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Author Topic: Knicks  (Read 3719412 times)
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Biz
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« Reply #128670 on: August 11, 2017, 03:13:00 PM »

My understanding is that Sac has some room.

If so its pretty close.....

Not quite enough cap room, plus Houston is hard capped because they signed Tucker to the full MLE. This means Houston can't really take any more of note without giving up Ariza, Gordon or Capela, and they aren't doing that.

The simplest hypothetical deal with Sacto would look something like this:

Sacto gives Koufos (two years, 8.5 per), Temple (two years, 8.0 per)
Sacto gets Ryno

Houston gives Ryno, three of Taylor/Quarterman/Onaku/Long (I believe none are fully guaranteed), 2020 first rounder
Houston gets Melo

NY gets Koufos, Temple, the three non-guaranteed deals, 2020 first rounder
NY gives Melo

I don't see why Sacto takes on Ryno at that salary to play behind ZBo and Skal (with lottery picks Stein and Papagiannis at the 5). It doesn't make much sense. But the pre-Scott Perry Kings made all kinds of dumb moves, so perhaps your logic is that Sacto is really dumb.

Then the question is all that dreck and a likely late first rounder a worthy return for Melo? Perhaps, if the small increase in cap space this year and next is used smartly. But debatable.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 03:14:39 PM by Biz » Logged
Biz
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« Reply #128671 on: August 11, 2017, 03:27:17 PM »

Vescey claims Phil want to trade Porzingis for the right to draft Alonzo Ball.
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facilitatorn
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« Reply #128672 on: August 11, 2017, 03:36:01 PM »

The scenario is kind of interesting. Morey has to do the drumming up, securing and presenting of offers. Knicks brain trust gets to sit back and say yay or nay. Biggest factor is how much Houston ownership wants to have Melo with Harden and Paul along with if there is enthusiasm from the fan base. Morey is looking to include other teams so he can preserve his supporting cast. Looming over his efforts is the fact the Gordon + Ariza + change gets it done anytime the rockets pull the trigger. All the doing is in Morey's side till he produces a more attractive concrete offer. If Melo gets impatient and broadens the list it could lead to a bidding war which would only benefit us and put more pressure on Morey.

This would be a good situation for the Princeton Mafia to not fuck up.
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Aintitashaman
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« Reply #128673 on: August 11, 2017, 06:10:44 PM »

My understanding is that Sac has some room.

If so its pretty close.....

Not quite enough cap room, plus Houston is hard capped because they signed Tucker to the full MLE. This means Houston can't really take any more of note without giving up Ariza, Gordon or Capela, and they aren't doing that.

The simplest hypothetical deal with Sacto would look something like this:

Sacto gives Koufos (two years, 8.5 per), Temple (two years, 8.0 per)
Sacto gets Ryno

Houston gives Ryno, three of Taylor/Quarterman/Onaku/Long (I believe none are fully guaranteed), 2020 first rounder
Houston gets Melo

NY gets Koufos, Temple, the three non-guaranteed deals, 2020 first rounder
NY gives Melo

I don't see why Sacto takes on Ryno at that salary to play behind ZBo and Skal (with lottery picks Stein and Papagiannis at the 5). It doesn't make much sense. But the pre-Scott Perry Kings made all kinds of dumb moves, so perhaps your logic is that Sacto is really dumb.

Then the question is all that dreck and a likely late first rounder a worthy return for Melo? Perhaps, if the small increase in cap space this year and next is used smartly. But debatable.

I actually like Koufos.  And Houston's #1 in 2020 (two years after Clippers get their 2018 in the Paul trade) is better than a kick in the ass. 

But this deal is basically a load of fucking garbage, any way you slice it. 

Taking back useless contracts by useless players. 

I am opposed to helping Houston or bailing out Melo. 

Let him play his final year as a Knick and opt out next summer.  Then he can sign anywhere he wants. 

Alas, as with the Denver-New York Trade, Melo wants to have his cake and eat it, too. 

