is going to be a CAKE.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 20, 2007, 06:11:47 PM
Last night I baked a loaf of banana bread - got the recipe off the Internet.  It called for 2 eggs, 3/4 cups of sugar, and 1 tsp baking soda.  Here's the deal - I really watch the salt in my diet so salty food tastes way too salty to me.  I could TASTE the baking soda - yuck!  Also, the bread ROSE LIKE THE MORNING SUN, honey childs!!  The crown on that sucker was 3-4 inches high.  The bread itself was NOT sweet enough (from now on, minimum 1 cup sugar for my breads).  It was also to light and fluffy - I like dense quick breads.

So, I'm thinking 1 egg, 1 cup sugar, 1/2 tsp baking soda.  I saw a recipe that called for NO egg, so I'm wondering if that would be the ticket to the denser bread.  What say you, baking experts?

I'm no baking expert, but I would guess no egg would be even denser than one; but being a staunch traditionalist and egg advocate, I'd try the one egg first and work my way down. 

Also -- Hain (and others [Featherweight is one, but I've only heard of it]), makes a sodium-free baking soda.  I've never seen it at the supermarket, just the health food store.  I don't know if it works the same way or not, though; but I'll soon find out, as I have to start using it. 





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 21, 2007, 09:28:54 AM
harrie -

Regarding the no egg theory, I thought of that, but I'm leary because I went to great trouble one Christmas to make what looked like a great recipe for cranberry orange bread only to have it come out the consistency of Play-Dogh - that recipe called for a small amount of baking soda.

I usually bake with self-rising flour to spare myself having to worry about the correct amount of rising ingredient but didn't have any the other night.  Next time I have some overripe bananas, I will try the no egg approach and see how that comes out.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 21, 2007, 09:59:31 AM
An egg substitute I use is 1T ground flax seed* plus 1T water; stir, then let sit for a minute and it turns into a disgusting-looking gelatinous goo.  But it doesn't taste at all, and acts as a binder without the rise you get with the egg.  The product is very dense.  I've usually used it when making carrot cake or carrot cupcakes for horses, since they don't eat eggs, given their druthers.   But I got the method from a web page on vegan cooking for humans.   Applesauce works too, but I find it makes the product too "wet" and I don't much care for that.

*You can buy a bag of flax seed meal ($$), which is the same thing, or you can buy a handful of flax seeds from a health food store's bulk section ($) and grind them up in your coffee/spice grinder, if you have one.  If you invest in the flax seed meal, best to keep the opened bag in the fridge.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on November 21, 2007, 10:53:59 AM
I keep salt down because it tweaks my inner ear and gives me sometimes minor balance issues and tinnitus.  It's a real pain in the ass, because I have to find places that carry canned vegs and beans and such that aren't canned with a ton of salt.  And, yeah, baked goods can harbor a lot of sodium.  I don't bake except for corn bread, and I just use half the baking soda which still raises the thing but makes it more compact which doesn't hurt taste at all. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on November 23, 2007, 02:30:35 AM
Very interesting, I've had the same problem for years.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 23, 2007, 01:35:27 PM
harrie -

But I got the method from a web page on vegan cooking for humans.

As opposed to, say, vegan cooking for rabbits?  ;D

Flax seed is extremely good for you, too.  Some people believe it fights cancer.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 23, 2007, 01:50:22 PM
As opposed to, say, vegan cooking for rabbits?  ;D

Well, since I use it for mainly for products to be consumed by non-humans , I just wanted to make clear that it's safe for humans to eat.  Though I don't know why I bother, because lots of times I've seen people nibble on a horse cookie -- and they know it's a horse cookie -- and I can't help asking "What are you doing?!"   

And it seems like every day they find one more good thing flax seed does for you, so yeah, pile on the flax seed.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on November 30, 2007, 12:31:03 PM
Back in the day, a classic standby at holiday meals was a concoction of a grated whole orange, cranberries, sugar, and pecans.  Does anyone know what the stuff is called and how to make it?  Does one use raw or cooked cranberries?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on November 30, 2007, 06:35:06 PM
Back in the day, a classic standby at holiday meals was a concoction of a grated whole orange, cranberries, sugar, and pecans.  Does anyone know what the stuff is called and how to make it?  Does one use raw or cooked cranberries?

Sorry, I'm stumped on this one. (Whole orange, pith, rind and all?)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on November 30, 2007, 08:57:03 PM
I add apples, unpeeled, and skip the pecans, and put everything in the food processor. I call it cranberry relish.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 01, 2007, 01:52:01 PM
This year, I took a hint from the nytimes.com archived Thanksgivings and washed the cranberries, simmered up a small amount of sugar in water with a stick of cinnamon, popped in the cranberries until they pop a little and added a very small amount of ground cloves and mace or was it allspice, I'll have to check?

Their recipe called for chopped, actually small cubed pieces of fresh ripe pears being the fruit of choice.  I happened to have Jake and Amos' Old fashioned "canned" pears which are not canned but in jars pressure sealed. They are not as soft as canned pears or pears in a can usually are so they are just right for removing one or two with a draining spoon and cubing them small on a cutting board before folding into the cooling cranberries.

This reminded me of desdemona's end of summer experience with canning pears that never seemed to ripen but I want her to know that yesterday I discovered a "schiess load" of Forelle pears that usually show up for Christmas. They bore a warning stuck to the frame where the flats were being carefully ripened by someone who came up with the ingenious method of putting an entirely ripe anjou or barlett in with the Forellen to coax them along. I carefully handled out five of the ripest of the batch with the green turned or turning to yellow and the bright red blush that begins from being made up of many small dots like those on a trout, which is why they are sometimes called "trout pears". I included one "small" example of a smaller pear to see how long it will take to ripen (in case desdemona's pears turn out to actually be Forelle pears?)

In this country, they are usually sold at the smallest green stage of harvest so that people can use them for Christmas "Decorating" rather than eatting; but these have a nice color and odor so I am looking forward to finding out what they actually taste like.

There are many recipes that are galettes or pies made from a combo of Pears with some dried cranberries ever since the latter came to popular market.

Another thing discovered yesterday -- tell me, Harrie, where ever you are, when you do the substitute for eggs with flax seed, do you use the regular brown variety or do you use the yellow golden seeds that I found available yesterday from Shiloh Farms,Arkansas?

But weezo,  I found a news flash by e-mail last night that Panera out in the urban areas is once again producing their Holiday Bread and including what they consider "Pannetone" with shredded orange rind in one or the other of these, I forget which, along with either dried cranberry, and nuts or maybe dried cherries in one or the other but I have to phone them and figure out whether this is going to be actually shaped like pannetone or not because it sure would save money.  I used to bake Italian holiday cakes in New Jersey for the experience but now at most I might substitute a Kugelhopf for Amish guests following their Christmas family at home gifting, they sometimes travel following that to take gifts to relatives in other counties.

In years past, I would gift them with Stollen home made because no one around here bakes it. (I suspect it may be considered a Papish heresy?). I even went so far as to make my own Kringle (Danish) in three flavors when I finally had a farm-kitchen to roll it out but this  year I just ordered it by way of Racine in time  for Thanksgiving breakfast. It was the result of my sister having once sent me,The Old World Kitchen:The Rich Tradition of European Peasant Cooking, by Elizabeth Luard. For a birthday, I suspect but it is considered a Bantam Book although it is (at 538 pages) about the size of one volume in an Encyclopedia.  She doesn't cook at all, if she can help it.  I am very hard on my cookbooks however and it has taken a lot of wear in eighteen years! It is in fact a veritable encyclopedia of all the variations of European traditional cooking or how they handle every category of food that they  themselves produce.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 01, 2007, 05:13:17 PM
Maddie,

Two books I've read/reading are Cod and Salt by Mark Kurlinsky. Both books include recipes from the middle ages to salt cod and other fish, and to make cheese, ham and other salty treats. I thought we were going to read them on the World History list, but everyone is sitting on their hands.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 02, 2007, 10:26:11 PM
http://www.empirekosher.com/pagesnew/recipesview2.php?kind=88&submit=Go

How to practice along with the ancient tradition that begins  to be observed  Dec.5th.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 02, 2007, 10:30:37 PM

Maddie,

Two books I've read/reading are Cod and Salt by Mark Kurlinsky. Both books include recipes from the middle ages to salt cod and other fish, and to make cheese, ham and other salty treats. I thought we were going to read them on the World History list, but everyone is sitting on their hands.



I think what happened is that several people there at the time had already read either Cod; or, Salt ; or, both -- but didn't want to say anything discouraging you from reading it, like saying they had already read  it.  I've heard it praised several times over.  I imagine your opinion has found them praise-worthy as well.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 02, 2007, 11:29:47 PM
Maddie,

Well, that makes sense, and explains why they were never discussed. I am thoroughly enjoying them. It is such a refreshingly different perspective on world history!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on December 03, 2007, 09:32:38 AM
I venture to state that a person is quite "changed" after having read Salt and Cod.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 03, 2007, 01:25:20 PM
Donot,

I tend to agree with you, which is why I am disappointed that I read the books to late for a discussion. It would seem that salt production may have been the first human "industry". It was amusing to read about the effect of salt during the American Civil War. I have read much on that war, and narry a mention of the destruction of the saltworks, or the deprivation caused by limiting salt.

A question that I haven't had answered yet, is why, if humans need so much salt, and food are heavily salted to preserve them, why was drinking the salty water at Jamestown a death sentence to the colonists?



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on December 03, 2007, 02:04:53 PM
The amount of concentration of salt in the water makes a difference.

Foods salted for preservation were/are soaked in one or more baths of fresh water before using as food.  Even today, when you buy salt pork to flavor your beans (or just to slice, fry, and eat,) you cover it (1-2 inches over is good) with water and bring to rapid boil for about 5 minutes.  This draws out the extra salt, which left in would make your beans way too salty.  My mother used to slice the salt pork down to the rind (but not through it) before she boiled it in water.  After, she added it to her beans.  That way she could take the salt pork out and serve on a separate plate for those folks who like to eat it.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on December 04, 2007, 01:48:24 PM
I live in the capital of Nebraska, which was originally a small village devoted to the extraction of salt from a local deposit -- and the village was called "Saltillo."  Some truly weird politics led to changing the site of the capital city from several proposed and more promising sites (like Omaha or Nebraska City, along the river) to Lincoln, which was then basically in the middle of nowhere.  The major creek that runs past the city is still called Salt Creek.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 04, 2007, 01:59:08 PM
weezo -

Can you tell me specifically what you use for the relish and about how much?  And do you use raw cranberries?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 04, 2007, 02:01:43 PM
harrie -

Maybe that recipe I'm talking about is a southern one?  But yes, believe it or not, you just grate one whole orange along with the cranberries and apple.  Chopped pecans are delicious if you like nuts.  It makes something that's sort of a cross between fruit salad and relish, but it almost looks like it has jello in it if it's done properly.  I think you add just a bit of sugar as well.  We'll find out from weezo, hopefully.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 04, 2007, 02:17:18 PM
My recipe is not well spelled out. I just sorta add!

I take one bag of cranberries, two apples, cored but not peeled, and an orange (maybe two), cut in quarters so you can get the seeds out. Then I pour put them into the food processor as it is running. Then I add some sugar. I would guess about a half a cup, but when finished and you taste it, if it needs more, just stir it in.

I like the idea someone had to adding a pear to it.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 04, 2007, 02:26:21 PM
That sounds like the ticket, weezo.  Thanks!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 08, 2007, 12:03:13 PM
I was about to change the menu but...

Listen Up!  Microsoft has just discovered what a friend phoned to tell me their Computer Tech  has put up bulletins throughout their workplace that a New Virus gets into your e-mail and then sends you an e-mail which tells you that A FAMILY MEMBER IS TRYING TO CONTACT YOU

DO NOT OPEN.  IT WILL TURN OFF YOUR COMPUTER. WHEN YOU START YOUR COMPUTER AGAIN, IT WILL DESTROY YOUR HARD DRIVE


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on December 13, 2007, 07:10:28 PM
I'm about to start the Week of Serious Baking.  Not that serious, because it's just cookies, but lots of them.  Keeping it very basic this year, though, in an effort to retain sanity.   Anyone else ramping up for the holidays?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 13, 2007, 10:29:59 PM
Yup. Last night I did those two loaves of Wednesday Afternoon Cranberry Loaf, because the frozen bag remained in the freezer after using one bag for Thanksgiving. I want to use the remaining berries in something called Cranberry Nut Pie (which does not have a crust and is likely to turn out something like a Derby Pie) which I can probably convince myself is okay as long as I give away one of those loaves to my Amish friend Sadie.

There are many more cookies that I always intend to make and then forget where I put the recipe. For this misfortune, my sister came up with the answer (she's the kid for whom our Mom always would  use a delicate tone lest anyone overhearing take it for what it was, as she said, "Do you really think you need one more cookie?". I was shocked as I heard this over my coffee-table and my sisters were grown women. I never figured my mother out(all of us who survived her, literally, because that's what you do, thought or think we have; but, the older I become I know she was a mystery and I say that to my sisters readily.

And now I'm stuck! Discovered I can't transfer them over from the mail where I put them in "saved mail" and copy them to this post because all the underscored mouse-clickons disappear! I have now sought technical advice from out of nation. Do you suppose they will put this in my record?



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 13, 2007, 11:40:43 PM
In the interim, I propose that I do about a half dozen recipes by the web-sites that show up when I click with the mouse. Mind you these are not taste tested or recipe-proofed. I've had no reason to get around to it thus far. Here goes. As we need more, will post more.

http://www.northpole.com/Kitchen/Cookbook/rec0701.html

for, Buried Cherry Cookies

http://www.northpole.com/Kitchen/Cookbook/rec0193.html

for,  Pfeffernuesse

http://www.northpole.com/Kitchen/Cookbook/rec0714.htm

for, Russian Tea-cakes

http://www.northpole.com/Kitchen/Cookbook/rec0493.htm

for, Spritz cookies

http://www.northpole.com/Kitchen/Cookbook/rec0493.htm

for, Swedish Pepparkakor (Pepper Cake) Cookies

http://www.northpole.com/Kitchen/Cookbook/rec0395.html

for, Amish Sugar Cookies


So far, not a one in the bunch at random is anything other than a "Northpole" site, which leads me to guess why they did not transmit to the post from the mail.  I may start digging out some ethnic recipes for tomorrow if I don't go insane first because my e-mail Xmas card lady let me mail last night after making me wait for a week, and just now when I went in to do another batch, nada.  i could scream but that's what holidays are for!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 14, 2007, 02:30:43 PM
Harrie,

Try this. When in doubt, you can rely on The History Channel.

http://www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Generic&content_type_id=57115&display_order=8&mini_id=1290#top

at least two recipes for cookies, one figgy pudding, cider, eggnog,etc.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on December 14, 2007, 03:03:40 PM
Thanks, madupont; I've got my recipes selected.  With the whole sanity factor in play, I'm making ricotta cookies (a sort of chewy sugar [drop] cookie); gingersnaps; Mazurkas (a shortbready bar cookie with that disgusting fruitcake fruit stuff); a couple of different biscotti; jelly strip things; and fudge.  Once they're done, I'll take a look around and see what else to make. I made a rule this year - no cutouts, no pinwheels, nothing too complicated.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 14, 2007, 03:10:12 PM
Ah, you forgot oatmeal cookies - so heathy you can breakfast on them! Made with molasses, they are soft and wonderful. Made with sugar, hard and dunkable.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on December 14, 2007, 03:23:18 PM
True, but they're not all that Christmas-y. Or holiday-y.  I make them about every other week anyway, do love them.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 15, 2007, 12:50:14 PM
Here's what my son sent as the retort to our baking plans.

Celery Sticks with Roasted-Garlic Hummus
 Servings: 4

Here's what you need...

2 garlic cloves, peeled
15 oz can cooked garbanzo beans, drained
3 tablespoons freshly squeezed lemon juice
8 stalks celery, cut into thick slices
1 teaspoon olive oil
4 tablespoons water
salt and cracked black pepper to taste
1 teaspoon dried parsley
Preheat the oven or toaster oven to 350 F. Wrap the garlic cloves in foil and roast for 10 minutes.
For the hummus, in a food processor, combine the roasted garlic, garbanzo beans, lemon juice, olive oil and water. Pulse until a smooth paste forms. Season with sail and pepper.
Arrange the celery sticks on a plate. Serve the hummus in a small bowl and garnish with dried parsley.
Nutritional Analysis: One serving equals: 132 calories, 3g fat, 21g carbohydrate, and 6g protein.

He redesigns the body fat and muscle development and all over body-appearance of those who must live in the L.A. requirement zone close to the Industry that puts your body on film.

This is why I refrain from sending him any of those Italian baskets meant to stock your basic Italian pantry for Christmas, or any of the baking delicacies of the Holiday Season; I save those treats for myself although they are getting harder to find despite what the catalogues present.

I want to make some date cookies but this depends on whether I can get actual California dates here in Republican territory where they insist on dumping what they import from Pakistan. Now, I ask you who in their right mind would want to eat food imported from somewhere that your federal administration keeps telling you could nuke you if Musharif wanted to?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 17, 2007, 10:57:34 AM
Wow - that's an impressive cookie list!  I am considering baking some Ranger cookies this week - one batch is a big deal for me.  I don't enjoy baking cookies very much - I come from a pie family.  However, I so admire the gorgeous cookies I see in the magazines, etc. 

My sister sent me the recipe for a sugar-free pumpkin pie (or almost).  Her husband is diabetic so she does a lot of sugarless stuff.  Anyway, she said you use the regular recipe but instead of sugar, you add 9 small packets of Splenda, then add a tiny bit of sugar to taste.  She said my brother ate a piece of it at Thanksgiving and kept saying, "Boy, there's just nothing like homemade pumpkin pie!"  He still doesn't know it was virtually sugarless. I think that's pretty impressive.

I'm doing apple crisp this year instead of apple pie.  My sister sends a pricey ham every year, so I do some un-holiday-ey stuff to go with it, like macaroni and cheese, but we'll still have the standbys as well - yams, green bean casserole, cornbread dressing, Watergate salad, and possibly a couple of pies.  I'm thinking pecan and pumpkin.  May do some marshmallow fudge this year too as I haven't done that at Christmas in years.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on December 17, 2007, 11:37:34 AM
Okay, my turn to bite -- what is/goes into a Watergate salad? 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on December 17, 2007, 12:00:57 PM
Me, too.  Anybody do one of the NoneSuch mincemeat pies anymore?  Lord I love those things.  Only trouble, I can't leave one alone.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 17, 2007, 01:46:23 PM
Okay, my turn to bite -- what is/goes into a Watergate salad? 

It's this goopy stuff form back in the Dark Ages (the Watergate Era, yup), the name is because "it's not what it looks like".  You mix 1 packet of instant pistachio pudding mix with 1 tub of Cool Whip and add in drained crushed pineapple, coconut, and other things - lots of people put in miniature marshmallows, but I put in mandarin oranges and marschino cherries.    Not exactly what you'd call gourmet food, but it's pretty tasty stuff and my daughter requested it this year since I haven't done it in years.         


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 17, 2007, 01:48:14 PM
Me, too.  Anybody do one of the NoneSuch mincemeat pies anymore?  Lord I love those things.  Only trouble, I can't leave one alone.

I bake one every now and again, but no one but me eats it.  I add a chopped Granny Smith apple.  Yum!   I love mincemeat pie.    Now I think I'm going to bake one for Christmas.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on December 17, 2007, 03:18:58 PM
Des, Oh, now I remember THAT.  It's my favorite at potluck dinners.  Only I remember cherry flavored jello? (not mixed with water, just straight from the packet) with marshmallows, pineapple, cherries and "stuff" (every cook's ideas were different.)   Then again, it could have been cherry flavored pudding.  I've never made it myself.  Oh, yum.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 17, 2007, 05:50:20 PM
I've never made a green bean casserole, but candied sweet potatoes were a must! When my boys were growing up I alway did a Nonesuch Mincemeat pie for Christmas and sometimes also for Thanksgiving, adding raisins rather than the apple. Of course, Shoo-Fly Pie was always done for holidays and any old time you wanted a pie. If I can find the filling, I hope to do a Mincemeat Pie for Christmas. It will be with an apple pie, and maybe a chocolate cake (from mix).



