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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 899313 times)

bankshot1

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9720 on: December 27, 2019, 10:00:53 PM »

I've seen Philly play a few times this year and generally have been underwhelmed,

That team has the attention span of a gnat.

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FWK00

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Re: There's a Dark Cloud in every silver lining
« Reply #9721 on: December 28, 2019, 12:59:24 AM »

Barrett-Knox-Ntilikina combined for just 12 pts on 4 for 18 shot-making.

That WOULD be a dark cloud. 

If...

We lost. 

But we didn't. 

Let's see how the team responds to the Wizards on Saturday.  If they have a similar focus.

It's STILL  a fucking cloud.  Three fourths of our youth movement cant get consistent traction.

Only the rookie gets a pass here.

Let's stop taliking about this "base" until the consistency arrives.

(and I know, Chip - you favor the vets, so dont take this personally)

I favor the vets?

News to me. 

Was flabbergasted at all the minutes Fiz lavished on Ellington when Dotson was ready willing and able. 

And you are regularly amused by the traction I would proffer to Trier. 

I like our puppies, and am taken aback by how quickly many of the Trader Vics on this forum would ship them out of town for a bag of magic beans. 

It is often easy to forget how YOUNG our SEVEN puppies are. 

And GREEN. 

RJ [19]
Ziggy [20]
Knox [20]
Robinson [21]
Ntilikina [21]
DJ [22]
Trier [23]

And how young many of our vets are

Portis [24]
Randle [25]
Payton [25]
Dotson [25]
Allen [26]

That's TWELVE players under 26. 

As for our vets

Bullock [28]
Morris [30]
Ellington [32]
Gibson [34]

Of the "vets" I'm pulling for, mainly Morris. 

Inclined to pull for Bullock, because we need someone coming off the pine, besides Dotson, who can stroke AND defend. 

Baby Steps

RJ last night?

2-10.  Troubling. 

4 defensive rebounds, 3 offensive rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and a very adult give up the body offensive foul he drew, for a +20.   He PLAYED DEFENSE.  Knox and Frank have been too.  In lieu of hitting shots, DEFENSE WINS GAMES IN THIS MAN'S LEAGUE. 

Payton, 13-7-4-1 and only 1 turnover in 32 minutes for a +25.  And didn't allow Dinwiddie to run wild.  DEFENSE. 

You may be right about Randle finding his comfort level under Coach Miller.  Fizz presumed him to be a point forward, and while a willing and able passer, was a turnover festival trying to shoehorn his game into being a facilitator.  Was gratifying to see him working and dominating in the midrange, and while it troubles me to see him hoisting so many threes, he was 5-9 last night, so, I mean, yeah sure. 

Is it worth mentioning to the assembled Trader Vics, that Julius just turned 25 at the end of November.  He is also a puppy, and just finding his rhythm as the #1/#2 option along with Morris. 

Who will emerge as the #3 option.  God knows, we could use some consistent shooting. 

But for one night, it was fun to see our Knucks grinding on defense, and holding the playoff bound 16-13 (now 16-14) Nyets to a collective 21-78. 

Let's see if Coach Miller, Julius, Marcus and Elfrid can do it two games in a row. 

PS: Agree with the idea of letting Dennis tune up in Westchester.  Not sure how he would view that.  Not a demotion, but a search for RHYTHM.

Chip, I think the goal posts in the NBA have moved yet again. Free agency is no longer "free".  The reality is that the only truly available talent are not premiere talents who either opt for the golden handcuffs of their existing team or who are independently wealthy enough to write their own tickets as to destination.  Cap space has become an academic exercise in this regard though cap space.

The draft which was established during the days of no luxury taxes to prevent the Knicks from out-bidding the rest of the league for young talent has never been recalled. Its dysfunctional, unintended consequences continue to poison the talent pool to this day. It can't be eliminated because its become more entertainment than sensible business practice.

So the remaining avenue to improve a team roster is once again through trades.  And even trading is constrained by a Byzantine algebra that values money more than talent exchange.

