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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[facilitatorn]

Mobley is benefiting from the excellent play and development of Allen. Garland is benefiting from Rubio and the aforementioned bigs. They have a nice core to build on.

I would like to see Taj and Sims at center until Mitch and Noel heal up.

I would like to see Rose and Quickley absorb some of the minutes played by Walker. I think the best use of Walker right now is one sprint to put up 10 - 15 points per half starting when it looks like his defensive liabilities will get us into the least trouble. I do not think he should open or close based on his current level of play and who else is on the roster. If he is cooking and the D is holding he could easily finish a half or a game.

Does Tom have the latitude from Leon to do that? Does Tom trust he has it, if these are even moves he would consider making.

Keeping the second unit together was a nice idea, but sticking with it will put us in the playin games or worse.

[bodiddley]

James Herbert:

As ESPN's Tim Bontemps pointed out, New York's starting five has played more minutes than any lineup in the NBA, and ... has scored 104.9 points per 100 possessions and allowed 119.3 per 100.

When the Knicks signed Walker and Fournier in the offseason, they could have reasonably expected a bump in offense and a bit of defensive slippage. Broadly, this is indeed what has happened, but the defense has declined dramatically and the offensive improvement has come from the second unit, not the starters.

New York has been pretty consistent when it comes to taking care of the ball. It is giving up a ton of 3s off dribble penetration, however, and it has gone from an above-average defensive rebounding team to a below-average one. Offensively, the spacing looks better than it used to, but the starters haven't been particularly efficient. Randle is shooting 11 for 23 (26 percent) on long 2s, per Cleaning The Glass, and Walker, who is theoretically a source of rim pressure, has shot 4 for 14 at the rim with a free throw rate of 11.2 percent, by far the lowest of his career. Much has been made of the energy at Madison Square Garden, but the Knicks have now had a string of disappointing performances at home.

One potential fix: Start Burks in place of Fournier. Burks is a superior perimeter defender, and that's the starting lineup's most glaring weakness. If Thibodeau chooses to go this route, though, there will be ripple effects. Simply putting Fournier in Burks' place on the second unit, next to Rose and Quickley, is a recipe for disaster defensively. New York appears to miss Reggie Bullock, and the identity that it built last season -- that of a tough, connected, physical, defense-first team -- has not carried over. At 7-5, the Knicks are not in some kind of horrible funk, but they're not playing up to Thibodeau's standards, either.

IMO, Fournier is a below average defender, and Burks is worse.  Burks makes bad decisions, terrible rotations, can't be trusted on switches.  Burks is a more active defender, but that doesn't matter when your actions are often detrimental.  last year, I used to replay egregious Knick defensive breakdowns, and it was almost always Burks or Randle.  With a little Quix, ObiT and even RJB getting burned backdoor now and then.

Also, I think Knix need more consistent offense on the 1st unit, and Burks is a streaky fellow.
Really Burks can just play more minutes on the 2nd unit which Thibs has started doing.

The obvious shakeup is to start Rose.  Even more radical, start Rose and Taj, as they are a nice tandem.  And Taj is an energy guy.  Then ObiT gets to pair with Mitch/Noel, whoever is ambulatory.

Obviously Kemba is the weakest link on D and hasn't been much on O, outside the CHA flamethrowing.  Rose - Fournier - RJB - Randle - Taj.  I'd be interested in seeing how that plays out.  At least I'm not the only one who misses Reg's Bullocks.  There was a reason the Celts moved on from their erstwhile starting backcourt.  And took a chance on nice 2-way JoshRich who has been struggling to find a good fit (and to be consistent).

[kidcarter8]

Interesting -

So many of us were just KILLING the Vegas guys for their O/U of 41.5 for Knicks, acting as if we'd all bet our left nut that Knicks go over that number.

And here we are - even after seeing flashes of brilliance from our charges this early season - yet needing a win vs Indiana tonight to stay above .500.

Big game?

Yeah, I would say - for appearances sake.

[kidcarter8]

My adjustment is this -

Walker
Fournier
Burks
Randle
Robinson

secondarily...

Walker
Fournier
Barrett
Toppin
Randle

or combine

Walker
Fournier
Burks
Toppin
Randle

Likely starters stay the same - with possibly shorter leash.