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 17, 2007, 07:27:32 PM
Green bean casserole is so easy, weezo.  The recipe is on the Dukees fried onions container - 2 cans French style green beans drained mixed with 1 can Cream of Chicken (or mushroom) soup, 1/3 cup of milk, 2/3 of the container of the fried onions - baked at 350 30 minute - sprinkle the rest of the onions on top, brown in oven another few minutes.  Get the large size container of the Durkee onions.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 17, 2007, 07:28:19 PM
Weezo, the Nonsuch mincemeat already has raisins in it.  I add chopped apple to that - really comes out great.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 17, 2007, 07:38:21 PM
Dessie,

I know there are raisins in the mincemeat. I added raisins to make a bigger pie. I wouldn't be surprised if there are not apples in it already, but I don't think I ever read the label.

Green bean casserole may be easy, but if no one likes it why bother. Family prefers most veggies plain, except cauliflower, which is like best in a cream sauce.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 18, 2007, 12:11:26 AM
Just out of curiosity, do any of you eat mincemeat pie that is actually made with meat (and apples and spices, etc.)the way it is done in Lancaster?

Before I get into trouble here, I will take a peak in the cookbooks from this "county". Weren't these what the English originally referred to as "suet" pies?

By the  way, the pronunciation of Lancaster by Lancastermen is Lank-aster. Yorkmen on the other side of the river say it that way also.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 18, 2007, 02:32:52 AM
Mincemeat         Enough for about 10  8-inch pies

2pounds lean beef, ground              1/2 pound citron,thinly sliced
l   "        beef suet,  "                    Juice and peel of 1 orange,ground
3 quarts chopped tart apples             "      "     "    "  "  lemon,ground
3 cups brown sugar, packed            1 and 1/2 teaspoons each cinnamon,
1 cup molasses                             mace,cloves,nutmeg,allspice and salt
1 quart cider                                 1 pound broken nut meats,(optional)
1 & 1/2 lbs.currants,washed            1 pint cognac
2 lbs raisins

1. Mix the beef,suet,apples,sugar,molasses,cider,fruits and peels in a large heavy kettle. Bring to a boil,lower the heat and simmer,stirring frequently about one and one-half hours.

2. Add the spices and continue cooking until thick,stirring almost constantly. Add the nuts and cognac and pack into sterile jars. Adjust lids and process either pints or quarts one and one-half hours in boiling water bath or twenty minutes at ten pound pressure in pressure canner. Seal.

I was rather taken aback when I noticed the pans in the deli cases of Amish butcher stores or supermarkets once founded by Mennonites, and there was the "mince meat" already prepared for you to take home and pop into a pie-crust and bake, as far as i know. I think that I shall ask some experts now that I have compared the cooking ratio of time in my head, how long does a meat pie take in the oven, with apples,spices,citrus rind,juice, apple or grape brandy, dried fruit, dark sweetening compared to that boiling on the stove which I expect was probably to give to friends or neighbors as presents in the jar?

I have a jar from Crosse and Blackwell, familiar of my child hood, in which mother trusted, and it says loud and clear Pippin apples under the Mince meat title. I have an empty box that once contained a jar of hard sauce.  But, I make my own. It is simply that the jar of mince meat for pie baking suggests you serve pie with hard sauce. If it goes with fruit cake and other holiday treats, why not?

I should be no more surprised at this than when I first talked to a young Amish woman waiting on a train to load up in Chicago and go off west to Albuequerque. She was obviously Plain, black dress, white kapp,black stockings in summer, sensible shoes. There was another woman in a pink dress I believe, of the more Mennonite kind; but both with young husbands and kids. What bowled me over was that Mrs. Petersheim spoke with a clear accented English idiom, unlike any Amish person before or since.  It is an affrontery but I asked nonetheless,"Are you'English'? She looked mildly alarmed and asked why but when I explained what I was hearing, she replied that she was raised at Morgantown. A place that looks so utterly British and another century that it is a little distressing. If one went to school here for eight years in a one room schoolhouse, your accent in English might be, well, "English".

And then there are the Quakers to the South and the towns again are more British and nobody will tear them down because they are history. They are ugly and neglected as small British villages were meant to be. There are Scots-Irish in the hills, under the trees in their log cabins, where smoke will drift from chimney as the snow begins to fall. It was inevitable where Paradise and Bird in Hand wonders some between Valley Forge/King of Prussia and Gettysburg, that these people would trade off recipes with each other in time. Germans would eat English food, and English would know how to prepare Amish dishes from scratch.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on December 18, 2007, 11:32:10 AM
Wow, maddie - that a hell of a big recipe!  Jeez.

I knew real mincemeat pies had suet in them, but I didn't know they had meat.   


The kind that comes in the jar has little apples in it, but it's still better if you add a fresh chopped apple.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on December 18, 2007, 11:43:09 AM
Those jarred mincemeats are not true mincemeats....lacking suet and beef.  But my two kids are vegetarians, so I  substitute the Crosse and Blackwell Mincemeat for suet, raisins and currants in my Suet Pudding, top with a good Scotch Whiskey hard sauce....quite lovely.  I suspect this would work for any suet pudding recipe you might have.  We don't miss the suet at all (although my mother gets quite annoyed when I mess around with the "old recipes" which I find quite entertaining coming from a woman who has now discovered the superior quality of butter as replacement for lard in her two hundred year old Scotchbread recipe).



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on December 18, 2007, 11:57:02 AM
I just like the NoneSuch.  No, meat or suet, thanks. And adding diced apple doesn't hurt a bit. Or extra golden raisins. I also cook my bottom crust a bit first, too.  'Course, Mrs Smith will do the whole thing for you--except the baking--and she conveniently leaves them for you at the grocery store.  This time of the year I also have to stay out of the store bought egg nog.  I never put liquor in it.  Just shake it good, pour, and sip.  It appears just before Thanksgiving and disappears after New Year's.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 18, 2007, 11:45:01 PM
Sorry, guys, but I had to go to ye olde average supermarket in the late afternoon/early evening, and while there checked the NoneSuch ingredients.   The last on the list says clearly, like all the rest of the small print: BEEF ; meaning that it is the smallest amount of all the ingredients used.  This IS the NoneSuch in a jar. 

On the other hand, I looked at that fine print when I read the current posts in regard to that jar with the pippin apples made by Crosse & Blackwell. No beef (just sodium benzoate and a number of other things that I will not go into here because -- we are getting ready for a holiday.)

Anyone else have any other problems,such as with use of the web-site last night.  I did, slowness unimaginable and loss of posts as when a crash, therefore I sent a bug report tonight to bugzilla to watch for the
offender.

I had to laugh about the woes of Scotchbread, because my grandmother sent it every-year wrapped in brown paper and tied with string. It always arrived with the large splotches of greased paper where the butter or the lard as the case may be had been absorbed into Gram's packaging. My mother frowned on all this but whether or not it occurred to her -- it was too late now. She had married the woman's son had she not?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 22, 2007, 05:37:09 PM
Donotremove,

I was out and about at the supermarket when the current movies left me out in the cold; and, I thought you would like to know that my fact-finding trip of the week noticed all the imports were on display that say "Christmas" to people who speak different languages; or , another variation from Christmas than we expect as culinary treats.

When I caught on to this, I noticed the UK provides some odd thoughts proving that children in England love sugary treats and drinks, other than the spotted dick in a can provided by Heinz. Before anyone makes uncalled for censorly comments,I can assure you that isabel_k born and raised in Manchester missed this truly while in Germany  and then said in general,
" ...but, you  have no experience with 'bubble 'n squeek', now do you?"

Of course, I did, those are "bangers" that you put into the batter of Yorkshire Pudding while it rises in the oven.

I did pick up a jar to check the ingredients while there, on the imported Crosse & Blackwell for mincemeat.  No Beef for the export market among other things, although they label suet  in the ingredients. Careful note clarifies that suet has been made from vegetable oils or vegetable "fats".

So, you win some; you lose some.  Also, rather than making ten pies of anything, there are cute little miniature mince meat pies to pop into the oven for the tea-parties of little folks.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 22, 2007, 10:08:21 PM
Bedazzle with Lebanon Bologna!

We did our Christmas grocery shopping on Friday, and to my delight, they had a Lebanon Bologna there. So I got some, sliced thicker than the turkey, ham and smithfield ham. And, the gut threw in the fat heal. That went first. I ate it with a banana when we got home from the last of the shopping. Then for supper last night, we had a frozen pizza to which I'd cut up slices of Lebanon Blogna and added it on between the pepperonis already on it. This morning, Steve gently fried some Lebanon Bologna slices, put them on either side of a toasted English muffin, and scrambled some eggs in the pan from the bolona, and served the whole. A bit of the eggs went in the muffin between the Lebanon Blogna slices, and the rest ate fine with a fork. Now, it is late at night, and I'm wondering about making a Lebanon Bologna sandwich with swiss cheese on rye.

Hubby talking on the phone to his brother and told him we found some Lebanon Bologna, and brother asked what it tasted like. Steve nor I could think of words to describe it other than spicey and dark, not quite like anything else. So, we had to meet him to give him an ice busket, so we took him a Lebanon Bologna sandwich, and he cell phoned to say how good it was.

Remember how my parents entertained:small cubes of Leganon Cologna, Ring Bolona, and at least two kinds of cheeses. I will be rolling the means into tubes perhaps with an olive or pickle in the middle. And, instead of cubing the cheese, it is sliced to fit nicely in the bagel buns we are trying out with the cold cuts.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on December 22, 2007, 10:37:35 PM
Anne....sounds yummy.  Lebanon bologna always reminds me of going up north in the summer.  Whenever we went camping, my parents would stop off in Pinconning and pick up bread, cheese, salami and Lebanon bologna to eat on the way.  Funny how food can bring back memories.

I am up for the next three or four hours baking Scotchbreads, gingerbread men and fruitcake.  I had made my fruitcake three months ago, but this week my daughter discovered she is allergic to soy.  The fruitcake I made had a base of Pillsbury quick bread....which unfortunately is soy based.  Since fruitcake is her favorite Christmas food, a re-bake is called for.  Not much time for the whiskey to evaporate....but what the heck, we're all of age.  My gingerbread had vegetable oil...which is also soy...so those will be gifted. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 22, 2007, 11:18:40 PM
Laurie,

Sorry to hear you have to re-bake. But traditional treats for one's sons (and daughters), is a major part of the celebration of holidays.

I don't do much baking - can't get out of the chair ...

But either fresh baked or fresh from the bakery, we must have pies! It has been a tradition of our families since hubby & I met.

John, learned to make bourbon balls (break cookies up, soak in burban, roll in powdered sugar). Over a number of years, the employees in his area at the bank were treated to this high-voltage sweets at the bank Christmas party. After a few years of making larger and larger batches, one of his supervisors asked him not to bring them anymore - too many people were getting drunk on them!




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on December 22, 2007, 11:56:14 PM
I love baking, so the re-bake isn't as bad as could be.  Bourbon balls!  What kind of cookies does John use?  I sometimes make them by throwing chocolate wafers, dried apricots and bourbon in the food processor.  Then roll in sugar or cocoa.  I've also seen them made with those Nilla cookies.  I used to make them first and enjoy them while I did the rest of the baking....made baking QUITE enjoyable.  But, I can't do that when I bake late at night.  Alcohol makes me too drowsy. 

Pies...will bake a pumpkin for Christmas, and since husband can't eat pumpkin and shouldn't eat too much sugar, I will make him an apple pie sweetened with cinnamon, nutmeg and fruit juice and serve it up with a sharp cheddar cheese.   

My favorite part of Christmas dinner will be oven roasted winter vegetables....rutabaga, parsnip, sweet potato, carrots and brussels sprouts tossed with olive oil, add salt and pepper.  After roasting, the vegetables taste as sweet as many desserts. 

Hope you have a Merry Christmas....keep enjoying that bologna  :)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 24, 2007, 04:06:35 PM
Anybody know how many seafood dishes Italian style are required for this evening. Should I do the healthy thing or go with tradition?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on December 24, 2007, 04:57:36 PM
Maddie,

How can you get any healthier than to serve fish?

Merry Christmas one and all!!!!!



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on December 24, 2007, 10:17:41 PM
madupont, it's the Seven Fishes.  Which, at this point depending on your time zone, probably isn't really feasible.

We did the Polish dinner - pierogies (tater, sauerkraut, prune), stuffed shrimp, kasha, and kapusta. And hot dogs for a certain brother-in-law, don't ask.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 25, 2007, 01:10:29 PM

madupont, it's the Seven Fishes.  Which, at this point depending on your time zone, probably isn't really feasible.

We did the Polish dinner - pierogies (tater, sauerkraut, prune), stuffed shrimp, kasha, and kapusta. And hot dogs for a certain brother-in-law, don't ask.


I gather you make at least some of your own pierogie because I've never seen them available packaged with prune filling; but of course you are regionally  in the right location where that might be more likely.  They used to come swimming in melted "butter?" on the far lower East side en route to Brooklyn or on the way back from there, which is how I was introduced to them. At the time, I was living next to the Polish Clinic just east of 2nd.Avenue in the "land of Deli". I don't think it ever became "East Village" (although that happened further east in a partially Polish neighborhood), we were merely that part of Lower Manhattan that was known for the Yiddish Theater and deli-restaurants which you saw in Woody Allen movies in which you saw him eating in them; particularly which ever title it was about the black-listed film writers.

Kasha is something with which I used to fill Pirozhski after discovering them in the Russian Tea Room. But, Kapusta beats me, is that Polish sausage?(I don't remember). The Mother Goose/Mother Superior, whom I previously wrote about in this forum,  was very Polish and very much resembled a woman that was my father's landlady when he was in Med.school, which meant living in a rooming-house during the change over from the Roaring Twenties to the Depression.  I used to go and stay with her for a few days at a time when my parents had to go away somewhere. The Polish traditional part of these visits was going to church first thing in the morning at one that had five altars on the ground floor and five more on the second floor so that all the priests at the university (where my father had gone to Med.school)could say their masses each day. Then, the afternoon could be spent going to the Movies!

Both of these women, at quite different ages, were excellent traditional cooks. The elder made stay-overs rewarding with butter cakes yellow with butter and eggs, topped with dark sweet chocolate frosting. The younger also gardened in more ways than one, this in fact contributed to a particular substance euphemistically referred to as "Polish Parsley".




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on December 25, 2007, 02:01:20 PM
re Kapusta

madupont, it's actually called Kapusta Grah-hum (spelled phonetically, of course, and you sort of gargle the "Gr" part) - I can't find the proper spelling.  (whiskeypriest may be of some assistance here, if asked)   Kapusta = cabbage.  Here's the traditional recpe:

Kapusta
1 cup sauerkraut
1 head cabbage
¾ lb. Split peas
4-5 potatoes
½ lb. Salt port
1 Tbsp. Flour
Soak split peas overnight or cook until soft. Shred cabbage. Combine sauerkraut, cabbage and peas and cook slowly. Cube potatoes and add to pot. Fry salt pork (cubed small). Add flour to fat. When roux is ready, add to pot. One hour cooking time should be enough.


The hubby's family does it with just shredded cabbage and split peas, though.  No meat product on Christmas Eve for them (though the current family make-up is Catholic/Jewish/Methodist/heathen), so the salt pork comes out; and they make it super-thick with the split peas and no potatoes.

The pierogies are homemade - before Christmas and Easter, there's a Pierogi Saturday, where family members get together and make a boatload.  The pierogies are boiled and right before serving, pan-fried in butter - they don't swim in it, but they have a  nice brown, slightly greasy coating.  At the Easter gathering, the family also makes homemade kielbasa, though pork butt is getting harder to find, with local butcher shops becoming scarce. 

The hubby also wants to clarify that stuffed shrimp isn't a Polish tradition, it's just where they've gone with it, as in something everyone (except the hot dog-loving BIL) can agree on.  In the old country it was a local fish (likely carp, pike, eel, etc.), and in earlier Connecticut days it was bluefish (plentiful in Long Island Sound).  The family is also half Irish, but they do Polish foods for the holidays.

And I hope you're having a happy holiday!

(Do I want to know about this Polish Parsley or leave it alone?)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 25, 2007, 02:17:12 PM
weezo,

The healthy part was not making the salt-cod traditionally served on Christmas Eve, that after soaking and rinsing, and much more soaking and rinsing, is finally fried(in olive oil) in  a coating to crisp up somewhat Venetian style and known as baccala alla Fiorentina. Italian parsley goes on that.

But since this is good for New Year's Eve as well, when it can be made as Brandade de Moreau with ripe olives as garnish, I decided on something more healthy "Cavolfiore arrabiata or Sicilian, in which you take a green or better yet a purple cauliflower which I steamed for awhile to serve over perciatelli. It is usually done with that or buccatini, both about the same size. Usually this is the same time of year when the fresh fennel bulbs are in season. Otherwise I grind up some fennel seed to sprinkle over the cooking cauliflower, along with ubiquitous Italian herbs, some dried red onion, and garlic powder. The all fresh version slices up the fennel bulb thinly and separated to go with the flowerets of cauliflower,ans sliced and separated red onion which can be slowly sauteed in some olive oil in a covered pan. It should also have a sprinkle of dried red pepper flakes (which look like the seed to me).  You carefully slowly let some pine nuts roast in the oven at a lower than medium temperature and this is the garnish along with a can of flat or rolled anchovies and their oil. Unless you are an afficionado who has a small glass barrel of them salted; in which case they need to be rinsed.

Some places are charging overly much for pine nuts (and we have that other problem that these things which are less often from Italy, now come from China). I didn't have any as I thought I did but, what are called "slivered almonds" (and are quite a bit larger than sliced almonds) will do just as well. It is combined with the pasta and served, usually with a small amount of Parmesan.

The unhealthy part may come about from eating all Seven of the Fishes at one sitting, which is why I asked but I did happen to have exactly seven recipes from A.G. Ferrari. Following the Baccala, Pesce in Zimino(from Liguria). In which halibut or more cod, half a dozen prawns, and some cleaned and washed calamari are added to Swiss chard following the saute of small sliced onion in olive oil, porcini mushrooms that were soaked in warm water. The water along wih red wine vinegar will go into the dish which is put in the oven for 5 to 7 minutes.

A third dish can be a Tortino di spaghetti(from 1/4 bag as well as 1/4 bag of Nero di Sepia (which is that black spaghetti made with cuttlefish"ink". 5 eggs are whisked with 1 cup of Parmesan,1/4 c. parsley, salt, and 1/4 c. olive oil; to which the cooked spaghetti is added alongg with one thinly sliced red onion.

It is poured into a 12 inch frying pan. You heat half the remaining 1/4 oil,pour the mixture into the pan and press down with a spatula and cook over medium heat until golden brown about five minutes. This is turned with a plate and a little more oil drizzled over and then returned to pan on the opposite site until golden brown. it is cut into slices and eaten with arrabbiata sauce which is a usual tomato sauce with added  hot red pepper flakes.

I will have to post the remaining specification for typical Christmas recipes, after i go for a nap because all that "food" on the page put me to sleep.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on December 25, 2007, 02:24:36 PM
harrie, oh,  yes, I recognize it now.  I think that Dzimas wife might also be Polish?

"(Do I want to know about this Polish Parsley or leave it alone?)"

That depends. Mother Superior was given an entire hydroponic operation for her back yard in an ordinary middle class suburban neighborhood, as a gift from the gods, and tended by someone who looked basically like Michael as played by John Travolta, from Winona,Minne-
sota.

If the neighbors asked about that tall green plant over there, oh, and another one over there, they were told it was Polish Parsley, which sounded about right  because Mother Superior was.  They found that quiet acceptable as an horticultural answer.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on January 08, 2008, 11:41:38 AM
"Food matters."

I wholeheartedly agree!

My current winter kick is vegetarian chili -- take a can of chili beans, like Mrs. Grimes or Bush's, and add a pinch of cumin, a little Tabasco, some chopped up onions, bell pepper, kernel corn and.....last but not least, ground-up corn chips.  Then serve with grated mozzarella on top.  Ethnically confused, but delicious.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on January 08, 2008, 02:00:41 PM
Maddie -

Whiskey is the one with the Polish wife.  Dzimas lives in Lithuania - don't know if he has a wife at all, let alone if she's Polish or not.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on January 08, 2008, 04:01:10 PM
I know re: whisky, it was the whole Cherry Ames story writing competitions they'd get into in the nytimes.forums and there were occasional trips to pilgrimages of the Black Madonna.  The contrasts are amusing but then one day it was revealed that this was also my son's generation so I shrugged my shoulders and refused to take anything seriously. Then there was the move. Yet, you are correct about the Polish wife.