So, yes, you are stuck with those of us who have earned membership in the Royal Order of Trader Vics.

One of the tenets of venture capitalists when funding a startup is to emphasize failing fast.  It prevents burning good money after bad.

I think its worth applying the same principle to rebuilds.

Your concern is that the Knicks, should they trade off some youth, will have abandoned the rebuild - such as it is.  I don't think so.

We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.

We also have a number of candidate players who, for whatever reason, are expendable.  We can choose to pretend that we can rebuild in perpetuity until Lady Luck hands us a generational talent or we can just start improving the roster one trade at a time.

You need to explain to me why standing still makes any sense at all.

DSJ wants out.  You want to talk him out of that?  I hope not.
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carlos123

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Shallow PP Club member
« Reply #9722 on: December 28, 2019, 01:45:59 AM »

FWK, you’re too f’in profound for me.

I guess I’m just shallow 😳
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9723 on: December 28, 2019, 10:14:18 AM »

We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.


We know nothing of the sort

Knicks play like a team - I credit Fiz and management at least for this.

Getting consistent BUCKETS and understanding rotations was the problem.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9724 on: December 28, 2019, 10:17:11 AM »

DSJ wants out.  You want to talk him out of that?  I hope not.


Question is how big an asset do you still view Smith as.
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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9725 on: December 28, 2019, 10:29:49 AM »

I think a good approach would be to take the 4 best teams in each conference and see how they built theirs

Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets and Rockets (Warriors if you like)

Bucks, Sixers, Raptors and Celtics (Heat if you like)
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9726 on: December 28, 2019, 11:06:44 AM »

I think a good approach would be to take the 4 best teams in each conference and see how they built theirs

Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets and Rockets (Warriors if you like)

Bucks, Sixers, Raptors and Celtics (Heat if you like)

The HEAT are very much the template I envy. 

But then again, we let Riley walk, and he has been with Miami for what, 25 years, and Spolestra has been the coach for more than a decade.  They have a culture, they have a consistency.  They have attracted free agents, they have nurtured youth, they have traded for players who fit their culture. 
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chipstern

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NO SALE
« Reply #9727 on: December 28, 2019, 11:11:14 AM »

We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.

You paint well. 

Extremely well, truth be told. 

But in this case, with way to broad a fucking brush. 

I look at Julius Randle in November, and Julius Randle in December, and I see growth. 

I look at Frank and Kevin and see progress. 

You see us cutting our losses. 

In other words, ANOTHER REBOOT. 

No

Thank

You

We've been having fire sales for twenty years when fans, the press, management lost patience, lost heart. 

Not standing still.  No.  NOT HAVING A HISSY FIT AND JUST WILY NILLY TURNING OVER THE ROSTER. 

Been There.  Done That. 

Sorry.

But NO SALE
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 11:12:58 AM by chipstern »
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FWK00

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9728 on: December 28, 2019, 11:58:29 AM »

We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.


We know nothing of the sort

Knicks play like a team - I credit Fiz and management at least for this.

Getting consistent BUCKETS and understanding rotations was the problem.

There is camaraderie.  Yes.  And many of the players are starting to find a groove of sorts.  But its a roster that has no future as a roster.  Not if the Knicks plan on winning.
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FWK00

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9729 on: December 28, 2019, 12:01:18 PM »

DSJ wants out.  You want to talk him out of that?  I hope not.


Question is how big an asset do you still view Smith as.

As a player, DSJ fits in with any team that's a rehabilitation center or simply needs a PG placeholder until next season.

DSJ's broader value is not as a player but as a contract that makes a larger deal work.
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FWK00

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9730 on: December 28, 2019, 12:03:28 PM »

I think a good approach would be to take the 4 best teams in each conference and see how they built theirs

Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets and Rockets (Warriors if you like)

Bucks, Sixers, Raptors and Celtics (Heat if you like)

Maybe we can move the Knicks to a nicer climate that's tax-free.

Then all we need is a generational player or two to take Dolan's money.

