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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kidcarter8]

I think we have (sub-super) stars.

A 20-6-3.5-1-0.5-44-35-72 line over 75+ games is actually star quality.  Hoping this for R.J.

[elephant]

Man, the way you guys use Barrett's numbers!

Let me put on my house contrarian hat and point you to the basics.

His average of 20 points/game last year ranks him at a nice respectable 40th place in scoring.

And his shooting percentage? For that, he moves down to #105.

(note, this stat isn't especially revealing, as big men naturally have better percentages, and even great players like Stephen Curry, who comes in as #88, can have a penchant for making 3's and making baskets at the right time. But still Barrett's #105 is awfully low.)

Perhaps when you consider all the stats together, Barrett is a star. Again, I don't think so. But could he be? Yeah. Absolutely. That's what we're waiting to see.

BTW I would argue that the attributes defining a "star" transcend statistics. Stars lead teams and create wins, sometimes through a magical process that looks like sheer will power and determination.

You know it when you see it.

I don't see it yet.

[kidcarter8]

Well.....

you  saw someone lead Knicks to  wins over good teams last year.


Maybe it was mostly Burks?

[chipstern]

Man, the way you guys use Barrett's numbers!

Let me put on my house contrarian hat and point you to the basics.

His average of 20 points/game last year ranks him at a nice respectable 40th place in scoring.

And his shooting percentage? For that, he moves down to #105.

(note, this stat isn't especially revealing, as big men naturally have better percentages, and even great players like Stephen Curry, who comes in as #88, can have a penchant for making 3's and making baskets at the right time. But still Barrett's #105 is awfully low.)

Perhaps when you consider all the stats together, Barrett is a star. Again, I don't think so. But could he be? Yeah. Absolutely. That's what we're waiting to see.

BTW I would argue that the attributes defining a "star" transcend statistics. Stars lead teams and create wins, sometimes through a magical process that looks like sheer will power and determination.

You know it when you see it.

I don't see it yet.

Jalen Brunson?

[chipstern]

Because I genuinely hope they'll win 50, 60 games. Name a higher number, I'll take it. I want it.

But a (cough) pessimist might point out that the same guys that led you to a sub-playoff season, Randle+Barrett+Thibs remain the core of the Knicks.

So we're hoping these three will prove their worth, prove they're contenders. We're hoping Barrett is young enough to make a real jump. We're hoping that Julius will have a season like he had a couple of years ago. We're hoping that Mr. Brunson will make everyone a whole lot better.

Oh, and there's hoping that Grimes will become an all star.

Lot of hoping going on.

But as of today....we're still a team without a single star.

Ah yes...STARS

Denver gets

Wilson Chandler
Raymond Felton
Danilo Gallinari
Timofey Mozgov
the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick
the Warriors' 2012 second-round pick (obtained from previous trade)
the Warriors' 2013 second-round pick (obtained from previous trade)
$3 million in cash.

Knicks receive

Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups
Shelden Williams
Anthony Carter
Renaldo Balkman.

Basically, four starters and a #1 for Carmelo. 

Billups played one season.  Amare's knees gave out. 

We gutted our team for a star. 

Put up great stats. 

We won...NOTHING. 

[kidcarter8]

Chaunceyyyyyy, baby.

Thanks for reminding us how cheap they were.

[chipstern]

By the way.

I feel your pain.

You long for a clear cut bell cow. 

I get it. 

The process of developing master players from zygotes is interminable, is it not. 

RJ is a good player, right, but not a great player. 

Ever?

Or yet?

Has gotten better every year. 

Significant growth after the All-Star Break. 

Would I love to have Donovan Mitchell? 

Sure. 

Would I love to pay Danny Ainge's price?

No thanks. 

Having said THAT, there seems to be some inevitability of a deal getting done. 

So far Leon Rose has not caved. 

Again, I suspect if the Lakers get involved, something might get done. 

MEANWHILE

Brunson, Rose-Quickley [?]
Grimes, Fournier-Quickley [?]
Barrett, Fournier-Reddish [?]
Randle, Toppin
Robinson, Hartenstein/Sims [?]

Given, I am the Patron Saint of Incurably Hopeful POSITIVE PUSSIES. 

But your WE DON'T HAVE A SINGLE STAR?

I am largely unmoved. 

Nor, moving forward, does the premise which holds that Donovam Mitchell IS A STAR and gets us ANOTHER STAR. 

Well.

Who?

Where? 

When? 

Rookie Max Contracts and the Structure Of Free Agency would seem to mitigate against TOP TIER FREE AGENTS COMING ON THE MARKET. 

Who exactly do we see coming on ther market? 

I'd rather roll the dice on our puppies, and building a collective bond of team chemistry. 

Here are 2023 FAs

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2023/

Here are 2024 FAs

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/2024/ufa/

Looking into your Krystal Ball, who would you project as a Knick? 

