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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 21708 times)

luee

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1395 on: October 22, 2018, 11:42:59 PM »

If its a rebuild (tank) year by all means go with Frank and Lance. The team can actually score 113 with those two goose eggs in the starting line-up, very entertaining.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1396 on: Today at 04:49:00 AM »

There you go, a solid game from Zonja.
Sorry Kam, but it's dumb to say Zonja should be gone after the season, without seeing how he does during the season.

I only saw the last 3 mins and some highlights.
Zonja had some nice fakes and drives, got to his spots and got his shot off.  Looked comfortable.  Something to build on.  Wally said Mario played pretty good D on Anti-Greek.

So was Tim mostly on Middleton?
Tim's statline looks allright, but I saw Tim shoot a late airball 3,  he fouled out, also a game worst -25 (Mario a - 14).  Though none of that will affect his PER (#heh)

Franc 5 assists, but just 5 Pts.
Baker 5 stitches in 1 minute of play.
Must be leading the league in stitches per minute.
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lesterdog

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1397 on: Today at 11:29:21 AM »


So was Tim mostly on Middleton?


Middleton embarrassed most of the Knick lineup at one point or another ...
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Pharoah

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1398 on: Today at 06:19:50 PM »

Well...that Bucks game had my favorite offensive sequences of the early season. There was real ball movement, players not settling for jumpers and the team erased a couple of serious deficits...all with a second unit that threw out the isolations. The Frank/Dotson combo was on point, helped along by a Hezonja's spite for Clarence Gaines; Allonzo Trier buying-in; and the continued quality play of Noah Vonleh. The starting unit had flashes as well, with Trey Burke blacking out in the third quarter to hide three subpar quarters of play; Tim Hardaway is still not as efficient as we'd like but he's adding some assists in the past two; and Enes Kanter is still pumping out double-doubles even though his pick and roll defense is alarming to me. Fiz is gonna have to figure out how to make this mixture work, but he may have stumbled on a way to get his offense less stagnant all thanks to Ron Baker concussing himself like a Will Ferrell stunt-double.

Frank: Let's start with the most polarizing performance of the night. Frank Ntilikina led the Knicks in minutes with 35 but contributed very little scoring; 2/6 for 5 points. But Ron Baker's face first journey into Noah Vonleh's elbow also saw Frank shift to the primary ball handler of the second unit where he tallied 5 assists to just 1 TO and reminded everybody just how good he is defending the point of attack. The offense for Frank came on a variety of simple swings and pick and roll kickouts that took advantage of Dotson and Hezonja's offensive skillsets. The sequences without an iso-scoring floor general led to some of the best teamwork all season and as much as we want to see Frank take the scoring reins; I don't want that to happen at the expense of the Knicks offensive system continuing to look so stagnant. Equally important though, Frank's defense was really impressive last night in spite of logging no steals or blocks. When his defensive assignment can't knock Frank off balance with their size, he's close to a shut down presence already. I'd like to see him attack the paint more and pull the three pointer even if the defender is starting to close out, but his case for being a PG was laid out in how smooth the offense flowed when he finally got an opportunity.

THJ: Tim Hardaway Jr is always going to take some crazy shots in a game. But he also has a knack for making momentum baskets that come with the zero conscious shooting. 10/23 from the field and 3/9 from three for 24 points, 3 assists and 2 rebounds for the Knicks top scorer. He's playing himself into a volume role that I think he could be better than with just some restraint and more mindful passing. That's twice now that he's logged 3 assists in a game and that's with him settling for long contested jumpers early in the shot clock on multiple occasions. If he changes those to moments where he resets, the opportunity to pick up an extra assist or get a better shot off will come with it. Defensively, he like everyone else struggled to even contain Khris Middleton and if there's one starter that goes under the screen too often...

Kanter: Speaking of poor pick and roll habits; I've already gone off on this hole in Kanter's game after the Nets. Kanter just doesn't know how to stop teams from scoring in these situations and everybody knows it. The Bucks offense looked different when Kanter was out there compared to Vonleh. That said, Kanter is providing enough offense and rebounding that when he does piece together a couple of nice defensive plays in a row you notice it. 14 points and 13 rebounds in 32 minutes on 6/12 from the field. The Knicks are getting killed on the boards and he's keeping it from getting completely out of hand. Having the big man work in the post when the team needs to settle down is big too, because their other reliable offensive player is Tim Hardaway with the shot selection of Stacy Patton from Eddie. That said, at the end of close games I'm not sure you can afford to have a pick and roll liability in there. One wrinkle that does warrant mention; Kanter's shooting from midrange was really good last night. The Bucks gave him space and he took advantage which could be really helpful moving forward both to get Robinson/Vonleh extra minutes at the four (covering for Kanter's poor rim protection) and for opening lanes to guys like Hardaway and Trier.