Yes, Dzimas has a family in Vilno. I've been reading with him or listening to his wisdom ever since Kevin Philips wrote,American Dynasty but only now have begun to hear about the kids as he mentioned them in the last several months in these forums; before that it was only his wife
over there, and I thought he had mentioned her as Polish instead of Lithuanian.  So, he definitely has a few years on my son but not overly much.

Merely demonstrates that it takes all kinds to make up the world.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on January 08, 2008, 04:03:44 PM

"Food matters."

I wholeheartedly agree!

My current winter kick is vegetarian chili -- take a can of chili beans, like Mrs. Grimes or Bush's, and add a pinch of cumin, a little Tabasco, some chopped up onions, bell pepper, kernel corn and.....last but not least, ground-up corn chips.  Then serve with grated mozzarella on top.  Ethnically confused, but delicious.





Yes, ethnically confused is in, and has been. When even the California cuisine people gourmets who prefer vegetables over vegetables, salad that your children grew at school etc., do it which they have for awhile now, then The New York Times food writers are in difficulties.

I try to do my part, which is why I recycled my cassoulet, by removing the beans instead of reheating again, they had all the flavor of the meat ,anyway, that is layered when you make this Southern French dish.

Now, all it takes is that flavoring up-grade and I had some of that No-Chicken broth(again that is probably from California, makes use of vegetables, and I'll have to check the brand-name next time I'm at that store on my rounds because I threw the carton out. You know the kind that can sit in your pantry but goes in the refrigerator up to a week once opened). But while at the store --I picked up the smallest least expensive piece (of what used to be called,"Side meat") of a salted ham slice, which has to be soaked in fresh water for an hour, drained, and then you cook it, I put it back in another shallow cooking pan of water to simmer very low while I finished with turning the cassoulet beans into Bean Soup with ham. 

Having found the warm weather means the onions have already begun to have a green start at new life within signaling to the intelligence of an onion that it must be Spring, I tossed in a handful, small hand though, of red onion flakes from those Germans at Lite House, I had a smaller box of Ham stock as well(from Kitchen Basics that makes all varieties: Chicken,Turkey,Pork,Ham,Clam,Vegetable--I think?) and the chopped up the last of the celery hearts as the season ends here in the home-grown favorite vegetable of the Amish country. I went to hunt up a pinch of dried marjoram.

Took two impossible tomatoes out of the vegetable drawer, in that they were from Canada which is a good thing, where green houses produce them preferably on the vine, but these were under-ripened and that implies they may not have the taste for the texture and the texture will eventually go if not refrigerated.  They can be cut in half, then halved in the other direction again and tossed in with the beans, broth, dried herbs and vegetables.  Live carrots, are good, at least one with peeling off tips too, as they also begin to say Spring at this season. I never wash them before refrigeration, so during storage which they are good for with the humidity of a refrigerator --they pick up dirt from each other as you remove a few from the bag and that is why you tip and peel and rinse before --
cutting them in slices for the soup, just going down the carrot to the tip which means you have some  little chunks.  Large carrots can be halved and cut into slices on the board. But you probably do not need more than one.

You simmer this covered but be sure to check quickly and regularly to stir the bottom of the pot with a large wooden spoon so that the beans do not stick their already cooked residue to the bottom and you will burn your pot irrevocably as we have all done in our youth. It is a sign that it is cooking too fast and you can leave off the lid for awhile but turn down the burner anyway. Cover and uncover as you go, checking regularly until your carrots and celery and tomatoes are actually cooked. Now it is time to cut up smaller pieces from your sliced ham, it's from \Virginia, but not the Smithfields who are in jeopardy of losing their souls, for bad labor practices by management. You drain off the cooking water and take out the slice of ham to sit on something where it cools enough to the touch for you to cut it up. The object of all this is to lessen the salt content to avoid high blood pressure when sprucing up left-overs or quick dishes.

Just to be sure you add a few jots from the bottle of Tabasco before you serve your Bean and Ham soup, preferably with a few croutons you make from your day old bread.








Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on January 25, 2008, 12:45:19 AM
I shall decline haggis (as I do, hog-maw) but the Alaskan salmon is defrosting in the refrigerator drawer, the potatoes are somewhere on the cool floor of the pantry, and the savoy cabbage is in the vegetable drawer,with a package of lima beans in the freezer. I may even have time to make butter-scotch cookies;who knows? It is Bobby Burns Day.

I shall go a little crazy attempting to locate my tartar sauce recipe from home.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on January 27, 2008, 09:35:03 AM
So madupont, how did Robert Burns Day go?  (It's Burns Day every day in my kitchen, not so much in honor of Mr. Burns as my cooking.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on January 29, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
That was a snap compared to what's coming up. Have you looked at the calendar?

This is Mardi Gras season since it ends on Tuesday. Next week. Followed in two days by Chinese Lunar New Year which I've noticed fast-approaching because some of the over-wintering plants are flowering. This becomes the 'seed-starting season' as well. My observation over the years is that there is this little chunk in the planetary time mechanism at this point which upgrades the growth rate.  But since I also used to do a lot of en masse cooking, I'm in the habit of something for the New Year. I do not do 200 plus fried egg rolls anymore, for anyone.

Then, one week later,Valentine's Day. How do I know? Dancing Deer e-mailed this morning with Chocolate Ganache heart shaped cakes that have to be ordered by the 11th. This does not mean that they will not charge extra shipping for three day delivery....

I also have to disentangle which of the Pisces birthday's arrive at the end of February and which toward the end of March, since one is my youngest sister and the other my oldest sister-in-law and I've never kept it straight  but there is a major difference of getting the card there three weeks late or three weeks too early.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on January 29, 2008, 01:32:14 PM
Yes, that could be interesting having Fat Tuesday and in some places Super Tuesday on the same day -- voters making choices while on a sugar high from eating numerous paczkis, all that good stuff.

Pisces runs from February 20 to March 20, if that's any help - anyone too close to the end of March would be an Aries.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on January 29, 2008, 02:12:38 PM
Are paczkis what Mother Superior called Punschkies; of which she made as many as I used to make fastnachts? Her's were jam filled doughnuts with a sugar sprinkle. Fastnachts are also fried in what the Amish consider getting rid of the rendered lard used over the winter season following the Fall butchering of meat which was cured and often now put in a "locker" where they go by buggy to pick up the frozen meat and then defrost it. The fastnacht is cut on a rectangle, has a bit of potato water from boiling potatoes  when making dinner, and is always used in making potatoe bread, which is added to the dough for the fastnacht which most resembles the Morning Watch Cafe doughnut  at the French Market in New Orleans.  However, the usual recipe, as I always forget, will create a pantry full so you have to collect storage tins to save them in.  Brown paper bags will not do, as the fastnacht does not remain fresh after the first day.

There is also the toss-up, when to powder sugar them by sprinkling through a sieve. Should they cool completely before you sprinkle or should you just go ahead? Those bought locally in the average supermarket, or bakery where the tourists will be sure to stop, are never as good as those that are home-made.  If you have about three or four guys, one of whom is a master carpenter, tearing apart your front porch and replacing it, two junior apprentices/two teen-age boys in Amish country can usually finish off fastnachts before they have a chance to get unfresh by tomorrow.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on January 29, 2008, 02:24:53 PM
Never had any problem finishing off Mom's faustnachts on the only day they were good. Sister Patty is the only one of us who still keep the tradition of making Faustnachts every year. She takes them to school and they are not around to get stale.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on January 29, 2008, 02:33:46 PM
You got it, madupont  -- as far as I know, it's spelled paczki and pronounced "pooch-kee." 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on January 29, 2008, 09:50:53 PM
Weezo, How did they get to be called Faust-nachts around Reading? They sound like snacks to eat at the opera.  I'm not kidding because we have one of those down here, an Opera House but, they aren't quite into opera. (I think that I told you the history on this one, and "the baptised Indians"; in American History forum.)

I couldn't resist  asking because, I think, Faust was the first opera that I saw. Pretty impressive when you are in pig-tails.  It did however not make a lot of sense at that age.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on January 29, 2008, 10:07:16 PM
Maddie,

I'm not sure of the spelling --- and I can't put my hand on my Pa Dutch cookbooks which may have3 the explanation in them. I suspect is is more related to the fasting of lent than to an opera. Maybe they are spelled fastnaughts. I'm not sure



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on January 30, 2008, 11:04:38 PM
Anyone here read any Wendell Berry.There's a short interesting article on him in the Feb. Gourmet.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 01, 2008, 01:29:48 AM
bosox18d,
 
I've been reading him for years, since sometime in the mid-1970s,perhaps earlier.  I think it may have been my Chinese study partner who turned me on to him because she was from a family of English farmers from around a place known as Adam's Friendship, quite close to Black Earth(another place name) on the way to Spring Green, Frank Lloyd Wright's school; and you can tell by the names of the places that this was English territory or settlement in the Midwest. Then I began sending off some of his poems to my great aunt who was enthralled because he spoke the language of farming that she recognized from two generations earlier.
 
His essays of course on ecology or I guess what people would call greening nowadays have converted a lot of people who may have been on that path anyway but were moved to more enthusiasm; and I suspect that those of us who knew him as a poet were more attentive to that element in his character and his message simply because we were conditioned by now to have an inate respect for those poets who had come immediately before us and who had taught us and whom we loved like older brothers or cousins, family somehow.
 
Then about a year ago or so, I discovered his prose writing, his fiction which in a modern time frame resembles the world of Thomas Hardy and yet still is intrinsically Wendell Berry.  I think the name Berry is usually an Irish name but I may be wrong about that.  In fact, I may be wrong about  my timing and begun these readings as early as late 2006; same thing more or less.
 
I do know that I had talked with Donotremove about Berry and the poetry circuits of the small rural colleges, some of whom became rather well known as supporting of poetry;because, those several generations back, they seemed to be en route to the "big city",from the rural confines, usually in the time of agricultural Depression,where one went to seek one's fortune, to make one's way in the world, and they tended toward Chicago at that time where Harriet Monroe had begun Poetry magazine. It was a hub to which they came from an area of that wheel to the center from as far as Indiana or Kentucky. Yet Wendell Berry was content to stay close to the land (reminds me of my great uncle John whom I never met by the way)and farm it for thirty years while it inspired him to imaginations, fictions that he began to write about this American family, he even draws detailed little maps of the land they settled and how they flourished and suffered in succeeding generations.
 
It was those maps that got me. That urge to create another world from the one already known; I was fascinated by that in my childhood, following rivers in the gutter on my way to school as I learned geography at home during WW2 and I suspect much as well from Holiday Magazine with big color prints, the travel equivalent of Life Magazine, and full histories of places. They were the large scale version of National Geographic  with emphasis less on adventure than on leisure.

I was also the cartographer of the summer counterpane, early to bed as the sun went down,literary encyclopedias tucked aside, having read not so much of strange lands as former eras that you had to understand geographically to understand the significant characters. I drew maps imagined, as Wendell Berry does to write a novel or in the process of doing so.

He has written over forty books, the imaginary novels are the Port William series where I began when discovering his fiction.  His publisher has changed in the interim. Literally changed. Not that he went elsewhere, the same editorial-director of the former partnership is still there but the books are not, they dumped a lot of books which i presume must have gone to remainder and I wonder where;have I missed a deal? All the wonderful information is gone as well with the lengthy list of authors that they published. For instance, W.S. Merwin was a close friend of his(although W.S. Merwin went to school along with Galway Kinnell at Princeton)

Nonetheless, I shall try tomorrow to make up a list of his books for you from the flyleaf, of what I expected to find at the publisher, divided in ranks with fiction first about a dozen books, then poetry in about 14 thin volumes, followed by a larger amount of essays.  And I expect there are more in each category that have been added since.
 

 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 01, 2008, 01:36:27 AM
]
Maddie,

I'm not sure of the spelling --- and I can't put my hand on my Pa Dutch cookbooks which may have3 the explanation in them. I suspect is is more related to the fasting of lent than to an opera. Maybe they are spelled fastnaughts. I'm not sure




"Maybe they are spelled fastnaughts. I'm not sure", that's more like it in fact; you've just forgotten how it was spelled "fastnachts" making a plural out of the night when fasting began. No MardiGras for the Amish. Although, to this day, as far as I know, the Amish don't fast because they don't feel the need to and I don't know that they even fast as a preparation for the annual Communion service. So, veritably, I say unto you, in English, that they fastnaught.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on February 01, 2008, 01:36:37 AM
I read up on him last night.He seems a good old ornery cuss.Came out of Wallace Stegners writing group.One funny little thing in the Gourmet article was after a lunch of Lamb from his daughters farm and pole beans from his he was sipping single malt  instead of Kentucky Whiskey.I read a few people comparing his Port Williams stories to lesser Faulkner but that's a plus in my book.I will take a look at short stories first in the fiction but mean to read some of his food essays first.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 01, 2008, 05:27:58 AM
Fastnachts is the correct spelling according to two Pennsylvania Dutch cookbooks that include the recipe. Neither uses potato water in the recipe.

Bear in mind, Maddie, that the Pennsylvania Dutch include more than the Amish religion. It includes the Moravians, the Dunkards, the Lutherans, and others, including the Catholic. My own family was primarily Catholic. The foods of the region are more Pennsyvlania Dutch than specifically Amish.


Title: Doing the Pretzel Twist!
Post by: weezo on February 01, 2008, 07:36:39 PM
Check out the doing in Reading and learn how to twist a pretzel (after you learn the season forcast from the Groundhog at the Pagoda!


http://www.berkshistory.org:80/news.html




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 02, 2008, 01:09:48 PM
I read up on him last night.He seems a good old ornery cuss.Came out of Wallace Stegners writing group.One funny little thing in the Gourmet article was after a lunch of Lamb from his daughters farm and pole beans from his he was sipping single malt  instead of Kentucky Whiskey.I read a few people comparing his Port Williams stories to lesser Faulkner but that's a plus in my book.I will take a look at short stories first in the fiction but mean to read some of his food essays first.


He's not really quite Faulkner, Caintuck is a world not yet Southern, you have to drive through it to Tennessee and you begin noticing immediately as the signs flash by,"Holy Cow! I'm in Abe Lincoln territory!"  So in other words, it is one of the routes "Refugee slaves" took North" having to go due east in Michigan to cross Lake Erie into Ontario at Miss Shadd's, a light-skin woman who boated them across.  The Hemmings/Jefferson children made their way from there to Wisconsin; which is in the record of Wisconsin's State Historical Society.

Are all these food essays in the February issue of Gourmet?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 02, 2008, 02:25:25 PM
weezo,

What's with the Pagoda?  I've seen it many times(because I usually go up to the Bavarian Inn); but have never figured how one gets to it. What was it originally used for, why was it built, and what's inside it now?

Re: Pennsylvania Dutch food.  I'm hip, since my great grandmother was born here in 1830 but her parents arrived here from France although her mother was a Prussian.

I try to get to the Moravians local church pre-Xmas season when they raise money by raffle, and candle sales, Moravian sugar cakes, etc., because up until recently( I do not know if that is the case any more this year or last), they ran a childrens' hospital at Ramalah in Palestine for children physically or mentally disfigured/disabled by the continuous hostilities. And, the money goes to the support of that hospital, from the Christmas "sale".  They are descended from congregations converted by the Gnostic disciples of Jesus who went East to Persia and India,doubled back through northwest through Ukraine westward to the Moravian Pale of Czechoslavakia. In the Catholic Church, whether Roman or Eastern Orthodox, Saints Cyril and Methodius were the patrons of the Eastern European communities of Moravians.

Nontheless, the style of food here regionally is Palatinate-Rhein German because the Amish were the first to arrive by way of the port of Klepfeld
on the Northern German coast in the early to mid-18th.century; their diet modified according to what they could grow in this region, so you do not find customary German foods like the nice rye rolls that I grew up with among more urbane volks of German descent. My first home here, on a farm among the Stoltzfus related families, gave me a surprise within the first year when I went to a "potluck" invitation in the neighbourhood and, listening to one of the sisters of  my Amish benefactor who located a place for me to live --who is the oldest woman of the farm with several households, she began to relate their lands' history from their records. The farm was not called, "Clearwood" for nothing.  Having to clear a deeply forested area  before they could field cultivate, severely limited the available kitchen garden crops.    I had begun experimenting with many of these Heirloom seeds by using them in the Midwest by 1970.  The German Howard Tomato is particularly good dating back to seed saving early after their arrival; as well as a number of dry-beans.  They were not as skilled with potato keeping as we were in the northern Midwest, and this is obvious in their diet emphasis upon nudeln and gnep but what they obtained in potatoes from Maryland( I suspect. My son was engaged to one of the Utz  girls from the Potato chip family) provided them the means of lengthening the shelf life of home-baked bread which remains soft when potato water from drained cooked potatoes is used in the bread dough recipe. Which is how it ended up in the fastnachts. Those with it, stay fresh a tad longer.

My point though was your recalled recipe-name was kind of a play on words, because being anabaptists rather than Catholic, die Amischer fasts not at all.  They do not "go without" food, in order to put aside expenses to feed the hungry by charity but instead "share" and barter by custom, people exchange work according to their skills; they do not even practice the custom of proselytizing outsiders/auslanders to their religious traditions while their birthrate produces plenty of family members to keep up their community which means there is no reason to convert others to their lifestyle.  They will contribute to family members  who do not decide to remain Amish and decide to marry into another Mennonite tradition however which does believe in doing mission work in other areas of the world beset by some difficulty, as they did post-Katrina in Mississippi, or among refugees of war, earthquakes, genocides, you name it.

I do miss all the other styles of German cooking which I was familiar with where my family lived amidst a plethora of German restaurateurs competing with each other. For instance although I made some Southern fried chicken with milk gravy because Mardi Gras has begun, I will probably make some Leberknoedel soup at some point between now and Valentine's Day.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 02, 2008, 07:33:31 PM
Maddie,

Your perspective on Pa Dutch cooking is different than mine. The fastnachts in my cookbooks (published in Reading, same one my mom had, just a newer printing), does not include potato water. Some stores around here in VA sell potato bread, but I really don't like it. I do, however like rye and pumpernickle and whole wheat/grain breads including those that include oatmeal. But, not potato bread.

The Pagoda in Reading was built in the 40's. Some guy who spent time in the far east, decided on the style of the building, and put it on the mountaintop. He intended to make it into a high-style restaurant (my mother always said it was to be a high-class bordella since he included upstairs rooms, but the historians at the Pagoda say that is simply not true). They had to get a liquor license from the city, which refused it since there were enough bars in the city.

There is a road that winds up the side of the mountain to the Pagoda, and then across to the old radio tower. It is called Skyline Drive (of course), and is (or was) the scene of races down the mountain. Wasn't into car racing back then, but we could always tell when the race had been recent, since the haybales were still pilled at all of the curves on the road. When my mother was young, there were also stone steps up the side of the mountain. There are still traces of them, but they haven't been maintained. You can of course, see the Pagoda from almost anywhere in downtown Reading. Just ask anyone how to get there.

When I was a girl, there were three locations in Reading that staged fireworks for the 4th of July. All three could be seen at once from the Pagoda, which was where we went to watch them in some years. Up on the mountain, you couldn't hear the ones that didn't do right and let out the loud boom that would cause whomever was the baby, to burst into screams. So, up the moutain we went.

I can't remember how we got to the Pagoda when we were there for Mom's funeral. Seems we took the road from the cemetary into town, passed St. Joe's Hospital, and came out at the entrance to Skyline Drive by the stone recreations and parks building. Coming down, we passed the Genesius Theatre, where Chris worked when she wasn't doing New York.

