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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[bodiddley]

Gee, giving away KZ for not much is coming back to haunt us. 
Who could've guessed?

If we had KZ, RJB, Mitch, Knox, we'd be in pretty good shape.
Still could have added ELF.
Trier, Dot, Franc.
Then next year use whatever available cap space to add another FA starter.  Hopefully at PG.

KZ wanted out?
Repair the relationship.
Phil and previous coaches gone.
Offer KZ the big max extension, and tell him he's the franchise guy, and if he's unhappy after one year of playing (this season), we'll look into moving him. 

Probably Phil's biggest legacy.  Somehow turning/running off KZ.

[bodiddley]

BTw, a 3 man draft and we got one of 'em.
Fizz succeeded last year.

Which is why I'm willing to give him this blah new roster a full year to work with.  If all Fizz is is a good player development coach, well that fits right in with where we are.  Almost everyone improved last year.  And we managed the tank effectively.

I don't really care this year if we get 25 or 35 W's.  35 would no doubt be more fun, but this year is about developing the pups and figuring out who fits where and who belongs. 

If Fizz can't improve -- say substitutions, endgame situations, plays after timeouts, coherent D, spacing, etc, then he can be a 3 year development coach and we move on when were actually ready to start winning.

And i give Fizz credit for starting Barrett, letting him play some PG (though I think it's misguided given the rest of thee roster), and letting him guard Kyrie on the last play.  Fizz could be more cautious, but he's willing to take some chances and see what the young man has.  I'm in for that.

[kiidcarter8]

https://twitter.com/OrgPhysics/status/1154329845276512256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1154329845276512256&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftherookiewire.usatoday.com%2F2019%2F08%2F05%2Fcassius-stanley-2020-nba-mock-draft-duke-blue-devils%2F

[kiidcarter8]

Gee, giving away KZ for not much is coming back to haunt us.


You don't think we got anything useful out of the deal?

My concern is if there were other deals available - and the press hasn't dug up anything on that front. 

[bodiddley]

We got rid of Tim.
And got some cap space which we used on PF's.
But KZ is a PF and young and mighty talented.
We got very little.

The 2 #1's we got will be midrounders.  12-18.

The Clips gave up Shai to get PG.
He's a prize.
Not saying we could've had him, but there are always deals out there.

Basically KZ said he wanted out and we traded him 3 days later or somesuch.

[lesterluv]

KZ wanted out?
Repair the relationship.
Phil and previous coaches gone.
Offer KZ the big max extension, and tell him he's the franchise guy, and if he's unhappy after one year of playing (this season), we'll look into moving him. 

That's what you do.

Retaining or building value seems to be anathema to us, institutionally.
You can be sure, with Fiz's help, that Frank or DJr won't be worth a Little Debby Nutty Buddy by the time we toss them off our sunken ship.

[kiidcarter8]

Good teams have been built by moving on from "stars".  Was KP even taking the max had we offered?  That's a tough risk to take.  And are we really that much better if he does?

[bodiddley]

Fizz helped get Muddy right and TreyBurke look like a legit NBA backup.  These were two guys in danger of dropping out of the league.

I don't think you can blame Fizz for Smith's back or him looking like creamed crapola to start the season.

As for Franc, maybe Fizz is better at aiding players with some offensive skills.  But also Franc got dinged up a fair amount of last year.  Also, our rosters haven't been kind to Franc, as this year we again have 3 PG's, and two are ahead of of him.

But a lot is on Franc too.
He doesn't have a feel for when to shoot and when to pass.  Many of his passes are weak efforts.  He doesn't put pressure on the D much.  His J is weak.  He hasn't developed anything reliable on O.  For now, I'd like to see him force some drives, take open 3's, surprise some folks with aggression.  And generally be opportunistic on O.  And make crisp passes. 

I expect Fizz will give franc plenty of op to see what he can do.
Hell, could be soon if Jr. Smith needs a sit-down.

[bodiddley]

Good teams have been built by moving on from "stars".

Rarely.

And are we really that much better if he does?

Much much better.
ELF - Barrett - Knox - KZ - Mitch
Franc - Trier - Dot
Not sure we could have signed anyone else or not.
But probably at least an $8M MLE if we wanted.
Fortify the bench a little and we'd be a 6-8 seed.

And of course we'd have two young studs to build around, plus wildcard Mitch.  With Knox and Franc as still potential solid role player.  We'd be in good shape and in need of a starting PG.

[lesterluv]

We are much, much, much better. Ridiculously much better.

As for Franc & Fiz.

Fiz HATES Euros.

Franc has offensive skills.

He doesn't have rtg ISO skills.

He doesn't have confidence. All the things you talk about come through play.

Fiz with Frank has been designed to destroy confidence. Every step of the way. From not playing him on X-mas to 1 minute and 2 minutes yanks.

Yet, I have seen so much COMPLETE FUCKING CLOWN BALL from his American faves.  One horrible play after another. At both ends of the court. But as long as they are going to head to the rim and put up one shitshot after another it's ok. Endless run.

Get Frank outa here.....No meaningful, play-the-way-you-win basketball will happen here under Fiz so there just is no point.

[bodiddley]

I assume we'll have a mid-season trade with Smith or Franc being tosses into a package with maybe Morris or Portis and/or Taj.
If Jr. Smith goes, then Franc will be the primary backup PG and get minutes.  Or Franc goes as a package sweetener.

So we were competitive in the first 3 games v. playoff teams.
Schedule gets much easier as the next 11 games only has one playoff lock (@ BOS).  And no B2B's.
Next best team in that stretch: DAL x 2.
Also CHI x 2, CLE x 2 (both at MSG);
@Orl, CHA, @Det, SAC.

Lotta winnable games.
Especially CLE & CHA.
But DET has a weak bench.
SAC playing poorly, especially on D.
We should/could be as good or better than CHI.

10 out of the next 11 v. teams likely to finish below .500.
Time to make a move.

[kiidcarter8]

OK, so lets go 7-4

[kiidcarter8]

10, 16, 34, 82

Games missed by KP over 4 years

But go ahead and compare him to PG.

[FWK00]

https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/mavericks/2018/05/29/i-want-my-momma-dennis-smith-jr-s-rise-to-mavs-top-pick-came-with-a-caring-single-dad-family/

[elephant]

I don't see the utility in going backwards again to argue the KP debacle.

But however well his career goes, there's no arguing that the Knicks lost a young player who was widely perceived as an extraordinarily valuable asset.

IMHO, nothing speaks to the organization's disfunction as much as this episode — and we're talking about a legacy of terrible decisions to choose from. It's revealing too that there was, apparently, no accountability for the mishandling of the team's most valued player. No firings, no resignations. That says a bit about the organization too.