Burke: I was getting ready to DOG Trey Burke after that first half. It was his worst defensive performance of the season imo and watching the offense flow with he and THJ off the court had me ready to go in. But then he found Trey.I. form in the third quarter and made that hard for me to justify. Burke is a microwave, who exploded for 15 points in the third quarter on 7/10 shooting to bring the Knicks back from a 19 point deficit to a neck and neck battle. For the night he pumped in 19 pts, 5 rebounds and 4 assists to 3 TO's in 22 minutes. That's a ton of production in short time and I want to see improvement in the Assist to TO ratio, but the third quarter explosion is why you get him out there for 20 minutes a night. He can be lightning in a bottle under the right circumstances. Like Kanter, there are points in the game where I just don't trust him out there but when the Knicks are looking for scoring...he's always worth a look.

Lance: Fan poll...what stood out to you from Lance's performance last night? If you said absolutely nothing, I don't blame you. 18 minutes for 4 points and 4 rebounds in a game where Giannis was too good for even Lance's typical intangibles to shine.

Dotson: Damyean Dotson has been flashing scoring ability and pure shooting since late last season but it has been frustratingly inconsistent. Even in summer league it felt like he could do so much more than he was for entire games. But he looked more assertive in preseason and that has continued into his first two appearances of the season. Last night he punctuated a 14 point, 8 rebound performance with a rabid defensive effort that saw him all over the floor. 32 minutes 5/13 from the field and 4/8 from three with a pair of steals to round out the night for Dotson. His willingness to pull that three is huge and his scoring ability gives him an immediate edge over Ron Baker as a value. He also showed good rebounding effort throughout his rookie campaign and that translated to 8 boards against the Bucks. For a team that's short on rebounders and three point shooting, he's got a chance to consume a role with plenty of opportunities to produce.

Super Mario: Clarence Gaines pulled some Phil Jackson woo woo magic; publicly criticizing a player who responded with his best performance of the young season. Mario played his best defense of the season from both an effort and focus perspective. He still made mistakes and gave up some baskets but more than made up for it on the other end. 8/16 and 2/5 from three for Mario to produce 18 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 30 minutes. Offensively it was a combination of decisiveness and being willing to take what the defense gave him that got Mario going for most of the night. It's notable that he did slip into head scratching territory on some heat check chucks that even Tim Hardaway would apologize for taking. But credit Fiz for benching him for effort last game and Clarence Gaines for making sure we all knew it.

Vonleh: As a sucker for defense, I have to shout out Noah Vonleh who has either been really good on that end or just looks great conflated with Enes Kanter. Noah Vonleh was willing to challenge Giannis at the rack repeatedly and that's a scary circumstance. When he found himself on an island off a pick and roll switch, he dug in and gave good effort to mixed results. He had the Knicks only 2 blocks logged on the stat sheet. For a team lacking rim protection, he deserved a spotlight and some orchestral music. 11 points and 5 boards in 19 minutes for Vonleh who went 3/5 from the field and got to the line 6 times. As good as Enes Kanter has been in certain areas, I'd love to see Vonleh eat into Kanter's time a bit more. This kid turned 23 in August; is athletic as hell, plays within himself and I repeat...HE'S THE ONLY INTERIOR PRESENCE ON DEFENSE THAT FIZDALE HAS.

Trier: Allonzo Trier saw Dotson and Hezonja going off; let them do their work and set out to impact the game elsewhere...I loved it. 17 minutes just 4 points on 3 attempts but he added 4 assists with no TO's and also played some defense. Trier didn't let lack of attempts get to him, he actually helped spark other guys. He didn't force things to get himself going or slack defensively because someone missed him when he was open. The team mentality of that second unit was refreshing and the fact that they didn't need Trier to bail them out partially speaks to Trier making the cut or extra pass that makes things easier for other people at the expense of him getting to isolate. He'll need to find balance, of course. He's too good a scorer to only put in 4 points on a night; but that he can have a game where the shooting and dribbling takes a backseat to the passing and defending is a testament to potential that goes beyond typical scoring wing roles.

Baker: In one minute Ron Baker managed to tally -5 in +/-, 5 stitches to the forward and one full sprint into a teammate's elbow. Dude tried to tank the screen like he forgot he was on offense and that's literally all he did on the court.

