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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[Kam]

No such stat as defensive +/-

Really?

Kanter scored 17 points and grabbed 12 rebounds in just 20 minutes of work Tuesday night. He is averaging 14.4 points and 10.6 rebounds per game, but he ranks 60th in defensive real plus-minus amid the 61 qualified centers.

Yeah, my mistake,
Kanter's 61 out of 61 now.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/9

So the thing about RPM is that it realises that regular +/- is highly susceptible to small sample size and all kinds of uncontrollable factors (did an opponent have an unusually strong or weak game that had nothing to do with you and skews your stats and provides little predictable value?). There was just too much variance within years and between years for +/- to be too useful a stat.

So what they've done is tried to reduce standard errors by "regularising". This means subjecting the data to stuff like similarity scores, looking at three years data rather than just year, a player's age, the score of the game, even a player's height (which is why taller players have better DRPMs...the model presumes taller players are better defenders). The model makes assumptions on what parameters should be set as limits for a players contributions and uses them as inputs for the stat.

RPM suffers from two major flaws: 1) there's an awful lot they haven't ever explained (like how much each factor is worth), and 2) like all +/- stats, it cannot completely isolate a player's contribution as opposed to who the player tends to play with (collinearity or multicollinearity issues). It still relies on loads of presumptions (a short, aging point guard who only plays garbage time minutes and has struggled for the past couple of years can only have x impact on a game and his stats should be massaged accordingly).

Most stats guys begrudgingly say it's probably as good a +/- stat as any (begrudgingly, I'm guessing, because it's proprietary and also they stole most of the model and refurbished it). But it ain't gospel.

And you need three years experience to look decent.
Our squad is the 2nd youngest in the L

But Mud, Kant, and Tim have no such excuse

[facilitatorn]

Nice to win at Staples.

Kanter with good all around effort.

Mudiay outplayed Ball which was key.

The sloppy shooting team overcame the sloppy passing team.

[lesterluv]

Big offensive AND defensive plays by Kanter to help close the win.

Lol, you are so stupid, Kam. But amusing.

Nice subbing by Fizzy, he coached to win for a change.

*** and decent second half by Mudiay, despite getting stuffed 5! times — and that inexplicable rush offense play with 1:20 left in a kill-the-clock situation...Wot was that??

[bodiddley]

Defensive real plus-minus provides a metric for defense.  And so it's useful on that level.  Of course you always should apply the eye test as well, and see if things seem to line up.  Mostly the visually good defenders are at the top and weak defenders at the bottom.

I noticed that Klay Thompson was near the bottom for SG's.  I think he's a solid defender but overrated.  He understands position and angles, but he fouls a bit much and guys can drive by him.  I rate him as an average defender from watching games.  DRPM puts him much lower.  But mostly the ratings correspond to what most folks see.

There's always things that won't be counted by stats.  Things like box outs so teammates get the rebound (sort of rebound-assists -- though I think overall boxouts are being charted).  Sometimes I'm playing and will set an unexpected screen and my teammate goes in for an easy layup, and I think that was my score.  Or even I see that my teammate can beat his defender off the dribble so I cut to clear the side for him.  And when it works, I think I should get an assist.  Of course, that kind of intangible is easier to pull in 4-on-4 halfcourt.

I'm rambling, but there's a lot going on in 100 possessions a game.  And defense requires more coordination and communication than offense.  I do think it's clear that the Knicks have more offenders than defenders.  And some of our players are rather weak at D.  As Les asks, going forward is Mud-Tim any kind of reliable backcourt pairing?

[bodiddley]

Saw some of a very streaky Mavs- Celts game. To end the half, Doncic dribbles behind his back, jukes Smart, sidesteps and launches and off-balance 3 that goes in just before the ohrn.  Doncic actually wanted a foul too, as Smart landed in basically Doncic's spot and they both went down.  The kid makes crazy plays.
Dirk went 0-10 FG; 0-8 on 3's/  Zero points, 3 fouls.

Yikes

[facilitatorn]

I liked Knox early and late. The consistency will come when he gets further along in puberty.

I think the trick to Kanter is he’s got to be willing to run his ass off, pick hard, and risk fouls, all of which he did this game. It’s not how he was approaching things while he was angling for an All-star bid. It makes a lot more sense for him to play that way now the prior approach got him benched for greener less physical players and he’s fighting for a next contract. If Enes keeps it up, it might slightly derail the tank.

Mudiay had quite the rebound from an abysmal first half.

We’re pretty good when we can steal the ball. We should do more of that.

Our 20 year olds, Mitch and Frank, get to rest ankles, pump iron, work on handles and one-footed, and chair shots.

Mario & Trey showed why they were here.

Full strength Blazers should put us back in the dumps again. It would be good to play them close at least.

[bodiddley]

Knox has stamina issues.  That's fine.  Play him 1Q & 3Q.

Mud again with rim issues.
Blew a 2-on-1 fast break layup.  And got blocked by ball on another.

[kiiidcarter8]

Kant KAN, baby!!!

[thebizneverloses]

Austin Rivers 5-0 with Rockets, including wins over OKC, Boston and Golden State.

37 minutes per.
40% from deep.

Since you love to cherry pick stats of your fave players, can we start getting game-by-game updates of how Lonzo Ball shoots on free throws? Thanks in advance.

[kiiidcarter8]

No.  But you can provide for the masses.

Point on Rivers is he seems to have been a good pickup for D'ant's team.  Nothing else.

[kiiidcarter8]

Mudy had about the best 4-16 I have seen.  Key in 3rd quarter spurt.  Once again many a dime not cashed.

Unguardable.

What happens when the help comes needs to be better.

[lesterluv]

Yup, pretty nice second half. Liked how he ran the offense. Only got stuffed once at the rack vs. 4 times in the first half. 4-16 likely because he couldn't get off the lane step back that has been his staple over the last few weeks. The trouble with evolving is that people evolve to you.

You could see that with Kornet last night. The 3 that goes in so easy when wide open and in-rhythm barely hits the side of a barn when not the case...

[kiiidcarter8]

Korn-o had a nice take down the lane.  McGee got there but the move was quite strong.

[lesterluv]

he's slowly unveiling other stuff, besides the 3, which is as it should be

[luee]

I love this group. A total commitment to picking and developing young ones. A win once a week, tons of competitive losses.