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Who will win Game 5 of the NBA Finals?

Warriors
- 1 (33.3%)
Celtics
- 2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM


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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 1195469 times)

kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21735 on: December 16, 2021, 07:19:23 AM »

But we were lucky to pick up Kemba, otherwise we would have been just Rose & IQ (and for whatever reason Burks) at PG.  Just as we were lucky to nab Rose in the first place.  Of course, Rose has worked out grandly, and Kemba was the fall guy for this year's crappy defense.  Though we still play iffy D and lose without him.


I disagree with this

We'd have added another PG if not Walker prior to the season.

Which is why - if we arent playing Kemba - we will look to add one now.

Rose "working out grandly" is an OK assessment - as long as we have that other key guy (read: starter).

Is Thibs convinced it can be Burks as we get healthier and continue the season?  Is Leon convinced?  Does Leon care about bottom line wins/playoffs this year or is it just big picture?
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21736 on: December 16, 2021, 08:09:44 AM »


I disagree with this
We'd have added another PG if not Walker prior to the season.
Which is why - if we arent playing Kemba - we will look to add one now.

Who would we have added?
I was clamoring for FVV, wanted BallZo, and would have settled for Rubio.
Preferring to spend big money on a starting PG and not add Fournier.
By the time we picked up Kemba, all those fellers were signed away.

I don't see us adding a PG.  We have 3 PG's already & Kemba. 
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chipstern

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Moving Forward
« Reply #21737 on: December 16, 2021, 11:42:19 AM »


I disagree with this
We'd have added another PG if not Walker prior to the season.
Which is why - if we arent playing Kemba - we will look to add one now.

Who would we have added?
I was clamoring for FVV, wanted BallZo, and would have settled for Rubio.
Preferring to spend big money on a starting PG and not add Fournier.
By the time we picked up Kemba, all those fellers were signed away.

I don't see us adding a PG.  We have 3 PG's already & Kemba.

Perry reportedly was pushing hard for DeRozan. 

Not sure why Ball was undervalued by our brain trust.  Still a work in progress, but a 6'6" work who plays D. 

I like Burks, but do not see him as a 40 minutes a night man, let alone a PG. 

I like Noel, but he is prone to getting dinged up, and offers us nothing in the way of offense. 

Mitchell and Evan?  The jury is still out.  Evan baffles me.  Something to do with his role in the offense?  Early on, he and JR seemed to be developing a nice two man game.  Did I say Evan baffles me.  He was sure a fierce baller in the Olympics.  Mitchell still seems to be getting his hops back, but is getting schooled by bigs who can nail the three, which kind of obviates his effectiveness as a rim rocker, does it not? 

AS HAS BEEN DISCUSSED. 

Seeing the beautiful motion and movement, with and without the ball that GS evinced [and yet we remained within striking range until they turned up the jets late in the game], our offense seems stodgy and ISO Heavy.  Of course, we don't have a Steph Curry or a Draymond Green, and RJ has a ways to go, Wiggins-Wise.  And this is GS without Wiseman and Thompson.

Not quite Phool Jagoff stodgy, but overly mechanical...in the HeroBall mode when Melo was our #1-#2-#3 OPTION, AND TEAMS WOULD COLLAPSE ON HIM, much as they do on Julius. 

Julius' shortcomings notwithstanding, clearly the brother doesn't know whether to shit or go blind.  If he dominates the offense, as Thibs suggested in the press with his call for JR to be more aggressive, than JR is selfish.  If he works to facilitate on a team full of non-cutters and very streaky shooters, than he doesn't make his teammates better.

It's water under the bridge, but one can imagine Julius being far more effective as a second option with someone like DeRozan to be the main option and draw the coverage [he has supercharged Lavine and company with his old school mastery], or, as Bo suggests, a pure PG such as Rubio, to set the table.  Julius is a good player.  Early on when both Fournier and RJ were clicking, things looked promising.

Options?

