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How Should the Basketball "Topics" Be Arranged?

Knicks, NBA, College
- 3 (50%)
Knicks, Other Basketball
- 0 (0%)
NBA, College
- 1 (16.7%)
Basketball
- 0 (0%)
Leave it as it is
- 2 (33.3%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Voting closed: August 30, 2020, 02:57:14 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 328029 times)

kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13410 on: September 17, 2020, 10:07:07 AM »

Funny how in the annals of "lets kill the Knicks for their draft", you dont hear much of Darrel Walker selected over Clyde Drexler in '83
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bankshot1

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13411 on: September 17, 2020, 10:21:34 AM »

I don't feel like re-examining every trade or FA Ainge pondered or might have been offered in 15, 16, 17, 18 as he rebuilt the Celts coming out of the Nets mega-trade

but the point remains Melo for Brown and Rozier was so one-sided in the Knicks favor only a Knicks fan boy would think it an equitable trade based in reality.

And no one is denying that Melo was an all-star at the time, just that it he was not a good trade for several reasons, including as already posted he was an aging ball-clog who didn't play D, and was not a very good fit, and he would have killed the Celtics cap space.

That the Knicks looked at the Celts as a dumping ground for Melo is not a surprise given the Celts surplus of 1s and reasonablly good players under good contracts.

everyone wanted to get the Celts engaged for those picks and young assets.

But since the Celts had mostly good contracts, and not a lot of bad ones, finding the "ballast" to make up the difference to make the NBA trade machine smile on Melos $25 million and B&R $6 million would have meant blowing up the team for a guy who really didn't fit. Bo seems to either miss this small point or not understand it.

The Celts wanted a 2-way wing and had ireal demonstrated interest in younger stars like Durant, Paul George, Jimmy Butler but finally settled on Gordon Hayward.

They wanted young 2-way stars with upside not fading 1-way players

Melo was really not in the mix,

But the REAL ISSUE REMAINS: Trading Melo for Brown and Rozier (and several other players) to accomodate Bo's wet dream fantasies was never a reality.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 10:23:45 AM by bankshot1 »
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13412 on: September 17, 2020, 10:26:29 AM »

No doubt Ainge has been an excellent Celts GM, all told

And from what I hear he was never dealing Brown.  Just where they selected him shows how high C's have been on Jaylen all along - and its silly that Bo states, "Jaylen wasnt playing" when trying to convince folks Brown was available.
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bankshot1

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13413 on: September 17, 2020, 10:41:54 AM »

No doubt Ainge has been an excellent Celts GM, all told

And from what I hear he was never dealing Brown.  Just where they selected him shows how high C's have been on Jaylen all along - and its silly that Bo states, "Jaylen wasnt playing" when trying to convince folks Brown was available.

Celts tend to bring rookies along slowly-to make too much of Brown only playing 15-20 minutes in his rookie season is making a mountain of a mole hill.

its silly

same with Rozier playing behind IT. There's only so many minutes to go around.

Same with Grant Williams this year, a high hoops IQ Marcus Smart type player, who got maybe 15 minutes.

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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13414 on: September 17, 2020, 11:24:41 AM »

https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/1306310529007452160

Congrats to Tatum for all NBA 3rd team

Snubs?

Should Westbrook have made it?
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13415 on: September 17, 2020, 11:59:35 AM »

But since the Celts had mostly good contracts, and not a lot of bad ones, finding the "ballast" to make up the difference to make the NBA trade machine smile on Melos $25 million and B&R $6 million would have meant blowing up the team for a guy who really didn't fit. Bo seems to either miss this small point or not understand it.

Amir and Jerebko were the obvious ballast replaced by Melo.  They weren't key pieces.  The salary matching wasn't hard.  There was no blowing up needed.

The issue was really, as that BOS article alludes, that Ainge/Celts had some interest in Melo in previous years, but by the time Phil was trying to ride Melo out of town, BOS only had some residual interest left, and were moving on to other options.  The thing is Melo was attainable and FA is a crapshoot -- Celts didn't get PG13 or Butler, their main targets at the time -- so they had to think about it some.  But had largely moved on.


Funny, googling for Melo + Boston gets lots of Fab Melo hits.  I kind of forgot about him, and reminds that Ainge also muffed draft picks, but smartly had many to work with and got the very high picks right.  Ainge also drafted Yubesele, a guy I might have seen more than Ainge did, and I evaluated as not a 1st round pick and likely wouldn't stick in the League.


I also ran across a BOS Real GM message board link, where a Celt fan was advocating for Smart + Amir + Jerebko for Melo.  I thought that highly unlikely, as BOS had just jettisoned A Very Bradley in favor of Smart.  So were not moving him, a tough young defender for Melo.  Phil was enamored of Crowder, and he might have been available with Ainge figuring Tatum would move into the 3&D wing role soon enough. 


I also ran across an article saying that Phil was a big Austin Rivers fan and wanted to get him.  Certainly would have made kiid happy.
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bankshot1

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13416 on: September 17, 2020, 12:17:28 PM »

Quote
The issue was really, as that BOS article alludes, that Ainge/Celts had some interest in Melo in previous years, but by the time Phil was trying to ride Melo out of town, BOS only had some residual interest left, and were moving on to other options.  The thing is Melo was attainable and FA is a crapshoot -- Celts didn't get PG13 or Butler, their main targets at the time -- so they had to think about it some.  But had largely moved on.

Bo-the point remains when you proposed this trade, it was DOA-dead on arrival.

IT HAD NO FUCKING CHANCE OF HAPPENING

you vastly over-valued Melo.

