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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 1193771 times)

Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1605 on: October 31, 2018, 10:34:57 PM »

There's 240 minutes in a game.  We need to put up 110 points a game.

That is 11 points per 24 minutes.

Lance Thomas contributed 3 points in 16.
Enes Kanter contributed 7 points in 21.

You can't win with this.

But since we are hoping for losses... this was still a good game.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1606 on: October 31, 2018, 10:49:01 PM »

However good Hardaway is playing, once we start to run for him we are bound to lose.

Kanter was extra horrible tonight and got about 5 minutes too much burn.

Lance is entirely useless except as a mediocre defender. Lee and or Knox means we never see him on the floor again.

I liked what I saw from Vonleh, Dotson, and Trier.

7 dimes and really good D from Frank who needs to take more assertive shots.

Mitch will have to figure out how to be effective in games like this.

For all their talent, Indy needed big time luck to catch us. 

We have the tools to win games like these.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1607 on: October 31, 2018, 11:00:38 PM »


7 dimes and really good D from Frank who needs to take more assertive shots.


Clyde mentioned Frank made his first three pt attempt in the previous two starts.

But he missed his first three pt attempt tonight.

It's like he uses his first shot as evidence whether or not he should shoot more.

He has to break that habit.  We need his scoring, or drawing more fouls.
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Kam

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1608 on: October 31, 2018, 11:03:42 PM »


We have the tools to win games like these.

You're damn right.  No KP No Lee no Knox.  We aren't going to be at full strength for a while.

So as long as we show competitiveness (Miami game the exception) it's all good.

I praise Fizz so far.

He is ok eating losses in order to develop the team.

Not many coaches would be so generous with their personal W-L coaching record.

EDIT: Also i doubt we would've been close in this game with the previous starting lineup.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 11:05:18 PM by Kam »
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1609 on: October 31, 2018, 11:04:46 PM »

It will continue to be a learning process for Frank. It’s clearly worthwhile at this point.

For all the crapping on Lance, he was two steals better than O’Quinn and McDermott combined.
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1610 on: October 31, 2018, 11:07:24 PM »

We need to find better ways to get somebody moving downhill with the ballahead of their defender in late game possessions. Once we do that, the record will start to correct itself.
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Kam

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Vonleh and Trier
« Reply #1611 on: October 31, 2018, 11:12:03 PM »

Noah "partially guaranteed" Vonleh can win comeback player of the year... let's see who else emerges.

Alonzo "two-way" Trier has a shot at All-Rookie 2nd Team.

Smart money.

Mary "mid-level" Ohezonya

Dumb money.

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Kam

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Only 1 assist 2 rebounds
« Reply #1612 on: October 31, 2018, 11:56:14 PM »

For Jr.
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Nagel

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1613 on: November 01, 2018, 12:09:29 AM »

Rose drops 50.

remarkable.

NY is on a pace to win 20.   however my 25 win pick includes 25 games of KP so i'm feeling pretty good at 25.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1614 on: November 01, 2018, 04:36:19 AM »

If Tim is going to score 37 on very good %'s, I don't care if he has negative rebounds and assists.  Hall pass for that game.
5 turnovers more problematic as those are even worse than missed shots.

But I only saw the 1st half.
So no real idea what went down.

Oladipo usually plays poorly when I see INDy.  And again he had an ineffective low-key 1st half.  I shouldn't have turned off (had to work).

Sabonis played with fire.
Some serious stat stuffing in 21 mins.
Lotta good, plus 6 TO's & 6 Fouls.

Zonja too casual and careless (Breen called him "reckless").
Still a good gamble and 75 games to see if he can focus and tighten up his sloppy game. 

Mud/Burke; Vonleh/Subpar Mario ...
Who knew which of these cats would show NBA level play and which would continue to look a mess.
So far, Burke and Vonleh look legit.
Early on Noah, but he could even become a legit starter.
Burke looks like a legit backup PG.

Reclamations that become rotation players can really boost a team.
Jury still out on Mud & Zonja.  If they fail to work out, we simply move on.  2 out of 4 scrap heap guys proving out is still a very good ratio.

Trier a somewhat different case but also a good find.
Knix have had good scouting and drafting the past dozen or so years.

