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Question: Which player in the mix at #9 do you wish most to see as a Knick?
Carter - 4 (40%)
Trae - 2 (20%)
Knox - 0 (0%)
Shai - 0 (0%)
Mikal - 4 (40%)
Sexton - 0 (0%)
BobWill - 0 (0%)
Miles - 0 (0%)
MPJ - 0 (0%)
LW4 - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 10

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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 199216 times)
lesterdog, carlos123 and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.
Kam
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« Reply #18930 on: March 10, 2018, 01:58:25 PM »

Franc's super-young and has plenty to work on.
But the basics of his game are solid.
I'm cautiously optimistic.
Really he just needs to shoot a bit more (though being very pass-1st isn't a bad thing for a teenager), and improve his outside stroke.
Other issues: tighten up handles, avoid telegraphing some passes; and cut down on ticky-tack fouls, strengthen up.
The kid has poise, seems smart and hard-working.

Young.

That's pretty much all I give him.



Young and already a plus defender with a High Bball IQ.  He is missing the feel for the NBA game.  Which he would get if i don't know we didn't have some charlatans playing his spot right now.  Franc aint a SG.
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NYKnicks12
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« Reply #18931 on: March 10, 2018, 02:19:09 PM »

Good read...

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/steve-francis-i-got-a-story-to-tell/
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thebizneverloses
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« Reply #18932 on: March 10, 2018, 02:21:30 PM »

85  guards have averaged 11-3-4 in their first three seasons while playing at least 160 games. Good news is Mudiay is on that list. Bad news he has the second lowest PER (lowest being some guy who was a rookie in 1949).
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bodiddley
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« Reply #18933 on: March 10, 2018, 06:24:40 PM »

Interestingly, HOF Lenny Wilkins is just above Muddy in PER.
He was before my time.

1st year:   11.7  Pts   2.8  Ass   4.5  RB  42.5% FG -- 25 mins
2nd year:  18.2  Pts   5.8  Ass   6.6  RB  38.5% FG -- 43.5 mins  -- just 20 games
3rd year:   11.8  Pts   5.1  Ass   5.4  RB  40% FG   -- 34 mins  -- 70% FT

4th year similar to his 3rd but slightly down in Ass & RB, with 3.7 Fouls per game.
Then his 5th year at age 25 his numbers improved, while notably upping his FTA's from 4.7 to 7.2 (and his FT% to 79%).

Until his 8th year at age 30 he hit 20 Pts / 8.5 Ass & 5.4 Rbs, 44% FG, 8.7 FTA's
From 30-35 he averaged close to 20 / 9 / 5
And was still successful at age 36, a rather advanced age for a PG in the early 70's.

A rather unusual career, with a slow start.  Apparently got injured his 2nd year, when he started to achieve.  He didn't really put things together until fairly late in his career.  Good rebounder for a 6'1" PG.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #18934 on: March 10, 2018, 07:21:21 PM »

85  guards have averaged 11-3-4 in their first three seasons while playing at least 160 games. Good news is Mudiay is on that list. Bad news he has the second lowest PER (lowest being some guy who was a rookie in 1949).

15-6-4 are the key numbers (per 36)
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #18935 on: March 10, 2018, 07:27:32 PM »

Franc's super-young and has plenty to work on.
But the basics of his game are solid.
I'm cautiously optimistic.
Really he just needs to shoot a bit more (though being very pass-1st isn't a bad thing for a teenager), and improve his outside stroke.
Other issues: tighten up handles, avoid telegraphing some passes; and cut down on ticky-tack fouls, strengthen up.
The kid has poise, seems smart and hard-working.

Young.

That's pretty much all I give him.



Young and already a plus defender with a High Bball IQ.  He is missing the feel for the NBA game.  Which he would get if i don't know we didn't have some charlatans playing his spot right now.  Franc aint a SG.

I dont think Frank is a plus defender.

Clyde says NBA types like Frank.  So I am waiting to see what they might be seeing.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #18936 on: March 10, 2018, 08:18:18 PM »

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/09/media/sportscenter-espn-michael-smith-exit/index.html
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bodiddley
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« Reply #18937 on: March 11, 2018, 09:47:46 AM »

I dont think Frank is a plus defender.
Clyde says NBA types like Frank.  So I am waiting to see what they might be seeing.