If you go to the link I shared with you for the newsletter, you can subscribe to the newsletter. It comes out whenever the guy has news - once a week or once a month, or whatever. You can also email him with questions. He may be able to point you to a better source on the history of the Pagoda. He knows some of my family, since Aunt Lorraine and her daughter Diane are member of the Historical society, and Irvin keeps up with the family geneology. Diane bought one of the big old houses on Centre Avenue that are part of the Christmas tour. She is renovating the house and hope to have it on the tour in a year or two.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 11, 2008, 05:13:12 PM
DOWN HOME WITH THE NEELYS

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/cda/recipe_print/0,1946,FOOD_9936_119759_PRINT-RECIPE-FULL-PAGE,00.html

Grilled Pound Cake Sundaes with Raspberry Topping
from the Neelys

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/cda/recipe_print/0,1946,FOOD_9936_119755_PRINT-RECIPE-FULL-PAGE,00.html

Grandma Neely's Fried Pork Chop
Vegetable Soup

Pat and Gina Neely and their family own and operate some of Tennessee's best - and devilishly delicious - barbecue restaurants.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ny/article/0,3190,FOOD_30858_5769574,00.html

This is the article that proves there is a purpose in the existence of McDonald if you have forethought and a goal in mind.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_ny/article/0,3190,FOOD_30858_5769570,00.html

About Gina


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 11, 2008, 05:20:37 PM
This is the most recent addition to the Saturday food line up on tv. I'm a little miffed that I can't locate the picture that I had this morning of the old time kitchen and staff as it originally was when they began.

I started the above recipes with the dessert because I was so taken with how they put that pound cake together that I've decided that is on my menu(sans grilling, however) for Valentine's Day, although I will substitute because I don't use imported raspberries (unless there happen to be some Cascadian freezer brand from the Northwest Coast). I think this will be just as good with a tart cherry sauce given a touch of almond
extract.

Now, next post, for the nitty gritty....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 11, 2008, 05:21:35 PM
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/cda/recipe_print/0,1946,FOOD_9936_116789_PRINT-RECIPE-FULL-PAGE,00.html

Memphis-Style Hickory-Smoked
Beef and Pork Ribs

with their famous "rub" and bbq sauce


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 13, 2008, 11:08:16 PM
I think this belongs here.

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/?storyID=17084


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 14, 2008, 05:31:46 PM
Red dinner tonight.....potato pirogis with marinara meat sauce, salad of romaine, raddichio, red onions and orange with a red wine vinegar dressing and cracked black pepper, heart shaped dried cherry scones with cherry clotted cream.  Gotta go with white wine, though, the husband isn't a big fan of red.

Happy Valentines!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 14, 2008, 05:51:10 PM
Laurie,

A feast fit for a King!

I made a chocolate cake (in my bundt pan) with chocolate icing, and Steve is going to cook the steaks. It's been years since I made a cake, but I bought the mix some weeks ago, and last week promised it for Valentine's Day. Also picked up a little bouquet of pink carnations to put a smile on hubby's face. He woke up feeling very shakey and nervous, which continued while he got an estimate to replace the front porch taken out by the strong winds on Monday.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 14, 2008, 06:48:06 PM
Chocolate bundt cake....yummers!    In our house, my husband brings tulips for Valentines.  By the middle of February, I just can't stand winter anymore and tulips make things feel like a promise of spring.

Pink carnations sound sweet.   You know, I've never bought my husband flowers.....closet sexist, do you think?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 14, 2008, 07:02:07 PM
Laurie,

The last few days while the tv has shown ad after ad about what to buy for Valentine's Day, and Steve cannot drive by himself, so I went out myself, and bought him flowers. It is a tiny bouquet, the only one available at the store I went to without waiting a few hours for more to arrive (not a florist, a drug store serviced by a small florist). It just struck me as something different to do for him, and it did perk him up.

We just polished off the steaks and will cut the cake after that digests.

Hope your sweetie enjoys the banquet you prepared for him!

Oh, earlier this week, I took a picture of our first crocuses for the season. I'm sure the daffodils will be showing green soon. For some reason, tulips do not do well in our yard - perhaps it's the moles and voles that the cats don't catch. Whatever it is leave the daffodils alone, so that's what we have instead.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 14, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
We get our flowers from the Kroger across the street, and they seem to last longer than any we've ever found at a florist shop. 

I expect crocuses (I have purple, yellow and white) to come up around the first of March, some years a little sooner, some a little later.  We have grape hyacinths that come up shortly after.  But, I have tulips that grow on the south side of my house, and they always make their appearance exactly on my birthday in mid-march...nice gift, eh?

I never used to have tulips, but a kindly squirrel transplanted them from a neighbor's house.  I keep hoping he'll bring back my dahlias, but so far no luck.  Apparently he feels it was a fair trade.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 15, 2008, 05:47:40 PM
"my birthday in mid-march"   Ah, no wonder, a cusper, midway after March comes in like a lion.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 15, 2008, 06:13:30 PM
Ah....so you are one of those who view  astrology as a science.  Doesn't surprise me in the least.  Probably something you could have cleared up with an education from a reputable institution....somewhere like, oh I don't know...let's say somewhere like Princeton......


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on February 15, 2008, 06:39:12 PM
Yank Guy is a moke.How does one cook a moke?Bake,Fry,Broil  or stew.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 15, 2008, 09:34:36 PM
Maddie,

I don't think mid march would be considered the "cusp" in traditional astrology. since the change of signs occurs in the early 20's of each month, a "cusper" would be someone with a birthday between the 20th and the end of the month.

In any event, it is rather convoluted to pose a judgement based on astrology when your topic is her exposure to real science. But, since you brought it up, try to guess what sign her husband, the scientist is.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on February 19, 2008, 07:44:48 PM
So I was putzing around and I found this page featuring vintage (1974) recipe cards.  I found them both horrific and hilarious. The Fluffy Mackerel Pudding is what initially caught my eye.   If you're interested in walking down a culinary (and really, really scary) memory lane, here -
http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 19, 2008, 11:33:17 PM
Ah....so you are one of those who view  astrology as a science.  Doesn't surprise me in the least.  Probably something you could have cleared up with an education from a reputable institution....somewhere like, oh I don't know...let's say somewhere like Princeton......

Yes. Quite. That's why I suggested to weezo the findings of Niels Bohr.  Remember Wittgenstein?  Actually, I was hoping to do my astronomy course at Haverford. But I changed my mind just in time a couple of years before 9/11 which rather changes everything as to whether you want to be in residence in that particular area in case of civil war and martial law, that sort of thing.

In the meanwhile, astrology works very nicely in vegetable gardening as to water uptake according to planting dates of plant varieties in synch to moon cycles. That's been proven over and over again.

And weezo, the cusp varies as months are never the same in relative length because of the precession of the equinoxes. The Vernal Equinox will be on the 20th of Marz, this year, introducing Aries.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 19, 2008, 11:41:06 PM
So I was putzing around and I found this page featuring vintage (1974) recipe cards.  I found them both horrific and hilarious. The Fluffy Mackerel Pudding is what initially caught my eye.   If you're interested in walking down a culinary (and really, really scary) memory lane, here -
http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards.html

Well, my favorite has to be the Melon Mousse...Now there is something I would love to serve to guests (uninvited...or the mother-in-law).  Did they use melons that had been sitting on the counter all day long and oxidized into that wonderful brown color?  Do you think they "bought" their melon from the big bin behind the grocery store?  But I suspect these dishes would do a far better job of killing the appetite than any diet pill on the market, so kudos to Weight Watchers.
http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards/melonmousse.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 19, 2008, 11:49:42 PM
So I was putzing around and I found this page featuring vintage (1974) recipe cards.  I found them both horrific and hilarious. The Fluffy Mackerel Pudding is what initially caught my eye.   If you're interested in walking down a culinary (and really, really scary) memory lane, here -
http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards.html

Well, my favorite has to be the Melon Mousse...Now there is something I would love to serve to guests (uninvited...or the mother-in-law).  Did they use melons that had been sitting on the counter all day long and oxidized into that wonderful brown color?  Do you think they "bought" their melon from the big bin behind the grocery store?  But I suspect these dishes would do a far better job of killing the appetite than any diet pill on the market, so kudos to Weight Watchers.
http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards/melonmousse.html

On the other hand, if you were to mold that thing into the shape of a turkey, you might have a lovely Thanksgiving entree to serve your vegetarian friends.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on February 20, 2008, 01:45:09 PM
LOL astrology chat in Food thread.  What system should be based on the whims of Babylonian shepherds who get bored and start in with, "hey, that cluster of stars looks sort of like a lion....so, yeah, everyone born when the sun is in that section of the sky will be sort of leonine, you know...."

What I notice is that people do have a seasonal quality, sort of like grapes, maybe -- something to do with the levels of daylight, ambient temps, and such when they pop out of mom.   For example, do you spend your early months all swaddled up and indoors or can you crawl around in the grass semi-naked?  I'm sure it has some effect. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 20, 2008, 02:37:55 PM
Laurie,

You are entirely toooooo funny!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 20, 2008, 02:39:34 PM
Barton...I think you might have something with your seasonal theory.  Astrologically, how would that compute for whatever sign one is who is born in February in the Southern Hemisphere vs. one born at the same time in the Northern?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 20, 2008, 02:41:05 PM
Anne...Harrie's whole weight watchers recipe was a blast.  Which recipe might you prefer?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 20, 2008, 03:06:41 PM
Laurie,

Trying to see the websites, I just keep getting notices that IE cannot display the pages. I've tried a few tricks to get them in but to no avail.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on February 20, 2008, 03:40:50 PM
So I was putzing around and I found this page featuring vintage (1974) recipe cards.  I found them both horrific and hilarious. The Fluffy Mackerel Pudding is what initially caught my eye.   If you're interested in walking down a culinary (and really, really scary) memory lane, here -
http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards.html

Where on earth did you find this website, harrie?  I am laughing so hard I have tears running down my face after viewing "Marcy's Enchilada".  Oh my God - tooooo funny!

I started Weight Watchers a few weeks back - I'll have to post that link on their boards.  Thanks for making my day.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on February 20, 2008, 04:02:47 PM
Perhaps it would be interesting to explore the national obsession with jello, or "congealed salad", as my dear grandmother used to say, in the 60s and 70s. 

Case in point:

http://www.candyboots.com/wwcards/inspirationsoup.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 20, 2008, 04:30:40 PM
desdemona,

oh, I just love "congealed salad" in summer, especially if it is shaky and has jambon et persile.  There is one with breast of chicken that is delish. But you have to remember to simmer the whole chicken so you get the jelling from the chicken bones as you do with the ham for the other one.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 20, 2008, 04:41:57 PM
Barton...I think you might have something with your seasonal theory.  Astrologically, how would that compute for whatever sign one is who is born in February in the Southern Hemisphere vs. one born at the same time in the Northern?


You really don't know, do you?  Ask your husband to explain how that is done. Every individual varies by both time and place.

I was trying to remember where I recently saw it, and then remembered last night looking for what Donotremove mentioned to me that I needed to correct in a discussion forum, I opened the CIA text book trying to find the date, time and place of event and for each country that you peruse in the CIA fact book, they start out on the front page, a little ways down, which says:"Coordinates".

In other words you take the latitude and longitude when you want to blow something up or time a lunar eclipse like tonight and where it will become visible at one time, or maybe you are just out discovering things all at sea and you have to read your navigational charts and then you enter them into the log.

As to the Barton theory: right on, Barton!  Our Scots ancestors have been reading Vergil or Virgil (your choice, ever since the Roman poet wrote his treatise on farming in Latin as a major poetic work) and then they farmed according to his precise instructions.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 20, 2008, 05:08:12 PM
LOL....my husband has studied and taught Astronomy....he doesn't buy into astrology.  They are not the same thing at all.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 20, 2008, 07:43:37 PM
Laurie,

I finally got the site to work, and oh what a stroll down memory lane it was. I especially liked the coated liver pate. I think the words for it mean Liver Pate in hiding under the whitish goo (miracle whip?). I remember making liver pate back in the 70's, and getting the boys to eat it. Had to, it bombed at the party it was intended for. Everyone ate the cheese with the crackers. And, the web designer wondered about the arrangements in the pictures, but that is how recipes were portrayed in magazines as well. I had one of those copper fish-shaped molds - but used it as a wall ornament for the kitchen. Never made anything in it. That rosy salad is done wrong. You have to chop up the red cabbage, otherwise, you can't cut the mold into the necessary slices. And, yes, I remember strewing greenery around a plate to make the entre look more enticing. I often made a bunny cake (loaf pan and cupcake for a head with paper ears and whiskers) covered all in coconut, and strewed the cocanut over the plate under the cake. Nice for munching on as I wandered in and out of the kitchen, tho I think the boys ate more of the coconut than I got!

I guess that celery log was stuffed with cream cheese, which was a popular cheap "hors d'ovres" in those days. My kids like it better when I stuffed the celery with peanut butter. But, for that log, I wonder if they cooked the celery to make it look so   ....   so ..... so past its prime!





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 20, 2008, 10:18:40 PM
Anne...I love liver pate.  I've made homemade only once.  This was pre-food-processor days and I blew the lid off my blender. 

Truth to tell, I liked the celery-peanutbutter things more than my kids.  Now that I'm the only one in the house who eats peanut butter, I dip the celery directly into the jar.   Celery dipped in extra crunchy peanut butter....yummy.

(Today, even those weight watchers things sound good.  Third day of fruit and detox tea and I can't wait to have my morning toast and jam tomorrow.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 20, 2008, 10:37:33 PM
Laurie,

Back in the days before we ever heard about cholesteral, I was a big eater of all kinds of liver, with chilcken livers, floured, sauted (we called in frying back then), and water and rice added to make a skillet dinner. I also made chicken livers in scrambled eggs for brunches. Sadly, the first thing that came off my diet when when my cholesteral was tested and found too high, was liver. Hubby is happy. He is not a liver-lover.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 21, 2008, 12:39:28 AM
Anne....cholesterol.  I'm lucky. My total cholesterol is around 110 and triglycerides under 100.  The good cholesterol is a little low and so I have a handful of nuts every day (unless I happen to be passing a hungry squirrel and feel the need to share).   But, because of other problems, my doctor says to eat a hamburger once a week.... :) :) (without fries   :'(  :'( )

I can do without liver and onions, occasionally I will get a taste for it (the fried onions part always sounds good).  Growing up, we used to have liver and onions once a week.  My mother used flour in cooking it, but I'm not sure why.  I would think you could just fry the liver up in some oil, take the liver out of the pan, carmelize some onions and toss the whole thing back together.  I've never cooked it, though, because the husband doesn't like liver. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 21, 2008, 07:07:19 AM
Laurie,

If it was a once a week meal, it is likely that the doctor advised your mom to make liver for the iron content. Lots of children who were anemic, were encouraged to eat liver for the high iron content. When my boys were young, a doctor said they were anemic and recommended frequent fish in the diet as well as liver. The boys loved fish sticks, so they became a staple. At that time, fish sticks were made with real fish, probably cod, instead of fish meal.

I used to flour liver in order to make a start to a gravy. If the liver was floured before cooking, you could just add water to make the gravy.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on February 21, 2008, 11:29:37 AM
Okay, I know this is off-topic, but since harrie "took us there" (the 70s, that is) yesterday...

http://lileks.com/institute/sears1973/index.html

Confession:  I owned a pair of black and white flare-legged, cuffed pants very similar to those shown in the junior wear section.  And the shoes to go along with them.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on February 21, 2008, 02:04:54 PM
Oh, just looking at some of those double-knits makes me all itchy.  I think my biggest fashion offense at the time was a pair of bell-bottom hip huggers with random-width vertical stripes of red, yellow, blue and dark green.  I- I'm just sorry. But it really wasn't my fault, my mother thought they looked wonnnderful, etc.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on February 21, 2008, 02:32:59 PM
ahh, such fond memories of chicken livers sauteed with onions and then scrambled in eggs!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on February 21, 2008, 02:56:55 PM
Hey, why not just take a few swigs of Geritol?



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on February 21, 2008, 04:23:40 PM
geritol tastes like liver and eggs?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 21, 2008, 07:47:29 PM
Desdemona....those kinds of pants are coming back.  Better fabric and a slightly different cut, but there is definitely a seventies look about them. 

Law...how do you prepare liver and onion with eggs?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 24, 2008, 12:23:42 AM
Well, since law25 hasn't made it back, I could leave a note for him that I grind up liver, followed by onions. In the old days, we used beef liver; not any more.  Veal liver is not quite the authentic flavor but chicken livers are too mild.  I saved an old style meat grinder that you clamp to the just right width of a table or cupboard, or work area "edge".

Eggs go in this somewhere, and cracker crumbs if you have the unsalted around because the salt is just as bad as the cholesterol. Many Scots people by the way tolerate  high cholesterol but I don't recommend it since the last time somebody accused me of giving medical advice in the assembled company of mass authority .   Where I come from , food is medicine( a doctor's household).

The liver grinds to an unsolidified mass which you then keep well covered in the refrigerator where the chill will firm it up.  Some people cook this in a very carefully prepared clear beef broth, German style, which more often is used with fine noodles for soup. Nowadays they recommend you use a couple of pounds of chicken wings with carrot and celery and onion slowly simmered.

When you remove the liver from the refrigerator,I fold in some snipped parsley, and since the onion,celery,carrot have been removed, the chicken wings can be sealed in a bag or container for something else, before:
           you start to form the Leberknoedel with a small scoop or ladle,
one at a time, pushing each one off with a spoon or spatula down into the low simmering broth, the dumplings will  rise to the top as they are done.

Put at least two in an individual soup bowl,  and snip some more parsley over the top.  At one time, this was served in all German bars and that was how I was introduced to it by Helmut Gerhardt who probably missed  his lost home in Munich.

I will check this recipe again for you, to be sure if there are seasonings that I've missed, as I tend to improvise according to instinct. Your body tells you what to eat, if you listen to what it suggests.

Another thing that we ate in childhood, was a form of liverwurst made only as German sausage makers did which meant it had a much larger diameter which you could slice thickly and unlike the commercial brands of today. Our mothers would wrap a piece of bacon around the perimeter of the sausage and close it with a toothpick removed before children were allowed this outdoor treat. We went off to the wooded parks where the river passed by and no one else was around. The mothers had turns about lighting the fire in the brick grills while the other watched what the kids got into. When the bacon was down, the whole slab of liver and bacon was flipped on to a solid hamburger bun or a kaiser roll and eaten rather than hamburgers.

Chicken livers are preferably bought from Empire Kosher, and cooked carefully not too long and not too quickly so as to be undercooked, you can do something similar to  Weezo's method for onions, after the liver, or with the liver, (or even those canned fried onions can be added much later, or maybe you only want onion powder) I usually get a little wine into the saute pan. hard-boiled eggs are chopped to add after the livers have cooled off and been minced or ground, or indeed just chopped, some people like to separate the egg yolks from the egg whites of the hard boiled eggs and push the cooked yolk through a sieve to decorate the top of the serving dish of chopped liver, after you have folded in the chopped cooked hard-boiled egg white and some parsley to the chopped liver. Otherwise you cover the serving with a layer of snipped parsley. The old method was to saute this raw liver at the start in some judicious amount of good cooking oil which is pareve because butter was not to be used with the meat in Jewish households. The best recipes for this process are usually in Jewish cookbooks, like Molly Goldberg's whose uncle had the best recipe in her family(or, was it the hamentaschen?).

She says to use a little salt, and a lot less pepper, but I do it in reverse, careful on the salt and think that pepper is zesty when it comes time for me to buy what is now an expensive proposition of good Hungarian paprika.   Good rye bread is still available from Panera, and I would not give it up no matter how mad I get at them for the other stuff that they mess up in their routine.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 24, 2008, 12:53:41 AM
Harrie, remember those ginger roots contaminated with lead that you told us about?

I found them! at my local supermarket, the rather extra large store once founded by Mennonites who had no idea it would come to this.

You can recognize the ginger root is contaminated because it has a greasy look,somewhat black at the joints and ends, unlike the dull thick Jamaican style of ginger root, nor the very best ginger root in which  the thinner and finer the peel,the better.   

What I am describing is not better, it appears to come close to having that translucent skin but in the end after all you realize it looks somewhat greasy and there is no reason for the blackening to be there.

I did not buy it and take it home. I told the Produce arrangers what it most likely was and they were nonchalant as they don't remove things that they can sell if people trust them enough to buy it.  They still sell Mexican onions/scallions. i went home and used up the jar of thinly sliced Australian ginger for my Chinese New Year cooking two weeks ago at the new moon. The first night making the meatless Buddhist dish of fried bean curd, with condiments and vegetables like snowpea sprouts rather than South American snow-pea pods. I used to grow my own and have some frozen for the end of winter/start of Spring New Year. There are fresh bean sprouts available here; but they forgot to put out the garlic chives so I had to make do with regular chives. Then there are frozen Asian mushrooms unless you want to reconstitute dried mushrooms.