Fiz: Fiz stuck with the hot hands and it meant the rotation tightened up but continuity looked really good. He kinda stumbled into....Baker stumbled into Frank becoming the second unit primary ball handler, but Fiz should get some credit for sticking with it. There was a timeout late where I thought the Knicks were riding momentum and Fiz shoulda let them keep going. Timmy had just taken and made a wild three pointer but it was part of a 5-0 run with back to back stops and the play out of that TO was ugly again. This is sorta me nitpicking though because a lot of Fizdale's moves worked out. Dotson got a much bigger role and rewarded his coach. The same is true of Hezonja. Everyone was working hard even after going down 19 points on the road to a top 4 Eastern Conference team. With the roster limitations, I can forgive Fizdale relying heavily on Timmy and Kanter early on. I HOPE that he'll slowly dilute their touches and time with looks for younger guys; but I get why he and team are relying so much on those two. I DO want to monitor his late game TO's and specifically the plays he's drawing up out of them. It's waaaay too early to panic or even make a bold claim, but I've been disappointed at what he's drawn up to get us late baskets in close games. Oddly enough, I've thought earlier in the game we've come out of time outs with some nifty movement to get guys good looks though. So idk, we do these every game to look for patterns and a third time would be a charm there.

Lastly: If the Knicks are going to pick top five, these are the kinds of losses I won't mind. The youth balled out and Fiz let the players that did the most effective work continue to play regardless of age. Hard work was rewarded both on the scoreboard and with coaching decisions. The message to the team was clear, if you earn minutes you'll get them. It's painful to lose of course and especially with how the Bucks closed so strong while the Knicks floundered. But that the youngest team in the NBA has forced the Celtics and Bucks to FIGHT and dig in late in games places the Knicks ahead of where I figured they would be right now. None of the young guys have been very consistent except for maybe Vonleh (who's been in the league a while himself); but there have been flashes of upside from Knox, Frank, Dotson, Hezonja, Vonleh, Trier and I'd even add Burke. You can see potential to fit into NBA rotation roles for all of these guys. Mitch seemed poised until his ankle injury too. We're already seeing some of the tools necessary to place around KP; likely another draft pick; and potentially another high paid free agent (Khris Middleton's audition was impressive). Don't get discouraged by the W/L, don't get too high or low on the kids and let's enjoy this ride.
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chipstern

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« Reply #1399 on: Today at 06:35:43 PM »

Well...that Bucks game had my favorite offensive sequences of the early season. There was real ball movement, players not settling for jumpers and the team erased a couple of serious deficits...all with a second unit that threw out the isolations. The Frank/Dotson combo was on point, helped along by a Hezonja's spite for Clarence Gaines; Allonzo Trier buying-in; and the continued quality play of Noah Vonleh. The starting unit had flashes as well, with Trey Burke blacking out in the third quarter to hide three subpar quarters of play; Tim Hardaway is still not as efficient as we'd like but he's adding some assists in the past two; and Enes Kanter is still pumping out double-doubles even though his pick and roll defense is alarming to me. Fiz is gonna have to figure out how to make this mixture work, but he may have stumbled on a way to get his offense less stagnant all thanks to Ron Baker concussing himself like a Will Ferrell stunt-double.

Frank: Let's start with the most polarizing performance of the night. Frank Ntilikina led the Knicks in minutes with 35 but contributed very little scoring; 2/6 for 5 points. But Ron Baker's face first journey into Noah Vonleh's elbow also saw Frank shift to the primary ball handler of the second unit where he tallied 5 assists to just 1 TO and reminded everybody just how good he is defending the point of attack. The offense for Frank came on a variety of simple swings and pick and roll kickouts that took advantage of Dotson and Hezonja's offensive skillsets. The sequences without an iso-scoring floor general led to some of the best teamwork all season and as much as we want to see Frank take the scoring reins; I don't want that to happen at the expense of the Knicks offensive system continuing to look so stagnant. Equally important though, Frank's defense was really impressive last night in spite of logging no steals or blocks. When his defensive assignment can't knock Frank off balance with their size, he's close to a shut down presence already. I'd like to see him attack the paint more and pull the three pointer even if the defender is starting to close out, but his case for being a PG was laid out in how smooth the offense flowed when he finally got an opportunity.