And no, if he opts out next summer, Houston wouldn't have much money to offer him. 

Tough titties. 

Discord on the Knicks in 2017-2018? 

A) I doubt it

B) What else is new

C) Team mates will welcome him back

D) City will welcome him back

E) This what a no-trade clause looks like Melo...there is no fucking deal. 

F) Just Houston's 2020?  How about Houston's 2020 & 2022. 

G) Yawn.
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« Reply #128674 on: August 11, 2017, 09:54:39 PM »

My understanding is that Sac has some room.

If so its pretty close.....

Not quite enough cap room, plus Houston is hard capped because they signed Tucker to the full MLE. This means Houston can't really take any more of note without giving up Ariza, Gordon or Capela, and they aren't doing that.

The simplest hypothetical deal with Sacto would look something like this:

Sacto gives Koufos (two years, 8.5 per), Temple (two years, 8.0 per)
Sacto gets Ryno

Houston gives Ryno, three of Taylor/Quarterman/Onaku/Long (I believe none are fully guaranteed), 2020 first rounder
Houston gets Melo

NY gets Koufos, Temple, the three non-guaranteed deals, 2020 first rounder
NY gives Melo

I don't see why Sacto takes on Ryno at that salary to play behind ZBo and Skal (with lottery picks Stein and Papagiannis at the 5). It doesn't make much sense. But the pre-Scott Perry Kings made all kinds of dumb moves, so perhaps your logic is that Sacto is really dumb.

Then the question is all that dreck and a likely late first rounder a worthy return for Melo? Perhaps, if the small increase in cap space this year and next is used smartly. But debatable.

Dude - you didnt follow closely

HOU was giving Gordon AND Anderson - 32 mil total

This is why I asked, "but does the deal make them better?"
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kidcarter8
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« Reply #128675 on: August 11, 2017, 10:03:25 PM »

So.........looking at some old articles....

Knicks could have had

Fox, Monk and Bender

instead of Njtlina and Porzngis

Kristaps had BETTER take that step forward to 20-10 - and THEN SOME

Passing on such a deal - this guy needs to make multiple All Star teams - and starting this season.  70+ games needs to be the minimum (I give the extreme big man 10-12% rest/soreness days as given)
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« Reply #128676 on: August 11, 2017, 10:06:52 PM »

Biz - your recent posts seem to scream that you have no fucking clue who Ryan Anderson is.
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Biz
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« Reply #128677 on: August 12, 2017, 01:42:02 AM »

Biz - your recent posts seem to scream that you have no fucking clue who Ryan Anderson is.

Line Donald Trump, you project.

Anyhow, I understand the salary cap. No team in the league is willing to take Ryan Anderson right now because of his salary, even if offered a first round pick. That's what you consistently ignore.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #128678 on: August 12, 2017, 02:11:58 AM »

Kristaps had BETTER take that step forward to 20-10 - and THEN SOME
I'm not terribly concerned about KZ's stats this year.
We will be a poor team with a teenage rook PG and one of the worst backcourts in the League.  KZ's #'s and efficiency will likely reflect that.
I guess big empty numbers on a cruddy team would be good for his confidence.
And if Melo is moved for a youngish guy and picks, KZ's numbers will go up as he'd be the main offense.

I hope KZ shows growth, is able to handle a bigger offensive role, able to post a bit more, takes good 3's (not rushed and not from a few feet behind the line), and sets up teammates more when he disrupts the D.  But I'm looking for his growth more on D.  Not to jump on guard pumpfakes, continued good help D down low, and more long-armed intimidating presence in the paint.  Also, more determination to grab every rebound.  So I'm looking for KZ to expand his overall game while showing some offensive growth.  

I hope KZ can develop some chemistry with Franc (& Sessions).  I'm glad Rose's solipsistic game is gone.  Jennings had a knack for getting the ball to KZ.  Hopefully we'll get a glimpse of KZ in some PnR's and such.  But it's all going to be a learning experience.

