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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kidcarter8]

Yeah....

Fish had his limitations, still does as he coaches womens ball

But at the time it looked like a pretty decent gamble rather than go with the tried and true.

I'd also think you may not have the entire story on Thibs/Phil and the job opening -

but then again - 4 days before the opener who fucking cares about Phil, other than to feel that its nice to see another Knick (Burks) do good things in 18.

[bodiddley]

I hope Thibs doesn't go as vet heavy as kiid anticipates.  But that's his MO.  Also big minutes to starters and not play too many guys.  8-9 man rotation at his other stops.  Though we have lots of yute and guys who need minutes.  So 9-10 man likely, I'd think.

I wouldn't read much at all into pre-season with regards to Knox and Franc and anyone else (except IQ -- it is a much bigger deal for rooks). 

I think some teams would be interested in adding Franc, a young defensive combo G.  But I don't think they'd offer much, it's not like he's A Very Bradley.  I think they're more looking to see if they can pick our pocket of a guy we didn't develop, who might be better on his 2nd contract which should be reasonable.  That is, teams think Franc might be an okay rotation guy for 10-15 minutes when they need some defense at G.  While taking a flyer that he could improve his PG chops as he matures.

I'd start Mitch.  But given his foul troubles, and Noel not a big minute guy anyway, the 2nd unit is fine.  Not much difference between them right now, so it's a matter of keeping folks focused.  One positive is that it gets Mitch matched with ObiT and QuickenLoans, and Knox.  So gets all our yute (except RJB, who could join them at times) developing chemistry together.  That I like.

I'd balance vets and yute in my units more by starting RJB and Mitch.  While having Quickie, Topping, Knox playing with Rivers (/Bullox) and Nawlins.  But I can see some benefit of Thibs presumed approach.  Vets set the tone and 2nd unit yute learn to work together.  Though I think some games that method is going to falter and look bad.  But any combination of players will go south at times anyway, as we don't have chemistry, have lots of young guys, mostly journeymen vets, no stars, etc.

[kidcarter8]

In time second unit could have three vets

Noel, Bullock, Rivers

Lots of options.  Knox has become a wild card.

[facilitatorn]

It’s pretty open as to who starts and who subs between Bullock and Burks. Both will have big roles, as will Noel. Rivers has to play his way into the rotation which is by no means a lock.

[bodiddley]

I thought Rivers had a leg up in that trio, in that he can provide some extra playmaking/ballhandling which the Knix need.  But IQ's emergence might squeeze Au Revoir's minutes.

Bullox is a steady customer who doesn't need the ball and makes an effort on D.  Burks is a gunner and we need shooting.  If Quicks is a 15-20 min guy, Rivers might be left out.  But there will be injuries and funks.

[chipstern]

A nice mix of puppies and veterans.

Some of the pups on the upswing, others getting one last chance to make a case for themselves. 

A number of interesting narratives. 

Quickley's seeming emergence tossing the whole back court seeding into disarray. 

My guess?  How we come out of the gate?  I seem to be in alignment with BoD.  Are we in alignment with THIBS? 

Robinson-Randle-RJ-Burks-Peyton

Noel-Toppin-Knox-Bullock-Quickley

Smith-Ntilikina-Rivers

Spellman-Brazdeikis

One would think Burks and Bullock taking turns in the first unit at SG and SF

One would think Noel and Robinson toggling/interchangeable in the starting five, and likewise, Coach liking the chemistry and energy he got from the all-pups lineup of Robinson-Toppin-Knox-Barrett-Quickley coming off the bench and trying to take it the other team's second unit. 

Likewise...the emergence of Quickley has created a real scrum among Rivers-Peyton-Smith-Ntilikina.

If there were fans in the stands, they would be screaming for High IQ. 

Our depth is interesting. 

No one really stands out as a FRANCHISE PLAYER, like Durant and Irving. 

So it is going to have to be a COLLECTIVE TEAM EFFORT. 

All hands on deck..team...TEAM.

So little prep time, no summer league, NO SUMMER, no month long preseason, so the first month should see a lot of mixing and matching, what have we got, which combos work. 

I really do not give a fuck about vets versus youth, the shuffling of the deck, the inevitable losses, because we do seem to have a bar which will be raised, a standard which will be met, and accountability which will be enforced. 

ALL HANDS ON DECK. Bring on the Pacers.  A worthy and daunting challenge for Game ONE. 

