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Warriors

1 (33.3%)

Celtics

2 (66.7%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: June 13, 2022, 11:38:11 PM

[kiidcarter8]

I'd have preferred Booker to Vonleh, but not Mario.

Trevor is 6'8" and 30 years old.  We already have the 6'8" Hezonja. 

Havent seen much of Booker, have you?

My guess is he sought a 2-year deal

OK with me if this is why we passed - but he'd have made us better this year, no doubt.

[facilitatorn]

Booker is probably looking to be an available UFA next year when the cap jumps. If so, the money is better in China and he still has the chance to join a team in spring, possibly one on track for a playoff spot where injuries have opened up minutes for a versatile forward.

[chipstern]

Mario is a Sg-sf. He isn’t all that important.

Vonleh is a legit PF/ small ball C. If Fiz can get real growth out of Vonleh we have a much more competitive team than expected. Booker would have been good, but I think Vonleh moves the needle more.

Booker might indeed have been a more impactful player. 

However these are not the Knicks of Kidd, Camby, KT and Wallace.  We had a winning season and made it to the playoffs, where the wheels came off as the most significant person on the floor, Jason Kidd, finally exhausted his mojo. 

The idea, again, is not to milk another 5-7 short term wins out of our team, but to create a winning SUSTAINABLE culture, albeit with the knowledge that fielding such a tadpole team is going to lead to a goodly number of beatdowns in the short term, least ways until (and likely, thereafter) KP returns. 

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but what exactly are we debating here: BOOKER IS THIRTY YEARS OLD.  What's the point?  Booker brings nothing to this team that we do not already have, especially with a capable role player in Lance Thomas, who is also 30, also 6'8", albeit with a bigger body, and--IRONICALLY--a genuine threat from three-point range, significantly better than from 2-point range.  Booker brings nothing in that regard. 

2015-2016: .404%

2016-2017: .447%

2017-2018: .403%

I will be very curious to see how Mario responds to Fizdale's system.  Perry was obviously very invested in the kid. 

He is a very skilled player.  However, he is certainly not a complete player on the defensive end, and I too wonder how he would match up with real NBA power-forwards.  I'm not seeing it. 

Fizz is milking that position-less cow. 

We shall see. 

[chipstern]

One of Biz's favorite players, PF-C Greg Monroe, signed on with the Raptors for the Vet's Minimum.

How the mighty have fallen.  Might actually be a good landing spot for Monroe.

[kiidcarter8]

Thomas isnt Booker

This guy is a bull.  More like a less talented Kanter with a mean streak.

[facilitatorn]

I think Vonleh and Mitchell will provide all the Bookerness we need. I agree that Lance has a much different style and role.

[kiidcarter8]

Robinson's playing G League

[bodiddley]

Agree with Chip.
I was interested in Trev Book when he was with UTA.  He is a bull.
Good role player.  A Quincy Acy type.

I keep going back to the KZ injury.
If KZ was healthy Booker and his vet beef might help the bench, bring toughness we lost with KOQ's departure, make hustle plays.

As it is, wins are not important next year.
Lance can fill in at PF.  Kornet too.  Knox some.  Hezonja can be tried,
There are options and KZ will return.

Perry Fizz have decided to go all in on dumpster diving trying to see if any young players who have been cast off can actually play this game.  Trey Burke looks like a legit backup PG.  Though we'll see if he can keep up his torrid pace on horrid mid-rangers.

I'm concerned we have too many reclamation projects (Burke, Mud, Zonja, Vonleh) combined with the uncertainty of Noah and the inconsistency of draftees (Frank & Knoxville & Robinson).
It's good to have some steady performers.

Courtly for one.  Kanter too, I guess.

[bodiddley]

As for Tim Jr., I hope he looks at this as more a team and doesn't think this is his chance to be The Man, the #1 Option and go to it.  Because I don't think he can handle that at all.
He probably should shoot more, but needs to work within the system and not be greedy.

As for that earlier stuff.
I was pointing out that I didn't say FT % for Tim.  I said FT rate and FG %.  That's largely what I was thinking of when I mentioned efficiency.

I wasn't thinking of PER.
Also: +/-.  Shot selection. Turnovers and steals.
Can add assists and rebounds, which do factor into PER.

My discourse on PER was in general terms.  I'm not judging Tim on defensive rotations or cutting (though that would be nice).
I do judge him on defending his man, dealing with screens, getting burned backdoor when inattentive.

I won't be too hard on Tim Jr because he will be in the wrong role for the first half of the season, on a very hastily patched together team which will likely have minimal chemistry and a new system to learn. 

It would also be nice to see how young vet Hardaway plays if he had a genuine starting quality PG next to him.  I know he likes Burke and they know each other, but Burke is a scorer and weak defender.

[facilitatorn]

I think Tim will stick around as an improving then reliable vet. His contract makes him hella hard to move and though his production and productiveness will improve, his next deal won’t be as large as his current one.

