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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kidcarter8]

Knox went 6-7 on 3's but had 1 board and 1 assist.


Whew - thanks - I again feel vindicated (no worries - Pacers will add to it as well)

[bodiddley]

I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Burks/Rivers get tossed in a mid-season deal for Randle.  NYK would likely rather part with one of them than Knox/Franc.  With Burks/Rivers/Bollocks, we have one surplus vet wing.

Not saying a Randle trade will go down.  But we'll be listening, and partly depends on ObiT's readiness to start (I'd be fine with Knox & Obi as our PF tandem).  I'm sure we're willing to part with Franc.  But sweetening a Randle deal with a vet scorer makes more sense for us.

In the supposed Randle for Hield deal, it makes sense for Sacto to get an SG back.  Burks, Rivers or Franc.  Burks played the last 13 games of 2019 for the Kings then left as a FA.

Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT.  Has never played with a quality PG.  Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.

[bodiddley]

Knox did show some passing ability in pre-season.
That terrific outlet to RJB.
One play in G1 v DET, Obi pushed the ball in transition, hit Knox in the corner, who faked his man, drive to the paint going right and passed back to ObiT on the baseline left for a jam.  Beautiful. 

Add a little passing and boarding chops to Knox and we won't have to rely solely on whether his 3 is falling or not.  And his 3 form looks good, btw.
I just want to see Knox in the mix more.  Not passive. 

I do like how ObiT is good at working the baseline, relocating and letting switching defenses lose track of him.  When rooks utilize the baseline, they do a nice job of expanding the court and not getting in the way of vets and set plays.  It's smart court usage by a rook, and especially one like Toppings who can go over the top on ya.

[kidcarter8]

Unsurety of decision somehow hit OT between Games 1 and 4.  Cant really understand why

For instance when he catches in 3 point land - it is catch, look then maybe shoot.  Never a good thing.

[kidcarter8]

Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT. Has never played with a quality PG. Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.

Stop with this already

You shoot consistently well on open looks or you dont.  Hopefully things turn for Knox off the promising 2 games.  Does he get the 22 minutes I projected with AR out?  We'll see.  But if he gets his looks and shoots poorly vs Pacers and the few games after that, dont blame his teammates, please.

[luee]

Luee, Knox is just 21.  He's 1.5 years younger than ObiT. Has never played with a quality PG. Has had to deal with a revolving door of coaches and players.  Still a pup, learning and developing.

Stop with this already

You shoot consistently well on open looks or you dont.  Hopefully things turn for Knox off the promising 2 games.  Does he get the 22 minutes I projected with AR out?  We'll see.  But if he gets his looks and shoots poorly vs Pacers and the few games after that, dont blame his teammates, please.

He regressed terribly in year two, never a good sign. From 12 to an anemic 6 ppg. Does not like to be muscled.

[bodiddley]

You get more open looks, better looks, the ball delivered in the pocket, knowing when/where your shots will come from, etc. when you have an orchestrator and steady system.  Is this actually in dispute?

Yeah, I'd have Knox watch clips of Tatum and Melo taking it strong to the rim.  Knox has a way of hunching down and making himself smaller, gets blocked a lot that way on layups.  I want to see Knox crunch some people (on either end).

I can see Knox as a solid starter, even borderline all-star down the road.  The tools are there.  Just need to put things together, improve incrementally, adjust his mindset some, develop more confidence.  I think half of the challenge is mental, which is encouraging to me.  Caveat: it might not transpire for 5+ years out. Fort Knox is only 21.

I think everyone on the Knix -- Mitch, RJB, Knox, ObiT, Randle, our vet SG trio -- would look better playing next to a quality starting-level PG.
It's been the Knix torn achilles for a long time.

[facilitatorn]

Here are the essential parts of how we can be successful in today’s NBA, where your point of attack guy must force his man over a screen and be threat enough with his man on his back to cause a power play everywhere else on the court.