THJ: Tim Hardaway Jr is always going to take some crazy shots in a game. But he also has a knack for making momentum baskets that come with the zero conscious shooting. 10/23 from the field and 3/9 from three for 24 points, 3 assists and 2 rebounds for the Knicks top scorer. He's playing himself into a volume role that I think he could be better than with just some restraint and more mindful passing. That's twice now that he's logged 3 assists in a game and that's with him settling for long contested jumpers early in the shot clock on multiple occasions. If he changes those to moments where he resets, the opportunity to pick up an extra assist or get a better shot off will come with it. Defensively, he like everyone else struggled to even contain Khris Middleton and if there's one starter that goes under the screen too often...

Kanter: Speaking of poor pick and roll habits; I've already gone off on this hole in Kanter's game after the Nets. Kanter just doesn't know how to stop teams from scoring in these situations and everybody knows it. The Bucks offense looked different when Kanter was out there compared to Vonleh. That said, Kanter is providing enough offense and rebounding that when he does piece together a couple of nice defensive plays in a row you notice it. 14 points and 13 rebounds in 32 minutes on 6/12 from the field. The Knicks are getting killed on the boards and he's keeping it from getting completely out of hand. Having the big man work in the post when the team needs to settle down is big too, because their other reliable offensive player is Tim Hardaway with the shot selection of Stacy Patton from Eddie. That said, at the end of close games I'm not sure you can afford to have a pick and roll liability in there. One wrinkle that does warrant mention; Kanter's shooting from midrange was really good last night. The Bucks gave him space and he took advantage which could be really helpful moving forward both to get Robinson/Vonleh extra minutes at the four (covering for Kanter's poor rim protection) and for opening lanes to guys like Hardaway and Trier.

Burke: I was getting ready to DOG Trey Burke after that first half. It was his worst defensive performance of the season imo and watching the offense flow with he and THJ off the court had me ready to go in. But then he found Trey.I. form in the third quarter and made that hard for me to justify. Burke is a microwave, who exploded for 15 points in the third quarter on 7/10 shooting to bring the Knicks back from a 19 point deficit to a neck and neck battle. For the night he pumped in 19 pts, 5 rebounds and 4 assists to 3 TO's in 22 minutes. That's a ton of production in short time and I want to see improvement in the Assist to TO ratio, but the third quarter explosion is why you get him out there for 20 minutes a night. He can be lightning in a bottle under the right circumstances. Like Kanter, there are points in the game where I just don't trust him out there but when the Knicks are looking for scoring...he's always worth a look.

Lance: Fan poll...what stood out to you from Lance's performance last night? If you said absolutely nothing, I don't blame you. 18 minutes for 4 points and 4 rebounds in a game where Giannis was too good for even Lance's typical intangibles to shine.

Dotson: Damyean Dotson has been flashing scoring ability and pure shooting since late last season but it has been frustratingly inconsistent. Even in summer league it felt like he could do so much more than he was for entire games. But he looked more assertive in preseason and that has continued into his first two appearances of the season. Last night he punctuated a 14 point, 8 rebound performance with a rabid defensive effort that saw him all over the floor. 32 minutes 5/13 from the field and 4/8 from three with a pair of steals to round out the night for Dotson. His willingness to pull that three is huge and his scoring ability gives him an immediate edge over Ron Baker as a value. He also showed good rebounding effort throughout his rookie campaign and that translated to 8 boards against the Bucks. For a team that's short on rebounders and three point shooting, he's got a chance to consume a role with plenty of opportunities to produce.

Super Mario: Clarence Gaines pulled some Phil Jackson woo woo magic; publicly criticizing a player who responded with his best performance of the young season. Mario played his best defense of the season from both an effort and focus perspective. He still made mistakes and gave up some baskets but more than made up for it on the other end. 8/16 and 2/5 from three for Mario to produce 18 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 steals in 30 minutes. Offensively it was a combination of decisiveness and being willing to take what the defense gave him that got Mario going for most of the night. It's notable that he did slip into head scratching territory on some heat check chucks that even Tim Hardaway would apologize for taking. But credit Fiz for benching him for effort last game and Clarence Gaines for making sure we all knew it.

Vonleh: As a sucker for defense, I have to shout out Noah Vonleh who has either been really good on that end or just looks great conflated with Enes Kanter. Noah Vonleh was willing to challenge Giannis at the rack repeatedly and that's a scary circumstance. When he found himself on an island off a pick and roll switch, he dug in and gave good effort to mixed results. He had the Knicks only 2 blocks logged on the stat sheet. For a team lacking rim protection, he deserved a spotlight and some orchestral music. 11 points and 5 boards in 19 minutes for Vonleh who went 3/5 from the field and got to the line 6 times. As good as Enes Kanter has been in certain areas, I'd love to see Vonleh eat into Kanter's time a bit more. This kid turned 23 in August; is athletic as hell, plays within himself and I repeat...HE'S THE ONLY INTERIOR PRESENCE ON DEFENSE THAT FIZDALE HAS.