The Knicks weren't getting Brown & Rozier

The Knicks ended up trading him for (sorry Carlos) $20M of Enos Kanter and $5 M of McDermott and a 2nd round pick.

And they dumped Kanter and Doug the next year

and the Celts picked Enos up for cheap.

Melo was traded as part of a salary dump for salary dump swap.



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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13417 on: September 17, 2020, 12:35:46 PM »

Kanter was good for us (23.1 PER)

And McD was dealt for Mudiay.

I guess we could have just kept Melo.  How would that have been?

Some guy named Robinson ended up ours from that deal as well.   Twasnt Nate.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 12:38:01 PM by kiidcarter8 »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13418 on: September 17, 2020, 12:39:33 PM »

I've always liked Rubio; always liked Dragic.
Two guys I've tried to keep an eye on for years.
Always interested when either seemed available.

I was happy and excited to see Dragic back in old form in bubble play, zipping around and causing havoc.  When PHX had 3 PG's I was in favor of getting Bledsoe or Dragic , whichever PHX would part with (IT was the 3rd PG).  Oddly they got rid of all 3.  And went with Brandon Knight.  I don't think PHX knew what they were doing back then.

They probably should have kept Dragic to assist their new young SG Dev Book.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13419 on: September 17, 2020, 01:05:34 PM »

And from what I hear he was never dealing Brown.  Just where they selected him shows how high C's have been on Jaylen all along - and its silly that Bo states, "Jaylen wasnt playing" when trying to convince folks Brown was available.

Jaylen wasn't playing well.
Nov/Dec/Jan of his rook year = 40% FG & 30% on very few 3's. Not much of anything else.  (Jan 39% / 26%).
Jaylen was off to a shaky start, when I was trying to nab him before the trade deadline.  He played much better the 2nd half of the season.  Maybe Ainge knew what he had and wasn't trading him, but Jaylen had a tough adjustment period to kick off his career.  And they had Smart as their presumable long-term SG starter.
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chipstern

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Knicks Fantasy
« Reply #13420 on: September 17, 2020, 02:56:07 PM »

My idea of a Knicks-Celtics phantasmagorical phantasy is sixth man MARCUS SMART. 

Smart has improved EVERY YEAR as a Celtic. 

For instance, while he doesn't get to the FT line a lot, Smart went from a .646 as a rookie to .836 in 2019-2020. 

Rebounds and assists have also trended upwards, his dimes having ascended from 4.9 

Shoots more than half his jumpers from trey, so not a great percentage, but clutch. 

Mostly though, tough Tough TOUGH defender and in many ways the heart and soul of the Celtics. 

Somehow, I suspect that a package of _____________ and _____________ won't get it done. 

So many rumors out there, and some of the alleged trade proposals for Paul are simply ridiculous in terms of young players and draft picks. 

I'm back to not wanting to trade for CP3 unless is is purely salary cap filler going out. 

The rumor I am more in tune with is Knicks allegedly offering Van Vleet 22 million x 4 years.  Brogdon numbers. 

Yes, much of Van Vleet's success is system oriented, and he is only 6'1" but a good defender and a fierce, fearless competitor. 

Somehow, considering how much money the Raptors gave to Siakim, I don't see Van Vleet leaving. 
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13421 on: September 17, 2020, 03:04:42 PM »

"Hey, Skip  - I think we are only 2 players away."


- "Yeah - Koufax and Mays!"
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13422 on: September 17, 2020, 03:06:08 PM »

Draft:

I am warming up to R J Hampton.  Love his confidence.



ďI was a projected Top 5 pick last year. I went overseas, I learned a lot, I didnít have superior numbers and I was kind of forgotten about,Ē Hampton said in an interview with SNY. ďThe message that I was trying to get across is, ĎIím still that same player. Iím still that player that can get you 20-25 points, 6-7 assists, be that lead guard and a franchise changer.íĒ

ďThereís certain players that have talent that canít play in New York. I feel like Iíve been under the bright lights all my life. I was under the brightest lights of them all last year; I took every criticism. Ö I was an 18-year-old that went overseas and averaged nine points a game. The average 18-year-old that averages nine points a game and people are critiquing (them), they might fold. ďWith the Knicks, they know Iím a competitor, they know Iím willing to get better and I think they know I can handle the bright lights of New York City. ďA lot of it is just a mindset. You have to have that mindset if you want to play for New York City. You canít come in there being soft, you canít come in there wanting anything handed to you. And thatís never how Iíve had it. Obviously, Iím going to have some ups and downs and learn and be a rookie and make some mistakes. But the mindset is youíve got to go to New York and want to be hungry and a winner.Ē
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:09:39 PM by kiidcarter8 »
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chipstern

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Knicks Payroll
« Reply #13423 on: September 17, 2020, 03:25:18 PM »

2019/20

Knicks Team Payroll: $110,374,031

2019/20

Team Payroll Rank: 30

And that's with the $41 Million in team options on Ellington, Payton, Gibson and Portis, plus Harkless, still on the books. 

All dressed up and anywhere to go?

It would seem, unless the Knicks make a big splash this season, that they will be set up to make moves in 2021, with Randle's option coming due, assuming they have not traded him, a la Morris....likewise Portis, who makes sense (To ME anyway) at $15 Million as our stretch 4 back-up center into the season, wherein, if he shines, could also be attractive to a contender, a la Morris. 

I am aware that Rose wants to make a splash, and Thibs won't go the Fizzle Out route, but I pray Leon is judicious and Thibs is patient.  We have gone the PLAYER DEVELOPMENT ROUTE in our assistant/associate coach staffing.  PATIENCE, butterflies, patience.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #13424 on: September 17, 2020, 03:33:30 PM »

I like him enough but I just don't see Portis remaining with this team.
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