With KZ and Knox out, Knix can take some pride in competitive losses.
Too bad there are so many other bad teams this year, as we could use another Top 10, preferably Top 5 pick for all our losses.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 04:38:24 AM by bodiddley »
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luee

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1615 on: November 01, 2018, 06:57:02 AM »

Good competitive game. KP was sorely missed. Main negative is Enes looking as though demotion is getting to him. Has THJ finally arrived? Amazing performance.
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Kam

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For the Kanter beliebers
« Reply #1616 on: November 01, 2018, 11:10:53 AM »

Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
 Among the Knicks early season +/- numbers, 2 really stand out:

Vonleh's on court rating: +9.9 (easily the best on NY)
Kanter off court: +4.5 (also easily the highest)

Fiz's greatest challenge: finding workable defensive units for Kanter while keeping good D in the starting 5.
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Kam

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Re: For the Kanter beliebers
« Reply #1617 on: November 01, 2018, 11:14:16 AM »


Fiz's greatest challenge: finding workable defensive units for Kanter while keeping good D in the starting 5.

I doubt the juice is worth the squeeze.  Especially if KP comes back as our stretch 5 and Vonleh cements the 4.

KP/MR
NV
DD
JR
FN

Spells D - E - F - E - N - S - E

I am impressed with Tim's ability and willingness to draw charging fouls.
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elephant

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1618 on: November 01, 2018, 11:21:15 AM »

Curiously,Thomas came in last night late in the 4th quarter and it was a decisively grim turn of events. Kanter had an unusually bad game. Hardaway Jr. trying to get to that next level — and succeeding — save for the last 5 minutes of the game. Which, you know, is a pretty important 5 minutes. That said, I love watching the surprises with the team this year. Like Trier last night. Confidence and control with the ball. We are genuinely close to winning these games. Who expected that?
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Pharoah

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1619 on: November 01, 2018, 11:24:33 AM »

  I   know getting that close only to lose hurts, but watching the youngest team in the league drag another playoff team into a dogfight is more sweet than bitter. The Pacers has Oladipo, the Knicks didn’t have KP. The game itself was neck and neck from start to finish with promising signs from a slew of players. A physical, defensive minded team went at the kids and they never backed down. We’ve witnessed teams of vets fold mentally under those circumstances in the past. It might not be clear yet, but the knicks feel like they’re on to something and it’d be a shame to let close losses to quality teams ruin that.

    Frank: Frank’s jumper abandoned him and the Pacers collapsed their defense to shut down his offense. He still managed to get into the lane on many of his touches and find players for assists while his defense anchored a great team effort from the starters. 2/8 from the field and 0/2 from three point land, but Frank contributed 4 points, 7 assists (two more gimmes were missed by teammates too), 1 steal and just 2 TO's in 33 minutes. He HAS to get some more points on the board in that time, but there were some really promising signs in his game. First and foremost, he found his ways to get into the lane against a defense that he couldn't keep honest with his jumper and once he got in the paint; he was able to find his big men consistently. On multiple occasions the Pacers forced Frank left and he responded with much improved comfort using that left hand. Defensively, he continues to anchor the entire team and that starting unit is really starting to show promise as the miscommunications have been reduced. Ntilikina's a work in progress, no doubt, but if he starts to find consistency with his jumper and getting into the lane...

    THJ: Tim Hardaway knocked down a long catch and shoot three to start the game and was on fire the rest of the way. His off the dribble jumpers were falling and he was unconscious from three point land. 37 points off 10/19 from the field, 7/11 from three and 10/10 from the free throw line. He was the picture of efficiency as a scorer. Now the rest of his statline isn't nearly as pretty. He only added 1 rebound and 1 assist to 5 TO's that included two times he just got his pocket picked by Oladipo during their fourth quarter duel. That's a lot easier to forgive because of how crucial he was to our offense. The Pacers played REALLY strong defense and they run out bigs that can hurt a team with weak spacing like ours. This led to a lot of situations where the shot clock ran low and somebody had to create. Surrounded by 23 and under players, Timmy stepped up and made a LOT of plays. I'm not sure I can really blame him for how the closing minutes went. I get the feeling late in games that Fiz isn't ready to trust the kids thanks to substitution habits and last night's ISO-THJ conclusion...so I'm giving Tim a pass for fading late against one of the top 5 SG's in the league, with no semblance of serious plays being run. But let's keep an eye on it.

