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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 1195145 times)

chipstern

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Meanwhile, Somewhere Out Within The Earthly Remains Of Amerika
« Reply #21555 on: December 05, 2021, 04:07:28 PM »



Merry Christmas! 🎄
ps. Santa, please bring ammo. 🎁
Rep Thomas Massie (R-Kentucky) and Family

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-congressman-posts-family-christmas-picture-with-guns-days-after-school-2021-12-05/
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 04:09:57 PM by chipstern »
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carlos123

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THE ROYAL FAMILY
« Reply #21556 on: December 05, 2021, 08:45:46 PM »

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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21557 on: December 06, 2021, 02:56:07 AM »

Join the Politics thread ...
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21558 on: December 06, 2021, 03:18:30 AM »

About that off-season O-for-D swap:

Quote
New York has slipped from fourth in defense last season to 19th, and the offense improving from 22nd last year to 15th this season hasnt been enough to make up for that slippage.

Have we won a game since Kemba was benched?
Teams weren't really exploiting his weak D much, though they probably would in the playoffs.  Randle's talking a good game of defense, team defense. 

But with Kemba out of the rotation and Burks more active, Randle is our worst defender.  He boards well, and has improved on interior defense, but he's risible in transition, iffy on the perimeter, not much of a help defender, loses his man off ball, rotates poorly, and favors the occasional weird double team.  Too many poor defensive habits to unlearn.  The new NYK Melo.  Contract year Randle was probably  his career peak.

Oh well, I meant to write a post about losing our identity from last year.  Guess Im slumping too.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 10:59:12 AM by bodiddley »
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21559 on: December 06, 2021, 10:11:48 AM »

Yep, Randle has some awful defensive efforts in chunks of games.

Nope, teams were exploiting Kemba pretty badly.

But ya gotta wish Thibs didn't take this all-or-nothing approach to lineup changes.

It doesn't work too well. Refusing to experiment with a starting lineup sans Payton for 83 games even though it was obvious he was going to be hopeless when it mattered. Dropping the full guillotine on Kemba when he wasn't meshing with Julius. Why not give him 10 minutes of run with a different unit? Plenty of offensive skills still there.Try drawing on the clear defensive attributes of our two rookies when somebody is killing us. Use the f'in bench when folks are tired. Or playing like they're tired.

Hopefully Thibs will flex up. Otherwise we're in some trouble.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 10:14:12 AM by lesterluv »
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21560 on: December 06, 2021, 11:05:34 AM »

Tired.
The game before DEN, Randle played 33 of the first 36 mins.  Looked like he lost 5 pounds during the game.  Mitch has looked spent at times.  One transition hoop the opp Big scored easily and Clyde was left asking Where's Mitch?, who just didn't have the energy to change ends quickly.  And then there's Burks up to at times 40 mins a game lately. 
Grind 'em down to a Thib.


Uber Kelly shot 6-10 on 3's and 0-4 on FT's in the same game.  Odd.
Averaging 16 in 28 mins on 46/39/63 splits.
A nice bounce back season after not really fitting in well in GS.
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lesterluv

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21561 on: December 06, 2021, 11:44:58 AM »

No excuse for it.
Not when depth is perhaps our biggest advantage.
Not when the youth have been showing so well.
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carlos123

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BoZ's structure
« Reply #21562 on: December 06, 2021, 12:21:56 PM »

Join the Politics thread ...

You mean, your friend Chamaco's thread ...

That's good for Chamaco, Mr. Utley and you too.

Ain't going there, thanks. Plus, by posting here I got the advantage of annoying you with my lack of structure 😁
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21563 on: December 06, 2021, 01:06:28 PM »

Join the Politics thread ...

Oh, gee wiz, forgive me for being human. 
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carlos123

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Re-education
« Reply #21564 on: December 06, 2021, 01:14:35 PM »

Join the Politics thread ...

Oh, gee wiz, forgive me for being human.

Lets forgive BoZ...

The re-education in Xinjiang was hard on him, poor thing.
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"I am your warrior and, if you feel you have been wronged or betrayed, I am your retribution, oh yes, your retribution."
- Putin's bitch at CPAC 2023

"Those Hispanics are funny, and they speak really funny"
- Bo Zizzley&Chip Stern

- Prayers for Chamaco Cartero -

- BAN THE AR15-
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21565 on: December 06, 2021, 01:51:10 PM »


Uber Kelly shot 6-10 on 3's and 0-4 on FT's in the same game.  Odd.
Averaging 16 in 28 mins on 46/39/63 splits.
A nice bounce back season after not really fitting in well in GS


Took SEVEN years for KO to become an effective 3-shooter (25 games worth at least)

If it sticks they will have made a pretty good buy at 2-24 and have a decision on his next deal

(current PER of 15.7 is his best - career at 12.9 - good trend up)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 01:52:50 PM by kidcarter8 »
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Kam

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J MACRI this morning
« Reply #21566 on: December 06, 2021, 01:53:53 PM »

As Thibs pointed out after the game, more than half the league now has at least one big man who can space the floor (ie going five out). This is not a problem that is going away.