Trier: Allonzo Trier saw Dotson and Hezonja going off; let them do their work and set out to impact the game elsewhere...I loved it. 17 minutes just 4 points on 3 attempts but he added 4 assists with no TO's and also played some defense. Trier didn't let lack of attempts get to him, he actually helped spark other guys. He didn't force things to get himself going or slack defensively because someone missed him when he was open. The team mentality of that second unit was refreshing and the fact that they didn't need Trier to bail them out partially speaks to Trier making the cut or extra pass that makes things easier for other people at the expense of him getting to isolate. He'll need to find balance, of course. He's too good a scorer to only put in 4 points on a night; but that he can have a game where the shooting and dribbling takes a backseat to the passing and defending is a testament to potential that goes beyond typical scoring wing roles.

Baker: In one minute Ron Baker managed to tally -5 in +/-, 5 stitches to the forward and one full sprint into a teammate's elbow. Dude tried to tank the screen like he forgot he was on offense and that's literally all he did on the court.

Fiz: Fiz stuck with the hot hands and it meant the rotation tightened up but continuity looked really good. He kinda stumbled into....Baker stumbled into Frank becoming the second unit primary ball handler, but Fiz should get some credit for sticking with it. There was a timeout late where I thought the Knicks were riding momentum and Fiz shoulda let them keep going. Timmy had just taken and made a wild three pointer but it was part of a 5-0 run with back to back stops and the play out of that TO was ugly again. This is sorta me nitpicking though because a lot of Fizdale's moves worked out. Dotson got a much bigger role and rewarded his coach. The same is true of Hezonja. Everyone was working hard even after going down 19 points on the road to a top 4 Eastern Conference team. With the roster limitations, I can forgive Fizdale relying heavily on Timmy and Kanter early on. I HOPE that he'll slowly dilute their touches and time with looks for younger guys; but I get why he and team are relying so much on those two. I DO want to monitor his late game TO's and specifically the plays he's drawing up out of them. It's waaaay too early to panic or even make a bold claim, but I've been disappointed at what he's drawn up to get us late baskets in close games. Oddly enough, I've thought earlier in the game we've come out of time outs with some nifty movement to get guys good looks though. So idk, we do these every game to look for patterns and a third time would be a charm there.

Lastly: If the Knicks are going to pick top five, these are the kinds of losses I won't mind. The youth balled out and Fiz let the players that did the most effective work continue to play regardless of age. Hard work was rewarded both on the scoreboard and with coaching decisions. The message to the team was clear, if you earn minutes you'll get them. It's painful to lose of course and especially with how the Bucks closed so strong while the Knicks floundered. But that the youngest team in the NBA has forced the Celtics and Bucks to FIGHT and dig in late in games places the Knicks ahead of where I figured they would be right now. None of the young guys have been very consistent except for maybe Vonleh (who's been in the league a while himself); but there have been flashes of upside from Knox, Frank, Dotson, Hezonja, Vonleh, Trier and I'd even add Burke. You can see potential to fit into NBA rotation roles for all of these guys. Mitch seemed poised until his ankle injury too. We're already seeing some of the tools necessary to place around KP; likely another draft pick; and potentially another high paid free agent (Khris Middleton's audition was impressive). Don't get discouraged by the W/L, don't get too high or low on the kids and let's enjoy this ride.

A learned, reasoned, witty analysis as always.

A refreshing change from self-absorbed, reactionary fatwas.

You have my proxy, dude. 

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kiidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1400 on: Today at 10:37:30 PM »

OK lets hear the guesses

5 Knick players with PER above 15.0

7 players above 10.0  (OUCH)
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #1401 on: Today at 10:50:11 PM »

Vonleh Kanter Hardaway Burke and probably Trier



Whoops! It was Dotson in 5th. Forgot how much the kid rebounds. Soooo much better than Baker in every aspect of basketball. Trier and Mario are the two in low teens.
« Last Edit: Today at 10:53:06 PM by facilitatorn »
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chipstern

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NAGELIAN Alert
« Reply #1402 on: Today at 11:35:47 PM »


So was Tim mostly on Middleton?


Middleton embarrassed most of the Knick lineup at one point or another ...

This 6'8" SF sharpshooter has a player option in the summer of 2019.  Presently making 13 million. 

Certainly made a case for himself to be considered among options to accept Knicks cap dollars.
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