The second night I did pot stickers with the ginger and ground pork and chopped vegetables( since almost all of them come from China now, I worked with fresh products and substitutions.  These are served with a hot mustard made from dry mustard powder and water or vinegar in one dish; while I make another sweet sour cause from things like the new Orange marmalade with ginger preserves, made by St.Dalfour,from France combined with a little arrowroot thickening in some orange juice that you heat up and stir. Arrowroot is clearer than cornstarch as a thickener, so I also use it with canned tart cherries at this time of year when February desserts are required.

The sweet sour sauce can have a jot of Rice-wine vinegar added because orange just is not sour enough but rather more sweet nowadays; and I had a mincing of red pepper so that it doesn't look bland.

The same sauces are used for egg-roll, but I have lost my knack, my once definite experience for producing them.  Perhaps it is too dangerous to make egg-rolls at my age anyway, one way or another. So probably it is time to give them up. If they absorb oil because the oil is not hot enough, they are not crisp and too much oil remains on them and most likely in them.  If the oil is at the right temperature, you must have a sure hand, and a clear head with attentive eyes and no disturbances to lose your concentration because it is a dangerous sport.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: MrUtley3 on February 25, 2008, 06:21:07 AM
Anne....cholesterol.  I'm lucky. My total cholesterol is around 110 and triglycerides under 100.  The good cholesterol is a little low and so I have a handful of nuts every day (unless I happen to be passing a hungry squirrel and feel the need to share).   But, because of other problems, my doctor says to eat a hamburger once a week.... :) :) (without fries   :'(  :'( )

I can do without liver and onions, occasionally I will get a taste for it (the fried onions part always sounds good).  Growing up, we used to have liver and onions once a week.  My mother used flour in cooking it, but I'm not sure why.  I would think you could just fry the liver up in some oil, take the liver out of the pan, carmelize some onions and toss the whole thing back together.  I've never cooked it, though, because the husband doesn't like liver. 


Someone say, "hamburger"?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/NEWS06/802240589/1008/news06


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on February 25, 2008, 09:25:58 AM
Someone say, "hamburger"?

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080224/NEWS06/802240589/1008/news06

Okay, I'm going to need some extra tomato on that thang.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 25, 2008, 11:18:15 AM
Utley....yes, we drove over to see that.  The place was a madhouse though, so we didn't stay to taste.  But, I have to say, a 134 pound hamburger is quite the sight.  We had to part a little bit away from the restaurant and you could smell the hamburger cooking about a quarter of a mile away.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on February 28, 2008, 09:51:25 AM
So, I made a WW recipe that was really good.  (I don't "do" WW, just did the recipe.)  Here it is, if anyone's interested:

Chicken Tagine with Apricots: 7 points - Flex Plan. Three stars
The way I made the dish it was 8 pts. because of added oil - see below
I used whole wheat couscous and cooked in vegetable stock for additional flavor.

4 oz. dried apricot halves
1 cup fat-free chicken broth
1 pound skinless, boneless chicken breast, cut into 1" cubes
1 tbsp. all-purpose flour
1 medium onion chopped
1/2 tsp. ground cinnamon
1 tbsp. honey
1/4 cup slivered or sliced toasted almonds
1/8 tsp. salt or to taste
1/8 tsp. fresh ground pepper or to taste
2 cups cooked couscous or whole wheat couscous

In a saucepan, bring the chicken broth and apricots to a simmer and then set aside.
Toss chicken with flour (I seasoned my flour first with s&p)
Coat a large, nonstick saucepan with cooking spray and place over high heat
Sautee chicken until coated chicken until golden brown - about five minutes (I needed to add about 1 tblsp. oil in the midst of this as the chicken was sticking and the pan was too dry. The oil added less than 1 pt. to each serving)
Add diced onion, reduce heat to medium low and cook until onions are soft, about 10 mins.
Add cinnamon and honey
Stir in apricots, broth and almonds
Season to taste with s&p.
Simmer 5-10 minutes
Serves four with 1/2 cup couscous per serving.

It came from this thread on Chowhound, if anyone's interested in other WW talk/recipes.
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/380557 (This is where I got the goofy '70s recipes from, too.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on February 28, 2008, 12:11:50 PM
I'm doing WW, harrie.  Thanks for the link.  BTW, how goes the Ricardian project?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: MrUtley3 on February 28, 2008, 03:31:05 PM
Utley....yes, we drove over to see that.  The place was a madhouse though, so we didn't stay to taste.  But, I have to say, a 134 pound hamburger is quite the sight.  We had to part a little bit away from the restaurant and you could smell the hamburger cooking about a quarter of a mile away.

The bun weighed 50 lbs.

Was it whole wheat?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 28, 2008, 03:47:17 PM
I couldn't tell.  It looked pretty dark, but someone there made a joke about whether or not the bun was healthy and someone else said that it was unlikely that you could cook a bun that size evenly if it was made from a denser grain.    But I'm not sure, because they are putting that burger the menu.  It costs $350 and you have to order 24 hours in advance.  It seems to me that if you are going to pay $350 for a burger that you can get any kind of bread you want.

Generally, that restaurant does a lot of burgers on kaiser rolls and sesame seed buns.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on February 28, 2008, 03:50:21 PM
By the way, here's the specs:

The ingredients for the 150-pound "Absolutely Ridiculous Burger:


120 pounds (precooked) Black Angus ground beef (about 90 pounds cooked)
18 3/4 pounds cheese
15 pounds bacon
7 1/2 pounds lettuce
15 pounds tomatoes
48-pound bun


I could take or leave the cheese, but oh man.....15 POUNDS of bacon.  I don't remember the last time I had bacon.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on February 28, 2008, 03:52:48 PM
I've temporarily dropped the R3 book by Hicks to read Weir's The Wars of the Roses for background info before I go back to Hicks. Hopefully people will stop dying, life will someday get more normal (whatever that is), and I can read at full steam soon.  Of course, we start digging the garden mid-May or so.  It's always something!

By the way, Hitler and Stalin sounds very interesting to me! -- have you seen Downfall with Bruno Ganz?  Excellent flick. 

Token food mention.... I got nothin'.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on February 29, 2008, 12:42:27 AM
Thanks, harrie, for #794, which was just the premonitional taste that struck me following a too quick grab a bite to eat on way to class this evening. Now, if I can get to that chicken....

Sorry to hear of your family loss (plural condolences); something similar has been occuring to those I've known for many years.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on February 29, 2008, 09:29:45 AM
Thanks, madupont.  It's all a part of life and all that, but sheesh.  And condolences right back to you.


Title: Re: Green Balls in Alfredo
Post by: weezo on February 29, 2008, 01:38:12 PM
Hubbie just invented a new skillet meal. He announced it by the above name.

First, he took a package of Alfredo sauce mix, garlic flavored, made it up, added two cans of tuna and a package of brussel sprouts, added some dry pineapple sage, paprika, and celery seed. Heated it all through, then added a pan of cooked and drained whole wheat noodles, mixed, and served it. We each had big bowls of it for lunch today, and there is enough left for lunch for one or two more days.

The green balls not only looked interesting in the dish, they were sweet and succelent against the tuna taste in the sauce. Score another for Steve!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on February 29, 2008, 03:00:15 PM
Did Steve drain the tuna before adding it to the mix?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on February 29, 2008, 04:02:22 PM
Yep, he drained the tuna - always, we get the tuna in water for lower calories. And, it took 2 pkgs of Alfredo mix and about 2/3 of a bag of noodles. The brussel spouts were frozen, so they didn't need to be drained. It was really a flavorful dish!




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on February 29, 2008, 05:52:44 PM
i do so like green balls with fish.

thank you, thank you.  also knish.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 06, 2008, 04:47:06 PM
Harrie,  I didn't realize it was weight watchers, cooked the chicken anyway sans tagine.  Used a whole chicken, rinsed, coarse salted, shook off excess , increased the flour to 3T. in which I mixed the cinnamon (and ground pepper),coated the entire chicken with that.

Apricots were simmered in the broth, turned off, honey added to that.

Onions were sauteed more on the "sweated side" not browned and then the almonds were added to brown quickly and stirred in with the onions; I did seriously consider using pine nuts but--

I had some leftover whole kasha. Scraped the onions and almond slices into the kasha and stuffed the whole "broiler" chicken( not roasting chicken).

Added just sufficient oil to the pan in which the roasting would occur and -- after securing the closure of the bird with some tooth-picks, while the oven was heating, I quickly browned the chicken on three sides, breast one, breast two, backside. Removed from heat, poured the honeyed apricot chicken broth over it and popped into oven at your usual preferred roasting temperature. Covered to start, then cover removed to brown.  You may have to alternate uncovered and covered until you are sure that your chicken is done and that the cinnamon floured surface does not burn.

Surprisingly, tagine as it were, it still turns out with the preferred Eastern Europe flavor of the Empire Kosher chicken recipe people. Fruit and honey and cinnamon are the very concept of Jewish holiday cooking which we are sliding toward before we know it.  I like variety in chicken as I  go through the year. Originally planned to do this with Sahadi couscous but I didn't have any pita around  or other "wrapping" bread. Which would have doubled our carbs right there!

I did wash a bunch of kale, and ripped it up, usually a scissors makes fast work of the rib,  blanched quickly for several minutes, can be left soaking in the hot blancher if necessary, is then drained and in some small of olive oil is stirred hastily not to burn,keep heat low,salt and pepper and some smoked paprika. Turn off take off heat, give it a stir, and add(not too weight watcherish) some  pitted, sliced Kalamata olives.

Served along with the carved tender chicken and kasha stuffing.

Now, what did I have for dessert?

I don't think that I had; the chicken entree is sufficiently sweet .


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on March 07, 2008, 06:44:42 PM
Glad you liked the chicken, madupont.  I might have to try your version on my next whole bird - sound yummy.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on March 08, 2008, 04:36:43 PM
Today was kielbasa making day.  What a mess, but very much worth it.   We kept the batch small, though - about seven pounds.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 08, 2008, 07:40:59 PM
Today was kielbasa making day.  What a mess, but very much worth it.   We kept the batch small, though - about seven pounds.


Is this in preparation for Easter?  I decided to order a kulich today, from Zingermann's in Michigan but when finding out how much the delivery charges would add to the arrival necessarily some days in advance because Easter is (also) the last day of a weekend, and meanwhile the Easter kulich would just sit there... I asked, if I should freeze it or put it into the refrigerator? but no, "just don't unwrap it; it will be all right).        Perhaps.

I realized that I would take  out the Russian cookbooks, as in the past and work from there.  Either that, or -- Pashka! which is much the same but not baked, because it is a mixture of cream cheese,pot cheese,sourcream and refrigerated once all the fruit is folded in and it is set into a mold which traditionally used to be pyramidical.

Kulich is something you prepare by soaking dried fruit in various kinds of liquers or spirits. Pashka is more refreshing although very rich after you eat a portion.

Meanwhile, I have eatten bean soup because today was good for devoting to simmering a smoked ham hock , adding some dried onion after awhile, then some chopped celery about half a cup, half a cup of grated carrots as well. It is best to let the hock simmer between 2 to 3 hours with maybe a bay-leaf before adding the vegetables and lots of ground pepper, a touch of garlic powder and some marjoram that I thought was disappointing, may have sat on the store shelf too long?   Then you take a thin stick of Italian bread or a French batonne that is a few days old and you slice it thin  for large croutons fried carefully in olive oil in an enameled fry pan.  Why? It rained on and off today, from every direction, as if this were April!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 08, 2008, 07:43:08 PM
Harrie,

Bet you make some wonderful Kielbasa! That is one of our favorite sausages to cook in a pan full of sliced onions, sliced peppers (all colors) and maybe some sliced potatoes or sliced summer squash in season. Deeeelicious!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on March 09, 2008, 12:15:51 AM
madupont, Yes the kielbasa is for Easter (if you ask the hubby) or the coming of spring (if you ask me, the heathen).  The hubby is half Polish, so this is one of the annual things we do.  Your soup sounds good, great for the cold, rainy day we had.

weezo, thanks - but I don't really care for the stuff, though your onions, peppers and taters prep sounds tasty.  We usually do the traditional (I think) sauerkraut, taters and carrots thing.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 09, 2008, 07:34:25 AM
Sauerkraut, taters & carrots also sounds good. Will have to try it that way some time.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on March 17, 2008, 03:06:50 AM
Harrie my aunts husband was Polish(Michalowski) and they had no children so the finished basement of their ranch house was the scene of the family X-mas party and a few others each year at which my uncle would go to a Polish butcher shop in Rochester,N.Y. and buy pounds of fresh made Polish Sausage in the large ring type which he would boil/steam in several pots of water to fit it all along with a really good rye from the Polish Bakery right down the street from the butcher shop.I've never had it served that way anyplace else but it was very tasty with some good mustard.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 18, 2008, 12:08:02 AM
Actually, I wanted to ask you something about the garden, bosox18d. Weren't you doing sweet peas in California?  Any tips, I should know about at the moment, still cold enough to plant them? (East Coast) either in hanging container, standing container, or -- in the ground, sun to shade, to sun in that case?

Any tricks to germinate, do you knick them, or soak them, etc.? Should I give them a refrigeration or freezer pre-planting experience?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on March 18, 2008, 02:44:02 AM
Not sure what your weather is like but when I use seeds I usually buy Renees Seeds and their web site is pretty good on planting info.I do nick them sometimes.I imagine where you are you could start them indoors also.I did not plant any this year.Last year for the first time I found them as small plants in six packs at a garden store but they did not do as well as when I used seeds.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 18, 2008, 08:38:00 PM
Thanks, I like Renee too. In fact, that's what I've got.  It is raining  and will turn warm, up to an exaggerated 61 degrees by tomorrow evening, and then drop again with alternating rain as obviously it has to for Easter.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 23, 2008, 11:54:24 AM
One million people face starvation in north-east India after a plague of rats which strikes twice a century. The plague, or mautam, follows the fruiting of a variety of bamboo, which last happened in 1959. The bamboo fruits attract rats, which then eat other crops including rice. (Observer)



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 28, 2008, 05:43:57 PM
Hey folks-
 
I received an email from the FDA today about cantaloupe products.  Chiquita is the latest company to do a voluntary recall of their cantaloupe.  If you want to buy cantaloupe - either whole or cut and repackaged - check to see if it is Honduran grown.  The labels may also have the following listed:
 
GROWN, PACKED AND SHIPPED BY:
AGROPECUARIA MONTELIBANO
SAN LORENZO, VALLE, HONDURAS
 
There is a potential for salmonella.  Some of the product is sold under "Mike's Melons", "Mayan Pride" and "Chiquita" with Product of Honduras on the label.  Just thought I'd pass this information along.  Return the product to the store or just throw it away.
 
[This was written by Polly(?) to my sister who forwarded to me.]


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on March 28, 2008, 06:04:19 PM
Yeah, my local market has a sign up saying their cantaloupes are from Costa Rica (?) only.  In any case, they're advertising the fact that they're not Honduran.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 28, 2008, 08:54:22 PM
harrie,

We have the best darn cantaloups grown in Lancaster during melon season.  I made it a habit ever since Diet for a Small Planet,and the Nixon administration, to eat things merely when they are in season. Locally. 

Of course artichokes do not grow so swell this far north-eastward but I have not seen a Castroville, California artichoke in the frozen food section in about six years!  I suspect the name of the town made the local Pennsylania business sector wary of offending the Republican administration; even if they made it their business to be officially Mennonite. The world is confusing and nobody ever told them to send a mission to Castroville, Ca. to ask if they had heard the word of Jesus. It's the simple things, you  know.

At this season of the year, it takes about that long, working my way into simpler, salads, warm weather dishes, following Easter and Passover in that order this year, to have room in the refrigerator to put the melon, which is about at the time when we need to find a space for the Cold Tomato Gazpacho!


Title: sauerkraut
Post by: thanatopsy on March 29, 2008, 05:22:17 PM
I am not a big guy but do have a rather large appetite.

Generally, my diet is quite good. My cholesterol level is excellent.  But a couple of years ago I had a problem with triglycerides.  This problem arises from eating a bit too many carbos and my doctor advised that I reduce my weight by 14 pounds. Well, a year after my exam I put on 14 pounds and the doc expected that my triglycerides   level would be abnormally high.

Surprisingly, my level was quite good.

The doc asked, how did you do it?  I replied: sauerkraut!

It turns out several folks suggested this remedy in online chats forums.  And it works!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 29, 2008, 08:12:05 PM
My mother used to drink cold sauerkraut juice. As an adult, I discovered that it is actually quite refreshing, on a limited basis once in awhile. I've made lots of sauerkraut but never was able to turn out the batch that I really prefer, which is a wonderful translucent finely cut and slightly sweet lazy-suzan condiment served with  fried fish in places like Port Washington,Wisconsin.

As a result of my farm-raised mother's sometimes unusual tastes in old-fashioned foods of country people such as herself, another adult acquisition (as in acquired taste) of a habit was  the preference for really cold sauerkraut on hot dogs; but, it is really difficult to get this, other than served at home.   Most places offerend weiners and sauerkraut in Lancaster are not offering them separate, which means that there are hot dogs with semi-hot sauerkraut on them.   Not the same thing at all. And with the buns that this is served on, they become soaked and turn into  mush which is not the idea that I has in mind.

The object very obviously is the contrast between a cold crisp sauerkraut of just the right acidity to make a fairly bland homogenous hot dog into something special on a hot summer day

The piece de resistance,  once you have learned now to roast a chicken stuffed with sauerkraut, is to move on to a Russian treat which is duck with sauerkraut stuffing.  The sauerkraut tenderizes poultry during the cooking. 

Thanatopsy has inspired me to really get into this for triglyceride reduction.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 29, 2008, 09:02:59 PM
Go for it, Maddie!

I'm happy making sauerkraut and pork chops once a year or so. Use the sauerkraut in the deli rather than canned, top with brown sugar, lay the pork chops on top. The sauerkraut will make the pork chops eat like butter!

I prefer relish to sauerkraut on a hot dog. But, if you use a sub roll, you can contain the sauerkraut into the bun and not drip it down the front of you.




Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 30, 2008, 10:55:42 AM
Same goes for the smoked pork chops of winter. In German tradition we sometime  serve these  reddish-pink delicacies with red cabbage from the jar and boiled potatoes; but when sauerkrauted, they tenderize like "butter"and may get some kind of a dumpling.  Which is what I meant about chicken and duck that become permeated with the sauerkraut tenderization process, when the sauerkraut is the stuffing. Then Harrie, for instance, might  like pirogi with it.

These dishes are more often done in the autumn with baked apples or "apple dumplings" which are wrapped in pastry and baked; or maybe just some old fashioned Musselman's apple sauce. I once stopped at their restaurant, I forget exactly where northward of here, perhaps on the way to Kutztown, but it was no great shakes. Pennsylvania-Dutch cooking is poorly represented down here in Lancaster; perhaps Berk's county still has some?

And,weezo, I still have not found the Apple Pan Dowdie, which could mean that it is frontier cooking? I have some other old timer cookbooks to check that out.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 30, 2008, 02:20:41 PM
Maddie,

Look what I found: http://www.fabulousfoods.com/recipes/dessert/cakes/applepandowdy.html

Apple Pan Dowdy is a cobbler, perhaps it's dowdy because it has only a top crust.

I didn't remember it was a Dinah Shore song. It was released in 1946 when I was a year old. I remember it being sung around the house as I was growing up, and singing it myself.

I wonder who wrote the song for Dinah.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 30, 2008, 02:23:31 PM
Now that I know what Pan Dowdy is, and that it can be made with any fruit, I wonder what the name of a pie that has no bottom crust and a crumb crust topping instead of pastry would be called.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on March 30, 2008, 02:24:52 PM
I think that is called a cobbler.


Title: sauerkraut
Post by: thanatopsy on March 30, 2008, 07:44:32 PM
~~ sauerkraut tenderizes poultry during the cooking ~~


At times I will add sauerkraut to my homemade chicken soup. It adds much flavor and the two make for a good combo.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on March 30, 2008, 11:55:53 PM
Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy was written by Guy Wood and Sammy Gallop (early 40s) and was made famous by Dinah Shore, although many singers recorded it--Ella Fitzgerald for one.

The dish is Amish in origin.  Some call it a treacle.