Between Robinson, Noel (available for just 10 games, and ineffective at times when he has played) and Taj (11 games played), the inconsistency of New York center position has been the most underrated aspect of them falling to 24th in defense. Against a team like Denver, who for all of their injuries can still go five/out for 48 minutes (jokic, nnaji), this was perhaps a perfect storm.

It/s tempting to use that (and a whooole lot of missed open threes by New York) as an excuse for their first true ass/kicking off the season. Likewise, this is still a team that has had a second half lead in all but three games, and one of those (Indiana) they got within one.

But both talking points would only hide the truth: this was a no/show job that would make Paulie Walnuts blush. And that, more than anything, is why every Knicks fan should wake up this morning with serious concerns about what lies ahead.

It was probably too convenient to think that the removal of Walker would cure what ailed them (although save for the first quarter against the Bulls, their defense had looked largely solid in the three games prior to Saturday). Either way, we can now be sure it wasn/t the magic elixir that would get things back on track. Needless to say, with two losses to the Magic and a near defeat by the Rockets, no game can be taken for granted. If this level of play continues, the season can absolutely spiral out of control.

They have moves they can make. Trade season opens in 10 days, and I/m sure they will be active. Putting RJ into the second unit and elevating Grimes might actually give the starting five a jolt (and judging from Grimes getting an extended run with the starters in place of Barrett on Saturday may be an indication Thibs is mulling it over). At center, I mean the NBA/s ultimate in unspectacular consistency is sitting right there on the bench. I/d be very curious to see how they look with Taj starting and Mitch off the bench, where fewer stretch fives will be in to hurt him.

But these are all bandaids. At the end of the day, as Julius himself said afterwards, this is about looking in the mirror. It/s been a while since this organization was at a crossroads, but it feels like they/ve arrived at one now. Their best player has displayed the sort of inconsistency that left two teams ready to move on from him and left our own fan base just as willing to part ways before last season. Can he get back to what he was?

Time will tell. The same goes for RJ, whose shooting slump has extended well past any funk he was in last season. The sooner he accepts the fact that he/s not destined for greatness, as he told the New York Post right around when his shooting slump began, and that greatness instead comes from hours and hours in the gym, the better his chances get.

It has to start with them. The Immanuel Quickleys, Obi Toppins, Quentin Grimes and Deuce McBrides of the world are tireless (and, if you/re looking for silver linings, evidence of good things long term for this regime), but if they/re being depended on to rescue this season, this season is not going to be rescued, at least not in the way we now still hope.

Perhaps we get a healthier dose of all the kids after all. If that happens, this season will have pivoted in a way that almost no one could have possibly expected before it began. They/re another bad six weeks away from looking awfully hard at the top of the 2022 Draft.

(If you think that/s hyperbolic, consider: only six teams have a worse net rating than the Knicks since November 1. Four of them entered this season with the intention of tanking, the Pelicans have not yet seen their best player in uniform, and the Blazers have been Knicks West, only worse.)

Or we look back on this 11 and 12 start as nothing more than a bumpy transition for a roster that tried to reconfigure itself but realized that with this core group of players, there was only one style of play that was ever going to work.

But it/s getting late early. The clock has just about struck midnight, and Saturday/s pumpkin was proof of just how bad things have gotten.

The choice is theirs.

----


(As an aside, I wouldn/t be shocked in the slightest if the Knicks made a serious push for Myles Turner. This isn/t the first time Thibodeau has mentioned the prevalence of teams who can go five/out, as if to ask, where is mine? Noel and Taj have both taken corner threes this season, so the notion is being encouraged behind the scenes. Now its just a matter of getting someone who can make them).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2021, 02:10:13 PM by Kam »
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21567 on: December 06, 2021, 02:18:12 PM »

Kleber would help.  I said so previously

It's more a preferred style to have the rim protector on the court.  Rim protector/3 point range guys are few and far between (Turner being one, yes)
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chipstern

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Re: J MACRI this morning
« Reply #21568 on: December 06, 2021, 02:29:19 PM »

As Thibs pointed out after the game, more than half the league now has at least one big man who can space the floor (ie going five out). This is not a problem that is going away.

Between Robinson, Noel (available for just 10 games, and ineffective at times when he has played) and Taj (11 games played), the inconsistency of New York center position has been the most underrated aspect of them falling to 24th in defense. Against a team like Denver, who for all of their injuries can still go five/out for 48 minutes (jokic, nnaji), this was perhaps a perfect storm.