As Trader Vics come out of the woodwork, I mean, SERIOUSLY, who is likely to take Kemba off our hands?  Let alone Fournier.  Or Noel Or Burks Or Mitchell for that matter? 

Given our talent pool, it would seem like a seller's market.  First rounders would likely have to be attached to get something useful back. 

I like Turner.  I like Sabonis even more, and think he could be a really effective small ball center.  Indiana has issues, mainly THEIR COACH, who is a real douche [check out narratives emerging out of and around Dallas, and how much better, Porzingis, for one, is playing under Kidd]. 

I'm of a mind to develop our youth.  Don't think Thibs quite sees it that way. 

Players, such as Okoro and Toppin, benefit from getting to work out their kinks not just in practice, but on the court.  Okoro, known as a 3&D dawg, and one of BoD's fave whipping boys, for his offensive shortcomings, was 7-9, 3-3 from trey and 3-4 from the FT last night in a Cavs blow out of the Rockets.  All of a sudden Love is healthy, Rubio had 12 assists and 4 steals in 21 minutes, Allen has been developing nicely, as has Garland in the absence of Sexton. 

All three of our puppies, Sims, Grimes and McBride, have excelled when given a chance, and Knox, still not a stalwart defender, has excelled as a sniper when finally given minutes out of sheer desperation.  Sam-A-Knick has excelled in G-League as a 6'10" stretch-4/3 hybrid, a la the Cavs Markkanen, and Jokubaitis, our Euro Stash combo, has been tearing things up in Europe, so help is on the way. 

STILL...


As prudent as Leon Rose and company have been [and, COUGH, Kemba, Evan, Nelens and Alec surely are not working out as projected], I AM TERRIFIED that we are going to sacrifice yute and draft assets in pursuit of some dubious short term "fixes." 

Can Leon get creative, and use his 'connections" to convert water into wine. 

STAY TUNED. 
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 11:46:19 AM by chipstern »
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Kam

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J MACRI this morning
« Reply #21738 on: December 16, 2021, 11:50:29 AM »

The trade deadline is February 10, and the next top six seed in either conference that the Knicks play will be 19 games from now, when they face the Clippers on January 23. This comes after a stretch in which they have played seven top six seeds in their last dozen games. New York, should they put it together, absolutely has a run in them.

Let's take a look at some recent precedent of teams over the last four seasons (skipping the pandemic-shorted/bubble season because it was bonkers) who started slowly over the first third of the year and rebounded to finish with a significantly better record and/or net rating to end the season:

2020-21
Washington Wizards

After 24 games: -6.2 net rating, 27th in the NBA, 7-17 record

After 72 games: -1.6 net rating, 22nd in the NBA, 34-38 record

Miami Heat

After 24 games: -3.3 net rating, 23rd in the NBA, 10-14 record

After 72 games: -0.1 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 40-32 record

Dallas Mavericks

After 24 games: -2.5 net rating, 22nd in the NBA, 10-14 record

After 72 games: 2.3 net rating, 10th in the NBA, 42-30 record

New York Knicks

After 24 games: -1.0 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 11-13 record

After 72 games: 2.4 net rating, 9th in the NBA, 41-31 record

2018-19:

Orlando Magic

After 28 games: -3.0 net rating, 24th in the NBA, 13-15 record

After 82 games: 0.6 net rating, 14th in the NBA, 42-40 record

Brooklyn Nets

After 28 games: -1.6 net rating, 22nd in the NBA, 10-18 record

After 82 games: -0.1 net rating, 15th in the NBA, 42-40 record

Utah Jazz

After 28 games: -1.0 net rating, 20th in the NBA, 13-15 record

After 82 games: 5.0 net rating, 4th in the NBA, 50-32 record

Houston Rockets

After 28 games: -0.1 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: 4.8 net rating, 5th in the NBA, 53-29 record

2017-18

Miami Heat

After 28 games: -2.5 net rating, 21st in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: 0.4 net rating, 16th in the NBA, 44-38 record