    Dotson: Dot started the game 1/4 and struggling to hit even an open look. Then as the game got tight and the team needed buckets, he just started to make play after play. Damyean Dotson pumped in 13 points, 3 rebounds, an assist and a steal that led to an and-one with some foul trouble for Sabonis on the side. He went from 1/4 early to 5/11 closing and added another 2/4 from three point land. His defense was good enough that Breen kept bringing up how Dotson's motor wasn't going away regardless of those early offensive struggles. Most importantly, what Dot's doing feels sustainable. His shooting touch got him drafted, his defense is just plain good and the scoring will stick as long as he's willing to attack. The kid has shown that he belongs and the question now is "how much can he improve?" I think the answer is more than most would expect, feel free to ask if you want more on this viewpoint.

    Vonleh: As great as THJ was last night, Noah Vonleh was my favorite player. That's because his defensive presence was massive. At one point, Myles Turner made consecutive baskets off of Pick and Rolls that forced switches. The next time down when the switch came, you could hear Vonleh SCREAMING for an extra switch so that he could guard Turner. Vonleh came over, played post defense and knocked the ball off of Turner's leg and out of bounds. On another occasion; he blocked a shot, rebounded it, dribbled the ball up the court to push pace and found Hardaway open for a three pointer. He did EVERYTHING. 4/6 from the field, 1/2 from three (yep he's starting to shoot too) which translated to 14 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals and 3 blocks. It's impossible to exaggerate how fun he is to watch on defense; chasing guards on a switch or shutting down bigs in the post. Now it wasn't a perfect night, he also had 5 TO's with that preseason offensive foul bug rearing it's head. But at this early point in the season Vonleh has been a revelation from his work at the top of the key with our guards to his defense in all situations...and also it feels like he dunks on at least one guy a game in spite of low FGAs.

    Mitch: So Mitch didn't give us any scoring but his presence was still clear as day. At one point he defended three consecutive jump shot attempts, blocking one from Myles Turner and forcing misses on all of 'em. Sheed's apprentice added 4 boards and 2 blocks while missing his only 3 attempts in an 18 minute run. He's still getting his legs under him and plays so intense that you can see him gassed fairly quickly, but the results of his time out there are hard to deny. I didn't count, but Vonleh reaped a lot of benefit from rebounding shots that Mitch had challenged when Pacers attacked (like the three I mentioned before). He did the NBA Street 2 "hold both shoulder buttons down" block too, grabbing a shot he blocked like it was a damned rebound. I'm just waiting for his cardio to improve and for his PnR footwork to gain some consistency. He's still bypassing his mistakes off pure athleticism and effort, but his impact will be even more pronounced when he masters the details.

    Burke: I think Burke got a bit of a raw deal last night as he let a lot of the guys around him take isolations or attack possessions and just never established the rhythm you need to be an impact scorer. 2/5 from the field for 6 points and 2 assists without a TO for Trey. I'm giving him a mulligan on the PnR defense last night too because none of our defenders were particularly good in that area while the personnel around him just does not help in any way defensively. It was an uneventful 14 minutes but that's better than forcing the issue.

    Allonzo: Allonzo Trier was in full Iso-Zo mode last night, scoring with great efficiency and snaking into the lane around the Pacers' many big men. Trier was 6/7 from the field, 2/2 from three for 14 points, 3 boards, 1 assist and a block. Let's not linger on what we already know about and point out a few stand out bits. This was only the second time that Zo has made multiple three's in a game and only the third time he's even attempted multiple three pointers. I'd like to see him look for that three ball a bit more and force defenders to find him further from the basket...he's already hard to stop going North to South so that additional space between the defender and his help ought to let Trier be even more crafty. Trier also stood out for a few very nice defensive stands against a tricky scorer in his own right, Tyreke Evans. Having this rookie's defense develop into a strength will be huge because he's already got that whole scoring thing figured out.

    Lance: Lance had a nice drive for an and-one as soon as he came into the game and spent the next 15 minutes unable to put the ball in the hoop or log much in the way of measurables. He put up 3 points and 2 steals in 16 minutes on 1/4 from the field including a missed corner three that was wide open late and would have tied the game. That miss stood out and may have made a pedestrian performance just look terrible. The Knicks leaned on him late to sure up the defense at the 4 slot and he did a commendable job but being unable to impact the game anywhere else while just being commendable...it was a step back in the facepalm direction. His defense and leadership has value but he has to either make those assets big enough to make their impact felt throughout his time on the floor or he needs to make his damned open looks...should do both, but beggars can't be choosers here and I'll take one.