This information was found by Googling.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 01:20:46 AM
How strange, Donotremove.  Treacle has something in common with shoo fly pie; the latter is molasses of the lighter sort, and the former is English syrup quite a bit darker in a lidded can which you must pry open

But I'm glad weezo found it, because by now I haven't much patience to copy out the recipe that I finally found under, Apple; in the Woman's Day Encyclopedia of Cooking.

I have yet to find a single Amish cookbook that serves up that recipe. Oh, by the way, their local version of shoo fly pie is quite a bit sweeter( they even use karo syrup ) than anything I made. I'm also not fond of the load of dry sweetened flour dust they heap on top the pie --everything here is finished off that way--and I just hate it, it is not "streusel" of the kind that I'm used to with fruit pies.

When I do  shoo fly, I sink all the flour crumbs into the pie where it is to become a cakey sponge, a solid body to the pie.  The main  attraction of it is the breakfast coffee, after the men come in from morning milking.  The only time that  I wish the flies had been shooed was my very expensive experiment in summer German-White-Cherry Pie, which attracted a good dozen huge blue bottle flies as big as nickels, because the men intrigued by an open cellar door and a truck in the drive had to stop and see what was happening in the cellar and after they let in all the flies, they left the cellar door open, the flies flew upstairs and slipped under the kitchen door and took over the kitchen, hiding behind curtains and ruining the pie.

Does anyone know why men do this?  My mother was taught to say about this,"What is wrong with you; were you born in a barn?"


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 01:23:17 AM
Ps, now I am going to sneak a piece of lemon-sponge pie.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 01:26:52 AM
Whaduh ya say, weezo, don't you 'spect we ought to tell thanatopsy to put some knepp into the Chicken with sauerkraut soup?

I went to school with somebody by that name; her mother made knepp soup with milk. Being German.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 31, 2008, 05:53:22 AM
Hmmm, unless my dutch is failing me this morning, you are suggesting he add dumplings to his chicken and sauercraut soup. They would help it to be rib-sticking. Knepp is just pie crust rolled into balls and cooked until they are done in the soup pot.

I wonder how apples and sauerkraut would work out. Put the sugar and spices with the apples, top with sauerkraut and bake until everything is done and hot.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on March 31, 2008, 12:02:55 PM
Apples are pretty tasty with sauerkraut.  I rinse whatever kind I buy and throw the whole bag into my slow cooker, add a chopped onion and a chopped apple (firm/tart variety), a potato if I feel like it, pork ribs, top the whole thing with freshly ground pepper to taste. 

(If you are going for a sweeter taste, you can add about a quarter cup of apple cider and a bit of brown sugar....to me, this is too sweet, but when have taken this dish to pot luck I take two, one with cider and sugar, one without, and they go equally well.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: desdemona222b on March 31, 2008, 03:32:58 PM
I think that is called a cobbler.

Right.

This forum is interesting because there are so many here who are into German food.  I've never heard of half the things you guys mention.

My mother always boiled those nasty red weinies and heated up a can of sauerkraut - the stench was enough to make you never want to eat again.  She kept on serving me up a plate and calling me to dinner to about 16 years, and I never touched it once.  Stubborn.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 04:54:43 PM
Thanatopsy and Donotremove,

On the triglycerides, nytimes today. Journal Issues Warning on Two Cholesterol Drugs
http://tinyurl.com/2crwrr



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 05:14:34 PM
Above is probably why we limit the  pork to the less occasional but, during the winter months, preferring the Eastern European custom of chicken or duck with sauerkraut.  The sauerkraut soup is called Shchi, the further east you go into a cold climate, and is definitely different than the cabbage that goes into borscht, by producing a vegetable soup with just a little more zing than borscht which is almost entirely the flavor of beets and dill compounded with other vegetables including cabbage. Then,

if you haven't yet, you should Schaav. This is served cold in hot weather as the herb in the garden begins to go to seed and grows very rapidly adding segments and branching out in every direction; at which time it is best to pull out the plants, leaving only one or two to bag seeds. Otherwise, you have them spread everywhere in the garden crowding out other things that you want to grow.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on March 31, 2008, 05:36:35 PM
Maddie,

What is Schaav? Is it an herb? You don't mean dill do you?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 06:09:52 PM
harrie probably knows about this Sauerkraut soup,shchi.  To make two quarts, put two lbs of beef flank in deep kettle and cover with 2 quarts of water; add bay leaf, and 2 tablespoons each of minced dill and parsley.
            [Yikes! Hillary just flew low over the house.]

Bring to a boil. Simmer,covered, for one hour,skimming as needed. Add vegetables: 2 sliced carrots, 1 turnip diced, 2 celery stalks diced, 3 large potatoes  peeled and diced. Continue simmering for one more hour.

Rinse 1 and 1/2 lbs. sauerkraut with cold water; drain well.

Saute 2 onions, chopped, in  2 tablespoons hot bacon fat for 5 minutes.
Add sauerkraut. Cook slowly, covered, for 20 minutes. Add to soup. Mix  1 tablespoon flour in a little water until smooth and stir into soup.

Now, it says,  cook Polish sausage(kielbasa) or 4 frankfurters and cut into one inch pieces. Add to soup and simmer for 15 minutes. Skim off excess fat before serving. Garnish with additional minced parsley and dill, or dill alone. Serve with sour cream and plenty of rye bread on the side.

Yes, that's the part I forgot to mention about the Food fairs of early November when the Russians have carved up goose into thin slices on slices of dark rye, along with thinly sliced cucumber, or finely shredded cabbage, topped with sour cream as a special appetizer or Zakuski.

The soup above is seriously not Kosher, having both bacon fat, and sausages besides the flanken beef. I knew how the Russians made it but, the poet Ling Chung suggested we make it one late afternoon in winter, darkening fast , and she made it as a cabbage borscht, like a good buddhist without meat and like any Chinese  doused it with dark sesame-oil that gives any dish a slightly smoky taste with a silky texture. This could be added to sauerkraut version as well rather than meat.

However, the Hungarians of Hopewell, New Jersey who adopted Roumanian orphans, like to make a special dish of sauerkraut browned up with pieces of pork, onions and paprika, much garlic and keep it in the roasting pan as a warmer from which they can serve it hot as part of the Sunday Brunch at the Hopewell Inn along with a torte table full of poppy seed bakery and little sweets for your coffee. Whether or not they have continued the custom is another matter, since it has been eleven years since I left and have not had an opportunity to return.

Will look for schaav later, as we still have time before it grows; it has been five years or six years since I last grew any and  have to refresh my thoughts on how you ferment this.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on March 31, 2008, 06:18:09 PM
Shaav is sorrel.  Some grocers sell it fermented in small jars.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 06:33:25 PM
Maddie,

What is Schaav? Is it an herb? You don't mean dill do you?



It is sorrell. When  all prepared,it is chilled and served as a hot weather refreshing soup; or, drink, because although many Easter European and Jewish cook books have recipes  for when you get a spurt in temperature and the Spring seasonal plant suddenly bolts, I still think it is easier to experiment, when new to the idea, by opening a bottle from the Manischevitz groceries shelf at the supermarket.    

I had a friend named Ramon, very blond, whose mother came from the South of France but whose father was a big boned tall large Scandinavian, how they met, I have no idea?  One of his parents introduced him to the idea of Schav but that was too long ago for me to remember which one?  

He swore by it when working in really hot weather, to clear land, which he was obsessed with doing to an old migrant camp where the cherry and apple orchards blossom and eventually produce wine in the Door Peninsula where many Scandinavians settled north of Green Bay,Wisconsin.  

There is a fantastic tourist industry during the Summer months with people trying to keep cool by going North, where the wind blows constantly across the peninsula from one body of water to the other. Tourists come to ski in the winter but snowfall is enough to discourage much jaunting around to visit art galleries; it always was an art colony, however.

Nevertheless, he wanted a place where he could sell enough during the summer months of what he produced in the winter while keeping an eye on the  hot kilns. I think the idea was to have a place to laze about like vacation, pick up girls, while dancing at night, drink too much, wake up, drink Schaav to cure your hang-over, and maybe get to go boating every so often while some other potter minded the store. Perhaps he saw too many Ingmar Bergman films?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: MrUtley3 on March 31, 2008, 06:54:22 PM
Food Matters


Yes, it most certainly does.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on March 31, 2008, 09:14:45 PM
Quote
harrie probably knows about this Sauerkraut soup,shchi.


Not really.  The hubby's family does a lot of traditional Polish dishes (which shchi sounds like), but then sometimes they'll say "huh?" when I ask about something else.  Like bigos, a traditional Polish stew-like concoction; I asked if grandma had a recipe for that because I'd heard of it, and everyone kind of said "What the hell is that?"  Whereas I'd heard bigos was the Polish dish to know.  The soup sounds good; it's like how we make kielbasa & kraut.  We just don't put in the additional liquid, and eat it dry.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on March 31, 2008, 10:41:43 PM
Maddie,

What is Schaav? Is it an herb? You don't mean dill do you?



At this time or year, although tarragon has been around since about Thanksgiving and Christmas, sorrel/shaav will  begin to appear in the produce section, where they put those little plastic boxes filled with herb varieties; it will be closely followed by chervil which will suddenly disappear before the cuttings of  young sorrel leaves are finished.     

It has a distinctly acid, mouth puckering flavor.   Chervil on the other hand grows best with radishes in the cool or "parsley season" and will not last into the temperature rise when radishes eventually turn hot to the tastebuds. It does not keep well in a crumbled dry form but  that's life; it is a very seasonal thing.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on April 14, 2008, 04:22:44 PM
Okay so I just made the most fantastic sauerkraut soup. The boney frame of a roasted duck had been stashed in the freezer. So, time to make space, and simmer the duck under enough water to cover, with perhaps a whole small onion held with some cloves to keep the layers together, a  large round carrot pared and halved, a piece of celery about the same length  and lots of the chopped leaves,slowly and voila add a dollop of white wine, drier would be better, or dry red.

You can set this aside in the refrigerator until you plan to use it or, you can  at the same time cook some pearl barley in a separate pot and water according to the directions on the package. Regular barley takes much longer to cook than pearled barley. Since barley expands mightily during the time it will take for all your eventual soup to be eatten,over and done with, be judicious about the amount with which you begin.It will take no more that 15 minutes to cook; and will become more tender after added to the soup. A perforated ladle helps you drain it off a helping at a time of cooked pearl barley  added to your duck broth from which the bones have been removed (you find quite a few bits and pieces of duck meat that will blend into your soup. You will probably want to slice through the cooked carrot as well).

This is when you take the jar of sauerkraut from the refrigerator(oops, I almost said,"ice-box") and lift out forkfuls of just the amount you want to add to your soup. You see, this is really a trick to finish the sauerkraut that you opened for those "cold hot dogs" a couple of weeks ago. I sprinkle a little garlic powder, well, frankly more than a little but let's not go overboard until you get used to the taste on the sauerkraut.

And since most people are familiar with the barley soup known as Mushroom and barley, this is when you throw in a layer of precleaned sliced baby bella mushrooms and given them a twist or two of the black pepper grinder.  Did I say that I tossed in a small bay leaf when I made that Duck stock. (do me a favor, just make a notation to include that at the appropriate intersection )

When everything is nicely cooked, it is ready to ladle up with some of that lovely Panera caraway rye bread served on the side.

Next shall investigate Schav. And I have to find my recipe for gefulte fish and purchase the ingredients this week.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on April 30, 2008, 01:02:29 PM
Mr. Utley, funny how the guys always pop in here and make the same "food matters" joke.

Dig this....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/21/us/21meat.html



Title: Wine pairing
Post by: Lhoffman on May 13, 2008, 01:41:08 AM
Anyone know a good wine to pair with Pineapple Upside Down Cake?  Pineapple is a little tricky, but the brown sugar in the cake should balance that out.  I was thinking Chenin Blanc, but might there be a good sweet red or botrytis that would be better?

The rest of the food and wines are Italian but I don't think we necessarily need to match the wine for the dessert with the wine for the rest of the meal.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 13, 2008, 03:41:34 AM
I'd say Riesling.Bonny Doon makes a Pacific Rim Riesling that has a hint of pineapple.Or did as I haven't had any of late.Of course there are many German ones and it is the best wine made in the Finger Lakes.Some other west coast wine makers from Calif to Washington state produce it also.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: bosox18d on May 13, 2008, 03:47:02 AM
You might also look for a muscat(sp) but they aren't all that common in wine stores these days.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 13, 2008, 10:01:02 AM
I'm no wine expert, but I might look at a cava, Spanish sparkling wine, or its Californa counterpart.  IMO, it doesn't fight too much with food and is a nice light touch at the end of a meal.  Segua Viudas or Cristalino go for $8-$10 a bottle around here, or Frexenet might do in a pinch (a really, really tight pinch, I'd look for a California product before settling). 

Please tell us how your dinner came out, if you don't mind.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on May 13, 2008, 11:58:36 AM
What's the matter with coffee with the dessert?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 13, 2008, 02:02:10 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions.  I had not heard of cava, and I will definitely look into that.  The lightness sounds like just the thing after a heavy meal.  I love muscata, but it is hard to find.

Harrie, I will definitely tell you how the dinner comes out.  It is a wedding rehearsal, so I hope all is well.  It may be a few days before I get back to the forums though because I am looking after son's apartment and cat while they are away. 

Our menu is an Italian cheese board...cheeses still to be decided, homemade bread rolls, a salad of lettuces, cranberries, tomatoes, pinenuts and some sort of goat cheese which I haven't decided on yet, and roasted vegetable lasagne.  And they buy pineapple upside down cake from a Billy's Bakery which they tell me is better than homemade   :(

Donot....coffee always sounds good to me,  but they are keen on learning about food and wine pairing.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on May 13, 2008, 04:20:23 PM
best soft shells ever?  madame law and i had them sauteed last night at il riccio on 79th between lex and third.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 13, 2008, 08:11:27 PM
Law120b

I thought we had to wait until June, Law?  Very nice bunch at the Chinese grocery when the Chinese physicists were still at Princeton; some possibly still are? "Crabs in a barrel", anyone? A year ago at the Jersey Shore, my favourite seafood outlet and restaurant had gone the way of all flesh, taken over by youth and no more sauteed blue crab/softshell crab to be had on a bun as a sandwich.(with Tartar Sauce please and extra lemons).

They used to truck them down to the Chinese grocery from the Fulton Fish Market in those days. I was trying to recall the name of the place just the other day because of the splendor of already prepared food for students especially at Chinese New Year, and the Moon Cakes; but since then all these other supermarkets have come down into Jersey following the relocating Chinese suburbanites.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 15, 2008, 01:38:42 AM
What's the matter with coffee with the dessert?


Nothing. In fact, I'm discovering some new coffees from Italy. But before you get to coffee, somewhere during a meal at this time of year, before the grape-season causes the wine to respond in the bottles, my favorite wine is Saint Emilion and it goes well with the meals of this season


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 15, 2008, 11:25:50 AM

This is another warm to hot weather solution. Grigio is not one of my fave wines but I  think with the additional juice from the blood-oranges
that it is probably quite delicious.

http://www.countryhome.com/recipes/entertaining/fruitful_7.html?sssdmh=dm17.315190&esrc=nwch46


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 15, 2008, 11:29:12 AM
Remind me of  my "mother-of-the-groom experiences" sometime, only we're not there yet, traveling by train to California in June; or flying through  a Millennium....


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: law120b on May 15, 2008, 01:29:10 PM
i know it's may, but they've been on the menu twice in the last few weeks at 2 different places in our nabe.  go figure.  sure weren't holdover frozen from last year.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 15, 2008, 07:12:21 PM
What's the matter with coffee with the dessert?


Nothing. In fact, I'm discovering some new coffees from Italy. But before you get to coffee, somewhere during a meal at this time of year, before the grape-season causes the wine to respond in the bottles, my favorite wine is Saint Emilion and it goes well with the meals of this season

Yes...I had a chevel blanc from that region and it was quite good.  Don't remember the details, though, and I don't have my notebook at hand.  And Italian coffee would be wonderful. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 15, 2008, 10:37:52 PM
There's another I discovered in New Jersey from the same region,known as Entre deux mer; goes with fish. These are Atlantic wines. The one that you are referring to is from Chateau Cheval-Blanc.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: thanatopsy on May 17, 2008, 09:21:11 AM
Robert Mondavi, RIP


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iLeyD9cvLCrW_-aC3bDsk0jIv46QD90MVSP03


Great innovator and promoter. California's wines (like New York's wines) were largely watery concoctions that tasted like Cool Aid or some other stuff.  Mondavi made them into something that would enhance your dinner.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 17, 2008, 12:12:20 PM
thanatopsy,

Would you believe that a California produced Madeira is a favorite of mine. Paul Masson.  I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who used to import it, although I've never heard particular mention of French wines that he might have favored. I consider it the thinking woman' preference to sherry(which would preferably be dark not light), but, produced in the strange climate of the island off the Iberian peninsula somewhere closer to Africa.

When I lived close to your neck of the woods, it was the late afternoon choice as Autumn really began, with apples and cheese from Weyauwega,Wi.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on May 26, 2008, 09:36:45 PM
Please look for the asterisk* before you  begin!

Quite coincidentally having watched a tv program on "Sandwiches" in various parts of the United States, I am now a bit sorry that i didn't take notes until after the fact. I'm hoping they will do reruns, where ever I saw it on which ever channel.

Today, I made a muffaletta for MEMORIAL DAY (which I already knew how to make but having been reminded by seeing  a place in NEW Orleans which churns them out( at least three NOLA take-outs were shown, so it gets a mite confusing but where the ingredients were clearly visible on the back counter -- they did leave something to be desired. Basically it is a layered production of sliced meats and cheese, whatever else you like,but Creole types have insisted authenticity will depend on chopped olive salad with plenty of hot dried red pepper flakes
to top off the sandwich; and just to be sure, buy yourself some Tallarico Sauce in a jar.

That can be added to the layers, or -- served on the side for you to add as inspired while eating your muffaletta which they all admit is really of Sicilian origin and arrived with the first Italians who came to our shores starting with New Orleans. (NOLA already had "poor boys"; but Tallarico, just to be sure, nowadays sells their product in supermarkets around the country and clearly marked "Hoagie spread" although it is not even made around New Orleans!  I assumed that was the point of origin because I was first introduced to it by a friend whose father was from New Orleans but a friend who was rather obviously of British-descent-American as you could tell by all the little quirks like enjoying a drink of Pym's Cup.)

So, today when remembering friends where ever they may be (this one was last seen headed for Cape Cod), a toast, and I give you the muffaletta.

For which I started with a relatively small round loaf of plain bread. Having a two pronged fork helps considerably later on in the game when serving, because you start by cutting the round into three layers, the base being the thickest, the second layer close in thickness to the first, and the top cut leaving the smallest for the cap.

There are many variations that you can create. But French ham and Swiss cheese is not bad for a start, layering them as you like with a dab of dijon in there, now that the leaf lettuce is superbly grown and frilled and has that real fresh taste locally instead of the product shipped from coast to coast. You will probably like to spread the bottom side of the next layer of bread,the part that rests against that lettuce leaf, with some some special mayo like Vegenaise.

How about some sliced roast turkey, which the deli always informs you when you ask,"It's the kind that you get when you roast a turkey". And, it never is. You can give that some blue-cheese dressing anyway with that leaf lettuce, and perhaps you will want some sliced tomato before you add a layer of Muenster cheese.

You can, however, always save the Muenster for the topper served with the chopped Olives, a combo of pitted Kalamata black and pitted Gigante  Piquant(meaning these green olives have been sprinkled with red pepper flakes).   It helps to have a blender that chops the olives for you, in just a few seconds, rather than doing this by hand and trying to figure out how to remove the peppery residue from your hands.

***!
If you were very, very wise, you will have begun the construction on a very long sheet of plastic wrap,the clingy stuff, estimating how high the far side of the sandwich's plastic wrap must come up and over to reach the near side where you are, or vice-versa. In any case, do the best you can. Then lay out a second length of plastic wrap cross ways to cover the very possible openings left by the first wrap going over the top from back to front. You want to have this fairly snug. Then here is the artisan's touch, take your heavy enamel saute pan (Le Creuset  or Emile Henri) that just happens to be in reach and turn it upside down on the top of your round sandwich just to weight it down while you clean up.