So not seeing sufficient progress?  Whatsoever our mis-steps [Kemba Walker] and quasi mis-steps [Julius, Evan] of the past couple of years, we have a front office with a certain sense of patience and proportion, not pouncing reflexively on the  first shiny objects to cross their path

We have a certain stability in terms of "veteran" players who have standing individually and collectively entering yet another year as Knicks: Mitchell [4 years], Julius [3 years], RJ [3 years], Rose [2 years], Obi [2 years], IQ [2 years]

We have a coach staff and a system in place, headed by Thibs and Johnny Bryant, entering  its third season.

The revolving door of front office personnel, players and coaches that distinguished the past two decades seems to have abated. 

The short term thinking which led us to eat our young or quickly discard them for worn out veterans?  The tendency to throw away draft picks as if they were Halloween Kandy Korn? 

GIVEN: To Be A Knicks Fan Is To Suffer.

However, be it ever so humble, what we've seen, mis-steps and all, over the past few years, it nevertheless constitutes...PROGRESS.  [GIVEN, the bar be set very low]

2016-2017: Jackson & Hornacek [31-51]
2017-2018: Mills & Hornacek [29-53]
2018-19: Fizdale & Mills [17-65]
2019-20: Fizdale/Miller & Mills/Perry, Rose [21-45]
2020-21: Thibodeau & Rose [41-31]
2021-22: Thibodeau & Rose [37-45]

Adding Brunson & Hartenstein, re-upping Robinson & Barrett, and nurturing Toppin, Quickley, Grimes, Reddish, Sims, McBride [and praying for the immortal souls of Julius Randle & Evan Fournier] obviously does not rock your world. 

I feel you. 

But Brunson counts as a significant addition, and not having a revolving door of coaches and players and squandered draft picks seems significant to me. 

I guess I'm just a Positive Pussy who is easy to please. 

Stay strong, Elephant. 

[facilitatorn]

So Who is rounding out our training camp roster?

[carlos123]

So Who is rounding out our training camp roster?

Jimmer Fredette?

Speaking on behalf of you-know-who. . .

[facilitatorn]

As radio guy in Westchester maybe, unless we got one.

[facilitatorn]

Simms, Dequan Jefferies, Archie if he has not latched on elsewhere all come to mind.

That would take us to eighteen with two open places. 13 contracts, 2 two-ways, 3 pay as you go. 

[kidcarter8]

Reddish not ready to buy in

https://hoopshype.com/2022/09/01/looking-for-a-larger-role-cam-reddish-wants-trade-out-of-new-york-lakers-interested/

The door is over THERE, pal.

[chipstern]

"Thanks to all of you for the kind wishes.  What do I want for my birthday?  Why to escape Tom Thibodeaux's lingering disdain and to come off the bench for the Lakers."

DM deal seems to be shaping up. 

Let's see.

Knicks kick in Cam Reddish, Evan Fournier
Three Protected #1 Picks
One UnProtected #1 Pick
Some Second Rounders

Lakers kick in their 2027 & 2029 UnProtected #1 Picks
Russell Westbrook

Jazz kick in Mike Conley, Rudy Gay, Jordan Clarkson

Lakers make out like bandits, get some legit veteran pieces AND offload Westbrook in the bargain. 

Jazz offload Conley and Gay's $30 million in contracts.  And cop 3 protected and 3 unprotected #1 picks. 

Do either or both Reddish and Fournier end up on the Lakers/Jazz? 

Knicks?

Brunson, Rose, McBride
Mitchell, Quickley, Keels
Barrett, Grimes, Hunt
Randle, Toppin
Robinson, Hartenstein, Sims

PS: Note to Reddish.  You being a 3-4-2, the Lakers have this LeBron James fellow at SF, Anthony Davis at PF.  Oh, and Patrick Beverley, Kendrick Nunn, Austin Reaves and Lonnie Walker in the backcourt.  Might get more opportunity for playing time with the Jazz. 

PPS: This being said, I'd still rather stand pat and hold on to our assets.  I think Mitchell is a mirage.  A talented mirage, a damn talented mirage, but not an ideal pairing with Brunson. 

PPPS: Perhaps we could modulate this phantasy to get Jordan Clarkson on the Knicks, as per his Booster Facil, although that kind of negates the salary/roster spot point of offloading Fournier, though Clarkson would give us coverage at SG & PG

PPPPS: But hey, what do I know. 

 

[facilitatorn]

Reddish not ready to buy in

https://hoopshype.com/2022/09/01/looking-for-a-larger-role-cam-reddish-wants-trade-out-of-new-york-lakers-interested/

The door is over THERE, pal.

Some schmucks still take Berman at face value. Sad.

[facilitatorn]

Chip. I am not a Clarkson booster. Not needed here. Standing pat. Thanks. Looking forward to seeing what Cam brings to the table this season.