New Orleans Pelicans

After 28 games: -0.9 net rating, 18th in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: 1.1 net rating, 13th in the NBA, 48-34 record

Philadelphia 76ers

After 28 games: -0.2 net rating, 17th in the NBA, 14-14 record

After 82 games: -0.2 net rating, 4th in the NBA, 52-30 record

That's 11 teams in all, and we can eliminate most of them as realistic comps because they had a star or superstar player(s) at their disposal to help spur the turnaround:

2017-18: Sixers - Joel Embiid / Ben Simmons; Pelicans - Anthony Davis / Jrue Holiday;

2019-20: Jazz - Donovan Mitchell / Rudy Gobert; Rockets - James Harden / Russell Westbrook (who was good in the second half of the season)

2020-21: Mavericks - Luka Doncic, Miami - Jimmy Butler; Washington - Bradley Beal / Russell Westbrook (who was good in the second half of the season  ... again)

Last season's turnarounds from the Heat and Wizards also included slow starts influenced by injuries and/or COVID.

That leaves four teams: the 2017-18 Miami Heat, the 2018-19 Brooklyn Nets and Orlando Magic, and of course, last season's Knicks. I'm ruling out the Heat as a realistic comp because #HeatCulture being what it is, midseason turnarounds were something of a habit by then, having come back from 11-30 the previous year to finish 41-41. Goran Dragic also made his first and only All-Star team that season.

The other three teams are interesting. The '18-19 Magic stuck with their four-man core of Nikola Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, D.J. Augustin and - wait for it - Evan Fournier for the whole season, never making a starting lineup change other than briefly when Jonathan Isaac went down with an injury. That four-man group had been together the previous two seasons and had clearly build up a level of confidence that eventually, things would turn around.

It did. BUT only delayed the inevitable tear down and tank by a couple years. Brooklyn, on the other hand, parlayed their feel-good finish into KD and Kyrie. There's no free agent pot of gold at the end of the rainbow this season, but the comp is still there: major market, keep the positive vibes flowing, and trust that good things will happen.

If they can turn it around, which leads us to the last comp: last year's Knicks. They're further under .500 with a worse net rating right now than they were after 24 games last season, and even if they get Myles Turner without overpaying, the likelihood of him having a Derrick Rose type impact is slim. Still, they don't need to go 34-20 the rest of the way (the record that would result from the equivalent winning percentage they had over the final two thirds of last season) to make this a successful year.

My take, after all of the question-raising I just did: if they can simply be a top 10 defense from this point forward and be a slightly better offense than what they've shown (say, 9th in D and 17th in O?) that should be enough to get them a .500 record by April and restore the positive vibes of last season. Of all the realistic possibilities that exist, that's the one I'm rooting for, ping pong balls be damned.

But it has to start now, tonight, in Houston, with a win. And then keep going, with a minimum requirement of getting back to .500 by the time the schedule gets harder again after the next 18 games.

History says its possible. Likely? The culture that was supposedly so strong last season will decide as much.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 12:38:37 PM by Kam »
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21739 on: December 16, 2021, 12:53:42 PM »

I don't see us adding a PG.  We have 3 PG's already & Kemba.


Kemba would be in the deal

McBride is an apprentice.

As seen, Rose best off the bench and for 22-26 minutes.

Give the team to Quickley?  Sure.  Let's see it.

Other than that - the search is on leaguewide.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21740 on: December 16, 2021, 12:55:36 PM »

I was clamoring for FVV, wanted BallZo, and would have settled for Rubio.


Attaboy.

But I guess we all have to still trust Leon for now.

It's Leon/Thibs combo wavelength that may worry some.
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21741 on: December 16, 2021, 01:44:56 PM »

Btw, that BKY v. TOR game the other night was hugely entertaining.
Not least because in the 2nd half rookie Barnes battled Durant even on both ends.
Late in Raps big 3Q, Barnes twice went 1-on-1 posting Durant and scored.
Then Barnes started giving KD problems with his defense.
And for good measure, Barnes started popping key 3's in the 4Q.
One confident, talented rook.