    Mario: There was this brief moment after Sabonis had torched the front court in the first quarter, where Mario looked locked in and hungry. He had some nice defensive moments, a coast to coast attack and grabbed some boards...but that bit of time was sandwiched between an atrocious first quarter defensively and out of control play after. 3 points, 7 rebounds and 2 TO's in 13 minutes from Mario that were frustrating because we saw glimpses of the tools he has but it never came together. Making just 1 of 5 attempts is no way to stay on the floor.

    Kanter: Kanter tends to struggle with bigger bodied defenders and if you couple offensive struggles with his defensive struggles then that's a recipe for Knicks twitter to scream "off with his head" like a slept on Big Pun track. Kanter was unusually inefficient with 3/11 from the field for 7 points, 6 boards and 2 assists to 2 TO's in 21 minutes. Everyone is focused on Domantas Sabonis dropping 30 points on 12/12 from the field predominantly in pick and roll attacks against Kanter, so you've probably heard enough about that. If Kanter's on an island as the only big, these sorts of things can happen...especially against someone as talented as Sabonis has become. More importantly, if his defensive effort is going to wane like that then I don't think he should be getting 11 takes on the other end while we have isolation players like Burke and Zo out there. If he was making them it'd be one thing, but everyone should recognize when he's up against two bigs on the other end...it's a mismatch in the wrong direction and we don't need to force that. Either way, this was the first time I really felt frustrated about his effort so far. I think part of that was more personnel and confusion related against a tough PnR attack. But if that becomes habitual then Mitch needs to get the cardio up FAST.

    Fiz: The mixed bag that is Fiz coaching has really come down to mostly positive developments that get overshadowed by a handful of bad choices late. This game was no different in that aspect. I think Fiz left Kanter against Domantas for too damned long and the stat sheet doesn't even show how pronounced this was. Noah Vonleh matched with Domantas a few times late and was WAY more effective. Lance was out there too long late as well imo, but again, the missed corner three could be painting this in a worse light. Last on the negative tip, can we PLEASE make a shift to having Frank defend the player that's taking over in the fourth quarter. I love that Timmy is accepting the challenge but he's the weakest perimeter defender in the starting unit; we have a potential shutdown guard who could use the lessons that come with guarding elite scorers late; and Tim's shouldering too much offensive burden to expect to stop great scorers 45 minutes into the game. But let me add the positives to all of this. Our two sophomores that got no love last year logged 65 minutes combined in a neck and neck battle. When the team needed an extra scorer late, Fiz trusted the rookie Trier and Zo made a play almost immediately. There's a lot to be said about this team not folding in a physical game if only because so many previous rosters have had meltdowns over missed calls and high pressure defense. I'm not sure what to think of the unimaginative offense late in games, especially when Fiz says the team didn't execute the plays he drew up. Late game execution is something to watch but it's also one we probably should give Fiz some leeway and time on. He's gotta figure out what works and doesn't; he's got an extremely young team that hasn't been in these situations before; and he's missing that go-to player that has created separation in games like Milwaukee and last night. The in-game stuff has had a hit or miss feel, but the overall direction of the team and efficacy of rotations has been steadily improving. Add the fact that our young cats are showing sincere growth in their mindsets, decision making and defense...it's hard for me to be too mad right now.

    Visualize This: This hit me while watching Noah Vonleh in the first half last night. The offense tends to start plays with the ball handler heading for a wing and then swinging the ball to Vonleh who can hand it off or keep swinging it and set a screen. This means Noah's getting a lot of touches and a ton of action even off the ball. The big man has been really good here, making use of every option he has from passing to attacking off the dribble to even some shots last night. Now think about who that role is actually designed for with this franchise...KP is going to EAT in that role. I'm telling you, go through the Vonleh highlights or watch the first half again and just picture KP in that role. I can already picture it and while it feels far away, that means that the players around KP will be even more comfortable executing around him. I think this will be the foundation...and also I already want to re-sign Vonleh.
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