Point of Attack: Quickley Burks (maybe rivers when he is healthy)
Sniper: Bullock Knox
Skill guy w suspect shot: RJ Payton
PF: Randle Toppin
Agile rim guy: Mitch Noel

Everyone else, Frank, DSJ, Iggy, and Spellman have to ready themselves to fill one or more of these roles effectively. Their times will surely come this season.

With the Quickley, Bullock, RJ, Randle, Mitch group you have your power frontcourt, Physical wings, and your sniper PG. Noel, Toppin, Knox, Burks, Payton as second unit means your subs at big positions are both more mobile with more range than the guys they go in for while giving up size. The perimeter subs can keep the chain going with Burks putting a two guard on his hip while Quickley does it to ones. RJ and Payton can ride herd on the proceedings to finish or otherwise intercede when appropriate. Knox and Obi will either catch lightning or hold the fort. I expect this would vary game to game. If RJ or Quickley hit a funk or are getting outfoxed, putting in Payton or Burks to carry through the game you get at least a scratch player at the position and should still be able to give yourself a chance to win.

I expect that in the scrimmage portion of the practices between the Cleveland preseason closer and the Indianapolis regular season opener, battles for these starting jobs are being staged and assessed by the staff along with seeing what situational combos work best.

If this all looks different opening night, I’ll be willing to believe it’s for good reason.

[bodiddley]

Yo Chip, Stanley Cowell passed on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/arts/music/stanley-cowell-dead.html
Let me know if you have any album/song recs from Cowell as a leader, which in all unknown to me.  I mostly just know his name and reputation.

[kidcarter8]

He regressed terribly in year two, never a good sign. From 12 to an anemic 6 ppg. Does not like to be muscled.


Dont base effective play on PPG.  There could be many factors

Look at shooting percentages, stats per 36 minutes, PER

But yeah, he's been bad.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/knoxke01.html

We have til about this time next year I think to decide on an extension.

[kidcarter8]

You get more open looks, better looks, the ball delivered in the pocket, knowing when/where your shots will come from, etc. when you have an orchestrator and steady system.  Is this actually in dispute?

Maybe a spray chart could help your case but its not like Knox hasnt got open looks - and thats why his % is down

Top of key and corner being easiest, maybe the chart would show too many wing attempts.

By the way, speaking of extensions, isnt today Frank's deadline?  Reminder - no Knicks dafat pick has signed a rookie extension since WARD in '94.

3-27, with 3rd year a team option?

[kidcarter8]

Fac - good sum up

I think we could all live with Quickley getting a chance to run this team - am I expecting it?  Not yet - no

I think Burks is too good a shooter to not have him in the starting lineup.

Noel and Mitch?  Don't care.

Glad you at least have Julius starting in this enactment 

[kidcarter8]

Question -

especially if OBI starts going haywire on the O end -

How much do we want to see Randle-Toppin-Burks (or other)-Barrett-Quickley (or other)?

Thinking being we put a HARD TO GUARD team (imagine that) out there for some stretches, see if teams can match up - and just live with it at the other end.

I will note moving forward how often we see this and how effective it is

[kidcarter8]

Yeah, I'd have Knox watch clips of Tatum and Melo taking it strong to the rim.  Knox has a way of hunching down and making himself smaller, gets blocked a lot that way on layups.  I want to see Knox crunch some people (on either end).


GREAT point.

The angle on KK's drives is improper - not directly at the tin.  Has to be a more inline path - and needs a cutback (maybe a Eurostep?) counter.

Much of this is psychological.  I dont ever see Knox as a seek contact guy

Physical strength (which at times just comes with age, believe it or not) will help, as players would more often bounce off and back (see Doncic) while contesting.

OK - put me in the 'only include Knox in a plus plus deal" group - for now at least.  I have been hard on him but his attitude is quite good,

[bodiddley]

When in Chitown, Thibs didn't play rooks.
I think that modified a fair amount in MINNy.
But I still suspect Thibs will lean on vets mostly, like his initial pre-season starting unit.

You think Franc should get an $8.5M/$9M/$9.5M deal?
That's what an average player makes -- the full MLE.
I'd think Franc is worth about 1/2 of that.