Other storylines:
Trent and Mills bombing in 3's.
Kessler Edwards doing his Grimes impersonation, playing some real nice 2-way ball.
David Duke starting and getting a double-double, including the game-clinching rebound.
FVV had a stellar game, but missed two late reg shots that could have won it.
Just lotta guys leaving it all out there, including Blake Griffin and Boucher.
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chipstern

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Kam
« Reply #21742 on: December 16, 2021, 01:47:40 PM »

Good points. 

Perhaps we can work out the kinks. 

Hell, Atlanta stunk up the joint until they hired McMillan late in a lost season, and damn bear made the finals. 

Fate/Pandemic has intervened with Thibs where he was FORCED AT GUNPOINT to play the next men up, and Sims, Grimes, Knox and McBride all responded. 

So we shall see. 

But 35 minutes for Rose, 40 for Burks, irrespective of injuries, is troubling, and neither benefits the Knicks, not Derrick and Alec. 
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chipstern

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21743 on: December 16, 2021, 01:57:12 PM »

Btw, that BKY v. TOR game the other night was hugely entertaining.
Not least because in the 2nd half rookie Barnes battled Durant even on both ends.
Late in Raps big 3Q, Barnes twice went 1-on-1 posting Durant and scored.
Then Barnes started giving KD problems with his defense.
And for good measure, Barnes started popping key 3's in the 4Q.
One confident, talented rook.

Other storylines:
Trent and Mills bombing in 3's.
Kessler Edwards doing his Grimes impersonation, playing some real nice 2-way ball.
David Duke starting and getting a double-double, including the game-clinching rebound.
FVV had a stellar game, but missed two late reg shots that could have won it.
Just lotta guys leaving it all out there, including Blake Griffin and Boucher.

I simply ADORE Barnes.  Could not at first understand why Raptors took him over Suggs.  With hindsight a no brainer.  Looks like a cross between Rodman and Worthy. 

And sometimes it helps to be lucky.  Detroit and Houston were simply in love with Cade Cunnigham and Jalen Green, allowing Mobley and Barnes, both seemingly generational players,  to drop to the Cavs and Raptors, both of whom have had a major impact. 

In terms of value and draft position? 

It ain't always when you pick but whom?

#13 [Duarte]

#16 [Sengun]

#25 [Grimes]

#36 [McBride]

#38 [Dosonmu]

#58 [Sims]
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chipstern

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Fuck Me
« Reply #21744 on: December 16, 2021, 02:04:41 PM »

Kevin Knox II has entered health and safety protocols and is out versus Houston tonight.
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Kam

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Re: Fuck Me
« Reply #21745 on: December 16, 2021, 03:14:28 PM »

Kevin Knox II has entered health and safety protocols and is out versus Houston tonight.

IF YOU ARE IN NEW YORK AND HAVE A BLUE JERSEY, GO TO THE GYM THE KNICKS NEED YOU.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21746 on: December 16, 2021, 04:26:06 PM »

15+ game scores for Barnes - 12

7 of last 9

Suggs is on his level - make no mistake

« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 04:34:14 PM by kidcarter8 »
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21747 on: December 16, 2021, 04:36:28 PM »

Great Lakers win last night - led by Ellington and Reaves

And today they have signed Isaiah Thomas
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bodiddley

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21748 on: December 16, 2021, 04:46:39 PM »

I really enjoyed Reaves early in the season.  Unafraid, competes, and feisty on D.
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kidcarter8

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Re: Knicks
« Reply #21749 on: December 16, 2021, 08:02:34 PM »

Barrett
Toppin
Grimes
Knox

OUT

I am calling a 25-7-5 game for Burks.  And of course a W.

Watch out for Matthews - and Sengun

And GORDON, who could get 40.
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