It’s going to be easier to get Mitchell minutes at the 4 than the 5 this year and probably next year as well because he’s a very skinny kid. He moves well enough to cover power forwards and still provide weakside defebsive help.

Glad Frank is getting some National team ball in prior to the season

[bodiddley]

I think Tim is overpaid, but don't think he'd be too hard to move.  There are about 10 good SG's and then a drop off to many guys who are okay and/or have significant question marks (KCP, A Very, Lou Williams, LaVine, Barton, Smart, Reke, Waiters, Fournier).  Tim slips right among them.

LaVine 4/ $19.5M per
Fournier 3/ $17M per
Smart  4/ $52M ($13M ave)
Barton 4/ $54M ($13.5M ave)
Waiters 3/ $40M ($13M ave)
Reke, KCP & Bradley all signed 1 year $12M contracts hoping to cash in next year.

The newer contracts tend to be a little lower as the market has tightened.  Contracts from before, like Tim's and Fournier's, are a little pricier.  So probably Tim should be priced around $14M instead of his $18M ave.  can't say I like anyone on that list more than Tim, except maybe KCP.  And A Very if he is healthy and can get back to form.  But I like defenders with some offensive chops more than offenders with limited D.

One thing is that not that many teams need an SG, unlike previous years.  So that makes Tim  a bit harder to move.  Lot of SG young blood has arrived (Mitchell, Booker, Jaylen, Harris).  BUT NYK doesn't have a big need to move Tim anyway.  Likely to wait another year and see how/if he develops.

Here's a Hoopshype article ranking the Top 30 SG's
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/06/nba-projections-top-30-shooting-guards-klay-thompson-james-harden/
They don't mention Courtly or Hardaway.  But one of them is our starting SG.

[thebizneverloses]

One of Biz's favorite players, PF-C Greg Monroe, signed on with the Raptors for the Vet's Minimum.

How the mighty have fallen.  Might actually be a good landing spot for Monroe.

We've been through this before. I was the one who was adamant we don't sign Monroe. Nagel was the one loved the idea of signing him.

Last I really advocated for Monroe was when he came out of college.

Incidentally, while he was the most talented big left on the market, I think it was curious that Toronto signed him. I thought Bebe was a better fit, although Monroe is definitely cheap insurance should JV get hurt.

[thebizneverloses]

I think Vonleh and Mitchell will provide all the Bookerness we need. I agree that Lance has a much different style and role.

I wanted Booker as much for the off-court stuff as on-court production. Too many kids, even in a rebuilding year, isn't ideal. Would have preferred one more grown up.

[bodiddley]

Really for vet presence and toughness, I would have liked to have kept KOQ, who signed with IND for 1/$4.5M (Ron Baker money!).

If we move Courtly (if there is a market for him), we'd be down to role player Lance as a vet; disgruntled Noah as another.
Kanter and Tim as 26 year old young vets.
Maybe we need Courtly's voice.  Seems he was more vocal last year.

We have an awful lot of yute and reclamation projects who could use structure and vet guidance.  Sometimes just understanding the right approach -- mental/physical preparation -- can help a young player improve.  Seems we're leaving a lot of this on Fizz and his staff, without much lockerroom support.

[kiidcarter8]

I think Tim is overpaid, but don't think he'd be too hard to move.  There are about 10 good SG's and then a drop off to many guys who are okay and/or have significant question marks (KCP, A Very, Lou Williams, LaVine, Barton, Smart, Reke, Waiters, Fournier).  Tim slips right among them.

LaVine 4/ $19.5M per
Fournier 3/ $17M per
Smart  4/ $52M ($13M ave)
Barton 4/ $54M ($13.5M ave)
Waiters 3/ $40M ($13M ave)
Reke, KCP & Bradley all signed 1 year $12M contracts hoping to cash in next year.

The newer contracts tend to be a little lower as the market has tightened.  Contracts from before, like Tim's and Fournier's, are a little pricier.  So probably Tim should be priced around $14M instead of his $18M ave.  can't say I like anyone on that list more than Tim, except maybe KCP.  And A Very if he is healthy and can get back to form.  But I like defenders with some offensive chops more than offenders with limited D.

One thing is that not that many teams need an SG, unlike previous years.  So that makes Tim  a bit harder to move.  Lot of SG young blood has arrived (Mitchell, Booker, Jaylen, Harris).  BUT NYK doesn't have a big need to move Tim anyway.  Likely to wait another year and see how/if he develops.

Here's a Hoopshype article ranking the Top 30 SG's
https://hoopshype.com/2018/08/06/nba-projections-top-30-shooting-guards-klay-thompson-james-harden/
They don't mention Courtly or Hardaway.  But one of them is our starting PG.

No Knicks PG in their top 30 either

Nets have TWO - and Ball is #16, ahead of Smith and a few other good ones.