[kidcarter8]

Likewise...the emergence of Quickley has created a real scrum among Rivers-Peyton-Smith-Ntilikina.



Nahhh, man - come on

You had to see that Payton won the starting PG slot

Quickley's emergence - should positives continue - gives less reason to give any thought to rushing Rivers back from what can be a nagging injury if not allowed to heal.

Shouldnt affect Rivers initially.  Only his own sloppy play or further injury would cost a rotation slot.

Is there more of a chance we go 11 deep a lot of nights, witch the added effective players?

YES, despite Thibs not usually liking to.

[facilitatorn]

Payton could certainly help his cause by hitting a few outside shots.

[chipstern]

Payton could certainly help his cause by hitting a few outside shots.

Hitting outside shots....

Could see this coming a mile away.

https://nypost.com/2020/12/19/knicks-waiving-michael-kidd-gilchrist/

Kidd is gone...

[facilitatorn]

Iggy showed his worth.

So it’s

Mitch Noel Spellman
Randle Toppin
Bullock Knox Iggy
Barrett Burks Frank Rivers
Quickley Payton DSJ

Harper Pinson

Looks a lot more like an NBA team than what we’ve been trotting out in recent seasons.

[facilitatorn]

This year’s whole rookie class is damn fun. Less a weak draft than a deep draft of quirky players.

[bodiddley]

Looks a lot more like an NBA team than what we’ve been trotting out in recent seasons.

Basically similar to what we had last year with the addition of two solid-looking rooks.

It is a deep and interesting rook class. 
Was a good year to have a 2nd 1st rounder #27.  #23. #25.
Give the NYK credit for that (even if it might have just been dumb luck).

Toppings, Avdija, Haiburton, Vassal -- I think it was hard to go wrong.
Kira Lewis or Saddiq Bey might prove out to be Top 10 talents as well.

The 2nd round looks interesting as well.

[chipstern]

Looks a lot more like an NBA team than what we’ve been trotting out in recent seasons.

Basically similar to what we had last year with the addition of two solid-looking rooks.

It is a deep and interesting rook class. 
Was a good year to have a 2nd 1st rounder #27.  #23. #25.
Give the NYK credit for that (even if it might have just been dumb luck).

Toppings, Avdija, Haiburton, Vassal -- I think it was hard to go wrong.
Kira Lewis or Saddiq Bey might prove out to be Top 10 talents as well.

The 2nd round looks interesting as well.

You THINK? 

Randle >   ____________ [Toppin]

Portis >  Noels

Gibson > Spellman

Morris >  ______________ [Quickley]

Ellington > Burke

Payton > Rivers

Think it is worth noting that I was not at the time an enthusiast for the Knicks-Clippers Trade.

Our take? 

Moe Harkless, Issuf Sanon, Clippers' 2020 first-round pick, 2020 second-round pick (via Detroit), Swap Rights with the Clippers on their 2021 first-round pick.

I wasn't a Harkless enthusiast, but I grew to respect him during his time here.  Like some, would like to have perhaps kept him in a 3&D role, but while Bullock doesn't have Moe's length at 6'7" and abilllity to match up with fours, he has good defensive instincts and size at 6'6" and is a far better free throw shooter and legit threat as a 3-point shooter.  Harkless purportedly had some better financial offers than Miami, but I think he made the right choiced.  He is tailor made for the Spoelstra/Riley Culture.

Now that #27 first rounder and our second rounder turned into the #23 pick, and from there into #25 & #33, and so far High IQ is looking pretty damn good as a scoring point/combo guard, doubly ironic when you figure that the Clippers are rather thin at PG, not that Patrick Beverley and Lou Williams are chopped liver, but having been forced to pony up Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and multiple trade assets in the Paul George trade, well, Quickley would look better in a Clippers jersey than a Knicks.  Still, Morris has fit in. 

So, we get High IQ, and Detroit's 2020-2021 second rounder, which might turn out to be an okay asset, though they have some talent on that team...enough to be a playoff team?  Mmmmmmm....

And we get the option of swapping our #1 for the Clippers, likely not an asset, but injuries happen, do they not? 