This defensive ranking (through Jan 1) has Franc as the 11th best perimeter defender, slightly negative as an interior defender, and averaging out to 39th overall.
http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2018/01/01/draymond-has-been-the-nbas-best-defender/

Also has KZ as the 2nd best interior Defender, right at average on perimeter D, and 3rd best overall.
With Dray Green as #1 overall (a significant plus defender both inside and out)
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bodiddley
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« Reply #18938 on: March 11, 2018, 09:57:49 AM »

Franc has good size, poise, instincts.
Plays nice long-armed D at 19.  Has been coached well.
Is a pretty good passer.
And his shot looks decent, though not that accurate so far.

Most of his flaws seem correctable:
Most rooks need to work on strength and consistency.
Need to get him a bit more aggressive looking for his own shot more.
Cut down on minor fouls.

Most of that comes with experience, coaching, comfort level, knowing the players on both his team and opponents.

Two key areas:
- Can he develop a 3-shot over the next 2-3 years?  And a midrange J?
- He doesn't have much of a burst for driving, but seems pretty good at being crafty to make up for it.

Look at Fox, Monk, Jr Smith.
All of them have significant flaws that need to be addressed.
Any of them demonstrably better than Franc?
Monk has had a terrible year.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #18939 on: March 11, 2018, 10:02:54 AM »

As for Mud, my concern is that he doesn't have coaching and fundamentals to fall back on.  So he's mostly playing on raw ability.  And he's been hugely inconsistent for 3 years now.  Can look great one game and totally lost another. 

I think it was a good gamble to add Mud, but I don't trust his instincts/thinking.  Knix really need to put a development plan in place for him this Summer.  Get him in great shape.  And get him trusting either his J or his finishes.  If he can do either one confidently, it will help open up the game for him.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #18940 on: March 11, 2018, 11:46:46 AM »

Frank

"His shot looks decent, though not accurate......"

Calls to mind the Billy Beane line

Scout - "Good hitter, Billy.  The ball just jumps off the bat"

Beane:  "If he's a good hitter, why doesn't he hit good?"

Fox

Yeah, I take him over Ntilikina.

Recent analysis of Perry had him getting good grade - with one of the points being that he was not responsible for the Frank N pick.
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Kam
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« Reply #18941 on: March 11, 2018, 01:07:04 PM »

Perry made the Frank N pick look bad by trading for Mud.  He didn't have to do that.  Just start Frank.  

BUT Perry wants to "make his mark" and we get this one-step forward two-steps back BS with moving Frank off the ball.

This a zero sum game. Perry wants MUD to become the man here (which makes Frank trade bait and hurts his trade value at the same time).

Mud failing is not in Perry's interest so they will force feed Mud PG minutes at the expense of Frank.

By the same token Perry knows he already gets no credit for KP and if Frank turns out great he won't get credit for him either.

Perry is just another carpetbagging asshole trying to make a name for himself in new york.  FUCK SCOTT PERRY.

Frank's development had already taken a huge hit bringing in Burke and then Mud to play the same role "Young future PG"

That was Franks role at the start of the year and at 19 years of age you don't mess with the kid like that.

Perry gets a big fat F so far from me.

Trading a shooter in a shooters league for a guy who can't shoot. Brilliant!
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 01:12:20 PM by Kam » Logged

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kidcarter8
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« Reply #18942 on: March 11, 2018, 01:17:38 PM »

Yeah, I liked Dougie too, Kam.

Have to watch it play out.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #18943 on: March 11, 2018, 02:42:12 PM »

I think you're getting too worked up.
Basically, Mud took over the Jack role.
And Franc is still getting 20+ mins off the bench.
The kid is 19 and this is his first go round on 82 games.
Don't need him injured or overwhelmed.

Mud not my favorite player, but a young G worth taking a look at and trying to develop.  Burke has cut into Franc's PG role, but only because he has played pretty well.

I think it's been handled fairly well by NYK, but I'm a bit concerned how it plays out next year.  Hearken back to those Ray Williams, Darell Walker, Rory Sparrow days -- with Tim Jr as Trent Tucker and KZ as Bernard.


So seems Kanter is out (back) and Kornet starting.
Way to tank.
I'd rather see Franc and KO in the starting lineup together.
But will be interesting to see how the team does without Kanter in the 1st half.
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #18944 on: March 11, 2018, 03:02:55 PM »

Ntilikina did start

Nice job checking DeMarr

Kornet positive as well but wont be banging boards like Rodman anytime soon.
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