It/s tempting to use that (and a whooole lot of missed open threes by New York) as an excuse for their first true ass/kicking off the season. Likewise, this is still a team that has had a second half lead in all but three games, and one of those (Indiana) they got within one.

But both talking points would only hide the truth: this was a no/show job that would make Paulie Walnuts blush. And that, more than anything, is why every Knicks fan should wake up this morning with serious concerns about what lies ahead.

It was probably too convenient to think that the removal of Walker would cure what ailed them (although save for the first quarter against the Bulls, their defense had looked largely solid in the three games prior to Saturday). Either way, we can now be sure it wasn/t the magic elixir that would get things back on track. Needless to say, with two losses to the Magic and a near defeat by the Rockets, no game can be taken for granted. If this level of play continues, the season can absolutely spiral out of control.

They have moves they can make. Trade season opens in 10 days, and I/m sure they will be active. Putting RJ into the second unit and elevating Grimes might actually give the starting five a jolt (and judging from Grimes getting an extended run with the starters in place of Barrett on Saturday may be an indication Thibs is mulling it over). At center, I mean the NBA/s ultimate in unspectacular consistency is sitting right there on the bench. I/d be very curious to see how they look with Taj starting and Mitch off the bench, where fewer stretch fives will be in to hurt him.

But these are all bandaids. At the end of the day, as Julius himself said afterwards, this is about looking in the mirror. It/s been a while since this organization was at a crossroads, but it feels like they/ve arrived at one now. Their best player has displayed the sort of inconsistency that left two teams ready to move on from him and left our own fan base just as willing to part ways before last season. Can he get back to what he was?

Time will tell. The same goes for RJ, whose shooting slump has extended well past any funk he was in last season. The sooner he accepts the fact that he/s not destined for greatness, as he told the New York Post right around when his shooting slump began, and that greatness instead comes from hours and hours in the gym, the better his chances get.

It has to start with them. The Immanuel Quickleys, Obi Toppins, Quentin Grimes and Deuce McBrides of the world are tireless (and, if you/re looking for silver linings, evidence of good things long term for this regime), but if they/re being depended on to rescue this season, this season is not going to be rescued, at least not in the way we now still hope.

Perhaps we get a healthier dose of all the kids after all. If that happens, this season will have pivoted in a way that almost no one could have possibly expected before it began. They/re another bad six weeks away from looking awfully hard at the top of the 2022 Draft.

(If you think that/s hyperbolic, consider: only six teams have a worse net rating than the Knicks since November 1. Four of them entered this season with the intention of tanking, the Pelicans have not yet seen their best player in uniform, and the Blazers have been Knicks West, only worse.)

Or we look back on this 11 and 12 start as nothing more than a bumpy transition for a roster that tried to reconfigure itself but realized that with this core group of players, there was only one style of play that was ever going to work.

But it/s getting late early. The clock has just about struck midnight, and Saturday/s pumpkin was proof of just how bad things have gotten.

The choice is theirs.

----


(As an aside, I wouldn/t be shocked in the slightest if the Knicks made a serious push for Myles Turner. This isn/t the first time Thibodeau has mentioned the prevalence of teams who can go five/out, as if to ask, where is mine? Noel and Taj have both taken corner threes this season, so the notion is being encouraged behind the scenes. Now its just a matter of getting someone who can make them).

Good stuff, Kam. 

Assuming health?

Noel/Gibson
Randle
Fournier
Burks
Rose

Robinson/Sims
Toppin
RJ
Grimes
IQ/McBride/Walker

There may indeed be trades in our future.

Myles Turner the most obvious target. 

But I do not believe that Indy is actively shopping him. 

In any event, it would take more than Kevin Knox and draft assets. 

ADDENDUM:  If we are heading out of the 1-10, I would not be inclined to give up our 2022 #1.  As per our second draft pick in 2022, that is contingent on Charlotte finishing out side the bottom 18, which they are currently trending towards. 

ADDENDUM 2:  While Walker being demoted from the First Unit makes a certain amount of sense, removing him altogether from the rotation seems kind of self-defeating.  He may not be a lead guard of yore, and his defense/size is problematic, but he is a pro, and his offensive skills could benefit a second unit, let alone buttress his possible trade value.   
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facilitatorn

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21569 on: December 06, 2021, 02:44:08 PM »

After the first run of games, you give Walker a month off his knees to work on whatever you agree will help, ramp him back up, pray for no setbacks, then see what you got.

Grimes displacing Barrett to be the point of attack defender between Burks and Fournier and having RJ come in with Rose and IQ makes good sense to me.

Of our current options I like Taj as our starting center, even if he only plays short key minutes and takes nights off. We should be exploring the market as it emerges.
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