Last you slip it into the refrigerator, sans heavy pan,and as you seldom have a large enough plastic zip bag on hand at such a time (any other time but for some reason we  have forgotten it would be neat to have for this production, haven't we?)so make down by placing his on a firm paper place at least that is large enough in diameter, when you  tuck this out of the way to chill and allow the flavors to somewhat blend. You won't want to wait as long as you thought you would like, to blend the savor of the muffaletta.  Cheers!    (if not, "Laisez fait les bon temps roulet")

As you know, this can be made in any flavor combo and size for as many happen to be on hand.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on May 27, 2008, 08:33:50 PM
For those who were helpful in my wine question:  The dinner went very well.   Instead of serving the salad as a separate course, we served it family style along side a roasted vegetable lasagne topped with a goat cheese.  The wines were Chianti (an easy choice....if a little predictable)  and an Argentinian Viogner which seemed counterintuitive, but it went quite well because it was dryer and lighter than the typical. 

Along with the pineapple upside cake, we had a white vignole.  It was quite nice with overtones of apricot and pineapple, not too sweet and a little on the dry side. 

We sort of nibbled at Italian cheeses throughout the evening, and all three wines complimented that quite nicely. 

But...on Sunday, we had a wonderful combination which I would recommend to anyone who loves spicy food and wine.  I sauted a habanero (a half or a quarter will do if you are not big on heat) in oil for about two minutes, then tossed in a can of chickpeas, sauted maybe three minutes more.  Added a bit of Mexican chili powder.  We had this with Gerwurtziminer....Yummy!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on May 28, 2008, 11:06:15 PM
Thanks for the report back.  It sounds like a good time was had by all.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on May 31, 2008, 11:04:10 AM
Mashed pinto bean sandwiches continue to provide adequate sustenance for the single lifestyle, provided that there is the occasional insertion of a slice of turkey ham.  Sliced tomatos are permissible but must be garden-grown.  Sprinkle garlic powder liberally, and avoid mayo.  Black beans may be substituted, but their skins may prove problematic vis-a-vis gaps in dentition, so prompt flossing is a wise post-prandial precaution.   

A slice of provolone will produce a more hearty sandwich-qua-meal, but do not squander time deciding if the final two syllables follow the example of "abalone" or "all alone."  It is Italian, so common sense suggests the final syllable is expressed.





Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2008, 02:31:38 AM
Barton

"Sliced tomatos are permissible but must be garden-grown."

Between "rains" this afternoon,bought some bright red appetizing tomatoes from my local farm stand, just after saying,"How are you?" to my local farmer, a young man who is in complete charge of growing  what his female relatives handle for sale at the family counter on a country road. They have a very large farm that I can approach from a couple of different angles, set on an old Amish farm among other things where they keep the grassfed cows and their new offspring of this season. With all the rain we have been having, cows like to sit in this tall grass on hot days; when they stand and are grazing, the grass covers their bellies.

Anyway, after the salutations and replies, he happened to mention these tomatoes were "Greenhouse Grown".  I didn't ask if he was experimenting, for the weather has been quite cool, too risky for putting out tomato plants, so he has held back but there are plants begun so early in the green house that they are bearing fruit.  I just chimed in, as I selected tomatoes for the girls to weigh, "I love Greenhouse tomatoes!" kind of exhuberantly, although I probably didn't have to add expecially from Canada where were we normally get our winter tomatoes, and peppers, and cucumbers.  The Canadian product is far better than buying peppers from Mexico, etc.  Otherwise,  I get my tomatoes from Lady Moon Farm.  These greenhouse tomatoes have a decent flavor which you are not to get when ordering salad in a local diner for instance; you know those pink things, no aroma, no taste, wrong texture.

At the price of produce today, I'm not going to shop for  many of my vegetables in what I call "a Republican supermarket".  On average, I have to make rounds going to specific places which have a particular vegetable of a better quality than the other supermarkets.  They all annoy me with their Ecuadorean snowpeas, a  vegetable that was once thriving as grown by Mennonites but then the weather changed and they bought what the government bought in quantity.

Yet the same store that comes up with nothing but plastic wrapped styrofoam trays of flat pea-pods from abroad costing transportation, will at the same time have the best young celery home grown on local farms.

The first run through of local asparagus homegrown has given way to the New Jersey product trucked across the state line --which is actually the Delaware River. It grows particularly well near the ocean.  I need it when I can't get those darned snowpeas which are good for your kidneys. Slightly bitter vegetables are the normal Spring produce recommended for centuries by the Chinese for their medicinal value.

The local Spring grown leaf lettuce, wavy that heads in a sort of fan-wedge shape has that solid crunch and taste that is between the extremes of bitter and sweet, much better for you that buying lettuce shipped from California. It goes on sandwiches such as you mentioned.

I'll tell you a secret about black beans, they were not really meant to be "vegetarian", as one thinks of mashed pinto bean sandwiches. Admit it, pinto beans, frijoles refritos, were always mashed in lard,garlic,cumino, coriander, etc.  Although the Chinese and Japanese, have their own favorites: Black, they become pastes of a different kind, including the salty sauces.  The best black bean dish used to be served at the Washington House restaurant in Manhattan, and it is a Puerto Rican dish carefully tended with some of the above flavors but started post-soaking in a pot with smoked hocks( and sometimes some beef but I've forgotten the exact cut, it would be something with a bone however and I've been refraining from that for awhile). When hocks are cooked slowly with some peeled cooking onion into which you stick cloves, just one or two to an onion and simmer this, once the beans reach the tender stage, you add a dollop of sherry. That's the secret.   It is served like a soup in a flat bowl over some rice; very similar to the New Orleans tradition of red beans over rice, with some side meat (on the side or how to be redundant). These protein dishes were necessary in a hot climate, using cheaper cuts of meat sparingly in relatively small amounts.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2008, 02:37:24 AM
Ps. these are the dishes of rainy days, just on the verge of heat arriving with fulsome humidity, so while it feels a bit chill and damp, you start a dish like this when you  have to stay in reading, or when you would rather not be out and about  shopping too long.  You can always munch on a cup or glass filled with, or jar of: fresh carrot sticks for vitamins while cooking your beans and rice.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 01, 2008, 05:48:58 AM
Drat Maddy.  I'm reading your post at 4:30 in the wee hours and you've made me want to go out to the kitchen and sling some pots and pans. It's 78° here right now and probably will not go more than one or two degrees lower before daylight.  Near 100° afternoons from now on I'll wager.  But with airconditioning, hey!, I can still cook whatever seems good.

I forget the brand, but I let those canning folks do my refried beans.  I open both ends of the can and push the beans out into a storage container.  Then I just spead the beans onto whatever--usually flour tortillas--and nuke just a tad.  Then add cheese(s) of your choice, finely shredded lettuce and onion, chopped tomato and salsa.  Roll up and hold over when you bite into it so's you don't get stuff all down the front of your shirt.

A can of refried beans doesn't last me very long.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 01, 2008, 07:01:14 AM
DNR,

We are not yet to your temps. It only went to 70 last night, and will go to ninety today. We have little green tomatoes on the earliest plants we started. I still have to get potting soil to plant some of the tomatoes and the peppers. We decided to go with containers this year after last year's drought that we got only two tomatoes and no peppers from. But, as you expect, we are having a decently rainy spring at least, so they could have gone in the ground.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 01, 2008, 12:44:20 PM
Madupont, sad to say, The Washington House is no longer operating.  It closed only a few months ago.  The food was good...and they also delivered.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 01, 2008, 12:46:20 PM
Drat Maddy.  I'm reading your post at 4:30 in the wee hours and you've made me want to go out to the kitchen and sling some pots and pans. It's 78° here right now and probably will not go more than one or two degrees lower before daylight.  Near 100° afternoons from now on I'll wager.  But with airconditioning, hey!, I can still cook whatever seems good.

I forget the brand, but I let those canning folks do my refried beans.  I open both ends of the can and push the beans out into a storage container.  Then I just spead the beans onto whatever--usually flour tortillas--and nuke just a tad.  Then add cheese(s) of your choice, finely shredded lettuce and onion, chopped tomato and salsa.  Roll up and hold over when you bite into it so's you don't get stuff all down the front of your shirt.

A can of refried beans doesn't last me very long.

I know what I'm having for lunch today....yumm.  I mix the beans with hot salsa, then microwave.  Spread it onto tortillas or flatbread, depending on which I have in the house.  Or I put the beans on tortillas or flatbread and top with red peppers when I feel like less heat....a rare occurrence.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2008, 12:54:09 PM
Sorry. But today I have to deal with Falafel and Hummus and Naan, before I lose the knack.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 01, 2008, 12:57:08 PM
Sorry. But today I have to deal with Falafel and Hummus and Naan, before I lose the knack.

Sounds yummy too...I have quite good memories of making falafel with my son....the first time we tried, it was a spectacular mess.  Although, I don't make my own hummus because I live near two Arabic communities who have the formula down pat.  And when I am very lucky, my Lebanse student brings me some that she has made.  (Her recipe is quite delicious.  She adds hot chili peppers.)


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 01, 2008, 01:38:08 PM
weezo,

There are more than several Washington House Restaurants, I stuck the recipe slip cut-out of a Sunday newspaper (as recommended by James Beard)into one of my cookbooks and no longer recall where it is.

There is another than the NYC, out here in Pennsylvania around Bucks county that is supposed to be famous for historic reasons, quite different than culinary. Which is something you have to keep in mind in Pennsylvania.

Then suddenly it occurred to me that I usually overlook another factor, when I would go to visit my sister, I would stay at The Washington House; until she moved about a year ago. 

I had described to you in some detail the picturesque quality of Cedarburg as "a mill-town" comparable to those of New Jersey or Massachusetts, so forthwith --although there is another Washington House in West Virginia--
I thought you should see these pictures of what I had been talking about in terms of early working conditions in the mid-19th.century. Those are the mills over the waterfall.(where there used to be a nice restaurant called, Barth's at the Bridge. But times have changed as they inevitably do.)

http://www.washingtonhouseinn.com/cedarburg.html


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 01, 2008, 01:44:25 PM
LOL...Madupont I don't believe Anne addressed your comment on Washington House...and the one you referred to in your earlier post  closed in March of this year.  There may be many Washinton Houses, but the one you cited in Manhattan was not part of a chain and the recipe you referred to was unique to that Washington House.

It would be far easier to put me on ignore than to pretend that you have.  That way you will not inadvertently confuse my posts with those of others and you won't feel obligated to comment on them while pretending not to.  LOL.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 01, 2008, 05:37:59 PM
Laurie,

I was doing a "huh?" at the Washington House post. I don't think I've ever been to a Washington House and don't know where they are.

Maddie, You may want to stop putting people on ignore, if you are going to reply to them anyway. Laurie is really a nice lady, and I do not understand why you two are like oil and water.



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Donotremove on June 01, 2008, 05:56:44 PM
When you click on Lhoffman's name it shows that zero people are ignoring her. I think that Maddy's post to Weezo was a mistake, that she thought it had been Weezo but it had really been Lhoffman.  I've done this a few times myself (mistakenly attributed a poster.)  No one else has?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 01, 2008, 06:05:26 PM
True enough Donotremove....just last week I confused MrUtley for Yankguy.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 01, 2008, 07:46:45 PM
Anne..nice lady..thanks.  In my alternate life, I'm a hit man for the mob.  And days when business is slow, I pick up a few bucks auditing for the IRS  :D

So what do you do when you're not writing or preparing for the next project?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: weezo on June 01, 2008, 10:43:53 PM
Sleep .....

occasionally I load some dishes in the dishwasher and run it, or clothes in the washer and dryer and pile them up to fold and put away when I'm waiting for something to download. I live a boring life.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2008, 01:09:40 AM
The Washington House reference that I made in an earlier post was a topic discussed in American History forum in which I told weezo about the mills at Cedarburg where my sister was living; I just realized when talking about the recipe that goes back a-ways( that there was a coincidence in the names of the establishments )because I think that I first tried it out in the second half of the 1960s.

When I get time, I can peruse the James Beard cookbooks to see if it pops up to compare with the directions that I gave the other night for slow cooking, and the inclusion of sherry.

The Washington House in Cedarburg is however last I saw of it, far less glitzy, and my sister rushed over before work in the morning (she did interior decor at the time with trips into Indiana and Ohio for "pieces"), to join me for brunch to which  TWH pretty much confined itself but it was excellent.  It is a stop over for business travelers coming up from Chicago on their routes and they are unused to the largess of "country cooking" in Wisconsin. Once they discover it, they keep on stopping for more.

The recipe from the New York restaurant was brought up in a post addressed to Barton. Although Lhoffman commented about the restaurant being closed, the subject changed at that point. When I remembered that there was a coincidental name, it's not odd to mention that to weezo as she had occasionally traveled there as well, going up a little further north to Sheboygan, traveling with her mother.

I just find all this fault finding really rude, it seems to happen in out of the way corners, like jumping somebody in the cloak room, at off times at that when I'm responding to a post that somebody will pick up later. In this case it was tomatoes (and beans!) with Barton.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 03, 2008, 01:22:30 AM
madupont      re:AMERICAN HISTORY
               Reply #2196 on: March 26, 2008,

Quote from weezo.

Other discussant were Dzimas, and caclark


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 03, 2008, 02:05:27 AM
LOL....Madupont.  I find your behavior every bit as entertaining as when I observe Middle School girls acting this way.  It is quite common for girls in this age group to pretend to ignore individuals they dislike while responding to them through a third party.  And when you call them on it, their response is the same as yours....The "who me" big eyed innocent act. sometimes accompanied by righteous indignation, other times accompanied by tears.  Some Middle Schoolers are quite good at it.  You lack finesse, but are still quite entertaining....perhaps if you were to spend some time hanging around a school yard you could see how it's done correctly. 

Quote all the old posts you like, I told you that the restaurant you mentioned had closed and your next remark on the subject was that there are SEVERAL establishments that go by that name....pretty clear you were commenting to me. 



Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 07, 2008, 01:52:21 PM
It has been my experience which is a long life-time's worth, when somebody disbelieves what I am saying and makes this so obvious that they lack trust which is necessary to mutual communication, it usually indicates that I have been dealing with an untrustworthy person;but I noticed that already in discussing "recipes" (besides,you make things up about other people's reputation and then incessantly repeat these falsehoods which in legal terms is calumny; you apparently miss the connections in your reading of a post and then blame the other person, in so egregious a manner as to be insulting, publicly demeaning, for which you never apologize because you are always right no matter how many of your senses derived the wrong impression of what has been said/written, and mistake what is taking place and that you then insist is your reality. You resort to conduct which is really petty. Not that you merely doubt the small stuff,but you doubt what everybody else can check out for themselves; you take nothing in good faith, and it is almost always petty stuff.  It's an idea fixee.

It leaves a sense that you are afraid of being caught out in some kind of  hypocrisy.

After 13 months of this conduct without let up, I take the suggestion of a friend addressing another poster in another context; I am putting you on ignore. Over a year is quite enough in trying to get along with you and your continual attacks upon my character.

You apparently did not bother to check the post that was proof that I had discussed this matter with weezo previously. There was no reason to address you about the matter, since I was one who posted the recipe, obviously I already knew that it was from the Washington House back in another era when I began cooking it.  I was not ignoring you, I was addressing weezo about the coincidence. You are very competitive but why you think that I have to address you in order to discuss something with weezo is quite odd. You take it as being ignored. The only correction for that misconception of reality is to ignore  you and make it clear to everyone that's what I am doing.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 07, 2008, 02:52:42 PM
Recipes?  LOL....but as to distrust.  The real root of your issue with me is that for years you implied that you attended Princeton rather than just hung around there as a wanna-be.  You have been peeved since I forced you to explain your position.  And then there was your blatant plagiarism which I posted along with the original source. 

So do I distrust your word?  You bet.  I tend to distrust the word of those who have been proven to be liars. 

As to small-mindedness or petty stuff, I have to judge people on this forum by the words they use to express themselves.  When those words are plagiarized or outright lies....well draw your own conclusion about the level of my pettiness.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 11, 2008, 02:32:03 PM
Verrry nice recipe from Sunday's New York Times Magazine.  Not too difficult to put together.  The taste is reminiscent of a good bread pudding.  The texture is quite dense and moist. 


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/magazine/08Food_recipe1.html?ref=magazine


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 11, 2008, 02:33:57 PM
Here's the article that came along.  That rhubarb looks quite tasty as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/magazine/08Food-t.html?ref=magazine


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 15, 2008, 05:36:05 PM
Spicy Veggie Stir Fry

When you want a healthy meal that doesn't compromise on flavor—here's your dish. This vegetarian recipe calls for chicken substitute, but you can use real chicken if you want. Bake or grill real chicken before adding it to the recipe. Servings: 4

Here's what you need...

3 cups hot cooked instant rice (cooked as directed on the package, omitting margarine and salt) [I usually prefer old-fashioned honest rice]
1 cup water
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 tablespoon cornstarch
½ teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
1 teaspoon oil
¼ cup chopped onion
1 medium green bell pepper, cut into thin strips
2 tablespoons water
3 medium zucchini, halved lengthwise, thinly sliced
4 frozen breaded chicken substitute patties, thawed, cut into bit-sized pieces
3 tomatoes cut into thin wedges.
While rice is cooking, in small bow, combine 1 cup water, soy sauce, cornstarch and red pepper flakes; blend well. Set aside.
Heat oil in large nonstick skillet or wok over medium heat until hot. Add onion and bell pepper; cook 3 to 4 minutes or until onion is tender. Add 2 tablespoons water and zucchini; cover and cook until all vegetables are tender.
Add chicken substitute pieces and tomatoes; cook until thoroughly heated. Stir cornstarch mixture; added to skillet. Cook and stir until thickened. Serve mixture over rice.
Nutritional Analysis: One serving equals: 380 calories, 10g fat, 54g carbohydrate, 6g fiber, and 13g protein


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 15, 2008, 06:04:11 PM
Recipes?  LOL....but as to distrust.  The real root of your issue with me is that for years you implied that you attended Princeton rather than just hung around there as a wanna-be.  You have been peeved since I forced you to explain your position.   And then there was your blatant plagiarism which I posted along with the original source. 

So do I distrust your word?  You bet.  I tend to distrust the word of those who have been proven to be liars. 

As to small-mindedness or petty stuff, I have to judge people on this forum by the words they use to express themselves.  When those words are plagiarized or outright lies....well draw your own conclusion about the level of my pettiness.


Why should I have to be: "I forced you to explain your position." quote from above. You have been skating on thin ice titled "Calumny" for some time.

I lived in Princeton from 1987 until 1997; it was where the Curator of Rare Books and Manuscripts lived, who had sent me interlibrary loans from there while I studied in the 1970s.  It's on record there as a matter of course. Nothing "implied" about it.

As to,"blatant plagiarism which I posted along with the original source.", you are referring to Elaine Pagels of Princeton Theological Seminary; why don't you contact her and ask her if quoting the entry in her name at wikipedia.org is plagiarism.   As I recall, we discussed her book at the nytimes.forum far in advance of your ever being available to discuss anything of the kind. 

By the way, what ever gave you the idea that Princeton is the kind of place where you just hang out and wanna-be?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 15, 2008, 07:35:03 PM
Spicy Veggie Stir Fry

When you want a healthy meal that doesn't compromise on flavor—here's your dish. This vegetarian recipe calls for chicken substitute, but you can use real chicken if you want. Bake or grill real chicken before adding it to the recipe. Servings: 4

Here's what you need...

3 cups hot cooked instant rice (cooked as directed on the package, omitting margarine and salt) [I usually prefer old-fashioned honest rice]
1 cup water
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 tablespoon cornstarch
½ teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
1 teaspoon oil
¼ cup chopped onion
1 medium green bell pepper, cut into thin strips
2 tablespoons water
3 medium zucchini, halved lengthwise, thinly sliced
4 frozen breaded chicken substitute patties, thawed, cut into bit-sized pieces
3 tomatoes cut into thin wedges.
While rice is cooking, in small bow, combine 1 cup water, soy sauce, cornstarch and red pepper flakes; blend well. Set aside.
Heat oil in large nonstick skillet or wok over medium heat until hot. Add onion and bell pepper; cook 3 to 4 minutes or until onion is tender. Add 2 tablespoons water and zucchini; cover and cook until all vegetables are tender.
Add chicken substitute pieces and tomatoes; cook until thoroughly heated. Stir cornstarch mixture; added to skillet. Cook and stir until thickened. Serve mixture over rice.
Nutritional Analysis: One serving equals: 380 calories, 10g fat, 54g carbohydrate, 6g fiber, and 13g protein


You could cut the fat in that if you were to substitute two chicken breasts for those four breaded patties. 