Oddly enough, the draft rights to Ukranian PG Issuf Sanon, while not as yummy as the inclusion of Landry Shamet which we were pushing for, proved useful when we signed Austin Rivers to that three year-$10 million deal.  Holding Austin's Bird rights, Houston signed him to that contract than passed him on to the Knicks along with the rights to Sergio Llull, Tadija Dragicevic and Alex Hervelle for Rivers, thus giving the Rockets a promising young PG asset as oppossed to NADA, whereas in this way, Rivers did not count against our cap space.  Sergio Llull is a 33 year old Real Madrid PG.  Ever coming here?  Mmmmmmmmmmm....

I went through all of this excruciating detail to counter the notion which Bo floated that we pretty much lined up under Rose-WWW-Perrin-Aller-Perry much as we did under Mills-Perry.   

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....I think not. 

POSTSCRIPT: Under Pandemic Conditions, every player on the 15 Man Roster is active and eligible to play

So...

C: Robinson, Noel
PF-C: Randle, Spellman
SF-PF: Toppin, Knox, Brazdeikis
SG-SF: Barrett, Bullock, Burks, Ntilikina
PG-SG: Payton, Quickley, Rivers, Smith

Yes, I know it is something of a stretch to count Julius as a C, Toppin as a SF, Knox and Brazdeikis as PFs, but we saw glimpses of Thibs looking them over as such, situationally in the post-Small Ball Epoch.  Even Obi for a hot minute.  And hey, who was our starting center last year?  Taj Gibson.  Is Iggy...Draymond Green?  Not fucking hardly, but both are meaty 6'6", and Brazdeikis is closer to a 3-4, than a 3-2.  And if we could get away, for argument's sake, Randle-Knox-Bullock-Burks-_______.  And Frank?  With Payton, Quickley, Rivers and Smith all jousting for minutes at the POINT, Frank might find himself playing more of the Bruce Bowen 3-2 defensive specialist, save that BB was taller at 6'7" and turned into one of the more lethal three point snipers in NBA history.

So all I'm saying, Bo, is that this roster, lacking a putative SUPERMAN, alas, seems far more interesting and better balanced between young veterans, and young, Younger, YOUNGEST puppies...

Giving Tom Thibodeau a very interesting set of Crayolas to work with. 

[bodiddley]

Just pointing out that folks were also excited last year about adding Morris, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Bullocks.
And of course our prized rook RJB, who had an up-and-down season and some rough sledding at times.

I sort of look at it as Topping is in the Portis role of last year. 
Backing up Randle, while he's here.  Long-term ObiT is much better than Wild Man Portis.
More inside game and fewer bad shots, both not much at D.

Noel is in the Taj chair.  I like the Nawlins pickup.

Morris better than Burks or anyone we added this year.
We loaded up more on SG's this year when it was PF's last year.
Rivers an upgrade on Ellington.

The big wildcard is Quickly. 
If IQ can play Point for 20 mins a game and uptempo things and shoot, then we have a whole different team dynamic.

Thibs and Quicks might be the biggest changes...

[chipstern]

Just pointing out that folks were also excited last year about adding Morris, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Bullocks.
And of course our prized rook RJB, who had an up-and-down season and some rough sledding at times.

I sort of look at it as Topping is in the Portis role of last year. 
Backing up Randle, while he's here.  Long-term ObiT is much better than Wild Man Portis.
More inside game and fewer bad shots, both not much at D.

Noel is in the Taj chair.  I like the Nawlins pickup.

Morris better than Burks or anyone we added this year.
We loaded up more on SG's this year when it was PF's last year.
Rivers an upgrade on Ellington.

The big wildcard is Quickly. 
If IQ can play Point for 20 mins a game and uptempo things and shoot, then we have a whole different team dynamic.

Thibs and Quicks might be the biggest changes...

How long are you going to keep beating the received wisdom that Obi is hopeless on D.  Of a piece with the Okoro cannot shoot narrative.  The young man is freak athelete in transition and it makes sense for him to come up under Randle in Thibs system...woth noting, again, that while Randle notched 8 assists the other night, Obi had 4.  He has not yet even displayed faith in his jumper...the notion that Obi is an eternal loser on defense is NONSENSE...think Thibs would've been on board for a defensive loser.  Christ. 

Morris....better than anyone we signed. 

Better player?

Or

Better fit?

I loved MM, a fierce competitor, an outside threat, but he was something of a ball stopper, and just turned 31.   Not mention that his presence robbed Kevin Knox of a developmental year. 

But netted us Quickley, so all is forgiven.