I'm very curious to see what tools Franc has and where he is in his hoops journey.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 02:18:59 AM by bodiddley » Logged
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« Reply #128679 on: August 12, 2017, 06:33:10 AM »

Got a straight up NY Houston Deal that works mathematically. Kid should like it cause it gets us Rino. I like it cause it gives us 2 players I like a lot more and shift JoNo to the Rockets to ballast us taking back Rino.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycl3raj3

We send Melo, Jo No, and Randle. We get a host of players, namely Ryan Anderson, Eric Gordon, Trevor Ariza, Isiah Taylor, Tim Quartermain, China Onauku, and Sean Long.

It's $45 mil for each team, give or take a few $100K. It works under trade rules.

The Rockets would have

Capella Nene Noah
Mah-a-Moute Black Zhou
Anthony Tucker Oliver
Harden Williams
Paul Brown Randle

If Mike D is down with a Melo reunion, I could see him signing off on this.

We'd keep 4. I'd take Taylor along with Ariza Gordon and Rino.

KP Willy O'Quinn
Anderson Beasley Thomas
Ariza  Hardaway Dotson
Gordon Lee Baker
Sessions Ntilikina Taylor

You still have Kornet and another 2 way deal to make.

How much do they want a big three in Houston? I hear Portland is sounding better and better to the man with the NTC.

---edit (again)---
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycc8og9e
It also works if you keep Randle in NY and Taylor in Houston, though maybe that's the sweetener Morey needs to swallow Noah. Mike D would like Randle a bunch I think. Maybe we send Randle, cut Taylor and keep Quatermain. It can be all worked out in camp.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 06:50:42 AM by facilitatorn » Logged

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« Reply #128680 on: August 12, 2017, 01:40:05 PM »

KP's numbers will be REASON why we do/do not contend for 7h/8th in the east.

But you have clearly dismissed him of any responsibility.  I am not surprised.

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« Reply #128681 on: August 12, 2017, 09:51:58 PM »

Sessions vows to crack down on leakers — and sends a warning to reporters

Ramon is really going to fit in at MSG.
Will be a Dolan favorite in no time.

Haha. Ramon is feeling himself and he's been here just 2 minutes.
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« Reply #128682 on: August 12, 2017, 10:17:12 PM »

Supposed to mentor Frank

He and Frank will be going at it tooth and nail for starting slot.
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bodiddley
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« Reply #128683 on: August 14, 2017, 02:17:46 AM »

I want to see development from KZ, but he's yet not at that stage where he can lead us to the playoffs.  And he's not to blame for us having the worst Guard corps, or a weak starting lineup.


The only way Der Knickers are contending for a playoff spot is if the East is atrocious and only has 6 teams above .500.


I really would need to look through rosters to be sure, but the East shakes out something like this:

Playoff East
:
CLE, BOS, WAS, TOR, MIL

6-8 Contenders:
DET, MIA, CHA

9-12 Losers:
PHI, ORL, NYK, IND

Bottom Dwellers:
ATL, BKY, CHI

I was more interested in levels than rank.
Knix finished 12th last year, 5 games out of 11th.
Only PHI & BKY had a worse Road record.

Just 31 W's last year . . .
Out: Rose & Holiday
In: Hardway & Francophile
A better direction but not better talent.
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Biz
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« Reply #128684 on: August 14, 2017, 10:13:29 AM »

I think Philly is almost at lower seed playoff contender level. I like them better than your "losers" section, if not quite as much as the 6-8 guys.

And I think if Melo gets traded for the likes of Ryan Anderson (stop yelling Chip, I'm not advocating for that, just trying to make a point) the Knicks could be as bad as Brooklyn.

Otherwise, I agree with your assessment.




Now the West is more intriguing. A fascinating playoff race awaits.

Class of their own
GS

Likely home courters
HOU, SA, OKC

Playoff bound
MIN, LAC

Playoff bubble
DEN, POR, MEM, UTAH, NO

Improved but not going to the playoffs
SAC, LAL

Studying film of Marvin Bagley
PHX, DAL


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