I like it.
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FWK00

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Re: NO SALE
« Reply #9731 on: December 28, 2019, 12:23:49 PM »

We already know the chemistry of this roster has failed fast so trading is an imperative.

You paint well. 

Extremely well, truth be told. 

But in this case, with way to broad a fucking brush. 

I look at Julius Randle in November, and Julius Randle in December, and I see growth. 

I look at Frank and Kevin and see progress. 

You see us cutting our losses. 

In other words, ANOTHER REBOOT. 

No

Thank

You

We've been having fire sales for twenty years when fans, the press, management lost patience, lost heart. 

Not standing still.  No.  NOT HAVING A HISSY FIT AND JUST WILY NILLY TURNING OVER THE ROSTER. 

Been There.  Done That. 

Sorry.

But NO SALE.

Chip,

Here's the reality.

Free agency is DOA for the coming two summers unless the Knicks dramatically reverse their fortunes.  The Knicks would be looking to outbid winning teams for the paltry two or three players worth signing.  The chances of winning the free agents is slim and none.

So trading for talent is a priority AND we have the kinds of assets teams desire.

Our summer signings were expensive internships.  If a player or two stick from that cohort, its a win.  IMO, Gibson, Morris, and Bullock (until he proves otherwise) stick.

The fact that Randle and Portis are playing better is great but they were never expected to be keepers.  Ellington is expendable and Payton is a keeper unless we trade into a know-quality PG in which case he could be flipped for a greater need.

Of the kiddie corp, RJ, Mitch, Frankie, Dotson, and Iggy stick.  Knox and Trier precisely because of their desrability should be on the trade bubble.

The mid-season goal has to be that either Portis becomes a consistent, heavy-weight C to complement Mitch or we need to find one in trade.

A decision has to be made to stick with Payton/Frankie as a two headed PG going forward OR trade in a Westbrook, Conley, CP3.

As is obvious, we should be looking for shooters and specifically either a SF or PF upgrade.

This year has to be a competitive one.  Being perennial losers and laughingstocks isn't rebuilding.

So, to your concern.  No, we aren't giving up on the rebuild, we would be hardening the roster every available opportunity.

NO WILLY_NILLY.

NO FIRE SALE.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 12:25:47 PM by FWK00 »
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zupzup2

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Is Westbrook a potential Spree?
« Reply #9732 on: December 28, 2019, 01:35:59 PM »

What do you all think? Especially if no re-re-build. I tend to think he would actually fit well in NYC. A chance to resurrect himself. a-la, Spree.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9733 on: December 28, 2019, 05:37:01 PM »

Spree was a choker ...


Since Chip loves Trader Vic's, here's how we continue the glorious Knick tradition of getting eminent PG's at the end of their careers.

Knicks trade
Morris - Portis - Ellington

Knicks get
Chris Paul and a 1st rounder (+ one of OKC guys making 1.5M)

I'd rather give them Randle, but Randle and Adams would be a definite clog.  Morris gives them a starting caliber SF and versatility.  He can also be insurance in case Gallo leaves -- they'd need to re-sign one of them. 

OKC gets out of Paul's huge contract and opens space for Shai Guy to play PG.  Shai - Morris - Gallo - Adams is a pretty nice quartet.  Ferguson - Shroder - Portis as bench guys.

Knix would have:
CP3 - RJB - Knox - Randle - Mitch
ELf/Franc - Dot - Taj
CP3 with Randle in the Blake Griffin role and Mitch as the DeAndre C.  It would help us evaluate our yute playing with a quality PG.
Maybe Paul could mentor Jr. Smith.

Knix would have a rudder.
I'm sort of ambivalent about it.

I'd rather keep Morris, give them Randle and let them keep their pick.  CP3 - RJB - Knox - Morris - Mitch looks like a pretty good balance of scoring and D.  But then you need to plan on re-signing Morris.  Looks like a fairly competitive team.  Say 6th in the East, assuming KI & KD return reasonably healthy next year.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #9734 on: December 28, 2019, 05:51:20 PM »

Of course always a yes to Chris Paul if he is on board with it
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