I used to add water and corn starch to my stir fry, but I've found that when you add the thickener and water and wait for it to set, that the veggies get a bit soggier than I like.  Lately I've taken to stir frying the meat and seasoning it with soy or whatever sauce I will be using, then remove the chicken from the wok and stir fry or steam the vegetables until tender crisp.  Add back the chicken and any seasonings that get hotter as they cook...red pepper flakes or chilies, things in the curry family.  Taste and add whatever seasoning might be lacking...more sauce, etc. 

Serve over rice, or you may sometimes prefer to serve it over a thin spagetti, capellini, angel hair.  If you serve it with pasta, simply toss the cooked pasta with the meat and veggies in your wok before serving. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 15, 2008, 10:53:14 PM
[You could cut the fat in that if you were to substitute two chicken breasts for those four breaded patties. 

The chicken substitute patties (at least Morningstar) are listed at 6g fat each, which doesn't seem crazy bad to me.  If one is inclined to use fake chicken, I'm guessing maybe one doesn't want to eat actual chicken; in which case the 6g fat per patty seems like a reasonable trade-off.  There are un-breaded chicken TVP products out there -- Quorn, I think, makes one -- but it can be difficult to find.

I made a real chicken in a slow cooker today -- rub the chicken with some spices, put some onion in the bottom of the pot, throw a (small) whole chicken in and let 'er rip.  The chicken will make its own juices as it cooks, with which you can make gravy if you like. It came out very yummy, and not a bit dry as it's basically being braised. Today was a long day so it overcooked, and the worst thing that happened was the chicken came out in pieces rather than whole, which didn't matter a whole lot to us.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 15, 2008, 11:11:27 PM
6 grams of fat is a lot less than I would have thought...even for a vegetarian patty.  When I've looked at Chicken patties, the lowest I've seen contains 9 grams.  I've ended up making my own, not because I can get that much lower in fat, but because I can make them a little lower in fat and quite a bit lower in sodium.   Also I tend to like cooking with whole products and when you make your own, you can tinker with the seasonings.   

What are chicken TVP products? 

Your slow cooked chicken sounds good.   When I make slow cooker chicken, I tend to put the veg on top.  Do you think there is any advantage in putting the onion on the bottom?  or is this something you do because you have always done?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: harrie on June 15, 2008, 11:46:07 PM
6 grams of fat is a lot less than I would have thought...even for a vegetarian patty.  When I've looked at Chicken patties, the lowest I've seen contains 9 grams.  I've ended up making my own, not because I can get that much lower in fat, but because I can make them a little lower in fat and quite a bit lower in sodium.   Also I tend to like cooking with whole products and when you make your own, you can tinker with the seasonings.   

What are chicken TVP products? 

Your slow cooked chicken sounds good.   When I make slow cooker chicken, I tend to put the veg on top.  Do you think there is any advantage in putting the onion on the bottom?  or is this something you do because you have always done?

I should have said "chicken" TVP products -- TVP = Textured Vegetable Protein (which you may already know) and it can be formed into many meat-substitute forms.  Gardenburger, Morningstar and Quorn make various fake meat products -- here's the Quorn website: http://www.quorn.us//cmpage.aspx?section=OurRange    (My apologies if you already know this stuff, and never mind.) 

Here's the Morningstar nutrition info -- http://tinyurl.com/6y8l2e      The Quorn non-breaded patty is a lot lower, at 2.5g fat per serving.  What's a serving?  I'd guess a cutlet, but you never know.

Thanks on the slow cooker chicken.  I put the onion on the bottom because the recipe said to -- it's the first time I made this, and I generally follow directions the first time around.  Here's the recipe I used -- http://www.recipezaar.com/33671 -- very basic. Didn't use garlic powder or onion powder, minced up some of each and made a paste-y rub.  Cut the salt in half or quarter, too.  Served it with cold beets on the side.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: Lhoffman on June 16, 2008, 12:38:01 AM
Thanks for the link.  I never realized they were called Textured Vegetable Protein.  I do occasionally eat the Morningstar Buffalo Wings.  They have a fairly mild bite of cayenne.

I can see why you reduced the salt.  I thought at first that the amount was an error, but when you look at the sodium on the nutritional analysis, the count is 2554mg which has to be near or above the RDA.   Aside from that, the recipe looks quite lovely.   I have tried the suggestion in the intro....stuff a quartered lemon into the chicken.  It doesn't give quite as much of a lemon flavor as you would imagine, but it makes the chicken quite tender. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: barton on June 17, 2008, 10:13:40 AM
Thanks for a vegetarian idea, Madupont.  Those fake meat patties are not really all that tasty  -- one could substitute black beans or pintos for the faux-meat, huh?


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 21, 2008, 03:53:01 PM
Barton,

Yes, black beans are good protein content and used in China to make hoisin sauce added to vegetable dishes as well as meat recipes, Their black bean, the Turtle Bean is a little different than the Cuban variety.

Also in China, the red bean is smaller than the American version, almost as small as the mung bean sprout "seed" used for sprouting. They came up with a phenomenal lunch package back in the early 10th.century when Chinese monks went to Japan and  gave Japan literacy(the Japanese had no written language prior to becoming familiarized with written Chinese characters). Monks, spreading Buddhism to Japan, used to take red bean paste, seasoned with shoyu sauce to salt it and with oil and spices, which was then rolled into a ball and while tacky enough to pick up sticky white rice was rolled in the rice. Believe it or not, they carried these in their long sleeves, for lunch!


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: madupont on June 21, 2008, 04:10:32 PM
Thanks for a vegetarian idea, Madupont.  Those fake meat patties are not really all that tasty  -- one could substitute black beans or pintos for the faux-meat, huh?


Ps. I know. Several weeks ago, I mistakenly thought I ought to try Bell & Evans chicken pressed patties, or perhaps better to say pressed chicken patties otherwise it sounds like the chicken sat on them.

I regularly buy Bell & Evans chickens from Fredericksburg, Pa. Have for years when they were brought to market in Trenton,New Jersey at the Farmers Circle, because they were the cleanest best tasting chickens ever. Now they are rarely found in the area from which they originate, and it is almost a two hour drive to go up to Fredburg and back to buy poultry in the shop at the processing plant.  But I am able to find parts and occasionally a whole chicken right in my nearby neighborhood, so I throw them into the freezer to have on hand for different recipes.   

And I'm able to alternate with Harvest Time whose packages are individually marked to identify the farms on which the chicken in the package was produced. They also have a good flavor, as an organic chicken, but higher priced for the cutting of breast into tenders so that you seldom see the regular breast that is simpler to prepare for summertime dishes.

Anyway, I saw the familar colorful box of Bell& Evans chicken patties in the freezer where it was winking at me before I got out of the store.  They sell tons of various prepared B&E frozen specialities in Princeton which I left eleven years ago but I did go back a year ago to my optometrist to provide what I needed in "Shades" which were not available here. So I stopped in at the local Princeton McCaffery which we were once glad to have in Princeton when it first arrived but now I wondered about how far it had gone down hill since I'd last seen it. My favorite Italian butcher was no longer there either so there really was no point in being concerned but I did notice the frozen food was well supplied to that market rather than back in Pennsylvania.

I think I was making some kind of zesty patty sandwich on a bun, with the works, it was a total disappointment of  compression tasting like nothing, at least nothing like chicken, and had a texture like plastic when pan fried. Better to stick with regular chicken in summer, after learning the facts from a table point of view that not all is gustatory about the process of providing chicken done everyway.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on October 31, 2017, 10:17:16 PM
Here is a recipe from the Star Wars newsletter, it looks pretty good so I thought that I would share it here.

FOR THE JEDI IT IS TIME TO EAT

As the colder months approach now is the perfect time to whip up something yummy befitting of a Jedi Master. Here's a tasty interpretation of "Yoda's Incredible Herb Stew" -- originally prepared exclusively for National Public Radio by noted gourmet chef and author, Craig Claiborne.

This recipe goes waaay back to 1983, when NPR debuted a new 10-part radio drama based on The Empire Strikes Back. Craig Claiborne was invited to create his own tasty version of "rootleaf," a succulent dish featured in both the film and radio versions. If you remember, "rootleaf" was prepared for Luke Skywalker by Yoda, the ancient Jedi Master.

We believe you'll find the following recipe a perfect food idea for eight hungry young Jedi. Kids should have adult supervision and assistance when making this meal.

3 pounds lean lamb or other meat
Salt to taste, if desired
Freshly ground pepper to taste
6 tablespoons light vegetable or other oil
6 cups finely chopped parsley
3 cups thinly sliced onions
1 tablespoon finely chopped garlic
2 teaspoons ground coriander
2 teaspoons ground cumin
1 teaspoon ground turmeric
2 tablespoons finely minced ginger root
1 teaspoon finely chopped seeded hot green or red chilies
1/4 teaspoon ground cardamon
1/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/4 teaspoon ground cloves
1 bay leaf
3 pounds fresh spinach, well rinsed and tough stems removed.

INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Cut the meat into one inch cubes, and add salt and pepper to taste.

2. Heat half the oil in a heavy skillet and add the meat, turning to brown the pieces on all sides.

3. Heat the remaining oil in a Dutch oven or heavy casserole and add parsley, onions and garlic. Cook, stirring often until the onions are wilted. Add the meat, coriander, cumin, turmeric, ginger root, chilies, cardamon, cinnamon, cloves, bay leaf, and salt and pepper to taste. Stir.

4. Add water to cover, bring to boil and cover tightly. Let simmer about 2 to 2 1/2 hours until the meat is quite tender.

5. Meanwhile, drop the spinach into a kettle of boiling water with salt to taste and let simmer about five minutes. Drain well and run under cold water. Drain thoroughly.

6. Squeeze the spinach to remove all excess liquid. Place the spinach on a chopping block and chop coarsely.

7. Add the spinach to the stew and stir. Let simmer together about five minutes.

Yield: Eight servings.

----

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on November 29, 2017, 07:15:45 PM
Usually I buy the cheapest turkey bologna sandwich meat at the market, but if you spend just three dollars more then you can get the really good smoked turkey breast. So, I spent three dollars more and bought the good stuff. I also bought fresh baked bread from the market, it is so great. I also have a fresh onion, and romaine lettuce, and the good kind of mustard that is like the kind you get at the fair, the classic Springfield yellow mustard. 

I love good sandwiches, and for a couple dollars extra you can make really good sandwiches, it is worth it to spend a little more money for the good ingredients.

And the sandwiches are really good with ice cold beer, or with a nice wine.

Salute,

Tony V. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 01, 2017, 09:27:33 PM
I just saw on the television news that fish is good for your eyes, and they said that cheese is healthy, so you need to eat fish tacos with cheese and salsa with guacamole, and it is a healthy meal. And you can feed your whole neighborhood on one day of deep sea fishing for fish such as Mahi Mahi, for fish tacos for everyone. We threw parties with fish tacos here...

Here is a video of a song that my friend Jon's band did here at my apartment complex for the mahi mahi taco party....

Never Too Late
By NASTY HABITS

http://youtu.be/x4K7dnixw5I


Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 10, 2017, 07:14:47 PM
The best food to eat if you feel a cold coming on, is spicy Thai soup, it is awesome. 

I have a nice local delivery service for Thai food here in Anaheim, they have great food.

Link...

http://youandithai.com/

That is a great thing about Anaheim, is that you can find a wide variety of foods. You can even find sushi at midnight.

Salute,

Tony V. 


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 10, 2017, 07:58:10 PM
We have a place right down the street from where I live where you can buy tacos at three o'clock in the morning, they are open 24 hours per day, and they have real authentic Mexican food. Anaheim has a great variety of great foods.

Link...

http://www.taqueriasguadalajara.com/

Salute

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 10, 2017, 11:16:09 PM
The Teppanyaki Grill Supreme Buffet in Anaheim is awesome...

https://www.yelp.com/biz/teppanyaki-grill-supreme-buffet-anaheim

They have great food, including all you can eat sushi.

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 31, 2017, 12:35:40 AM
I guess Monroe's restaurant in Malibu is now the Sunset restaurant...

http://www.thesunsetrestaurant.com/

Monroe's was named after Marilyn Monroe, and it was the best restaurant in Malibu. Their fillet mignon was the best. I used to sit there and eat fillet mignon and watch the sunset and drink Coronas.

I will have to try the new one.

----------
The Paradise Cove Beach Cafe in Malibu is now owned by someone named Bob Morris...

http://www.paradisecovemalibu.com/

-----------

Spruzzo in Malibu has good Lasagna, and you can eat on the patio overlooking the ocean, and they serve Peroni beer. 

https://www.spruzzomalibu.com/

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 31, 2017, 02:56:37 AM
If frog legs, escargot, and caviar, are on your bucket list, then you need to go to the White House Restaurant in Anaheim when they reopen, the place burned, but Chef Bruno is rebuilding. Chef Bruno does a lot of charity work, and he feeds hungry children who live in motels, etc. 

http://www.anaheimwhitehouse.com/

They have fillet mignon too.

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on December 31, 2017, 05:24:18 PM
The local market here, The Northgate Gonzalez Market, sells cactus to eat, and lots of people here eat it. And the really great part is that they make candy out of the cactus, how cool is that? The children get candy from the cactus, and the adults love it too.

People who are starving can eat cactus, and it is great with scrambled eggs. People in starving nations will love cactus, and the children will love the cactus candy. Eating cactus is way better than starving, many people here love it.

Here is a recipe for cactus with scrambled eggs...

http://www.bhg.com/recipe/eggs/scrambled-eggs-with-cactus/

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on January 01, 2018, 08:05:13 PM
When I make chicken fajitas burritos...
 
My ingredients are...
 
marinated chicken fajitas
onions
bell peppers
olives
cilantro
 
I cook the ingredients in a wok.
 
Then I use large flour tortillas, and I add these ingredients on the burritos...
 
cheese
sour cream
guacamole
salsa
 
Sometimes I add shrimp, and sometimes I add refried beans. If I am feeding a large group of people then I can add the refried beans as a cheap filler to make more burritos. I could also add Mexican rice.
 
I go to a Mexican market, Northgate, which has the marinated chicken fajitas all ready, I just go to the counter and ask for it. If you want to make and marinate your own chicken fajitas, here is a recipe...
 
INGREDIENTS for Marinated Chicken Fajitas
 
1/4 cup fresh lime juice
1/4 cup tequila
4 cloves garlic, peeled and smashed
2 tablespoons roughly chopped cilantro leaves
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 teaspoons Worcestershire sauce
1 teaspoon dried crushed Mexican oregano
1 teaspoon red pepper flakes
1 teaspoon ground cumin
1 teaspoon ground coriander
2 pounds diced chicken breast
2 teaspoons salt
 
In a bowl, whisk together the lime juice, tequila, garlic, cilantro, 1 tablespoon of the oil, the Worcestershire sauce, oregano, pepper flakes, cumin and coriander. Pour into a large zip-lock bag, add the diced chicken, and seal. Place in a baking dish and refrigerate for at least 12 and up to 24 hours, turning occasionally.
 
You can also make your own salsa and guacamole, but the Mexican market that I go to has all of that already made.
 
Salute,
 
Tony V


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on January 01, 2018, 08:28:29 PM
Here are some good recipes for Mexican food...

----

Rosita's Style Carne Asada Recipe:


10 Bottom Round Steaks (you can use any type of steak you like)

Cumin

Black peppercorns

A pinch of oregano

Kosher salt to taste

3 bay leaves

Minced garlic

Fresh cilantro leaves

2 tablespoons of olive oil

A tablespoon of lime juice

One 12 oz can of beer

Mix all ingredients. Place steaks in a ziploc bag, and pour ingredients over steaks. Place bag in fridge and marinate for 3/4/5/etc. hours. The longer you leave it in fridge, the better.

Good to cook on the grill and slice for tacos. May serve with pico de gallo, and guacamole. And Mexican rice.

--------

Fresh Raw Salsa:

Rome tomatoes

Onion

Garlic

Jalapenos

Cilantro

About a teaspoon of lime juice and olive oil

Salt & pepper to taste

Chop all veggies and mix with the rest of ingredients.

Fresh Cooked Salsa:

Same ingredients as above:

Boil all veggies (except cilantro) until tender. Place in food presesor to make either runny salsa, or chunky. Add liquid from pan if you want it runny. Add the rest of ingredients to food processor.

----------

Semi-creamy Guacamole

2 large ripe avocados

1 small onion, chopped

1 medium tomato, chopped

1 fresh chile jalapeno or serrano, seeded and finely chopped

1 tbsp cilantro, chopped

1 tsp of lime juice

Salt to taste

Cut avocados in halve, get rid of seed and scoop out of shell with a spoon
into a bowl. Mash with a fork. Add remaining ingredients, and mix together.

It is best to prepare this shortly before serving. If you need to store
longer add extra lime juice however it will make the guacamole a bit more
tart.

Chunky Guacamole

2 ripe avocados, chopped

1 small onion, chopped

1 chile jalapeno or serrano

Cilantro, chopped

Salt to taste

In a medium mixing bowl combine avocados, onion, jalapeno [or serrano]. Stir
until well combined. Add salt just before served. Put avocado pit in
guacamole to prevent browning.

Easy Guacamole

2 ripe avocados, chopped or mashed

1/4 cup of your favorite salsa or hot sauce, homemade or store bought

Salt to taste

Place all ingredients in a medium bowl and mix together. Just before
serving, add salt.

Since this recipe does not have lime juice to prevent it from browning, it
is best to prepare shortly before serving.

For creamy guacamole, use a food processor with any of the three recipes.

---------------

Bacon Wrapped Stuffed Jalapeno Peppers


12 -24 large jalapeno peppers (as large as possible)
16 ounces cream cheese, room temp. (2 packages Philadelphia works best)
4 large garlic cloves, minced
1/4 cup finely chopped sun-dried tomato
2 tablespoons finely chopped fresh cilantro
1/2 teaspoon coarse sea salt (to taste)
1 lb bacon
toothpicks, soaked for about 15 minutes in water

1. Mix cream cheese, garlic, sundried tomatoes, cilantro and salt until well blended. You can now set the mixture aside or even freeze for up to a couple of months in a freezer bag.

2. You'll want to wear some kitchen gloves for this step! Slice the jalapeños lengthwise, being careful not to slice them in half. Then slice at the top along the width of the pepper just about a quarter inch below the base of the stem until you cut through the core, again being careful not to cut completely through the pepper (This step will probably take some practice). Now you need to decide whether you want to keep the seed webbing for those that like it really hot, or remove them for a lot less heat. I like to do about half and half so that you can please everyone. Anyway, if removing the seeds, gently remove the core using a paring knife by spreading the pepper carefully, you may need to shake some of the remaining seeds out.

3. Separate the strips of bacon and cook in the microwave for about 5 minutes on high, just enough to give it a head start. Then pat dry with paper towels. Just to soak up some of the grease. Set it aside to cool.

4. Fill either a pastry bag or just a freezer bag (cutting one corner out), and pipe some of the filling into each pepper until full but still able to almost close the pepper.

5. Wrap each pepper with a strip of bacon then use two or three toothpicks to secure the pepper closed.

6. Place the jalapeños on a medium heat grill and cook until the bacon is crisp. you'll need to turn frequently to heat them evenly. you may even want to use foil to prevent the mess. I find that by cooking the bacon a little first and not over filling that you'll get minimal mess however.

7. Let them sit for about 5 to 10 minutes and serve them up! Don't forget which ones have the seeds!

------------

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on January 13, 2018, 12:40:11 AM
It is mussel season right now on the West Coast, during any month with an "R" in the name you can harvest and eat wild, natural mussels. And it is also the season for clams, and oysters, etc etc etc.

Salute,

Tony V.


Title: Re: Food Matters
Post by: FlyingVProd on January 14, 2018, 06:31:07 PM
The cowboys in the USA used windmills to pump water, and they saved the water in little ponds, and then they used the water from the ponds to irrigate their food gardens, etc.

Link...

http://www.backwoodshome.com/water-pumping-windmills/

Also, water systems are easy to do. I worked for the Burbank YMCA at a summer camp in the Tehachapi mountains, and I was in charge of the water system. It depends on the area how you go about building a water system, no child should ever go without clean water to drink. And people can even take showers. Water should be cheap and plentiful.

Salute,

Tony V.