[kidcarter8]

LAST 5 GAMES, first halves - PG position

Vs Charlotte -

Walker a plus 7 first half, Rose a +2

Vs Bucks

Walker a -6 early - Rose comes in and throws up a +4 (remember this isnt vs same cast as Walker vs Bucks starters).  Then Walker/Rose play together - for 6 minutes - at a -7.

Win vs Philly

Walker out to a -2.  Rose runs a +15.  Last 6 minutes both play and its EVEN.

Loss to Cavs (no Walker)

Rose out at EVEN (7:50).  Burks a +1 (8:11).  They play together about 4 minutes at -2.  Rose finishes half - +2

Win vs Bucks

Walker out at -13 (7:16).  Rose plays rest of half - at a +6.


- THIBS knows when Walker needs pine tme - and how much.  He isn't just sticking to designs.  TRUST THIBS.

[bodiddley]

My adjustment is this -

Walker - Fournier - Burks - Randle - Robinson

4 poor defenders and a gimpy Mitch.  What could go wrong?

secondarily...
Walker - Fournier - Barrett - Toppin - Randle

4 poor defenders and no backline defensive presence.
What could go right?

or combine
Walker - Fournier - Burks - Toppin - Randle

Start your 5 worst defenders ... what?!?

[kidcarter8]

Good piece with Fournier quotes on defense as well as some stats (was once a 2.5 defensive win share player)

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2020/12/3/22150400/orlando-magic-evan-fournier-2020-nba-training-camp

[kidcarter8]

Interesting -

So many of us were just KILLING the Vegas guys for their O/U of 41.5 for Knicks, acting as if we'd all bet our left nut that Knicks go over that number.

And here we are - even after seeing flashes of brilliance from our charges this early season - yet needing a win vs Indiana tonight to stay above .500.

Big game?

Yeah, I would say - for appearances sake.

Defining game, yes.

Showed commitment.

[carlos123]

Defining game, yes.

Showed commitment.

Cannot believe what I am gonna say.

But this time I agree 100% with Chamaco.

What is wrong with me?

- Help Chamaco Cartero and los123! -(they need it much more than Andy Parker)

[facilitatorn]

That was a nice one to get.

Let Mitch get right. Taj & Sims time up front. With maybe sone Obi sprinkled in if the situation warrants it.

[Kam]

New Yorks best players this season have been their two backup guards. Good things seems to happen whenever Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley are in the game. As of midnight, 344 two-man combos had played at least 175 minutes together this season. Four had a net rating above 20. Rose and IQ are one of them.

After achieving a plus-21 and plus-20 on/off in tonights win, Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley now rank 3rd and 16th in the NBA in total on/off, respectively.

[Kam]

The main issue I see with the starters is Randle needing to make the adjustment to Kemba.    Even though Payton was the starter last year, Randle really ran the offense. 

Take a look at Randle's amount of dribbles per touch this season.  Given a better PG this year and he is still dribbling the same amount.  More in fact.  As Randle's answer is always play harder.  Well this time he needs to play smarter.  He needs to trust Kemba with the ball and go back to less ISO, more finding ways to score without being the black hole on offense he sometimes is.


2017-18, LAL: 16.1 points in 26.7 mpg, 51.1 touches/gm, 1.35 dribbles per touch

2018-19, NOP: 21.4 points in 30.6 mpg, 59.5 touches/gm, 1.80 dribbles per touch

2019-20, NYK: 19.5 points in 32.5 mpg, 68.8 touches/gm, 1.67 dribbles per touch

2020-21, NYK: 24.1 points in 37.6 mpg, 83.6 touches/gm, 2.27 dribbles per touch

2021-22, NYK: 21.0 points in 35.6 mpg, 75.6 touches/gm, 2.28 dribbles per touch

[kidcarter8]

After achieving a plus-21 and plus-20 on/off in tonights win, Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley now rank 3rd and 16th in the NBA in total on/off, respectively.


Nice

[kidcarter8]

2020-21, NYK: 24.1 points in 37.6 mpg, 83.6 touches/gm, 2.27 dribbles per touch

This was the breakthrough to stardom year, right?

And THIS the subsequent year, which you seem to have trouble with?

2021-22, NYK: 21.0 points in 35.6 mpg, 75.6 touches/gm, 2.28 dribbles per touch

[kidcarter8]

- THIBS knows when Walker needs pine tme - and how much.  He isn't just sticking to designs.  TRUST THIBS.



Ahem....

Indeed.